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The (X) Hamster Files - The Jersey Devil (featuring agent Jack Coyer) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:24
Hello, Assistant Director Joe Ford of the FBI here.
0:29
Now, I have many agents at my disposal.
0:33
Agent Joan Morris, Agent Nathan Bottomley, Agent Ian Martin,
0:37
agent for the quirkier cases, Fraser Gregory.
0:42
But occasionally, you know, I need to send in a young man to,
0:49
to inveigle his way into, you know, the school or yeah,
0:54
college or university or something like that.
0:57
And for those cases. One of the youngest.
1:01
Contributors to A Hamster with a Blood penknife Mister Jack
1:05
Coyer. Agent Coyer.
1:07
Hello. Hello, I am Fox Mulder.
1:11
I'm a crazy person and no one should listen to me.
1:15
What's the latest investigation you've been a part of, may I
1:18
ask? Well, I was wondering off of
1:20
some homeless naked people in the woods, and then I did
1:28
something that you're very familiar to, Joe.
1:31
I gave my hotel room key to a man I just met.
1:34
A mystery. He only wanted to watch HBO
1:38
though. Well, yes.
1:39
HBO Yeah. No HBJ.
1:45
Good grief. Hello, Jack.
1:47
Hello, Jack. Now listen here.
1:49
Now, why on earth have you agreed to take part in this
1:53
insane endeavour? Well, so obviously to those of
1:58
you who don't know, most of the people who come on this show
2:01
have presumably heard of and watched the popular 90s
2:06
television show The X-Files. Not everyone that I was born
2:13
during the run of The X-Files. You're joking.
2:18
Somewhere around season 3 I think, or 4.
2:23
Vintage Jew Jack Not just for vintage Jews for The X-Files,
2:26
but for births as well. For births as well, it's plenty
2:30
of stimulating their content. And so I've decided to just join
2:36
in like the rest of you on this journey.
2:39
And as of roughly 90 minutes ago, I finished watching episode
2:46
5 of The X-Files. The Jersey crazy homeless
2:51
person. The woman in a bad wig.
2:55
Yeah, the woman behind the diamond in Mulholland Dr. The
3:01
Movie. I, I, I had a couple of reasons
3:04
why I was really keen for you to be involved.
3:07
One is because your previous contributions to Hamster have
3:12
been fabulous and you always bring a unique opinion to
3:16
Hamster whenever you come. You are a very spark cookie.
3:21
And I think there's stuff not unfortunately in this episode,
3:25
but as the run goes on and the Ryan gets a bit more
3:28
sophisticated, there is some really interesting stuff to
3:32
unpick. And I think you've got that sort
3:34
of brain to unpick all of this. Yeah, and I'm sure I can add
3:38
plenty of outsiders opinion because obviously some of the
3:42
most interesting and popular episodes or obviously this is on
3:49
the Hamster with a Blank Pen Knife podcast feed.
3:53
Obviously, I'm assuming that most viewers are familiar with
3:56
the science fiction television series Doctor Who.
4:00
A lot of those episodes are sometimes the most interesting
4:04
where you have new people on, you know, people who aren't die
4:08
hard fans and they can talk about elements of the show.
4:11
But as as big fans. I, I, I thought not really
4:15
considered before because it's been so long since I was
4:18
watching fresh. And I thought, what a great
4:21
chance to, you know, every time I listen to one of those
4:27
episodes and I think what, what made that fall come up with that
4:31
idea? I thought, what a great chance
4:33
to replicate that experience and have people say, why do you say
4:37
that about our beloved Damon Scully?
4:42
That's the other reason. Well, though the other two
4:44
reasons, you just name them both there in that grandiose moment
4:48
there one is. You have no prior knowledge, and
4:51
that's a really interesting thing because you have no
4:53
expectations about the individual episodes.
4:56
And I want to give you all manner of of absolute classics
5:00
and total duds as we go on the run to see if you agree or
5:04
disagree with the consensus. And two is you're such a snarky
5:09
bitch while the episodes would be so fabulously funny.
5:14
Well I mean you say I had no prior misconceptions.
5:19
You have done the previous 4 episodes as recordings.
5:23
Have you heard those? Yeah, of The X-Files.
5:26
I've listened to the previous four and obviously watch those
5:29
episodes. In three of those four
5:32
recordings, you bashed the Jersey Devil, including one
5:37
where you said you wished it never existed.
5:41
That did kind of give me a slight hint as to what direction
5:45
this episode would be going in. Can I?
5:47
Surprise you then. Yeah.
5:50
Because I watched the Jersey Devil this morning and I didn't
5:54
altogether hate it. I was quite surprised.
5:58
Now don't get me wrong, I think it is a Turkey in many ways.
6:02
But there was stuff in there which I thought was done better
6:08
than any of the episodes that I've watched previous, and I
6:11
didn't expect that. I think for me it's probably my
6:16
least favorite the five so far because I think the first four
6:20
are pretty decent. I think there's some baffling
6:24
decisions that are taken with the episode the whole and it's
6:29
the only one at the five, but I've not actually, I'm telling
6:33
you, I've not even got to episode 6 yet.
6:36
But I can only assume by the time we get to episode 6, the
6:40
events of this episode will probably be long forgotten.
6:43
Forgotten well, but hopefully the production team will go in
6:47
sort of yeah, we'll forget that as well.
6:48
You. Know yes, I've received one like
6:53
piece of the films with one of my own work for a particular
6:57
monster of the week or in this case, is it a monster I don't
7:02
know they you know behave sort of setting that stall out and to
7:10
to varying results. I've got a question for you.
7:15
Yeah. Is this cryptozoology?
7:20
Oh God, I don't know enough about anthropology and might say
7:25
cryptosology to be able to comment.
7:29
Although I think you could argue that Chris Carter maybe doesn't
7:31
either. So I obviously the Jersey Devil
7:37
is sort of building off of the idea of quick tips and monsters
7:44
that sort of vaguely, what's the word uncanny and sort of human
7:50
esque. Obviously the only issue being
7:53
that it's not really about what the Jersey Devil appears to be
7:59
in folklore. It's just like, hey, you know,
8:03
this episode should be called vaguely reminiscent of the
8:07
Jersey Devil, you know? And that would sort of sum up
8:10
most of the characters attitudes towards the creature that's in
8:16
this episode. My immediate fault is why is the
8:22
FBI even bothering with this? My even molder, But yeah.
8:27
That that I think is actually, I made a note that like before
8:33
this, there was generally like personal stakes for Molder.
8:36
Yeah, In Episode 1 and Episode 4, there are personal states
8:40
he's looking for his sister. In episode 2, he's pulled in by
8:44
the Deep Throat character. And in episode 3, Scully is
8:48
pulled in by somebody from her past to to investigate Mr.
8:54
Toombs. Yeah.
8:55
So there's always a good reason as to why they're involved.
8:58
Now this is the first time where we say Oh no, any old.
9:02
Bullshit. Rumours.
9:03
This is like I've been reading a newspaper.
9:06
Yeah, it's got a funny looking lady in it, so let's do that.
9:10
Yes, it's. Like the worst bitch I get if it
9:13
was me, if I was Moldo, right? And I'd come down and you know
9:16
when. He talks.
9:17
To that homeless man on the streets and he pulls out that
9:20
really bad drawing. And he said this picture has
9:26
gone into official police reports.
9:29
I I just like to imagine at the end of that episode Scully draw
9:35
in that picture and just like. What has happened to my career?
9:42
She's thinking. Oh.
9:43
My God. But there's definitely a shift.
9:47
There's definitely a shift from Mulder being somebody that's on
9:51
a mission to a sniff of anything slightly odd.
9:56
And he's there, You know, like, how the hell did he sign off the
10:00
expenses to get out of this place?
10:03
Yeah, I'm gonna, I mean the hotel them that I'm not even
10:06
going to be used. That's just going to be a
10:08
negotiating tactic. Oh, great.
10:11
What witness have you got? Oh, I don't know, just some guy
10:15
got a picture out of Mad magazine, but like kind of looks
10:19
like a person. But don't worry, I've got this
10:23
other picture of a a a Bigfoot with a crack himself tits.
10:29
So you know, that's that's good. That's evidence.
10:33
Lovely dirty ass my ass. Like like.
10:36
We'll see her bum a couple of times as she's running through
10:39
the woods. Yeah.
10:42
So, you know, that's, that's one form of police work, I suppose.
10:48
Now one of the things that I think The X-Files always tends
10:53
to get right is the pre title sequence right setting up the
10:56
horror of the week. I I think I don't know if you
10:59
would agree but like the first 4 episodes I think they they all
11:02
do a great especially the tombs episode with the man who's being
11:05
hunted in the office and I didn't think it was too bad
11:10
here. No, it's just standard, isn't
11:13
it? Like, you know, family off in
11:16
the woods, here's a monster and. The man gets dragged off,
11:24
doesn't it? And she's there.
11:25
But what confused me was that obviously it cuts straight to
11:29
the police hunting in the pre title sequence.
11:33
And then they tracked down the Jersey Devil they're shooting
11:35
away in The Cave. And I was like, well, we don't
11:37
need Moldrin and Scully. They've done it all.
11:39
Yeah, there's, there's no point. I mean, obviously we literally
11:43
don't need Scully, as we can see by the fact that she's, you
11:46
know, off doing other bits and might doesn't do anything.
11:50
Even when she turns up, she doesn't really do anything, I
11:53
don't think. I think the only thing Scully
11:56
does in this episode to actively, proactively help the
12:00
episode is pay Molder's bail. I think that might be it, the
12:05
only thing that she actually does.
12:07
What does he say? You're in the drunk tank molder.
12:11
Yeah. And and that might and you could
12:13
probably cut it out the rest of the thing all together.
12:16
And then they say Molder is just messing around.
12:22
I mean, this is the sort of thing where you kind of go, why
12:28
haven't they fired Molder at this point?
12:30
We just seem to be deliberately flousing any authority figures
12:34
in this, doesn't it? Yeah.
12:36
And this, the thing I was thinking when I was watching it
12:40
is this feels like it could have been in series, like I've known
12:46
3 or 4 or something. This once we get to know them
12:50
properly, this could be like a prequel episode like this could
12:54
have been the turning point that made everyone call him Stoopy
12:59
Mulder. Mulder could have just been some
13:03
guy coming up to the Academy or like a fairly well respected
13:07
person. He's he's looking for anything
13:11
to cling on to because of this man for stuff.
13:13
And you know, he's becoming more isolated from his Co workers.
13:17
And then this is the incident that makes him Spooky Mulder
13:21
because he's running around in New Jersey hunting some naked
13:25
woman who he thinks is Neanderthal for some reason.
13:31
And then we have the dating bit with Scully and we have her mic
13:36
come into the FBI mic format maybe.
13:40
Oh that works as well. My God, why won't you scripted
13:43
sing the X? Files exactly and.
13:45
You weren't born yet. That's.
13:46
Why No, not quite. But the thing that also struck
13:51
me with the Scully stuff is that this feels like material that
13:56
was maybe cut out of a pilot, because obviously the pilot is
14:00
roughly the length of the usual episode.
14:03
With Mel days. If you make a pilot of ATV show
14:06
like this, it'll be half hour longer than a normal episode.
14:10
And I was just sat there thinking, this feels like pilot
14:14
material. But did.
14:15
You hear the trivia about the pilot where she was supposed to
14:18
have a boyfriend, so they. Said two things.
14:20
Oh, right. And she was supposed to have a
14:22
boyfriend, and they were. That was cut out of the pilot.
14:25
Yeah. And this just feels like that.
14:26
Obviously the fact this went by Chris Carter as well makes you
14:30
think that, oh, maybe it's, you know, maybe this is something
14:35
that you'd have in the back of his mind of.
14:36
Here's how we put that subplot in without even needing to take
14:42
up space in the pilot, which is fairly.
14:45
But here's what we're going to have in the show it.
14:49
Could be a commentary on the quality of the main plot though.
14:53
That every time I kept skipping back to Scully's domestic life,
14:57
I was breathing a sigh of relief and going, Oh my God.
15:00
Here's something I can actually get on board with because we you
15:04
don't get a lot of this. I'll, I'll say that upfront.
15:06
You don't get a lot of domestic stuff in the Exiles.
15:08
Like family members come in and out and stuff like that, but not
15:12
the way it's presented here where she just goes off to a
15:15
kids party where a God's son is and then goes on a date.
15:20
Like that just doesn't happen. Like The X-Files can be soapy,
15:24
but in a, you know, family members die and things like that
15:27
sort of a way rather than a you're going to watch the the
15:31
parallel lives between their professional and personal lives.
15:34
They don't really do that very much.
15:36
So this does feel really weird, but kind of refreshing.
15:39
I quite liked it. Yeah, I liked it.
15:42
It just amused me. But it was like we we've got no
15:47
reason why anyone why anyone should believe Mulder.
15:54
And like if Scully takes 1 whiff of this, she'll immediately pull
15:59
bullshit on it. So it kind of need to just move
16:01
her lap away so that she doesn't like immediately go bullshit on
16:06
it. I like the fact that she's like,
16:08
oh, oh, yeah. Molda, I would love to, you
16:11
know, run around the woods with you chasing that woman.
16:13
But I've got a day to get to. I'm so sorry.
16:17
Doesn't he say she goes through at one point?
16:19
Hang on, Molda, you know, you need to get a life.
16:22
And he goes, I've got a life. No, you don't.
16:26
But yeah, and then obviously the F2 ends with her making that
16:31
decision out to me. I'm quite enjoying this crazy
16:34
high gents. And so I'm going to go off and
16:37
do that with him, which again, might be might have been like a
16:40
nice framing device if this were the sort of prequel, you know,
16:48
the origin of spooky Molder. You know, like I said, which is
16:51
why you could put this in series.
16:53
I've met 3 or 4 once we get to know these people and we can go,
16:57
hey, here's why you know. So funny, it's like you have
17:00
watched Ahead 'cause there is an episode in series 5 called The
17:03
Unusual Suspects which then goes back to pre the start of The
17:07
X-Files and explains. How Mulder gets to The X-Files.
17:13
So they do eventually do that. I mean, Jesus Christ, Jack, it's
17:15
a run of nine seasons with 24 episodes of season.
17:18
They pretty much do everything. Oh yeah, I could probably make
17:21
thumb it up and you'll be like yeah, they.
17:23
Did that, yeah. Yeah.
17:26
I don't know. Yeah, but it is quite early to
17:29
do the oh, will Scully choose Mulder over sort of another
17:34
romantic interest Because the will they won't they thing it is
17:39
definitely there going forwards. But I did quite like it.
17:43
I like quite like the fact because in the first four she is
17:47
quite sort of you know, I'll mold her, stop chasing after
17:50
your sister. I'll mold her, stop doing this.
17:52
And then here she sort of goes. You're right.
17:54
Yeah, I've got do you know what? Actually, I'm going to come with
17:57
you. This is This is.
17:59
Quite a laugh. But the question that I sort of
18:02
find myself asking myself is maybe I need a little bit more
18:07
as to why Kelly enjoys this, which is why maybe you want a
18:11
little bit 20 minutes or so tacked onto the pilot to sort,
18:16
assert, you know, oh, yes, they are being possibly abducted by
18:21
Amiens and maybe, you know, shot at every so often and chasing
18:26
serial killers and so on. But this form of work being, you
18:32
know, stuck in the basement as one of the the FBI's most
18:36
unwanted, as he says, is fun because you're spending time
18:42
with Mulder or you're, you know, you, you, you want to believe,
18:48
even though you don't have a lot of evidence, you know, you're
18:51
coming me back. It's a little bit on there I
18:54
think. I mean, I was watching the
18:55
scenes, you know, when he was in the being interrogated.
18:58
Yeah. And he sort of his ties all
19:00
Askew and he looks so fucking hot.
19:02
And then I was like, oh, that's why she wants to hang around
19:05
with him in the basement, because David.
19:07
The company is really pretty. I mean, I know that's not a
19:10
character rationale, but it's just for me, it's a rationale.
19:14
Yeah, I think that would it's been interesting to, you know,
19:19
obviously one of the things that some of your competitors have
19:22
brought up is signs of Lambs, which I saw an interview
19:27
recently with Jimmy Anderson about her sort of cultural
19:31
experiences and how they've shaped her.
19:34
And one of the things she mentioned in there when they did
19:37
their little mandated brief chat about the ex files is that she
19:43
did favour Jodie Foster, Clary Starling of him as a big way of
19:50
emailing how to play this. And I thought back to the pilot
19:54
and just thought, well, you could reframe the pilot as,
19:59
because obviously Jonathan Demi, the director of the Science of
20:02
the Lambs, does a lot of his POV, you know, framing as a
20:08
stylistic thematic choice to show.
20:11
How the FBI is of objectifying police and all the Jack Wilford
20:17
and his memory that different from the sort of Buffalo Bills
20:20
of the world. And that's all in the visual
20:23
presentation of that story. And I thought like the pilot
20:27
could kind of do that with Scully.
20:30
Bug Scully is being sent to deal with Molder because maybe some
20:35
of the higher ups think we can use Scully to sort of tempt
20:41
Molder away from this line at work or whatever.
20:45
And then you wait to see Molder. You you bet if it were me, you
20:50
would barely see Molder in the pilot because you would wait,
20:53
wait, wait. And you think, who the hell is
20:55
this molded guy that she's this crazy guy, but everyone hates
20:59
that she's being forced to work with.
21:01
And then you haven't turned around and it's 1993, David told
21:06
me. And you go, oh, this is the
21:09
crazy guy in the. Place.
21:11
And then you learn more about him, and then you go, oh, OK,
21:15
then he's a bit weirdo. So yeah, that's the direction
21:18
that maybe earlier episodes could have taken.
21:21
But yeah, obviously in this episode, it's not this episode's
21:24
fault specifically, but it is one thing that leaves you
21:28
scratching your head a little bit.
21:29
Well. Another thing that left me
21:31
scratching my head, Jack, was the fact that, you know, in this
21:33
episode, he's presented as somebody that looks at porn
21:38
magazines lavitiously and gets put away in the drunk tank when,
21:43
you know, defying authority figures and chases crazy old
21:48
Neanderthal ladies through the woods.
21:51
And this is the episode where they choose to have Scully go,
21:53
oh, do you know what? I really want to hang out with
21:56
you. You know, it's, it's a very odd
21:59
choice. When you were sort of when we
22:03
were having earnest discussions about your complete family life
22:08
or when you, you know, saved me from that serial cream or
22:12
whatever. Melbourne, you going crazy
22:16
pretending to be homeless and hunting down hairy people in the
22:22
woods. That's that's it.
22:25
This does. Now this features two of my
22:29
least favorite X-Files cliches in it, and you will see plenty
22:33
of these things, right? 1 is the man that that they find
22:38
in the story or a man or woman that just delivers loads of
22:42
exposition about how the. Monster is the theme of this
22:46
week, yeah. We add the you haven't seen it
22:50
yet, but there's a a wonderful one in the next episode where
22:53
there is a grave digger who just knows everything about.
22:57
The person that. He's buried.
22:59
I mean, this one, it's obviously it's the tramp who knew the man
23:02
who was drawing the Jersey Devil.
23:06
Just terrible. But the other thing is the
23:08
intransigent person in charge of the investigation.
23:13
That what doesn't want Mulder and Scully.
23:15
Involved at all, you know, and that this happens time and time
23:19
again in The X-Files. And then they're going, well,
23:22
look, we're the FBI and it's usually, you know, the local
23:25
Police Department. Yeah, I can't remember the
23:27
fellas naming this, but man oh man, it's such a thankless.
23:31
Role. All he does is walk in, scowl
23:33
and go, oh, it's Moulder here again.
23:36
Yeah, we don't need the FBI. It's just a person who's ripping
23:42
open doors and, you know, scaring people in the woods.
23:46
I don't think we need the FBI to get involved with the.
23:49
Fact. It's not unreasonable what he's
23:51
saying, but the actor is so just so Moody that you just don't
23:57
like him anyway, you know? Yeah, I suppose it's just that,
24:01
a role. But like you say, it's going to
24:03
come up again and again. But he's only doing it for one
24:08
episode, I suppose. You know that that's your
24:11
stereotype and you've got, you know, 10 pages worth of script
24:16
to be reading. You know that's.
24:20
The other thing I mean the thing that made me laugh the most in
24:23
this episode was the the half hearted way that they car goes
24:30
about examining the Jersey Devil.
24:32
I mean I don't examining is a strong word.
24:35
Does she feel emotion or are her days spent just looking for
24:40
food? Yeah, then shopping.
24:45
Maybe she's just go shopping it. Doesn't mold to say at one point
24:50
sometimes I think we're not too far out of Africa.
24:53
And I was like, please no. Chris No.
24:56
Maybe we just like them. God, I was like please, that is
25:03
potentially the most racist line you've ever made in the next
25:06
final episode. And then he repeats it at the
25:09
end for the gag, doesn't he? Yeah, about holding the door.
25:13
I mean, it's a, it's a good response from Scully, I think.
25:16
Look who's holding the door as she opens the door for her.
25:19
I thought that was quite good. But like, they don't really.
25:23
They don't examine the implications if this thing does
25:26
turn out to be the Jersey Devil, you know, they don't really.
25:31
We never get to talk. To the jersey devil or or ignore
25:35
psychoanalyze it in any way so we don't really get any insight
25:38
into what. She is and what she's up to.
25:42
We just make, they just make assumptions.
25:43
No, she's hunting. She's a wild beast, you know?
25:47
Yeah, but she there's no, there's not even as far as I can
25:51
remember any evidence that this isn't as human apart from the
25:56
fact she's eaten human bones. I mean, I kind of assume that
26:04
all that and and she's, you know, ripped Lord holes in doors
26:11
and things. Well, humans can do that
26:14
obviously, as as we see at the end, the little Meanderthal baby
26:18
creature. Well, you know, human mothers
26:21
are perfectly capable of you know, you hear stories about
26:24
them lifting cars up and things like that with with adrenaline.
26:29
You know, it just feels like this is an entire episode of the
26:33
Exposed. It's just what if a human being
26:36
was pumped full of adrenaline, which was and was very hairy?
26:40
And it is a human being, right? They don't even they suggest
26:43
it's a Neanderthal, but they don't do like the the heavy
26:47
brows. They don't want to make her ugly
26:49
do. They no, no, it's a starter
26:51
thing, isn't it? Like here's a hair, you know,
26:55
she's got a human bra or whatever, you know, therefore
26:58
she's a weird aiming. And there's one bit where
27:02
they're in the warehouse before the chase starts near the end.
27:07
And as Molda goes, oh, Scully, she was female.
27:13
She was beautiful. And they're like Molda.
27:16
We're we're shrouded in darkness in a warehouse.
27:19
Like you can't even you, we can't see what she looks like.
27:26
What are you talking about? If I was Scully, I'd be like,
27:29
you think that's beautiful? I mean, I'm just here, OK.
27:33
Jesus Christ. Well, Jack, what did you think
27:37
of the? The specialist anthropologist
27:42
who turns up? Sort of.
27:43
He's a bit of a hippie, isn't he?
27:45
With long hair and glasses. And yeah, that was great.
27:47
He's he's what I think molder like could could be.
27:53
We left him in the dark for too long.
27:55
And, you know, he's great in the sense of, oh, what's the theme
28:01
of the theme this week? I was hands apology.
28:04
OK, we'll get a guy who said, you know, I assume in later
28:07
episodes they'll be like, this is a biological hazard.
28:11
So he's a biology person? Oh, there's so many experts.
28:15
To all them. So he's a spiritual shaman or
28:19
something? Like that.
28:20
Oh, not like this. Year, you know we're.
28:22
Going to see a shaman later this year.
28:25
And I assume there'll be people from different cultures and all
28:28
that. Sort of, yes.
28:30
Well, yeah, I mean, their hit rate of doing that is actually
28:33
pretty good, but every now and again it's terribly offensive.
28:37
Yeah. So I assume that this is a
28:40
pattern that's going to keep me curling, but it's quite funny to
28:44
see it as I think it's kind of the first time it happens.
28:49
It's just like a hey everyone at home.
28:52
Here's why I'm apologies, and here's why this might be a
28:57
monster, but probably not. But maybe.
29:02
Did you see? His dialogue though.
29:04
His dialogue. Yeah.
29:06
You know when you start a sentence, We humans have
29:09
retained hereditary traits through evolution that have
29:12
proven to be extremely disruptive.
29:16
I mean, when you start with we humans, you're in trouble.
29:19
Yeah, my my favorite line was when we went in the introduction
29:25
of some alien life form. We will live out our days to
29:28
rule the world. How about boring?
29:33
Did you hear that? I had one at home.
29:34
Boring being production of some alien life forms.
29:38
Are we going to get that throughout the series?
29:41
The good thing this is The X-Files because.
29:43
If. Anyone else suggested that in
29:45
any other show but they'd go? What is he talking about?
29:48
Boring aliens. It's just like, hey, if this, as
29:51
long as this thing doesn't happen more, be all right, you
29:54
know, be back on the Supramos. If they said, you know, boring
29:58
us, having a year long mafia gang wars and all backstabbing
30:04
each other, I think we're going to be OK.
30:07
Well, let's hope that doesn't happen on the next episode of
30:10
The Sopranos, you know? The closest thing I could find
30:14
to a theme in this episode, yeah, was that Carter seemed to
30:18
be suggesting that it's a comment on sort of man's
30:22
destructive nature. Yeah, but it's so unsubtle
30:25
because that manifests with a savage woman out in the woods
30:30
and men taking potshots. I mean, it's so unsubtle.
30:34
Yes, it's like, hey, here's and I guess the thing that confuses
30:39
me a little bit is so this is the fifth script.
30:43
It's by the showman creator, so I can only assume that he's
30:49
still full of ideas at this point.
30:52
Bear me in mind. We're on episode 5.
30:55
This is like the first fully solo monster of the week because
31:01
I know we've had the serial killer one, but that was again,
31:05
is it an alien? And it's also kind of connected
31:11
to Molders molders character arc a little bit more.
31:16
So this is like the first on its own episode that you could just
31:20
watch on its own from the showrunner and they're like,
31:26
this feels quite empty. Do you still like?
31:29
I feel like you should be more full of ideas at this point.
31:33
What's interesting is when the show is picked up for season 2
31:37
and it it almost wasn't. It was almost cancelled.
31:41
When it's picked up for two. It does feel like Chris Carter
31:44
then is ready to jump in with like every great idea he's ever
31:48
had. And suddenly it really rolls to
31:51
is when it got really popular and and the the big ideas start
31:55
to flourish here. It's almost like tentatively
31:57
saying, well, let's try a serial killer, let's try an ancient
32:01
myth. Let's try, you know, something
32:04
super a ghost. Let's try an evil building.
32:08
And, you know, and so they try all the cliches and some things
32:12
fall away because they don't really do.
32:14
And much of this again, of like, you know, the Bigfoot sort of
32:18
idea. Yeah, and I'm happy to have an
32:21
episode where it's just the villain is just a person, you
32:26
know, because I think I, I don't know if this is coming later on,
32:31
but I think that'll be a really interesting, if you think not,
32:35
not to try and link everything back to Doctor Who, but if you
32:39
think of an episode like listen, where the whole thing is, maybe
32:43
there's a monster or maybe not. Regardless of what you think
32:47
about that period of Michelle or that episode itself, that
32:51
episode has a lot to say about the Doctor, Clara, Danny B's
32:56
relationships. And in a way, it's not about the
33:00
monster or rack thereof. It's about how this effects all
33:05
the relationships was amiss. OK, But the, the, the trick is
33:11
there is no monster probably, and it's probably just a crazy
33:14
person about Scully, about the nature of The X-Files.
33:19
Is there any point even making these X-Files, as in the the
33:25
cases themselves, not the shell? Is there any point in continuing
33:31
The X-Files programme when we're just going to get stuff like
33:35
this? You know, I think those would be
33:36
really interesting Ave. you know, this episode and the the
33:42
crazy wild Chris Chase, the mold that goes on.
33:46
That should have an impact. You know, this should be a crazy
33:50
wild goose chase that has ramifications down down the
33:54
line, but it now. I'm going to make a suggestion.
33:57
You know that you've made a slightly unfair comparison there
34:01
because even though listen is also a writer stroke
34:05
showrunners. 4th episode of a season.
34:08
Fifth episode of a season that's.
34:12
Sort of four. Years into Steven Moffett
34:15
writing for Doctor Who at that point and it's a well oiled
34:18
machine and he knows what he's doing and I so of course he's
34:21
he's informing the characters as now Carter's you know what this
34:24
is his second script for The X-Files.
34:27
You skip forward to that same point where listen is in season
34:31
4 of The X-Files. I would suggest sometimes the
34:35
monsters themselves are a little less exciting because they've
34:40
tried a lot by that point, but they absolutely get into the
34:43
groove of informing the characters by that point.
34:48
So they do get there. They do get there, and I think
34:51
it's maybe a little unfair to suggest at this point that they
34:56
should have perfected that formula.
34:59
They're making strides, but little strides.
35:02
They're sort of figuring it out as they go along, I think.
35:06
Yeah, I just think what is the purpose of lack of resolution?
35:14
Because obviously we've seen, you know, a criticism that
35:18
you've levied on this podcast about the Xbox is that a lot of
35:23
the central mysteries might not necessarily go anywhere or have
35:29
a sort of solid conclusion. And my thinking is sometimes a,
35:35
an answer to the mystery is not always the point.
35:40
She of course, you know who killed Roy Palmer?
35:43
Well, that's not entirely the point of 20.
35:47
You know, it's more how that affects the characters moving
35:51
forward. The nature of evil, isn't it?
35:53
The nature of evil and generational trauma and sins of
35:56
performer and. Yeah.
35:59
I think in one, you know, it's less about providing an
36:04
explanation for the ideas that they're trying.
36:07
It's more just presenting the ideas.
36:10
You know, the idea of the week is the Jersey Devil.
36:14
Go away and talk about that you. Know rather than saying it's not
36:17
going to be the Jersey Devil, so don't even talk about that.
36:21
Yes. Yeah, so go on.
36:24
Well, no, no, and of course, you know, the the usual, the hideous
36:27
cliche at the end of every season one episode of The
36:30
X-Files, the the horror is still there.
36:33
This is the easily by our country mile, the worst example
36:37
of that as some poor little brat comes emerging out of the hole
36:43
wearing and he's like right, just sort of look a bit feral,
36:47
but kind of cute as well, you know, so this poor kids.
36:50
Yeah, you don't know how to be angry because you're only a 7
36:53
year old. Go where you are.
36:55
Bad. I mean, how anyone?
36:58
Could do anything but laugh at the end of that.
37:01
You're like, but the point being that, you know, if you think
37:08
about, for example, what's happening to the pilot in is it
37:12
Deep Throat, the mystery of the test pilots?
37:16
And we don't quite find out, But that's not the point.
37:20
The point is that the what's happening is so strange and so
37:26
awful that these characters refuse to face up for what's.
37:31
Happening impacts the families. Doesn't it?
37:33
Or the mum at the end of Conduit is just like, I'm just going to
37:37
pretend that my daughter was having a crazy point with some
37:41
teenagers and that's what's happened to her.
37:43
You know, we don't want to know what's happened because we've
37:47
got our narrative resolution and the much more interesting story
37:52
beat, which is the mum living in denial for the rest of their
37:57
days. You know it's.
37:58
Like a satisfying emotional conclusion, isn't it, rather
38:01
than a narrative? One, and that's the point.
38:03
That's this kind of thing where you look at and go, actually
38:07
that is the point of that story. There should be no solution.
38:11
I can't. I'm not a writer myself, but I
38:14
can't conceive of one that would be more interesting than the
38:20
mother who chooses to live in denial because she can't face up
38:24
to the Superman. And it's a 11 there, isn't it?
38:27
Because then obviously Mulder's got no closure on Samantha and
38:31
it's him crying in the church. So it's really moving, that
38:34
ending. Exactly so, but this like I
38:38
said, that's why in my head I'm trying to tie it to maybe make
38:43
it the origins and spooky Mulder as in like that's the point is
38:47
to show he is a thing that was so patently ridiculous that
38:52
everyone at the FBI lost their shit with him and that's how he
38:56
became the FBI's most unwanted have.
38:58
You heard about that genius Fox Mulder?
39:01
He's been out in the Jersey woods, You know, like.
39:05
Have you seen this drawing of you got giant tits and then
39:12
definitely based on that? And you're right, the only.
39:16
Person that we can get emotionally involved with in
39:20
this episode is Mulder right? There is nobody else that the
39:23
Jersey Devil is impacting like there was in the 1st 4.
39:26
Yeah, and this is like, finally, that homeless man gets to watch
39:29
HBO. Yeah, he's stuck without cable
39:32
TV. This on time.
39:34
Maybe even if like the woman from the pre title sequence, you
39:38
know, whose husband gets dragged away.
39:40
So maybe if they were involved in the story.
39:42
I know it's the same thing as Conduit, but it's something
39:45
because Molder's motives are so inscrutable.
39:48
You know, it's just that he's fascinated.
39:50
That's it. And then so so the ending is so
39:53
unsatisfying because she just gets murdered.
39:55
He's angry. What are we supposed to take
39:57
away from this? Yeah, and that's why it's even
40:00
more bizarre that it's Chris Carter, because you almost want
40:03
to say to the Chris. What is the point of this
40:06
script? More like forget about good or
40:09
bad quality of current dialogue or funny jokes or, you know,
40:15
whether the plot goes A to B to C Forget about that.
40:19
What? What do we take from the end of
40:21
this episode? Because we've just talked about
40:24
what we could take from the end of Conduit or the end of Deep
40:27
Throat. What can we take from this
40:30
moving forward? We we're kind of left in the
40:35
same place with Molda. If anything, we have a slightly
40:39
lower view and even lower view of Molda than we did at the
40:43
beginning. And Scully, we're we're told
40:49
that she wants to hang out with Molda more.
40:52
I don't know. It was specifically like rock on
40:55
to a point where she kind of looks at Molda and goes, yeah, I
41:00
want to do more. I don't think we really get that
41:03
right. But because the guy that she
41:05
goes on a date with seems like an all right guy, I don't.
41:10
Think boring? No, isn't it?
41:11
The conversation is not exactly riveting, Jack.
41:13
It's not well, hence why we barely spend like 2 minutes in
41:18
that scene. He literally goes to work on the
41:21
first date. Oh, I was thinking of going away
41:23
with the kids. Do you want to come?
41:25
I'd be like wow mate this is the first night, can we fuck first?
41:29
And then on the second date, hey, do you want to bring your
41:34
godson on the second date? But I go to the kids.
41:38
What the hell? We're integrating families on
41:40
the second date. Like, come on.
41:42
Yeah. But yeah, that's that's where
41:45
I'm coming to. It is.
41:46
If I see the name Chris Carter on the credits, I'm in the
41:50
writer credit. I'm kind of wanting more.
41:54
And that's not to say that he's gonna be the best writer on the
42:00
show moving forward. I don't know.
42:02
I mean, what? What if you had to add up in
42:05
totality? What do you say he's the best
42:09
all round wife or Michelle? What do you think?
42:11
There are too many hit negatives compared to positives or.
42:15
Actually schizophrenic, right? The thing that excites me about
42:19
Chris Carter is he writes genuinely the best and the worst
42:25
scripts that you will see throughout the Xbox.
42:29
And I will give you examples of both.
42:31
Yeah, stuff that's considered the best of the best, like
42:33
Dwayne Barry and Anasazi and things like that.
42:36
And stuff that's considered the absolute worst, like first
42:39
person shooter in Series 7, which is just a it is more on
42:43
every level and Fight Club as well.
42:45
That's really, really terrible episode.
42:47
So like, you don't know what you're going to get from Chris
42:51
Carter from one from one week to the next.
42:54
And that's kind of exciting, but also baffling.
43:00
It is baffling because you'd figure he's the one person that
43:03
figures out the show. Actually, you know who it is who
43:05
figures out the show? Vince Gilligan, who wrote
43:08
Breaking Bad. He comes in in season 2 and he
43:12
writes episodes right the way through to season 9.
43:15
And he writes the most playful, the most forensic, like in
43:22
examining the show itself, the scariest, you know, he really
43:28
figures out and, and he develops himself as a writer as he goes
43:31
along. Whereas Casa, it's just like he
43:33
just is constantly taking shots in different directions.
43:37
And sometimes he hits and sometimes he's way off.
43:40
But I do quite like that about Casa.
43:42
Yeah, I mean, it's funny, you know, if he mentioned had
43:45
mentioned before about the play for me to be at falls and then
43:50
Sean the twisting and the, you know, we have to have a formula
43:55
to deviate from that. And the issue I guess I have
43:59
with this is, is not only does it seem formula, it almost seems
44:06
formula without the data inputted.
44:11
It just feels like if you removed all the numbers from the
44:14
equation and just left this of equals sign at the end.
44:18
It's like this, just this just feels like, yeah, that that's
44:23
kind of what a template script for The X-Files should probably
44:26
be. Except we forgot to explain what
44:29
the monster is. See you next week.
44:34
But we promise you, it's going to be scary, and those
44:37
charismatic actors, David Dick Company and Gillian Anderson
44:40
will be in it. So do TuneIn.
44:41
Plus, it's going to be stylish as hell.
44:43
Because I'll tell you what, Jack the production values just get
44:46
better and better as this show goes along.
44:47
Yeah, I mean, what do you think about the production on this
44:50
episode? I mean, I don't think it's
44:52
terrible. I think the the there's a ton of
44:55
location work. There always is in The X-Files,
44:57
which always looks great. That's what a leafy forest work
45:00
always looks really atmospheric. As usual in Series 1, some of
45:05
the interiors are very overlit. So there's the bit where they're
45:08
walking through that warehouse and it's the most dramatic
45:10
looking warehouse you've ever seen with a big fan, you know,
45:13
with the light coming through it.
45:16
But I mean, it wasn't terrible. I don't, I don't think the
45:18
direction here is really the problem.
45:21
He's directing the script as written and it's a terrible
45:25
script. Yeah, It's like, you know, a
45:28
poll from the fact that they had to go, hey, we are in New
45:31
Jersey, so here's a casino and here's a run down the King
45:36
Street, and here's, you know, a poll from that.
45:40
It feels like that you said, because the script is quiet.
45:44
I don't know what words you want to use for it.
45:48
It just feels like there's not a lot to clap onto.
45:53
And then it's over and they go, well, that was another X file, I
45:57
guess we're not even going to bother.
46:00
Happens going right up that one. I think there are episodes of
46:04
The X File in Series 1, and I'll point at things like Young at
46:08
Heart and Lazarus, which you're covering, and Gender Bender
46:13
where they're over directed because they're so thin, the
46:17
premises. And so the director's just gone,
46:19
right? I can see what I've got to do
46:22
here. I've got to bring some visual
46:23
interest to this bloody, dreary scripts and they really, really
46:27
go for it. And you're just like, Oh my God,
46:29
he's trying. The director's trying too hard
46:33
on this terrible. I don't think that's an issue
46:35
here. I think the director delivers
46:37
something that is perfectly competent.
46:39
To watch exactly what they meant to do.
46:44
Yes, unfortunately, yeah, yeah, You can only present what's been
46:50
written. And what has been written is,
46:53
you know, a naked woman who's been slightly muddied up with an
46:56
enormous wig straddling fox moulder in the forest.
46:59
And there's only so many ways you can shoot that.
47:02
Yeah, the only fun funny thing I noticed was when they're doing
47:07
that chase up onto the roof so they get what might, I'm
47:12
assuming it's David, to call me and Gillian Anderson to both do
47:16
the same little barrel roll, the exact same little roll, and then
47:21
at different times and they both get out to run after and I'm
47:24
back. That was amusing.
47:27
But yeah, the rest of it is just here's what's on the page to
47:30
present that. You know, I don't think it's
47:33
lacking. I just think it's here's a 45
47:37
minute thing which, you know, for the first fully solo month
47:42
for the week, then I just wanted my just go crazy with that.
47:48
You know, it's not going to impact the chronology of the
47:51
show. Go wild with this 45 minutes of
47:55
time. But instead you like well, that
47:58
was 45 minutes of time and this. Interestingly, I think the next
48:03
episode that you're doing, and I'll just drop it now, you're
48:06
doing Fire, which is also written by Chris Carter, and it
48:10
was quite popular at the time, I think.
48:12
I mean, I think it's problematic in lots of ways, but we'll get
48:15
into that. But the director does come in
48:19
and present some impressive set pieces.
48:24
So I think that's going to be more to what you're saying
48:27
there. It's just going for it.
48:29
Yeah, that's what I want from the the monster of the week ones
48:33
is like give me a unique experience.
48:36
Because when we go back to the alien conspiracy, why dark
48:40
stuff, then I'm expecting more of a template and visual palette
48:45
and that's OK because that's what people want to come to The
48:48
X-Files for. But here, give me something that
48:52
may be people who are coming to The X-Files might not even be
48:56
accepted, you know? So, so my sort of putting all of
49:02
this together, I think it is full of hoary old X-Files
49:05
cliches. Somehow in episode 5, we've got
49:08
cliches already. The person that turns up and
49:11
delivers exposition, you know the the eccentric expert that's
49:15
pulled in. Moulder on an.
49:19
Obsessive quest. You know, these things are all
49:21
there and a bit disappointing. Plus a kind of ambiguous and not
49:30
especially compelling antagonist this week.
49:35
Is it? If barely.
49:36
I mean, that's almost too stronger.
49:39
Well, that's that's supposed to be.
49:41
The people firing the guns, I guess, are the.
49:43
Antagonists. I mean, but the the most amusing
49:47
thing I found was this is the only episode of The X-Files that
49:51
I can think of where Mulder uses The Jungle Book as proof of one
49:56
of his theories because he actually says the.
49:58
Line Haven't there been cases where a man has been raised in
50:03
the wilderness by animals who have no language and hunt like
50:06
predators? I'm like it's all.
50:08
About the bloody Jungle Book from God.
50:12
A wife I've got in my file here, it says the bare necessities
50:19
will come to you and right now they're coming to us.
50:24
A few years down the line, where The X-Files has developed a
50:27
sense of humour, Scully would be like Hooby Doo.
50:30
I want to be like. You did you hear that, Scully?
50:33
It said. It wants to be like us.
50:38
It isn't great, but I have to say I did like the Scully
50:43
subplot, but that I think also condemns the main plot because
50:47
it isn't that interesting. It's just refreshingly
50:50
different. If I hate someone who connect
50:55
finally. But also, what is that dress
50:58
that she wears on the date? It looks like she's getting
51:00
married already. Maybe she's trying to block the
51:04
date deliberately. I don't want to do this.
51:08
I want to be hunting for more X-Files.
51:11
Have have I? What do you think of this
51:13
curtain I'm draped in? I think this would be good for
51:15
the wedding, don't you? Oh.
51:16
My God, he goes. Yeah, you you use it ironically.
51:20
Now you look like Miss Havisham and Great Expectations.
51:24
She does. She does.
51:26
She's setting up her future career.
51:29
What a career, Jack. Good grief.
51:31
Well, look, OK, so we've got to try and sort of settle in on on
51:36
a score. Now I'm doing scores for these
51:38
episodes now see for some reason I've gone for the old school
51:41
scores, A+ to F. So we've got to both give it a
51:46
score and then try and come to some sort of compromise.
51:50
I mean, it's obviously, it's definitely probably because to
51:53
these five, first five, I mean, I can't obviously, I think
51:59
because my expectations were dropped through the floor.
52:03
This meant to you listening to the last four episodes, three of
52:07
which you said you regretted it, its existence possibly.
52:15
I see my Miss Mike. I don't know if I can call it a
52:19
pass engrave, but it's a submission.
52:23
You know, you didn't just like written by Chris Cart or me.
52:26
Any credits? Like there's 45 minutes of
52:30
television here. It's got Jimmy Anderson in this
52:33
name of Scully. So, you know, it can't be that
52:36
bad. Maybe, but.
52:41
I mean, I would. Have given this.
52:42
Without the Scully Romans, I would have given this an E,
52:45
yeah, which is not quite an F, but I would have given it an E
52:48
for the main plot. But with Scully stuff, maybe AD
52:52
I'd give it. Yeah.
52:54
OK. So that's quite limp.
52:58
Limp is maybe the word that kind of want to use.
53:01
It's sort of limps over the finish line and it's a thing
53:06
breakfast. It doesn't take too many wild
53:10
swings. So I can't really quite really
53:15
an epic failure. It just solves it Fists.
53:18
I mean, what the how has your opinion changed on it and where?
53:25
Without wanting to spoil things too much, where would you say it
53:30
roughly lands in season 1? Would you declare it the worst
53:34
one? Or I think there's a couple in
53:38
the middle of Season 1 where it's got a more exciting
53:41
premise, but they just don't do anything with it.
53:44
But I think it's certainly down there.
53:46
It's sort of the bottom. Three, it would sit somewhere in
53:49
the bottom 3. But I will say I watched the
53:52
next episode, Shadows, which I used to really enjoy and I
53:55
really struggled with. Whereas this one I used to
53:59
absolutely hate and say this was an absolute Turkey and I thought
54:04
it was competent, you know, not the script, but the execution.
54:11
And I did like the character stuff with Scully.
54:14
So this one sort of raised up a bit in my expectations.
54:17
Whereas Shadows went way down. So yeah, I think I sort of
54:23
settled. I would settle around AD.
54:25
What did you say? C minus.
54:27
Probably just because is it going to be the worst?
54:31
I would be surprised if it was the worst episode for the Xbox I
54:35
ever watched, but I'm kind of hoping that it's the least
54:40
ambitious because that was what I kind of came away with going.
54:44
This feels like it could be released.
54:46
Ambitious episode, but there ever was, and I'm hoping that's
54:51
the case. Yeah, I just kind of wanted the
54:56
guy that Scully was dating to be an alien, and I kind of just
55:00
wanted that whole thing. BB episode like to be honest.
55:04
How much of that Scully date episode where I dated an alien?
55:09
That was the whole episode. Yeah, and Mold is trying to
55:11
interrupt it, but she thinks that Mold is getting jealous or
55:14
something else. But Mold is.
55:16
I know I need to get in there. Jack the only other episode
55:20
where Scully has a date in this entire run, right, is when she
55:24
just has some bad health news. And so she goes on a wild night
55:27
out with somebody, has a tattoo put on her arm, which is made
55:32
with sort of psychotropic ink, and the tattoo starts talking to
55:37
her and telling her to kill people.
55:39
I mean, it's just wonderful. Then if that's an idea you
55:43
someone's come up with an idea there he was like maybe a
55:48
Sasquatch film, but. I guess he plays the tattoo.
55:54
Jodie Foster. There they are.
55:58
She should be a tattoo of Chloe's.
56:02
Should we settle on if you're saying C minus and I'm saying D,
56:05
should we settle on AD plus then?
56:07
Yeah, that's fair. That seems fair, if just because
56:11
I, again, I don't have the rest of the series to judge off of.
56:14
I'm just trying to say I watched it this morning, we'll probably
56:20
never watch it again. And you know, I hope, but going
56:25
forward they can really in these solo episodes, monster of the
56:30
week episodes, can you step up the ambition and the creative
56:34
drive a bit more, you know, well.
56:37
What I'm hoping to do Jack is at the end of each season because
56:42
I'm only having like 5 or 6 contributors on the xhamster
56:45
files. Yes, that is deliberate.
56:49
I'm hoping to gather everyone together at the end of the
56:52
season and, and because everyone's sort of going and
56:55
doing the episodes, even the ones they're not covering.
56:57
So then maybe we can come back and sort of look at the season
57:01
as a whole and and see how these things fall into place once
57:05
you've seen the whole lot. Yeah, well, I'm hope, I'm hoping
57:08
that they can there will be a sort of wider picture and that
57:12
we can at least go, well, this was good when it happened here
57:16
and this led to this. And, you know, these solo
57:20
episodes were the most exciting ones, and that maybe at that
57:23
point, but Jersey Devil will be a long, long distant memory.
57:30
The production team were hoping so, yes.
57:32
Yeah. Well, you and I Jack, we are
57:36
heading to see the fabulous Mark Shepherd, he who has appeared in
57:42
every genre show, going as the main villain of Chris Carter's
57:47
next epic, Fire. Fire.
57:52
But you haven't got an issue with fire, have you?
57:56
Not unless I touch it, but apart from that I couldn't.
57:59
I'll only give you 1 spoiler, OK?
58:01
One of the regulars in fire, Yeah, that's even Molder or
58:05
Scully, obviously has previously never heard of and then never
58:10
heard of again. Fear of fire, of course of.
58:15
Course. Well I'm assuming it's a model
58:19
that because skull is red hair. Well.
58:24
Yeah. And just to entice you even
58:27
further, the most British upper class person you're ever going
58:33
to see in an American TV show. More than Gillian Anderson.
58:37
No, she's. Got Gillian Gillian Anderson
58:39
starts doing impressions of her in the episode.
58:43
I'm I'm excited. I am it is fired just going to
58:47
be a prequel episode for The Smoking Man.
58:50
Oh. That why the hell weren't you
58:53
the. Script.
58:54
They call him Mr. Fire.