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EP 22: Directors vs Producers · The Podyssey: A Film Podcast

• henry: Hey guys, welcome back to the Podicy. I'm Henry Wilkinson. I'm Andrew Mosler. And this is episode twenty-one of the Podicy. and today we're gonna be talking about some some terms and crew members that we reference a lot when we are talking about movies. we understand that some some things that we say might go over some people's heads. So yeah, we're we're just gonna talk about some of the some of the things we like to talk about. and today we're gonna talk about directors, cinematographers, and producers and specifically what they do. and some of the some of the terms that we use when we talk about their techniques. kind of what goes into that. so that when we are talking about movies, hopefully you guys can have a better understanding of what we're what we're trying to talk about. Andrew, what have you been watching this week? It's episode twenty two. Yeah. By way. What did I say? You said twenty one. I did? Yeah. It's all right, bro. Doesn't even matter. Doesn't matter, dude. Let me get into what I've been watching. Yeah. Andrew, why don't you go ahead for episode twenty two? Yeah. I'm just gonna Just get into what I've been watching. So for episode twenty two. Yeah. It's episode twenty two. yeah, so just had a well, I guess it wasn't the last movie I watched, but I kind of wanted just like a diverse set of movies this week and f for our Century episode we're doing kind of like the best movies of of the century. So I've been trying to knock out some underrated movies from the Century that I looked up or whatever that Chat GBT gave me. And then asked my dad, which is a better source. And then just watch some best best picture stuff that I thought I should probably watch at some point. So I watched Collateral, which is Michael Mann and Tom Cruise, which I really liked. Jamie Foxx as well. Really, really good. You've seen that, right? Yeah. Yeah. What'd you give it? I give it a four. So you hated it? Probably should be a four and a half. I'm joking. I don't know why. I gave it a four and a half. So you did, okay. So that's like the right rating for Let me change it real quick. but no, yeah, I really liked it. Michael Mann is just And I in my review I said I gotta rewatch Heat because I think just when I watched Heat I don't know what I I d I didn't really like love it. It's one of my favorites. Yeah, I know. And I I feel like I I it would be one of mine too, 'cause I love action movies. And that's just like I don't know. So I think I really need to rewatch that. I might do that this week. What what year is Heat? Ninety five. Ninety five, okay. Yeah. So we'll see. And then I watched Fincher, the girl with the dragon tattoo, which I really, really liked. Gave it a four and a half. I love Daniel Craig. And he kinda plays like a similar role to like knives out in this almost. Kind of like detective y type of role. So I thought that was really good. He'd he is just like I don't know, he just plays that role so good. so yeah, I don't know what the If they're doing like more knives out, do you know anything? I don't know. The I saw something with the director. he was basically like he wants to do other stuff. Dang. So that sucks. But I hope I mean I'm just interested to see where Craig kinda goes. I don't I was kinda trying to look up like what he's doing next and I couldn't really find anything. He's in the new he's gonna be in Damien Chazelle's new movie. Which is like a prison break movie. that's right. That's Cillian Murphy's in it too. That's right. I just saw a video about it today, like something about production. I don't know. I can't remember if it's twenty twenty seven or twenty twenty eight, but so I know for sure he has that. I'm sure that's not the only movie he's gonna be doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah, that'll be sick. I I love the girl with the dragon tattoo though. Yeah. I feel like that's kind of a underrated Fincher movie. Yeah, definitely. What do you you gave it a four and a half too? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Really good plot. Just yeah. Good good movie. then I watched The Death of Stalin, which is supposed to be like a super like kind of underrated like comedy. I don't know, I thought it was funny. I didn't think it was like really good. I don't know. Maybe I'm missing the mark here, but it's got a three point eight on letterbox. I gave it a three. so it's just like about Stalin when he dies, like what happens. And honestly I have no idea like if this is like actually how he died or like and they just like fabricate it from there or if this is like a really based on a true event or like true events and they kind of make it into a funny thing, but I don't know, I have to look more into it, but I just didn't think it was like that funny. so yeah, that's from twenty seventeen. Then I watched an absolute banger, dude, like maybe one of Just so good. Lost in translation. I've been wanting to watch this for so long. That's right. What the heck? Dude, I just look on here. What? Nick Porter gives it a one and a half stars. Dude, what? I'm gonna text him, dude. So yeah, I just one of my f favorite rappers really likes this movie and I just been wanting to watch it for a long time. Okay who Logic. okay. Yeah. And he's got he has a movie. I don't know how I haven't seen that yet. but he made a movie and he loves Tarantino too, so yeah, Bill Murray i is like so good. Scarlet Johansson is so good too, and it's just like a mind It's just like a d a movie that just makes you think about life, which I mean a very vague description of the movie, but I was gonna s I was gonna say do you think you could You want a little more? Yeah. I don't really know I don't know much about Well let me read you the Yeah, sure. The the synopsis. Yep. Two lost souls visiting Tokyo, the young neglected wife Of a photographer and a watched up movie star shooting a T V commercial, find an odd solence and Freedom to be real in each other's company, away from their lives in America. Dude, it's just like it's like not even like a romance movie. It's just like psychological. Yeah, it's like very I mean it is, but well I guess it's kinda up to you. Like the ending is very open and I really need to do a a YouTube deep dive on this 'cause that's always my favorite. Watching a movie and then heading to YouTube. so yeah, that was really good. I gave it a five stars. Yeah, I just I love Bill Murray too, so yeah, that was good. then I watched Argo, Ben Affleck, directs and stars in it. I thought it was good, but not crazy good. Like you should win best picture over Django. What a load of BS, dude. but yeah, I thought it was good. Nice gr nice grab. Thanks. Appreciate it. then I watched great comedy, This is the end, which is just hilarious. James Franco, Jonah Hill, Seth Rogan. Danny McBride, Craig Robinson, Michael Sarah. It's so funny. There's a it's like a super stacked cast and it's Seth Rogan directs it. and it's just like hilarious like cameos and just like kinda exactly what you would think. It's like about the end of the world and all these guys. Like they they play themselves in the movie. So it's like about all them like being friends and like Just like the end of the world. What? well I never I never heard of it. yeah. and then I watched the Hurt Locker, but I haven't logged it. what did you think? Really good. Really? Yeah. Really good. Like Best Picture good or Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't know what else is from that year. I think that's twenty thirteen. No. No? Older? Yeah two thousand eight? It was Avatar year. that that's two thousand eight. Who bastards. That's a tough year. Dang, that's crazy. It won over Bastards and yeah, it's 2008. Yeah. Bastards and Avatar? Dang. I don't know about that. I I I've never seen it. I can't imagine it's better than Bastards, though. Yeah, it's not. Okay. And it's not better than Avatar. Really? I don't even know if Bastards is better than Avatar. That's not crazy. Is that crazy? Am I crazy? Is Avatar the best movie ever? The first one? Yeah. Dude, I swear when we were talking about Avatar, you were like, just so Loki Fire and Ash is better than one. Which is fine. I that but like No, what am I saying, dude? One is one is the best. But we were talking about Avatar, and I I was just going through it for the first time and you were like. And I looked, I think the only one you had was Way of Water at like a three. And I'm pretty sure I do 'cause I was just doing like trying to re organize my top a hundred. Bro, you have Avatar One as a three. No way. Yes. Are you kidding me? We have the first Avatar as well. When did I watch this? Dude, you know what? I watched it in on a trip. You watched it a year a over a year ago. Tennessee. And that wasn't even for the first time. So I don't know what I'm talking. I'm gonna watch this. I'm gonna watch this this week. Yeah, I'm gonna do it. No, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't don't make me do it. And then I think you have the second one as like a three of water sucks, bro. Bro, Way of Water's the best one in my like maybe I'll rewatch all of bro. I don't think it's actually even close for me. What? You think Way of Water is way better than Avatar One? Yeah. What? What what'd you give Way of Water a five? Five. What'd you give Avatar One? Four and a half. Okay, so it's not way better. The gap between a four and a half and a five. It could be it could be really close. That's true. Yeah, that's very true. But it also could be large. Dude, it's not it's not even cl it's the opposite. Well you Avatar, but you have a way of walking Yeah, maybe I don't. Bastards is better than Avatar though. Especially according to you, because you have Avatar as a three star three years ago five. It was a year ago. It was not Dude after it was a three star for you. I don't know, man. Well, 'cause I was I don't know, I just I ha probably had it logged. I wasn't really Crazy. I just I and I just appreciated it over more over time. So but you've appreciated it more enough over time to make it a five star without even watching it since that's how good it is. Okay. You never do that, you never think about how good a movie is. Yeah, I think about how good a movie is, but maybe if maybe it goes from like a three to a three and a half or like a what about like all the people that that watch Dacer right now? Giving it a two. Yeah. They're gonna see it in like a year and a half, and they're gonna be like, What? Yeah, after they watch it again. Yeah, true. Where you're already making the claim now. I'm just different, bro. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, you may be. That's alright. That's a fair. That's don't say that's all right. I'm just different, like like I'm the special ed, like I'm different like that. yeah, it's cool. Yeah, you're different. Anyways, what did you watch? I watched I watched Birdman 'cause I wanted to watch more in your E2 and it's been on my list for a while. Really good. Kinda weird. Like in the same sense that Digger is. Mm-hmm. There's actually a a lot of like parallelism between the two. Really? Yeah. Like it's literally it's Ooh, I was just about to spoil something for Digger. I already know I already know that. I know. I I was I was gonna spoil something for Digger by by saying how similar they were. just by talking about Birdman, but I caught myself. Good catch. They're not similar at all. Yeah, actually guys, they're way different. Yeah. Birdman though, Michael Keaton's really good. The supporting cast is just really, really good. It's shot really cool. the set design is really cool. It's like this actor who is he's trying to he's trying to find his way. And he's doing it like on stage and like plays and stuff. Where he used to be this big movie star. And there's like just some camera shots in there. There's not as much of it in Digger, which I was kind Anticipating 'cause wait so you watched Digger and I thought you watched this before Digger. I did. Wait, did I I don't think I talked about it though 'cause I didn't have it logged on letterbox. Or maybe I did. I thought you did have it logged. I remember we were talking about it before the episode. 'Cause we were talking about the ending. I I I didn't talk about it, but in your E2s it's got an interesting voice and visual language that I'm kinda drawn to. I give it a four stars. Nice. Wildwood. It's Wildwood month, you guys. Okay, Wildwood Wildwood year. Dude, yes, it actually is. Wildwood's coming out in a couple weeks. Lyca Studios stop animation film. I've never seen any of Leica Studios stuff. And Addison is not a big movie watcher and She wanted to watch Kubo on the Two Strings with me. So I'm like, heck yeah, let's do it. Cause it's a Leica Studios movie. Trying to do some prep before Wildwood and Kubo and the Two Strings was so cool. And I'm really excited to check out more of their stuff. It just looks so cool. It's like Coco, but just way better. Wow. Yeah. Way better than Coco. Yeah. Dang. I'm not a big Coco guy. Like I thought it was fine. But yeah, I just I thought The storytelling was really good. The stop motion was really cool. Watched a ton of behind the scenes stuff of all the puppets that they did and their set design. Really cool. Really excited for Wildwood and I'm really excited to watch the rest of Leica's stuff. probably watched Coraline this week. Nice. watched Drive from twenty eleven. Kind of like relatively early Ryan Gosling. It's a very like stylistic movie, like the director Nicholas Wending Reffin or Winding, I don't know how to pronounce it. He's he's kind of one of those directors that has a very distinct style, and color pal palette almost. He's he loves like vibrant colors and stuff like that. This seems a little bit more toned down and like accessible. And I think that's why a lot of people really, really like it. I thought it was good though. I gave it a three and a half. Ryan Gosling's really good in it. he doesn't do a whole lot of talking, but he just kinda commands every scene that he's in, which I think to me is like the biggest indication of a movie star. But yeah, I really liked like I loved like the first hour of this movie. And then I think the third act just lost me like a little bit where I feel like it just kinda lost its momentum. but yeah, I still had a good time with it and I'm glad I watched it. rewatch Sing Street, five star banger. great soundtrack, just great everything. One of the movies I made Andrew watch a couple weeks ago for that episode. yeah, it was my first rewatch of it. It's still amazing. And then last night I watched Old Boy for the first time. One of the movies that's been on my watch list for the longest. I think it's my first Park Chan Wook movie. No, okay. Park Chanwick's the director, he had a movie come out last year called No Other Choice, which I watched and really liked, gave it a four star. Does he do Memories of Murder? Or is that No, that's Bangjun. Yep. That's one that I really want to watch. So watch Old Boy. It's kinda like the I don't know, it's like the generic like film bro movie for like maybe not super casual watchers, but like like you for foreign film for sure. Yeah. Like it's just Yeah. I you see stuff about it all the time if you're on like film talk or film Twitter or whatever. it's just been kind of daunting to like I don't know, there are some movies that are on your watch list where everyone's like, Yeah, this movie's so good where it almost like prevents me from watching it because I'm just like, this is kinda got a high bar here. Yeah. but it lived up to it. I gave it a four and a half. It's not quite a five star for me, but it was so good. there's like some editing stuff that is going on in this movie and the camera movements that is just insane. And I thought I had this movie like down from the beginning, and I did not. I was way wrong. I love the atmosphere and the tone. It's very disturbing, which I had no idea. Like I didn't know what I was getting into. but the way that the story is told is really, really good and I had a great time with it. Yeah, I definitely want to check out more of Park Chanwick stuff. Excuse me. yeah, and apparently like Old Boy is a part of like a unofficial trilogy, so Like where it's not like the same character like it's like a thematic trilogy, I guess. So I don't know. But he he's got a cut he's got a lot of other movies I want to check out. And so far in his first two movies I've seen I've really liked so Yeah. I think that's all I watched this week. movie news. Filming on the Batman Part 2 has been paused. Sad. Matt Reeves has had to step away from the film temporary temporarily for personal reasons. There hasn't been an announcement of another delay, which is good. and there's been nothing released about like Matt Reeves' situation. Obviously, I hope there's nothing like too serious going on. But man, it's just every time Batman's in the news, it's not it's never like I don't know. It's never like ooh, they pushed it up. Yeah, or like, ooh, here's the teaser that's not just Batman's face for five seconds. So yeah, I just can't believe it's been so long, but I don't know. It's gonna be great, but it's just we might not get it till twenty thirty. Sicario Three is officially moving forward with Emily Blunt, Benicio del Toro, and Josh Brolin all returning. I've only seen the first one, which is really good. They kind of had the dynamic duo of director Denis Villeneuve and cinematographer Roger Deacons for that. from what I've seen, the second one isn't very good, but they also didn't have Emily Blunt there. And if you've seen the first one, she's very pivotal to the story, so I I don't know. I we'll we'll see. I don't know who's Padriac McKinley's set to direct. I don't know. I'm not familiar with his movies, so does Vilneur do one and two? He just does the first one. So I don't know, we'll see. I've seen people that are ex really excited about that just 'cause they're bringing Blunt back, but Who knows? Jack O'Connell and Odessa Zion have been cast as flat earthers and the end of the world as we know it. I don't know anything else about the movie, but Jack O'Connell is he was Ramek from Sinners last year, and then he was in Twenty Eight Years Later Years Later the Bone Temple from this year, and Odessa Zion was in a supporting role of Marty Supreme last year and I really liked so I was just more interested in that pairing from the cast side of things just 'cause those seem to be two up and coming actors that have been doing some interesting projects lately and I really liked their performances from last year. So I'm honestly pretty I'm just interested in that. I don't know what it's about, but we'll see. And then last thing, Digger, which this is a pro digger podcast. Me and Andrew are Digger Truthers from day one. and I think when we recorded last week, it was pretty fresh and we were like, Yeah, we liked it but I mean, he he gave it a five stars, I gave it a four and a half. I don't know if we saw if we said what our ratings were last time. I think we just kinda like, Yeah, we liked it. But then after we got done recording, I was like, Is Digger peak? Or like I think it 'cause it it's just a lot to digest, but just it's already aged well for me in like four or five days or whatever it's been. but it is doing terrible at the box office. Yeah. And it's projected to lose two hundred and fifty million dollars, which is one of the biggest Hollywood bombs ever. so part of the reason it's not doing well is because the it's a very difficult movie to market. There's multiple twists in the movie. So it's kinda hard to show footage of that movie. Right. And yeah, you can't without the movie stuff. Yeah, you can't market the movie for what it is. Yeah. You have to market it as something else. Yeah, which is definitely a challenge and I've seen people that have liked the movie and have been like the trailers sucked, but I just some like I don't know how you make a trailer for a movie like that. And I Like I th I think the trailers are fine. Like I don't I don't think they suck. I just think it's really challenging to put together like a cohesive trailer without spoiling stuff. and I appreciated it because I feel like so many trailers that I see now just give away so much of the movie. Yeah. And then you get the crowd that is both A, you know, we don't want our trailers to reveal too much and then You have Digger that doesn't reveal too much in the movie and they're mad about it. And then B, they're like, Yeah, we need more original movies in the in the theaters. And then Endgame Encore comes out and everyone's going to see that and no one sees Digger. So I I don't know. I'm I'm ca I'm confused. But yeah, definitely the marketing was a challenge. The immediate critic review. Just not being like overwhelmingly positive has been a challenge. I think too, like I was talking to Andrew before his coming out. I was like, there's been no like early screenings or like they had an embar an embargo on for a long time, so like people weren't allowed to talk about the movie. Where a lot of times movies, if they like feel good about it, they'll They'll have early screenings for critics, influencers, like media, stuff like that. And they might have an embargo up until like three weeks before it releases. And then people start talking about it and then they get positive press 'cause they know that people are gonna like it and then it they have a successful opening weekend. But maybe just digger knew that the critics We're gonna be super split on it, so they didn't have early screenings or they didn't let people talk about it until opening weekend. So Yeah, I feel like when a a movie like that comes out too and people are like pretty split on it or it's like not doing well at the box office, it's not gonna like there's no like rallying anymore because like people will just put on social media like Dude, I was getting into some comments on the social media like Yeah. It's a war zone like and and like people just posting videos like diggers set to lose fifteen billion dollars or whatever. I'm like, why are you posting like people just need like they're just doing it, they just post whatever for views. Yeah. So they don't care like whatever. So it's just like it's just people just backpacking off of yeah, whatever these dumb critics say, like Yeah. It's just like There it's been interesting though. It's got a three point eight on Letterboxd. Yeah, which is actually crazy just 'cause So the people who know Ball and are on Letterboxd. Yeah. Yeah. They like it. But it's been interesting to see like there have been some people that like the Barstool podcast I listen to. And there's a guy in there who gave it like a two stars, but he's like but I would recommend like everyone go and see it because It is just a really weird and original movie. Huh? He just didn't like it or Yeah, I mean he he just didn't like it, but he's he could acknowledge that it was a very like original movie. And 'cause there was also one guy that gave it a five th so there was a five star, a two star, and then I think two three and a half on the Barstool pod. So they were like kinda all over the all over the place. And it was fun to hear them talk about it. 'Cause they just had differing opinions. But even the guy that didn't like it was like, Yeah, go see it in theaters because it is like a spectacle and it's Tom Cruise and it's different. It honestly is like different from anything I've seen, which Yeah. Is like rare. Like even trree of life is is is different. Like Tree of Life was the last time that it which wasn't that long ago, but that was like the last time I was like, Yeah, I've never seen a movie like this. Yeah. But that's like a lot more spiritual and reflective. Yeah. But like before that I was like, I don't I don't know. I can't remember. I've never seen a movie like this. Yeah. I it's yeah, it's completely original I mean and it was like I don't know, they're like the first I'll I'll just say the first act of the movie, I just kept on looking over at Andrew, I'm like, bro, what is going on? Yeah. But it was like I was like having a fun time, like trying to figure out what was going on. And then yeah, that's all I'm gonna say about it. But I'm trying to like find like some reviews on it, damn it. Yeah. But box office, it's not the be all end all for you know the quality of a movie, obviously. Tell them. it's I mean, it's been a it's been a great sensation, especially in 2026, with how well the box office has been doing. and it's been great to see. I think it's kind of reflective of the excitement that people have for movies, especially in like our generation, the younger generation, kind of driving the movie theater. we've seen some. Small budget films do great like Obsession, which has been really cool to see. but I I thought it'd be fun to list list some movies that that bombed at the box office and then later have kind of been reclaimed as classics and have a have a big following. I'm hoping that's the case with Digger too. But yeah, so first off, Andrew, one of your favorites, the thing from nineteen eighty-two. The sci-fi horror was rejected by audiences who found it bleak and it made just nineteen million dollars on a fifteen million dollar budget. And it also had to compete with E.T., which did not help its case at all. yeah, I still haven't seen the thing yet, but I know how highly it's held. I've seen bits and pieces of it because my I have seen my brother and dad watching it. And it's definitely something. I'm trying to think of like B. I'm trying to think of like it's not like completely original, but like that idea kind of like style of movie is like I don't know, it's kinda like twelve angry men, like Yeah, close proxy. I don't know. It's like, yeah. So I I mean probably for that time period, something that not like peop people hadn't really seen. Yeah. especially mixed in with like the sci fi. So I think in a sense it's kind of like digger too, like it's just something that people haven't really seen. Like, you know, a new style almost. I mean it's it was very like I mean that's a very sci fi heavy era, but it kinda d it kinda has its o like a a very stylistic spin that kinda separates it from a lot of those other sci fi movies in my opinion. And I think that's the general public's opinion too. So yeah. I mean people love it now. It's I had no idea it flopped until I was looking into this. Yeah, I didn't know that either. another one from the same year, Sci Fi Spectacle, is Ridley Scott's Blade Runner. it made thirty two million on just a twenty eight million dollar budget. And it faced studio interference and lukewarm reviews. the director's cuts and home video transformed its moody cyberpunk aesthetic into a sci-fi benchmark. I feel like if I am looking up like greatest sci-fi movies of all time, Blade Runner is always on there. especially with Blade Runner 2049 that came out in 2017. That's reintroduced a lot of fans or introduced a lot of fans to The original Blade Runner. I just watched it for the first time whenever we did the Ridley Scott episode, and I loved it. it's it's really freaking good. It looks great. It's aged really, really well. And yeah, another one that I'm surprised I mean, all these I'm surprised to see. Yeah. This one I've definitely heard before. Fight Club from 1999. it grossed 37 million domestically. On a sixty three million dollar budget, dividing early critics and audiences. It exploded on D V D sales and turned its anti consumerist satire into a massive cultural movie. I there's a story about Brad Pitt sitting with Ed Norton like at like an early screening and people are booing or whatever. People are booing and Pitt turns to Norton and said this is the best movie I'm ever gonna be in. So he knew That's crazy people were booing. I know. It it is a it is a You hate it too. What are you talking about? No, I don't. Yes, you do. Well, you have like a three or something. No, I give it a four. Yeah. So you hate it. I took it in the in the in the top two fifty draft and you were like, yeah. Yeah. I was like, yeah, you can have it. Yeah. So you hate it. You're just like the critics, dude. No, I liked it. Yeah, I I'll say my viewing experience was tainted a little bit because you see all these like right away when you're getting on film, talk, whatever, it's you get it ruined. Top ten mo no top ten movies with biggest plot twists, whatever. Right. So right away from the beginning of the movie, I'm like trying to figure out what this plot twist was, and I figured it out. Okay. So I I'm just that like you I know, I'm saying it tainted my viewing experience. So you ruined the movie for yourself. Basically. All right. That's fine. But I will say, like, that's what happened with me with Old Boy last night is right away I knew there was a twist. So I tried picking it right from the start. Yeah. And I was wrong. But Yeah, I don't even know what I what I was thinking during it. But yeah, but so that's that's I mean, yeah, that's I mean Yeah, that's crazy. I I can I guess I can see for when it came out, I guess people Yeah, I don't know. I don't get booing though. Wasn't that at can? It might have been a can film. I don't know actually. Yeah, whatever, doesn't matter. But yeah, that's yeah, it's a funny story. definitely one I've heard of. Fight Club for sure. A certified poticy five star banger, which we talked about in our review for this. Should we get You say that like yeah. Yeah. Like a rain like a rain like a star going across. Yeah, we should. We should. Our editor should do that. Yeah. So I mean it we we talked about how it did not do good at the box office and then it kind of exploded on rental and D V D. but go check out that episode if you want to learn more about it. We kinda went really in depth on the history and behind the scenes stuff and its failure and then kind of reclaimed success. So go check that one out if you wanna see more about that. then the last one that I have Which there's many more that we could talk about too. but this one stood out to me. Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. Originally it like people they weren't even like split on it, like they just hated it. Kubrick and the lead actress actually got nominated for Razzie. And the Razzies is like Madam Webb gets nominated for that. Do they still do that? They still do it. Really? Yeah. I didn't even know about that. That's hilarious. And it's literally yeah, for the worst movies worst movies of the year, like you get the worst actress, like worst actor. And so Kubrick and like the Shining was nominated and then the lead actress for the Shining, which is just crazy 'cause her performance is incredible and like Very it's a very real performance. Yeah. Because of what was going on set there, which is a different story. But yeah, so a lot of a lot of great movies that bombed at the box office. Stephen King hated it. Did he really? Yeah. that's he hated how Kubrick like just adapted the story. He d it was like he was like, This is not how my story should be. Like he was Wow. He said like Nicholson's character. was like too crazy right away. Like Nicholson was like in the book, I guess it's like he like the it shows his descent more. The the place like slowly turns him crazy and like that's kinda how it's like yeah. That's just like him slowly getting crazier, but Nicholson is just like off the bat he's already like creepy. Yeah. But I mean that's have you seen The Shining? Yeah. Okay. I have to a long time ago. I wanna watch it though. I know I need to re watch it too. Yeah, I saw it long like that's like probably one of the first movies I remember watching. That's like Really? Yeah, that I saw that a long, long time ago. I was definitely a teenage like mid teenager for me, maybe. Yeah. Can't remember. But yeah, so some bit some big names. Yeah, so I I didn't even write this down, but Babylon did terrible at the box office. Babylon's a certified I love Babylon like a lot. And certified five star Podicy Banger? No, because you give it a three and a half. Yeah, I d that's that's on that's my that's the first movie I ever logged on Letterboxed. Serious? Yeah. Dang, shout out Babylon. Yeah. So I don't that's that's like that doesn't even count. Broke it. Okay, so maybe I mean I'm gonna adjust some random I don't know if it's a five, true. You can't it can't it's not official yet. Right. Yeah. But keep on the lookout for Babylon. Especially on Kalshi for the next, you know, Podicy five five star banger. Yeah. The odds might be going up for that might be insider trading. I mean for us if I'm you can say that. You can say keep be on the lookout. Be on the lookout. Nah, you probably can't. That might that Yeah. Don't be on the lookout. Don't be on the lookout. Wink wink. All right. We love talking about movies. We love talking about a lot of different variables that go into movie making and things that make the product great. a lot of times we talk about different techniques that a director's using, or we talk about the cinematographer on a movie. and our money ball, we were talking Brad Pitt being the producer. And we just thought it'd be a good idea to kind of break some of those down for you. And honestly, like before this episode, I wasn't a hundred percent sure like what does a director actually do. I was gonna say, like I literally before I had no idea what a producer does. Yeah, same. I had literally zero idea. Honestly, the one I like kinda knew the most about was cinematographer, but that's just because I feel like cinematographer is the most straightforward one. Yeah. Or like the director is complicated and it it d differs from director to director. Well right. Yeah. Even director is like I yeah, I guess that's one of the things too, is like it's not a concrete like does this, this, and this. It's kinda yeah, like you said, varies between movies and varies between relationships with producers too. Director. Chris Nolan, Denis Villeneuve, Steven Spielberg. Scorsese. Scorsese. I'm trying to think of like people that we've mentioned on the pod at least. George Lucas. George Lucas. Yeah, I feel like I feel like Kubrick. You hate Kubrick. I don't You hate Kubrick. I do not I hate I don't like two thousand one Space Odyssey. You hate Kubrick. What's the Full Metal Jacket? I haven't seen that. You gotta watch that. I'm trying to think you'd like that. Trying to think of director? No, I'm trying to think of Kubrick movies that I've seen. Besides The Shining in two thousand one, or maybe that might be it. I just know that I love one of and I hated two thousand one. It could be The Shining or whatever. Yeah. Francis Ford. Francis Ford. We haven't talked about him a lot. Yeah, I know. But he He's like literally the goat. Yeah. The Godfather movies. Apocalypse now. Apocalypse now. Like those in itself are like I still have to I haven't seen now. Have you seen The Godfathers? I've seen like I've seen part one. Okay. Yeah. TikTok, half TikTok, half saw it. So I I haven't seen it. I'll say that. I haven't seen it. But it insists upon itself, so I'm not gonna watch it. that's good. but yeah, he him trying to think of other directors. Akira Kurosawa's a big one that I haven't gotten into. I've I'm sure a lot of people listening probably don't know, but he is like kind of the big samurai guy for Japanese movies. I've seen two of his films so far. not like I didn't like love either of them. Yeah. So I haven't watched like One of his like super big Sam like I haven't seen seven samurai, which is kinda like his big epic. that one's what he got like a four like a four point nine a letter. Yeah, it's just insane. Yeah. David Lynch is a big one. Yeah. I haven't seen I haven't seen yeah, Fincher. Bong Junho, Park Shanwook. Yeah. A lot a lot of great directors in the industry. But I think a lot of people think of directors as the person behind the camera. That is like that's very, very rare for the director to actually be behind the camera. Ridley Scott. Ridley Scott, yeah. We literally did an episode on Ridley Scott. Terrence Malik, bro. There we Terrence Malik. Now we're talking. Tarantino. Tarrantino. Here we go. Now they're flowing. Firing. In general, the director is the one with the vision. And I wrote the cinematographer helps bring that director's vision photography or for photographically. Don't know if that's a word. It's gotta be a word. So the director is the one with the vision, and the cinematographer helps bring that director's vision f photographically. Well there. Photographically to life. That's what I said. yeah, as like a general rule. But really it's like the director has this vision and basically the rest of the crew and cast is doing what they can and helping to help bring that vision to life. The director is he's the last line of defense. He's making all the decisions on everything. He's okaying everything. they guide the actors and the other crew members and departments to realize the vision. They help with casting actors, deciding location. Production design and costume design, overseeing post production, edits, grading. they have to keep in mind the schedule and budget for all this stuff. you know, a lot of times when working with studios, you're only given a certain amount of money for a project, you're only given a certain amount of days to shoot. they're responsible for staying within the budget and staying on track of the schedule. The Odyssey was both under budget and ahead of schedule, which I think is kind of crazy. Dang. So that's like one of the most complicated movies ever made. The producer Emma Thomas. Yeah. And Chris Nolan has a producing credit on there too. Everything. I think everything. Yeah. That's surprising because of how much of a like a spectacle it is, but also like Chris Nolan is a guy that he's he seems like an ahead of schedule kind of guy. Like he's he's got it all planned out. Yep. Think it's worth noting that like some directors write their own screenplays too. but others they just prefer written screenplays already. Chris Nolan's done both. He's he's written some and taken some. He's he's more known for writing his. a lot of people compare Nolan and Vilnuve. Vilnuve usually has someone write it for him. but so when we're talking about that process, like writing the screenplay can I mean Who knows how long that could I mean that could take years. You could I don't know, get writer's block or something. Like who that that that could take forever. but as far let's say the scripts done. The timeline is something like this. So pre-production. So this is pre-production, production, then post production. Once the script or once the screenplay's written, you have a script, which can obviously be adjusted as as you go. but pre-production, the foundation of the film is being built. The director is developing the creative vision and visual language for the film and is making key decisions before everyone is on set and the camera's ready to roll. The director during this time is working quite closely with the cinematographer to plan shot lists, camera angles, movements, and lighting approaches for each scene. Some directors do storyboarding to have a visual blueprint for each scene, which we talked a lot about when we were doing that 2019 episode with Parasite. Bang Jin Ho, he literally has basically every scene drawn out so that he has that visual blueprint to fall back on. I think it helps directors in a lot of instances just have confidence in what what their scenes are gonna look like. other people are more improvised with where people are gonna be in each scene or what each scene's gonna look like. They're more go with the flow. But if the if they were doing storyboard that they they'd be working with the cinematographer on this, so that the cinematographer knows exactly what the director wants. And that's kind of one of the distinct differences that can be made between a director and cinematographer is the cinematographer is like serving the director to what the director wants. The cinematographer basically just has the camera where the director is saying, Okay, I want like this in the shot. I want I want you to move a specific way. I'm placing the actors in this scene. And you gotta get all this stuff basically. And I'm sure There are some directors that have really good relationships with their cinematographer and just go, Yeah, like this is how I want the like this is what emotion I want conveyed and then the cinematographer just kinda goes to work. The director is also working closely with the production designer to define the overall look of the movie, location, sets, props, and color. And then they'll finalize the shooting schedule. When are we shooting each scene? Where? What setups do we need? How much time do we need to budget for each scene? Are we gonna shoot the movie chronologically or shoot the scenes in a way that's more effective and efficient? What scenes do I need to budget extra time for? these are all just important questions that need answers in pre-production. One interesting story is that I've heard is Spielberg with E. T., like he was dealing with a lot of child actors in that movie. So to make it like easier for them to tap into their character and tap into the emotion that they're feeling, they shot like the entire movie chronologically, which is really rare 'cause a lot of times you're on a certain schedule, like if you have a certain set up or you're on a certain location, like if you just gotta do all the stuff. Yeah, like you're You know, maybe you're only on the location for the first fifteen minutes of the movie and then at the end of the movie, well, if you're in some other country, maybe, like you you just you have to shoot those scenes at that time. but Spielberg was very, very adamant about being with these child actors and shooting it in order of the movie. so yeah, Spielberg with ET, shot that in chronological order so that it was easier for the cast. but like I was saying, a lot of times that's not the case. You and like again, like you gotta answer all these all those questions. You don't wanna run in a situation where it's time to shoot and people are confused. you also are gonna wanna budget more and more time for impactful scenes. 'cause then you end up rushing a scene that's gonna like the emotional core of the movie because you didn't budget for it. So there's just a lot that goes on pre production that a director kinda has to finalize, and then it does like Once the cameras start rolling, like you're kinda on this tight schedule and strict strict schedule. so it's important to have that stuff laid out beforehand. and then in production, directors on set with all the actors and necessary crew for filming. The director's orchestrating the actors, communicating with the camera crew, and improvising on the spot. before each scene, the director's communicating with the actors, the intent of the scene, the emotions they want conveyed, blocking. which is how the characters are gonna move in relation to the camera. so there's a lot of intentional narrative choices as far as how the actors are moving throughout the scene, how the camera's moving throughout the scene. So when we say blocking, that's what we're talking about. and then the director can also give performance direction for the actors, and then the same sort of process goes goes on in between takes as well. And at the same time, the director's working with the cinematographer, they're discussing how to best shoot each scene so then in posts that can be edited together. there has to be cohesiveness to the scenes and the director kinda always has to be conscious of what scene is coming. What scene is coming before the scene that they're shooting. you know, there there are some movies I think it's like s s like one of the born movies is has like the highest like cut rate or something like that. Or like the most amount of shots 'cause it just like is cut like every two seconds or something. Yeah. I think it's like the it's not the first one. 'Cause that yeah, you just watched the first one. It's definitely not the first one. I feel like that's not even something like you think about either though. Yeah. But so it's That that is a a unique narrative choice to be cutting that much to where it's supposed to feel sporadic. But a lot of a lot of times when you're in editing, like there there's gotta be like a seamlessness to going from one scene to another, and where the camera is from one scene to another. so a lot of choices go on from the director's chair, But again, it's that communication aspect with the cinematographer, because the cinematographer is ultimately the one with the camera in their hand. directors and communication with the entire crew. If the lighting needs to be changed, if the wardrobe needs a tweak, the sound, etcetera. Again, the role of the director is just making the decisions on all these matters. he has crew to expedite the process and make his vision come to life. But the director has ultimate authority when it comes to the finished product. And I w I watched a video. It's basically like the director's like the CEO of the company and then like Everyone else is kinda underneath him, so it's not like the director's doing everything. but he's overseeing everything and kinda making that final decision on everything. Yeah, I was gonna say like the director is like the coach kinda. Yeah, that's a good producer's kinda like like a GM or like a owner of the team, I or What's a cinematographer? Player. No, the actors are the assistant coach. Assistant coach. The water boy. Yeah. Cinematographer. he's the offensive coordinator. Offensive coordinator, okay. That makes sense. Yeah. And then So after you get all the scenes shot, everything has to be added together in post production. you have hours of hours of footage, much more than needed. And now the director determines what is going make the final cut to show to the production company or the producers. directors oftentimes working with an editor during this process. Sound design happens in post production as well. The director's collaborating with the sound team to create the sonic landscape. They can help amplify the atmosphere or tone, build emotional moments, and give clarity on dialogue. And then the actual score for the movie comes in post to working with a composer. Color grading is oftentimes the final step. The director will work with the colorists to set the look and create a visual consistency for the film. and then once it's basically after post is done, then the director goes on to market it, submit it to festivals, Yeah. And so f I I l I looked up the average for an average Hollywood film Pre production, so after the script is finalized, is anywhere between three to seven months, on average of a hundred and forty six days. Production is one to four months, average of a hundred and six days, and post production is seven months to a year, average of three hundred and one days. which that really surprised me that the majority of the time is in post. So you finish you wrap filming for a movie and you think like, all right. Let's get chopped up and let's get it out. Yeah, basically. But they there's a lot of stuff that goes into post that what do you think the Batman average for the Batman part two? My goodness. The averages might go up. Yeah, the it's gonna by like a lot. It's gonna be an outlier that skews the data. Hundred forty six one like we're looking at a year and a half just from pre through post, but then when you're talking about and that's on average, it could take a lot longer than that. But then when you talk about actually writing the script in there, which often oftentimes directors do end up doing. This could be anywhere from like a three to five year process on average. And then there's a tons of stories where it takes way longer than that. Yeah, I w what what do you got? I got a couple other things but about director or about Just anything. Well I was It's Andrew Mulsler's turn. No, I was just gonna say like I don't like what we were saying before, I didn't really know what a producer was or did. Mm-hmm. And like the main role, kinda what you were saying for producers like basically kind of the in the the in between between like the production company and like the director. So like kind of trying to keep the Between like the director and and the production company, they're trying to like keep it on track. Keep it on budget. But a pr like a producer will just keep keep the movie on track, blah blah blah, like kind of what you were saying. but when like the the kind of I don't know, like the creative like like the arguments would come in between like director and producer, like I think what I originally thought when we were kind of looking into it as like director would ultimately kinda get like the last say, which I think in some cases is true, but other cases like producer or executive producer will get like the the final say in like what happens or like what goes in the movie. Yeah. I think it kind of depends on the movie and whatever. Like Kevin Feige, like for Marvel, yeah. Kind of just gets like like kind of whatever he says will go. Like I think he I think it's like a relationship that kinda needs to be like a strong one 'cause you don't want to have to like say that. Like you know, yeah. We kinda wanna just like producers probably just want to just trust the directors and just say this. And then in some rare cases, a producer will be a director as well. Like Spike Lee produces and directs do the right thing. so and when you're I mean like the main reason you get a a producer or a production company is 'cause you don't have the money for the film. Mm-hmm. So when, you know, you're trying to like if you're doing like a you know, you're doing like a big IP movie, producers have to option, which is like or or outright buy the script. Optioning is when producers find an IP that they like and try to acquire d acquire it for from whoever they need to get the IP rights from. and the other option would is just like buying it outright. So optioning just means you get it for like a certain amount of time. Like you get the rights, make the movie, and then basically like you're just using the rights essentially to make the movie. So like for big IPs, I'm sure that's what they do, I would guess. or they just buy, or like, you know, I don't know if Warner Brothers originally had the rights to like Batman, but I'm sure at some point they just bought it from whoever. but then you get like kind of that relationship between directors and producers. you know, like what kind of like relationship that is, like w who's gonna get the final say or whatever, like George Lucas and Gary Kurtz. But yeah, producers too, like in old Hollywood, producers would do like multiple movies at once sometimes too. So like they'd kinda like the studios were kinda like kinda like all in one, you know, like you'd have like a the Warner Brothers lot, you know, all the movies that are being shot. Dude. And they could like bounce around, blah blah blah, do whatever. So Yeah, you see that in like You see that? Yeah, like in Babylon, once upon a time. Lala Land maybe is set in like present day. but they have like But still, I mean yeah that's still how it is. Like they still have huge just like yeah, you know like stretch set streets. Yeah. But yeah, dude. Yeah, Babylon and Once Upon a Time it's like Yeah, you have the the whole lot is like yeah, the Warner Brothers or whatever. thing. Yeah, so like Gone with the Wind and The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, same same producer. And then like Wizard of Oz and Babes in Arms, those are the same producer too at the same time. probably rolling in that money. Dude, yeah, that Gone of the Wind, especially. Gone of the Wind, crazy money. Have you seen it? Yeah. You like it? Yeah. I like yeah, I liked it. Yeah, but so like there's a lot of different types of producers too. You know, you always see like executive producer, consulting producer, I don't know what else, like producer. Yeah. yeah. But executive producer is just like mate mainly financing from what I found or whatever. so they're they're the ones that are like kinda tied to the production company. So it's probably someone from, you know, one of the bigger production companies doing that. consulting producer is when I found that's what I 'cause I saw this for the first time. Or maybe it didn't say consulting producer, but when I watched Lost in Translation, I saw like maybe it was like associative producer and it was Francis Ford Copla 'cause the director is Sophie. It's his daughter, yeah, who does Lost in Translation. So I thought that was kinda interesting. So he probably just, you know, yeah helped her or whatever. But yeah, I mean yeah, producer is essentially like I wrote is like the GM of the sports team. Like they're making sure the director is gonna be able to achieve their their f their vision and but they gotta do it within a certain amount of time. Yeah. So that's where you get kind of like the the disagreements between producers and and directors. Yeah, I guess that's I I was kind of making it seem like the director's like the I don't know, like ha can make every creative decision, but I think I think in most films that's the case though. Yeah, but then y you do hear these stories about where the production company wants something else or they they make a cut to the movie. Well, I feel like directors are like So many of them are like divas, so like so like they'll just be like, No, I'm not doing it. Or like Well Tarantino is Yeah, notorious. Yes, very known very known for that. But but like we see all the time like directors' cuts for movies coming out. Yeah. And that's because the production company they have money invested and you know, may the director feels that in order to get to hammer everything home they need more time, but the production company Doesn't want a three hour movie in theaters 'cause they don't think it's gonna make as much money and then they cut it down. And that's why they're always better. Yeah, honestly. oftentimes directors cuts are are better. Yeah, for sure. I mean we don't have that because they're time constraint or and directors I feel like are way more concerned about like the overall quality of producers or production companies as a whole. Money, money, money money. Money, money, money. Who's that? money, money, money. Nice. Nice nice on your part. Was that pretty good? Yeah, that's pretty good. Mm. Money, money, money was good. But yeah, like production company specifically like the one example I threw out, which what we talked about we've talked about before when we did the Dune episodes, David Lynch gets like you know, he he really wants to like make this like spectacle movie of Dune in like the eighties and The production company just kind of restricts him and like I don't know, they cut down the time and they took away like some things that he thought were like kinda key to the film and he you know, he doesn't even credit it. He doesn't even say that's one of his films, like he hates it. Yeah. He just like then that's what what can happen when like a a company or you kind of restrict that, like that that's what's gonna happen. Yeah. So Yeah, I mean they're plenty of times where producers or production can interfere, but like we talked about in our Moneyball episode, like Brad Pitt was one of the producers for Moneyball, and he was really vital for just making that film happen in general and was really invested in the story. and was concern more concerned with like Moneyball as a piece of art as opposed to like just a product. So yeah, we definitely you definitely see both sides. so Hitchcock and Selznick. so kind of like two big time Selznick like a huge producer back then and Hitchcock obviously crazy good director. they disagreed on one of Hitchcock's like most acclaimed films, which ended up winning Best Best Picture, which is called Rebecca. Hitchcock had like a bunch of shots that he had already planned and like he kinda had a vision for how the whole movie was gonna go. Like and then Sleesnick kinda came in and was like he wanted a lot more footage and like wanted different angles so that in post production he could like kinda make a decision or like I don't know, change things and Hitchcock was kinda like, What's the point? Like this is how it's gonna go. And they ended up going with Hitchcock's direction. and yeah, it won Best Picture, so it's kinda like Smart. Yeah, I mean if if it's that it's it's his movie. Listen to one of the goats. Yeah, exactly. but again he shows up again. he'd he produces Gone with the Wind. the S Sleznick, yeah. Yeah. So George Cooker, I think that's how you say his last name. but he was directing Gone of the Wind and him and Sleznick put in like years before the film, like casting writing or I don't know if they wrote it or is it like an old story or did is it original whatever I don't know. Yeah, I have no idea. But whatever. They put in years before the movie had even begun. And then Sleznick would like didn't like the way he was shooting it, so he just yanked him. He was like, You're done and then he got Victor Fleming, who was directing the Wizard of Oz at the time. Wow. Moved him and he's like, You're doing this now. Dang. And then he finished the film. I didn't know that. Yeah, which is crazy. Seems like it worked out well there. But the Cougar guy, the original director, like had to just like stay around. It was saying like he did like some other stuff, like just like just on set and stuff. Like, yeah. Dang. I don't know if you had to stay around, maybe that'd be brutal. They were probably like, We're gonna we're gonna have you do this. This is way more important, bro. You work on like the Yeah. Tie their shoes and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. but the other one I had was yeah, George Lucas and Gary Kurtz. Kurtz does does the first two original three and then he thought that George Lucas was like putting too much effort and like attention into like merchandise and like I don't know, like kinda like monetizing Star Wars. So then he leaves and then George Lucas makes the best Star Wars, Return of the Jedi. Bang. Shows them what's up. Just kidding. I don't know. Everyone hates Return of the Jedi. It's my favorite, but people don't hate it. People hate it. No. No, people hate it. I mean people, even Star Wars truthers, they're like, people hate every movie, but no, but Star Wars people hate Return of the Jedi. Alright. That's interesting. Yeah. Because it still has like a four on letterbox. it does it. I think. Really? That's crazy. A four? Yeah. Dang. But like Must be a good movie. A new A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are both like four point fours or something. Like just saying that in that voice. No, because of like of how high they are. Why are you saying it like it shouldn't be that? Maybe I don't think it should be that dang it's got a four point one. Return of the Jedi? See? That is insane. what the heck? I'm tripping. What does Empire have? Four point f Empire's got a four point four and New Hope has a three, that's my guess. A three? Four point three. Four point three. A new hope has. I think it's just called Star Wars on Letterboxd. Yeah, it is. Weird. four point two. And Empire's Empire's four point four, yeah. Empire's come on. Four point four. I don't know why people like Wow, there's some I see four and a half, four and a half, four and a half, four and a half, three Who gave it a three? Who gave it a three? Dang, he must that's weird. He must be a genius. Wow. And is able to form a looks like you're in the six percent of people, bro. Wow, that's weird. That is like the lowest like you know, there's the bars on it. Yeah. That's the lowest one. I mean there's obvious people that have rated it whatever who are just probably like Lord of the Rings truthers who are trying to get it down on here. Yeah. A hundred and fifty one thousand people were gave it a three. I'm one of Wow, dude, that's crazy. Yeah. If only I mean, if there's like a million people that gave it a five, that'd be weird. That'd be really weird. Is that is that how many people give it a five? Yeah, maybe. All right. All right. So Star Wars is mid, but there's some interesting production interesting production stories. Dang. I wonder what happened to that guy. I wonder like I mean he made the first two, so like Yeah, which I'm sure he's fine with, but 'cause those are the two best ones, but According according to the general population. Yeah, which is wrong all the time. Yeah, that's true. 'Cause digger. Yeah, 'cause digger. Yeah. No dude Star Wars is what are you talking about? Star Wars is peak. we should do we should we we should do should do what? Like a Star Wars Yeah. Bro what? I no seriously You hate it. But it forced me to watch them all. And then I'd force you to watch them all. You get to watch all, bro. It's a privilege. I need I need a frickin' reason to watch And then I re watch the first two. Give another shot. So you haven't seen Attack of the Clones? Phantom Menace Revenge of the Sith? Dude, and I really want to watch Andor. Andor looks peak. It looks I'm trying to think if there's like a sneaky order you could. I don't wanna I don't wanna do any sneaky orders. I wanna do release date. Okay. That's I I think I operate with like everything. I don't care chronological. Yeah, 'cause I think if you watched Rogue One before those, you'd be like Yeah. You'd puke or something. Dude, Rogue One looks peak. You you should watch that last. Ooh. You should watch that last. It yeah, it is a shame that. That they went for the cash grab? yes, but no that that I just that you just don't I thought it looked terrible. That is insane. It's a shame. You are insane. What do you mean it looks terrible? It's literally Dune. No, but Dune actually looks good because it's like modern. so you think just just the modern cameras, bro? You're just a you're just a I don't even know, dude. I just I don't think old movies look good because the camera's grainy. No seventies movies were the best. I'm not even gonna know I'm with you on some of those. I'm saying like sci-fi Star Wars like visual effects, it just looks so dated. And I just I didn't grow up watching them, so I'm just watching it with a Yeah, but that doesn't even matter. But it does to me when I'm watching it. What's like what do you mean it looks like one part, like what's not Getting there for you, like what in in specific like specifically what? the visuals. Like what though? I g I know the visuals, but what? It's not even like Okay. Okay, come on. You can't say what's his face. You know who it is. I know you know who it is. I don't even know who you're talking about. I actually don't. Is it Obi-Wan? Is it? Yeah, bro. That's the worst death scene I've ever seen. You asked and I'm answering. That's Okay, so what and I'm being honest. What yeah, what do you what do you Stop yelling? What Stop yell I don't like this game. I'm not yelling. All right. You know I hate that game. Proceed. No, I'm saying what you think the scene with Obi Wan and Darth Vader when they meet in the in the ship corridor? Like you think that's I can't even get that specific with You think when Obi Wan dies it sucks? It looks it looks terrible is what I think. Are you saying I think the pew pew pew looks terrible? I think Okay, but do you understand that that is like The reason you love Dune so much right now as a twenty-two-year-old man is because of that movie. No, it's because Star Wars is literally the Dune books. Okay, so that's why. It might be the books, but they made it into a movie. I know they made it into a movie. And the special effects is legit the reason you're gonna watch you're gonna go to the theater on December eighteenth. And it that might be true. No, that is true. I think Dune mogs Star Wars. I but it it only mogs Star Wars because Star Wars came first and paved the way for And Interstellar's only a movie because of two thousand one and I hate a two thousand one. Yeah, but you have to acknowledge its Yeah. It's legacy. Sure. I don't have to reflect that in my letterbox Star Raiding. That's true, yeah. That's yeah. It duh I mean That's good point, yeah. It might have reflected in my Star Rating a little bit. May the fourth we should do Yeah. I w I wanna give I for sure wanna give the first to another chance. All right, well then maybe after Century we'll do that. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta watch them I gotta watch all. You got even the doo doo. You got thirteen movies to watch. Light work. Give me four days. And and dude, you you should watch and you should watch the Clone Wars show. the John Watts one? Animated show. The John Watts. Wait, is that no you're skeleton crew too, but like the the have you seen Andor? No. Really? I dude, I just not I'm not a T V show guy. I'm not either. But Andor looks incredible. Yeah, I need to watch that. Did you watch Mando at all? Yeah, Mando, Boba Fett, Ahsoka. I'm not a T V guy, watches every other star. Yeah, I know. I I was really on except for like the best. I know. The Obi Wan one is so good. The best one the best one. I don't know. I don't know either. But Mando season one was really good. but yeah. I should I need to watch that. Maybe I will watch that. I don't know. I need to get on a T V show. I've just been watching Sad How I Met Your Mother TikTok edits. So Nice. Greatest show of all time. Really? I never I never Yeah, I never really watched I Met Your Mother. No. So good. The office. You love the office? Love it. You like friends? Not really. You like Parks and Wreck? Not really. How do you like the office? I don't know. I'm not gonna lie, like I watched The Office and then everyone's like, if you like The Office, you gotta like Parks and Wreck and then I watch it and I'm just like this isn't as good as The Office. Yeah, it's definitely not. No, but like it's just like I'm just going in there and I'm like, this better be as good as The Office. And then it's not, and then it's just like, what the heck? It really isn't. you can't The Office is like the only show for me in that kind of realm that I've actually like given a fair chance. How I met your mother is so good. It's unlike anything you've ever seen. I was a big Walking Dead guy when I was younger. I never watched that. It was like peak for like five seasons, four or five seasons. How about Prison Break? I'd never seen that. True Detective. John Burnthal though. Never seen have you seen that? True Detective? John Burnthal. Yeah, okay. I thought yeah. True Detective Season I thought you were saying after you said Prison Break, I thought you were saying Wait, is he not in Prison Break? No. Sorry. True Detective Season One. Yeah, Woody Harrelson. And McConaughey. You seen that? Yeah. Did you see did you watch season two? No. I heard it's not very good. Yeah, it's like completely different. Okay. So it's it's not Woody Harrelson. Yeah. It's like they do it differently. So I need to watch Dexter. That's what I need to watch. Addison's dad is a big Dexter guy. Yeah. He's got like all of them on D V D. No way. Yeah. I really need to watch that. I had some roommates watch it. Not roommates. College. College guys, yeah. The baseball team just watched it. What'd they think? I think they really liked it. They got through like four seasons and my I was just talking to my brother. He was saying better calls is better than bringing back. I've heard that from a lot of people actually. It's six season or Yeah, I think you're right. Which is crazy to me. What like how long it is? Yeah. Just 'cause that's like eleven seasons in one universe, you know. Dude, yeah. I mean like I know it's not Walter White and Jesse, but I've seen all the edits where he gets Odin Kirk gets nominated like every year. Yeah. And he's just like, Whatever, bro. And he's just getting s passed on, passed on, passed on. Dude. Yeah, see, that's the problem with me with T V shows, is that if it's like a long show, that's a big commitment. I know. That's why like Game of Thrones, I'm like, that's way too much time. Dude. I don't have that much I mean I do, but like I don't. But but it's like just knowing that it's like, okay. Yeah. I'm gonna start this today and I might not finish it in like even if I watch it at a good pace, it might take me like four months to finish. It's just like that's super daunting to think about. The problem is like if I start a show, like I'll legit rip like like I watch Peaky Blinders like in two weeks. The whole show. Like I'll watch like five episodes a day. Like I just have to like so like I d I can't watch Game of Thrones 'cause otherwise I'll just watch the whole thing. I was I was talking to Addison. I'm like, we need to watch a show. You should watch the last airbender. No. What do you mean? I okay, no no no. I maybe will watch that at some point, but there are just other shows that I want to watch. Like what? Yeah. Chernobyl, I really want to watch. It's a mini series. So it's one season. Whatever. I still really want to watch it. I really want to watch Mr. Robot with I just I just wanted to say Riz on Mad. Rami Malik. Thank you. Yes. that sh it looks really good. It's just it's not on anything right now. It like comes on Netflix for like a month and it's on movie year dot L O L. Yeah. That's true. I here's a show that you should watch. Nirvana to ban the show. Yes, that's true. That's a good point. That they're like literally like fifteen minutes. I know. And they're all so good. and they're on a website. What else do I want to watch? I really want to watch Dark. It's a German show. And me and Addison actually started it, but it was a little too dark? Literally. Yeah. But like she like liked it, but It's like a kid goes missing and they think they think he's like in a cave or something and the cave's like supernatural and some lady parks a car over a hole in the ground. Yeah. And then Detective Loki like walks by and yeah. Then there's like a whistling and if you know you know. We won't say anything else. Have you seen the clip of there's like this I don't know. It's like it's Jonah Hill and he's like it's in This is the end. And he's like, Your references are crazy, bro. Everyone knows that. yeah. That's from This is the end. That's from the movie I just watched. really? I didn't know that and I was watching that's hilarious. I can't remember Dang, that's a that's another reference. I can't remember what he references. But it's just hilarious. Dude, your references are insane, bro. They're out of control. Everyone knows that. Yeah, dude, I've literally like I've seen that. Dude, yeah, that movie's so funny. There's some other shows. me and Addison are watching Arcane. For some reason we never finished it. It's like peak animation. It's like Spider-Verse type stuff. but you won't watch The Last Airbender. No, no, no, no. I'm saying I will at some point. I just know that there are other shows that I've been wanting to watch. I really want to watch Silo. It's on Apple TV, kind of like dystopian. yeah. I was talking about I got some buddies that have seen it that are like it's really good. I feel like you guys would like The Last Airbender. I feel like I probably would too. Yeah. Invincible. Invincible. I need to watch Invincible. Bad. What else? Yeah, there's a I don't know. I mean there's there's that's the thing is there's so much it's just movies. Yeah. But movies it's like, all right, I can check something off in one day. And it's just true. It's just movies are just better. Movies are better. I'm just kidding. It's not even close. Like Yeah, you could watch a bad movie. But for me, like a peak movie is better than a peak show. One thousand percent. Like not even close. Yeah. Sorry, sorry, guys. So well like I don't if you're gonna watch a show like with Addison. yeah, she probably she would like it. She wouldn't. But she would but Last Airbender is like Lodian. Maybe I'll watch the night movie. Yeah, good idea. You would love it. It's so good. It's really good. It's like the worst movie ever. I think it has like really good ratings. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just make sure to check it out. All right. What do you do you have another story? Yeah, here's my other story. M9 Shamalan should go to jail, bro. No, dude. He's a good director. Stop hating on him. Yeah, good director. Bro, the sixth cents, the village, signs. They all get canceled out. No. With one breakable movie. No. Just forget he said the only reason he did it was because his kids liked the show. Because it's a cash grab. And they thought it was cool. Just say you're just say you want a cash grab. Bro, every once in a while they gotta do that. Cause when you make a peak movie like The Village and it makes no money, then you gotta go do the last airbender. What? Last airbender? On Letterboxd? Yeah, take a guess. 1.9? Dang, okay, you're actually a lot 1.2. my gosh. That's really good, actually. Dude, that is insane. That's a really good score. I haven't logged it, but I'll I should give it a zero. I'm just gonna log it a five for fun. Just without just without even watching it. I do have another story. I'm gonna make what we were just saying. I'm make a bunch of different accounts. And log Star Wars at a w at a half star. I'm gonna do that. Yeah, on that account I'm gonna log the Star Wars at a half star. Now I'm gonna log Knight's last airbender as a five. That's a good idea, honestly. You should just make an account that's just a rating inflation. Yeah. I'm just gonna raid Rating bomb all the movies that deserve lower ratings. What are the awards called? The Roxy? Is that what you say? The Razzies. Razzies. Yeah. Do the opposite. Yes. Francis Ford Coppola and Gordon Willis on The Godfather. they just like see it kind of differently and then they end up this is Gordon Willis is a cinematographer. He does like a lot of movies around that time and he's like kinda he wants to shoot The Godfather as kinda like this forties type movie, like shadowy and like kinda noir like and Francis Ford kinda says like it's supposed to be more modern and like like Scarface-ish kinda even though Scarface wasn't out yet, but like No, he wanted it to be like Scarface. Yeah, 'cause he knew. Yeah. but That's true. He wanted it to be Yeah, like a movie that wasn't He wanted it to be like Goodfellas. Yeah. He wanted it to be like Like heat. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's what he was thinking. Yeah. for sure. And then they end up this dude, Gorin Willis, gets the nickname the Prince of Darkness. That's kind of tough. Because of like the his use of shadows and stuff. Yeah. And like that becomes like an iconic like cinematography style, like So Francis Ford wanted it didn't want it. yeah, no, he he just wanted it to be like less like that. Yeah. Not like completely And what ended up happening? Then they they go with they kind of they go with the Prince of Darkness. They a little bit, but like they do, like they get in huge arguments and Willis like storms offset a couple of times, but then like Coppola like hires him back. So like Is he related to Bruce Willis? Yeah. It's his dad. Amy Hall, all the President's Men. Have you seen that? I haven't. I really want to watch it. Yeah. I feel like there's another one. It's Robert Redford, right? Yeah. Redford and I can't remember. Someone else. Dustin Hoffman, I think. I think. Francis Ford Coppola's newest movie Megalopolis from like twenty twenty four or something Child yeah yeah and Adam Driver yeah I really want to see it I want to see it too I saw you literally like you I don't think you can watch it anywhere because it didn't get picked up by anyone really because it's I know a place it did it did so bad and it was completely self financed dang I remember He like sold like his watches and like all the stuff. This dude doesn't have enough money. And he like Like it was like a almost two hundred million dollar budget or something and literally made like no money. Why would he do that? 'Cause he just really wanted to make this movie. Okay. Any production company would be like yes. No, I I mean they I don't know. No one wanted this movie. It was so futuristic. Clips of like Shiloh Buff and him like arguing and he says like he was the w the hardest one to work with. He's like France Ford Coppola's like, You're the hardest person I had to work with. And then like Charlotte Buffs in an interview is like, Yeah, I didn't show up like eighty pounds overweight in the jungle. 'Cause like Brando like shows up like yeah for Apocalypse now. Yeah and he just like does whatever he wants. Like Charlotte Buffs just like there's like clips of him like just like swearing at each other. Like yeah. Have you seen Apocalypse Now? No. I haven't either. I really gotta watch that. We gotta watch a lot of I know I'm I I think the week after this week. Yeah. But I really tap into the classics. The classics, but also the The Last Crusade has just been calling my name, bro. my gosh. I've been just been seeing the clip of have you seen it? Yeah. Never mind. A long time ago. A very long time ago. We gotta do like a Of him and his dad? Is that the clip you're talking about? Yeah. Okay. I know like I know that that is in the movie. Okay. Well I'm not even gonna otherwise I know nothing else. Yeah. we gotta do like a Spielberg or Yeah, we actually do gotta do a Spielberg because I was watching Spielberg movies. Indiana Jones. When Disclosure Day when yeah, when Disclosure Day came out and then I did a bunch of Nolan prep and then I tried to get back. I'm like, okay, I'll just watch all Spielbergs after the Odyssey and then it just then we started a lot of movies. Then we started the stupid podcast. Stupid just had to prep and Have no free time now. John Williams again the goat. Here's what here's John Williams. Here's Han Zimmer. Wow. And here's me curb stomping him. Wow, that's actually crazy. It's just not though. That is crazy. It just isn't. It is, bro. I think I'm any movie ever right now. Go. No, no, no. No, hold on. Name a movie. Name a movie? Any interstellar. John Williams. He doesn't, bro. I'm just kidding. No, so like John Williams, I feel like has like the iconography to all of his scores. Like what a word, bro. What is that? Come on, man. I can't even Yeah. Come on. Wow. Is that a word? Is that a real word? It's a real word. Are you serious? Yes. Like he's got Your words are out of control. He's got the recognition everyone knows that. He's got the recognizable Ones like like Indiana Jones, like everyone knows that one. Everyone knows Star Wars, everyone knows Harry Potter, yeah. Everyone like everyone knows them. But I just everyone knows Jurassic Park. Yeah. Home Alone. Yeah, Jaws. Yes saving Private Ryan. I actually don't know that one. E. T. Yes. Superman. I didn't know that one. That's just a lie. No, I'm serious. If you heard that you'd be like, okay, that's super. Or I'd be like, it's Star Wars 'cause it sounds the same. Okay. Okay. G sorry, I'm interrupting you. Yeah. Hans Zimmer though, like I just I just think his scores are better. That's all. Like Interstellar, Inception, the Dune movies, Kung Fu Panda, Lion King. Bro. Han Zimmer well I because subjective opinion. I know. Does Han Zimmer does he compose the music? Yeah. And conducts it? what do you like orchestr like the orchestra? Does he conduct it? Yeah. No, because someone else conduct it? Well, it's not like just like an orc like right. I don't know. That's why that's why I like John Williams. And he played and he plays the piano and the guitar and like and some of his songs. I love John Williams because it's an it's an orchestra. It's It's a live orchestra. And Hans Zimmer has a live orchestra too, but he has other stuff too. Yeah. I just yeah. Yeah, I mean I I Two goats. I know that the majority of people say John Williams is goat and Maybe John Williams is the greatest of all time, but Hans Zimmer's my favorite. John Williams is Michael Jordan. So LeBron's my goat. really? Yeah. Never mind then. Wow. We might have to do a LeBron James, Michael Jordan podcast. Let's do it. And then our draft could be movies at LeBron Yeah, movies. you get train wreck. It's the new space jam. And I'll take old space jam and air. Even though air is not that good. What it's about. Michael Jordan's not even in it. I know. I'm trying to think of Ben Affleck, Matt Damon. No, I know. I I know. What are you trying to think of? I'm trying to think of old Lebr LeBron movies? Yeah. Like if they're Space Jam. There's one where like there's one like not too long ago where like people have a party at his house, right? Or is that a Tom Brady? No, it's it's a LeBron movie. It's like these guys like house it for or something. Is like he's in it? I don't know if he's in it. I know he's in a train or like it's a movie about it's a movie about. I don't know if he's in it. Okay. Let me see if he has any acting credits. 'Cause I know he's in the train wreck. Train wreck is a like a movie? Yeah, it's like him and Think that's what it's called. It's like him and Bill Hader and he like plays himself. It's like it'd be pretty sweet to be Bill Hader and say that he acted alongside LeBron. he's he's in one of my favorites, The Downfall of Diddy. Even though that's probably him saying ain't no party like a Diddy party on Instagram Live. That's probably what it is. It's probably why they have to credit him. yeah, it's called Train Wreck twenty three. Nice. I'll add that to the watch list. Small foot? It's just animated about like the abominable. here it is. House party. He's in it. twenty twenty three. Train wreck. it's a Judd Apatown movie. actually? Yeah. that Train Wreck is. Maybe it's a banger. Got a two point seven. never mind. Could be a banger low key. Could be a banger low key. House party. Well, Bron James is the fourth build actor on this. Well yeah. It's got a two point four house party. Nice. Alright. Anything else on directors, producers, cinematographers? Shout out Hoyta van Hoyta. Yeah, cinematographers. Hoyta van Hoytema. Hoytema. Is Hoyt Hoy tema Hoyta van Hoytema? I got it. Hoyt a Van Hoytema. I call him Hoyt. Hoyt. Hoyt the goat. All his boys call him Hoyt. Hoyt the goat, dude. Roger Deacons, Emmanuel Lebeski, aka Chevo. That's what people call him. Really? His boys. Chevo, yeah. So Chivo, shout out Cheevo. Shout out to the Prince of Darkness. Yeah, shout out to the Prince of Darkness. I've seen zero of your movies. I've seen Yeah. who else? Who does does Hoito do all of Nolan? No, he I think he starts with Interstellar maybe. It's a pretty decent one to start with. Or maybe he does maybe he does Dark Knight Rises too. That's low key like a really sick shot movie. It is. It's a messy movie, but No, no, no. He doesn't do the Dark Knight Rises. He does Dunkirk, Tenant. Wally fist p fister pfister. Got it. PF. Okay. Pff Hister. He does the Dark Knight Inception Memento. Some random movie about magicians. Batman begins. Dark Knight Rides. Hey the he does not random. He does Moneyball. Dang. What's that random movie about magicians? Sounds good. Let me click on it. Sounds good. What's it got? A four point nine? no, it's actually got a four wait, it's actually got a two point three. No, no, no. What does it actually have? Yes. be way high. I would say it's got a four. It's got a four point three. Woo. That's sure it does. That I think that's like the second high no. Probably the fourth fifth highest Nolan. I don't know. That's higher than I thought. Wait four point three? Yeah. Later Oppenheimer. Huh? Later Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer's four point two. Really? Yeah. So Dark Knight, the Odyssey. Yeah, Odyssey's four point three. the Odyssey is two? Yeah. Interstellar's four five. So Interstellar Dark Knight and then Prestige slash Odyssey. Then tenants of four point tenants of three point four. I think. It's a five? Dude, it's gone up. Is it actually? Yeah. Yeah, three point five. Let's go. The tenant reclamation is so strong, bro. Three point eight for done. Dude, tenant is gonna be like digger. That's a great example. Did it flop at the box office? Yeah. Tenant did? I don't know. Probably not. I don't think it did well. Yeah. I don't think it I don't think it like lost money or I don't know. It was right after COVID though, and it was a big budget. Big budget for what, dude? Big budget for a peak movie. For a peak original movie that was freaking peak. Big butt you don't even need a big budget 'cause you can just shoot all the stuff and just do it backwards. So you can actually just save half your money. Which is actually really smart. Tenet it gross three hundred and seventy six million dollars. On a 200 five million dollar budget. Okay. So big budget. Kinda it did all it did alright. Yeah, it's decent. It made a little bit of money. Seriously. Cause one and a half gets you to three hundred. So it made it made it did all right, but that's one of the lower Nolan ones, I think. It also came out right after COVID, so that's probably part of it. Yeah. Yeah, wow, we really be yapping on this, John though. Ain't that the truth? in general, film director controls creative vision and artistic execution, makes decisions about performances, visual storytelling, and overall tone. It guides the cast and crew toward a unified creative goal. Works with actors, cinematographers, production designers, and editors. Really just works with everyone, pretty much. Producer. Handles business and logistics, secures financing, manages budget, oversees schedule, and navigates legal issues, makes business decisions, enabling the creative work. And cinematographers, aka directors of photography, executes the visual language through camera and lighting, collaborates closely with the director on shot composition, camera movement, and lighting mood. But the director makes final creative calls. A great director. Cinematography partnership is essential. Andrew, anything you want to add to this conversation? Absolutely zero. Nothing. All right. So that is all for episode 22. Our director, cinematographer, producer, deep dive. Yap Sash. Yap Sash about random stuff. next episode, we got a really good short episode for you guys. just the best idea I've ever So last night we didn't know we were doing for the short episode. No, I don't. I'm telling the story. Last night. This is all false. We're on the we're on the horn. We didn't know what to do for a short episode. I'm like, yo, I I got an idea. Andrew's like, yo, yo, what's up? And I'm like, so we just watched Moneyball. We kind of dabbled in Digger a little bit. Like maybe we do like a Brad Pitt. Tom Cruise draft. And Andrew goes that is not true. Sure. I'm just like, okay, so you hate it. That is not true. That's true. I said, yeah, let's do it. Truth comes out. I legit said yeah. I think, yeah, let's do it. Truth comes out. So Andrew hated that idea. No, I love it. But I think it's a great idea. I think the fans are gonna love it. So let's prove Andrew wrong and make episode twenty three the most watched episode of the Podsey. Twenty three for LeBron James. Thanks for checking into episode twenty two. See you guys later. See ya.