Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Behind the Drama: The Real Secrets of Real Housewives with Jack Tarantino

Transcript

Behind the Drama: The Real Secrets of Real Housewives with Jack Tarantino · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
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• 0:31
  Speaker 4: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
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  Speaker 4: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is
• 0:41
  Speaker 4: the show to know.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: She talks Hollywood tales for real life.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Mr.
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  Speaker 3: Sake and Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted
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  Speaker 3: and addicted.
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  Speaker 4: Fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Listen in, listen up.
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  Speaker 2: Woo, woo.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop.
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: I'm very excited for our guest because I know so
• 1:05
  Speaker 5: many times we've talked about what really goes on behind
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: the scenes and casting of reality shows, especially our favorite Housewives.
• 1:13
  Speaker 5: And we have a man that knows it all, Jack Tarantino.
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: Welcome to Juicy Scoop for your first time, but we
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: know each other.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: We do know each other. Thank you for having me.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to be here.
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  Speaker 5: When I came across your TikToks, kind of spilling the beans,
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: I liked your style.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: I was like, why does this guy look familiar?
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: But I reached out to you to have you on
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  Speaker 5: here because you have produced Housewives and many other things
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: that we talk about here on Juicy Scoop.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: And then you're like, we work together. I'm like, that's
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  Speaker 3: why you look.
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  Speaker 5: Familiar because we did a show that I did right
• 1:45
  Speaker 5: after Chelsea Lately ended but before I started the podcast.
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  Speaker 3: Called All About Sex.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, on TLC.
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  Speaker 3: We did six episodes.
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  Speaker 2: It was literally one of my most favorite shows to
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: work on at TLC.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Really?
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  Speaker 3: That's so sad and nice at the same time.
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  Speaker 2: It was such a big swing for the network, and
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I really, really tried to get it to a season two.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And unfortunately, it didn't go that way, so I'm sorry.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: But you were great.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: You were fantastic.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: It's okay.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, yes, I was very excited for it, and
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: it was fun because it was myself, Margaret Cho, there
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: was four of us, and- It was talking about sex
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: and relationships, which really was all the thoughts I had
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: that then I parlayed later on after Go Anywhere is
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: when I started the podcast.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: So you know what they say?
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: I don't know if you know what they say, but
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: they say life's rejection is God's protection. Not that I
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: need to be protected from the show, but sometimes one
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: door closes, one door opens kind of a thing. But
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: I was excited and I thought, oh my God, this
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: is going to go for like six years or something
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: and I'll have this another opportunity just to talk about
• 2:55
  Speaker 5: things on camera like I was doing on Chelsea but you.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Know it's funny because it was such a favorite amongst
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: the execs there at TLC so when the numbers started
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: coming in and You know, it's such a hard time slot.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: You were on at 11 o'clock or 1130 on a
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  Speaker 2: Saturday night.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, they thought like all these women would just be
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: like running to go watch it. And I was like,
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: and I thought if this is going to survive, I
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: was like, first of all, it can't be just sex.
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: It could be just lots of juicy, exactly what I'm
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: doing now, type of topics and things.
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  Speaker 3: But it could go a long way. But yeah, you
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: never know.
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  Speaker 2: I had so many ideas to sort of take it
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  Speaker 2: out of the studio and go out on the street
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  Speaker 2: or go around the country and have you guys meet
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  Speaker 2: the women where they were, meet the men where they were,
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  Speaker 2: because it's such a universal but yet taboo topic.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So I don't know. Maybe we should revisit something like
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: that in the future.
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  Speaker 3: I know. It was a good time. Anyway, but.
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  Speaker 5: Prior to that, would have been when you worked on
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: Real Housewives of OC season five and season six.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 5: And tell me a little bit about your background and
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: how you even got in this business.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I moved to LA out of college and
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: my first job was on the dating game.
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  Speaker 3: Oh my God.
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  Speaker 2: And my boss was a man by the name of
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Brian Graydon who went on to run MTV. Oh. And
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: my first job was making all these half inch tapes
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: to send to all the community. And I was like,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: what is this show? It was South Park. The very
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: first episode of South Park, Brian helped get that show sold.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: And so when Brian went over to MTV, you know,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: he took a group of us over there. And so
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I cut my teeth at MTV. I worked at a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: bunch of shows.
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  Speaker 3: What years were you there?
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  Speaker 2: I was there from like 96 to like 2002. Okay.
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  Speaker 3: So then that's when I was doing Lyricist Lounge.
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  Speaker 6: Oh, yes.
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  Speaker 3: On MTV with Tracee Ellis Ross.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. I remember that show. My big show I did
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: there was a show called Biorhythm. Yeah. Yeah. Those were great.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, talk about getting your feet wet. It was amazing.
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  Speaker 3: It was fun.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fun. And then from there, I went
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: on and I started doing shows like Baldwin Hills, which
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: caught the eye of Evolution Media. And that's how I
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: got the meeting for Housewives.
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  Speaker 3: And that was a reality show about Baldwin Hills.
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  Speaker 2: It was the hills, but for black kids.
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  Speaker 5: Right, which was sort of a community in L.A. that's
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  Speaker 5: sort of upper class, just outside of L.A.
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  Speaker 3: Yes. Oh, I love that. Yeah.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: And so from there, I was actually in Paris, and
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I got a call from my agent, and I said, yeah,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I'll be home in a couple days. They said, well,
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  Speaker 2: the Real Housewives of Orange County is looking for a showrunner.
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  Speaker 2: And I knew instantly, like, you know when you just know? Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I was like, this is my show. Because I grew
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  Speaker 2: up in San Diego. Yeah. And I hung out with
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: girls like that my whole life. I mean, I just
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  Speaker 2: loved it. The hair, the nails, the makeup, the drama
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: around the guy. I mean, it was the whole nine yards.
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  Speaker 2: And so when I went in and met with Evolution Media,
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  Speaker 2: who produced the show, we hit it off right away.
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  Speaker 2: And then I went to the network. And then, you know,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: the rest is history.
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: You know what is so funny about this side of
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: the business, which the listeners, like, don't know?
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  Speaker 2: But, like, when.
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: talent or a production company is looking for a showrunner.
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  Speaker 5: Even when I've had deals and stuff where I've met
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: with a showrunner. And I remember this with Chelsea too,
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  Speaker 5: when she got her show, she's like, I've met with
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: all these guys for Chelsea lately to be showrunners.
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  Speaker 3: And only one who was a woman.
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  Speaker 5: Even looked me up on YouTube, even knew anything about me.
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  Speaker 5: And I'm like, wouldn't you want somebody to work on
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  Speaker 5: the show that either knew about you, was excited, or
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  Speaker 5: was a fan of it already?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: Which is what you were. Like that's, that's what it
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  Speaker 3: should be.
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  Speaker 5: Like, and it's so weird sometimes when they would put
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  Speaker 5: somebody on a show that like, it's exactly like, I'm
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  Speaker 5: not going to be running a show on ESPN.
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  Speaker 3: Like, I don't know about sports. I don't care. Like,
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  Speaker 3: why would I even try out for that job? But
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: sometimes that happens.
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  Speaker 5: And it's like weird that you would, that they don't
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  Speaker 5: think how logical that, how illogical that is.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's so funny too, because There's men's programming and
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: then there's women's programming, right? And I've always been a
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  Speaker 2: big fan of women's programming. And so when I started
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: coming up, you know, in my career, I only focused
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: on the women's programming and things that really lit me up.
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  Speaker 2: Because these shows, you can have no life when you
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: produce a show like The Housewives. It's a year of
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  Speaker 2: your life. And I did it three years in a row.
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  Speaker 3: So when they... say you're going to work on this show.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: So does all the camera people, does everybody have to
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  Speaker 5: find a residence in the OC because you are filming there? Like,
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  Speaker 5: so if you lived in West Hollywood, you'd have to
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  Speaker 5: like find another place to live.
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  Speaker 3: Or how does that work?
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  Speaker 2: So the production company puts us up. We all move
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: into an apartment complex and we all get apartments in
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  Speaker 2: that complex. Okay. And then we also have an apartment
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  Speaker 2: that we turned into our production office where my war
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: room is. And what I mean by that is that's
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: where we plan all the scenes. That's where we, it's
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  Speaker 2: a small group of us. I have boards up. I
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: have cards up. Like, you know, everyone says, oh, the
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  Speaker 2: number one question I get as a showrunner has always been,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: these shows are scripted. And you know this from being
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: in scripted world. I wish it was scripted.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And here's an example of why it's not scripted. So
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  Speaker 2: you know the taglines for each of the housewives? Yes.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Those are scripted lines that we spend weeks getting approvals
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  Speaker 2: from the network.
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  Speaker 3: And let me ask a question.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: It's my understanding that let's say, okay, you guys are
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: finishing up the season, come up with some taglines. So
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  Speaker 5: the producers and you will write like maybe five and
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: then you give it to the women and then they
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  Speaker 5: choose one or.
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  Speaker 2: How does it work? No, we do it. So we
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: come up with five, we give it to the network,
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  Speaker 2: they tell us the ones they like, then we get
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: the women to record them. And some of the women
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: don't know how to do it. You know what I mean?
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  Speaker 2: Some of them will just read the line. So we
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: have to rehearse with them.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: Right, because they're not actors.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: They're not actors. And so that's my point. These shows,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: you can't script this stuff. It would be so much
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: easier if these shows were scripted, right? Because we would
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: know what we were getting. We would get in and
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: we would get out. We would go and spend... Any
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: of these shows, I would go live in Orange County
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: or Miami for like five, six months at a time
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: because you have to ingrain yourself with these people.
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: And then how do you decide like– because I remember–
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: so Heather Dubrow was on it. it. And I became
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: friendly with Tamara and then Heather Dubrow. And Heather Dubrow
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: was having her groundbreaking party for her, for that house.
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: And she invited us. And then that night, my husband
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: and I went over to Shanna Bedore's and we were
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: going to go have dinner at Mastro's.
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  Speaker 3: And I remember.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: like Shannon and Vicki saying that some producer was texting
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: them like pissed that we were going to dinner when
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: cameras were down. So how does that work? Because it's like,
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: you know, you can't, this isn't the Truman show. So
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: they've got to have some time to do things on
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: their own. And you almost prefer them not to socialize
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: during the months that you're filming.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I've always said it's the best part
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: time job out there. Right. Because they work like three
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: days a week. But we do encourage them not to
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: see each other off camera. But they're real people. Right.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: So you can't guard against that. But I think part
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: of the reason we also have to go live down
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: there and we're there. I mean, I was there seven
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: days a week and I'm on the phone with them
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: every day, all day. Or I'm shooting scenes with them
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: or I'm doing interviews with them. So we have to
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: ingrain ourself into their lives because that's the only way
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: we're going to know things like they went to dinner
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: and they didn't tell cameras that they were going to dinner.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Because what happens is then they'll start talking about story
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: that then we're going to have to. And I never
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: did recreations. We were in the moment following the stories
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: as they were coming along. So I would always discourage
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: them from that. And in order to get to that
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: point where they would listen to me, I had to
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: be a very strong person with them. Because, you know,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: you wear many hats as a showrunner. You're part psychologist.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: I was going to say there's a lot of psychology involved.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God, Heather. There is so much psychology.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: When you are.
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: Looking— wait, finish what you're going to say, and then I'm
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: going to ask my next question.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you just— I would always discourage them because you're
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: on a show. Yeah.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: And you want the show to be successful. So this
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: is your job. You're being paid for this. So it's
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: not a lot to say, hey, Vicki, Shannon, don't go
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: to dinner without cameras there. Yeah. You know what I mean?
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: So— And so, like I've said about the psychology, when
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: you're interviewing people to be segment producers or producers, is
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: that a bonus that they studied psychology or that that
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: is a true interest of theirs? Because in the psychology,
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: are some producers, you know, part of their job is,
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: I think, to manipulate and convince someone to.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Share more, right?
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: If they're holding back, you'd say, you know... Emily, share
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: about your struggles with your son because think of how
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: this might help other women, which it has. But then
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: at the same time, she got heavily criticized for sharing
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: her son's struggles with the HIPAA laws.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: And he's a child.
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: And I see both sides. I see both sides. I
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: think it's a really difficult thing. And that's why I
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: think there's certain mothers on this show that their now
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: relationship with their adult child is extremely strained because the
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: child didn't enjoy having their life share it on TV.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We can talk to Brianna, Vicky's daughter about that.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, that poor girl has PTSD. But, you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: going back to your question about hiring field producers for
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: this show, it was a very tedious process because, to
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: your point, these people were going to be spending months
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: on end with these women. So it was part experience,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: but it was also part intuitive, like who understood the psychology,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: because that is a big, these are like, you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: social experiments, if you will, in human behavior. And, you know,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: these women don't always act grown up, especially when you
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: add a little bit of alcohol to some of this stuff.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: You have to have somebody who has very thick skin,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: who's going to be able to take Vicky yelling at you,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: and humiliating you in front of a restaurant full of people.
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: Why do they get mad at the producers and stuff
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: like that? If they're just supposed to be like a
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: fly on the wall, why would a housewife get mad
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: at a segment producer?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Because it's somebody they can take it out on, right?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: So if, for example, if one of the women got
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: into a confrontation and it didn't look good for them,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: they would immediately throw it back on production and they
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: would come find me and they would try to yell
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: at me or yell at the team.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: And would they ever try to say, please don't use that?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: And then do they know that's just– probably by saying
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: that would maybe make you– if you might have cut it,
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: I would think that the reverse psychology is not to
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: say that. And just like go to church and pray
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: that you don't use it. Because I think by saying don't,
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: don't use it, it'll kill me would mean I would
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: be like, well, then I better use it because it's
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: obviously going to be a good reunion moment.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, the contracts that Bravo has them sign are
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: like Bibles. So they know everything. We can only put
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: on TV, on camera, what you give us. So. That's
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: another reason why when people say it's scripted, I can
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: never have the blowback of that. So if I tried
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: to go up to Tamara or Vicky or one of
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: the girls and say, I need you to go... That
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: would never fly with them, right? So when people say
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: it's scripted or... No, this is just the... I like
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: to say that I would put them in a... I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: would paint like a sandbox for them and then they
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: go in and then they play in the sandbox.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Now, I mean, this was.
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: When you were working on Housewives, this is one of
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: the seasons you worked on, right?
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: You had Peggy, Tamara. Peggy was only on one season.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: And you had told me that in looking at the
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: casting that you guys had already discovered Heather Dubrow as
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: a potential.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: We interviewed Heather and Terry during season five, and we
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: loved her. We thought she was a breath of fresh air.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: The network, I think, was a little reticent at first
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: because she was an actress. And at that point, Beverly
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Hills hadn't debuted yet. And so they weren't really keen
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: on having actors come in yet. But we really pushed
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: for her. And the network at the time just felt
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: like they wanted to go in a different direction. I
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: think they wanted somebody that had more of the aesthetic because...
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Heather was a brunette and all the girls were blondes.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: So Peggy fit that type.
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: They weren't ready for that DEI hire just yet.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: They weren't. I mean, we pushed and pushed and pushed
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: because we just thought Heather was amazing. And she lived
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: that aspirational lifestyle for real. She wasn't like one of
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: the fake ones, like renting a house.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: And she was down for it.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: She was down for it.
• 17:29
  Speaker 6: Uh-huh.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And you see her now. She's great.
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: Do you know if she reached out or someone had
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: discovered her?
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: No, it came through our casting agent, casting director discovered
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: her and brought her in. And then we met with
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: her and we fell in love with her and we
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: put her on tape, her and Terry on tape, and
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: we sent it to the network. And they just, that
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: first season, they just weren't.
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: It's funny, yeah, because you said they wanted all blondes.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: But who is this girl on the end?
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: I don't remember her at all.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Fernanda.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, she was our first lesbian.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, the first lesbian. She was Tamara's trainer. And remember
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: they made out? Yes, they made out. But that was
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: also the.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, Tamara tried to make out with me
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: in Cabo. I mean, I'm a gay man. I mean,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: God bless her.
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: She made out with Bronwyn. Yeah, she was really the...
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: You know, the originator of it.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she was.
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: Now it's like half the cast, half of the housewives
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: have had some type of lesbian liaison storyline something.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Now it's, I mean, look at Portia Williams. Yeah.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, now she's got a full-on girlfriend.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Full-on.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, amazing. But yeah, season five was also the
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: first season with Alexis. Right. Right. who I have to say,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: like when she walked into the audition or the meeting,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I should say, I was like, Oh God, this woman
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: is gorgeous. But you know, she was married to her
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: husband and we'll just leave it at that. Yeah.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: And, um, yeah, I mean, she, it was, they were fun.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: I mean, it was very fun the way, you know,
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: that type of, um, mega church Christian, uh, cultural movement
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: that was kind of happening at the time in those 2000s,
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: I think was very representative of what was going on.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: And then also really interesting to the people at home.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: And hence where the Jesus jugs came.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Jesus jugs, classic line. Yeah. I mean, you know, the
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: other thing is her and Gretchen were really tight. Yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: You know, they were God-fearing women and they were really
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: good friends. And it's interesting to see them now have
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: drifted so far apart. And I never would have guessed,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: and it was never on my bingo card. that Tamara
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: and Alexis would become friends ever. Yeah.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: And why do you think they did?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Because I think it's because of Shannon. I really do.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I just think that, you know, Tamara gets her feelings hurt.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And I think that's her way of acting out. Yeah.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: You know, because she couldn't stand Alexis for many years.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: know about the drawer. The drawer. Just the one square
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: before bed. Or two, you know.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Nobody's watching.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: You deserve a treat. With eight flavors to choose from,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: you can choose the flavor you favor.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: With Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: I'm Darman and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: have faced tremendous setbacks. and yet somehow have found a
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Life is one long lesson of chaos. I'm heading to
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: the Emmys and I have police complaints filed against me.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: what would you.
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: Do if it was given back? Where did that need
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: come from where you thought that you had to succeed
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: in order to feel loved?
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: He said, I have a work debt.
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: I need a home debt.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: What happens next? When I came in, he started crying.
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: happens next.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all. I realized how valuable
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: every day was. You're worth the work. Listen, Dara, I'm
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: not going to pull punches.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: I think that Tamara, I think that Shannon is someone
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: that is a very needy friend. And when she was very,
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: very needy, I know Tamara was there for all the
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: calls and all the things. And then when she was
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: not on the show for a year or two, she
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: didn't hear from her. And I think that built a
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: lot of anger and resentment. And that's where the Tamra
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: grudge comes, which people are like, where is.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: That coming from?
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: I'm like, it's coming from that. And that's what I
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: think is really hard. And I think that happens, especially
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: with the women of OC is when they're friends, they're
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: on the show and then they're friends and then one
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: gets the boot and they're like, well, I can't be
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: friends with the person that got the boot anymore because
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: then it'll cause problems with me filming with these other women.
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: And I mean, what would you suggest, I mean, I
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: do think that's really a very hurtful thing. It's like
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: being in high school where you didn't make the varsity
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: cheerleading team and now your best friend who's on it
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: never talks to you again because you're not on the squad.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: And you're like, what?
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: We shared everything together.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: We had sleepovers.
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: Like, it never changes. Like, that Generation X women, we honestly,
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: this just is representative of that we are still the
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: bitchy assholes that we were in 1988.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's why we love to watch these shows. I know.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, seriously.
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: It's not going to be the same with whatever the
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: younger housewives are. They'll have their own dynamic. But our
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: Gen X dynamic of women are great and funny, but
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: also can be really mean, bitchy, slumber party witches, you know?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Really catty. Yeah. I would say that point about not
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: talking to Tamra when she got, you know, on pause
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: or whatever. But she did keep talking to Vicky. Shannon did.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Shannon did. So it doesn't really make sense. I think
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: it was a way to be a little more up,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: like Shannon had the upper hand because she was asked
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: back to the show and Tamara at the time was
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: the longest serving housewife. Listen, I spoke to Tamara and
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Vicky right after they both got let go. In fact,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I developed a show with them and took it out. Anyway,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: it was a different story, but- They were both heartbroken.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Because their whole identity was wrapped up, as you can imagine.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: I mean, like any job, when you've been on it
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: that long, and that it then is wrapped up in
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: fame too. And I also think the BravoCon that began,
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: and I think the first year was 2019 or 18.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Was it 19? I don't know. It would have been, yeah,
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I think it was 19.
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: I think that.
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: That that has also really changed these women.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: It's a fan fest.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: It's like there was a humbleness about them that like
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: I watched the show and I was so into it,
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: but it wasn't that popular. And when I would meet them,
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: they'd be like, oh, you know who I am? I
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: don't think that even walking around OC, it wasn't. this
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: like famous thing. They were still, don't you think in
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: those years they were able to kind of like, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: so they didn't see themselves as stars. Like maybe they were,
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: they had one time they were on a talk show
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: or whatever, but now it's like that, you know, you're
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: a rock star. And it's like, I think that's, I don't,
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: I just think it changes the dynamic of what it
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: was and you can't blame them for it. They, they
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: should have that fun and they, You can't blame Bravo
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: for wanting it and the fans love it, but it
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: definitely changes what it was.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: It does. And it makes it harder to sort of
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: produce the women because they become so savvy. You know,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: when they're going to something like BravoCon and they're being
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: treated like when the Beatles came out, people are screaming.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: In 1960, yeah. I mean, and people are screaming for them.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a funny example. My husband and I
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: flew down to Puerto Vallarta a couple of Christmases ago
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: and we had dinner with Vicky and Mike.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: We're going to Mexico.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: We're in Mexico. And we went with her to Andalusia.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Of course. And on the way there, I'm arm and
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: arm with Vicky. Yeah. And this woman comes out of
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: nowhere and screams, Vicky, come on. And it freaked me
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the hell out. Yeah. And I was like, Vicky, don't
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: you get like. freaked out when your fans like come
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: and scream your name she's like are you kidding me
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: they love me like you know she's like the mayor
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: down there yeah so and now that the show's like
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: global right these they really have become full-on celebrities and
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: they're getting brand deals and they're getting commercials i mean
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: look at candy burris she's like a full-fledged broadway producer
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: She's worldwide. She is. She's worldwide.
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, she had a career, a very successful
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: career in one of the hardest industries, you know, songwriting
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: and producing prior to it. So, like, that's really great.
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: And she makes great TV. And she's just smart and
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: extremely likable.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But to break into the Broadway. Yeah. Like, that's
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: such a tight. Oh, totally. Yeah. That's a tight group
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: of people. And so, you know, for her to, like,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: be able to break in.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: As a producer, not just doing Roxy Hart.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. Not just doing Roxy Hart. It kind of is,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: you know, you're blonde and you're on a popular reality show.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Who wants to play Roxy next?
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Gina Kino.
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: She was an original.
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Gina was one of the originals.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: And, you know, there was always that controversy.
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: She's done some interviews about why, what happened with why
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: she left. And, my understanding is that it just came
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: down to negotiations, which we know back then it wasn't
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: a big moneymaker as far as, as for, as for
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: the cast, you didn't make the money. Wasn't, I mean,
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: the money was better than working in, you know, as a,
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: you know, an executive assistant or something or working at Nordstrom,
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: but it wasn't actress changing money.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: It's not like you were on friends.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: No, it was not life changing money. In fact, the
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: first season, these girls go on, they end up spending
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: more money than they make. Right.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: Even today.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Even today.
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But, you know, by the time season five rolled around,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I would say that for Gina, you know, I think
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: it did come down to contract negotiations. And I also
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: think that from Bravo's perspective, that I think they wanted
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: to make the franchise, the franchise was bigger than any
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: one And so I think it sent a shockwave throughout
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: all of the franchise. I mean, back then it was
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: only OC and I think New York had just started.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: And I think they were starting to look for other
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: cast in different cities. But I think that gave Bravo
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: the upper hand. It's like, no, no one, no one
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: housewife is bigger than the franchise.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Everyone is a dispendable.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Everyone. I mean, and you saw it when Vicky got
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: let go. I think that also was another one because
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the OG of the OC is being let go. That
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: meant anybody could be let go.
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: And don't you think sometimes even if it wasn't conscious,
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: it's kind of like, you know, if we're going to
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: let her go, you.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Better just get your marching order.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: And stay in line.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: You know the assignment. Yeah. And you, you know, you
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: act accordingly. That's why it's, to be honest, it's a
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: little hard watching the shows now with all these like
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: giving stories to bloggers and, you know, watching OC this
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: past season and, I don't know if I really enjoyed it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: I have to say the truth. And I was so
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: hopeful when Gretchen came back on because I love Gretchen.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: My husband and I have socialized with her and Slade.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: But I just felt like she didn't really capture what
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I think everyone was hopeful that she was going to capture,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: meaning like taking Tamara to task.
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: I think, yeah, but you know, that's the thing. You
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: don't have the control of the narrative. And so then
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: that So when the stories were presented, then that was
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: the thing that she had to then defend herself against,
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: whether she said the thing about the naked waisted or
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: not or whatever. And I don't think that was like
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: the intention. I think the intention was to show this
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: fun side of her life now as a young mom
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: and a successful influencer. And she's still with the guy
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: from 16 years ago that everyone thought that he was
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: just there to be on the show. You know, like
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: I think they wanted to show that, but then they
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: still have trauma about You know, from the residual effects
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: of being on the show and like defending themselves. And yeah,
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: I think that, yeah, it's all that, you know, of
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: like how that, how it changes. And I think that,
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: you know, even like when I met Shannon Bedore for
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: the first time, she was like, oh, I had to
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: like go down the street to have someone do my
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: eyelashes or whatever. She's like, I've never worn fake eyelashes
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: before I was cast. And now every woman has full
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: hair and makeup, hair extensions. And those things, once you
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: start them, like you can't stop it. Like you have
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: to keep that up. And that is such an expense.
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: And I can understand why. Because they look back and
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: they're like, oh, my God, I had no upper lip.
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: Now I get lip filler. oh my God, how was
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: I not knowing about contouring my skin or whatever? And
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: then also the house and stuff. Someone being like, I
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: can't believe you have that old thing from Z Gallery.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: I got it in 2008.
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: And they're like, oh, I still do have that thing
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: from Z Gallery in 2008.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: I better change that now. There's a whole nother expense there.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: It's funny that you say that. So I got interviewed,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: a book is coming out next year and it talks
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: about the 2018, market crash, and specifically season five of
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: The Real Housewives of Orange County because of how that
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: show was perceived, right? And all these women had to
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: sort of live up to this lifestyle. Most of them did.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Most of them owned their homes and lived in Cotto
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: and these beautiful homes, but there were a couple that
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: did not. And we ended up capturing... You know, one
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: of them on camera famously was Lynn Curtin. She got
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: evicted from her Laguna Beach home that they were renting.
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: So you were really filming that day and really the
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: person who actually owned the property had someone knock the
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: door and serve them.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: No. So I got a call from the realtor who,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: you know, when you're living in Orange County and you're
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: shooting the show, everyone, every you make friends with people that,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: you know, are going to be in the orbit. So
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: they called me and they actually wanted to come during
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: filming to serve her the eviction notice. But we had
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: this big dinner party and there was so much story
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: to service. I said, well, can you just give it
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: a beat and come tomorrow morning? So that's why we
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: knew the cameras. That's why the cameras were up. We
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: knew it was coming. So those are happy accidents that
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: happen because when you're a good producer, I think knowing
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: the town and knowing the right people It's sort of,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: you know, you get a leg up on sort of
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: knowing exactly what's going on in the world, not just
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: with each of the individual ladies. But the truth is,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: we knew that Lynn and Frank were, you know, they
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: couldn't really afford that lifestyle. But, I mean... Don't rent
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: a $ 17, 000 a month home or however much it was.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: If you can't afford it, we're still going to fault
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you're on the show.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: I remember they gave one of the girls a BMW
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: and then she got the facelift and, you know, and
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: this is all on the budget of selling a cuff
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: or two, you know? And I also remember that Gretchen
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: went and was trying to be like a big sister
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: to the, to the daughters and help and, That was
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: not received well.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: And the girls have struggled, you know, sadly.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: And that's also really what's interesting now is that now
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: there's so much, as I would say, juicy scoop history
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: that we can actually go back and be like, wow,
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: how did this affect this person positively or negatively or
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: whatever being on the show?
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: So interesting. Let's talk a little bit about– Brooks.
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: And Vicki, this is by far my favorite of all
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: storylines that have ever happened because it was not, um,
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: a blogger leaking it.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: No, we did not know it.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: And I don't think even though I was friendly with
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: the women, I don't think I knew what was happening. Um,
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: except I went to, I'm pretty sure this was happening. Heather,
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: Heather Dubrow and, And Terry did a book called like
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: The Mr.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: And Mrs.
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: Guinea Pig or whatever. And it hadn't come out yet,
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: but they wanted to have like a book party for it.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: And I went to it and actually then had dinner
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: with Gretchen and Slade after. And they weren't on the
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: show anymore. And I'm in that episode because I'm talking
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: to Vicki. And I want to say it was around
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: this time. And she was telling me the girls are
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: being horrible to me. And I had already had dinner
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: with Brooks. So we thought he was nice. So I
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: didn't know why they were being mean to her. She
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: just told me they're being horrible to me this season.
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: And then I got to watch it and saw that
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: it was the fake cancer story.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's something that she will never let down.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's her biggest regret was the day she
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: met that guy. I mean, I actually never met Brooks
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: because I had already moved on from the show. But
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I have to say, I mean, here's something that you
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: know that most people on camera know. It's the camera
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: never lies, right? So what that means is the essence
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: of whatever's happening in the situation, the camera picks up
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: on that. I mean, we all saw it with him
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: as soon as he walked on. I mean, I was
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: watching as a fan from home because I watched the
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: show before I started working on it, and I watched
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: it after I left. And it's just Vicky, you know,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I think I reached out to her at one point
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: just to check on her. She was not having a
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: good time. That story will forever go down as a
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: black cloud over her, for sure.
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: And in your opinion, because I don't know the truth,
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: I don't know if anybody knows the truth, do you
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: think she, as she was making the binder from him
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: going to Hoag, which he wasn't, do you think she
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: ever suspected it or she was just like, la, la, la, la, la,
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: and didn't really want to know and just hoped that,
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: he would get better once the cameras were done and
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: then they would never have to talk.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: About it again.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was the latter. I mean, Vicky's
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: a very smart woman, so I'm sure there were red
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: flags for her, but I think if she really, really
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: knew the extent of his scheming, I think she would
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: have confided in someone. And that person would have come
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: forward by now. So I really do think she was
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: bamboozled by, I hate to say it, but her love
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: tank was full from him. You know what?
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: I have gone back and forth.
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: And one of my things that I'm kind of obsessed
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: with is just grifters in general. And there have been
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: a lot of long form documentaries and podcasts on grifters.
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: And one common denominator is the making up of cancer.
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: of lying about cancer. And there are so many people
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: that get tricked by it. That, you know, oh my God,
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: I met her at church and I was, oh, we
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: were mom friends and she was my girlfriend. And when
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: you hear it, you're just like, how could you not know?
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: But now that there's been so many other stories besides Vicki's,
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: I'm actually a little more sympathetic to what it was.
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: Because if you are not a medical professional, if you
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: never had cancer, if you never cared for someone that
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: had cancer, you could just be like, oh, my God,
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: he's so strong. Those Jamba Juice, you know, smoothies are
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: really working.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, here's what I will say. In Vicky's defense,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I would say that if she did really know, like,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I think she would have come clean at some point.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: I really do.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: But then that would have made me.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: You know, if you're going to come clean about.
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: Your partner, no matter what it is, fake cancer, he
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: yells at me, he's abusive, whatever. If you're going to
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: come clean to anybody, but especially on TV, then you
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: know you can't be with that person anymore.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: And I think that was the hard thing.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: She wasn't ready to give him up.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: She wasn't. And, you know, look what it did with
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: her relationship with her daughter. I mean, and that was
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: all on camera. I mean, poor Brianna has PTSD from
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: that show anyway, but I think that exasperated everything because
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: she also fought a potential cancer diagnosis afterwards. And so
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: of all the things on herself, Yeah, they thought that
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: she had all those thyroid issues.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, you mean Brianna.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Brianna, yes. And so, you know, I mean, that's a
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: hard thing to sort of have to deal with with
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: your own daughter. Even to this day, Vicky, if you
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: bring up that name, you just can see her. It
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: just is the biggest mistake of her life.
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because, I mean, it sounded like through the reunion
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: that they had something going on but while she was
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: still married to Don, whether it was just emotional or whatever,
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: he was, you know, in her texting her something Brooks.
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: And so I think that she ended her relationship with
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: Don knowing that she had this other guy and he
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: turned out to be, you know, a piece of shit.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: So, and did she get him all new teeth?
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. I'm sure of it. I mean, he
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: didn't have a pot to piss in. I mean, Listen,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: that's the thing about Vicky. She's very... She's got a
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: big heart.
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: Was there any time that you thought that she would
• 40:48
  Speaker 5: be the first lady of California?
• 40:51
  Speaker 6: No.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Remember when he was dating Steve Lodge?
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: Brother of Roger Lodge, host of Blind Date.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Blind Date, yeah.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: One of my favorite shows.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Steve was another one of those guys that is... It's
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: just like Bronwyn's Todd.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I just don't understand. He gives grandpa energy.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: And then he married a 35-year-old.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: And he's the one that bitches about the show so much,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: and yet he's doing scene after scene after scene. If
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: you really have that big of a problem with the show,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: then don't be on the show. There's many husbands that
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: have said they just don't want to be on camera.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: And can that hurt a housewife, her employment?
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: It can hurt a housewife getting on the show because
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the show's about being a housewife, right? But if the
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: husband suddenly decides, you know, in the next season that
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: they don't want to be on, they can't force him
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: to be on.
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: Right, but don't you think that could cause problems for
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: them in a marriage? Because I would be like, if
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: I love doing this, and I think, and... you know,
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: and then the.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Producer's like, oh, really? Peter's not gonna show up for that? No,
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: he's not. All right, well, all the other.
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: Husbands are gonna be there. I'd be like, oh my God, Peter,
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: like you're ruining this for me. I've always wanted to
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: be on TV, but I gave it up so that
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: I could be a mom. And now it's my time
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: to shine and you're just taking it away. And I
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: think that's why it leads to so many divorces. I
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: think with, not that everyone that got divorced had a
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: perfectly happy marriage before, but I think without the cameras,
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: at least half of those divorces probably wouldn't have happened.
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: They would have ridden the wave of tougher times with
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: teenagers and whatever, and probably ended up just staying together.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: Because why not?
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: Because the opportunity to leave financially or whatnot wouldn't be there.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: Do you agree?
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I totally agree. And it's funny because there's this thing,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: the housewife curse, right? That they all allude to. And
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I think the kicker was when Kyle and Mauricio- parted
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: ways because I think we all thought that is a
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: relationship we all can aspire to. And once that was over,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, wow, there really is some truth to
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: this housewife curse because there's not very many housewife marriages
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: that are still intact. In fact, most of them aren't
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: even in relationships.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: I think only Lisa Vanderpump and Ken.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: And Melissa and Joe Gordon.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: And Melissa and Joe.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: And So, and I think with Kyle and Mauricio, what also,
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: there was one thing that she said when she was like, just,
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: you know, crying about it, where she was like, it
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: was the thing, she said something, not the thing I'm
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: most proud of. She was saying something like, it made
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: me think that again, if she wasn't at this level
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: of being a public figure for being herself, if she
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: was just continued to be an actor or a mom
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: or whatever, probably they would have gotten divorced 10 years ago.
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: I think she hung on because she was the one
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: giving this example. She was put on this pedestal as
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: this cute couple that still screwed and looked attractive and
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: were fun. And the only other person that had it
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: was Kathy Hilton. You know, so her sister Kim had
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: been married, divorced four times. And of course she came
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: from a mom that had several husbands. So I think
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: she wanted to have that. And, Why do you think
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: she won't come out as just whatever she is? I
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: guess we're going to finally see it a little bit
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: this season, which airs, I think, tonight. Yeah. Is, you know, well,
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: maybe I'll go for Brad or Angelina. Like, what is— now
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: that everyone's gay on The Housewives, we're like, oh, you
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: should have come out when you could.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: Like, who cares?
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: It would have been so much— such a bigger story. I
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: think your point about Kyle having to sort of hold
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: it all together for, A, her daughters. Yes. Right?
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: Which a lot of women do, yeah.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: And a lot of women do that. And I think
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: that they were sort of that prized couple that everyone looked,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: even though the streets were talking about him for years. Yeah.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Having a wandering eye or whatever. So I think it
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: was her responsibility to keep that marriage intact. But, you know,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: she only did it for as long as she could.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: And now we'll see. But I agree. If she would
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: have come out five years ago, oh, my God. she
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: would have, like, her star would have really taken off.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Now it's kind of like, well, we've seen it. Who isn't? Yeah, everyone.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, they all are now. I mean, she might
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: have an OnlyFans page next. I mean, who knows? Right.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: Geared towards late-in-life lesbians. How about that?
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: There's a business. Exactly.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: Let's move on.
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: So, Jen Shaw of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City,
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: who was sentenced to like nine years, only did about
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: a little over two and a half, I think.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: She's getting out December 10th.
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: And her crime was pretty bad in that she ran
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: a huge scheme that really took advantage of the elderly
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: and vulnerable people. which was so cruel because it gave
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: them hope to like have their own business. So it
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: was like a triple screw over, you know? And then she,
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: I didn't, I never liked her from the moment I
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: saw her on camera. I didn't like that she was
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: screaming and yelling. I didn't like that she was all flashy.
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: And that was another thing I was going to say
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: that someone said, maybe it was Tamara, whoever, not until
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: Heather Dubrow came on, did with her Chanel and her
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: real Chanel and her actually, you know, cause she came
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: from money too.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: She did.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: She came from money. She had her own money.
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: She married someone that has a potential of making a
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: lot of money and he did. So yeah, she, I
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: don't think she was buying her stuff, you know, um,
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: you know, out of someone's trunk.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Like it was all real.
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: And I think that also upped the ante of all
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: these women having to have this label is stuff. And
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: I think probably 80% of it's fake that we see.
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: And probably maybe a 20 is real.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Or it's on loan from a stylist.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like some of these girls
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: are wearing stuff that, you know, they begged, borrowed and
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: steeled to get on. But Heather, that's why we loved
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Heather so much because she was the real deal. Right.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: She was living. Bravo used to like talk about the
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: aspirational lifestyle like it was Bible. So we were. indoctrinated
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: with that word. And so that, when I was shooting
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: the show, I always shot it through that lens of
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: how are we showcasing their aspirational lifestyles? And I feel
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: like the essence of The Housewives has kind of gotten
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: away from that a little bit because there's so much
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: fighting and drama that we're not really getting to see
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: a bunch of their real life you know, and how
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: they live those aspirational lifestyles, but with someone like Heather,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: who is the real deal. That's why I love her
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: on the show. And I know she sometimes can be
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: polarizing to people, but she really embodies that in a housewife.
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: You know what I just kind of realized just now,
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: because I'm so brilliant. No, I remember one time asking somebody,
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: why do you watch Hallmark movies? You know, they're so
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: boring compared to like a Lifetime movie, but the same
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: level of cheese. And someone said, because nothing ever bad
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: happens on them and I don't have anxiety watching it
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: like I would a Dateline or even a Lifetime movie
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: where the nanny, you know, tries to kill the mother
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: or whatever. And I feel like that's the difference in
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: the last eight years of Housewives.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: It was fun. It was comfort.
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: You'd watch a marathon of it and you'd go out
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: and you'd almost feel like.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: You were in it. You know what I mean?
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: Like even like the real world back in the day.
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: And now I think you watch it and it gives
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: you anxiety. You have some anxieties for some people. Some
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: people love that. Some people, you know, like I said,
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: some people, I like watching Datelines and whatnot. I, I,
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: I'm okay watching it. But when you go back and
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: you saw them doing Angel Water and you know what
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: I mean? And it was more their individual lives, but
• 49:15
  Speaker 5: maybe the women would like kind of know each other,
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: but they didn't have like conflict with each other. It
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: was more like we're inside their home seeing what their
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: life is like yeah that's what i think the difference
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: is and i don't know that it could ever get
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: back to that.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Well these are guilty pleasure type shows to begin with
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: but you're right when you all you see is drama
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: drama drama It's like you've eaten one too many chocolates. Yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: You kind of feel sick to your stomach.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: When we were doing the show, the recipe was really
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: balanced in showcasing them as a mom, as a wife,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: as a business person. And then they would get together
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: with these women. And then, of course, you would need
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: a little bit of drama and a little bit of comedy.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's what was so fun about
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: the Tres Amigas when they would get a little tipsy
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: and it would be fun to like laugh with them.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Now, especially on a show like Salt Lake City Housewives,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: where it's just like the screaming, like the pitch of
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: the scream.
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: It's hard to digest that when it's just constant, constant drama.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: So with her.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Here's what I would say about Jen Shaw. And I
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: hear you once all this stuff came out, I was like,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: absolutely not. But I actually liked her as a character.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: And here's why. She was the anchor of that show.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: She was the one that they're all vying now on
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: the current season to be the head bitch in charge.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: And I don't see it from anyone, really, other than
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Mary Cosby. Because for me, she's the comedic genius. I
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: don't think they use her enough. But I don't know.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: I would love to see Jen back on the show
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: just to see what that would elicit. But it sounds
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: like Andy's been pretty clear that she is not coming back.
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: Why do you think they're so against it when they've
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: had so many criminals on the show as it is?
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: And she actually did her time.
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: I mean, and if Karen Huger of Potomac, after her
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: fourth DUI, actually went and did her time and came
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: back and got a standing ovation at BravoCon and people
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: were like, yeah, because she did her time and we
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: love her.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: Like, well, then why? Why not?
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, why single Jen out? Because she I mean,
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Teresa went to jail. Right.
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: I think also with Karen Huger, like she only heard
• 51:36
  Speaker 5: a tree and herself. And even with Shannon Bedore, Archie
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: was OK.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: She hit a curb.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: Like with this, they were real victims. So no one died.
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: They were real victims.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: Though it's a little of a complicated thing to follow,
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: which is why the audience then loses interest and they
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: would forgive her if she came back.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if she made her way
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: back onto the show as much as they keep protesting
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: that she is absolutely not coming back to the show.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Because here's the thing. What part of the reality is
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: going to be censored? And for what reason? You just
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: said all these other women have gone to jail and
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: have done all these really bad things as well. yes,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: she did something bad, but let's hear why. We never
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: got to hear Jen's side of the story. And so
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: wouldn't you want it to be from a Bravo show
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: where she was able to finally tell her story and
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: redeem herself? She did her time. She's paying restitution to
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: these people. Listen, I don't agree with what she did
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: at all. It's horrible. But when we're talking strictly from
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: a cast perspective, imagine her walking into I already have
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: it in my mind. She would meet Heather and then
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Heather would Heather Gay. Heather Gay. And then they would
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: do a surprise like dinner where Jen would show up.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Imagine what that would look like on that show. I
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: think it would be genius.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, I agree. Do you think she'll do Dancing with
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: the Stars?
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: She's going to do something.
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: I think it'll be the villain like villains first, which
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: I don't even think is that big of a hit.
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: So maybe she should hold out for traitors.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And then.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: And then maybe something.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think dancing would bring her on until somebody...
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Somebody's got to be the first to do it. That's
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: why I don't know why Bravo wouldn't bring her on.
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Or at least do a sit-down interview with her and
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: let her tell her side of the story. We never
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: really heard it from her perspective.
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: This is what she has to say. She has to say,
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: I compartmentalized it. And I told myself... that what we
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: were doing was not going to hurt anyone's life and
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: we were giving them hope and I just did not
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: think it was a big deal because also what they
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: were taking was not millions, but to someone it was
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: a big deal. So for some people it was like $ 3, 000,
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: for other people it was $ 35, 000, but there were so
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: many of them. So I think to her what she
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: could say is, To me, because I lived a privileged life,
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: I felt like we were just scraping off from a
• 54:21
  Speaker 5: lot of people.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: And in the process, I was making the people.
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: That were stealing from the poor people a better life.
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: And I know that's absolutely horrible, but I got rolled
• 54:32
  Speaker 5: up in it. And she could also say, and I
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: was supporting the whole Polynesian cultural center or whatever it was.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: And like, I don't know. She needs to come up.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: She had two years to come up with it.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: So she's got to come up with it where she
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: takes responsibility. But then she also says how she was
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: able to wake up every morning and continue to do it.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: And even then, a lot of people will still despise her.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: But at least she'll open the door to sort of,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: you know, make amends. Right.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: Okay. So what do you think about Wendy? Dr.
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: Wendy and Happy Eddie, they apparently they wanted to separate
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: their cases and the judge said no. And so, I mean,
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: I would think the reason you want to separate your
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: cases is just hope that one could blame the other
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: or maybe they had a plan where Eddie would take
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: the fall and she could be with the kids. But
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: it seems pretty clear that they were 100 percent in
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: it together from what the evidence that's out there. So
• 55:29
  Speaker 5: the judge is like, no.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I think your point about him taking the
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: fall so that she could be at home with the
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: kids is that that makes the most sense. Yeah. I
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: don't know. I don't think it looks good for these two.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: I think they're definitely going to do some time.
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: Definitely.
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: I just don't think you go this route unless you
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: even the little bit that we've seen is like done.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: You know what you were doing, though.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: They knew what they were doing. The neighbors knew what
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: they were doing. The streets knew what they were doing.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: I just wonder if with all her four degrees.
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: If she's going to go another route of the pressure
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: of being on this show, to look a certain way,
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: throw the parties, do all this. I was a professor.
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: We don't make a lot of money. When I'm on,
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: you know, CNN as a talking head, it's for free.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: You guys didn't pay me a lot. It's your fault, Bravo,
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: that we had to do this. And not that she would,
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: maybe she could sue.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Who knows?
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: Anyone can sue. But, like, Will, because he's an attorney,
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: so just watch.
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: Something's going to happen where it's going to be that
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: blame is going to be completely shifted on we had
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: to do this.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: To keep up.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: 100%. But here's the argument against that. Right. She's got
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: four degrees. She's a smart cookie.
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: Well, this is why people say higher education doesn't matter anymore.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: She knew what she was doing.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, sure she knew.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: They knew what they were doing.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: That's what she's going to say. I knew what I
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: was doing, but I had to do it.
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: I had to do it, and I didn't think, again,
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: stealing from an insurance company per se when we've paid
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: this much a month, I didn't think it was that
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: terrible of a crime. And I think, again, some people
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: sitting at home might be like, yeah, you didn't kill anybody.
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: You didn't molest a kid. You know, okay. But just,
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: I mean, I disagree. I think they're awful. I hate
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: this kind of stuff.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Teresa signed those papers that her husband put in front
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: of her and she went to jail. And so what
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: was her, you know, I, I just don't see any,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: she can try to sue. She can try to spin
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: it any way.
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: She's just not as likable as a Teresa too.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: No, she's not. She's not.
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: Um, when, so when we're, let's go back to Salt
• 57:49
  Speaker 5: Lake real quick. So what, um, so you say you
• 57:54
  Speaker 5: love Mary cause she's funny.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 57:56
  Speaker 5: Um, How do you feel about Whitney and her husband, Justin?
• 58:00
  Speaker 5: A lot of people think they're the next to break
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: up and get divorced.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: They are literally hanging on by a thread. And I
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if not this season, then next season
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: they go down because the scene on this past week's episode,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: he is so guilty. I mean, again, I go back
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: to The Camera Never Lies and you can see even
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: though he's not saying anything, his body language is like guilt, guilt, guilt.
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: Guilt for how he screwed up the business or whatever?
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: How he screwed up the business and whatever he took
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: from the business.
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: And I think she's trying to hold it together for
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: the kids. I, yeah, I think whatever this beauty line is,
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: I don't really understand it. I don't know if she
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: just like white labeled it, but because she had a name,
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: Sephora was, could have been excited. He took her to
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: the MLM route. It went nowhere because she's not, You know,
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: she's not a dermatologist.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: She's not, I don't know.
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: I think it's very hard for these people to sell products.
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: We had Shanna Bedore's lemon pants and her sphincter or
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: whatever it was, her frozen fish.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Sonia's toaster oven.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: Toaster oven, candles, things like that.
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: The only one that's really made it work is Lisa
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: Vanderpump because she already was a restaurateur. And she already
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: had successful things.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: And Bethany Frankel. I mean, I think she knew the
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: assignment better than anyone she had. in her head what
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: she wanted to use this platform for, and she super succeeded.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: And if you don't know, she'll tell you.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, she'll tell you. But I think going back to Whitney,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: it proves my point about the essence of these shows,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: and I think because we haven't really seen her with
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: her kids, being a mom, that it's almost like... Whitney,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: you mean?
• 59:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to invest... In like feeling empathy
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: for her with Jason because I think— I'm sorry, Justin.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: When you see them mothering and being a mom, there's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: something a little bit more forgiving that you want to
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: lean into.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 5: I always feel really badly for Brandi Glanville because her husband, Eddie,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 5: wouldn't let the boys be on the show.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 5: And she was always like, no one's seeing me like
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: cook with them and do all these things. So it's
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: just me, dating guys, being drunk, whatever. And yeah, you
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: kind of and same, you know, same with Tamara when
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: they she couldn't have the kids on all those years.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: You get to see the softer side. And I think
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: you can relate to them a little bit more when
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: you see them as. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 5: So but I mean, it is very entertaining. Lisa Barlow.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 5: What do you think her deal is? Does she have
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: these businesses or not?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: What's up with it?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: I think she has probably some of her businesses, but
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: there's another marriage that is a real trouble. Yeah. I,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: and her husband looks like deer in headlights. Right. And
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: I feel for him, but I think he's finally trying
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: to grab his voice on some level, but she, she's
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: a piece of work.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: Well, I saw the four of them together, Meredith, Seth,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: and Lisa and John, and they were all together and
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: it looked like they were having fun. So hopefully they're
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: not going to let this like end their family and
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: their marriage, but like, And then Bronwyn and Todd. I mean,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: that has got to go.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: So I actually didn't really care for Bronwyn in the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: beginning because I felt like every time she came out,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: she was wearing couture or the couture was wearing her.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: Or the blow-up costumes.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just got one note.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: How annoyed was he? He was like, oh, we have
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: to film at the airport again.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Again?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: I just got off a 10-hour flight and I have
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: to be like, oh, what are you today?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: A sloth?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: All right, let's deflate you before we get in the car.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's my point about he's, he doesn't.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: Do you really think she did that before the show aired?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 6: No.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: Neither do I.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: And not all the time.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 5: Do I really think every week she's coming in a different,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 5: when he doesn't love it, he's like, hi.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: Like, she's like, he loves it. Todd loves it when
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: I dress up and do it. He doesn't love it.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: No, he doesn't love it.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: He probably would be just fine hopping in an Uber
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: and you're not even picking him up.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Like how gross is it to imagine that man kissing
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: some girl while he's farting? Like the whole story just
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: like if I was the producer on that show, I
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: would have such a tough time with like dealing with
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: a man like that. Like imagine what my job was like, Heather,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: when I would not only have to produce the women
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: and their children. Yeah. But then I had the element
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: of the husbands. That was not fun. The one I
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: would say that I really respected the most was Don
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Gumbelson and Slade because they were just respectful people and
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: they understood the process of being on a TV show
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: and they understood their roles. Some of these husbands come
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: on and it's like they can't give their wife the spotlight.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Just step behind them. This is your wife's time to shine.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: You know, with the exception of Joe Gorga, because we
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: all love him, right? We all feel like he's a housewife,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: which is, I think, a big reason why they keep
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Melissa on the show is because they get Joe. So
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: they get two for the price of one.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: So true.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: Going back to what I was going to say about
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: housewives when you had it, the infamous scene of when
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: Tamara and Simon's marriage, where she just had fucking had
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: it in the limo, where she's like, you're a fucking asshole.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: I'm going to divorce you.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: And he was just like, you said you'd go bowling
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: with the kids. And she's like, I had an event
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: with Vicky, which I think without breaking the fourth wall,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: it was probably something housewives related.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: And again, he was like resentful that she was not only,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: you know, becoming a star and being on TV, but
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: you know, that she wanted to do these things.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: So I was there that morning. That was our, our,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: the day of our final party, the, the finale and,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: And he was just being a dick to her. He
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: didn't like the outfit she had that she was going
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: to put on. The bickering had gone beyond just the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: normal bickering because he was so controlling for her. But
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: I noticed a change in her. Her tone back to him,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: because she used to cover for him a lot on camera.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: She would play the doting wife. And then when the
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: cameras were off, they'd have their fights or whatever. But
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: on this particular day, I just remember it. And my
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: whole being was like, we got to follow this because
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: something's going to go down in the limo. So I
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: threw a producer and a camera in their limo ride.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Because normally you wouldn't. Well, back then I only had
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: a certain amount of cameras. So I had to follow
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: where I thought the action was or where the story
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: was taking us. So we'd shoot a little with this
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: one and then the camera would move and go shoot
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: a little of this one. when we used to shoot
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: them getting ready for these events. Cause you would always
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: get some gold moments in those, in those moments. So,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: but I knew there was something here. So I had
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: the producer and the camera guy get in the car
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: with them. And as soon as the producer came and
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: he grabbed me and he's like, Oh my God, she
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: just asked Simon for a divorce. So all the cameras
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: now we're following that story. Um, but those are those moments,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: like as a producer, uh, I am an intuitive, so
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: I am an intuitive producer. So I would go with
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: what my gut and what my feelings were. And I
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: just knew that that was coming. But that was like
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: one of the most iconic moments that season.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: It was because it's just like you just you felt
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: it and you knew it. And now you so you
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 5: weren't there when she was that she was the first
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: housewife to do a bathtub scene.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, no. With Eddie.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: Were you there for the bathtub with Eddie?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: So let me just clear something up for all of
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: those people who wonder if Eddie's gay. Eddie is not gay.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 5: I don't wonder it. I don't know where this— I've
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 5: been saying this from the very beginning. I'm like, do
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 5: you know how much easier Eddie's life could have been
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 5: if he was gay?
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: If Eddie was gay, A, he would be gay. 100%.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: And B, do you really think someone like Tamara would
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: be married to a guy that was gay? Absolutely not.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: Tamara wanted to do something romantic to introduce Eddie to
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: the audience. He was so nervous. And I didn't blame him.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was his first time really being on camera.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: So I did a shot of tequila with him as
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: he was doing push-ups, getting ready for that scene. But
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: that scene was all... I know people think it was
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: kind of cringe and maybe it was, but that's what
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: she wanted to do. Right.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 5: Well, then following it was in Salt Lake was when
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 5: Whitney and Justin did the roll around painting or whatever
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 5: it was. What do you call that thing where you
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 5: do the hands on the spots?
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: What do you call that?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: Where it's like all the circles. Anyway, it was like that.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 5: And allegedly that's, or not allegedly, I think she said it,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: that's how he lost his executive position at whatever MLM
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 5: he was working at.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: Which is ridiculous. And so, yeah, where does that come up?
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: How does a producer convince somebody to get in their
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 5: underwear and do a sexy paint scene?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Well, it has, here's the thing. The stories originate from
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: the women.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: So we, that's, we constantly.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: She must have said we did that.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Or this is something we do to sort of
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: like show our love for each other or our sexy
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: time or whatever it was. Yeah. Like for the bathtub scene,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: Tamara wanted to do something really romantic for Eddie and that,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: she came up with that. We didn't come up with that. Yeah.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: Because anytime we would try to come up with a story,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't be organic. Right.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: And that was something that Bravo was really, they wanted
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: it to be as authentic and organic as possible. So
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: we would make stories out of what they would come
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: and give to us.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Right? It always originated with the women. When I was
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: producing the show, now I see elements of stuff that
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure is so organic. Right.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: I definitely think it's changed since you've done it.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 5: And I think a lot of the stuff with the
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: costumes and whatnot- every party being like a costume-related party,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: which does make for a more entertaining scene when they're
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 5: wearing George Washington wigs and things like that, so I
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 5: kind of get it. Like if she, you know why
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 5: someone would be like, Oh, you know, it could be
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 5: fun if you did this kind of a theme or whatever.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 5: I mean, in real life, no women get together at
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: the four seasons and they have lunch.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: Nobody's doing costumes, but, um, wait, I wanted to.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 5: Talk about before we go back to the last thing is,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: Then you left OC because you had an opportunity to
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: either produce Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or Real Housewives
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 5: of Miami. And do you think this was one of
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 5: your worst decisions in your life that you chose Miami?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, Heather.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 5: Well, guess what, guys? Jack did answer that question. And
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 5: then we got into a lot of things that are
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: just too juicy for the regular show. So you got
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: to go over and enjoy my Friday Patreon to hear
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 5: the rest of this interview. Thank you so much. And
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: you go to heathermcdoll.net to get that. And now, Jack,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 5: tell us where they can get more of you and
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: everything that you talk about on TikTok.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: So my TikTok is new. It just started like a
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: month ago. And it's at Tarantino Files. And, you know,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: I started it because of all the shows I've produced, Heather,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: the ones that I get asked about all the time
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: still to this day are The Housewives. Right. because of,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: you know, how big they are. And so people are,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: are just really curious about, you know, how these shows
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: work and what they're like. And I feel like I
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: have a, a, a rare point of view because I've
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: also been a network executive. Like I was an executive,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: it's the style network. And I was an executive at
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: TLC for a long time. So I feel like I
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: have that cross, um, experience of being both in the
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: field making television and then being the ones that sort
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: of buy the shows. And I just, I love it.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, when I first met my husband, he didn't
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: watch any of the shows. And can I tell you,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: when we watch the show, I can't get him to
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: shut up. Now when you watch new episodes. And I
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: have to stop the show because I'm like, listen, I
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: have to talk about this show on my TikTok tomorrow.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: And I can't hear what they're saying because you're so
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: invested in it. Right. So now he's a huge fan
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: of it as well. So yeah, so I started the
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: TikTok about a month ago and I'm having a blast.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: It's so much fun. Oh, good.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm so glad you came. You'll have to come back.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: I'll come back.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 5: Maybe like when there's like a... In a couple weeks
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 5: with the reunions and stuff like that. Or Beverly Hills.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: Let's talk Beverly Hills next time you come.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: And everything else.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 5: And so, everybody, thank you so much. Go to heathermcdonald.net.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 5: Join my Patreon.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: Love you.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: Bye.
• 1:11:41
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