Latest / Connect Call / EP02 – Unseen Wounds: Mental Health After Trauma with Nicole Cook

Transcript

EP02 – Unseen Wounds: Mental Health After Trauma with Nicole Cook · Connect Call

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode of Connect Call discusses school shootings and may be distressing.
0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Listener discretion is advised.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're struggling, support is available.
0:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Please consider reaching out to a trusted person or a local crisis resource.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, this is Hannah Brett, what can I call?
0:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And tonight's episode is actually very near and dear to my heart in many ways.
0:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I've expressed this before, but one of the many reasons why I wanted to do this podcast and why I continue to do the work I do is also
0:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Forget about my professional career for 18 years in this treatment world, me myself and I, you know, got sober a long time ago and also part of that.
0:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I've also struggled over the years with my own mental health.
0:49
[SPEAKER_01]: As we know, all that addiction really is is trauma and mental health
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: 2016, 2017, my depression was taking a major dump.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason why, you know, again, going back to why I wanted to do this podcast is, you know, not only to say me too, but also I know how difficult it is to find resources.
1:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I know how difficult it is to advocate for yourself.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: even someone like me in the industry and I not only want to be an inspiration for people to ask for help but also you know talk about a lot of the services that I may be tried or that our out there that we can recommend to people out there from people who've actually walked the walk you know um so my depression came back around 2016 and it was really bad 2017
1:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking it was just going to, you know, maybe it was something to do with my, you know, time of the month or something.
1:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I didn't know what where it was coming from, but it was debilitating the only way I could describe it to people was kind of like what I witnessed on TV with postpartum depression.
2:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't homicidal, but I definitely was suicidal.
2:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had suicidal ideation.
2:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a really dark place.
2:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at a point where I wasn't really by 2018 when the episodes would come.
2:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I would sleep all day.
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't really bathe.
2:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really difficult to eat.
2:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought I was gonna be feeling like this for the rest of my life.
2:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was slowly asking for help a little bit, but really just felt very hopeless.
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a really dark time.
2:36
[SPEAKER_01]: There was the day was February 14th and 2018.
2:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I remember of that day,
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: was I was laying on the couch again really, really depressed.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was hearing in the background unfortunately another shooting was occurring, another tragedy was happening in our country, another school was being affected.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But I really wasn't listening to a lot of the details.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What I did here in the background was more a family member of mine who was about 14, 15 at the time
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: who were in one of those classrooms in Parkland.
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Mind you, I talk about this and I'm also trying to be super careful and also loving about talking about this because I don't want to trigger anybody out there.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to bring people back to any bad memories, but it was the shooting that happened to Parkland and what I do remember is he was friends with these two little girls.
3:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the end of the day,
3:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I unfortunately found out like the rest of you, one of these little girls was one of the 17 victims who passed away and what I found out from talking to that family members, you know, they were in class together sitting next to each other and I remember finding out what her name was and in my head, I remember I just was ruminating about this young this little girl that I'd never met who survived, but unfortunately had to go through.
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: one of the probably most traumatic tragedies to experience something like that.
4:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember thinking, if this 14-year-old can get up tomorrow and just have breakfast and breathe and start her day, I definitely can get off the couch.
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And it did something for me where I just kept envisioning
4:43
[SPEAKER_01]: what she must have been going through.
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like if she can ask for help, I can ask for help.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And what ended up happening through that journey afterwards was two things.
4:55
[SPEAKER_01]: One, I asked for help for my depression.
4:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was really active in getting better.
5:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing is, God gave me a voice to use.
5:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I definitely am my mother's daughter and I'm very much an advocate for
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have children, but I am basically for those children out there that don't have a voice I like to say that I am their voice, and so what I tried to do was do a lot of homework and looking into what resources were being offered for mental health for the community.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: and I was hitting a lot of walls.
5:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really frustrating.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't really getting very far, but I really wanted to help.
5:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I really wanted to help.
5:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I even was trying to plan, you know, support groups in the community with some resources I could bring of amazing therapists.
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things I was able to offer as well was there's a foundation out there on site foundation who had started a one week intensive for those who from tragedy to triumph adults who had been victims or survivors of this type of tragedy and I had offered to the foundation that let me be the advocate call for adolescents.
6:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you get any kids calling adolescence calling, or just anybody looking to for treatment and needed someone to kind of fight the good fight for them, please have them call me.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was doing that.
6:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to, with cases that were coming to me, I would call all these treatment centers and be like, can we do a scholarship?
6:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you give any funding?
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: These kids deserve it.
6:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they're getting funding.
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to talk more about that.
6:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And just randomly, like a year later,
6:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I got this phone call from this amazing mom, who had gotten my number, I think, from the foundation.
6:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And she really was just looking for a second opinion for some advice.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think just to talk through a little bit about her experience, but also about, you know, her daughter at the time was able to,
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: get some funding and get a scholarship to go to a really good adolescent treatment program in the country and she'd already been there, I think for like six months and I just kept telling her to follow the clinical recommendations and this is going to be a long process.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The most amazing thing happened at the end of that call, because I asked her who her daughter was and when she said her name, it was that little girl from Parkland that I thought about from day one and we are very fortunate that today we have her mother here my guest today is Nicole Cook.
7:30
[SPEAKER_01]: and Nicole, we're so happy to have you here on my Connect call.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: A big reason why I wanted to bring Nicole on the show, and the topic I really wanted to address, because as a country, we are all being traumatized by these daily shootings.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We also, I realized over the years, and treatment that even little trauma stays with us.
7:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I really just wanted to talk to Nicole and just kind of bring awareness and some light to what really goes down after a tragedy like this unfolds I think a lot of us just assume the government comes in and takes care of everything and so Nicole, I want to say first of all thank you so much for being here.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: think about.
8:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But in all of our talks, you have just been so informative about kind of walking me through the process and how disappointed I was on how I personally feel, feel the government kind of failed and failed these kids.
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You can help other parents out there to ask for the help they need and how to go about getting it.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess one of my first questions I'm going to ask
8:55
[SPEAKER_01]: is right after the tragedy you know where you notified did anyone say these are the mental health resources offered for you know the kids at school I would think that funding would be delegated to those kids yeah what what mental health resources were kind of offered to you after the tragedy if you can walk through a little bit of that.
9:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm also going to share that at the time I was a assistant professor at public health.
9:26
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is what I do.
9:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I work in communities, local communities with people, helping them to improve access to care, not just behavioral health, but access to care in general.
9:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So consider myself fairly steady in that.
9:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So immediately afterwards, the red cross came in and set up kind of emergency, you know, station points.
9:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And we went a couple of days later so that emergency station point and woman who, I guess, was screening in the intake, asked my daughter for, you know, restory.
10:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And we got about five minutes into it and the woman started to directly crying.
10:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And she said, you need a lot of help.
10:07
[SPEAKER_04]: This is beyond me.
10:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So we left.
10:12
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you're just kind of walking around in a days, right?
10:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's just don't know how to navigate.
10:16
[SPEAKER_04]: There was so much loss.
10:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I had two daughters in the school that day between the nine new, every single person, who was killed, every single person who was injured.
10:25
[SPEAKER_04]: So many people who were psychologically injured that physically injured.
10:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So,
10:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's kind of where the problem is that in this country, we don't really recognize psychological injury from exposure to that violent.
10:40
[SPEAKER_04]: So services are not really available in that way in terms of state and I just can I.
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: just interrupt and say one thing about that, which I will always say and it drives me crazy.
10:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I can talk forever about gun reform and how our country and the adults and the administration continue to let us down.
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And the biggest victims I see on a daily are the children, whether they're doing these shooter drills at school or whether
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: unfortunately it impacts them like what's crazy to me is everyone says who doesn't agree with gun reform its mental health issue yet they're doing absolutely nothing I feel to help mental health and only continuing I mean the drills I hear are very traumatic and they're just they're all you know it's really doing damage to our kids and to everybody and and we're not being taken care of and they're not being taken care of with resources you know I think yeah I know well there's a lot of
11:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
11:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so from the victim perspective, you know, from a state perspective, there's that $5,200 that's offered for people who were exposed psychologically, who, you know, who are considered kind of a psychological victim with that physical injury, so that's the
12:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I found in total, five thousand total, that's kind of what it is.
12:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And then there was, you know, the another thousand that came in from all of the money that was collected and donated, they kind of, you know, divided it among whoever put a claim in.
12:16
[SPEAKER_04]: If you were in the building, if you were injured, if you were on school, that's why I don't know how they did it.
12:21
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean,
12:22
[SPEAKER_04]: a bigger problem.
12:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, the bigger problem is mental health care in our country, right?
12:26
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the bigger problem is that it's navigating that as impossible.
12:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Down here in Florida, specifically, there's very, very, very few resources that are covered by insurance, so it's mostly private pay.
12:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
12:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So why do you, there's just a whole bunch of issues?
12:40
[SPEAKER_04]: In, in our case, those children separately got connected by kind of good similarities, friends, whatever,
12:52
[SPEAKER_04]: 75 an hour for weekly care.
12:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So, was there support?
13:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, so at that early six months later, there was a federal grant that came through, but there was no direct money given to families.
13:10
[SPEAKER_04]: All of the grants were given directly to organizations and how those organizations were selected.
13:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I worked as well as Mr. Sam of it and it wasn't.
13:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, there were, there were a lot of services that were, I'm sorry, we're just kind of organized.
13:43
[SPEAKER_04]: that came in suddenly.
13:45
[SPEAKER_04]: So I guess there was a way that if you wanted to look like this was the big joke, the big one that got a lot of money was Henderson.
13:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Henderson's the one that treated the perpetrator.
13:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like who's going to take their kid there?
13:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I heard that.
13:57
[SPEAKER_04]: On Netflix, that really netted because it's harder to take your child there and get free services from Henderson through this grant.
14:04
[SPEAKER_04]: You had to go into the general waiting room.
14:06
[SPEAKER_04]: You had to tell your entire story to a therapist who then assessed you for services.
14:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So, and, you know, these places are scary for 14 years all.
14:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was 14 at the time.
14:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to take her into, you know, a behavioral health.
14:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a behavioral health hospital, yeah.
14:21
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a day after I'll pass, but I'll talk about that later episode.
14:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Go through the waiting room, have a meet up there, but she doesn't know how to tell the whole story all over again of what she went through, and it was so incredibly traumatic.
14:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, you described it a little bit if it was, it was a battlefield is what it was.
14:39
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a complete and utter battlefield, and these kids were in there for 20 minutes, but everything you can imagine around that.
14:45
[SPEAKER_04]: So you don't want them to have to tell their story.
14:52
[SPEAKER_04]: better in trying to help kind of allocate these resources and one of the things that I really felt strongly about was to offer virtual care and this was pre-coded, but there was never any virtual care offered.
15:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So my other daughter was a graduating senior.
15:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you think of it, like, so many of the victims were seniors, right?
15:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So many of the kids who died were victims,
15:17
[SPEAKER_04]: And there was no virtual care.
15:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So these kids literally graduated and went off.
15:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And there was nothing ever for them at all.
15:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Like there was no connection.
15:26
[SPEAKER_04]: There was no, let me see it now, because now I can see what it's here's later.
15:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Seven years later, now I can see the trauma coming up.
15:34
[SPEAKER_04]: As we know.
15:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And then let's talk about that.
15:39
[SPEAKER_04]: So someone, you know, I know we talked about this before.
15:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it was a lot of chaos, and then there was a lot of people that just came in and offered services, but there was no coordinating center, there was no organizing center, there was no validation of evidence-based practice, everybody wanted to help that mean, and so anybody who wanted to help in some way could set up a
16:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And there were a lot of helpers out there, by the way, there were a lot of helpers.
16:14
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, who were exploiting a lot of the family.
16:18
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I mean, we were told by, you know, again, again, you don't know, but here's just a very quick story.
16:27
[SPEAKER_04]: We were, my daughter was very satisfied with it.
16:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And the,
16:34
[SPEAKER_04]: the center that was eventually set up since about eight nine months later in Parklands.
16:41
[SPEAKER_04]: We had gone there numerous times.
16:42
[SPEAKER_04]: They were really against sending instrument programs, like remote treatment programs.
16:48
[SPEAKER_04]: So they suggested that I try this program.
16:50
[SPEAKER_04]: That was like a forced therapy program, eight hours, it's $800 a day.
16:54
[SPEAKER_04]: $800 a day,
16:57
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like a crazy story, but we had no options, right?
17:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you're walking around.
17:02
[SPEAKER_04]: You have no idea what to do.
17:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm being told, I'm telling my tiles away.
17:06
[SPEAKER_04]: You're telling me she wants to grab a car, I'm just right.
17:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, we do it.
17:11
[SPEAKER_04]: $100 a day.
17:14
[SPEAKER_04]: that are third day there.
17:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I get a call from the therapist.
17:17
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a woman outing to have a sworn yes.
17:19
[SPEAKER_04]: She worked with and I know I should know this but some other person who had been held under ground and then emerged and they found her like being held at kidnapped.
17:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And this woman's convention can carry my daughter in three days.
17:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So she flies across the country.
17:33
[SPEAKER_04]: He comes to the horse farm.
17:35
[SPEAKER_04]: We go to a man we have and we have our family therapy
17:40
[SPEAKER_04]: the therapist, this person from California, my daughter who's completely high myself, my husband, and this woman from California proceeds to tell us that she can take my daughter, but here's her book.
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's her book of births, and she say it, and she says, by the way, if anyone whips out a book as a mental health provider in the first meeting, you need to run and not walk.
18:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
18:03
[SPEAKER_04]: To be whips out this book, tell me she can term my daughter in three days when I should let her take care.
18:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Now keep keep in mind.
18:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a doctorate took great.
18:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I've worked in behavioral health.
18:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, tell me more, because all you want is for your child to feel better.
18:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank God.
18:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And my life took her from the podcast.
18:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you are.
18:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go.
18:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank God, my husband.
18:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks God for my husband.
18:25
[SPEAKER_04]: With like, what the fuck?
18:27
[SPEAKER_04]: You said, what the fuck?
18:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
18:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And he went from down to there.
18:31
[SPEAKER_04]: But here's an example, right?
18:33
[SPEAKER_04]: With you just don't know what you're supposed to do.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I think also I just want to speak on that because I was, you know, when I first met with couple of the families from Parkland, I remember.
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember meeting one of the moms right after.
18:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And rightfully so, she looked at me and said, who are you and what are you trying to get out of this?
19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think they had ordered and I witnessed it.
19:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I witnessed counselors who are not, I'll say it.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They were not qualified to do this traumatic work and do this trauma work and they were literally because they were licensed in Florida and lived in the neighborhood.
19:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I was hearing like they were like climbing into kids' beds because they didn't want to go to therapy.
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they were like building this rapport and it was just I'm sitting out on the outside Like with the rest of my colleagues who weren't allowed to do anything if we weren't licensed in Florida And it was just it was it was a mess and there were people really who were making a lot of money off the tragedy And you know the more recognition
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I spoke to somebody, unfortunately, who had survived a shooting a long time ago, and when I had called him to get some guidance on how I should navigate and try to advocate for kids, he literally set on the phone at the first thing.
19:53
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, how did you get my number?
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, you can see me on Sky News, BBC, CNN, MSNBC with the five today.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, who are the five?
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And these were the five children students who I think had started March for our lives and we're on the cover of Time Magazine, where they were on a cover of the magazine.
20:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Literally said that to me.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I knew right away there was a lot of people kind of
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: which is unfortunate, but also just to go back.
20:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to touch on this before I ask the next question, which we're going to lead into the next question is, you know, also a someone, and again, this is where I'm like, I don't get it.
20:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is happening at such a frequent pace.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's happening so much to these kids.
20:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm shocked.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no protocol.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no emergency team that comes in like FEMA, or you know what I mean?
20:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Or... What do you mean?
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean?
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But completely catered to the behavioral health aspect of things, meaning that my belief in some of my colleagues, we've even spoken about it, that it's insane that we haven't gotten more parents like yourself to maybe
20:59
[SPEAKER_01]: be able to sit down and say what and and pick therapists who have worked with these children, what are the what are the things we need immediately and kind of building that like emergency crew to come in and really organize and really get you guys the right help because that's what we're also seeing is a lot of people in case of you know in a haze you may you don't know who the right people are and people may take advantage and do more harm than good.
21:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I guess my
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: putting all the funding into the Henderson Behavioral Health.
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I had heard of that, and two things.
21:34
[SPEAKER_01]: One, my opinion, I truly believe the less we do of white walls and x-ic signs for kids, and treatment is better.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, we also know this just from getting the calls I do all day.
21:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Every kid, every adult, everybody who needs help with their mental health,
21:51
[SPEAKER_01]: regardless even if they're all, you know, in that same situation, there's symptoms for PTSD are going to pop up at different times in their life.
22:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They're also going to show up differently and the needs are going to be different.
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So this added, this kind of thought that we can just give every kid can to do the same type of programming and it's going to work.
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It just seems a
22:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know I just want to caveat those on to two sides.
22:25
[SPEAKER_04]: One is we didn't know what would work.
22:27
[SPEAKER_04]: People didn't know.
22:28
[SPEAKER_04]: There was no precedent for that.
22:31
[SPEAKER_04]: The only precedent for something like this was in Norway.
22:33
[SPEAKER_04]: When they had, you know, that shooting in like the 1990s at summer.
22:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
22:39
[SPEAKER_04]: There was no precedent for a man's casualty event with high schoolers.
22:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I know we had Columbine, I know we had Sandy Hook, but there was no precedent for what happened in Parkland.
22:51
[SPEAKER_04]: of knowing, which is really sad, because we should be able to mobilize, right?
22:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
22:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And you don't want something to happen.
22:57
[SPEAKER_04]: You're not going to set up a wide away.
22:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I also, you know, have spent years teaching the emergency preparedness.
23:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm having very deep understanding of these kinds of things.
23:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
23:06
[SPEAKER_04]: You can't create every single risk scenario.
23:09
[SPEAKER_04]: So there was, of course.
23:10
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
23:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, so I'm just saying, like, I'm not attending because it's completely wrong, because we obviously know we should bring in qualified people, which aren't that, right?
23:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So you didn't have a ton of people in Florida who understood how to work with kids who had been in a mass casualty of that course we don't even really have that in America.
23:33
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the first thing I just want to bring that up that I have to believe that most people's intentions were good.
23:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I agree with you that there was a boy patient and I told you my own story.
23:44
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think that the most part people's intentions were good, but they were nice.
23:49
[SPEAKER_04]: They didn't know what since they were, they didn't have the, there's no evidence around this.
23:53
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no, there was no structure.
23:55
[SPEAKER_04]: You're absolutely right.
23:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Like there was no one coordinating the school with coordinating something to Red Cross, the city, the county, children, um, gotta be a recommendation as, but there was no mean coordinator of all of this work.
24:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
24:10
[SPEAKER_04]: But I just want to put that out there.
24:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's, now you today,
24:14
[SPEAKER_04]: do we have precedent for this?
24:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Of course we do.
24:17
[SPEAKER_04]: We have precedent of mass casualty events.
24:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So we could have said something like that, right?
24:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you're right.
24:22
[SPEAKER_04]: They could have brought in feedback.
24:23
[SPEAKER_04]: They could have one coordinator to organize it.
24:26
[SPEAKER_04]: But there was too much chaos, too much blaming, too much, of course.
24:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Myth knowledge, you know,
24:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But can I ask you something, Nicole?
24:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I think at this point, and again, I know we didn't have a lot of experience in Florida in the high school.
24:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Two things that were kind of a conundrum for me.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: One was why so many qualified.
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, really trauma-trained qualified therapist that I knew of, where violent, trying to volunteer their time at the school and were blocked because they weren't licensed in Florida.
25:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is ridiculous because Florida just licensed people with simply being able to kind of like any kind of it's accelerated that Florida.
25:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we have licensure for people from the state like not complicated licensure to get And if they don't have licensure, but it's not a complicated licensure to get
25:21
[SPEAKER_04]: They were not allowed in the schools because they were not on the approved list.
25:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Whoever created that, do the approved list, I have no idea because they were all these therapists that tried to get on the approved list and they couldn't get on them.
25:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And when they were on the approved list, there was also a home that they're very year in terms of who was getting free care or who buttoned getting free care.
25:41
[SPEAKER_04]: you're right about that.
25:42
[SPEAKER_04]: You'd be hard to act right.
25:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think also the other piece, and I don't think it takes so many tragedies to happen.
25:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know everything's different, but like even when Sandy Hook had happened, even Columbine, even just looking back, I just never understood why at least what they could have done is set up individual funding, or people would
26:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Sandy Hook said, but we live in a Republican state, so that was unlikely to happen.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I did call, and I'm not going to name names, but I did call one of the foundations for Sandy Hook because I did get a child years later, who was a first grader, who needed treatment, and when I went to a couple of foundations, I was told both of them told me, and I could be wrong, but this is what I remember that the max this child was going to be getting is $1500.
26:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, something like that, it's crazy.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it'll get 1,500 for treatment.
26:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And just a few people who said that they get massage and they still told today they get a amount of funding for wellness.
26:45
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm not an expert on it, no, it's just one person.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: This was residential treatment.
26:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And my, my thing is even when you said the number 5,000 for people out there that don't understand the cost for treatment per day, we're looking at a minimum of a thousand a day, most of treatment is 1500 to 2000 a day, so again, I know that I mean,
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you were also at a very, very good treatment center, but it was more expensive than most, I think.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I just want we're getting we're getting so carried away and I love it, but something I I also wanted to discuss and I just to help people and I think this was something we really did touch on which people need to hear a lot of times you will find the symptoms of PTSD after traumatic event like this is not going to be instant it's going to be years later or could be months later and everybody is different, but when things started to happen, you know, or when you needed.
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: a therapist.
27:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what kind of therapist were you looking for and how did you find them?
28:03
[SPEAKER_04]: So the first one I mean it was days after was again kind of good Samaritans sent us to a trauma therapist who was Israeli and so she had a lot of experience.
28:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
28:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Very expensive, but you know, don't care at that point, right?
28:21
[SPEAKER_04]: You just want your
28:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we tried to go through equals haven, but again, they didn't really connect to with their guests.
28:35
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, unless it was like him, right?
28:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And if it wasn't, they didn't have therapy.
28:38
[SPEAKER_04]: They didn't offer therapy.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So just to stress this, when we're talking about trauma and tragedy, you definitely want to do your homework.
28:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And you definitely want someone who is, you know, you know, has dealt with these experiences and it also works really well with trauma.
28:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's all a function of, you know, they're all prided as long as it's like almost all prided.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Same in all states unfortunately, that's just, I tell families that all day every day, I hate to tell you, um, even the okay therapist and psychiatrist out there, everyone is going now private and you're filing your own claims.
29:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
29:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the insurance companies are just not great with reimbursement.
29:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I mean, now like, now I know a little bit more.
29:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I think now,
29:25
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, now I would ask to see resumes.
29:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I might look for somebody who's worth the VA.
29:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if it's like, you know, again, thinking of a mass casualty event, the people don't have experience looking with children, but they do have experience working with a mass casualty.
29:39
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, they're not gonna cry when they hear the story, which is a very common thing, right?
29:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Like a very common thing, and you know, you didn't have the treatment sensor by the way.
29:48
[SPEAKER_04]: We were like in family therapy one time, and like one of the counselors.
29:52
[SPEAKER_04]: So after hearing my daughter's party, so, you know, I mean, I think, you know, I think, yeah, I don't know.
30:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's what I'm hearing is and it's not to it's not to discourage people.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really to show them how difficult it was for you kind of to access these and this is with again your knowledge and you know my knowledge, my connections me being in the middle of what that world.
30:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
30:21
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, eventually I remember, I think I told you this before there was, there was just another good scenario.
30:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I don't even know how I was connected to.
30:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I was connected to him by a one of the committees that I was on to, you know,
30:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I remember sitting in my shower because it was the quietest place in my house.
30:53
[SPEAKER_04]: On the floor, adults in the shower, who are stepping down like trying to say, what do I do?
30:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, tell me what to do because I'm still confused.
31:03
[SPEAKER_04]: The Eagles Haven program that was set up to help, you know, I told you that was set up to help day or they were very anti-treatment.
31:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So why were they anti-treatment?
31:16
[SPEAKER_04]: on the therapist, right?
31:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, they weren't these kind of time at the therapist.
31:21
[SPEAKER_04]: They, like, you know, we didn't have any children's treatment centers in Florida, so maybe that's all they knew.
31:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, maybe all they knew was children's treatment centers in Florida, they most of them came from Jacko.
31:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So maybe that's all they knew in their experience, this wasn't a good avenue to explore.
31:41
[SPEAKER_04]: So...
31:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we almost have zero at the time, right now we have one that was just built across springs and other ones being built down in Miami.
31:51
[SPEAKER_04]: But at the time, I can't imagine any children's treatment centers that weren't just for substance abuse in Florida.
31:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that.
32:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is, this is again, and I'm, I know you're trying to give everybody the benefits of the doubt, and I like that.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But as someone who again who sees a lot of,
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's kind of a red flag when and I understand there might have not been the resources in the state of Florida, but any counselors and therapists do know there are good.
32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: well they didn't and and I think a part of that also in this happens and again no disrespect to anybody who is doing the treatment but a lot of times if you're not referring out to other sources and and things that may be kids or other people they need it's it's telling me that they wanted to keep it in house and there was a reason for that and so that's okay that's okay.
32:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't do it like this.
32:48
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a
32:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I think, Hannah, I'm going to go out on a limb here and in retrospect, their experience with Jaco, that's an extremely local program that works with local, Medicaid, education.
33:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Their world is Henderson, their world is not these
33:09
[SPEAKER_04]: other new treatment modalities.
33:11
[SPEAKER_04]: We're here in Florida.
33:12
[SPEAKER_04]: We've never heard of EMZR or brainspotting or, you know, some of these more tenities like, you know, newer evidence-based therapies, right?
33:20
[SPEAKER_04]: This is, unfortunately, the foster care world and the treatments that are available to them.
33:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And looking at that, it's Henderson.
33:28
[SPEAKER_04]: That's how we all do know.
33:30
[SPEAKER_04]: You're right.
33:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Why didn't, why didn't we set up Eagles?
33:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, then, why didn't we think broader to really connect people with top quality services?
33:36
[SPEAKER_04]: That was never a thought.
33:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think there was ever a thought to connect people with new top quality resources that are available.
33:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Because at a horse, you know, a horse therapy group, you can do mindfulness.
33:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can be decorated or sent to whatever local hospital.
33:53
[SPEAKER_04]: No, there must be.
33:54
[SPEAKER_04]: That was pretty much where it was.
33:58
[SPEAKER_04]: And as you know, it wasn't until like,
34:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And he gave me the name of three clickers.
34:06
[SPEAKER_04]: There's only three places in the country somebody with your daughter's comment that I would even consider sending them share.
34:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And he named it.
34:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the problem is, what do you do?
34:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Insurance that can cover out a state.
34:17
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you find the funding?
34:18
[SPEAKER_04]: How do we find the funding?
34:20
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you deal with sending your titles across the country to use sends a title into somebody's wilderness, right?
34:27
[SPEAKER_04]: There's also this whole wilderness thing.
34:29
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
34:30
[SPEAKER_04]: How could you send a tram into such a much hit
34:36
[SPEAKER_04]: What is the word?
34:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Anxiety.
34:39
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the disorder, right?
34:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Like with your sister, my daughter wasn't mean or nasty or cruel.
34:44
[SPEAKER_04]: She was suffering.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And she probably was terrified to leave her house.
34:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I would think.
34:51
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm not going to throw her in the wilderness program and make me feel like I'm not allowed to punish her.
34:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, for some reason, that might be the appropriate.
34:59
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, Avenue, making her work eight hours a day is not, you know, she was going to treatment, all the time she was going to treatment, she wasn't doing anything wrong.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and I think also talking to some of these, I've talked to a couple of these kids and I guess the conundrum too is, is you don't want to be in a room sometimes with other survivors from something that like a shooting because it only brings you back and it's just it just I've heard that they don't want that, but then they also don't want to just be in a group.
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: with people.
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
35:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.
35:35
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like, I don't know.
35:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, no trauma is not, you know.
35:39
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not the extent that the trauma that, you know, creates a bit that influences the egg girl health.
35:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
35:44
[SPEAKER_04]: It's different for every person.
35:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It could be, you know, multi-factorial that builds on each other.
35:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, do you know that?
35:49
[SPEAKER_04]: But you're right.
35:50
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, every single time in family, every school time, a year in family therapy, every freaking week.
35:57
[SPEAKER_04]: When she told her story, everybody else was next.
36:01
[SPEAKER_04]: why are you here?
36:02
[SPEAKER_04]: What's her point where we never told people any more about it?
36:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
36:05
[SPEAKER_04]: We just didn't want to.
36:06
[SPEAKER_04]: We didn't want to look something to say.
36:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Not from the tears, not from the kids, not from the...
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I understood.
36:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Not from anybody.
36:12
[SPEAKER_04]: They are overwhelmed, the truth of the matter is, every therapist, including at this amazing place we went to, they're overwhelmed by the time.
36:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Overwhelming, it's overwhelming.
36:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And so all you can do is say, okay, everyone is trauma.
36:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's now deal with the trauma.
36:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't, there's no evidence.
36:35
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no evidence, I don't know.
36:38
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no evidence, I don't know.
36:41
[SPEAKER_04]: on how, you know, how we're supposed to navigate and treat and care for our wonderful service members who come back and suffer.
36:51
[SPEAKER_04]: There's an entire system in place.
36:54
[SPEAKER_04]: But for our kids in those country.
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would just think at this point if the government was going to help, just maybe it's like first after like enough time and enough of what we're seeing just like we saw with COVID, I'm shocked.
37:09
[SPEAKER_01]: No one is maybe they are doing some outcome of our case studies.
37:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I just finished the, and I think that I just did a three year study on firearm violence.
37:19
[SPEAKER_04]: We received funding from Am ahead.
37:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It's an NIH artificial intelligence mechanism and me and my team had about 3 million.
37:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And through that work, what we saw to establish is how firearm violence exposure is being collected in
37:43
[SPEAKER_04]: If somebody is physically injured or dies from gun violence, they're going to the emergency department, they're going to the inpatient or they're going to the mortg.
37:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And there are standardized diagnosis codes just like you would have for asthma or diabetes for all of that.
37:58
[SPEAKER_04]: That's all, you know, wound open wounds as a result of fire arm.
38:03
[SPEAKER_04]: But trauma to the head as a result of the bullet, there's a whole number of codes around that.
38:08
[SPEAKER_04]: But what we don't have any codes on, are for exposure to fire and violence without insurey.
38:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So an example, kind of co-alturing the example to that might be an intimate partner violence or elder abuse.
38:20
[SPEAKER_04]: We have guidelines on how we screen for that.
38:23
[SPEAKER_04]: in ambulatory care setting.
38:25
[SPEAKER_04]: We have diagnosis codes for some of them on how we indicate in a problem list of a person that they've had that exposure.
38:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And what that says is that it allows us to follow it through over time, so somebody doesn't constantly talk about their trauma
38:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Presumably could be notified from care provider to care provider.
38:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So what we did in our research is we assessed millions and millions and millions of electronic health-referred primary care data also cared behind a fire wall and with approval from our institutional review board.
39:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And we reviewed to see how is firearm violence exposure being documented in primary care and behavioral health care.
39:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And what we largely found is that it's not, which is what we expect it, right?
39:13
[SPEAKER_04]: People aren't screening for it.
39:15
[SPEAKER_04]: People aren't talking about it.
39:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Therefore, it's not being documented.
39:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So we simply don't know.
39:20
[SPEAKER_04]: The estimates in this country is that two-thirds of American adults are somehow exposed to fire on violence, either through seeing community violence, like people who died, or having a friend or a family member who's committed suicide, who was on a shooting.
39:38
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
39:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Those are American adults.
39:40
[SPEAKER_04]: But that is just an estimate from a survey, actually documenting it is not something that we do.
39:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So if we don't document it, we can't research what the trajectory of the illness is, of the potential illness is.
39:53
[SPEAKER_04]: We assume based on our knowledge of what the VA has gone through, what the work that better in association is done.
40:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's kind of intuitive that people who are exposed
40:04
[SPEAKER_04]: to mass trauma are more likely to have substance abuse, are more likely to have PTSD, are more likely to have chronic disease, lower quality of life, right?
40:16
[SPEAKER_04]: We know that, but we haven't actually studied it.
40:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And so as far as children goes, we actually have no idea what the most appropriate treatments are.
40:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Where should we be navigating these children?
40:27
[SPEAKER_04]: They're coming into, you know, you're being seen by your pediatrician.
40:34
[SPEAKER_04]: have no idea what the kids are holding inside or what their exposure has been.
40:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And we know this, right?
40:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we know this, sadly from rate that doesn't do kind of identify 20 years later.
40:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
40:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So thank you for allowing you to talk about our research.
40:50
[SPEAKER_04]: We have a number of what was article in any academic literature and that work obviously has stopped under the current administration, but hopefully where we moved
41:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, a more global ton of we screen many screen right now again for intimate partner violence many screen right now for childhood these but we don't screen for exposure to to firearm violence.
41:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, and that's really unfortunate because it's so incredibly prevalent and even like you're saying this.
41:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure.
41:23
[SPEAKER_04]: The school, um, the fire drills.
41:25
[SPEAKER_04]: The fire drills cause the shooter do.
41:32
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, maybe you need them, you don't, and not commenting a lot of people in school safety, a lot of people that came out of Parkland are very supportive of it, right?
41:39
[SPEAKER_04]: If you can't prevent an violence, prepare people to react to it.
41:44
[SPEAKER_04]: But again, that creates, I mean, more or less an amount of trauma.
41:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're not dealing with it.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I have to just say, and thank you for speaking on everything about the work you're doing.
41:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, thank God we have people like you out there.
41:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hate that you had to personally walk through it with your child and your family and your community.
42:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just shocked that I remember like talking to a couple of my girlfriends where their kids were little and they were doing one of the drills.
42:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember asking them, I go, so what is it?
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: How does it go?
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, everybody gets into a bathroom stall and you're traumatizing an eight-year-old, and then you just say, okay, go to recess.
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see it in music class, see you in math.
42:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's happening.
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And that to me is also, I mean, that's a whole nether episode about, again, nothing against the schools, but the fact that we still think social studies is more important than maybe regulating and working with our children's, you know, how to emotionally regulate
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: on the daily.
42:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I have kids who have never even been through a drill who have not been through a tragedy, thank God.
42:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're still scared and traumatized to go to school.
42:55
[SPEAKER_04]: They're all scared and traumatized.
42:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it is, if you look at the, you research surveys that have been done, it's ridiculous how much people are scared and traumatized.
43:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's fun.
43:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm scared to go into the
43:14
[SPEAKER_04]: The homeless, but they were thinking, but Florida just, you know, publics here are supermarkets just past open carry because our governor passed open carry.
43:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So now you can walk into publics with with a gun.
43:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Now the work can really hard in the state of Florida.
43:25
[SPEAKER_04]: It's reversed what they did after a parkland shooting.
43:29
[SPEAKER_04]: They want to lower the age of assault rifles and firearms again from 21 to 18.
43:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a build that's going to be voted on in the house next week.
43:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it is.
43:39
[SPEAKER_04]: So unbelievable.
43:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
43:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we also can't walk around all day long being.
43:45
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I know.
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And my normal.
43:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I know about that.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw it with Parkland.
43:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that one thing that inspired me after the fact of such a horrible tragedy is I was grateful to see these kids finally stand up and say,
44:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we're seeing this more and more which is like the only hope I have is that we have children who have now grown up in this in this era of this, you know trauma and so my hope is that don't get and start voting more and also becoming politicians themselves and doing the work that a lot of these adults out there are cowards to do and are are choosing to ignore and that's a whole another and I can work that is unique.
44:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's very unique.
44:32
[SPEAKER_03]: You're one violent problem.
44:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's right.
44:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you know, and again, every word's different, but it's just, it's upsetting and the more we talk about it, the more I'm sure it's activating you is it's activating me.
44:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I guess a couple more questions I would have is and I think this is something we,
44:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We forget, and you know, again, like when we think of the victims, we think of those who have died or have been hurt and physically and we forget about, you know, the others, including the parents like yourself, the families, your life changes.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: greatly.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Completely.
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So my question is, is that families out there that have been affected by something like a tragedy like this and it hits the whole family really like what support, what resources were you guys able to get as a family or as individuals to walk through this?
45:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I went for the free counselling.
45:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Rue, you know, that was offered.
45:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I went five to six times.
45:36
[SPEAKER_04]: There, of course, it was nice enough.
45:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, like most parents, you just go into action mode, right?
45:44
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're left here thinking about yourself and more thinking about your child, then, you know, every single scenario is different, right?
45:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Like every single person looks for the differently and reacts differently.
45:56
[SPEAKER_04]: So I could talk about my own personal story, but it's just mine.
46:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Nobody else.
46:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But can parents access and families access support groups?
46:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Or is there anything like there are no support groups?
46:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I wish there were.
46:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Eagle Hayden said a front support group.
46:10
[SPEAKER_04]: But again, nothing was virtual.
46:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Everything was in person.
46:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you're a parent.
46:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Sir, what's that going to happen?
46:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Actually, going to a support group is not especially with a traumatic head of home that you don't want to leave.
46:20
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's not so that's not so.
46:22
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not so.
46:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, there are no supports that I know it's since the same thing as we were talking about with the kids for a couple of years ago.
46:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I joined a support group that was offered for Parkley families and it was on grief.
46:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was the same thing.
46:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Everyone who was there had lost a mother or father like they were there because they had lost a family member.
46:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
46:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I did not lose my daughter.
46:54
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it just, it wasn't there.
46:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Why we don't have support groups for, you know, families.
47:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
47:04
[SPEAKER_04]: That would have been something that really would have been helpful because we're very much on our own.
47:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Time really does heal things.
47:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank God.
47:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, now it's seven years later.
47:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And it still changed our life, but we're able to navigate it a little bit more.
47:19
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no.
47:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't join like another, you know, I mean, obviously when obviously when our daughter was in treatment, we had mandatory support groups to attend, which we did our best to, and you know, we joined some weekly support group, just kind of what it's like having a child in treatment, and I encourage anything to do that, take advantage of everything they offer you.
47:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
47:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it's really important to learn from people who have like walked the path,
47:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought like specifically around there, no, like around two days.
47:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll say that was the one thing I was trying to do that didn't work out for me or for you just I was the first thing I thought of when I spoke to one of the parents.
48:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember she had said when she had lost her child.
48:12
[SPEAKER_01]: that with her other kids, she at this, you know, I remember I was talking about going to treatment or getting the support for the family and she looked at me and she said, Anna, I don't let my sons go down to the mailbox alone.
48:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so hit me right then and there that, you know, we needed support groups locally for the kids as well as support groups for the parents and that's what I was trying to do, which didn't work out, but I guess, you know, I guess, I want to, I want to ask you if there is one thing that you wish that we could actually implement going forward, what would it be that wasn't given that because we did talk about this once about.
48:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Not a lot about this.
48:55
[SPEAKER_04]: First of all, you need one centralized location for somebody managing all this, right?
49:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And we need to pull the idea of panel management, right?
49:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it's a very common idea in medicine, panel management.
49:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Think of all these kids were affected.
49:09
[SPEAKER_04]: They're all part of this cohort group, right?
49:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Like they share something in comment.
49:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So now has someone in charge deciding, do we at least reach out to them and see what they need?
49:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you told me there was no registration.
49:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Like nobody, I know right, you would think you would come from the school, right?
49:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, the school doesn't allow to do it.
49:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And then because of her, they weren't allowed to share the list that anybody could do it.
49:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So the school did nothing.
49:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So no one called her.
49:36
[SPEAKER_04]: How services that they didn't reach out.
49:38
[SPEAKER_04]: My daughter, who was a senior.
49:40
[SPEAKER_04]: So this happens in February.
49:41
[SPEAKER_04]: She graduated in June.
49:42
[SPEAKER_04]: She never got a call, never.
49:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Not a call, not a notice, not a text, not an email.
49:48
[SPEAKER_04]: If can how she's doing, never.
49:52
[SPEAKER_04]: which is just, and quite have to navigate this, right?
49:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So they all went to these universities like we all had to call the universities, and we all had to talk about, you know, like things like fire drills and things, I mean, these were real things.
50:06
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
50:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Just a lot of it's been on lockdown that you asked like four times in a freshman year.
50:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we asked, was that again?
50:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Say that again?
50:13
[SPEAKER_04]: It was like on lockdown four times in a freshman year.
50:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it was so messed up.
50:18
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, again,
50:20
[SPEAKER_04]: You're just on your own, right?
50:22
[SPEAKER_04]: You would have thought, like, reading, there would have been something, right?
50:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, some coordinating, some pro-actin.
50:29
[SPEAKER_04]: This is why I think I said to you, there was nothing pro-actin.
50:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Everything was re-actin.
50:34
[SPEAKER_04]: If you found out about something, you could ask that, sir.
50:37
[SPEAKER_04]: But there was nothing, like, coming at, you know, coming.
50:40
[SPEAKER_04]: There was no general information saying, this is what you do.
50:45
[SPEAKER_04]: This is how you advocate, this is what the resources available to you.
50:50
[SPEAKER_04]: None of that, and I, and the really wasn't because I had students involved in one initiative of putting up posters everywhere to access, like, you know, suicide screening.
51:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I ended up getting the grant from the Blues Foundation, which was wonderful, and we had a three year grant to increase mental health literacy, specifically among people who speak Haitian Creole, to be the huge Haitian population,
51:17
[SPEAKER_04]: And we did, and you're so welcome.
51:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Virtual workgroup, so that we have peer representatives who decided the agenda with amongst themselves, and then we met once a month, and we brought in experts.
51:29
[SPEAKER_04]: We brought in people from the Brown County school system to help educate on resources that are available.
51:36
[SPEAKER_04]: But there was no body coordinating any of the same things.
51:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Ever.
51:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to end with this and I want to also let the viewers know and listeners know that after each episode what we try to do is give out the resources we are talking about some of the show notes of some really important points that you know so hopefully a family listening tonight can get on that and say okay here are some options for support groups or you know here are some steps to really take I guess another another time if I could another time maybe we
52:12
[SPEAKER_04]: How would you like to have you back?
52:16
[SPEAKER_04]: It makes the decision about sending their child to treatment and how difficult that decision is.
52:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And how that also is this like a sort of conflict or looking to be a source of conflicts in the family, right?
52:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it has a lot of physical decisions.
52:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
52:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, we're still talking about it years and years later.
52:35
[SPEAKER_04]: How could we?
52:37
[SPEAKER_04]: How could we?
52:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but I can also say Nicole, like things have changed in that now we have options where you don't have to always go to residential treatment.
52:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, now what's happening, and I'm seeing it more and more by really sophisticated, amazing teams is this kind of when you do have an adolescent or young adult or even adult who isn't able or wants to be in those walls, right?
53:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Or to be sent off is you can
53:02
[SPEAKER_01]: get this kind of wrapper around clinical support locally, which really kind of, you know, they just kind of do what you would be doing within the residential setting, but not in the residential setting.
53:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for some kids, that's great.
53:17
[SPEAKER_04]: That's here in Swarna, because like I told you if I knew that was here in Swarna, we'd be taking advantage of it right now.
53:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So nationally, there are teams that do this and what we find with these teams is they will, and this is the stinky part is some of it can be costly but what I've seen happen is they will have members of their team fly in and actually be with, you know, you guys or they'll do a lot of remote stuff.
53:42
[SPEAKER_01]: This is recent though.
53:43
[SPEAKER_01]: This is only in the past I'm thinking like four or five years that I've really seen this kick off and I believe
53:50
[SPEAKER_01]: just like sobriety and recovery.
53:52
[SPEAKER_01]: There isn't just one fix.
53:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if there's any way we can offer the help and get the help, you know, based on the need instead of just assuming, you know, everybody's, you know, wanting to do the same thing.
54:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And because, you know, again, the point of doing this podcast is to let people know out their what resources are readily available right now that people don't know about.
54:13
[SPEAKER_01]: If you had a parent on the phone right now,
54:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were looking for help, you know, going through what you guys all went through if there's any parting words that there was one or two things that you just wouldn't want to get through to that family what would it be.
54:28
[SPEAKER_04]: To talk to families a lot don't be like don't catastrophize and nothing is forever.
54:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
54:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, that probably is the biggest one so catastrophized.
54:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was so someone said it to me, like the day before my daughter went into treatment.
54:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And they were like, don't catastrophize with going to treatment, so I'll get the help so you need to hopefully soak them out.
54:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, okay, like, and it was so hard for me to think beyond.
54:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, you think it's going to be forever like this.
54:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
54:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'd say that.
54:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I guess it's really the same thing.
54:59
[SPEAKER_04]: You would say to somebody who's having an episode of any kind of need of a whole crisis or medical for, right, like, your tomorrow.
55:07
[SPEAKER_04]: We can't do it right now, but there's a tomorrow.
55:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
55:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have to say I have.
55:14
[SPEAKER_01]: watch your daughter from afar for all these years.
55:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've checked in with you and she's very remarkable.
55:22
[SPEAKER_01]: She does, but she has a remarkable young woman and who is diligently doing the work and still is.
55:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It just shows how, you know, I think, thank God you were an advocate, thank God, that you knew what to do when to do it in some ways and you knew to ask for the help of the right
55:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I say, yeah, it's been a help in the right people.
55:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm right, doing one's part.
55:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I have a lot of really good people helping to navigate.
55:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Now I'm going on this one's point.
55:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I would have told her right out and then we didn't know what to do.
55:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And then she was eventually hooked out.
55:58
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was.
55:59
[SPEAKER_04]: But then we found another angel locally.
56:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, right.
56:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And I would go to that.
56:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's really what it is.
56:05
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just finding these angels who
56:11
[SPEAKER_04]: and want to get rid of them.
56:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're right about that, too.
56:14
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not everyone who wants to help.
56:16
[SPEAKER_04]: It's for people who have experience.
56:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't, you know, that's super important.
56:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I can't thank you enough for being here today.
56:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that you're on my way.
56:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
56:26
[SPEAKER_05]: You know that.
56:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that you, I hate that you guys,
56:32
[SPEAKER_01]: winter any of this, but I am grateful that you called me that day and I am in your life today and that I get to see you as a family grow and it's pretty amazing to watch and I just again thank you thank you for being here and we'd love to have you back and I love you and thank you.
56:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
56:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you back.
56:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
56:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
56:56
[SPEAKER_01]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
57:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical health professional or health care provider for personalized advice tailored to your unique needs.
57:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
57:20
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
57:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
57:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
57:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here to support you every step of the way.