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Guest Podcast: Everything I Screwed Up When I Started My Podcast (That One Time) · Success Story with Scott Clary

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  Today, on that one time, I'm joined for the second time round by Scott D. Clary. Scott
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  is an entrepreneur and the host of the Success Stories podcast, which boasts over 20 million
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  downloads across over 650 episodes and has featured interviews with the world's best business
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  This episode is a little different as instead of being an interview, we're pulling back the
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  curtain of the business of podcasting. If you've ever thought about starting your own podcast or
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  want to level up the one that you have, this deep dive is for you. Scott shares his journey,
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  challenges and the strategies that has propelled his success. We also explore the A to Z of the key
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  elements required to create and build a winning podcast. Whether you're a seasoned
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  podcaster or just starting out, there is something in here for everybody. I really think you'll
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  enjoy the insider's guide to podcasting success with Scott D. Clary. If you find value in this
• 1:09
  episode, please follow us, give us a rating on Spotify or like and subscribe on YouTube.
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  We're on a journey to a thousand subscribers and your support means a world.
• 1:26
  Today we're doing something different. I'm here with Scott D. Clary, who's a friend of mine
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  and the host of Success Stories podcast, which to date has done over 650 episodes,
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  20 million downloads and interviewed some of the greats in business such as Seth,
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  Gordon, Grant Cardone and the founder of Netflix, Mark Randolph and many more. Scott, welcome back.
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  Thanks for having me back. I'm excited to do this. It's it's it's it. Part two. Yeah, part two,
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  we're going to be doing a deep dive into the podcast business, how to run a podcast, the stories,
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  the ideas, the directions of technical analysis. So yeah, let's get into it. So well, let's start with
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  your story. Where did you where did your podcast begin? How did it begin? What were the early days
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  like versus what's going on now? So the podcast started when I was building a company that was
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  eventually acquired and the sort of the thesis behind the the thesis behind creating a brand,
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  which came before starting a podcast. And I actually first started posting content and building
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  a brand in air quotes on LinkedIn. But it was about future proofing myself. So I know that the
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  company that was building at the time was going to be acquired, but it wasn't going to be like,
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  if you never work again, money, it was not that kind of exit, not that kind of company. It was
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  listen, it was a season of my life. And I'm very grateful for it. But I knew that I had to start
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  again at some point. And I didn't want to have to start from scratch. And I was also a marketer.
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  So I you mentioned before we pressed the record that you have a bias towards content. And you know,
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  the Gary Vaynerchuk's of the world and the Seth goans of the world and like the Grand Cardones and
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  all the other people in the Hermosies and all the people make tons of content. And at the time,
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  Seth was around Gary was around. Grant was ish around, but he wasn't really considered like
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  marketing thought leader. He was more of like he markets, but he was more of a real estate guy.
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  And Hermosie was not really around. So I was a student of Gary Vaynerchuk and I saw that he built
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  the audience basically just through reps over a period of time. And then he used that audience to
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  launch brand. So then he would launch. Well, he had Vayner Media, which is kind of what the first
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  business he built with his brother. And then he had a Vayner sport and empathy wines and eventually
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  dropped his NFT project. And he has a ton of other businesses. Some probably have never even seen
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  the light of day. But the point is he's used this platform to launch stuff. And I didn't know what I
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  wanted to do in the future. But I knew that I didn't want to start from scratch. And I wanted to
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  basically make my life easier going forward. If I wanted to launch a new company or I wanted to
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  launch a product or I say, I want to do like coaching or consulting or whatever. So that's
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  that New York in the background. Oh, yeah, we love it. It's soothing sound that like makes me feel
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  safe and at home. I miss that sound. I miss New York. But I have to. New York's a very inspiring
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  city, actually, every time. So Miami, it's interesting because you have wealth everywhere. But you
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  have like, you have wealth, but it feels like nobody wants to work. But you know that when you see
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  all the yachts, the people work like crazy to get those. But I feel like now, people Miami,
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  they just like the lifestyle, it's so much lifestyle. When I go to New York, I feel so small and
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  insignificant. And you look out over the city and you're just like, shit, like there's so much I can
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  do. I mean, you just feel like you've got to hustle more. It's such a, yeah, everyone is hustling.
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  Yeah, very different vibe. I go to New York is like, is like a mix of like a palette cleanse,
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  but also just like to lay like a fire under my ass every once in a while. Cause that like,
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  anyways, back to the podcast. So yeah, just understood that I want to do stuff in the future.
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  I don't want to start from scratch. And if I had an audience of people that knew who I was and
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  liked me and trusted me, then I wouldn't have to spend X million dollars on marketing budgets to
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  take a product to market. That was really the thought process. So then I was like, okay, so what do I
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  know? What can I talk about what type of content can I create? I'm not like a big fan of short
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  form video at the time because I didn't really understand video that well. I didn't think about
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  I didn't think TikTok was a great medium for like somebody who came from an entrepreneur
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  background to really kill it at. I saw people killing it on TikTok and other short form platforms.
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  Actually, I can't even remember if short form was a thing on Instagram when I started. I don't
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  think so. About six years ago, I can't remember when it was on marketing. Yeah, it was, it was just,
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  it was just coming off. And it was like dancing videos. I'm like, okay, this isn't, yeah,
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  this isn't a vibe for me. So what type of content would I enjoy to create? Can I figure out how
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  to create and can I and can I build a system so I can do it and play the long game? Cause I've
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  spoken this a lot. But if I believe if you if you do something for an unreasonable amount of time,
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  you're going to have almost an impossible chance of failing at it. If you're a smart person,
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  you iterate through some of the things you don't work and you learn and you improve. So I was like,
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  I had that mindset going into the podcast as well as I would with any business. So I'm like, okay,
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  what's the thing I can do for a long period of time? And I started with LinkedIn because that
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  seemed to be my demographic. I was running sales and marketing at a startup and I understood sales
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  and marketing. I spoke about these types of topics and conversations and hiring and ICP and
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  buyer persona and avatar and sequencing and outbound. I don't know what any of those words are. You've
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  just it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The point is it's about driving revenue for companies.
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  And I was leading sales and marketing. I did that my whole career. So this is what I started
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  speaking about on LinkedIn. Obviously resonates with a super nerdy LinkedIn audience. And I'm
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  I am a nerd. So I can call people back. So started there. And I also realized that that's great.
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  But it's not a scalable strategy. So if I write a long post for LinkedIn, it could hit on LinkedIn.
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  But it's not going to translate into YouTube. It's not going to translate into Instagram without
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  some sort of interpretation or some sort of massaging that. So that I looked at podcasts and I
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  looked at, okay, not only is this type of content going to be video content, which is a little
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  bit more engaging. It can be replicated across platforms. It's less lift in my opinion to take video
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  and turn it into written content that it is. It take written content and to format it into video.
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  Because if I'm already recording the video content, then I can just chop it up and distribute it.
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  Also, a side effect of doing video content and podcasts, it's sort of like, check two other
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  boxes. One nobody gave a shit about me at the time and nobody knew who I was. So I wanted to
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  interview. Except for your mom of course. My mom always cared. I'm always care. Yeah. Yeah. She's
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  always been a fan of my content. Sometimes I think she thinks she still doesn't 100% get what I do
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  when she sees my face pop being up on YouTube all the time. But yeah, she's always been a very
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  big fan and supportive. But my dad's actually really funny because he's like, he's like a big car
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  YouTube guy, which is all like the car channels. And then he lasts because he's like, I always watch
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  my car guys and then like your face pops up on my YouTube. But he's not watching. I don't think
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  he's watching stuff. I don't think he's watching a kind of like entrepreneur interviews. He's
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  like this. I don't know what my son's doing here, but whatever. Good for him. Anyway, I could
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  rate to explain it that I've used is like, it's basically a new form of like CNN. You're creating a show
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  that doesn't distribute through a TV channel. It's true, but it's such a hard, it's such a hard
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  concept to wrap your mind around when you build it from scratch. Yeah. Because you build the
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  you own the distribution and you build it from scratch. And that's a very novel. I mean, it is
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  new. It's not like it's not new and strange for us because we live it. But it's new and strange
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  for a lot of people. I mean, Joe Rogan having more impressions than like Fox and CNN. That's insane.
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  That's absolutely insane. So it is new media. It is built your own distribution channel.
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  Yeah. I mean, like I dated a girl a little while ago and she had, she was an influencer and
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  she was, she would always like get weed when someone asked her what she did for work. And I'm,
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  I just determined to say you work in media. You are, you run a media company. Like that is the core of
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  it. It's so funny. Gina, Gina. So, so my better half also, she has a massive Instagram account
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  called my therapist says they've been doing it for the hell like 8.3 million followers.
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  That's her whole business. They built it with their sister. She built it with their sisters.
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  And it's so funny. She also, I mean, she knows what she's doing. She built a massive company
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  around this. But like when somebody asks her what she does, like there's been all these different
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  versions of an answer. And I'm like, this is just like, you're not, you're not just an influencer.
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  Like you built a media brand. You have media business. You have 10 different assets that have
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  X millions of followers. Like this is, I mean, I, I, like they've hit over 100 million US
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  impressions per month. Yeah. Well, they're not always there. But like they've hit that number.
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  But that's like phenomenal. That's a wild amount of impressions. Like I wish my podcast did 90
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  million. That's wild. So, I mean, you are a media company at the end of the day. And that's,
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  and it's funny because you go through this journey of all these different identities when
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  you're building your contacts. You're a creator and you're an entrepreneur and you're a founder.
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  And then you're also a media company and you're all these things all at once. But it's also,
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  it's probably an interesting conversation about the psychological component of entrepreneurship
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  and what you identify as. And I don't, I'm not an expert in that by any means. But I,
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  there is something interesting there when somebody asks, what do you do? And the first answer that
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  comes to your mind. And that's a really good signal as to what you're focused on or what you're
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  not. And really where your energy and your passion goes. But anyway, so podcast seem to make a lot
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  of sense. I could bring in guests. And again, not every podcast has to be a guest interview. But for
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  me, it was like, I want to tap in other people's audiences because that's how I'm going to grow
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  because eventually no one knows who I am and nobody cares about me. And that will eventually change
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  as you grow and you become a creator and your own right and people actually do shop for your show
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  for you, not the guest, but day zero. Nobody knows who you are. And then again, so super scalable content
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  strategy, record the podcast, turn into all these derivative pieces of content, simultaneously
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  tapping into other people's audiences, which is a helpful growth mechanism. And then the last thing
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  that I really liked about podcasting is it, it was a medium that I enjoyed. I enjoyed the core of it.
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  Yeah, I think so. I've thought about this a lot like I enjoy long form content. I enjoy content
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  that has context. I don't enjoy clickbait. I don't enjoy short form that doesn't really provide
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  value. I also don't enjoy people who oversimplify complex topics or who are not genuine. And I found
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  that podcast just if you speak to somebody for two hours, it's really hard for them to bullshit
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  you for two hours. And also it's not even about the bullshit. It's just about oversimplifying
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  things that are not simple. So I enjoy listening to a podcast because I get like the real
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  answer or the real insight from that person. I also believe that, you know, I have very strong
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  opinions about books. I think that books are edited and filled with fluff from the editor just to
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  hit a certain word count. I like listening to authors that come on podcasts around the time when
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  they released a book because the author is going to talk about the points that they actually care
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  about. Yes, there's a whole bunch of benefits of reading, but there's a lot of fluff in there to
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  hit some page counter word count that I don't think was probably the first most important,
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  most top of mind, most, you know, thing that this author is so intimately passionate about,
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  that's not 100% of the book. But I do want to know what that is. And I can do that through
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  a podcast, which is obviously I'm a fan of the medium because I do it. But that was really the
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  that was a kickoff. And it's sort of just been doing it since then. It was the two ideas with
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  the, I think the author idea, probably the really good authors get their book cut down by like
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  90% and then the bad authors need to get fluffed up. So it's probably, probably goes in those two
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  ways. And the other, the other thought I had was, um, and the thing I love about podcasting,
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  like this podcast has a, you know, that one time has a small audience right now. But it is,
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  you know, we're 70 episodes in and that's, that's nothing in this like world.
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  Shut up. That's substantial. What are you talking about that? You know, I've told you this
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  stat. It's like, if you, if you do more than nine episodes, you're already in like the top 1%
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  of podcasts. Let me rephrase that. It's, it's nothing in the world of successful podcasts
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  because you hear the stories of pretty much every successful podcast that I've heard of like a,
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  how to do a podcast episode on, they all say, yeah, we were doing shit for like three years and
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  nobody was listening. And then one day it just went bang. But yes, but also it's, there's some
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  other crazy stats like, uh, the top 10 podcasts account for 35% of the ad revenue in the entire
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  market. So yes, there is, there is going to be a slow grind for a podcast. There's going to be
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  a middle class creator economy with podcasts that aren't making a hundred million dollar Spotify
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  deals. But if you stick with it long enough and you are good at it and you find a niche that you
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  serve, I mean, they're, like in any industry, there could be outsized returns once you get to
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  the top of your field. And then also, I do believe that again, you're building a form of leverage,
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  right? You're building one of the four types of leverage, which then you can use to launch
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  other products or services. And look, um, the thing I was going to say, Diary of a CEO, he spoke
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  about the impact that podcasts have on people. He, he, there was a podcast you put out in 2021
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  that I recently listened to that he was talking about, you know, how much money is made and why he
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  keeps doing it. And he mentioned that he's like, we would do these Facebook posts and they'd get
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  millions of views. But then we would do podcast episodes and have thousands of views. And I would
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  get stopped on the street 95% of the time because of his podcast. No one remembers the short form.
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  But these long form episodes and these long form pieces of content with the right talking to the
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  right person at the right time locks into their brain in a very, very deep way. Just as another
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  example, I again, in context, small podcasts, small listener base growing up into the right, but small,
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  I get a call from a friend of mine. And she goes, the last podcast you did was unbelievable. Like,
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  I've told all my friends, I've told my family, I love it so much. Just that alone.
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  There's one of those is amazing to like here and motivate, extremely motivating. You don't get
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  that from like some random TikTok you're going to do. No, because because the trust that's built
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  with the podcast is like any other social. I mean, I was actually just reading, I was in a Facebook
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  group for Riverside. We're actually recording on right now. And one of the questions, because I like
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  to read just for content ideas, I like to read like what problems people are having because it's
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  actually a great way to create content because you know that that's like a topic that's going to hit.
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  And one of the people, one of the people in the group was saying like, I had two reals on
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  Instagram that got over a million views. And I had, and nothing happened to the downloads on
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  the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So, and also that's that's pretty that's a pretty normal situation. If you
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  look at, if you look at not just podcasts, but long form video or long form versus short form.
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  If you look at a big YouTuber and long form could be 10 minutes, it could be 60 minutes, it could
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  be like Lex Friedman's eight hour long forms, anything like over 30. This is my whole
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  episode too. Did you actually? I did. That's not too wild. That's too much. That's a long ass episode.
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  But if you look at YouTubers, the biggest YouTubers, and you want to gauge how effective at building
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  trust and trust leads to actual revenue and trust leads to evangelism. But if you want to look at
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  the biggest YouTubers, they their audience follows them. So the biggest YouTubers have massive
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  of Instagram and Twitter and Facebook and TikTok and everywhere else. You go to a big TikToker.
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  It's like tickets everywhere else. Yeah. Yeah. Billions, billions with a B views on TikTok and have
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  like a hundred Twitter followers. It's actually insane. I don't, I actually don't understand
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  how disloyal TikTok audiences are. But I know that like in past lives, I've run campaigns and I've
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  run marketing campaigns and I've run ads and I've done TikTok influencers and it's just the worst.
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  It just has not worked out. I don't know what it is. I know that people, I know that people
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  scroll and maybe they just don't build an affinity with the influencer or the thought leader on TikTok
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  like they do. But I see the signals that it's just not an effective trust building platform. It's
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  almost like if you think of social as like a funnel, I would say like TikTok is at like the top of
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  the funnel and then YouTube could be somewhere closer to the bottom where you're trying to get
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  closer to like conversion. But TikTok is just like awareness. Like I want, like if I'm using TikTok,
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  I just want somebody to like not not everyone's going to be a Charlie Demilio. I just want somebody
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  to like see my face once and then in a month or two months when they finally stumble across my
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  YouTube or my podcast, they're like, oh yeah, I remember him. Let me see what this podcast
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  is about. Like that's the conversion. But it's not going to be like and then they're going to listen
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  to the podcast and they're going to become a subscriber or they're going to buy my product or service.
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  But it's not going to be like for for from my experience TikTok directly through to lifelong fan
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  or high value customer. Well, it's probably because if I'm thinking this through in any
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  meaningful way, TikTok, there's like low intent, like you go on TikTok, you're scrolling through
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  a 4U page, you're getting fed an algorithm, you're watching low intent, low impact videos.
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  And you're not making any personal choice to get to that point. And then the other one,
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  I think the other reason why I think YouTube's very, very powerful is you have to, you know,
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  it's really going to see the same creator over and over again without a follow. So you like
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  someone you follow them. There's like the first point of intent. And then let's just say a podcast
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  or a weekly video or something. There's, I did, I didn't episode, I can't remember with who,
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  but they said that, oh, I think it might have been, no, I think it was, I've got, I just,
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  my brain just went, I don't know what, forget about the person, what did they say?
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  Out of my head. Anyway, so I did, I did a podcast recently with a guy and he mentioned that
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  he would build trust through spaced repetition, consistency over a weekly check-in with his
• 20:56
  self resulted in much more trust to occur. And you could do that with your business partners,
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  you're done with your relationships, you do that with strangers. So the idea that every time,
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  spaced repetition and showing up consistently builds a basis of trust in all components of
• 21:14
  the human interactions. So if you model that directly to content, that could be a weekly show,
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  that could be, you know, a daily show with Oprah. You're there every day, same day, same time,
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  you're doing a podcast release at 6 p.m. every Thursday, same week, same time, it builds that,
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  that genuine trust that is just part of the human interaction, but TikTok does not.
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  In any form. Yeah, TikTok is just chaotic. And by the way, that, that, that strategy is a pretty
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  common strategy. So even in, again, talk about sales, like you have to have, depending on how
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  expensive your product is, 15 to 17 touch points with the customer before they trust you,
• 21:56
  enough to make a buying decision. So that, that could be a call, that could be an email,
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  that could be, that could be them going to your website. Like, it's not necessarily spaced out
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  in a cadence like what you're talking about. If it could be, that'd be phenomenal. But,
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  yes, that's a very, that's a very common, it's a very common idea. And I think that it's actually
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  very smart for content. And the fact that, again, there's no, it, it's a little bit different
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  if you're trying to structure this idea around somebody buying a product or service because they
• 22:28
  need this product or service. In content, the thing they need can be found anywhere. It's not,
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  it's not like there's four or five vendors that they have to look at to buy this thing.
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  The thing that somebody needs when they're looking at content could be entertainment,
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  it could be distraction, it could be information, it could be humor. There's a couple different
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  things that people actually need and get out of content. But it can be, it's almost like,
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  there's so many opportunities to get it that if you aren't dialed into one person and if you
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  just see them flip through your screen, great. But I can find content just as good if not better
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  than that person in the next 20 slides or whatever, the next 20 tick talk thing. So it's just,
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  it's just like a, it's a commodity. It's just like, it's just pure commodity and there's so much
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  of it. So it's really hard to gain the trust with somebody. Now, the inverse would be if somebody
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  discovered you on YouTube and watches all your content and then they go follow you on tick talk
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  because they like you and they want to just consume you everywhere and they trust you. But
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  the trust has to come from YouTube first. It's very rarely going to come from tick talk first.
• 23:39
  Yeah, exactly, exactly. So moving into your story a bit further, what was the point of inflection?
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  Well, I think that, I think the idea, when I think inflection point, I think something that had
• 23:57
  to happen that pushed me towards starting a thing. So maybe, sorry, let me reframe that question.
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  So what you started the podcast, you had, it started work, it started going and then there was
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  there a moment in time where you went, where you saw that it was really clicking and how long was
• 24:18
  that and what do you think pieced it all together? No, no, no, not at all. Not at all. I would say that,
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  I would say that because I don't want people to think that there's a point where it just gets
• 24:34
  a lot easier. The same workflow that I did in the first week of creating that podcast is more
• 24:40
  or less the exact same as the same workflow that I do now. Now, what is improved is I'm a better
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  interviewer. I have better guests. I have a better team supporting me, which then creates a flywheel,
• 24:54
  which drives more revenue, which allows me to promote it more, which allows me to get better guests
• 24:58
  and hire better people and just do more and better. And I mean, the podcast growth has really been
• 25:09
  like just anybody who's listening who's created a ton of content on other platforms usually can
• 25:16
  equate their success to a viral moment. That's what I've heard from people that have built on
• 25:21
  other platforms. There's like one tweet that's shared by somebody huge or there was one TikTok that
• 25:29
  went viral and then you got 50,000 followers. For a podcast, I have found that it is very much
• 25:36
  like this linear growth significantly linear growth. And the reason why that is is because there's no
• 25:43
  organic discovery on podcasts, which is also why I also focus on YouTube a lot. But for the majority
• 25:51
  of this career, it's been just linear growth. It's so interesting because it's very tough to
• 25:59
  build a podcast. It's probably one of the hardest things that I've done. But it's also afforded me
• 26:03
  the most opportunity. And now is one of the funnest things that I get to do. So I don't mind it,
• 26:08
  considering the fact that I talk to people I find fascinating for a living. But there was no one guest
• 26:16
  or there was no one strategy that was like, oh, it's going linear. And then all of a sudden,
• 26:22
  it like shoots up into the right like some massive bell curve hockey stick growth. I would say that
• 26:28
  the hockey stick growth starts when you start. It's almost it's like this. It's life is so cruel.
• 26:37
  Life is so cruel. Because your hockey stick growth starts for podcasts, audio for sure,
• 26:45
  when you start to chart. And when you start to chart, that's when people discover you. And that's
• 26:51
  when you get like truly exponential growth. However, you when you chart on Apple.
• 26:56
  Oh, charge. Charge. Charge. Charge. Yeah. Charge. No, charging charging does not lead to
• 27:02
  exponential growth. If anything, it has the inverse effect. So how do you chart?
• 27:09
  You have to hit X amount of downloads a month. And that's how you chart. And when you hit that
• 27:15
  amount of volume, then that's when you chart, then that's when people actually start to discover
• 27:19
  you outside of the effort and energy that you're putting in. So my subscribers and my growth
• 27:27
  almost exclusively had been attributed to me. I mean, the gamut of marketing activity. So
• 27:34
  turning the podcast into a whole bunch of shorts, turning the podcast into a newsletter,
• 27:37
  into a blog, assuring the blog on my website, doing running paid ads for it, doing collaboration
• 27:43
  with other podcasts, cross pollinating my audience across all my different. So newsletter
• 27:48
  tells people to go to the podcast, podcasts, people go newsletter, social tells people to go to
• 27:51
  the newsletter podcast. So it's like the every single marketing activity you could do for a business
• 27:57
  you do for your podcast. And that's what helps it grow. But it's not like there's one particular
• 28:04
  marketing activity that had outsized returns compared to all the others. So but it's a very
• 28:11
  loyal audience. So the audience does stick with you. And the audience does follow you around. And
• 28:17
  that's a benefit of it. But yeah, so it's it's it's tough because I don't want that to be I don't
• 28:23
  want that to be, you know, to turn somebody off from starting it. But what I do want them to do
• 28:30
  is understand that if you're going to do this, do it for the long game and build a system or
• 28:36
  process that allows you again to do it for an unreasonable amount of time, five to 10 years,
• 28:42
  because it's fine. It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be enjoyable. But if you can stick
• 28:47
  around for five to 10 years, and then you adopt some marketing strategies to help it grow. And if
• 28:53
  you reinvest the revenue that comes from it right back into the marketing and the advertising of
• 28:57
  the show, you'll you'll be successful. It's not a matter of it's not a matter of if it's a matter
• 29:02
  of when. But I do think that expectations have to be met because we live in again an era of
• 29:07
  instant gratification and virality and overnight everything. And usually when success comes quick,
• 29:14
  it can also go quick. So I think that that's really that's what I found at least. I mean,
• 29:19
  people can definitely use virality to kick off careers. Don't get me wrong. But I don't mind having
• 29:24
  a loyal I don't mind having a loyal audience. It's six with me and continue to grow with me.
• 29:29
  And the podcast is only moving in the right direction. And I I have set myself up so that it is not
• 29:37
  so much of a burden on me time wise or financially that if it does, you know, now it's obviously
• 29:44
  successful. But if if it did take another 10 years, I would have to quit because I couldn't pay my
• 29:50
  rent or I couldn't pay my rent or I don't have any time with my family. In my mind, that's the
• 29:55
  podcast. That is there's no there's no point in speedrunning a podcast. I don't think it's valuable.
• 30:02
  I don't think it's a it's a way to win. Now there's ways again, there's strategies to help
• 30:06
  it grow. But still, I think that you do have to have some patience when you're building this out.
• 30:11
  Yeah, definitely. And I'm noticing that there's my editor and I appartners in this and he makes a
• 30:17
  joke that he's like, Oh, I mean, this for three years with nothing. I know that we're not getting
• 30:21
  anywhere for at least three years. But it's all compounded. It's all compounded. And also,
• 30:27
  there's other ways. So the way that I did it, I did not start a podcast for a business. I
• 30:33
  started a podcast because I enjoy chatting with people and I started a podcast for starting a
• 30:36
  podcast. But if you have a business, there's ways to leverage a podcast that can better serve your
• 30:43
  business. So if you have a product or a service you sell, then it can monetize much quicker,
• 30:48
  right? We're talking about podcasting just for the sake of ad revenue, which is different than
• 30:53
  having a business on the back end of it from day one. Well, some very interesting conversations
• 30:59
  are beginning to develop. Like I have one example of a sponsor that I had that started off as a sponsor
• 31:09
  and that relationship is slowly developing and we're looking at potentially coming on as like
• 31:13
  equity partners for that brand with a part of the sweat being incorporating media, which
• 31:23
  which is wild. So you're going into businesses. Yeah, buying into businesses through the media
• 31:32
  channel is a really, really interesting long term growth strategy for just life.
• 31:39
  Well, look at 20 VC with Harry. He started a VC focus podcast and I'm pretty sure that's how he
• 31:46
  raised his fund. He has a nice little portfolio of companies acquired. Also, I don't know
• 31:58
  if they use their podcasts to raise it. I'm pretty sure, I don't know, I don't want to speak
• 32:03
  at a lie. I don't think user podcasts to raise a fund. But I know that one of the co-hosts,
• 32:08
  for sure, I think both of them actually have their own funds. Again, business focus podcast,
• 32:13
  I'm sure at the very least it gives them access to deal flow because they have such great
• 32:18
  connections. So even if it's not directly like they're advertising, they're raising a fund and
• 32:24
  they're going out to some of the listeners to raise as GPs, it will give them access to deal flow.
• 32:32
  And also, I know that the opportunities that you get from doing this, they're huge. I mean,
• 32:38
  I've spoken at inbound, which is a massive business conference put on behalf spot for the past
• 32:42
  three years. And it sort of kicked off like a little bit of a speaking career for me. And now I
• 32:46
  speak at a variety of different spots. And those acquired guys that I just mentioned. Again,
• 32:51
  that's a very large business podcast. And they just did a live podcast interviewing Mark Zuckerberg
• 32:59
  at the Chase Center in what is it? SF, I think. And that was spot that was put on. And that was
• 33:08
  in front of 10,000 people. And that was put on by JP Morgan, who is their title sponsor for I guess
• 33:13
  this season or last season. So like the opportunities are absolutely huge. And there's going to be
• 33:20
  ways to monetize and just basically just improve your life in a variety of ways or build a bigger
• 33:27
  brand or whatever you want to accomplish if you start a show. And the reason is because you are
• 33:34
  just exposing yourself to so many ideas and so many people that the advertising component really,
• 33:42
  if you look, if you zoom out and you look at the impact, yeah, it's like it's so small compared
• 33:47
  to the impact that's going to have on your life. Yeah, really? No, I don't, I don't want to sound
• 33:51
  corny, but it's true. I mean, the stepping onto some of the stages that you'll get set onto and
• 33:56
  the people that you'll meet, it's like it's truly life changing. There's not many other ways that
• 34:00
  to do that, to have that many opportunities, it would be very expensive to do that without this
• 34:08
  particular, or this particular media. Yeah, well, look, you know, using the recent guests that I've
• 34:14
  had, which is the biggest guests I've had, you know, outside of you, of course, was Chris Voss,
• 34:19
  like he's a very well-known, Chris is a very nice person. He's massive, right? And
• 34:24
  and that came off the back of realistically, he's like, the list of reasons why he came
• 34:31
  onto the podcast. And I've read his book, I've done some of his masterclass, I've listened to a
• 34:37
  ton of his podcasts, like he's been on Joe Rote, no, no, no, no, no, he's been on Diro Vassillo,
• 34:43
  he's been on Andrew Huberman, he's been on Lex Friedman, he's been on, I think Chris William
• 34:50
  said, like he's been on, he's been on, yeah, he's been on a lot of spots. And they've all got
• 34:55
  millions of views on YouTube, he's got a book that sold two and a half million copies,
• 34:59
  he speaks for probably 20 to $50,000 for an hour. And again, I know you say that I'm in like
• 35:09
  the top one, but as far as I'm concerned with where my goals are at, we are at like, we are at
• 35:14
  the point five percent of where I want this to be one day. But just by the sheer fact that we
• 35:21
  at this point, I got to sit down with him, you know, camera to camera for an hour and 15 minutes
• 35:28
  and talk to him about what he's the fuck I wanted to talk about. I know, it's amazing.
• 35:33
  And then I get to potentially make money off that. That concept alone is ridiculous. And
• 35:40
  the thing I said before it was Chris, that was where the podcast, that was where that idea of
• 35:45
  like space repetition came from, because it came from him talking to, oh, about about like a
• 35:52
  hostage, yeah. Hostage is constantly negotiation with the criminals. He would do space repetition
• 35:59
  the same time building trust. And we spoke about this idea that, oh, is that relevant for the
• 36:05
  rest of your life? And he said, 100%. You can apply that to every other element. And that,
• 36:10
  that is an idea is going to fundamentally shift how I navigate dating, how I navigate my staff,
• 36:16
  how I navigate my friendships, desire of checking in, said from someone who does this at a high
• 36:23
  level to me, and not to anybody else to me, etches into your brain in a very strange way. And,
• 36:30
  and I just want to talk about the story specifically. He came onto the podcast because of a few things.
• 36:36
  It was, we had a nice branded website. We had a reasonably branded pitch deck. We had,
• 36:44
  what a set is a reasonably, like a reasonably reasonably branded pitch deck. It's just like, I
• 36:48
  want to see what a reasonably branded pitch deck looks like. You've got the pitch deck.
• 36:54
  Do I have it? Oh, shit. Well, clearly, maybe the pitch deck doesn't matter. No one reads a
• 37:00
  pitch deck. But yeah, we have the pitch deck links with the website, the kind of, the reasons why
• 37:06
  the podcast are clear, like why the podcast is just so clear, like the pillars are there, the pillars
• 37:11
  are health, wealth and wisdom. It's like, it's, it's easy enough to digest. The trust is built
• 37:17
  from that element. And we've done 70 episodes. So it's like, not a flash in the pan. He doesn't
• 37:24
  know who the hell I am before I reached out to him. But we've done 70 episodes, one of those
• 37:29
  episodes hit and went kind of viral, which means we've had some success. And that was the one with
• 37:36
  one of the, that one has like 120,000 views on YouTube. And it was interviewing the lead singer of
• 37:44
  an old metal band from New York. And he turns out he has a crazy story and a crazy viral, like a
• 37:51
  crazy, like die hard fan base. He's, he's serious. That's that. And the episode is, I'll send you it
• 38:00
  later. But the episode itself is, it's, and this is a funny point. I, when I did that episode,
• 38:07
  right, it was really hard to get him on because he's like, he lives in Tulum. He's in his,
• 38:13
  probably late 50s now. We randomly met because I was in Tulum for two months. We kept crossing past.
• 38:21
  He takes a call on, on his laptop, without a mic, sitting on his like rooftop looking,
• 38:30
  overlooking the jungle in Tulum. He's vaping. He's topless full of tattoos.
• 38:35
  That's so funny. He didn't even give a shit. I don't know.
• 38:39
  But I thought to myself, oh, this episode is going to be like really rough. And then it's the
• 38:42
  one that popped. So you don't know when it's going to go. Yeah. That's another thing. That's so true.
• 38:47
  It's so true. And then, and then, so you're to your point or to what I mentioned before,
• 38:52
  but you still have to work at it because not all 120,000 of those people are going to
• 38:58
  listen to the next one. No, of course not. But it's just, it's just a moment in time that shows
• 39:03
  a person that I don't know that, okay, this guy is worth at least considering. And then,
• 39:09
  I had a good cold email. I found his email on LinkedIn, emailed him. They said, yes, he came on.
• 39:15
  I see. You didn't, you didn't talk to him at all? No. No, no, no, no. This is like Chris Voss,
• 39:21
  I didn't talk to him. Oh, shit. It's going back to the Chris Voss thing. Yeah, yeah. I knew
• 39:24
  that the one that went fine, but getting back to Chris Voss, it's like, there's a little bit of
• 39:28
  success. And then it's a well structured cold email that clearly shows value and that there's,
• 39:35
  this has been done a number of times. It's not a complete waste of time and considering
• 39:40
  what they would want out of it, which was content. They, you know, I said, you can license this
• 39:44
  long form. You can have the clips. I don't care. Like, that's what you want. You can have it.
• 39:50
  All I want is to speak to you. And he came on. And you just got to move fast. Like, he's like,
• 39:55
  when do you want to do it? Here's my link. Book it in. Done. No fucking around.
• 40:00
  And that in my head, probably five years ago, version of me reading, never spent the difference,
• 40:06
  would never, ever, ever have thought that I would be speaking to him. And that's podcast.
• 40:14
  I mean, I've had, I've had a lot of moments like that. I mean, if you, if you just keep going,
• 40:19
  you'll just have repeat moments like that. I actually started wanting to become an entrepreneur
• 40:26
  because I was listening to Seth Godin's Akimbo podcast in a car ride back from, I can't remember where
• 40:32
  it was somewhere in the US. I was like driving back to Toronto. And it was like, I didn't do a lot
• 40:37
  of road trips, but this was a road trip. And I was like tired of music. So I was like, okay,
• 40:42
  let me just find some business podcasts and like listen to them. And I remember him telling a
• 40:46
  story about, oh my God, I'm blanking on the story now. What's the story?
• 40:55
  I always tell this story too. And I'm going to blank on it one second. I got to look up this story,
• 41:00
  one second. I'm going to find this story because I forget the guy's name and it's going to bug me.
• 41:09
  Who's the guy? Icarus. Oh my God. That's what I'm talking about. Okay. So he was telling a story
• 41:15
  about Icarus. And the story about Icarus basically goes very, very short version as a guy flew
• 41:21
  too close to the sun and got burnt. But like Seth Godin was kind of like tongue in cheeking it,
• 41:26
  saying like, hey, if you're going to be an entrepreneur, and these are not Seth Godin's words
• 41:29
  because he's a poet. And I'm going to bastardism, but everything he says, but basically Cole's
• 41:34
  notes was he said, listen, if you're an entrepreneur and trying to build something, don't worry,
• 41:40
  fly close to the sun, you're not going to get burnt. And I'm like, oh, so powerful goose bumps.
• 41:44
  I have to become an entrepreneur now. Seth Godin gave me the permission through his podcast,
• 41:48
  to become an entrepreneur. And I know that if I'm going to try and do this, I'm going to be okay.
• 41:53
  It's very scary when you first, when you, when you leave nine to five and try and build something
• 41:57
  yourself, right? Very unnerving feeling. I don't know that feeling. I've never got a job.
• 42:03
  Yeah, I have. I have. I have. I mean, good jobs, but I mean, still it's like, there's no more safety
• 42:08
  net. And when you start, right, you don't think of, I think that also, I think you're a little
• 42:13
  bit younger than me. And I think that 32 are, you're not that much younger than me that. I'm 34.
• 42:18
  Yeah, 32. Not that much. It's like a child. It's the, it's the conch shells around the neck.
• 42:26
  I'm like the surfer vibe or whatever the, you have like, I haven't worn, I remember it was like,
• 42:33
  what was it? Like, like grade eight, when you'd wear like the Abercrombie polo with like the white
• 42:38
  shell necklace around like the pop collar. And it's like the ultimate like douchebag get up.
• 42:49
  I love that. Pretty much. Anyway, so yeah, so that was sort of, that was like my introduction to
• 42:56
  entrepreneurship. And then when I started the podcast, obviously, we showed to him and he said,
• 43:00
  no, the first time. And then since then, like fast forward six years, he, he's come on, come on
• 43:06
  once. He's coming on again in I think a couple weeks. So like you have these like meet your hero
• 43:13
  moments quite often when you do this because you just start meeting cooler and cooler and cooler
• 43:18
  people. So it's a lot of fun. And then it'll get, you know, you know, it'll, you know, it'll be a
• 43:24
  mind fuck for you when you interview somebody who's listened to your podcast and then they're a
• 43:29
  little bit nervous because they're meeting you for the first time. That's also that also message
• 43:33
  with you. Or when you, when you get recognized in public from the, from the show, that also messes
• 43:37
  with you. So funny. I'm ready. I'm ready. I've been training for this moment. I'm practicing
• 43:43
  your autograph. So yeah. Oh, I actually found that there was a, I started randomly getting fed ads
• 43:51
  to have like a custom autograph template thing mailed to you. So you give them your name and some
• 44:00
  like calligraphy creates an autograph for you. And then you just get like books worth of like
• 44:05
  practice. That's smart actually. Yeah. It's a business. So I always use to practice my autograph
• 44:11
  because I wanted to play in the NHL and obviously you have to have a good autograph. So I would like
• 44:15
  when I was playing hockey, I'd like find a way to include my number in the autograph and obviously
• 44:20
  nine. I know I have this like shitty little signature. But at one point I cared about it.
• 44:24
  I'm time to bring back the autograph practice for when this podcast grows to the next level.
• 44:29
  Exactly. Have you ever seen them? There's like a viral clip of like Mike Cena
• 44:36
  signing all of his own merch before like WWE, whatever events. And he like would sign like
• 44:43
  10,000 pizzas of his own. But you mean John Cena? John Cena. Yeah. My little brother Mike.
• 44:48
  Oh my god. John Cena. Oh man, it's a Friday. I am shocked that I'm doing this much of a deep
• 44:57
  dive on podcasting on a Friday. But then I realized he was bullshitting half the time.
• 45:01
  Yes. John Cena. My god. I don't know who I was thinking of.
• 45:04
  Yes. So he signs all his own merch and he was like there's this viral clip of him signing like
• 45:09
  it was like 10,000 pieces of merch and it took him like it was like an hour and a half and he's
• 45:13
  just like it's hands like killing after. So you know what? I can only I can only hope and pray that
• 45:19
  one day I have to deal with problems like that. Yeah. That's a crazy that's a crazy problem to have
• 45:24
  but there's always problems. Regardless of what you're doing. There's always challenges.
• 45:28
  You're always doing streams. Trains. Those are very those are very good problems that have
• 45:33
  definitely. Hey, look, I want a deep dive a bit more into the podcast business itself.
• 45:37
  We've spoken a lot on a high level. So you mentioned there's different
• 45:40
  different pillars of content. So what are the different content pillars?
• 45:45
  So in terms of just like where the part goes after it's like goals for people.
• 45:52
  So what are the different reasons why people listen to content in the first place or view content
• 45:58
  like entertainment etc. So I think that yeah. So I think that there's a few reasons why people
• 46:03
  listen to content. I think that I think that deep down the reasons are they probably stem from
• 46:14
  social interaction and or it's probably social interaction, financial betterment. There's
• 46:23
  something along those lines because if I think about why do people listen to content.
• 46:27
  Yes, they want to learn but why do they want to learn? They want to learn so they sound smarter
• 46:32
  with their friends or they want to learn so they get the next promotion or they want to learn
• 46:37
  so they can start a company. Like there is some motive and incentive there to to learn.
• 46:43
  If you think about humor content, well why do people watch humor content? They want to be entertained,
• 46:47
  they want to seem funny to their friends when they share a meme and there's also just information
• 46:52
  where people want to sort of seem in the nose. So there's always, if you're going to create content,
• 46:58
  you have to think about how is this accomplishing some sort of objective or motivation for the person
• 47:05
  who's listening to it. It doesn't really matter. There's no there's no ranking of which motivations
• 47:10
  are better or worse. It doesn't make no difference but know that it has to tap into the motivation
• 47:16
  of a person. Like what does that person want to accomplish? And it's okay that person wants to
• 47:20
  upskill and be smarter and maybe they want to get that promotion. They want to have more to talk
• 47:26
  about when they're at a social event. Whatever it is, that's fine but you have to know what that is
• 47:31
  and you have to serve that to them. And yeah, I think that's why there's only so many types of
• 47:36
  content that really resonate. I mean, it's news, it's entertainment, it's education, it's pretty much
• 47:41
  it. Like if your content doesn't do one of those three things, it's not going to really hit home
• 47:47
  with anybody. So that's how I think about content. Obviously, I chose education information.
• 47:56
  That's the type of content I enjoy doing too. Like it has to be something that you actually enjoy
• 48:01
  speaking about. I've thought about this a lot. I look at humor podcasts and stuff that
• 48:09
  grow so quickly and it's frustrating because it seems like guys just like bullshitting and whatnot.
• 48:15
  But is it something that you want to do? Is it something that you want to create? And it's not
• 48:18
  easy to create that kind of content either. The energy and the charisma and the personality
• 48:23
  you have to bring to that to very different skill set than being able to interview somebody and
• 48:27
  pull out wisdom and insight. So it's just as difficult. It's just a different kind of content.
• 48:32
  And you have to decide as a creator, what do you want to create? And for me, this was a type of
• 48:37
  content I wanted to create. And I think that ties back to, can I stay in this game long enough?
• 48:43
  If I was doing content that I felt was not fun for me to create or not exciting or was
• 48:49
  not aligned with who I am as a person, I don't think I could stick with it long enough.
• 48:54
  Yeah, exactly. You have to love it and you have to love doing it without being paid because
• 48:59
  you won't be paid for a long time if you want to make this a career. But eventually, as you said,
• 49:04
  you know, I'll let you know when it happens, but eventually you do get paid.
• 49:09
  Well, you said you had a sponsor, no? We've had two. Yeah, we've got two. We've got a current
• 49:12
  lifestyle. So use up here for your content. I guess I got paid for my content. Does that make
• 49:17
  you a professional? Or does it make you a professional? The more you get paid, the more I'm
• 49:21
  distracted. Listen, dude, I'm just taking a sports analogy. I think the second you get paid for
• 49:28
  something, you become a professional. Okay. Well, I'll take it. So on that note, when should you
• 49:33
  start a podcast? Yesterday? It's for everybody. Like, why should you start a podcast? Why should
• 49:41
  you start a podcast? And then when should you start a podcast if you think the why is there?
• 49:44
  Yeah. I think that we spoke about sort of the types of content that hit home with people. I think
• 49:52
  that as a creator, you have to decide what type of content you enjoy creating. I chose podcasts
• 50:00
  I like talking to cool people. And I also knew that fit into like my marketing mind knew that it
• 50:06
  would fit into my content distribution strategy. And I would achieve success quicker because I knew
• 50:10
  that I could leverage that pillar content and distribute it everywhere. However, I was comfortable
• 50:17
  with audio and video and interviewing people and doing the research and turning the long-form video
• 50:23
  and then doing the post-production and then editing it and then turning it into a newsletter.
• 50:27
  I was comfortable with all those things. So you did all that yourself? Yeah, I did everything
• 50:32
  myself. You still didn't like it? No, not anymore. Now I have a team. I have five people. I have a
• 50:38
  CMO and he has four people to do post-production. What was a lift? What was a lift on all of the
• 50:42
  like filming, editing, uploading to all the channels? Yeah, yeah. I'd say about eight hours per
• 50:50
  episode. It's not a crazy amount. No. I was pretty good. I mean, so just to give context,
• 50:59
  me being entrepreneurial and working in like startup environments has been a huge advantage
• 51:04
  to the podcast. It's not even a question. I have done almost every business function myself
• 51:11
  at some point, including up to not coding app but coding websites. So yes, I'm not a developer,
• 51:18
  but I can audit code. I can see something doesn't work or doesn't make sense or there's hygiene
• 51:25
  issues with it. I would code my own websites, which is really just HTML and CSS, but still that's
• 51:30
  more than some people. I would do my own piano. It's very difficult now with cursor and
• 51:35
  Claude. No, but keep in mind that I didn't have any of that when I was still building. I was
• 51:41
  using WordPress. The point of making is the excuses are even lower now because it's very quickly.
• 51:51
  Yeah, it's 100%. But like in startup land, I've done the technical side, financial side,
• 51:58
  owning a P&L. I've hired people. I put out job postings. I've set up all the tools,
• 52:06
  all the software, like SaaS tools that a team would have to use for basically any business unit.
• 52:10
  I've set up the marketing campaigns. I've set up the ads and done the targeting. I've
• 52:18
  done the sales sequencing. I've done the sales call. I've done it all. I've done everything.
• 52:22
  So for me, it was like, okay, what's the type of content? I already know how to do all the tasks
• 52:27
  associated with distribution and growing an audience. So what's the type of content I like to do?
• 52:32
  If I wasn't sort of like this startup in the weeds person, then maybe podcasting videos
• 52:39
  like very overwhelming for me. And maybe I just want to write, which is also cool. But the point
• 52:44
  is you have to understand your strengths, right? Your strengths. What is it? The Iki guy,
• 52:50
  which is I think like your strengths. What the market needs and what you can monetize is a
• 52:55
  rough. Something on my side. Yeah. Basically, you see some bend diagram of what you're good at with
• 53:01
  the market needs and what you can monetize. And this made a lot of sense for me. Now again,
• 53:06
  if you're talking to all creators, maybe you find that your content or the type of content you
• 53:12
  like to make is more short form content. Or maybe you don't like being in front of a camera. Like
• 53:17
  Gina, I mentioned, my therapist says earlier, she does memes. And they built this massive
• 53:24
  media portfolio of companies that have a whole bunch of memes. And they started their account
• 53:28
  when they were when there was like a betches and fat Jewish and fuck Jerry and all these meme
• 53:33
  accounts. A lot of them in New York, a lot of people in New York know my therapist says it's
• 53:36
  one of their largest audiences. Actually, if you talk to most women in New York, they'll follow
• 53:41
  my therapist says, or I'm not joking, you do it as an experiment. But if you don't like putting
• 53:48
  your face out there, there's an option. If you're only putting your face out there and your
• 53:52
  great writer started newsletter on sub-stack, beehive, convert kit, whatever it is. So yeah,
• 53:58
  you got to figure out what you're comfortable with because what you're comfortable with is going
• 54:00
  to tie back into the first idea that I had, which is you're going to be able to do it for a long
• 54:04
  enough period of time. Yes, there is something to be said for pushing yourself outside your comfort
• 54:08
  zone. However, pushing yourself outside your comfort zone to take on a brand new thing when
• 54:13
  there's not even money involved, I'd say is not just pushing yourself outside your comfort zone.
• 54:17
  I say that you're almost setting yourself up for failure. So I would say, oh, there's a key
• 54:22
  guide. Yeah, a key guide. That's what you're good at. What you're good at. What you love,
• 54:26
  what the world needs and what you can be paid for. So basically, the passion is what you love
• 54:31
  and what you're good at. Mission is what you love and what people need. Vocations, what you can be
• 54:35
  paid for and what people need. And then all for a combination, that is your yikigai. Perfect.
• 54:42
  So now we're only going to be guys. No, we know. But yeah, I would say that's my best advice
• 54:48
  because you can make a living doing anything as a creator. But again, how do you make a living?
• 54:54
  You have to stay in the game long enough, which means you have to do the thing that's already
• 54:58
  going to be tough work with as little friction as possible. Yeah. So on that note, what do you need
• 55:06
  to have, you know, maybe equipment-wise, skillset-wise, basically to be a podcast. Yeah, to start a
• 55:12
  podcast. So to start a podcast, you definitely don't need to do what I'm doing right now and what
• 55:18
  you see on like diary of a CEO, which is I think like six cameras or five cameras. Seven cameras.
• 55:23
  I noticed, I noticed, because we look, we model off all of the really big podcasts and try and
• 55:28
  like take ideas from, you know, that we like and put into our spin. But I noticed that the
• 55:34
  in-person podcast, which is crazy, they have the mic and then on the mic is a camera. I was like,
• 55:40
  that's such a good idea. So there's a mic and there's a camera pointing. Yeah, it's like a mini camera
• 55:46
  pointing to the other person on the other side. So there must be some form of like
• 55:53
  housing that allows a mic and a camera to exist. What's the shot? The shot is like the point
• 56:02
  that the front from like face to face shot if that makes sense. So the mic goes that way and the camera
• 56:08
  shoots to the guest and the other camera shoots to the host. I've never seen them cut to that angle.
• 56:15
  You'll see it now. If you look at the new ones and you look at like the setup, you'll see it if
• 56:20
  you really look into it. That's a brilliant idea. Anyway, it's smart. It's very smart. So that would
• 56:26
  make it so that because they have, they have one camera on a track, which I have and then they have
• 56:31
  two cameras and then I think they have another two cameras. So one, two, three, four, five and then
• 56:36
  oh yeah, then the mic cameras would be six, seven cameras. Seven cameras. I didn't know we need to start.
• 56:42
  No, no, no, no, no. But this guy, you know, this guy had a different goal. Like he already made his
• 56:47
  money. He didn't give a shit. He was having fun with it. He was like, if we're going to do it,
• 56:51
  I want to do it. I think you said in 2021 and that that deep dive episode he did, he's like,
• 56:56
  we spent a hundred grand on our setup or like 80 grand. So I'm just a big number. And another thing
• 57:02
  I did an episode with Kate Tollo who works with Brian Johnson and she went on diover seo and she
• 57:10
  said on my podcast that he has a button that clips under his desk. This little button that presses
• 57:19
  every time he has a clip. So he like in person can clip moments that then the editors can,
• 57:25
  I didn't even know how that technology would work. I think it's very custom. He would have something
• 57:31
  he would have to yeah, he would have to well, it depends on the camera, but you can feed information
• 57:38
  back to the cameras if you have the right setup. Like if you have the so if you have like black magic
• 57:45
  cameras and black magic mixer, I think you can feed information back and forth. I listen,
• 57:51
  like technical enough, I'm not that technical, but it's very interesting. But so to start to start,
• 57:58
  you don't need any of that. I mean to start, I would say audio quality matters so you can get
• 58:04
  it out. No, it's all put away now. You can do like, oh, what's that? This is a sure SM7 DB.
• 58:11
  Yeah, this is what I've got as well. But you don't need this. This is with the with the
• 58:16
  lifter included. That's about 500 bucks, which is expensive again. But there's the little,
• 58:22
  oh my god, Yeti, the Yeti mic, which is kind of like the de facto starter USB mic. That's a good
• 58:27
  start. There's also a sure mic, which is like $190. It's something cheap. Yeah, it's there's
• 58:33
  also a sure mic that is USB because this is XLR. So you could get a sure mic that's USB that plugs
• 58:40
  right into your computer, which is also easy. This is what I'm doing. So so I bought after the
• 58:45
  recommendation from you, you said to get the sure SM7B because I was on the road, the little road
• 58:51
  mic. Yeah, yeah. And it just didn't sound as good. This is the sure SM7B, not the DB because the DB
• 58:58
  has like the lifter. And then I bought a separate lifter that also turns into a USB C and then that
• 59:05
  USB C goes into the laptop. Yeah, so that's perfect. So it sounds great. And I think if I remember the
• 59:09
  first time you were pitching when we first started, then I had to get you to turn down your volume.
• 59:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I didn't fuck it up. I looked like I was doing like 10 episodes with
• 59:21
  our settings. How good is it sound now? It sounds phenomenal. No, it's completely different.
• 59:26
  It's a whole nother level. Yeah, yeah, that's so. So yeah, so I would say, listen, USB mic,
• 59:31
  Yeti is fine or you can do a little bit more expensive. I personally recommend that you always
• 59:39
  start with video because then you have the content to clip out. Riverside is a great platform for
• 59:44
  recording. You can use zoom as well. It works just as fine. Riverside is going to get you a higher
• 59:49
  quality recording because it records locally and it uploads after the fact. I actually switch back
• 59:55
  to zoom funny enough. I switch back to enterprise. Interesting. For my reason why is because I used to
• 1:00:02
  some company that I was working on that was eventually acquired is it was a video, it was a streaming
• 1:00:08
  company. That was a piece of what we did. I know for a fact that video is very complex technology.
• 1:00:16
  It's very difficult to get right. Riverside is a web app and zoom is a desktop app. The difference
• 1:00:24
  between a web app and a desktop app is maybe about almost insignificant latency but significant
• 1:00:33
  enough that it rooms the natural flow. In most in some cases of a conversation,
• 1:00:39
  unless your internet is exceptional. So how do you zoom for a podcast now? Let me
• 1:00:46
  through the recording process of that. I mean, it's a you it's enterprise zoom. So we get
• 1:00:51
  1080p recording on their end and I find that there's a better chance of the conversation not having
• 1:00:57
  any latency or lag which in my opinion creates a better vibe and a psychologically comfortable spot
• 1:01:05
  for the guests to open up because they feel like we're having as close to an in-person conversation
• 1:01:09
  as you possibly can virtual. Riverside is great. I used it for a while. However, there's going to be
• 1:01:14
  times where you have latency in between when I speak and you hear me and that latency just keeps
• 1:01:21
  reminding people that they're on a call and it's very hard to get them to be comfortable enough
• 1:01:26
  because they keep thinking about call and it's almost like you can't have a live conversation.
• 1:01:30
  Now it's actually much better than it used to be. Yeah, I mean, zoom is zoom. You set up a link.
• 1:01:37
  It records in high definition. Now I'm paying for enterprise zoom. So I get 1080 on the guest side
• 1:01:44
  and on my side, my camera is such bad advice because we're supposed to talk about how to get started
• 1:01:50
  but my camera is an FX30 and my FX30 can record at the same time as its streams.
• 1:01:58
  So that means that I get a 4k recording of me. I get a 1080 of the guest and the guests can
• 1:02:04
  also see me as we're streaming. It works. It works for me. Also keep in mind that I'm trying to
• 1:02:10
  retire the virtual as much as possible which is why I set up a studio behind me. So this is like,
• 1:02:16
  this is sort of, it's working for now. The only thing I'm missing by using zoom would be
• 1:02:23
  potential 4k on the guest side. But I found that potential 4k on the guest side is not worth
• 1:02:29
  ruining the conversation which has happened in the past. That's the only thing. And Riverside should
• 1:02:35
  take note and actually turn it into an app because then it would blow zoom out of the water.
• 1:02:39
  I think I have an app but it's not very good app. So that's, it's just because if you download
• 1:02:45
  software on your computer and you load it and you work through that, it will always be better than
• 1:02:48
  web. Web cannot work as well as an app ever. Like full stop. The technology does not compete.
• 1:02:55
  Anyway, so to start, ignore everything I just said. Just start. You need Riverside or zoom.
• 1:03:04
  You need a mic. And then you can use your phone which is probably the, like you can get a webcam.
• 1:03:10
  If you want to get a webcam, get like a Logitech Brio which is wild to think that I think it's been
• 1:03:15
  out for like six years and it still seems to be one of the better webcams available. Or what you can
• 1:03:20
  do is I did this for a while. There is an app on your phone and I'll tell you exactly what it is but
• 1:03:27
  it turns your phone into a webcam. And I found that everybody has a phone which has like a great
• 1:03:33
  camera on it. So that's the phone as a webcam is going to be a better, it's going to be a better
• 1:03:40
  camera than like a Logitech Brio. And the app or any webcam really. And the app is called Camo.
• 1:03:48
  C-A-M-O. And it turns your phone into a webcam and it's phenomenal. And then you just need a little
• 1:03:57
  stand to put your phone on. And make sure you put your phone on. Do not disturb or airplane mode.
• 1:04:01
  So you don't get a call that kills your video halfway through the podcast. But that's how you
• 1:04:06
  start. And then you pick a hosting provider. Obviously, I just told you to record videos. You're
• 1:04:12
  going to be recording video. You're going to post that up on YouTube and then you're going to go
• 1:04:15
  to megaphone or Libson or Red Circle. I use Red Circle right now. I've used megaphone in the past.
• 1:04:21
  They're all great. They all have different functions and purposes. Choose the one that works for you.
• 1:04:25
  And then upload your podcast and then start to market it and then build out a routine and
• 1:04:31
  end a cadence and show up every single week and don't stop and don't get discouraged when
• 1:04:36
  your first couple of episodes don't get downloads. But that's how you start. It's really not
• 1:04:41
  expensive or complicated. And I would say if you do make money, roll it back into the podcast.
• 1:04:47
  Find a way to make it so that any advertiser dollars come in, you roll it right back into the
• 1:04:51
  podcast and then remove yourself from the process as soon as possible by using Upwork or Fiverr
• 1:04:58
  to take care of the day-to-day tasks. I mean, even so my CMO that I have right now, his name's
• 1:05:03
  Ali. I think it was Upwork. I originally started working with him as a video editor and he built
• 1:05:11
  out an entire, this is obviously a unique case, but he built out an entire marketing agency.
• 1:05:16
  And we worked together the entire time and now he manages the team takes care of my show.
• 1:05:22
  But I mean, at the beginning it was just building a relationship with somebody who checked
• 1:05:26
  off one box and then I knew that he had aspirations to build out a lot more. So he just wasn't the
• 1:05:32
  editor just doing the work. He wanted to use very entrepreneurial, which I love, which is why we
• 1:05:35
  still work together. We're very much kindred spirits. And he built out a whole agency around
• 1:05:40
  podcast editing. And now he has a whole bunch of people to work for him and he manages the team
• 1:05:46
  as opposed to doing the work himself, but he's been great. So I mean, find great people is also the
• 1:05:51
  other solution to any business problem, but you need a little bit of money to do that. So you have
• 1:05:56
  to find a way to do it to the point where you make money, then you roll that money into removing
• 1:06:01
  some of those tasks off your plate. So how many, let's just say in total full time hours,
• 1:06:08
  do you think you're spending with this podcast? Like you said, you have five people working for you.
• 1:06:11
  What's your like weekly, weekly time commitment to a podcast now? Are you releasing weekly or bio
• 1:06:19
  weekly? What's your, no, I'm doing, I'm doing two to three a week. Okay. So you've got a
• 1:06:23
  bit of time into it. Yeah, but that's because I have a team supporting me. So I would say the time
• 1:06:30
  the time for me invested in the podcast. I like to do, I like to do, so I have a tiny bit of
• 1:06:40
  help with the research, but I do a lot of my own research for the shows. So I spent a couple hours
• 1:06:46
  doing the research and then I show up as a talent and I record and then everything else after that
• 1:06:50
  is, is a team. So you've probably got like four, five hours of work plus a little bit of management.
• 1:06:57
  Maybe a day a week. Yeah, but a day, maybe a day and episode, a day and episode, but then I'll,
• 1:07:04
  like I also enjoy, like creative things, like I enjoy writing. So sometimes I'll take a topic
• 1:07:09
  that we speak about and I'll spend a couple hours writing a newsletter about it. I mean,
• 1:07:13
  that's hours, but it's something I enjoy and I find that writing really like helps clarify my
• 1:07:20
  thoughts and it helps, it helps my thinking process and it just, I find it to be a very therapeutic
• 1:07:26
  exercise. So I really, really enjoy it. But that's, I guess, hours that you could add or subtract
• 1:07:31
  from the podcast. It's not directly related to the podcast, but it's all content, personal, brand
• 1:07:35
  stuff. So yeah, I would say, yeah, as well. So Ali, who I mentioned, he's CMO, he manages,
• 1:07:44
  and then probably like two days a week, do you think? Yeah, I think, yeah, maybe a little bit more
• 1:07:52
  than that, a little bit more than that. But yeah, I mean, I don't have that. So the actual hours,
• 1:07:57
  I can probably pull a list of like how many hours I contribute to every single piece of it.
• 1:08:02
  But so audio video, copywriting, you have a separate copywriter? Yes. And then graphic design. And then
• 1:08:14
  kind of like admin assistant, executive assistant for posting across social platforms. Yeah, that
• 1:08:20
  makes sense. So right now for me, we've, you know, again, much smaller on the output, but it's me doing
• 1:08:27
  the, uh, guest booking, the research, guest booking is, I forgot about that piece. The guest booking
• 1:08:35
  is just to touch on that IDM, a lot of people. And then I also get a whole bunch of inbound,
• 1:08:40
  which I review myself. So that would be a couple hours as well. I forgot that piece.
• 1:08:44
  Yes. Yeah. So, which is probably one of the most important parts. And I think I like the
• 1:08:48
  personal touch of it, of the guest booking, and then, and then dealing with the like advertising.
• 1:08:55
  So I, which we'll get into later, for me, I do that. And then I've got Joe, who's my editor, he does
• 1:09:01
  the editing of the videos and the audio uploading that to all the channels. He does a social media,
• 1:09:09
  posting, makes a clips, and does just like the thumbnails, and we're going to work together on
• 1:09:14
  the thumbnails and stuff. And then I've got a VA who I've recently given a role of each week,
• 1:09:19
  just doing the, the comms. So she'll take all the content off YouTube. And then she'll put it on
• 1:09:26
  to Twitter, yeah, uh, sub stack, the website link. Similar, similar ish workflow. I mean, there's only
• 1:09:34
  some things you can really do. But the standard is probably a bit lower because, you know, I've got a
• 1:09:38
  VA that's doing it through chat GPT. She's not, she's not going to be writing. And I'm not, I don't
• 1:09:43
  have the space to hire it right up. No, no, I know. But I mean, like, you know the jobs to be done,
• 1:09:48
  and you know what you, I mean, again, there's, there's even points like now when I have to step in
• 1:09:54
  and help out with something. I just try and, again, this is more like a, this is less of a podcast
• 1:09:59
  discussion, more of like a hiring the right people discussion. But Ali, in my opinion, is a, like,
• 1:10:04
  an A player kind of higher. He's very entrepreneurial. Uh, he is building his own business, which is fine,
• 1:10:11
  obviously, because he's not full time. But he spends a lot of his time dedicated to me and, and the show.
• 1:10:16
  But I enjoy that because he's always upskilling himself and he's always learning himself. He's
• 1:10:21
  killing it. And then when you have people like that working for you, they're going to hire other
• 1:10:24
  people that are also A player. So, and so then I, again, this is not like, it's not like been all
• 1:10:30
  easy. It's not like we haven't made misses on who we brought into the, into the company.
• 1:10:35
  But ultimately, if you hire the, you know, the, if you, if the person you hire, the C-suite,
• 1:10:43
  the direct report is an A player. They're only going to be comfortable with other A players. And
• 1:10:47
  then it's just going to help you build a healthy organization. Um, so I don't micromanage at all.
• 1:10:53
  I, I actually ask Ali and the team for ideas. Um, if we want to do something, and he comes to me,
• 1:11:00
  even without me asking for like different ideas that he wants to try. And I'm like, yes, sure. Like,
• 1:11:05
  it's just, it's just the people, the people make a break in organization. It's not, that's not
• 1:11:09
  unique to podcasting. But, um, yeah, I think that's also why you should always be hiring. I
• 1:11:14
  always be looking for new great people. Just quickly though, I want to talk to you about a taboo,
• 1:11:19
  but very important topic, sperm health. I bet you didn't think I was going there.
• 1:11:23
  One day, I want to have kids. And like any future parent, I want to give them the best shot at a
• 1:11:28
  healthy life. But let's face it, we're at a war every day with our health in this modern world.
• 1:11:33
  Chemicals, microplastics, and artificial environments are wreaking havoc on our internal systems
• 1:11:38
  at every turn. And if you know me, you know, I'm obsessed with health. And the health of my
• 1:11:42
  swimmers have been on my mind for a number of years. That's why we've partnered with Legacy,
• 1:11:47
  who are changing the game in at-home sperm testing and freezing in the US. Did you know that globally
• 1:11:53
  sperm counts have dropped by 50% in the last 40 years? Let that sink in for one moment. This is not
• 1:12:00
  just a fertility problem as well. Because low sperm quality has been linked to a high risk of
• 1:12:04
  testicular cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and even early death. And on top of that, your sperm
• 1:12:10
  quality begins to decline around age 30 and by your 40s, the risk of infertility and having a
• 1:12:15
  chance of a child with neurological disorder begins to go up. So testing and freezing now,
• 1:12:21
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• 1:12:26
  easy. They send a kit straight to your door. You do the business in the comfort of your own home.
• 1:12:31
  And in 48 hours, the results are on your phone. Plus, you can freeze your sample at two
• 1:12:36
  secure locations for peace of mind. So if you're like me and you want to be proactive with your
• 1:12:40
  future, as well as support podcasts, head over to givelegacy.com and use the code TOT at checkout
• 1:12:46
  for 10% off. That's givelegacy.com using the code TOT for 10% off. Thanks for listening. Now back
• 1:12:54
  to the podcast. So you mentioned two to three episodes a week. What was the reasoning behind doing that?
• 1:13:02
  Because we can do it. Okay. It's more content better versus polish content. Where
• 1:13:09
  I think that I don't think you should do. I don't yeah. No, it's not. If you can't do good at
• 1:13:15
  three episodes a week, then don't do them. That's my that's my feedback. The type of show that we do
• 1:13:23
  with the prep that we're able to do. I don't think that interviews come across as unpolished.
• 1:13:29
  If they were, I wouldn't put them up. I don't think for example, with the style of content that we do,
• 1:13:36
  if we like I could change the style of content and I could be doing a four-hour interview with
• 1:13:40
  somebody that's a different style of content. With an hour to an hour and a half interview,
• 1:13:45
  I feel like the quality of the content is very good and I think that it competes with some of the
• 1:13:50
  best. Now if we were doing the type of and I also do virtual, I've decided that that's an okay
• 1:13:57
  piece of my show. I don't mind that. If I was doing all in person and it would probably be scaled
• 1:14:03
  down a little bit because I wouldn't want to compromise a quality. If we were doing a show like
• 1:14:07
  acquired where they do a month's worth of research before they put together an episode, it's just a
• 1:14:13
  different style of show. So I found that and I by the way, I have dialed back the quantity
• 1:14:21
  because the quality isn't there. So there's been many weeks where it's been one episode a week.
• 1:14:26
  We've just built out a process that I think allows us to deliver quality and quantity at the level
• 1:14:32
  that we're at repeatedly. And if I felt like if I felt like things were hurting or things weren't
• 1:14:39
  working well, then we take it back until we get the process, then we can scale up again. And that's
• 1:14:44
  always been like I'll always try and push and do more but do more better. And if we can't, then we
• 1:14:50
  bring it back again. But it never sacrificed. I personally don't agree on
• 1:14:56
  I personally, a lot of people have different opinions and not to say that there's shows that are
• 1:15:01
  not good quality, but there's shows that put out episodes daily and multiple episodes a day,
• 1:15:06
  just wild to me. And I think that you could blur the lines of quality when you start to get to
• 1:15:11
  that level. But it depends. I mean, you could there's news companies that put out news is 24.7
• 1:15:18
  and they're high quality. Look at the quality of the content these days. Well, listen,
• 1:15:24
  okay. So in terms of content, it's it's not quality per se, but it's very highly produced. And
• 1:15:33
  it's a huge team that supports it, right? It's a multi-billion dollar organization or whatever
• 1:15:38
  or industry. So I think that you if I could produce a high quality interview once per day,
• 1:15:45
  great. The only thing that would be limiting me there would be my own like energy level. So my
• 1:15:49
  own. But if I had for like to push back on what you just mentioned, if I had a full researcher,
• 1:15:58
  I had like I had I don't even know what else I would really need to do that. Probably be research,
• 1:16:04
  a really good researcher researcher. Yeah, like like you're talking like paying somebody like a
• 1:16:09
  hundred grand a year just to book guests. I mean, it gets to the point where I have nothing else to do.
• 1:16:14
  If I don't have another like if I not work on anything else, then well, yeah, I can sit down
• 1:16:21
  and talk for two hours a day. It's not really that much work. If I had like if I had twice as many
• 1:16:27
  editors and we could we could push out, you know, twice as many clips, it's just a it's just a
• 1:16:31
  money problem. The end of the day if you want to do more because most people can handle talking
• 1:16:37
  to somebody for two hours a day, especially if you if you do it if you do it daily, you're going to
• 1:16:42
  get very good at it very quickly. But I think that sometimes people maybe try and rush and then
• 1:16:47
  that quality suffers. But it also depends on your type of content. So if it's more casual and it's
• 1:16:52
  less prepared and it's like two guys just like if we just like rift once a day, maybe the audience
• 1:16:59
  likes the casual maybe the audience likes the unscripted and then it works. You just got to know your
• 1:17:03
  audience at the end of the day. What if you don't have an audience so you don't know your audience
• 1:17:08
  and you want to know the people that are closest to you. You have friends, you talk to people who
• 1:17:13
  are close to you. And then you also so you you talk to people who you're close as to you send them
• 1:17:17
  your episode and you ask them what they think of it. And you're also a consumer. So you have to
• 1:17:22
  understand what do you like if I was going to create from scratch, which kind of is what I did,
• 1:17:27
  I looked at what I listened to and then I reverse engineered how that happened and how was put
• 1:17:31
  together. And then I started my first version was something similar to that. And then I've had
• 1:17:37
  I've had different people that I reverse engineered their content based on the type of content I
• 1:17:41
  want to put into the world. And I learned from other people. And then I have not the perfect content
• 1:17:46
  but I have a great working thesis as to what works because I know that there's a version of this
• 1:17:50
  that already works. And I do I'm a firm believer that if and somebody can figure it out, I can
• 1:17:54
  figure it out. It's not like it's rocket science. Nobody's that special. So why not? Why not reverse
• 1:17:59
  engineer something else? But yes, I do talk to people. I talk to friends. I talk to family,
• 1:18:03
  especially when I was first starting out. I talk to people that I trust. You can also go to if you
• 1:18:10
  don't have any friends, God forbid, that's not great, but it's another makes and forms makes and
• 1:18:15
  friends. But no, there's also there's also communities. I mean, like the barrier to to access is
• 1:18:21
  also lower than ever, not just the barrier to building an entrepreneurship and technology. I mean,
• 1:18:26
  if I wanted to start an entrepreneurship show, go to go to like why coordinator or
• 1:18:33
  a hacker news or something like just go somewhere where you can find people that would consume
• 1:18:38
  your content and just ask if you at Facebook groups, I mentioned Facebook, there's definitely
• 1:18:42
  Facebook groups that you go into right now. And when you ask for help, it's wild, but people
• 1:18:48
  actually want to help you. Like more often than not, early stage creators, people are so ridiculously
• 1:18:54
  supportive. You just have to have the balls to put yourself out there and people are going to respond
• 1:18:59
  and they're going to give you real data. If you're looking for real answers and you put yourself
• 1:19:04
  out there, people will give you real answers and they'll give you real data that should inform how
• 1:19:08
  you create content. If you have no other people to speak within your immediate circle, but that's how
• 1:19:16
  it's done. On the note of starting, do you just from my story, started things and it'll prompt
• 1:19:25
  potentially your thinking, but before I started the podcast, like launch the podcast into the world,
• 1:19:35
  we agreed that we were going to do a podcast and then we filmed the first 12 episodes before
• 1:19:40
  that, just because I read somewhere that most like 90% of podcasts don't make it to 10 episodes.
• 1:19:45
  I'm like, all right, we're going to meet that by doing, before we even start, I'm going to do
• 1:19:52
  the film 12. What are your thoughts around how to go before launching? Do you just start with one
• 1:19:57
  and see what happens or do you build out a content library and then launch? What do you think is a better
• 1:20:02
  way to do this consistently long term? I think for most people building, batching content is a very
• 1:20:11
  smart idea because I think for most batch creating content or batch creating content before you start
• 1:20:17
  or even batching content after you start, meaning you set like a day up and you do four interviews,
• 1:20:22
  I think batching content in general is a smart idea because I think that most people, not all people,
• 1:20:27
  but most people are very bad with their schedule and life gets in the way. When life gets in the way,
• 1:20:33
  you prioritize the things that are urgent and important and you don't prioritize the new thing,
• 1:20:37
  the thing that really doesn't benefit you at all. Again, this sort of brings it back to setting
• 1:20:43
  yourself up for success. If you're going to set yourself up for success, what's the action you have
• 1:20:48
  to take to reduce the chance of you failing? I think 12 episodes is smart because you know what it
• 1:20:53
  does? That's my mentor. Third week is momentum and that third weekend when you start posting and
• 1:20:59
  oh my god, I got to pick the kids up and oh my god, I have to work overtime or whatever or just
• 1:21:05
  life happens or I got a cold, you know, you still have, you have a podcast supposed. So you don't
• 1:21:11
  like, you're not going to kill the momentum right away. Now, do you need to? No, of course not. I mean,
• 1:21:15
  you could just record a podcast once a week and post it and you just hope that life doesn't screw
• 1:21:19
  you over, you just have a discipline to set time aside. But if it's a new habit, I'm sure that
• 1:21:24
  James Clear would have a little bit to say about this, but if it's a new habit, like you have to
• 1:21:28
  find a way to set yourself up so that the new activity actually turns into a habit and I think that
• 1:21:35
  taking the activities that reduce the chance of you failing, that's that's how you win. I mean, if
• 1:21:41
  you know, if you want to go to the gym in January, well, first, if you want to work out, you should
• 1:21:45
  probably get like a gym membership first and then you should probably set some time aside and let
• 1:21:49
  people know that on Sunday afternoon, I'm going to go to the gym and then it would probably help also
• 1:21:53
  if you pick the gym close to your house. You just have to set yourself up for success. So yeah,
• 1:21:58
  batch episodes because it just reduces the chance of you failing and just giving up. I think it's
• 1:22:02
  just all these little things are just smart. When you want to go on a diet, why do you eat like vegetables
• 1:22:08
  and rice and proteins or whatever because it's really hard to lose weight when you're eating a ton
• 1:22:13
  of fiber and protein. But you're just setting yourself up for success. If you want to go on a diet,
• 1:22:18
  you take all that shit, you take all the junk food out of your house because it's really hard to
• 1:22:21
  overeat if you don't have any junk food in your house. It's the same thing. It's just all like
• 1:22:25
  setting your environment up to this is a really low chance that you're going to fail.
• 1:22:29
  Yeah, yeah, okay. And quickly jumping into some more specific stuff, the editing process,
• 1:22:38
  editing the video. What's the process for you guys on editing the video?
• 1:22:42
  So, no idea. Yeah, so we don't really, I mean, so we record in Zoom, I take the raw files,
• 1:22:52
  keep in mind, so I'll download the Zoom recording. And by the way, if there's something
• 1:22:58
  that I didn't go into in depth enough, feel free to like go there again. I'm just, again,
• 1:23:02
  I'm in it. So I never know. You probably experienced this too. I never know if I'm being too high level
• 1:23:10
  or going too much into the weeds, because I just live it every single day. So for me, this is very
• 1:23:15
  normal. Yeah, but for Zoom, download the recording, transfer the file, which is now like a massive
• 1:23:25
  file from my camera. So it's going to be like a 100 gig file, which is 4k file. This is an
• 1:23:30
  interesting point. What's your data management tools like to upload to get to your editors,
• 1:23:38
  not locally, because this is where I'm getting in a lot of trouble. Like Google Drive was really
• 1:23:42
  difficult. It like uploads poorly. It's a whole thing. So what I do is I take the memory card out,
• 1:23:51
  I transfer the file, because I don't upload during the day. I could use a second computer. That
• 1:23:57
  would probably be the best way to do it. I don't bother with that. I take the file, I move it onto
• 1:24:02
  a four terabyte SSD drive, and I'll put that in a folder with my, so I actually record my audio
• 1:24:10
  through Premiere Pro. I record my podcast through Zoom. That's where I capture the guests video,
• 1:24:16
  and I record my video through my camera. Take all those three files, put them into a folder,
• 1:24:22
  put them on a four terabyte SSD, and I have a ton of these. I've got a couple of unlimited
• 1:24:32
  amount of these everywhere. I take that, and then I plug it into my computer when I go to bed,
• 1:24:40
  and then I just upload all the podcasts that I've recorded, and I've used to one per grand,
• 1:24:46
  so the more expensive one that I use is P Cloud. It's just another, they're all the same,
• 1:24:54
  really. It's just a matter of how much they are. So P Cloud is the more expensive one.
• 1:24:59
  I've never had issues with Google Drive. We just find it incredibly expensive, especially for
• 1:25:03
  people starting out. And then there's another one called SYNC, and I have, I paid some ridiculous
• 1:25:10
  price for lifetime unlimited storage on that. So upload there, and that's where the editors pull
• 1:25:19
  the clips from. P Cloud is very good as well. The only reason why I use SYNC now is because my
• 1:25:27
  files are huge. So it's really getting hard to find a cloud service that isn't going to cost me
• 1:25:31
  thousands of dollars per month to store all those files. And keep in mind, I don't delete files,
• 1:25:37
  not because I'm a hoarder, because I actually do like to have like, so all the episodes I've
• 1:25:42
  ever done, they're stored locally on these here, and then they're also stored in the cloud.
• 1:25:50
  How do you like track and manage where the episodes are in the by year? Yeah, just by year,
• 1:25:59
  and by guess name. Okay, I mean, it's only when you just write it down, you go,
• 1:26:04
  that's going away, you get a new one, you put a sticker on it. Exactly. Yeah, it's not that
• 1:26:09
  complicated. Yeah, because these are challenges, like these are challenges people will face it,
• 1:26:14
  like when they begin to scale and they get a little content. For sure. And I do like holding
• 1:26:18
  on to the old content. In case I want to pull, like in case I want to pull clips from old content,
• 1:26:23
  I mean, it never happened, but for me, one SSD drive is going to last me like a year,
• 1:26:30
  or a year and a half, right? So like whatever, I think I think a four terabyte is 220 something
• 1:26:36
  like dollars like that, 200 bucks a year for sort, like this is like, it's full time now. I'm doing
• 1:26:41
  this full time. And keep in mind, most people starting yet are not going to have 100 gig files.
• 1:26:45
  No, right? Like if you are doing zoom, and you're recording, and you're not recording locally to
• 1:26:52
  a memory card, you are going to have like 700 meg, maybe 800 meg files max, like they're going to
• 1:27:01
  be like so, so, so small. Do you need an older port for the podcast? I do not actually.
• 1:27:09
  Okay, I know. Is there a reason for that? For like the edits? Because I don't want my editor to
• 1:27:16
  get lazy and miss a part. Okay. That's really it. Yeah. So just for my listening,
• 1:27:22
  auto-pod is like an add-on to Premiere Pro that basically uses AI to do the like clipping between
• 1:27:28
  yeah, between the audio video of the different people in the podcast, and it just does it in like
• 1:27:33
  five seconds. And it's funny you say that because Joe, my editor, has said, I'm not using auto-pod
• 1:27:40
  for that exact reason. He's like, I build out my trailer off the back of watching it normally.
• 1:27:45
  That's true too. That's a very good point. He's not going to know what to put in the trailer if
• 1:27:50
  you use this auto-pod. But what I'm more concerned about is he uses auto-pod and human nature,
• 1:27:57
  humans are humans. And if you use auto-pod, you're going to be like, why am I rechecking this?
• 1:28:03
  It already did it. Even though you know that there's a chance it has screwed something up. But when
• 1:28:08
  you go, when you watch the whole thing, you're going to know, and first of all, if you watch the whole
• 1:28:12
  thing, you're going to know if there's any parts you should clip out. We don't really clip much out.
• 1:28:16
  But just in case, I mean, like there's times when like a doorbell rings and the guest has to go
• 1:28:22
  up and get the door, I mean like life happens. So you just want to make sure that there's no weird
• 1:28:27
  edits. Auto-pod's good, but it's not. It's good if you have an editor that is going to go against
• 1:28:36
  their human nature and still triple check the shit out of it. But I find that I don't know. I like
• 1:28:43
  the, I like somebody reviewing it. It also helps me create the really good intro, which the editor
• 1:28:48
  does. And if I ever want to pull out clips from it, then the editor, I'll be like, Hey, can you
• 1:28:51
  give me like two or three reels from the show? The editor is going to know where to go. If not,
• 1:28:57
  you're not going to know where to go. So it's just, yeah, AI is good. But there's some things that I
• 1:29:03
  trust it with and some things that I don't. And it's probably better for solo people as well.
• 1:29:08
  Like solo creators that need to do everything themselves, lean on as much AI tools and as much,
• 1:29:13
  like you lean on chat GPT, lean on auto-pod, lean on all the things you can to minimize your lift
• 1:29:18
  because you've got so much work to do. But as you build a team, like the little human touches really
• 1:29:23
  make those want to make a huge difference. It makes a huge difference. And it actually,
• 1:29:30
  it differentiates. I mean, even if you're going to use AI for copywriting, the way that I look at
• 1:29:37
  AI is just the first pass at a creative problem, but it's not the end result. So if you're going to
• 1:29:44
  use it for copywriting, I mean, there's very few times I've ever used it for like an Instagram
• 1:29:48
  caption and I haven't, I'll get an idea out of it, but I'm still going to change it because it's
• 1:29:52
  still isn't as good as, or it's maybe it is good. I don't know. Maybe I just think I know how to
• 1:29:58
  write, but in my opinion, when I look at it, I'm like, I wouldn't have written it that way.
• 1:30:03
  And to me, that's enough to change it. So, yes. So that's really the sort of like the workflow.
• 1:30:11
  So record your show. I just mentioned where I record everything. If you are going to use a camera
• 1:30:17
  to record, obviously you're going to need a memory card. And if you want to record in 4K,
• 1:30:23
  this is a little bit more advanced, but you need a high speed memory card.
• 1:30:27
  Oh, you need a, well, actually, yes, you would need a capture card too. That's a good point.
• 1:30:30
  So what do I have? I have a, oh, what's the name of it? I've got a cam link for K.
• 1:30:35
  Cam link works. What's the name of mine?
• 1:30:40
  So, well, he's looking at that for those listening. What is it called?
• 1:30:45
  It's called Aver Media. It's an Aver Media capture card.
• 1:30:49
  So for those listening, the capture card basically takes the HDMI output from the camera,
• 1:30:56
  whatever camera you're using, if you're not using an iPhone. And it takes it and converts it into
• 1:31:02
  a USB or a USB-C type that then connects to the laptop, which allows you to use your camera
• 1:31:11
  at 4K. And you have to be careful because there are 1080p ones and 4K ones. So if you have a 4K
• 1:31:16
  camera and only a 1080p capture card, it'll throttle your, your output of your camera. Like,
• 1:31:24
  imagine going from a highway into a small street. It's not going to be as good. So, you know,
• 1:31:28
  ideally, if you're careful that you buy a, I was going to say, I was going to be careful if you buy
• 1:31:32
  a camera and you try and use 4K, you have to make sure that it doesn't time out after 30 minutes
• 1:31:36
  or over. Oh, God. Yeah. So that's a whole other thing. So the camera, yeah, look for camera,
• 1:31:42
  because there's a lot of cameras that just stop after 30 minutes. And there's also a lot of cameras
• 1:31:46
  that with continuous recording overheat. So go on Reddit, go on some threads and look for cameras
• 1:31:52
  that don't overheat and cameras that work at 4K for hours because that's what you're going to
• 1:31:58
  need. Like, I've returned multiple cameras because of this exact issue. Just built a studio,
• 1:32:05
  bought FX30s, a bunch of cameras and they're all overheating and I couldn't use them for the studio.
• 1:32:11
  FX30s. FX30s don't overheat. Oh, maybe it was another one. The one without, I don't know,
• 1:32:18
  anyway, maybe it wasn't the FX30s. FX30s are actually, FX30s, in my opinion, are like
• 1:32:22
  perfect for this. Are they the ones with the fan? Yeah, they have a built-in fan. So it wasn't
• 1:32:29
  we got to the FX30s at the end because of the fan, but there was another one where we built,
• 1:32:33
  I bought three like $8,000 worth of cameras. Oh, my God. It's more, and they were just
• 1:32:38
  shutting off, like cutting off. So these are the things to consider, but this is as you,
• 1:32:42
  as you scale and you want to do a studio and all these other things. Speaking of the studio,
• 1:32:47
  though, just I'm conscious of time. Let's quickly talk about touch on blind.
• 1:32:52
  Okay, so I have, so I have sort of two sets in this studio. So I have the virtual set that you
• 1:32:58
  see me on right now. So I have a key light here and I have a little bit of a, you know, what I
• 1:33:04
  know, it's not going to talk. It's like the little thing that hangs in front of it. The fuser,
• 1:33:09
  right? The light, the fuser. Then I have, oh, I'm going to blank on the names of the actual lights.
• 1:33:13
  And I have one more light. Let me see if I try to on and off. Let me see. I have one more light
• 1:33:18
  here. I'm breaking the fourth wall. I have one of these lights. And then I have one last light
• 1:33:24
  here that just sort of gives me, it lights up the side of your head. So it creates dimensions.
• 1:33:29
  That's the whole goal. It's great depth and dimensions and the lighting.
• 1:33:33
  I know what I know where the lights should go. There's technical terms for all these lights.
• 1:33:37
  I can't remember what they're called. So it doesn't have the point. I was like, hey, you go on YouTube.
• 1:33:41
  There's a lot of people that give you an instruction on how to use these in terms of the actual
• 1:33:48
  brand. Let's see what we got here. This is newer, I think. Yeah, newer solid. Yeah, that's good.
• 1:33:55
  And also we've got a, we've got teleprompters here. So we're both using teleprompters
• 1:33:59
  to connect with the cameras. Yeah. So what I'm looking at now used to be I'd look at the,
• 1:34:07
  I'd look off and it would feel kind of off. But then Scott gave me, you gave me a kick up the
• 1:34:14
  teleprompter. And I brought a teleprompter out throughout. I have to say because I'm like,
• 1:34:17
  why do you look so much better? What's going on here? Tell me. And you said, this is on this.
• 1:34:21
  And you said, I mean, if you really think, if you're really taking this seriously,
• 1:34:24
  you should buy them. And I thought, fuck all right. I'm glad. I'm glad. I'm glad you did.
• 1:34:30
  Yeah. So now the camera sits behind like a screen that inverts the, the video from the laptop
• 1:34:39
  or the computer. And I can look straight at the camera. So it looks like I'm looking straight at you.
• 1:34:44
  But I'm still looking at like a version of the screen. So it's perfect. It's perfect. So now I,
• 1:34:48
  it works all right. It's amazing. And now the, now the, the ad reads a hundred times better.
• 1:34:56
  Now the intros are a hundred times better because I'm reading off a teleprompter. And I can actually
• 1:35:02
  like think about how I communicate as opposed to be like, fuck what was that line?
• 1:35:09
  Or just going off like the dome and just like rambling like a lunatic.
• 1:35:13
  No, I know. It's like such a game changer. At the end of the day, you have to realize like, yes,
• 1:35:17
  you can, you can upskill yourself. You can memorize an intro or memorize an ad read. But just,
• 1:35:22
  if you're going to take this seriously at some point, you've got to give yourself the tools
• 1:35:26
  to be successful. I mean, you don't have to make it harder than it already is. So don't really don't.
• 1:35:30
  Yeah. Yeah. So, and that's probably another point of how to get better on camera. It's reps.
• 1:35:35
  And it's using tools like a teleprompter. And I really amazing
• 1:35:40
  skill that I learned recently was, can don't talk to a wide audience. If you are on doing a
• 1:35:53
  podcast or doing any content, even just doing like a come with me as I do blah, blah, blah,
• 1:35:58
  today, you might feel like you're talking to lots of people, but you are at the core of it when
• 1:36:05
  you drill it down, you're talking to one person. So everything needs to be one-on-one. You need to
• 1:36:10
  be using eye and you and us and staring at the camera into the lens as though you're looking into
• 1:36:18
  the eyes of the person that's reading the con or listening to the content. And when you flip that,
• 1:36:23
  it changes how you communicate and it makes you a much better person in camera. Is there anything
• 1:36:29
  else you'd add to that? I would say, by the way, we can go a little bit longer. I mean,
• 1:36:36
  if you want to just, I've got like three or four things. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. Don't stress.
• 1:36:40
  But I would say you sort of fall to the level of your preparation. So the more that I prepare
• 1:36:47
  obviously, the better the content is. It's pretty, it's the same as if you're going to go on stage
• 1:36:52
  and speak or go into a meeting or pitch and investor. I mean, you prepare. You do better. It's
• 1:36:57
  very simple. Yeah. You can use AI to help you with your preparation. You can do the research
• 1:37:03
  yourself. I recommend listening to a couple podcasts that the potential guests have been on.
• 1:37:09
  If you do an interview show or just if you aren't doing an interview show, you're doing a solo show
• 1:37:13
  and it's more educational. I like to spend some time doing research. Like the preparation
• 1:37:17
  really does show. Yeah. You talk to Lenny, what's his last name? Rick Kiewski. Lenny, Rick Kiewski,
• 1:37:25
  from Lenny's newsletter. It's a big business newsletter. If I'm mispronouncing your last name,
• 1:37:29
  Lenny, I'm sorry. But both him as well as the acquired podcast, one thing they've both said that's
• 1:37:37
  really struck a chord with me is again, Lenny's newsletter is massive acquired is also a massive
• 1:37:44
  podcast. But I've listened to them both just to study other. Lenny's, it's called Lenny's newsletter.
• 1:37:51
  It's actually called Lenny's newsletter. It's like one of the largest sub-stack publications.
• 1:37:56
  Might have to get him on the podcast. He's super cool. But both him and the acquired guys,
• 1:38:01
  they've done interviews and they've said the episodes that we prep for and the newsletters that
• 1:38:08
  I do the most research on just outperform everything. It's not even a question. So the acquired
• 1:38:14
  guys are in extreme. They spend about three weeks doing research before they record an episode.
• 1:38:21
  Lenny, I'm sure, has his own writing process. But did you find them?
• 1:38:26
  I wasn't sure if you were looking at like the icky guy maybe before.
• 1:38:29
  No, no, no. I've never done that before in a podcast. I like it. It was very cool.
• 1:38:34
  It was very cool. I'm just going to speed it up, get my like little side person here that can just
• 1:38:38
  like see what happened, a research for me. But it's all about prep. So I would say that's the
• 1:38:45
  most important piece out of everything else. Prep will make you more confident.
• 1:38:49
  Prep will make your guests feel more confident. They'll make you feel guests feel respected.
• 1:38:52
  It'll show in the content. It's all about prep. And the more unique questions you can ask,
• 1:39:00
  the more the guest is going to appreciate that you've done your research. And when the guest
• 1:39:06
  appreciates that you've done your research, they'll just be in a better mood. And when you create
• 1:39:11
  this vibe where you know you're respecting each other's time, that's when you get the best
• 1:39:16
  content. Everyone wants to see each other win. But if you know, if a guest is being asked a question
• 1:39:21
  that no one else has ever asked them about something super personal, not in a bad way. And like I
• 1:39:25
  cared about you enough to figure this out. And by the way, I can actually very much help this
• 1:39:28
  process outside of you listening to other shows they've done. It's just a positive experience.
• 1:39:34
  And it'll show up in the content. That's probably my best advice for anybody who's starting.
• 1:39:40
  I'm going to drop a bomb here. I'm going to give you guys what give you I mean you probably do it.
• 1:39:45
  But anyone that doesn't do it that doesn't really know AI too well. Every single podcast episode I do,
• 1:39:52
  I begin with AI. And it is it has cut down my research time so much. And I pretty much what I do
• 1:40:01
  is the script into AI is I'm doing a podcast with X, you know, who are they? What do you know about
• 1:40:09
  them? Provided details summary. And we start there. And then they give you a summary. And then I
• 1:40:13
  say, I want to build out some questions ahead of the episode. And we'll provide transcripts from
• 1:40:18
  other podcasts. He's done to get an understanding of him before before I get you to provide questions.
• 1:40:22
  Don't provide any questions until I've explicitly told you to and that I'm no longer going to
• 1:40:26
  provide any more relevant information. Are you ready? And that's his yes. And then I go, here's the
• 1:40:30
  podcast. Please summarize it and add it to the understanding of this thread with the intent to
• 1:40:35
  provide questions based on the initial parameters I said at the start. Please note the year that the
• 1:40:40
  piece of content was also released and consider whether any information you hear may actually not
• 1:40:44
  be relevant anymore if it's old. On top of that, please write out a list of every question you
• 1:40:49
  notice has been asked by the host to the guest in the transcript as well as a summarized answer so
• 1:40:54
  I can both get an understanding in detail of what they talk about and how to avoid those questions
• 1:40:58
  again. And then I say, please do not provide the actual podcast questions until our episode for
• 1:41:03
  our episode until I say so. And I put all the trend like I just go YouTube YouTube AI transcript,
• 1:41:09
  pull the YouTube transcript, chuck it in there, read the summary, next podcast, do that, next podcast,
• 1:41:14
  do that. And I get maybe like, I'll go through 20 podcasts and really get a really, really good
• 1:41:21
  understanding. And then at the end, I go, okay, please provide me 20 questions of the podcast with
• 1:41:26
  the following format intro about him, blah, blah, closing out. Here's the past questions I consider
• 1:41:31
  in every episode. Here's my standard question list. Further to that, please only come up with unique
• 1:41:36
  questions that haven't been seen in any previous podcast transcripts. And then it's just like
• 1:41:40
  it's good to spit sound shit. So I really think that I'm like, double down on this, give me 10 more
• 1:41:46
  of this one. Like and very quickly, this could this whole process from start to finish, I'm absorbing
• 1:41:51
  like 10 podcasts takes me like an hour. I'm smart. It's very, very smart. I don't remember my
• 1:41:57
  problems because I don't have in front of me. Yeah, I'm going to have an awesome. Yeah, that's awesome,
• 1:42:02
  dude. I also have a like a very similar process to just like understand what they've spoken about
• 1:42:07
  before. Yeah. So even the tools, yeah, the tools. Yeah. So a couple of things I want to talk. So
• 1:42:14
  while we're on this topic, how do you become a better interviewer?
• 1:42:21
  There's a book you can read. Let me find it. Let's can't remember it. I haven't read it in a while.
• 1:42:28
  I would say read this book because it'll teach you about different kinds of questions
• 1:42:33
  that I will find for you in a second. And outside of that, it's about the reps. Yeah, but
• 1:42:39
  but there is one book that I found. Let me see if I can find it. But ultimately, it's about
• 1:42:50
  reps because even if you know every every single kind of every single kind of question and you
• 1:42:57
  understand them like almost like the theory behind interviewing, there's really nothing like
• 1:43:03
  there's really nothing like just doing it because then that's good. And I would say that the
• 1:43:07
  prep is a big piece of it because when you prep, you have confidence. And I think confidence is
• 1:43:16
  actually like a major X factor in interviewing. Oh, it's called how to be a better interviewer.
• 1:43:23
  Oh, wait, no, that's the wrong one. It's by, it's by the guy who did Mixergy, which is Andrew
• 1:43:29
  Warner, one second. What's the name of the damn book? It's a yellow book. I just can't remember the exact
• 1:43:33
  title. Stop asking questions by Andrew Warner, how to lead high impact interviews and learn
• 1:43:42
  anything from anyone. I like it. It's a good one. I'm going to read that. I haven't heard of that.
• 1:43:48
  There is a there is a slight pushback that I'll that I'll have on this because I've got the
• 1:43:52
  same route like I have, you know, I try to prepare and I give the guests the questions beforehand
• 1:44:01
  to give them some freedom to like consider where I'm out in the direction. But I think there is also
• 1:44:06
  genuinely no right answer to this because something comes to mind is like I listen to a podcast
• 1:44:13
  a talk to that just did interviews of, you know, the top 20 interviewers ever of history. And
• 1:44:20
  their approaches are all wildly different. True. One of them specifically being Larry King
• 1:44:26
  did not do any prep. His team did not do any prep for any any interview ever. And all he did
• 1:44:33
  was sit there and go, wait, what? Your childhood. And then the conversation is just
• 1:44:41
  went in a direction that you would never expect because he had no bias of where he was taking it.
• 1:44:48
  And he was just there just chatting. So another another interesting thing to do after you're
• 1:44:53
  going to do that. Nothing wrong. I'm sure that first of all, not everyone is as gifted as Larry
• 1:44:59
  King at steering at pulling out conversation. And maybe he didn't do prep. But you self to understand
• 1:45:05
  what's the objective of the actual content. So no one's going to Larry King to learn how to raise
• 1:45:12
  money. Yeah. But if you want to build a podcast, it teaches something like that. That's the
• 1:45:17
  difference. So you do have to know what kind of content you want to create that does change.
• 1:45:23
  I guess like King was like an a list interviewer. And then he people a list interviewers want to know
• 1:45:28
  they just want to know like people listening to that want to just know things that they didn't know
• 1:45:32
  about this I list interviewer that you can't get in any other format than just like chatting with
• 1:45:37
  them for an extended period of time. True. I also think that I also think that there gets, I mean,
• 1:45:42
  with Joe Rogan, I'm sure when guests go on Joe Rogan now, the guests are trying to bring their
• 1:45:48
  A game because they know the reach. I would not say that's good advice for somebody with no reach.
• 1:45:54
  I would say prep a little bit. Yeah. I don't think yes, they're always going to bring their A game
• 1:45:59
  if they don't know who you are and you're just starting out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the process
• 1:46:04
  changes is podcast scales. If you want to be casual and you want to be entertaining and you want to
• 1:46:09
  just like shoot the shit and do like I'm trying to think of like Joe Rogan is that kind of casual
• 1:46:16
  like flagrants kind of like a casual podcast. But he does a little bit. Andrew Schultz is a little
• 1:46:21
  bit of research. There's some pretty like casual chill like just like shooting the shit podcast.
• 1:46:26
  Maybe you don't research as much because you actually want to have like
• 1:46:30
  like caller daddy. It's like that's a kind of podcast, right? Like they just kind of riff
• 1:46:36
  and they their personalities show through. So it really depends on what you want to make, I think.
• 1:46:40
  But yeah. Yeah. Another idea and going back to the Chris Foss thing, never split the difference
• 1:46:49
  is actually a really good book to learn about how to interview well because there's a couple of
• 1:46:54
  very specific techniques that I've used. And it reminded me doing the prep because I reread his
• 1:47:01
  book prior to doing the podcast with him. And it's just little things like if something is
• 1:47:08
  peaking your interest using upwards inflection mirroring. So you know, you say something like
• 1:47:15
  I made a hundred grand last year and you want to double down on that without being like tell me
• 1:47:20
  more about how you made a hundred grand. It kind of breaks the flow. But I would just sit here
• 1:47:25
  and go a hundred grand last year with like an upwards inflection. And then shut the fuck up.
• 1:47:33
  And that naturally will like lead, you know, draw people into saying more. And you can, I do
• 1:47:39
  this on a weekly basis. I can sit here and then up with one back and see when you are presented.
• 1:47:44
  I do it all the time, bro. I do it all the time. And I can sit here and I can have a person talk
• 1:47:51
  for two hours straight. And all I do is upwards and flat. I don't need to tell anyone else.
• 1:47:55
  Because they filled the space. I've seen some of his stuff before. He's very good.
• 1:47:59
  Yeah. And the second one is also silence. So being okay with sitting in that slightly
• 1:48:07
  silent space and giving people the space to think. So I think it's an energetic thing. But
• 1:48:16
  what I've learned, and I think I'm getting okay as an interviewer, like genuinely I'm getting
• 1:48:21
  feedback from podcasts, people who go on podcasts that have been on some of the biggest podcasts.
• 1:48:25
  And they say to my face, this was one of the better interviews I've done. And it's not the first,
• 1:48:30
  I've heard that probably half a thousand times now. So I think it's moving in a positive direction.
• 1:48:35
  And I'd be a big part of that is also I think due to slowing it down and being comfortable in
• 1:48:44
  sitting in silence. Like if somebody, if I ask a question and someone sits there for 20 seconds,
• 1:48:49
  I can give a shit. Just take your time. That's tough. That's very tough. I've also found that I found
• 1:48:56
  that like if I'm tired or if I don't, like I have to manage my energy levels too. So when I'm tired,
• 1:49:03
  I'm less good with those circumstances. And when I'm not tired, I have energy, not stressed out
• 1:49:13
  about other things. Because I think that all those external factors, and it's, listen, this is
• 1:49:18
  not easy to do. But I think they're finding ways to sort of be in the present and be in the now.
• 1:49:23
  And also maximize your energy as a professional. And it's an entrepreneur. These are all very
• 1:49:28
  important ideas that all play into this because it's like the podcast is like game time. It's
• 1:49:35
  like high pressure. It's like high pressure in like the least high pressure situation. It's not
• 1:49:40
  that bad. But it's like it's performative. You got to show up. You got to be your best. You got
• 1:49:45
  to feel comfortable as an interviewer. You got to create an environment where the guest is
• 1:49:49
  comfortable. You got to be comfortable with like you mentioned silences and not rambling and
• 1:49:55
  all the stuff that comes with interviewing. It's not easy. So it's just, but I think reps will
• 1:50:03
  either make you better or highlight your areas for improvement. Yeah. I don't think there's another
• 1:50:08
  way to do it. So if I show reps a K. And if I feel like I'm rambling or I feel like I asked an
• 1:50:16
  awkward question and then they didn't answer right away. So I felt bad and then I jumped in and
• 1:50:20
  well, why did I do that? Maybe it's because I was tired. Maybe it's because maybe it's because I
• 1:50:26
  didn't prep. Maybe it didn't feel comfortable to get whatever it is. There's like something. There's
• 1:50:29
  a tell there that you have to pay attention to. And I think you pay attention to those. That's when
• 1:50:34
  you improve. And the interviewing skill itself, again, I'm just going to purely go off my personal
• 1:50:40
  experience is improving every facet of my life. Everything is getting better because of my ability
• 1:50:47
  to have a conversation. I agree. It's really cool. And I think it's a skill that in copywriting
• 1:50:55
  are probably two skills that will probably never go away. They're going to be useful skills forever.
• 1:50:59
  I agree with that. Yeah. That's good. There was some good nuggets across the board. So a couple
• 1:51:05
  of last things I've got is how to monetize. Let's talk about how to monetize when you should monetize
• 1:51:12
  and how you should go about doing all those elements and whether you should let look, I'll just let
• 1:51:18
  you go. The way that I monetize is one way. Obviously, I don't think it's the best way. The way
• 1:51:27
  that I monetize was when I get so many downloads that I'm looking for. So I went through agencies.
• 1:51:36
  So agencies will usually start to accept you if you're at about 5,000 downloads per month,
• 1:51:40
  which is like a $200 ad slot or something. I can't do the math in my head based on CPMs,
• 1:51:46
  but it's not a lot of money. But yeah, I mean, that's what would you do in episode?
• 1:51:51
  So if you do a 5,000, sorry, you go ahead. I was going to say two pre-roll, four mid-roll for like
• 1:52:00
  an hour to an hour and a half and then two post-roll. So you get the 5,000 downloads a month. Let's
• 1:52:06
  see, doing a week of podcasts. It's approximately 1,000 downloads an episode or maybe 500 downloads
• 1:52:11
  an episode plus evergreen. You can revenue-wise, if you're saying $200 an ad roll to $6.8, did you say it?
• 1:52:21
  So that's times $600 a week in revenue. And that is at like higher numbers. That's just probably
• 1:52:28
  pretty average. And how likely would you get eight advertisers? Like is it? No, you wouldn't have
• 1:52:34
  100% inventory sold out. So yeah, you're not likely at that point because maybe 60% sold out?
• 1:52:41
  Yeah. And your show is probably going to be bundled with other shows that they're selling. They're
• 1:52:44
  not selling your show. They're selling. I have 20 shows in the business niche that have this many
• 1:52:51
  downloads. That's what they're selling. And you're one of those. So you can go through agencies.
• 1:52:58
  You can go to Gumball, Advertised Cast, Red Circle, has an ad program, Glassbox.
• 1:53:05
  What are they tightening? 30% on average. Okay. Is it worth doing those in-house, do you think?
• 1:53:14
  Do you have the capacity to hire and train a sales team or jump on every single call with every
• 1:53:18
  single advertiser and do reporting? I felt like it wasn't worth it to me. I felt like I could do that,
• 1:53:23
  especially when I compare it to reporting. They're components are sales. The components are sales.
• 1:53:29
  The components are, okay, so how do I find decision maker email addresses? Because I did sales.
• 1:53:35
  I built sales teams. I know how there's not a single thing in sales that I haven't done myself
• 1:53:39
  or hired somebody to do. So you have to find the brands you want to work with. You have to find
• 1:53:45
  the emails of the decision makers. You have to run outbound campaigns. You have to run follow-up,
• 1:53:50
  not just one email, like nurture sequences. Make sure you're targeting properly with the right
• 1:53:54
  ideal customer profile and buyer persona. That's a conversation for another day.
• 1:54:00
  But then once you find those people you run emails, they're going to jump on calls.
• 1:54:03
  You're going to discover recall. You're going to demo call. You're going to eventually negotiate
• 1:54:06
  closed deal. You're going to get the creative brief. You're going to record the creative brief.
• 1:54:11
  You're going to send it back to them from approval. You're going to embed that either programmatically
• 1:54:15
  or baked in. Depending on which platform you use, some can do programmatic. Some can just do
• 1:54:21
  baked in. The difference is programmatic means you're just doing your setting markers and inserting
• 1:54:26
  across your entire catalog. Baked in means you're literally just when you're doing the edit.
• 1:54:30
  You're inserting like a 30 to 6 second ad like in the actual video and audio before you export it
• 1:54:37
  and then upload it to your channels. And just for context, baked in is going to be worth more
• 1:54:41
  because it's there forever, programmatically. You can change after 10 weeks to the next
• 1:54:46
  programmatic one. And after that, then you have to report on downloads or listen. So I would say
• 1:54:54
  for like, again, most creators are not full time when they start. I don't think they should be.
• 1:55:00
  So I think agency's help. The issue with not having agents, by the way, you still sell on your own
• 1:55:07
  because you don't need to, I would never sign exclusivity. Some people will try and get you to
• 1:55:11
  sign exclusivity. I don't do exclusive unless they can guarantee me revenue. They can't guarantee me
• 1:55:17
  revenue. I don't sign exclusivity agreements. And these are just ad agencies. We haven't even
• 1:55:20
  talked about networks yet. But that's the ad agency. That's my recommendation for how you monetize
• 1:55:26
  and if you want to sell deals on this. No, no, no, sorry. I'll talk about networks in a second.
• 1:55:31
  But if you want to monetize, go through ad agencies, go through podcasts ad agencies. And if you
• 1:55:36
  want to sell because you're not exclusive, you can still sell on the side. And then the other thing
• 1:55:42
  that you'll encounter when you're building a podcast is networks and networks are like the HubSpot
• 1:55:46
  podcast network. There's other ones as well. I'm part of HubSpot and networks do a couple things.
• 1:55:52
  Sometimes they'll find advertisers for you. Networks are usually more likely to ask you to be
• 1:55:56
  exclusive to them. They will definitely not want you in another network. But for example, with HubSpot,
• 1:56:02
  they don't care if I sell ads on my show. They just don't want me in another network obviously.
• 1:56:06
  And they'll do other things. So they'll support creators. They'll help them understand with
• 1:56:13
  emerging podcast trends. They'll do collaboration with other podcasts in the network. Sometimes HubSpot
• 1:56:20
  doesn't find ads. HubSpot is the advertiser and the network. A lot of other podcasts,
• 1:56:25
  networks like, for example, podcast one or young and profiting. Those are two other podcasts.
• 1:56:31
  There's a lot of podcasts networks. Other podcasts networks will find you advertiser. So they
• 1:56:39
  kind of act as a network in an agency at the same time. So the lines are kind of blurred. And when
• 1:56:44
  you get to this point, you'll start to learn. You'll start to look at what I've made a little bit
• 1:56:50
  of money through agencies. Do I want to join a network? Our network is approaching me. Is it a
• 1:56:54
  good deal? Is it a bad deal? Creators will be careful because a lot of networks are not
• 1:57:00
  for earlier creators is a really good chance that if you don't know what you're doing,
• 1:57:06
  you could be getting taken advantage of. And I'm just a caveat. HubSpot is the best network
• 1:57:11
  I've ever seen. And I have nothing but good things to say about them. But I'm talking about
• 1:57:15
  other networks that I have been approached by that are asking for unreasonable terms. And if I wasn't
• 1:57:23
  more confident in auditing contract language or whatnot, then I'd get myself into like a less
• 1:57:29
  than ideal situation that I would have a hard time getting out of, again, not HubSpot, other
• 1:57:35
  networks. Not sale networks are bad. Just make sure that this is like the classic thing,
• 1:57:40
  like even as if you were an influencer or a creator on Instagram, sometimes brands, agencies,
• 1:57:49
  take advantage of creators that don't know better because they're not business people.
• 1:57:53
  They're creators first and business people second. And I've seen in circumstances,
• 1:57:58
  bigger agencies and brands take advantage. So just be careful if you start to engage in
• 1:58:02
  contractual obligations with people that it's, you know, to your benefit and talk to people that
• 1:58:09
  have either done it before or just talked to people. If you are a creative first and you don't
• 1:58:15
  get business quote unquote, if you're not like a business minded person first, you don't have
• 1:58:22
  experienced reviewing a contract. Just speak to people before you sign anything. That's my advice.
• 1:58:27
  But yeah, so that's sort of the the ecosystem of who supports podcasting. And again,
• 1:58:34
  none of it, I don't want to make it sound bad or I don't want to scare people off. I just want
• 1:58:38
  people to get into situations that they aren't happy with. But there's a lot of agencies and a lot
• 1:58:43
  of networks that are phenomenal, like the one I'm part of. And you can use them strategically.
• 1:58:49
  And you don't have to go and sell your own ads, but also you can. It's just a time thing.
• 1:58:54
  If you add a limited money and resources, you could just go sell your own ads, right? If you could
• 1:58:58
  go hire a salesman, maybe you just sold a company for a hundred million dollars. You don't
• 1:59:01
  want to deal with agencies. You want to go to higher salesperson. Okay, that's cool. But I don't
• 1:59:04
  think that's the majority of people. I mean, people need a little bit help. Yeah, yeah. Okay,
• 1:59:09
  so basically if you're starting from scratch, step one is get to five thousand downloads a month.
• 1:59:13
  It's as quickly as you possibly can in step two is use once you're at that point, try and then find a
• 1:59:20
  go talk to agencies and just find an agency and get them to start bringing in revenue.
• 1:59:25
  And that's probably the quickest way to monetize. And you might be able to make at that point a
• 1:59:30
  thousand to two thousand dollars a week, maybe on on ad reads. I say a little bit less because
• 1:59:37
  your fill rate won't be a hundred percent. Yeah, you'd probably be a little bit less than that.
• 1:59:41
  But still, you'll make some money. You'll make some money. It'll cover the cost at least. Exactly.
• 1:59:46
  And then you can make any extra money. And again, this is not going to be like your retiring money.
• 1:59:52
  But if you make any extra money, then you can start to roll it back into ads and you can advertise
• 1:59:56
  on like player FM and cast box. And you can even advertise another podcast. And I've basically
• 2:00:02
  tried everything. Well, let's talk about that as well. Yeah, so
• 2:00:06
  right now I'm about to start like a Facebook Instagram YouTube ad budget just to try it out.
• 2:00:16
  Advertising on the podcast, advertising the podcast, how to do that, where to do it, what you found
• 2:00:22
  had the best impact. So I've tried everything and I've tried Facebook and I've tried Instagram.
• 2:00:27
  And I found that it's just very expensive because you could target the right
• 2:00:31
  avatar of the listener, but it doesn't mean they're a podcast listener. So I could line up
• 2:00:38
  everything perfect, US-based, English speaking, 27 to 37, works in tech, like all the demos that fit
• 2:00:46
  my audience profile. But maybe they just don't like podcasts. Maybe they read newsletters. So then
• 2:00:50
  wasted money. So I have a pretty strong view on this. If I'm trying to advertise and market,
• 2:00:58
  especially when I'm just starting out when there's I'm not needing to look for additional
• 2:01:04
  audience, like I can spend the money that I'm spending. It's not like I'm trying to find 10 million
• 2:01:11
  people. I'm trying to find like a thousand people. Yeah. I only market on the medium
• 2:01:19
  of that particular thing. So I'm trying to grow a newsletter. I'm only spending ad money on
• 2:01:23
  other newsletters. I'm trying to grow a podcast. I'm only spending ad money on other podcasts
• 2:01:28
  or podcast hosting platforms because again, I don't want to convince you to listen to podcasts or
• 2:01:34
  to read a newsletter. I just want you to listen. I want you to already like podcasts and like I
• 2:01:40
  put my hand up and say, hey, check my nose. Are you doing that ad raid? So what does that actually
• 2:01:46
  look like? Okay. So it depends. But so it depends. So if you are going to advertise on cast
• 2:01:54
  box or player FM, which are podcast hosting platforms, great places to advertise, this banner ads.
• 2:02:01
  So banner with your show shows up at the top of their app. And then they suggest that they obviously
• 2:02:07
  have a whole bunch of podcasts listeners. They suggest that people go listen to your show. If you
• 2:02:11
  are going to advertise another podcast, I have done both. I have done my own ad reads. I have
• 2:02:19
  asked the host to do the ad read both work. I would say I would prefer the host to endorse me
• 2:02:28
  than me endorse me because again, you have to think about who the audience trusts. Another kind of
• 2:02:33
  ad that I like to do with podcasts is feed swaps or like feed drops where I take a whole episode
• 2:02:40
  or even a part of an episode. But it's usually a whole episode because I know that there's alignment
• 2:02:44
  with their audience. And if I do a swap, I'll take one of my episodes. I'll take one of the other
• 2:02:50
  podcasts episodes. And I'll put I'll record a little bit of an intro. So like what this is. Hey,
• 2:02:55
  this is, you know, this is X podcast with this host. I speak about this. If you like this episode,
• 2:03:00
  go subscribe here. This is a sample episode. Hope you enjoy it. Literally, that's it. Append it to
• 2:03:05
  the front of their episode. Put it in mind. They do the same for and then you basically just give
• 2:03:10
  your whole audience a sample of the other person's podcast. And then if they like it, they can go
• 2:03:17
  download and subscribe. So I like doing that as well. I think that's a great way because they get a
• 2:03:21
  then you really get and you can use chartable to track conversions on that as well. And there's
• 2:03:26
  a couple other analytics tools that you can use to track conversions you don't have to. But I mean,
• 2:03:30
  it's helpful if you, if you have a, if, for example, if I have a million downloads a month and
• 2:03:37
  you have like 10,000, technically, I could still do a swap with you because I could even take it
• 2:03:43
  out after I hit 10,000 downloads, right? And it could still be valuable, right? So that's a,
• 2:03:49
  that's a, that's a, in my opinion, I like that way of advertising because when you do swaps,
• 2:03:54
  it could actually be like a free, it could be free exposure to another person's audience if you
• 2:03:58
  don't, you're not even paying for. Yeah, that's a good idea. I didn't, I'd never thought of the
• 2:04:02
  podcast swaps. Yeah. Trying to think that's pretty much that those are kind of like the main ways.
• 2:04:08
  And then you have all the traditional marketing, like you said, you're running paid ads on Facebook
• 2:04:11
  and Google. And it'll work. Organic matters. Or getting pros, but they have almost no outcomes
• 2:04:17
  when it comes to no, you know, going viral on like it doesn't really need to think about. Okay,
• 2:04:23
  so what? And you also want to just not, you just don't want to drive people who download an
• 2:04:27
  episode once because a lot of services who just focus on getting people to listen to one episode,
• 2:04:31
  and then they're like selling downloads and they'll basically optimize so that somebody who's a,
• 2:04:38
  like if it's like a hosting platform, somebody who uses this hosting platform, this app,
• 2:04:43
  they'll go in and they'll listen to your episode one episode. But then there's no real pathway
• 2:04:48
  for them to become a subscriber. So great. Now you boosted your downloads on this one particular
• 2:04:52
  episode. But if churn and of those people is like 99%, it's really not. Doesn't help you. Long
• 2:04:59
  doesn't help you. It's useless. So you want, you want people to subscribe. You want to bring people in.
• 2:05:05
  And if you can find a way to do that for cheap and optimize it and you can pay a couple bucks per
• 2:05:10
  subscriber, that's not bad. And you just want to keep driving that cost down. And you do that by
• 2:05:15
  testing different, again, this is business, not just podcast, test different creative, test different
• 2:05:20
  messaging, test different targeting, test different platforms, test, test, test, test, test,
• 2:05:24
  and then triple down on what works. Okay. And my last thing for this deep dive, which has been
• 2:05:30
  amazing, by the way. So thank you. I think we're good. I've got one more thing. And if you
• 2:05:35
  would start, I thought of one thing that we left. Go on. Yeah. Go. But I wasn't sure what you were
• 2:05:40
  going to go. I was booking. It was booking guests. Oh, yeah. We spoke briefly when I did the
• 2:05:47
  code email thing. So I thought I kind of touched on that. If you've got something to add on that,
• 2:05:52
  yeah, go ahead. So when I started booking, so booking guests is just another sales process at the
• 2:05:58
  end of the, like, it's just a sales pitch. So when you're starting out, there's something in sales.
• 2:06:06
  Well, there's a couple of things in sales. But when you're selling something to somebody,
• 2:06:09
  first of all, you're always solving a pain point. That's number one. That's just a general sales
• 2:06:14
  concept. And second of all, how do you make sure the sale closes quicker? And there's something
• 2:06:21
  called intent and sales. You mentioned this before, there's intent. So there's intent for the buyer
• 2:06:27
  to do something. I'll give you a non podcast example. If I have a cyber security breach,
• 2:06:32
  there is intent to upgrade our security software because I just had a breach. If somebody hits
• 2:06:38
  me up and they're like, Hey, you want a social media scheduling tool? And I already have five
• 2:06:43
  people scheduling my social media. Maybe, but I wasn't looking for it. So that's the difference.
• 2:06:49
  So how does that plan to podcast guest thing? So podcast guests, finding them and getting them to
• 2:06:55
  come on your show is really just closing a sale. So when I started the podcast and as you get bigger,
• 2:07:00
  it's much easier because they come to you. But when you start, obviously no one comes to you and
• 2:07:04
  you have to sort of sell yourself. So to sales process. So first, I look for intent because I know
• 2:07:09
  if there's intent to come on to a podcast by the guest, then that's going to speed up the sales
• 2:07:15
  cycle and increase the chances of them saying, yes, how do you find intent? The easiest way I found
• 2:07:21
  is to go on Amazon and you look for people in your niche that are releasing books and you rank it
• 2:07:27
  by popularity and by time to release and upcoming books. And then you go reach out to those people
• 2:07:32
  because they're already doing a PR tour and there's already intent to create some buzz around this
• 2:07:37
  new book that's coming out. So for business podcasts, literally go to Amazon, go to Up and Coming,
• 2:07:43
  best selling authors and all these different filters and rankings and then find like the top 10 people
• 2:07:48
  and then you can use like rocket reach or any male finder or any of the other tools to find their
• 2:07:53
  email addresses or their publisher's email addresses because I mean the bigger ones are going to be
• 2:07:57
  Harper Collins or Simon and Schuster or Penguin Random House. There's only so many people you
• 2:08:01
  have to reach out to. And then first of all, now you've established intent, so you know there's
• 2:08:06
  a book coming out. And then after that, you're going to solve the pain point. What's the pain point?
• 2:08:10
  The pain point is exposure. So I would have some sort of subject line that would create intrigue,
• 2:08:16
  highest, historically the highest subject lines that I've ever used. You can put other, you can
• 2:08:24
  put other guests in, it's not even bad. It's just funny yet how people respond to just certain
• 2:08:30
  copy, but you can put other big guests in your subject line if you like because that does help
• 2:08:36
  it sort of create some credibility. The best subject line that I've ever used and this is not my
• 2:08:43
  idea and I can't remember whose idea it is, but I tried it once after I watched a YouTube video
• 2:08:46
  and it worked very well and I just kept going with it was first name, last name, line and then
• 2:08:52
  cell phone number. Dude, I did the exact same. It worked so well. It's so good. Yeah, my
• 2:09:00
  little is first name dot, dot, dot, we need to chat line my number. Yeah, it works very well.
• 2:09:07
  So that'll get you like a 35 plus percent open rate. And
• 2:09:12
  I'm dead. And I'm like, is he going to say it? He's going to say it. Yeah, whatever.
• 2:09:21
  It's just so, I guess it's just so intriguing for people like who will kind of crazy fuck put
• 2:09:24
  certain cell phone number in the email subject line and they open it and then then you have to tell
• 2:09:29
  them like, okay, who you are? What reach are you going to give them? You know, who are they in
• 2:09:32
  the company of? Who are the other guests? What are the parameters of the recording? Like
• 2:09:38
  zoom, super low effort. We do, you get the final say on the on the edit, sort of reduce the
• 2:09:44
  chance of them saying something stupid. We create all these clips. We license them to you kind of
• 2:09:48
  like we just mentioned before we license it all the clips. You can use them for your social.
• 2:09:53
  So again, intent plus plus good copy, high open rate plus solving a pain point, which is really
• 2:09:58
  then getting publicity around their book plus reducing the friction of making it an offer that
• 2:10:02
  can't say no to this will get you guests. Like you don't have to over this whole framework.
• 2:10:07
  He's got me. Yeah, so it'll work. It'll work. It'll work. Got me Grand Cardone, Guy Kawasaki,
• 2:10:13
  Anthony Scaramucci in like the first 15 episodes, which is stupid because I was not ready for those
• 2:10:19
  interviews. I was so surprised, but it works. And after you get some big names and you can put
• 2:10:28
  those in your emails, I hate these guys have been on the show too. Yeah. Yeah, so good. That's a
• 2:10:33
  banger. So the final part of this is if you were to be starting again right now, day zero, no
• 2:10:40
  following your men with a with a market dream. Where are you focusing? Where are you focusing your
• 2:10:48
  energy in 2024? YouTube. It's very it's a very easy answer for me. I would have I would have
• 2:10:54
  spent more money quicker to up the production of the actual podcast and focus on YouTube.
• 2:11:00
  I would have done more in person on YouTube. I would have just gone to the I would have just
• 2:11:06
  just jumped right into the most extreme version of podcasting, which is in person in person production.
• 2:11:13
  Yeah. And if she didn't have I would have rented out studios and I wouldn't have bothered with the
• 2:11:18
  virtual. No, no, sorry. Should I just hang up through this all this? I would really. No, don't throw it
• 2:11:25
  away, but I would jump into it much quicker because I would have people like I mean, half the
• 2:11:34
  reason why we moved and I respect her opinion because she didn't want people. We had a condo and
• 2:11:38
  so we did Toronto. And I started the podcast virtual in Toronto, moved down to Fort Lauderdale. We
• 2:11:44
  had a condo in Fort Lauderdale. Gina didn't want people coming in the condo because there's
• 2:11:48
  like a small space compared to the home of Toronto. So like, okay, so let's move down to Miami. And I was
• 2:11:53
  trying to I was trying to look at places to rent to Miami and studios and there really wasn't much
• 2:11:57
  down here compared to like New York or even LA's wild LA has so many creative spaces. Now there's
• 2:12:02
  some, but half the reason why we moved down here and built it the studio is because like I'm all
• 2:12:08
  in on this and I wish I had done this and made these moves sooner. And it would have actually in
• 2:12:12
  for like I mean, we moved because I wanted to build a studio. So like it's informing like life
• 2:12:18
  decisions at this point because I want to take it seriously. I am taking seriously, it's a silly
• 2:12:24
  thing to say. It has been taken seriously for a minute. But yeah, I want to sort of take it to
• 2:12:28
  the next level and I want to have full control over it now. Not saying everybody has to move, change
• 2:12:33
  your life, build a studio, but I would jump into I would find a way to create a higher version of
• 2:12:41
  content and a content that has more of a moat around it than what the next guy or the next girl
• 2:12:46
  is doing immediately. And I think that YouTube is the most in person and the moats on YouTube.
• 2:12:55
  So what causes the YouTube moat is that just followers? It's organic reach. It's organic
• 2:13:01
  reach for something that has no organic reach. Are you focusing, you know, so how do you get more
• 2:13:09
  organic reach on YouTube? Are you focusing on thumbnail descriptions? What's important?
• 2:13:14
  It's all important, but the most important is I think the most important is being there,
• 2:13:22
  obviously. Good production, but it doesn't have to be overproduced. But being there,
• 2:13:29
  see yeah, my opinion is if you if you show up on YouTube and you prep, that creates good content
• 2:13:36
  and it will be found and discovered and you'll grow. I'm not a YouTube like I mean, I also
• 2:13:42
  leverage shorts. I turn every I use AI to take long form podcasts, put them into opus.pro and
• 2:13:48
  turn them into a whole bunch of short form reels and YouTube shorts and TikToks and Snapchat
• 2:13:53
  Spotlights and all that. But I think it's like focus on video first. That's that would be what I'd
• 2:14:00
  recommend. Cool. Yeah, that's that's where that's where my head's at and that's sort of what I
• 2:14:07
  I believe that that's the differentiator. I think that audio only you'll have some you'll have
• 2:14:12
  some people that will hit, but I think it's very hard. I think it's making something that doesn't
• 2:14:17
  it's already hard even harder. So that's why you asked me what I do. That's what I do.
• 2:14:23
  All right, thanks Scott. Any any closing statements before you wrap up?
• 2:14:26
  No, this is awesome. This is awesome. To turn this into a course.
• 2:14:31
  A little bit of bullshitting in between, but besides that, we can turn it into a course.
• 2:14:34
  Well, so yours, right? This is this is all your knowledge. So I'll give you the pace of content
• 2:14:40
  and get from it. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Well, I just like I was like chatting about it. It's
• 2:14:46
  fun. I appreciate it. No, I have nothing else. If anybody has questions about podcasts. Yeah,
• 2:14:52
  we're going to send them in and we can do like a I was going to say we do part two, but I think we
• 2:14:55
  did a lot. We did a lot. They can find me. So the podcast is success stories. You go to successstorypodcast.com
• 2:15:02
  and then all the social is at Scott D. Clary. So it's super simple. Tom. All right. Thank you, Scott.
• 2:15:09
  Until next time. See you next time. Bye.