Latest / Pod Save America / Shutdown for What? (Schumer's Version)

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Shutdown for What? (Schumer's Version) · Pod Save America

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  Speaker 4: The Big Short.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Tommy Vitor.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Sorry I lost my voice at CrookedCon chanting for Robert
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Mueller and the rule of law.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, I remember we all noticed it right
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: before Terminally Online. We're like, Jon, you losing your voice?
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: You're like, I think so.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure enough.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Six more hours of hanging out.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: There it goes. On today's show, Democrats had exactly five
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: days of feeling good between last week's elections and the
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: news on Sunday that eight senators cut a deal with
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Republicans to reopen the federal government. We'll get into all
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the reactions and talk about what's next. We'll also talk
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: about Trump's attempt to deal with the affordability issue that
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: sunk his party last week, and another flurry of pardons
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: for all his favorite co-conspirators, and possibly Ghislaine Maxwell. The
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: president was also booed at the Commanders game, which may
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: throw a wrench in his plans to name the new
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: stadium after himself.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Dickhead Park?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Dickhead Park, asshole.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Little tiny penis, little tiny penis, Sabrina. Little tiny penis,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: little tiny tiny penis.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: But let's start with the capitulation that should lead to
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the government reopening this week. On Sunday, the following eight
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: senators cut a deal with Republicans to end the longest
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: shutdown in history. Jeanne Shaheen and Dick Durbin, both of
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: whom are retiring, as well as Maggie Hassan, Tim Kaine,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Jackie Rosen, Catherine Cortez Masto, John Fetterman, and independent Angus King,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: all of whom aren't up for reelection until 2028 or 2030.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: The deal will fund the government through January 30th, so...
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Just a couple months and we can do this all again.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: It will also reinstate all the furloughed and fired federal
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: workers with back pay, prevent Trump from firing federal workers
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: in the event of future shutdowns, and fully fund SNAP
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: benefits through the end of 2026. But on the issue
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: the Democrats made the shutdown about, extending Obamacare subsidies to
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: prevent premium hikes on 20 million Americans, the deal only
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: gives Democrats a vote in the Senate on a bill
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: of their choosing sometime in December. The Senate took the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: first vote to approve the deal Sunday night, and the
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: House will vote on it as soon as they're all
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: back in town this week for the first time since
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the middle of September. The reaction to the deal from
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Democrats has been mixed. If you define mixed, it's just
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: about everyone hating it, but the senators who cut the deal.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Here's Senator Angus King of Maine, one of the defectors,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: offering his take on Morning Joe.
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: There were two goals, both of which I support. One
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: was standing up to Donald Trump. The other was getting
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: some resolution on the ACA premium tax credit issue. The
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: problem was the shutdown wasn't accomplishing either goals, and there
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: was practically, well, there was zero likelihood that it was
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: going to. In terms of standing up to Donald Trump,
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: the shutdown actually gave him more power. Exhibit A being
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: what he's done with SNAP under special law, under that
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: big awful bill that they passed last summer. The ICE
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: agents are being paid. Nobody else is. So standing up
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: to Donald Trump didn't work. It actually gave him more power.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Better things aren't possible.
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: That's really just doing the meme. Bizarro John Bolton did
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: not make me like him more there.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: It does look a little like John Bolton. Think about that.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: That stash.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: As for the people taking the other side of the argument,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: there's too many to play, but here's just a quick
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: sample from Bernie Sanders, Adam Schiff, and Chris Murphy.
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: So I just voted no on the Republican funding bill.
• 5:52
  Speaker 6: I'm outside the Capitol. It's dark and raining, and that
• 5:56
  Speaker 6: seems all too appropriate for this moment. We owe our constituents....
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Better than this.
• 6:02
  Speaker 6: We owe a resolution that makes it possible for them
• 6:05
  Speaker 6: to afford their health care.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: What the election showed is that the American people want
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: us to stand up to Trumpism, to his war against
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: working class people, to his authoritarianism. That is what the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: American people wanted. But tonight, that is not what happened.
• 6:21
  Speaker 7: See how tired I am. I've been here all weekend.
• 6:24
  Speaker 7: I've been working throughout the past few weeks to try
• 6:27
  Speaker 7: to prevent this moment After the elections on Tuesday, it
• 6:30
  Speaker 7: just became absolutely clear that the American people do not
• 6:34
  Speaker 7: want Democrats to be bullied into submission. They want Democrats
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: to fight for their health care. They want Democrats to
• 6:41
  Speaker 7: fight Trump's illegality.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Ed Markey actually did one from the toilet.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: When you're mad, you hit him with a walk and talk.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: When you're happy, you go on with the Joes.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: I love the new Bernie in-house style. Whatever it is,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: the video that Bernie and AOC shot together, I like
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: the walk and talk. I like the style.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: It's like the portrait mode kind of focus.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not on a phone.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: It's on a camera, I think. It's a nice camera.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: It looks really nice.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Anyway, we've got to get to some big things to
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: talk about here, guys.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: I like the camera angles.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Anyway, but before we have to delve in, I guess
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: the first question on a lot of people's minds who've
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: been following this story is, why did they do this
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: and why now? Tommy, you want to kick us off?
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think the fatal flaw in this whole
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: shutdown was the lack of a realistic end game. And
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: that was always been the case. And I think government shutdowns,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: historically speaking, have never been great ways to get legislative victories.
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: And that proved to be the case here. And the
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: Senate Democrats, it seemed like their only hope was to
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: get Trump to do an end run around congressional leaders
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: on the Republican side, talk to them directly, maybe negotiate
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: something because he doesn't like to get blamed for shit.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: And he likes to be the hero who comes in
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: at the end. And that didn't happen. There was a
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: sliver of hope. But remember, Speaker Johnson, back in October,
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: It seemed like Trump might go sit down with Democrats,
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: but then Johnson and Thune shut it down. And I
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: think then Trump started blaming Republicans for getting rid of
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: the filibuster and calling to get rid of the filibuster.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: And the bunch of moderates were like, this is over.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: You know, it's just never going to happen. So I
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: think there are probably some people in the caucus and
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: the Democratic side who never wanted the shutdown fight in
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: the first place. They also wanted to prevent more harm
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: from happening. The new Republicans were willing to continue to
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: hurt the country and hurt voters in an effort to
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: squeeze them. That included firing people federal workers in particular,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: starving SNAP recipients, freezing people who need heating assistance, and
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: then terrifying anyone who goes on an airplane. We're also
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: 10 days into ACA open enrollment. So there was a
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: kind of a ticking clock there. So they just caved.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Lovett, how do you feel?
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: So no one has done a better job of explaining
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: their votes than the group of people who voted yes.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: That's been my great frustration over the last 24 hours. hours.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: You saw Angus King there. I don't actually even understand.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: I understand what he's saying on some level, but the
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: goal of standing up to Donald Trump failed. That's why
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: we're no longer standing up to Donald Trump. I really
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: genuinely can't make sense of the logic of what they've
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: been saying, in part because I actually take them at
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: their word. The pain of the shutdown is ramping up
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: and they don't see any kind of a concession on exchanges,
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: that that is vanishingly small on the ACA subsidies. And
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: so let's cut our losses. But the argument they're making
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: around this is not just an argument for caving now,
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: it's an argument for never having pursued a shutdown in
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: the first place, because a lot of what they're describing,
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: the pain of the shutdown, you voted for a shutdown.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: That's what you did. You decided to pursue a shutdown
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: in the hopes that it would create Now, I agree, Tommy,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: that there were moments where it seemed like Trump might concede.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: But I would say like when he was railing against
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: them about the filibuster, when in the White House, he
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: talked about being open to some kind of a deal
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: that I'm sure made like Thune and Mike Johnson hit
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: their heads. Like to me, I didn't take that as, oh,
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: this is never going to happen. It might still be unlikely,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: but I don't understand why this deal happened so quickly.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: And right now, especially when Chuck Schumer on Friday and
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: Saturday laid out a last-ditch compromise, which is a one-year
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: extension of ACA subsidies plus the CR, which seems to
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: me is a final argument you could make to the
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: country about the choice, even if you ultimately cave a
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: few days later.
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: How did you feel about it, Tommy?
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: On one level, it is frustrating, but on another level,
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: I get it. We have no leverage. We have no power. Again,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: I do think this is sort of the problem with
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: the strategy. Like, Trump wasn't willing to give on ACA subsidies. And,
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: you know, in some ways, like the one year extension
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: is the worst version of this because, you know, you
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: give a political reprieve to all the Republican members of
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: Congress who are up in 2026 and then you fuck
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: them after that. Like, who does that really help? It
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: doesn't help us politically. It doesn't help people in the
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: long run. And so you put it forward. Right. Of course.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: But you put it forward to let it fail.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Because then you've made your final.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: I'm saying if you get the deal you put on
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: the table, you're you're you're saving your political adversaries from
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: the kind of worst political outcome.
• 11:18
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: That's my point. So look, I'm with you. Like I'm,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure this bodes well for future funding fights either,
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: or the hopes that we will use our leverage. I'm
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: confused about what happens in January and what that fight
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: will look like. I get why people are mad. It
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: did seem like we had some wind in our sails
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: after the election. I think that, you know, the shutdown
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: had to end eventually. And I think that, I don't know.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: That seems like a bunch of moderates, a bunch of
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: establishment Democrats were like, just kind of wanted this over
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: and they figured it's now or it's later. So let's
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: do it now.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think my biggest beef here is with the timing. Um,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: because I mean, to your point about pain, love it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Like the real pain actually hadn't started yet, which is
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: why I think some of these institutionalists who ended up caving,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not calling the moderates because it really wasn't, there's
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: plenty of moderates who voted against this thing. It really
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: was more like sort of older institutionalists that ended up
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: going with this thing. But I think the reason they
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: accepted this so far is, so federal employees have missed
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: one paycheck. Some have already missed two. They're all about
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to miss two. Some are going to soon miss three, right?
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: The SNAP benefits, they're monthly. So as of November 1st,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: there was a risk that they wouldn't get the SNAP benefits,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: but even that hadn't really kicked in. Air travel has
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: started to become a mess, but it's about to become,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: it would have become really bad come Thanksgiving. So the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: pain was just about to start ratcheting up, which is
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: why I think why, but now, of course, the argument
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: is the point of getting the, the point of the
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: pain is that that's supposed to give you, that's supposed
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: to put the pressure on the Republicans. And so they
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: didn't really get into the period where the pain really
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: would put pressure on the Republicans. So like my, my,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: my thing is like, why not why not tell people that, um,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: you know, Trump and Republicans feel so strongly that people's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: premium should go up, that they are willing to ruin
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Thanksgiving for people, strand all kinds of travelers, um, make
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: children go hungry, make federal workers miss now two, three
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: paychecks in like all this week and next week. And
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: then like let people see and think over Thanksgiving, how
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: fucked up travel is. And then, If Republicans, maybe then
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: they'll get Republicans to cave or to make some concessions
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: on healthcare or, we haven't talked about this yet, to
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: just simply change the Senate rules and get rid of
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the filibuster and open the government that way. Or even,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: by the way, they could have said, we're going to
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: make an exception in the filibuster for opening the government
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: because they've already made an exception in the filibuster for
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: judicial nominations and a whole host of other bullshit things.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: The filibuster has so many exceptions in it now, it's like...
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: I don't get this whole thing about like, oh, they
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: must preserve the filibuster. They could have said like, just
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: for shutdowns, right? So you could have done that for
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks in November and then early December,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: if they're still not moving, you know, then you cave.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is the problem, right? Because everything
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: about what they're saying is we did not want people
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: to experience the pain of a shutdown. And I take
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: them at their word, right? Tim Kaine represents a lot
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: of federal workers. One thing he said to a reporter was,
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: this is the first time I can sleep at night
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: because I can look at Capitol Police officers in the
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: eyes and I don't have to worry about SNAP. But
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: to me, that was a very revealing because, A, you've
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: just sent a message to Republicans about January, which is
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: you may vote for a shutdown, but once the pain starts,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: you're out. Well, then you're not for a shot. Then
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: it's semantics, right? Whether the government is open or closed,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: you're trying to stave off the pain of it. The
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: I presume you could make an argument to those people
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: and everybody hurt by the shutdown, which is the argument
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: Democrats have been making for more than 30 days, which
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: is why I come back to the way they're talking
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: about this is not just an argument that I think
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: empowers Trump, but argues against the decision they made over
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: the last, and for taking this deal, but argues against
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: what they've done for the last 30 days, because we've
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: been making an argument to people who may be hurt
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: by this, which is we don't want people to be
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: hurt by this. We hate that the government is shut down,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: but we're doing it for the long-term benefit of improving
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: our healthcare system and getting people help with the one
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: piece of leverage The second part about this is King
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: makes the argument there and a bunch of them have,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: which is that they wanted to stop the layoffs and
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: they wanted to make sure people got paid. They wanted
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Snap to go out. Some of this is conceding something,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I think, pretty big to Trump in a way that
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: is dangerous. The layoffs Trump has done during the shutdown
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: are on hold because they are lawless. Trump signed a
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: law that said people get back pay after a shutdown.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: The OMB put out a bullshit memo to call that
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: into question. So some of what they're describing as concessions
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: they won are just reaffirming what is already federal law.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: And if you suggest that Republicans gave you something, you're
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: saying Trump's lawlessness makes Republicans more powerful in Congress, which
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: is what is dangerous about every way in which Democrats
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: have said Trump breaking the law during a shutdown makes
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: a shutdown more Less likely to be something Democrats would pursue.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I will say it became pretty clear To me at
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: least over the last couple weeks that Republicans are never
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: gonna give on the subsidies Never it was just not
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: gonna happen.
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: I think that was a foregone conclusion at least not
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: in the context of a shutdown Maybe they'll have a
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: negotiation now, but they were not gonna do it in
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: the context of a shutdown.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I don't even think now I mean Mike Johnson just
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: said like this isn't talking points for us. We don't
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: like these subsidies and I Jake Tapper asked him, well,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: what if there's a bipartisan vote in the Senate and
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: they pass an extension of the subsidies and both parties
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: somehow agree, which is, you know, leave that being pie
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: in the sky aside for a second. Let's just imagine.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: And Mike Johnson's like, no, I'm not committing to a
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: vote on that, even if it's bipartisan. I'm not not
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: committing to a vote on that, but I don't think
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: it ever would have passed the House. Trump could have
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: gone one of two ways after the election results. He
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: could have gone towards like, okay, let's find some kind
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: of a healthcare compromise here to fix it. But instead
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: he went towards the filibuster thing. And so now Democrats
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: could have held out and said, okay, at some point,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Republicans are in a cave on the filibuster. That I
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: think was a possibility. I don't think they ever would
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: have caved on the healthcare stuff.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: I don't either. I don't think there's any chance they're
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: going to cave on the ACA subsidies. I don't think
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: it was a wrong fight to pick because it was
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: good messaging. It's an important thing that we care about
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: deeply as a party, but I don't think they're ever
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: going to cave I think there is a chance when
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: this is all resolved that you see a bipartisan vote
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: in the Senate on something that is a fix that
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: gets thrown over the House. And that puts a really
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: challenging political hot potato in Speaker Johnson's lap. And then
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: we'll see what he does. I don't have a lot
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: of faith in these guys doing the right thing, but
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: we'll see. In the interim, what happened here reminds me
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: a lot of Trump's China trade war, which is he
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: resolves lots of problems created by his trade war. But
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: he doesn't fix any of the underlying problems. I think
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: what Democrats would tell you is their goal is never
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: to create pain in the form of starving people on snap.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: And that's what Trump did. Cause he is fucking Vlad
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: the impaler and a sadist and was willing to do
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: the cruelest possible thing. Like yes, government shutdowns cause pain
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: in like the broadest sense of the word, but it's
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: not starving, you know, people who need food assistance or
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: freezing people in, you know, the Northeast to need LIHEAP
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: funding to like turn the heat on. And I think like,
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: that's where they got squishy. Cause they were like, no,
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: this is actually not what we wanted to do as
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: a part of this they shut down, but the Trump
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: administration was like, all right, I'm going to fire everybody.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: We're going to make this as brutal as possible. And like,
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: they out-crueled us.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: And I will, yes, they did out-cruel us. And I
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: will say, like, I had some Democrats in Congress talk
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: to me who like, not people who voted for the deal,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: but people who voted against the deal and said that like, look,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: constituents were saying to them, not keep fighting in the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: last couple of weeks, but like, hey, totally was with
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you on this fight, but like, I'm struggling to make
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: rent right now. I'm not getting another paycheck. I don't
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: know when I'm going to get paid again. It's really hard,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: like worried about the fact that people are going to
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: go hungry without SNAP benefits. You can definitely fault them
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: for what they did. And like I said, I think
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of different things they could have
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: done differently and done this a different way. But I
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: don't think it was politics that led them to this
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: because the politics were on their side. I think it
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: was like genuine concern for their constituents and the pain.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: And you can say that that's weak. And like, if
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: you're going to go into a shutdown, maybe steal yourself
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: a little bit, but I think, I do think that's
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the reason why.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And on the snap front, right. Snap payments should
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: be going out, but eventually that emergency funding would run out.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Snap runs out in a shutdown. If you go on
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: long enough and they all went into this with a
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: goal and they like committed to a goal that they
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: didn't reach. Now we all talked to, I think like
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: everybody was on like understood like this was a long shot.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: I think if you went back and listened to us
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: talking about this, we were conflicted in every direction and
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: opened our, it was a, Democrats were in a very
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: difficult position. I think I, I also, by the way,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: like part of this is I think the way these
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: eight senators, just a few of them actually have talked
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: about this has made matters worse because I do think
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: there's an argument you can make, which is to say
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: the shutdown drew a ton of attention to doubling of
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: healthcare premiums to the, to the Republican cuts in the
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: big beautiful bill. Democrats played their hand far better than
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: anyone anticipated. They defied political gravity on what a shutdown
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: can achieve. And right as the pain is about to
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: become far worse, they are better to end the shutdown
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: while having won the political argument before people blame Democrats
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: or the blame could potentially shift to Democrats, whether or
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: not that would happen. The other part of it too is,
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: and this to me, I think is like the best
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: politics of it is This allows 39 Democrats in the
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Senate and every Democrat, save one in the House, to
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: oppose the deal and fight the Republicans while doing so
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: in a world where the government is open. And basically
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: eight Democrats plus Schumer get to be the villains in
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: the intra-party fight while everyone else can say, I was fighting,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: I was fighting, I was fighting.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I do think like the way that this played out,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: which is the news breaks, they take the vote, they
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: send out the defectors to make the case Sunday night.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Like the choreography of all that was just so– that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: is what I maybe fault the most.
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: Yes, I agree.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Like if you're going to do this, go out and
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: talk about– look, Republicans just– there's no bottom to the
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: cruelty that they're willing to inflict on people. And there's
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: zero– like none of them ever want to extend the
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: healthcare subsidies. They want– they're in court right now trying
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: to fight to take away food from hungry children right now.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Like they don't care that air travel is– going to
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: be screwed up for everyone. And so their big accomplishment
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: is slashing Medicaid funding for the, for poor people. And that's,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that's just the way it is. And so we're not
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: going to do that. We're just not going to go
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: follow them down that path.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: It's always been that balance.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Now to go back to like what you could have
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: done is like, once we got into a shutdown that
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: was about negotiating over a policy issue, like it was
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: inevitable that we might get to this point. I thought
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: like you, they could have started, and this is more
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: of like a Chris Murphy position. This is like, JVL
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: made this point today in his newsletter. Like you could
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: have started the whole thing being like, you control Washington.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: You have enough votes to fund the government. It's a
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: lawless regime. So we're not going to do it. If
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: you can't fund the government and you need our votes,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: here's our price. If you don't want to pay it,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: best of luck. That's the final offer. This is not
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: a negotiation.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: But that's like, that's a, It's an even more expansive goal.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: I don't understand that argument because it's an even more
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: expansive goal with a less clear outcome that we're never
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: going to get. What are they going to say?
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: No, no. The price would have been the healthcare thing.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: But it's like, no, that's it. If you want our votes,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: then you extend the subsidies. And if not, that's it.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: You fund the government. But we're like, this is your government.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: You control it. You have the votes.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: So I think the argument for this is where that
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: leads is Republicans have to break the filibuster. And once
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Republicans have broken the filibuster, look, they could have opened
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: the government anytime they wanted. They didn't.
• 23:22
  Speaker 8: Why?
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Because of the filibuster. That is not because they have
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: some great reverence for the operations of the Senate. And
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I don't even think it goes so far as to
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: them worrying about what happens if Democrats ever become empowered again.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: I think there's a bunch of Senate Republicans who understand
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: that without the filibuster, they are holding the line and
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: they do not want that. And then all of a
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: sudden they have to break the filibuster in order to
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: reopen the government, which is why I do think you
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: would end up with some sort of like fake breaking
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: of it.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: So they could avoid the responsibility for it. But then
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Democrats do not own any of this. But at the
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: same time, it means Democrats have kind of given up
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: some power in all these negotiations because.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Power we didn't have is the problem.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Right. Well, then you get back to what they would
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: call the concessions they got and whether or not those
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: were worth it. And I probably agree with you that
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: you come down on.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: It's hard to describe what they like. Oh, we're going
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: to get a vote on on health care. It's like, OK,
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: we just had a vote on health care. It's called
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: the one big, beautiful bill. They're on record. We already
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: have them on record.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I will say back to like the time I think
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: you made this point at the beginning. Like there is
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: a case for we are where we are right now.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Here's why it's not the end of the world. Like
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: there's a good argument to be made that we have
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: made in previous pods on this. that taking healthcare off
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the table by extending the ACA subsidies would have been
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: a political.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: Gift to Donald Trump and the Republicans.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't be an issue in the 26 midterms and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: voters would either forget Democrats won that fight for them
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: or Republicans could have run ads saying they worked with
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Democrats to help lower healthcare costs. And now Republicans will
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: have to vote against ACA subsidies in a couple months
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and it'll be one of the most salient issues in
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: 2026 in an election that will be about affordability, and
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: voters will very clearly know who's on which side. And
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: the anger at Trump, which has been fueled by affordability
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: concerns that brought down his approval rating, that's not going away.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: The anger at Republicans, which cost them the off-year elections,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: that's not gonna go away either. And so it sucks
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: that we're here, but I think looking forward, it's not
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: the end of the world here.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I get why people are pissed. I'm not
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: happy about it either. personally just felt like this was
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: a foregone conclusion since this thing started and we'd end
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: up at this place anyway. And I think what we'll
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: be talking about in a year from now in the
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: 2026 midterms is impossible to predict. And we should not
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: think for one second though, that what we were talking
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: about today will be what we were talking about then.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: We just probably won't.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: I just worry now that we have set ourselves up for,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: January's coming. We're going to vote on funding the government again.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: We have said that we were doing this to get
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: the healthcare funded, we're going to have a vote that
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: will all but surely fail. Then we will have the
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: vote in January where we've just, where a group of senators,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Democrats have said, we can't abide the pain of a shutdown,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: removing any leverage we would have had into that fight.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: So I think, I guess where I land now is
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: we won this debate in a way that's really impressive.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: And I think we should not be turning a win
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: into a loss in how we talk about this, though
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: we will. Democrats, that's our favorite thing to do. What
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: I worry about is have we, in the way that
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: this came about and in the way that it was
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: put forward, put ourselves in a worse position for the
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: next fight.
• 26:39
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that, I mean, again, having a vote
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: in January on ACA subsidies and having it fail and
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: then saying, okay, well, this is why we should vote
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Republicans out of office is the same as like, imagine
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: we got a vote in January on raising the minimum
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: wage or anything else that Republicans are going to knock down,
• 26:56
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• 28:25
  Speaker 1: all the rage directed towards the senators who cut the deal,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: many Democrats are also quite angry with Chuck Schumer, even
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: though he voted against it. The argument being that as leader,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: he should have been able to hold the caucus together.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: He clearly knew about the deal. Right before we recorded,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: there was some piece in Axios saying that actually Schumer
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: convinced these senators back in October to hold off on
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: reopening the government at least until November, until open enrollment
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: in the elections. And so he didn't, you know, trying
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: to show that Schumer really was against this. Already, though,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: a growing number of House Democrats have called on Schumer
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to go, including Ro Khanna, Mike Levin, Seth Moulton, and
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Mark Pocan. Hakeem Jeffries said he still supports Schumer, and
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: there haven't been any calls for him to step down
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: coming from his fellow senators, at least not yet. What
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: do you guys both think about how Schumer handled this
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and whether he survives?
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think Chuck Schumer is Tim Robinson in
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: the hot dog costume saying, like, we're all trying to
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: figure out who did this meme. You know, it's like
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: he voted against the bill, sure, but I think he
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: orchestrated it. With senators he knew were going to retire
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: who weren't up. And I just, I don't believe this
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: spin for a second. I like big picture. I think Schumer,
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: I think he's lost his fastball. He's not a good communicator.
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: He still doesn't do a good enough job, I think,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: of passing. the torch to senators who are good at
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: communicating and putting them out front. I don't know if
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: he's good at internal politics anymore. I think they hung
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: tough for a shutdown. They didn't do a bad job here,
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: but I don't know. It hasn't gotten us much. I
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: think Democrats have a gerontocracy problem. It was most acutely
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: felt with Joe Biden, but Biden was far from the
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: only reason for that opinion of us as a party.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: I don't think Chuck Schumer is helping. And I think
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: we need some generational change. At a time when we
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: have no power and no party leader, people look to
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: congressional leaders more so than normal, and they're not getting
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: great party leadership.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I'm trying to separate out how Schumer managed
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: this specific episode versus the weakened position he was going
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: into it and how that made his job much harder.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: But obviously, that's a big problem too. So what would
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: you want a leader to do in a moment like this?
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: So he's voting no, but eight of his members did
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: this negotiation. So did you give them tacit permission, but
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: you're afraid to tell the public that? Or do you
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: genuinely have no control over what the members of your
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: caucus do. Now, I think it is likely the former,
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: which means why not just tell the truth? And there's
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: this way in which when Schumer is defensive and under
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: siege and feeling weakened and like he doesn't have his
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: sort of flanks covered, that he hides a bit, right?
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: That's why he doesn't tell us how he voted in
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: the New York mayoral election. And I'm sick of bringing
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: it up.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: That is the last time I will bring it up
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: probably for at least a day. But then he pulls
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: this move where this deal is done. It is all
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: older or retiring or members who are not up. The
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: rest of the caucus can shit on it. The House
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: can shit on it. He gets to shit on it.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: But wouldn't we want a Senate leader who can kind
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: of stand behind the decision that they made? And so
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: then you think, well, why is he in this weakened position? Well,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: you know, there's a whole bunch of calls for Schumer
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: to step aside when they didn't pursue a shutdown fight
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: a few weeks months ago. He doesn't have a lot
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: of like enthusiastic support on the left. There's a lot
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: of people who feel like, as to Tommy's point, he's
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: not a great communicator. He hasn't kind of empowered anybody
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: to be the party spokesperson despite him. And so this is,
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: I think, the consequence of having a weak leader. Like,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know that a different person would have gotten
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: to a different outcome, but maybe if we had a
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: leader who could go out there and just simply just
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: defend this and just speak honestly about it and treat
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: everybody like adults without being so worried about his own position.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: like collectively we'd be in a kind of better political spot.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I have no idea if he blessed the deal,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: if he orchestrated it or not, but like you don't
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: really need to know that to know that if you're
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: the leader, like you're supposed to be able to keep
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: the caucus together on something like this. That's sort of
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: a test of leadership. And, you know, I don't think
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: he has that kind of support right now. I do
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: think he's lost his fastball. And now, like, calling on
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: him to go, right? You'd need 24 votes and a
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: candidate for a leader, for a new leader right now,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: you know, we're heading into a midterm cycle. Like how
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: much does it matter in the next year, whether it's
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer, first of all, the likelihood that Schumer, that
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: someone out Schumer in 26 before the midterms seems extremely low.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like you're going to get 24 votes
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: in that caucus or that you have someone else who
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: is like willing to challenge him. I do think this
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: becomes more of an issue after 26, especially if for
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: somehow we should take this, especially if we somehow take
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the Senate back and, um, need a, and then it's
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: the majority leader and not a minority leader. Then I
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: definitely don't think we should have Chuck Schumer. Um, and if,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: if 27 rolls around and we somehow have the Senate,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: because I do think like there could, there, there probably
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: was a time when you could be just a really
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: good tactician, good at internal coalition politics. and not as
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: great a communicator and still be fine. But I think
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: in 2025, like being a great communicator is a prerequisite
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: for every job in politics, particularly leadership jobs, like the
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: president of the United States, the Senate leader, the House leader, right?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Like I just, I kind of think that's table stakes
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: at this point.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember there's like an old adage from when
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: like we were all working in the Senate, which was
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: the Senate makes the majority leader look like an idiot.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: and always makes the minority leader look like a genius.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: That was like an old saying about just the way
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: the Senate works. I would like, I hear that like, oh,
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: like he's, you know, he's maybe not the best spokesperson,
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: but we don't see what's going on behind the scenes.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: I'm not like.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like much is going on.
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: Well, like with Pelosi, right?
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Like Pelosi, like I don't think Pelosi was the best
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: communicator like to the public, but clearly behind the scenes,
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: she had extraordinary respect for from Democrats across a bunch
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: of political divides, including Republicans, Democrats, left, right. People understood
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: that she had a genuine talent for keeping the caucus
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: together and thinking about strategy and getting everybody moving in
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: the same direction.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: She did have an amazing appearance on Morning Joe in
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the summer of 24.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Beautiful. Talk about communication. But even that moment is
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: like a perfect example of someone who understands like kind
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: of a certain kind of politics where she said Joe
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Biden hasn't made up his mind yet. So I think
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: he has. Nope, he has not.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: Like there's there was just that she had that thing.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: And.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Tell me if I'm wrong. Have you seen any behind
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: the scenes, in front of the cameras, off the record?
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think Hakeem Jeffries is the most effective communicator,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: but he, through this process, held the House Democrats together.
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: Look, I would just say, if you compare Chuck Schumer
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: to Harry Reid, who is not seen as the greatest communicator,
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: in fact, he was quite bad, but he was seen
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: as having an iron grip on the Democrats in the Senate,
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: did a better job of it. Chuck Schumer, what I've
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: heard from people is that he's up in 2028, Um,
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: he's not going to run again, but he wants to
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: resign as minority leader. And I just think like, that's no,
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: that's how we got into this place. I don't think I,
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: I no longer give a shit what people, if someone
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: wants to be in a certain position until the end
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: of their career, like, are you effective or not? In
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: this moment, I would argue that he is not particularly effective,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: but I'd love to see a younger generation of people
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: move into leadership and take over leadership roles. I want
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: to see it in the house and I want to
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: see it in the Senate because that's all we got.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: And it's not that there aren't great communicators in the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Senate Democratic caucus. who were like, you know, moving up
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: through the leadership ranks.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: And by the way, like just on top of that,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: you think it's so great to hang on. You're about
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: to have a bunch of democratic candidates run against you
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: across the country. You already have Plattner doing that. You're
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: going to see more.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: It is because a bunch of McMorrow and Abdul in
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Michigan both said that they wouldn't support him.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of people who think that the reason,
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: you know, the DSCC is coming down in support of
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: certain candidates is because those are the candidates that who
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: have said that they'll support Chuck Schumer for leader. Now,
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: I don't know that to be sure, but that is something,
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of churn out there.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Mark Kelly was asked today if he would support Schumer
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: as leader again and was noncommittal.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: And by the way, like, just to take the other
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: side of this too, if there are a bunch of
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Senate Democrats who thought they never should have done this
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: shutdown in the first place, fine. If you had a
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: leader that had a little more confidence at the caucus,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: maybe they wouldn't have done this at all. Right now,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: I don't think that's right, but like, there's just no
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: sense in which you feel like Chuck Schumer has You just,
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: he's like, where are my people going? So I may
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: leave them.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: That's just every day with that.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Trump. Trump's reaction to the shutdown deal
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: was an angry post on Monday morning where he attacked overworked,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: exhausted air traffic controllers who took time off during the shutdown,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: threatened to dock their pay and told them to retire.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: That should make us all feel safe and sleep well
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: at night. This is because he's the kind of president
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: who feels people's pain, you know. which he also demonstrated
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: when asked about his plans to tackle the number one
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: issue on voters' minds right now.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: Let's listen.
• 37:38
  Speaker 8: Our energy costs are way down. Our groceries are way down.
• 37:41
  Speaker 8: Everything is way down. And the press doesn't report it.
• 37:45
  Speaker 8: So I don't want to hear about the affordability because
• 37:48
  Speaker 8: right now we're much less. If you look at energy,
• 37:51
  Speaker 8: we're getting.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Don't want to hear about the affordability. I don't want
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: to hear.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: About the affordability. Ma'am, every once in a while he
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: just gives you a little bit.
• 37:57
  Speaker 8: Of a gift.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Trump then pivoted from dismissing people's concerns to promising
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: things he probably can't deliver. He's now saying that he'll
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: be using tariff revenue to send a $ 2, 000 check to
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: every middle and lower income American. This appeared to be
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: news to soybean farmer Scott Besant, who told George Stephanopoulos
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: on Sunday morning that he hadn't talked to the president
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: about this and said the tariff revenue could just end
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: up paying for, quote, the tax decreases that we are
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: seeing on the president's agenda, which would not in any
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: way be a rebate check. He's basically saying that the,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: in the, in the big, beautiful bill, the tax cuts,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you could say, oh, well, they're being paid for by
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the tariff revenue.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: He specifically said the taxes, the, the no tax on tips.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. From the, yeah, from the bill. It's, it's very weird. Uh,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Trump said again on Monday in the oval that he's
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: considering these checks, but he also said, um, in a
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: post that the money left over would be used to
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: pay down the deficit.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: I'm going to do it all.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: You guys think they'll find a way to make these
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: dividend payments happen? They would have to be passed through Congress,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: we should say.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of Americans. There's a lot of us.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: You're going to mail $ 2, 000 checks to half the country.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of money.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: $ 600 billion.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: And the revenue from tariffs does not. Cover that nowhere.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Projected to raise about $ 300 billion.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's $ 220.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So far they've raised $ 100. They're projected $ 300. It would
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: be $ 600 billion to do the checks.
• 39:25
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: And so whatever the number they end up, even Besson
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: admitted this, that the goal of tariffs, by their own logic,
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: tariffs are not meant to raise increasing money. The point
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: is to raise less money as it causes a change
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: in where products are made. So there's no money to
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: do this and pay down the deficit. So that's ridiculous. Now,
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: does that mean they're not going to come up with
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: some cockamamie way to describe some policy in the future
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: as a rebate? Who knows? I will say he is
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: He's keying into something here, which is that people view
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: the tariffs as being very bad, and he's trying to
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: make the tariffs something that is politically positive. And the
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: way he's thinking about it is, what if he gave
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: the money out? He's trying to come up with some
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: way out of the mess he's created.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: I just think he's thinking back to COVID, and people
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: love the STEMI checks they got. It was wildly popular,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: and he put his signature on those. He'll probably put
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: his fucking face on this one if he does it again.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's probably not going to happen. Congress needs
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: to pass a law. There's not enough money. Certainly not
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: enough money to not means test it and then pay
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: down the debt afterwards. Like what are we even talking about? Also,
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: the Supreme Court could strike down the use of emergency
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: powers to collect tariffs, which would be another $ 100 billion
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: or so gone. But who knows? We'll find out.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder how that would work because if the–
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I mean who– I think Amy Coney Barrett during oral
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: arguments was like the whole rebate process here would be
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: quite a mess because– If they strike them down and
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: they have to rebate a bunch. Oh, God.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: Can you imagine? Well, they have to give back to
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: the businesses. The importers, I guess.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. So unless Trump thinks he's going to. So
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: there would be no money for this or much less
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: money for this if Supreme Court strikes it down. Also,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: a bill like this was introduced last year, I think,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: by Josh Hawley. It went nowhere because Republicans had no
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: appetite to hand out a bunch of checks during a
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: time of inflation.
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: Well, there's still inflation, right? It could lead to more
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: inflation for sure.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to Tommy's point too, he is trying to find
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: ways to put his name on, like, you know, they've
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: just cut a trillion dollars in healthcare, but he does
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: this deal with the GLP-1 people, so you have to
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: go to trumprx.com to get your discounted Manjaro and ZetBound.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: So he's trying to find ways to get his name
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: all over these little, these moves.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: And your fertility drugs so you can make more Trump
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: babies before the mission.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: I swear, over my, I will. As much as I
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: love Manjaro, and I would love a discount over my
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: dead body, will I go to TrumpRx.com? Over my skinny
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: dead body, will I go to TrumpRx.com?
• 41:54
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  Speaker 1: we do know that after last Tuesday, Trump's facing growing
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: criticism from people in his own party over his lack
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  Speaker 1: of focus.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Welcome.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Where have you been? On Sunday, Sean Davis, the co-founder
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: of The Federalist, posted quite a Twitter rant. That's too
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: long to read in full here, and why would we?
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: But the gist was that Trump should focus less on
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: foreign policy and more on the economy. Quote, Republicans right
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: now have no accomplishments, no plans, and no vision. Why
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: on earth would anyone be excited to go vote for
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: them 12 months from now? Davis echoed the concerns being
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: expressed in a flood of press appearances by potential 2028
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: presidential candidate Marjorie Taylor Greene. And sure enough, just before
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: we recorded this, she tweeted that the president is spending
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: too much time on foreign policy instead of health care.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Is Trump welcome to the White House? A former al
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Qaeda leader who is now the president of Syria. Trump
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: responded by saying in the Oval on Monday that MTG
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: is a, quote, nice woman who's, quote, lost her way.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: and has, quote, some kind of an act going.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: Interesting.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Do you guys think this backlash could become a real thing?
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: I didn't see that one.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Or do you think it's just a momentary flicker?
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: It feels like a flicker to me. Look, we just
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: know that Sean Davis is like one of those people
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: whose tweets are so mean, you think, that man seems
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: genuinely unwell.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I blocked him a long time ago, so I was
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: not aware.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: Of this tweet at all. I'd also note that Marjorie
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: Taylor Greene is not wrong. Like, politically speaking, she's absolutely right.
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump is spending too much time flitting around the world,
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: thinking he's doing world peace and just, you know, making
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: it up. Look, I do think we all remember the
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: growing backlash around the Epstein files. They went away eventually.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: These guys all tend to find something to be mad
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: at Democrats about and not Republicans. I think what Sean
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Davis is saying there is basically a repeat of what
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: we heard around the election, which is Trump has failed
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: to do enough on inflation and affordability to the point
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: where even his own political director was like, yeah, now
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: we're going to focus on affordability. The problem is always
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: going to be, though, that Trump doesn't give a shit
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: about any of this. I mean, he goes to Mar-a-Lago
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: where millionaires or billionaires are tell him that he's great
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: because the stock market is up or the crypto market
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: is up or whatever. At the Great Gatsby Party. Yeah,
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: and then they go eat lobster and stone crab with
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: some flappers. Well, do you see the people doing synchronized
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: swimming in the Mar-a-Lago pool?
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, very nice.
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: So that's a new thing. I hadn't seen that. So
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: they're all just divorced from the reality of normal voters.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: He's loving the foreign policy stuff. Yeah, the foreign policy
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: stuff gets some headlines, right?
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Former Al-Qaeda guy. Money in the bank, too.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Did you hear him talk about the Al-Qaeda guy when
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: they were like, What about his background as al-Qaeda? And
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: he's like, he's had a rough background. Rough background. Humongous
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: hasn't had a rough. We've all had rough backgrounds.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Good looking guy.
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: Look, I should say, like, I support trying to, like,
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: remove sanctions on Syria and trying to bring al-Shara into
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: the fold. Like, I don't think it's a bad policy,
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: but certainly it's not what, like, your average swing voter
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: gives a shit about.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Also, not to go all hypocrisy, but, like, just imagine.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: what the right would be saying if Joe Biden or
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama did that.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: That's not even the hypocrisy I thought you were talking about.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: The short list of people for whom Donald Trump has grace,
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: we'll get to the pardons later, but Argentinian beef farmers
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: and fucking former Al-Qaeda. Meanwhile, they're shipping Uber Eats drivers
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: to prison in El Salvador. No grace for undocumented people
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: who committed no crimes.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Zelensky's in the Oval Office and J.D. Vance is like,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: have you said thank you yet?
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: By the way, though, it is... So I remember... I
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: remember they pulled it out and put it on Fox
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: News because whenever we would talk about Biden negatively, it
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: would like make it out. But like, it was amazing
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: how at the end of his time, Biden started acting
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: more and more like Trump. And now here we are
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: in the Trump administration and he is bitching about how
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: the media isn't covering how good the economy is. And
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: he's one step away from screaming, I'm the guy that
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: did AUKUS. It's unbelievable. And so, yeah, like, by the way, like,
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Is this back, like is, could the backlash become real? Like,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: I think we are in a very real backlash.
• 47:22
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: Like to Tommy's point, there's an Epstein cycle and the
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: news moves on and there's an affordability cycle and the
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: news moves on. But each time he's coming out of
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: these fights a little bit weaker and his approval is
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: a little bit lower. Like he is in a much
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: worse position at the end of this shutdown. Like this,
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: this Republican infighting is real. And I actually think it
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: like the, as we head into the midterms, it like,
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: there's an even bigger and deeper existential problem, which is,
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: this is going to put together two things. One, the
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: fact that Donald Trump isn't doing enough to address the
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: core reason he was elected. But at the same time,
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: it's how do Republicans run in a world without Trump?
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: And both of those problems are going to be like,
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: they're going to be impossible to tease out from each other,
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: which are going to make both of them worse. And
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: so they are headed towards a cataclysm, which they lose, ideally,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: which they could lose a bunch of seats in the
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: midterms while having no sense of an agenda or kind
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: of defining the Vision outside of just defending Donald Trump.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I also think like the Epstein files is an attentional issue,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: which if you hold out long enough, hopefully it goes
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: away and it fades from the headlines and affordability is
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: the big watchword that everyone's talking about. will do the
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: same at some point, but people will still feel that
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: everything is very expensive and be pissed. So you might
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: get back like the Sean Davises and the- I was
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: talking about the MAGA elites, right? Who are like pissed
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: off and popping off on Twitter. They'll move on and
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: realize that they should still attack Democrats, but people and
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: even MAGA voters are going to be like, what the fuck?
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: Normal people are like, hey, my groceries are so really
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: expensive and you're hanging out with Al-Qaeda guy.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I'm the guy that brought the stands into the Abraham Accords.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: Have you seen the new presidential walk of fame?
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's now gilded. Affordability isn't the only thing the
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: right is fighting about right now. We talked briefly last
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: week about how Tucker Carlson's friendly interview with avowed white
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: supremacist Nick Fuentes caused an uproar among MAGA media types
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: like Ben Shapiro and touched off a big internal fight
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: at the Heritage Foundation. Just in case anyone needs a
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: refresher on Nick Fuentes' views, here's what he said in
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: a March episode of his own podcast. Quote, Jews are
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: running society. Women need to shut the fuck up. Blacks
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: need to be imprisoned for the most part, and we
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: would live in paradise. It's that simple. Well, just a
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: week after Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: defended Carlson and hedged about Fuentes, he told staff, it
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: in all hands that he made a mistake, quote, period,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: full stop. He then threw his chief of staff under
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: the bus for good measure. That didn't stop the National
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Task Force to Combat Antisemitism, some members of which had
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: already resigned, from severing ties with Heritage. The disagreement went
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: full bravo on Thursday when Ben Shapiro made an appearance
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: at Megyn Kelly's live show in Jacksonville, just after Tucker
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Carlson appeared at Kelly's show in White Plains, and Shapiro
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: didn't hold back.
• 50:02
  Speaker 10: What I saw Tucker do was not whitewash his ideas,
• 50:05
  Speaker 10: but try to put bumpers up on the guy. I
• 50:07
  Speaker 10: know Tucker well, and I think that was his approach.
• 50:09
  Speaker 10: And the way, if you want to put a bumper
• 50:11
  Speaker 10: up on Nick Fuentes, is it helpful to say, you're
• 50:15
  Speaker 10: fucking vile, you're an anti-Semite?
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't.
• 50:20
  Speaker 9: If I see somebody breach basic moral values by having
• 50:24
  Speaker 9: on a Nazi, and in my own view, you can
• 50:26
  Speaker 9: take your own view, in my own view, gloss the Nazi...
• 50:31
  Speaker 9: then I'm going to speak out about that, and I'm
• 50:33
  Speaker 9: going to point out that there is a long pattern
• 50:34
  Speaker 9: of him ideologically laundering terrible ideas over the course of
• 50:38
  Speaker 9: the last two years, saying last week that the Venezuelan
• 50:41
  Speaker 9: regime of Nicolas Maduro is actually not that bad because
• 50:45
  Speaker 9: they're being attacked by, in his words, globo homo.
• 50:49
  Speaker 10: Tucker's made the point, I'm not going to adhere to
• 50:50
  Speaker 10: be Tucker's defender, but he's made the point that Maduro
• 50:53
  Speaker 10: is culturally conservative.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Who gives a shit?
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: That's a great conversation.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: It was great. It was great.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: I love Megyn Kelly booking that back-to-back.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: We all watched the Ben one. I saw we were
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: all watching the Tucker one.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: We're fiends.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: We deserve that today.
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah. This controversy is a grower and a shower at
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: the moment, but it will continue to grow.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: And the only question is, is it circumcised?
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: I think we know that.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: That's the battle.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: I would say the other one's like, okay, again, MAGA
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: elites could stop talking about this. Maybe Tucker will move
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: on because Gaza's not in the news. Maybe Ben Shapiro
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: will be focused on something else.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: But Nick Fuentes is not going anywhere.
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: Like his standing is growing. He's getting more followers.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Which Tucker said to Megan, yeah.
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: Yes, his political standing is growing by the day. Nothing
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: is planning that rise. And like, Megan Kelly was like,
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: I think Tucker's goal was to put bumpers around Fuentes
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: and constrain him. That is not what happened in practice.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: Like Nick Fuentes has an audience, but Tucker has a
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: bigger one. And Tucker introduced them to the most sanitized,
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: sandwashed version of Nick Fuentes you could find. And like,
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: I see a lot of, Fuentes clips. And it is
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: not just like dudes chanting Sig Heil on their way
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: to the Unite the Right rally listening to this dude.
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: He gets questions from his audience and these kids will
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: be like, me and all the dudes at my frat
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: house at like name some SEC school listen to you, right?
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: Like that is the audience, like men under 30. And
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: I think the thing, like people talk a lot about
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: Fuentes being a racist and an anti-Semite and a misogynist.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: He's also violent. He's a violent person. Here's another quote
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: from his show. there's an occult element at the high
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: levels of society and specifically among Jews, uh, dot, dot, dot.
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: And more than anything else, those people, when we take power,
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: they need to be given the death penalty straight up.
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: They must be absolutely annihilated when we take power. This
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: is God's country. This is Jesus's country. This is not
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: the domain of atheists or devil worshipers or perfidious Jews.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: This is Christ country. End quote.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: Like that.
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: And this was not said with a smile. He was
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: not kidding. This was dead serious. It's like a violent Nazi.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: And, I finally listened to the whole Tucker Fuentes interview
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: and it's like Tucker did there. And then he tried
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: to do it again with Megan, which he keeps trying
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: to make it all about Israel. And his whole thing
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: is like, it's just about like views on Israel and separating,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: you know, anti-Zionism from anti-Semitism. Like it's this whole thing.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: And he doesn't even in, in two hours with Nick
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Fuentes doesn't touch any of the stuff you mentioned, Tommy,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: just then the stuff that I quoted from March, any
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: of his other views on any of the other stuff.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: And it's like, why would you not, if, if, If
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: you're taking Tucker at his word here, why would you
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: not interrogate him on all the other fucking bullshit that
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: he said? Yeah.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: You think because you can't take Tucker on his word here.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: I was really glad I watched the full Ben Shapiro
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: conversation with Megyn Kelly because Ben is like excellent in
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: this conversation at kind of taking down Nick Fuentes and
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: making a very like logical and methodical argument about why
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: you don't like teach the controversy with someone like Nick
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Fuentes and attack the danger that this idea poses. And
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: the point that he makes is it's not only kind
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: of dangerous to society, that he thinks it undermines the
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: conservative movement, which I'm glad he's making that argument. And
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: Meghan tries her best to defend her friend, Tucker Carlson,
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: with this idea of bumpers. I don't really understand what
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: the bumpers are. Is it that- Is she.
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: Wearing guardrails or something?
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, you can see from the clip,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: but I think she was trying to make the point
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: that Tucker Carlson, if he just had Nick Fuentes on
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: and was like, You're an anti-Semite, awful, this, that, the
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: other thing, and just started yelling at him. That's not
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: going to convince anyone. But it's like there's a space
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: between that and what Tucker did, which was just a
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: pretty friendly interview where he gently pushed on, well, you
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: don't believe in collective punishment of people, right? Like that
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: was a very.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: But the other part of it is that Tucker has
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: had revisionist historians about the Holocaust and World War II.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: On his show, the point that Ben makes and when
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: he talks to Megyn Kelly is about Tucker Carlson's evolution
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: over the last two years. Well, he spoke at the
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: Republican convention and it was much less than two years ago.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: Like Tucker's transformation has been ongoing and he has been
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: a big part of MAGA, which is why I think
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: it's very good that Ben's doing this. But he also
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: is not, I think, grappling enough with the ways in
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: which this is already inside of the Republican party. Donald
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: Trump had a meal. with Nick Fuentes and Kanye West, right?
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Like this is somebody that has already gotten inside of
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: the gates. And that's like, to me is what is
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: a harder thing, I think, for someone like Ben Shapiro
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: to reckon with. But I think at least this is,
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: I think, making a clear line that this person should
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: not be included. And by the way, like there is
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: no justification even for doing the harder version of the
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: kind of debate with someone like Nick Fuentes. You either
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: describe it as vile and antisemitic and Nazism and all
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: the rest, or you are treating it as if it
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: is legitimate, like Kevin Roberts can Some days came, that's cancellation.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: Some days not, whatever he says now, I don't know.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: But you cordon that shit off because these people do
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: not believe in, he's not in it for a debate
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: to try to win an argument. To Tommy's point, he'll
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: go off and say, look what I did. I got
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: on Tucker Carlson and got in front of all these people.
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: This is something you must excise like a cancer. This
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's autumn, and it's
• 56:17
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• 57:40
  Speaker 1: All right, we had a few quick legal updates for
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: you on Monday and some good news. The Supreme Court,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: you don't hear that in the same sentence often, declined
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: the chance to overturn Obergefell v. Hodges, its landmark decision
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: legalizing same-sex marriage. The case was brought by a former
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: county clerk in Kentucky turned conservative micro-celeb who refused to
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. after the Supreme Court's
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: original decision 10 years ago. The potentially worse news from
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: the court, they will hear a challenge to the Mississippi
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: law that allows counting of mail-in ballots received up to
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: five days after election day. The court has already taken
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: up a challenge to mail-in voting rules in Illinois in
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: a case that could open the door for Trump allies
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: to change all kinds of voting statutes they don't like.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Thoughts on either of these cases?
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: I'm glad the court didn't take up Obergefell. I think
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: like on the one hand, I do think people were
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: drumming up this fear of this Kim Davis thing because
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: it was always a long shot and, like, she's nuts.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: But there was a coverage that was very, like, Supreme
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: Court on the verge of.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Kind of stuff. And every time you looked at the coverage, though,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: there were no real hints that the court wanted to
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: take it up.
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, I do think it, like,
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: that doesn't mean there aren't several justices who would be
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: willing to overturn Obergefell. And I do think sometimes people don't,
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: people try to sort Amy Coney Barrett into the, like,
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: She's right wing and she is. And I think she
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: has a lot of really bad views. But I do
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: think she's more intellectually honest than the rest. And she said, like,
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: I don't, I worry that if she were to take
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: a case like this, she would overturn it. But one
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: point she made when she was being confirmed is there
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: are a lot of cases we won't take, right? Like,
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: and I do think like, it's the strange thing where,
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: I'm sure there are members like Alito and Thomas who
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: are itching for this because they want to overturn it.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: I think she's someone who's not itching for this because
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: she would have to overturn it.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if we had a court full of Alito and Thomases,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: I think this would go. But we don't so far.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with you. I'm glad they didn't try to
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: reopen this case. But, man, I don't think that right-wing
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: groups that are attacking Obergefell are done. And especially if
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: the court changes its makeup at all. They'll be back,
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: I'm sure. I mean, I do think that one of
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: the mail-in ballot cases that they took up is pretty
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: worrisome because it could be ruled in a way that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: leads to just a flood of lawsuits that make it
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: harder for people, especially Democrats, to vote. Especially, you know,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: people in, let's say, Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee, Atlanta, if mail
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: service is slowed and a bunch of mail-in ballots get
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: in late and all of a sudden all those people
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: are disenfranchised.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: You know, like that's kind of the goal here. And
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: the hope is that it's not just those people. Rural
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: areas especially would be disenfranchised because mail can be slow there.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: And the people who would probably be most disadvantaged are
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: members of the military who, you know, are overseas often
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: and their ballots are often counted after Election Day. I mean,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: the whole thing is going to turn on the meaning
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: of the word Election Day and the idea that. voting
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: before election day, but it getting there after election day
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: is some like election day now is before election day.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: That's what the court's going to say. Like it just doesn't,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make a lot of sense, but this is
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: one that, um, that the right has been pushing for
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: quite some time.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: I also just, it goes into the category of ways
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: in which there could be chaos that bad actors take
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: advantage of when it comes to certification, seating people, et cetera.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Which, you know, maybe the optimistic case would be at
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: least they're taking it before and going to decide it
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: well before the, uh, the next set of elections. both
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: in 26 and 28, so that there isn't that confusion,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: but we shall see. Yeah, it's just a methodical effort
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: to make it harder to vote.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, endless.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: We also learned Sunday night that Trump has pardoned a
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: number of his election subversion co-conspirators, including former White House
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: the fake electors who were involved in part of the scheme.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: These pardons are either symbolic or preemptive because there were
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: no federal charges against any of these people.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Preemptive in kind of like a rainbow unicorn hope sort
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: of way. And like under this department of justice.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, maybe, maybe the next one, you know, um, and,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: and the state level action against them right now will
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: not be affected by this because you can't, a president
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: can't pardon you for state crimes. Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: Those are all kind of like, there's a bunch of
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: those are like stuck or falling apart, man.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Ed Martin, the, uh, you know, like eagle-eyed Ed there, the, uh,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: the January 6th, uh, former January 6th lawyer, who's now
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: the weaponization guy, he announced all this. On Twitter by saying,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: leave no MAGA behind.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: Reply to himself, right? Reply to his own, leave no
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: MAGA behind. Yeah, I mean, I think the takeaway from
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: this set of pardons and the January 6th pardons that
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: happened earlier on is that Trump has just reminded us
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: over and over again that he cares more about his
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: grudges and his ego and his personal vendettas and his,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: you know, anger that he lost the 2020 election more
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: than his political standing. People probably won't hear about these moves,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: but they wouldn't be popular. None of this makes any sense.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: It's also just a classic dictator move. Like, you don't
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: like history? Get out that pencil. Let's start to rewrite it, right?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, hopefully by 2030, we won't be
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: like China where you can't Google Tiananmen Square.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: It's about history. It's also about the future. It's a signal, right?
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: No doubt.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Because if it doesn't really have teeth because of the
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: reasons we just talked about, it's, hey, if you commit
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: a crime in my name, for me, I will take
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: care of you.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: Which is the real danger. It sends a message to
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: anyone considering doing a little federal election fraud that Trump
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: has got your back. The timing is also very weird.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: Do you see this Blaze story?
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: The Blaze is a Glenn Beck's thing. They claim to
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: have figured out who planted the pipe bombs on January 6th.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: They named a specific person who has not been named
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: by law enforcement based on what they call gate analysis,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: which is video of you walking fed into some software.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: This is either a big scoop or the most open
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: and shut defamation case in a long, long time. So
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: we're not going to say that person's name, but weird.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: A wild bit of reporting. The gate analysis. I have
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: a strange game.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could be tied to something.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: I could be tied to something based on my gait,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: Or if you just did like a silly walk, you'd
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: be fine.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta walk backwards like in a David Lynch show.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Who's next on the pardon list? Potentially Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Epstein's confidant and co-conspirator. A whistleblower has told Democrats on
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: the House Judiciary Committee that Maxwell is going to ask
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Trump to commute her sentence. The same whistleblower also revealed
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: that Maxwell is receiving, quote, concierge-style treatment in the minimum
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: security prison facility that she's been transferred to. including customized meals,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: after-hours gym time, and the permission to play with a
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: puppy who another inmate was training to become a service dog.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: The whistleblower said that a top prison official complained that
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: he was, quote, sick of having to be Maxwell's bitch.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: In a letter to Trump on Monday, Jamie Raskin, the
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: ranking Democrat on Judiciary, demanded information about the commutation, including
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: asking Deputy AG Todd Blanche to appear at a public
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: congressional hearing and called on Trump to reject Maxwell's appeal. Meanwhile,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Democrat Adelita Grijalva The Arizona representative elect who Johnson has
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: declined to seat during the shutdown is finally likely to
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: get sworn in this week, meaning she'll become the 218th
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: signature and the last one needed on Thomas Massey's discharge petition,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: which would force the House to vote on making the
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: Epstein files public. So no health care subsidies, but maybe
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: yes on the Epstein file. Also, do you think Democrats
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: should make a big deal out of the concierge style
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: prison treatment for Ghislaine Maxwell?
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: I read in preparation for this, I think it was
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: in The Guardian, an excerpt of a woman named Virginia
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: Giuffre's book. She's an Epstein victim who died by suicide
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: earlier this year. She writes about how she was recruited
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: by Ghislaine Maxwell when she worked at Mar-a-Lago when she
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: was 16. The first massage she was forced to give
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein was with Maxwell in the room, who was
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: like massaging with her as part of the grooming process.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: Then they assaulted her the first of many times. Then
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: they started trafficking her out to their friends, including Prince Andrew.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: Like Ghislaine Maxwell is just as much a villain as
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein. She is not a lesser person. Like she's
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: a disgusting human being. She's vile. And the idea that
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: like this woman is getting sweetheart treatment, getting to play
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: with a puppy while in prison on the way to
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: a commutation is insane.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: And for what other reason than the one that we're all,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: the one reason that everyone we've been thinking.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: They've never explained it. They've never bothered to explain it.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: They don't, they're not getting questions about it anymore. I
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: presume they'll get some questions about this. Now she, they
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: transfer her to a nicer place without justification. Now apparently
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: she gets a puppy. Elizabeth Holmes is staring down at
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: the same food every single night. She looks across the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: fucking mess hall or whatever. And there's Ghislaine Maxwell with
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: pierogies or whatever. And it's like, Unbelievable.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: It's shocking.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Americans just being thrown in detention by ICE for days
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: at a time without being able to call their families
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: who didn't do anything and completely innocent. But Ghislaine Maxwell
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: is taken care of.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: It also just like commuting her seems like the most
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: damaging political thing you could possibly do.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: I know Trump. Or second most politically damaging thing that
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: could happen. Whatever the fuck she would say if that
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but like, I don't know. She would have said
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: it by now. Who knows? I don't get it. I
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: don't get it.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: I don't either. Maybe when the Epstein files are finally released,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: when the discharge petition happens, we'll find out. One other
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: news item you may have missed. On Sunday, Trump became
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: the first sitting president since Jimmy Carter to attend a
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: regular season NFL game. And he did it in high style,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: complete with an Air Force One flyover of the Washington
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Commanders Stadium and a live swearing in of new service
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: members during halftime. But the crowd wasn't exactly thrilled with
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: Trump's appearance. Here's what it sounded like. You can see
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: in the photos that someone right below Trump's box is
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: giving him a double bird. Solid. So what do you
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: guys think?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: Maybe they're from Philly. I think they're saying you.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: Right. They're saying. I like that they're trying to use
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: a military swearing in to prevent getting booed. And everyone
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: there was like, uh-uh.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 8: No, no.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: We see it through this one.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: It's a stadium full of federal workers whose city has
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: been militarized by the president.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they absolutely hate him. I mean, like there's a
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: lot of this that I find very annoying with the
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: hypocrisy makes me insane. For years, Republicans told athletes to
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: stick to sports. Remember, LeBron James was told to shut
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: up and dribble, stop bringing political messages into sports. Trump
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: yelled at players for kneeling every single Sunday. By the way,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: players who are paid to be on the field and
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: earned the right to be there. And now Trump just
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 4: shows up at every sporting event. He makes it about himself.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: And then in 2013, Obama said the Washington Redskins should
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: change their name. Trump tweeted the following. President should not
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: be telling the Washington Redskins to change their name. Our
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: country has far bigger problems. Focus on them, not nonsense.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: Unless that name is the new Trump Stadium. Yeah, the
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: Commander's Stadium.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: What did you guys think about that story that ESPN
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: reported that the Trump people have approached the team's ownership
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: about naming the stadium after him? The team didn't comment,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: but Caroline Leavitt didn't deny it, saying it would surely
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: be a beautiful name.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: We're just so through the fucking looking glass. What is
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: there left to say? Trump pardoning people that tried to
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: overthrow the election is like a 24 24-hour story. The
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: president is trying to name football stadiums after himself. And
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: everyone's like, well, it sounds like a good idea to me.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: I'm sure that given that Trump threatened the team if
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: they didn't change the name, I am sure there are,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: you know, everyone has to treat him with kid gloves
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: and welcome him, be excited for him to come, humor
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: him on whatever ridiculous cockamamie proposals he's talking about. Like,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: this new patio is beautiful, Mr. President, that kind of thing.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: And it's all just embarrassing and pathetic. But like, there's
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: just too many of these at this point.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm going to put his face on the flag.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: Is that the next?
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: I can see that. I think it's a currency talk, right?
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: I was going to say the currency talk, but that actually, yeah,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: some jackass in Congress was like, yeah, let's put him
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: on a new $ 200 bill or something.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: This is, again, that's one thing the filibuster can stop.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: So that's good.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: I just also, I always go back to the Shane
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: Gillis at the ESPYs speech. Trump does not know ball.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: He has no idea what he's talking about. I was
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: listening to the play. I played it right before he
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: came in because he did like 10 minutes in the booth.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: He says, it's going to be a very important couple
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: of plays. It was second and seven. Um, then he goes,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: we'll see what happens, which is what he always says
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: about everything. Uh, then he's like, this is a very
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: important play. Don't you think the commanders were down 22 points? Uh,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: he said the commanders are a very good team. No,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: they absolutely suck. They're three and seven and their quarterback
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: had this disgusting elbow bent the wrong way injury last
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: week because they left him in, in garbage time of
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: a game when they were getting destroyed. Like Their receivers
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: are out. Their cornerbacks are out.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: The Commanders fucking suck.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: He's like, oh, it was a very important game. It's
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: been a very good team. No, absolutely not. Also, all
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: the Lions fans out there should be ashamed at Amon
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: Ross St. Brown doing the stupid Trump dance looking like
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: a goober. Then he got punched in the face by
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: a linebacker, DN maybe, a couple plays later.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Tommy's just directing this directly at Austin Fisher.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: I like the Lions, and I'm a big Dan Campbell fan,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: and Amon Ross St. Brown's an awesome receiver, but that
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: was dorky and lame. So anyway, stay at our sports, Don.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: It is so funny that like, it's more obvious to
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: like sports fans when he does it here, but it
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: is what he does with just about everything. You know,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: it's like literally every conversation he has, he knows how
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: to get through it by just being like, yeah, it's unbelievable.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: It's great. People are saying it's amazing. It's amazing.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: Running back has ball. We'll see what happens. Oh, incisive.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: Last thing before we go. A huge thank you to
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: all of you who came to CrookedCon.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: Hell yeah.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: What a time. Attendees, speakers, sponsors, volunteers. It was a
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: wild success.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: So much fun.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: I'm still like blown away by like our team put
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: it together. We just showed up and talked a lot
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: and yapped. But the team at Crooked just did a
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: fucking incredible job.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: Come be a producer on a podcast where we sit
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: in the studio and talk. And also pull off a 2,000-person
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: event where we change the venue 45 days out.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 8: Go.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: Shout out. Sophie and everybody on the team here just
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: did an unbelievable job.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: Also, like, I don't know what other, uh, what other
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: big conference you could find Andy Bashir and Hassan Piker
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: at the same time. It was just like the, the
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: mix of people that we had there. Um, the diversity
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: of views of backgrounds and like in the Atlantic.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: And it was, don't get me started.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Don't get me started. It was, it was just like,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: it was so great to, be in person with people
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: who like we've been on each other's podcasts. We've been
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: talking to each other online, sometimes fighting online for like
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: the last several years. And then you meet these people
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: in person for the first time. You're like, oh, I
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: feel like I know you, of course. But now we
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: get to actually hang out. It was wonderful.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: And I'm sure Jessica Tarlow was getting shit for taking
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: a picture with Hassan back at Fox News HQ.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: I did ask her, I was like, how many segments
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: do you think Jesse's going to put up that picture
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: when you go back to work on Monday?
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: Jesse did like 10 minutes on our, we programmed his
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: whole show Friday night. It was just on our panels.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about doing Cricket Con years ago. It's
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: something that we've been thinking about for a really long time.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: And I just feel really proud of the team that
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: we got to the place where we could put on
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: something so big. We've all been to conferences before.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: I'll just be honest.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: And like, I never really thought that much about what
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: it takes to put them on. You know, you show up,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: you get your little sandwich box, you know, you think
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: your badge and you will show up, you make your
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: little jokes, Trump ad, whatever. And then, but like, it
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: was an extraordinary, like, like Herculean task to put this together.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: And had it been half the size and gone less well,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: we would have called it a success. And like, this
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: was a huge undertaking that went so well. And I
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: do think it really is like, like proof of concept
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: and the need for something like Cricket Con, like a
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: big gathering space for like the big pro-democracy and progressive coalition.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: And like, we will keep doing it. We can have
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: room for more people next time.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: Everyone gets like a day off and then tomorrow.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like December 26th, elves. Take the day, get
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: a good night's sleep, Austin. CrookedCon 2026 planning starts tomorrow, bitches.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: It's in January. There was some of the coverage.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: Sophie's crying somewhere.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, she definitely is. There was some of the
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: coverage that was like, did the Democrats solve their problems
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: and actually create a big tent? Of course not.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: That was never like on the table.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Not the goal. Not the goal.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: I can't overstate how important and valuable it is to
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 4: just have people meet together and face to face as
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: human beings. It really does matter. Republicans do it all
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: the time. They have CPAC. They have all sorts of
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: events and conferences. They have CPAC in other countries where
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: they trade notes with, you know, Americans. And I think
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: this is really just fun and valuable.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Well, if you couldn't make it and you want to
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: hear all the conversations and all the other fun stuff
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: that happened at CrookedCon, go to CrookedCon.com. We'll be posting
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of content there. And we're going to be
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: posting some select conversations in this feed and on YouTube.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: Right now, as you're listening to this, if you're in
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  Speaker 1: so far that has two outstanding panels. There's my conversation
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  Speaker 1: against the administration. And then if you listen to that
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: same episode, the latter half of the episode is Tommy's
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: conversation with the top strategists for Zoran Mamdani, Mikey Sherrill,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: and Abigail Spanberger. Both of those went out Sunday. There's
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  Speaker 1: details on our next CrookedCon coming to you in 2026.
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  Speaker 1: That's our show for today. Dan and I will be
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  Speaker 1: America is a Cricket Media production. Our producers are David Toledo,
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