Latest / Dots and Dreams / Episode 11: She's Not Ready for Her Kid to Leave. And She's Not Sure Who She'll Be When He Does

Transcript

Episode 11: She's Not Ready for Her Kid to Leave. And She's Not Sure Who She'll Be When He Does · Dots and Dreams

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I went to visit the college where he's going and he went up front to ask a question
0:05
SPEAKER_01: and I stayed and cried and like put my seat down in my bag because I was like,
0:10
SPEAKER_01: I can't be that mom that's like sobbing and she's letting her kid go
0:13
SPEAKER_01: because I was never that mom.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: But I still have a purpose.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: I need to come home.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Someone's waiting for me.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: I have to come home and make dinner.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Like there is that purpose.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Whereas what am I going to do in three months?
0:27
SPEAKER_01: No one cares when I come home anymore.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: That's Julia Brightman.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: She's one of my oldest friends, and she's about to become an empty nester.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Dots and Dreams,
0:40
SPEAKER_00: a podcast about the real,
0:42
SPEAKER_00: vulnerable, and my sometimes-in-the-moment stories of life transitions.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm Jenny Sidorova, and I've been an immigrant, marketer, mother, and a serial reinventor.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: And today I'm talking to Julia and what she's feeling and going through
0:58
SPEAKER_00: in this particular moment of waiting for the big life change of becoming
1:03
SPEAKER_00: an empty nester.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Her second kid, Ethan, is leaving for college in three months from the date of this recording.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: And you'll hear from our conversation.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: She shares a glimpse into what that waiting is like.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: The knowing it's coming and not being able to stop it.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: And whether you're a parent or not,
1:23
SPEAKER_00: I think you're going to recognize something in her because most of us have felt
1:28
SPEAKER_00: the life transitions that are on the horizon long before they became real.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I want to start by just asking you
1:39
SPEAKER_00: to share how long have we known each other because it's fascinating and also one
1:44
SPEAKER_00: of my favorite things about us.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Known each other as long as you have been alive, my dear.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: We met because our dads were best friends and so I find it really funny.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: You always have your like childhood friends by virtue of your parents being friends but...
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Very few people genuinely stay friends and become such close friends.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: With all the continents and bodies of water between us, we've managed to really stay friends.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I feel like actually with age, our friendship gets tighter.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: It has transitioned probably as much as some of our life transitions.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: And also like our life transitions really didn't overlap.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: I had kids when you didn't have kids.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: I got married when you were traveling the world.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: And now you have little kids and I'm about to be an empty nester,
2:38
SPEAKER_01: which makes me feel like I'm 79 years old.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: That is the perfect transition into our topic.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Today, we're going to talk about what's going on.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: I have to be honest,
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited for the conversation, but I also did not plan to have any guests.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: And when you and I were texting, and this is through text, I could just feel that
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Things were difficult.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, you know what, this is such a big life transition that you're going through.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: I can't make a podcast about life transitions and not offer up this platform.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: A number of my friends would like call me and I wouldn't pick up their calls
3:30
SPEAKER_01: and they would like text me and be like, do you want to talk about it?
3:33
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I can't.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: I can't talk about it.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I literally will start crying now.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: I went to visit the college where he's going and he went up front to ask a question.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: And I stayed and cried and like put my seat down in my bag because I was like,
3:47
SPEAKER_01: I can't be that mom that's like sobbing and she's letting her kid go
3:51
SPEAKER_01: because I was never that mom.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Like when Matthew went to college, it was like, great.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: Congratulations.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: So what's different?
4:01
SPEAKER_01: With your first kid, you're really excited.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: When's he going to talk?
4:03
SPEAKER_01: When's he going to walk?
4:05
SPEAKER_01: Who's he going to be like when he grows up?
4:07
SPEAKER_01: And Ethan, because I knew he was going to be my last kid, like I just wanted to hold on to him.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: Like I just wanted to hold on to him being baby.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: I was never sad with any of Matthew's transitions.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: I was always excited to be like, my God, I have a high schooler.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God, he's going to college.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: With Ethan,
4:22
SPEAKER_01: like I do remember dropping him off at kindergarten,
4:24
SPEAKER_01: coming home, lying down and just sobbing.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's hard to imagine now because you have little kids and they're on you all the time.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: When you're parenting a teenager, I don't see my kid.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: He's in this room.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: I heard that when you're a parent to a teenager, you're like a potted plant.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: You should just be there for them, but they don't necessarily need to interact with you.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: They just need to know you're there.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: Even if he just texts me, are you going to bar class?
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Are you going out after work?
4:48
SPEAKER_01: And I'll be like, yes, but I'll be home at seven.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: I'll make dinner then.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: And like just that interaction I know is all he needs and that's all I'm going
4:56
SPEAKER_01: to really get from him.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: But Did you ever have this moment of feeling like,
5:19
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: I get to do whatever I want in a positive way.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: In a super positive way.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: I literally like lived for these moments.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: The moment when Matthew was big enough to go pick up Ethan from
5:30
SPEAKER_01: the afterschool program and I didn't have to rush from work.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm literally crying.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: I do.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a combination of personality.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: You're not the same parent to your kids, even if they're being raised in the same household.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: You're a different person.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: I think I had Matthew too young.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I was emotionally mature with either of my kids.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm trying to get there now as an adult adult.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, I used to always resent me.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: I think society forces us to pick those categories when
6:47
SPEAKER_00: The reality is very few of us are just mothers.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: And I would never say that like I'm the kind of person that was bored to be a mother.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: So that's why it's also like ridiculous now that I'm having this breakdown
7:00
SPEAKER_01: because like I would have always like loved being free
7:04
SPEAKER_01: and like I can't imagine having a little kid now.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: I want to travel.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: I want to go to the theater.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I can do all of those things anytime I want.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Like we go away for the weekend and we leave Ethan home alone and we can do that.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: I would never want to go back.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I could.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I'm obviously having this existential crisis.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: So what's the feeling that you really feel underneath this overwhelm
7:30
SPEAKER_00: when you were sitting there and he was going up to do something
7:33
SPEAKER_00: and you just put your head in your bag and started crying?
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Can you try to describe it?
7:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just like very simple.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to miss my kid at home.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: But there's also...
7:43
SPEAKER_01: Who am I?
7:44
SPEAKER_01: What's my purpose?
7:45
SPEAKER_00: I do wonder, what has the sense of community been for you?
7:50
SPEAKER_00: You said that you have friends texting you and you just can't reply.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: How does that make you feel?
7:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm also like alone in this journey because even though a lot
8:00
SPEAKER_01: of my friends had kids early, they all ended up having like a change of life baby.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: So I'm genuinely the only one alone without kids.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: I also just think I have the time
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Whereas when you're going through a transition of not being a mother and becoming
8:17
SPEAKER_01: a mother, you don't really have time to sit there.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: You're just doing it.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: You're so busy.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: You're on three hours of sleep.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: If a thought crosses your mind,
8:28
SPEAKER_01: it ends up being just tears and then you're distracted by the next task.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Whereas now, I can luxuriate in all of these existential thoughts because time is all I got.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, time really slows down.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: And that, I guess, is something that's really hard that people don't really talk about.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: And I don't see you as someone who fills your time with productivity just to not have time.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: No.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Which is good.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: I do things that bring me joy.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: I'll read.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: I'll go for a walk.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: I'll go to the theater.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if this is just so programmed in this because you made me think of this.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: You said this is society puts us in these roles like are you a mother or are you not a mother?
9:13
SPEAKER_01: And if you're not a mother maybe you're worthless.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a part of me maybe that's internalized that of,
9:19
SPEAKER_01: well, now I'm done being a mother.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: I guess I'll just go lie down on my iceberg and float away
9:23
SPEAKER_01: because no one needs me anymore, which is ridiculous because obviously.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: What about your partner, Kevin?
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Is this change impacting him?
9:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure he will be devastated.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: He's a weepy dad.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: But right now he's like, oh, stop it.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: We're going to have so much fun.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, get out of here.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: But I know that's the way to get through these feelings.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: If you were both in this like crying in your bag vibe, that would make it even harder.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's better for him to be the one who's excited.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: And then when he's going to be the one crying in his whatever jacket,
10:00
SPEAKER_00: you'll be like, wait, but we're going to do all these things you said.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Why are you crying?
10:05
SPEAKER_01: We were flying to Paris this weekend.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: And is there anything that does feel exciting about this transition to you?
10:13
SPEAKER_01: It is so freeing, right?
10:14
SPEAKER_01: I can do anything with my life.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: I also, because I did work in public service, I can retire in less than 10 years.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: I genuinely can start a brand new career.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: I can do anything I want.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: And it is exciting.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'll get to the exciting point.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm not there yet.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: But I see the possibility of excitement.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: And like, I've been relishing the freedom of not needing to be a caretaker all the time.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: What about on Ethan's side?
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Is it pure excitement or does he have any feelings of transition, sadness or anything like that?
10:50
SPEAKER_01: I think he's got a little of it because I've noticed he's become very a little sappy.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Like he'll always come over and hug me and he's six feet tall.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: So he bends down and goes, oh, my tiny mama.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: He was more affectionate now than he was a year ago.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: And is there anything that you're doing differently this summer to savor
11:08
SPEAKER_01: the time together more?
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Or is it just adding pressure?
11:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, let's take our one last vacation.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Let's do this thing.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Those things are artificial.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, I find that whenever you try to do that, it's our last spring break together.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: It just puts more pressure in that vacation time is the time when families fight
11:35
SPEAKER_01: the most, I find, or at least my family.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: And then you end up fighting and you're like,
11:39
SPEAKER_01: this was supposed to be our last moment together and look at us.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: So I'm leaning away from that because that's how I've spent my whole life
11:46
SPEAKER_01: and it just led to nothing but frustration and disappointment.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: I find that I love travel so much and I love traveling with my family so much
11:53
SPEAKER_01: and it ends up being the most stressful time of my entire life.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to take it easy, which is very hard for me
12:00
SPEAKER_00: to do.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about September.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: What do you think the first week will be like when he leaves?
12:08
SPEAKER_01: I will definitely book like the hardest bar class I can.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Killer Pilates so that I could just like sweat my tears out and be like, no, it's just sweat.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: It's not not sobbing.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: OK, what do you wish someone
12:20
SPEAKER_00: had told you about this transition before you were in it?
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Could someone have even said anything to you?
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Even the words empty nester, which we hate because it's so weird and old fashioned, whatever.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: But it sounds sad.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: So I think people have always told me, oh, you're going to love it.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: And I would be like, yeah, sure, I'm going to love it.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Or they've been like, oh, it's devastating.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: People get divorced.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: I think it's such a personal thing that nobody could have told me that even
12:47
SPEAKER_01: if they showed me an exact script for how I'm reacting now,
12:51
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have believed it.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: Because it was so different with Matthew.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Because you have a different relationship with each child.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: You're at different points in your life with each child.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: And it's just a general transition, right?
13:04
SPEAKER_01: It makes you realize that nothing is forever.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Time is moving.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, what's your advice to someone like me who is still very much in the small kids phase?
13:16
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say I dream of them growing up and leaving because that definitely is terrifying.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: I just don't even think about it.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: But I do think about I wish I could get a break.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: I think it more often than I'd like to admit.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: So what would your advice be to me?
13:32
SPEAKER_01: Listen, there's no advice, like just like no one can give me any advice, but if I...
13:37
SPEAKER_01: If I had any suggestions,
13:38
SPEAKER_01: it would be to stop and look at these tiny moments where I'm not trying to clean
13:43
SPEAKER_01: the dishes from the table immediately,
13:45
SPEAKER_01: but I just look at my kids laughing with each other and look at these two goofballs.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: I look at the funny relationship they have,
13:51
SPEAKER_01: you know,
13:51
SPEAKER_01: whereas my tendency is I'm going to go do the next thing of just like stop
13:55
SPEAKER_01: and give yourself these 30 seconds to do a little mental photo of a moment
13:59
SPEAKER_01: that you created and give yourself credit for these two adorable,
14:03
SPEAKER_01: funny people that you have.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: And they're yours.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: They are living this amazing little life.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: These moments that they have,
14:11
SPEAKER_01: whether it's playing in the backyard or getting dressed up for some kind
14:15
SPEAKER_01: of occasion.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: You did that.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: These are your tiny people.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: And you can remember that tiny moment to cherish your tiny moments.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, like, what's the point of all this?
14:24
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise,
14:25
SPEAKER_01: you look back in 20 years,
14:28
SPEAKER_01: even though it's going to feel like five minutes,
14:30
SPEAKER_01: and all you'll remember is being busy.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that is just how society has created things for us.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Because I live somewhere where you would think one would stop and smell
14:42
SPEAKER_00: the roses more, but it's very much actually a personal thing.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: And I feel I definitely need to remind myself sometimes to just not...
14:52
SPEAKER_00: You and I are
14:58
SPEAKER_01: living lives that we only dreamt of,
15:00
SPEAKER_01: that we prayed for, vision boarded, and now we're here.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: And are we enjoying it?
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Remember when we moved into this apartment and you lived here with us?
15:08
SPEAKER_01: This apartment,
15:10
SPEAKER_01: I went to look at it just because I wanted to see what
15:12
SPEAKER_01: an apartment like this could look like.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: And now I've been here over 10 years.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: We forget because we move on to the next dream.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: That's why it's important to stop and savor what's in front of us.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: So between now and September,
15:27
SPEAKER_00: savor those moments with Ethan and those dinners and whatever those everyday things
15:33
SPEAKER_00: that are just like everyday thing, but savor it.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what I plan to do.
15:38
[music]
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Because of my perspective of being someone that has kids that are so small.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Lena and Victor are two and five.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: And that irony of wishing for a break now versus knowing this day will come
16:03
SPEAKER_00: and hearing how Julia felt in all of that and how she's feeling.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: It's like there's this duality of wanting them to grow up but wanting them to stay little.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: And there's a certain pattern that I'm seeing with every transition that I've been
16:21
SPEAKER_00: through in my life.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: And this transition for Julia certainly seems no different.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: There is this kind of gain and loss that is really a part of everything we go through.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Julia is more focused on the loss right now because Ethan hasn't even left the house.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Whereas I feel excited for what the gain will be for her because I have small kids
16:47
SPEAKER_00: and I can just imagine how amazing it will be.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: So really the through line for her,
16:54
SPEAKER_00: as it is for me,
16:55
SPEAKER_00: as it is for all of us in everything we go through,
16:59
SPEAKER_00: is that there is this loss part that we don't talk about.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: And we tend to really only celebrate the gains.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: That's something that is probably...
17:11
SPEAKER_00: A result of social media and just how our society has created this kind
17:18
SPEAKER_00: of visual world where everyone shares the good vibes and not necessarily what
17:25
SPEAKER_00: the struggle is.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: What I'm really taking away from this is that it's just so important to savor
17:32
SPEAKER_00: the moment and how fast time goes by.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm going to stop wishing for bedtime to come faster because by five o'clock.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling so exhausted or thinking about my own parents, my own mother.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: When I left to France at the age of 20, it must have been so difficult for my parents.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Plus, I'm an only child.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: And now that I have two kids, I can't even imagine what that must have been like for them.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Julia is still in it.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Ethan hasn't left.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: They still got the summer and she can really savor it.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So if you have small kids, maybe hold them a little longer tonight.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't,
18:17
SPEAKER_00: maybe call someone who you love,
18:20
SPEAKER_00: who watched you grow up and just think about how hard it must have been for them.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: When you transitioned into that adult life and moved out or stopped calling or,
18:30
SPEAKER_00: you know, just started really living your life.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: I can just imagine that these transitions sneak up on us and next thing we know,
18:39
SPEAKER_00: 18 years have gone by.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: If you want to see photos from the different periods of my life that I talk about
18:46
SPEAKER_00: and even a throwback to Julia and I as kids,
18:49
SPEAKER_00: make sure you're subscribed to the Dots and Dreams Substack.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: I share them in the newsletter that goes out with each episode.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: You can even reply and share your story with me.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Are you going through a big transition right now and this episode spoke to you?
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Is there someone you watched grow up who you suddenly have an urge to call?
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Or the other way around.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear about it.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed listening to me and could rate
19:15
SPEAKER_00: and review this episode wherever you're listening,
19:18
SPEAKER_00: that will help others like you and I find this show.