Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / DEAL WITH THE DEVIL: BRYAN KOHBERGER PLEA DEAL, NO DEATH PENALTY

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DEAL WITH THE DEVIL: BRYAN KOHBERGER PLEA DEAL, NO DEATH PENALTY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace breaking news tonight, a deal
0:10
Speaker 1: with the Devil. Brian Koberger gets a plea deal? What
0:17
Speaker 1: does it mean? No death penalty? What did the families
0:23
Speaker 1: of the victims learn? Everything contained in a letter? Are
0:28
Speaker 1: you kidding me? They find out about the deal with
0:34
Speaker 1: the devil by letter of emergency.
0:44
Speaker 2: You don't know what.
0:49
Speaker 1: She's not waking up? They saw some men in their house?
0:56
Speaker 1: What happened that night at the king Wrote address where
1:02
Speaker 1: four beautiful University Idaho students were stabbed dead? Now we
1:09
Speaker 1: will never know the audacity of taking a plea deal
1:18
Speaker 1: with the devil? Brian Coburger without the families consent, I've
1:27
Speaker 1: never heard anything like it. With me and all start
1:33
Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we are learning right now.
1:36
Speaker 1: But I got to tell you, I'm crushed. I'm crushed,
1:43
Speaker 1: and I can only imagine what the victims' families are
1:48
Speaker 1: going through. You know, I thought I knew it all
1:51
Speaker 1: about grieving and mourning and suffering when my fiance was
1:55
Speaker 1: murdered shortly before our wedding. But now that I have
1:58
Speaker 1: two children, nothing, nothing could be worse than this being
2:06
Speaker 1: done to your child, and then you have no voice
2:11
Speaker 1: no voice at all about a plea deal? Is this America?
2:19
Speaker 1: How has this happened? Does the prosecutor not hear the
2:26
Speaker 1: crying the whales of the victims' families with me a
2:34
Speaker 1: loyal and all star panel that has analyzed, examined, investigated
2:41
Speaker 1: this case from day one straight out to Dave Matc
2:48
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave, I can't believe this. I
2:53
Speaker 1: cannot believe this. I feel like I've been kicked in
2:56
Speaker 1: the stomach and in the teeth at the same time.
3:00
Speaker 1: I expect shenanigans on the part of the defense. I
3:04
Speaker 1: expect that there can be one bad apple on the
3:07
Speaker 1: police force or on the investigation team, but this for
3:12
Speaker 1: the prosecutors to go behind the victims' families back and
3:18
Speaker 1: offer a plea deal. To Brian Coburger, what happened, Dave.
3:23
Speaker 3: Mack Well, Nancy. It looks like after the defense laid
3:30
Speaker 3: out their possible alternative suspects idea and the judge rejected it,
3:36
Speaker 3: that they reached out to the prosecution and said, get
3:40
Speaker 3: us a deal, and the prosecution we're after consulting with
3:48
Speaker 3: the families briefly and getting a negative response from at
3:51
Speaker 3: least two of those families still turned around and, as
3:55
Speaker 3: you said, made a deal with the devil that even
4:00
Speaker 3: the best possible outcome for him and for the love.
4:05
Speaker 3: All I can think of is these families and what
4:07
Speaker 3: they're dealing with right this minute. Their hearts are broken,
4:10
Speaker 3: their souls are crushed by a decision that just compounds
4:13
Speaker 3: the pain.
4:13
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand what you just said, Dave Night.
4:16
Speaker 1: You said they. Now I believe you and I have
4:19
Speaker 1: discussed that we use proper names, not he she they Okay,
4:24
Speaker 1: who reached out to who for a deal?
4:28
Speaker 3: Brian Cooberger's defense team reached out to Brian Dick Thompson,
4:34
Speaker 3: the prosecutor of Leta County, and asked for a deal.
4:38
Speaker 1: So what does that mean to me? Every defense attorney
4:41
Speaker 1: drags up the hall at the courthouse wanting a deal,
4:44
Speaker 1: a sweet deal, and they start off with, hey, can
4:47
Speaker 1: I have straight probation? This guy's really he's a really
4:50
Speaker 1: good guy. Yeah, that's how it always starts, right, And
4:53
Speaker 1: then they go up and they go up. So what
4:55
Speaker 1: so what they wanted a deal? That means nothing to me?
4:59
Speaker 1: Of course they want a deal, that's a given. They
5:01
Speaker 1: want a deal. I mean, so the defense asked for
5:05
Speaker 1: a deal, and so what the state just been over
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Speaker 1: a barrel and said go to it.
5:10
Speaker 3: They said, take the death penalty off the table and
5:13
Speaker 3: we're in. And that is apparently what has happened. The
5:19
Speaker 3: guy was staring for murders, death penalty, firing squad. We've
5:24
Speaker 3: done shows about the possible ways of him being taken
5:27
Speaker 3: out if convicted, and after everything we've seen, it looks
5:33
Speaker 3: like at the finish line, you're getting ready to go
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Speaker 3: to trial and they say, take the death penalty off
5:39
Speaker 3: the table and we'll sign.
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Speaker 4: Off on it.
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Speaker 3: And that is apparently what happened. I say apparently because
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Speaker 3: I wasn't there or involved with any of the discussions,
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Speaker 3: I can only go on what had actually transpired in
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Speaker 3: the last twenty four hours.
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Speaker 1: Everyone, let's take a listen to a little bit of
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Speaker 1: what we know happened in the hours surrounding the murders.
6:00
Speaker 1: A four Idaho students, four students dead and now I
6:06
Speaker 1: got to give this guy three hots and a cot
6:08
Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. Wow, he has the
6:11
Speaker 1: opportunity to make book and movie deals, have online girlfriends.
6:15
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? Listen?
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Speaker 5: Tell me exactly.
6:18
Speaker 1: What's going on.
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Speaker 3: One of our one of the roommates who's passed out
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Speaker 3: and she's drunk class and she'dn't wake me up.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
6:27
Speaker 3: Oh and they saw some man in their house house night.
6:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hian, are you with the patient?
6:34
Speaker 5: Okay?
6:34
Speaker 6: I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
6:38
Speaker 4: Can I just tell you what happened pretty much?
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Speaker 1: What is going on currently as someone passed out right.
6:43
Speaker 4: Now, I don't really know what pretty much for him?
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Speaker 5: Okay, So I need to know what's going on right
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Speaker 5: now if someone has passed out.
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Speaker 3: Can you find that out, y'all.
6:52
Speaker 1: I'll come come on with the new doical check, but
6:56
Speaker 1: we have to joining me longtime friend and colleague Cold
7:01
Speaker 1: Case Investigative Research Institute founder and host of a new
7:05
Speaker 1: hit podcast, Zone seven, Cheryl McCollum joining me. I've never
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Speaker 1: heard anything like it in a case of this magnitude
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Speaker 1: or any case, any case at all, to completely disregard
7:23
Speaker 1: what the victims' families want because you're afraid to go
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Speaker 1: to trial. Really, he says, if what other reason could
7:30
Speaker 1: there be to do this to the families of the victims.
7:35
Speaker 1: How could I mean, if you're not there to help
7:38
Speaker 1: the crime victims, why are you there. Why don't you
7:42
Speaker 1: go get a job in a law firm and sit
7:45
Speaker 1: in the library and research all day. You know, if
7:48
Speaker 1: you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
7:51
Speaker 1: If you can't do battle, get off the battlefield. I'm
7:54
Speaker 1: just I've stunned Cheryl.
7:57
Speaker 3: Nancy.
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Speaker 6: Arguably, a quadruple homicide is going to be one of
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Speaker 6: the most important cases of your career. How does each
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Speaker 6: family not have a victim advocate in contact with them?
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Speaker 1: Put her up? How Cheryl McCallum, frankly, pardon my latin,
8:18
Speaker 1: but screw their careers. This is not about anybody's career.
8:23
Speaker 1: Screw that. This is about what is right and what
8:27
Speaker 1: is wrong and representing the victims. The victims don't want
8:33
Speaker 1: is so why is it happening? Nancy?
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Speaker 6: It's unimaginable. And that's why I'm saying this was not
8:40
Speaker 6: taken in the breath that it should have been, that
8:44
Speaker 6: you're going to send somebody an email, That there was
8:47
Speaker 6: not a call made, that there was not an in
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Speaker 6: person meeting where everybody is together to understand what the
8:54
Speaker 6: offer was and whether or not it was going to
8:55
Speaker 6: be accepted or rejected. As a group, as they this
9:01
Speaker 6: happened to a group of people. It should be under
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Speaker 6: every possible consideration that these moms and dads and siblings
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Speaker 6: have a say here.
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Speaker 3: Period.
9:12
Speaker 1: The infuriating letter that prosecutors send the families of the
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Speaker 1: Idaho murder victims informing them that there is a plea
9:24
Speaker 1: deal and nothing they can do about it. Okay, joining me,
9:29
Speaker 1: You know him well, Philip Debay, high profile defense attorney
9:34
Speaker 1: out of LA debate. I'm not arguing with you right
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Speaker 1: now about the state versus the defense, the evidence. I'm
9:43
Speaker 1: talking to you about common courtesy right. You cannot enter
9:48
Speaker 1: a plea deal without your client, the defendant, agreeing, can you.
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Speaker 7: No, of course not. It's his right to the plea,
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Speaker 7: it's his right to the trial that he's giving up,
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Speaker 7: and it must be voluntary. But what a lot of
10:00
Speaker 7: people don't know is that the law does not require
10:04
Speaker 7: the concurrence of victims or victims next of kin in
10:08
Speaker 7: settlement negotiations or the outcomes of plea deals. There are
10:12
Speaker 7: to be looped in advised as to what's happening, but
10:16
Speaker 7: they are not a party to the negotiations or the
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Speaker 7: ultimate plea agreement. And as alienating as it might sound,
10:25
Speaker 7: it is simply not required. I think the only reapourse
10:28
Speaker 7: that voters have right now is the ballot.
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Speaker 1: Hey, you know what, Debay, You're right, there's nowhere in
10:34
Speaker 1: the law that says you have to coordinate your plea
10:38
Speaker 1: deal with the victims family. Yeah, there's no law saying that.
10:42
Speaker 1: There's no common law, which is case law, stating that
10:46
Speaker 1: it's neither statutory in the code, in the written letter
10:49
Speaker 1: of the law, or in the common law, which is
10:52
Speaker 1: case law. But in a murder case, I'm asking you
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Speaker 1: a yes no question debate when you enter a plea
11:05
Speaker 1: in any felony, name it, I don't care what it is,
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Speaker 1: any felony, isn't it true? Debate that you must have
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Speaker 1: the consent, the agreement, the cooperation of your criminal defendant.
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Speaker 1: That is a yes no debate.
11:24
Speaker 4: Yes.
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Speaker 1: So what that means is, while a criminal defendant set
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Speaker 1: to plead guilty, who is guilty of murder, of any
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Speaker 1: felony it could be car theft, they must agree and cooperate.
11:41
Speaker 1: Not so for the violent crime victims family. It doesn't
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Speaker 1: matter what they think. Have you ever, Chris McDonough, in
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Speaker 1: your life, heard anything like the stunt, the double deal,
12:01
Speaker 1: the backstaff, that has gone on in this case, with
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Speaker 1: the victims' families all opposed to this deal, would you
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Speaker 1: even consider it? No?
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Speaker 5: And in fact, you always want to have the cooperation
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Speaker 5: of the family as you enter back into that courtroom.
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Speaker 5: And to add, you know, salt into the wound. How
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Speaker 5: about restitution for the family.
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Speaker 4: You know, I know what.
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Speaker 5: I've seen these families so many times. What are they
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Speaker 5: thinking today? Right, Nancy? How much did my child cost?
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Speaker 5: Is that the question the prosecution's ask them, And that's
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Speaker 5: part of the deal. It's just a bad situation all around.
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Speaker 1: Now, it's very interesting, guys. That's Chris mcdunna speaking. He
12:52
Speaker 1: is former homicide detect who has worked over three hundred
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Speaker 1: hardcore homicides over his twenty five year career plus more.
13:02
Speaker 1: He is a host of the Interview Room where I
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Speaker 1: found him on YouTube. To renowned author Howard Bloom joining me,
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Speaker 1: the author of the definitive work on this case. When
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Speaker 1: the night comes falling a requiem for the Idaho student murders, Howard,
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Speaker 1: I'm in shock. I couldn't believe it when I heard
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Speaker 1: there is a deal and the families disagree. Now, Howard,
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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have liked it or agreed with it, even
13:33
Speaker 1: if the families had gone along with this, but I
13:36
Speaker 1: would bow to their decision because of course I defer
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Speaker 1: to them. I can't believe the state has done this.
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Speaker 1: I'm stunned, and I very rarely go against the state
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Speaker 1: because I believe prosecutors generally have reasons for what they
13:56
Speaker 1: do that we may not understand. Very often I question, well,
14:00
Speaker 1: why this count and not that count? Why that strategy?
14:03
Speaker 1: Why did you say that? But I know that they
14:06
Speaker 1: know ins and outs of the case that the public
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Speaker 1: doesn't know, and they may very well have their reasons
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Speaker 1: for what they do. But I don't see a reason
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Speaker 1: for this.
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Speaker 2: I mean, the state's behavior was at best cavalier and
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Speaker 2: at worst, I agree with you, reprehensible. But what I
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Speaker 2: think is interesting is why the fence at this point
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Speaker 2: decide to make a deal, and when I'm hearing is
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Speaker 2: about families too. Early on, Coburger had been approached by
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Speaker 2: his attorneys about making a deal and his mother was
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Speaker 2: against it, dead set against it. She wanted to come
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Speaker 2: to trial. Now that the trial was approaching, it looked
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Speaker 2: like Coburger's parents were going to have to go on
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Speaker 2: the stand. This was told to him. His mother would
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Speaker 2: have to talk about the telephone call she got at
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Speaker 2: six am Idaho time, nine am in Pennsylvania that went
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Speaker 2: on for about ar hour, just after the murders, and
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Speaker 2: she would have to say what was going on there?
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Speaker 2: Does she have any suspicions? His father was going to
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Speaker 2: have to talk about the cross country trip they took
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Speaker 2: and what was discussed during that trip, and to protect
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Speaker 2: his family. When this was presented to Coburger, Coburger finally
15:17
Speaker 2: was convinced by his lawyers and maybe he should make
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Speaker 2: the deal. That's what I've been.
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Speaker 1: Hearing, Howard Bloom. Do you think I care about that
15:27
Speaker 1: family that they don't want to take the stand. So
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Speaker 1: I don't care that Coburger's family doesn't want to take
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Speaker 1: the stand. Do not care? They still have their son.
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Speaker 1: They can visit him, he can write books, he can
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Speaker 1: write letters, he can do FaceTime. He will be in
15:46
Speaker 1: their lives forever, whether they want him to be or not.
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Speaker 1: I'm talking about what this has done to the victim's family. Remember, then,
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Speaker 1: you're raising the question is how did.
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Speaker 2: This deal come about? How are they finally able to
16:07
Speaker 2: make a deal. I think you know the families of
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Speaker 2: the victims are going to be victims forever. It's a tragedy.
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Speaker 1: It's horrible.
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Speaker 2: How did this come around that a deal was made?
16:19
Speaker 2: What did the prosecution see that they were willing to
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Speaker 2: make this deal? Was it just about saving money or
16:24
Speaker 2: are they that cynical for the state? Did they actually
16:26
Speaker 2: think they could lose this case? What was going on here?
16:29
Speaker 2: I think those are interesting questions too.
16:32
Speaker 1: You know, they've got DNA, They've got the defendants d
16:39
Speaker 1: n A deaxaribo nucleic acid at the crime scene, on
16:45
Speaker 1: the sheet of the murder weapon underneath a victim, and
16:50
Speaker 1: they're pleading what they don't want the bother of going
16:55
Speaker 1: to trial. I just all along. I have been to
17:00
Speaker 1: them in court. I've been watching everything they do. They
17:03
Speaker 1: seem like they were in it wholeheartedly. But now at
17:07
Speaker 1: the eleventh hour, basically on the eve of trial, they
17:11
Speaker 1: take a plea, a plea that infuriates, that destroys the victims' families. Why.
17:17
Speaker 1: I cannot think of a single reason why. You know what,
17:20
Speaker 1: let's have a little refresher joining US doctor Kendall Crown's
17:24
Speaker 1: chief medical Examiner, Tyrant County. That's fort Worth. Never a
17:28
Speaker 1: lack of business there. He is the esteemed lecturer at
17:32
Speaker 1: the Burnett School of Medicine, and he is a star
17:37
Speaker 1: of podcast Mayhem in the Morgue. Doctor Kendall Crowns, could
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Speaker 1: you explain how these four young students with their lives
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Speaker 1: before them at college, Like, you know what I'm going
17:55
Speaker 1: through right now with the twins trying to get in college.
17:58
Speaker 1: They're entering their senior year of high school right now.
18:00
Speaker 1: Which one is the best, which one would help them,
18:02
Speaker 1: which one would be better for each one of them?
18:05
Speaker 1: Which one is a safe campus? And when you get
18:08
Speaker 1: them there, you're like, oh, thank you Lord in heaven.
18:12
Speaker 1: They're going to have a good life. This is all
18:14
Speaker 1: I can do to ensure them that they'll be educated
18:17
Speaker 1: and they'll be able to make their way in the world.
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Speaker 1: They're not going to be digging a ditch for Pete's sake,
18:23
Speaker 1: hurting their back, breaking their limbs and they're stabbed dead
18:29
Speaker 1: in their beds now evidence that one of the girls
18:33
Speaker 1: tried to run for her life and was stabbed on
18:36
Speaker 1: the stairwell. What happened physically to these victims, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
18:45
Speaker 8: So each of the victims has multiple stab wounds about
18:48
Speaker 8: their body. And the problem with stab wounds is one
18:51
Speaker 8: stab wound isn't necessarily going to incapacitate you right away,
18:56
Speaker 8: so there will be kind of a running fight. The
19:00
Speaker 8: rules will try and fight back, they may grab the
19:02
Speaker 8: knife in a last ditch attempt to stop the stabbing,
19:05
Speaker 8: but they receive multiple stab wounds each and that means
19:09
Speaker 8: each one of those stab wounds created pain and suffering
19:12
Speaker 8: that ultimately resulted in their death. And the one that
19:14
Speaker 8: got up and ran, that meant she was pursued through
19:17
Speaker 8: the hallway with the fear of this individual coming after
19:20
Speaker 8: her and then finally getting up on her and then
19:23
Speaker 8: finishing her off by stabbing her again multiple times. So
19:27
Speaker 8: every one of them suffered quite a bit because stabbing
19:30
Speaker 8: cases are usually quite horrific and have a lot of
19:33
Speaker 8: violence associated with them.
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Speaker 1: Daughtor Kimmel Crowns, You really gave me the airbrushed version
19:39
Speaker 1: of that. A lot of pain, Yeah, I know, there's
19:43
Speaker 1: a lot of pain. They're stabed dead. They're practically somnambulant,
19:48
Speaker 1: half asleep, half awake, they can't breathe, their lungs fill
19:52
Speaker 1: up with blood. There's stab wounds on their legs, all
19:59
Speaker 1: of this somehow deriving from Coburger's bizarre fetishes about raping
20:06
Speaker 1: women that are drug passed out or asleep. What was
20:12
Speaker 1: their deaths? What were their deaths like?
20:18
Speaker 8: So their deaths would be basically, they're losing blood over
20:21
Speaker 8: a period of time. They've got the multiple stab wounds,
20:25
Speaker 8: They're bleeding internally, their chest cavities are filling up with blood.
20:29
Speaker 8: If the lungs are involved, which I'm sure there were
20:31
Speaker 8: several of them that had the lungs involved, they're coughing
20:34
Speaker 8: up blood reswallowing it as they're slowly slipping into unconsciousness.
20:39
Speaker 8: In individuals where the chest cavity is compromised, that it'll
20:43
Speaker 8: fill up with blood and it'll make it hard to
20:46
Speaker 8: breathe and essentially you're drowning in your own blood at
20:49
Speaker 8: that moment.
20:50
Speaker 1: Doctor Kimmel Crown's you're absolutely correct, And I hope that
20:55
Speaker 1: when you were teaching all of those medical students at
20:59
Speaker 1: the Burnett School of Medicine that you explain to them
21:05
Speaker 1: what crime victims lived through at the time of their death.
21:09
Speaker 1: And it's not all clinical lives were snuffed out that
21:16
Speaker 1: night and for what to fulfill Brian Coburger's weird fantasies.
21:25
Speaker 1: How do we know about them? Because they were found
21:28
Speaker 1: on a search engine raping women asleep, passed out, drugged, incapacitated.
21:44
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace joining me now. Joseph Scott Morgan,
21:54
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
21:57
Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon and a hit series Body Bags with
22:02
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, everything that doctor Kendall Crowns
22:07
Speaker 1: said is true and more. What happened that night, Joe Scott.
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Speaker 4: This individual gained access to this house, Nancy, I truly
22:19
Speaker 4: believe in my heart of hearts, and no one will
22:21
Speaker 4: ever convince me otherwise that he laid in wait. He
22:25
Speaker 4: had observed this house, he looked for points of entry,
22:29
Speaker 4: and then, for whatever reason, at that particular time, immediately
22:34
Speaker 4: after Xanna had collected that food order, he decided to
22:39
Speaker 4: make entry, and he was purposed to do what he did,
22:45
Speaker 4: ascending I believe to that top floor. First went in
22:50
Speaker 4: and attacked those two girls in that room. He attacked
22:56
Speaker 4: one to the point where she was deceased at the
23:00
Speaker 4: door and was blocking the ability for the other young
23:04
Speaker 4: lady to egress out of that room. So he's got
23:08
Speaker 4: them essentially trapped in there, and he's moving back and
23:12
Speaker 4: forth between them, perhaps wielding this knife. And this knife,
23:16
Speaker 4: for folks that haven't haven't been around a k bar
23:21
Speaker 4: is very robust. I mean, it is a killing knife.
23:23
Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, developed by the Marine Corps.
23:26
Speaker 4: Nancy Day actually had a field manual that taught combat
23:30
Speaker 4: tactics in what CQB close quarter combat with this knife,
23:36
Speaker 4: and this is the weapon of choice here allegedly that
23:40
Speaker 4: he wielded against both of them. One of the newest
23:43
Speaker 4: turns in this whole thing back to Xana is that
23:46
Speaker 4: you know, we were told wrongly by the corner. I
23:52
Speaker 4: think two days afterwards she gave a press conference or
23:56
Speaker 4: spoke to a reporter where she said that they all
23:59
Speaker 4: appeared to be sleep in the bed. No, this was
24:01
Speaker 4: a dynamic situation. Something drew or upstairs. And if now
24:06
Speaker 4: we are to believe what happens, Xanna was attacked on
24:09
Speaker 4: that staircase, and of course we know that her boyfriend
24:13
Speaker 4: Ethan downstairs was equally attacked. We had heard or report
24:18
Speaker 4: earlier that not only may he have been stabbed, but
24:22
Speaker 4: also his throat had been slashed an in size one
24:27
Speaker 4: which adds a completely different level to all of this.
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Speaker 4: The brutality of this. You can't take the measure of it.
24:34
Speaker 4: You can, you can in the morgue, obviously, but when
24:38
Speaker 4: you contextualize these bodies at the scene and you see
24:42
Speaker 4: the blood deposition and the struggle, maybe broken things, knocked
24:46
Speaker 4: over furniture, you get the full force of this. And
24:50
Speaker 4: you know what, Nancy, I'm so disappointed because I don't
24:55
Speaker 4: know its family will ever truly hear about this. I
24:58
Speaker 4: don't know that we'll ever know truly what happened that
25:01
Speaker 4: night in that environment unless he's compelled to allocut.
25:07
Speaker 1: But we have to She's not waking up whatever.
25:15
Speaker 5: Pretty address of the emergency lead.
25:18
Speaker 1: One one to two King Drugs Emergency. Then and now,
25:23
Speaker 1: as the victims' families reeling over a backdoor deal done
25:29
Speaker 1: without their consent, where Brian Coburger pleads guilty and escapes
25:33
Speaker 1: any possibility of the death penalty. Look, people are divided.
25:39
Speaker 1: Death penalty, no death penalty, but it should at least
25:43
Speaker 1: go to a jury. The victims' families should at least
25:48
Speaker 1: know it went to a jury, then win or lose.
25:53
Speaker 1: At least the state did everything it could possibly do
26:00
Speaker 1: this as night Marrish scenarios play out about what Idaho
26:08
Speaker 1: killer Brian Coburger will now do since he has been
26:13
Speaker 1: spared the death penalty, straight out to renounced psychologists specializing
26:20
Speaker 1: in forensic psychology, doctor John Adelatory, nothing will preclude him,
26:28
Speaker 1: you know. Right now, of course, doctor Dilatory, he the
26:31
Speaker 1: devil is gnashing his teeth and twitching his tail, rubbing
26:36
Speaker 1: his hands together in glee because tonight a deal with
26:44
Speaker 1: the devil has been made, a plea deal with Brian Coper.
26:50
Speaker 1: It tastes like dirt in my mouth right now, dirt.
26:56
Speaker 1: I never thought the state would do this. I thought
27:02
Speaker 1: remote possibility they might lose, but they would have gone
27:07
Speaker 1: down fighting. Sweaty, dirty, bloody, bruised, but fighting. That's what
27:15
Speaker 1: it means to be a trial lawyer. If you're not
27:18
Speaker 1: up for it, then get out of the ring, throwing
27:22
Speaker 1: the towel. Nothing will prohibit Brian Coburger from lounging in
27:28
Speaker 1: his private cell, riding his online girlfriends, writing his memoirs,
27:35
Speaker 1: making money off his art. I almost feel like I'm
27:41
Speaker 1: going to be sick. Explain night marriage scenarios spinning out
27:50
Speaker 1: in my mind about how he will be cuddled, he
27:55
Speaker 1: will be treated like a hero behind.
28:01
Speaker 9: I'm already sick, Nancy. This was done in the shadows
28:05
Speaker 9: in the night. I mean for what, for what reason?
28:08
Speaker 9: I mean, all they got was the death penalty off
28:11
Speaker 9: the table. That's the only thing that this plea deal
28:13
Speaker 9: has done. So then why do it at all? If
28:15
Speaker 9: you're going to do it, you should have done it
28:17
Speaker 9: at the very, very very beginning of all of this.
28:20
Speaker 9: But instead, now it seems the prosecution is either too
28:24
Speaker 9: cheapest or too cheap to actually want to engage in
28:27
Speaker 9: this trial. And that is the second offense, right, This
28:31
Speaker 9: is the secondary victimization of this entire family.
28:35
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. I hate thinking back on my fiance's martyer.
28:40
Speaker 1: I don't like it. I try not to do it.
28:43
Speaker 1: When I go speak or in certain scenarios, I know
28:47
Speaker 1: I'm going to be asked, and I'm prepared, I'm stealed.
28:51
Speaker 1: But when I think back, I know the prosecutors did
28:57
Speaker 1: all they could. I know that, and I knew nothing.
29:00
Speaker 1: I had never even been in a courtroom until I
29:03
Speaker 1: went and took that witness stand. But I know they
29:08
Speaker 1: did all they could, and that is what I promised
29:12
Speaker 1: every victim I ever represented. I might lose, but you
29:16
Speaker 1: can know I will do everything I can do for
29:21
Speaker 1: you and your loved one that you lost. I will
29:25
Speaker 1: do it all within the bounds of ethics. I will
29:29
Speaker 1: do it all. Now he Coburger will be immortalized. I mean,
29:40
Speaker 1: you know what immortalized like Bundy. We're still talking about
29:46
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy and how brilliant he was. He's a psychopathic killer, perv.
29:51
Speaker 1: That's what he was. And now Coburger will wear the crown.
29:57
Speaker 6: What a disgusting twist if this person just destroyed these
30:04
Speaker 6: four beautiful children's lives but saved his own. But needs,
30:09
Speaker 6: as you have said so many times, if you dance
30:13
Speaker 6: with the devil, he will lead. And trust me, Brian
30:18
Speaker 6: coberg Or has not done this for any reason but
30:21
Speaker 6: a self serving one.
30:32
Speaker 1: Is she breathing? No? Okay, you know there's the old
30:38
Speaker 1: phrase there ain't no justice, and that is how I
30:40
Speaker 1: feel tonight. There ain't no justice, at least for Pete's sake.
30:43
Speaker 1: Take it to a jury, let them decide. But the
30:47
Speaker 1: family instead gets this letter quote. We cannot fathom the
30:50
Speaker 1: toll this case has taken on your family. Really, then,
30:53
Speaker 1: why did you do a deal behind their backs. They
30:56
Speaker 1: told you they didn't want this, but you did it anyway.
30:59
Speaker 1: Brian Cobert now escapes the death penalty in a deal
31:04
Speaker 1: with the devil, and that devil would be Brian Cooberger
31:08
Speaker 1: to Philip Dubay, joining me veteran trial lawyer out of
31:12
Speaker 1: la What many witnesses and victims want in a court
31:18
Speaker 1: room or answers will never have that because you cannot
31:23
Speaker 1: force the defendant to elocute speak and explain in court.
31:29
Speaker 1: You may be able to keep them from taking an
31:31
Speaker 1: Alfred plea, which means I'll take my punishment, but I'm
31:34
Speaker 1: never going to say I did it. You can withhold
31:37
Speaker 1: a plea deal if all they'll plea is by Alfred Hgln,
31:42
Speaker 1: you will admit you did it in front of the victims.
31:45
Speaker 1: But you cannot force a defendant to elocute speak explain.
31:51
Speaker 7: Depends on the terms of the plea deal. Absolutely you can.
31:55
Speaker 7: You can absolutely insist as a prosecutor that he take
31:59
Speaker 7: to the microphone and explain step by step everything that
32:02
Speaker 7: he did on the night of the homicides. He can
32:05
Speaker 7: explain what motivated him, how he obtained the deadly weapon,
32:09
Speaker 7: how he lied and wait and how he then later
32:12
Speaker 7: disposed of the weapon, and how he then later tried
32:16
Speaker 7: to reorder a sheath, and how he freaked out when
32:20
Speaker 7: he found out that DNA was found on that sheet.
32:23
Speaker 7: It can all come in through an allocution. There is
32:26
Speaker 7: no prohibition against it, and frankly I don't think that
32:30
Speaker 7: this is ult from it.
32:31
Speaker 1: But if the defendant insists he will not allocute, cannot
32:38
Speaker 1: be forced to an exactly deal. Like let's just say
32:42
Speaker 1: a witness gets a subpoena. The witness comes into court.
32:46
Speaker 1: If the witness refuses to testify, unless they've got a
32:49
Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment right or some sort or some privilege, they
32:52
Speaker 1: can be forced to testify, or they can be sent
32:54
Speaker 1: to jail until they and give them time to think
32:57
Speaker 1: about it. If the defendant doesn't want to allocute, he
33:01
Speaker 1: may lose a deal, but he cannot be forced to alocute.
33:04
Speaker 1: He cannot be forced to explain to anybody anything. And
33:09
Speaker 1: where this leaves me straight out to doctor John Delatory
33:14
Speaker 1: is the victims never knowing what happened. I know what
33:21
Speaker 1: happened when Keith was murdered. It's been all twisted up
33:24
Speaker 1: in the media, but I know what happened. Keith left
33:27
Speaker 1: a construction site. He was a geology student. He left
33:31
Speaker 1: a construction site on a summer job to go get
33:34
Speaker 1: everybody else's soft drinks because it was a remote site.
33:37
Speaker 1: And when he pulled back in, he was gunned down.
33:39
Speaker 1: He was driving the company truck in the boss's truck,
33:43
Speaker 1: and a disgruntled employee came up and opened fire on
33:46
Speaker 1: the truck and it killed him. He was shot five
33:48
Speaker 1: times in the face, of the neck, the back, and
33:50
Speaker 1: the head. That's what happened. I know that there was
33:56
Speaker 1: a trial. They will never have that piece to elatory.
34:00
Speaker 1: They will never such piece as it is. They'll never
34:04
Speaker 1: have that.
34:05
Speaker 9: No, and we're not going to talk about closure. And
34:08
Speaker 9: you know, all different kinds of experts can all talk
34:10
Speaker 9: about in cells and all different kinds of nonsense. But
34:12
Speaker 9: what the family wants is what's actual and factual. They
34:16
Speaker 9: don't want closures so much as they want the information.
34:18
Speaker 9: They want to know the answer, why why did you
34:22
Speaker 9: do this? Why did you do this?
34:24
Speaker 4: Then?
34:24
Speaker 9: Why did you choose my family? Why did you choose
34:28
Speaker 9: to do this thing and hurt so many people?
34:36
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace and Eerie, A haunting selfie
34:47
Speaker 1: emerges Oh, there you go. Brian Heiberger, dress like Ted
34:50
Speaker 1: Buddy mister button down Oxford shirt. I've got a black
34:54
Speaker 1: hoodie and I don't take freaky selfies in it. Joining
34:57
Speaker 1: me an All Star panel to Jesseice Scott Morgan, profess Forensics,
35:00
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and Star Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
35:06
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, I'm stunned. I'm reeling. I feel numb. When
35:09
Speaker 1: I heard this, I felt like I got kicked in
35:11
Speaker 1: the stomach. At first I thought it was a joke.
35:13
Speaker 4: I felt the same way. I literally I think I
35:15
Speaker 4: got like five techs simultaneously, including from my mother. This
35:19
Speaker 4: group of people that he claimed that he was part
35:21
Speaker 4: of relative to the world of criminology, where he spent
35:25
Speaker 4: all this time as an undergraduate Masters free level student
35:29
Speaker 4: studying under people, and now he's gone out to Washington
35:33
Speaker 4: State and the tool that he created in order to
35:37
Speaker 4: question people with trying to dig into their lives and
35:41
Speaker 4: prison relative to thinking about crimes, Nancy, He's now officially
35:46
Speaker 4: going to be part of that world. And I bet you,
35:49
Speaker 4: I bet you my next paycheck that upon arrival at
35:53
Speaker 4: the State penitentiary he's going to have mail. He's going
35:56
Speaker 4: to have mail from the same group of people that
35:59
Speaker 4: he claimed that he was going to be a part of.
36:01
Speaker 4: And they're going to have questionnaires for him. People are
36:05
Speaker 4: going to want to come and interview them him, and
36:07
Speaker 4: they're going to do it under the guys, under the
36:09
Speaker 4: guys of academic research. It's not an enjoyable thing to
36:14
Speaker 4: be in general pop. But I'm telling you he just
36:17
Speaker 4: like bt K when he allocuted. You could see in
36:21
Speaker 4: his eyes that he enjoyed that recalling every single detail. Now,
36:27
Speaker 4: this guy is going to be given a forum, and
36:29
Speaker 4: I can tell you there are four voices that are
36:31
Speaker 4: silenced permanently, and to even maybe a greater extent, his family.
36:36
Speaker 4: These families voices have been silenced as well because obviously
36:41
Speaker 4: their requests were falling on death ears.
36:44
Speaker 1: And Cheryl, Cheryl McCallum and I have been through a
36:47
Speaker 1: lot together. We came up together in the system inter City, Atlanta,
36:54
Speaker 1: one of the murder capitals of the world. Cheryl McCollum,
37:00
Speaker 1: founder director Callcase Research Institute, and star of a hit
37:05
Speaker 1: podcast Zone seven. Cheryl think it through. You have a
37:12
Speaker 1: boy and a girl. I have a boy and a girl. Okay,
37:16
Speaker 1: follow this through to its logical conclusion. One of them,
37:22
Speaker 1: and I hate to do this to you, one of
37:25
Speaker 1: them is murdered brutally in their sleep. You never get answers.
37:33
Speaker 1: And then spin it out, Cheryl, spin it out, as
37:37
Speaker 1: I like to say, follow it through to its logical conclusion,
37:41
Speaker 1: and then you find out you just happen to be
37:46
Speaker 1: looking online and bam. Notice alert. The killer is going
37:53
Speaker 1: to be zoomed in to a big conference where he's
37:59
Speaker 1: a star, and he's going to be explaining the inner
38:06
Speaker 1: workings of the mind of a killer. He's the star.
38:11
Speaker 1: He's not getting payment. His payment is going to let's
38:14
Speaker 1: just pretend his girlfriend that he's made behind bars his
38:18
Speaker 1: pen pal. He's the star. People applaud for his speech.
38:27
Speaker 1: I mean, why don't we all just get down, bowed
38:32
Speaker 1: down to the devil, because that is what is happening,
38:36
Speaker 1: because nobody had the backbone to take this thing to
38:41
Speaker 1: trial and try the damn case, win or lose. I
38:49
Speaker 1: don't get it, can you? Because you know this is
38:52
Speaker 1: going to happen, right, you know? I mean, I've had
38:55
Speaker 1: to look at Alex Murdog's shirtless selfies for Pete's sake.
38:59
Speaker 1: He has a tap behind bars. This will happen. I
39:03
Speaker 1: don't know how it's gonna happen, just the same way.
39:07
Speaker 1: Did he get a cell phone behind bars he's not
39:09
Speaker 1: supposed to have. Sure like that, it's gonna happen, Sheryl,
39:13
Speaker 1: Let's talk reality.
39:15
Speaker 6: Reality is he thinks by taking the death penalty off
39:18
Speaker 6: the table, he has saved his life.
39:20
Speaker 1: Maybe so what that he was a complete loser in
39:27
Speaker 1: every sense, destroying his own family, his parents, his sisters,
39:33
Speaker 1: the business, his education. He had everything handed him on
39:36
Speaker 1: a silver platter, and this is what he does. I
39:39
Speaker 1: don't care about him. What I'm telling you about the victims' families.
39:45
Speaker 6: Correct, And that's my point. They were never going to
39:47
Speaker 6: get justice even with the death penalty. If he were
39:50
Speaker 6: put to death, that is not in any way comparable
39:54
Speaker 6: to what they lost. Is just more death, It's more sadness.
39:59
Speaker 1: Tonight, Our prayers with the families of the Idaho murtyr victims.
40:05
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, good night friends, m HM.