Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Pastor’s Perspective on The Religion Of Freemasonry

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Pastor’s Perspective on The Religion Of Freemasonry · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hey friends, welcome to another show.
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  Store.
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  We're going to be talking about cults and world religions, and what do other people, what
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  other religious groups believe, what are others, what do they teach, how does that contrast
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  with Christianity?
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  That is the show today, with Pastor John Pennell, we're going to be talking about free
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  masonry, its rituals, and false teachings that oppose biblical Christianity.
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  We'll examine briefly in the short time we have some of its history and explains the
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  Masonic Lodge's emphasis on oaths, symbols, good works, and there are even occult influences.
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  We'll contrast these with the Bible, we'll discuss and clarify some teachings, and so you're
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  not confused at all about what free masons believe and what the Bible teaches, and the
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  Lodge's emphasis on these symbols and good works.
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  So we're going to talk about that compared to the biblical worldview.
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  Pastor John Pennell is from Calvary Chapel Lakeville, Illinois.
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  He's been the senior pastor since 1999, CCLV streams praise and worship 24-7 along with
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  reading and teaching of God's word on the church radio station, which is WLGS locally
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  in that area, Northern Illinois, it's 101.5 FM.
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  And John also hosts the Cleansing Word podcast.
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  He and his wife Lilly have been married 44 years, they have two children, five grandchildren,
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  and John is a graduate of Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa School of Ministry.
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  He also spent 20 years as a brick mason.
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  Pastor John Pennell, welcome to Worldview Matters brother.
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  What a privilege to be with you once again, I guess in a different format, but with you
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  once again, and always a good to see you, David.
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  Yeah, people can see him in the ministry with you.
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  Yeah, me too, and I appreciate being able to come down to your church and visit.
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  They're kind of like another family for me.
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  We are family, right?
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  The body of Christ.
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  But let's talk briefly about how you're doing now.
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  For those of you that obviously don't know, John fell off a ladder and broke his neck.
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  And here he is, he's back in the pulpit preaching, he's doing this show, which I'm very thankful.
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  So John, tell us a little bit about that story and how you're doing.
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  Yeah, it wasn't too long ago on June 23rd, I was doing what you should never do cutting
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  a branch from a ladder.
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  And I've been working with my grandsons on the church ground for much of the day, and
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  this particular branch broke too early.
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  I didn't mean to cut it all the way through, but it had a mind of its own.
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  So I had a running chainsaw on my hand.
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  I had grandson standing near, so I didn't want to toss the chainsaw away.
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  So I leaped off the ladder while trying to put the chainsaw on the ground and leaping
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  over the chainsaw that I wouldn't get cut by it.
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  When I did that, I basically dove into the oak tree and I ended up fracturing my C2,
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  which the physical therapist told me a few weeks ago that it's nicknamed the hangman's
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  vertebrae.
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  The thick snap it just perfectly, they can kill you instantly.
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  Wow.
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  And if you are familiar with Christopher Reeves and the accident that he had, the Superman movie
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  guy, that is the same vertebrae that he broke.
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  Mine was a fracture only on one side, it was a stable fracture.
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  So that side of it's good, and I think the bone is all healed up.
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  I also bulged disc lower in my neck and I'm even after this show going to physical therapy
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  trying to get that worked out.
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  So the pain that I have now, I don't turn to the left to right too great, but I'm doing
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  really well.
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  It has to do more with the bulging disc than the fracture disc.
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  But I'm here and I was able to at the end of August get back into the pulpit and continue
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  to do ministry and very thankful for that.
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  Amazing.
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  Well, thank you for sharing that.
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  A lot of people are going, wow, breaking your neck, God obviously is not done with you
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  once you in the pulpit.
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  So we appreciate that, John, very much.
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  I want to ask you now about your dad.
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  Growing up, your dad was a free Mason.
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  So that's why I have Pastor John share this story and then we'll talk about some of
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  the doctrines because you grew up with some of this, share that story for our audience.
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  Yeah.
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  One of my favorite childhood memories is actually hanging out with my dad, not technically
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  with my dad.
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  He would go off and do his lodge meeting stuff, but in lodge 78 in Watkegan, Illinois, it
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  is the oldest lodge in the state of Illinois.
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  At the time, they had this huge or story building.
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  It reminds me if I think about it, you think about the television show slash movie of Dalton
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  Abbey and you're going into some of their great rooms that they had.
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  When you walked in this lodge and you went immediately to the right to what would be their
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  sitting room, it was like walking into a Dalton Abbey scene, a large fireplace.
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  At the end of the hall, many different chairs and and studying areas, not just one, but several
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  that this was just a grand old palace that is, I think they tore it down finally, but it was for
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  me, it was just a place to go and run around and go into the ballrooms and go into the secret rooms
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  of the Masonic order and to even go down to the basement where a lot of the fellowship and food
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  took place and the dinners that they would have and having pictures of all the past masters
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  of the lodge and even always finding my dad's picture as he was the master of that lodge
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  at one time as a 32nd degree mason.
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  And so yeah, I grew up around it and it's one of my favorite childhood memories, I should say,
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  and has nothing to do with ministry though. The other side of that is I grew up in the church
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  that taught the Bible, so I am thankful for that because the grounding of the Word of God
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  taps me from getting involved with the Masonic lodge when I was in adults.
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  So let's clarify something, John. Your dad was a free mason, he was a very active member of the
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  lodge and you were also going to a church that taught the Word of God. So was he taking you to
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  the church and he was also involved in the rituals and things there? Yeah, it's kind of confusing
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  for some, but my dad didn't go to church at all and my mom was saved when she was 16 and began
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  attending church when my older sisters were already birthed and on this earth and I wasn't born yet
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  and eventually dad began attending church with her, but in between all that before I was born,
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  dad became a member of the lodge in Waukegan and when he became a member, he swore on a Bible that
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  they gave him and they told him in this book, you will find all the answers to life. Years later,
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  my dad would testify that he did find the answer in his name as Jesus Christ, but my dad became a
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  member of the lodge before he became a believer in Jesus Christ and in the oddity of this whole thing,
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  God used the lodge to get my dad to faith. I think he was looking for something, you know, and I believe
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  that that is true to this day. I was watching a documentary on the Masonic lodge that's on
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  Amazon Prime right now and they were spending it in the positive, they were promoting the lodge
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  and one of the things I remember about that is that they were saying young men are looking
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  for order, they're looking for faith and they're finding it in the Masonic lodge. Well, they're
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  looking in the wrong place, but it really tells us something about the culture itself is that the
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  church is failing to raise up the culture to no price and they're looking and they're searching,
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  that's where my dad was, he was searching for some kind of faith, something to hold on onto,
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  he believed in God, but he just did not trust Christians early on because he saw the hypocrisy that
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  was in the church. But he became a pastor then, right? Where does that come in?
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  Oh, that comes in when he was in his mid-30s, he had a stroke and it was pioneer days
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  of heart surgery. So he spent six months in a hospital on the Thalphite of Chicago and mostly because
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  they're waiting to do this heart surgery, he had a negative for his blood type and they had to,
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  you know, if you're the universal, I have the same, you're the universal blood donor, but you can
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  only get a negative blood back. So twice they had prepped him for surgery, but twice there were
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  accidents that used that blood supply that they had set aside for my dad. And so they postponed
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  it twice and I believe, I'm looking back at this, I remember my dad's story and I, you know,
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  I can't put words into his mouth perfectly, but as I look at this, I believe God was waiting for
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  dad to say a prayer that he prayed before having heart surgery where he asked the Lord,
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  if you will make me as good a man as I am today after this surgery, I will serve you all the days of
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  my life. Two years later, dad was shaving on a Sunday morning looking in the mirror. I didn't have
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  a shirt on, but he saw the scar that actually began just under the right side of his chest and
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  went all the way back to the back. I mean, they opened him up a big time and it was a big scar,
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  it was a race scar. And when he looked at that scar that morning, he saw for him Noah's rainbow.
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  And then he heard the Lord say to him, I kept my bargain. Now you keep yours. Wow, that's
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  Sunday morning. He went to church. After the preaching was done, they had alter call. He went
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  forward and surrendered his life to Christ. And that same morning, the guy who became my dad's
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  song director also came forward and surrendered his life to Christ as a worship leader. We call
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  them worship leaders today. They didn't call it that per se that back then. And I remember
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  Doyle was his name, Saint of my dad, John, that you didn't have to do this because I came forward
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  and my dad said, this wasn't because of you. But God was working in two men's life.
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  Both logic members, which is really weird. Good last. But God got a hold of both of their hearts
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  on the same Sunday morning. They both surrendered to the Lord as same Sunday morning. And we can
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  say somewhat the rest is history as far as work for the Lord and Zion. Wow. Great story. I didn't
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  remember that story about his him looking at his scar. That's great. We've got to take a break.
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  We're with Pastor John Penel of Calvary Chapel Lake, Philly, Illinois. And we're going to contrast
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  some biblical doctrines with what the Freemasons believe and teach. But before we take a break,
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  I want to quote second Corinthians six, 16 and 17 because some people think, well, maybe I can
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  be a Christian and still be a Freemason. Let's read this verse and we'll come back. What agreement
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  can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God
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  has said, I will dwell with them and walk among them. I will be their God and they will be my people.
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  Therefore come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord, touch no unclean thing and
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  I will receive you. That's second Corinthians six, 16 and 17. We'll be right back on World View Matters.
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  We're with Pastor John Penel today. We're talking about Freemason. We've got a lot of experience
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  and knowledge about this topic to back it up. But I want to go right to the difference when it comes
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  to salvation, Pastor John. In Freemasonry, the very purpose of joining a lodge from what I'm reading
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  over at gotquestions.org requires apprentices to ignore the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Savior.
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  And they of course focus on good works in the pursuit of personal self-improvement and talking
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  about the degrees and becoming an active part in the Masonic community. It says a man can build
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  himself into a better man. And so that is not the view of the Bible. Jesus is the Savior and we
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  his shed blood is how we receive salvation, our faith in Christ alone. Share your thoughts on
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  this contrast when it comes to works versus being saved by grace and what the Bible teaches
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  compared to Freemasonry in salvation. So just yesterday my daughter and I were in one of the local
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  towns in our area and stopped by to get a cup of coffee and we were walking back to my truck and
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  she goes come here and look at this. And so we walked down to the corner and there was an old
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  what used to be a church building from the 1800s with a plaque on it from the historical
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  society. That old church building now in the Masonic order or some Masonic lodge. But on the
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  bottom of the plaque I took a picture of it that I I thought it was appropriate for what we're
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  talking about today. It said so this is the historical society talking about this lodge in their town
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  saying that the lodge is part of an international organization of free accepted masons whose mission is
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  to promote and community human welfare inspire acts of promoting benevolence charity and good will
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  toward all mankind. And you know I've fought on the subjects once at our church and wrote a paper
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  on this subject on a couple of podcasts on it. And I've been thinking about that the promoting
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  of charity and good works is something I can never remember are lodge that my dad and mom were part
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  of ever really doing. And they always had club things going on and perhaps they invited other people
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  to come and visit. But I never remember them ever being out in the community actually doing good
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  works in the community. So it's kind of bizarre to think about that. I can't pinpoint anything but
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  they do talk about good works and it depends on what lodge you might join and or what's the
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  allogen of the Masonic order that you might listen to some would say that the Masonic lodge is not
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  for salvation but others do say it's for salvation. The problem that I initially had
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  a lot of many but one is as I said my dad swore on a Bible it's kind of Bible that we use
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  when he became a lodge member but if he was of Islam he would have sworn on the Qur'an.
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  That's right. If he was you know Jewish he would swear on the Jewish our Old Testament but
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  it didn't really doesn't matter what God you believe in the thing is you have to believe in God
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  but it doesn't matter what God any God will do as far as the Mason's are concerned. That's right.
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  So the word of God tells us you shall have no other God before me and when you're a Mason you're
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  saying yeah but you know any God will do and so that is one thing that should just right at the
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  gift they'll say all right we need to stand back from this. Let's talk about that John because
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  for Freemasons all members just are required to believe in a deity but let's talk about their
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  view of the Bible because of course we believe it as the inspired perfect word of the living God
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  it is literally God breed and it is authoritative in all areas of life that's what we believe that
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  Bible is God's word. Freemasonry they believe the Bible is only one of seven commonly used volumes
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  of sacred law they consider that V SL volumes of sacred laws all of which are deemed equally
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  important and here's a quote the holy book of any religion may be used as a volume of sacred law
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  provided that it teaches and its adherence believe in a supreme being. John your comments on that
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  because I know that they believe in the great or grand architect of the universe GAOTU that
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  is representative of all gods and religions to the Freemasons so that's a pretty big distinction
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  right there as far as their view of the Bible and its authority. Yeah I just smile at the great
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  architect in the sky they will call that and I actually interviewed one of my dad's ludge brothers
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  and just talk to him about the Masonic Lodge several years ago this man has since passed on
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  and they tie I mean he just flat blank looked at me and say we can tie our origin all the way back
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  to Solomon's temple and the building of Solomon's temple well it doesn't quite go all the way back
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  to that we can trace it back to Europe in the 1700s and even earlier than that as far as
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  the trade gills that formed out of that to me I look at it and I was a 20 year brick Mason so
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  I actually know how to lay brick and so it's kind of a union gun wild and when they began to
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  bring in other members because the Greek cathedrals were no longer being built the great castles
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  were no longer being built they allowed those who did not know how to actually lay stone or
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  break or the laborers connected to that be part of their lodge they brought them in and then it
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  really expanded to all of this what has become what we know of as the Masonic Lodge today as I
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  said to them any God will do but the word of God tells us in Galatians 1A that but if we or an angel
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  from heaven preached any other gospel to you then what we have preached to you allowed him be
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  a first and it's other gospels when they present another God from another religion it's another
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  gospel and we should not have anything to do with it so let's briefly talk next and we're
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  gosh this is going by fast as I knew it would their view of Jesus the Bible's view of course
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  Jesus is the way he was the word that became flesh and dwelt among us john 114 he is God he was
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  with God in the beginning all things were created through him and for him for Jesus he is the second
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  person of the Trinity is fully human and fully divine but free masons believe there is no exclusivity
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  in Jesus or the triune God who is the father son of the Holy Spirit and they equate Jesus to
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  persons in pagan religions according to gotquestions.org so john pennell the exclusivity of Jesus Christ
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  and salvation through him that's a pretty big doctrine that I would say a non-negotiable for
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  Christians so your thoughts on that so we'll go back to the lodges mostly in the United States
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  most of the lodges in the United States do use the Bible that we are accustomed to it's always
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  sitting on the altar of my dad's friend told me whenever they're doing any kind of ceremony
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  but the unique thing about that like if they were quoting first Peter 2.5 which at the end of
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  first Peter 2.5 it says that we are holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to
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  God through Jesus Christ well they'll drop off the through Jesus Christ they'll just say
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  acceptable to God that became a sticking point because initially after my dad became a pastor
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  and they were able to build a church and the church was growing he kind of became a celebrity
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  from lay county Illinois all the way to keep county Illinois into Chicago but the problem is
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  that he used the platform with his Mason brothers or the Shriners and he preached Jesus Christ
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  and that drove them crazy because he would come in and preach the name of Jesus which they did not
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  like to use the name of Jesus so actually it caused my dad's diminish
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  his popularity diminished because he would not refrain from using the name of Jesus
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  and I think it actually closed doors for him which is fine yeah he shouldn't have been involved
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  with it anyways but yeah so they have the Bible but they don't use the name of Jesus
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  wow they were spraying from using the name of Jesus but I to be honest with you a lot of the
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  members of the church I grew up with were Mason and I wonder how much of an influence that had on
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  my life the teaching sitting in Sunday school having the male Sunday school teacher teaching the
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  voice how much influence did that have I I don't know but I can't help but think that there was a
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  little Masonic spend going on maybe in some of that teaching back then so it kind of makes me look
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  back and wonder upon those early days of my life yeah and there's so much friends that we could be
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  talking about here there the Mason's are really up on symbols and like the square and the compass
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  the letter G is very symbolic and important with the free Mason's also the all-seeing I which is
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  on the back of the dollar bill and it's on our money and there's a lot of rumors I think
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  unprovable that some of our founders were free Mason's now some of them might have been I mean
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  that there's some speculation involved so we can't go there that's for another time but let's
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  just contrast again their view with with the Bible teachers and we know from the word of God all
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  humans are born with a sinful nature we need a savior all have sinned and have fallen short of
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  the glory of God so free Masonry believes that through these symbols and emblems Mason's
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  teacher that man is not sinful but in a process of self-improvement and again that's where the
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  works I guess comes into improve yourself improve yourself John your quick thoughts on that
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  yeah it's actually they're trying to build the spiritual side of man more and more going through
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  the different degrees and the physical side of man kind of gets to that point where the physical
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  man is being overtaken by the spiritual of course if you're lacking Jesus Christ then what spirits
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  are you building on good question we know in this world that there are many spirits in this world
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  but there's only one Holy Spirit and it's through the Holy Spirit of God that he draws us to Jesus
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  Christ to show us that Jesus is as you said the way the truth in the life and that no man can come
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  to the Father except through him and so only one way to God not through the Masonic lodge not
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  through other religions but through faith in Jesus Christ so John we have done several shows on
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  this in the past audio radio shows we're going to probably have to pick this up and maybe
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  continue the conversation there's so much mystery and so much involved in free Masonry but thank
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  you for your time I just want to conclude with what got questions says and maybe get your quick
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  thoughts they say when a Christian takes the oath of free Masonry he is swearing to the following
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  doctrines that God has pronounced false number one salvation can be gained by man's good works
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  number two Jesus is just one of many equally wise prophets three he approaches the lodge in spiritual
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  darkness and ignorance number four the great or grand architect of the universe represents all
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  religions and got questions concludes by saying Masonry contradicts the clear teaching of scripture
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  on numerous issues as a result a Christian should not be a member of any organization
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  that has any connection with free Masonry John you're closing thoughts on that point
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  well the one thing he comes to the lodge in spiritual darkness that was something that I read
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  as well from some other source and if you're a Christian you have the light of Christ in your life
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  and you are not in darkness you have been actually saved from the darkness into the light of faith
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  and so right there should be it's just a big red flag we can't do this we need to walk away from it
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  and that's what really saved me my dad asked me to join the lodge but I realized that it was
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  contrary to the things of faith that I had learned and I could not do such a thing
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  John thanks for your time today Pastor John Pennell, Calvary Chapel Lakeville, Illinois friends
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  we appreciate it tomorrow we've got Pastor David Roth he's a pastor in Green Bay where I'll be
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  speaking he will be speaking Carl Kirby at the Men of Iron Conference that's on October 14
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  God bless you and as always keep speaking the truth about things that matter
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  you