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Episode #48: How to Harness the Power of Fight or Flight to Boost Immunity · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is gonna blow your mind.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it it showed that acute fight or flight has long-term adaptive benefits to the body.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I want to add a caveat because based on our last podcast, we've talked about not being able to complete the fight or flight cycle.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: The caveat is it has to be an acute bout of fight or flight where you've completed the nervous system response.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everybody, welcome to another podcast from the Beyond Labels team of yours truly, Joel Salatin, the farmer, and Dr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough, the research scientist.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have a special treat.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're bringing our podcast to you from the Two Days of Truth Summit that was held recently at Polyface Farm.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this podcast is going to be about harnessing the power of flight or fight in building your immune system.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: The entire um two-day summit is now available for you to purchase.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: The link is in the description box, and we'd be glad for you to see the whole thing and encourage your friends to get one as well if they weren't able to come.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And now we have Sina talking about the power of flight and fight.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, welcome to another Beyond Labels podcast with Cena McCullough, guru of research and nutrition.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Joel Salatin, your co-host.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: We are today doing this at Polyface Farm, where we are have a live audience.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: As part of our Two Days of Truth seminar, which is a two-day seminar, and this is our second year doing it, and I think we might have started something here.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's really exciting to see everybody here and everybody back.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so the last two um the last two podcasts we've done have been about rewiring the nervous system, legacy dysfunction, and how it actually rears its ugly head later in life, sometimes buried in a history before birth.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's pretty pretty amazing to think about that kind of uh that kind of effect.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So today we want to move another step further and say, okay, we're in, you know, uh a fight or flight has it has both negative and positive um energies, consequences, parts of it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're gonna talk about harnessing the power of fight or flight.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's drill down on that.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Cena?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! So I'm super excited about this topic because I think a lot of us have now become afraid of fight or flight in a way, because it's talked about, right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Chronic fight or flight is bad.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: How can we get out of fight or flight?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we just spent a couple podcasts talking about how to rewire the nervous system to get out of fight or flight.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm going to kind of throw a wrench in it.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna ask can we harness the power of fight or flight?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, can we use fight or flight to build resilience in our bodies, mind, in our in our spirit?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So many of us, like I said, are trying to get out of fight or flight.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So what is the purpose of fight or flight?
• 3:33
  unknown: Survival.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is survival.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it that's an acute purpose.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a chronic function of an acute bout of fight or flight?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So is there any when you go into fight or flight acutely, is it possible that it serves another purpose, an adaptive purpose for your body?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I started thinking about silence, right?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I started my husband and I had this great conversation.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: But that's short term.
• 4:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about a long-term adaptive benefit of you going into fight or flight.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Does that exist?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I had this great conversation with my husband where it got us on this line of thinking.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Where I we I thought, you know, so I'm born and raised in California, right?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Surfer dudes.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And these were my friends, the surfer dudes, the mountain bikers, you name it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what was really interesting about the situation is that, and I was one of the mountain bikers too.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: When we're mountain biking, we're so intent, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're in that moment, we're in fight or flight, okay?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: But afterward, and for a long time afterwards, hours afterwards, even days, the personality changed.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: We were chill, right?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So the that whole stereotype of the surfer dude being all relaxed and chill, it is in large part true, right?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're like ferocious when they're on the board, but they're chill in the in their life.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, is there a correlation there?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is there something there that we're just missing?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like I said, I mountain bike, and my husband thinks I'm crazy to mountain bike because I don't do just the little like, oh, little, you know, gravel road.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I like to mountain bike over rocks and you know, along cliffs, like something that intentionally puts me in fight or flight.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always said to people, they're like, why do you do that stuff?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: You could die doing that.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll say to them, because it's therapeutic for me, it puts me closer to God and to nature.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm thinking about this, and I'm thinking, how could a short-term fight or flight bout actually be therapeutic for me in the moment and beyond, right?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So what I found was a study, right?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Go figure, I found another study.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I started digging and I looked into this, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, it's not just people who are mountain bike and surf, it's people why do people like roller coasters, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: They get that adrenaline rush, parachuting, uh, rock climbing, running, the runner's high that people get.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be physical sport, it could be high-stakes gambling or watching a scary movie, for instance, or any activity that involves timing it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Those all put you into a state of fight or flight.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't just have to be physical activity.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I found this study, I think it's gonna blow your mind.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it it showed that acute fight or flight has long-term adaptive benefits to the body.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I want to add a caveat because based on our last podcast, we've talked about not being able to complete the fight or flight cycle.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: The caveat is it has to be an acute bout of fight or flight where you've completed the nervous system response.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you've gone into sympathetic and you come back into parasympathetic.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And as we learned, when you're regulate when your system is dysregulated, you don't come back into parasympathetic.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, what if we could use these acute bouts of fight or flight, of exercise or activities that we enjoy?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So just to make sure we're all on the same page, when you say acute, let's think about, for example, a spousal abuse situation.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: You How do you go to the negative?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like what?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, no, no.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying I'm just trying to make sure I understand that you said you have to go through the whole cycle.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So in that situation, you don't complete the cycle.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, you're fabricating a dangerous situation that that has that has an end.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: It has an end.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas the other doesn't have an end.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're stuck in that abusive relationship.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so so that that's a really big difference.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge difference.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent point, Strill.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, it has to be it has to have a a start and an end.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So my mountain bike ride, um, the gambling hand that you just played.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: The the tree that falls the wrong way and you get it down.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's on the ground.
• 8:05
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: It has to have an end, okay?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought, could we actually rewire the nervous system, right?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Not having to go through all these other techniques that we've previously talked about.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Could you start rewiring it by engaging in an acute bout of activity that you enjoy?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that perhaps one of the purposes of the adrenaline rush is to elevate your emotions.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: The runner's high.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: You feel good when you're doing that exercise.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: When I mountain bike, I'm in bliss.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: My body's I I could die, right, in some of these situations.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I was almost bit by a rattlesnake once when I was on the mountain bike.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I ran over him.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: He lived.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: I went back to make sure he was alive.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: But yes.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So five or you didn't bring him into your house like the dogs.
• 8:54
  unknown: No.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: My dogs would eat that rattlesnake.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so anyhow, so when I mountain bike, I am in an elevated state of emotion, even though I'm in fight or flight, right?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because this it's an appropriate amount of adrenaline, for instance, that is released, and I feel good.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought maybe these types of activities, we could, it could almost be like feeding, um, feeding two birds with one stone or one scone, right?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Have you heard that?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let's feed two birds with one scone.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we can do more things that we enjoy while also rewiring the nervous system.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I found this study that said short-term stress, short-term fight or flight response, one that completes the pattern, can make you more resilient mentally and physically.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: It can boost your immune system long-term and can improve your cognitive function and ability.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So here's some examples of the long-term stress, the chronic stress versus short-term.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: We know long-term stress accelerates biological aging.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: It does this through dysregulating the nervous system.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, downregulates antioxidant and anti-inflammatory systems, shortens the length of your telomeres.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but short-term stress that you can complete the cycle can actually reverse the aging process.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Second example, long-term stress we know leads to cancer.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Again, dysregulated nervous system.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Short-term stress can actually heal cancer.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: There are studies showing that these short-term stress bouts increase your ability to detect and eliminate tumors and cancer cells.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: The activity seems to direct the immune cell, so they target those cancer cells instead of being confused, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is a case recently reported where somebody who got COVID-like symptoms, who had cancer, the cancer started reversing once they got that infection.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we see this in the literature, acute infections, lots of them, can lead to reversal of disease.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, for instance, there's at least eight studies.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: The acute affection, the acute affection.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: The acute infection being similar to short-term stress.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because in acute infection, I'm trying to make sure we all understand what it is.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: That you need that connecting point.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Acute infections are a form of short-term fight or flight.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what I'm demonstrating to you, and I have one more example of this, is these short-term bouts of fight or flight that you're able to complete do heal the body.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: They have an adaptive benefit.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a study in 2015 that showed that people who got measles and mumps as children reduced the risk of their death in adulthood from cardiovascular disease.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's studies now being done and have been done where giving people worms have alleviated symptoms of MS, multiple sclerosis, IBS, migraines, seasonal allergies, and other autoimmune conditions.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they induced the short-term stress response and it healed the body.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought to myself, you know, this really makes sense because what if these short-term stress bouts keep the nervous system oiled and fine-tuned, right?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about it, the skeletal muscle system, right?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why do we exercise?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you push put stress on the skeletal muscles, they will adapt, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: They hypertrophy.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it needed the stress, short-term stress, like lifting a weight, to adapt.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with your cardiovascular system.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It needs stress to become stronger.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have that stress, like through aerobic exercise, for instance, then the vessels become weaker.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it too needed a stress to adapt.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: The immune system also needs stress, short-term stress, to adapt.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hence, when we isolate ourselves, we tend to have a less resilient immune system.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: We need exposure to different microbes in the environment.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: We know this is true because sterile environments have led to all kinds of diseases, particularly in children.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So if all of these systems need acute bouts of stress to adapt, why would the nervous system be any different?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what this study is showing is, or what they're theorizing, is that just like in a fight or flight response, it it actually have helps your cardiovascular system, your muscular skeletal system, and your endocrine system to adapt, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: It gets it ready to fight or to flee.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we also know now that this fight or flight response prepares the immune system.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you think of our ancient ancestors, if they're in fight or flight, what are they usually fighting or fleeing from?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: What would it be?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, actual danger, physical danger, like a wild animal coming to chase them.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So wouldn't it make sense for the body to be prepared in case a wound was incurred from that animal?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: So why wouldn't the body, when it initiated fight or flight, trigger the immune system to adapt?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with the cognitive ability.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: If there's a tiger chasing you, you need to be thinking clearly.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And fight or flight gives you that energy and that quick thinking.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be thinking of, for instance, an escape route.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna get away from this tiger, for instance?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So wouldn't it make sense that the body would also increase your cognitive ability as an adaptive response to fight or flight, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: We are meant to survive and to thrive in different situations.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, all of this piece together means that one way to rewire the nervous system, to bring it back into coherence, is to start engaging in these short-term fight or flight activities that bring you joy, things that you like, activities that you can find a completion to.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I will add, and I'll let you jump in here, when we're talking about in previous podcasts, we talked about attaching the elevated emotion to be able to rewire your nervous system.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to just have one example of why the emotions are so important and why it's so important then to do this acute stress response from an activity that you enjoy.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because many studies have shown that if you trigger the stress response, and let's say you're angry, you are going to release more cytokines than you need.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: So an inappropriate amount, a mismatched amount.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when you go into fight or flight, for instance, you release interleukin 6, for example, and it's gonna help you in fight or flight.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's good in that moment.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you're angry when you go into fight or flight, it reduces more interleukin 6 that now your body has to deal with.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And let's say you're mulling over some negative experience that happened to you, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: A past relationship or something.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now you've gone into fight or flight, and because you attached a negative emotion to it, more interleukin 6 has been released than you need, it becomes pro-inflammatory.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't do anything, if you don't move your body, for instance, you know, fight or flight, it sits in your body, and that's how it becomes deleterious to you.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important to pick activities that you enjoy so you can go into that elevated state.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And let me add one more thing, and I'll throw it over to you because I'm done.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to I want to hear about your animals, the adaptive for the animals.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I found these studies, you know, our folk, one of our focuses this year at this summit is community.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I found these studies that showed that, and this is in relation to interleukin 6, let's keep on with that example.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you have a perception that you have a social support group, it will actually lower the amount of interleukin 6 that's released during fight or flight.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Community has that kind of power, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they were thinking that this is actually something that the body adapted to do.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you are on your own, right, and there's real danger chasing you, a real tiger chasing you, you're gonna need all the interleukin 6 you can get because you need to be angry so you can get away from that tiger or fight it, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're in a community, you don't need to expend all that energy in fight or flight because you have other people around you that have got your back.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a another way that the body has adapted.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: But isn't that amazing that it it is amazing.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what what's really amazing is just how closely related the um the physical emotional is.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm finding it I'm finding it just fascinating that you're saying if you want to, if you want to become more whatever, emotionally stable and healthy, not only does that affect your immune system, but the way to get your emotional stability in shape is to is to put yourself in a physical spot of stress.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, that that's just it it seems counterintuitive, you know.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh shouldn't you find your, you know, inner, shouldn't you just sit?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean sit and find that bliss.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so so it it uh again, it's just uh there's a lot of protocols, you know, to this.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: We we see it with you know with with animals.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, they of course, you know, the guru on this, Dr.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Temple Grandin, and animals completely live in a moment.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have a calendar.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're not sitting there thinking, well, I gotta go to the doctor tomorrow, take the kids to soccer practice next week, you know, fix dinner for you know guests on Friday.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have a calendar.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they live completely in the moment.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So their ability to go from content to scared is so far beyond ours, it's unbelievable.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you can you can go out here and in, you know, those contented cows out there, you could go out there in that field, run out in the field and scream, and they would just they would go bonkers.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they would be flying to the back end of the field, they'd be scared to death.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it happens that fast.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so so you can you can actually train the animals with routine, with routine, with calmness, calm voice, um, you know, not not um, you know throwing you know flags and sticks.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I see people they they go out with all sorts of you know things to wave around and carry on, and and you know, I don't want anybody clapping, yelling around our cows, and and what happens is that you you actually build into them a trust that they're not gonna hurt me.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and it's interesting it's interesting that pigs, interestingly, pigs are the smartest of all the farm animals, and they are the hardest to get to trust you.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So as you go down the echelon, you know, turkeys trust you really quick.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Turkeys, chickens, you know, less um cows trust you, and pigs are at the far end.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the smarter they are, the more they're thinking through, and the longer it takes to develop trust.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's it's it's a pretty it's a pretty uh it's a pretty amazing thing.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as we were talking, I couldn't help but think of the hygiene hypothesis.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where um we have become so sterile.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, think how fast the antimicrobial soap.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it came and it went like in what, five years?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, I mean that's got to be one of the quickest changes of the orthodox narrative ever.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody was supposed to get antimicrobial soap, and then five years later, it's illegal to even sell it.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean it it's just unbelievable how fast uh how fast that went, as people understood.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And in uh, you know, Finland leads the world in understanding that that putting your hands in dirt and actually um uh touching your they've done a bunch of studies um where they've they've taken the immune system of, for example, farm kids that go out, you know, as infants into the dairy barn and probably you know put their hands in some manure and lick it, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Compared to the city kids that are bathed every day and all clean.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the immune system is unbelievable.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And Finland is actually developing country-city uh liaisons to bring country dirt into city homes.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if anybody's entrepreneurial here, I really think that there's an opportunity here for somebody to offer a subscription service for city people to have country dirt on a like a welcome mat.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So so everybody you go into your house and you stop on it and dust, you know, country dust comes up on your body and your system.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And track it into the house.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And track it into the house and and and breathe it a little bit.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, every every quarter I'll come and and you know, it's it's like it's like a it's like a balloon mat, right, with a zipper on it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Every every month, every quarter I'll come and pour it out and and put in some new, right?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a subscription service to to have uh you know your urban uh your urban immune your urban immune exercise response uh system.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: We laugh, but I would pay for that if you came and gave me polyface dirt.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I would.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, that's I think we've got a new economic enterprise.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that's one of the blessings of my dogs.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: You Joel gives me a hard time that I have five dogs, that he thinks they're worthless, I need to get a chicken.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that it's true! One thing that my dogs do, they go roll out in that dirt and we don't spray anything in the yard.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: They bring the dirt in, and my kids were all barefoot, and my my two-year-olds putting stuff in our hands from them touching them.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: So they help build our microbiome.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, that's exactly right.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll tell you, this has been a fascinating discussion.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've gone just a bit over time, but um always uh uh fascinating to listen to your the studies that you find and and connect these dots.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it uh we we tend to think it's so complicated, but really it's it's not.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And here on the farm, we we do a lot with ecological exercise, you know.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh this is why we don't want wilderness areas, because it just you you you can't just pull away and let ecology stagnate.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It needs exercise too.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the fires that used to happen and bison and seven million head running across, you know, that's stress.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big deal.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, so to end this one, you know what I'm gonna try?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I my husband and I literally just pontificated about this last week, and I thought this is this is so unorthodox at this moment, right, in our culture, that I wanted to present this today.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I'm going to do is test this out on myself and my children.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, as a scientist, I'm gonna track it all, and then I'm gonna come back on the podcast and tell you what kind of changes we saw, if any.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so all of you are going next week out to the Gali River and your bungee jumping off the bridge at the Gali River.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: That pushes me into overwhelm.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I would stick to my mountain biking.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: It would mean too.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for joining us again for another um Beyond Labels podcast, and we look forward to seeing you next time.