Latest / The Layback Podcast / Brice Crider, High Performance Coordinator - Driveline Baseball (Ep. 100)

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Brice Crider, High Performance Coordinator - Driveline Baseball (Ep. 100) · The Layback Podcast

• 0:00
  Hey everyone, welcome back to The Layback Podcast.
• 0:02
  Joining us today is Bryce Kreider.
• 0:04
  Bryce Kreider is the high performance coordinator with
• 0:07
  Driveline Baseball. He's currently located down in
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  Tampa and I am stoked that he finally made it to the Tampa Bay
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  area. I was joking with him ahead of
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  time and had a few off the air jokes with some people that I'm
• 0:22
  finally going to get to find out from Bryce why he didn't respond
• 0:26
  to me recruiting him back in the day when I was trying to get him
• 0:29
  to come to Eckerd College. Turns out my text was timed
• 0:33
  really well with him blowing out his elbow.
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  So I guess he has the ultimate excuse and I'm glad he saved us
• 0:40
  some scholarship dollars that we didn't really have by getting
• 0:43
  hurt before he signed an offer to come play in the Sunshine
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  State Conference. So Bryce, it appears your elbow
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  has gotten better seeing how you were able to throw a javelin
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  super well throughout your collegiate career, at least to
• 0:55
  finish things off. But thanks for hopping on today
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  and thanks for tolerating the the crappy story.
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  I look forward to this conversation.
• 1:02
  Thanks a ton for joining me. Yeah, 100%.
• 1:05
  Thanks for having me on. Yeah, I think it's a good story
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  to start with. Sorry I didn't make it out
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  there. Probably good thing you didn't
• 1:10
  sign me. I wasn't a very good college
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  baseball player and I probably thought I was too good at that
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  point for Eckerd College. I definitely was not too good at
• 1:16
  that point for Eckerd College, but yeah, so yeah, a little bit
• 1:19
  about me. I've worked at Drive On for the
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  past six years. I work as a high performance
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  coordinator here. So that's integrating the
• 1:25
  hitting side, the strip conditioning side and the
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  pitching side and working with our sports science and research
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  and development teams to kind of like push some more forward
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  thinking reports. All the other stuff that we do
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  like that. But yeah, so former college
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  baseball player, really bad. One had a couple elbow
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  surgeries, nerve transposition, older nerve hydro dissections
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  through kind of hard, but not a lot of strikes.
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  So ends up throwing the javelin at the University of Washington.
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  I've been helping the squad win a type of championship over
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  there and yeah, did that for two years and then moved on down
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  here. So yeah, I've trained a ton of
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  different athletes, worked with, you know, athletes in the
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  NHLNBANFL. I've worked overseas, I've
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  trained overseas in Japan, Germany, Finland, a ton of
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  different places. So I'm a pretty wide training
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  background and like I'm pretty, pretty wide.
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  Like look on training. But yeah, excited to finally get
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  to talk because I love working with the Flex grow and all that
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  different stuff like. Well, thank you for that.
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  Maybe didn't expect the shout out quota this early in the
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  episode, so I'll just make note on the side and see where we can
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  mix it in again later. You to an extent kind of have
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  the classic crossroads decision of any ex baseball athlete who
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  got hurt. Oh well, do I get into coaching?
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  Do I get into performance? What ultimately drew you to to
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  the high performance side of things?
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  I think the high performance side is so cool because it's
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  such a broadview and I think most people think about this
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  bondageuck pyramid, right, as like general to technical to
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  tactical. But really I view that pyramid
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  as being like flipped upside down, right?
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  Like the high performance or like the general preparation
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  specialist has the most broadview of the problem and
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  because that they have the most influence to act on the problem,
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  right? And I think you see people
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  really starting to think this way in high level sport today.
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  I think a great example of that is Cory Schlesinger with the
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  Pistons is now like was the associate head coach of Texas,
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  but not long, no longer just a strange conditioning guy who's
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  just a part of this little piece, but he's in charge of
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  training adaptation across the entire team.
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  And that actually funnels down to the head coach whose job is
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  tactic. So I think it's the most
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  exciting and novel part of training that really hasn't been
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  fleshed out to what it really could be.
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  And high performance, like the high performance sector over the
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  the next 30 years is going to take some huge steps because
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  it's a field that's really in its infancy, you know, like
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  skill training has existed for quite a bit longer than general
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  physical preparation has. And so we're really just getting
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  our feet wet here to to what we can do.
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  Speaking of that pyramid getting flipped on its head, the
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  Bondarchuk pyramid, and I know on blogs before you've talked
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  about it as a funnel, seeing how we flipped it on its head.
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  And obviously with the Bondarchuk pyramid, we're very
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  concerned about capacity, like how much can we handle and then
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  building into specifics from there.
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  But if I'm not mistaken, you use a different word than capacity
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  in your talks about it, correct? I still use the word capacity.
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  I think about things on this on a spectrum of capacity to
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  expression. So like what is, you know, what
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  is my capacity for this thing and then what is my ability to
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  express it right? So that's very much a lot like
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  the the assessment process that we do at driveline.
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  You come in, you do a table test, you do an arm care test,
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  you do a flex pro test and do a series of horseplay tests that
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  give us a really good idea of like, hey, what it from a issue
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  capacity standpoint and and some neurological aspects to like
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  what is your capacity for force production across all of these
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  broad spectrums? And then the motion capture
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  assessment tells us, Hey, how do you actually express that
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  capacity within, you know, the dynamic constraints of the
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  skill? I was in the background trying
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  to scroll through your blog post real quick because I was trying
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  to refresh myself and I was just trying to think why I thought it
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  was a different word than capacity.
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  So if you see my eyes darting around the screen for anyone
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  that's joining us visually, that is why.
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  But no, no, I I love the idea of that because obviously you need
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  to prep ahead of time. This prep is so important,
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  actually getting the body comfortable with the forces that
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  it's going to need to express your experience in the world of
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  sport. And you obviously know that all
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  too well given a couple of elbow blowouts and the hyper specific
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  sports that you have played beyond just baseball, but truly
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  baseball as a pitcher and then track and field as a javelin
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  thrower there. There's really nothing much more
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  specific than that now training from my understanding and I
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  think what I've seen from you doesn't always need to be so
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  specific. There's still the general that
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  we need to draw from and Speaking of the Bonder Chuck
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  principle, just that overall level of preparedness.
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  So when are you starting to actually get into specifics or
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  where when do you take in athlete skill, maybe separate
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  from just what the Bonder Chuck Pyramid would tell us, but now
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  just from your experience working with high level specific
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  athletes. Yeah, my, my experience with any
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  athlete, right? Like a big thing that I'm always
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  trying to do is avoid the middle in the way that I train an
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  athlete and the way that I train myself, right?
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  I'm always trying to make my general stuff very general and
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  my specific stuff extremely specific, right.
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  So like the way I think about this is like there's some people
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  that will do a mid ball throw as like an assessment.
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  There's like it gives you a little bit of insight into like
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  the rate of force development and it gives you a little
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  insight and how you could coordinate that through
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  rotation, right? But if you just assess the
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  middle or if you just train in the middle, you have very little
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  context of what the ends of the spectrum look like.
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  Whereas if you just do a absolute raw output force play
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  test with very little skill and then a motion capture of your,
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  you know, itching delivery, that's relative to the game in
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  terms of contacts representativeness.
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  Like you're going to know how that middle maps out really
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  clearly, right. So I think avoiding the middle
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  when it comes that general specific is is really important.
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  And the other thing is, I think there's there's there's
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  something there when you think about a high performance
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  specialist being a general physical preparation expert is
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  general prep is so much wider of a bucket then we've included it
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  to be in our take on modern day strength and conditioning.
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  Right. Like people think about you as
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  being the weights guy or you know, you are the, you know, the
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  Olympic lifting guy or you're the West side bands and chains
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  guy. But no, really you are the can I
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  make an extremely robust athlete that can learn skills incredibly
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  quickly? And how do I funnel that to
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  their ability to apply that in really high context
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  environments? Right.
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  So it can be so much like the amount of stuff you'd see these
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  guys doing walking and drive on a random day of like tumbling in
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  gymnastics And like like I've got kid guys taking soccer balls
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  in the warm up. I've got guys doing all kinds of
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  different movement patterns and generally building a really
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  robust, really, really adaptable mover that can apply that to the
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  skill. So it's much more than just
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  tissue capacity, right? I mean, the tissue capacity is a
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  huge part of it, but how general can you really get and depending
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  on the time of the year, like how wide can you really build
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  this funnel so it's easier to take it to where we want it?
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  I feel like we've seen the pendulum swing a good bit going
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  back years ago and you think of I guess like cross training,
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  quote UN quote, as it used to be called of in the offseason.
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  You'll you'll see guys play touch football or that your
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  coach will tell you to go play soccer or do something
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  different. Then we got hyper specific of
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  training needs to not necessarily match the exact
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  movements of the sport, but maybe the exact energy systems
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  that you were using the sport. So then so when we got hyper
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  specific with short distance sprinting, maximal force output
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  in short periods of time, you're seeing someone try to move as
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  fast as they can on a Kaiser machine or something like that
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  and it's still super rotational. It seems like you have adopted
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  as you said this more general approach especially to priming
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  athletes. So kicking soccer balls,
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  tumbling, wrestling type moves, gymnastics type moves.
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  Why have you brought that back into the system and what do you
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  think people were missing when we were on that pendulum swing
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  of hyper specific to the energy systems used in sport?
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  Yeah. And and to be clear, I think
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  there's still definitely a time to get relatively more specific
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  to the energy systems used. And I think the the best way to
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  get specific to the energy system used is to play the
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  sport. Like that's the best way to
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  train in the energy systems used in the sport is to play the
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  sport, right? And you get all the skill that
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  comes with it, right. Like you should try and get as
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  little additional energy system work that isn't getting you
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  better the sport as possible because it's only taking away
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  from your available training economy to use on developing the
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  skill. But but when I but to take it
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  back, I think when I think about these problems of training over
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  time, and I think you have to really become like a training
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  historian and look for these things that have stood the test
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  of time. That's what I'm always looking
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  for. Like what were the Soviets
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  doing? What were, you know, what were
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  the, you know, the Mongolians or whoever doing before that?
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  What were the Greeks doing? Like there's, there's some,
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  there's some really consistent training things that really
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  stand the test of time. One of those is like doing a ton
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  of differential movement to learn where you are in space.
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  One of those is progressive overload, like Milo and the
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  bull. And like there's just these
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  really common things that everyone who's ever gotten
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  better at anything has done for the last 1000 years.
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  And those are the things you should be really tapping into
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  the trap or deadlift or the whatever is just your way to
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  apply that principle via the modality you're choosing.
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  But we should really be looking for is like, hey, how do I build
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  a mover that is extremely robust and is like resilient to changes
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  in the environment? And how do I do that
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  progressively? And so all of these different
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  things, like the main place I go from those is just like the old
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  Stovia training videos. But if you look over time like,
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  you will see these commonalities recurring over and over in
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  history. Before I even ask this next
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  question, feel free to plug whatever the name of that blog
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  was that you wrote, because I know you wrote an article
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  specifically on that concept. I don't know if you have the
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  title off the top. Yeah, Yeah, I.
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  Think I'm not sure exactly what I called it, but it's the Lindy
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  principle, which is Taleb who's who's the guy who wrote anti
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  fragile wrote quite a bit about the Lindy principle.
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  But to kind of just sum it up really briefly, it's the idea
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  that a non perishable thing, so something that you know, like an
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  idea or a way of doing things. It's future lifespan is directly
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  correlated to the length of its previous lifespan.
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  The longer something's been around, the more likely it is to
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  be around a lot longer because it is inherently robust, right?
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  Like sitting there chatting with your buddies, like that's going
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  to be around for a long time because dudes have been doing
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  that forever. And so scale that to the
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  trainings like having highs and lows in your training and having
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  some type of offseason and like progressively overloading and
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  doing a certain amount of variation to make motor learning
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  adaptations. Like these are all very, very
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  windy concepts. And the ultra optimized the
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  radius wall slide, whatever, like, yeah, it's here today,
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  gone tomorrow. Because like it's that it's not,
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  it's not physiologically or like principally robust.
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  Thanks for digging a little deeper on that.
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  I, I did enjoy that blog post and of course, it's one thing to
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  read it on a sheet of paper, but we might as well go a lot deeper
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  on it since I actually have the author of it in front of me on
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  this interview right now. What I was going to shift to is
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  now the specifics of some of those priming movements that you
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  had mentioned. So gymnastics or tumbling
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  movements or kicking a soccer ball.
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  The kicking the soccer ball 1 fascinates me.
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  So why would you choose kicking a soccer ball as one of the
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  priming movements or a piece of the warm up for the pitchers
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  that you're training? I think because it's there's a
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  lot of things where it's just different enough that it makes
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  them learn something new and coordinate in a way they aren't
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  used to. The one commonality I've seen
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  with all of the best athletes I've worked with is they can
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  just pick up new skills like ultra rapidly like and because
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  of that they can apply that to their skill.
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  But they really care about really, really well, right.
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  So they just have this ability of like, you know, the best kid
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  at your high school, he could go play football, he could play
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  basketball, he could play baseball, he could do whatever
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  just because he's really good at knowing where his body is in
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  space and learning at A at a really rapid race.
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  I think inflecting a certain amount of these learning
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  opportunities that are relatively safe in the warm up
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  especially is one of the best ways to like get this athlete
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  thinking and moving in some different ways.
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  And also just like build up a really wide general preparation
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  movement repertoire, right? Like my, my old boss, Stefan
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  Simmons, who's the assistant director of strength for the
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  Cubs, Like this was like one of the big things that he instilled
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  in me when we were working together back in the day.
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  It's just like there's such a wide way of athletes to move.
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  Like, does it have to be a soccer ball kick?
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  No, it could be, it could be a million different things, right?
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  But inflecting this inherent variability provides enough new
• 14:39
  stimulus to form an adaptation. Whereas like if you're just
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  doing the same thing over and over again for your whole
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  career, like there's, there's a concept that that they talk
• 14:48
  about in motor learning. And I hate to butcher the name,
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  but his name is Mongolum. And he is at the University of
• 14:53
  Nebraska Kearney. It's one of those smaller
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  schools, but he writes great papers on motor learning.
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  And he has this concept of like noise and signal.
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  And so he talks about pink noise, Gray noise and white
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  noise. So white noise is like
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  completely random and Gray noise is so consistent that you tune
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  it out. So if, if, if the stimulus that
• 15:14
  you're getting is either so completely random or so like
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  metronomed, you will eventually start to tune it out.
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  And anyone that's still listening to a metronome for a
• 15:22
  long time knows this is like you will stop hearing the metronome
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  because it's so consistent that there's nothing for you to key
• 15:29
  into. But pink noise is something that
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  has just enough variability and just enough consistency for you
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  to pay attention to and learn from.
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  And so that's kind of what we're doing with our training, right?
• 15:39
  It's like there has to be some consistency in the training.
• 15:42
  It can't just be a bunch of random stuff all the time, but
• 15:44
  we need to be inflecting enough variability inherently to give
• 15:48
  the athlete pieces of information to pay attention to,
• 15:52
  grab onto, and learn from. How often now are you having
• 15:56
  athletes come to you and say, well, I think we should do this
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  in the warm up or proposing some sort of competition and you're
• 16:03
  like, great that you've solved the problem.
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  This is exactly what we want. Yeah, I think all the time,
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  right. And they tell me when they hate
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  it too, which is great, you know, and sometimes I, I listen
• 16:13
  to them more than others. But yeah, I think, yeah,
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  there's, there's ultimate variations, the ways to do the
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  things. And then there's some there's
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  some tasks that just lend themselves to to more movement
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  options than others, right? Like one thing you'll see
• 16:24
  constantly in our warm ups is we're always playing spike ball.
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  Like the guys who love playing it, it's inherently fun for
• 16:29
  them. It's a great game.
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  And they move in a ton of different ways.
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  So it's like we can play spike ball all the time.
• 16:35
  It's it's it's fantastic. So, yeah, I think getting that
• 16:37
  feedback from the athletes is really important.
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  But one of my one of my favorite things I think about a lot is
• 16:42
  one of my original mentors at Driveline's name is Rob Hill.
• 16:45
  He's the director pitching for the Dodgers now.
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  And he, he had this thing in his program, he called movement
• 16:49
  exploration. And I would ask him like, well,
• 16:51
  you know, Rob, what is that? Because it would just say like
• 16:53
  movement expiration. He would just say, I try to do
• 16:55
  something that scares me again. And he would, and he would just
• 16:58
  do something ridiculous, you know, some cartwheel to
• 17:00
  handstand or something crazy. And it would, it would just have
• 17:03
  it would the requirement for him was that it had to be something
• 17:06
  that scared him. I think there there really was
• 17:08
  something to that where in any exercise if there isn't enough
• 17:12
  of a stimulus for your body to be concerned about its safety
• 17:17
  somewhat, you are not going to make an adaptation.
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  Like you have to be at at least somewhat pushing the needle of
• 17:23
  what your body thinks is possible.
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  And that that perception action loop just continues to change
• 17:28
  and continues to change, right. And So what we're really doing
• 17:31
  is we're changing the athletes perception of the task and then
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  we're using that change of perception to affect your
• 17:37
  ability to act on that task. And we're doing that over and
• 17:39
  over and over again, which is why the most important stimulus
• 17:43
  for an athlete beyond the training program is just having
• 17:45
  really good people to train around by.
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  By far in a way of the most important thing an athlete can
• 17:50
  do is have an elite training group of people around them that
• 17:53
  are better than them because it changes your perception of what
• 17:56
  is possible. Like what when you when you see
• 17:59
  all these guys and you're just sitting 94 to 98, it's like, oh,
• 18:02
  that's that's possible. That guy looks just like me and
• 18:05
  he's doing that, so why can't I do that?
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  And it just completely shifts the athletes perspective of
• 18:11
  their affordance for the movement far and beyond.
• 18:14
  Like doing something that scares you matters a lot, but also
• 18:17
  seeing other people complete tasks completely changes your
• 18:20
  perception of the task. I hate to walk things back ever
• 18:23
  so slightly, but I want to go back to the beginning of that
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  answer and beyond just what scares you, but more the part of
• 18:31
  making the adaptation of really challenging the body.
• 18:36
  And maybe it's semantics that I'm getting caught up in, but
• 18:40
  where I want to challenge you a little bit and this isn't a
• 18:44
  place of argumentation. It's maybe just to dig a little
• 18:47
  bit deeper and understand where your head is at on this.
• 18:50
  Do you think that is the same both for central nervous system
• 18:56
  CNS style training or something that's going to be more axial
• 19:00
  loaded versus maybe something that's going to be peripheral,
• 19:04
  something that's going to be localized to the forearm or
• 19:07
  localized like a tib raise or something like that?
• 19:12
  Because obviously you can get muscular like strain from doing
• 19:17
  those specific exercises. You, you would still have a
• 19:21
  significant stimulus, maybe a muscle, tendon, A stimulus, or
• 19:25
  you could load with the right strategy to still adapt.
• 19:28
  But you might not, I don't know, you might not feel the same
• 19:32
  fatigue. You might not feel as tired.
• 19:34
  You might not have that overall. Like I'm the freaking man
• 19:38
  because I just pulled however much weight off the ground
• 19:41
  versus on flex row for example. Like I just set a record on
• 19:47
  index middle finger reflection. Yeah, right.
• 19:50
  I think, I think the interesting thing there when you're dividing
• 19:52
  these hardware and software adaptations, which is how I like
• 19:55
  to refer to them, right? I think about hardware as being
• 19:57
  the muscles, the tendons, the bones and the ligaments, of
• 19:59
  course. And then the software is being
• 20:01
  the nervous system, right? And this hardware and software
• 20:04
  are much more melted than people like to give them credit for,
• 20:06
  right? Like you cannot have one without
• 20:08
  the other, right? I can't run my Mac without
• 20:11
  having my keyboard. I can't use my keyboard if I
• 20:13
  don't have the software. But when you're when you're
• 20:15
  talking about these adaptations, I think a great way to view it
• 20:18
  is. You need an inherent, inherent
• 20:23
  amount of stimulus to make an adaptation.
• 20:24
  I think about this is like bodybuilders and strong men,
• 20:27
  both are inherently doing majority resistance training,
• 20:30
  but strong men are just so much stronger than bodybuilders,
• 20:33
  partially because of like the intensity that they're going at,
• 20:37
  but also because of the Super wide variability they have in
• 20:40
  their training. Strong men are just ridiculously
• 20:43
  strong because they pick up every variation of things from
• 20:46
  every variation of angles and because that they're incredibly
• 20:48
  robust. Whereas like bodybuilders are
• 20:50
  just like really hyper optimizing muscle cross section
• 20:54
  area or whatever. And because of that, they're
• 20:56
  training the software and the hardware much less together.
• 20:58
  As a congruent piece. A great olendic to use would be
• 21:01
  talk about the flex program, right?
• 21:03
  I think the Flex program is a fantastic assessment tool and a
• 21:07
  really fantastic way to deliver some specific stresses.
• 21:11
  So like it obviously isn't all you should be doing for your
• 21:14
  arm, right? Like there's so many wider
• 21:16
  buckets of things that funnel down to the Flex Pro where it's
• 21:20
  like, yeah, like you should be doing a ton of stuff that's out
• 21:23
  in some different ranges and like using the the musculature
• 21:27
  of the forearm and the hand differently and that funnels to
• 21:29
  the Flex Pro. So I don't think that one of
• 21:32
  those things is worse or better in respective to the other.
• 21:36
  Like you know, is is doing a calf raise to deliver a ton of
• 21:41
  specific stress to the soleus and the gastroc worse than just
• 21:45
  like doing a ton of like stepping calf raise lunges from
• 21:50
  different angles? It's going to get you more
• 21:52
  specific stimulus and the other one's going to get more general.
• 21:56
  But what you probably need is both, right?
• 21:58
  Like you for the forum, you probably need some like specific
• 22:01
  flex pro tendon work. And you also need just like
• 22:04
  bouldering, rock climbing, or just like a ton of different
• 22:07
  finger hangs and a ton of different like wide dumbbell
• 22:10
  holds from different positions and so on and so forth, right?
• 22:13
  So you go back to that, avoid the middle concept again where
• 22:16
  it's like, hey, yeah, I'm going to get some really specific
• 22:18
  stimulus to my my flexor Carpio Maris.
• 22:22
  But I'm also going to just build this whole system to be
• 22:24
  extremely robust by doing a ton of different training and a ton
• 22:27
  of different angles and a ton of different positions.
• 22:30
  I appreciate you going down that road.
• 22:33
  And yeah, it's not mutually exclusive by any means.
• 22:36
  Is unless maybe you are a bodybuilder and the only thing
• 22:40
  that matters is looking as good as possible by whoever defines.
• 22:45
  But even the bodybuilders, even the bodybuilders will tell you
• 22:48
  that they do quite like their specificity of training really
• 22:52
  tapers as they get closer to competition.
• 22:54
  I guess we should get Jason back on to to talk about.
• 22:57
  This Yeah, Like they, I mean, but they do a pretty wide amount
• 22:59
  of things and then they really start to taper towards like what
• 23:02
  is most important for peeking that much more hypertrophy at
• 23:05
  that point. But like a lot of them are
• 23:06
  really in their offseason, they're doing like a pretty wide
• 23:09
  amount of like powerlifting slash, like they're doing a
• 23:12
  bigger bag of things. And as they get closer to
• 23:14
  competition to optimize for that quality, they start to taper.
• 23:19
  Now obviously they have less fall offs than someone like
• 23:22
  Olympic level sprinter would because that quality doesn't D
• 23:24
  train as quickly. But even for them, like everyone
• 23:27
  is always building a really big general bag and then slowly
• 23:32
  funneling towards sports competition.
• 23:34
  I'm going to make a really crappy segue here as I reward
• 23:39
  one of my flex pro Grip athletes who I told I was going to be
• 23:45
  interviewing you and usually call.
• 23:46
  I love that guy. I love all this stuff.
• 23:49
  I was like, dude, just let me know.
• 23:50
  Do you have a question you want me to to ask him?
• 23:53
  And so I'm going to read his question word for word.
• 23:56
  I'm going to pull it up to make sure I don't butcher it.
• 23:58
  But the reason I say crappy Segway is Speaking of doing
• 24:02
  stuff that scares you. I think this is one of those
• 24:06
  things that sometimes scares athletes.
• 24:09
  So I I want to ask his question specifically, how do you
• 24:14
  approach axial loading for throwers?
• 24:17
  And is rib cage compression something you worry about when
• 24:20
  training a high level athlete? That's a great question.
• 24:23
  OK, So the axial loading question is, I think overstated
• 24:28
  and understated at the same time, right?
• 24:30
  So I wrote this big blog about axial loading and like
• 24:33
  periodizing axial loading. I still think a lot of the same
• 24:35
  things I do when I wrote that blog.
• 24:37
  But like, so generally the idea if you think about axial loading
• 24:39
  is just like compressing the spine in rib cage, like under
• 24:43
  load. No, everything has axial load.
• 24:45
  Doing a, a plyometric jump has axial load.
• 24:48
  But we're really talking about is we're talking about heavily
• 24:51
  loaded long duration stuff. You need to be prepared for a
• 24:54
  ton of axial load in really small segments and that's never
• 24:58
  going to leave the program like that always has to stay.
• 25:00
  But we're really talking about is just like the bar on your
• 25:01
  back, the really heavy axe squat, so on and so forth.
• 25:05
  The way I see it, right, I need a prerequisite ability for the
• 25:10
  spine to be able to articulate in all of its ranges of motion,
• 25:14
  especially at the thoracic spine and and downstream of that, if I
• 25:19
  don't have access for the vertebrae to have interplay in
• 25:23
  what we call inter articular like vertebrae motion, then the
• 25:26
  rib cannot rotate. If the rib cannot rotate, I
• 25:30
  cannot laterally flex and change the shape of my rib cage.
• 25:34
  If I can't do that, it makes it very, very hard to rotate this
• 25:38
  thing and send the scab and the arm along with it, right.
• 25:42
  So like you'll see a lot of these guys were, if they're, I
• 25:45
  don't know if you've ever seen a powerlifter throw a baseball,
• 25:47
  but like they are really bad at changing the rib cage shape.
• 25:50
  Their rib cage is just like a solid cylinder of just like if
• 25:53
  they are very good at turning themselves into a car Jack and
• 25:56
  not very good at changing this thing on their left.
• 25:58
  I think you can still get a ton stronger with things like a back
• 26:04
  spot, etcetera, etcetera, without completely changing the
• 26:07
  shape of your rib cage. If with your other work you get
• 26:11
  your your spine, your rib cage moving quite a bit.
• 26:13
  I think that's the one thing that like the powerlifters
• 26:16
  etcetera missing is obviously they're doing so much axial load
• 26:19
  that it's crazy, but also they just never move or coordinate
• 26:22
  the rib cage. But the main thing is just like
• 26:25
  you assume, especially early and offseason in my in my like
• 26:30
  training, I'm going to like do some stuff that like loads me up
• 26:32
  top down. And then I'm going to do some
• 26:34
  expressive, expansive and compressive stuff in these
• 26:37
  ranges. And these ranges later.
• 26:39
  They kind of like fill in those buckets.
• 26:41
  I'm not getting the same way you would do with anything else,
• 26:43
  right? You hit your heavy trap or
• 26:44
  deadlift and then you do something that gets the hip or
• 26:47
  or something in some deeper range of motion that you didn't
• 26:49
  access with your main meat and potatoes left, right.
• 26:53
  As you go through the offseason and as you go through your
• 26:55
  career, you should probably be doing less total axial load.
• 27:00
  And then once you're in an elite point, you should probably be
• 27:03
  tapering that axial load to a point where it's like one of my
• 27:06
  favorite ways to say what is belt squat or use the light
• 27:08
  press. Like I've already built a ton of
• 27:09
  capacity for the spine to be really strong early in the
• 27:12
  offseason. And by this point, I'm just
• 27:14
  going to hit my belt squat and get my keep my legs really,
• 27:17
  really strong and start to take away some of that axial load as
• 27:20
  I go. Now the most important things is
• 27:22
  that you built the capacity for it early on and that you don't
• 27:25
  taper that too far away in your career where you become fragile.
• 27:29
  Like there's some guys where it's just like they're scared to
• 27:31
  put a ball in their back, they're scared to load
• 27:33
  themselves up. And it's like that can never be
• 27:35
  the case. Like you can't be scared to load
• 27:37
  your back. I've had like a spinal stress
• 27:39
  fracture from from throwing because javelin disease get
• 27:41
  caught in a ton of extension and block.
• 27:44
  And one of the things that made it a lot better was like
• 27:46
  loading, loading myself up with a ton of axial load again and
• 27:49
  just like regaining some trust in, you know, the deep core
• 27:53
  muscles to stabilize myself. There's really two camps here
• 27:56
  when it comes to this like axial load thing.
• 27:59
  There's like the core anti rotation camp, which is just
• 28:03
  like you should never like the Stew McGill classic, like you
• 28:06
  should never let your spine move at all.
• 28:08
  Your spine is meant to stay in one spot.
• 28:10
  And then there's like the very like spinal engine, like direct
• 28:15
  to Vesky, if I'm saying that name right, like that everything
• 28:18
  is about rib cage and, and, and pelvic inner motion.
• 28:21
  And you have this torque being created in three dimensions of
• 28:24
  the spine. And, and what I really think it
• 28:26
  is in sports is it's a combination of the two.
• 28:29
  You need to not only be able to move your spine segmentally to
• 28:33
  create a ton of torque, but you need to be able to become very
• 28:36
  stiff. Like you need to create a ton of
• 28:39
  stiffness at like a moment's notice and time that up
• 28:41
  correctly, right. So it's not only like I can I
• 28:44
  change the shape of my rib cage to get side bent and get the
• 28:47
  things I need to do to unwind the arm, but also at the right
• 28:51
  moment, can I create some stiffness and stop that
• 28:53
  descended up the chain. So the best way to do that is
• 28:57
  lift heavy and move your spine around a lot.
• 28:59
  It can be really simple. But yeah, as you go through
• 29:02
  someone's career and as you go through an offseason, I start to
• 29:05
  take more and more of that axial load.
• 29:07
  You did mention when someone reaches an elite status, so to
• 29:13
  you, what would elite mean with the axial axial loading?
• 29:19
  There's, there's just, there's just pick picking and choosing
• 29:21
  to be had, right? Like if you're back swatting
• 29:25
  over £500 or you're dead lifting over £600, It's like I have a
• 29:30
  very funny story that I actually talked about in that blog where
• 29:33
  when I first came to Driveline, I was just, I was a JUCO kid and
• 29:36
  I was dead lifting like twice a week and I was like sumo dead
• 29:39
  lifting over £600. I thought I was the strongest
• 29:41
  man alive. And then I went on the isometric
• 29:43
  methyl pole, which is our test where it's an isometric, you're
• 29:46
  just pulling yourself into the force wipes.
• 29:48
  And I was below average for a college guy.
• 29:50
  And I was completely flabbergasted by this.
• 29:52
  I was like, Oh my God, I'm dead lifting so much weight.
• 29:54
  Like I can't believe I'm said this test says I'm weak.
• 29:56
  But what really was happening was that I was just getting
• 29:59
  really good at dead lifting. So I was just putting my I was
• 30:02
  just compressing myself a ton and I was just getting really
• 30:05
  good at deadlifting and I wasn't very good at producing a ton of
• 30:09
  force. And then like now I can
• 30:10
  isometric myth, I pull almost twice that, but I probably can't
• 30:13
  deadlift as much because I don't deadlift that much anymore.
• 30:16
  And so, yeah, a great example there too is I talked about not
• 30:19
  blog is we had Chris Duffin, who was at one time the world record
• 30:22
  holder in the deadlift come in and he pulled, I think he pulled
• 30:25
  1100 for three. There's like ridiculous, the
• 30:28
  strongest guy ever. And then we get on the isometric
• 30:30
  myth, I pull and I'm sure there's a skill, a skill
• 30:31
  difference there, but he only pulls 800 Newtons more than me
• 30:35
  on the isometry mid thigh pole. And it's like, well, what's
• 30:38
  going on there? This guy's the strongest guy on
• 30:39
  the planet. And I'm just, you know, I'm a
• 30:41
  jab on throw. I'm not a I'm not a power
• 30:43
  lifter. Like why is why is the gap so
• 30:45
  big when it comes to like the deadlift and so so much smaller
• 30:49
  when it comes to mid thigh pole? And a lot of that is, I think,
• 30:52
  like a lot of what Chris is really good at is compressing
• 30:55
  himself and turning himself into that human car Jack.
• 30:58
  Obviously he's insanely strong. So like a lot of that skill with
• 31:02
  pyrolopter is how do I remove degrees of freedom at the spine
• 31:05
  and rib cage to like take away any, any, any movement options
• 31:10
  under a load, right? So I think the main thing is if
• 31:13
  you're asking this question, you probably, you probably are not
• 31:18
  strong or adapted enough to really worry about this.
• 31:21
  Like I think the majority of people, they can continue just
• 31:24
  to like hammer their, their heavily loaded compounds and
• 31:26
  then get their spine moving in a ton of different ways in their,
• 31:30
  in their like later prep work or their early prep work.
• 31:33
  Like a lot of the Edo portal stuff, stuff where it's like,
• 31:36
  you know, the smooth crawling and the tumbling and the rolling
• 31:40
  where you're getting that spine moving segmentally into some
• 31:43
  deeper curved positions. That's going to take care of the
• 31:46
  majority of your problems. And then you can just keep
• 31:48
  taking away some of the total volume, right?
• 31:51
  Like even me, like I'll do some heavy snatch pulling with four
• 31:55
  or five in the bar, but I'm just doing it for double S, right?
• 31:57
  So in the grand scheme of things, I have not spent that
• 32:00
  much time in compression. So, and it really depends on the
• 32:04
  athlete, right? Like do they have access to the
• 32:06
  ranges they need to get to in the throw?
• 32:08
  And is it working for them, right.
• 32:09
  I've, I've coached quite a few guys where they throw 100 miles
• 32:11
  an hour and they don't really lift at all.
• 32:14
  We just do some sprints and some plyometrics and they're like,
• 32:17
  yeah, this is working for me. And I'm like, right, well,
• 32:20
  you're throwing 100 and filling it up and you're one of the best
• 32:22
  pitchers in the big league. So how am I going to like, what,
• 32:24
  what are we going to say there? You know, what are we going to,
• 32:27
  what are we going to change? So I think, I think it's, it's a
• 32:30
  mostly faceted issue. But in general, as long as
• 32:33
  you're covering all your bases in terms of like meat and
• 32:35
  potatoes with the heavy strength work and then getting the spine
• 32:38
  moving in a ton of different ways and you're like more
• 32:40
  accessory work, you're going to be in a good spot.
• 32:43
  Again, I'm going to hang on one word and turn it into another
• 32:47
  question or one little phrase. And this time around it's going
• 32:52
  to be the force production aspect.
• 32:54
  So the, the skill of dead lifting versus force production
• 32:59
  is really the the crux of where I'm approaching this.
• 33:04
  And of course it changes for every single athlete.
• 33:07
  Some athletes straight up need to get stronger.
• 33:10
  Some athletes straight up need to get faster.
• 33:12
  But obviously force production and force expression to an
• 33:17
  extent matters. Of course you have to be good at
• 33:20
  the skill of your sport. At the end of the day, skill is
• 33:23
  the is going to be the determining factor of how long
• 33:26
  you can stay in the game. But oftentimes your ability to
• 33:32
  express greater force, whether that's through swing speed or
• 33:36
  the ability to throw a ball harder, that's going to come
• 33:39
  from your ability to either create a a stronger lead like
• 33:44
  block, put more force in the ground, something like that.
• 33:47
  I mean, you spend more time on this data than I do, so I don't
• 33:50
  want to talk out my ass too much.
• 33:52
  I would love if you could hit us with a couple different maybe
• 33:55
  athlete case studies to an extent of when you are trying to
• 33:59
  get an athlete to produce more force when you might go a
• 34:04
  certain route. Yeah, for the, for the majority
• 34:06
  of athletes, they can just straight up get better at all of
• 34:09
  it, right? Because you think about these
• 34:11
  like athlete biasing types where it's like like I'm really
• 34:14
  strong, but I'm produced force quickly or I produce sports
• 34:17
  quickly, but I don't have a big engine underneath or I suck at
• 34:20
  both, right. Like most people kind of fall
• 34:22
  into the sucking at both category where it's like, hey,
• 34:24
  they could just do a little bit of everything at a really high
• 34:27
  intensity for a while and just continue to get better and
• 34:30
  better. Like as long as they have
• 34:32
  objective feedback of like you find out how fast you sprinted,
• 34:35
  you find out how far you jumped, you find out how heavy the
• 34:37
  weight was or how fast you move the bar.
• 34:39
  And if they train hard, they'll just continue to get better at
• 34:41
  all of it. Like there's this big idea that
• 34:43
  you have to like super optimize your training to, to, to certain
• 34:47
  things. And I think for most people,
• 34:49
  they can just get better at most of it.
• 34:50
  Now, what I will say when it comes to like athlete
• 34:52
  archetypes, the type of athlete, like if you're a college coach
• 34:55
  or if you're AGM that you're looking to sign.
• 34:58
  And this is actually why you should have never given me a
• 35:00
  scholarship because I was pretty strong and powerful at that
• 35:03
  point. At driveline is what you're
• 35:04
  looking for is the Super skilled guy who has a very low physical
• 35:09
  training age and very low physical adaptations.
• 35:12
  Like the guy is a great example of, you know, the guy that
• 35:15
  throws 88 and is just like rail fin and throws a ton of strikes
• 35:19
  and can just compete and get hitters out.
• 35:21
  That's the guy you want to get because if you can just put 25
• 35:24
  lbs of muscle on him and just like actually get him physically
• 35:27
  prepared, he's going to be one of the best pitchers in the
• 35:29
  country, right? So you should always be looking
• 35:31
  for people with really high skill and low physicality
• 35:35
  because creating the skill is really difficult.
• 35:38
  It's much more of an art, but training the the general
• 35:42
  physical preparation side is much, very much a science.
• 35:44
  Like it's very simple to add muscle to somebody to, to get
• 35:47
  them stronger, to get them more powerful.
• 35:50
  So really those are the easiest guys to work with and those are
• 35:52
  who we really make our money with at Driveline.
• 35:54
  It's like really high skilled guy who just needs to swing the
• 35:57
  bat faster and get stronger and more powerful.
• 35:59
  It's taking candy from a baby. We do it every time.
• 36:03
  Travis Lazalm is a great example there.
• 36:05
  There's almost infinite examples of just like guys who come in
• 36:08
  that can just use a little bit more juice and like just need to
• 36:10
  swing the bat faster, need to get stronger.
• 36:12
  We do it and it's very much a simple equation.
• 36:15
  The tough guy is the guy who's really athletic, who starts with
• 36:18
  the sport. And like, that's the main thing
• 36:21
  you got to do there is you got to play the sport more and make
• 36:23
  it more context representative. But yeah, to get back to the the
• 36:27
  force question really, right, like all that really matters is
• 36:31
  do you have the prerequisite capacity to survive the forces
• 36:36
  that you're going to put yourself under in, in the throw,
• 36:39
  if we're talking about throwing specifically, right?
• 36:41
  Like you just need to have the hardware that can withstand the
• 36:46
  damage that you were going to put yourself under in the in the
• 36:49
  95 plus mile an hour throw. And so for most people, their
• 36:54
  body will not put themselves in those positions because they
• 36:57
  know they can't handle it. There's just, there's just a
• 37:00
  guardrail on. We could talk quite a bit about
• 37:02
  about this guardrail or governor that's really happening that I
• 37:06
  think is really interesting at the at the muscular tendon unit
• 37:09
  or at the muscular tendon junction and so on and so forth.
• 37:12
  Whether it's at the Golgi tendon organ or at the muscle spindle,
• 37:15
  there is a inherent nerfing of an athlete's abilities because
• 37:20
  it does not trust the hardware. Like the software is like we
• 37:23
  can't run to our full ability because we know this hardware is
• 37:26
  like not good enough and vice versa, right?
• 37:29
  Like the software hasn't had enough experiences of undergoing
• 37:32
  those forces. It's going to, it's going to put
• 37:34
  the government. In a super basic sense, I think
• 37:37
  coaches have probably even recognized that a little bit
• 37:40
  longer than they may even know with the basic thought of in
• 37:46
  order to throw hard, you have to throw hard.
• 37:48
  At some point you have to get comfortable with the task at
• 37:51
  hand. But I'm very curious now on your
• 37:56
  side, really the human Physiology, human performance
• 38:00
  side of things. Why then do you think that is
• 38:03
  the case? And what can we do to ultimately
• 38:06
  make a difference, to let the hardware and software know that
• 38:11
  this is doable? We can do this.
• 38:14
  Yeah. So you know, the first, the
• 38:16
  first thing is just like the hardware, right?
• 38:18
  Like do you have the prerequisite car to take out
• 38:22
  onto the track? Like do you have the tendons
• 38:25
  that are like stiff but compliant enough?
• 38:27
  Do you have the muscular ability to produce the force?
• 38:29
  Do you have the bones that are dense enough like to handle
• 38:32
  these these capacities without breaking like that?
• 38:35
  That's the most important thing. And so like I think about that
• 38:38
  hardware and software problem is like I like to talk about rock
• 38:41
  climbers. I don't know if you ever met any
• 38:43
  rock climbers or boulders, but they just have insane, insane
• 38:46
  tendon stiffness and insane muscular strength at the
• 38:49
  forearm. Ridiculous.
• 38:50
  They're they're unbelievably strong, but if you were to
• 38:54
  somehow get them to throw a 95 miles an hour, they would
• 38:57
  explode like they like if their arm was put under all of the the
• 39:02
  force of, you know, the valgus torque that's involved with the
• 39:05
  95 mile an hour fastball. They would explode every time,
• 39:08
  no matter how good their hardware is, because their
• 39:11
  software would not be able to fire those contractions at the
• 39:14
  right time to keep the passive structure of like the ligament
• 39:16
  safe. Right.
• 39:17
  So I think about it like this, like how do you build a thrower,
• 39:21
  the hardware of a rock climber? And then how do you
• 39:24
  progressively use extensive plyometrics to intensive
• 39:27
  plyometrics in the terms of harder and harder throwing to
• 39:30
  prime the software and ramp the car to go at 100% right.
• 39:34
  And so really what's happening here is build the hardware, of
• 39:38
  course. But then that's this is where
• 39:41
  you know, like throwing fitness comes into play.
• 39:43
  Like all throwing fitnesses is just a learned ability to time
• 39:48
  contractions at the right time to protect the passive
• 39:50
  structures as the arm unwinds. And so This is why building a
• 39:54
  certain amount of submax, throwing reps early in an
• 39:58
  offseason and even during the season and keeping that in is so
• 40:01
  important because not only are you exposing it to the to to the
• 40:05
  the stimulus at a lower grade, but you're teaching it with
• 40:08
  every Rep like this is this is when to contract and relax
• 40:12
  subconsciously. And so the same thing that with,
• 40:15
  you know, you'll see triple jumpers.
• 40:16
  I like I like using triple jumpers is my example here
• 40:18
  because. They blow out Acls and Achilles
• 40:21
  all the time because it's just, it's just like throwing really
• 40:24
  hard. It's like it's so stressful and
• 40:25
  it's such a timing issue, keeping the passive structure
• 40:28
  safe. But you'll see triple jumpers
• 40:30
  doing so much, so much, so much. Obviously they do their lifting
• 40:33
  and stuff, but they just do a ridiculous amount of skipping
• 40:36
  and jump roping and, and submaximal bounding because
• 40:39
  they're priming. They're, they're bridging this
• 40:41
  gap between the hardware and the software and, and getting enough
• 40:45
  reps at A, at a recoverable range to teach themselves.
• 40:49
  And so, and that's why progressively throwing harder
• 40:52
  over an offseason is so important.
• 40:54
  Is like, you just don't want to make a ton of reps at 60% and
• 40:57
  then only throw at 90%. Like that's a huge gap to cover
• 41:01
  between the hardware and the software.
• 41:02
  But how smooth can you, can you progress this hand off?
• 41:06
  And then once you're getting closer, like your, your body
• 41:09
  will start to take the governor off, right?
• 41:11
  Like you'll see guys this time of year say, Oh, I've never
• 41:13
  thrown this hard this time of year or I usually don't throw
• 41:16
  this hard until this time. And essentially what they're
• 41:18
  saying is I need to have a certain amount of hardware
• 41:21
  software handoff or throwing fitness for my body to take the
• 41:24
  governor off between the handoff of the golden E tendon organs
• 41:27
  and the muscle spindles to actually allow me to produce
• 41:30
  more force at the muscular tendon junction.
• 41:32
  So that's way too far down the Physiology thing.
• 41:34
  But I think the main point I'm trying to get to is you have the
• 41:38
  specific software and you have the hardware, but the handoff is
• 41:41
  in the the extensive plyometrics.
• 41:44
  And that's why the skipping and the jump roping for the arm,
• 41:48
  which is just dribbling and a ton of like upper body extensive
• 41:51
  work. And then obviously submaximal
• 41:53
  throwing. It is so important for bridging
• 41:55
  that gap. Is that also where, in your
• 41:58
  opinion, the kind of recently popularized in the baseball
• 42:03
  world impulse work could come into play?
• 42:06
  Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah, I think, I think the
• 42:08
  impulse work is a cool thing. Obviously like Brady Volmering
• 42:12
  really popularized it and I think it has some some uses in
• 42:15
  terms of just like you're getting a plyometric, an
• 42:19
  internal collision to to the arm that you wouldn't get under the
• 42:23
  strict load, right. Like, you know, you think of a
• 42:25
  plyometric being classified as a really sharp involuntary
• 42:30
  collision externally. So you think about like a hop.
• 42:33
  So that same thing is happening at the flexor tendon and the
• 42:36
  bone and the flexor when you're doing an impulse.
• 42:38
  So I think that's a cool way. I think the main purpose of the
• 42:41
  impulse is actually is not really hardware based at all.
• 42:45
  It's just getting the nervous system to trust climate,
• 42:49
  internal collision happening around the elbow and so on and
• 42:52
  so forth. And that's why it's kind of a
• 42:53
  cool rehab tool for guys. It's just like it's OK for me to
• 42:56
  take on some some sharper spikes of valgus torque and it's pretty
• 43:00
  progressable. The main thing, like if you're a
• 43:02
  healthy thrower, I don't think you need to be doing that much
• 43:04
  impulse work. I think you just need to throw.
• 43:06
  Like the main thing you should be doing is throwing and
• 43:09
  managing your throwing workload. And that's going to take the
• 43:11
  main care of like the hardware software hand off.
• 43:15
  And then as long as you're doing your bicep curls, doing your
• 43:18
  finger tendon work, and doing your hand stands and hangs and
• 43:21
  rows and presses, like, your arm's going to be in a good
• 43:24
  spot. I know this usually isn't what
• 43:26
  is performed on podcast, but I'm going to do it anyway.
• 43:29
  So my take on the impulse concept or or where I prescribe
• 43:33
  it or maybe better stated the way that I explained it to
• 43:37
  athletes is we are giving you so much more exposure and time
• 43:42
  under tension. In theory.
• 43:44
  I know it's not fully time under tension, but so much more time
• 43:49
  being spent in these positions that your body spends a split
• 43:54
  second in in that single action and then even over the course of
• 43:58
  the season. So you think about how long you
• 44:01
  spend in maximum external rotation over the course of the
• 44:05
  season. No, you're not necessarily doing
• 44:07
  impulse work for maximum external rotation, but even
• 44:10
  thinking about how quickly you work through maximum external
• 44:13
  rotation as you're making a throw or moving from maximal
• 44:17
  external rotation into internal rotation.
• 44:20
  And if an athlete is spending a split second in that over the
• 44:24
  course of 100 game throws one day per week for a 14 week
• 44:32
  season in total, what that's going to add to 30 total
• 44:35
  seconds? Then if you just do one set of
• 44:38
  impulses total, you've already totaled more than 30 seconds of
• 44:42
  work. I know it's not like this exact
• 44:44
  1 + 1 = 2 in this situation, but I really think you're giving the
• 44:49
  athlete the exposure to the stimulus.
• 44:51
  You're giving them time in that stressful setting, and it kind
• 44:55
  of removes that barrier that you have to overcome.
• 44:58
  Going back to what you stated earlier about the fear, if you
• 45:02
  no longer fear that position, if you no longer fear that stress,
• 45:05
  there's probably a lot more that you can really do on the
• 45:09
  performance side. Yeah, I think I think that's
• 45:11
  right. And and you think about this
• 45:12
  fear is just being the governor and you can take that down to
• 45:14
  the Physiology of what's actually happening at the
• 45:16
  muscular tendon junction, right? Is like you have this, you have
• 45:19
  the muscle and the tendon, of course.
• 45:21
  But then you have the Golgi tendon organ, which is wound
• 45:23
  into this junction between the muscle and the tendon.
• 45:25
  And all the Golgi tendon organ wants to do is it wants to make
• 45:29
  sure that the tension on this muscle, muscle and tendon don't
• 45:31
  get so high that it rips or breaks.
• 45:34
  So all it's going to do is when when that tension gets too high,
• 45:38
  it's going to force the muscle to relax and decrease the pull
• 45:42
  on the tendon. And So what happens here is what
• 45:44
  we call, you know, like Gogi tendon organ adaptation is
• 45:47
  really like your, your nervous system allows more and more
• 45:50
  tension to take place as you accumulate more reps at those
• 45:54
  prerequisite intensities, right? So for the majority of people,
• 45:58
  their, you know, their nervous system or their proprioceptors,
• 46:01
  the Gogi tendon organ won't let them take anywhere near what
• 46:04
  they can maximally withstand because they have no experience
• 46:07
  in handling those those peaks of forces.
• 46:10
  Right. Like a great example of this,
• 46:13
  which I always love to bring up when I talk about the tendon
• 46:15
  stuff and the, and the GOGI tendon organ stuff specifically
• 46:18
  is you'll see that former elite sprinters and jumpers have an
• 46:23
  insane recurring rate of tearing their Achilles when they're like
• 46:27
  50 or 40 years old. And the reason for this is they
• 46:31
  have completely stopped doing all of their training, but they
• 46:34
  still have this like super twitchy nervous system that like
• 46:37
  has a ton of trust in the hardware, but they've stopped
• 46:40
  doing all of the hardware work. So the tendon is not prepared
• 46:43
  for what's going to happen. And then they go to like do a
• 46:45
  Sprint or something and the nervous system's got no
• 46:48
  governor, so it Yanks on the tendon and then the tendon just
• 46:51
  goes because the tendon doesn't have the hardware anymore.
• 46:53
  And so that's a, it's a, it's a kind of a interesting example of
• 46:58
  all this handoff between software and hardware works,
• 47:00
  right? Like not only do I need a really
• 47:02
  stiff tendon and a really strong muscle, but I need the software
• 47:06
  to allow me to express that to its maximal capable.
• 47:09
  This might be me getting way too big brain on this and kind of
• 47:14
  out of the focus of this podcast.
• 47:17
  But then does that maybe bring you to a point of thinking that
• 47:21
  when an athlete quote, UN quote deloads or they're entering a
• 47:26
  period where they're not doing as much total work, Is there
• 47:31
  merit to actually declining the work in a periodized manner much
• 47:36
  as we increase in a periodized manner as opposed to just doing
• 47:40
  a sharp cut off at the end of the season?
• 47:42
  Yeah, I mean, it depends. It depends how soon you need to
• 47:46
  be back. You know, it depends how soon
• 47:48
  you're planning to ramp up after that.
• 47:50
  You know, how much time do you have and how soon do you need to
• 47:52
  ramp up after that? Yeah, I think, I think there's
• 47:54
  something there. I I'm, I'm not really a believer
• 47:56
  in ever having like a super steep deal.
• 47:59
  What I mean, if you're talking about the end of the season, you
• 48:02
  just got to keep a close eye on the way their offseason starts
• 48:06
  up. Like if you had a super steep
• 48:08
  drop off and then two weeks off and then you're going to start
• 48:10
  up too steep, that's where you're going to run in some big,
• 48:13
  some big capacity problems. But it's an interesting thing.
• 48:16
  I think. I think you can see that much
• 48:17
  more in in the macro cycles where people probably deload
• 48:21
  much too steeply at the end of each phase.
• 48:24
  And they have these like pre planned deloads that just like,
• 48:28
  you know, they build up and then they just completely drop off
• 48:30
  the face of the mask. And not only do they waste a
• 48:33
  week of training, it's like if you just like, do nothing every
• 48:36
  six weeks, you're wasting 1/6 of your training year doing
• 48:40
  nothing. And sometimes that's not even
• 48:41
  the time when you need to be deloading.
• 48:43
  But like, the point of the deload should just be to take a
• 48:46
  little bit away to allow you to bounce out of a hole that you
• 48:49
  put yourself in, right? So you may need to make sure
• 48:53
  that the, the, the steepness of that general adaptation syndrome
• 48:57
  curve is not too great for you to, to bounce out of, right?
• 49:00
  It's going to, you don't want to, you know, crash it down and
• 49:02
  then crash it back up. That's a really bad, bad way to
• 49:05
  make a long term adaptation. So I, I think there's something
• 49:08
  there with the, the way that we, we, we blend those curves in
• 49:13
  terms of deloads. But yeah, I think with anything,
• 49:15
  the smoother the curve is going to be, the easier time you're
• 49:19
  going to have of building and maintaining that adaptation.
• 49:23
  And maybe I'll make this clear, I am not a proponent of deloads
• 49:28
  unless there is legitimately a reason for it.
• 49:30
  Unless data tells us something or if the athlete, even if it's
• 49:35
  subjective, if the athlete says, hey, I'm cooked.
• 49:37
  Like that's enough feedback for me to say like OK, maybe
• 49:40
  something needs to change here. But I I would prefer to not pre
• 49:45
  schedule that. I want something to tell me an
• 49:48
  adjustment needs to be made. But the the reason I asked the
• 49:51
  question, which I became fascinated with your example of
• 49:56
  X track athletes blowing out at older ages.
• 49:59
  If maybe there there's a way to assist with the D training that
• 50:04
  occurs that it's almost like can we can we train in the opposite
• 50:08
  direction? And I, I don't mean like get get
• 50:11
  someone comfortable with being sedentary, but would there be a
• 50:15
  purpose in training an athlete to decrease tendon stiffness for
• 50:20
  greater longevity? Yeah, I think yes.
• 50:23
  I mean, the main thing would just be to stay, continue to
• 50:25
  stay active and on their feet, continue to be, you know what I
• 50:28
  mean? But not like this is the big
• 50:30
  problem with like the American model of sports and and the
• 50:33
  American model of long term echo development.
• 50:35
  It's just like, OK, you peek yourself to an age at which time
• 50:39
  you're told you can't play anymore and then you're like,
• 50:41
  all right, I'm done doing anything ever for the rest of my
• 50:43
  life. Like now the real model should
• 50:45
  be like, hey, I go, I make my way to elite sport.
• 50:48
  OK, I'm done in elite sport. You know, when I turn 40, I'm
• 50:50
  going to be crushing tennis. I've already promised myself I'm
• 50:52
  going to be the nastiest like local Tennis Club player ever.
• 50:56
  But yeah, you go play some tennis, then you go play some
• 50:58
  golf and then you start getting really old.
• 51:00
  And that should be kind of a smooth tape, right?
• 51:01
  It's like you're you're active for life and because that you
• 51:04
  don't have these big drop offs. So I think there's a there's a
• 51:07
  way to do that, of course, but I am always thinking about all of
• 51:12
  these farms specific and then the ligament bone muscle like
• 51:16
  issues and taking them to the jumping world.
• 51:19
  Because like the jumping and the Achilles thing, not only are the
• 51:22
  tendons and the muscles bigger and the effect sizes larger,
• 51:26
  whereas like the throw is so fast and hard to see and it's
• 51:29
  very hard to explain like, but what I think it really allows
• 51:33
  you to see some of the parallels between what's happening
• 51:36
  actually physiologically when you look at the jumpers.
• 51:39
  I think one of the best guys that I really got into this
• 51:42
  stuff was to pull up his name because I'm I'm a huge fan of
• 51:46
  it. Hold on, it was John Evans.
• 51:49
  John Evans is a is a high jump and the triple jump and like a
• 51:52
  basketball jumping coach and he's got fantastic stuff on all
• 51:55
  of these things about these muscular tendon adaptation.
• 51:58
  So if you're if you're interested in some of the the
• 52:00
  tendon stuff especially, which obviously if you're into the
• 52:02
  fights pro you really are, John is a great guy to look into his
• 52:05
  stuff. I'll make note of that.
• 52:08
  I sadly don't have my calendar next to me and I don't want to
• 52:10
  pull up my phone because I'm going to get caught up in the
• 52:13
  notifications that popped in. I was on do not Disturb, so
• 52:16
  afterwards I might I might text you saying what was that guy's
• 52:19
  name again? But John Evans correct?
• 52:21
  John Evans, yes. Sweet.
• 52:22
  All right. Well then shout out John Evans
• 52:25
  and Bryce's. We kind of near the end here.
• 52:28
  I want to shift now to what's to come or, or where you think we
• 52:34
  can make significant gains or changes.
• 52:37
  Like you said, you're you're excited about the jumping world,
• 52:40
  you always like following the jumping world and even at the
• 52:44
  beginning you kind of drop that bomb or you think high
• 52:47
  performance as an industry is going to change and really
• 52:51
  continue to revolutionize sport in the near future over the next
• 52:55
  20-30 fifty years. So why is it do you think things
• 53:00
  will change And if you have any say in it, what is that next
• 53:05
  domino to fall? The next domino to fall is
• 53:08
  already falling. Is that the high performance or
• 53:11
  like the general physical preparation expert is going to
• 53:14
  have way more say of what's happening in the macro at the
• 53:16
  team level. Like that is the most important
• 53:18
  thing is training and practice design like that.
• 53:21
  That's what I'm the most passionate about.
• 53:23
  Like the strength conditioning stuff is so limited, but like
• 53:25
  training design, like if you could have an effect on the way
• 53:28
  an entire organization, the entire team trains from all the
• 53:32
  way from the weight room to to skill specific practice to like
• 53:37
  tactics or like tactical practice.
• 53:39
  And you can integrate all of these fundamental like
• 53:42
  procedures. That's that's the most important
• 53:45
  thing and that's what gives the athlete the most value.
• 53:47
  And you already kind of see that at the team sport level, right?
• 53:50
  Like the best coaches typically have a pretty inherent ability
• 53:55
  to understand general physical adaptation.
• 53:57
  One of those favorite ones I think of is Saban.
• 54:00
  Like Saban did a really good job periodizing practice plan.
• 54:04
  Like that was sneaky. Like one of his best things.
• 54:07
  Like, I don't think he was the best tactician.
• 54:10
  Obviously he was a great recruiter.
• 54:11
  You know, I'm a PAC 12 guy. I'm not an SEC guy.
• 54:13
  You know, they might have been goosing around over there.
• 54:15
  But like, like he was really, really good at periodizing
• 54:20
  practice plans to get his guy, keep his guys healthy and get
• 54:23
  keep them getting stronger throughout the season.
• 54:25
  And So what you need is more people, whether they have, no
• 54:29
  matter what the title of their role is, that have a really,
• 54:33
  really holistic understanding of athletes from general to
• 54:36
  technical to tactical, having as much authority over in his
• 54:39
  organization from a macro standpoint as possible.
• 54:43
  I think you're going to see more and more people to strength
• 54:45
  conditioning background getting into AGM and GM positions in the
• 54:49
  MLB. You're going to see way more of
• 54:51
  them and like head coach, adjacent associate head coach
• 54:54
  positions in the NBA and the MLS.
• 54:57
  And you're going to continue to see that trend forward in the
• 54:59
  NFL. So now for the layman, how are
• 55:03
  we going to know that that is occurring?
• 55:06
  What are the seeds that we might see dropping that are indicative
• 55:12
  of that change? I always like to say that, you
• 55:15
  know, change happens slowly and then all at once.
• 55:17
  I mean, you can see the seeds kind of happening already,
• 55:19
  right? Like, I think the most
• 55:21
  interesting form of this is skill specific motor learning
• 55:24
  principles making their way into the mainstream, especially like
• 55:28
  ecological dynamics and dynamic system theory.
• 55:30
  Like these are all very like scientific training principles
• 55:35
  that are slowly making their way into the way we think about like
• 55:38
  training technical and tactical skills, right?
• 55:40
  We've, we've been so deep into block practice and so deep into
• 55:44
  a really high success rate practice for so long.
• 55:47
  And there it takes a few people with a very human Physiology
• 55:51
  efficacy background to come in and go the way we're training
• 55:53
  doesn't make any sense. Like we are making way too many
• 55:55
  shots in practice. There's there's nothing context
• 55:58
  represented enough to drive an adaptation.
• 56:00
  Like these principles don't work.
• 56:01
  And I think the the best example to look at that is Alex Serama,
• 56:05
  if you've read the book Transforming Basketball, which
• 56:07
  is a fantastic book, and Sarama is a great guy, but he's gone
• 56:10
  from being the skill motor learning guy for the Cavaliers
• 56:16
  and now he's the head coach of AWNB A-Team.
• 56:18
  And you're going to see more of these lateral moves keep going
• 56:21
  where someone is really good at holistically understanding human
• 56:27
  performance and how to teach people skills.
• 56:29
  And they can go do that in any sport They so choose.
• 56:33
  The, the people that should work under them are actually the
• 56:35
  tacticians. And maybe the more the people
• 56:38
  have been around the game longer to deliver that.
• 56:40
  But I, I'm really confident. I think about my buddy Clayton
• 56:42
  Thompson all the time. Clayton has worked to drive on
• 56:44
  and then works for the Los Angeles Dodgers.
• 56:46
  But like, Clayton could go run an NFL team.
• 56:49
  Clayton could go run an NBA team.
• 56:50
  He could do any of it because he understands training
• 56:53
  intrinsically really, really well and he understands how to
• 56:56
  get people physically and neurologically prepared to learn
• 57:01
  skills. And so because of that, like he
• 57:03
  can, he can do anything. And I think you're going to
• 57:05
  continue to see more of those lateral moves and continue to
• 57:07
  see those type of people really taking the front stage and elite
• 57:11
  sport. Then maybe I'll drop A-Team to
• 57:14
  watch here. Based on what you just shared,
• 57:16
  and it was a group that you actually mentioned earlier, I
• 57:20
  think the Chicago Cubs are actually a group leading the way
• 57:23
  in this. They do an incredible job on the
• 57:27
  player development side, presented on this this past year
• 57:30
  at the Wake Forest Player Development Seminar.
• 57:32
  So if anyone wants to learn more about that, go check out the
• 57:36
  episode that Josh Hedgekin and I did together.
• 57:38
  I apologize. I don't remember if it was Part
• 57:40
  1 or Part 2. So I guess this is me calling
• 57:42
  you to go listen to both. More listens.
• 57:44
  I promise you, it's all good content.
• 57:46
  At least I think it is. Maybe that's biased because I'm
• 57:49
  the speaker on it, but definitely go check that out.
• 57:52
  The reason I bring up the Cubs, though, is they're looking at
• 57:55
  how to structure practices differently in the Dominican.
• 57:58
  And that's, that goes well beyond just how do we get guys
• 58:03
  better at baseball, How do we get them better at everything
• 58:07
  that goes into being the best baseball player possible?
• 58:10
  So they need to increase weight room education, they need to
• 58:15
  increase what it means to have long term physical health,
• 58:19
  understand their bodies, understand what it means to
• 58:22
  practice. So then when they ultimately go
• 58:25
  to the States, they have significantly more baseball
• 58:28
  education, significantly more physical education, and then
• 58:31
  they are capable of going and competing right away with no
• 58:34
  longer being concerned of the skills that it actually takes to
• 58:38
  be a professional baseball player.
• 58:40
  That comes from the way that they are going about not just
• 58:43
  teaching the athletes, but actually creating the
• 58:46
  environments for these athletes to learn in.
• 58:48
  And then the example, or I guess you didn't even go super deep on
• 58:52
  the example, but you mentioned the name of someone involved.
• 58:56
  The Cubs are without a doubt one of the leaders when it comes to
• 58:59
  high performance right now in Major League Baseball.
• 59:02
  The way they go about prep, the way they go about getting their
• 59:05
  athletes ready for competition is one of the best that I've
• 59:09
  seen. And I feel like they're really
• 59:11
  revolutionizing the space so that that's kind of my team to
• 59:15
  watch. If anyone can get some insider
• 59:18
  video of what goes on at Cubs camp or maybe maybe dial into a
• 59:23
  presentation here and there, I highly suggest following that
• 59:28
  from all the examples Bryce just gave.
• 59:31
  Yeah, that's right. Go Cubs.
• 59:31
  Go. Yeah, the team, the team of the
• 59:32
  Cubs is awesome. Obviously Stefan Simmons and
• 59:35
  Connor Rooney and Alan Cooper, like former guys I've worked
• 59:38
  with. And obviously the director of
• 59:39
  play development, Jason, Jason Kansler has a really, really
• 59:42
  holistic view on on developing, developing athletes, especially
• 59:46
  former physics teacher, which I always expect.
• 59:49
  You got to know your Newtonian physics if you want to do this
• 59:51
  stuff. And the boys looking for guys
• 59:53
  that know they're in Newtonian physics.
• 59:54
  But yeah, great, great team over there, obviously doing really,
• 59:56
  really important, impactful things.
• 59:59
  And then the other thing to really pay attention to is what
• 1:00:03
  you're going to see here in a few years, in the next 10 years
• 1:00:06
  especially, is you're seeing that all of these ownership
• 1:00:08
  groups are starting to own more teams in professional sports,
• 1:00:12
  right? And you're starting to see this
• 1:00:13
  Academy structure really pop up in different parts of the world.
• 1:00:17
  And Chester United has multiple academies in Brazil and
• 1:00:20
  Argentina and South Africa and so on and so forth.
• 1:00:23
  And what you're going to begin to see is these ownership groups
• 1:00:26
  that own these teams. Are going to be putting these
• 1:00:30
  people that really understand training design and athletic
• 1:00:33
  development in charge of these large academies.
• 1:00:36
  And so essentially the ownership group that owns the the Dodgers
• 1:00:39
  or that owns the Red Sox, all of the teams at the end.
• 1:00:42
  So if you own the Red Sox, I don't know who owns the Red Sox,
• 1:00:44
  but and the Red Sox and the Bruins and some other team,
• 1:00:47
  right? You're just going to have one
• 1:00:48
  Academy and you're just going to train all the kids.
• 1:00:50
  And then you're just going to select them into what sport fits
• 1:00:53
  them the best. You're just going to build this
• 1:00:55
  Academy of like super elite athlete movers.
• 1:00:58
  And then you're slowly going to select them into what sports the
• 1:01:00
  best. And so you're going to see this
• 1:01:02
  with a massive budget on a massive scale start to happen in
• 1:01:06
  the next 20 years where the best big league pitcher and the best
• 1:01:10
  NFL wide receiver formerly trained at the same Academy
• 1:01:14
  together and did both. And of course, you already kind
• 1:01:15
  of see that in the American high school level where you have some
• 1:01:18
  of these kids that go to IMG and all this stuff together.
• 1:01:20
  But especially, especially internationally, this is going
• 1:01:23
  to become a a really massive thing, which is really, really
• 1:01:27
  interesting for the field itself.
• 1:01:29
  I really like that take. I'm excited about it, and I
• 1:01:33
  don't know how much we're going to see this in the States.
• 1:01:36
  I like it, at least on paper. Down the street from you there
• 1:01:40
  is a new middle middle school that opened up in Saint
• 1:01:43
  Petersburg that is so. It is a public school as well,
• 1:01:46
  but it is supposed to be very focused on health and physical
• 1:01:50
  education. And I don't know how much sports
• 1:01:55
  are actually involved in that, But I hey, I'm fully supportive
• 1:01:59
  if you, if we're going to start having more schools pop up with
• 1:02:02
  a greater focus on health and physical education, I'm going to
• 1:02:05
  say that's probably in the long run going to be pretty good for
• 1:02:09
  the health of our greater population.
• 1:02:11
  So I'll I'll take it if it doesn't produce pro level
• 1:02:14
  athletes, if it just creates people that know how to be
• 1:02:18
  healthy for a living, I think that's awesome.
• 1:02:21
  It's the most important thing, right?
• 1:02:22
  You we get so lost in the in the granular aspects of like the
• 1:02:25
  elite sport industry that we forget that we have a huge
• 1:02:28
  problem in America that you don't see in Europe and these
• 1:02:31
  other places, right? You know, I have to give the
• 1:02:34
  Europeans their credit every once in awhile.
• 1:02:35
  Like every time I've gone over there and trained, like I've saw
• 1:02:38
  these kids that are playing every sport.
• 1:02:40
  They're incredible movers. They have a great relationship
• 1:02:42
  with training. Like they really do it right
• 1:02:44
  over there with the long term athletic development.
• 1:02:46
  And even in Canada, they do a such a better, better job than
• 1:02:49
  us. Where in America we think of it,
• 1:02:51
  like I said earlier, is like, OK, well, if you're not good
• 1:02:54
  enough to go D1, like, why are you even doing anything?
• 1:02:56
  You know what I mean? We don't, we don't have this, we
• 1:02:58
  don't have this relationship with being active for life that
• 1:03:01
  that sport is supposed to bring us.
• 1:03:02
  And it's really a disgusting, I hate to put on my Red Hat, a
• 1:03:05
  disgusting capitalist structure who keep going here, but like
• 1:03:09
  we've got to, we've got to obviously democratize sports
• 1:03:12
  science principles. We've got to democratize good
• 1:03:14
  training design and we've got to democratize physical activity
• 1:03:17
  for everybody, right? And this is one of the original
• 1:03:20
  goals of dragline baseball. You have these things that are a
• 1:03:22
  pedestal motion capture and all these things.
• 1:03:25
  And like now we're selling these launchpads to different teams.
• 1:03:28
  And you're going to continue to see this trickle down throughout
• 1:03:30
  the game where at some point a kid in Dunedin, FL or whatever
• 1:03:34
  is just going to be able to go to some place and get a motion
• 1:03:37
  capture and a fourth assessments can tell them how it is.
• 1:03:39
  It's going to help them with the training plan.
• 1:03:41
  And like those principles are going to trickle down and it's
• 1:03:43
  going to be vastly more affordable, right?
• 1:03:45
  Because what we've seen in American sport is that it's
• 1:03:48
  become vastly more expensive. And we need to go the opposite
• 1:03:50
  way. We need to be democratizing
• 1:03:52
  these principles for everybody. And that's how we, that's like,
• 1:03:55
  my real passion is like American, American sport
• 1:03:58
  training design is the thing that I really do believe is that
• 1:04:01
  like we have the best population of athletes.
• 1:04:05
  We have the most resources to train them and we should never,
• 1:04:08
  ever lose a World Cup. Like we should never not win a
• 1:04:12
  gold medal ever. Like there should never be a
• 1:04:15
  time where anyone holds a gold medal that isn't American.
• 1:04:18
  I really do believe this. And like we have the possibility
• 1:04:20
  to do it from a macro scale and, and the work that people even
• 1:04:25
  like the guys that work for the Cubs are doing gets us one step
• 1:04:28
  closer to being there. That kind of sounds like a mic
• 1:04:31
  drop stop to the podcast. I don't even know how I ask
• 1:04:34
  another question after that, because there's our call to
• 1:04:37
  action for the entire country, right?
• 1:04:40
  Like how, how do I go? How do I now ask a question
• 1:04:43
  specific about, I don't know, Golgi tenant, like I don't know,
• 1:04:48
  that's the call to action. I think that's good enough for
• 1:04:50
  me. So Bryce, I don't know, maybe
• 1:04:53
  maybe from here. I just asked, is there a way
• 1:04:56
  people can get in touch with you directly or follow what you're
• 1:04:58
  doing? Yeah, of course.
• 1:05:00
  So you can find me on Twitter at Credor, under score, HP.
• 1:05:03
  You can find me on Instagram at Credit Performance.
• 1:05:06
  I'm really active on both of those.
• 1:05:07
  Post a ton of stuff. You can find me at my website at
• 1:05:12
  w.creditperformance.com. I have a ton of my blogs and
• 1:05:16
  writing and different stuff on there.
• 1:05:17
  And there's always a contact me button if you want to e-mail me
• 1:05:19
  if you have any questions. And then obviously if you want
• 1:05:21
  to come train with me, go to driveonebaseball.com back slash
• 1:05:24
  training and let's get you set up with, with an assessment and
• 1:05:28
  a training plan. But yeah, and then obviously a
• 1:05:29
  ton, a ton of resources on my website.
• 1:05:31
  I have a reading list on there. Two other people I'd really pay
• 1:05:34
  attention to are, if you're into the, obviously you're in the
• 1:05:37
  flex program sphere, there's a, there's an article that you
• 1:05:40
  absolutely have to read by my really good friend Adam Blue
• 1:05:44
  Bomb. It's called Tendon Adaptations
• 1:05:46
  and throwers. It's, it's like the Seminole
• 1:05:48
  piece on this, like you have to read it.
• 1:05:51
  It's super important. It's on his website at
• 1:05:54
  adambluebomb.com, like incredible, incredible article.
• 1:05:57
  There's a few other incredible articles written by my good
• 1:06:00
  friend Clayton Thompson that are great reads.
• 1:06:03
  And then obviously there's a few other really bright guys at
• 1:06:06
  Driveline. Connor White.
• 1:06:07
  Go read, you know, watch some of Stephen Simmons and stuff.
• 1:06:09
  Watch the Jason Candler stuff from the Wake Forest
• 1:06:12
  presentation. Yeah, ton of ton of interesting
• 1:06:14
  stuff out there and hopefully you can find some of it via
• 1:06:18
  stumbling onto my stuff. Well, nothing Josh Hedgeka has
• 1:06:21
  done though, right? Josh Hedgea is extremely
• 1:06:23
  interesting and he is the man and I'm going to make him throw
• 1:06:26
  87 from below 18 release height. Josh Hedgeka is not to hit the
• 1:06:31
  Josh Hetchka button, but anyone out there who's like AGM, you
• 1:06:33
  should probably sign Josh Hetchka.
• 1:06:35
  He's might have a more interesting profile than Tyler
• 1:06:38
  Tyler Rogers by this point. And the work that I've done with
• 1:06:41
  Josh Hetchka this offseason has been like insanely interesting.
• 1:06:44
  He threw E 6 or whatever it was 87 from a three release site
• 1:06:48
  last year and we've got him to the same velocity below 1.8 like
• 1:06:52
  that. That's that's pretty, pretty
• 1:06:54
  insane stuff and it's very fun to watch.
• 1:06:56
  So Josh Hetchka, obviously the man, somebody signed him and he
• 1:07:00
  does great work with the full stuff and all that too.
• 1:07:03
  Yes, I think that is our mission at this point to get Hedgeka
• 1:07:07
  signed and he is certainly setting the record for most
• 1:07:11
  mentions on the podcast at this point, certainly most
• 1:07:14
  consecutive. So shout out him for that.
• 1:07:17
  But Bryce, once again, thank you so much for joining us on this
• 1:07:20
  Wednesday evening. Looking forward to staying in
• 1:07:23
  touch and growing together in this game.
• 1:07:26
  And of course, to everyone out there, thanks for laying back
• 1:07:29
  with us.