Latest / World Ablaze with George Fontes / Royce D'Orazio - Content Creation, Media, and Scandals

Transcript

Royce D'Orazio - Content Creation, Media, and Scandals · World Ablaze with George Fontes

• 0:00
  push all right we're going hoist got it going after technical difficulties so we're fine um
• 0:11
  this is the thing this is the thing for me i don't i don't do the typical interview question
• 0:16
  answer thing i like to um i like to do a little background and eventually in our conversation
• 0:20
  your background comes out in terms of your experiences and whatnot so yeah welcome to the
• 0:26
  show that's the way we do it the one thing i gotta ask though is i'm not gonna pronounce your last
• 0:29
  name because I'm going to not do any justice.
• 0:31
  So if you could possibly do that for me,
• 0:33
  I'm horrible. I really
• 0:35
  am. Well, first of all, thank you for
• 0:37
  having me. I appreciate that.
• 0:40
  You're welcome. And
• 0:41
  you can butcher it however you'd like, but my full
• 0:43
  name is Royce D'Arazio.
• 0:45
  That's just the cleanest,
• 0:47
  easiest way to say it. He's the way to do it.
• 0:49
  All right, Royce. Well,
• 0:51
  thanks for being here. Now, going
• 0:53
  through, I'm going to be honest with you. I've been listening to a lot of
• 0:55
  your podcasts lately.
• 0:57
  And it's...
• 0:58
  not bad. No, but it seems like we have a, have a little bit of a, um, similarities in terms of
• 1:04
  what we have done possibly in some backgrounds. Uh, and then I was looking through your blog and
• 1:09
  I see that you do, you know, you write a little bit on some politics, but you're also just about,
• 1:13
  hey, what's happening, current events, et cetera. And I did hear one podcast that you did where you
• 1:19
  were talking about streaming and content creation. So, I mean, there's a lot of ways we can go here
• 1:23
  because I think all of those things are good topics to have,
• 1:27
  especially since everybody is trying to get into the podcast space.
• 1:30
  Everybody wants to be a content creator, etc.
• 1:32
  And I think they have a lot of a big false sense of what it takes to do this.
• 1:37
  And your son has been doing this longer than me,
• 1:39
  so I'm sure you have a lot more stories.
• 1:41
  But I know you were doing the TikTok thing for quite a bit.
• 1:43
  Don't know if you still do.
• 1:44
  That's something I never got into.
• 1:46
  But let's start with where you came from with your content creation and why.
• 1:50
  I mean, honestly, you can tell me why.
• 1:53
  You know, as you ask that, I think it goes further back than I realized because I had an internet radio show before podcasting was a term.
• 2:04
  And we were in a guest house in Beverly Hills.
• 2:08
  And we had four phone lines trunked, like real phone lines trunked into each other.
• 2:15
  And we would go live on rant radio.
• 2:18
  And we did this underground show for like two years every Sunday.
• 2:22
  podcasting came out and I didn't understand it at first.
• 2:25
  Turns out it just means recorded.
• 2:28
  So it goes that far back.
• 2:29
  The TikTok thing is a whole other ride.
• 2:31
  I fell into that during the pandemic and that was based in a lot of IRL stuff, but mostly
• 2:37
  Disney parks.
• 2:38
  And now I'm trying to break that whole thing.
• 2:40
  Okay.
• 2:41
  Well, what attracted you to doing underground radio?
• 2:44
  I've always loved radio.
• 2:45
  I grew up listening to Stern.
• 2:46
  I'm from the Philly suburbs and I just love talk.
• 2:51
  okay you know i've got a face for radio the gift the gab so it's a good combination
• 2:55
  and i i think that especially in today's world and one of the reasons i'm loving sub stack so much is
• 3:03
  it's like perfect for audio and people are always looking and i love radio because it just forces
• 3:09
  you to listen so i've just always loved radio and one of the things that stern did for me growing up
• 3:16
  was I felt like I was sitting in a room
• 3:18
  with contemporaries hanging out.
• 3:22
  And that added value,
• 3:24
  especially when you get to a point
• 3:25
  when you're growing up
• 3:26
  where you feel like you're all alone, right?
• 3:28
  So to have those familiar voices
• 3:29
  that would maybe inform me a little bit,
• 3:32
  make me laugh,
• 3:34
  there's value to that, you know?
• 3:36
  Yeah.
• 3:36
  I've always been more on the audio side
• 3:39
  personally as well.
• 3:40
  There's something about hearing a conversation
• 3:42
  without the distraction of visuals.
• 3:44
  But with this big push lately
• 3:46
  with all the podcast aggregators, hosts.
• 3:48
  Everybody wants to go to video.
• 3:49
  They think it's the thing.
• 3:50
  But when I look at what's going on in statistics,
• 3:53
  I still have more downloads and more interaction
• 3:56
  on my audio side than I do on the video side, regardless.
• 3:58
  It's just two different worlds.
• 4:00
  It's two different ways of consuming it,
• 4:01
  two different people that want to go ahead
• 4:03
  and consume it a certain way, really.
• 4:05
  So I like audio.
• 4:06
  It allows you to focus and really hear the conversation.
• 4:10
  Now, with that being said,
• 4:12
  let's talk about your podcast.
• 4:13
  There's a few episodes.
• 4:15
  I don't even know if we can talk about this, but one thing that drew my interest, I don't
• 4:18
  know how far you want to go there because you're a little vague about it anyway.
• 4:21
  It was kind of a shorter one.
• 4:21
  When you were talking about James Gunn a little bit, I really wasn't sure the whole story
• 4:27
  on that.
• 4:28
  Yeah.
• 4:28
  You know, given the nature of my podcast, by the way, it's pretty much current events,
• 4:32
  politics, geopolitics.
• 4:33
  Now, I'm not sure how political we're going to get, but this is something that really caught
• 4:37
  my attention given the Superman movie.
• 4:38
  And there's a few things that you said in terms of like, you know, maybe he stepped on
• 4:43
  people to get where he got. And you didn't say exactly like that. I am. That's just kind of how
• 4:48
  I heard it. But the reality is, can you get more background on that situation and what you know,
• 4:53
  and kind of what you heard secondhand? Because I wanted to get more detail on that if you're
• 4:57
  talking about it. I'm happy to talk about it. And I love that's what you chose.
• 5:02
  So let me start with this. I grew up with some guys that wound up becoming close to and working
• 5:10
  with James. So what I have to say comes through those accounts, not through reading things online.
• 5:18
  It's not even secondhand. I guess technically it's secondhand, but it's really it's firsthand.
• 5:23
  So at the time that... Well, let me start with James as a person and as a writer. I personally,
• 5:30
  and this is just a personal opinion, think he's a horrible writer. And if you want proof,
• 5:35
  go back to those Scooby-Doo movies where he made Scrappy-Doo the villain. I mean,
• 5:38
  Who does that?
• 5:39
  Right?
• 5:39
  Like, who does that?
• 5:41
  That's bizarre.
• 5:43
  So, but the first Guardians of the Galaxy was developed by a woman named Nicole Perlman.
• 5:49
  I think it was about a decade in development.
• 5:51
  So he plucked it.
• 5:53
  And she got some benefits off of it.
• 5:55
  I don't know if it was a producer credit or what.
• 5:58
  But he took everything with it.
• 5:59
  And he, from what I heard through the people that I know, is that he kicked and screamed.
• 6:05
  He had a web series at the time with a raccoon puppet, I believe.
• 6:12
  And he got that going enough that he was able to say, I know how to do this.
• 6:18
  I know how to do this.
• 6:19
  And he's so...
• 6:20
  But what I know that's more important and more relevant to where you're going with this is they went to those parties.
• 6:27
  I saw the photos from those, the parties that my quote unquote former...
• 6:33
  Well, now they're former friends, so I can say that.
• 6:35
  Former friends went to where the priest and child party.
• 6:43
  I don't remember exactly what they called it, but it was either you dressed up as a child or you dressed up as an abuser, a priest.
• 6:49
  That was the premise, right?
• 6:51
  Their premise, not mine.
• 6:53
  So it was, I don't know if they called it priest and pedophiles and you could go, well, that doesn't even make sense.
• 6:57
  But who really needs to waste that much time thinking about the logic?
• 7:00
  Right.
• 7:00
  and the kind of people they hang out with.
• 7:03
  Some of them are self-proclaimed.
• 7:04
  There's a band that they hang out with.
• 7:06
  So it was this type of group of people.
• 7:08
  And there's a lot of familiar names
• 7:09
  that you would know that were at these parties
• 7:11
  that I was told was at these parties.
• 7:13
  But moreover, when the whole thing broke with Disney,
• 7:17
  I had already seen those photos
• 7:19
  on the person's cell phone who went to the party.
• 7:23
  The article that you may be referring to
• 7:25
  that I wrote about with the individual in it
• 7:28
  is somebody that I grew up with.
• 7:29
  and when I went to source the photos for my sub stack,
• 7:32
  I didn't realize that he would be in the picture
• 7:35
  and it jarred me.
• 7:36
  And this is somebody, I mean, I grew up with.
• 7:38
  Someone you really knew personally.
• 7:40
  Correct.
• 7:40
  To the extent that I have IMDB credits with them.
• 7:43
  Okay.
• 7:45
  Yeah, I'm sure that was a shock.
• 7:48
  The photo was a shock.
• 7:49
  I knew he was there and I knew he was part of it
• 7:52
  and I'm privy to a lot more than what I just said.
• 7:55
  But that's me laying the tracks for you.
• 7:58
  So take it where you'd like.
• 7:59
  Well, you know, it's really getting down to, I'm sure you can only say so much without
• 8:06
  getting in trouble, right?
• 8:07
  James Gunn is, he's a fairly powerful figure, I guess.
• 8:12
  You can't sue somebody for the truth, can you?
• 8:14
  Well, you want to know what I believe?
• 8:16
  I really don't give a damn who they are.
• 8:19
  If they did it, in my opinion, fuck them.
• 8:21
  I don't really care.
• 8:22
  I don't care how powerful they think they are.
• 8:24
  Not going to affect me personally, honestly.
• 8:26
  Correct.
• 8:27
  They're just not.
• 8:28
  They don't control my income.
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  So, you know, as far as, as far as you're concerned, you mean be as open as you want
• 8:33
  to be.
• 8:34
  But the reality is I personally didn't know about these parties that he was involved in
• 8:39
  and the tie to Disney.
• 8:42
  Like I didn't understand everything that was going on.
• 8:44
  I just, I just know that all of a sudden he's just started coming up.
• 8:48
  Not sure why.
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  I know that the movies he's been involved with were, yeah, they're kind of like, okay,
• 8:53
  but yet everybody's praising this guy.
• 8:54
  And so when I heard your podcast, you're talking about this, you know, these allegations or
• 8:58
  whatever was going on with these parties, like kiddie parties or pedophile parties, if you want
• 9:02
  to call it that, it really just caught my attention. I really was like, whoa, what the hell is going on
• 9:07
  with this? And it really, really raised the question because it sounds like you know a lot
• 9:11
  of people in that world, right? Just from growing up with people, you have associations, and it's
• 9:17
  really like the stories that we always hear about this. I mean, are they really true? Is there a lot
• 9:21
  of that going on in Hollywood in general? Yes. Really? There's a lot of that that goes on in the
• 9:27
  world, period. And not that I'm trying to flip it into a plug, but I literally just wrote an article
• 9:32
  that was really more of an info dump. It wasn't even really an article. It's literally an info
• 9:37
  dump. But when you stop and you look at that level of power and those people, it transcends
• 9:44
  party politics. It transcends religion and any other ideology. And at that point, it becomes
• 9:49
  about nothing other than more power and more money. So that's why you'll never see the Epstein
• 9:54
  files, you know, because everybody's involved at that level.
• 10:00
  Well, yeah.
• 10:00
  And that we can absolutely assume.
• 10:03
  And then since you brought that up, you know, also the other tie that everyone can see if
• 10:07
  you're actually just connecting the dots, even at a third grade level, did he?
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  How was that not related?
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  You know, everyone saw it and then suddenly he gets off, you know, slap on the wrist,
• 10:20
  really.
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  and as far as the Epstein files go,
• 10:23
  it's very evident that,
• 10:25
  look, if there was nothing that was going on there,
• 10:27
  why was Jill saying Maxwell arrested?
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  Why?
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  For what?
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  Being a pimp only?
• 10:35
  Well, I don't know how you,
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  I mean, I think it's indisputable
• 10:37
  there was something going on, right?
• 10:39
  Yeah.
• 10:39
  So she was arrested for being a pimp.
• 10:41
  There was no list,
• 10:42
  but somehow they had to hold her.
• 10:44
  Now she's trying to negotiate,
• 10:45
  saying she's going to release names in the list.
• 10:48
  If Epstein wasn't who he was,
• 10:50
  didn't have the connections he did. Why would he kill or not kill himself? However you want to
• 10:55
  coin that one. So there was a lot going on here that everyone's trying to hide and cover. Obviously
• 11:00
  to me, what I thought in the beginning, because I was looking at it from the geopolitical point
• 11:04
  of view was they didn't want to release the list because I think personally, I don't know for sure,
• 11:09
  this is all conjecture, but I think that there was ties to world leaders that would really upend
• 11:15
  everybody's world. And at the moment, they couldn't just release all these names because
• 11:20
  it would just be a shitstorm. So I think that's what was really going on in the beginning. But now
• 11:24
  I'm not really sure what's going on. So they have evidence, then they don't have evidence,
• 11:29
  then they do have evidence. I mean, they had about two decade investigation into everything
• 11:34
  was doing, but somehow they don't have anything at all now. Like it all just disappeared.
• 11:39
  Well, so I think what it really, and it's interesting to talk about the idea that,
• 11:45
  oh, it'll bring down power structures and industries and all these things.
• 11:52
  But I think more importantly, it's just because Epstein is out of the picture
• 11:56
  doesn't mean that the leverage that he had, much like Diddy, doesn't hold value.
• 12:04
  So I think it's more about we don't want to release these things
• 12:08
  because we give away all the leverage we have on all these people.
• 12:12
  Why would we do that?
• 12:13
  So that could be the case.
• 12:17
  And while we may have leverage, it also sets the precedent so far that it's okay to get away with doing those heinous things, though.
• 12:25
  I mean, if there's never going to be accountability and they just keep getting away with it, so what does that say to the rest of the world?
• 12:31
  But I think that's the raw truth.
• 12:33
  Yeah.
• 12:34
  And look, I mean, Superman, so just let's bring this all up and wrap it up and about.
• 12:38
  Because it does.
• 12:38
  So Superman just opens up, right?
• 12:41
  Right. Superman is being produced.
• 12:44
  First of all, it's wild to me that he's directing the movie and the CEO at the same time.
• 12:48
  That should be considered a conflict of interest in that.
• 12:50
  Yeah, I heard you talk about that.
• 12:52
  Okay.
• 12:53
  So then on top of that you have the whole politicization of the Superman movie You have the James Gunn pedophilia accusations over the years and all of that Mishigas to use some Yiddish And then you have the Trump of it all
• 13:07
  I mean, it's all so murky. And then you have people arguing in ways that are just
• 13:15
  completely hypocritical because they can't see it for what it is. We live in a world where people
• 13:21
  at this level are not held accountable for their actions, period. It has nothing to do with party.
• 13:26
  yeah well and that's true but when i mean will we ever be able to hold anyone accountable in your
• 13:33
  in your opinion do you think it's ever going to happen or is it just because they are in a
• 13:36
  powerful position that's just going to constantly be able to get away with the lifestyle they live
• 13:39
  well i think trump is like the velociraptor in in the first jurassic park testing the weaknesses
• 13:46
  so what trump has done in as they like to call it 1.0 uh and and now is continue to test the
• 13:55
  weaknesses in the system, which only opens it up for somebody who's smarter, sharper,
• 14:02
  and more able to do more damage. That's, I think, the problem is that we're headed in that wrong
• 14:10
  direction. That's one of the reasons that I think we need to start having more open conversation
• 14:15
  from the middle and really get back to, I'm not here to persuade, and I don't mean literally with
• 14:20
  you. But I'm not here in the conversations I have with my audience or anybody or even you
• 14:25
  to persuade. I'm actually here to pick up something that I might not have thought of.
• 14:31
  And I think people need to get out of their silos. I see a lot of the same faces talking
• 14:35
  to the same people. It's like, to make another James Gunn reference, and I'll let the nerds pick
• 14:40
  this up on their own, but it's like the Toxic Avengers. When I see the same six people circulating
• 14:48
  on the same podcast.
• 14:49
  I'm like, you guys are just yelling
• 14:51
  at the same audience.
• 14:52
  You're not producing any new conversation
• 14:55
  because that's too much work.
• 14:59
  That's another conversation.
• 15:00
  That's something I agree with you on.
• 15:04
  Now, we'll get to that.
• 15:07
  As far as the James Gunn thing,
• 15:09
  I mean, Epstein, it is what it is.
• 15:11
  We know it's out there.
• 15:11
  It's unfortunate what's happening.
• 15:13
  But as far as James Gunn was concerned,
• 15:16
  I don't even know.
• 15:17
  How many, I mean, how deep does this go with him?
• 15:20
  How long has this been going on with all these allegations?
• 15:22
  I literally don't know.
• 15:23
  I never paid attention to the guy, to be quite honest.
• 15:26
  And I'm so engrossed with so many other things that I do on the podcast that I really,
• 15:30
  if you only take so much in, right?
• 15:31
  It's a crazy world right now.
• 15:32
  There's so much happening.
• 15:34
  How deep does that go that you know of?
• 15:36
  So the whole thing that happened with Disney in a nutshell was they started unearthing
• 15:41
  old tweets.
• 15:43
  This guy comes from the trauma world.
• 15:45
  So he's always sort of been the alternate guy, right?
• 15:49
  So he's always considered himself to be sort of a, you know, I don't know what you want to use.
• 15:56
  A provocateur is the word he would use.
• 15:58
  I don't quite think, I don't think he's quite that witty.
• 16:01
  I think he wishes he was a provocateur.
• 16:03
  But he would say these outlandish things over the years on Twitter.
• 16:07
  He had relationships, I cannot remember the name of the band, where they're self-proclaimed pedophiles.
• 16:11
  They would talk about going after young, underage girls.
• 16:16
  So he surrounded himself with these types of people.
• 16:20
  All I can tell you is that at the time that this happened,
• 16:24
  at the time that he was being fired,
• 16:28
  at the time he was working for Disney prior to being fired,
• 16:33
  he was having these parties because I know people that went there.
• 16:36
  And my one former friend came up to me and goes, look at what I wore.
• 16:43
  And he shows me his selfie where he dressed up like a child with a propeller hat on at the party.
• 16:49
  And I looked at him like, what is wrong with you?
• 16:53
  What part of you thinks this is something that I...
• 16:56
  This is not entertaining.
• 16:58
  And then again, if you are suggesting you're a provocateur, there's no audience here.
• 17:03
  This is behind closed doors.
• 17:04
  So what I can verify or what I can say verifiably is that those parties happened during that time. One of the people I know worked. One of the people I know, I'm deciding if I want to say what I want to say because somebody who's really sharp can put all the dots together.
• 17:26
  But one of the two people I'm talking about spent a long time getting close to James because it benefited their career.
• 17:36
  And it has to the extent that you'll find James has producer credits on all of their projects.
• 17:44
  So it's kind of one of those things where it's like, and that's the industry, right?
• 17:47
  I don't want to totally derail it, but I could tell you other stories of other situations, public stuff that you would know about.
• 17:56
  where I've worked with people who openly talked about these things as if they were okay.
• 18:03
  And these are people who on paper should be speaking out against these things,
• 18:09
  but they turned a blind eye because of their career.
• 18:12
  And I'm talking about people that work with Cosby, by the way.
• 18:14
  So it's sort of like one of these things where, again, there's no party lines anymore.
• 18:18
  I could tell you that I'm a Democrat.
• 18:20
  I could tell you I'm a Republican.
• 18:22
  It doesn't really matter.
• 18:23
  I'm making a ton of money.
• 18:24
  I'm turning a blind eye to your transgressions.
• 18:27
  Right.
• 18:28
  That's Hollywood.
• 18:29
  That's really everything.
• 18:31
  It's not fair to just pick on Hollywood.
• 18:32
  No, no, no, no.
• 18:33
  But we're talking about Hollywood since we,
• 18:36
  well, I brought up the James Gunn thing.
• 18:37
  Yeah.
• 18:38
  So that's why we're discussing it.
• 18:40
  But what gets me is I don't have that mindset.
• 18:43
  Like, what is attractive about a child?
• 18:47
  Like, what is it about that type of person
• 18:48
  or people like that that they need to abuse
• 18:53
  and destroy children.
• 18:55
  Why?
• 18:56
  I mean, I don't even want to have that conversation
• 18:58
  because then you're asking me to get inside that mindset.
• 19:00
  And I can only tell you,
• 19:01
  because I know you listened to that particular episode,
• 19:05
  that I've seen throughout my life
• 19:07
  a lot of this stuff firsthand.
• 19:09
  And I think it always comes back to the same thing.
• 19:13
  People like to see what they can get away with.
• 19:15
  I know it goes deeper,
• 19:17
  but generally speaking,
• 19:19
  when it comes to power and abuse,
• 19:22
  People like to see what they can get away with.
• 19:25
  Can I say anything on this podcast?
• 19:28
  Yeah.
• 19:28
  So I worked with a woman who at the time was over at NBC.
• 19:39
  Now, she said to us at lunch one day before this Bill Cosby stuff ever broke when Hannibal
• 19:45
  Barris broke it.
• 19:47
  She because she was a producer on the Cosby show as a young woman.
• 19:51
  She said very flippantly over lunch as if it was about running an errand.
• 19:56
  Bill Cosby used to force the PAs to give him blowjobs.
• 20:01
  As if she said Bill Cosby used to force the PAs to pick up his dry cleaning.
• 20:05
  You know, it's just a matter of what you do.
• 20:08
  It's part of your day.
• 20:10
  Now.
• 20:10
  that woman
• 20:13
  has an Oscar
• 20:15
  she's
• 20:18
  I don't want to make this issues that it's not
• 20:21
  but on paper
• 20:22
  you know
• 20:23
  Democrat
• 20:25
  Democrat supporter and I know these things
• 20:27
  firsthand because I worked on campaigns
• 20:29
  by happenstance that she was on
• 20:31
  just small world that way
• 20:33
  and went on to produce
• 20:36
  other people
• 20:36
  and you know beyond
• 20:39
  Cosby
• 20:40
  And so saw it for what it was back then, went on to trade off of other plights and get an Oscar. I'm trying to be a little vague there. And again, you look at this person, you go, well, I thought you were a liberal and I thought you were like, these are the issues and this is me too and all these things, but not when it comes to self-interest.
• 21:06
  right but you have to ask yourself if you were in that situation what would you really do
• 21:10
  i'm not really sure i mean that's that's the thing i've i've brought up um in other
• 21:18
  other conversations is like for example if we're talking about someone who's corrupt right we we
• 21:24
  think we think we want our politicians and everybody that all of our heroes are infallible
• 21:28
  someone waves a hundred million dollars in your face how infallible fallible you're gonna be you
• 21:32
  going to turn it down? Are you really going to say no? Are you going to say no if someone gives
• 21:36
  you $100 million? So can we bring that back to the Epstein thing for a minute?
• 21:41
  Yep. And let's just trade that money formula there for a power formula. You're any of these
• 21:50
  people. You're Kash Patel, you're Dan Bongino, right? And you're brought into an admin, right?
• 21:56
  And you get a look behind the curtain. And you realize that you were manipulated to the extent
• 22:02
  that Trump knew he was never going to release these Epstein files, right?
• 22:07
  But now you're in a position of power and you're being given the ultimate option.
• 22:12
  Do you give up your power or are you silenced in exchange to keep it?
• 22:16
  Or do you choose to speak up and then become ostracized and become the enemy?
• 22:20
  And you can already see that Trump is taking the, if you're not with me, you're against
• 22:25
  me approach by immediately turning anybody that doesn't agree with him, meaning his supporters,
• 22:31
  into the enemy to nullify this story.
• 22:36
  So it's just one of those things
• 22:37
  where you're trapped.
• 22:39
  I mean, imagine those guys coming in there
• 22:41
  and thinking that they were going to shed light on something
• 22:43
  and now they're like, oh, we're stuck.
• 22:47
  I mean, it's like the ultimate chess move, right?
• 22:50
  Yeah.
• 22:50
  I mean, you're as stuck as you want to be.
• 22:53
  I mean, this is just really the moral argument, right?
• 22:58
  The argument, the morality of the situation.
• 22:59
  And to me, you're going to have to make that choice.
• 23:04
  I mean, you don't want to destroy yourself.
• 23:07
  But at the same time, truth has to be told to make sure that we can decapitate this power structure.
• 23:13
  And that's really what it comes down to.
• 23:16
  I mean, sure, do you want to be held hostage by some greasy asshole who literally just has no moral compass whatsoever?
• 23:25
  He's taking advantage of the people in the system.
• 23:27
  I mean I don't think most people would
• 23:30
  now I think where people do not want to step out
• 23:34
  and where they don't want to bring down
• 23:36
  you know the kingdom so to speak
• 23:38
  is when their family is threatened
• 23:41
  I think most people on the personal level can care less
• 23:43
  but they don't want to sacrifice their family or the loved ones
• 23:46
  and if that's what's being held over their heads
• 23:48
  then that's where the issue is I believe
• 23:50
  someone like Dan Bongino
• 23:51
  I mean if you want to talk about that
• 23:53
  everyone has their opinion on this whole thing
• 23:56
  that's going on with this MAGA movement and all these individuals and, you know, self-proclaimed
• 24:00
  influencers and whatnot. But, you know, he gave up millions of dollars as a podcaster
• 24:04
  and wants to go ahead and now become, you know, part of the FBI deputy director, used to be a
• 24:11
  secret service agent. Great. He wanted to uncover things. So did Cash Patel. The whole reason these
• 24:16
  guys, or at least Cash was even, you know, got any supporters because he was supposed to expose,
• 24:20
  bring things down. Then we can also have the conversation as to why the hell was Pam Bondi
• 24:24
  even put into the position she was.
• 24:27
  You know, as far as I was concerned, I didn't really see much of what she did anything in
• 24:31
  Florida.
• 24:32
  Sure, she talked tough, but I mean.
• 24:34
  But maybe she was put there to make sure that the files never get released.
• 24:38
  Maybe that's why those binders came out.
• 24:40
  And then they realized that, oh, we thought we could pull a fast one.
• 24:43
  That didn't work.
• 24:45
  Kick the can.
• 24:46
  That didn't work.
• 24:47
  Here we are.
• 24:47
  Yeah, exactly.
• 24:48
  And that was just, that was.
• 24:51
  It was hilarious.
• 24:53
  That was beyond hilarious.
• 24:54
  That was the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
• 24:55
  You're going to give you X influencers.
• 24:56
  Would you take a picture with a binder celebrating that you've got pedophile documents?
• 25:00
  Like even if you were.
• 25:02
  It's not even just about that, Royce.
• 25:04
  To me, it's you're the White House.
• 25:07
  You're the White House.
• 25:08
  You're supposed to be held to a higher standard and you're going to use influencers and give
• 25:12
  them this access that you won't give anybody else.
• 25:15
  Right.
• 25:15
  What does that say about your administration?
• 25:18
  But that's why Dan Bongino got the job, right?
• 25:20
  Because the whole idea is that these people, this goes back to what you were saying.
• 25:24
  about family and doing things for the right reason.
• 25:27
  The problem is these folks are there for fame and power.
• 25:32
  And now a guy like Bongino is in the ultimate situation.
• 25:35
  And by the way, I was just kind of laughing more at the influencers holding the binders,
• 25:39
  celebrating pedophilia, even though they're anti-pedophilia.
• 25:43
  They're still holding those binders and celebrating it.
• 25:46
  Oh, yeah.
• 25:46
  I get it.
• 25:47
  I get it.
• 25:48
  But Bongino is in the ultimate lose-lose, win-win scenario because he's got,
• 25:53
  He gets to choose power or go back to his audience.
• 25:56
  But neither one of those are predicated on doing what right No It all about self And I don know him personally So I mean we can only assume what he thinking but just just
• 26:07
  just from how he has carried himself and what he's done in media,
• 26:11
  I think he would have loved to have stayed on his podcast.
• 26:14
  You know,
• 26:15
  I think sometimes it's better to be on the outside.
• 26:17
  Once you're on the inside,
• 26:18
  you don't like what you see.
• 26:20
  I can't,
• 26:21
  I can't necessarily say I can put any blame on him because he's not really in
• 26:24
  charge.
• 26:24
  He's,
• 26:24
  he's deputy director.
• 26:25
  I mean,
• 26:25
  at this point he's towing the line.
• 26:27
  He's trying to be careful what he says in light of representing the FBI and also being one of the prime picks by President Trump.
• 26:35
  He had Trump support himself.
• 26:37
  So I get where he's coming from.
• 26:38
  So I can't fault him.
• 26:40
  But the problem is we're seeing an FBI that is really a repeat of what everybody else said was wrong about the previous administration's FBI.
• 26:47
  What's the damn difference at this point?
• 26:50
  There's never going to be a difference.
• 26:51
  That's why they call it the deep state.
• 26:53
  Well, exactly.
• 26:54
  So listen, here's what happens.
• 26:56
  We mentioned Stern earlier, and I always use Stern as the analogy. Stern railed on Imus his entire early career, and then Stern became Imus because it's inevitable no matter what your genre is, when you hit success, it's inevitable that you become the very thing you were railing against.
• 27:20
  So Bongino will probably leave at some point because he's better off being on the outside
• 27:25
  making money yelling at a boogeyman.
• 27:27
  And maybe the boogeyman will become Trump or maybe he'll find a new boogeyman.
• 27:32
  But once you're on the inside, now you're accountable for the things you were railing
• 27:36
  against.
• 27:36
  And then there's that reality check.
• 27:38
  Like, oh, we don't get to make these decisions.
• 27:40
  They're made at a higher level.
• 27:42
  Oh, we're never going to release any of this stuff because it's going to ruin all the power
• 27:45
  structures in the world.
• 27:46
  and welcome to the club,
• 27:49
  but you're indoctrinated now.
• 27:51
  And you're like,
• 27:51
  well, I don't want to be
• 27:51
  in this club anymore.
• 27:53
  Well, yeah.
• 27:54
  I'm unfortunately the guy
• 27:55
  who says let it all fucking burn.
• 27:56
  I don't really care.
• 27:57
  I mean, I think the world
• 27:59
  needs a reset.
• 28:00
  Yes.
• 28:01
  Now, as far as, you know,
• 28:03
  Bongino just as the example,
• 28:05
  I don't want to get stuck
• 28:05
  on just him.
• 28:07
  No, but it's a very good example
• 28:08
  because it's a guy that,
• 28:10
  like, why did he get the job?
• 28:11
  It absolutely is a good example.
• 28:13
  But this really brings
• 28:14
  the old saying home.
• 28:16
  You don't know what you don't know.
• 28:19
  And the thing about power, it does corrupt.
• 28:23
  Let's take me, you.
• 28:24
  It doesn't even matter.
• 28:26
  Let's say one day we don't know.
• 28:27
  What if we became a Joe Rogan one day?
• 28:29
  What if that even happened?
• 28:31
  Could you imagine the pressures and everything that would be waved in front of you to tempt you, to try to mold and shape you?
• 28:39
  Once you get to a certain level, you don't want to let go of that.
• 28:42
  And I understand that.
• 28:43
  but as far as Bongino goes,
• 28:46
  I think he has enough strength
• 28:50
  and enough of a moral backbone
• 28:52
  that I don't think he wants to be where he's at.
• 28:55
  I think that he thought that
• 28:58
  he was getting into one situation
• 29:00
  where he was going to be able to make a difference,
• 29:01
  and now he's doing the,
• 29:04
  oh shit, what did I do?
• 29:06
  What did I do?
• 29:08
  Not that I was ever, to be honest,
• 29:10
  I was never a diehard fan.
• 29:11
  I respected who he was and what he did,
• 29:13
  didn't agree with everything he said, but at least he had, he, he, he stood for something,
• 29:19
  you know, he definitely wanted to expose, wanted to make sure that, you know, whatever was wrong
• 29:24
  was righted. And that's what he said. I mean, whether, whether you're like, you know, whether
• 29:29
  you're into being a Republican Democrat, to me, that doesn't matter for the most part, a lot of
• 29:34
  his messaging was really about trying to right the wrongs. And now he's on the other side of it.
• 29:38
  And he's looking like a jackass, you know, not, not his fault.
• 29:43
  He didn't know what he was walking into.
• 29:45
  So, well, that's, that's exactly what I think it is.
• 29:48
  And I think, you know, now he's in a, he's, he's caught in a catch 22 because he's, he's
• 29:53
  really damned no matter what he does, but his choices are power and money.
• 29:59
  I mean, he, I, he's going to be fine either way.
• 30:02
  Right.
• 30:03
  And as long as he doesn't totally bite the hand, which is why if he does leave and go
• 30:07
  back to podcasting, that's going to be a tough nut to crack because what are you going to do?
• 30:12
  You're going to start railing against Trump in the deep state?
• 30:15
  No, he won't do that.
• 30:17
  I mean, he's.
• 30:18
  But then what do you do?
• 30:20
  There's a larger question there.
• 30:22
  If you want to go a little bit wider with this.
• 30:24
  Well, we can go wider, but at some point he's going to have to try to save face just as
• 30:29
  anybody would.
• 30:30
  Yeah, but how does he do that?
• 30:31
  If you're him right now, how do you play this?
• 30:33
  Well, the only way to play it is to kind of go against your own laurels, to be quite honest.
• 30:40
  You would have to drum up the story that, look, I got inside.
• 30:46
  It's so dirty, I can't clean it up.
• 30:49
  And no matter what I did, I was under threat.
• 30:53
  I was under duress.
• 30:54
  I couldn't act out.
• 30:55
  And here I am.
• 30:56
  And while you're on the other side, there's no way that you would be able to say, look,
• 31:00
  everything was Trump's fault.
• 31:02
  The Trump administration is filthy.
• 31:03
  He's not going to say that.
• 31:04
  He is the setting president.
• 31:06
  He's not going to lose his connections and his access.
• 31:09
  But he can spin it if he wanted to, just like most everybody can spin this.
• 31:13
  Anybody who's really savvy in media can spin this story and come out the other side.
• 31:17
  Not necessarily clean, but maybe you won't look so bad.
• 31:20
  And let's just not go ahead and dismiss the fact that people have short memories.
• 31:25
  There's so much that's gone on in the world that people forgot in three days.
• 31:30
  I have these conversations with people all the time when we're talking about presidents and deportations and things like that.
• 31:34
  I'm like, wow, great.
• 31:35
  Did you know that Bill Clinton deported $12 million?
• 31:37
  Did you know that Obama took $750 billion away from Medicaid and raised taxes by $1 trillion?
• 31:42
  They go, no.
• 31:44
  This was your era.
• 31:45
  You worked in the administration at that time.
• 31:47
  You don't remember this?
• 31:48
  So it's the news cycle, right?
• 31:53
  The trick is this, and you probably know this way better than I.
• 31:57
  The trick is to overwhelm the public.
• 31:58
  You want to keep the news cycle spinning as fast as you can with enough flashy headlines
• 32:03
  that you can drum up to guide and misdirect people.
• 32:07
  It doesn't matter what happens.
• 32:09
  You know, if you're able to move quick enough in media and move the news cycle fast enough,
• 32:14
  people forget because our attention spans today are so short that nobody really is going
• 32:20
  to clamp down on it like a bulldog and not let go of it.
• 32:23
  They're eventually just going to be like, well, hold on.
• 32:26
  What did Elon Musk just say?
• 32:28
  You know, what happened?
• 32:29
  What did Putin do?
• 32:31
  Their attention span is so short that I know for fact politicians and people that have the power, as you say, and the money, they know this.
• 32:39
  They know this.
• 32:39
  That's why there's always the adage that, oh, they're rich and they're powerful.
• 32:43
  They're just going to get away with it because they know they will.
• 32:45
  If you could belay it long enough, if you could belay and delay the investigations, the prosecutions, et cetera, you're going to get away with it.
• 32:52
  People lose interest and people are going to forget about it.
• 32:54
  And that's just a fact.
• 32:55
  It's just the reality of the world we live in.
• 32:57
  So it's unfortunate, but it's true.
• 32:59
  It's really true.
• 33:00
  That's the Steve Bannon strategy, flood the zone with shit.
• 33:05
  I mean, that is why Trump says, I'm going to deport Rosie O'Donnell because he's trying
• 33:10
  to distract from the Epstein conversation.
• 33:12
  Yeah.
• 33:13
  But he'll see it through.
• 33:15
  Now, here's the thing, because you brought up a lot there, and I'm going to try to comment
• 33:20
  on all of it at once here.
• 33:21
  but he's a showbiz guy
• 33:24
  for better or worse
• 33:26
  and he fancies himself a showbiz guy
• 33:28
  so I could see a Bongino exit
• 33:30
  being like listen
• 33:32
  I know you're going to have to go out there
• 33:34
  and you're going to have to say
• 33:36
  what you need to say for your audience
• 33:37
  to save face
• 33:38
  and I know you're going to have to rail against me
• 33:41
  but like we're good
• 33:42
  you know what I mean
• 33:43
  like I know that Trump knows
• 33:45
  that the game is played that way
• 33:46
  I actually think not to derail this
• 33:49
  but I think Trump and Newsom are tight
• 33:51
  I think so too.
• 33:54
  Well,
• 33:54
  they're,
• 33:55
  they're,
• 33:55
  they're pretty much family.
• 33:56
  You know that,
• 33:56
  right?
• 33:57
  Well,
• 33:57
  how many,
• 33:57
  how often do you,
• 33:58
  do you always see them at,
• 34:00
  you know,
• 34:00
  when you can see footage of them at parties and whatnot,
• 34:02
  they're not,
• 34:02
  they're not sitting there stabbing each other in the back.
• 34:04
  They're shaking hands or smiling.
• 34:05
  They're cracking jokes.
• 34:06
  They all know each other.
• 34:07
  I'm sure there's,
• 34:07
  there's,
• 34:08
  there's definitely animosity between some.
• 34:11
  Absolutely.
• 34:12
  But they're all part of the same team.
• 34:15
  Realistically,
• 34:15
  they're all part of the same team.
• 34:17
  They're all politicians.
• 34:18
  They're all playing everybody for,
• 34:19
  for,
• 34:20
  as you said,
• 34:20
  power and money.
• 34:21
  and it's all about manipulation.
• 34:24
  It's misdirection, sleight of hand.
• 34:26
  That's exactly what we're dealing with.
• 34:29
  It's like when the discussion came up
• 34:33
  about what Elon Musk wants to do,
• 34:35
  and I know you had an opinion on this
• 34:36
  with this whole third-party thing.
• 34:39
  Great idea.
• 34:40
  It's not going to happen, and it's not going to work,
• 34:42
  but we do need more diversity in our choices.
• 34:46
  We absolutely do,
• 34:47
  but there's just too much money,
• 34:48
  and as you said, power within the two parties
• 34:50
  that it's never going to come to light.
• 34:51
  It's just not going to happen.
• 34:52
  As rich as Elon Musk is,
• 34:54
  he's not as rich as every single donor combined in the two parties.
• 34:58
  He's not going to,
• 34:59
  he's not going to break the surface.
• 35:00
  It's just not going to happen.
• 35:01
  I don't think a third party is enough to break the surface anymore.
• 35:05
  No,
• 35:05
  it really won't.
• 35:06
  They've tried with the tea party.
• 35:07
  They've,
• 35:08
  I mean,
• 35:08
  remember Ross Perot was probably the only one back in the day with enough
• 35:11
  money to get enough attention.
• 35:13
  And,
• 35:13
  and he,
• 35:13
  you know,
• 35:14
  he,
• 35:14
  he bumped it.
• 35:14
  He,
• 35:15
  he,
• 35:15
  he did,
• 35:16
  he did well,
• 35:16
  but still it just was not enough.
• 35:19
  And it's not saying that he was the perfect candidate to be a president,
• 35:21
  but it was a good example of what could be done.
• 35:24
  But in today's times,
• 35:25
  with the amount of bombardment of information
• 35:29
  and social media that everybody wakes up to
• 35:32
  and you just can't get away from it,
• 35:33
  good luck fighting that.
• 35:35
  You're just not going to be able to keep up
• 35:36
  with everybody else
• 35:37
  who's going to just be coming at you
• 35:38
  from all these other angles.
• 35:39
  So I don't think the third party is going to work out.
• 35:41
  It's a great idea.
• 35:42
  Does it need to happen?
• 35:43
  Sure.
• 35:43
  We have the Libertarian Party.
• 35:45
  Good luck with that too.
• 35:45
  They can't even decide whether or not
• 35:47
  they even want to be a political party.
• 35:49
  They have so much infighting
• 35:50
  because they can't agree on what they want to do
• 35:52
  and they can't even agree on who's going to lead the damn libertarian party.
• 35:55
  It's just a shit show.
• 35:56
  So what are our choices?
• 35:58
  And the independent party has become a workaround
• 36:00
  for anybody that needs to circumvent the rules.
• 36:05
  So Andrew Cuomo is going to use it right now,
• 36:07
  but either party will use the independent ticket to play ball.
• 36:11
  They will.
• 36:12
  I think the independent ticket is really coming down to
• 36:16
  the fact that people are just over it.
• 36:19
  but they don't seem to know where to turn.
• 36:22
  Right, but Cuomo running as an independent,
• 36:27
  that just further proves how broken the Democrat Party is.
• 36:31
  Absolutely.
• 36:32
  Because there's no room for a real independent
• 36:34
  if you're basically trying to flip the script
• 36:37
  and make the nominee of the Democrat Party the independent candidate.
• 36:41
  That's what he's trying to do.
• 36:43
  No, I completely understand.
• 36:45
  I get what he's doing, and he is sending a clear message.
• 36:49
  If we want to talk about parties, great.
• 36:52
  Let's talk about parties.
• 36:53
  They both suck, honestly.
• 36:56
  They both got their issues.
• 36:58
  The Democrat Party is probably the most broken at this point
• 37:01
  because there isn't a clear leader.
• 37:03
  There really is not.
• 37:06
  Sadly, I mean, years ago, a lot of people, including me,
• 37:09
  we were Democrat, voted Democrat.
• 37:12
  But they were a different party back then in the day.
• 37:14
  They've morphed into something else that nobody recognizes.
• 37:16
  and they do not seem to be able to get a pulse on what the people are really wanting
• 37:24
  and what is actually needed.
• 37:27
  They're too busy putting themselves first.
• 37:29
  Now, that can also be argued.
• 37:31
  Trump's doing the same damn thing.
• 37:34
  Sure.
• 37:35
  But he won on the message of putting America first.
• 37:39
  That's what everybody wanted.
• 37:40
  We can argue whether or not he's coming through in his promises.
• 37:43
  Sure, we could.
• 37:44
  but the Democrat party right now does not have a leader.
• 37:47
  Who's next?
• 37:47
  Who's the rising star?
• 37:49
  AOC,
• 37:49
  please not going to happen.
• 37:51
  Crockett.
• 37:52
  No,
• 37:53
  Buttigieg.
• 37:54
  Like who,
• 37:55
  who is going to step up and actually be the leader of that party?
• 37:59
  I hope it's somebody whose name we do not know at the moment.
• 38:03
  I,
• 38:03
  I agree.
• 38:04
  It would be great to,
• 38:06
  to suddenly like if there was some dark horse that just all of a sudden
• 38:10
  popped up and,
• 38:12
  and was able to move the needle and you're like,
• 38:14
  oh, wow, okay, this is what I've been looking for.
• 38:17
  This makes sense.
• 38:18
  But it's not even just about that.
• 38:19
  Anyone can tell the story and get the votes.
• 38:21
  It's really about, are you going to actually do what you say?
• 38:24
  Or once you're in there, are you going to let, like you said,
• 38:27
  the deep state take over and you just become that damn puppet on a string?
• 38:32
  Well, they're never going to get the chance.
• 38:34
  That's the real issue.
• 38:34
  Because if somebody did rise up, if this mythical creature rose up,
• 38:41
  Okay.
• 38:42
  Uh, they would be squashed by the establishment.
• 38:45
  That's the problem is that the Democrat party is run like a high school click
• 38:52
  and everything comes from the DNC and is dictated outward.
• 38:57
  And until that can be I mean look at what happened with David Hogg I don even like the guy but look at what happened with David Hogg Yeah he was supposed to be the face of the DNC He was supposed to be the guy
• 39:10
  That's very, I mean, listen, I'm sure him, I'm sure him and Dan Bongino could have a
• 39:17
  really good conversation over a beer.
• 39:20
  Oh, I'm sure.
• 39:21
  About getting too close to the sun.
• 39:23
  I'm very sure.
• 39:24
  you know
• 39:25
  I'm gonna
• 39:26
  okay
• 39:27
  let's do this
• 39:28
  because I want to move
• 39:29
  into different directions
• 39:30
  but before we do
• 39:30
  let me ask your opinion
• 39:31
  on Trump
• 39:33
  what's your thoughts
• 39:35
  I think Trump
• 39:38
  Trump is oddly
• 39:39
  one of the most
• 39:40
  consistent
• 39:41
  politicians
• 39:42
  we have ever had
• 39:44
  and if you go back
• 39:45
  and you look at that
• 39:45
  interview he did
• 39:46
  in his 30s
• 39:47
  and I never remember
• 39:48
  who the
• 39:49
  the woman was
• 39:50
  that interviewed him
• 39:51
  I always forget her name
• 39:52
  I want to say
• 39:53
  it was Ronna Barrett
• 39:54
  But he is somebody that everybody loved because he said really shocking stuff.
• 40:03
  And at the same time, people on all sides were asking him his entire life to consider running for office.
• 40:13
  It wasn't until he chose to come down the escalator and play the playbook that I guess he inevitably was always going to play, a la Roy Cohn,
• 40:22
  that he started pissing people off.
• 40:25
  But I think Trump is not a product of our culture.
• 40:32
  I think that we just caught up.
• 40:35
  I think we just caught up.
• 40:37
  I mean, he's consistent.
• 40:39
  I don't think we bred him.
• 40:41
  I think that he's always been there.
• 40:43
  He's been in rap songs.
• 40:46
  He's been in movies.
• 40:49
  He's iconic.
• 40:50
  and it was only until he got into politics
• 40:54
  and showed people how he would actually do things
• 40:57
  despite what he said all along,
• 40:59
  despite all the wild things he would say on the Stern show.
• 41:03
  And then people are like, well, wait a second.
• 41:05
  We don't actually think if this is the way you're going to lead
• 41:07
  that you should be a leader.
• 41:08
  Like it's buyer's remorse.
• 41:11
  It's buyer's remorse.
• 41:12
  Yeah, the way to put it.
• 41:14
  Yeah, he's not presidential.
• 41:18
  That's the thing about him.
• 41:19
  He's not.
• 41:19
  But he's hilarious.
• 41:21
  Absolutely.
• 41:22
  I mean, I like that he has no filter, but at the same time, it gets him into trouble for sure.
• 41:29
  And who the hell talks to world leaders the way he does?
• 41:32
  By the way, hilarious doesn't mean I like him.
• 41:35
  I can objectively say somebody's hilarious, right?
• 41:38
  But we live in a world where that will be taken as an endorsement.
• 41:43
  Well, yeah, that's true.
• 41:44
  You don't have to like them.
• 41:46
  It's fine.
• 41:46
  I mean, we all don't have to agree on candidates and who we back or whatever it is.
• 41:50
  I mean, look, there's a lot of people who voted for him that are now looking at the fact that,
• 41:55
  you know, there's a lot of promises that he made that he's not coming through.
• 41:58
  A lot of things he did were fine.
• 42:00
  A lot of things were great.
• 42:01
  But there's always the real argument here has always been we never had a perfect president.
• 42:06
  The problem with this guy, you know, even though he's human like all of them, is he has no damn filter.
• 42:12
  I mean, who the hell airs their grievances out on social media?
• 42:15
  you're the fucking president you're the president man a drug addict you know what i'm saying it's
• 42:21
  like what are you doing yeah no it's but that's what i'm saying it's hilarious but it's also scary
• 42:26
  at the same time right like i i can laugh at it but then also be like this is this is absolutely
• 42:32
  terrible we're all gonna die right but how do you not laugh you know i mean what else what's
• 42:36
  gonna do cry what what is the reaction what is the reaction look i i think there's a lot of things
• 42:43
  that Trump has done
• 42:45
  that if the messenger
• 42:46
  was different,
• 42:47
  he would have been applauded.
• 42:49
  True.
• 42:49
  Because he's Trump,
• 42:51
  it's bad branding.
• 42:54
  Right.
• 42:55
  You know,
• 42:55
  or maybe it's not
• 42:56
  because he won.
• 42:57
  So,
• 42:57
  but at least to the opposition,
• 42:59
  right?
• 42:59
  I mean,
• 42:59
  there's a lot of people
• 43:00
  that just won't,
• 43:01
  that will openly
• 43:02
  not give this man credit
• 43:03
  for anything
• 43:04
  because they despise him.
• 43:05
  I don't despise him
• 43:06
  at that level.
• 43:07
  I used to watch
• 43:07
  The Apprentice
• 43:08
  ad nauseum
• 43:09
  because I thought
• 43:10
  he was hugely entertaining.
• 43:12
  But I didn't,
• 43:13
  Even if I thought he could have been a good president, this version of him is not capable of being a good president.
• 43:20
  He's got moments where he's effective, but he is surrounded by some really dangerous people.
• 43:26
  I don't think he cares.
• 43:28
  No, he doesn't care because it's all about, again, self-interest.
• 43:30
  Yeah, it's self-interest.
• 43:32
  And honestly, this is his last term.
• 43:33
  He doesn't care.
• 43:35
  What comes next is far more dangerous and more concerning.
• 43:39
  A Peter Thiel-backed J.D. Vance presidency has the ability to do far more damage to this country than anything Trump's capable of doing because his brain can't move fast enough.
• 43:52
  the thing with vance is i i could see what you're saying and and why it would be dangerous to the
• 44:01
  to the degree that you're speaking or where you're coming from because vance is a polished
• 44:05
  person who knows how to present himself and knows how to speak well he's eloquent he's educated
• 44:10
  he's everything and trump is educated too but trump just doesn't care i you know he's always
• 44:16
  been rich and famous he's always been powerful so in his mind this was just another notch on his
• 44:20
  felt honestly you can tell he said in that interview in his 30s that he would only and
• 44:25
  because she asked him again i can i never get her name right but uh she asked him would you run and
• 44:32
  he said i would only ever run if i was broke because people would elect me because they'd
• 44:35
  feel sorry for him he is so honest in this interview in his 30s yeah i mean it's a version
• 44:40
  of him that we don't see and i watched this thing from like from end to end with my jaw on the ground
• 44:47
  because it was just so fascinating to hear how open he was.
• 44:51
  But Trump is a guy that is just smart enough
• 44:54
  to get away with a lot of things
• 44:58
  and just smart enough to keep the house of cards going.
• 45:02
  And a lot of that he learned from other people.
• 45:04
  Yeah. Do you think he's done anything good?
• 45:07
  Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 45:09
  I mean, even when he's doing bad,
• 45:11
  I think he's doing good
• 45:12
  because I think that you need the bad to breed the good.
• 45:16
  So I think that if Trump is showing the worst signs, the worst sides of what this country has to offer, that maybe it'll breed better leadership.
• 45:26
  And maybe this is rock bottom and we can actually get somewhere productive.
• 45:30
  But I don't think the Democrats have anything to offer towards that solution.
• 45:34
  No, they don't.
• 45:36
  We need a guy like you.
• 45:37
  What we need is a guy like you.
• 45:39
  Who is this girl who she just lost, but she was running with a discord and a tick tock?
• 45:44
  You know what I'm talking about?
• 45:46
  No.
• 45:46
  I wish I could remember her name right now.
• 45:48
  Our last name was Fox.
• 45:49
  I really don't recall.
• 45:51
  I should,
• 45:52
  right?
• 45:52
  Well,
• 45:53
  the primary was yesterday.
• 45:55
  The primary was yesterday.
• 45:56
  And,
• 45:57
  uh,
• 45:57
  I apologize for not remembering her name,
• 45:59
  her first name.
• 45:59
  I've literally been doing nothing but interviews and podcasts.
• 46:02
  So like,
• 46:02
  I'm kind of disconnected,
• 46:04
  even though,
• 46:05
  you know,
• 46:05
  I should know that since it's the nature of my,
• 46:07
  what I do,
• 46:08
  but yeah,
• 46:08
  I literally have been disconnected.
• 46:10
  I,
• 46:10
  I've just been having podcasts after podcasts,
• 46:13
  after guests.
• 46:14
  And I'm,
• 46:15
  I'm finding that I'm learning stuff from people I'm talking to in real time.
• 46:19
  I'm like, what?
• 46:19
  I don't know that I should.
• 46:21
  So yeah, I apologize.
• 46:22
  I don't.
• 46:24
  I really only got dialed into her in the last three days, to be fair, right?
• 46:28
  But she didn't win, but her campaign, she's an influencer, and she wound up using Discord.
• 46:37
  Interesting.
• 46:38
  And I think that's really the next generation.
• 46:41
  So I think that when you talk about rebooting and overhauling, it'll be a whole bunch of people that are doing direct-to-consumer politics that doesn't involve money, that just involves online organizing.
• 46:54
  I mean, could you just imagine if they got rid of all of the lobbyists and influence?
• 46:59
  You don't have to get rid of it.
• 47:00
  You just circumvent it.
• 47:02
  Why do we keep asking people for money?
• 47:05
  Just five more dollars.
• 47:06
  George, just listen.
• 47:08
  Help me out.
• 47:08
  Just five more dollars.
• 47:10
  We didn't make our goal, and we're still not going to make our goal, and I'm going to ask you again tomorrow, just five more dollars.
• 47:15
  Right.
• 47:16
  I'm like, how much more money do you freaking people need?
• 47:18
  You're running on the fact that people are barely getting by, so stop asking for money.
• 47:23
  So the way we take money out of politics is to just not allow money to rule our politics.
• 47:29
  Start electing people using social media.
• 47:31
  It's free.
• 47:33
  Well, yeah, but that's not the people's choice, really.
• 47:36
  That's up to the politician to do that.
• 47:37
  so
• 47:39
  but she's a disruptor and she's
• 47:42
  proof of what's to come because somebody
• 47:43
  will do it louder and harder than her and maybe
• 47:46
  it will be her next time but when
• 47:48
  it's that disruptive they won't be able
• 47:50
  to stop it yeah but it's
• 47:52
  also a big reason like
• 47:54
  it's not new though right that's that's a big
• 47:56
  part of why Trump got elected he did
• 47:58
  take advantage of social media
• 47:59
  you know he also had the money but
• 48:01
  he was also extremely popular in social
• 48:04
  media yeah but that's but
• 48:05
  but look I mean Trump
• 48:07
  They say he wasn't a politician.
• 48:09
  Trump was a politician.
• 48:10
  He was a businessman.
• 48:12
  He was a big-time donor.
• 48:14
  He may have been on the outside, but he was in that world.
• 48:18
  We're talking about young folks from the outside that aren't in it for money or power or book deals that are like,
• 48:26
  Hey, I got a job.
• 48:27
  Let me just come pass some legislation, get some stuff through, help the people, and go home and go back to work.
• 48:35
  Because that's the way it should be.
• 48:36
  Yeah, but I mean, that's the hope.
• 48:38
  I mean, you're talking about a unicorn, man.
• 48:39
  And honestly, everybody has that intent.
• 48:42
  There's okay.
• 48:43
  Not everybody, but a lot of people do have that intent.
• 48:44
  Most people who want to get into politics want to change and help.
• 48:48
  They're not necessarily getting into it because they know, unless they come up from a long
• 48:52
  line within a family that was already involved in politics.
• 48:55
  But most people from the outside, they don't know what they're getting into.
• 48:58
  I think the corruption just comes with a job.
• 49:02
  And it's almost like you got to pick and choose your battles and your poisons.
• 49:04
  I think most people start wanting to make a change, but once you get in there, it's, I mean, it's, it's a cesspool, man, you know, trying to ward all that stuff off, all the, all the influence, all the, all the money, all power, everything that comes with it.
• 49:19
  It's hard to stay the course.
• 49:21
  No, I get it, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.
• 49:24
  And I mean, you know, if you just look at innovation as a whole, it's never easy.
• 49:28
  but I so one of the guys I interviewed when I first started my podcast was a guy
• 49:33
  former mayor by the name of Keith Ramos in New Jersey small town he got involved in the politics
• 49:40
  because he got involved with politics because he went up to the current mayor at the time
• 49:44
  after a meeting after a public meeting and asked him some questions about how money was being
• 49:53
  allocated and the mayor turned to him and goes you don't ask me these kind of questions I'm the
• 49:57
  king of this town. And he's like, did you really just say that to me? And he ran and he beat this
• 50:05
  guy. And he was able, and I can't represent what he did eloquently enough to even try right now,
• 50:13
  but he made a difference in his town. And I said to him, what's next? Because you would think now
• 50:21
  you move on, right? You go a little bit higher up the ladder, but it comes back to just your point
• 50:25
  and it's a lot of work.
• 50:26
  And he doesn't know if his family is ready for it.
• 50:30
  Once you dip your toe into the bigger pool,
• 50:32
  you open yourself up to all sorts of exposure.
• 50:35
  And it's a big decision.
• 50:37
  But this is a guy,
• 50:38
  a working class guy from the outside,
• 50:42
  didn't like what a politician said to his face
• 50:44
  and took the reins.
• 50:46
  So it could be done.
• 50:48
  Oh, I know it could.
• 50:49
  And I'm not trying to be too negative about it.
• 50:51
  No, I'm not saying this for your benefit.
• 50:53
  I know you know these things.
• 50:54
  I'm saying for the people listening because it's the people listening that are going to run.
• 50:59
  It's quite okay to have an opinion.
• 51:02
  And it's also okay to be disenchanted about the whole situation as far as I feel because we all want better.
• 51:12
  We all want change.
• 51:13
  I don't disagree with what you said.
• 51:14
  Absolutely, you're correct.
• 51:16
  If there's a possibility, fine.
• 51:18
  But there's nothing new under the sun.
• 51:19
  Like you said, the lady that was using Discord, whatever.
• 51:22
  Look, all it is is the delivery.
• 51:24
  It's just the way you're communicating.
• 51:26
  But outside of that, you still have to present yourself as someone that the people want.
• 51:31
  You got to make people believe that you really, truly, in fact, you want to make a change and
• 51:35
  you're going to do it on behalf of the people.
• 51:38
  And so now it comes down to the reality.
• 51:40
  Who's the better salesperson?
• 51:42
  Regardless of what's in your heart, it's whoever the better salesperson is.
• 51:46
  The fact of the matter is politics is really nothing more than a high school popularity
• 51:52
  contest.
• 51:52
  There are so many inept people without qualifications that are voted into positions just because, oh, I know that name.
• 51:59
  They look on their ballot.
• 52:00
  Oh, yeah, I've heard that commercial.
• 52:02
  You don't even know anything about the guy.
• 52:03
  So you're absolutely right.
• 52:04
  Right, but that brings it right back to our earlier conversation about television because TV turned it into a popularity contest.
• 52:11
  Yes, it did.
• 52:12
  In the era of radio, you would be able to listen to the message, not be staring at the messenger.
• 52:18
  Right.
• 52:19
  But there's still influence in radio as well.
• 52:22
  Of course, but it was a huge shift to be able to now suddenly optics literally factored in.
• 52:31
  Are you talking about government psyops?
• 52:33
  no I'm just talking about the fact that as soon as you have television
• 52:37
  no I know but as soon as you have television the conversation
• 52:41
  oh look at him no you're right it's easier to manipulate with
• 52:45
  when you have the visual component you can always imagine what the person
• 52:49
  is you know you could drum up it's like reading a book right if you read a book
• 52:53
  like movies and books are the same thing really just one's the visual component
• 52:57
  but when you read the book you have a whole different idea of the character you have an entire
• 53:01
  different idea of what this world is this person lives in. And then when you see the movie, that's
• 53:04
  why you're disappointed. You're like, this is not what I read. This isn't what I drummed up in my
• 53:10
  mind that I was getting behind or what I loved. And so that visual component is needed to manipulate
• 53:17
  people. Absolutely. But with audio, if it was just an audio side, it's easy for the candidate to also
• 53:24
  hide behind as well. It's harder to make the connection. Some people are sad enough to tell
• 53:29
  when someone's lying.
• 53:30
  Like, you can just look at them
• 53:31
  and be like,
• 53:31
  this guy's, yeah,
• 53:32
  this guy's full of shit, right?
• 53:34
  You can tell at the gate.
• 53:36
  But, you know,
• 53:37
  you're not wrong.
• 53:37
  Yeah, the visual component,
• 53:39
  look, it's a big part of marketing.
• 53:40
  It's what it is.
• 53:41
  Everything we're talking about
• 53:42
  in campaigning
• 53:43
  is just marketing and sales.
• 53:44
  It doesn't matter
• 53:44
  what your stance is.
• 53:45
  It's how you can sell it.
• 53:47
  It really is.
• 53:48
  And if you know how to talk
• 53:49
  and you're eloquent,
• 53:50
  that's what people
• 53:51
  are going to eat up.
• 53:52
  You know, it's like
• 53:52
  the Obama administration
• 53:54
  is a big example of that.
• 53:58
  Everybody thinks
• 53:58
  he was the best ever.
• 54:00
  No, he wasn't.
• 54:00
  He was an amazing speaker.
• 54:02
  He knew how to talk.
• 54:03
  He knew how to present.
• 54:04
  So when he spoke, you had to pay attention.
• 54:06
  And everything he said, because of his timing, everything that he did and how he spoke, people
• 54:12
  just ate it up.
• 54:13
  But not everything he did was great.
• 54:16
  And I'm not here to bash him.
• 54:17
  I'm just using him as an example of somebody that can be a very polished, presentable person
• 54:23
  if you keep your tone the way you need to keep it.
• 54:27
  If you have a certain tone.
• 54:28
  if you have enough pause
• 54:30
  that allows people to sit there and think.
• 54:32
  I mean, look, it's an old trick.
• 54:33
  If I'm talking to you
• 54:34
  and I just paused for three seconds
• 54:35
  suddenly, I'm just going to shake my head.
• 54:37
  That's an old sales trick.
• 54:38
  I had a sales rep for him.
• 54:39
  I know how to do all this crap.
• 54:41
  And eventually,
• 54:42
  you're just going to say
• 54:42
  the first thing on your mind
• 54:43
  and you're either going to agree with me or not.
• 54:45
  But more than likely,
• 54:46
  you're going to start agreeing with me
• 54:47
  because you don't want to have
• 54:48
  that awkward moment.
• 54:51
  Yeah.
• 54:51
  No, and the thing with Obama,
• 54:54
  I mean, you're talking about,
• 54:55
  that's not just Obama.
• 54:56
  I mean, look, Obama's first term, I think he came out strong.
• 55:01
  I think his second term was all lame duck.
• 55:04
  Obama had great speech writers, and he was a strong orator.
• 55:10
  So when that guy can get up there and play the teleprompter like he's Hendrix, then yeah, it's going to work.
• 55:18
  Now, some people will say Trump is not a good messenger, but you could argue he's a very effective messenger for all the wrong reasons.
• 55:26
  so it just depends i mean part of it has to come with the tone of the country right i think that
• 55:34
  again we caught up to somebody like trump or enough people did where they're like okay well
• 55:39
  we identify with that as real talk we'll take it we don't want to be spoken down to yeah i i think
• 55:45
  i think what it was is uh i think a lot of people felt he was saying what people what they always
• 55:49
  wanted to say themselves and he always has yeah and they saw someone who wasn't ones that mincing
• 55:55
  words, wasn't holding back like, oh shit.
• 55:57
  Now that's my guy.
• 55:59
  And that was the appeal. That really was
• 56:01
  the appeal. And yes, he
• 56:03
  is a politician, but look, we're
• 56:05
  not going to fix this, Royce. We're not.
• 56:07
  I like having this conversation because I like
• 56:09
  having, you know,
• 56:10
  I like having other people's perspective
• 56:13
  and what they think of the situation.
• 56:16
  I don't know where we're going with this.
• 56:17
  I don't know what's next. I mean, honestly,
• 56:19
  I wish a
• 56:21
  president who was elected
• 56:22
  can just
• 56:24
  throw away the party politics.
• 56:27
  I'm tired of everything being so politicized.
• 56:30
  I want the president to actually look out for America and look out for the people.
• 56:33
  It doesn't matter whether or not the Republican Party is getting points or the Democratic
• 56:37
  Party is getting points.
• 56:38
  I think at that point when you become president, you should be neutral.
• 56:40
  You should be centered.
• 56:42
  That's what you should be because you got to work with both sides to get anything done.
• 56:47
  I don't know when that's going to change, but man, we need that so badly.
• 56:51
  We really do.
• 56:51
  I agree.
• 56:52
  I don't know how we get back to that.
• 56:53
  And again, maybe this is rock bottom and there's nowhere to go but up.
• 56:57
  If it's not rock bottom, then we have, unfortunately, a long way to go.
• 57:03
  Agreed.
• 57:03
  So let's talk about media because you kind of alluded to that earlier when you were talking about podcasters and basically everybody having this circle of friends, right?
• 57:12
  You always see the same guys all over the place.
• 57:15
  They're all stroking each other's egos and patting each other on the back.
• 57:18
  I can drop names because you got the Dave Smiths with the Tucker Carlson's and the Rogan's.
• 57:25
  Now you have Gerald Cooper, the martyr-made guy.
• 57:30
  It's like no matter what happens, even with Piers Morgan, no matter what anybody says,
• 57:33
  it seems like this whole team just jumps to their aid and goes, yeah, you're the man.
• 57:37
  And you also got Dave Smith thinking he wins every damn argument there is in debate,
• 57:40
  regardless of what he says or what his takes are.
• 57:42
  so
• 57:44
  you know
• 57:45
  the problem I see with that
• 57:48
  is it's a blatant
• 57:49
  to me and I don't know if everybody does this intentional
• 57:52
  but for example let's just
• 57:54
  talk about you don't have to but I will
• 57:56
  let's just talk about like Daryl Cooper for example
• 57:58
  I think he's an intelligent guy
• 57:59
  he denies he's a historian but then he says he is
• 58:02
  one if someone calls him a historian all of a sudden
• 58:04
  he is one if he gets called on his shit
• 58:06
  then all of a sudden he's not
• 58:07
  he makes comments right
• 58:09
  all of a sudden Hitler wasn't such a bad guy
• 58:11
  you know he was okay he was just misunderstood i i don't understand what it is about this revisionist
• 58:18
  history bullshit that we're going through right now um and the reality is we could all look back
• 58:24
  100 years 50 years even and always say you know we should have done it this way they were wrong
• 58:30
  there's a big difference of living through the time period versus scrutinizing what has been done
• 58:34
  before you were born so what are your thoughts on on this to me it just seems like this big circle
• 58:41
  of friends are just patting each other on the bat. They're pushing each other's narratives.
• 58:45
  And it's like they're ganging up to keep control of media because podcasting is media. Podcasting
• 58:51
  is a big business. And there's many people who want to think that it isn't. I hate to break it
• 58:56
  to you, but it's an industry. What's your thoughts on what's happening lately with this movement,
• 59:02
  with these podcasters who just seem to be doing nothing but making sure that they're the first and
• 59:07
  only voice heard and anybody who has an objection is suddenly a deranged idiot that doesn't have
• 59:14
  their facts straight well the first thing i think of is uh like an ian carroll okay yeah and because
• 59:20
  when you talk about the holocaust and hitler and all of these i shouldn't say all but a lot of these
• 59:26
  folks, they practice a, how can I say this? They practice a faux intellectual curiosity.
• 59:38
  Okay. So it becomes okay to ask questions in their mind. All right. And in the guise of,
• 59:48
  well, we don't know this and we don't know that. And it becomes this fake intellectual curiosity,
• 59:53
  but it's very, very dangerous.
• 59:56
  And they love to do that when it comes to the Holocaust
• 59:59
  and anti-Semitism, okay?
• 1:00:02
  I think from the independent content creator
• 1:00:08
  journalist perspective,
• 1:00:09
  I don't think there's much of a thing
• 1:00:12
  as an independent content creator.
• 1:00:14
  If you go look at most of these folks,
• 1:00:16
  the big ones, not all, a lot of them,
• 1:00:21
  they trace back to Nightco.
• 1:00:23
  okay they trace back to churnin peter churnin's churnin group which is backed by qatari money
• 1:00:31
  the qia okay churnin has investment the churnin group has investments in spotify which obviously
• 1:00:38
  has a deal with rogan they're invested in nightco which manages kai senate and hassan i believe
• 1:00:45
  and and the costco guys so when you see all these independent creators whether we're talking
• 1:00:52
  politics, we're just talking creators, they're generally being funded and managed by only
• 1:00:58
  a handful of people.
• 1:00:59
  So they have the illusion of independent.
• 1:01:02
  Go down that rabbit hole of Nightco.
• 1:01:03
  I think it was his name, Reed Drusher.
• 1:01:05
  Go down that rabbit hole of Nightco and Churning Group, and you see how much of that money
• 1:01:10
  is all those independent companies funnel back to that money.
• 1:01:16
  So you think it's just being controlled by just a small handful of people?
• 1:01:20
  Like, here's the personality.
• 1:01:22
  We can get behind this guy.
• 1:01:24
  And now once they got him to a certain level, they're just controlling the narrative.
• 1:01:28
  No, I don't think it's that thought out.
• 1:01:29
  I think it's more like, no, I really don't.
• 1:01:32
  I think it's more like this is business.
• 1:01:34
  And we don't really give a shit what people are saying on either side, as long as they're keeping things murky and people arguing.
• 1:01:40
  Right.
• 1:01:41
  Okay.
• 1:01:42
  Because at the top, none of this exists.
• 1:01:45
  They're all all these politicians on both sides of the aisle are doing blow and shots on K Street together. Okay, to go back to Gavin Newsom, Gavin Newsom's ex-wife was dating Donald Jr. Trump Jr. Yeah. Okay, it's all everybody's everybody's hanging out. Okay. So at a certain level, they're all they're all in their in their 1% club. All right. And we're stuck playing this, this game of party politics or identity.
• 1:02:15
  politics or whatever you want to call it.
• 1:02:18
  And I just think that we're blinded by that because at the end of the day, are there people
• 1:02:27
  out there trying to do an independent thing?
• 1:02:28
  Yes.
• 1:02:29
  I don't think that the controlled independent media is necessarily being handed a narrative.
• 1:02:37
  But I think when the people at the top are making money off of whatever they're saying,
• 1:02:43
  they don't give a shit what they're saying.
• 1:02:45
  Because ultimately they get the final word
• 1:02:47
  because they control the purse strings.
• 1:02:49
  Yeah, but these guys are also extremely disingenuous.
• 1:02:53
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:02:54
  Because Sean Ryan, for example,
• 1:02:56
  I remember watching one of his appearances on Tucker,
• 1:03:02
  for example, the whole time.
• 1:03:04
  I'm not in it for the money.
• 1:03:05
  I hate the money.
• 1:03:06
  I'll never do it.
• 1:03:07
  And on the other hand,
• 1:03:08
  oh, I'm building this multimillion dollar studio.
• 1:03:11
  Well, which is it?
• 1:03:12
  You want to do it or you don't want to do it?
• 1:03:14
  you're in it for the money or not.
• 1:03:15
  If you didn't care,
• 1:03:16
  why are you putting so much investment
• 1:03:18
  of your time and money into this thing?
• 1:03:21
  Like, it doesn't make any sense.
• 1:03:23
  Yeah, there's a lot of people
• 1:03:24
  that come to mind that I know,
• 1:03:26
  you're just in this for money.
• 1:03:28
  Because if you all got together
• 1:03:29
  and actually wanted to affect something,
• 1:03:31
  you could,
• 1:03:32
  but you don't want to erode your revenue.
• 1:03:35
  There's some people out there I like,
• 1:03:36
  but there's some that I can think of
• 1:03:38
  and I don't want to get in the pointing fingers
• 1:03:40
  because some of these people,
• 1:03:42
  I kind of have,
• 1:03:44
  dealt with in the past.
• 1:03:45
  So I don't feel like
• 1:03:46
  blowing that up yet.
• 1:03:48
  Yet.
• 1:03:49
  But there's some organizations
• 1:03:51
  out there
• 1:03:51
  that went from
• 1:03:53
  anti-Trump
• 1:03:54
  to
• 1:03:56
  fundraising off of that
• 1:03:58
  to now we're a media company
• 1:04:00
  and we're no longer a pack.
• 1:04:03
  And you're like,
• 1:04:03
  oh, so this whole thing
• 1:04:05
  was just a scheme
• 1:04:07
  to launch a media enterprise.
• 1:04:09
  And now
• 1:04:09
  all you did was fundraise
• 1:04:11
  to prop up your
• 1:04:14
  quote-unquote independent media outlet.
• 1:04:16
  And now you're out there continuing that grift.
• 1:04:19
  Yeah.
• 1:04:20
  Well, the grift is real.
• 1:04:22
  Listen, I've been accused of grifting.
• 1:04:24
  I'm a live streamer from TikTok.
• 1:04:25
  That's all I've been accused of is grifting.
• 1:04:27
  It's okay.
• 1:04:28
  And it's not for me to get you to talk badly about anyone in particular.
• 1:04:33
  But I don't have a problem calling out people.
• 1:04:36
  I never have.
• 1:04:37
  I can care less.
• 1:04:38
  Because the reality is somebody has to.
• 1:04:41
  And there's people out there.
• 1:04:42
  they say stuff about me too.
• 1:04:44
  Like, who cares?
• 1:04:45
  You know, at some point,
• 1:04:46
  you got to be able to stand for truth
• 1:04:49
  if you can,
• 1:04:49
  or the truth we know anyway.
• 1:04:51
  Because again, you know,
• 1:04:52
  it's like, like I said,
• 1:04:53
  everything that we know
• 1:04:54
  in our assessments and our opinions
• 1:04:55
  are only as good as the information we get.
• 1:04:57
  Period.
• 1:04:58
  You know, and I've always said,
• 1:04:59
  we're right today, wrong tomorrow.
• 1:05:01
  Always happens You never going to be in Yeah You never going to be out It part of information Yeah So but when I when I see when I see what you just mentioned the grift for example
• 1:05:11
  when I see someone like, and I'll just keep drumming it because I can care less about what
• 1:05:15
  this guy thinks, but let's say like a Dave Smith and it's not because I hate him.
• 1:05:18
  I don't, I actually, I respected his intelligence.
• 1:05:20
  I thought he was great when he first came out, but now you can clearly see it's like,
• 1:05:24
  he's just kind of just going with what works.
• 1:05:28
  you know it's it's always the same argument the same thing we don't have to stay on him i just
• 1:05:35
  use him as example no but i don't really know much about him i know the name but let me ask you this
• 1:05:39
  no i'm just using it as example yeah but let me ask you as a from the from the perspective of
• 1:05:42
  grifting yeah isn't it really all about perceived value and i can argue both sides of this but
• 1:05:49
  isn't it really about like how how many people pay for netflix and do nothing but scroll the menu
• 1:05:54
  You look at 40 things and you're like, I think I'll watch nothing.
• 1:05:58
  I'll just go to bed.
• 1:05:59
  So is that a grift?
• 1:06:02
  I mean, if you pay it and never use it, is it a grift?
• 1:06:04
  So I think that if people are grabbing their information from a Joe Walsh, okay, and he's
• 1:06:14
  becoming their news source, then is it so wrong that they choose to subscribe to him
• 1:06:21
  and help bankroll him?
• 1:06:22
  I think the problem I have is that there's such an oversaturation of this stuff that people just get further siloed.
• 1:06:30
  Well, so I say what a grift is, my opinion, in the way I see it and understand it, is when someone is literally disingenuous, okay, there's someone who doesn't necessarily believe in all the bullshit that they're spewing.
• 1:06:46
  But they said something, they presented something that got them the attention.
• 1:06:50
  now they know what works and now they just keep spitting out and spewing the same old
• 1:06:56
  crap over and over because they know that that formula is going to get them the eyeballs those
• 1:07:01
  are grifters in the most literal sense yes yeah so that that's my take on it i don't care that
• 1:07:08
  you're you're a logical guy you're i mean the the internet trolls they consider what we're doing
• 1:07:14
  right now oh yeah i i get what you're saying yeah i understand but but i don't i don't have i don't
• 1:07:19
  I don't care that someone makes money.
• 1:07:21
  I mean,
• 1:07:21
  why should you not be able to earn a living doing what you like?
• 1:07:25
  I,
• 1:07:25
  I,
• 1:07:26
  I'm not against that whatsoever.
• 1:07:27
  I was,
• 1:07:28
  what I meant by grift is exactly what I said,
• 1:07:31
  or just,
• 1:07:31
  just now in how I defined it.
• 1:07:33
  It's,
• 1:07:34
  it's like,
• 1:07:35
  look,
• 1:07:35
  dude,
• 1:07:35
  you know,
• 1:07:36
  you don't really believe in what you're saying because just three years ago,
• 1:07:40
  just three years ago,
• 1:07:41
  and I'm going to say names.
• 1:07:42
  We'll just hypothetically.
• 1:07:44
  You said Trump was,
• 1:07:45
  was an asshole.
• 1:07:47
  Now you're licking his boots.
• 1:07:48
  that's a grifter because now licking Trump's boots is what gets him paid.
• 1:07:53
  Okay.
• 1:07:53
  I get you got to pay bills,
• 1:07:55
  but the reasons you're doing it,
• 1:07:56
  I'm sorry,
• 1:07:57
  you are being disingenuous.
• 1:07:59
  You are grifting.
• 1:07:59
  And that's what a grifter is.
• 1:08:00
  And so that's what I'm talking about.
• 1:08:02
  I don't,
• 1:08:02
  I'm not talking about J.D.
• 1:08:04
  Vance a grifter.
• 1:08:07
  He,
• 1:08:07
  you know what?
• 1:08:08
  I think he is definitely,
• 1:08:10
  um,
• 1:08:11
  I definitely think he's biding his time.
• 1:08:13
  I think he is probably to be honest,
• 1:08:16
  if I had to say it,
• 1:08:16
  yeah,
• 1:08:17
  I think he is kind of a grifter.
• 1:08:18
  He is someone who jumped on the ticket.
• 1:08:21
  I think he's using Trump to get where he needs to go,
• 1:08:23
  but I don't know if he believes in everything that Trump does whatsoever.
• 1:08:27
  I really don't.
• 1:08:29
  I think,
• 1:08:29
  I think Vance is the cleanup guy.
• 1:08:31
  Cause you were like describing all that.
• 1:08:33
  And I'm like,
• 1:08:33
  you are painting the picture of JD Vance.
• 1:08:37
  That's,
• 1:08:38
  that's what I,
• 1:08:38
  that's what I see.
• 1:08:39
  That's just what I see.
• 1:08:40
  I,
• 1:08:41
  yeah,
• 1:08:41
  I agree with you wholeheartedly.
• 1:08:42
  He's intelligent.
• 1:08:43
  He is,
• 1:08:43
  he is,
• 1:08:44
  he's very intelligent,
• 1:08:45
  but I don't,
• 1:08:45
  I don't believe he's bought in.
• 1:08:46
  I just don't.
• 1:08:48
  I think that it's the same thing with Marco Rubio.
• 1:08:53
  Yeah, I can see that.
• 1:08:55
  Definitely.
• 1:08:55
  These guys are in it for their career advancement.
• 1:08:58
  Unlike a guy like Pete Hegseth, who is in it because,
• 1:09:02
  how do I turn down this opportunity?
• 1:09:04
  Of course, I'm going to take it.
• 1:09:05
  And then he gets it and he goes, this is a lot of work.
• 1:09:08
  I think I'll have a drink.
• 1:09:10
  Right.
• 1:09:11
  You know?
• 1:09:13
  Did you see the video of him with the drone delivering up the document?
• 1:09:18
  Yeah.
• 1:09:19
  What are we doing?
• 1:09:20
  It's funny.
• 1:09:21
  Even your videos sucked.
• 1:09:23
  Like you said, you have to laugh.
• 1:09:24
  Yeah, but first of all, there's nothing impressive about a drone carrying a payload of one sheet of paper.
• 1:09:33
  No.
• 1:09:34
  What it should have been is a document gorilla taped to a concrete block, okay?
• 1:09:42
  And the drone flies in a concrete block.
• 1:09:44
  Yeah, there you go.
• 1:09:45
  And it takes the paper off the block.
• 1:09:46
  but there's nothing impressive about a drone flying in a piece of paper that doesn't say
• 1:09:51
  masculinity that's his small penis that's like that makes me think of andrew tate when i think
• 1:09:57
  of small penis i think of andrew tate i don't even get a start on that guy well i'm trying to
• 1:10:02
  because i can't stand them listen i wish remember pay-per-view in the 90s i would love to get in the
• 1:10:07
  ring with that guy i don't care if i lose i just want to punch him in the face right i you know
• 1:10:13
  hey, he brought him up. Let's talk about Tate.
• 1:10:16
  I'm going to let you start
• 1:10:17
  because you obviously have a lot to say.
• 1:10:20
  I just think he's got a small penis.
• 1:10:21
  And look, the only reason I can say this
• 1:10:23
  is because he's jumping around in that little
• 1:10:25
  bikini all the time. I'm not asking to see
• 1:10:27
  these photos. He's putting them out there.
• 1:10:30
  I'm like, there's nothing about you that
• 1:10:31
  says man. You are like an AI
• 1:10:33
  generated version of masculinity.
• 1:10:37
  I can
• 1:10:37
  agree with that. I think the guy
• 1:10:39
  is just a scammer.
• 1:10:41
  Literally.
• 1:10:42
  Well, he's a grifter.
• 1:10:43
  I mean, come on.
• 1:10:44
  His online university.
• 1:10:47
  Have you ever looked at that crap?
• 1:10:50
  Only to the extent that I know it exists.
• 1:10:52
  But no, I haven't signed up if that's what you're asking.
• 1:10:53
  No, no, no, no.
• 1:10:54
  I wasn't asking that.
• 1:10:56
  I'm not sure where you go.
• 1:10:57
  No, but look.
• 1:10:58
  He has these stupid courses on how you can make money.
• 1:11:02
  I got an idea.
• 1:11:02
  Webcam girls and all that shit.
• 1:11:04
  A paper route.
• 1:11:05
  You're doing it wrong.
• 1:11:06
  Shit like that.
• 1:11:07
  I know I'm being facetious, but just saying it's like it's that bad.
• 1:11:11
  And people buy into this crap.
• 1:11:14
  And they see him-
• 1:11:14
  Listen, I would have,
• 1:11:15
  you wouldn't do the webcam business?
• 1:11:17
  You got like eight girls to do webcams
• 1:11:19
  and you sit around and drive a nice car
• 1:11:21
  and sit in a bikini,
• 1:11:23
  drinking whatever he's drinking?
• 1:11:24
  That's the life.
• 1:11:26
  Well, yeah.
• 1:11:27
  Imagine being that insecure
• 1:11:28
  that that's what you have to do.
• 1:11:30
  The problem is he is presenting that
• 1:11:33
  as the life that a man should have.
• 1:11:35
  I mean, if that's your thing, great.
• 1:11:37
  That's you.
• 1:11:37
  I was joking, obviously.
• 1:11:39
  No, I know you were.
• 1:11:40
  I know, but there's always that one out there who's like, oh, wow, he's really into it.
• 1:11:45
  I think it's just so ridiculous that these younger men are buying into this.
• 1:11:50
  If he is the beacon of manhood, we're in trouble.
• 1:11:54
  I'm sorry.
• 1:11:56
  There's nothing masculine, as you said, about him.
• 1:11:58
  He is absolutely grifting.
• 1:11:59
  He's just really manipulating and molding young people's minds to believe that if you act like me, you treat women badly,
• 1:12:06
  and you make bad investments,
• 1:12:08
  that you're going to be a great person.
• 1:12:10
  You're going to be a successful individual.
• 1:12:13
  Everything he's doing is just,
• 1:12:14
  look, it's a house of cards, man.
• 1:12:16
  He's just weak.
• 1:12:17
  He's a weak person.
• 1:12:18
  He is weak.
• 1:12:19
  And sure, when he gets mad enough,
• 1:12:21
  all of a sudden he's like,
• 1:12:21
  oh, let's get in the ring.
• 1:12:23
  Like, bro, listen, that ship sailed.
• 1:12:26
  Sure, you're probably still in shape.
• 1:12:26
  That's when his lisp starts flying.
• 1:12:28
  Yeah.
• 1:12:29
  And I can only make fun of that
• 1:12:30
  because I had a lisp as a kid.
• 1:12:31
  So don't come for me because I overcame it.
• 1:12:34
  He didn't.
• 1:12:35
  And then he gets really upset and he's like,
• 1:12:37
  I'll get in the ring with you.
• 1:12:39
  I'll beat you up.
• 1:12:41
  Yeah, all of a sudden his British comes out.
• 1:12:42
  Yeah.
• 1:12:43
  You know what he looks like?
• 1:12:44
  He looks like if Bam Bam from the Flintstones grew up,
• 1:12:50
  but never saw a therapist.
• 1:12:52
  You know what I mean?
• 1:12:53
  Because he's like Bam Bam.
• 1:12:56
  Now I can't get that out of my head.
• 1:12:58
  Yeah, give him a giant drum sticker or something,
• 1:13:01
  a chicken wing, and put him in one of those.
• 1:13:05
  the things and he looks Cro-Magnon.
• 1:13:07
  Or Bonk's Adventure
• 1:13:09
  from TurboGrafx. Remember Bonk's Adventure?
• 1:13:11
  Yes, absolutely.
• 1:13:13
  I remember that. Shit, you're going back.
• 1:13:15
  Hey, what
• 1:13:17
  are your thoughts? I have thoughts.
• 1:13:19
  We're probably very much on the same page with this
• 1:13:21
  guy.
• 1:13:23
  What were your thoughts about
• 1:13:24
  these conservative
• 1:13:27
  podcasters that got behind this guy and platformed
• 1:13:29
  him and gave him the ability to do
• 1:13:31
  this podcast tour? Why is
• 1:13:33
  Patrick David having someone like him?
• 1:13:35
  you know, that made no sense to me.
• 1:13:37
  Like there, there, there, there, there was everybody.
• 1:13:40
  Yeah.
• 1:13:40
  Candace Owens behind him.
• 1:13:42
  Like she's gone off the deep end anyway, but I'm just saying that what, what, what was
• 1:13:46
  behind that in your mind?
• 1:13:47
  Like why?
• 1:13:48
  I mean, did they need the money that bad?
• 1:13:49
  They need the eyeballs that bad that they would lower their standards enough to platform
• 1:13:54
  this guy.
• 1:13:55
  It's all self-interest again.
• 1:13:57
  And Candace Owens' husband is like best friends with Andrew Tate.
• 1:14:01
  I heard that.
• 1:14:02
  So these, there's, there's real connections there.
• 1:14:04
  And I think sometimes you just do it to save face.
• 1:14:07
  And it's all about clout, right?
• 1:14:09
  It's all about clout, which is why people play the circles.
• 1:14:12
  You're talking a lot about folks on the conservative-leaning side.
• 1:14:18
  And I can think of a lot of people on the left-leaning side of things that do the same
• 1:14:24
  things.
• 1:14:24
  I mean, like Lev Parnas and Michael Cohen.
• 1:14:28
  How many times do these guys need to go live on a podcast and talk to the same 12 people?
• 1:14:33
  like how much more does michael cohen have to offer this world or is he just there to get his
• 1:14:38
  five bucks a month i don't know i don't know you know great point it really is it seems like the um
• 1:14:44
  the ability for since we're talking about podcasting now um the ability for anybody who has the hope
• 1:14:51
  and the dream to build something as an independent talk an independent podcaster it seems like the
• 1:14:58
  the window of opportunity,
• 1:14:59
  the doors are just being closed to you because in the beginning was the wild
• 1:15:03
  West.
• 1:15:04
  Like anybody could just get in there.
• 1:15:05
  Anybody can get in there and,
• 1:15:06
  and become,
• 1:15:07
  you know,
• 1:15:08
  some,
• 1:15:09
  a bit of a success in terms of a following.
• 1:15:11
  Right.
• 1:15:11
  Right.
• 1:15:12
  In the beginning,
• 1:15:12
  there wasn't as many options,
• 1:15:13
  but now we're looking at,
• 1:15:14
  um,
• 1:15:15
  what was it?
• 1:15:15
  They said last report over 5 million podcasts out there.
• 1:15:19
  Now it doesn't mean all of them are active,
• 1:15:20
  but still you got a huge saturation of choices and who's going to be
• 1:15:24
  presented to you when you open your app.
• 1:15:26
  You know,
• 1:15:27
  they,
• 1:15:27
  and these,
• 1:15:28
  these apps are like,
• 1:15:29
  okay,
• 1:15:29
  like Apple,
• 1:15:31
  Spotify.
• 1:15:31
  Look,
• 1:15:31
  I've done enough in business to understand how it works.
• 1:15:35
  I've been in sales.
• 1:15:35
  I understand how this works.
• 1:15:36
  They deny that.
• 1:15:38
  No,
• 1:15:38
  no,
• 1:15:38
  no,
• 1:15:38
  we don't take money.
• 1:15:39
  There's no such thing.
• 1:15:40
  These people all play the game.
• 1:15:41
  Bullshit.
• 1:15:42
  You guys are all lying.
• 1:15:43
  They all got big pockets behind them.
• 1:15:45
  The only reason that every time you open Apple,
• 1:15:47
  for example,
• 1:15:48
  and you see,
• 1:15:48
  let's say odd save America is because there's enough money to keep them on the front page.
• 1:15:54
  It's not because of their damn downloads,
• 1:15:55
  man.
• 1:15:56
  Look,
• 1:15:57
  there was,
• 1:15:57
  there was a time I was in the top 100 in politics on Apple and most people
• 1:16:00
  probably even know who I am.
• 1:16:03
  You didn't see me on every,
• 1:16:04
  every,
• 1:16:05
  um,
• 1:16:05
  Apple splash page,
• 1:16:06
  right?
• 1:16:07
  When you open it,
• 1:16:07
  no,
• 1:16:07
  you didn't.
• 1:16:08
  So it's,
• 1:16:09
  it's a bunch of lies and manipulation and bullshit.
• 1:16:12
  And it's unfortunate that you have voices out there.
• 1:16:14
  Like I personally,
• 1:16:15
  Royce,
• 1:16:16
  I don't know what you do,
• 1:16:16
  but I don't even listen to a lot of the big guys anymore.
• 1:16:18
  Unless there's like a certain interview I want to hear.
• 1:16:21
  I support a lot of independence.
• 1:16:22
  I really do.
• 1:16:22
  Cause there's a lot of good quality independent podcasters out there who are
• 1:16:26
  going to do the work. They're going to do the deep dive. They have other jobs and in their spare
• 1:16:30
  time, they are really putting their all into this. And I respect those people. I'm one of those
• 1:16:36
  people, period. I am. This isn't where I make my money. I make my money elsewhere, but I love doing
• 1:16:43
  this and I felt that I had a voice. So I said, hey, let me go ahead and do what I can. And on
• 1:16:48
  some episodes, man, I sound like an encyclopedia because I will dig that deep. I get hyper-focused.
• 1:16:54
  So I think that the window of opportunity, unfortunately, is getting narrower.
• 1:17:00
  And it's very sad to see that this has become an industry.
• 1:17:02
  I have a person I know that has been podcasting for a very long time.
• 1:17:06
  And he knows some people that are in the industry that are pretty well-known people.
• 1:17:10
  And he still wants to hold on to the fact.
• 1:17:12
  He looks at it as, it's just like bands.
• 1:17:15
  It's just like being in a band and all of this.
• 1:17:18
  It's not an industry.
• 1:17:19
  It's punk rock.
• 1:17:19
  No, I'm sorry.
• 1:17:20
  It's not anymore.
• 1:17:21
  And that's unfortunately, I wish it wasn't.
• 1:17:23
  That was not the truth, but it is.
• 1:17:26
  It really is.
• 1:17:27
  So how does, because you've been doing this for a long time, how does someone become successful?
• 1:17:32
  And that can be many things.
• 1:17:33
  It doesn't necessarily mean rich, but how would you be able to be able to get your voice heard
• 1:17:38
  and also be able to do this for a living to where, you know, maybe you make enough to keep it going, for example.
• 1:17:45
  How does someone do that?
• 1:17:46
  I mean, I had for post-pandemic, I made a living live streaming on TikTok.
• 1:17:54
  And you could look at the metrics on TikTok and my success on TikTok and think that it was really, really impressive.
• 1:18:00
  But as soon as you took it out of that ecosystem it didn scale It didn carry over into other platforms I have decided to break it in pursuit of growing further much along the same thought process of what you asking
• 1:18:19
  because it comes down to if you're really going to do this and if you've done it long enough
• 1:18:25
  that you're now in it. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, I didn't expect to still be here and now
• 1:18:30
  I'm here. So now what's next? I can't do this forever. So that's the evolution, right? And if
• 1:18:36
  you're going to stick with it, the most... Look, I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I just...
• 1:18:42
  You're going to get all of me, okay? There was a time when you wouldn't. You're going to get all
• 1:18:47
  of me. And if I lose followers, so be it. But I'm hoping that I have 500 really, really passionate
• 1:18:55
  people that are interested about anything that I have going on so that they can help lift up
• 1:19:01
  anything that I have going on. And I think that that's the long-term proposition. I have 650,000
• 1:19:08
  followers on TikTok, but if I go live, there might only be 200 people watching any given
• 1:19:14
  phone. It's all bullshit. So then I go over to my sub stack and my core people are there.
• 1:19:21
  And those are the people that are on my Twitch and my YouTube.
• 1:19:23
  They're everywhere.
• 1:19:24
  So I think that part of it has to be, as weird as this sounds, it has to be not focusing on the money.
• 1:19:31
  That's short-term.
• 1:19:33
  You have to go long-term and build something that provides value for people.
• 1:19:38
  When I'm not live, people want me to go live.
• 1:19:40
  I mean, I used to provide a very specific type of stream.
• 1:19:44
  but now the people that I have
• 1:19:46
  gotten rid of and the people that I have
• 1:19:48
  kind of whittled it down to
• 1:19:50
  they'll just watch me sit here
• 1:19:52
  and do like
• 1:19:54
  what I'll call office hours
• 1:19:56
  where I'm like guys I just got to go through notes and clean off
• 1:19:58
  my desk but I haven't been live today
• 1:20:00
  and
• 1:20:01
  if I went to the parks where
• 1:20:04
  I used to stream and I
• 1:20:06
  played the game
• 1:20:08
  I could make hundreds of dollars
• 1:20:10
  but I got to work the leaderboards
• 1:20:13
  and work the gifting and do the whole thing.
• 1:20:15
  So that's short-term money, which is nice.
• 1:20:18
  Yeah, it's not long-term.
• 1:20:19
  It's not sustainable.
• 1:20:20
  Correct.
• 1:20:21
  So now it's more valuable to be like,
• 1:20:23
  guys, I didn't make it to the park today,
• 1:20:25
  but let me show you what I've been working on.
• 1:20:28
  So now they're on the ride with you.
• 1:20:31
  And it's a lot more work to do it that way.
• 1:20:35
  And a lot of people said,
• 1:20:36
  just stick to doing the dumb shit.
• 1:20:38
  Just stick to...
• 1:20:38
  And I'm like,
• 1:20:39
  I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing that.
• 1:20:41
  So to answer your question,
• 1:20:43
  is how do you make a...
• 1:20:44
  It's not about getting tons of views.
• 1:20:49
  It's about speaking to the people that are listening.
• 1:20:52
  It's not speaking down to them,
• 1:20:54
  it's speaking to them,
• 1:20:56
  speaking with them.
• 1:20:57
  So I think that
• 1:20:58
  if you can find a way to sustain that,
• 1:21:03
  then maybe you break through.
• 1:21:05
  I got to tell you,
• 1:21:05
  sometimes,
• 1:21:06
  and you were describing this at the top of the show,
• 1:21:08
  about hitting that benchmark
• 1:21:11
  and then having all that.
• 1:21:12
  And I'm like, it doesn't even sound appealing at this age.
• 1:21:15
  I've had a slice of it on TikTok.
• 1:21:18
  It's not appealing.
• 1:21:19
  I'm not doing what I'm doing these days for views.
• 1:21:22
  I'm doing it to keep that core audience going on these new endeavors.
• 1:21:29
  I could give a shit.
• 1:21:31
  I mean, if somebody comes in and gives me a hard time, I'm like, just don't fucking watch me.
• 1:21:36
  I don't care anymore.
• 1:21:37
  No one's forcing you, right?
• 1:21:38
  but but but you know like oh when why weren't you in the park the other day well i was oh i missed
• 1:21:43
  it well who the why the fuck are you asking me right like like if you come into my live i go
• 1:21:48
  where were you i was working why the fuck were you working why weren't you watching my live asshole
• 1:21:52
  like it's it sounds pretty ridiculous when you flip the script absolutely i so i hope i answered
• 1:21:58
  your question i know i just ranted a lot well no no no no that's all it's all valid information
• 1:22:03
  These are your experiences.
• 1:22:05
  I want to make it clear.
• 1:22:08
  I believe anybody in this space, for example, to me, be who you are.
• 1:22:14
  Don't put on a front.
• 1:22:16
  I hate nothing more than watching somebody who's a character.
• 1:22:20
  Now, unless you're specifically putting it out there that it's entertainment, fair enough.
• 1:22:25
  I know what I'm getting into.
• 1:22:26
  but you know if you're in the um news commentary space politics anything like that which is really
• 1:22:32
  hot right now don't don't don't be something you're not just don't be something you're not
• 1:22:37
  i i can't stand fake that's that's what i that's how you're going to break through but there's you
• 1:22:41
  still need to play into unfortunately you still have to play into the clickbait world
• 1:22:45
  yeah if you really want to i understand i don't like doing it and i'm on your side i agree with
• 1:22:50
  you i i'm against it as well but you know everything i was saying earlier really had to do with
• 1:22:55
  I see people get so
• 1:22:58
  bent out of shape and disheartened
• 1:23:00
  when they're like, they're inspired.
• 1:23:03
  And they're like, I'm going to do this too.
• 1:23:05
  And then they get into it and they feel like you said,
• 1:23:07
  they've got to reach a certain threshold.
• 1:23:09
  I need 10,000 downloads.
• 1:23:10
  I need 20,000.
• 1:23:11
  I need 100,000.
• 1:23:12
  And it's like, give a shit.
• 1:23:14
  You know, I like doing this more than I like doing my own podcast.
• 1:23:18
  You want to know why?
• 1:23:19
  Because when this is over, I'm going to go smoke a bowl
• 1:23:21
  and not have to edit shit.
• 1:23:23
  I'm not going to have to edit shit.
• 1:23:25
  You know what I mean? And I can curse over here.
• 1:23:28
  I don't have to care about losing
• 1:23:30
  a follower. It's your fucking problem.
• 1:23:32
  Yeah. Well, everybody
• 1:23:33
  listens to my damn show. They already know
• 1:23:36
  I got a filthy mouth, so it doesn't even matter.
• 1:23:38
  But my audience will hear this and be like,
• 1:23:39
  oh man, why doesn't he act this way on his podcast?
• 1:23:42
  Yeah. And you've got to listen more.
• 1:23:44
  I like having these conversations though, Royce.
• 1:23:46
  I like having the opportunity to have
• 1:23:48
  someone open up and just let go.
• 1:23:50
  I really do. I think there's more value
• 1:23:52
  in that I think you learn from somebody a lot more
• 1:23:55
  instead of trying to play the persona
• 1:23:57
  and try to stay within the guardrails.
• 1:24:00
  I mean, if you can't speak your mind,
• 1:24:01
  then we're not having a real conversation.
• 1:24:03
  We're just not.
• 1:24:04
  You should be able to express yourself.
• 1:24:06
  But then it also means you're doing it
• 1:24:07
  for the wrong reasons.
• 1:24:08
  And that goes back to the whole grifter thing.
• 1:24:11
  Because if you're there...
• 1:24:13
  So when I started...
• 1:24:14
  Not to bring it back to what I was doing on TikTok,
• 1:24:16
  but when I started doing what I was doing,
• 1:24:18
  I was front of trend.
• 1:24:19
  A lot of people started doing it
• 1:24:21
  because they saw what I was doing and I was doing it with success.
• 1:24:25
  I originally started doing it for my own mental health escape.
• 1:24:29
  And I think because I was just having fun and being me,
• 1:24:33
  that people latched onto it.
• 1:24:34
  But I maintained an air of professionalism.
• 1:24:37
  What has happened over the years is there's nothing left to do.
• 1:24:41
  So now I just satirize it and let it rip all day
• 1:24:43
  and just look for the punchline.
• 1:24:45
  You know what I mean?
• 1:24:46
  Because it's an oversaturated market, so there's nothing left.
• 1:24:49
  because now everybody's doing it for the clout.
• 1:24:52
  And I'm like, man, I've been doing this so damn long.
• 1:24:55
  I've seen it all.
• 1:24:56
  I've done it all.
• 1:24:57
  There's nothing left to do but to completely flip.
• 1:24:59
  So with that being said, where is the grift, as you said?
• 1:25:03
  Where would it be that you would be grifting?
• 1:25:06
  How am I a grifter?
• 1:25:07
  No, you're still an earner.
• 1:25:08
  No, no, no.
• 1:25:09
  That's the question.
• 1:25:10
  I don't care.
• 1:25:10
  Oh, okay.
• 1:25:12
  Listen, Reddit would tell you I'm a grifter
• 1:25:14
  because of the gifting on TikTok.
• 1:25:17
  But I would tell you a lot of those people on Reddit
• 1:25:19
  are just jealous that I get to make money going to Disney World.
• 1:25:22
  Oh, I thought you were alluding to maybe because, for example, you can act one way on a show
• 1:25:28
  like mine, but then on yours, you have to be a different person.
• 1:25:32
  No, if people don't understand persona, that's them.
• 1:25:34
  Gotcha.
• 1:25:34
  What I used to do in the early days about being professional was I didn't express my
• 1:25:40
  opinions as much.
• 1:25:41
  Right.
• 1:25:41
  I didn't say what I was thinking.
• 1:25:46
  Now, I say whatever I want.
• 1:25:47
  I choose my words carefully so that if people are only half listening, they're not going to know what I'm saying.
• 1:25:54
  But to those that have anything above an eighth grade reading level, I can get away with saying things in a family-friendly manner and bring somebody to shit.
• 1:26:04
  But it was a natural evolution of showing all of myself.
• 1:26:09
  It's not that I wasn't being authentic in the beginning.
• 1:26:12
  I was still being me.
• 1:26:13
  but I took the gloves off
• 1:26:17
  because there was nothing left to do
• 1:26:19
  and it became an oversaturated market.
• 1:26:22
  So again, how do you differentiate yourself?
• 1:26:27
  It goes back to the idea of the purple elephant
• 1:26:29
  if you're familiar with that marketing term.
• 1:26:31
  So how do you differentiate yourself
• 1:26:33
  in a world of podcasting now
• 1:26:34
  when everything on YouTube is a face like this,
• 1:26:37
  like yours, right?
• 1:26:40
  To me, you know what this is like?
• 1:26:42
  You're an audio guy.
• 1:26:43
  This is like phase two of podcasting because podcasting had a boom.
• 1:26:47
  This is the phase two boom of podcasting.
• 1:26:50
  This is like when mini disc came back the second time.
• 1:26:54
  That's what this is.
• 1:26:56
  You know what I mean?
• 1:26:57
  Yeah.
• 1:26:58
  Yeah.
• 1:26:58
  Well, I, I understand what you're getting at.
• 1:27:02
  In my perspective, I'm, I am what you see, man.
• 1:27:07
  You know, I, I don't, I don't, I don't believe in being that different person.
• 1:27:12
  The only thing this does for me when I get on the mic and I got the earbuds or whatever
• 1:27:17
  the hell it is, I get focused.
• 1:27:19
  That's all it is.
• 1:27:20
  It's just like me having a drink, right?
• 1:27:23
  Loosens me up a bit.
• 1:27:24
  And now I can have a conversation without inhibition because now I'm just focusing on you.
• 1:27:28
  I know that I hit the record button and I got to get here to this space where I can listen,
• 1:27:36
  hopefully say something that has new value.
• 1:27:39
  But, and sometimes I'm playing mental judo with people.
• 1:27:42
  you know, but I am who I am, you know, and you're right. There's a lot of guys that may look like
• 1:27:47
  me, but really, you know, for me, look, I'm a working person. You know, I work with my hands.
• 1:27:52
  I work in the trades. I do event production. You know, I'm in it. Sometimes I get here and this is
• 1:27:57
  what I look like because I ain't got time to polish up and put a suit on. Can I wear one?
• 1:28:01
  Absolutely. I love it. But right now, Hey, I'm more concerned about having a good conversation
• 1:28:06
  and making sure that people can hear what we're talking about. Right. So will, will, will this
• 1:28:10
  change someday? Possibly. Who knows?
• 1:28:12
  But at the moment...
• 1:28:14
  I just meant microphone face...
• 1:28:16
  I didn't take it as a tack. I'm just talking about...
• 1:28:18
  But I'm saying the world we're living in, it's microphone
• 1:28:20
  face chair squared. Well, no. There's guys
• 1:28:22
  like this. Come on.
• 1:28:24
  There's the ex-military guy with the hat
• 1:28:26
  and the tight shirt. There's a lot
• 1:28:28
  of that going around right now. And they think it's because
• 1:28:30
  it's cool and it's this whole manosphere thing.
• 1:28:32
  It's like...
• 1:28:33
  It's just a shtick.
• 1:28:36
  It really is. It's all it is.
• 1:28:37
  What we're doing right here, and I will
• 1:28:40
  tell you because when I'm listening to you and then when I'm responding to you, I'm in the zone
• 1:28:45
  right now. I'm in a dialed in thing right now where I'm focused on listening to what you're
• 1:28:53
  saying. I'm trying to build my thoughts. And to the point that I start going from my heart,
• 1:29:01
  and when I'm done, I'm like, man, I hope that made sense because that really just came from
• 1:29:05
  the soul, you know, cause I'm in the zone. Yeah. But you got, you got to put it out there, man.
• 1:29:11
  You know, that, that's the whole, that's the beauty of, of these types of conversations.
• 1:29:14
  You have to let it go and you have to get it out there, but you can't do that. If you're trying to
• 1:29:18
  hold up a fake front, it's impossible. Exactly. Exactly. And then that that's, that's the issue
• 1:29:24
  that I'm having right now with the podcasting world. And it's become such a big thing. And it's
• 1:29:30
  so influential that it's leading people in the wrong direction, I believe.
• 1:29:35
  There's a lot of intentional misinformation or, like you said earlier, there's like a
• 1:29:40
  handful of companies or whatever that control most of the narrative because of the money
• 1:29:45
  behind it.
• 1:29:46
  And that individual, when they started, may not have wanted to be that person, but now
• 1:29:50
  they're too deep.
• 1:29:51
  It's like, going back to what we were talking about earlier, do you want to get rid of the
• 1:29:54
  money or the power?
• 1:29:55
  You're kind of stuck in this situation.
• 1:29:57
  It's like, well, what do I do?
• 1:29:58
  Do I go back to poverty?
• 1:29:59
  go back to you know washing dishes like how do i have my cake and eat it too is that possible
• 1:30:04
  not to bring it back to bongino but i mean he really is the perfect example i mean i almost
• 1:30:09
  empathize with the guy yeah you know what i mean i in a weird way i mean first of all he was he was
• 1:30:14
  secret service for obama yes okay so like let's not even politicize the man for for a half a second
• 1:30:19
  let's just talk about him as a podcaster right like you you had a really good thing going why
• 1:30:26
  would you leave it because you you would be a fool to not take that opportunity like if you and
• 1:30:32
  i were given that opportunity you'd be a fool not to take it because it's once in a lifetime
• 1:30:36
  but then you get there and you find out the grass isn't always greener and that's truth
• 1:30:40
  there's there's nothing but truth than what you said because you only have one life and how many
• 1:30:45
  opportunities do you ever really get you know i kick myself would you rather live with the doubt
• 1:30:49
  would you rather live with the doubt or the regret would you really regret it though i i will
• 1:30:55
  Yes you would Everybody regrets the decision to not pursue And many of us may not even pursue something because of the fear And there also the imposter syndrome Maybe we don believe we belong in that position position or or or that we need we should be the person in that in that position taking advantage of the opportunity
• 1:31:13
  So a lot, a lot, a lot of what holds people back, I believe is both fear and imposter
• 1:31:17
  syndrome.
• 1:31:18
  If it's not fear, it's imposter syndrome.
• 1:31:19
  There's very few people that can be confident enough to walk out there into any situation
• 1:31:26
  and go, you know what?
• 1:31:27
  No matter what, I'm going to be me and I'm taking this.
• 1:31:29
  I'm taking this.
• 1:31:31
  Not many people do.
• 1:31:31
  and it's innocent and it's not it's not to put anybody down who feels the way that i just described
• 1:31:36
  because there's times we all feel that way there's times we all feel that way i've had job offers
• 1:31:41
  where i'm like you know what the money's good but this isn't me this ain't my wheelhouse that's right
• 1:31:45
  i'm not gonna be that guy i just knew it right you know so again it wasn't i wasn't trying to
• 1:31:51
  talk down anybody who may feel like oh i don't ever fit in i'm not gonna take that step there's
• 1:31:55
  a lot of fear i've always had the entrepreneurial spirit i've never been afraid to take a chance
• 1:32:00
  I've risked money.
• 1:32:01
  I've risked all that.
• 1:32:02
  You have to.
• 1:32:03
  And I'm not,
• 1:32:03
  I'm not some multimillionaire by the way,
• 1:32:04
  but I think I did pretty well for myself considering.
• 1:32:07
  And the reality is you're going to hear a hundred no's.
• 1:32:11
  You only need one.
• 1:32:12
  Yes,
• 1:32:13
  man.
• 1:32:13
  You really do.
• 1:32:14
  The basic principles of sales.
• 1:32:15
  I've always,
• 1:32:16
  I've always taken personally,
• 1:32:17
  like even with my sales teams,
• 1:32:18
  when I used to have the company,
• 1:32:19
  it was like,
• 1:32:19
  I don't care.
• 1:32:20
  You're going to hear a hundred no's.
• 1:32:21
  You got to keep knocking those doors.
• 1:32:22
  You got,
• 1:32:22
  if you're not trying,
• 1:32:24
  you're not progressing.
• 1:32:25
  And if you're always doubting,
• 1:32:26
  you're not even going to try.
• 1:32:28
  You're going to live until you've cold called.
• 1:32:30
  I mean, until you've cold called in life, then, because once you've gotten through the
• 1:32:34
  rejection of a cold call and then also had the success of a cold call, then you could
• 1:32:39
  take no's all day long.
• 1:32:41
  Sure.
• 1:32:41
  Kirby vacuums, Cutco, all that.
• 1:32:43
  I mean, it's just like, it's, you know, look, so, and again, I don't want to harp on the
• 1:32:52
  Bongino thing, but my last point to that is that the fear of
• 1:33:00
  of regret by not taking that job.
• 1:33:04
  I don't think now if I was in that position and decided to leave that I would regret taking
• 1:33:09
  the job.
• 1:33:10
  I may go, oh, I'm leaving now.
• 1:33:13
  This isn't what I thought.
• 1:33:15
  But I think the deeper regret is not knowing.
• 1:33:18
  So you take that leap and you take that opportunity.
• 1:33:21
  But to bring it back to the point of failure is most people, they shut down after a failure
• 1:33:27
  and they don't realize that failure is necessary.
• 1:33:30
  So then the failure becomes the thing that is the roadblock
• 1:33:33
  when failure is actually a necessity.
• 1:33:36
  Failure is a litmus test for success.
• 1:33:40
  Well, they don't ever want to feel that embarrassment again.
• 1:33:43
  So they avoid conflict.
• 1:33:44
  They avoid struggle.
• 1:33:46
  But failure is not doing it, not failing at trying.
• 1:33:49
  Failing at not trying is success in its own.
• 1:33:51
  Look, most businesses, as you well know,
• 1:33:54
  were birthed out of a completely different thing.
• 1:33:57
  Before Lego was Lego, they were making wooden toys.
• 1:34:00
  Nintendo was a card company.
• 1:34:02
  Right.
• 1:34:02
  So you fail at one thing.
• 1:34:05
  It's the not doing that is the failure.
• 1:34:08
  And I hope people listening hear that.
• 1:34:11
  I completely agree.
• 1:34:12
  That's what I was getting at.
• 1:34:15
  I just probably didn't communicate it.
• 1:34:17
  No, you did.
• 1:34:17
  You did.
• 1:34:18
  I love harping on that because I think that we live in a fear-based culture,
• 1:34:22
  whether it's executive level decision making or,
• 1:34:26
  or whether it's just even the fear of,
• 1:34:28
  of offending,
• 1:34:30
  but you're not going to say anything in this conversation to offend me.
• 1:34:33
  Right.
• 1:34:33
  You know what I mean?
• 1:34:34
  And I,
• 1:34:35
  I'm getting,
• 1:34:35
  I'm reading from you that it's probably the same for you.
• 1:34:38
  I'm,
• 1:34:38
  I'm good,
• 1:34:39
  man.
• 1:34:40
  You know,
• 1:34:40
  I just,
• 1:34:41
  I just had,
• 1:34:42
  I don't know if you heard of him,
• 1:34:43
  Derek Gilliard.
• 1:34:44
  He,
• 1:34:45
  he,
• 1:34:45
  he served under the first Trump administration.
• 1:34:48
  He was part of HHS 25 years.
• 1:34:52
  and he wrote this book.
• 1:34:55
  I think it was,
• 1:34:56
  I just had him yesterday too.
• 1:34:58
  Longest four years of his life,
• 1:35:00
  as he calls it.
• 1:35:01
  His perspective of working
• 1:35:04
  in the Trump administration
• 1:35:05
  as a black man.
• 1:35:06
  And we had this long conversation
• 1:35:09
  and we broke through barriers.
• 1:35:11
  We talked about race.
• 1:35:12
  We talked about racial stereotypes.
• 1:35:13
  He asked me straight up,
• 1:35:14
  hey, as a white guy,
• 1:35:15
  let me ask you why
• 1:35:16
  there's so many white people
• 1:35:17
  that shoot up schools and whatnot.
• 1:35:18
  And I'm like,
• 1:35:19
  happy to address that.
• 1:35:21
  you know you can't you can't be afraid to have those discussions you really can't you're like
• 1:35:27
  oh i have a file on that one right but you can't be afraid to have these discussions you know if
• 1:35:32
  if you're afraid of being offended you're not going to progress and learn you're just not i
• 1:35:36
  think it's boring to have a conversation where all we're doing is agreeing why do i want to have that
• 1:35:42
  conversation i mean look i i've had many many conversations where i don't agree with everything
• 1:35:48
  everyone says, but at least, you know, if you're intelligent enough of a person, I should walk away
• 1:35:53
  understanding your perspective and I should walk away with an understanding that I know why you
• 1:35:59
  think the way you do. It doesn't mean you're stupid. I just understand why you think the way
• 1:36:03
  you do. I can now say, oh, okay, the way you lived, what you went through, now I get it. I get it. I
• 1:36:10
  get it. I didn't understand it before. And that's important to me. It really is. And I like learning.
• 1:36:15
  I mean, one of the things I enjoy about having these conversations, Royce, is I always walk away learning something.
• 1:36:20
  I'm always hungry for knowledge.
• 1:36:22
  I'm always diving deep and going down these rabbit holes.
• 1:36:26
  But I like coming away from conversations where I'm like, damn, I didn't look that way.
• 1:36:30
  Or you might tell me something like, you know, earlier when you were just talking about the lady that ran that discord.
• 1:36:36
  Now I got to go look at who this person was.
• 1:36:38
  Like, things like that.
• 1:36:39
  But I do like learning.
• 1:36:41
  I like coming away with knowing that this conversation was worth it because there was
• 1:36:45
  value in it because we both walked away with some insight that we didn't have before.
• 1:36:51
  And that's what I like about this.
• 1:36:52
  And so even on what I do, Royce, I listened to quite a bit of your podcast recently knowing
• 1:36:58
  that you were going to be coming on.
• 1:36:59
  So I wanted to hear more where you're coming from.
• 1:37:01
  But even with me, when I first started, a lot of people had this thing where it's like,
• 1:37:06
  oh, he's the MAGA guy.
• 1:37:07
  He's the Trumpster guy.
• 1:37:08
  and my guests were never really like the conservative Trumpsters guys. I've had most
• 1:37:15
  people that were on the liberal or democratic side. I just talked to a psychologist who was
• 1:37:19
  a hardcore liberal. He wanted to start a fight with me verbally in a nice way. I didn't let it
• 1:37:25
  get that way. And then we both ended up coming to understand that we agree on more than we disagree.
• 1:37:30
  Because when you take politics out of it and you just talk about things that human beings need to
• 1:37:34
  deal with, you find out that, damn, we're all pretty fricking similar. We really are.
• 1:37:40
  Well, most people want the same things, right? Fundamentally.
• 1:37:43
  They want to be viable, financially viable. They want health. They want to leave
• 1:37:47
  this place in a better condition for their children or their children's children.
• 1:37:52
  It's just how they choose to get there. Yeah. The choice is made.
• 1:37:57
  But who, I mean, show me somebody who doesn't want those things. Everybody generally has the
• 1:38:02
  same desires. It's how you get there. I have to tell you this really quick because you're talking
• 1:38:07
  about all these different folks. I'm doing the Substack thing now. Like I said, I broke TikTok
• 1:38:17
  and I'm building up Substack. We've hit the Substack leaderboard, 35 and rising news, whatever,
• 1:38:23
  83. Cool. It's not based off of gifting and money. It's based off of engagement and followers and all
• 1:38:28
  that. So it's nice. It's a different proposition. And I like it. And I'm trying to get people on,
• 1:38:34
  but I don't want the same five names, some of whom we've mentioned.
• 1:38:40
  So I find this kid on the leaderboard, okay? Because I was like, oh, this is the best place
• 1:38:45
  to go. Go with contemporaries. They'll see that you're up there doing your thing.
• 1:38:50
  Young journalist, okay? Black kid. And I only say that because it's like,
• 1:38:56
  I couldn't be more of an ally, buddy.
• 1:38:58
  But okay, fine.
• 1:38:59
  So he's supposed to come on the podcast.
• 1:39:02
  I sent him the link like an hour, two hours before the show.
• 1:39:05
  And he goes, Royce, I can no longer do your show.
• 1:39:08
  The way you have characterized Trump's victories in your recent articles is absolutely abhorrent.
• 1:39:15
  And I am a journalist, but I am also a human being.
• 1:39:19
  and i wrote back trump's victories don't necessarily correlate to victories for all
• 1:39:25
  american people and he blocked me and i'm like this is wild like this is a very true statement
• 1:39:33
  you made though it's true it's true what i said or what he said what you said
• 1:39:37
  i just i'm like dude i'm trying to have a conversation with you first of all you're
• 1:39:42
  not a journalist none of us are okay even the people who call themselves journalists on tv
• 1:39:46
  are not journalists. They're commentators.
• 1:39:48
  They're talking heads, man.
• 1:39:50
  Probably are.
• 1:39:51
  But this kid's not a journalist, number one.
• 1:39:54
  And number two, Trump has had a string of
• 1:39:56
  victories, politically speaking.
• 1:39:58
  How are you...
• 1:40:00
  If you can't admit that, you
• 1:40:02
  can talk about the negative effects of these
• 1:40:04
  victories, but politically, he's had victories.
• 1:40:06
  If you can't admit that, you're not objective.
• 1:40:09
  Right. I mean, you're
• 1:40:10
  not necessarily saying
• 1:40:12
  you need to like this guy because of these
• 1:40:14
  victories. They may not be the victories you want, but
• 1:40:16
  He did have them.
• 1:40:17
  I wanted to hear what was of concern to this guy.
• 1:40:23
  And that made me, I'm like, you know what?
• 1:40:25
  This is the problem.
• 1:40:26
  You can't talk to, and I'm an independent.
• 1:40:28
  You can't talk to anybody on the left.
• 1:40:30
  They don't, it's their way or no way.
• 1:40:33
  I've been fortunate enough to have some though.
• 1:40:35
  And I don't know what it is.
• 1:40:38
  I tend to, like in this conversation,
• 1:40:41
  we have a lot of back and forth,
• 1:40:43
  but there's a lot of times where I let them talk.
• 1:40:47
  I want them to reveal who they are so I can understand where they're coming
• 1:40:50
  from before I form an opinion,
• 1:40:51
  because,
• 1:40:52
  you know,
• 1:40:53
  I could be very reactionary,
• 1:40:54
  but,
• 1:40:55
  but it could just go down the wrong road.
• 1:40:57
  I might be creating a bad situation for me and my guests.
• 1:41:02
  If I just,
• 1:41:03
  if he says,
• 1:41:03
  you know,
• 1:41:04
  um,
• 1:41:06
  listen,
• 1:41:06
  he says,
• 1:41:07
  you know,
• 1:41:07
  fuck the Republicans,
• 1:41:08
  this and this,
• 1:41:08
  and you guys are war hawks,
• 1:41:09
  whatever.
• 1:41:10
  I don't even care about that,
• 1:41:11
  but just saying,
• 1:41:12
  then I could be reactionary.
• 1:41:13
  to go like, hey, screw you, this, whatever. That gets us nowhere. Let me let this person talk. Let
• 1:41:18
  me let them get it out. Because the more you talk, the more we're going to come to a place where we
• 1:41:24
  can actually start having the conversation. And then now we're going to find out that we both hate
• 1:41:29
  politics. There's nothing you said in this conversation that I have disagreed with.
• 1:41:36
  And there's nothing you've said in this conversation that makes me think you're MAGA
• 1:41:39
  or conservative.
• 1:41:42
  Well, that's the stereotype.
• 1:41:45
  But I'm just saying.
• 1:41:47
  Fair enough.
• 1:41:47
  I appreciate it.
• 1:41:49
  I try to stay centrist.
• 1:41:50
  I try to.
• 1:41:51
  There's times that I do.
• 1:41:53
  I mean, I'll be honest.
• 1:41:53
  I do lean more right.
• 1:41:54
  But I don't think either side is 100% right.
• 1:41:58
  They both have their problems.
• 1:42:00
  They're both freaking crazy.
• 1:42:02
  Let's just be honest, man.
• 1:42:03
  You get into the extreme sides of both of them.
• 1:42:04
  It's like, wow, what world do you guys live in?
• 1:42:07
  Well, that's the horseshoe.
• 1:42:08
  Yes. Yes. Funny. That was just brought up recently with someone else I was talking about,
• 1:42:15
  talking about that. So, you know, I don't know where all this is going. I just know that what
• 1:42:22
  I see out there is a lot of frustrated individuals, including myself, because we all want change,
• 1:42:28
  but it just doesn't seem that, you know, as you said, or the deep state, they don't want to give
• 1:42:33
  up their position. They don't want to give up what they're doing. And we're just always going
• 1:42:38
  to be arguing over stuff out of our control.
• 1:42:40
  You know, there's people who get so obsessed about it that they get sick from it, just from
• 1:42:44
  the stress.
• 1:42:45
  You know, they can't even get through their day without going on X or, you know, Blue
• 1:42:50
  Sky or whatever app they choose to be on and just spewing whatever opinion they have.
• 1:42:56
  And it's like, man, a perfect example of that for me, by the way, I'm not going to name
• 1:43:01
  names, but where I live and, you know, I have frequented the Bay Area many times, especially
• 1:43:08
  for business. I went to school out there in San Jose for some time. And the reality is it's a
• 1:43:14
  whole different world. It's a whole different world. And it got to the point where it's so far
• 1:43:20
  left that if you say anything that is outside of the group, think you're a Trumpster. It got so bad
• 1:43:28
  that one day a friend of mine saw me wearing a hat that just had an American flag and they called
• 1:43:33
  me Trumpy. I'm like, what does the American flag have to do with Trump? It represents the United
• 1:43:38
  States of America. The country in which you reside, the country in which you are a citizen,
• 1:43:43
  the country in which you are benefiting from its protections and its sovereignty.
• 1:43:48
  What does that have to do with Trump? And that's where we have gotten. And that's what
• 1:43:54
  I'm concerned with is that there's too many people living on the surface of the headline.
• 1:43:59
  They don't want to dig deeper.
• 1:44:00
  They just believe whatever it is that their favorite morning show is telling them and taking
• 1:44:05
  it for face value.
• 1:44:06
  And it really wasn't that bad before.
• 1:44:08
  People were...
• 1:44:09
  they used to think for themselves.
• 1:44:12
  And I don't know if they're just so busy
• 1:44:13
  that they don't want to take the time to do so anymore.
• 1:44:16
  I don't think it's that they're busy.
• 1:44:17
  I think that there used to be a term, second screen.
• 1:44:22
  I haven't heard that.
• 1:44:23
  Second screen?
• 1:44:24
  Yeah, second screen was a term.
• 1:44:26
  Oh, you're watching TV.
• 1:44:27
  You have your iPad out.
• 1:44:28
  That's your second screen.
• 1:44:29
  Oh, okay.
• 1:44:30
  Got it.
• 1:44:30
  Okay, so second screen viewing and all this.
• 1:44:33
  We are long past second screen.
• 1:44:35
  People have the news on with music playing in the background
• 1:44:38
  and they're scrolling Twitter on their iPhone.
• 1:44:41
  So I think a lot of it has to do with hyper consumption
• 1:44:45
  and the spread of information too fast.
• 1:44:48
  So when you take social media
• 1:44:51
  and you pair it with a Steve Bannon strategy
• 1:44:56
  like flooding the zone with shit,
• 1:44:58
  it makes it very, very hard to...
• 1:45:01
  The headline, to your point, always gets the most noise.
• 1:45:04
  It makes it very, very hard to fact check anything
• 1:45:07
  because people are already on to the next headline
• 1:45:10
  and the fact check never gets the level of engagement
• 1:45:13
  or notice as the headline.
• 1:45:15
  So it's oversaturation.
• 1:45:18
  Gotcha.
• 1:45:19
  I mean, that's just my opinion,
• 1:45:20
  but I mean, you scroll, you scroll, you scroll,
• 1:45:22
  and then you jump into the next.
• 1:45:23
  I don't disagree with you because that's a tactic.
• 1:45:25
  It's a real tactic that is used.
• 1:45:28
  Oversaturating.
• 1:45:28
  Look, how are you going to keep people in control?
• 1:45:30
  You overwhelm them.
• 1:45:32
  You overwhelm them to the point that
• 1:45:34
  they don't know how to make heads or tails
• 1:45:35
  what's going on.
• 1:45:36
  you keep them moving.
• 1:45:38
  You keep their attention moving.
• 1:45:40
  You guide them just like a horse with blinders.
• 1:45:41
  That's exactly what they're doing.
• 1:45:43
  And it's the same thing in war.
• 1:45:46
  How do you overcome your enemy?
• 1:45:48
  You know, through misinformation, disinformation,
• 1:45:50
  and getting the people to believe the narrative
• 1:45:54
  so that they rise up and they oppose the ruling class.
• 1:45:58
  That's what we're seeing in America right now.
• 1:46:00
  And I don't know where it's going to go.
• 1:46:04
  I don't even want to say that I'm enjoying the ride because, sure, we get eyeballs from talking about this stuff.
• 1:46:11
  But I am more concerned with the sentiment of how people feel and view things these days.
• 1:46:20
  And that it seems like we've just lost the ability to reason.
• 1:46:25
  That the ability to think logically has just, I mean, it's just gone out the window, unfortunately.
• 1:46:32
  Everything's emotional.
• 1:46:34
  I feel like America is just a big ball of zombies.
• 1:46:38
  It's a big dumpster fire.
• 1:46:40
  And you got the perfect background and title.
• 1:46:43
  I mean,
• 1:46:44
  you really,
• 1:46:44
  and I didn't say that because of that.
• 1:46:46
  It's just the way I have always felt.
• 1:46:47
  It's a dumpster fire.
• 1:46:48
  And,
• 1:46:49
  you know,
• 1:46:50
  it's not,
• 1:46:50
  and,
• 1:46:51
  and party politics has just been turned into a sport.
• 1:46:54
  So people wave their pennant,
• 1:46:56
  but they don't think logically about what they're,
• 1:46:58
  and that's why you have this whole Epstein fissure to bring it back to that.
• 1:47:02
  Because,
• 1:47:02
  uh,
• 1:47:03
  you know,
• 1:47:04
  look, the Republicans have become the big tent party and everybody has their wedge issue.
• 1:47:09
  And now what you have is a whole bunch of people that feel betrayed.
• 1:47:13
  Okay.
• 1:47:14
  But what's going to come out of this?
• 1:47:15
  They're going to go vote Democrat next time or they're going to stay home.
• 1:47:18
  No, it's not like it's going to birth any movement.
• 1:47:21
  It's just, it's the same old, it's the, that's why they call it political theater.
• 1:47:25
  It's the same old game.
• 1:47:27
  It's exactly theater.
• 1:47:28
  Yeah.
• 1:47:29
  It's exactly theater.
• 1:47:31
  You're, you're sub stack.
• 1:47:32
  what you mentioned a little bit but you so you got into your sub stack because you kind of want to
• 1:47:37
  just change the direction you were going what about what about that sub stack attracted you to it
• 1:47:42
  was it was it the community involvement in general or was there something out some other
• 1:47:46
  vibe about it that you really were into it was it was literally the mechanics so i have as i told
• 1:47:54
  you i've been doing tiktok lives over the years and my tiktok handle is disney theme i'm not even
• 1:48:01
  I'm looking to plug it, so I'm not going to.
• 1:48:03
  But it's Disney themed.
• 1:48:05
  So I don't...
• 1:48:06
  You can put it in the metadata.
• 1:48:08
  So I don't even...
• 1:48:10
  In the early days, I didn't even want to break that.
• 1:48:15
  I wouldn't even...
• 1:48:16
  If I was doing a live radio show, I'd go do it on my Instagram.
• 1:48:20
  And I would take callers at a virtual phone bank.
• 1:48:23
  So I was always trying to do these things but I was trying to do them wherever I could I did a WordPress blog and was trying to get that going I built up the Discord and was trying to make that I thought that would be more message board and it really wasn
• 1:48:38
  So when I discovered that Substack was my blog, and I had a newsletter, a monthly newsletter,
• 1:48:45
  it became a pain in the ass. Somebody said, hey, we'll do a newsletter. We'll help you.
• 1:48:47
  And then here I am every month trying to stream, do a newsletter. It was too much.
• 1:48:52
  so substack became obviously my podcast is everywhere but substack became a podcast host
• 1:49:00
  a newsletter a blog and it took care of the discord being able to have a chat thread and
• 1:49:06
  all these things so it just became a one-stop shop for everything so it was literally mechanics
• 1:49:12
  that makes a lot of sense i never got into it and honestly you know it's like you said
• 1:49:18
  earlier, you can get very overwhelmed
• 1:49:20
  doing this. You have to pay attention to
• 1:49:22
  all this different medium
• 1:49:24
  and you got to see on top of it. And I
• 1:49:26
  just barely keep up with what I'm doing now.
• 1:49:28
  So when you were telling me your story, I'm like,
• 1:49:30
  I don't even know how you're able to keep up with all of it.
• 1:49:33
  Oh, I'm producing a whole kid series at the
• 1:49:34
  same time. I'm relaunching my YouTube
• 1:49:36
  at the end of the year. It's crazy, man.
• 1:49:39
  I just redid my YouTube.
• 1:49:40
  I destroyed it and just
• 1:49:42
  started relaunching it and
• 1:49:44
  focusing on video
• 1:49:45
  specifically for that side of it.
• 1:49:47
  so much work
• 1:49:48
  yeah definitely
• 1:49:50
  I mean video editing
• 1:49:51
  I never thought
• 1:49:52
  I'd be a video editing guy
• 1:49:53
  I was always a sound engineer
• 1:49:54
  right
• 1:49:54
  and then
• 1:49:55
  I got into video
• 1:49:56
  because doing events
• 1:49:58
  all of a sudden
• 1:49:58
  everybody wanted a live stream
• 1:49:59
  and now I'm doing
• 1:50:00
  IMAG for concerts
• 1:50:01
  and we're doing all this stuff
• 1:50:02
  and it was just
• 1:50:03
  a natural progression
• 1:50:03
  now I am spending hours
• 1:50:05
  in front of the damn software
• 1:50:08
  just doing editing
• 1:50:09
  there's ways man
• 1:50:09
  you gotta streamline
• 1:50:10
  your workflow
• 1:50:11
  oh believe me
• 1:50:12
  it's streamlined
• 1:50:13
  maybe I'm just too picky
• 1:50:14
  I don't know
• 1:50:14
  you might be
• 1:50:15
  but I only say that
• 1:50:17
  from experience
• 1:50:17
  because the last four months, five months have been,
• 1:50:23
  I feel like I've had a master class in assistive AI.
• 1:50:28
  And I have figured out how to use AI,
• 1:50:30
  not to do the work, but to make it easier
• 1:50:33
  so I don't have to do the heavy lifting.
• 1:50:36
  So I can do like 20, I think I heard somebody said like,
• 1:50:39
  oh, like 10, 80, 10, whatever.
• 1:50:40
  Everybody's got a bullshit phrase.
• 1:50:42
  But basically I can have it do-
• 1:50:44
  Oh, the 80, 20?
• 1:50:45
  Whatever.
• 1:50:46
  It was like 10, 80, 10, whatever.
• 1:50:47
  I don't know.
• 1:50:47
  It might not even add it to 100.
• 1:50:49
  They might have gone over budget, quite frankly.
• 1:50:52
  But it's just one of those things where you're like, oh, there's a way that I can do it.
• 1:50:58
  When you come on my podcast, we'll use software called Riverside.
• 1:51:03
  Yeah, I'm familiar.
• 1:51:04
  Yeah.
• 1:51:04
  And I love it because by the time we're done, I've got my transcripts.
• 1:51:08
  I've got my clips.
• 1:51:09
  I've got everything I need.
• 1:51:10
  Now, I might not use it all, but I've got options at my fingertips and I haven't even finished talking.
• 1:51:19
  So that's the kind of stuff that then buys me time to go, you know what?
• 1:51:23
  It's time to relaunch my YouTube because now I have the bandwidth.
• 1:51:27
  You know, technology is advancing in a way that, yes, there are benefits.
• 1:51:32
  You know, my issue is every time I've tried to use, I was an early adopter of Riverside
• 1:51:37
  and I can never get it to work consistently and correctly
• 1:51:40
  where I got so frustrated, I just stopped using it.
• 1:51:43
  Interesting.
• 1:51:44
  And I know they got better.
• 1:51:45
  I've tried it recently.
• 1:51:47
  No, I couldn't say recently.
• 1:51:48
  A few months back, I had a guess where I was going to try to use it.
• 1:51:53
  And same frustrations.
• 1:51:55
  I just had to go back.
• 1:51:55
  I think I just want too much control.
• 1:51:57
  I like to go back and multi-track the audio.
• 1:52:00
  I want to have more control of the audio.
• 1:52:01
  I want the individual feeds.
• 1:52:03
  Maybe it's just me.
• 1:52:05
  Maybe it's just me.
• 1:52:06
  Yeah, but there's...
• 1:52:06
  I mean, look, not to push AI, but I mean, AI can take stems out of an MP3.
• 1:52:10
  Yeah.
• 1:52:11
  So you get to this point where I'm like, and people love to resist this stuff.
• 1:52:15
  I love to be as close to the front of these things as possible.
• 1:52:19
  I always find myself finding the next thing when whatever I'm doing starts to hit mass adoption.
• 1:52:26
  I'm on to the next.
• 1:52:27
  Yeah, I believe in using it as well, Royce.
• 1:52:29
  I just, I guess I'm a control freak.
• 1:52:31
  When it comes to my shorts, I absolutely use AI.
• 1:52:33
  I mean, I use a program that just does it.
• 1:52:35
  I'm not sitting there.
• 1:52:36
  I'm not sitting there and do it.
• 1:52:38
  I'm letting it do it for me.
• 1:52:39
  I'm going back and I might make an edit here or there.
• 1:52:42
  But other than that, I'm letting the software do it for me.
• 1:52:44
  I don't have time to do all that.
• 1:52:45
  I get it, man.
• 1:52:46
  I mean look it took me so long to learn how to edit video on my cell phone Yeah To jump from Premiere But this is years years ago to jump from premiere to my cell phone and it at a certain point it became so clunky to try to take stuff off
• 1:53:00
  my phone and put it in premiere i was like stop being stubborn and now i can edit i can edit on
• 1:53:07
  two cell phones simultaneously yeah yeah that's a bad day if i'm doing that i tried to do the
• 1:53:14
  helpful thing i got the i got the big you know thumb thing i can't do it i i got i gotta i gotta
• 1:53:19
  get in front of my in front of my pc or whatever it is and you know have everything laid out in
• 1:53:24
  front i guess i'm just too old school i don't know how old are you 47 all right i just turned 44 so
• 1:53:30
  we're we're the same ballpark but yeah i look most of my my contemporaries don't touch the stuff
• 1:53:36
  everybody's, it's still very, very
• 1:53:39
  young, it's very, very new
• 1:53:41
  and I find it
• 1:53:43
  to be very exciting as a creator because
• 1:53:45
  it's giving me time to focus on
• 1:53:47
  more important things.
• 1:53:49
  Yeah, I mean time management is a thing
• 1:53:51
  your time is valuable.
• 1:53:53
  So, agreed, you know, and maybe I should look
• 1:53:55
  into more of that stuff and that's also
• 1:53:57
  a good lesson for anybody who's
• 1:53:58
  getting into the space that, you know, hey
• 1:54:01
  take advantage of the technology out there.
• 1:54:03
  It'll give you more time. Don't let it do all the work
• 1:54:05
  but let it do some of the heavy lifting so you don't have to.
• 1:54:07
  I got to look into the sub stack thing.
• 1:54:09
  I've always,
• 1:54:09
  I've always,
• 1:54:10
  uh,
• 1:54:10
  heard.
• 1:54:10
  I've just never dove into it and it's mostly a time thing for me.
• 1:54:13
  But,
• 1:54:14
  um,
• 1:54:14
  yeah,
• 1:54:14
  you know,
• 1:54:15
  I've been going through some of your stuff and it's pretty good.
• 1:54:17
  I mean,
• 1:54:17
  you're very active and,
• 1:54:19
  uh,
• 1:54:19
  it's really cool what you're doing,
• 1:54:20
  man.
• 1:54:20
  Really is.
• 1:54:21
  It's almost like you're,
• 1:54:22
  like you said earlier,
• 1:54:23
  from what I can tell,
• 1:54:23
  you're just reinventing yourself to a degree.
• 1:54:26
  Do you feel that way?
• 1:54:28
  I think,
• 1:54:29
  you know,
• 1:54:30
  reinvention,
• 1:54:30
  maybe not so much.
• 1:54:31
  I think I'm peeling back some layers that I buried.
• 1:54:34
  I,
• 1:54:35
  involved in a lot of this political stuff early on.
• 1:54:38
  I don't know if you saw the art, if you know anything about the Trump call and all that.
• 1:54:43
  No, I heard you talk about it.
• 1:54:44
  I wasn't really sure about what that was.
• 1:54:48
  Well, so I'll answer your question and then I can give you the quick summation on that.
• 1:54:52
  But it's not that it's a reinvention, but I feel like I'm going back to the things that
• 1:54:57
  I used to do and getting to show all of myself.
• 1:55:01
  So I've gotten rid of the people that just wanted me to take them to Disney every day.
• 1:55:05
  and I call that like a Disney daycare
• 1:55:08
  and now I've got the people that yeah
• 1:55:11
  we really love it when you take us there
• 1:55:13
  but we also want to hear about your other thoughts
• 1:55:15
  so I've been able to kind of pull back in some stuff
• 1:55:19
  so I would say it's more like
• 1:55:21
  maybe I'm just being semantical now
• 1:55:25
  and it's my own desire to control the narrative
• 1:55:26
  but I feel like I'm shedding skin if anything
• 1:55:30
  I don't think it's a reinvention
• 1:55:32
  because that would imply that I'm doing something
• 1:55:34
  I've never done or it's new territory and it's
• 1:55:36
  not new territory.
• 1:55:39
  And I can tell you the Trump
• 1:55:41
  story if you want to hear it real quick.
• 1:55:42
  Sure.
• 1:55:44
  So
• 1:55:44
  I
• 1:55:46
  let's see. I'm running
• 1:55:49
  an arcade business in Los Angeles
• 1:55:51
  and somewhere
• 1:55:53
  along the line, I start
• 1:55:55
  branching out to doing content because
• 1:55:57
  content's always been a part of the thing.
• 1:55:59
  And I'm producing a podcast for
• 1:56:01
  Stuttering John
• 1:56:02
  from the Stern show.
• 1:56:04
  Tonight Show former announcer.
• 1:56:08
  And he says, oh, we're going to have Casey Armstrong on the show today.
• 1:56:13
  And Casey Armstrong was a guy from the Stern Show back in the day.
• 1:56:16
  And Casey turns down at the last minute.
• 1:56:19
  I'm too busy.
• 1:56:21
  And John didn't have anything to do.
• 1:56:23
  And I go, you know, you should do is you should call the White House because Trump had just gotten to office.
• 1:56:27
  I guarantee you can get through because a few weeks earlier, I was just P.O. driving around and I got through to the White House.
• 1:56:33
  and Hope Hicks called me back.
• 1:56:36
  And I was like, oh shit, I think I'll hang up now.
• 1:56:39
  And so he goes, oh, okay.
• 1:56:43
  He goes, well, I used to party with Trump.
• 1:56:46
  I used to go on the helicopter with him to AC.
• 1:56:49
  So he picks up the phone and this is on his podcast.
• 1:56:52
  This is first term.
• 1:56:53
  And he goes, hi, John Melendez, click, they hang up.
• 1:56:59
  So he calls again.
• 1:57:00
  He goes, John Melendez, I used to hang out with Donald, click.
• 1:57:03
  And I go, you got to go my cousin, Vinny.
• 1:57:06
  You ever see my cousin Vinny not Melendez say Menendez you know not Jerry Callow Jerry Gallo I don realize as I saying this that corrupt Senator from New Jersey Bob Menendez a Democrat has ties to the Kushners
• 1:57:23
  and the Trumps. I just said it for the joke. Okay. Hi, White House. Cause my mind you,
• 1:57:31
  we're calling the main switchboard White House. Hi, this is a calling from Senator Bob Menendez's
• 1:57:37
  office oh hold on one second please right so then and and john is doing like the worst
• 1:57:44
  fucking british accent you've ever heard and he says his name is like i was like his name was like
• 1:57:51
  uh like it was like an amalgamation of like bond names it was like sean like i don't even remember
• 1:57:59
  what it was it was like sean moore or something like that and he goes uh yeah my name's sean
• 1:58:04
  more. My parents were big Bond fans. And this is all getting through. And the woman's like,
• 1:58:09
  well, listen, we just have one question. If you're calling from Senator Bob Menendez's office,
• 1:58:14
  why do you have an 818 area code from California? And he goes, oh, well, on holiday,
• 1:58:20
  in the worst accent. And they're like, oh, that makes sense. So the next thing you know,
• 1:58:26
  they're like, we'll call you back. We wrap up the podcast and we're like, fuck, that was close.
• 1:58:30
  were done and i get a call that night and he goes i just got off the phone with donald trump
• 1:58:34
  i go what he goes jared kushner called me i was on a date with some girl i go i gotta go
• 1:58:40
  i they were at a restaurant he goes i gotta go outside the president's calling i go you must you
• 1:58:44
  had to have gotten laid right because like that's the ultimate like i don't think he did which is a
• 1:58:50
  whole nother commentary on him but so i get this voicemail like this this this mp3 texted to me
• 1:58:58
  because his buddy recorded the call third party.
• 1:59:01
  I spent two days trying to get this out into the media.
• 1:59:06
  I finally Politico picked it up
• 1:59:08
  and it was a whirlwind.
• 1:59:11
  But it was, I produced that call on Air Force One.
• 1:59:16
  So reinvention, not so much.
• 1:59:19
  Dipping my toe back in the water, maybe.
• 1:59:22
  I like that story.
• 1:59:24
  It's a fun story, man.
• 1:59:25
  I try to tell it as quick as possible.
• 1:59:27
  Yeah, it is.
• 1:59:28
  Well, Royce, I don't want to hold you up anymore because you're in a completely different time zone.
• 1:59:32
  No, I'm enjoying this.
• 1:59:34
  I like this conversation, and I'm looking forward to joining you on your podcast down the road here.
• 1:59:42
  So with that being said, man, if you don't mind, I want to wrap this up, get on with my evening over here.
• 1:59:48
  And again, I appreciate your time.
• 1:59:51
  I really do thank you for coming on.
• 1:59:53
  I really do.
• 1:59:55
  Thank you.
• 1:59:55
  I hope everything you do moving forward is just a success.
• 1:59:58
  And I know that doesn't always mean money for all of us.
• 2:00:00
  It's just keep at it, man.
• 2:00:03
  I mean, you've been doing this a while and I like what you're doing.
• 2:00:06
  It's great.
• 2:00:07
  It really is.
• 2:00:08
  I like your attitude, man.
• 2:00:08
  You always come at it with a little bit of humor and it's like, you're just very engaging.
• 2:00:12
  And it was a great, great conversation.
• 2:00:14
  Great experience, man.
• 2:00:15
  Appreciate it.
• 2:00:16
  I want to thank you for having me on.
• 2:00:17
  I look forward to having you on my show.
• 2:00:18
  And honestly, I don't do a lot of this, but it's really nice to have these kind of conversations
• 2:00:25
  and to hear how other people are thinking
• 2:00:27
  and to be reminded that at the end of the day,
• 2:00:28
  we all want the same stuff.
• 2:00:30
  So thank you for having me on.
• 2:00:31
  And to be honest, down the road,
• 2:00:32
  I'll probably have you on again if you're open.
• 2:00:33
  So don't worry about it.
• 2:00:34
  Anytime, man.
• 2:00:35
  I really enjoyed this.
• 2:00:36
  I really did.
• 2:00:37
  And I don't know how long we've done here.
• 2:00:38
  I have no concept of time right now.
• 2:00:40
  I don't know.
• 2:00:41
  Let me look down.
• 2:00:42
  I think we're at about, yeah, just over two hours.
• 2:00:45
  Okay.
• 2:00:46
  It felt about two hours, but it felt good.
• 2:00:50
  No, no, it's not a bad thing.
• 2:00:51
  No, no, it's good.
• 2:00:52
  No, it's not.
• 2:00:53
  I appreciate it.
• 2:00:54
  Thank you.
• 2:00:55
  I'm going to go ahead and wrap this up, sir.
• 2:00:56
  I want to taste your content, hold your breath and feel the tension.
• 2:01:07
  Devils hide behind redemption.
• 2:01:10
  Honesty is a one-way gate to hell.
• 2:01:25
  Shh.