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Natalee Holloway's Suspected Killer in U.S. Court Pleads Not Guilty · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:15
Speaker 2: The name Natalie Holloway will never be forgotten. The American
0:21
Speaker 2: Beauty All, a student set to go to college, goes
0:27
Speaker 2: on her high school senior trip and is never seen
0:31
Speaker 2: alive again. In the Last Days, a development in the
0:35
Speaker 2: state's case against Yorn Vanderslout. I'mancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
0:41
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Foxination in
0:43
Speaker 2: series sexe one eleven. In the Last Days, Yorn Vanderslut,
0:49
Speaker 2: the judge's son, the main suspect in the disappearance and
0:52
Speaker 2: murder of Natalie Holloway, pleads not guilty to federal charges.
0:59
Speaker 2: The charge is he's facing right now after his highly
1:03
Speaker 2: contentious and complicated extradition to the US. Vanderslut has pled
1:08
Speaker 2: not guilty to one count of extortion and one count
1:12
Speaker 2: of wire fraud against Natalie's mother, Beth Holloway. The arrangment
1:18
Speaker 2: took place at eleven AM at Hugo L. Bly US
1:21
Speaker 2: Courthouse in Alabama. Vanderslute arrived just before.
1:25
Speaker 1: Eight a m.
1:26
Speaker 2: For his arrayment. The Dutch native the judges so is
1:30
Speaker 2: escort to wearing handcuffs, a white Michael Jordan T shirt
1:35
Speaker 2: and jeans. Why is he not in a prison jumpsuit?
1:40
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friends at NBC.
1:43
Speaker 3: Jord Vanderslout the chief suspect in not Onie Holloway's disappearance
1:46
Speaker 3: in a T shirt, jeans and handcuffs, pleading not guilty
1:49
Speaker 3: to extortion in wire fraud charges, each charge carrying a
1:53
Speaker 3: twenty year sentence if he's convicted. The family showing up
1:56
Speaker 3: in court to see vander Slute face to face. Natalie's
1:59
Speaker 3: mother Beth sat stoically a few rose back, staring occasionally
2:03
Speaker 3: at vander Slute roughly ten feet away. She's never given
2:06
Speaker 3: up hope in the search for justice, telling NBC News
2:08
Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, what I.
2:10
Speaker 4: Care about is information as to what happened to Natalie.
2:12
Speaker 2: Natalie's the mother of Beth, her father Dave, and brother
2:15
Speaker 2: Matt sat just feet away from the suspect. Beth's determined
2:21
Speaker 2: expression never flinched as she watched vander Slute shuffle into
2:29
Speaker 2: the courtroom.
2:30
Speaker 1: How did the whole thing start?
2:33
Speaker 2: Natalie and Holloway last scene driving away from a local nightclubs.
2:37
Speaker 1: She was just away on her high school senior trip.
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Speaker 5: She has disappeared three guys that escorted Natalie from a
2:44
Speaker 5: restaurant bar Carlos and Charlie's her last night there on
2:48
Speaker 5: a room, but before she was supposed to leave the
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Speaker 5: next morning.
2:50
Speaker 1: These are the guys she.
2:51
Speaker 2: Was last seen with this statement that the boy vander
2:55
Speaker 2: Slut says, I took her down to the beach.
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Speaker 1: It was around two am and.
3:00
Speaker 2: She wanted to stay there, so I left her there alone.
3:03
Speaker 2: This girl, a teen girl, beautiful, brilliant. You know, everyone
3:09
Speaker 2: still has in their mind the picture of her out
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Speaker 2: on a football feel and her drill outfit doing a
3:16
Speaker 2: dance routine with all of her friends. Her body never recovered,
3:21
Speaker 2: her whereabouts never known to wc IVY, ABC four Charleston
3:28
Speaker 2: reporter Anne Emerson, and the pain of Natalie's disappearance never
3:34
Speaker 2: goes away. And if anyone is expecting your Vanderslalut, a
3:38
Speaker 2: two time killer, the judge's son who got special treatment
3:43
Speaker 2: in Aruba because his dad's judge, to ever tell what
3:46
Speaker 2: happened to Natalie, that ain't gonna happen, Anne Emerson.
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Speaker 4: Nancy, this case has just transfixed America, the media. Anyone
3:55
Speaker 4: who could relate to this. It was the idea of
3:59
Speaker 4: losing your on a senior trip as they're just about
4:02
Speaker 4: to embark on their whole life. It was just it
4:05
Speaker 4: was more than anyone in America could even bear at
4:08
Speaker 4: the time, and we all felt like we were part
4:10
Speaker 4: of the parents search for this child. It was unbelievable
4:16
Speaker 4: that just one every step they took trying to get
4:20
Speaker 4: this investigation underway, it was on some level impeded, as
4:24
Speaker 4: you said, because he had special privileges on the island.
4:27
Speaker 6: And confusing, and it was it was just like unwrapping
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Speaker 6: this really really complicated package, uh, that we're still unpacking.
4:38
Speaker 2: For those of you that recall the disappearance on Natalie Holloway,
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Speaker 2: the America Girl Austraight, a's student athlete set to go
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Speaker 2: to college to study pre med goes missing on our
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Speaker 2: high school senior trip that was heavily chaper Take a
4:53
Speaker 2: listen to our friend Rick Sanchez.
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Speaker 7: Natalie, you can reach me on your cell phone.
4:56
Speaker 8: I have it and it's set up for international use
4:58
Speaker 8: now and I will stay here until I'll find you.
5:00
Speaker 1: Natalie.
5:01
Speaker 9: A mother's desperate plea for her missing daughter. Natalie Holloway
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Speaker 9: was among more than one hundred seniors on a graduation
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Speaker 9: trip to Aruba.
5:08
Speaker 10: They're just typical high school girls out on the beach,
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Speaker 10: on the beach having a good time on their senior trip.
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Speaker 10: There's nothing unusual. Thousands and thousands of kids go on
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Speaker 10: senior trips every summer, and they should. I mean, these
5:20
Speaker 10: kids who are growing up.
5:22
Speaker 9: Marcia Twitty is Natalie's aunt. She says, nobody seemed to
5:25
Speaker 9: notice that when the friends left the nightclub, Natalie wasn't
5:29
Speaker 9: with them.
5:30
Speaker 10: Everybody saw everybody had each other because there's a bunch
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Speaker 10: of them, a bunch she wasn't, you know, twenty or so.
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Speaker 10: There's a whole bunch of kids, and they all kind of,
5:39
Speaker 10: you know, went in with the bed that night.
5:41
Speaker 9: It wasn't until people started waking up Monday morning ready
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Speaker 9: to return to Birmingham that they realized she was missing.
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Speaker 2: How did Natalie Holloway seemingly slip through everyone's fingers? Take
5:54
Speaker 2: a listen to her friend Francis.
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Speaker 9: Natalie's friend Francis was staying in an adjacent room.
6:01
Speaker 1: What did you feel like Monday.
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Speaker 9: Morning when you guys were all getting ready to go
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Speaker 9: and you realized that she wasn't around.
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Speaker 7: We immediately knew something was wrong because she was her
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Speaker 7: roommates knocked on my door and said that they didn't
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Speaker 7: know where she was. We went straight to the chaperones
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Speaker 7: and they immediately started working on it.
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Speaker 9: They suspected Natalie was still on the island because in
6:22
Speaker 9: her room they found her luggage right, found her passport right,
6:27
Speaker 9: but no Natalie Ruben. Authorities have been joined by the
6:31
Speaker 9: FBI in the search. So far, there has been little
6:34
Speaker 9: to go on. Three A Reubens students did tell investigators, though,
6:39
Speaker 9: that they dropped Natalie off that night at her hotel.
6:42
Speaker 9: But something about that story doesn't sit right with Natalie's aunt.
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Speaker 2: Well, it certainly didn't sit right, and that story quickly changed.
6:51
Speaker 2: Joining me, ro ould Manchanda Attorney, international law expert, author
6:55
Speaker 2: of a book series, Deep State Defector Roll.
7:00
Speaker 1: Thank you again for being with us. Explain to me
7:03
Speaker 1: the legal.
7:03
Speaker 2: Mechanics about how jord vanderslou can ever be brought to
7:08
Speaker 2: justice for Natalie's murder.
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Speaker 11: In this case was a hallmark case in the sense
7:12
Speaker 11: of international law, and it kind of held up foreign
7:15
Speaker 11: investigatory bodies to a scrutiny the.
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Speaker 12: Standard maintained by the US.
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Speaker 11: The FBI, for example, Secret Service had gotten involved because
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Speaker 11: they were so frustrated with the relative slowness and laxity
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Speaker 11: of the local Uruban investigation. And I really believe in
7:32
Speaker 11: retrospect hindsight that all the stuff that happened the Peruvian angle,
7:36
Speaker 11: you know, all these other issues really are sort of
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Speaker 11: an offshoot of the you know, really lack of ability
7:42
Speaker 11: in the first forty eight as they would say, to
7:44
Speaker 11: really get a handle on this case. It seemed to
7:46
Speaker 11: me that just you know, like you said, there was
7:48
Speaker 11: issues about you know, the judge.
7:49
Speaker 13: Being his father.
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Speaker 11: There was corruption issues, maybe assistants by local police departments
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Speaker 11: or investigatory bodies, but this case really just ran away
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Speaker 11: from the local investigations. And now look at where we are,
8:01
Speaker 11: and with this extortion money which he you know, he
8:03
Speaker 11: received the money and then now spending it, that would
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Speaker 11: that would be enough for a personal and subject matter jurisdiction.
8:11
Speaker 2: We just heard Rahulman Chanda state that your van Heersleute
8:15
Speaker 2: got an extortion money. What's he talking about, Ann Emerson?
8:18
Speaker 14: The extortion money.
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Speaker 4: Well, what happened was he had contacted a lawyer from
8:24
Speaker 4: Best Holloway Twitty. She was remarried, and Best Twitty would
8:28
Speaker 4: had contacted a lawyer on her side and had said
8:32
Speaker 4: that he had information. Now this is when he was
8:34
Speaker 4: in Aruba and when he wanted to he wanted to
8:39
Speaker 4: give them the where their daughter's remains were. He said
8:44
Speaker 4: he knew where her remains were, and for two hundred
8:46
Speaker 4: and fifty thousand dollars that information could be theirs.
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Speaker 6: But I don't think at any point the mother.
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Speaker 14: Was looking to get some.
8:56
Speaker 4: To get the truth out of him, because he had
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Speaker 4: been so untruthful all of these years.
9:00
Speaker 14: It was just lie after lie. This was about actually.
9:03
Speaker 4: Trying to catch your Vanderslute and get hit and bring
9:07
Speaker 4: him to justice. And this this extortion plan was Walks
9:12
Speaker 4: just going all the way with the FBI trying to
9:15
Speaker 4: make sure that they got him. Now we're talking about
9:17
Speaker 4: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. She actually did a
9:19
Speaker 4: test about the wire that he asked for.
9:22
Speaker 14: To transfer money, and she spent out.
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Speaker 4: She she just sent one hundred dollars to see if
9:27
Speaker 4: it actually worked, and it did, and that sort of
9:30
Speaker 4: that was the catalyst to kind of go into this
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Speaker 4: whole wire fraud extortion scheme and a sting with the FBI.
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Speaker 4: They set it up. They got ten thousand dollars to
9:39
Speaker 4: your vander Slut. They were transferring fifteen thousand dollars and
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Speaker 4: that was the deal, twenty five thousand dollars ahead of time.
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Speaker 4: Somehow Vanderslute gets the money and escapes Aruba with Bes's money.
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Speaker 2: Steven Lampley Rollman Shanda said something really important. He said
10:00
Speaker 2: a lot of important things, but he also said the
10:03
Speaker 2: case was screwed up with Natalie in the first forty eight.
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Speaker 2: Explain what Ralman Shanda, who's an international law expert, was
10:09
Speaker 2: talking about as.
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Speaker 8: What you're talking about the first forty eight that is
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Speaker 8: the most important time frame for any investigation. It's sort
10:18
Speaker 8: of like the golden hour EMTs. It's just the time
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Speaker 8: frame that we want to be fully active. We want
10:26
Speaker 8: to pull out all the resources and we want to
10:28
Speaker 8: try to find everything we can in the first forty
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Speaker 8: eight hours, because it's just the matter of life. After
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Speaker 8: forty eight hours, the propenpathy to solve the crime lessons
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Speaker 8: with every hour thereafter.
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Speaker 2: Prime stories with me, Grace. The hearing that just went
11:03
Speaker 2: down at the Hugo L. Black Us Courthouse only lasted
11:08
Speaker 2: a little under five minutes. At the very beginning, Van
11:11
Speaker 2: der Slute turned down the services of a Dutch translator, bragging,
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Speaker 2: my English is actually pretty perfect UK.
11:19
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at ABC.
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Speaker 15: So thirty five year old pleaded not guilty to those
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Speaker 15: extortion and wire fraud charges. Van der Slult started out
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Speaker 15: by choosing not to use an interpreter in court, telling
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Speaker 15: the judge that his English is perfect and that he
11:33
Speaker 15: didn't need one. Right after the three minute arrayment, I
11:35
Speaker 15: caught up with the Hallway spokesperson. He told me that
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Speaker 15: she's relieved that Van der slot is here in the
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Speaker 15: US after such a long process.
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Speaker 2: Judge Gray Bowden asked vander Slut if he understood all
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Speaker 2: of his constitutional rights and the extortion and wire charges
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Speaker 2: against him. Van der Slute responded yes, sir each time. Well,
11:54
Speaker 2: unlike Brian Cooburger, he did plead not guilty. Remember Coburger
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Speaker 2: just stood there and remained silent. The prosecution asked that
12:03
Speaker 2: Vandersloot stay in US custody because of the treaty it
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Speaker 2: has with Peru, where he still faces the rest of
12:10
Speaker 2: his sentence and the murder of Stephanie Tossiana Flores. He
12:14
Speaker 2: was being held at the Hoover City Jail, but was
12:17
Speaker 2: moved to the Shelby County Jail after the arraignment. How
12:22
Speaker 2: did we end up here? Because he was a judge's
12:26
Speaker 2: son there in Aruba, he slipped through the fingers of
12:29
Speaker 2: Lady Justice and he ended up murdering five years to
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Speaker 2: the day, Stephanie Tossiana Flores, same modus operandi, method of operation.
12:41
Speaker 2: Art Harris, meet Sarretta Casino. She's a young girl. Now
12:45
Speaker 2: she's dead. I don't want it to happen again.
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Speaker 16: Art Matthew. Everyone knew on Aruba that this was his
12:50
Speaker 16: mo that he prayed on young women the night before
12:54
Speaker 16: they were just to come back to the US if
12:57
Speaker 16: they were on one of these trips. And so he
13:00
Speaker 16: is he is not he was. He was more of
13:03
Speaker 16: a danger in Aruba, well than than I suppose he
13:06
Speaker 16: was in Peru, except to kill the bow and girl
13:09
Speaker 16: as well. But he is he is, you know, just
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Speaker 16: he is just beyond the pale of pure He is
13:17
Speaker 16: pure evil.
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Speaker 2: So he is pure evil, and I don't know how
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Speaker 2: he's well, actually, I.
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Speaker 1: Think you're right.
13:24
Speaker 2: I started to disagree with you, but I think he
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Speaker 2: was more dangerous in Aruba because he had free reign
13:30
Speaker 2: in the protection of his father, the judge and the
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Speaker 2: protection of the police there.
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Speaker 1: They did, remember Cheryl McCollum.
13:38
Speaker 2: Guys with me, Cheryl McCollum, she and I, along with
13:42
Speaker 2: Natalie's mom, went to Aruba to read trace the steps
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Speaker 2: as we know them, to see if we could dig
13:48
Speaker 2: up any information, and we did. Cheryl McCollum, director of
13:53
Speaker 2: the Cold Case Research Institute and star of.
13:56
Speaker 1: A hit podcast, Zone seven.
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Speaker 2: Cheryl, he has a protection on only of his father,
14:03
Speaker 2: but of the police in Aruba, and that bore out
14:07
Speaker 2: with what Beth told us about how they treated.
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Speaker 1: Her and would not help her in any way.
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Speaker 2: She's alone in a foreign country trying to find her
14:17
Speaker 2: daughter with no help from the police, and then they
14:19
Speaker 2: tried to arrest us. I mean, long story short, they
14:23
Speaker 2: did nothing. So he did have it a more of
14:26
Speaker 2: a free reign and Aruba to pray on young women.
14:30
Speaker 14: He had free reign and he had help. He had
14:33
Speaker 14: associates that would drive him. We were told when we
14:37
Speaker 14: were there that there were bartenders that would slip through
14:40
Speaker 14: hypnol to victims.
14:42
Speaker 12: We were told.
14:42
Speaker 14: That, and then when we were there, not only did
14:45
Speaker 14: they try to arrest us, but they followed us around
14:49
Speaker 14: everywhere we went, and then to me. The most shocking
14:52
Speaker 14: thing was when we went across the street all the
14:56
Speaker 14: businesses and one by one they slammed the doors, lost
15:00
Speaker 14: them in terms of open tign to close. They wouldn't
15:05
Speaker 14: even let us in a store to get a bottle
15:08
Speaker 14: of water.
15:09
Speaker 2: Nobody wants the truth about Natalie to be found on
15:13
Speaker 2: that island, and that is why it is so imperative
15:17
Speaker 2: that we get him here.
15:20
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at NBC.
15:21
Speaker 17: Authorities may take the main suspect in the disappearance of
15:25
Speaker 17: Natalie Holloway to the US in just a matter of days.
15:28
Speaker 17: You're on Vendor Slut was moved on Saturday from one
15:31
Speaker 17: Peruvian prison to another, all in preparation for his extradition
15:35
Speaker 17: to the United States to face charges of extortion.
15:38
Speaker 1: Holloway, you will remember, vanished while.
15:41
Speaker 17: She was on vacation in Aruba in two thousand and five.
15:44
Speaker 1: Her body never was found.
15:46
Speaker 2: But interesting, he is not your inventor. Sluite is not
15:49
Speaker 2: being brought to the US even as we speak because
15:53
Speaker 2: of Natalie's murder. He's here on entirely different charges. Take
15:59
Speaker 2: us into O'Brien.
16:01
Speaker 18: Prosecutors alleged Vander Sloop promised Holloway's parents, he divulged the
16:05
Speaker 18: location of her body and give them details about the
16:08
Speaker 18: manner of her death, allegedly asking to be paid two
16:12
Speaker 18: hundred and fifty thousand dollars with twenty five thousand up front.
16:15
Speaker 18: He's then accused of giving information that was worthless. Vanishing
16:19
Speaker 18: in Aruba during a graduation trip, Eighteen year old Natalie
16:22
Speaker 18: Holloway's body has never been found. She was officially declared
16:26
Speaker 18: dead by a judge in twenty twelve. Vander Sloop was
16:29
Speaker 18: one of the last people to see her alive.
16:32
Speaker 2: Straight out to doctor Chloe Carmichael, joining us clinical psychologist,
16:38
Speaker 2: author of Nervous Energy, Harnessed the Power of Your Anxiety,
16:42
Speaker 2: and you can find her at doctor Chloe dot com.
16:44
Speaker 1: Doctor Chloe, thank you for being with us. So here's a.
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Speaker 2: Guy that I firmly believe killed Natalie Holloway, a teen girl, straight.
16:54
Speaker 1: A student set to go to college in.
16:56
Speaker 2: Pre mad I don't care how happened, but he did it.
17:02
Speaker 2: He's given various accounts of how Natalie died over the years.
17:07
Speaker 2: They're all inconsistent with each other, and all of them
17:11
Speaker 2: amount to, if not murder, one premeditated murder. They amount
17:16
Speaker 2: to felony murder, a death occurring in the commission of
17:20
Speaker 2: a felony, that being raped, that being sodomy, that being kidnapped,
17:25
Speaker 2: false imprisonment, aggravators. So it could be a number of
17:28
Speaker 2: various felonies and a death occurred during the felony, which
17:32
Speaker 2: equals felony murder no doubt.
17:34
Speaker 1: In my mind. So we've got a guy who I.
17:37
Speaker 2: Believe murdered this teen girl now trying to squeeze two
17:43
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars out of the victim's mother.
17:48
Speaker 1: What does that tell you, doctor Chloe.
17:51
Speaker 19: So Ceo, Pass my goodness, Nancy, I think you hit
17:54
Speaker 19: the nail on the head. And honestly, I'm inclined to
17:57
Speaker 19: agree with your feeling that he appears likely to have
18:01
Speaker 19: done this murder and then to essentially toy with the
18:05
Speaker 19: family by trying to extort them for money.
18:10
Speaker 1: I'm glad that.
18:11
Speaker 20: They are extra dating him back so that the family
18:14
Speaker 20: can at least begin to have some shred of accountability
18:18
Speaker 20: with what appears to just be the really vicious sociopath.
18:22
Speaker 2: And you know, Matthew Mangino joining me, high profio lawyer,
18:26
Speaker 2: joining us out of lawrence County, author of the Executioner's Toll,
18:30
Speaker 2: and you can find a Mattmanngino dot com.
18:33
Speaker 1: Matthew, thank you for being with us.
18:34
Speaker 12: Thank you.
18:35
Speaker 2: So often we hear about how prisoners are quote misunderstood.
18:41
Speaker 2: I'm sure that I misunderstand them. I don't want to
18:44
Speaker 2: understand them, really, because I don't want to go in
18:47
Speaker 2: their brain, in their mind and try to figure them out. Now,
18:51
Speaker 2: not everyone behind bars is a quote bad person, But
18:56
Speaker 2: think about your van der Sloot. He murders a defensives
19:01
Speaker 2: teen girl that I believe he drugged with GHB gamma
19:05
Speaker 2: hydroxy butyrate, and then she ends up dead. I also
19:10
Speaker 2: believe he raped her because he described in detail the designs.
19:16
Speaker 2: I believe there were flowers on her underwear. Now he's
19:22
Speaker 2: trying to extort money from the victim's mother, desperate to
19:29
Speaker 2: find Natalie, or at least find her remains. You know,
19:33
Speaker 2: I'm not even mentioning the murder of Stephanie Tasciana Flores,
19:37
Speaker 2: or the woman he got pregnant behind bars in Peru,
19:42
Speaker 2: who now he's divorcing for someone quote younger and prettier,
19:47
Speaker 2: or the drug scheme he has behind bars. Forget all
19:51
Speaker 2: that just the murder of Natalie and trying to extort
19:55
Speaker 2: money from her mother.
19:57
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, certainly we know from his record here
20:00
Speaker 12: that he's he's not a good person.
20:02
Speaker 2: Man, Wait a minute, not a good person, right, Okay,
20:07
Speaker 2: Jat is certainly putting perfume on the pig. Not a
20:10
Speaker 2: good person. He's a repeat killer. That's a serial killer
20:15
Speaker 2: right there.
20:15
Speaker 12: Well, but we know that he's murdered one person because
20:19
Speaker 12: he's received a twenty eight year cent. You believe he's
20:22
Speaker 12: murdered another person, but that hasn't been proven in the
20:26
Speaker 12: court of law, and we can't. But we can't just say, hey,
20:32
Speaker 12: you know he you know this is his mo. We
20:36
Speaker 12: don't know that he killed Natalie Halloway.
20:39
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, is there's something wrong with my IFB,
20:42
Speaker 2: because I'm pretty sure I heard Matthew man Gina.
20:44
Speaker 1: Say we don't know that he killed Natalie Holloway.
20:47
Speaker 2: Art Harris, I'm pretty sure. Wait no, I'm not pretty sure.
20:51
Speaker 2: I'm convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that your vander slut
20:55
Speaker 2: killed Natalie Holloway. And again, I'm not saying he woke
20:59
Speaker 2: up that more morning and thought, Wow, I'm going to
21:01
Speaker 2: kill Natalie Holloway and had some long extended plans that
21:04
Speaker 2: just poisoning her over a period of time. It could
21:06
Speaker 2: have been a matter of him raping her and she
21:09
Speaker 2: started throwing up the GHB on the beach and ended
21:13
Speaker 2: up dead.
21:14
Speaker 1: That's fell any murder crime stories with Nancy Grace.
21:32
Speaker 2: In the last days, Jordan van der Slut, the judge's
21:35
Speaker 2: son from Aruba who many believe kidnapped, raped, and murdered
21:40
Speaker 2: an Alabama beauty, Natalie Holloway, has appeared in a US
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Speaker 2: courtroom and pled not guilty. I mean, really, what did
21:48
Speaker 2: you expect for him to tell the truth? Pleading not
21:51
Speaker 2: guilty to extorting Natalie's mother thousands of dollars? And we
21:56
Speaker 2: may never get a murder conviction on now's death because
22:01
Speaker 2: that would have to be done in Aruba. Sadly, I'm
22:04
Speaker 2: gonna dare to circle back to Matthew Mangino in a
22:06
Speaker 2: moment to explain why we have to try that case
22:09
Speaker 2: in Aruba. But Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor of
22:13
Speaker 2: forensics Jacksonville State University, who has an incredible criminal science department.
22:21
Speaker 2: I've been there, I've toured it, I've seen it at work.
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Speaker 1: It's amazing.
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Speaker 2: Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and host
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Speaker 2: of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, he did it.
22:37
Speaker 2: And I hear Matthew Mangino, former prosecutor now defense attorney.
22:41
Speaker 2: I get where he's coming from.
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Speaker 1: He did it. I don't care what Mangino says. He
22:47
Speaker 1: did it. I don't know how he did it, Joe Scott,
22:51
Speaker 1: but he did it. He killed her.
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Speaker 13: The problem is, Lord, the problem is I need to
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Speaker 13: do There is no corpus DELECTI, Nancy, there is no
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Speaker 13: body when it comes to the physical person of Natalie Holloway.
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Speaker 2: You know what, being a quote a staying professor of forensics,
23:12
Speaker 2: I expected more than there's no body.
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Speaker 13: Well, it's a tough road, Nancy, when you don't have
23:18
Speaker 13: a body, because you know just the basic things like
23:22
Speaker 13: manner of death, cause of death, those things are you
23:26
Speaker 13: can only speculate about that. And I think that that's
23:28
Speaker 13: probably what matt is getting to, at least in that
23:31
Speaker 13: one little segment. But what we do have are circumstantial
23:35
Speaker 13: events surrounding Natalie Holloway and also his predatory behavior based
23:40
Speaker 13: upon what we're hearing from these other witnesses associated with
23:42
Speaker 13: him where he would actually spike drinks and this was
23:47
Speaker 13: a common occurrence at this one particular bar down there
23:51
Speaker 13: where he could take advantage. I think one of my
23:53
Speaker 13: big question in Nancy here is why is Reuben not
23:57
Speaker 13: motivated to look into a lot of other desks that
24:00
Speaker 13: have occurred down there where we have missing young women
24:05
Speaker 13: that have never turned back up? Did he have a
24:08
Speaker 13: hand in that? You use the term serial killer just
24:11
Speaker 13: a moment ago, and I think that that's something that
24:13
Speaker 13: should deeply, deeply be explored down there because it's quite troubling.
24:19
Speaker 13: And is there anybody else that work down there in
24:21
Speaker 13: that area that knows that their crimes will be assisted
24:24
Speaker 13: in facilitation?
24:25
Speaker 1: Yeah?
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Speaker 2: Just got I've always respected you, I don't always agree
24:29
Speaker 2: with you, but let me just be blunt.
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Speaker 1: What fairytale are you living in? Man?
24:35
Speaker 2: Aruba is no more going to investigate missing girls and
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Speaker 2: women on their island than the man in the moon
24:42
Speaker 2: is going to Because you just heard Art Harris pipe
24:45
Speaker 2: up tourism. Who's going to put a toe on Aruba
24:50
Speaker 2: when you know women go missing and drop dead like flies.
24:54
Speaker 2: It's no, They're not going to uncover anything, you know,
24:57
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. I'm deeply disappointed by certain members of our
25:01
Speaker 2: panel today and they shall remain nameless. But they're saying,
25:06
Speaker 2: we don't know if you're in Vandersliet murdered Natalie. What
25:10
Speaker 2: about his multiple confessions, they're all inconsistent. If somebody accused
25:16
Speaker 2: me and murdered, I'd say, oh, hgln, I was so
25:20
Speaker 2: and so at that time. That did not happen. You're
25:22
Speaker 2: not taking me away from my toys. It's not going
25:25
Speaker 2: to happen. But here he goes, Okay, let me tell
25:27
Speaker 2: you how it happened. She hit her head on a rock,
25:30
Speaker 2: she choked on vomit. She this, we buried her. Now
25:34
Speaker 2: we threw her out at see. Why would he give
25:37
Speaker 2: all of these confessions help me? Cheryl, I obviously have
25:42
Speaker 2: some non believers. I must ferret out on the panel.
25:45
Speaker 14: Not only has he admitted it multiple times, but I
25:48
Speaker 14: want to remind everybody he wrote a book. He wrote
25:52
Speaker 14: a book where he put his faith on the cover
25:55
Speaker 14: and said the Case of Natalie Holloway, my own story
25:58
Speaker 14: about her disappearance. In the title, he says it's the
26:02
Speaker 14: case because he knows it's the criminal case. And in
26:05
Speaker 14: that book. He admits the line in that book he
26:08
Speaker 14: said he found himself at the wrong place, at the
26:10
Speaker 14: wrong time and made a wrong decision.
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Speaker 1: You mean he found himself with her dead body. That's
26:16
Speaker 1: what he meant exactly.
26:17
Speaker 14: And then we had the similar transaction with Stephanie Flores.
26:20
Speaker 14: Then we have his friend coming forward. Remember this guy
26:23
Speaker 14: that says, oh, we burn her up and mixture bones
26:27
Speaker 14: in with some dog bones. But they did find a
26:30
Speaker 14: human bone of a Caucasian European person and Aruba did
26:35
Speaker 14: what with that?
26:37
Speaker 1: Noting they don't want it.
26:39
Speaker 14: They don't want any negative publicity because of their tourism.
26:44
Speaker 14: We know for a fact they have human bones that
26:46
Speaker 14: are not Natalie but somebody else and they will do
26:49
Speaker 14: nothing with it.
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Speaker 2: Guys, how did the extortion scam begin?
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Speaker 1: What is the.
26:56
Speaker 2: Genesis of your van der sluet starting Natalie's mother?
27:03
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that? You know, ar Harris, you.
27:05
Speaker 2: And I you on the media side, me as a
27:08
Speaker 2: felony prosecutor, handled a lot of murder cases, and there
27:14
Speaker 2: is no grief like a murder victim's mother endears nothing
27:21
Speaker 2: like it. You have children, you have your beautiful boys.
27:26
Speaker 2: I mean that changes everything to take advantage of Natalie's
27:31
Speaker 2: mother in that way, what a pos technical legal.
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Speaker 16: He's a con man with less of a conscience than
27:42
Speaker 16: most because he is willing to pray on someone whose
27:46
Speaker 16: heart is so broken that they are willing to do
27:49
Speaker 16: anything to find any information that they think this guy
27:54
Speaker 16: is going to cough up, and if they have to
27:56
Speaker 16: pay for it, fine, But they also know the f
28:00
Speaker 16: the eye is washing and they're laying a trap. They
28:02
Speaker 16: hope that's going to lead to what just happened, which
28:05
Speaker 16: is making the case for extortion and wirefraud against Mandisley,
28:10
Speaker 16: where she can get a piece of him at least
28:13
Speaker 16: a ten to twenty year sentence that would let him
28:16
Speaker 16: spend part of his natural life here and then he
28:19
Speaker 16: gets shipped back to the horrors of Peruvian prison. So
28:23
Speaker 16: looking too good for him.
28:24
Speaker 2: I can only pray Art Harris, Guys, what is a
28:28
Speaker 2: genesis of the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars demand?
28:31
Speaker 1: Take a listen our friends at wc SC.
28:34
Speaker 21: In twenty ten, a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
28:37
Speaker 21: reward for information was offered. Vanderslote stepped forward. According to
28:43
Speaker 21: legal documents, he would reveal the location of Natalie Holloway's body,
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Speaker 21: the circumstances of her death, and identify those involved in
28:51
Speaker 21: return for a payment of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
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Speaker 21: The Halloway's attorney went with Vanderslote to a home in
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Speaker 21: Aruba and a twenty five thousand dollars down payment was
29:02
Speaker 21: given to him. Once there, Van der Slote pointed to
29:05
Speaker 21: the residence and said that Natalie's body would be found
29:08
Speaker 21: in the foundation. Vanderslote emailed the Holloways after fleeing to Peru,
29:13
Speaker 21: saying he had lied about the location of Natalie's remains.
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Speaker 1: And what did he do with it?
29:21
Speaker 2: Twenty five grand he scammed from Natalie's grieving mother.
29:28
Speaker 1: Listen to this.
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Speaker 21: Surveillance video from a Lima casino shows Van der Slote gambling,
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Speaker 21: it is believed with the twenty five thousand he got
29:36
Speaker 21: from the Holloway family. There he met the daughter of
29:39
Speaker 21: a prominent Peruvian businessman, Stephanie Floydis. Hours later she was dead.
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Speaker 22: I am truly regretful for what I have done.
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Speaker 21: Vanderslote admitted to the violent murder and was sent to prison.
29:55
Speaker 2: So he gets the twenty five grand that he extortes
30:00
Speaker 2: from Nally's mother, goes straight to Peru and spends it,
30:06
Speaker 2: spins it at casinos, and there he meets Stephanie Tassiana Flores.
30:12
Speaker 2: I want to talk about what's happening to your vander Slute.
30:17
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.
30:19
Speaker 21: You're in vander Slope, one of Peru's highest profile inmates,
30:22
Speaker 21: injured during a brawl in one of the country's most
30:25
Speaker 21: violent prisons. It was a fight among some inmates, and
30:28
Speaker 21: my client got involved when he tried to defend his friend.
30:32
Speaker 21: Vander Slote is in prison for killing a woman in
30:34
Speaker 21: Peru thirteen years ago.
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Speaker 17: I want to give a sincere confession.
30:41
Speaker 2: A sincere confession, my rear end there's not one sincere
30:45
Speaker 2: bone and your in.
30:46
Speaker 1: Vander Slut's body. Take a listen to Jay O'Brien Gma.
30:50
Speaker 18: His lawyer, telling ABC News he was severely beaten in
30:54
Speaker 18: the Peruvian prison where he was being held, but that
30:57
Speaker 18: the incident is unrelated to vander Slut's extradition. He's now
31:00
Speaker 18: expected to be handed over to Peruvian intelligence agents, then
31:03
Speaker 18: delivered to US officials, and ultimately brought to Alabama, where
31:07
Speaker 18: the Dutch national faces more than a decade old federal
31:10
Speaker 18: extortion and wirefraud charges tied to Holloway's disappearance.
31:15
Speaker 2: Joining me right now an expert an extradition and foreign
31:20
Speaker 2: government relations with the US as it relates to our
31:24
Speaker 2: justice system. IRV Brandt is with a senior inspector with
31:28
Speaker 2: the US Marshall Service their International Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector DOJ,
31:35
Speaker 2: Office of International Affairs. Author of Solo Shot and Flying
31:40
Speaker 2: Solo on Amazon.
31:44
Speaker 1: IRV Brandt two things.
31:47
Speaker 2: I'm very suspicious of the beating incident which caused him
31:51
Speaker 2: we understand to be moved to a different jail in Peru.
31:56
Speaker 1: I don't like it. He could have been put in solitary.
32:00
Speaker 2: Any number of measures could have been taken other than
32:03
Speaker 2: moving him. And it is very often in a jailhouse
32:07
Speaker 2: move I mean, look at Bundy.
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Speaker 1: He escaped.
32:12
Speaker 2: At the courthouse, in the law library. Whenever there's a
32:16
Speaker 2: change of conditions. If you look at escape piece, very happened.
32:20
Speaker 2: Very often the escape takes place when they are being transported,
32:24
Speaker 2: So he gets in a fight and has to be
32:27
Speaker 2: transported to another jail. What they don't have another cell
32:31
Speaker 2: at the current jail he was in. I don't like
32:34
Speaker 2: the smell of.
32:35
Speaker 22: That right there, No, Nancy, it stinks to high heaven,
32:39
Speaker 22: and it arouses suspicions on the motivations of the people
32:44
Speaker 22: handling him, Maybe the motivations of him. Maybe he was
32:47
Speaker 22: intentionally trying to get into a fight so he could
32:49
Speaker 22: get into a medical wing. There's a lot to be
32:54
Speaker 22: considered when you're handling prisoner transfers.
32:59
Speaker 2: And why now he's been in jail for murdering Stephanie
33:02
Speaker 2: Tosciana Flores, same mo modus operad I'm method of operation
33:06
Speaker 2: as with Natalie at a casino, young female lures her away,
33:11
Speaker 2: she ends up dead. Why now does he suddenly get
33:15
Speaker 2: in a fight and have to move jail facilities.
33:17
Speaker 22: They moved him from his facility to the facility in
33:23
Speaker 22: the Capitol, and that's probably what started to fight. Is
33:28
Speaker 22: he is in a brand new facility with inmates that
33:33
Speaker 22: have never come in contact with them before. You're right,
33:36
Speaker 22: and he got into an altercation. And I'm sure he's
33:40
Speaker 22: in isolation now until he can be turned over to
33:46
Speaker 22: the FBI. Oh, I'm sure have the paperwork done, They
33:49
Speaker 22: have the parole letter, They have a jet waiting just
33:53
Speaker 22: as soon as he's turned over to him, they're going
33:56
Speaker 22: to go wheels up and they'll be heading for the
33:58
Speaker 22: US and just as soon as he lands in the US,
34:02
Speaker 22: as soon as they get him back to Alabama, they're
34:05
Speaker 22: going to bring him in for his initial appearance and
34:07
Speaker 22: detention hearing. Where if you remanded to the custody of
34:11
Speaker 22: the United States Marshall Service.
34:13
Speaker 2: Another question to IRV Brandt joining US US Marshal Service International,
34:18
Speaker 2: why is it shrouded in secrecy the extradition process. They
34:23
Speaker 2: always get the prisoner in the middle of the night.
34:26
Speaker 1: Why is that?
34:27
Speaker 22: It's just security precautions that are standard in every extradition
34:33
Speaker 22: with a high profile cases. Even more, if you announce it,
34:38
Speaker 22: you're going to have news helicopters flying around when you're
34:43
Speaker 22: trying to get a shot of him being loaded on
34:45
Speaker 22: the jet. You're going to have people gathered around in
34:50
Speaker 22: terminals or places where they land. It's just something that
34:57
Speaker 22: you try to avoid. The less people who know, the
35:01
Speaker 22: more control you have over the situation. Like you said
35:04
Speaker 22: about fearing an incident in transit, it just cuts down
35:09
Speaker 22: on the chances of there being an incident.
35:11
Speaker 1: I mean, for Pete's sake.
35:12
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, I couldn't bring a witness over from the
35:16
Speaker 2: Fulton County Jail to the Fulton County Courthouse without some
35:19
Speaker 2: incident on the jail transport bus somebody getting stabbed with
35:22
Speaker 2: a pencil, or a fight breaking out, or the witness
35:26
Speaker 2: getting intimidated, just on the twenty minute ride to the courthouse,
35:30
Speaker 2: much less transcontinental flight from Peru to the US.
35:35
Speaker 1: There's a lot that could go wrong.
35:37
Speaker 14: There's a lot that could go wrong. But I'm going
35:39
Speaker 14: to tell you the Marshall Service are top drawer. He's
35:43
Speaker 14: going to be handcuffed. They already know he's a con artist.
35:46
Speaker 14: They already know what he's about. They are not going
35:48
Speaker 14: to be fooled. They are not going to be impressed.
35:51
Speaker 14: They are going to have zero issue getting him to Alabama.
35:55
Speaker 14: And once he's there, it's going to be a different
35:58
Speaker 14: world for him. I promise you, he ain't going to
36:01
Speaker 14: be running drugs there, he ain't going to have no
36:04
Speaker 14: collgo visit there. It's going to be a completely different
36:09
Speaker 14: world immediately.
36:10
Speaker 2: It doesn't always end the way we think it will
36:14
Speaker 2: when it comes to extraditions. It's frankly a miracle that
36:20
Speaker 2: we've gotten this far and it's taken two decades to
36:25
Speaker 2: get this guy extradited to the US. Do I need
36:28
Speaker 2: to say the name Roman Polanski? Take us to your
36:33
Speaker 2: own news.
36:34
Speaker 23: Poland Supreme Court is a rule that filmmaker Roman Polanski
36:37
Speaker 23: cannot be extradited too the US over a child sex
36:40
Speaker 23: conviction in the nineteen seventies. The three judges rejected an
36:43
Speaker 23: appealed by the Polish government a district court in Crackoff.
36:47
Speaker 23: It also ruled the American demand was inadmissible. The Supreme
36:50
Speaker 23: Court's decision is final. The United States had requested the
36:53
Speaker 23: Oscar winning director's extradition after he made a high profile
36:57
Speaker 23: appearance in Warsaw two years ago. Polanski, who is now
37:00
Speaker 23: eighty three, admitted unlawful sex with a thirteen year old
37:03
Speaker 23: girl in nineteen seventy seven. He spent six weeks in
37:06
Speaker 23: jail after a plea bug in, but then fled the US,
37:09
Speaker 23: fearing a lengthy jail sentence if the agreement was overruled.
37:12
Speaker 23: His victim has said the filmmaker's exile has been punishment enough.
37:16
Speaker 23: Polanski has dual French Polish nationality and lives in France,
37:19
Speaker 23: which doesn't extradite it citizens.
37:21
Speaker 2: So there you have France refusing to extradite an alleged
37:26
Speaker 2: child rapist Roman Polanski. On the other hand, sometimes it
37:32
Speaker 2: all works out the way you wanted to Take a
37:35
Speaker 2: listen hour cut one oh seven our friends at ABC.
37:38
Speaker 24: This dramatic moment was the beginning of the end for
37:41
Speaker 24: Joaquin al Chappel Gusman. After his long run from the law,
37:44
Speaker 24: repeatedly escaping authorities, he was now caught. He had no
37:48
Speaker 24: idea where he was being taken. In this never before
37:51
Speaker 24: seen video obtained by ABC News, this was the moment
37:54
Speaker 24: when the notorious drug lord learned he had landed in
37:57
Speaker 24: New York. He had been brought to the US to
37:59
Speaker 24: face justice.
38:00
Speaker 2: What about a single female hiding out in Costa Rica.
38:06
Speaker 2: Take a list and his name, Kaitlin Armstrong ring a
38:09
Speaker 2: bell to our cut one hundred our friends at Fox seven.
38:12
Speaker 1: Armstrong used a passport.
38:15
Speaker 25: Now, the real identity of the person who had that passport,
38:18
Speaker 25: we're told, was somebody who closely physically resembled her. She
38:21
Speaker 25: continued using that alias well in Costa Rica, taking a
38:24
Speaker 25: bus going to yoga studios. This enabled authorities to establish
38:28
Speaker 25: a paper trail and eventually close in on her.
38:32
Speaker 2: And when Kaitlin Armstrong was finally found she had actually
38:35
Speaker 2: had cosmetic surgery to change her appearance. That said Cheryl McCollum,
38:41
Speaker 2: it's a miracle. That was Judge's son, Jorn van der
38:44
Speaker 2: Sloot in a court of law, finally on us soil. Well,
38:48
Speaker 2: this is just the beginning of a long and painful
38:50
Speaker 2: process where Yorn Vanderslout will be tried for extorting, blackmailing
38:57
Speaker 2: through wire fraud Natalie's From what I know about Beth Holloway,
39:04
Speaker 2: she is going to see it through to the bitter end.
39:08
Speaker 2: God bless her and Natalie's entire family. We wait as
39:14
Speaker 2: just as unfolds. Goodbye, friend,