Latest / Ridiculous History / Surprising Former Careers, Part 2: Truman Can't Sell Hats

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Surprising Former Careers, Part 2: Truman Can't Sell Hats · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: as always for tuning in. Let's give it up for
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: our super producer, Mr Max Williams. Spicy Boy a k
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: A Yeah, yeah, a K Street named Spicy Boy. That's
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: b O. I uh. And let's also give it up
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: for a research associate on this one, Mr Max Williams.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Here we go a little energy here. I'm ben Uh.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Joined as always with the man in the myth, the legend,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Mr Noel Brown. No, mainly myth. I like to think
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: myself of mythological sec myth. Yeah, sort of a winged
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Pegasus chimera type figure, you know. Would you say it's
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: a former career, Well, it continues to aid me in
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: my current career. But yeah, back in the day, in
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the days of of your I was more of a
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: harbinger of the plague, things of that nature. I mean, no,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I have known you, Free, I've worked with you for
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: years now, and I have never seen you in person. Well,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: there you go. You've seen my head, which is a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: sort of sort of like a sphinx rules you know,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I've got the human head, but That's why I only
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: show above the neck on the zooms. Never will you
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: see my winged the shoulders, shoulders or or claws or talents.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Got goat legs down here too, I said, Pegasus, But
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: you know I'm still a biped. I don't know why
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I said that. Yeah, yeah, sort of a centaur Pegasus.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: If anyone is uh, if anyone's interesting in my former career,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I think all I can legally say is that there
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: is a total lunar eclipse that occurred this past Tuesday.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: As you are hearing this episode, no other spoilers. Have
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: fun see me at the mirror or the crossroots in
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the dark. Today we are continuing something that has fascinated
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: all three of us. We're looking at the surprising former
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: careers of notable historic figures. We're talking about heads of state,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: and in this episode we're talking a lot about actors. Now.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: It's it's true. We discussed this in Surprising Former Careers
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Part one. It's true that a lot of times in
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: your history books you'll see someone remembered for just one thing,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: right like Buzz Aldrin may have some cool emo albums,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: maybe a classical guitarist. The main thing Buzz Aldron is
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: known for is being an astronaut. There's a great Mitchell
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and Web skit about that. And today, no, we're we're
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: diving into some pretty surprising careers. And I'm really happy
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Max that you also clocked our first guy, Christopher Lee.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Oh what what a what a bad can I say badass? Oh? Okay, no, okay,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: what a badass this guy was? Yeah? I mean you know,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: he's first of all, he's a badass when he appears
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: in films such as The Wicker Man. Uh no spoilers,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: but he's a creepy culty kind of fellow. Obviously. He
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: played the evil Wizards sorrow Man in the in the
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings films, and he was also like
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: an early Dracula drag Dracula, Dracour Dracula, a good one
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  Speaker 1: sort of in the era of camp. But he definitely
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  Speaker 1: brought a little bit of debonair swagger to that role.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: He sure did, and he lived one epic life. Christopher
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Lee passed away at the age of ninety three in
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: and in his time as an actor, he made well
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: over two hundred fifty movies. I think it's two hundred
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: seventy five movies. He's known for these iconic betrayals, often
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: in horror films. But he had come to this. He
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: had come to this film industry as a veteran. He
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: was born in London in twenty nine. Now he's just
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: playing Dracula, folks, he is human. Uh. He was seventeen
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: when the UK entered World War Two and he volunteered
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: for the Finnish Army. And he has this great quote
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: where he says, we went there with a group of
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: friends and said we wanted to help. We could shoot
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: pretty well, but could not ski. We were thanked for hell,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: but didn't of course get anywhere close to the border.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: And that wasn't enough. Word. No, he wanted the action,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: you know, Oh, no, exactly. He wanted to get in there.
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  Speaker 1: He wanted he wanted to be a part of the fray.
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  Speaker 1: So he went back home to the UK and he
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  Speaker 1: enlisted in the Royal Air Force. He had, unfortunately there
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: damaged his optic nerve which made him ineligible for flight
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  Speaker 1: uh certification, so he served as an r A F
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  Speaker 1: intelligence officer instead, which, as we know, this is kind
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: of where some of that early you know, UK intelligence
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: kind of spycraft stuff arose from. He ascended to the
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: rank of flight lieutenant, and he essentially was responsible for
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  Speaker 1: briefing and debriefing pilots um and also being kind of
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: a go between between the pilots and other units within
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the division. Yeah, exactly, this this hide you have. Being
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  Speaker 1: an intelligence officer sometimes sounds super cool, sometimes sounds super
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  Speaker 1: you know, nerdy, But there's a murky part to the
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  Speaker 1: narrative here. This guy Lee says that while he was
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  Speaker 1: an intelligence officer, he liaised, as you said, NOL with
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  Speaker 1: U some some pretty elite units in World War Two.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: We're talking s a S. Special operations executive, the kind
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: of folks who send people as assets off the books,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: under the radar, into enemy territory. His military career, as
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: far as we can tell, appears to be chock full
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: of James Bond type stuff. And you can hear these
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: stories about how he personally snuck behind access lines, how
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: he helped destroy and sabotage aircraft, how he participated in
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: re taking sicily. But again there's a lot of allegedly here.
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  Speaker 1: And he also helped track down Nazis. Again this is
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: this is largely bandied about, but the nature some of
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: these missions are such that they couldn't be officially confirmed
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: for a long time. Check out. By the way, an
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: episode of stuff they Don't want you to know coming
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: out on federal classification with Nolan uh Max will be
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: producing that one with us and our good friend Matt Frederick.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Max, just for fun, can
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: you can you play the Matt Max sound cue? Nice
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: HiT's never a wrong time, Never never a wrong time.
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  Speaker 1: Gosh what a bop. So the thing is, know, as
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  Speaker 1: you know, Christopher Lee never really talked about his wartime
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: experience and depth. He actually in two thousand eleven he said,
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  Speaker 1: it's just sal is in Special Forces and leave it
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  Speaker 1: at that. People can read into that what they like.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: They did, Yeah, it did as a kind of statement
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: that makes one's imagination run a little bit haywire. So
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: there within within that statement and his sort of you know,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: attitude towards talking about his past became this I can
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: relate to mythologizing kind of of this period in Christopher
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Lee's life, a man who would ultimately go on to
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: become much more known as playing badasses in movies or
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: at the very least kind of you know, creeps and
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: weirdos and and arch nemesses, but after his death in
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: a guy named Gavin Mortimer was able to do a
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: little bit of digging and unearthed some very interesting findings.
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  Speaker 1: In an article for The Spectator, Um, Ben, if you would,
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  Speaker 1: my friends, this is uh, this is really kind of
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  Speaker 1: the the lead here. Oh yeah, yeah, Gavin Mortimer says,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Lee didn't exactly lie, but you did leaders on encouraging
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  Speaker 1: us to believe it had involved more darry Do than
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: it actually did. Darren did Darren did there? It is there,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: it is no, we're keeping it. That was gold. Uh
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: So people go back and forth, is what we're saying
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  Speaker 1: about the um level of possible embellishment in Lee's military career.
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  Speaker 1: And again, the thing you have to remember about that
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  Speaker 1: kind of work, intelligence work, wet work, treecraft, whatever you
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: want to call it, is that when it is successful,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: you don't talk about it, right, You just don't. It's
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: just hey that I fell out of that window. Uh.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Fight club? What's that? It's like fight club? The first
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: rules you don't don't talk about what are you talking?
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  Speaker 1: So so yeah, so we see that there were um,
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  Speaker 1: we see there are competing claims about the level of
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  Speaker 1: his involvement directly in the action. This guy Mortimer, I'm
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  Speaker 1: so glad you brought him up. No, he is one
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  Speaker 1: of the on record um one of the on record researchers.
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  Speaker 1: Disputing some of these claims. He says Lee did not
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  Speaker 1: serve in the s O E or the s A S.
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  Speaker 1: But he does confirm the guy did function as a
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  Speaker 1: liaison officer between nine and forty five. And he says
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  Speaker 1: Lee was perfectly free to talk about the details of
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  Speaker 1: his service. So he may have been, you know, kind
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  Speaker 1: of encouraging to make of his own myth. As you
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: pointed out, Max, we the people, the public, both sides
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  Speaker 1: of the Atlantic, we'll probably never know the truth, the
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  Speaker 1: full truth about Christopher Lee's military career, but we do
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  Speaker 1: know that he did something and then he left and
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  Speaker 1: made a legendary career as an actor. Uh. And you
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: have to wonder, you have to wonder what that kind
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  Speaker 1: of life was like. I I remember reading an anecdote
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  Speaker 1: where where in Christopher Lee interrupted the filming of a
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  Speaker 1: scene to say, Hey, that's not the noise people make
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  Speaker 1: when you come at them behind with a knife, and
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  Speaker 1: and like apparently he did the noise. It was like
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  Speaker 1: here's how here's how it sounds. That's where what shall
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: we uh, shall we litigate this a bit between the
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  Speaker 1: three of us. What do you think was he was
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  Speaker 1: he building a myth, you know, as as the band
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  Speaker 1: Beach House would say, building himself a myth? Um? Was
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  Speaker 1: this to add a casher and swagger to maybe his
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  Speaker 1: his Hollywood street cred? Or was he just kind of
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  Speaker 1: tight lipped about it? And this guy Mortimer doesn't know
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  Speaker 1: what he's talking about. Yeah, I mean, let's let's litigate.
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  Speaker 1: Let's do because pull we have very little like you know,
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  Speaker 1: deats like as to you know, I don't know if
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  Speaker 1: it was truly off the books, You're not only gonna
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  Speaker 1: find it in any books or records, right, Yeah, And
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  Speaker 1: that's why we have to go to these statements, right
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  Speaker 1: and treat them objectively. One piece I will note is,
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  Speaker 1: you know, everybody's waiting for us to point this out. Obviously,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Building a Mystery by Sarah McLaughlin is a d percent
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  Speaker 1: about Christopher Lee's military career and the later cover up.
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  Speaker 1: And all you all you have to do is read
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  Speaker 1: the lyrics. Folks. We're not here to persuade you. We're
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: just giving you the facts, and those facts are solid
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: as long as no one checks that claim about Sarah
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  Speaker 1: McLaughlin and building a mystery, right, I mean, I wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: be surprised in this case, would be like he'd be
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  Speaker 1: talking to someone after the war and there, God, so
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: what do you do when you kind of just told
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  Speaker 1: him one of that. It's like, oh, was that like
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  Speaker 1: special Operations really chreking down Nazis? And he's like, sure,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: why not? And that's where I love this spun from.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: But I did want to give a shout out to
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the research material on this one is from an all
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: That's interesting article by Talina Fraga titled very titled by
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the way, from Nazi Hunting through Covert Missions inside the
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: military career of actor Christopher Lee. Yeah, and when you
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: put that in a headline like that, it turns heads,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: which I think is when headlines are meant to do.
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  Speaker 1: But alas we really will probably never truly know the
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  Speaker 1: real extent of Christopher Lee's military career. Ah And speaking
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: of headlines, let's go to our next surprising career just
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the headline will give you from New York Times by
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Michael Beschloss for Harry Truman. The bucks stopped at a
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: brush with bankruptcy. So Harry Truman, uh, some of you
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: made him as a former president of the United States.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: He was before that deep in the hat business and
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: he was not great at selling hats. No, no, Um
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: have a dashery, which I think is is also it's
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: not just a hattery. It's a men's clothing boutique of
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: some sort. I guess maybe they leaned a little more
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: into the into the hats. And it all goes back
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: to kind of a series of unfortunate events beginning with
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: his maternal grandfather, Solomon Young, who did, in fact strike
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: you rich during the California gold Rush. Uh this you know,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: newfound largesse allowed him to build quite a large ranch,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: around forty thousand acres um. This is a big deal.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: This is this is a is a massive piece of property.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: The ranch could have potentially been worth millions of dollars. Unfortunately, though,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: he did one of those things where you like you
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: sell your property when it's underwater essentially, or when you
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: like owe more than the property's worth, or at the
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: very least, selling too early, you know, and paying too much,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and you're screwed. You know. That's why you gotta have
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: those diamond hands. You gotta have those diamond Solomon young. Yeah,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: people don't really say that anymore because I think people
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: are very over crypto. But this is sort of like
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: a speculative kind of situation and either you know time
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: it right or you don't. And the and Solomon didn't, No,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: unfortunately didn't. And this means that when when young Truman
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: is growing up in Missouri, uh, everything depends on their
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: rather humble farm in Grand View. Now, look, whatever you
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: may think of the Truman administration, which is by no
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: means a perfect administration, you have to admit Truman was
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: a smart kid. He loved reading. He really wanted to
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: go to college, but he had to stay and work
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: on the family farm, which was quite common for young
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: men in his day and age. And he liked the
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: rest of his family. Was aware that his grandfather could
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: have could have set them up for life, and as
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: his personal life probably would have went very differently had
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that had he been born into Silverspoon territory. So he
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: knew he had to make his own way. And he
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: was plowing the farmland there in Grand View and thinking,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: one of these days, I'm gonna be a big deal,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna be a wheel as they said
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: back then. Uh, he went and fought in World War One.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: He comes back and he's like, I gotta make something happen.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I can't. I can't be here in the dirt my
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: whole life. And he has moved to Independence, Missouri. At
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: this time he has married up, as they say, his wife,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Bess was a high muckety muck in the society of Independence, Missouri.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: And he links up with his old army pal Eddie Jacobson,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: and he says, you know, we did a pretty good
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: job running our side business in a canteen when we
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: were there at Camp Donophan, Oklahoma. Uh. And Eddie, you've
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: worked for years in this habit dashery business. Why don't
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: we start a little store of our own out in
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Kansas City. And so they do. Truman and Jacobson looking
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: at a twelfth Street in Baltimore Avenue right across from
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the I think it's pronounced mule Bach Hotel. Uh may
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: well be known to current Kansas City sights. Uh. They
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: sold all kinds of men's wear. I sold shirts, they
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: sold stiff collars and neckties and gloves of all varieties,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: and belts and those Panama hats I think is the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: ones that like you wear on safari Um you know
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: tends yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly under Ru's underwear, presumably boxers
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and or brief silken, you know, feels good against the
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: old the old. There you go with a little Australia
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: or medium or whatever. It takes, all kinds seemingly a
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: plethora of offerings. Also, you know, they pitched their army buddies,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: you know, to to to kind of drum up business
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: for them. Truman actually wrote a letter to an ex
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: military friend of his former lieutenant saying that we are
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: not handling any booze or candy or apples. I love
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: how those are the three things. He wants to get
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: that out of the way, real guy. He's like, okay, bro,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I know you were out at you and we're not
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: in the apple game. We're not in candy and also
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: no to booze. But but our shirt line and the
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: rest of it are as good as money can buy. Yeah,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And Truman is the accountant in this outfit, Jacobson Eddie
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Jacobson is the buyer. Truman also puts up the majority
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: of the capital to start the store, and he does
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: this by selling off pieces of the family farm. Uh
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: never never a great look, and Truman himself was apparently
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: uncertain about exactly how much of his holdings were in
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: this partnership. In Truman, talking in retrospect in n he
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: said the business earned as much as seventy thousand dollars.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: That's about eight thirty grand today of what inflation calculate.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: So not that uh, you know, not too much. The
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: sneeze at there, that's that's pretty great. But nothing exists
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: in a vacuum, and the store is not immune to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the post war bust, or what we would call the
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: interwar bust. Now that time between World War One and
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: World War Two, there's a lot of deflation and prices,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are out of a job. This
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: also later leads to an attempted coup of the Roosevelt administration.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Just gonna throw that one in there and move on.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: So the thing is, you can blame the national economic
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: environment right for the stores problems, but it is that
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the whole explanation. Maybe they just weren't great at it Man's.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: It seems like they had a bang up up upper
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: class men's shop, you know, but maybe they just weren't
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: particularly good with money or with with handling inventory. You know,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: there there's more to running a small business than just
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: having cool stuff and uh and filling a need, because
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: there's also like a lot of procedural things that you
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: have to do correctly. Maybe their their friends they told
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: like no booze, no candy, no apples. Showed up there
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: and he's all like, yeah, I'm gonna buy it on
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: stuff and then walked in. There was just like a
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: ton of candy and apples everywhere, just everywhere. And he
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: told everyone's like, they're liars, they're liars. No booze, no booze,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: by the way, but plenty of candy and apples just everywhere.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: They even have candy apples. That's too far, that's a rubicon,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: too far, but cross it they did. The issue was
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: that they're selling what you could think of as kind
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: of luxury goods right in a time when many people
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: are not just figuratively but literally tightening their belts and yeah,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: just so, and this is where things get ugly. This,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I think tells us a lot about the nature of
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Harry Truman's character. In the spring of nineteen two, stuff
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: is clearly going south. The business is finished nineteen twenty three,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Truman gets elected to be a judge in Jackson County, Missouri,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and he later says, ala creditors drove Eddy into bankruptcy,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: but I became a public official and they couldn't do
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: that to me. Doesn't sound like real buddy system there.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Sounds like he, uh, cut the guy loose when it
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't convenient to be friends anymore. And Alonso L. Hanby
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: put it this way, this is Truman's biographer. Um, there's
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: this quote that Max pulled from an article in The
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: New York Times by Michael beck Schloss from April of
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, where he takes this quote from Truman's biographer
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: that I think sheds a good bit of light here.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Quote the ethic by which he had been taught to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: conduct his life told Truman, the formal legal renunciation of
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: debts was disgraceful. So while he didn't have like all
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: of the money on hand to repay his debt from
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the failed haberdashery, he did pay the bank back about
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: ten years later, and less than ten cents on the dollars.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So who's dictating these terms, is my question? I mean,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: it's like he's he's throwing his weight around a little
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: bit and saying you can't really mess with me because
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I'm an elected official. I mean I will say when, like,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: you know, someone does file with bankruptcy or something that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what the normal average amount is,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: but like it generally is at a largely discounted rate.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Is what you end up having to pay back then
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: compared to what your actual debts were? No ten cents
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: on the dollar. Say, uh, that's the deal. That's the deal. Yeah,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: that's the deal. And speaking of throwing around, wait, yeah,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: bankruptcy works differently for the wealthy and the powerful, as
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: anybody knows. And by this point, Old Harry Habitashter Truman
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: is a United States senator, So historians are still divided
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: on whether this helped him get a better settlement or
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: whether it damaged his case because the people he owed
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: money to might be able to say, we're gonna embarrass you.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: We're gonna say, hey, should this guy be a senator?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: He can't even run a freaking hat shop, which would
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: be a good you know, a good smear campaign. Well,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I think we're gonna get into how this
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: experience may have uniquely prepared him in many ways to
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: take on the kind of like or occupy the shoes,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: let's say, of other you know, normal Americans that were
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: struggling during during these times and maybe kind of impacted
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: his uh economic you know, goals and and and values
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: a little bit. That there is a really great line
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: from also the New York Times article that that we
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: had mentioned saying at the time when when he opened
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: this haberdashery, he lacked a grasp of macro economics. Let
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: us say, um, which you know again just by kind
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: of virtue of of learning by practice and by screwing up.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I think he kind of he got that grasp a
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: little bit later in life, maybe without having to have
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: some sort of advanced degree, which is kind of cool
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: in a way, your honor, I lack a grasp of
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: macro economics. It is well known. I will gladly give
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: you ten cents on the dollar. So uh So, after FDR,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: after Franklin Roosevelt dies in Fort Truman has moved up
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: through the ranks of power. He's gone from judge the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: senator to vice president and now he's president because FDR
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: found a bucket and kicked it. By the time Truman
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: runs for president on zone it's and most people are
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: talking there's a lot of good information control here. Very
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: few people are talking about how his how his habitationary
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: went belly up. They're talking about how he's a veteran
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: and he was manning the White House, you know, and uh,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: this is also the start of the Cold War. Let's
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: be more patriotic. And there is some pretty compelling research
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: that seems to indicate Truman's firsthand experience with a terrible
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: financial situation made him more cautious dealing with the finances
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: of the United States. To your point, Noel, he could say,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: two millions of Americans, Hey, but I've been there too,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: and it stinks. So let's make sure we as a
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: nation can avoid that situation. And remember Jacobson, the fellow
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: that he went into business with earlier. Despite the hatch
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: up or whatever, haberdashery kind of you know, going belly up,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: they kind of kept in touch. Which is it's again, Neat.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Truman did seem to have a connection to his roots
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: that was not diminished by his growing success in politics.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Um So the spring of his old buddy actually suggested
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: that he should recognize the state of Israel, which is
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: which is absolutely revolutionary, controversial at the time, right then, Yeah,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: this is something that tells us a lot about Jacobson
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: and Truman's friendship. You know, understandably, of the business venture
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't work out between friends, and you know, one guy
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: is still struggling financially and the other guy becomes president,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: there might be a little bit of attention, but uh,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: you know, these guys who put their life on the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: line for each other all those years ago at this point,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So this informs Truman's campaign and he goes on, you know,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: he goes around the country and he warns voters to
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: not slide downhill into bankruptcy and poverty. And then he
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: puts a little jab in there. Right, always be closing
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: on a campaign trail, He says, the way you did
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: under the Republican twelve years of rule back there in
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the twenties. Yeah, twisted, twisted can't make hats, but he
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: can make uh, he can't make some eggs. Uh. You
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: could say the only reason on Republicans were in charge
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: for twelve years was because Woodrow Wilson sucked that bad though.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, give us a boo queue. I hate that guy.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Go back to ragging on Woodrow huh All hometown hero
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Woodrow of Wilson always got you right on awards Row Wilson,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: if you've got a chance, even if you really are
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: just kind of jumping that shark rather like that was
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: a stretch on my part, but I got in there
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: and and I mentioned last time we had a Woodrow
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: hating session that I once lived on the corner of
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Woodrow and Wilson. I can't remember it was on air off,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: But but you know, I've seen I've seen Max at
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: different shin digs and social get togethers, and that's your icebreaker. Max.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: You know, you just you just freight train into a
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: conversation and you say, also, Woodrow Wilson was terrible president,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and people are super receptive. I think you have. I
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: think you're an order my friend. Thank you, buddy. I mean,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: it's easy when your icebreaker is just such an undeniable
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: truth that Woodrow Wilson was just the worst seen it.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I've seen it, you, Lithario. It's a it's a unique
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: angle and it's working. Also. Truman, he leaves the White House,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: as we know in fifty three, and he had certain
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: idea is about how the next president should behave. He
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: actually did not hop on that revolving door of lectures
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: and ghost written books and getting affiliated with different corporate boards.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: He just didn't want to play the game. And it
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: may have been an ethical quandary for him, um stuff,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: to know the inner motivations of someone like this without
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: talking to them directly, But it left him so broke
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: that he's he is the president who went to Congress
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, can not just for me? Can every
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: president have a pension when they leave office? Again, He's
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: he's like, picture this pitch. He's going, Hey, guys, being
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: president's tough. You know, I know everybody in this room
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: wants to be president, and you know, may the odds
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: be ever in your favor or whatever. But what happens
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: after presidents? Not just another former president friend of mine
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: was wondering, you know, also was this I guess it
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: was just before the days of absolutely exploiting your former
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: position into like book deals, and that really wasn't a
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: thing yet because that, to me is the stock and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: trade of a former president. You're gonna make seven figures
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: for the rest of your life just on like doing
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: speaking engagements and like, you know, getting book deals and
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah, I mean there were many presidents
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: before who had done a predecessor of that, but this
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: was before um the kind of celebrity status that you
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: see people assume after leaving office these days. Uh, and
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: you know it's not always presidents. Senators do the same thing.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: As I want to point the stocks I was thinking
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: about this send back here on. I don't actually know
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: the answer, but how many ex presidents were even alive
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: at this point when he's going there? No Fdr Stead,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Fdr Stead Obviously Wilson's dead, Art Instead Adams died in office.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I'm a stooping Calvin Coolidge. I know Hoover was still alive.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty certain who were still alive at this point.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: So that's about it. So a friend of his could
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: use some help, is what he said. So I liked.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I like the way we're doing this. So, uh, we
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: know that he did get back in better financial shape
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: in fifty five, when the some of the farmland that
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: he's still held in Grand View was developed into a
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: shopping center similar to the strip malls you might see
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: in your neck of the Global Woods, Truman Corners Town
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and Country Shoppers City. It sounds a lot like that
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Tim Robinson sketch from I think you should leave now
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: the shops by the Creek. That's what happened. I think
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I have some some quality uh quality boutiques. They're not
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: no haberdasheries, I fear, But I think there's a pet
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Smart perhaps right argue. You know, yeah, there's a lead depot,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: there's a mercury salon. Uh, there's an as bestess bridle shop.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: You know it gets. It's called as best as it gets.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: And not to bury the lead nor the lead. Uh.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: He also in nineteen six, I mean, he remained active
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: in politics. So he did the thing that you see
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: all sorts of former presidents do when their political party
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: has a has a candidate. He stumped for John F.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. He got them to make
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: a campaign stop at his mall. It's very American thing
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: to do. And uh. Then and maybe this is how
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: we end this part. Then almost a hundred years later,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: after that hat shop, after that habitdashery excuse me, closes down,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Truman's Corners gets rebranded as Truman's Marketplace, it as a
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: pet Co, it as a TJ Max end it has
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: a Burlington Coat factory. You can think all all the
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: weird knick knacks between TJ Max and Burlington that you
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: can find. I mean, you know what, do you want
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: some uh some marked down artisanal syrups for your for
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: your coffee drinks. I think it's in the in the
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: in the checkout line. It's right there. You want some
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: kettle corn? Yeah, it's weird. There's as now. Yeah. Yeah,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Burlington is aberdat, that's true. It's a it's a multi
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: purpose dashery. Really, um, I think there's they sell women's
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: clothes there. And it's weird because you think they say
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: it's a factory. It's sort of like the cheesecake factory.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: It seems like false advertising. Some you go into the
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: cheesecake factory, I want to see like conveyor belts with
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: robots slicing cheesecake. Same with this. I want to see,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: you know, industrial revolution type gear making coats before my
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: very eyes. Yeah yeah, no, I looked. I wanted to
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: see whether there was a factory to when I was
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: a kid. This is an episode for another day in
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: the history of Burlington Coat Factory. And so we are
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: drawing to a close of Surprising Former Careers, Part two
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: in our continuing series. There's some stuff we didn't get to.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Steve Blushemy really interesting, dude. We don't want to spoil
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: it too much because we have more surprising former careers
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: on the way. We would love to hear your thoughts
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: over at our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, But no, Max,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: what better way to end this episode than to talk
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: a little, you know, a little trivia. Maybe it's not
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: a whole story, but Max, you dugged up some really
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: cool fast facts about some other notable celebrities. Yeah, I mean,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: I think the one. I mean, I don't want to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: really say too much because we might use these in
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: the future. I mean, I like this as a recurring
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: like series. But like there's a lot of them who
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: worked in the sex industry, like Whoopie Goldberg. I mean
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: guyn In. Guyn In of all people, she was a
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: phone sex operator. I mean she always says on T
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and G, she always this to precard. She's a great listener,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: she's a she's more people of listeners and seems like
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: you know she did that in the past. That's a
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: hard job too. I've always thought, you know, um, there's
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: so yeah, Whoopie Goldberg. Let's see, was it. John Hamm
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: also had a career in the adult industry for a time,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: or a gig at least. I just had a big
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: old ding dong. Um. But I mean, I guess those
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: things are not mutually exclusive. I didn't know that he
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: was an adult. He wasn't the talent he was Okay,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: got it? Um? What's his name? I'm William Dafoe, also
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: known known Large Large Australia. Uh And he was in
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: sort of a weird theater group. I wouldn't call it
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: porn exactly, but you can't find full nude hangdong video
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: of of our boy Willem performance artists doing that thing around. Yeah.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: They also they also used a stunt double. I think
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: in may have been the film Anti Ka, just because
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: they wanted a more believable Australia for the guy. Uh
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: So they're also disturbingly large, right, correct, I've seen it? Yeah,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: like medically interesting, like like Dirk Health. Alright, we're we're
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: we're making so many high school teachers regret playing this
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: episode for their students. So let's get out of it.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Let's get here one with one last one thing. We
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: wanted to establish when it and on this we can
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: do an entire episode just about former occupations of clergy members.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: There was a pope who was a bouncer. Yeah, and
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: now he's a bouncer for the Lord. Well yeah, yeah,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: he's definitely man in the door, you know what I mean,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: ideologically and religiously. But this is just to show you
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: that there are many more former careers out there. We
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: even talked a little bit about getting kind of meta
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: talking about our own former careers. Let us know if
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that's interesting to you. In the meantime, tune in. We
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: have so much more cool stuff ahead. We're gonna get
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to mustard thanks to everybody who wrote in and with
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: some ideas about condiments. There's a huge mustard debate. There's
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: several huge mustard debates, and we're gonna get to all
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: of them. We're also gonna explore even more strange pieces
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: of ridiculous history. We're so gratefully tuned in. We can't
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: wait to hang out again very soon. In the meantime,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: thanks to our research associate super producer Mr Max Australia Williams,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: he gets it. He gets that's the double thank you.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: In one nugget there, so we don't get to thank
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: him again. In fact, I think you've about warn out
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: your thank you welcome here, Max, and you won't be
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: getting anymore thank you from us for some time. No,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I'm kidding, well, thank you un till the cows come home.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: You're a favorite human. Um, So thank you to gain back.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry for what I said. I didn't mean it.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean it. That was a real emotional Roller
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Coast Journal. And I don't know how to respond to
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: all that. I don't have to. I liked it. I
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: liked it just thanks of course, Thanks of course to
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: uh the one old Mr Noel Brown. Thank you to
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, who has a surprising former career as not
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: being our nemesis. It's a bit of past life. Yes, uh,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: let's see you. Who else thinks also too? Of course?
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Uh Chris Frosty otis Eve's Jeff Coat. Thanks to oh
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: you know, I want to say thanks to our pals
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Diana and Eli over ridiculous Romance, Thanks to our pals
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Zarin and Elizabeth over ridiculous crime. And thanks of course
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: to our good pals Mark and Bill over at ridiculous News.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: If you like this show, you're gonna love all three
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: of those shows. Uh, so give them, give them a
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: little TLC drop a rating for them or us, and
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: let's make sure that let's make sure that we could
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: keep podcasting our current career. How about that. Also, if
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: you just think our show is okay, their shows are
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: better than ours. So yeah, there you go, you'll like them.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: See you next time. Fix For more podcasts from my
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.