Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the magnificent Toby Hadoke about his choice of The Silence in the Library (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to the magnificent Toby Hadoke about his choice of The Silence in the Library (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Welcome back to handsome with a
• 0:41
  blunt penknife the Doctor Who coming free podcast.
• 0:46
  Now, I would say back by popular demand, but given that, I guess,
• 0:50
  though is probably the most popular podcast or out there in
• 0:54
  the Doctor Who Universe don't give me that.
• 0:55
  Look, I'm gonna sort of. Welcome Back mr.
• 0:58
  Toby hey, don't how you doing tonight, hello.
• 1:00
  I see your debate. You're lying out of kindness,
• 1:03
  but I feel like I feel like the Michael sheared of podcast, you
• 1:06
  know, in the 90s that wasn't the Doctor Who convention that
• 1:09
  didn't have Michael. It said thing I've got nothing
• 1:11
  but I people see another podcast.
• 1:13
  Oh, God not him again. I listen to them.
• 1:17
  All, you've got three on-the-go, haven't you?
• 1:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:23
  Happy Times of places, which is a jolly.
• 1:25
  I positively inclined episode commentary because much like
• 1:30
  forums, you know, you don't when forums were a new thing, and
• 1:34
  that you'd go on like-minded, people talking about the thing
• 1:37
  that they enjoy it, dived into it.
• 1:39
  Oh no, it's not sad. Angry people say a terrible
• 1:41
  things and that hat, that, you know, I've found that with a few
• 1:47
  podcasts wet because it's I think it's quite easy to, to be
• 1:53
  to be critical. And actually, it's quite fun to
• 1:55
  be critical as well. And there's some great humor to
• 1:58
  be had doctors expense, but I just remembered how much I did
• 2:01
  Joy doing running through corridors with, with Rob
• 2:03
  Sherman, which was his idea to do something, where we just
• 2:06
  accentuate the positive. So I thought, well, I'll try and
• 2:09
  I'll try and do. That just try and fuel it
• 2:12
  through through love to give somebody something positive
• 2:15
  because it was during the pandemic as well.
• 2:17
  So, you know, trick to try and just keep it upbeat and then
• 2:21
  there's too much information, which is, you know, Autumn all
• 2:24
  facts. Ordinary, isn't it?
• 2:27
  Every piece of what? Yeah, yeah.
• 2:32
  Put into scripting those. Yeah, the whole point of them,
• 2:34
  all of these projects was that we're supposed to be something I
• 2:37
  could sort of rattle off whilst getting on with my life.
• 2:39
  Life and now they've style there.
• 2:42
  It's insane. And it sounds like I was being
• 2:48
  negative about other doctors who podcast there, I didn't I didn't
• 2:51
  mean that I think I just it was more about that because the
• 2:53
  subreddit and I listened to nodes now because I listened to,
• 2:56
  you know, I feel one should support the cause and there's so
• 2:58
  many great and creative things out there.
• 3:00
  I think I just it was just that I wanted to really accentuate.
• 3:03
  The positive about about the stories and heard you.
• 3:08
  Are you you catch yourself? Out sometimes because you'll be
• 3:11
  talking about and you'll be going down to negative part and
• 3:13
  then your oh hang on that subject people's to yeah.
• 3:17
  Yeah. Because I think it and I and
• 3:19
  this is nothing to do with Doctor Who fans actually.
• 3:21
  This is to do with my sort of day job as a comedian.
• 3:25
  I've sensed there's a currency in sort of cynicism these days
• 3:30
  and, and comedy at its best, you know, deconstructs the powerful
• 3:34
  and takes down ass, you know, assumed truths or whatever.
• 3:38
  And that, and that could be great for comedy.
• 3:39
  But I think that if that's not careful that can just
• 3:42
  metamorphose into people moaning about everything or rather all
• 3:46
  being a bit smug about something that's cool.
• 3:49
  What's the Sun? A part from a bloom in Orange
• 3:51
  ball? What's that?
• 3:52
  Like, you know, you something you can make us some and I think
• 3:55
  when so there's a bit because I love the dock to is so reverent
• 3:59
  from when I was a kid. But all these people were God's
• 4:01
  to me the idea that you just go, it's a load of old rubbish.
• 4:05
  Now when fans do it slightly different because we do it from
• 4:07
  a point of affection, I think it's a Doomed that, we like it
• 4:11
  in the first place but we seek is a but I think I was very
• 4:13
  defensive because I was growing up in a time when people would
• 4:17
  go on telly, who clearly didn't watch Doctor Who.
• 4:19
  So, you have rubbish Doctor, Who was and as we know it was a
• 4:23
  miracle that doctor got made and it's created cultural
• 4:26
  iconography that has lasted decades and will Outlast any
• 4:30
  sort of dismissive comedian. So when I, when I see, how do
• 4:33
  you think, are we over that that feeling it's probably Fused into
• 4:40
  my DNA, which means I overreact. So, so I that's never Escape it.
• 4:46
  I don't know. I think, I think, you know, with
• 4:49
  future developments of the TV show, you know, it's going to
• 4:53
  start embedding itself in Consciousness again, and be
• 4:55
  talking about in a much more positive way.
• 4:57
  So, I hope so. I hope so.
• 5:01
  I mean, it's going to be quite a good way of if you haven't
• 5:03
  already. Got a got a Raider to weed out
• 5:07
  people. You really don't need to have a
• 5:08
  conversation with this. Anybody goes oh it's woke now
• 5:11
  because there happens to be a black man in it that it should
• 5:14
  have so many. Yeah, I mean I actually wrote a
• 5:18
  whole podcast about the reaction to shooting at what and in the
• 5:22
  end I didn't use it because I had I'm just trying to instead I
• 5:27
  just want what I want with anything, I do as I get older
• 5:32
  and because the third podcast, I do is a thing called, what's it
• 5:35
  called indefinable Magic and it tries to sort of muse on an
• 5:38
  aspect of doctor. Is with anything.
• 5:40
  I want to do, if you find yourself, sometimes get carried
• 5:42
  away, trying to settle scores, because that's what we do on
• 5:45
  Twitter, somebody says something wrong because it's written down.
• 5:47
  It seems official. So our instinct is to go.
• 5:49
  I've got to, I've got a right that wrong.
• 5:51
  That's the worst thing to do. I always say, wait, step away
• 5:55
  and come back in two hours later and either respond or better,
• 5:57
  still don't, and never going to convince that person never gonna
• 6:01
  go just so. So, I thought the only thing one
• 6:05
  could actually add or do in these circumstances is to make
• 6:09
  something. That makes people happy that to
• 6:13
  if you encounter somebody to make their day better not worse.
• 6:16
  After you've encountered them and I'm still gonna screw that.
• 6:19
  I'm still going to encourage people to think of a brick or
• 6:22
  don't like what I've said or disagree with my opinion, but if
• 6:25
  that's what I try to do, I can at least sleep at night, you
• 6:28
  know, I got a tweet, two days ago from a guy saying that from
• 6:34
  January the first he'd listen to every episode, I put out as
• 6:39
  Seventy six episodes. Wow.
• 6:42
  And he'd been going through a terrible time and that was his
• 6:46
  one point in the day. Beautiful.
• 6:49
  I was like, you know rights, tie-dye no clue that you could
• 6:52
  touch something like that. No, that's that's a lovely thing
• 6:55
  about the podcasting thing. And I slightly had an insight
• 7:00
  into that because before I did the podcast, my comedy club,
• 7:03
  excess Malarkey, went online because we live every Tuesday
• 7:06
  night in Manchester. We certainly couldn't because
• 7:08
  nobody could leave the house. Immediately went online.
• 7:11
  And what I hadn't thought of, in all the whole, how do we get
• 7:14
  comedians to do their set online?
• 7:16
  How do we do this? What's the practicality?
• 7:17
  Will people watch because they've got Netflix.
• 7:20
  Oh, why would they watch a live comedy show?
• 7:22
  But I hadn't anticipated was actually people like being part
• 7:25
  of something at the same time which I hadn't anticipated but
• 7:28
  also they felt a connection and part of a community and I hadn't
• 7:34
  realized that at all and that that was quite humbling.
• 7:36
  And again we have no intention to do that.
• 7:39
  What we did was to let's put on a good show and try and be funny
• 7:42
  and I did that you can aim to do that.
• 7:44
  But it's a it's a it's a very nice byproduct that reminds you
• 7:48
  that actually there's more that unites Us in this fractured
• 7:51
  world if we want them to be and actually also how lucky we are.
• 7:56
  Because a lot of people out there don't have that kind of
• 7:59
  infrastructure or that family unit, will that friendship group
• 8:02
  and if you end up being their extended family or friendship
• 8:06
  group or contact, that's a really nice thing.
• 8:09
  The thing, About having a podcast where you have a
• 8:11
  different guest on each time. The thing I didn't anticipate
• 8:15
  was that those people would form a community which they have and
• 8:19
  they've started calling themselves to hand Fab.
• 8:21
  There's like there's like when someone new comes in there's
• 8:25
  like 30 50 people working in the mid and then they're going off
• 8:29
  and meeting each other. Oh great draw Daenerys, an
• 8:32
  extraordinary thing, the dogs who Community?
• 8:34
  I think it is, it is and I think it's easy to always continue no
• 8:38
  obsess about Out the more malevolent B, because obviously,
• 8:42
  they're the most noticeable. But, actually, they're noticed
• 8:45
  also because they're, they're, they're the exception of a
• 8:49
  northern that as we know the loudest voices, that, you know,
• 8:52
  are often the ones that you D to ignore it.
• 8:56
  All of all of that sort of stuff, but that actually, most
• 8:59
  of it is, is really good. Well, interestingly, before we
• 9:04
  head into the story, one of the tweets I had today, can I put
• 9:07
  this out Twitter? Was that somebody My two
• 9:11
  favorite podcasters who both do commentaries are coming together
• 9:15
  to talk about my favorite episode of Doctor Who has
• 9:18
  husband's come early. Oh God.
• 9:20
  Nothing to live up to here at all.
• 9:22
  No pressure. I think that the story that
• 9:29
  we're talking about say which we haven't mentioned yet is like
• 9:33
  the peak of kind of Doctor Who popularity season 4 of the new
• 9:37
  series maybe season 5 as well. Series.
• 9:40
  Sorry. I think this is probably where
• 9:42
  Doctor Who was his biggest. Yeah, we're gonna look what Sean
• 9:49
  is the library and Forest of the dead and eye-opening opinions
• 9:53
  from you. Before we go in, I love it but
• 9:59
  I'm still don't know if I've quite got an angle.
• 10:01
  I remember it feeling like a slight anomaly at the time.
• 10:05
  And I think that's because the more fat stories by that point
• 10:10
  came with such pressure occasion, such high,
• 10:14
  expectations and such pressure that I remember being really
• 10:18
  excited by the end of it going. All right, that wasn't what I
• 10:21
  expected and I don't quite know that was, especially as he does
• 10:24
  that switch halfway. Through which became a bit of a
• 10:27
  trademark with some of his two partners that, you know, where
• 10:31
  part to doesn't really pick up quite where part one left off
• 10:34
  and has a real change in tone. And and it took me, sort of
• 10:37
  revisiting it, not long later during two or three weeks later.
• 10:42
  Do because that was a time when an episode came out.
• 10:45
  And I watched it, almost immediately.
• 10:47
  Oh, yeah. And then a week later and just
• 10:50
  going and actually you know, Weeping at the Den you more in.
• 10:55
  In my, in my stepsons bedroom. This was I remember exactly
• 11:00
  where I was and we were watching it together and just going home.
• 11:04
  This is so good. And there are so many things
• 11:08
  that we could talk about that are brilliant about it, but it's
• 11:10
  still, it's still one that I feel is slightly set apart.
• 11:14
  Whether it's totally or whether it's because of the story that's
• 11:17
  being told or whether it's just because it's a mob back.
• 11:19
  Within, a Russell T Davies season, it, I'm still not quite
• 11:23
  sure how to categorize it. Ironically.
• 11:26
  Seeing as it's the one that's set in a library.
• 11:29
  I don't know what she'll fight, put it up if I was having to
• 11:31
  genre, it's, you know what I mean?
• 11:34
  But I and I haven't seen it for a while and I'm looking, I'm
• 11:39
  looking forward to watching it. I this is a weird one because I
• 11:44
  feel the first episode is probably the closest.
• 11:49
  It's not as slow as the classic Who but it is a lot about
• 11:53
  atmosphere character. Our and setting up the the
• 11:58
  Menace, like a classic episode one would do and then episode 2.
• 12:04
  It's just one idea after another as a furious Pace.
• 12:07
  It's absolutely a new series story and it's, yeah, good
• 12:09
  things at once I think is extraordinary.
• 12:13
  Yeah, I think we should watch it okey-dokey, right?
• 12:19
  So yeah. Do you want to count as him?
• 12:22
  Okay, I'm going to press play in three. 21 of week.
• 12:29
  Our is it silence in the library?
• 12:32
  A great title because it's silence in the library and it's
• 12:37
  silent to the library. Oh and I remember when the cast
• 12:43
  was announced for this as well because doc as you say Doctor
• 12:46
  Who was riding as high as one could possibly imagine more
• 12:51
  higher than one could possibly have imagined at this time.
• 12:54
  I think the casting of Catherine Tate It gave, it gave people
• 12:58
  outside of you know, in the real world, an extra boost of
• 13:02
  attentiveness, it seemed like everything was going right with
• 13:05
  Doctor. Who at this time, you know, how
• 13:08
  sort of the the rating average for series 4 is still like that.
• 13:12
  I feel like it was getting deep. Very good ratings.
• 13:14
  Anyway, Catherine, Tate just edged it up a little.
• 13:17
  Yeah. Which considering how it started
• 13:20
  and been more successful than we could have imagined the fact
• 13:22
  that the trajectory was up like you know it's a you kept it.
• 13:26
  Expecting the bubble to burst or something.
• 13:27
  To go wrong with a novelty to. Where are you going?
• 13:29
  Oh, this is getting, this is getting better, this is a
• 13:33
  brilliant premise, but the fact that Colin salmon was in it, you
• 13:38
  know, who was in the Bond movies and really Prestige casting as
• 13:45
  well as Alex Kingston, Steve Pemberton.
• 13:47
  You know you're suddenly going and I love, I love I love the
• 13:51
  pacing of the in a bursting through doors exciting music,
• 13:54
  shutting the doors, keeping the thing out.
• 13:55
  It's bread and butter Doctor Who but that wonderful thing and
• 13:59
  then later on how they explain from the doctor and Donna's
• 14:02
  point of view how they got there.
• 14:04
  And yes. Okay.
• 14:05
  Well actually look like which is that floating ball isn't yeah.
• 14:08
  Yeah and because you're at the end of episode 1, you still got
• 14:12
  no idea what the hell is going on with the seemingly, very
• 14:15
  nice. Dad, the very lovely
• 14:17
  understanding dr. Moon who doesn't seem like a bad
• 14:20
  guy? Actually, brilliantly.
• 14:21
  Isn't a bad going thing. Is this is this girl being held
• 14:24
  prisoner. Is the something malevolent go?
• 14:26
  And actually it's a really touching a human story that he
• 14:29
  told it back until about two thirds in.
• 14:32
  Yeah yeah and trusts you to go with it and and every time you
• 14:37
  think we're well I don't know what you think but I remember
• 14:39
  when it goes wrong and she turns it off and lose it and you go
• 14:42
  not. So she is she's not imagining.
• 14:45
  This is an interactive part of, it's not it yet.
• 14:48
  It's not a dream, she is directly influenced by or
• 14:52
  reacting to what's going that. There is some Movement, but
• 14:56
  without you, it's not guessable, it's not guessable.
• 14:59
  And I don't know what a doctor moon is, but that reveal makes
• 15:03
  absolute sense. But that's that's all later this
• 15:07
  whole this setting, where they've shot this, the CGI,
• 15:11
  they've added. Yeah, I mean in a lens flare
• 15:14
  there as well. That's gorgeous.
• 15:15
  I never would have expected those who'd.
• 15:17
  Come on visuals like this. No, it's extraordinary, isn't
• 15:20
  it? And I think Catherine eddowes I
• 15:24
  was no big fat Earth. Catherine Tate.
• 15:26
  I wasn't, I dislike her either but I watched a few of our
• 15:29
  shows. Thought.
• 15:30
  Yeah. She's great.
• 15:31
  She's obviously very, you know, talented performer of a
• 15:34
  particular kind of Comedy so I, you know, I wasn't like, oh,
• 15:38
  it's amazing. It's got a for the status of who
• 15:40
  she was. I was excited that she was in
• 15:42
  doctor who pulled the rug out on the everybody, though, doesn't
• 15:46
  she? I think Rusty Davis was like,
• 15:47
  we're gonna give her the most astonishing material you can
• 15:53
  deliver. Yeah, I thought she was fun in
• 15:55
  The Runaway Bride. Ride and a bit of a revelation
• 15:57
  because okay, stir. And then when she came back and
• 16:00
  you remember where I was when I found out she was going to be
• 16:02
  the new companion and I thought this is amazing because you've
• 16:05
  had because she's a slightly older woman with ginger hair who
• 16:12
  is is not as not somebody that you know it's the truth.
• 16:19
  She's a she's a normal-looking person and I have to say in
• 16:24
  today's television where Producers and casting directors,
• 16:27
  rightly are proud of their record of improving diversity,
• 16:33
  on-screen diversity of body shape.
• 16:35
  I think they're miles behind and I think the expectations are,
• 16:39
  what people are supposed to look like on television is positively
• 16:43
  backward in many regards. So the fact, you have somebody
• 16:46
  perfectly ordinary. Looking, who is going to be an
• 16:52
  inspiration for young girls? Ocular me because the female
• 16:56
  companion figure, you know, traditionally that I remember
• 17:00
  thinking that's really positive. That's so, that's a really bad.
• 17:03
  Does it make? And then the fact that she
• 17:04
  turned out to be not only funny but the bits in that Pompey
• 17:08
  episode where she's begging here, you do this this she could
• 17:12
  do anything this woman. I think she's great.
• 17:14
  You're honestly I've in Planet of the Ood when she's crying at
• 17:17
  that dude. In the cell in turn left when
• 17:20
  she gives that incredible speech.
• 17:22
  When she's a circle, she's so She really is good.
• 17:27
  Jay and he was you say about comedians, of course, are great
• 17:30
  actors, you know, like, well I like to think so, I wouldn't
• 17:34
  argue, I would not get well, I've always argued actually, and
• 17:38
  this, this, this just slightly sad, like, I bitching, but I
• 17:42
  think if you're a good Shakespearean actor or a good
• 17:45
  comedian, you could do doctor because both of those have our
• 17:49
  comedians, have to have the lightness of touch
• 17:51
  Shakespearean. Actors have to make very
• 17:53
  difficult Concepts and sometimes It's nonsensical sounding words
• 17:58
  have a grandiosity about them because science fiction has to
• 18:02
  be quite large. But to filter it through and
• 18:04
  make it understandable and make it follow Able by a general
• 18:08
  audience. I think the mixture of
• 18:09
  Shakespeare and stand-up is the ideal combination for a doctor
• 18:13
  who performed from Star Trek behind the scenes give
• 18:16
  interviews and say you know I'm so glad I had all that training
• 18:20
  was Shakespeare because now I'm speaking all this Star Trek
• 18:23
  technobabble you know, it's exactly what you would just.
• 18:26
  Yeah. What they couldn't manufacture
• 18:28
  though was the chemistry between David Tennant and Catherine
• 18:31
  Tate. Yeah.
• 18:32
  And I think that is probably the best the new series has given
• 18:37
  us. I think, in this story in
• 18:39
  particular, some of the things towards the end of the story
• 18:42
  when they're back together. For me, it's as good as Tom
• 18:46
  Baker and his bus Laden at the hi.
• 18:49
  Yeah, they are. They're great and they're their
• 18:52
  mates but but also she's He's, you know, this is she learns
• 18:58
  from the benevolent intelligent Time, Lord?
• 19:00
  But she is, it's the Leela trick of making somebody not
• 19:04
  necessarily have the knowledge and the experience, but not
• 19:07
  patronize them. As a result, still make them
• 19:10
  thoughtful and inventive. And, you know, again, Donna is
• 19:14
  the sort of character that most writers would use to be the butt
• 19:20
  of a joke. She's a slightly, self-absorbed
• 19:23
  and ambitious. The office working in it.
• 19:29
  Often of the type of person, particularly female person very
• 19:33
  patronized by writers set up as a joke character.
• 19:37
  But, but where Russell T Davies. I think you're so clever.
• 19:40
  And we think we're talking off mic before about Jackie.
• 19:42
  Tyler is that another kind of character who would be
• 19:45
  patronized by a lot of writers for the sake of moving up?
• 19:48
  Is it up? You know, that Russell actually
• 19:50
  loves these people? It's not patronizing them.
• 19:53
  He's not that there are jokes that there.
• 19:54
  Spence and they do jokes at other peoples expense but he is
• 19:57
  such a celebrator of knife and of the potential of people and
• 20:02
  of anybody that I think that is really refreshing.
• 20:06
  We all know you know, middle middle aged middle class men who
• 20:10
  find depths in themselves in TV. Dramas, you see that all of the
• 20:13
  time but the idea that often neglected people or who, if they
• 20:18
  do, it's always slightly patronizingly done.
• 20:21
  So, it's doodle. Somebody working class has
• 20:23
  learnt to read, aren't they marvelous?
• 20:24
  List. Whereas, with Russell, it's
• 20:26
  different from that. It's a celebration of those
• 20:28
  people on their own terms. Don't know.
• 20:30
  I would probably hate in real life.
• 20:32
  She's fucked his self because I've often heard dr.
• 20:37
  I love everything, she brings, talk to you.
• 20:39
  If I knew this person it was, you know, overly opinionated
• 20:41
  loud in your face. Yeah.
• 20:44
  Yeah. It would be unbearable.
• 20:45
  And he, and I did many ways. She's Griffith.
• 20:49
  She's a grotesquely nice. She's a great test narcissist
• 20:53
  but he didn't. Oh, there's massive depth, our
• 20:56
  character. Well, that's that's good.
• 20:58
  I mean, she's a brilliant performance.
• 20:59
  Super, that's good writer. That's the Russell T Davies
• 21:03
  approach. Are you always using an example
• 21:04
  with Russell? I know this is written by Muffin
• 21:06
  really, look at a lot of his, the amazing stuff that he does
• 21:08
  in this. I use as an example when I
• 21:10
  talked to Russell about midnight and I said, oh yeah, that's a
• 21:14
  great start with dr. Who lands on the planet of the
• 21:16
  Daily Mail people and Russell could really easily have taken
• 21:19
  up that joke. That dog, that did it go?
• 21:21
  Yeah. Yeah, that was all about mob
• 21:22
  Rule and aren't these people or for that, they To people about
• 21:25
  and he said, well, no, actually, because to those people what the
• 21:30
  doctor was coming across as exactly what they thought he was
• 21:32
  an arrogant, Metropolitan Aleppo, and Russell refused to
• 21:36
  go. Those people in Midnight are all
• 21:38
  awful people that I was satirizing for their mob rule
• 21:41
  mentality. He had he had affection for them
• 21:44
  all. He understood where they all
• 21:45
  come came from. He helped set them up to be bad,
• 21:49
  you know, he doesn't look down on his character's, no recounted
• 21:52
  only because of like that sort of person.
• 21:54
  Here, I am not a person who understands where they're coming
• 21:58
  from and it makes it much more interesting drama.
• 22:02
  But what about whether he would, like, Donna Noble or not?
• 22:05
  Is he gets a whole season, the players and the material, a
• 22:09
  giver is 0 this world. Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:14
  And it never ceases to be fun, they're obviously having that I
• 22:17
  love the pace of this. That who I loved the sort of
• 22:24
  Sitting down running down corridors bounding through
• 22:27
  doors. They completely understand that.
• 22:28
  That's that's sort of breathtaking, your other running
• 22:31
  towards Adventurer, running away from danger.
• 22:34
  But but it, and I was watching something last night that was on
• 22:37
  brick box. That was an old drama.
• 22:40
  And and I think I've been influenced by NYPD Blue, or some
• 22:43
  of those and the camera would stop bloody moving was all this
• 22:46
  sort of slightly handheld. I don't, I wanted, I wanted to
• 22:49
  tell the director to sod off about 15 minutes in because I
• 22:53
  was, I hate this. I love I'm running arguing with
• 22:55
  me, I've got a Star Trek, a podcast where we cover the
• 22:58
  breadth of Star Trek as commentaries.
• 23:00
  And when we watch the new Star Trek with the drones zoom in
• 23:04
  around the sets and there's a long-standing joke that I
• 23:07
  prefer, the more stately camerawork of 90s or even
• 23:09
  original series tray. I agree with you.
• 23:12
  It's dizzying, it's distracting. Where is this relevant?
• 23:15
  Italy has that. It has that paste in.
• 23:17
  It has that breakfast. It has that ever.
• 23:19
  But, but the, but not with that Gideon sort of camera, where Is
• 23:25
  too hard is still. And I love the fact that she's
• 23:29
  so, you know, they look at the idea of what these these facial
• 23:33
  drone things are in. She's going, oh, that's
• 23:35
  actually, and that's what you would be, like, you've been.
• 23:37
  So, that's somebody's face, Mafia is brilliant, science
• 23:41
  fiction ideas like that. Do you know that faith on a pole
• 23:46
  thing? They could have done that in
• 23:47
  classic who could make quite sure?
• 23:48
  Just have someone's head inside that and I love it with the new
• 23:51
  series does that. Yeah, yeah.
• 23:56
  What do you what do you think about?
• 23:58
  Okay. So the villain in this is yeah,
• 24:02
  these Shadows essentially. Yeah.
• 24:04
  So it's different Mafia, taking a very simple idea and making
• 24:09
  something absolutely chilling out of it just like statues.
• 24:13
  Just like forgetting things, you know.
• 24:15
  Yeah, it is. Well, that's pretty, doesn't it.
• 24:18
  It's, it's a trademark of his that I think buys into something
• 24:23
  that I think completely. Understands Doctor Who and how
• 24:28
  it works. The, the, the foot.
• 24:32
  You see, when you're hiding under the bed, the crack in the
• 24:35
  wall, the statue, a gas mask, it's all stuff.
• 24:39
  That's not only sort of ordinary but spooky, but also ordinary
• 24:43
  from childhood something, a childhood nightmare writ large.
• 24:47
  And I think he's so good at doing that shadows, and he talks
• 24:50
  about the little bits of dust in than, in the, in the light, you
• 24:54
  know, that, that is him. Is a childhood thing.
• 24:57
  How do I make it a doctor who monster?
• 24:59
  What do you absolutely get? Is how kids can actually play
• 25:02
  with this in their real lives. Someplace statues, very easy.
• 25:06
  Yeah, this Shadows around you all the bloody time.
• 25:09
  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely gorgeous really
• 25:13
  smart. He's so good at that shadows.
• 25:18
  I'm surprised they didn't doing classic dogs.
• 25:21
  Who, you know? It's yeah it's funny isn't it?
• 25:25
  She She was married to Elon Musk twice, who's that?
• 25:28
  Mister fancy. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:32
  So we've got all of the guest characters.
• 25:35
  Appearing now, quite late into the story as well.
• 25:38
  Yes, yes. And the first, can I give you an
• 25:43
  insight as to why you should never listen to anything?
• 25:46
  I say about Doctor Who and I haven't got a clue what I'm
• 25:49
  talking about with regards to anything.
• 25:51
  And this this was a time when everybody was watching.
• 25:55
  To. So my my comedy club I go on a
• 25:57
  Tuesday, I'd usually refer to the episode on stage but people
• 26:00
  would come up. It was in the air, people come
• 26:02
  up and talk to me. Remember, Rachel, one of our
• 26:04
  regular punches to? I still see.
• 26:06
  Most juice dispenser sent me a message after this was over
• 26:10
  going. So what are the other River Song
• 26:13
  stories? Now we do know that there aren't
• 26:16
  any. They said, oh, well, can we look
• 26:18
  forward to some more and I went? No.
• 26:20
  No, the whole point of that story is that her story is told
• 26:24
  with, in this store, Three, we will never see her again.
• 26:27
  All of this. All of this happens off stage
• 26:31
  from now on. We see the doctor M, we've seen
• 26:33
  a doctor loser. The rest of it is noises off.
• 26:36
  It's a tragedy that we will never see.
• 26:39
  The beauty is in the unspoken. We do not need to see the rest
• 26:42
  of it is. All that you will never see her
• 26:44
  again. I am gonna want to fucking
• 26:46
  Maura. I genuinely thought it was.
• 26:53
  It was You had everything you needed there, you know what I
• 26:57
  mean? And the, the whole tragedy was
• 26:59
  what, we could imagine these beautiful things that they did
• 27:04
  off because the story was complete was complete.
• 27:07
  You're one of the reasons why I find this, the ultimate Steven
• 27:09
  Moffat script. The story is, I can't think of
• 27:11
  another story that has gained so much weight by what came after
• 27:17
  what came after. Yeah, till the husbands of river
• 27:21
  song, We're literally that is leading into This in what a
• 27:25
  perfect group. Yes.
• 27:27
  Yeah. And even some of the DVD extras
• 27:29
  where he, you know, he fills in the gaps as a couple.
• 27:32
  Isn't there are one of the later ones where because I have to say
• 27:36
  I love this and I love the way that Miss Evangelista is a bit
• 27:40
  thick and they're all a bit mean to her and as a really
• 27:42
  interesting career it really is, she's inside the sort of VR
• 27:47
  world and so yeah very small yeah about how she's treated.
• 27:51
  Yeah absolutely. There's a lot there that I I
• 27:54
  found very moving about, how? Because I'm I think the way that
• 27:58
  I think we often let ourselves down in the way that we treat
• 28:01
  other people and I mean, are we putting kiss crying in the park?
• 28:05
  I so I feel the sting of how she feels so out of her depth and I
• 28:12
  think it's I think it's really sweet sweetly and sensitively.
• 28:16
  Done actually with some great with with great economy and I
• 28:20
  like all of these characters Harry peacock, Ray bloody
• 28:24
  Duchess, what really shocks me was Steve Pemberton and I don't
• 28:31
  think he's given a bad performance.
• 28:32
  Don't get me wrong. I have seen him to such
• 28:34
  extraordinary, work elsewhere. I just thought this was a very
• 28:37
  plain roll Fair. It's, I I hate to say, I think
• 28:41
  he's slightly miscast and I know from something, he did.
• 28:47
  It RP originally you know, talked Posh and then they went,
• 28:52
  oh, no actually just do it in your normal.
• 28:54
  Little accident and I think I, I don't know.
• 28:58
  I it seems an odd fit. I love the bit where he goes at
• 29:01
  the end because she's family and all of that.
• 29:03
  But I think up until that point, it's I think that would be
• 29:07
  better casting. I think like grotesque hilarious
• 29:12
  in same characters to season them acting.
• 29:14
  So naturalistically is very striking, she's an amazing
• 29:19
  actor. He's brilliant at characters,
• 29:21
  brilliant of Pathos and comedy. I just think this is A slightly
• 29:24
  odd fit and sometimes doc to cast against type and it really
• 29:28
  works. So I'm all for it, there's
• 29:30
  nothing better than seeing William gone from as I was a
• 29:34
  kid. No place like home playing a
• 29:36
  playing and it's a leather-clad assassin with a machine gun and
• 29:39
  it really works and he's brilliant.
• 29:40
  And but we've barely fits great. But but I it's I'm glad you said
• 29:48
  that because I don't I don't wish to I do enjoy criticizing a
• 29:53
  performance that I've seen. That's it.
• 29:54
  There's anything particularly wrong with the performance.
• 29:56
  It just seems to me to be a slight a slightly odd fit.
• 30:00
  I'd say anyone listening to this go and watch one season of
• 30:03
  inside, number nine. Yeah.
• 30:04
  Oh God, an amazing actor. He is an amazing.
• 30:08
  Amazing writer to have been inside.
• 30:10
  Number 9 is extraordinary. I'm gonna I've got a question
• 30:13
  for you about romance in Doctor Who.
• 30:17
  Yes. And okay, that sort of whole
• 30:22
  Time, Traveler's Wife thing, Yeah, because we talked about
• 30:26
  this a bit when we did Army of Ghosts and Dooms Day.
• 30:29
  Yeah, and the Doctor and Rose is relationship.
• 30:32
  Now obviously, this is a big part of the series.
• 30:35
  Yeah, it's do you object, you know, I was once asked the
• 30:41
  question, what would you do if you had a time machine?
• 30:44
  And of course, up other than obviously go back and record the
• 30:47
  97 missing episodes of Doctor. Who is that?
• 30:51
  Actually I would and I up huge fan.
• 30:54
  If Steven moffat's work and his Doctor Who but I'm afraid I
• 30:58
  would travel back in time and to a point Biff and kill the person
• 31:03
  who gave him a Time Traveler's Wife for Christmas because it's
• 31:06
  not the romance that I have a problem with an.
• 31:09
  I actually think the way he deals with fractured memory and
• 31:11
  all of that is quite clever. And it's not the romance that I
• 31:15
  have a problem with. Although I think so many other
• 31:18
  programs are about romance, I think doctor who doesn't need to
• 31:22
  have it, I think and I think I Ways need it to be slightly
• 31:25
  thwarted, you know, I'm not interested in seeing the central
• 31:29
  character having a relationship because every other program is
• 31:32
  about people and their relationships.
• 31:33
  And as a, as a kid and as a youngster, I felt that those
• 31:37
  sort of things were maybe out of my reach and and that programs
• 31:40
  where those were seen, as the most important things that
• 31:43
  alienated me. And I like the ones where you
• 31:45
  could sacrifice that instead, but breathtaking adventure and
• 31:47
  circumstances where I might feel slightly more capable or start
• 31:51
  slightly less less, a feared and all of that.
• 31:54
  That sort of thing. So I my objection to romance in
• 31:58
  Doctor Who is is based on I think the fact that you get that
• 32:04
  from other other programs but then when it's done grip, it
• 32:07
  turns out that the case in the TV movie didn't kill my love for
• 32:10
  Doctor, Who got the doctor and Rose was so beautifully done
• 32:14
  that either that you but you have some educated an etic
• 32:18
  really there but movie was more of a blueprint for the new
• 32:22
  series and we forward. This is yeah.
• 32:23
  Maybe. But, but I thought it was
• 32:25
  brilliantly done, but the problem I have, who I am is not
• 32:30
  the romance, it's the time travel, I'm sorry to say, I
• 32:34
  don't think Doctor Who is about time, travel time travel would
• 32:39
  get a trouble with the following Seasons then time travel gets
• 32:42
  you to the adventure and it gets you out of the adventure as a
• 32:47
  concept it is deeply problematic in terms of Storytelling.
• 32:51
  So you have to then forget about it because Otherwise, when the
• 32:55
  first person dies, the doctor is very heartless if they don't
• 32:58
  travel back in time and stop them dying.
• 33:00
  If you only do it to people who are on serious contract, that
• 33:04
  then draws attention to the artifice that you know, why
• 33:07
  doesn't he just travel back in time and stop Gallifrey being
• 33:10
  destroyed. My friends would say because you
• 33:11
  can't cross the timeline. That'll do.
• 33:14
  Lovely answer. Stop asking silly questions.
• 33:16
  This isn't Bill and Ted where he hides something in a Cupboard
• 33:19
  and they go back and do it four or five times.
• 33:21
  That's because Bill and Ted is a comedy and it's playing fast and
• 33:23
  loose. The idea of sci-fi they never do
• 33:25
  that in Doc to well unless it's the comic relief spec sketch but
• 33:28
  that Stephen Martha writing for comic relief.
• 33:30
  And showing that, that's, that's what you could do.
• 33:32
  If you're being silly but thank God, that's a sketch because
• 33:34
  they never do that in actual double to my.
• 33:36
  Then he does it in actual doctor.
• 33:37
  And I think it's, I think it's problematic as a Storyteller
• 33:42
  because you choose when to do and also, you have to be so
• 33:46
  rigorous. It all has to tie in like a
• 33:49
  jigsaw. And I think when he's doing
• 33:52
  these early stories, when he's writing, One or two a year that
• 33:56
  my God. They're plot.
• 33:57
  It's their said they're meticulous.
• 33:59
  I think if I do think there is well, I think it's too much and
• 34:03
  I don't watch a drama to it. The end.
• 34:07
  Go for the writers clever. I watch the drama to go.
• 34:11
  I'm satisfied, I'm moved. I'm excited about and I think
• 34:16
  there's a bit of a flourish of especially if you're creating
• 34:19
  the rules. It's like if I play a card game
• 34:21
  with you that you've never played before, And and I
• 34:25
  suddenly go in round 13. When you trap me with an ace on
• 34:29
  Oasis, don't work around 13 and you go well, and I didn't know
• 34:33
  that it's like, well, so it's because I'm creating the rules.
• 34:36
  Well, then there's no, there's no satisfaction as a viewer,
• 34:38
  they're all way through. We are saying, you know, that,
• 34:41
  because the doorposts change the rules change.
• 34:44
  I remember getting to the Big Bang in the series 5 and the way
• 34:47
  out of that was him just hopping about all over the place.
• 34:50
  Yeah, cheating. This is a great, you know, and I
• 34:56
  know a lot of people buy into that then you get to 6 and it's
• 34:59
  this whole River Song storyline sort of writ large in that
• 35:02
  season. It's like a massive chapter of
• 35:04
  the doctor and River Song Series 6.
• 35:07
  It's so convoluted. It's so confusing.
• 35:11
  I'll just wasn't enjoying it. I was like yeah I don't know
• 35:13
  what's going on here and I know you know if you want to sit down
• 35:16
  and plot it all out and we'll do that with television, I just
• 35:20
  wanna know what enjoy it. No.
• 35:22
  And I, you know, and I'm happy I watched Over and over and over
• 35:25
  again. So I don't mind.
• 35:26
  It being complicated but not to the extent that I just go home
• 35:29
  and it's just, you know this is too much like hard work and
• 35:32
  that's not to say I didn't enjoy it.
• 35:33
  The more fat error because I did actually he does clever start
• 35:37
  with time travel as well as long as it's the right kind of nodded
• 35:40
  in appreciation as well. I just wished they hadn't gone
• 35:45
  that way with it River song. I think works, I her best in her
• 35:48
  first story and her last story. I loved her in the husbands were
• 35:52
  the song and I thought I was on I thought her and Capaldi had a
• 35:55
  fabulous chemistry in that and I'm to tree, but I think this
• 36:00
  was enough. The, the concept here of him
• 36:02
  first meeting her, is when she last meets him, that's a really
• 36:07
  clever idea. That was probably enough for a
• 36:09
  river. So there was one of the DVD
• 36:12
  extras, a couple of the DVD extras, which made me rethink it
• 36:15
  slightly because it was, maybe it was where they going out for
• 36:18
  their last night or whatever and it's in the Tardis and they have
• 36:22
  this whole exchange about how How can you trust memories?
• 36:26
  Because memory is a fractured. And actually what we remember
• 36:28
  isn't how we how it really happened and all of that and I
• 36:32
  found that quite a convincing argument that actually you and I
• 36:36
  could remember an event, we were both acts 10 years ago and
• 36:39
  remember it completely differently and who's right?
• 36:42
  And who isn't now in real life? That's all about perception but
• 36:45
  in the Doctor Who universe, that could be because time has been
• 36:48
  changed and is in flux. So I Do by that, I think he
• 36:52
  articulated that very well. Some of those exchanges but but
• 36:56
  it's a lot to way through as a in storytelling terms and I
• 37:02
  think it's I think it's a misuse of the TARDIS because it
• 37:06
  suddenly becomes a get out if you want it to and then when you
• 37:10
  don't want it to that question, that's always hanging with time
• 37:13
  travel. Well, why don't they just the
• 37:16
  doctor who used to very easily and pithily bat off is not so
• 37:20
  easily dispensed with a word for two.
• 37:24
  Lula Riley, who, who does, who's sort of wanting to go off as and
• 37:28
  get the attention of everybody as Miss Evangelista?
• 37:33
  I think I think is so sympathetically done, I think
• 37:36
  she's great. This is our haven't mentioned
• 37:39
  Euros, Linens out, brilliant, but this is quite a long
• 37:44
  sequence, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, he's a terrific
• 37:47
  dress. Look at that slightly Askew
• 37:49
  camera. The lighting is the lighting is
• 37:51
  gorgeous. And look how far away she is
• 37:53
  too. Incredibly creepily lit room.
• 37:57
  Now, beautiful beams of light coming through the ceiling.
• 38:01
  I said, of course, it's all about light and darkness and
• 38:04
  Shadow, and It was time I day. It looks it looks like a very
• 38:11
  important place, doesn't it? Yeah.
• 38:15
  And it's really spooky and really atmospheric and you know,
• 38:18
  I've been listening a minute is when she dies and she's ghosting
• 38:24
  in. Yeah, I can't know what it's
• 38:25
  called now. The the is.
• 38:27
  Yes. Yeah.
• 38:28
  The thingy with the light turning off.
• 38:31
  Yeah. Is how she talks to Donna and
• 38:34
  have Donner just refuses to patronize a like everybody.
• 38:38
  Yeah, I'm touching. It's the I think I mean, I think
• 38:43
  I can't remember. I think somebody may have
• 38:44
  already done this for me if happy terms of places, but if
• 38:47
  they hunt, they could cheat now because I think this scene where
• 38:50
  she's ghosting is extraordinary, it is brilliant having.
• 38:56
  And I'm sorry if I was if I was disparaging about the time
• 39:00
  travel element of Steven Moffat stuff, I actually adore his
• 39:03
  writing, I adore his wit and but also let's not forget he really
• 39:08
  understands how to do science fiction Concepts and to meld
• 39:12
  them into something very human. So I think there's this this
• 39:16
  idea of the ghosting is a fabulous idea that pays off
• 39:20
  later as well but for here to get a moment of humanity at the
• 39:24
  point of somebody's death and to make the death of this sort of
• 39:27
  rather useless factotum who everybody was a bit patronizing
• 39:31
  to and to give Donna that moment of connection.
• 39:35
  And then to top it all with a final thought he's afraid.
• 39:38
  Besos written ice cream. Ice cream, ice cream.
• 39:40
  I mean, it works on every level, every single word of this scene,
• 39:44
  I think, is absolute genius Dori.
• 39:47
  I really love it when they used on a like this as well where
• 39:50
  she's like, I don't want to like and and she's doing when she
• 39:53
  picks up the personal ball in planning a huge.
• 39:56
  And she's going like, oh hello, I'm Donna.
• 40:01
  How can you not love this woman? Yeah, she's great.
• 40:07
  It's so beautiful and I do love the idea of the entire.
• 40:13
  You know, that's the skeleton being clean, you know.
• 40:15
  It's like put it in a space suit you can have it when ya around.
• 40:22
  Well, as great as its skeleton in a spacesuit is a typically
• 40:25
  start sort of my fatty kind of a button, but it reminds you of,
• 40:29
  you know, when I was a kid, the art of piranhas were a thing,
• 40:31
  you know, you'd, you know, because they could stay strip,
• 40:35
  somebody alive it s. So so so piranhas were always a
• 40:38
  sort of very scary concept. So there's a bit of this, a bit
• 40:41
  of that about them. These golden piranhas in the
• 40:43
  dark. Yeah.
• 40:44
  Something like that noise. And that's what you need, isn't
• 40:47
  it? It's like yeah, if you're gonna
• 40:48
  be Stars enough. Yeah, step into a shadow and of
• 40:52
  course he's doing that wonderful thing.
• 40:53
  That's even more fit does see. Now, we're getting every
• 40:55
  direction are full of price is seeding, ideas early, that are
• 41:01
  vital to the climax and the ghosting is vital, because it's
• 41:04
  in the screwdriver, and that's what saves her.
• 41:06
  Over at the end. Yeah, it just seems like it's
• 41:09
  there to add a little bit of texture it humanity and and it's
• 41:13
  a greater a bit like the Nanobots in, in empty child,
• 41:17
  which you think, oh, well, that's the thing to amend roses
• 41:19
  hands. That's, and then, it turns out
• 41:21
  to be the key to the whole thing.
• 41:23
  There's something very Agatha Christie about Steven.
• 41:26
  Moffat has writing, sometimes he's smart, he's meticulous,
• 41:29
  meticulous and its best it's forensically, but you can
• 41:33
  imagine the Post-it notes, what the fuck?
• 41:36
  In fact, I admire that so much because because to write
• 41:40
  something and have the different compartments in your head, where
• 41:43
  this pays off there and that goes backwards there, there's a
• 41:46
  that takes a particular mind. And it's, and it's, you know,
• 41:50
  hard. We're let's see 29 minutes into
• 41:54
  this episode. Now I'd have failed to mention
• 41:56
  David Tennant in any grief, hell once.
• 42:01
  And I know I know you adore, David Tennant and the tenth
• 42:04
  doctor. Yes.
• 42:07
  In theories for. He's Just A Cut Above even his
• 42:10
  own Brilliance. He said he's so good.
• 42:13
  He's easy. And it certainly ice cream.
• 42:17
  Oh God. It's so beautiful.
• 42:19
  He's so easy to take regret. We, I think, I think I'm always
• 42:22
  guilty of because I like it when I always look for the new things
• 42:26
  in a story that new actor or that new director, or that new
• 42:28
  way of Storytelling. With that new monster that I
• 42:31
  often take the regulars for granted and David Tennant,
• 42:34
  probably more so than any partially because Gets enough
• 42:37
  love from the general public. You know, I there's no need to
• 42:40
  stand up for him in a way that's perhaps a need to stick up for
• 42:43
  Colin Baker or people that deserve a bit of ballast, but
• 42:47
  there's a reason David. Tennant is loved by the general
• 42:49
  public. He's great.
• 42:51
  He's a phenomenal actor. He's such a good activity coming
• 42:55
  back as well, you know, but he cannot he drives, he has got
• 43:00
  such as an acting on telly is not easy.
• 43:03
  Look, I'm not. Yes, it's not brain surgery.
• 43:06
  Yes, it's not as important as some other things, but as a
• 43:08
  technical exercise acting on television, is not as easy as it
• 43:13
  looks. And to have somebody who's doing
• 43:15
  all of this stuff. It completely a different order,
• 43:19
  different ends of the week, different ends of the day, but
• 43:22
  who's got a sense of he Paces his episodes of Doctor Who the
• 43:27
  the driving pace of the Tenth. Doctors era is David, Tennant
• 43:33
  energy and that's what, you know, that's a Just that the
• 43:37
  like that but that it does with the, with the torch there,
• 43:39
  right? Sort of thing and he affords you
• 43:41
  a hero shot because he knows exactly how to do it.
• 43:44
  And and the way he belts around is because doctor can never be
• 43:48
  boring but it easily can be. If you're not careful especially
• 43:51
  as if you're spouting lots of exposition or difficult sci-fi
• 43:54
  explanation but he's got such a drive and such an energy and no
• 43:58
  I think I can point at the episode that exemplifies what
• 44:01
  you're saying absolutely perfectly and that's Utopia
• 44:06
  where At the beginning, he's very fun and they're exploring
• 44:11
  and it's okay, then there's in the middle, there's a lot of
• 44:14
  exposition and he's having some real character mode.
• 44:17
  And then when the Masters revealed, sorry, spoiler, it's
• 44:19
  been 10 years. Get over it, he's Furious, he's
• 44:25
  dialogue is what he's talking about.
• 44:27
  He's screaming his head off because that climax is just
• 44:30
  explosive. Yeah, yeah.
• 44:31
  It's a really underrated talents that, that, that, you know, And
• 44:37
  the fact because he's on screen for so long and you know,
• 44:39
  they're early mornings. When you, you know, he you need
• 44:43
  a, you need somebody who's fit and vital and Sparky and, you
• 44:47
  know, he's got that intelligence whirring away as well.
• 44:50
  I wasn't sure what I didn't get, what I was expecting with David
• 44:53
  Tennant. I didn't expect him to be quite,
• 44:55
  so, sort of cheeky chappy, mock me.
• 44:58
  And that was a bit of a surprise because our image, I think that
• 45:00
  we had of the doctor at that time was heaps of eccentric
• 45:03
  English, my remote sort of time and Obviously Eccleston was a
• 45:07
  casting against that type so I think I was exposed and I hate
• 45:11
  Facebook. Cool doctor was there.
• 45:13
  Yeah, yeah. Get well Geek Chic.
• 45:15
  Yeah. For the kids, you know, yeah, I
• 45:17
  think he's great and he's such a nice man.
• 45:20
  I have to say, he said yeah one interview where anyone has said
• 45:25
  anything other than he's just lying, there is a really nice
• 45:29
  bloke. He's a good boy, he's a decent
• 45:31
  bloke, he really is all here, you know that she's getting the
• 45:35
  first key here that Something is going to happen at the end of
• 45:38
  this city or her future is not with the doctor because River.
• 45:42
  Yeah. That's who she is.
• 45:44
  Yeah, yes, yes. Yes, there's always that sort of
• 45:51
  because there again, it's very because they're so fun to be
• 45:55
  with these characters. And you know, you go oh well
• 45:59
  this this going to last forever. You have to have that sort of
• 46:02
  slight portent of Doom. I mean it does.
• 46:05
  So they do slightly cheat with it.
• 46:06
  You know that there's always somebody banging on about this
• 46:09
  is the story of when I die and then you go.
• 46:11
  But it's not actually you're not actually going to die, though.
• 46:13
  I you it's going to be a metaphor for death but but it
• 46:16
  just helps to puncher. What would otherwise?
• 46:18
  Speed is too much fun roughly Davis seasons are brilliant at
• 46:23
  doing that. Are they?
• 46:23
  Yeah, will tend to us something bad is just around the corner.
• 46:27
  Yeah you see him throw the chicken inside.
• 46:30
  Scratch blue. Simple to show the kids at
• 46:33
  what's happening to another person when they step into the
• 46:36
  wrong Shadow. Yeah yeah.
• 46:38
  Oh and because I think we're about to lose about me, I have
• 46:41
  to say kudos to the naming of proper Dave and other Dave, I
• 46:47
  think it's just simple. Glorious Little Grace note.
• 46:50
  Because, of course, nobody that he drama tends to have the same
• 46:53
  name because that's confusing and it's one of the, it's one of
• 46:57
  the 10 ones, you get in writing, don't call, you know, somebody
• 47:00
  John and somebody Johnny or whatever.
• 47:02
  But goes but you're always meeting people who've got you
• 47:05
  know that you're always got a Marquess and Mark T and you have
• 47:09
  to delineate them somehow. So having a proper day of an,
• 47:12
  another Dave I think is a lovely piece of charmingly funny
• 47:17
  writing, absolute Harry peacock. Well, I'm, I don't know if, you
• 47:20
  know Toast of London, but he's one of the great comedy
• 47:23
  characters. Ray bloody purchase who Stephen,
• 47:27
  Stephen toasts the actors arch nemesis, and he's a Furious
• 47:31
  actor. Type.
• 47:33
  This guy, Harry Pico, and he's got wonderful legs.
• 47:36
  There's a scene. He does in one of the toast
• 47:38
  episodes, right? He's in a toga, he's got cast to
• 47:41
  die for until you allow that. He is also the brother.
• 47:45
  I need to do a podcast on Brothers in doctor or relatives
• 47:48
  in Doctor because he is the brother of.
• 47:50
  Nord the Viking, don't know what the vandalism of the greatest
• 47:53
  show in the Galaxy that caused the peacock science and Harry
• 47:57
  peacock. Here is Trevor peacock son as
• 47:59
  well. Another extraordinary actor?
• 48:02
  Yeah. Who never did a who bizarrely
• 48:05
  Trevor, Trevor after made for you seen Jim taught in the
• 48:07
  vicar, a dick? Yeah, Trevor was a marvelous
• 48:10
  actor know, for a long time. I thought, Ben rode a heretic
• 48:13
  was Trevor because he could have easily done the part definitely.
• 48:18
  They ice crystals broke one. Something we mentioned in a
• 48:26
  previous comment rate is a during this period of dogs are
• 48:30
  who they can bring together, an astonishing Ensemble of actors.
• 48:36
  Actually do it in possible planet and Satan here.
• 48:40
  Yeah, again in the waters of Mars, but I think this is a,
• 48:44
  this is a big hitting cars as well.
• 48:46
  It's a lovely car Stitcher. And OT fact been lady whose is
• 48:51
  the other day this has got a great American Career.
• 48:54
  Now he's a, you know, he's in loads of American shows and
• 48:57
  there's a terrific actor, he died.
• 48:59
  Seen him on stage here in Manchester at the Royal Exchange
• 49:02
  in six degrees of separation of a, he was a very promising
• 49:04
  newcomer, you know, and he's got a lovely style about it and
• 49:08
  doesn't offer again an awful lot to do it, it's really sorry.
• 49:13
  Donna materializing there she'd materialized in the closet and
• 49:17
  she lets out and My t-square only when I first watched it on
• 49:21
  my blood cold. Yeah.
• 49:23
  And it leans into that Elizabeth sladen.
• 49:25
  Thing of saying, of course the companion should scream if
• 49:27
  they're scared and it's not. There's a lot in the new series.
• 49:31
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 49:33
  But it's yes, it's horrible. It's curving.
• 49:35
  And also, what words from Murray gold?
• 49:37
  I love marigolds music. I know some people say, oh, it's
• 49:41
  too much. I love it.
• 49:42
  I absolutely love it in forest of the Dead.
• 49:45
  There is an eight-minute piece of Isaac and God damn it.
• 49:49
  I can't remember what it's called.
• 49:50
  I'll look it up between the episodes and I have heard that
• 49:54
  but is that it's the piece that starts playing when the doctor
• 49:56
  and River just for she kills herself, right up until towards
• 49:59
  the end. I think it's on the best piece
• 50:01
  of music in doctor. It's fantastically good, but
• 50:05
  it's understated in this episode.
• 50:07
  Yeah, it really is, it's all sort of Moody notes that
• 50:11
  slightly Askew if notes that go that suddenly go in an odd
• 50:14
  Direction. This this is a of course you
• 50:16
  forget is up my fax, great at catch.
• 50:18
  Raises, are you my mummy? Hey, who turned out the lights?
• 50:22
  I just to get, he's really good at that sort of economical pant
• 50:26
  sweaty. Yeah.
• 50:29
  And that's one of those questions from Twitter was Toby,
• 50:32
  who did turn out the lights? Well in but it's, but, you know,
• 50:38
  that you can do, you can see him fiendishly coming up with that
• 50:41
  idea, you know, just us, the in are eggs, our ability and the
• 50:47
  inexorable nature. Of a walking skeleton where you
• 50:50
  can't stop it because it's already dead.
• 50:52
  You can't communicate with it because it's just saying the one
• 50:55
  thing. And it's that great thing of
• 50:57
  being a parody of humanity, which is always the scariest, is
• 51:02
  that something? That's really a dead man walk
• 51:03
  out. It's a beautiful Dead Man.
• 51:06
  Walking scary things in the shadows.
• 51:09
  I mean, genius. And here's the music, really
• 51:12
  kicks in here as a, and I love leading to a cliffhanger, in a
• 51:14
  doctor who of this period, because they're so rare as well.
• 51:18
  It It feels like the stakes are up and this is like a multi
• 51:21
  Cliffhanger. There's about a hundred things
• 51:23
  going on, Shadows bleeding out of that and I also really love
• 51:27
  the sort of jerky movements as yeah.
• 51:30
  Cadaverous move its eyes, chill. I wonder if it is Harry peacock.
• 51:34
  It's listen to me, you know, you know, God do all the Billy
• 51:36
  wondering about as well or if it was a listen love.
• 51:39
  I'll do it when he's talking but otherwise you could get get
• 51:42
  somebody from Wales in. We still don't know what
• 51:45
  happened to Donna at this point. Do we know what she said?
• 51:48
  She's yeah, no, shit. We've seen a screen would take
• 51:51
  away, we don't know what's happening with the little girl
• 51:55
  either. But grief out of that square
• 51:58
  that ask you square in. Cut out the wall was beautiful
• 52:03
  and I'm a something wonderful happening.
• 52:06
  Every 30 seconds. Yeah.
• 52:08
  And I'm a sucker for running up and down.
• 52:09
  Corridors. I just wanted my meat and drink
• 52:13
  have a book that was called yesterday.
• 52:16
  Did I didn't touch that? That was what we were given.
• 52:18
  Of titles. And that was the one that we
• 52:22
  went for. I quite rudely rejected, a lot
• 52:25
  of them because because it's an American publisher.
• 52:28
  So say, how about things like totally Sonic exclamation mark
• 52:31
  and I was like, absolutely not know what I was thinking.
• 52:37
  I have a blunt penknife and I thought No One's Gonna Go with
• 52:40
  this. Not only have I done that but I
• 52:42
  get people to say it all the time.
• 52:44
  It's glorious. That's a great line.
• 52:47
  But yeah, people have I go Arc of Infinity but I think there's
• 52:50
  nothing like watching. Peter Davison, breath.
• 52:52
  Ali running up and down the corridor that to me.
• 52:54
  Is anyone can face up against the side of about and talk about
• 52:58
  well, prepared meals. Nobody can nobody but Davis and
• 53:01
  can quite make that the same short Studio space.
• 53:05
  Look like the entire corridors of Gallifrey what's light on
• 53:09
  page. Thanks has incredible acting
• 53:11
  career but nobody can Wonder a corridor quite like him.
• 53:14
  I don't, I think you're quite right.
• 53:15
  And indeed tenant does, when he does a couple of bits of He goes
• 53:19
  to sleep. He's totally not made lining the
• 53:22
  Davison. Yes, is print on this is
• 53:25
  brilliant. Look at that.
• 53:26
  Oh my God, it's Donna. You know what I love about it.
• 53:29
  This is troll doll from Terror of the autons.
• 53:31
  It's simultaneously, very stupid and our silly chilly.
• 53:35
  Yeah. And, and what stops, anything
• 53:38
  adopt to being totally stupid, is the playing of it and the
• 53:42
  absolute commitment. Look at tenant and her Alex,
• 53:45
  Kingston's reaction is important as well.
• 53:48
  I don't Kingston was big news at this time.
• 53:50
  This was somebody who was in America, who's that dude?
• 53:53
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this and I love this
• 53:59
  motive, musical Motif as well. But that yet again it's a parody
• 54:03
  of what we know the fact that it looks and sounds like Donna but
• 54:07
  it's unblinking and it's repetitive and it's dehumanized
• 54:11
  and then you've got this cracking Cliffhanger which I
• 54:15
  mean everything is going on. It's three Cliffhangers,
• 54:17
  brilliant. The little girl.
• 54:19
  You've got them being chased by a skeleton.
• 54:21
  You got Donna's face on the pole with yeah, it's absolutely
• 54:25
  terrific. I love it.
• 54:26
  I wish we were really see because in the second episode.
• 54:29
  You're right. He completely subvert
• 54:31
  expectations. Yeah and goes off in what
• 54:34
  appears to be a completely different story for a little
• 54:36
  while. Of course.
• 54:37
  Yes. Ultimately it's get credits are
• 54:40
  going too fast. Yeah, I got the only, my only
• 54:44
  complaint and it's not, it's not the program's fault, it's the
• 54:47
  BBC eat. Addict for her long, credit
• 54:49
  should last, but I think that's offensively for I think those
• 54:53
  credits are moving at an offensive speed.
• 54:58
  Oh, do you watch the next time trailers when you're watching
• 55:01
  these on? Yes, I have a friend who doesn't
• 55:06
  but but but me, I feel if it's like that's what's being given
• 55:10
  out. I feel it's acceptable to digest
• 55:12
  it. I love the way she does that
• 55:14
  line. I hate you sometimes.
• 55:17
  The thing is your I think that episode is fantastic, but I love
• 55:21
  it. I love it even better.
• 55:23
  And it's a second part that completely lives up to the
• 55:27
  promise and more Yes. Now mind might start
• 55:33
  automatically there. It's not my favorite.
• 55:36
  Let me pause this because I'm going to hit you with a few
• 55:38
  questions. Now, we will indulge me.
• 55:41
  Yeah, okey-dokey. So we've got we've asked this
• 55:46
  already some Fraser Gregory r squared.
• 55:48
  You re steep end. Put yeah.
• 55:49
  Steve pemberton's performers in this in comparison to his League
• 55:52
  of gentlemen colleagues turn in Doctor Who so that's reshares me
• 55:56
  if I guess he's talking about I'm not gay serious.
• 55:58
  Yeah. Trusting.
• 56:01
  Oh yeah it's a good comparing actors is like comparing and,
• 56:05
  you know, salads, two paintings. Sometimes very different
• 56:09
  different things required to different.
• 56:11
  I I think my I love Marquesas is turning twice upon a time I
• 56:19
  think because he's so good at channeling that sort of slightly
• 56:22
  old-fashioned thing. He's heartwarmingly
• 56:26
  old-fashioned in in his loves and the things that he often
• 56:29
  turns its and And to be quite surprised me in Lazarus
• 56:33
  experiment, you know, cause I thought that yeah, in the very
• 56:36
  one dimensional row and no, he's great in that.
• 56:38
  But if I was to choose a favorite performance of all of
• 56:41
  those, the the league of gentlemen, nerds in Doc to I
• 56:46
  choose Mark in twice Upon a Time just because I think he's so
• 56:51
  sweet and kind, but they're all, I mean, they're all amazing.
• 56:55
  Actors, I mean, Risha Smith's great in his episode but Done.
• 57:03
  It's yeah, I just sort of take it for granted that he gives a
• 57:07
  good performance, you know, but it's but it's not.
• 57:10
  It's not, it's not one that I'd immediately is the quality of
• 57:14
  acting in Doctor, Who is so good.
• 57:16
  These days that we're sort of spoiled for choice and I think
• 57:19
  there are other perhaps more more noticeable terms.
• 57:22
  We've talked about where oddly, it seems that I do feel that
• 57:26
  that's the proper term is just a slightly odd fit for that part.
• 57:31
  Although, as I said, I I love the same way.
• 57:34
  He does the Revelation. Yeah.
• 57:36
  Right. But but but prior to that I
• 57:39
  yeah, I've always just slightly struggled with it.
• 57:42
  Okay? You can give a perfectly cheeky
• 57:44
  answer to this question lit. Round was asked, which
• 57:47
  particular Doctor Who Adventure novelisation?
• 57:50
  Did the Vashta Nerada read that made them run away?
• 57:56
  Can we do it? Not to litter at not too literal
• 57:58
  it around or Sue's Twitter feed is so fascinating, wonderful.
• 58:02
  Tough. What are the more villains
• 58:04
  watching? Yes I am.
• 58:10
  I that's pip though. Is that the prevalence?
• 58:13
  I thought it made always up here.
• 58:15
  Oh, okay. Yeah, it does.
• 58:17
  The lit roundels just the sort of looks at lighting designers
• 58:23
  and does things like that and he's done three schools as well.
• 58:27
  Yeah, YouTube there's some real inventiveness inducted into it
• 58:30
  and leaves me in awe. That we must, I always feel the
• 58:34
  need to remind ourselves of that, because we sometimes get
• 58:36
  carried away with the bits. We don't like it in the meanest
• 58:39
  of that. Anyway, I'd the book that the
• 58:42
  bash no Nara. It's the robots of death.
• 58:44
  A disappointingly slim volume where, in one scene, I haven't
• 58:49
  read it for 40 years. There's a scene after Cass, has
• 58:53
  been killed that the doctor goes into the control deck or
• 58:57
  whatever it is, or the lounge, whether all it and he describes
• 59:00
  who's in the room. And it includes the A tall.
• 59:03
  Lean Cass and Cass is dead, so it's a continuity error within
• 59:07
  the book. I remember that from when I was
• 59:09
  about nine or whatever, but for one of doctors all-time classic
• 59:15
  stories that the robots of death is such a slim volume.
• 59:21
  You know, you could pick it up with it with a little pain
• 59:23
  kidneys then it blew away. Yeah.
• 59:25
  So I think the passion Dorada actually eaten all the
• 59:29
  descriptive passages and fleshed out character moments.
• 59:33
  And I've accidentally sicced cast into a chapter, you should
• 59:36
  dip it in. This is, this is from Joe Shaw.
• 59:39
  And I just, I just want to know what your answer to.
• 59:41
  This is going to be witch doctor would make a good librarian and
• 59:45
  which one would be chucked out for messing up.
• 59:47
  The books on making a real, I think Sylvester McCoy would be
• 59:51
  the worst, I would imagine him jamming.
• 59:54
  Anything that one of the great things about Sylvester McCoy is
• 59:57
  his chaos, which I completely identify with because I am very
• 1:00:01
  much I will Pick something up and shove it up.
• 1:00:04
  You know, I have to have certain biannual tidies of shelves
• 1:00:08
  because everything's just sort of by ordered an absolute mess.
• 1:00:11
  And I can imagine the Seventh Doctor just shoving everything
• 1:00:15
  where it, you know where it, where it lands, who is perhaps
• 1:00:19
  the most. I suspect I think partner would
• 1:00:23
  probably be quite fastidious about keeping it all spic and
• 1:00:27
  span and would be terrible. What's that would be awful.
• 1:00:33
  You know, Frasier would be eating toast off the books.
• 1:00:39
  Pertwee wouldn't have read any of them.
• 1:00:40
  It just have them all leather about go.
• 1:00:42
  I hope you liked my book collection but he's not there.
• 1:00:45
  Just all for show. He's never read any of them.
• 1:00:48
  There was a wonderful passage in pool.
• 1:00:50
  Mars is Mad Dogs and Englishmen which had him in the Tardis
• 1:00:53
  library and he's going through books.
• 1:00:58
  And in the margins, the doctors writing like arguments Against
• 1:01:03
  the facts that are in the books and then other incarnations of
• 1:01:05
  the doctor arguing, oh brilliant.
• 1:01:12
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to hit you with one
• 1:01:17
  more then before we go in to episode two lost on Gallifrey
• 1:01:21
  podcast ass have, even you got a theory of when the doctor tells
• 1:01:25
  River Song his name and follow that up with, it's not in the
• 1:01:29
  wedding of river song because he says, look into my eye.
• 1:01:32
  Is it what he's dying. And let's kill Hitler or on one
• 1:01:35
  of the routes. Unite sonder, ilium.
• 1:01:37
  And is his name Basile. Oh, I do like, I'm afraid my
• 1:01:47
  mind. Does not all my do any of this
• 1:01:52
  stuff. Well, so with the best will in
• 1:01:55
  the world, I'd love to come up with some Terraza and I know
• 1:01:58
  that Steven Moffat will have very much sort of planned it.
• 1:02:02
  And made it all work at tie together.
• 1:02:05
  I don't think he had a great big plan from the beginning, but you
• 1:02:07
  sort of maybe retroactively made it work and that sort of thing.
• 1:02:11
  And I admire anybody that can sort of work it all into a
• 1:02:14
  fastidious timer, but I don't care.
• 1:02:20
  I don't give a shit, I get the emotion, I love the emotion.
• 1:02:26
  I love the the Lost opportunities and the and the
• 1:02:29
  pathos of the idea of meeting somebody.
• 1:02:32
  The day that they die and then that friendship going off
• 1:02:35
  because I think, all of that is lovely, but it's because of what
• 1:02:38
  it facilitates in the performance of the two actors
• 1:02:42
  that appeals more to me than actually coming up with a
• 1:02:46
  stringent timeline, that ties, it all together, that that I'm
• 1:02:50
  afraid is, is too much to ask of me, you know, I got to be
• 1:02:54
  honest, there is an enormous section of fandom that are
• 1:02:59
  obsessed. You know with filling in Ninh
• 1:03:02
  and a chronology. And, and I think that's all
• 1:03:06
  right, I think. And I think that's fine.
• 1:03:10
  And I think that the beauty of dok2 is, I saw somebody the
• 1:03:13
  other day complaining because the next ewm special is all
• 1:03:16
  about the guest stars and going off, scraping the bottom of the
• 1:03:19
  barrel. Well to me that's my meat and
• 1:03:20
  drink. I'm going to love digesting that
• 1:03:23
  because I don't but I can equally understand why some
• 1:03:25
  people don't care and don't know the names of any of the actors
• 1:03:29
  to play any of the supporting part because there Drawn to the
• 1:03:33
  Future history of Earth, or the doctor and River songs timeline
• 1:03:37
  or any of those it. And that's the beauty of it.
• 1:03:40
  We cannot some people, you know, get the exact measurements of
• 1:03:43
  the costumes and that's how that anything that makes you go away
• 1:03:47
  from the programming, exercise, your brain, or your creativity,
• 1:03:51
  or most importantly, connect with somebody else because of a
• 1:03:55
  shared enjoyment, of a particular aspect of the show
• 1:03:59
  is, is joyous and wonderful and shows Slide up to is such a
• 1:04:04
  Force for good, and it'll burn, and I would never criticize or
• 1:04:09
  mock or even not understand. Somebody creating a perfectly
• 1:04:15
  perfect timeline for the doctor and River Song.
• 1:04:17
  Having gone away, I worked it all out.
• 1:04:19
  If that's the thing that has anchored into their brain in the
• 1:04:23
  same way that I might go and research and access, got two
• 1:04:26
  lines of the 90s story and The Advocates, oh sorry.
• 1:04:32
  The end of the day, it's all pointless, but if it's, but if
• 1:04:35
  it's for, if it's what makes our time on this Earth pass, or
• 1:04:39
  agreeably better, more agreeably.
• 1:04:42
  And as I said, I think crucially what we touched on earlier,
• 1:04:47
  connects us with other people, I think it's great, I think it's
• 1:04:51
  great, so more power to everybody's elbow, but just
• 1:04:53
  don't expect me to understand any of it.