Latest / INSPIRE STORY / Postures and Prana, and How to Move from Fear to Clarity.

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Postures and Prana, and How to Move from Fear to Clarity. · INSPIRE STORY

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Inspire Health Podcast. Your life is about
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to get a whole lot better. Have you ever felt
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like you tried everything and yet still couldn't find the
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answers or the solutions that you were seeking, Whether you're
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dealing with chronic illness, physical or emotional pain. I want
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you to know that your body is the most sophisticated
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machine on planet Earth. Your body holds unfathomable wisdom. Trust
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in it and learn from it. Know that there are
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answers and there are solutions to your specific health challenges,
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and we will be uncovering all of them here on
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the Inspire Health Podcast. I'm so excited to be a
0:39
part of your healing journey. Your transformation starts out. Hi, everybody,
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Welcome back to another episode of the Inspire Health Podcast.
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Today's guest is Sarah Powers. Sarah Powers is the co
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founder of the Insight Yoga Institute as well as the
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author of Insight Yoga, which interweaves yoga, boodhs, Taoism, and
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trans personal psychology into an integral practice to discover and
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enliven the body, heart, and mind. Her yoga style blends
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both a yin sequence of floor poses to enhance the
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meridian and organ systems with an alignment based slow foe,
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slow flow or Yang practice influenced by Vini, Yoga, Ashtanga,
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Ayanger and Chigong. Sarah has completed all the levels of
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the Internal Family Systems therapy training and has been a
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student of trans personal psychology for over thirty years. She
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also draws from her in depth training in the Vipassiona,
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Tantric and Zochen practices in Buddhism. Sarah, is such a
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pleasure to have you here today.
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Speaker 2: Thank you so treat to be here for me as well.
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Speaker 1: Wonderful. So, Sarah, I'm wondering if you can just start
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by giving us an overview. As I know this has
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transitioned over the years. It sounds like at least when
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I've looked at your work from previous and it's kind
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of switched from yin the focus is more on insight.
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If you can just give us an overall story of
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how did you get into this world of yoga?
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Speaker 2: Years ago? I was interested in physical practices that had
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energetic and spiritual holding environments for them, and that was
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probably my interest in psychology came before I was introduced
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to yoga as a psycho spiritual practice, and in my
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therapy training, we were required to find a spiritual system
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that had physical practices, and many of my peers were
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choosing tai chi and chikong and more Chinese based systems.
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And I was in California and this was the eighties,
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and I had read a book on yoga that my
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brother had given me, done some of the poses with
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my husband on the floor in our living room for
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a few weeks and enjoyed it. Didn't really have much
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understanding of the multidimensional effects, but I decided to fulfill
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that particular quadrant of my training. I went to a
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yoga retreat for teachers, feeling like I would learn the
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practice from behind the scenes, how teachers orient themselves before
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they give an hour lesson, and that was life changing.
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That really helped me see that there were elements of
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philosophy and psychology and physicality and energetic cultivation and the
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highest spiritual aspirations all within one umbrella called yoga. So
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I felt like I had found a home that would
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tether my diverse interests. And instead of finishing the graduate program,
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I just started studying everything I could about yoga, and
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that was my graduation. So to speak into a world
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of life curiosity practice, offering to people who were interested
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as a teacher, and continues to be my ground support every.
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Speaker 1: Day nice And I think it's such a natural blend too.
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I know my wife was very interested in yoga, and
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prior to that, she was very interested in psychology. And
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I think there's a real natural blend when you can
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look at Western psychology has to offer and then connect
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it with some of these age old traditions that have
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been a part of cultures for thousands of years, and
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there's some really nice overlap I think between those, and
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I think.
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Speaker 2: We're adding to that overlap in modernity in a way
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that is benefiting the evolution of these ancient systems, not
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to mention bringing women into leadership roles and bringing in
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women's issues and needs which were not written about or
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even spoken about until we in mass started showing up
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when we were finally allowed through the door. So I
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do feel like bringing Western psychology perspectives of developmental understanding
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is really helping flesh out some of the things that
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were just like the yoga sutras, which are just pity atherisms.
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In those aphorisms, you don't get the juice of the
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meaning you just get the summary, and with the Western
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modality of flushing something out so it makes sense subjectively
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rather than just universally. I feel like it's made it
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much more available to the ordinary person like me. I
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have a worldly life, I live in a city, I
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have a child. You know, all these things that before
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would have occluded me from partaking in the depth of
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the practice. And now I think we can integrated if
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we have a lot of support and intentionality. Those two
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things are really important. And support and intentionality.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. Sarah, How did
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you move from maybe just go through the chain of
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events that happened, or how things kind of gradually change
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from moving to yin yoga, and how you decided on
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focusing specifical on yin yoga, and how that transition into
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what you now call insight yoga.
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Speaker 2: Sure, it's all yoga, I feel, which is still one
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of the best encompassing terms for all that's possible to
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live an integrated and enriched and loving life, feeling the
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love of our essence nature in our life as every
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day ordinary activities progress. So I always felt like I
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was a yoga teacher who was using the body as
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a jump off point for further exploration. And I would
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say that my commitment to mind training through the students
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and teachers who were so ravenous about that exploration, which
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were the Buddhists, came about the same time that I
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was reintroduced to this style of holding poses for longer
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periods for different benefits that we're calling you in yoga.
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I know Paul Grilly from a long time ago. We
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were both teaching at yoga works in the eighties and
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he was sharing poses on the floor and not speaking
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so much about the benefits of the time. He was
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still discovering how to share it as a direct teaching,
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but he was still offering a space for that, and
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so I practiced it along with my ashtanga in the
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eighties without any background or understanding per se of the
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many benefits I was reaping. But then I moved away
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from la as did he, and so ten years went
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by where in the nineties I didn't really incorporate it much.
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Some of what I remembered, mostly because I had been
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also are trained. I was doing restorative poses with a
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lot of props and offering that to the people. I
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was often doing therapeutic yoga with one on one. But
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in the late nineties, I was living in the Bay
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area of San Francisco and Paul was coming through with
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his wife, Susie, and I decided I would catch up
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with them by going to their workshop, and he was
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teaching Daoist yoga, and he would do active poses and
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more flower quiet poses in the afternoon. And because I'd
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been to a number of Buddhist retreats by then, I
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found it incredibly supportive for stillness and for my meditative endeavors.
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So that was really my motivation after that weekend with him,
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was to use it as a bridge from active poses
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to complete stillness. It felt somewhere in between. So for
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five minutes at a time staying still in a pose
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rather than for twenty five or fifty minutes of seated meditation,
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I felt like I could do many meditation sessions and
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be immediately tuned in to the reactivity to discomfort, body sensations,
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and then the impatience in my personality structure, so lots
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of obstacles would reveal themselves quicker. Because the pose was
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not so neutral, it was challenging, whereas in restorative yoga
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it was more or less comfortable because of the props
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and could stay there a long time without a lot
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of material that I needed to work with. So I
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would either listen to a story or go into more
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of a very kind of quiet, sleepy, almost yoga nidra
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space in my restorative practices, and in discovering there were
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some benefits for my psychological evolution. Shall always say it
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also helped me be more comfortable when I would go
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into my meditation posture. So it had these benefits. So
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I started seeking out Palmer he was teaching more often,
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inviting him to teach to my students, eventually suggesting we
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teach other teachers to learn how to balance their style
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of practice, and we led teacher trainings for a number
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of years the two of us, where I would do
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more active style and Buddhist meditation and he would do
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they and the Taoist piece, and so our relationship grew.
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The four of us, my husband and I. He's the
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Buddhist teacher. Susie, of course, is taught wonderfully with Paul,
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and is herself credible dancer and choreographers, so she brought
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so many elements of her fierce femininity into his teaching.
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So the sense for me is that the Yin style
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of practice was more about the receptive and yielding and
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introspective aspects of our nature being developed while we did
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a so called physical practice. Because a posture is not
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necessarily yin or yong, it's how you practice it will
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determine which tissues get more dramatically influenced or not. And
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I started calling what I was teaching yin and vinyasa
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so people would have a sense that I was going
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to describe the difference of vinyasa and other ways of practicing.
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So for years I would give talks while putting people
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in postures and describe how this may benefit you in
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ways you didn't suspect. And eventually having described that any
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practice that involves the muscles and has rhythmic movement is
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more of a young practice in compliment to a more
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stillness based style, then I just started calling it Yin
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yong yoga, and bringing my Buddhist meditation into the mix
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was something that I guess I just kind of known
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for would say Yin Yong yoga Buddhist mindfulness. And after
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I finished finally all of this writing that I had
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done for years for my trainings and my retreats. I
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put it in a book, and it was really the publisher, No,
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I know what it was. It was a video that
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I made with Prana Maya and they also were Buddhists,
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and they said, you know, what you're doing is very
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much bridging yoga and Buddhism, and the word in vapashna
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is insite practice, and why don't we call this inside Yoga?
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And I thought that was perfect. So they really were
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the ones. And then when I wrote the book, I
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told Himbala about a video I had called inside Yoga?
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Did they want to use that for the book title?
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And that also just felt like just the right, very
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simple description of this blend of these very vast streams
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Buddhism and Yoga. So I've been calling it that ever
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since because it feels like a really good encompassing way
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to share that this is what we will bring home.
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They're not something that has to be separate for anyone. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: No, I think that makes sense, and I think that's
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a really I think that's a really nice name for
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your style of what you do and what all you've
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integrated together. One thing that you mentioned was talking about
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using the yin postures for shorter periods of almost creating stillness,
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almost like mini meditation sort of breaks. And you said
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that it was even easier when you did go into
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your meditation postures. Did you mean from a point of
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view of to settle in your seat more easily from
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a physical standpoint, or just from more of like a
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you were able to fall into your meditation more comfortably,
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or do you mean more like a physical sensation your
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body was more limber to be able to go into
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the posture is better.
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Speaker 2: Both on a physical level, the holding of let's say
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pigeon pose the external rotation we call it sleeping swan
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for three to five or six minutes, and then another
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pose like shoelace, which gomo gossana. So when we've done
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a number of poses that choice the hips for more
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dramatic ranges of motion, then when just the seated regular
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cross leg, which isn't a dramatic already has a flow
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of chi in those areas, then one's physical seat kind
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of the triangle of cross leggedness is now no longer
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feeling so rigid or discomforting for longer periods. So, yes,
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I did find because I'm not so externally rotated skeletally,
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I'm more internally rotated, which is why I like backbends
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and veros and things like that. So I really needed
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those areas to feel more juiced. And I always thought
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holding five or ten breasts because it was so excruciating, please,
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I think that enough, but not enough. It changed over
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ten years of holding those poses so briefly. Once I
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started giving them minutes rather than seconds, My sense of
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comfort in stillness grew exponentially. So there was the yes,
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the physical piece, and then on a psychological level, being
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invited to integrate physical difficulty that one is feeling uncomfortable about.
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Isn't just a physical experience. My attitudes of reactivity against
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discomfort came up, and I noticed there was impatience in there,
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and there was disappointment, and there was hope and fear
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and pain and so all of the elements of duka
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the word for dissatisfactoriness or suffering in the Buddha dharma,
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that we are meant to turn towards and learn how
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to relate to more skillfully. They were triggered within two
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to three minutes, rather than waiting fifteen or twenty minutes
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into meditation. So I felt this christness of here's my
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intention to expand my consciousness in my stillness, and then
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here's the obstacles to that showing up much sooner. And
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so my readiness to relate to them with more of
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the borrowed inside of the teachings was more in the foreground,
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so I could apply them rather than thirty minutes in
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when I'm suddenly struggling and i can't remember why I'm
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even sitting. I'm hoping the bell's going to ring, and
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yet there's thirty more minutes, you know, So kind of
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like the dragging on of an hour. To try to
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expand into maturity, it always felt so agonizing. So many
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what are now in Buddhism called glimpse practices, where especially
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in Tibetan Buddhism, short pockets often end up adding up
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to a more skillful responsiveness rather than long periods of
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dreariness or disconnect or just using your dry discipline to
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get through.
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Speaker 1: I love that. I think that's a really important point,
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because it's well in some ways, it almost for me,
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it almost looks that some of the differences between meditation
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and mindfulness a little bit. It's almost like you're learning
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to be mindful within your practice of what's surfacing, what
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you're experiencing, what your body's feeling, what thoughts are coming
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up around something that can happen in meditation. But it's
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almost like you're giving it a shorter period and adding
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something to it to see how that makes someone how
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that changes their experience definitely.
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Speaker 2: And if we can't apply the direct instructions that are
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meant to bring up and out our buddh of nature
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to actually live from, if we can't do that in
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our five minute intervals of everyday discomfort, then those hours
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end up just kind of falling away and inadvertence and
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not being so lived. So the meditative yin practice is
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a way to live into the teachings with more normalcy,
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more regularity, shorter pockets. And so when we're in the
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midst let's say, of being on a crowded subway, which
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we all wouldn't mind at this moment, that almost seems
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far away now that we're also it has to stay
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away from each other. But the sense that discomfort in
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any setting can now be a gateway into relating with
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more skill rather than just being at the mercy of
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whatever your old habits are.
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Speaker 1: How do you share that with people? Because I feel
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like that's such an important piece of this is that
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when when discomfort comes up in any of these practices,
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that it is it's there as an opportunity, right so,
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but to try and explain sometimes to have people realize
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that it's like part of the discomfort that might come
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up in your inpos or in your meditation or in
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your regular yoga practice, is something there to be looked
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at as opposed to that's uncomfortable, I should move to
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something that's more comfortable. Where's the balance between that that
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you find as far as when is something beneficial because
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it's uncomfortable, and when is something borderline on not being
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beneficial because it's uncomfortable, And how might someone be able
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to discern the difference between those things.
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Speaker 2: That is a lifetime of leaning into our capacity. Some
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days we just have more capability of integrating something difficult.
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If we're well slept, if we are feeling connected in
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our relationships and our work world. All of these things
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add up to giving us more balance with whatever we
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integrate that is out of balance. But I often invite
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people to consider that if you can move because something
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feels uncomfortable. Of course, get to a place where you
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feel like there's non risk to your exploration. But what
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if you were in a situation where you couldn't move,
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could you be curious about whether the pain is physical
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or psychological? And so play the game, so to speak,
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the opportunity of wondering before immediately or impulsively attempting to
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get away from discomfort. And that means that we have
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to give something a little time to reveal itself, because
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our assumption that something is bad because it's difficult or
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it's wrong to endure because it's painful is not always
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coming from a balanced, insightful place. So I'm going to
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want to humble myself to my expectation that this shouldn't
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be happening and wonder freshly, So the verb to pause
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for doing anything and just be able to recognize what
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is happening. And in that pausing, the attitude of softness
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rather than resistance, helps us discriminate between whether I have
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a prejudice against being uncomfortable and so I just have
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no patience for it, or whether this discomfort is something
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that I ought to attempt to ameliorate because it could
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cause harm. So pausing softening, and then literally connecting to
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what is happening right now. Let's say I'm sitting in
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my hip is starting to feel hot and hard, and
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it didn't start out that way. The sense of that
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borderline between investigation versus risk is if I don't move
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and keep wondering to the experience, it may be that
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my lack of psychological resistance actually allows che to flow
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in a place that wouldn't have otherwise unless I had moved.
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Because chi or prana, the energetic distribution within our system
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is tied to our state of consciousness, and that experiential
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insight of not making change happen, but noticing that change happens.
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When I change, my perspective begins to be an inner
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resource that I can apply to many different circumstances, not
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just the pain in my head, maybe the pain about
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a relationship with my partner. I end up being able
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to pause, soften, and connect, and then add the other
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verb listen. To be able to listen to the intelligence
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of my subtle system can then, with intention, be an
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invitation to listen to somebody else's subtle needs that they
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may not be overtly voicing. And so this is why
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I feel like yoga or insight yoga relates to not
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just the physical ability to pause and soften and connect,
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but the energetic and the emotional and then the mental
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being able to really hold our mind and see how
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it jumps around, but not actually jump around with it,
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and then how that then transfers into interpersonal and relational
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reciprocity with people, and that's what breeds intimacy and the
25:41
feeling of a life worth living, constant connection with each other.
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Speaker 1: You said a lot of really important pieces there. So
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one of the things I think was really important that
25:56
you said at the beginning of all of that was
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when we were talking about when do you know the
26:03
discomfort is almost something that is important to look at,
26:07
versus when is the discomfort something that maybe we need
26:10
to move away from? And he said something really important
26:13
where he said kind of depending on what else is
26:15
even going on at that current time. And I think
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that's a really big piece because a lot of times
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I know personally and you'll see this in almost any relationship,
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whether it's in yoga or if paying attention to any
26:28
interpersonal relationship that people have. I know, for an example,
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good litmus test for me would be my teenager. So
26:37
it'd be for example, my teenager, he's fifteen, He's doing
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what a typical teenager would do. But if I notice
26:45
that I'm being more reactive to the same sort of
26:48
things that he's doing, it's less about what he's doing
26:50
and more about why am I being more reactive to it?
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So then it comes back to me to say, well,
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what else is going on that's sort of almost adding
26:57
logs to the fire that's making my reactivity more So?
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Did I get enough sleep? Am I feeling more stressed
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about something else? Is there something else that might be
27:07
going on. There's a layer of different things, and I
27:11
would find the same thing in yoga practice. If I
27:13
found certain emotion surface, it's always a question for me
27:19
to kind of ask, why are they surfacing? What else
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might be going on? What are they telling me, what
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are they kind of directing me to? And if it
27:26
changes from time to time, even if say a specific
27:31
achiness might happen. I can give you an example.
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Speaker 2: I remember my.
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Speaker 1: Wife would have a achiness in her glute, okay, and
27:42
that would come up in certain practices and certain things,
27:45
and ultimately what it would surfaced around that was whenever
27:50
there was conversation brought up around her ex husband, she
27:55
would get literally a pain right in her ass. And
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it wasn't until that that started to kind of awareness
28:00
to it on how much that would come up, but
28:02
it would surface at different times in practice. Right, So
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just examples of sometimes when these things do come up
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and we initially think that they might just be a
28:11
physical or a structural piece of it. But if you
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really do take a look and look at how often
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in other places in your life do those symptoms surface,
28:20
that gives you a good idea of when they're may
28:23
be more workable when we can stay with them a
28:26
little bit longer and see what else comes up around it,
28:29
rather than just right away discard them as that's uncomfortable.
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I don't want to go there right. Maybe undulate with it,
28:36
you know, sit with it a little bit, come back
28:38
out of it if you need to. But it's part
28:41
of what I really love about practices like yan yoga,
28:44
or when you do stay in and you do challenge
28:47
a little bit of a discomfort that surfaces to play
28:51
with a little bit more. And I do think that
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it's at a great practice before sitting meditation, at least,
28:58
I found that too yes.
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Speaker 2: I agree. I do feel like the material that we're
29:06
working with is ever changing, as you say, and yet
29:11
the development of a quality of care that can attend
29:17
is itself what is always available, so that the pain
29:23
in the glute or the discomfort with your teenager, those
29:28
come and go. But this quality of interest that stems
29:34
from what I like to call our intelligent awareness, which
29:41
we all have as a positive resource within our human nature.
29:46
This awareness, intelligence itself is always available. And so instead
29:53
of getting so blended with the content, I want to
29:57
first align with that which has more capacity natural awareness,
30:02
and then from there less bias, so I can turn
30:05
towards what part of me is having difficulty with this
30:09
or that. Oh, there's an aspect that needs care. How
30:12
best could I give what's needed in that? Is it
30:16
a body thing? Is it emotional? Is it? Oh? I
30:18
need I'm feeling guilty I haven't connected with my mother
30:21
for a while, And then I'm translating that into this
30:24
other relationship. So we'll be able to have clearer seeing
30:28
insight when we have our main allegiance with that area
30:34
that is itself naturally clear and open, rather than with
30:39
feeling good or feeling like we are paying free.
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Speaker 1: I remember I remember doing a retreat with Pema children
30:48
once and she talked about that if you stay with
30:52
sensation without adding anything to it, without trying to make
30:55
a different being able to just sit with sensation, that
31:00
if you stay long enough with it, that it naturally
31:04
opens up to sensations of openness, awareness, and warmth that
31:09
sort of naturally from a from that alignment of being
31:13
in that place, just naturally surface. And so when you
31:16
talked about seeing things from a different perspective, it's it
31:19
wasn't about trying to make yourself see something from a
31:22
different perspective. The different perspective naturally arose from just the
31:26
practice of staying without adding anything to it, like an ember,
31:29
just burning itself out and then opening to something bigger.
31:33
Speaker 2: Beautifully shared. I agree, yes and lovely that Penna gave
31:38
you such nuggets that stayed in your memory stream so clearly.
31:43
Speaker 1: Oh that was a really big one. Is that literally
31:46
the day we came back with you get to practice
31:50
it almost the moment, the moment you get taught.
31:52
Speaker 3: At these opportunities due Yeah, And I remember at that
31:57
same time, my stepson had had said something kind of
32:02
inappropriate to my wife and my initial reaction was to
32:05
like nip it in the bud right, And luckily these
32:08
teachings were very fresh.
32:10
Speaker 1: So I sat with the feeling and it was so
32:12
interesting because there wasn't anything that tried to change it.
32:15
But literally, within probably no more than about a minute
32:18
and a half of just staying with sensation without adding
32:20
anything to it, this this natural feeling came up of thinking,
32:24
I wonder why he did that, rather than what's wrong
32:28
with you for doing it? It was this openness that
32:31
around and this awareness that there might be something bigger,
32:34
and then I could feel my heart open to actually
32:37
see right okay, And so it allowed me a difference.
32:42
It was so different, and it was not by trying
32:44
to make it happen. It just it naturally surfaced. And
32:48
then I remember asking, I said, you know, it's everything okay.
32:51
And then it opened up into a conversation that.
32:53
Speaker 2: He had rather than feeling shamed, and that's absolutely difference
32:58
in his whole system.
33:01
Speaker 1: And its yeah, And it allowed then things to actually
33:05
transition in a really beneficial way as opposed to creating,
33:09
like you said, more guilt or shame or anything along
33:12
those lines, but just don't work. And then people shut
33:14
off from hearing anything anyways. So I love that teaching
33:18
because I find it so applicable in everything. And it's
33:21
just staying without adding, So like when you're talking about
33:26
even the pauses that you would get in the end practice,
33:29
if you just stay with sensation without trying to add
33:32
the storyline or turn it into whatever we're familiar with,
33:35
but just stay with it, that's when the nuggets come up.
33:40
Speaker 2: Not trying to make something happen can actually reveal something
33:43
that is more subtly occurring that we couldn't tune into
33:47
when we were more aligned with just our course nature
33:52
of wanting to get something done. And I think that
33:55
happens with yoga students. You have your time frame and
33:59
it's limited, and you have certain goals or ideas of
34:02
what you want from your practice, and the yin setting
34:08
allows some of that to fall away, and the meditative
34:12
arts of tuning in to what is here underneath what's
34:17
happening is rather than trying to make the part that
34:21
is wanting something to happen be more disciplined or idealized,
34:27
just shift into the place where you're already curious and open,
34:32
like you did by pausing before relating to your steps.
34:36
Making that shift becomes more habituated if you have a
34:40
daily practice, and then if you extend that daily practice
34:43
into longer retreats, where then it gets kind of like
34:46
the hardwire gets changed, so that becomes more normative. And
34:50
that's what we want. And that's why through the changes
34:53
of life, especially when things are difficult for people like
34:56
right now, practice is essential because how you're relating to
35:00
what's happening all of us collectively is how we are
35:03
together midwives for each other to birth this next experience
35:10
on this planet of taking more care of that which
35:13
is vulnerable, the earth itself and those who are more compromised.
35:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, well said in your book, this is a good
35:22
segue into you do talk kind of specifically about three
35:26
benefits of mindfulness in the yun yoga and briefly and
35:30
I'm hoping you can maybe elaborate on them, but we
35:32
talk about are you talk about in your book habits
35:35
diminishing negative aggressive affliction diffusing and then our authentic nature
35:41
being revealed. I think those are really important pieces that
35:44
people can grasp onto and I'm wondering if you can
35:47
break those down maybe a little.
35:48
Speaker 2: Bit sure with any spiritual practice, there are short term
35:57
and then long term benefits, and what you've just tuned
36:00
into are the long term benefits. This is when there's
36:04
been skillful, enthusiastic, sustained practice. So we can expect in
36:15
one season of life, or even within a few years,
36:19
to feel like some of our more distractable habits are
36:24
going to completely dissipate, but over time when they are
36:30
given a safe and healthy environment in which to be
36:34
embraced in rather than pushed away. So this is an
36:40
aspect of internal family systems that I find extremely heart opening,
36:47
is that all aspects of our nature are comprised of
36:52
energetic gifts, even if currently they are operating in a
37:00
more burdened and inappropriate manner. So even our distractability simply
37:07
means there are a lot of things we care about,
37:10
and over time, if we know how to bring ourselves
37:15
into a field in which we ask internally, what aspect
37:23
of me least wants to meditate right now, and so
37:28
a part of us that feels like running out and
37:30
playing in the waves as a surfer, let's say we
37:35
can then rather than lock that part down and say no,
37:38
you need to be a meditator, not a surfer, we
37:40
can invite that part that sometimes distracts us whenever we're
37:44
not surfing, we can invite that part to reveal its
37:49
underlying wish to be out in nature and flowing, and say,
37:55
right now, we're going to flow in a different way,
37:58
and I'm going to give you the opportunity to do
38:00
that later. So it's a kind of inner negotiation with
38:04
younger parts of us, playful parts of us. The scholar
38:09
on us who just wants to read, and yet for
38:11
weeks we've been too busy to open a book, And
38:14
so we invite in our meditation field that invitation to
38:20
look at the multiplicity of our nature and suggests that
38:24
each aspect, in order to be integrated, will need the
38:27
respect of being invited to the feast table and being
38:32
listened to. So if I can listen to different aspects,
38:35
even my distracted part, when I'm in my meditation, the
38:39
tendency is then we are less likely to either fight
38:46
from that part trying to distract us the whole time
38:50
we're attempting to meditate, and we're less likely to hate
38:54
aspects of ourselfs. So the inner war begin to shift
39:02
to a kind of inner picnic and some people want
39:08
to get up, you know, and play frisbee, and some
39:10
people want to sit and eat, and some people want
39:12
to be quiet and read, and some people want to
39:13
listen to music. It's like there's room for all of
39:15
us in here. Is how I feel inside myself. I
39:19
have a wide birth, so to speak, of a wide
39:24
embrace of all my parts, and not no one else
39:28
has that white of birth. You know. Other people get
39:30
more triggered by each of us because they want us
39:34
to reflect the part they feel best with. So it's
39:37
our job to be the you know, the I think
39:44
of that story when I was young, of the woman
39:47
in who had the house with a huge shoe and
39:50
allowed all the kids into her field. So to be
39:55
that kind of ancient grandmother nature to all of our parts.
39:58
So over time there's less experience of dissipation and more
40:06
vivaciousness because all our parts are welcome and they all
40:09
have gifts, and we start. I know from direct experience,
40:16
I have less than antagonism towards the ways in which
40:21
I'm extremely diverse. Sometimes I'm extremely serious and focused and intense,
40:28
and other times completely silly and relaxed and childlike and
40:33
everything in between. So that's that first feature. If that
40:38
psychological component is part of what we call our yoga practice,
40:42
and we don't just lock ourselves down to be this
40:45
meditator or this person who's trying to get third series
40:50
of Astronga downs so that we can be gifted the
40:54
stamp to be a teacher, you know, if we let
40:57
go of the burden of expectation of who we should
41:00
be and tune in to the diversity already here, there's
41:08
a softening and a a momentum towards more creativity. So
41:17
that's that first one that dissipation ends up naturally gathering.
41:24
And so each day as I check into what parts
41:28
are here, is it the playful, is it the studios?
41:30
Is it the parental? Is it the child? You know,
41:33
there's the sense that those more in the foreground can
41:36
get the attention they need, those feeling more impoverished can
41:44
share what's needed. And so there's this sense then that
41:47
the negativity of trying to get our attention through criticizing ourselves,
41:53
even the inner judge that can be quite ferocious in
42:00
the malevolence in which the self talk gets pressurized inside,
42:07
that too has become quite workable. So it's something that
42:11
I love to offer other people to have skill with,
42:14
and it is a process of education. How do we
42:18
talk to ourselves and then how do we talk to
42:20
those parts that tend to get belligerent? And so I
42:25
have lots of ways for myself and ways that I share,
42:29
and when I'm teaching, even while people are in the imposes,
42:32
it's a great place to have a psychological work become
42:37
more integrated, so our negativity becomes less feared and more
42:43
an opportunity to attend. So I'm not afraid of negativity
42:47
with this than what I sometimes call the yoga community
42:51
harmony addiction, as if we have to color everything with rainbows.
42:56
You know, I really I want to go towards the
42:59
place is that are shadowed and dark and most difficult
43:04
and most raw and unclean, because that's often where the
43:09
light has not shown. And I'm asking in my daily practice,
43:13
show me what I need to see next? Where have
43:15
I not been yet able to tread? And is today
43:20
a good day for that? Do I have the courage
43:22
for that? And so I don't have to force myself.
43:25
I will make those choices appropriately, And so those are
43:29
very much ways of growing our personality structure so that
43:36
we have more viability with more settings and more kinds
43:41
of people. And so I'm a very different person than
43:44
I was two years ago or ten years ago. You
43:48
don't have to stay as the disconnected or unkind person
43:53
you lived with or felt like you grew up having
43:57
that part of your personality harm people at times. Then
44:03
the third thing you mentioned is the open dimensions of
44:06
our nature when we're not so burdened by feeling our
44:16
our expression is something that others haven't liked. You know,
44:21
we're such attachment creatures, so we're managing interpersonal suffering all
44:27
the time. In our quiet moments when we're with people,
44:31
we're so much consumed by how's this going to look?
44:35
If you take that quotient out and you become more
44:41
relaxed with Now that I'm more relaxed with myself, I'm
44:45
more relaxed with what you see in me and all
44:48
the ways in which you might present. I'm not needing
44:51
to differentiate whether like or dislike is in there. That
44:54
doesn't even come up anymore. It's just enjoying you and
44:59
your expression or not enjoying, and that's okay too. And
45:03
so the open dimensions become more naturally accessible in ordinary
45:10
moments over time. At first there's a hunger to find them,
45:16
and brief glimpses will satisfy from our initial retreat times.
45:22
But eventually there's this sense that our quality of brightness
45:29
and of intelligence and wakefulness is something that isn't so
45:37
needing to be searched for, and it's not so special.
45:40
It is the essence of all of us, and so
45:43
it becomes a generative feature as we live the day
45:52
to live from there rather than to practice in order
45:54
to get to there well.
45:58
Speaker 1: And that's almost even then nature of yin versus young,
46:02
I feel like, especially in North American society, where most
46:06
of a lot of what we do is very young based,
46:08
and it has been very young based. It's sort of
46:10
make things happen, go, go, go, whatnot. And from a
46:14
Yen perspective, it's it's more allow stuff to naturally surface
46:19
if you don't try to work too hard to.
46:21
Speaker 2: Do it right. When you're holding a pose for long periods,
46:28
it's about coming in to see what arises as you
46:31
stay attentive, whereas young you go out into generating more
46:38
poses because you don't hold as long and more capacity
46:41
within those poses and there's always more to learn about trigonassana,
46:46
and so yin is really simplifying. We do less kinds
46:50
of poses, less variations, more opening with curiosity to what's
46:55
going on inside this experience rather than where do I
46:59
need to get to while I'm here? So briefly, and
47:03
that is a whole other side of our psyche that
47:06
becomes available. That open flow of attentiveness, flowing with what's
47:13
happening rather than producing and consuming, is something that we
47:19
are all i think collectively, having to move towards in
47:25
this worldly retreat time we're all in right now.
47:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I think that's what's also making people
47:33
so uncomfortable is that what they normally would be doing,
47:38
they're not able to do. So there is this almost
47:41
forced pause a little bit for people to do something with,
47:45
and they're trying to figure out what can they fill
47:47
it with.
47:48
Speaker 2: And I get it. I mean, remember your first retreat.
47:52
It's uncomfortable, and that uncomfortableness and looking in the mirror
47:56
is a necessary part of evolving to more mature. So
48:00
it's not something to rob our children of or people
48:04
who haven't faced that aspect of themselves yet, or to
48:10
embarrass them for experiencing. It is uncomfortable to stop doing
48:14
and simply tune into being present. But the momentum to
48:19
enjoying the being and not having to do something with
48:23
what we discover there that begins to generate its own
48:28
inner momentum itself. Yeah.
48:32
Speaker 1: I've mentioned this before in when a different podcast interview
48:36
I did with a quantum physicist, nam doctor Ahmaic Goswami,
48:41
and he has a really neat practice where he talks
48:43
about do b do b doo b doo be do,
48:45
and he says, you have to do and then you
48:48
have to be, and you have to go back and forth,
48:51
and a lot of cultures, some cultures are much more
48:54
do and some cultures are much more be. So if
48:57
you're much more do your go, go go, but you're
48:59
never slowing down enough to get the insights and the
49:03
aha moments and the he would call quantum creativity where
49:07
we literally connect back to that bigger picture or back
49:11
to source or however we want to describe as.
49:13
Speaker 2: Zero point field of pure potentia.
49:16
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and so I feel like right now the opportunity
49:21
in all of it is that we are in a
49:23
culture that is very do go, go go kind of culture.
49:27
We do have a big pause that we can take
49:31
advantage of as much as possible at this point, and
49:34
it's just then finding tools and ways to start to
49:38
navigate that with a little bit more ease and grace,
49:40
I think.
49:42
Speaker 2: And I do feel like being able to sustain the
49:47
pause longer than we normally would and if that means
49:51
like I was meditating with my daughter this morning, she's
49:54
in her late twenties, and asked her, how long do
49:57
you want to pause? She said minutes? And I said, perfect,
50:02
perfect amount of time. Let's pause for six minutes, and
50:06
let's simply listen around and inside, and then we ended
50:10
it with a chant and so mini pockets and then
50:14
we can clean our closets out and cook more and
50:19
take walks and listen to stories and podcasts and all
50:23
of these things. Yeah, that's fine to do. But if
50:25
there is no regenerative place that we tap into, this
50:31
kind of primordial field of pure creativity, we end up
50:35
feeling drained and we don't even know that we're depleted.
50:39
And so I think that stark reality is being shown
50:43
to people who didn't know, and that's part of the
50:47
process of growing up. Yeah.
50:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing that jumped out of me when you
50:52
were talking about the first part of the mindfulness and
50:55
finding this capacity to sort of stay with those pieces
50:59
of our that we're not so comfortable with. I remember
51:03
it once described to me. It was like sitting down
51:05
and having tea with a dear old friend that you've
51:08
known for your entire life, that you love dearly, but
51:12
you also drives you completely crazy.
51:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And that's the yin and the young I mean,
51:19
can we open our hands and feel the polarities within
51:23
ourselves and within everyone and situations. There is an opportunity
51:29
here as well to grieve our losses more fully. And
51:34
there is a lot of sadness going on right in
51:38
the midst of this pause that some of us it's
51:42
a holiday, and others of us it's deep, painful sickness
51:45
and not easy to be next to or not able
51:48
to get to those who are in quarantine, who are
51:53
very sick. And the collective capacity to hold that pain
51:58
in our hearts and breed in with the Tom Glenn
52:02
practice to you know, as I'm experiencing this, I know
52:05
others are experiencing this too. To breed that out has
52:11
a fact, and I think we are in a global
52:15
opportunity to feel like this pause and us all breathing
52:19
together can be of benefit and it can cause harm,
52:25
and which direction do we want to flow so we
52:29
can make new choices. It is a rebirth for sure, Sarah.
52:35
Speaker 1: One thing that you've mentioned a couple of times in
52:37
this and just for people that aren't too familiar with it,
52:39
but around the concept of chi and prana and how
52:44
that interacts with yoga asana, how do you blend those
52:48
worlds together.
52:53
Speaker 2: There are terms that relate to the energetic field that
52:59
is inhabiting everything physical from the Chinese versus the Indian system,
53:05
and there are many overlaps, and the words can be
53:09
used interchangeably, especially when we're talking about how animating energy
53:17
stimulates the physical world. So at that place where energy
53:21
becomes materiality, that's really what chi means. But what's behind
53:26
the chi is even more essence energy, and in Chinese
53:30
the word for that is jing, but prana wol also,
53:33
depending on the contextual nature, mean essence, and then even
53:38
behind that, in Chinese languaging, you would talk about the
53:43
spirit behind the essence energy, and that would be shn.
53:47
Prana could also mean spirit, and so one term within
53:52
the Indian system may be delineated out in gradations of
53:57
energetic pulsation from core two, more and more and more subtle,
54:02
and so everything is so contextual. So depending on who
54:07
I'm in front of, it's someone just new to the concepts,
54:09
I'll say, you might hear me interchange these terms to
54:12
mean the energetic force field that creates the health and
54:17
vitality of this system. It is in the atmosphere that
54:22
we breathe, it is in the crystals that we would hold,
54:27
so it's in very solid rock form, and it's in
54:30
the invisible vitality of the spatial realm of the earth itself.
54:37
So to become familiar with the unseen dimensions and how
54:42
they operate within us is one of the great gifts
54:46
of the yogic or spiritual traditions that I feel gives
54:52
us internal gifts or powers that even when physical life
54:59
is discipating. Of course it does, because it's in constant metamorphosis.
55:06
We aren't so based in just our tangible reality. We
55:09
know we also live in a different dimension, like a
55:13
dream state as well. So I do feel like a
55:17
yoga practice is different than going to a stretch class
55:20
or an exercise class. It is an invitation to live
55:24
from our subtle dimensions, and it can become more and
55:29
more vivid the more we tap in, and not just
55:33
wishful thinking or a fantasies of ancient practitioners through the texts.
55:41
It can be a lived reality and we can start
55:44
to feel the interconnected flow that we are all within
55:49
the fabric of so yoga postures affect how we were
55:57
talking about pigeon. That can affect how our liver is
56:00
able to digest facts, and how we relate to irritation
56:08
and anger, which then relates to how we are with
56:11
our loved one, which relates to whether or not we
56:13
feel ultimately connected to others. So we can come into
56:18
the microcosm. But I also love remembering the many layers
56:22
everything is interconnected within.
56:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a really neat concept. And I
56:30
think now we're even being able to explain it more
56:32
in physiological language and stuff too. And I mean, this
56:37
is stuff has been around for a long time, and
56:40
I know from Chinese medicine in practice, I use Chinese
56:44
medicine all the time. So we'll look at using acupuncture
56:48
and even all of the fascial systems all of the
56:51
When you just look at fascial chains in the body,
56:54
they all interrelate with different meridians that have been explained
56:58
in Chinese medicine for a long time. When you are
57:00
in different postures working those fascial chains will in some
57:04
ways also be working with the lines of energy that
57:08
run through those fascial chains. And like you had said,
57:11
even emotions. I mean, for thousands of years they would
57:15
talk about emotions being housed in certain meridians. You're so
57:19
it's almost like when you're I think you had mentioned
57:21
eve at the very beginning, when you're doing a practice,
57:24
there's so many layers of things that are that are
57:28
happening in the body that they might not even be
57:31
consciously aware of, but it might be why you finish
57:34
a practice and maybe irritability has been stirred up or.
57:39
Speaker 2: And you've just been doing hip openers exactly. Yes, And
57:43
I think when you learn how these maps fit on
57:47
top of each other, like transparencies like the Chinese map
57:50
over the Yogic, you just have a clearer view of
57:55
how to relate to yourself personally and to make your practice.
57:58
Then for the practice who's actually practicing, Yeah.
58:03
Speaker 1: And it always gives me so much more validity in
58:06
how important these things are. When you see them overlap
58:09
in different traditions, you sort of see, oh, well they
58:12
were talking about this a long time ago. Oh my gosh,
58:14
they were saying the same thing in a slightly different way.
58:16
It's just again, it's it's that these things are important
58:19
and they have all of these different layers of benefit
58:22
to them, right.
58:25
Speaker 2: I mean, holding poses tends to go more to the thicker, denser,
58:30
less viscous connective tissues that we call ligaments, but now
58:34
they're called floating fulcrumbs because there are no independent ligaments.
58:37
They are myofascial trains that connect to the diaphragm, which
58:43
then is connecting to the vagus nerve, which then connects
58:45
to the parasympathetic response and whether or not you're feeling safe,
58:51
you know. So yeah, these inter relationships, I feel like
58:55
give us this rather than information for information sake, it
59:01
can give us this sense of relaxation that personal exploration
59:08
through yoga, which I think is one of the greatest
59:10
gifts of the yoga community, is that we take time
59:15
to understand more through our own personal experience. So it's
59:19
not just philosophy read from other people's experience, and through that,
59:24
I feel like we have the ability to relate to
59:29
how as you mentioned, the pain in your head may
59:33
also relate to the fact that your grandfather may have
59:37
been an alcoholic, and that then created a certain way
59:42
that your liver has some dysfunction, which means you get
59:45
more irritable on the tennis court than your partner because
59:50
liver and irritability, and then you would have more trouble
59:53
and hip openers and be uncomfortable when you sit to meditate.
59:57
And when those links are connected, there's lessons of what's
59:59
wrong with me and more understanding of, oh, this is
1:00:03
the garden I came in with, this is the fabric
1:00:07
of this particular trajectory of my personal life. How do
1:00:10
I best care for this? And when I can care
1:00:13
for this, I'm more able to care for others. I'm
1:00:17
less distracted by being unwell and then inappropriate with other people.
1:00:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, Sarah. I want to be respectful of your
1:00:27
time with everything. There's a couple more questions if we
1:00:29
have time, I'd like to go through. I think one
1:00:32
of the ones we kind of just briefly got into
1:00:34
it a little bit, but I want to give you
1:00:35
an opportunity to talk about it a bit, because I
1:00:38
know one of the things that comes up when people
1:00:40
talk about yin yoga is sometimes that you have to
1:00:43
be careful because it might overstretch ligaments and create damage.
1:00:47
And there's a certain body in the community that sometimes
1:00:52
will talk about that. I just want to get your
1:00:54
perspective on that and how you view that, and if
1:00:57
there's anybody that does need to be more careful, who
1:01:00
benefits best from it, and addressing specifically around that with
1:01:05
ligaments and overstretching.
1:01:09
Speaker 2: Well. I understand the trepidation for people who haven't heard
1:01:16
more in depth descriptions from a physiological and then energetic
1:01:22
perspective of the benefits from both Chinese medicine and from
1:01:27
how we are in training the ligament tissue through repetition.
1:01:32
How there would be this worry that we might create
1:01:36
lax ligaments or strain the ligaments because ligaments don't stretch
1:01:39
so well like muscles, that you don't have the same
1:01:41
fluid content. I address all of this in my trainings
1:01:44
in depth. I spend only a little bit of time
1:01:48
on it at this time in my teaching evolution because
1:01:52
there's so many people talking about it, like Burning Clark
1:01:56
and Paul Grilly so beautifully, and that is so much
1:01:59
of their focus and their books. And I spoke about
1:02:03
it for ten years and then just moved on. And
1:02:08
if someone is sure of it or feels unsafe, I
1:02:12
always recommend less is more. Do less of your range
1:02:17
of motion, then check over days how that felt before
1:02:20
you continue. I use props and muscular engagement to protect
1:02:25
compromise tissue. I'm very interested in longevity in the body,
1:02:29
protecting the knees, I love to run downhill, protecting the
1:02:33
hips and the spine. Those are the three areas that
1:02:36
people are most concerned about. So the way in which
1:02:40
someone comes into a pose needs to be appropriate within
1:02:45
their own ranges of motion, so they find an appropriate edge.
1:02:48
I talk about what appropriate means in terms of discerning
1:02:53
sensations as risky versus just discomfort and invite people to
1:03:00
tune into their own inner cues and then understand that
1:03:05
psychological stress when we're uncertain or feel unsafe, is the
1:03:09
main inhibitor to chief low. And if our main incentive
1:03:14
in holding these poses is to flush the meridians that
1:03:17
flow through the fascia, then will want to be as
1:03:20
relaxed as possible while we stay in these shapes, So
1:03:26
the more someone can hear and feel like it makes
1:03:28
sense to them how to do this safely and skillfully,
1:03:32
and then to check it out for themselves and gradually
1:03:34
come in over time. They may then discover there were
1:03:38
benefits to lubricating the joint sites because of the repair response,
1:03:48
that the synoviial capsules can become more supple. You have
1:03:54
seen this even in elderly bodies, and my own in
1:03:59
the aging process here that I'm in now, having practiced
1:04:02
in for decades, I know that having disdisplacement in my spine,
1:04:06
I keep it juiced through the end back thends of
1:04:09
seal and saddle. So there's this trust in my own practice,
1:04:16
and then in the way in which I share in
1:04:23
in depth teachings with people and then take their questions
1:04:26
along the way. And then if my level of expertise,
1:04:33
which is limited compared to people who are anatomous, does
1:04:36
not suffice, then I definitely keep if they're interested, keep
1:04:41
directing them to explore more until they're satisfied. Otherwise I
1:04:45
don't feel like ever defending the practice or arguing about
1:04:50
it or trying to convince people nothing is for everyone.
1:04:54
Certain poses aren't good for me during certain periods from
1:04:58
my SI joint. So there's it's an in depth conversation
1:05:04
and one in which I want to honor people's fears
1:05:08
and sense of risk. But it doesn't mean that it
1:05:10
can't be done skillfully and safely, and I would just
1:05:17
recommend that people seek out a skillful teacher who they trust,
1:05:20
who's willing to engage with them about it.
1:05:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like and a lot of these things,
1:05:27
I think inherently there's a lot of stuff that's really
1:05:30
very few things are completely bad or completely good, and
1:05:33
I think one of the key points with yoga in
1:05:35
general is to is to explore yourself and to reconnect
1:05:41
with what things make you feel like. It's almost like,
1:05:45
I think sometimes we've been so conditioned to sort of
1:05:48
not trust the body, to listen to sources outside of
1:05:53
the body, that we really have become disconnected from it.
1:05:56
And to me, a lot of it is if you're
1:05:58
doing something and you're feeling value from it and you're
1:06:02
doing an introspection around it, so you're not just trying
1:06:07
to fool yourself, but you're kind of looking at it.
1:06:09
I think of yoga in a lot of ways like
1:06:11
I think of healthcare, and I want people to be
1:06:15
reconnected to what ultimately works for them and doesn't work
1:06:18
for them, and to start to build that innate trust again,
1:06:21
because I feel like that's a part of where we're
1:06:23
disconnected and part of where I think yoga has such
1:06:25
a value is in the introspection of reconnecting back with
1:06:29
self again.
1:06:31
Speaker 2: And maybe this is something that the feminine perspective has
1:06:36
to bring to this very ancient masculine tradition of self
1:06:42
care through the body is in coming into a system
1:06:46
that spoke nothing to the idea that women's hormonal changes
1:06:50
will need to be addressed differently. Women who are in
1:06:54
menopause can definitely benefit from practicing differently when we are pregnant,
1:07:01
for instance, it is not a disease and being able
1:07:06
to trust our own investigation and then breed experiential insight
1:07:13
that we pass along from that. I had an interest
1:07:17
in doing that when I was pregnant all along. And
1:07:19
even the idea of not during in inversions during your
1:07:22
menstruation cycle, like who made that a rule? This idea
1:07:27
of absolutes to actually impose yes or no answers on
1:07:33
something that's more like, I don't know, Let's see who's asking,
1:07:38
and what are the ramifications and what is the question
1:07:44
going towards? Versus are we just trying to figure something
1:07:49
out and move on rather than being able to have
1:07:51
this grow the next question. So I'm more interested in
1:07:56
living into questions rather than just finding quick answers. And
1:08:00
with the yin yoga, there are a lot of people
1:08:02
who have just decided no, it's wrong, it's bad, and
1:08:05
they tell their students that, And I feel that's doing
1:08:08
a disservice to the yoga community because it's clearly benefited
1:08:12
a lot of people when Paul and I were teaching
1:08:15
this in the nineties late nineties, and then it got
1:08:18
so popular after that. It's global, so clearly there must
1:08:23
be some benefit. Otherwise it would have just died off.
1:08:28
It didn't. It did the opposite.
1:08:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the benefits are often on multiple levels. So
1:08:35
sometimes you can talk about one level that you want
1:08:38
to focus on and you forget all of the other
1:08:40
pieces of the totality of it.
1:08:42
Speaker 2: So some people come as for a meditative practice, some
1:08:46
people come for their stress levels, some people come to
1:08:50
help their lower backs, and so there is something for
1:08:53
everyone in these different dimensions. And someone who's just coming
1:08:56
for physical who's got a lot of preconditions and compromised area, Yeah,
1:09:01
working one on one is going to be best or
1:09:03
at least hearing a lot of modifications so that they
1:09:07
can feel the support while they're holding poses and then
1:09:10
not ever ever be forced to assume that everybody is
1:09:14
going to feel and experience it the same. And that's
1:09:16
been Paul's message since the beginning, which is why I
1:09:20
adore the way he teaches. For that reason, you make
1:09:23
sure everybody knows that we are all unique in our
1:09:26
skeletons and in the way we're experiencing these practices. Yeah.
1:09:30
Speaker 1: Absolutely. One other thing was I just wanted to clarify
1:09:36
some differences between yan yoga and the art of yan Yoga,
1:09:43
which I interviewed poly Zinc, which is sort of the
1:09:48
founder of what he calls the art of yan Yoga,
1:09:51
and I think that's had some different transitions over the years,
1:09:54
but they're very different. And so I also why I
1:09:57
wanted to talk to you specifically is just because I
1:09:59
had talked with him earlier and got that perspective and
1:10:02
that was very different than what I was familiar with
1:10:05
from before, from what I knew of yan yoga. So
1:10:08
I think there's been a bit of a history that
1:10:10
things have kind of shifted and changed and whatnot. But
1:10:13
I just wanted to get your perspective from where those
1:10:16
overlapped and where they were different.
1:10:19
Speaker 2: You know, I can't speak to that in any depth
1:10:22
because I don't know Polly and I don't know what
1:10:25
he teaches. And my main influence was with Paul Grilly,
1:10:34
and I know Paul early on was influenced by what
1:10:39
Paulie was offering at that time. But then as everything does,
1:10:43
it morphs, it becomes your own, it expands, you add
1:10:46
to it. I teach very different than Paul at this point,
1:10:50
and we honor those differences and feel like it is
1:10:55
a broad Chinese term, not owned by anyone. It just
1:10:59
reflects a particular dimension of experience, whether physical, energetic, or spiritual.
1:11:05
And so there is uh a way in which it
1:11:11
got popularized because of Paul's skill, And before that, all
1:11:16
I knew that Polyzinc was teaching was dallist yoga. So
1:11:19
with the popularization of the term, people started using it
1:11:23
for all, you know, aerial yan yoga and I don't
1:11:26
know what that is either. Hot in yoga, I don't know.
1:11:31
I know that when something becomes more recognizable and we
1:11:36
use the term because it will draw more students, and
1:11:38
then we have our own definitions of what that is.
1:11:41
And so that's as much as I can sider.
1:11:46
Speaker 1: It makes me think I did prior to doing yoga.
1:11:49
I did martial arts for a long time, and it
1:11:53
almost makes me think about how martial arts about it.
1:11:57
You know, they evolved, certain things were called kung fu,
1:12:00
and then all of a sudden, it's like everybody was
1:12:03
taking pieces of something and then sort of focusing and
1:12:07
making it more in a lot of ways. Right, that's
1:12:09
sort of what naturally happens. I think these we start
1:12:13
with something, people like parts of it, they see sort
1:12:16
of where that would make sense within the world that
1:12:18
they do, and add their own pieces to it, and
1:12:20
that's what just keeps allowing things to evolve and mature
1:12:23
and give more options for things.
1:12:25
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I wasn't practicing daois yoga, but I liked
1:12:28
the yen piece, so I brought that in and then
1:12:32
I brought my Buddhist background to that, so that morphed
1:12:35
it it again and years later, I was introduced to
1:12:38
Daoist teachers and chigung and then brought that to it
1:12:42
from my prior background. So yes, the morphing, the cross pollination,
1:12:48
the non ownership. But if something is a benefit and
1:12:51
you're attracted to it, great, If things become more divisive,
1:12:57
I think then it's a problem. And the yoga canmmunity
1:13:01
has had that potential to try to create some marketable
1:13:06
corner of the world, and I have stayed away from
1:13:10
that and the competition and more. Just have an open
1:13:14
door policy. Go where you're attracted and where you feel
1:13:16
you it's what you're learning is of benefit and is
1:13:20
more heart opening rather than closing.
1:13:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's great for people to have really
1:13:27
try different things out see what works for you, and
1:13:30
also be open to letting that evolve naturally, because sometimes
1:13:34
what worked for you for a period of time evolves
1:13:37
to something different. I think of it no different than
1:13:40
with diets. It's like sometimes people are in a certain
1:13:42
diet for a long time and all of a sudden
1:13:44
it's not working for them the same way anymore. They
1:13:46
need to modify what they're doing, and it's just again
1:13:49
an introspection to pay attention to when things need to shift,
1:13:52
and be open enough and willing to adjust your beliefs
1:13:57
a little bit.
1:13:58
Speaker 2: Sometimes with Paul Grilly and I, I send my students
1:14:02
often to his community and his trainings, and they're happy
1:14:06
and elated to get time with him, which is getting
1:14:10
more and more difficult. And yet it doesn't always cross
1:14:14
pollinate the other direction because I also bring in a
1:14:17
psychological dimension of inquiry, and even on retreats, do one
1:14:21
on one sessions with everybody. And if that's not your interest,
1:14:24
of course, and if I don't feel like the person
1:14:27
you resonate with, then that would naturally not be a
1:14:30
good fit. So if you want to learn anatomy, it
1:14:33
can be more generalized. If you want to unpack some
1:14:37
of your childhood difficulties, it's going to need to be
1:14:40
more particularized. So we understand that difference, and that has
1:14:46
not diminished our relationship in the least. I highly recommend
1:14:51
you interview Paul.
1:14:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to have to try and reach out
1:14:55
to him as well. They're a last question, and thank
1:14:59
you so much for your time. At this point in time,
1:15:02
we are Ratesmack in the middle of the COVID nineteen outbreak,
1:15:07
everybody is being quarantined. There's a lot of worry. There's
1:15:11
a lot of fear and panic, not just around health,
1:15:14
but I think around security and safety. Financially, there's lots
1:15:18
of stuff going on. How could people at this point,
1:15:22
given the practice with insight Yoga, what would you say
1:15:26
would be some steps that people can start to do
1:15:28
to try to assist in moving into more of a
1:15:32
place of common clarity as best as we can at
1:15:34
this time.
1:15:39
Speaker 2: Limit one's exposure to the news, especially first thing in
1:15:44
the morning. I think it can be very helpful to
1:15:49
create a sacred place, even if you live with lots
1:15:51
of people in one room, and just say this corner
1:15:56
is for people to come and connect to the spiritual
1:15:59
realms and self led practice and take what you've learned
1:16:04
so far, use some of the online teachings if you
1:16:07
don't feel like you have a wealth of things to
1:16:10
draw from already, and definitely spend time physically energetically with
1:16:16
pronian to strengthen your energy, body and your immune system,
1:16:19
as well as meditation, and then the invitation to ask
1:16:28
for support from the beings in the invisible realms, ask
1:16:34
for guidance, ask for the energies of the trees and
1:16:40
of nature to bring in the resources for simple situations
1:16:48
that can feel no longer so able to be navigated,
1:16:52
like having enough income or having enough community if you're
1:17:00
having to quarantine by yourself, that sense of really putting
1:17:06
oneself in a receptive space and recognizing that we are
1:17:11
intimately interconnected with Earth herself, with nature, with treaties and
1:17:17
with each other will feed some of those more hardened
1:17:22
and tension filled places in the heart space and in
1:17:28
terms of the health of your body, if your heart
1:17:31
can be aligned softly with a sense of care and
1:17:38
with receptivity to receiving creative messages from unknown dimensions, this
1:17:45
will go a long way, even if and when you
1:17:48
do get sick and healing a relationship to sickness, old age,
1:17:52
and yes to death is something we need to start
1:17:56
now if we haven't already, because this has always been
1:18:00
with us. It's just now more directly in all of
1:18:05
our fields. And I feel very at peace with the
1:18:08
idea of death, and this is something I have in
1:18:12
my own inner stream of practice, worked with now daily
1:18:16
for decades. So the fear is just directing us to
1:18:21
the places that need more skillful attention. So practice open
1:18:27
one's heart and then once one has taken time for that,
1:18:31
and I would do that daily, no less than a
1:18:32
half an hour a day. And if you can end
1:18:35
the day that way again, is then to wonder if
1:18:38
you're not deeply ill right now, how can I help
1:18:44
just throughout the day? Is walking through the house, how
1:18:46
can I help talk to the flowers, open the window,
1:18:50
let the birds song in. If you don't have a balcony,
1:18:54
if you have no birds around, you can play the
1:18:58
sound of nature on ace. But remember the renewable nature.
1:19:03
Even after we die. We are then energy beings who
1:19:08
are ultimately without the bounds of a body, and all
1:19:13
we are is love. So remembering to recognize that truth
1:19:21
so we can be part of the cure.
1:19:23
Speaker 1: Nice beautifully said Sarah. Where can people learn more about
1:19:28
the work that you're doing? Any I know right now
1:19:31
things are hard to say for timing on retreats and stuff.
1:19:35
But where can people learn more information about you and
1:19:38
the different programs that you offer.
1:19:41
Speaker 2: Just my website Sarah powers dot com. I have everything
1:19:46
on there in terms of my schedule and lead retreats
1:19:49
with my husband, tie and trainings. They're global, they're on hold,
1:19:53
of course, but they start back up in the fall
1:19:56
and there will be some there. I already have some
1:19:59
online material and we'll be making more as the months
1:20:02
go on.
1:20:03
Speaker 1: Super I'll make sure that we've got links to all
1:20:05
of that in the show notes at the end here,
1:20:07
so people can get a hold of you. Seric, Thank
1:20:10
you so much, really real honor to have you on
1:20:13
the show.
1:20:14
Speaker 2: Thank you. It's been a treat to connect with you
1:20:16
and converse. Thank you for your work and for all
1:20:19
the people you bring to everybody else in your wonderful inquiries.
1:20:23
Speaker 1: Oh it's my pleasure, my pleasure. Well that was awesome.
1:20:29
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1:20:31
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1:20:34
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