Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #387 Why Do Some Kids Thrive Despite Adversity?

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#387 Why Do Some Kids Thrive Despite Adversity? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.
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Speaker 2: Now, the one third who thrived, the one third who
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Speaker 2: rows above their circumstances, had one significant, supportive, stable adult
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Speaker 2: in their lives.
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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My Mum
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Speaker 1: and Dad.
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Speaker 2: Today a really big topic on The Happy Family's podcast
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Speaker 2: talking about why some kids thrive despite adversity when life
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Speaker 2: is tough. Why is it that some kids are strong
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Speaker 2: They kind of stand tall and say come on, life,
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Speaker 2: try me, and others crouch in the corner and grab
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Speaker 2: the blanky and say why me glad? This is doctor
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Speaker 2: Justin Courslin here with Kylie, my wife and mum to
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Speaker 2: our six kids and pretty excited Kylie. Tonight, it's the
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Speaker 2: night Parental Guidance hits Channel nine as we investigate parenting
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Speaker 2: styles of ten families in the country and look at
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Speaker 2: who has the best parenting style.
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Speaker 3: It's the biggest responsibility of our lives. We want our
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Speaker 3: children to be the good in the world.
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Speaker 2: Raising a child, but how do you know, think about
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Speaker 2: the happiest time in your name?
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Speaker 3: You're doing it right?
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Speaker 4: Are you gonna watch it with us?
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Speaker 2: Am I gonna watch it with you? Yes, I can't wait.
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Speaker 2: I'm actually looking forward to seeing the kids and how
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Speaker 2: they respond to it. I think it's going to be
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Speaker 2: really exciting. Are you gonna watch it with this?
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Speaker 4: Of course, if it means I get to eat some popcorn.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, so long as we get
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Speaker 2: the popcorn going. We've got this tradition in our home
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Speaker 2: when we cook the popcorn, we do it on the
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Speaker 2: stove in some oil. We use the popcorn kernels, and
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Speaker 2: I just love taking the lid off the popcorn and
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Speaker 2: watching it pop everywhere and the kids scramble for the popcorn.
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Speaker 3: It's embarrassing, but it's fun.
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Speaker 4: Hey.
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Speaker 2: We received some pretty cool feedback the other day about
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Speaker 2: an episode that was fun, but it wasn't really well,
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Speaker 2: let's say it wasn't one of my best moments. It
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Speaker 2: wasn't a podcast where I thought.
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Speaker 3: Gee, I gave great advice. But the feedback was overwhelming.
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Speaker 4: She said, thanks so much for the podcast episode not
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Speaker 4: to what I expected.
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Speaker 2: So just in case you missed that episode, we will
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Speaker 2: link to it in the show notes. But we really
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Speaker 2: just talked about the embarrassing things that our kids do
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Speaker 2: to us, like and most of it related to toilets
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Speaker 2: and nakedness, didn't it.
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Speaker 3: I mean, that was pretty much it.
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Speaker 4: She said her family had experienced a terrifying experience two
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Speaker 4: nights before. A truck driver had taken out a utility
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Speaker 4: pole in their front yard and they had literally been
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Speaker 4: stuck inside for up to twelve hours waiting for emergency
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Speaker 4: help to come in. Wow, there was electrical wires, live wires,
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Speaker 4: you know, screaming and through the air, and it was very,
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Speaker 4: very scary. And she just said that her mind and
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Speaker 4: body had been shrunk into a state of intense stress
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Speaker 4: and tension, and she kept playing over the incidents and
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Speaker 4: what ifs and just feeling completely and utterly out of control.
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Speaker 4: But she said, on my drive home yesterday, while Kylie
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Speaker 4: told the story about the kids using their Bunder s
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Speaker 4: Wiper credit card along with the other stories, she said,
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Speaker 4: I laughed hysterically, and she said, and I finally felt
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Speaker 4: my body released those feel good chemicals and the tension
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Speaker 4: finally started to leave my body. Of what's probably seemed
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Speaker 4: like just a silly episode for you has had such
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Speaker 4: an impact on me.
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Speaker 2: Wow, Well that's so great. So we will link once
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Speaker 2: again to that because it was. I mean, there wasn't
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Speaker 2: a whole lot of parenting advice in there, but it
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Speaker 2: was done funny.
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Speaker 3: So we'll linked at that one shortly.
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Speaker 2: All Right, So we've got a question that's come through,
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Speaker 2: And normally we answer listener questions on a Tuesday, but
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Speaker 2: there's this thing happening with this TV show, and I
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Speaker 2: think that our podcast is going to be pretty pretty
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Speaker 2: busy talking about everything that's happening in parental guidance, So
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Speaker 2: we thought we'd sneak it from Tuesday into Monday.
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Speaker 3: And who asked the question? And what is it? Klote?
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Speaker 4: Amy Lee asked a great question. She said, does anyone
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Speaker 4: know why some kids thrive despite adversity? She went on
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Speaker 4: to just say she had a pretty traumatic childhood and
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Speaker 4: she has some lingering issues with anxiety and depression, but
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Speaker 4: in spite of that, she's actually been able to be
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Speaker 4: a functional member of society, a loving mum, and can
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Speaker 4: honestly say that she strives to do and be better
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Speaker 4: every day. So another family member in the same home
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Speaker 4: went through the same parenting hasn't fared as well as
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Speaker 4: she has. He's so disorganized, he struggles with anxiety and
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Speaker 4: depression and just executive function skills are really really challenging.
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Speaker 4: She worries about them all the time, and so she
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Speaker 4: just wonders why some people come out of trauma and
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Speaker 4: are an exception to the rule, and how we can
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Speaker 4: promote this in our kids.
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Speaker 2: Well, I've written a book about it called Nine Ways
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Speaker 2: to a Resilient Child. So I could probably talk about
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Speaker 2: this for the next four weeks, but obviously this is
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Speaker 2: the podcast for the time poor parent who just wants
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Speaker 2: answers now, So I reckon, there's probably let's say five things. Gosh,
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Speaker 2: I feel guilty only saying five things, but when I
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Speaker 2: think about the best research over the last let's say
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Speaker 2: five to six decades, I'm going to pick on five
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Speaker 2: things that I think will give us the biggest head
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Speaker 2: start in getting in front of this to help our
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Speaker 2: children if they're going through trying times, so that they
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Speaker 2: can be resilient and thrive despite the adversity.
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Speaker 4: It's interesting sing you think about it without trauma in
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Speaker 4: the picture. Just going to see a movie. You have
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Speaker 4: a whole heap of people in the room, and everyone
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Speaker 4: feels differently about it. So I'm wondering what your five
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Speaker 4: tips are.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So the first thing we've got to take into
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Speaker 2: account is just the personality of the child, the temperament,
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Speaker 2: and the environment. So I've said that's one thing, but
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Speaker 2: it's kind of grouping three things together all at once.
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Speaker 2: But these are kinds of These are the things that
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Speaker 2: we can't actually do very much about. They just are
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Speaker 2: what they are. Like as an individual, I can't do
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Speaker 2: much about my personality. Personality traits are fairly stable across time.
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Speaker 2: They don't change a whole lot like we do change
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Speaker 2: throughout our lives. But we're pretty stable. And it's the
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Speaker 2: same with our temperament. You might be a difficult person,
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Speaker 2: or you might be a slow to warm up personal
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Speaker 2: or you might be a really easy going person. Those
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Speaker 2: personality and temperament aspects, they're just there and everybody's different.
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Speaker 2: So Amy Lee might be a really easy going temperament
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Speaker 2: or a slightly anxious, slow to warm up temperament, whereas
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Speaker 2: the other person that she mentioned might just be one
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Speaker 2: of those difficult kind of people, or maybe somebody's a
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Speaker 2: little bit more neurotic than the other And that's just
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Speaker 2: a personality.
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Speaker 3: It's literally kind of the way they are from a
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Speaker 3: personality point of view.
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Speaker 2: And the third thing that I mentioned as part of
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Speaker 2: this first idea is just the environment. Like there are
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Speaker 2: some things that you can't control about your environment. For example,
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Speaker 2: you can't control whether you're born into a wealthy, democratic
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Speaker 2: country or whether you're born into a totalitarian governed country
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Speaker 2: that is in poverty. Like, you just can't control everything
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Speaker 2: in your environment. As a kid, you go to the
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Speaker 2: school that your parents send you to, or you live
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Speaker 2: in the house or the neighborhood or the suburb that
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Speaker 2: your parents live in, full stop and a story.
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Speaker 4: And yet time and time again you hear these stories though,
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Speaker 4: of people who are in just the most depraved situations. Yeah,
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Speaker 4: you rise above it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right.
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Speaker 2: So I love that example, and it reminds me of
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Speaker 2: a research paper, in fact, a research project that ended
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Speaker 2: up lasting forty years by a research called Emmy Werner,
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Speaker 2: one of the original big time resilience researchers, And what
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Speaker 2: she found was that people who were born into these
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Speaker 2: indigent circumstances, about two thirds of them, they kind of
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Speaker 2: just repeat the sins of their parents, if I can
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Speaker 2: use that sort of old fashioned term. Whatever happen was
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Speaker 2: under them, they just kept on doing to the next generation.
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Speaker 2: But about one third of them didn't. And so that's
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Speaker 2: why I put that first, because the environment, the personality
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Speaker 2: of the temperament, that's all kind of stuff that you
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Speaker 2: can't do a whole lot about.
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Speaker 3: It just is what it is.
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Speaker 2: But the next four things that I'm going to mention,
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Speaker 2: they all came out of her research, and more and
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Speaker 2: more data supports what she found. And the first of
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Speaker 2: those four is the kids, the one third who thrived,
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Speaker 2: the one third who, like you said, rows above their circumstances,
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Speaker 2: had one significant, supportive, stable adult in their lives. Sometimes
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Speaker 2: it was their parent, but sometimes it wasn't because the
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Speaker 2: parents were in jail, or the parents were alcohol or
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Speaker 2: other drug users and abuses, or the dad wasn't there,
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Speaker 2: and there was just a steady stream of different men
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Speaker 2: coming through the house.
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Speaker 3: So it wasn't always a parent.
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Speaker 2: Sometimes it was a school teacher or a grandma, or
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Speaker 2: an aunty, or an uncle, or a neighbor, or a
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Speaker 2: Scout leader or a church pastor or whatever it might be.
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Speaker 2: But one supportive, stable adult who was always there. There's
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Speaker 2: something extraordinary about having that in your background to help
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Speaker 2: you to get through hard things.
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Speaker 4: Does the research suggest that that one person has to
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Speaker 4: be constant throughout their life.
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Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be one person constant, but the
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Speaker 2: more stability there is, the better. You don't want to
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Speaker 2: have somebody there for a week and then somebody else
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Speaker 2: for a week. Of course that's going to promote instability.
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Speaker 4: But yeah, I think back over my life and while
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Speaker 4: I didn't necessarily have someone throughout my whole childhood, there
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Speaker 4: was always one adult outside of my family that was
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Speaker 4: just there and they were there for four or five years,
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Speaker 4: and then I kind of went on to my next
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Speaker 4: season or we moved house and there was another adult
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Speaker 4: that I looked up to, and I just it made
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Speaker 4: such a difference to have multiple people in my life
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Speaker 4: that I could look up to and glean from.
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Speaker 2: So that's the number one, like that is the most
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Speaker 2: important factor when it comes to helping people to thrive
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Speaker 2: despite adversity. The second one I'm going to mention after
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Speaker 2: the break.
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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Famili's podcast.
9:12
Speaker 4: For a happier family, Try a Happy Families membership, because
9:16
Speaker 4: a happy family doesn't just happen.
9:18
Speaker 3: Details at happy families dot com dot au.
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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now and today we
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Speaker 4: are answering Amy's question, why do some kids thrive despite adversity?
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Speaker 2: So we've covered off how sometimes it's related to personality
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Speaker 2: and temper and environment temperament, I should say, an environment,
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Speaker 2: but also the presence of one stable, supportive, secure adult
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Speaker 2: who's right there. I know as I was reflecting on that,
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Speaker 2: just when we took that pause for a moment, for
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Speaker 2: the break, and I was thinking many of the things
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Speaker 2: that we've done in our lives, the risks that we've taken,
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Speaker 2: the chances that we've decided to have a go with,
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Speaker 2: we've only don because we've always known that in the background,
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Speaker 2: somebody was there as a support. Somebody was there saying
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Speaker 2: I believe in you. Somebody was there saying I think
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Speaker 2: you can do this. Somebody that we could counsel with
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Speaker 2: or lean on the power of that one support of
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Speaker 2: adults just so important. I can't emphasize it enough.
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Speaker 4: And I don't think it changes even as we grow older.
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Speaker 4: I don't think it's a child thing. I think that
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Speaker 4: as we go throughout life, feeling like we've got that village,
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Speaker 4: feeling like we've got that one person or a handful
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Speaker 4: of people who are just there rallying behind us and
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Speaker 4: supporting us in everything we do.
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Speaker 2: We celebrate independence and we try to raise our kids
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Speaker 2: to be independent. That's what our culture does, but I
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Speaker 2: don't think it's actually healthy. We really want interdependence. We
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Speaker 2: want to learn how to do what we need to
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Speaker 2: on our own, because it's good to be able to
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Speaker 2: be self sufficient. But relying on other people and bringing
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Speaker 2: the community together, our community of loved ones, friends, neighbors,
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Speaker 2: whoever it might.
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Speaker 3: Be, that that helps us to be.
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Speaker 2: So much more resilient. We need people so that we
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Speaker 2: can thrive. The third one a sense of mastery over life.
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Speaker 2: Emmy Wo and her research team and others since then
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Speaker 2: have found that when we feel like we are able
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Speaker 2: to grapple with the challenges that come our way, when
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Speaker 2: we feel like, yeah, it's big and it's coming at me,
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Speaker 2: but I know that if I grab that bull by
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Speaker 2: the horns and wrestle it, I'm going to be able
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Speaker 2: to roll it over and win. I don't know why
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Speaker 2: it suddenly became a bull in my metaphor, but whatever
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Speaker 2: it is, there's big challenge that's coming at us. If
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Speaker 2: we can grab it and roll it over and get
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Speaker 2: on top of it and conquer it. A sense of mastery,
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Speaker 2: a sense of capability, a sense of competence is critical.
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Speaker 2: And when we feel like it's too big, it's coming
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Speaker 2: too fast, there's just overwhelm. I don't have the competence,
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Speaker 2: I don't have the ability to master this. That's when
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Speaker 2: resilience plummets and we see our children struggle under the
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Speaker 2: adverse experiences that they encounter in childhood.
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Speaker 4: So how do we actually help our children feel like
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Speaker 4: they have that competence.
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Speaker 2: We expose them to challenges and don't helicopter We don't
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Speaker 2: swoop in and say, oh, that's too hard, or that's
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Speaker 2: too dangerous, or that's too risky. We let them develop
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Speaker 2: a sense of what's risky and what's hard and what's challenging,
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Speaker 2: and then we gently support them. Remember that first one
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Speaker 2: one stable, supportive adult who's there. When we see our
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Speaker 2: child struggle, we walk over to them and we pick
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Speaker 2: them up and give them a hug and say that
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Speaker 2: was really hard, wasn't it.
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Speaker 3: Let's try again.
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Speaker 2: We don't have to do that for everything all the time,
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Speaker 2: but as they encounter difficulties at the age of two
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Speaker 2: and learn how to conquer them. They're more equipped and
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Speaker 2: capable of conquering bigger challenges. At the age of three
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Speaker 2: or four and five and six, when we do too
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Speaker 2: much for them, they don't get that sense of mastery.
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Speaker 2: They become dependent. And it's like the child who never
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Speaker 2: gets to walk. They don't develop the leg muscles to
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Speaker 2: support their body as the body grows, and they won't
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Speaker 2: be able to use their body healthily.
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Speaker 4: I remember one day taking the kids to a rock
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Speaker 4: climbing facility and there was a small a smaller area
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Speaker 4: where toddlers could have a go at the climb wall,
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Speaker 4: and I remembered watching this parent with this small little
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Speaker 4: toddler who was trying to navigate the wall and was
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Speaker 4: really really struggling with it. And sometimes our desire is
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Speaker 4: to just put their foot in the next safehold to
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Speaker 4: show them how to do it. And yet I watched
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Speaker 4: this parent just that were close by, but they just
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Speaker 4: let their child work it out, and it took five
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Speaker 4: or six attempts to kind of work out where their
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Speaker 4: next foot needed to go before they could move up
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Speaker 4: a little bit. And it was so amazing to watch
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Speaker 4: because the elation on this kid's face as he kind
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Speaker 4: of went I just did. That was so exciting.
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Speaker 2: So we've got the personality, the temperament, the environment. Then
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Speaker 2: we've got the power of the relationship. We've got a
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Speaker 2: sense of mastery. The last two strong executive function and
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Speaker 2: self regulation, the ability to pause, be in the moment,
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Speaker 2: think things through, inhibit behavior, act when we need to.
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Speaker 2: That's something that develops over time, and it usually in
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Speaker 2: harmony with those other things, but it's crucial to help
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Speaker 2: us to thrive despite adversity. And in Amy's email to us,
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Speaker 2: she highlighted that that other family member just really seemed
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Speaker 2: to struggle with executive function and self regulation and Amy
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Speaker 2: Warness research and that of many other researchers since has
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Speaker 2: shown that it's critical for resilience and the last one
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Speaker 2: supportive context of affirming faith or cultural traditions. So this
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Speaker 2: research began in the nineteen fifties and went through the
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Speaker 2: nineteen nineties, and right at the very heart of all
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Speaker 2: of this was this sense of community, this bond that
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Speaker 2: came through shared faith traditions or shared cultural traditions. What
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Speaker 2: we've seen increasingly over the last ten to twenty years,
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Speaker 2: particularly in Australia, is a real move away from faith
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Speaker 2: traditions and a move away from cultural traditions.
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Speaker 3: It seems that it's.
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Speaker 2: Good to celebrate certain cultural traditions, but many people are
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Speaker 2: trying to become homogenized, and there's a move away from
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Speaker 2: the very things that used to unite people. The ceremony,
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Speaker 2: the tradition, the sense that we all go and participate
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Speaker 2: in this stuff together and we all learn and grow
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Speaker 2: through it.
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Speaker 3: And yet that's critically important for resilience.
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Speaker 2: It helps people to develop a sense of identity and
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Speaker 2: knowledge of who they are. And as I reflect on
15:09
Speaker 2: these things, I can't help but think of my favorite
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Speaker 2: psychology theory and how much it blends into all of this.
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Speaker 2: If you want your kids to thrive despite adversity, they
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Speaker 2: need to have great relationships. They need to have a
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Speaker 2: sense of competence and mastery and a feeling that they're
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Speaker 2: in control, like they can control things. They've got autonomy relatedness.
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Speaker 2: Competence and autonomy fit in so well with having a supportive,
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Speaker 2: stable adult, a sense of mastery over life, and strong
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Speaker 2: executive function and self regulation. You throw in that sense
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Speaker 2: of community and that last one, and you've got the
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Speaker 2: recipe to help children overcome adverse childhood experiences and with
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Speaker 2: a thriving, resilient life amily.
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Speaker 4: I hope that that answers your question.
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Speaker 2: We really hope that you've enjoyed the podcast and that's
15:51
Speaker 2: helpful for you as you try to raise resilient, happy kids.
15:53
Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhlan from
15:56
Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Tonight's The
15:59
Speaker 2: Night A quick reminder parental guidance Channel nine for our
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Speaker 2: Australian audience seven point thirty PM. Let's watch these parenting
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Speaker 2: styles in action and see if we can discover Australia's
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Speaker 2: best parenting style. I can't wait to see you on
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Speaker 2: the Telly. Have a great day, and if you'd like
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Speaker 2: more info about making your family happy, visit happy families
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