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How Gypsies Work · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry Roblin. Just a
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: couple of no Man's on the road. Yeah, with our
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: trinkets and our recordion. Uh you know gypsies, tramps and thieves.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: You like my my Share? Yeah? I learned it from
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Jack from UM Oh yeah, was that his Share? Well?
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: There was this one really classic scene where um he
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: meets Share in a restaurant, but he thinks it's like
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: a shared drag queen impersonator, Right, so he calls her
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: like Mr. Sister and like starts giving her porters on
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: how to do a good share. Yeah, he always does
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the hair flip. Right. I love that show. It's a
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: good show. It's it holds up. It's in reruns now
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: it's just as good. Yeah. But yeah, I had this
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: that horrible Share song in my head like while I
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: was um studying, and it just wouldn't go away. So
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I listened to it and now I'm like, no, it
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: just got worse. Uh. Is there a modern PC version
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: that's Roma Tramps and Thieves? No, but in my head,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: you can also say gypsies, Franks, and beans, and it's
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: like kind of neutral. It's better than tramps and thieves.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Good point. But the term gypsy is that a good point.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: It's a terrible point. Don't patronize me gypsies though. The
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: word itself, we're gonna try not to use because it's
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: it's a pejorative term. It is, at the very least,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: it's now considered an ethnic slur uh. And it's in
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: part because it's associated with the concept of being jipped.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Like if somebody doesn't give you a fair deal or
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: something like that, or rips you off or something like that,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: you've been jipped. It's it's short for gypsied. You've been
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: you've been dealt with somebody, right, not the other way around. Right,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: because we believe it came from Egypt. Right, it was
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: a miss misapplication, misunderstanding in the Greek Isles by Josh Clark,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: romance novel. All right, so let's let's get into this.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna say gypsies like you said, Actually that's
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: not entirely true. We're probably going to forget once in
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: a while because we were both raised on shell Silverstein.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Do you remember you may reminded me of this one,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: The Gypsies are Coming, which is it's very difficult to
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: find the original version of the Gypsies are Coming, which
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: is a poem of shell silversteins and where the sidewalk ends.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Because before his death, and I believe that sometimes in
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the nineties or early two thousand's, it was that long ago,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I remember he changed it from the Gypsies
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: are Coming to the Googis or the Googies because he
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: felt that it was mean towards Gypsies, and it kind
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: of is because it's about child stealing Gypsies, which is
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: a rumor um that's been attached to Gypsies forever. Yeah,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: they steal children and use them as props in making
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: in pickpockets schemes. Yeah, there are a lot of, um,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I guess, rumors about the culture, and a lot of
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: them are founded and a lot of them are unfounded. Yeah,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: none of it's just like black and white one way
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: or the other. The Gypsies aren't just some completely kicked
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: around put upon ethnic group. And and at the same
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: time they're not just a bunch of like thieving violin
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: playing marauders, you know. Yeah, So anyway, to get to
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: the point, we'll say Roma as much as we can
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: roma or romany, and we'll even explain why we call
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: them Roma. Shortly it sounds good. Well, we just missed.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: International Roman Day was on April eight man and that's
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: been around and John Carey, Secretive of State carry came
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: out and that's some nice words to say about, uh,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: you know, celebrating the rich Romanic culture and give him
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: a break, Yeah sort of, you know. But um, I
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: didn't know there was a International Roma Day, So I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: don't know if it's sticking in like the mass public. Well,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: you know, it takes a little time to gain traction.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: It's been a while. It has been since the seventies.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: The seventies were like a big era of um ethnic
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: and minority group like saying hey, we're here and like
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: we're standing up for our rights and you can't kick
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: us around anymore. You know, good for them, we're owning
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: our identity and the Roman did it too. But yeah,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: it's been a little while. Uh. These days there are
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: around twelve million Roma. And when we say scattered, they
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: are scattered. And that's what they're known for, is not
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: dropping down permanent roots and moving along and one reason
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: is because they've often been forced through the centuries to
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: move along until today. Yeah, there's a there's a basically,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the Roma sociologists, the the authority on Romanic culture and people,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Dr Romani, Dr finessca Isabella finnesska Um. She basically points out,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: like tell me another group that just willfully picks up
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: steaks and leaves all the time because they just feel
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: like it at the at their whim She's like that
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: that doesn't exist. They move largely mostly because they've been
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: forced to time and time again. I think humans desire
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: to route down. That's sort of what we've based our
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: success on is people. Yes, is staying one place and
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: fortifying and you know sedentary nous. I don't know about sedentary,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: but like getting couch locked exactly. That's your new favorite term. Yeah, so,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, they they are kind of spread all over
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: the EU. They're scattered to the way. Then they do
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: move quite frequently. But it's like you said, it's it's um,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: it's not necessarily because they're nomadic. They are nomadic people,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: but not necessarily because they want to be. But the
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: problem is is where wherever they go. Virtually everywhere they
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: go in the European Union. Um, they are kind of
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: forced out eventually at some point. Yeah, I sent you
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: that article today and it is literally in today's news
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: how Paris those elite note from the chief of police
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: in Paris that said, on the orders of his superiors,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: police are to day and night locate Roma families living
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: in the street and systematically evict them, even though that
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: is supposedly illegal in France. And uh it is and
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: it's a chic area of Paris, and they don't want
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: um people in poverty. And a lot of the Romantic
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: people are still living in poverty pretty much, all of
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: them are. I'm not saying that makes it right. All
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: all of the Romani except for the gypsy kings the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: band are having in poverty pretty much. They are actual
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Gypsies that look, I thought they were from Mexico. No,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I thought so too, man, They're from Andalusia, Spain, and
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: their parents were all Romani that were basically kicked out
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: of Spain by Franco. And so they're like legitimate Roma
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: people the band and the only ones with any money
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: right pretty much. And I'm like, wonder what they do, Like,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: are they still they still have that Roma thing? To
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: them or are they just like to see you guys later.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I think from what I've read, they the Roman people
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: are are, you know, embrace their heritage. It seems like it,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I mean to to, almost to a detrimental degree. Well.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Last September um Manuel Valls Uh, the Interior minister at
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the time in France, declared that Roman Gypsies were incompatible
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: with the French way of life and should return home. Yeah.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Europes really going crazy lately, Like the Dutch are forcing
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: all of their Um immigrants to learn Dutch or get out. Basically,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: did they realize how hard Dutches Yeah? Uh, maybe that's
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: the point, you know, um. Yeah, And apparently there was
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: like a huge push in the Sun newspaper in Britain,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: um get rid of Gypsy beggars from the street. Um.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And yeah, the Roma in particular are have kind of
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: been the butt of all this stuff. It's not just France.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: I saw an article where in Rome Um to Rome
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: to Roma camps in Rome were rated. All of the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: people were dragged out taking to the airport put on
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: a plane to Bosnia, and a couple of them were
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: underage kids whose parents weren't in the group at the time.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So imagine if you come home from a day of
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: trading cars and your kid is in Bosnia because the
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: cops just rounded them up because they didn't want you
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to live on the street there any longer. Trading cars. Yeah,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: that's what they're into big time. They still trade horses too, Yeah,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: but among them they also trade cars too. They'll go
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to like Germany and buy a car for cheap and
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: then take it to Romanian sell it for a little
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: bit of premium and they make some money. That one
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: that's called Craigslist, buddy, kind of romani Craigslist. Good for them. Uh.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: So the point is there, wherever they go in the EU,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: they end up getting the bombs rush basically. Yeah. I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: mean it's called they call it the gypsy problem still
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: to this day in the European Union. So, and the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: one place that they can kind of call home is Romania. Yeah,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and I think Transylvania too has a pretty robust, fairly
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: settled population. You want to understand, I'm sure they do.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: And they were led there actually by a purchase by
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: a guy named vlad dra Cool in the fifteenth century.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I think I've heard of that guy. Yeah, So let's
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: talk about how the Roma ended up in their adopted
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: homeland of Romania where they come for originally, because apparently
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: even they aren't certain. Well, no, that's the one thing
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: they're certain about, apparently is where they come from. But
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: that's about it because they there's a high illiteracy rates,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: so there's not a lot of record keeping, a lot
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: of not a lot of genealogy throughout the years, so
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of it's just kind of
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: lost to history. Um. But I think they did settle
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: on the fact that they came from India, Josh, which knew, right,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: you're being coy, That is true, and it took a
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: very long time. Um, So the Romans say, we're from
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: India and they know that. Now, no one knew whether
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: that was correct or not. They were called gypsies because
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: people thought they were from Egypt. Um, they were in Romania,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: but they crossed the Balkans. Um. It was really just
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: very confusing. They were just basically this nomadic group of
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: dark skinned people who spoke their own language and didn't
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: practice the prevailing religions, so everybody just hated them. Well, finally,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: in the eighteenth century, Uh, a Hungarian scholar theologian I believe,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: decided he wanted to kind of dig into Romani language
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: and figure out what the deal was with it, and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: he found quite surprisingly that a lot of it contained Sanskrit. Yeah,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: so that's gonna put you in northern India. And then
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: they did some genetic testing to kind of get that
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: stuff confirmed and basically came up with the fact that
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: they migrated out of India about But the dates get
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: a little hazy for sure. Well, some people think that
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: as seven D. This as far back as I think
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: anyone's willing to go. But then I think a lot
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: of historians agree that they're actually descended from a specific
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: group who were ejected from northern India because of raids
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: from Persia around a thousand to a thousand D. Now,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: was that with the spread of Islam, Yeah, Mohammad of Gosni, Yeah,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: he wanted to spread Islam around and so he brought in. Uh. Well,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: the Hindus organized a group of people to fight that, obviously,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: to fight the Muslims, and they had an army called
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the raj Puts. I think that's as good as any
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: or as the the j silent are a Jput No,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: uh No, It's like Maharaja maybe, yeah, that sounds better, uh,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: and they defeated the army. Um, I'm sorry, they were
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: defeated and then taking captive and then another group from
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Persia came along the se and they conquered them and
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: then took the raj Puts out of Northern India and
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: into what is now Turkey, right, and they basically the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: DSPOR has started then supposedly, yeah, that was where they
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: think the Romani originally came from. They were displaced Indians
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: fighting to protect their homeland. And they basically when they
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: were ejected from uh, Northern India, Yeah, by Mohammed of
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Gosni and his people, they became slaves. And then when
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Mohammed of Gosney was defeated by the Celjics, they became
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: slaves for the Celjics. Turkey pretty much put upon from
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: the get go, right, So they were slaves, servant class
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: um laborers for many centuries and they finally made it out.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: I guess once the um. Once the Ottomans defeated, Now
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: what's the Christians? I guess when in during the Crusades
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and defeated the Turks and Istan Bull was converted from
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Constantinople the um Rajputs, who were by now the Roma,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: were moved from Turkey across the Balkans into present day
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Transylvania Wallachia, and a large number of them were purchased
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: by Vlad dreck Cool, also known as Lad Tepish or
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Vlad the Impaler or Count Dracula. He owned some of
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the first Romani people. How many across I think like
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: five hundred or five thousands or something like that. Yeah,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and they suffered tremendously. Anyone who worked for Vaude suffered tremendously. Well,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: lets to do an episode on him. He hated dust
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: on the shelves. He did, may fly into a rage. Um.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, though to see their religion these days of Roma,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: like it's it's kind of all over the map. There
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: are some Christians, um, there are some Muslims, right, and
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: some Hindu. I don't know. Yeah, I think there's not
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: like a a single religion for for an ethnic group. Well,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I guess it's not the weirdest thing. Well no, but
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I mean I think what what happened was there was
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: a group of them, and then the group became further
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and further fragmented, and so you can take all of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the language and the religious police and all of this
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: this stuff that is Romani culture, and you're probably gonna
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: find some similar elements that you can all trace back
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to about at a d when they crossed over into
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the Balkans and then started to spread from there. Yeah,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: but I think that makes a lot of sense though,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: because apparently even the tribes today speak different versions of
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the same language. So it's they don't have like a
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: codified language, even though they're pushing for that, right they are,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: they think that might help. So they're in Romania right
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: what's now present day Romania, UM, And for the next
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: four hundred years they are slaves in Romania until Romania
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: abolishes slavery, and even now that's still that basically their
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: home base. Romania is like, okay, we'll take care of
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: you guys, sorry about the last four centuries, UM, And
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: no one else in the EU will. But Romania does
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: provide for their Romani population more than any other country there.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: But they were subjugated there too, weren't they, or at
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: least discriminated against. Yeah, there were slaves for four years
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: they well, I mean after that though, weren't they like
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: they had a hard time they weren't served in stores,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: and oh yes, it still goes on today in Romania. Okay,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I thought they were a little like more accepting. No,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I think that's like kind of them. I think that's
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the That doesn't mean that Romania is just like um
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Roma loving, right, They're just they treat them slightly less
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: badly than the rest of your slight Roma tolerant. Okay,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: let's settle on that. Um. But because of the fact
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that they weren't um allowed service in stores and that
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: maybe they had low literacy and they couldn't get jobs,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: no one wants to hire them. It was sort of
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: this cyclical thing where they had to resort to thievery
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and deception. And it's just how do you get build
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: yourself up as a people when you can't work. You
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: still need to eat, So how do you eat? You
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: maybe steal something, and so it's just sort of the
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: constant cycle that to this day they haven't been able
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: to break out of. You know, Yeah, it's it's kind
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: of a self perpetuating thing. Like they have a bad
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: reputation in part because they do behave badly, and they
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: behave badly in part because they have a bad reputation,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: so they can't get lag up like thousands of years.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: It's it's unbelievable. Yeah, and there's I think one of
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the probably the hallmarks of um Romanic culture is it's um.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: It just won't assimilate. Like they just don't assimilate into
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: whatever culture there and their their visitors, their guests there
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: um or parasites or leeches depending on you know where
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: you live and how you feel about them. Um, but
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: they are not interested in becoming part of your culture
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: where you live. Yeah, they seem pretty private and like
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: only concerned about their tribe, right. And the thing is
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the problem with that is that tends to make the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: majority of a culture very nervous. Yeah, well, why aren't
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: you like eating our liberty cabbage and freedom fries? Like
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: what's your problem? Well, you know, I bet they love cabbage. Well, like,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: why why don't you want to like work nine to five?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: And you know that kind of stuff. So when when
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: any group won't assimilate and exists on the fringes seemingly,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you know, by their own accord, that's UM. That definitely
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: raises a lot of suspicion in the majority culture. Unless
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you live in Montana, yeah, it's true, so maybe they
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: play well, there have friends in Montana. They know I'm kidding.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: So right for this message break, we're going to talk
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: about some of the atrocities they suffered during World War two. Yeah, alright,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: it's World War two. The Nazis are doing their thing,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: and they are not just persecuting Jewish people, they are
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: persecuting anyone that is a minority that they don't agree with.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: In the Roma were some of the first ones that
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: they targeted, and by um what's the word, by percentage
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: or of their total population maybe even suffered more than
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the Jewish people as far as like like half of
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the Roman people or something were executed. I think it
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: was half of a million were in Germany or in
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: the in the lands that Germany conquered. Yeah, and they
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you know, they were. There's a documentary apparently out and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I read an article on it, but they didn't even
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: give the name of it. But it's uh, these filmmakers
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: in Toronto, Jewish filmmakers made a documentary about um, the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Romani Holocaust because it's just not a story you ever hear.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: But the filmmakers Tom Raski and Lynn Binder, like I said,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: we're Jewish Holocaust survivors, children of Holocaust survivors. And the
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: director and uh them Roma musician actually helped make it
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: so they are still the musical people, not just the
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Gypsy kings. And we said, we don't know the name
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: of the documentary. I couldn't find. It's a terrible article.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: It was terrible. Um. So, Yeah, during World War Two,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the Roma and the Jews were the only two ethnic
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: groups that were targeted because of their ethnicity by the Nazis.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Um And yeah, they suffered tremendously. And they have a
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: word for it, um. It means the great devouring. It's
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a poor amos port amos. Yeah, it means the great devouring. Yeah.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: It could also mean rape apparently, which kind of puts
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: a button on that experience. Uh. And I didtle more
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: reading about it too. Apparently they really annoyed the s
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: S as well, because they would not go quietly like
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: they would say. They would have them dig their own graves,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: stand naked in front of them just so they could
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: chew them and push them in. And uh, he said
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: that they wouldn't just stand there and like take their
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: death gracefully. They would yell and scream and run around
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: and try and dodge bullets, and I guess it was
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: pretty sensible. Well yeah, exactly, but I guess that's part
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: of the you know, the survivor in them, because they've
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: been booted all around. You know, they gotta do what
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: they can. So like this guy's pointing a gun at me,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and get out of here, even if
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I'm naked, sad, And the rest of the majority of
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: culture was like, no, you just stand still, right, what's
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: wrong with you? Unbelievable. So one of the more shameful
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: but also telling things about the Roma Holocaust was the
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: way it was treated afterwards. It was basically unmentioned at
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: the Nuremberg trials, um, which you know, we're to address
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: the Holocaust as a whole, you know, and just kind
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: of ignored like this one whole thing because well it
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: was the Roma apparently. And then, uh, one s S
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: officer in history has was ever persecuted or prosecuted for
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: crimes against Roma during World War Two, just one person,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: even though half a million Roma died. So why, my friend,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: we I don't think we posted the question, Uh, why
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: did they think they came from eagypt To begin with oh, yeah,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: well apparently it was just a complete accident. Yeah. Well, um,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: they came from northern India originally, and a lot of
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Roma have a dark complexion um and look the part
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: maybe a little to uh to an untrained eye. Um.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: And they ended up settling in the Greek Isles for
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: a little bit or some at some point some Roma
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: did and around there the place where they settled, there
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: was a place where they came from along the Adriatic
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: had been known as Little Egypt. To the people in
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Peloponnesia thought oh, well, they're Egyptians, so they started calling
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: them gypsies clearly because they live in Little Egypt and
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: they have dark complexions. That's interesting. So what about these days?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: It's interesting history. But these days they still, like we said,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: have a lot of are still musicians. A lot of
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: them still uh pick up camp and move. Some of
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: them still trade horses. Uh. They're known for being metal
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: workers and uh, well a lot of them have trades
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: that were learned as slaves in Romania that have been
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: passed down and are still practiced today. So like, for example,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: some group that was that were copper workers as slaves
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: in Romania. Their ancestors were the groups today do scrap metal.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: That's what they deal with, so they know what they're
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: doing with with metal. Like, there're a lot of the
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: trades that a Roma clan does for a living. Yeah,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: um is passed down from their their days of slaves
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: in Romania. Yeah, and the fact that they're still musicians
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: today is definitely one of those because they found they
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: could make a few bucks by even appearing trying to
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: appear more exotic and do performances and look at us
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: where the weird exotic Roman people or the Gypsies. Look
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: how colorful our clothes are exactly And I'm playing my
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: finger tambourine while you're getting your pocket picked perhaps out.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: That's that's something that happened. So was it? Because apparently
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the media is totally cool with just perpetuating lies and
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: untruths about the Roma and as not to be trusted
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: anymore than they purport. The Roma should shouldn't be the
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: media the media reports like um. I read that in
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: that article I read in The Guardian by Dr Finnesska,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the Auroma authority, she points out that I want some
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: British paper said that a Roma woman who they named
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: like by name named her son Lucifer, which is apparently
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: wholly untrue. But this is in like the nineties that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: that papers were printing this, So apparently the Roma have
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: always been this group that you can kick around and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: everybody's cool with basically with you kicking him around. So
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: media reports of the stuff that they do are should
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: be taken with a grain of salt. Yeah, I think so,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: because they're very often conflated. Yeah, but the point this
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: article makes, this is by Kristen Konger of Stuff Mom
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Never Told You. She does make the point that a
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: lot of it is reputation, but a lot of it
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: has earned reputation because again, they were kind of force
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: from town to town, and they were poverty stricken, and
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: so they may have had to pick some pockets here
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: and there to put food in the mouths. You know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying, don't read, don't believe everything you're read
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: in the papers. Um. Sociologically speaking, the EurOMA constitute what's
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: called the middleman minority, which is a group that refuses
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: to assimilate UM and but still it is discriminated against,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: but still maintains enough UM communication or contact with the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: larger culture that they can benefit economically from that, Like
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: they can still sell you a car, trade you a car. Uh.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: They're paternalistic, so it's um super old school, like the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: women are expected to stay home and work the else
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: and the men may or may not work at all. Uh.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Young girls, they still have arranged marriages even to this day. Um.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Getting their daughters matched up with another another person of
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: the Romanic cultures is important to them. And apparently teenagers
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, like as young as twelve. It's a
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: little weird, is that right? Yeah? Um, and they because
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: of the literacy rate. I think it's especially hard on
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: young women. They don't care very much about educating them, right. Um.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: And then employment is just kind of a side thing
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: you do when you need money. For the most part.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Part of that is that's just kind of part of
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Romani culture. But it asks the question, uh, you know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: do they is that part of Romani culture because they
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: haven't been able to get a job, or do they
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: just not work? And that's part of Romani culture, right?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: You know, which which side of the coin has actually
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: created this this situation. But they apparently we're giving jobs
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: under communism in Eastern Europe. Uh, and went to work
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: in factories and things like that for a little while,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: but then after Communism disintegrated, the the Romo were fired.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: First apparently they were the persones out the door. Yeah,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: they're like the bosses no longer the boss. You're fired.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I'm firing you. Yeah. And then of course from that
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: rose more complaints of stealing and thievery and uh a
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: lot of it too. Isn't just uh illegal activities, but
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of begging and panhandling and stuff that apparently
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: in cheek districts in Paris is unsightly. So it sounds
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: like from this description that Romani women are they do
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: almost all of the work, especially around the household. They do,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: and then men may or may not even have jobs. Yeah,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: but they're they're these they do existing clans, and these
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: clans do have tribunals to handle disputes, and the men
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: kind of run all that off, like the government of
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: the of the village or group. Yeah, whereas the women
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: are like running the household stuff. But the men are
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: apparently totally clearly dominant. Yeah. Ah, I think that's true.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And unless it's just something we read, that's not because
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I read one of the filmmakers for that documentary said,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you know, we're told that they aren't even that nomadic anymore.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, but that flies in the face of everything
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I've read so well, it's in this article as well.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: It says like a lot of them want to settle
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: down and are trying to make um, trying to establish
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: roots in places, but they get kicked out eventually. I
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: think they fared pretty well here in the States apparently,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: so I don't know about like, I'm not saying they're
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: they're rising to CEO positions or anything, but I think
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: they haven't been h like kicked around like they have
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: been in the EU at least. Well, America loves it's
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: traveling romanticize thing, you know, yeah, the the open road. Yeah, yes,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So anybody who's on the open
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: road is you know, romanticized a little bit more here,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I think than in Europe. I think you're right, Um,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: this this takes a toll though, all the all the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: poverty and the moving around and the lack of education
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: is going to take a toll on on any ethnicity,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and it's definitely happening with the Romani because they apparently
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: um compared to similar populations in Slovakia, Ireland, Czech Republican
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Bulgaria die about six to ten years earlier, and infant
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: mortality rates are double and triple of those in surrounding
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: ethnic groups, which is disturbing. Which you can say, oh,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: that's right, Well, their poverty stricken. Uh, they don't eat
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the most nutritious meals around because their poverty stricken. They
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: don't have easy access to healthcare. On the other side
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: of the coin, apparently, um, they also typically shunned um
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: local medicine in favor of their own medicine, which is
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: often homeopathic apparently. And so for example, tuberculosis is just
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: like a it's like a fatal disease, even though if
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: you step outside of camp into town, it's not right
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: if you just go to that hospital right there, yeah,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: it's not Uh. Yeah, here's the illiteracy rate of romani
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: girls can't read. Yeah, and apparently most romantic kids have
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: either gender don't complete high school. So all of this,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the fact that they are poverty stricken, that they have
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: lower life expectancy, higher informortality rates, lower education, higher literacy rates,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: it's tough to get a leg up, especially when the
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: entire world basically looks at you like you are never
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: to be trusted. Yeah, so what do you do? I
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: will tell you what you do after this tam break.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I'm dying to know a solution. Yeah, well, you know
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: it's it's a long run. We already talked about the solution.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: But you organize, you get together and you say, hey,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: we are this group of people. We um we have
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: a history, we have a past. Because Dr finnessca Isabella
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Finnesska points out quite rightly, I think the easiest way
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to dehumanize people is to strip them of any context,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: any history, and that means that the Roma are right
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: for exploitation when it comes to that dehumanization, because they
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: really don't have a history. Like historians think maybe that
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: they came out of northern India thousand a thousand years ago.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: They probably did, but it's not entirely confirmed. Right. Can
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I read this quote by her? Yeah, it's like the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: saddest thing I've ever read, and this is by Finesska.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: The Roma have no heroes, no myths of origin of
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: a great liberation, of the founding of a nation, of
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: a promised land. And that's like pretty much puts the
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Jerry on topic, right, since pretty much every other culture
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: on the planet does have that. It makes them appear shiftless, aimless, lazy,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: like so lazy they don't even care about their own culture,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: so how can anybody else care about their culture? Well, finally,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: some Roma got together in the seventies and said, we're
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: gonna start being Roma Romani activists, Like we're misunderstood. And
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I think from this interaction inside and out and the
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: separation between us and the rest of the world, there's
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: a this misunderstanding is creating some self prophecies, self fulfilling prophecies,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: self perpetuating myths. And they got together and said, okay,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: we come from Northern India, India. We want you to
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: sponsor like a congress, and they did in Yeah, it
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: was very awesome, the first World Romanic Congress. And uh
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: there were Romani from fourteen different countries and they picked
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: out a flag and an anthem, which just sounds so
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: weird that you would have to do that in the seventies.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I'll bet it's exuberant. I'm sure it was. And um
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: oh you think, I'll bet the Gypsy can can play
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: it really well and it probably sounds like Beirut, you
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: know that band. He sounds like yeah, um m, yeah,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: uh so it was. You know, it was a big
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: unifying moment and a rare unifying moment for the people
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: in and because they had the sponsorship of India though
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: uh the u N had to they had to maybe
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: they really wanted to officially recognized them as an ethnic
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: group in So that was a victory seven years later. Yeah,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you say, well, what's um, what's sad though? Is it?
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I guess the one of the more prevalent proposals for
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: getting Romani like a leg up is for them to
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: assault assimilate culturally. Apparently nothing's ever really going to change
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: until they are willing to assimilate culturally. Um. And that's
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: kind of like the crux of the matter. The problem
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: is is if if you, um, if you you start
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: to assimilate, you lose your culture. Yeah, which is happening somewhat.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: You know. They they're already having a hard time holding
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: onto their dialect because of its fractured nature with the
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: different tribes. But like you said, assimilation it's a bit
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of a sad thing, you know, let go of your
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: own past that's already checkered. So uh, I don't know,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: that would that mean the end of the Romani. Well,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I mean you you can also make the case that,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: you know, the Chinese have been um uh middlemen might
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: no already, Jewish people have been middleman minority in different places.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Um Any group that comes to a new place and
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: settles and then just kind of maintains its ethnic identity
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: for a while is a middleman minority. And you can
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: look around and say, well, you know, Chinese have assimilated
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: into the US pretty fully, but you still understand there's
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: such a thing as you know, Chinese ethnic and cultural
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: identity not dead Chinatown in most major cities. So I
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: don't know, maybe they'll be like Romani Town in San
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Francisco a hundred years from now. In San Francisco, the
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: president will be Romani. You know, you know who knows,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: But it won't happen apparently, I guess that's the best.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: That's the the deal that's on the table. Yeah, we'll
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: take care of you, but you have to stop being
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: outside fringe dwelling weirdos. Well and until there, like this
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: whole Paris deal. That the reason why they're shuffling him
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: out of this one district, it's because they were shuffled
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: out of another district. That's yeah. And it happens on
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: a macro scale as well. Yeah, like not just within
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: the city, within Europe as a whole. Well, and one
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: of the I can't remember the ladies name, but one
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: of the French UM bureaucrats said, we we we just
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: need to get them back to where they came from,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: back to Romania. Oh well yeah, it's like really he
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: just said that, you know. Yeah. Well, plus also shows
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit of historic I literacy. Um, but do
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: you want to talk about other terms for him depending
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: on where they are. So in the UK they call
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: him travelers. Uh. In Rome and Spain they're called gitanas,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: So the Gypsy Gypsy Kings are technically gaitanas. Um. Let's see.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: In Germany and Italy they call him Sinto. I can't
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: believe I thought the Gypsy Kings were from Mexico. That's
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: pretty ignorant. No, No, I think most people thought that.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Who aren't like into world music, you know? But I
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: heard of the Gypsy Kings or whatever. You know, it's
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: they see they play huge guitars. Okay, thank you, you
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: know I'm with you on now. I just didn't want
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to be the white guy. It's like their Mexican right.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's like that. Uh so that's the
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Gypsy Kings. You got anything else on gypsies on Roma? Man?
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know, but the title of the article
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: is how Gypsies work. And I think it'll attract listeners
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: because people. I don't think a lot of people understand
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: what the heck it is. I didn't what Roma. Well,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: it makes you think, like, well, they're from Rome. Yeah, Romania. No,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that means that Romania is from Rome.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: This is one of the more confusing episodes we've done.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: As it turns out, if you want to learn more
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: about the Roma or Romani, don't take those words. Type
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: gypsy into the search bar at house to works dot
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: com and it will bring up this article. And I said,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: search bars means it's time for listener mail. Uh. This
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: is a question post to us from Josh Roberts of Washington,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: d C. Hey, guys, I'm a big fan. I found
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: the podcast last year and downloaded a few episodes, but
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: it caught my interests and ended up going back to
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the beginning and I've listened to every episode on iTunes. Josh,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but we have
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: a lot more episodes than that, my friend, Yeah, I
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: know that. Are you talking to just the Josh Roberts,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: it's not Josh Clark. Yeah. We have a whole page
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: now with all of our episodes on our website that
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: stuff dot com. iTunes features the most recent three one episodes. Yeah,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: and we have like six d and thirty something episodes.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: So he may know that, but maybe not go back
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: on list of the old ones that they're pretty funny.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: There is some good ones in there, not the real
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: old ones, but you know, after maybe fifty they really
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: started to get good, talking so fast and like it's
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: it's a total jackass. And we left the cave that
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: we recorded in the can uh Okay. So he's writing
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: because he has an important question to ask. Imagine that
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: time travel is real, and you and go to any
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: time place in all of history, and you could bring
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: one thing with you. My question is where would you
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: go and what would you bring. I've been asking people
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: this question since I was sixteen. Now I'm forty two
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: years old, and I've had many interesting and some disturbing
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: answers about our money making ploys like the old back
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: to the future, bringing a sports almanac. Many people talk
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: about going back to Mozart Beethoven's time to bring and
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: bringing a recording device, and then of course, other notable
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: answers include shooting Hitler, stopping the murder of JFK. R.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: M Olk. My favorite answer is going back to the
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: late fourteen hundreds with a battleship and making sure the
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Europeans never reached the America's Yeah, so we have to
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: answer this now. My question to Josh Roberts is is
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: this something that are you gonna go come back to
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: present daytime? Because you know, what good would it go
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: due to go record Beethoven if you're stuck there or
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: the recording of Beethoven there's a caveat so if you
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: can come back to present daytime. I've thought about this,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I haven't had the benefit of thinking. Just keep thinking.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: I think I might go back to the time of
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Jesus and biblical times because well documented my constant struggle
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: with my religious upbringing over the years. He's going and
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to the source, and I'm taking a
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: video camera with unlimited amounts of you know, recording space,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: let's say, yeah, a bunch of them and I can
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: bring this back, And I think it would I think
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: it would delight everyone. I think Christians would be delighted
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: because you have real footage of a sermon on the
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: mount and these I think delighted might be understating the
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: reaction you would get. It would be over the moon
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: about having original recordings of Jesus doing this thing. I
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: would think so. And I think it would also be
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: helpful to just sort of sort out what the deal
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: was and uh say, you know what are these stories
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: out glory? Are they? Did they really happen? Am I
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: going to go back and see people walking on the
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: water and come back and say, hey, you know what,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: it's all absolutely true everyone. I think it would be
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: like the greatest discovery and religion that has had such
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: an impact on world history. So that's my boom, That's
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: what I'm doing. That's a good one. Thanks. Um. Uh.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Let's see, I should have sent this to you ahead
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: of time. I feel bad for springing it on you. Well,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I'll just give a cursory one. I would I would
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: go to um. I would go to probably some place
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: that's kind of an exotic locale, now, but like sixty
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: years ago when it was super exotic. Not so. I
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: would say, you know what, I would go to, like um,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Polynesia or Cuba. Yeah, in okay, and I realized they
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: were nowhere near the same thing. But I would go
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to I would go to Cuba in nine and the
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: thing I would take would be interesting. So you just
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: go for a vacation forever vacation. Yeah all right. See,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I would recommend you go back even further to Cuba
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: before there was anyone there with like a big gun,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: and then you own Cuba. I don't want to own Cuba.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: And like I like the local flavor, you know what
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, Like I like the local flavor. That's like
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: not been Uh there's not like an old navy anywhere
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: near this local flavor. It's like, gotcha, totally local flavor.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: But they also have you know, mohitos already. Okay, So
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: you would go get away from the things of man
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: back in the day with your wife where they have
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: alcohol served. Yes, it's a great answer. Thanks. I love it.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: It was off the cuff and just I can just
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: picture you and you me kicking it in nineteen twenty
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and Cuba, Cuba. Yeah, very one of those shirts to
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: be one of those guys who were Cuban shirts. Yeah,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: what are those called the Cuban shirts? Yeah, there's noth name.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. I'm sure it's like the Cruiseware right, yeah,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: but with two pockets and the unnecessary seams and there's
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: the same somewhere. John Hodgman and Jesse Thorner a going
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: we can't hear you all right, Well that was it
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: for Romani. If you want to hang out with me
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: and Chuck outside of this podcast, you can. You can
• 43:25
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• 43:30
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• 43:31
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• 43:34
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• 43:36
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• 43:39
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• 43:41
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• 43:49
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