Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #308: John Boisette-West Virginia State University

Transcript

#308: John Boisette-West Virginia State University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:02
  You're listening to the Guild Athletics Connections podcast
• 0:05
  with host Mike Cunningham. Track and field world UNL tuned
• 0:12
  in to our humble servant Mike Cunningham for another
• 0:16
  extraordinary message for Guild athletics.
• 0:18
  Connections, yo, you're back. You press play right here on the
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  Guild Connections Podcast. Super stoked that you would join
• 0:26
  us here once again at 300 something episodes.
• 0:29
  It still blows my mind. And the cool thing is you guys
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  and gals keep showing up. I'm so humbled and so happy to
• 0:35
  be your host. Mike Cunningham.
• 0:37
  Someone called me the pod father of Track and Field podcast.
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  That humbles me as well to be able to have that unofficial
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  moniker and just stoked to bring you another awesome coach.
• 0:47
  Really excited about this one. I know I say that every week,
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  but it's true. Like this is the one thing I
• 0:52
  really am true. I'm passionate and love to give
• 0:54
  voices to track and field coaches around the country and
• 0:57
  around the world and I'm excited to go this.
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  I know this isn't the first coach we've had from this state,
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  but we don't have very many coaches from this state and
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  we'll learn that here in a second.
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  But before that, I do want to kind of just heads up, make sure
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  you're aware of this. So we just started this probably
• 1:13
  about a week or two ago when you're listening to this
• 1:15
  episode, the Gill 1918 project. So you know, here on Mondays, we
• 1:20
  have our long form, very intensive coaches interviews,
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  right where we talk about how they got into track and field,
• 1:27
  how they got into coaching and when that became an idea, all
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  the different stops along the way, lessons learned, mentors
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  that have poured into them. And we're super stoked.
• 1:35
  That is going to continue every Monday right here.
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  We're going to have another exciting coaches story to share
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  with you. But then the goal is from
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  Tuesday through Sunday, short form podcast.
• 1:46
  So these will be 10 minutes to 30 minute podcasts.
• 1:49
  And this could be think of this as the Ted Talks of track and
• 1:53
  field podcast. So we're going to have coaches
• 1:56
  explore X's and O's so you know how to make a javelin thrower
• 1:59
  better, how to make a distance runner better, how to use
• 2:02
  technology in coaching, why I host a youth track and field
• 2:06
  camp, things like that. And this is your opportunity to
• 2:10
  have your own episode. We're opening this up to
• 2:12
  everybody out there, coaches, strength and conditioning
• 2:14
  coaches, all events, cross country, etc, for you to record
• 2:18
  your own podcast. So if you're interested in that,
• 2:21
  hit me up. All my information is below in
• 2:24
  the the show notes, my e-mail, my cell phone, Twitter, all that
• 2:28
  kind of stuff. Hit me up.
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  Again, very broad Ted talks of track and field.
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  So pretty much everything is on the table.
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  And again, I would love to be able to help you explore your
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  voice, explore your thoughts and really add value to other
• 2:42
  coaches that are listening out there.
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  So I hope you're enjoying those. Now, they have started everyday
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  Tuesday through, yeah, Tuesday through Sunday.
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  As long as we have content, as soon as we get that content,
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  we'll publish it. OK, enough of that commercial.
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  You know, if you're watching this on YouTube, you see him,
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  he's yawning. He's bored where he's like, I
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  thought this was about me. And you are right.
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  Help me welcome from the great state of West Virginia.
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  We don't have many from West Virginia.
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  So I'm super excited as the head coach of West Virginia State
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  University, the wise, the wonderful Mr. John Boyzette.
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  John, how are you, Sir? I'm doing well, doing well, got
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  sleeping today, you know, the off day for our guys.
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  So definitely got to sleeping. Generally, I'm up at 6:00 AM
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  every day. I love it, I love it and I want
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  to show off my French chops. I learned that John is actually
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  French. He's got some Frenchness family,
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  so it's actually French wise. It'd be pronounced Boisette,
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  right? Yes, correct.
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  Yeah, I love that. I was giving you a very Italian.
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  I was going Boisetti when I was first thinking about it and I
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  was like, well, that just that just don't sound right.
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  It has to be Boisette. Boisette.
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  I love that man, John. OK, so one of my favorite little
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  quirks things to do. I'd love to know mascots of
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  every college out there. So let me, and I generally
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  genuinely don't know West Virginia State's mascot.
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  But don't tell me because I want to think, because I like to
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  think about the regional and, you know, the division and where
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  you're at and the state. So West Virginia State, it seems
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  too cliche as to say you guys are like the minors or something
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  like that. So I don't think that's it.
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  Maybe you're something more. I'm gonna call it generic, like
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  an animal. I'm going to go, yeah, I'm going
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  to go real generic for some reason.
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  Are you guys like the Tigers or something like that?
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  We are not. What is it?
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  You want? You want another guest or.
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  OK, I'll tell you. OK.
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  Yeah, Yeah. All right.
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  All right, let's give me give me some clues.
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  Is it an animal? It's it's more of an insect.
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  Oh man, what a great clue. Because that means it's a cool
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  mascot because there aren't very many of that.
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  It's almost like 20 questions. All right, so it's more you said
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  it's more like an insect, though you didn't necessarily say it is
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  OK. It is, It is OK.
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  So West Virginia, are you something cool like a monarch or
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  something? I don't think so.
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  I don't know if anybody's a monarch.
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  All right, what is it? I I'm going to the.
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  Yellow Jacket. Oh, you're one of those things
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  that are just irritating and just constantly and you're
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  hurtful. Yeah, OK, that makes a good
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  mascot. Actually are, you know, it's
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  interesting the evolution of mascots as far as like the, you
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  know, how they're portrayed and and drawn, you know, back in the
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  80s and 90s, all these mascots from Alabama, Clemson, etcetera.
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  They were more like inquisitive and fun looking mascots.
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  Now everybody has that death stare.
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  We're going to murder you. Now Yellow jackets kind of a
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  murderer is is the yellow jacket represented like a real like
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  fighting attack kind of killer yellow jacket or is it more
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  like? AI know one of the slogans here
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  is fear to sting you. Know.
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  Stings, you know, So I would say yeah.
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  I don't know how you could draw a yellow jacket.
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  Friendly, you know, fun Joe, because, you know, yellow there.
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  Boy, I've never met a nice yellow jacket.
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  Never. Never, never.
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  All right, John. Well, let's get in to learn
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  about you, my friend. You know, I mentioned West
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  Virginia. We don't have many coaching.
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  First of all, it's a smaller state.
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  So there's one reason, right? Not many colleges in West
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  Virginia. And we have high school and
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  colleges coaches on here before we did have last year, I
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  interviewed a high school coach from every state, including West
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  Virginia to talk about their state meet series.
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  And I did learn one of my favorite facts after
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  interviewing 5051 coaches because we included Washington,
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  DC West Virginia is one of only two states that has my favorite
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  event as a state meet event. And that's the shuttle hurdle
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  relay. I love that.
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  Do you as a college coach does that?
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  I mean, like, because, you know, you only do it like at the relay
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  meets. It's not an official event,
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  which it should be. But as a, as a, as a college
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  coach inside that state, do you like that or do you like, it's a
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  waste of time? Yeah, when you think about
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  recruiting and stuff. I do like it from a
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  developmental standpoint because that lets you showcase all your
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  hurdler skills and it almost like that backup quarterback
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  rule. Some of the quarterback
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  understand they won't get in, they won't play especially on
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  the high those high intense levels.
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  So when you at the shuttle hurdles, that means everybody
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  has to be ready, you know, because you don't want to be
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  that guy that lets down the shuttle hurdle.
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  So I think it's definitely a good, good thing to have from a
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  developmental standpoint for sure.
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  It almost I assume has to force the high school coaches to coach
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  more hurdle like to not shy away from that group.
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  You know, if you have a four by one, it's like, well, I better
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  put four. They better at least be somewhat
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  confident sprinters on the on the field.
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  Well, if I got a shuttle hurdle, I better have 4 somewhat
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  competent hurtlers on the field. So I loved, I just, I always
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  knew Iowa had it as an event. I thought it was the only state.
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  So when we had the coach from West Virginia High School there,
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  I was stoked because it's my favorite event in the whole wide
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  world. Like I wish it was the Olympics,
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  NCAA, NAI, JUCO, Chan. I think it should be everywhere.
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  I think it's it's pretty stinking cool, man.
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  Well, John, maybe you're a hurdler.
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  I have no idea. Let's dig into your past.
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  Let's start with when we get in our Wayback Machine here.
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  John, where does track and field start for you?
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  Assuming you were an athlete or did, are you in middle school or
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  high school or college start? Where does it start for you?
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  Started in elementary school. I remember we used to do the
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  school used to shut down. I was I can't I was born in
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  Connecticut. I went to, I think it was Morris
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  something I can't remember, but yeah, I went to an elementary
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  school in Connecticut and they used to that.
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  You that you don't remember your elementary school is OK.
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  Trust me. Everybody right now is going
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  yeah, I have no clue. Of course, you know, there's
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  something like people had like amazing elementary.
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  They're like, oh, I was at, you know, William Morris Pelicans
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  and you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  That's all good. It was Norris.
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  It was Norris school, it was Norris School.
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  I went to two different elementaries, O'Brien and
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  Norris, and haven't had to talk about it for a while.
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  They used to have a mile run every year and I remember I ran
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  the mile, I came in second and I think 3rd grade I ran probably a
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  6 minute mile. It was 3rd or 4th grade.
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  I think that's when my track journey really started, but I
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  didn't know it yet. And I remember because I forgot
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  my sneakers that day and I ran in like the low cut boots, some
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  low cut boots, running 6 minute mile.
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  But I didn't think about it because I just thought that was
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  normal. My, my dad had me in the boxing
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  gym from three years old. I was, I was a three sport
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  athlete. I was boxing, football, soccer.
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  Now that's new, you know, after 300 and something episodes,
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  John, you can forgive me that. I feel like I at least feel like
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  I've heard it all right. You know, I everybody's journey
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  is super unique, but you know, there's a lot of things I hear I
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  don't I can't recollect that anybody had grew up as a as a
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  boxer was was was dad a boxer? Like how does boxing get into
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  the family that you're doing it at three years?
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  Old my dad, my dad definitely, you know, messed around with
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  boxing a lot. He he was on his journey to do a
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  pro career and then he had to make adult decisions.
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  You know, the family needed more money.
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  So then he just went off and started working.
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  But I've always been around boxing pros my whole life.
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  I've actually done some professional cancer, a couple
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  fighters as well. So in my, when the track
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  season's not in, I'll take some time and go to a camp and, you
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  know, help and assist with strength conditioning and and
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  stuff like that and even some technical things.
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  Are there now? We did have Larry Wade, Yvonne
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  and Larry Wade when they were at UNLV.
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  We had them on the podcast long time ago now.
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  And Larry has, he was just starting into the boxing
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  training portion and now, you know, he's Jake Paul's trainer
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  for Crown. I mean, you know, he's huge in
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  boxing now. Do you, you know, kind of, you
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  know, John, I forgot to tell you this before we hit record.
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  I'm kind of a tangent guy, so I'm going to hear some.
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  That's interesting. We're just going to go for it.
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  And so even though we we still even yeah, yeah, we still even
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  got the high school track yet. And I'm like, oh, boxing, let's
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  talk about that. So from your experience of
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  boxing, you know, seeing, you know, knowing your dad's history
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  and you, your history and boxing, are there similarities?
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  Like this always kind of interests me.
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  Are there similarities between boxing and track?
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  And, and I don't necessarily mean like training because, you
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  know, our, our sport is the basis of all sports, I have to
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  assume. And you know, seeing Larry
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  Wade's videos, I know there's conditioning and Sprint training
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  and things like that. But are there like mindset
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  similar, like just the two sports?
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  Are there any similarities or are they like completely
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  opposite? They're identical if you ask me,
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  I don't even look at boxing and track as a sport.
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  I look at it as a lifestyle. That's really what it is,
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  because you're trying to improve the whole person, right?
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  A sports, I mean, obviously there's strategy, but if, if
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  your body isn't at 100%, you might not win, right?
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  In other sports, your body might not be at 100%, but you can rely
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  on tactics and strategies. But with, you know, track and
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  field and boxing, if your body's not 100%, then you can't rely on
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  a tactical strategy because most of our, our tactical strategies
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  rely on endurance, you know, some type of component of
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  anatomy. So from a mindset standpoint,
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  from a training standpoint, it's, it's pretty much the same.
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  You know, with boxing, you know, you got to wait too, if that's
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  more prevalent, right? You know when to cut weight,
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  when to peak, you know how fast do you want to drop weight.
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  That 5 lbs is a tremendous difference.
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  And even in track and field, that 5 lbs is a tremendous
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  difference because weight is a liability.
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  Yeah, outside of the relays that we just talked about, I could
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  see boxing being similar like you're saying there because, you
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  know, on track, if you're in the 100 meters, mile doesn't matter.
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  It's it's you. There's no one to, there's no
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  teammate to pass the ball to you or you to throw or you know,
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  things like that. It's it is you and whether you
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  do it or do it not, it is on you.
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  And boxing feels very much the same way.
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  I'm in that ring and boy, don't matter what my teammates, it's
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  just me and this dude or gal in front of me.
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  And we got to make it happen, Captain.
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  So it's interesting. OK, keep going.
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  Sorry, I I just fascinates me. So you kind of grew up boxing
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  You, you ran in army boots. I'm going to embellish the
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  story. Army boots for 3rd grade.
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  How does the the athletic journey continue to high school?
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  So yeah, I mean, in high school I actually played football as
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  well. And Shay, he went, he was my
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  track coach. He went to Penn State.
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  He was actually a swimmer for Penn State.
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  And you know, he saw me in the weight room one day and he's
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  like, dude, you should do track. And me, I'm just like, man, I'm
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  playing football. Yeah, I'll come out there.
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  Yeah, I'm going to come out there.
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  And I just remember football season ending and he's like,
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  dude, you told me he's coming off the track.
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  And I'm like, yeah, I'm coming out.
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  He came back 30 minutes later and grabbed me.
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  He's like, we going out to the track.
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  So I'm I'm laughing because I'm like, man, this guy is going to
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  make me do track now. So I originally started off as a
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  thrower. I was man, I was really small in
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  high school. I think I was one 35145.
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  But I was strong. I could I could bench press over
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  225. I could squat over four O 5.
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  And it's pretty interesting, but throwing wasn't going well for
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  me, you know, so I do jab and that I do javelin that one meet
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  and I remember the jab hit me in the back of the head and I was
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  like, coach, I don't think I'm I don't think I'm a throw her
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  right What? Do you mean a jab?
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  I mean that's, you know, no live people say that that a javelin
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  hit them in the back of the head.
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  What do you mean? When I went to go, when I went
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  to go throw it, I kind of turned my arm a little bit and I'm
• 14:07
  waiting for it and it and it and you.
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  You painted the picture as if you were in the infield and a
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  javelin flew and I was like, nobody alive tells the story,
• 14:17
  dude. OK, you hit yourself.
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  Let's make sure the story is right.
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  You hit yourself in the. All right, that's fair.
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  That's. I'm sure no other javelin
• 14:24
  throwers ever done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  OK. OK.
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  But you're like, maybe something else?
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  Yeah. So I'm like, man, I don't, I
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  don't think that was for me. And we didn't have any hammers
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  at the time. And I think I would have been a
• 14:36
  good hammer thrower because my sister was, I think when she was
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  in high school, she was top 20. But so I, we go out one day, I'm
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  like, hey, I want to run. He has me race the, I think our
• 14:48
  third string running back. I think it's, I'm not going to
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  say his name, but. And I beat him in the race and
• 14:55
  he's like, OK, so he tricks me. I'm running.
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  My first race ever was in the 4 by 4 anchor and my one of my
• 15:04
  teammates friends still have the video.
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  Every time I come in town they play it and this kid is probably
• 15:09
  like 150 meters down the track and he's like you got to catch
• 15:14
  him. I'm like man, no problem, I'll
• 15:16
  do it. I'm completely oblivious to how
• 15:19
  paying for the 400 is my direct. My coach said you ran like a bat
• 15:24
  out of hell. I'll run.
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  I'll catch up to him by the time he gets probably like to the
• 15:28
  220. I get to the 300m mark and I'm
• 15:31
  like, what's going on? My buddy's like that and
• 15:34
  everything. And I crossed the line and I'm
• 15:37
  like, you tricked me. And he's he's laughing
• 15:43
  hysterical on the floor, just crying.
• 15:46
  And that's, that's, that was welcome track and field for me.
• 15:49
  It was definitely welcome track and field for me.
• 15:52
  What a great story because there are a lot of us listening that
• 15:56
  have either been personally in that same story or we have all
• 16:00
  seen that kid who, you know, goes out and you're like, Oh my
• 16:03
  God, is this kid like a 44 second kid?
• 16:05
  Like who is this Quincy Wilson? What's going on out there?
• 16:07
  And then the 200M starts telling the truth and the 300M is the
• 16:11
  truth. Hey, you finished though.
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  I, I remember when I coached at Troy University, we hosted one
• 16:18
  of the high school region or the high school region was hosted
• 16:20
  there. And so me and some of the kids
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  went and watched, you know, the kids.
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  See if there's anybody I should be recruiting is way back before
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  the Internet made, you know, life a lot easier with
• 16:27
  recruiting. And this kid, I think it was
• 16:31
  open 400. I think it was a relay and just
• 16:33
  the same thing. Bad out of hell, right?
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  I mean, I'm like, wow, how do I not know this?
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  Like he's in our area, like, Oh my God, this kids, he's got 48
• 16:40
  seconds or something, you know, gets 200.
• 16:42
  You know what's going on. Probably starts entering his
• 16:45
  mind by, you know, 22240. You know, the proverbial bear or
• 16:48
  refrigerator jumps on his back. No kidding.
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  The kid just walks off the field at 300.
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  He was so bad. He's like, all right, bro, that
• 16:58
  just didn't work out. It was just.
• 17:02
  I've seen that, people too. I've seen that.
• 17:05
  I had a kid, he was from Africa, I forgot what country.
• 17:09
  And when he's like, put me in a mile, he sprints 2 laps and he
• 17:12
  comes around #1 and then on the third lap I didn't see him.
• 17:18
  And then at the end of the meet I saw him under the jackets.
• 17:22
  I said, man, what happened? And he said, look that I didn't
• 17:27
  know it was that hard. I, you know, I know track can
• 17:30
  humble you and I imagine that's a lot like it is in boxing as
• 17:33
  well. You know, what's the, the famous
• 17:35
  quote from Tyson? Everybody's got a plan until
• 17:36
  they're punching them out. You know what?
• 17:38
  That could absolutely be applicable to track and field.
• 17:41
  You know, everybody has a plan that 400 until the 300m punches
• 17:44
  has them in the face and everybody has a plan for the
• 17:46
  mile until the 4th lap hits them in the face.
• 17:49
  So how did you learn from this? I mean, you know, there there's
• 17:52
  a lot of people that would from that pain and you know, maybe
• 17:56
  some embarrassment because you caught the kid and then you
• 17:57
  know, didn't after that, things like that.
• 18:01
  Some kids for good or bad, that's it for them.
• 18:03
  Like hey, this ain't for me out. You know, I'll stick to
• 18:05
  football, but you stuck with it. Oh, 100% I was so I grew up on
• 18:11
  GMO, you know, Madden, NBANHLMLB back when video games were were
• 18:17
  a lot more fun to play by yourself and not online.
• 18:21
  So I, I, it became addicting because I was already addicted
• 18:24
  to playing games. That was challenging where you
• 18:26
  had to build something up. So that summer I just put on a
• 18:30
  piece of paper and I was struggling academically too
• 18:33
  before I started running track and field.
• 18:35
  But I think when you run track you got to look in the mirror,
• 18:39
  you got to self reflect. So man, that summer I broke down
• 18:42
  everything I was bad at. I was like I, I just said, man,
• 18:45
  everything I'm bad at, I'm going to get good at.
• 18:47
  I got in everybody. I already know what I do well.
• 18:49
  What, what, what year are you going into this summer?
• 18:53
  That was after my junior year. So going into senior year, you
• 18:57
  sit down and you know this. This is interesting to me
• 19:00
  because I think it's hard for 40 year old adults to do this, to
• 19:05
  look in the mirror and say, hey, here are the things I'm not very
• 19:07
  good at. What am I going to do to improve
• 19:09
  on them? A 1617 year old kid boy, I don't
• 19:13
  know that there's many of them that are doing that at all.
• 19:16
  You said, here are the things I'm you said bad.
• 19:18
  I was like, say not good. I'm not good at.
• 19:20
  I need to get better at them. 100.
• 19:24
  Percent Wow. I think, I think from a young
• 19:26
  age, my, my fear was all, everyone asked me what I fear of
• 19:29
  not to succeed, right? So I, I went down and I'm, and I
• 19:33
  was always the youngest in my group growing up, always the
• 19:36
  youngest, even in boxing. My dad used to lie on my age
• 19:39
  because my skill was good and I took me like 2-3 years older,
• 19:43
  stuff like that. But I wrote everything down And
• 19:45
  that summer I basically, I did everything that I wasn't good at
• 19:49
  so I can become comfortable. I'm a horrible basketball
• 19:51
  player. Now I'm I'm like running a test
• 19:54
  with no offense, you know, So, you know, I went to parks, play
• 20:00
  basketball just to get used to not being good and being
• 20:02
  confident. You know, I'm playing in front
• 20:04
  of people that anxiety, right? Oh my gosh, this shot is broken.
• 20:09
  And we have some really good basketball players that come out
• 20:11
  of Connecticut, right? You got Cam Broom, went to
• 20:13
  Cincinnati, you got a couple of others.
• 20:16
  Cam Broom, I went to high school with him.
• 20:18
  So that's the that's the number one guy that sticks out to me.
• 20:22
  I did everything that was bad at even in the classroom.
• 20:24
  I remember telling my mom like, hey, she got me a private tutor
• 20:29
  at home. So I was doing, I was going to
• 20:32
  school and coming back because I wasn't, I wasn't the best
• 20:34
  student. I wasn't the best athlete
• 20:36
  either, right? My best sport was boxing.
• 20:39
  I told my dad, I said, hey, I'm going to put boxing aside and I
• 20:42
  want to focus on some other stuff.
• 20:44
  You know, that that was a it was a really interesting
• 20:46
  conversation. I was serious.
• 20:48
  I said, yeah. I said, you know, I realized
• 20:50
  that I'm doing boxing for you, but I want to, I want to do
• 20:54
  something I want to do. And when he asked me what I want
• 20:57
  to do, he thought it was going to be football.
• 20:59
  I even put football aside and I chose track.
• 21:03
  It was something about that self reflection.
• 21:05
  Yeah, why, Why track? I mean, you, you have success in
• 21:08
  boxing, you have success in, you know, there's a team, real team
• 21:12
  component to football. So, you know, I was a football
• 21:13
  player. So I know, you know, the draw
• 21:15
  that is that. And I know the sometimes pain
• 21:18
  and loneliness of track and field as well.
• 21:20
  What, what, why? Out of all those things you had,
• 21:22
  you know, basketball academics. Why?
• 21:24
  Why? Why stick with track?
• 21:26
  I think it was my first opportunity.
• 21:28
  I want you know, to, for me as an athlete, you know, football,
• 21:33
  I've been on programs where you play running back, you run to
• 21:35
  the red zone, the coach puts his son in touchdown.
• 21:38
  So you got all the rushing yards and and then, you know, no
• 21:42
  touchdown boxing. I've had, I've had, I think I
• 21:46
  had like 2 losses on my record where I felt I won and went back
• 21:51
  and watched the tape and clearly I was outscored the dude.
• 21:55
  But you know, the kid, the, the promoter of the event, I was
• 21:59
  fighting his fighter and you know, he got the nod split
• 22:03
  decision. But then I go back and watch the
• 22:05
  tape and I was like, man, track and field.
• 22:07
  No one I've never seen in any, any, any state, any country, if
• 22:13
  you win by 1010 meters, they can't rob you.
• 22:16
  So I fell in love with that aspect of it.
• 22:19
  You know my mindset and I tell my team to this day, you know,
• 22:22
  everybody's praying to God to come in first place.
• 22:24
  I'm not praying to God. I'm just saying let my hard
• 22:26
  work, let me come into the, you know what place I deserve.
• 22:30
  And it's funny because one of my, my new athletes, he said,
• 22:33
  man, I took that model and he, he ran a 5 second PR in the, in
• 22:38
  the 800, he ran 155. I think he ran 2O15.
• 22:42
  So it's something about the mindset of just becoming
• 22:46
  obsessed with failure and and pushing yourself to that
• 22:48
  breaking point and understanding the work you put in each day is
• 22:52
  what's going to give you your ultimate goal.
• 22:54
  So what did Coach Shay, I think you said, so how did he go?
• 22:58
  What did what did you what, what do you think his reaction was?
• 23:01
  You know, he went from, you know, grabbing you out of the
• 23:03
  weight room going, hey, man, you said you were just going to the
• 23:06
  track. Let's go to you turning in your
• 23:07
  senior year going, hey, I dropped it all.
• 23:09
  I'm putting all my eggs in the basket into track and field.
• 23:12
  He saw a heck of a transition from his side as the coaching
• 23:15
  side. 100% he kind of just watched and then I remember
• 23:19
  coming in after pre season because we had pre season.
• 23:22
  He said I'm going to do something crazy.
• 23:23
  And I'm looked at him like, what do you mean?
• 23:25
  And we just graduated Jamaal Fruster.
• 23:27
  He was a 46 guy in the four and he said I'm going to name you
• 23:31
  captain. I said coach, I was like, you
• 23:33
  can't do that. He's like, wow, I didn't you
• 23:35
  know football you don't play all four years.
• 23:37
  You don't play right unless you're Barry Sanders.
• 23:41
  I was like, I've only played two years, he said.
• 23:43
  But you're a natural born leader.
• 23:47
  They named me captain and he, he said he worked hard for it.
• 23:51
  That year was a really good year.
• 23:52
  We went to, we went to the regionals.
• 23:55
  We were, I think we, we, we qualified for nationals, but we
• 23:59
  didn't go due to funding at the time.
• 24:01
  But the, the the beautiful thing behind that, I just went back to
• 24:05
  my alma mater and the I was recruiting some kids from my my
• 24:09
  high school and the track coach is still there.
• 24:11
  One of them is still there. And he said, you know, we go to
• 24:13
  nationals every year because of you.
• 24:14
  And I said, really? He's like, yeah, you were the
• 24:17
  first one to say, hey, so now we have it in our budget.
• 24:21
  That's something I never knew. You know, I, I've said this many
• 24:24
  times and I'll say it 1000 times more so the day I die.
• 24:27
  You know, the superpower of a of a track coach is they see
• 24:31
  something in others before they can see it in themselves.
• 24:34
  It struck me and and if you're watching on YouTube, rewind and
• 24:38
  look at his face. Your demeanor changed a little
• 24:41
  bit there, John, when you mentioned that, coach looked at
• 24:44
  me and said you're a natural born leader.
• 24:47
  So and you were surprised by that, first of all, because
• 24:50
  you're playing time, but maybe because of, you know, all the
• 24:52
  other things in your life, maybe no one else has ever told you
• 24:55
  you were a leader. But coach saw that in you before
• 24:58
  you could see it in yourself. What did that mean to you when
• 25:00
  he looked you in the eye and said you're a natural born
• 25:04
  leader, John? I mean, I, I think it meant I
• 25:07
  couldn't let him down, to be honest with you.
• 25:09
  That loyalty was there. I mean, I still talk to him to
• 25:12
  this day. It was, it was a sense of
• 25:15
  loyalty that was developed. And you, it's track and field,
• 25:19
  high school coaches aren't paid of what they should be in some
• 25:22
  states. So you know that this person's
• 25:25
  taking time out of his day. You know that he means it.
• 25:28
  And there was a sense of trust developed there.
• 25:31
  And I knew that was something I could someone I could rely on.
• 25:34
  So successful senior year, did you stay a 400m runner?
• 25:39
  I did not. I did not.
• 25:42
  I ended up going to SO I went to Community College for a year.
• 25:46
  No, I'm sorry. Stay.
• 25:47
  Stay in high school for me. Through your time in high
• 25:50
  school, did you stay a 400m runner?
• 25:52
  Was that your main event in high school?
• 25:53
  That. Was my main event in high
• 25:54
  school, Yes. And now let's start working on
• 25:59
  OK, transitioning from high school to college.
• 26:02
  Tell us about that and what I'm interested as you tell us, you
• 26:06
  know kind of where you looked at why you looked at you mentioned
• 26:08
  Community College already. Where is where is coaching in
• 26:14
  your mind? Is is you being a coach at all
• 26:16
  in your mind as a 1718 year old kid?
• 26:18
  100% actually started. I was coaching my junior year
• 26:22
  high school. I started coaching Pop Warner
• 26:24
  football. OK.
• 26:26
  I've coached the C team. Or maybe the mighty minds.
• 26:29
  It was the mighty minds of the C team.
• 26:31
  Not a brag but we we went undefeated day.
• 26:35
  You know how much I pay attention to little kid
• 26:37
  athletics, like, oh, we are the national champs.
• 26:39
  Cool. You matured more than the other
• 26:40
  little kid. Come on, get out of here.
• 26:42
  But I get you. Still got a coach.
• 26:43
  I'm. I'm with you.
• 26:44
  I'm with you. So you when you're looking at
• 26:46
  what's next after high school, you're thinking about a major
• 26:50
  that I can get to become a coach.
• 26:51
  Like you're you're in on this. Yeah, I'm great.
• 26:57
  I already knew. I knew from a young age I was
• 26:59
  like, hey, I'm usually going to be a physical educator, a
• 27:03
  coaching and that's even college.
• 27:05
  College is pretty interesting because I I figured it all out
• 27:07
  and college like OK, I know exactly where I need to be.
• 27:10
  All right. Well, let's start that journey.
• 27:11
  Where did you look at what were you thinking again, you
• 27:13
  mentioned Community College, you mentioned I'm a former JUCO
• 27:16
  coach myself. So maybe and you already
• 27:18
  mentioned kind of academics, Was that why we went Community
• 27:20
  College or talk to us about that transition?
• 27:24
  My mom wanted me to prove that I that I academically I was
• 27:27
  strong. My dad was 100% sports, my mom
• 27:30
  was 100% academic. That's a good pairing though.
• 27:34
  That's good. You need one of each, right?
• 27:36
  My dad was always in trouble, man.
• 27:39
  My dad was always in trouble. Hey, don't tell your mom like,
• 27:42
  man, you know, she's going to find out.
• 27:44
  But no. Yeah.
• 27:45
  So I by the time I graduated high school, I went to Community
• 27:49
  College. My grandmother was the head
• 27:50
  professor of the English department.
• 27:52
  So I had to, I had to show up, right.
• 27:56
  It was interesting though, because I actually worked as
• 27:58
  well. So I would have actually, I
• 28:00
  actually worked in the deli at a stop and shop.
• 28:03
  I don't know if those exist anymore, but so I would work in
• 28:07
  the deli from 6:00 AM, walk to the deli and then catch the bus
• 28:12
  to go to Community College. And they had a track team at the
• 28:15
  time, but when I got there, they cut it.
• 28:17
  They cut all the athletics. So I'm like, man, what am I
• 28:20
  going to do? So I remember getting a letter
• 28:24
  in the mail from Liberty University, a track, you know,
• 28:28
  and my mom was like, you're not going to go there because it's
• 28:30
  too far. I'm like, man, OK, so I went
• 28:33
  there for a semester. And then the AD at the time was
• 28:36
  like, hey, come to Eastern Connecticut.
• 28:38
  And I'm just like, OK, I want to go to Central, but she's like,
• 28:41
  come to Eastern Connecticut. And then I ended up running
• 28:43
  track at Eastern Connecticut because I had already had that
• 28:46
  that relation with that that individual.
• 28:51
  And it was, it was really interesting.
• 28:53
  And what made me go to Community College on my backpedal a little
• 28:56
  bit is I did play football and I did go to Darrelle Revis camps
• 29:01
  up at UConn. And I remember staying there.
• 29:04
  They had a summer program where like if you were being
• 29:07
  recruited, that was, I forgot the coach at the time, but he
• 29:09
  came back. That was right, right when they
• 29:11
  had Darius Butler, Darius Darius Butler was my mentor.
• 29:14
  They had a goal line project where he would come down to the
• 29:17
  schools and he would mentor me so that I was playing DV.
• 29:21
  I was thinking I'm going to UConn, everything like that.
• 29:23
  The only issue was I was 135 lbs.
• 29:27
  A 145 lbs playing high hybrid outside linebacker.
• 29:31
  That's when Klay Matthews first came out and I was only like 5
• 29:34
  three. I'm currently, I'm currently
• 29:37
  61200 and 5 lbs. I did not grow.
• 29:42
  Going into going into college, so as a 19 year old, 1819 year
• 29:46
  old, you were 5 three, $1.30 Wow.
• 29:51
  I didn't grow until after I remember seeing my football
• 29:54
  coach and the coaches after that.
• 29:56
  What happened? Where was this?
• 30:00
  What was this back then? Wow, that's intro and and you
• 30:02
  know, that does actually, John, go a little bit to where to my
• 30:05
  point of where I said, you know how much I pay attention to
• 30:07
  little kid athletics because again, here, you know, most
• 30:10
  males are going to grow complete by the time they're senior years
• 30:13
  in freshman in college. You had a drastic after high
• 30:15
  school growth again, maturation of of little kids.
• 30:19
  I'm talking about, you know, 5 to 14 year old.
• 30:21
  It's like who care, you know, wait till you're a senior, then
• 30:23
  I'll find out if I if you're good or not.
• 30:25
  You know, so that's so interesting though.
• 30:28
  Did that this could be a weird question, John.
• 30:30
  Did that hurt? And what I mean by that is, you
• 30:33
  know, kids, so I've got a 14 year old as he's growing from
• 30:38
  middle school into high school next year, you know, there's
• 30:40
  years where he'll grow, you know, 2 inches, you know, in, in
• 30:43
  a couple of months for crying out loud.
• 30:45
  And he has some body aches and pains because of that.
• 30:48
  Did you experience that as a 18/19/20 year old kid as you
• 30:51
  were growing? That's drastic growth.
• 30:53
  I can't remember because I was training every day, so my body
• 30:56
  was sore anyway. Yeah, good point.
• 30:58
  I was, you know, I was always hoping to, you know, that's
• 31:01
  that's a big thing. I just remember telling my
• 31:03
  sibling, my older brother, like one day I'm going to be bigger
• 31:05
  than you. And they just laughed.
• 31:07
  I'm like, yeah, it's coming. And then one day I just woke up.
• 31:10
  I don't even know when it happened because I had actually
• 31:12
  have the my old closet door I put in my basement.
• 31:14
  I used to measure my height every day, every day.
• 31:17
  And I got the lines in it. But it's funny.
• 31:20
  Wow, yeah. So you're 61 now?
• 31:24
  Yeah, I'm 6/1. Dude that is a lot of growing at
• 31:29
  that age and past. Holy cow dude shoes are
• 31:33
  expensive when these little kids are little kids.
• 31:35
  Buy new shoes. Kids are way or shoes are way
• 31:38
  more expensive as a teenager, 20 year old holy cow, man, you had
• 31:42
  to that's crazy. That's just I you know, I can
• 31:45
  almost see your coaches be like all right, you're not really
• 31:47
  John. Where's John?
• 31:48
  You're you know come on. I know you look like him, but
• 31:50
  get out of here. Where's the real John?
• 31:52
  That's amazing. So you go so you're still kind
• 31:56
  of journeying this football track thing Community College.
• 31:59
  You went to liberty for a semester.
• 32:01
  Did I they? Sent me something to mail for
• 32:05
  track like they they sent me a recruiting letter, but my mom
• 32:07
  mom's like. Yeah, not happy I got it.
• 32:09
  Because she was so concerned about my academics.
• 32:12
  Sure, sure, sure, sure. So you but you do get your
• 32:16
  academics on track through the Community College and then go to
• 32:18
  East. Eastern Connecticut.
• 32:20
  Eastern Connecticut, not East Central E Eastern Connecticut.
• 32:24
  So what are you doing? Are you playing football or are
• 32:25
  you running track? Or both.
• 32:26
  Running track. I went there for track.
• 32:28
  I mean, it was pretty interesting too.
• 32:30
  I mean, it was, you know, I always told my mom like, if I
• 32:33
  can get the semester, first semester I'm going to, I'll be
• 32:37
  fine. English was not my strong point
• 32:40
  because I've always been a more creative, creative writer.
• 32:43
  Even though Grandma is a English teacher, for crying out loud.
• 32:46
  OK, all right. Grandma's so disappointed.
• 32:48
  Oh man, that's. I always thought I look at it,
• 32:51
  but but I used to write stories as a kid.
• 32:54
  I used to write books. As a kid.
• 32:56
  So I never really the MLAAPA and I was AI played the saxophone.
• 33:01
  I was an artist as well. Yeah, they used to.
• 33:03
  We used to have the art shows where the the art pictures get
• 33:06
  selected and go to the mayor's office.
• 33:08
  And I was one of those kids. So to put me in, my grandmother
• 33:12
  gave me free range, right. So to put me in a in a English
• 33:15
  class and say, I need you to write in this structure.
• 33:18
  And my grandma was like, my grandma didn't teach me the
• 33:20
  structure because we she had more of a belief, like the way
• 33:24
  you write is how you tell your story.
• 33:27
  So she's always taught. That's so interesting because,
• 33:31
  you know, on one hand and again, you know, probably my answer
• 33:34
  today as a father of two kids would be different than, you
• 33:38
  know, 15 years ago before I was a father.
• 33:40
  Like, I hear that, John. And I'm like, oh, well, we
• 33:43
  should bless that. Like, you know, creativity and
• 33:45
  art like there are. And while those things are
• 33:48
  important, you know, storytelling, authors, actual
• 33:53
  art, whether it's, you know, clay, you know, the OR paint or
• 33:58
  whatever, you know that all those are important, but they
• 34:00
  also lead to other other extremely important things.
• 34:04
  Like, you know, there are chemists who were artists
• 34:07
  growing up. There are engineers who are, you
• 34:09
  know, like, like to me, I'm like, oh, fan that flame.
• 34:11
  That's really important. But then I also go, well, OK,
• 34:14
  but you do need to know sentence structure to help with your so
• 34:16
  it's kind of AI don't know pulling on both sides of the
• 34:19
  rope there, but it's but you're an artist first and foremost
• 34:23
  growing up. Yeah 100%.
• 34:25
  My grandfather built houses as well.
• 34:27
  Yeah, that's art. Yeah.
• 34:29
  I was, you know, I was more hands on.
• 34:31
  I had to learn the the bookmarks of like the structure of it.
• 34:36
  Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:37
  That, that that's a good example there.
• 34:38
  There is, there is creativity, art in like, you know,
• 34:41
  architecture, home building, things like that.
• 34:43
  Yet you better know the fundamentals or the walls fall
• 34:45
  down when you build it. So yeah, yeah, that's good
• 34:47
  point. Good point.
• 34:48
  Yeah. So what are you?
• 34:50
  What are you actually majoring in at Eastern Connecticut
• 34:53
  University? Physical education and
• 34:55
  kinesiology. Anyway, it was.
• 34:59
  Now that is the opposite of art, OK?
• 35:04
  I would disagree. OK, tell me how because.
• 35:08
  When you Start learning the performance of the body, it's
• 35:11
  art. I mean, that's how I see it when
• 35:13
  I. Agree with that.
• 35:15
  But when you talk about kinesiology, when we're talking
• 35:17
  about bone structure and muscle structure that that there, there
• 35:20
  is no wiggle room. The quad, the quad has this many
• 35:23
  attaches here. That's what I'm saying.
• 35:24
  Like that seems the very opposite of creativity.
• 35:26
  Yeah. So I went in there and I
• 35:29
  remember teaching and going to the classes and I'm working with
• 35:33
  the kids and I'm like, man, I'm more interested in performance,
• 35:37
  you know, performance because you're teaching these kids
• 35:40
  stuff. And it's like I want to teach
• 35:42
  them something they could do forever, you know, So I kind of
• 35:46
  struggled there from that standpoint, from the anatomy
• 35:50
  standpoint, I retained everything.
• 35:53
  But then I realized, you know, I might want to coach.
• 35:57
  So I started taking classes USATF stuff like that.
• 36:04
  And while. You're an undergrad.
• 36:06
  Wildman, the undergrad. Yeah.
• 36:09
  And then I met up with Katon Samuels, the national Pogo
• 36:12
  record holder of Jamaica. He's actually my one of my best
• 36:14
  friends now. And he's like, hey, I want you
• 36:17
  to write me this program, weightlessness program.
• 36:19
  I'm looking at him. But I I didn't realize he was
• 36:22
  doing it to inspire me, you know?
• 36:26
  You know, he's kind of, he was doing it.
• 36:28
  So I started writing this program and he's chewing me
• 36:30
  apart. You know, he's like, oh, that's
• 36:32
  not it. You got to write rewrite it.
• 36:34
  So now it turns to me and him training for a summer together
• 36:38
  and we're working out together, running heels and stuff like
• 36:40
  that. And that's when I realized like,
• 36:43
  man, I'm actually a coach. And he, you know, he looked at
• 36:45
  me, he's like, you probably going to be one of the best
• 36:47
  coaches one day. As he looked at me, I'm like,
• 36:49
  OK, but we train all summer. We actually talk almost every
• 36:53
  day still. And he has about 3 kids and he's
• 36:55
  like, I'm, I'm raising them so you can train them now.
• 36:59
  So I go to college and I start running.
• 37:03
  My first year was horrible. I remember my first college
• 37:07
  race, it was like 2400, two hundred.
• 37:10
  It was cold. It was cold up north, long
• 37:12
  winters. And I just told my coach I was
• 37:14
  like, man, it's cold outside. It's been a year off.
• 37:17
  For a kid who grew up up there, by the way, Yeah, yeah, man,
• 37:21
  it's been your whole life. So and then I think my next race
• 37:25
  is like 7080° and I ran 22 two, so one week in 2425, next week
• 37:31
  in 22 two. And she was like, oh, OK.
• 37:34
  And then basically I kind of went up, went to College of my
• 37:38
  freshman year, you know, enjoyed the student life, fun and all
• 37:42
  that stuff. And then I self reflected again.
• 37:45
  That's my second, second time self reflecting.
• 37:48
  I came back, I got into a meeting where they said, you
• 37:51
  know, this percentage of transfer students fail, right?
• 37:55
  And I'm sitting in the room like, man, I must be failing
• 37:56
  because they, they invited me to this meeting.
• 37:58
  And she goes. They're like you're a percentage
• 38:00
  of you guys you so I'm. Like, man, I'm failing.
• 38:05
  And she looks at me, she looks at my grade.
• 38:07
  She's like, it could be better, but you're not failing.
• 38:09
  You can go home and there's like 15 other kids that's I'm the
• 38:13
  only one that's saying is to go home.
• 38:14
  So it's scary. So I go and sit down with one of
• 38:18
  my professors, Celitano, and he's like, if you want to be
• 38:21
  organized, you got to come up with a schedule.
• 38:23
  So now then this, this life experience has helped me because
• 38:27
  now the schedule, the regime and the order you're doing and then
• 38:30
  it's going to relate the track later on.
• 38:31
  Non artistic by the way, scheduling, you know what I'm
• 38:35
  saying? I mean, we are.
• 38:36
  I think we are naturally bent one way or the other.
• 38:40
  And so I'm, I'm getting the sense like, OK, John is a
• 38:42
  creative type. And so when, if, if John is left
• 38:46
  up to his own devices, it's going to be hard and possible
• 38:49
  for you to create a schedule on your like just for you to go,
• 38:52
  you know, I need to get organized.
• 38:53
  That's not, that's not creativity.
• 38:55
  Creativity is not organized. It's messy.
• 38:57
  And so you needed someone to sit to sit you down and be like,
• 39:00
  hey, man, OK, if you want to go through what society is so
• 39:03
  grades and graduate and you're going to have to get some
• 39:06
  structure up in this thing here, that's cool.
• 39:08
  Good for good for you to have that type of leader and mentor
• 39:12
  in front of you. Teacher to to help with that.
• 39:14
  Yeah, so by by that time I got organized, I think my junior
• 39:19
  year between my sophomore and junior, I made presidents,
• 39:22
  Dean's list, stuff like that. I'm looking at it like, man.
• 39:27
  But then there was one problem and I realized I was like, OK, I
• 39:30
  want to go on the coach and I'm taking these classes.
• 39:32
  So my, my, my sophomore year and my, my coach names me captain
• 39:38
  or, you know, so I think I'm working hard, but I'm not
• 39:40
  satisfied. Something's not right.
• 39:42
  I'm not being the best version of who I want to be.
• 39:44
  So I remember going into my coach office and I said, I want
• 39:47
  to step down as captain. And she goes, why?
• 39:50
  I said because if I'm a real leader, they're going to follow
• 39:52
  me regardless. You know, I said, I feel like
• 39:55
  captain, you just get to tell people what to do.
• 39:58
  I said, I don't want to be a captain.
• 39:59
  I want to be a leader. And everybody's, you know, once
• 40:02
  you captain, you never give up that type of power.
• 40:04
  I said, well, I'm not interested in power.
• 40:06
  I want to be a leader. You know, so it's funny because
• 40:10
  that next year we go into practice and the captain's come
• 40:14
  up to me. What do we do?
• 40:17
  And I'm like, I'm just smiling like, OK, so it was, it was
• 40:20
  really funny because from a from a athlete standpoint and from a
• 40:24
  leader standpoint, we had captains.
• 40:27
  And the captains will always have their meeting and then come
• 40:29
  over to me and say, all right, what are we doing?
• 40:30
  And, and I just remember having that conversation with her.
• 40:33
  You know, it's quite fascinating John, hearing that, you know,
• 40:37
  interviewing again, you know, ton of code.
• 40:40
  I don't, I don't know that I don't know that there's very
• 40:42
  many people who have interviewed as many track coaches as I have,
• 40:46
  as in depth as I have. So I, I really get to see and we
• 40:50
  start from, you know, young age, you know, high school at the
• 40:52
  very least, and you know, third grade, 3rd 3 year old for you as
• 40:55
  a boxer and stuff like that. And you know, but I also know
• 40:59
  what 17/18/1920 year old kids are like, right?
• 41:02
  Cuz from one, I was one of them. And you know, I've coached high
• 41:06
  school and college and things like that.
• 41:08
  It it, it surprises me, but maybe it shouldn't that a lot of
• 41:13
  you guys, meaning coaches today showed a lot of maturity and
• 41:18
  humbleness at an early age. Not all of you, by the way, if
• 41:20
  you've listened all of our episodes, you know, we had some
• 41:22
  guys and gals who self admitted knuckleheads as kids.
• 41:27
  But John, you're, you're talking about like, you know, you get
• 41:30
  named captain. It's hard for a 1819 year old
• 41:35
  kid, you're still a kid to give up that ego.
• 41:39
  It's really about ego. Yeah, I understand what you say
• 41:41
  when you say power, but it's like, what real power do you
• 41:42
  have? You know, you still have a coach
• 41:43
  in front of you and things like that.
• 41:45
  But it's ego. It's like, oh, look, I'm
• 41:46
  important. I'm a I'm a captain, I'm
• 41:49
  important. So for you to say to have a
• 41:54
  realization and understanding that, hey, you know what, that's
• 41:58
  cool and all, but I want to be a leader.
• 41:59
  And I think I think you hit the nail on the head.
• 42:01
  I think there is a difference between being named captain and
• 42:04
  being a leader 100%. I, I don't know how to verbalize
• 42:07
  that, but I that resonated a lot.
• 42:10
  What I'm wondering is as a 19 year old ish kid having that
• 42:18
  realization or maturation humbleness that has to be my.
• 42:24
  My experience tells me that that has to have been modeled to you.
• 42:28
  That you had to have had someone in your life where there was a
• 42:31
  family member, teacher, clergy, parent of a best friend
• 42:38
  somewhere. You had to have seen that type
• 42:41
  of humbleness and leadership. Where?
• 42:43
  Where does that come from for you?
• 42:46
  I think it's just my family. So digging a little bit deeper
• 42:50
  into my family, everybody on the women's side of the family is
• 42:52
  doctors, pH, DS, you know, professors.
• 42:57
  I'm the first male in my family to get a bachelor's and a
• 42:59
  master's degree. So my uncles, they always told
• 43:04
  me and showed me like, hey, and my, my uncles went to the
• 43:06
  military. I always, we always got a joke.
• 43:10
  We call it the 50 star family because we, that's how many
• 43:12
  people we had in the military. You know, my, my grandfather
• 43:15
  fought in Vietnam and he got a medal by the president before he
• 43:18
  passed away. So, you know, they, they will
• 43:21
  always tell me, Hey, this is what I'm doing.
• 43:23
  Don't do this, don't do that. So it made me more observant.
• 43:26
  I mean, I, I think that's why it's funny because I feel like
• 43:29
  my growth spurt actually it was, I was downloading.
• 43:32
  I I say it was it was downloading.
• 43:34
  For a long. Time I was very artistic and I
• 43:38
  didn't talk and I just observed. Then when I found my voice and I
• 43:41
  started to OK, now I'm going to start going.
• 43:43
  Now I know what path I'm going to take.
• 43:45
  I start to grow with it and it's very interesting.
• 43:48
  Are you a Marvel fan? Like, do you watch like Avengers
• 43:52
  end game and all that? Yeah.
• 43:53
  Yeah, So I am. I do too.
• 43:55
  I love that stuff. But I'm always fascinated with
• 43:57
  the multiverse, Right. And so when you're saying that
• 44:00
  John, I'm like, Oh my God, what if John would have been 61200 as
• 44:05
  a senior? Maybe John goes into the
• 44:09
  military, you know what I'm saying?
• 44:10
  Like, you know, it's just interesting, like that path.
• 44:14
  And because I love how you put that, you're like, I was still
• 44:16
  downloading. That's another name for growing.
• 44:19
  But I love that the the imagery of like, oh, forgive me for this
• 44:23
  little John. And they're just, they're still
• 44:24
  the everything's still coming in though, you know, height and
• 44:27
  weight, intelligence, humility. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:29
  I love that imagery. What What besides maybe your
• 44:33
  height and I'm going to say this probably the wrong way, John,
• 44:38
  but what helped you? How did you break this is where
• 44:43
  I'm going to say it wrong because it's I'm not correct
• 44:46
  with how I'm saying this. What made you how are you able
• 44:48
  to break the curse of all the males in the boys of that family
• 44:53
  go to the military. And by the way, for you guys
• 44:56
  listening, you heard my cavity out there.
• 44:58
  I was saying that wrong. It's not a curse to go to
• 44:59
  military. My family was military as well.
• 45:02
  I started actually military as a Air Force ROTC scholarship
• 45:05
  winner. So a lot of love and respect for
• 45:07
  our military, but maybe we need more professors and doctors and
• 45:13
  and such as the the women of the boys that family went to.
• 45:16
  And you did not go military. You went more academic and
• 45:19
  teaching coaching route. What what made it for you as as
• 45:22
  one of the first males to to go get a bachelor's and go this
• 45:25
  route versus not a bad route going to the military?
• 45:30
  I think my dream and my passion to a coach and athletics and but
• 45:34
  it's it was always a Plan B. If I fail that life, I guess I,
• 45:38
  you know, good benefits, things like that.
• 45:40
  Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yep.
• 45:41
  I think a lot of people have that and they're like, well, you
• 45:43
  know, I always keep on this route.
• 45:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean that that's the big
• 45:47
  thing. It was just my passion and it
• 45:50
  going back to not failing, right.
• 45:53
  I'll, I'll always put in my mind like any opportunity I get is
• 45:56
  the only opportunity I'm going to get.
• 45:59
  I don't know when my next opportunity is going to come.
• 46:01
  So my, my dad always like throws that in one of my siblings face
• 46:04
  because I took my driver's test one time.
• 46:07
  You know, every test I ever took is one time and they took four
• 46:11
  or five times. And I'm just like, man, I don't
• 46:13
  care how I pass. I got to pass.
• 46:15
  I'm going to try my hardest to pass and just knowing like, Hey,
• 46:19
  I'm going to do this at 100% and, and if I fail, I fail.
• 46:24
  But I'm not going to cry over spilled milk because I know I
• 46:28
  gave my best. I'm, I know I was at a camp, a
• 46:30
  football camp one time and then the Saint Louis Rams tight end
• 46:34
  coaches there. And I, I always remember it's
• 46:37
  like the difference between you and the other person is that
• 46:39
  you're here. And I always think about like,
• 46:42
  what does that mean? And it's, the difference is I
• 46:45
  tried, right? I put 100% whether I felt I was
• 46:49
  too small, overweight or whatever, I put my full effort
• 46:54
  in. And that already separates me
• 46:56
  from the pack because you're going to learn a lot more from
• 46:59
  that failure than any success you can get.
• 47:02
  And I tell my emphasis all the time.
• 47:04
  I said, think about every race you won.
• 47:06
  You get that yay feeling, right? But when you lose and when you
• 47:10
  PR you, you go back and you meditate, you go back and you
• 47:15
  reminisce and you go back and say, what can I do different?
• 47:18
  I said you should fall in love with failing, trying at 110%,
• 47:24
  then running backyard meets and just getting all these medals.
• 47:27
  You learn a lot more from failure and I think at a young
• 47:30
  age I embrace failure. I think that's critical and
• 47:34
  that's obviously a very important part of your story,
• 47:36
  John, from failing at academics and failing at athletics and how
• 47:40
  that has continued to move you towards success today.
• 47:44
  You know, it's so funny. Literally this morning in a
• 47:48
  meeting, I talked about showing up that, you know, showing up
• 47:51
  sometimes is, you know, we'll say is half the battle.
• 47:52
  Sometimes it's more than half the battle.
• 47:54
  And I know plenty of people will say, oh, Mike, that's the that's
• 47:57
  the least we can expect from someone is a show up.
• 47:59
  And it's like, well, you know what?
• 48:00
  The majority of people don't show up.
• 48:02
  I think about, you know, when you were a high school athlete,
• 48:05
  you know, we have something like 1,000,000 or 2 million, a
• 48:08
  million males, roughly 1,000,000, a million females who
• 48:12
  run high school track. Well, there's many, many more
• 48:15
  millions of high school students.
• 48:16
  So way more than half the people don't even try our sport.
• 48:20
  They don't even show up to try our sport.
• 48:22
  And then when you talk about collegiate track and field,
• 48:24
  well, I think it's roughly 7% of high school athletes go on to
• 48:27
  compete collegiately. So again, showing up and being
• 48:32
  able to run college track, that's huge.
• 48:35
  Whether you are, that's why I never, I don't think I have ever
• 48:39
  asked anyone their PR on this podcast except for like a Larry
• 48:44
  Wade, who was, you know, a national, you know, a world
• 48:46
  classer. I'm like, well, what did you end
• 48:47
  up? What was your PR, bro?
• 48:49
  But to me, it doesn't matter, John, whether you were a 45
• 48:53
  second quarter mile or PR or a minute 45 second quarter mile
• 48:57
  PR. That means zip to me.
• 49:01
  Who you are and what you do as a coach means everything to me.
• 49:05
  It doesn't matter how good or not so good of an athlete you
• 49:08
  were. You showed up, you listened and
• 49:10
  took direction from coaches. You formulated that into what
• 49:13
  your career is today, brother. That is, that is all that is
• 49:16
  gold right then and there. So I love, I love your story of
• 49:20
  showing up. I really, you know, I want to
• 49:23
  continue the, the theme, if you will, of the like,
• 49:26
  self-awareness of like, oh, I'm not very good at these things.
• 49:28
  So I need to figure out how to get better at them.
• 49:30
  I love that kind of throughout your story of like, all right,
• 49:33
  man, I'm not very good. I got to figure this out and
• 49:35
  continuing on. So OK, so we're in senior year
• 49:39
  at East Connecticut. You're studying kinesiology.
• 49:41
  That's I could never. That's way too smart for me.
• 49:45
  You're thinking about coaching. What?
• 49:46
  What? Talk to us about your senior
• 49:48
  year, last year of running, OK. The the real world is, you know,
• 49:52
  tomorrow after graduation, Talk to us about that transition.
• 49:56
  So I was thinking, I think I took three classes.
• 49:58
  I was doing an internship under the athletic director at the
• 50:01
  time and I took a creative writing class.
• 50:05
  Of course, of course. And it was, you know, I, it was
• 50:08
  pretty, I got an A in the class and the teacher wanted me to go
• 50:12
  to some type of training with Sports Illustrated.
• 50:15
  It was actually pretty funny. And I'm like, me, not me, but I
• 50:20
  end up having a race or something.
• 50:21
  So I didn't get to go. But seeing here, everyone's
• 50:24
  asking me what am I going to do, right.
• 50:27
  And I remember seeing here, my grandmother was actually
• 50:31
  teaching a class with when an athlete that was coming out of a
• 50:34
  recruit Community College kid and she was getting ready to
• 50:39
  fail this kid. And the kid, I think he got one
• 50:44
  of her papers. He got a 20 on it.
• 50:45
  And then the next time he got a 65 on it.
• 50:49
  And I'm sitting there and I spend the summers with my
• 50:50
  grandmother. I help her out everything.
• 50:53
  And I said, grandma, I said, well, this kid got an 80 on the
• 50:55
  1st test. He got an 80 on the second test
• 50:57
  and he got an 80 on the 3rd test.
• 50:59
  This kid has no progress. This kid is fit.
• 51:01
  It's it's, it's done, it's Australian.
• 51:04
  And she goes, what do you mean? I said, well, you're getting
• 51:06
  ready to fill the kid that showed you 30% progress, and
• 51:11
  this kid showed you zero. Who would you hire?
• 51:14
  And my grandmother was like, yeah, you need to be a coach.
• 51:16
  She's like, you got to be a coach.
• 51:18
  I was like. OK, John, you know, as the host
• 51:22
  of the podcast, it's my show, so I get to push back whenever I
• 51:26
  OK, so I'm going to push back a little bit here, John.
• 51:28
  So I'm going to challenge you is really what it is.
• 51:30
  OK, so let's use that same scenario and let's use the
• 51:33
  quarter mile just maybe because it's easier.
• 51:35
  So if you get a kid in on your campus and let's say they run
• 51:40
  40, let's just use easy numbers. 48 flat for the quarter as a
• 51:43
  freshman and through four years they, they into the senior year,
• 51:48
  they run 48 flat. Yeah, that's their, you know,
• 51:51
  they, they don't, they don't PR, you know, roughly around the
• 51:53
  same, right. But 48 is, you know, is a solid
• 51:57
  leg for you. I have no clue.
• 51:58
  I'm just making up a number here as a solid leg.
• 52:01
  You know, as always, you know, first, second or third in your
• 52:03
  conf, like, you know, they're, they're accomplished for your,
• 52:05
  for your team or you can. And so that's, that's athlete A,
• 52:09
  that's Alvin. And then athlete B, you know,
• 52:13
  Brian comes into your program, ran 52 seconds, walked on your
• 52:17
  program and you know, you know, got better sophomore year,
• 52:21
  junior year, senior year, and by senior year they are running 49
• 52:25
  flat. You're happier with athlete B
• 52:29
  than you are athlete A. To a certain extent, and This is
• 52:33
  why, don't get me wrong. And that's why it's it's like a
• 52:37
  bee, right? Bees are not supposed to fly,
• 52:39
  but they can, right? His work ethic, right, is going
• 52:46
  to be very contagious. And we know track and field, if
• 52:51
  you have one negative person in that group, it's it's over.
• 52:55
  So I like the grinders. They and they, they need to
• 52:59
  understand. I don't have captains on my
• 53:01
  team. We have leaders and you need to
• 53:02
  understand your strengths and weaknesses.
• 53:04
  I assumed you did something different with your captains.
• 53:07
  I was going to get into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:09
  Yeah, we have. Everybody needs to know
• 53:11
  everyone's strengths and weaknesses.
• 53:13
  And when your strengths is caught, you need to step up
• 53:16
  right So. Which one of those athletes are
• 53:19
  you putting on the anchor of your Champ Conference
• 53:21
  championship team? The anchor I'm putting the
• 53:24
  slowest kid on the on the anchor.
• 53:26
  John, you know I tiefers exist. I can go and look, no?
• 53:30
  No, no. So if I have 4 kids, right, my
• 53:34
  four fastest kids, whoever has the slowest time goes on anchor.
• 53:37
  OK, so it's a strategy you employ as a coach.
• 53:40
  All right, All right, all right, all right.
• 53:42
  I want, I want to, I want to create a moment and I want to
• 53:45
  put the pressure on. Well, Dang, when you say it that
• 53:49
  way. All right.
• 53:49
  Well, I'm going to take. I'm going to take the 48 kid all
• 53:52
  day. I love the 49 kid.
• 53:53
  Oh. You mean from those two that you
• 53:55
  gave? I'm I'm putting the 48 kid on
• 53:57
  there. Well, that's what I said, John,
• 53:58
  I'm still on athlete aid athlete B here because you're telling me
• 54:01
  like, oh, the kid progresses like, well, the other kid got
• 54:02
  80% on his test. It's still the best score.
• 54:05
  So he's, he's got to be the favorite one.
• 54:07
  All right, let's keep going. All right, keep going, keep
• 54:09
  going. So what are you going to do your
• 54:10
  senior year? I, I love that question because
• 54:12
  you get that your senior year in high school, right?
• 54:13
  Senior year in college, it's all over again.
• 54:15
  So what are you going to do? So my, my senior year, I'll go
• 54:17
  back to my, I'm a monitor, walk across the stage and start
• 54:19
  coaching the next day. We had my coaching, my sister, I
• 54:24
  think at the time, I believe she was like 15 in the country at
• 54:27
  Hammer. And I was, I was driving her
• 54:29
  down the Long Island to train with Patty Russ.
• 54:33
  So, and I'm watching her. And then we go to nationals.
• 54:36
  I think we take a 200 kid and 400 kid, both relays and A and a
• 54:41
  triple jumper or a long jumper and I go through and it felt
• 54:44
  really good. You know, we go to Nationals,
• 54:46
  A&T, we go down there and I get back and I start applying for
• 54:52
  jobs and I'm applying for GA positions and.
• 54:56
  What kind of jobs? Like track jobs or like actually
• 54:58
  jobs? Track and track jobs.
• 55:00
  College or high school or mix of both?
• 55:02
  College, yeah. College jobs, I realized I
• 55:06
  couldn't coach. I was a decent high school
• 55:08
  coach, but the number of kids right, and trying to get that
• 55:14
  high quality, that was a struggle for me.
• 55:17
  I couldn't. It was too many bodies.
• 55:23
  So I said, hey, I want to do something a little bit more
• 55:25
  concentrated. So I went off to went to get a
• 55:30
  grad assistant position in Massachusetts.
• 55:34
  I'll say that. I took that job and I remember
• 55:37
  telling my sister, I'm leaving and that was the last time she
• 55:39
  threw a hammer. Yeah, she was, She was, she was
• 55:43
  very upset. She went to college on a full
• 55:46
  ride. Coach called me everyday, hey,
• 55:48
  can we get out here? It's like she's probably not
• 55:51
  coming out so. But she, I think she enjoyed it.
• 55:56
  She was, I think Patty's one of the best coaches, arguably,
• 56:01
  especially in Hammer. She got a chance to be trained
• 56:04
  by someone. She got the experience.
• 56:07
  It's funny because she messaged me I think like 2-3 years ago.
• 56:09
  Like do you think it's too late to come back?
• 56:11
  I was like, it's never too. Late.
• 56:12
  Never too late. That's right.
• 56:14
  Especially still in your 20s. So yeah, so I went to Regis
• 56:18
  College. Now I'm at Regis and I'm I get a
• 56:21
  new chance to prove that I'm an academic dog, right?
• 56:25
  That was the most thing I was excited about.
• 56:27
  No one has ever said those two words together, by the way.
• 56:31
  I've never heard anybody say I'm an academic dog.
• 56:33
  I got, you know, I'm a linebacker dog.
• 56:35
  I'm a court of mind. No one says I'm an academic dog.
• 56:38
  I love that. It's so cool.
• 56:39
  So, so I mean, I, I go there with something to prove, a chip
• 56:42
  on my shoulder and everyone's like coaching.
• 56:44
  I'm like coaching now I'm going to I'm going to try to get a 3.5
• 56:48
  or above and and for my cumulative GPA and everyone's
• 56:52
  looking at me crazy like you're going to go coat.
• 56:55
  So I'm like, no, I'm going to go prove academically because
• 56:57
  undergrad I was, I was, you know, you know, I was just under
• 57:02
  a three-point O an undergrad. So I go there and I'm I'm
• 57:06
  excelling. I think I've graduated with A36.
• 57:09
  What was your math? Health Administration.
• 57:12
  Yeah, dude. OK.
• 57:14
  So I'll get with a three, six, we won three conference
• 57:18
  championships in two years. Wow, first time in program
• 57:20
  history. What event group were you
• 57:23
  working on? Because you're a little variety
• 57:25
  here, you know, so. I was Sprint, jumps and hurdles.
• 57:29
  Yeah. OK.
• 57:29
  All right. Yeah.
• 57:30
  Ed Regis, great school. Yeah.
• 57:32
  And I assisted with cross country as well.
• 57:36
  So I went there and I remember going there and I remember we
• 57:40
  had Fatima St. Hilarious.
• 57:42
  She was a long jumper, talented, talented.
• 57:45
  I think she won like 8 events at conference and she came in, I
• 57:51
  think she was coming, came in at like a four foot jumper.
• 57:55
  And then she ended up going like 558 meters in like 2 years.
• 58:00
  But it was it was pretty interesting there very because I
• 58:04
  got to meet Halston Taylor like I knew him because we competed.
• 58:08
  You know, we see him all the time and Hostin Taylor is
• 58:11
  probably a huge, huge had a huge impact on how I view track and
• 58:18
  field from great dude money making standpoint.
• 58:21
  Yeah. So, so talk to us about that.
• 58:23
  What that there's, there's lessons there.
• 58:25
  He he imparted lessons on you. So now you get to carry on the
• 58:27
  Hostin Taylor legacy. What what, what kind of advice?
• 58:31
  What did you take to hire from him?
• 58:33
  Well, he, I mean, I remember one time I wrote something up from
• 58:35
  him and he, he just gave it back to me.
• 58:38
  And I like, I mean the fact that he told me it wasn't good
• 58:41
  enough. What do you mean you wrote
• 58:43
  something like a workout? No, he wanted me to write up
• 58:48
  team rules, a coaching philosophy, things like that,
• 58:51
  and he gave it back to me. But most people look at this and
• 58:55
  get upset. But you got to really think
• 58:57
  about it. If you care for somebody, most
• 58:59
  of the time you're going to give it back and give you give you
• 59:02
  critique and then open the door to come back and return.
• 59:05
  So then I knew, OK, this is someone that actually genuinely
• 59:08
  sees something in me, right? A lot of us is too, you know,
• 59:11
  we, we run away too fast when someone give you that
• 59:14
  constructive criticism. Hawson looks at me in my eyes
• 59:17
  and says, we know you can coach, but can you do the other stuff?
• 59:21
  And I look at Hawson. I'm like one other stuff.
• 59:23
  Yeah. What do you mean?
• 59:24
  Yeah? You know, the phone calls, the
• 59:26
  fundraising, all that stuff, and he's showing me everything he's
• 59:29
  showing me, you know, the tricks, the firm reasons.
• 59:32
  Now you're at Regis. Halston is at.
• 59:35
  Halston is MIT. Yeah, I was driving hours to
• 59:38
  meet. Oh.
• 59:38
  This is interesting. Yeah, I was, I was because it's
• 59:42
  one thing I love this coach mentor, young coach mentee
• 59:48
  relationship. We need more of that.
• 59:49
  And in fact, and I and I hope this podcast helps with that,
• 59:52
  you know, seeing young coaches and older coaches, more
• 59:55
  experienced coaches, etcetera. So here's a coach who I, I mean,
• 59:58
  has no. Nothing benefits him from
• 1:00:01
  helping you. And by the way, he's got his own
• 1:00:03
  things, right? He's he's a head coach of a, a
• 1:00:06
  very good D3 program. You know, he's got his own kids
• 1:00:09
  to worry about recruits and life and things like that.
• 1:00:11
  And here he is pouring into you. That's that's awesome.
• 1:00:16
  So I mean, definitely, and I think that helps because it
• 1:00:20
  helps now, even today when I'm in meetings and you know, a lot
• 1:00:24
  of people like cut track. You know, a lot of people say,
• 1:00:26
  hey, cut track at universities and we don't talk about the
• 1:00:29
  revenue from tuition track and field could bring, right?
• 1:00:33
  I think that's very everyone says track and field doesn't
• 1:00:35
  make money, right? Every meeting, but no one talks
• 1:00:38
  about the revenue tracking bill brings guarantee money from from
• 1:00:47
  from the yeah, tuition or tuition.
• 1:00:49
  Sorry. So I'm knocked on the door.
• 1:00:51
  Yeah, yeah. It's all good.
• 1:00:52
  Futures meaning alumni donations.
• 1:00:54
  Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly.
• 1:00:55
  Right. No one talks about that.
• 1:00:56
  And that's something Austin told me.
• 1:00:58
  You know, he he told me when he first started the program, he
• 1:01:01
  went after certain majors because he knew those majors
• 1:01:03
  make money and he he knew he looked at the long term, short
• 1:01:06
  term realistic, long term optimistic.
• 1:01:10
  So, yeah, I, I think from that standpoint, I learned a lot
• 1:01:15
  about that. And then Jeff Boston North, I've
• 1:01:20
  spent some time with Jeff. I ran for with them, with their
• 1:01:24
  club team as well and learned what you guys Steven had me at
• 1:01:27
  the time. So I'm just gathering all this
• 1:01:29
  information again, you know, just picking my brain.
• 1:01:31
  I'm picking his brain. I'm like, hey, I'm going to
• 1:01:33
  coach, I'm coaching. I got some time and then even a
• 1:01:36
  Kebble at Harvard, I spent a short amount of time with
• 1:01:39
  watching. That's when he had Gabby there
• 1:01:42
  and I was just watching. Keb was very a very interesting
• 1:01:46
  guy. I mean, he's very laid back.
• 1:01:47
  I was, I'm like, so you don't have to be like this all the
• 1:01:51
  time, Kevin walks in. Yeah, he is the opposite.
• 1:01:54
  Yeah, most, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:57
  He's very intelligent. Guild Connections OG, by the
• 1:02:01
  way, I think he was guest #5 he was in single digits and we had
• 1:02:05
  such a great time with him. We only got halfway through the
• 1:02:07
  story before we had to break. So he actually has a Part 2 as
• 1:02:10
  well. So if you guys know Cava Tolbert
• 1:02:12
  or want to know more about Cava Tolbert at Harvard, I highly
• 1:02:15
  encourage you to look in the same app they're using here and
• 1:02:18
  search up his name. Fascinating journey as well from
• 1:02:21
  him and where he came up to where he is today.
• 1:02:23
  So sorry, John, you mentioned cable.
• 1:02:25
  One of my favorite people in the whole world.
• 1:02:26
  So I just had to had to plug them.
• 1:02:27
  Yeah. Keep going, keep going.
• 1:02:29
  So, yeah, I mean, he, he, I remember after he came in,
• 1:02:32
  didn't want to train and he like, you're not going to make
• 1:02:34
  him. He's like, no, he's like we've
• 1:02:36
  got seven days a week. He's like, as long as you get
• 1:02:38
  these workouts in, we're fine on me.
• 1:02:40
  I'm like, OK, so I mean, it was a very, I think I spent probably
• 1:02:44
  a month, two days out, two days out of the week.
• 1:02:47
  And my I'm in Regis Weston. So I'm driving hours to have
• 1:02:51
  communication with these people. And then my first time in
• 1:02:54
  Massachusetts, I didn't know how heck the city was.
• 1:02:56
  And I remember. Saying, hey, I'm going to.
• 1:02:58
  I'm going to go into the city for for lunch.
• 1:03:00
  I'll be back in the hour and everyone, everyone just let me
• 1:03:02
  go. And I came back at 5:00 PM and
• 1:03:05
  everyone just started laughing. I was like, man, the traffic
• 1:03:08
  here, that was my. 1st it's unbelievable in Boston, baby.
• 1:03:12
  So I'm like, man, so everyone was laughing, my boss was
• 1:03:15
  laughing and stuff like that. But you know, Regions really
• 1:03:19
  helped me from a standpoint because at first my first year I
• 1:03:22
  thought I was lucky. Well, oh, I got these good
• 1:03:24
  athletes, maybe I'm lucky. And then I when I got there back
• 1:03:28
  to nationals the second year, I'm like, maybe I belong, you
• 1:03:32
  know, that was that was the big thing.
• 1:03:35
  But Regis was proven that I could be academically strong and
• 1:03:39
  coach at the same time. You know, I think when you talk
• 1:03:43
  about Aga position, I think more people who go through track and
• 1:03:48
  field coaching GAS should not go on to become a coach.
• 1:03:51
  And what I mean by that, not because they don't have the
• 1:03:53
  ability and things like that is, you know, AG8 position is still
• 1:03:57
  supposed to be part of your like do I want to be a coach process?
• 1:04:00
  You know, now I think the the percentages of the GAS for
• 1:04:04
  tracking field that actually go on a coach are is probably much
• 1:04:06
  higher. It's not 100%, but you know,
• 1:04:07
  it's probably 8090%. But so as you're going through
• 1:04:11
  your GA and you're coaching Regis and you're, you know, I
• 1:04:12
  mean, you're just soaking up now.
• 1:04:14
  I mean, you're just like this sponge man of like and really
• 1:04:17
  good things are getting poured into that sponge.
• 1:04:19
  It's really quite amazing as you go through that, you know,
• 1:04:24
  usually I ask the question, are you committed to coaching track
• 1:04:27
  and field at this point? It seemed like you are already
• 1:04:29
  like the dial was already like I am a track coach.
• 1:04:31
  The only reason why I did the GA position is because my, I don't
• 1:04:35
  think my AD tricked me at the time, but she's like you're
• 1:04:37
  going to need a bastard to coach.
• 1:04:39
  So I'm like, oh all right, I got to get this done.
• 1:04:42
  And when I was at Regions, I also did the what?
• 1:04:44
  I think it's the USTFCCI. Did my strength condition under
• 1:04:48
  Boo as well. Another great podcast guest that
• 1:04:52
  we've had here, in fact, our number one episode is Boo Shack
• 1:04:54
  Snyder. Boo.
• 1:04:56
  Boo. I mean, it was funny because Boo
• 1:04:57
  was speaking French in the class and I could pick up on some of
• 1:05:00
  it. He looked at me.
• 1:05:01
  I looked at him. You speak French?
• 1:05:04
  I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm pull.
• 1:05:05
  I'm pull, yeah. It was pretty funny.
• 1:05:08
  Boo's pretty laid back too. He gave me his contact.
• 1:05:11
  I mean, I'm pretty sure he gives everybody his contact, so I'm no
• 1:05:14
  one special. Yeah, no, no, hold on.
• 1:05:16
  I knew you were going to follow up and say I'm no one special.
• 1:05:18
  First of all, he probably does. He is selective though.
• 1:05:21
  He ain't given everybody, but sure he does because he's a
• 1:05:23
  giver. The real like treasure that Boo
• 1:05:27
  is, is he will answer everybody who contacts him.
• 1:05:31
  You know that. That's his real treasure.
• 1:05:33
  You are someone special. Don't I hate when people say,
• 1:05:35
  well, I'm no one special. First of all, you got to know
• 1:05:38
  and meet Boo. That's special.
• 1:05:39
  I mean, in our world there's a lot of us, but it ain't
• 1:05:41
  everybody. And by the way, outside of our
• 1:05:43
  world, it's nobody, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:05:44
  So that that is very special. And he's special.
• 1:05:47
  So that that is a special connection.
• 1:05:49
  And. I remember.
• 1:05:50
  That's my mentor from coaching, so I am always, you know, I love
• 1:05:53
  that man to death to death. And I, I remember how intense
• 1:05:55
  his class was. So like at that point I was
• 1:05:59
  going into my second year. I'm like, if I can get a high
• 1:06:01
  grade in this class, I know I belong.
• 1:06:04
  I remember, I think I got a 98 in the course.
• 1:06:08
  I was just like, OK, I'm going to go with this.
• 1:06:10
  And I started writing programs. I actually whenever I, I get too
• 1:06:15
  creative, I go back. I created something based off of
• 1:06:17
  that and I call it the Holy Grail.
• 1:06:19
  And I go back because sometimes you get too creative, like your
• 1:06:22
  golf swing, you get that. You try to add a little bit and
• 1:06:24
  then next thing you know, you got way off from what your golf
• 1:06:27
  coach taught you, right? So then you got to go back to
• 1:06:29
  Ground Zero. So double click into that
• 1:06:31
  because that, that's interesting.
• 1:06:34
  I love how it, it ties again right into your, you know,
• 1:06:36
  creativity spirit that you, you were born with.
• 1:06:40
  So you have this kind of like, I'm gonna call it the
• 1:06:42
  fundamentals almost of like, OK, here's what you got to be
• 1:06:45
  getting done and what's got to be happening.
• 1:06:49
  Coaching is an art form. There is, you know, our artistic
• 1:06:52
  leeway for things. And you said when I get too far
• 1:06:56
  from the core, the fundamentals, I have this Holy Grail, I come
• 1:06:59
  back and kind of center myself. That's that's what I heard that
• 1:07:02
  sound. How do you know when you're
• 1:07:06
  straying too far, right, Because like there is this like if this
• 1:07:10
  is your, your, your, your center, your fundamentals, you
• 1:07:13
  know, you can play out here, but over here and and if you're not
• 1:07:16
  watching YouTube, you have no idea where my hands are.
• 1:07:17
  I get, but you're you're way over here.
• 1:07:20
  How do you recognize I'm here? So, oh, I need to come back to
• 1:07:24
  the center. How do you how do you feel that
• 1:07:26
  or how how does that happen? For me, it's, it's that rapport
• 1:07:31
  you build with your athletes, along with the times and stats.
• 1:07:35
  After every workout, I'm asking my athletes to tell you, how did
• 1:07:37
  you feel? What did you feel from this?
• 1:07:39
  What you know, did your kinesthetic awareness improve?
• 1:07:42
  I told my athletes I don't want athletes.
• 1:07:43
  I want student athletes, Right. So every workout we do, I tell
• 1:07:47
  them, this is what you should be feeling.
• 1:07:49
  This is why we're doing that. This is a phase that way.
• 1:07:52
  Because I remember when I was an athlete, I can feel what
• 1:07:55
  workouts work, right? And I might not like that
• 1:07:58
  feeling if it's a broken day. Oh yeah, coach, you know, and
• 1:08:02
  some of my actually, oh, my, my, my quads feel full.
• 1:08:05
  I'm like, OK, that's good, that's good.
• 1:08:06
  That's the pain we want, coach, we want this pain.
• 1:08:09
  Yes, that's the good pain. Is it a stabbing pain or is the
• 1:08:12
  burning pain? Oh, is it burning?
• 1:08:13
  OK, that's lactate. What what you know, athlete a
• 1:08:17
  meat lactate. But, you know, I, I think you
• 1:08:22
  have to be very observant. And Jeremy Fisher, I talked to
• 1:08:25
  him when I went to San Diego. You know what, John, you're just
• 1:08:29
  naming all these Guild podcast alums.
• 1:08:31
  I love it. Great friend John Jeremy Fisher,
• 1:08:34
  also a podcast alum. You guys got to listen to that
• 1:08:36
  episode. Keep going, keep on.
• 1:08:37
  Yo. I need like a little button
• 1:08:39
  every time a podcast alum gets named like, you know, a little
• 1:08:41
  bell that just so you recognize, like, all right, that dude or
• 1:08:44
  dude that was on the show, go listen to him.
• 1:08:46
  Keep going. Keep you know, I remember like
• 1:08:48
  talking to him about my coaching philosophy and you know, he he
• 1:08:52
  very sad. Yeah, use your paintbrush like
• 1:08:54
  but always have a cord. And I told him that.
• 1:08:56
  So like, you know, it's pretty funny because he he I told him
• 1:09:01
  like my coaching flossy went through it and stuff like that,
• 1:09:03
  and he basically definitely motivated me to keep being
• 1:09:08
  creative. But you got to have that that
• 1:09:10
  controlled variable, right? That go back to biology IVDV.
• 1:09:14
  So you know, you have that, that athlete where everything you're
• 1:09:17
  doing is not working. So then you pay more attention
• 1:09:20
  to that athlete because I I find that athlete and this is where
• 1:09:24
  it goes back to that kid that's most improved.
• 1:09:26
  If it's helping the lower, the more, the more developmental, we
• 1:09:31
  call it developmental group. If it's giving a high spike in
• 1:09:34
  the developmental group, what is it going to do for that elite
• 1:09:37
  group, right? If that developmental group goes
• 1:09:40
  from I had a kid that Katie on, he went from 25 in high school
• 1:09:44
  to 21, three in a year, right? So what, what was that base in
• 1:09:49
  his training? You know, some something that
• 1:09:52
  was creative in his training might become part of the base.
• 1:09:57
  And, and that's kind of weird. That's why I like having those
• 1:09:59
  grinders, because those grinders you can get a little bit, you
• 1:10:02
  can use your paintbrush a little bit, and then you can see when
• 1:10:05
  you document what's consistent. How do you?
• 1:10:09
  How do you do you or do you not? And therefore, how do you when
• 1:10:14
  you have a a more accomplished athlete versus it really is just
• 1:10:18
  kind of maybe training age, right?
• 1:10:19
  So you have a a younger athlete that comes into your program
• 1:10:23
  hasn't run track for very long or hasn't run, you know, maybe
• 1:10:25
  didn't do weights or something like that in high school.
• 1:10:27
  And you have your kids who are, you know, conference finalists,
• 1:10:31
  you know, they're more accomplished.
• 1:10:32
  They've been in your program for a few years.
• 1:10:33
  How do you like not treat the more elite, more accomplished
• 1:10:41
  athletes different? What I mean by that is like you
• 1:10:45
  have the center line this, these fundamentals, which I think is
• 1:10:47
  highly important. I, I, I think that's super smart
• 1:10:50
  and it, it's easy for us to go, oh, well, this, you know, using
• 1:10:54
  those athlete A and athlete B that we had earlier.
• 1:10:56
  I have a 42nd quarter Miller. Well, I need to be doing a
• 1:10:58
  little bit extra stuff for them because, you know, they, they,
• 1:11:03
  they're more accomplished when in reality, it's like, no, no,
• 1:11:05
  they still need to be very, very good in the fundamentals.
• 1:11:07
  How do you not get caught up in the the times or distances and
• 1:11:13
  try to do something differently with them versus your developing
• 1:11:18
  athletes? I might be asking a little
• 1:11:20
  awkwardly. I think I get what you're
• 1:11:22
  saying. I think it's all about culture
• 1:11:24
  and the program and that, Remember, I don't have captains
• 1:11:27
  leadership, right? And knowing your strengths and
• 1:11:29
  weaknesses. So that's also knowing identity.
• 1:11:31
  If you're a developmental athlete, you need to know that.
• 1:11:34
  But I let them practice together because the art that happens
• 1:11:37
  there from that elite athlete gets to look at that
• 1:11:40
  developmental athlete can admire and and reminisce.
• 1:11:44
  I remember when I was there, right?
• 1:11:46
  And I don't want to get back there.
• 1:11:47
  So I better I better, I better grind today, right?
• 1:11:51
  And that that elite athlete can motivate that that younger
• 1:11:54
  athlete. And now he's being coached and
• 1:11:57
  doing a little bit of coaching. Hey, coach.
• 1:12:00
  So I my, my, my elite athletes are also learning how to coach
• 1:12:03
  and practice. Hey, coach, I'm CNSXYZ.
• 1:12:05
  Yeah. You remember when you used to do
• 1:12:06
  this? OK, Go tell them because I, I
• 1:12:11
  mean, I'm 31, it's been about 10 years since I've been in
• 1:12:14
  college, so I might not know how that feels.
• 1:12:17
  And the language is changing today too, as well.
• 1:12:19
  I'm with the kids as well. And the way they communicate,
• 1:12:23
  you know, and the way you learn is different.
• 1:12:26
  So having that culture of having the lower kids there and they
• 1:12:30
  understand. I tell my actors, I'm not trying
• 1:12:32
  to get the most out of you in four years.
• 1:12:34
  I got the Kobe Bryant book and he talks about how he want to
• 1:12:39
  master 2, you know, 2 skills a year.
• 1:12:43
  And by year 8 he'll be, you know, he'll have a whole bunch
• 1:12:48
  of skills in his bag now. But if he tried to master every
• 1:12:51
  15 skills in one year, he'll be a master of none.
• 1:12:54
  So he's one to two a year and I tell him I have to let's master
• 1:12:57
  one thing this year, one thing this year, that year.
• 1:13:00
  Make it a four year plan. That way you're not burnt out,
• 1:13:04
  that way you don't peak and then you go on a, you know, you go on
• 1:13:07
  a one year draw at a time. Let's take it step by step and
• 1:13:10
  let's look at it from a really developmental standpoint and
• 1:13:13
  then put the components together so they how?
• 1:13:17
  Do you? That's interesting.
• 1:13:20
  And it reminds me of Joe Newton, famous high school coach at York
• 1:13:25
  High School here in Illinois. And I hope I'm not
• 1:13:28
  misattributing this, but my memory serves that he had some
• 1:13:32
  amaze now passed away. Amazing distance runners like
• 1:13:35
  Don Sage was a either a sub four or 44 flat four O 1 Miller and
• 1:13:40
  tons of other Marius back in. I mean, just he produced a lot
• 1:13:42
  of really good collegiate people that would go on to run in
• 1:13:46
  college. And there used to be a an
• 1:13:50
  argument with him about like, maybe you shouldn't do.
• 1:13:53
  I think he was a high mileage guy.
• 1:13:54
  So you shouldn't be doing these high mileages with these high
• 1:13:57
  schoolers because you're getting everything out of them at at 18
• 1:14:01
  years old. They don't develop when they go
• 1:14:03
  to college. That wasn't necessarily true.
• 1:14:05
  But in his rebuttal to that was, you know, most of my kids are
• 1:14:09
  not going on to college here. I know it's cool to talk about
• 1:14:12
  these, you know, 4 flat guys, but most of the kids are not
• 1:14:15
  going on to run. I remember 7%, roughly 7% going
• 1:14:18
  to college. So I'm going to give them the
• 1:14:21
  best experience they can in high school.
• 1:14:23
  And that resonated with me. It's like makes a lot of sense.
• 1:14:24
  You know, 99% of his kids aren't going on to college.
• 1:14:26
  So make this the greatest experience they can have and get
• 1:14:29
  to be as good as they can in college.
• 1:14:33
  I think of that same thing again, 99 Percent, 99.9% of all
• 1:14:37
  of our kids even, you know. Mouse is another Guild Podcast
• 1:14:40
  alum and so I was like good friends.
• 1:14:42
  I like to use him as an example. Even Mouse at Florida highly
• 1:14:44
  accomplished 99%, maybe 9898% of his kids aren't going pro right.
• 1:14:49
  So this is the last time they're going to run track.
• 1:14:51
  John, for you, 99.9% of your kids are not going to go on to
• 1:14:54
  run professionally. But you just what I heard was,
• 1:14:57
  but I don't want them to be peeked out by the time they
• 1:15:00
  graduate. Well, that's the last time
• 1:15:01
  they're going to run track. Do you do you not ever think
• 1:15:03
  about like, man, I better hammer them for four or five years
• 1:15:05
  because it's over 22 years old. It's over for the majority.
• 1:15:10
  No, because I don't want to kill the sport of track.
• 1:15:12
  What I mean by that is, you know, I want them to still have
• 1:15:15
  that passion to do it if they want to, right?
• 1:15:20
  I don't I don't see as long as they're improving, if you PR
• 1:15:23
  each week, you'll eventually get to where you need to be.
• 1:15:26
  I want the athlete to be able to walk out and say I want to
• 1:15:29
  continue pursuing, right? Because if if you burn an
• 1:15:31
  athlete out in four years, First off, you're not going to get a
• 1:15:34
  donor, right? You know how you know, I know a
• 1:15:38
  lot of people that are in track and they're hurt, you know, and
• 1:15:41
  that then that that hurt. A lot of negative feelings
• 1:15:44
  towards their experience. Yeah, so I, I think it's more
• 1:15:47
  important than right. Don't get me wrong, we still
• 1:15:49
  prioritize performance. Yeah.
• 1:15:51
  But I think to letting them walk out and say, hey, I want to
• 1:15:56
  continue to pursue track because I feel like a lot of those kids
• 1:16:00
  that they get close enough. Like if Dion Dion's a sophomore
• 1:16:03
  right now, he runs 10/5 and I'm telling like, if you run 10
• 1:16:06
  three, you got an option, right? You could postpone going to the
• 1:16:10
  real world, or you can go pay a coach to see what they can do.
• 1:16:13
  But I want to send my kids out the door.
• 1:16:15
  What an option. You know what?
• 1:16:18
  All that proves, John, as you're much smarter and longer term
• 1:16:21
  thinking that I was as a coach because I'm like, man, I ain't
• 1:16:24
  got you after a senior year. So I'm going to get everything.
• 1:16:26
  All right, All right, let's get back Regis Graduate School.
• 1:16:29
  You do a great job academically as well as I want to say
• 1:16:32
  athletically, but coachingly there.
• 1:16:34
  What happens after Regis? Or I go up to Utica College.
• 1:16:38
  Yeah, the. Pioneers.
• 1:16:41
  You're pioneers. I did their hurdles a couple
• 1:16:44
  years ago and they're beautiful. They were one of my favorite
• 1:16:47
  hurdle designs ever. So I remember Utica very well.
• 1:16:49
  So you go to Utica with? Jim.
• 1:16:52
  Jim, I almost said. John.
• 1:16:53
  Jim yes, yes, yes, yes. Love him.
• 1:16:56
  I call him Megamind. Jim is probably Jim is.
• 1:16:59
  It's funny, I just finished texting Jim the other day.
• 1:17:01
  I call him Megamind. He's very creative, very
• 1:17:04
  intelligent and smart. I think he was valedictorian of
• 1:17:06
  his class out of high school. Too so I can't even spell
• 1:17:09
  valedictorian. That's awesome.
• 1:17:12
  Jim probably one of the best bosses I've I've had as far as
• 1:17:17
  organization and structure. Funny funny story, still young
• 1:17:22
  at the time. I go work for Jim, they have the
• 1:17:24
  bro. Bro, you're 31.
• 1:17:25
  You're still young today. Relax.
• 1:17:27
  All right? And they have the bubble and I
• 1:17:30
  just remember being this young motivated guy.
• 1:17:32
  And we have this meeting about blasting music too loud with
• 1:17:35
  curse words. And I remember the next morning
• 1:17:37
  I come in about, dude, it's like Week 2 on the job.
• 1:17:40
  We're blasting music. Jim comes in, he's like, dude,
• 1:17:43
  we do. I was like, but there's no, I
• 1:17:44
  was like, no curse words because but the music laughed like, oh,
• 1:17:47
  and me and Jim go back into the office and we started laughing.
• 1:17:51
  Funny thing is, nobody from the neighborhood made a complaint
• 1:17:54
  about the music being loud that morning.
• 1:17:56
  So Jim looks at Jim, goes and I apologize to the AD at the time.
• 1:18:00
  And the AD said nobody called. And so Jim said, maybe there's
• 1:18:04
  the curse words that people that's why people complain about
• 1:18:06
  it. So it was funny.
• 1:18:09
  And I think like we blasted music maybe two or three more
• 1:18:11
  times after that with no curse words.
• 1:18:13
  Nobody complained, but at Utica it was a really good experience.
• 1:18:20
  Jim let me do whatever I wanted. We had Isha and a COVID.
• 1:18:24
  COVID hurt, you know, because yeah, Isha and a Coville
• 1:18:27
  Jackson, she was a, she was a 200 girl.
• 1:18:29
  I think she came in running 29 and we got her down in like 25.
• 1:18:34
  But I was running the strength conditioning program, all jumps,
• 1:18:38
  hurdles and Maltese and Jim would just let me flow and
• 1:18:44
  that's when I learned more. The administrative, he's very
• 1:18:47
  thorough. He'll type up Excel sheet, bus,
• 1:18:50
  bus schedules with everybody names, see the assignments.
• 1:18:53
  Oh wow, wow. Yeah, no, though, Jim, Jim is
• 1:18:56
  really good. And then he would take like 10
• 1:19:01
  kids this. You're going to go grab
• 1:19:03
  equipment, all right? You're going to go grab
• 1:19:06
  equipment and stuff like that. Like he would every every week a
• 1:19:09
  different kid. Then we had G as underneath us
• 1:19:13
  and he let me manage the recruiting with the G as as
• 1:19:16
  well. And we do me, we had a kid.
• 1:19:19
  We will go back and forth. I think we brought in like 100
• 1:19:22
  kids one year. We do mail merge.
• 1:19:25
  We'll mail merge and send them out in the mail.
• 1:19:28
  I think a lot of schools see the money with sending the the
• 1:19:33
  letters in the mail and they don't want to do that no more.
• 1:19:35
  Everything's electronic. But man, we would get random
• 1:19:38
  people showing up to the school like hey, I got this, this
• 1:19:41
  letter in the mail. Never respond and bring it on
• 1:19:43
  the first day of school and said I'm here to run track.
• 1:19:46
  Wow. Hey, there's probably a a
• 1:19:49
  section of us listening right now that doesn't know what mail
• 1:19:51
  merge means. Would you explain that a little
• 1:19:53
  bit? Maybe someone maybe this helps
• 1:19:55
  someone, they start doing it. So we, it's basically where you,
• 1:19:59
  you put on Excel sheet. You I have the Excel sheet with
• 1:20:03
  every high school in Connecticut, E address and then
• 1:20:06
  the guidance counselor name. You put the athlete name on
• 1:20:09
  there. And then you pack it up in an
• 1:20:10
  envelope and we, we literally had to put them in an envelope
• 1:20:14
  ourselves. And you put it in the mail and
• 1:20:15
  you send it to the kid high school and a high school of
• 1:20:18
  counselor or AD gives it to the kid.
• 1:20:20
  So so the mail merge is the taking the data that you have in
• 1:20:22
  Excel and put it on a label, right?
• 1:20:26
  So, so how did you do that that that's on like the actual like
• 1:20:29
  nuts and bolts. How did you actually do that?
• 1:20:31
  So we had Aga Sunid. He coached for a little while.
• 1:20:35
  I'm kind of upset that he got out of coaching.
• 1:20:37
  He's a distance kid. I told you it wasn't 100% GA
• 1:20:40
  school on the. Coach yeah, we would.
• 1:20:42
  We would take States and we will have a competition get every
• 1:20:46
  high school in the state address.
• 1:20:47
  And we created an Excel sheet. I still have it today.
• 1:20:52
  And we created an excel sheet where when you put the high
• 1:20:54
  school, it automatically filled everything in.
• 1:20:57
  So then we got the Excel sheet and then we'll do like I forgot
• 1:21:00
  the setting. There's a setting where it'll
• 1:21:02
  auto print emails for every kid and it was just printed on the
• 1:21:07
  printer and they print out the labels.
• 1:21:09
  You had to buy the label paper and then you had the the actual
• 1:21:12
  letter and it will automatically switch the kids names and when
• 1:21:16
  we were literally hand packaging all of them.
• 1:21:19
  So it's a function inside of Excel that takes the debt.
• 1:21:23
  So you got to get the data, but then instead of going to the
• 1:21:26
  template for the labels or even on each envelope, instead of
• 1:21:31
  handwriting those, which would take you forever, it takes, OK,
• 1:21:35
  I've got this data. You tell it where to print the
• 1:21:36
  data and then it automatically prints it.
• 1:21:38
  Now you're just doing labels for all.
• 1:21:40
  Yeah. OK, perfect.
• 1:21:41
  Good. I appreciate that because again,
• 1:21:42
  there's some people that there's something that's interesting to
• 1:21:44
  me, especially as I'm working towards this, the Gill 1918
• 1:21:48
  project. You know, there's things that
• 1:21:51
  coaches will say, you know, Mike, there's I don't know,
• 1:21:54
  there's nothing I know that no other coach knows, right.
• 1:21:56
  I mean, it's very this comes from a very humble background
• 1:22:00
  for our coach. But then I go, that's not true,
• 1:22:04
  you know, like that. This is a great example, John.
• 1:22:05
  It's like, you know, if I said, Hey, John, you should, you know,
• 1:22:07
  talk about recruiting or something unique that you do
• 1:22:09
  like, Oh my, there's nothing I do that no other coach does.
• 1:22:11
  And it's like, you know what, you know, mail merge and you
• 1:22:13
  know it. So the you know, so it's like,
• 1:22:15
  oh, I know it's a man. If I know it, everybody knows.
• 1:22:17
  It's like, I guarantee you many people listening right now are
• 1:22:21
  like, I had no, I've been writing these freaking things,
• 1:22:25
  you know, like it takes me, I'm staying up till midnight every
• 1:22:27
  night. You just change someone's
• 1:22:30
  ability to be more efficient, more effective, so they can
• 1:22:32
  spend more time with their family, more time thinking about
• 1:22:34
  coaching, more time with their passions and charity.
• 1:22:35
  So it's always interesting these Nuggets of coaches that you
• 1:22:39
  know, and how can we, you know, spread that, that knowledge and
• 1:22:42
  that value to others. So I appreciate the you
• 1:22:45
  explaining that to us for for mail merge.
• 1:22:47
  It's it's really interesting. OK, so you're you're just
• 1:22:50
  kicking butt. Yeah.
• 1:22:51
  Doing great learning. Boy, it sounds like you are
• 1:22:54
  you're kind of a continual learner is kind of what I'm
• 1:22:56
  learning, what I'm learning here.
• 1:22:57
  You're, you're always like just, again, that sponge just soaking
• 1:23:00
  things in and he and Jim is letting you do a lot of things
• 1:23:03
  here at Utica. Yeah, no, definitely, definitely
• 1:23:06
  let me do a lot, gave me free range.
• 1:23:10
  So I get there. We have a few, we had a few
• 1:23:12
  national qualifiers while I was there as well.
• 1:23:15
  And it was, it's pretty COVID, like I said, COVID, yeah, COVID
• 1:23:19
  was kinda it was pretty interesting.
• 1:23:22
  Who's the what's the coach name at Ithaca name?
• 1:23:25
  I forgot the female coach trying to remember her name.
• 1:23:30
  At Essex County. Potter, Jennifer Potter.
• 1:23:34
  So at Ithaca. Ithaca.
• 1:23:36
  Yeah. Oh.
• 1:23:36
  OK, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jennifer Potter, you know how I
• 1:23:38
  know that for sure is she's an upcoming guest on the podcast.
• 1:23:41
  So you're just kind of setting me up here.
• 1:23:43
  John, this is really good. We did not practice this.
• 1:23:45
  I promise. But yeah, Jennifer Potter from
• 1:23:47
  Ithaca is coming on the show here in the next couple weeks.
• 1:23:49
  Very good. Yeah, so he did my Level 1 when
• 1:23:53
  I was at Regis, but I've always kept in contact, but I haven't
• 1:23:56
  been in contact there for a while now.
• 1:23:57
  But initially I always did. And I just remember like she was
• 1:24:01
  like, I'm going to see you at nationals one day.
• 1:24:04
  And I just looked at her like, OK, But I say that to say we
• 1:24:10
  competed against them. They left our conference and
• 1:24:12
  stuff like that, but it was very much still a small rivalry.
• 1:24:16
  So we had we had to perform people.
• 1:24:20
  D3 is very tough. I mean, I think people know now,
• 1:24:23
  but but at that time people were still trying to figure it out.
• 1:24:28
  You know, D3 was very tough, especially when you up in that
• 1:24:31
  region that everyone's ready to go, everyone's ready to roll,
• 1:24:35
  Everyone has some type of facility.
• 1:24:38
  So it's it's a very good conference, that empire, a
• 1:24:40
  conference. Just look at Fisher.
• 1:24:44
  They had really good jumpers, hurdlers, stuff like that.
• 1:24:48
  It's a, it's a very competitive conference up there.
• 1:24:51
  But yeah, Jim let me do what I needed to do to learn.
• 1:24:54
  I think I end up leaving because I had a conference.
• 1:24:57
  I walked into Jim's office one day and I was in a financial
• 1:25:00
  situation and I needed a raise. And Jim looks at me, he tells me
• 1:25:06
  a story. He said, dude, I was a teacher.
• 1:25:09
  I withdrew my retirement to move here and become a coach, right?
• 1:25:13
  And I looked at he gambled on himself.
• 1:25:15
  You got to respect that. You know, sorry, Jim, if I'm
• 1:25:18
  putting too much information out, but he literally looked at
• 1:25:23
  me and he was like, dude, I want to see what you could do on a
• 1:25:25
  higher level. He said, I got a wife and kids.
• 1:25:26
  I can't do much, you know, but you you have no wife, no kids.
• 1:25:31
  You're very good at coaching athletes one-on-one in a group.
• 1:25:34
  And he was like, you know, go shop and take another job.
• 1:25:37
  Like he literally told me to say hey I want to see.
• 1:25:40
  What? What a great example of humility
• 1:25:43
  because you leaving does Jim no good.
• 1:25:47
  He's now got to go find find another person.
• 1:25:51
  He's got to know if he trusts that.
• 1:25:52
  You know, you guys had worked up a lot of trust and faith in each
• 1:25:55
  other. He's got to build that up with
• 1:25:56
  the next. But yet he's like, you know
• 1:25:58
  what's maybe better for you, John?
• 1:25:59
  Maybe you need to go gamble on yourself.
• 1:26:01
  That's what a great testament to leadership and coaching from
• 1:26:06
  from Jim there. That's awesome.
• 1:26:07
  I love hearing that. Yeah.
• 1:26:08
  So I ended up taking the job at Lees McRae.
• 1:26:11
  Oh yeah, Lees McRae. I think I spent one year there.
• 1:26:15
  That's in Tennessee. No, it's, it's, it's on the
• 1:26:18
  border. It's still it's in Banner Oak,
• 1:26:20
  North Carolina. Yeah, North Carolina, North
• 1:26:22
  Carolina, but where I was getting at, Yeah, North
• 1:26:26
  Carolina, not Tennessee, but this, this the first like a
• 1:26:29
  little distance from home now. 100.
• 1:26:32
  Percent, Yeah, OK. Percent.
• 1:26:34
  So I go up there and you know, we have a tremendous success.
• 1:26:39
  I had Brian Sims, Zai Fraser and Brittany Augustine, all of those
• 1:26:45
  kids, they all seniors, all qualified for nationals.
• 1:26:48
  And I think going back to the basics of that holy girl is what
• 1:26:52
  I realized. It really works.
• 1:26:54
  You know, you got a kid that's a senior running four years, I
• 1:26:57
  think never ran 49, never ran sub 49.
• 1:27:01
  And he just I think he ran 47 O six or something like that or 46
• 1:27:04
  high in his senior year. He was always hurt and always
• 1:27:08
  injured. And he had Brittany who never
• 1:27:11
  broke sixty in the 400 and she goes and gives me a 55 a 56 and
• 1:27:17
  then a 54 on a 55 on the same day after running the 400
• 1:27:22
  hurdles. So because she did The Dirty
• 1:27:24
  double of the open 4 and 400 hurdles.
• 1:27:28
  But you know, when you get to the politics side of track and
• 1:27:34
  field, I think that's that's when I realized like, OK, track
• 1:27:38
  and field is very much the middle child of sports from, you
• 1:27:43
  know, we generate revenue from tuition, but they don't view
• 1:27:48
  that as money bringing in money when I feel like a lot of
• 1:27:53
  universities should, not saying all, but some.
• 1:27:57
  I feel like track and field is really that middle child from a,
• 1:28:01
  from a standpoint of politics where we we could bring in
• 1:28:06
  bodies. I think that Utica at one point
• 1:28:07
  we had 170 kids exactly. But we had the facilities and we
• 1:28:13
  could, we could we practice all day.
• 1:28:15
  We had waves of kids. So I remember, yeah, I realized
• 1:28:19
  like the whole team was leaving, I think scholarships, something
• 1:28:23
  was going on with the scholarships.
• 1:28:24
  I said, hey, it's time for me to go.
• 1:28:26
  So then I went back home to post and then I got the post job and
• 1:28:31
  AJ was another AD there he was cool guy, cool Italian guy,
• 1:28:36
  food, calm and collective. And AJ is like, hey, you know, I
• 1:28:39
  hate to break a tea, but we're about to cut scholarships and
• 1:28:43
  dude, I was there only for dude, I have this kid, amazing kid.
• 1:28:47
  Malcolm Beckford. His mom ended up being diagnosed
• 1:28:51
  with cancer. So he just left school.
• 1:28:53
  We had a we used to track. We practice that Yale and what's
• 1:28:57
  the other school? They had a timing system.
• 1:28:59
  Malcolm was the six 6 foot 5 Jamaican kid.
• 1:29:02
  He can scratch his knee standing up shoulders, shoulders look
• 1:29:06
  like a shock absorber. So I'm telling you, Malcolm ran
• 1:29:11
  sub 21 in the indoor Flack track freshman kid.
• 1:29:16
  I think he's I think he's JUCO right now.
• 1:29:18
  He's probably trying to make his way back to track.
• 1:29:22
  But when they told me it was cutting, I was like man, OK,
• 1:29:26
  restarting the process. So then I I took on a challenge
• 1:29:29
  and that's how I get to West Virginia State.
• 1:29:31
  I came here and I said, hey, new program, I'm going to build it
• 1:29:34
  up. I'm going to be a founder of the
• 1:29:35
  program and at this point for my resume, this is going to be
• 1:29:40
  every component of track. You can't tell me I have a weak
• 1:29:44
  area. I'll probably you always going
• 1:29:45
  to have a weaker area, but it's improved.
• 1:29:48
  So I came here and started the program.
• 1:29:50
  So from SO from post to West Virginia State, OK.
• 1:29:54
  And the way you said it, the way I interpreted, they didn't you
• 1:29:59
  started the program or did they have a program at?
• 1:30:02
  West Virginia State yes, they so the last time they had a program
• 1:30:05
  was in the 50s. OK, so you're starting, you're
• 1:30:08
  starting a new program. Brand new program.
• 1:30:09
  OK, perfect. OK.
• 1:30:10
  And you came in as the head coach.
• 1:30:13
  Perfect. OK, talk to us about that
• 1:30:14
  because coaching a an established program is hard.
• 1:30:20
  You're starting from zero. I've got to get kids.
• 1:30:22
  I've got to convince kids we ain't got no track, bro.
• 1:30:25
  No one cares about the that you had a program in the 50s, right?
• 1:30:27
  An 18 year old kid today, he's like, I don't know.
• 1:30:28
  I don't even know what the 1950s are, bro.
• 1:30:31
  How do you build that? How do you start from zero?
• 1:30:35
  How do you get kids interested? How do you build a staff if they
• 1:30:38
  allowed you to have staff there? Talk to us about that because
• 1:30:40
  that's fascinating to me. Man, I was, it was, it was
• 1:30:46
  interesting. You know, I spent the first six
• 1:30:49
  months working from my house. I have ordered 2 monitors, my
• 1:30:52
  own personal laptop because they were still trying to get
• 1:30:55
  everything ready, you know, small HBCU, you know, the alumni
• 1:30:59
  are excited, the alumni are very supportive.
• 1:31:01
  They're just trying to get everything ready, you know, they
• 1:31:04
  told me, you know, six years to really get it started.
• 1:31:08
  And I told them, hey, my goal is December, December 3rd is my
• 1:31:11
  birthday. So that's what normally the
• 1:31:13
  first meet of the year, somebody December 3rd next year, we're
• 1:31:16
  going to get started. I know they wanted me to run a
• 1:31:18
  club team at first, right, You know, and then scholarships some
• 1:31:22
  of the kids already on campus. I said no, no, no, if we do
• 1:31:25
  that, you going to ruin the integrity program.
• 1:31:27
  We might as well wait a year and bring in passionate kids about
• 1:31:30
  track because if we bring in all these walk ONS, that's it's
• 1:31:34
  going to become a club team. And then the, the, the program
• 1:31:37
  will go belly up because then you're going to have, you don't
• 1:31:40
  have all these kids complaining. You don't have kids that's not
• 1:31:42
  used to training properly. And then you don't have a high
• 1:31:45
  rate of injury. You don't have a kid that
• 1:31:47
  probably haven't ran since he played hide and go seek and then
• 1:31:50
  try to come. Run since he was the 3rd grade
• 1:31:52
  mile champion in army boots, I get it.
• 1:31:54
  Yeah, that's exactly. Right.
• 1:31:55
  So I, you know, so I came in, I recruited every day and I, I
• 1:32:00
  wasn't, it was hard to get people here because we, I don't
• 1:32:03
  know if you notice, but we don't have a track.
• 1:32:05
  We. Don't have an indoor or outdoor
• 1:32:07
  track. So, you know, I had to get
• 1:32:10
  creative. I, I drove around the town.
• 1:32:13
  Another thing is West Virginia State don't have indoor track.
• 1:32:16
  So it's, it's hard to recruit and West Virginia kids as well.
• 1:32:21
  I think we only got 3 kids from West Virginia.
• 1:32:23
  And then I think like the year before I got here, they they had
• 1:32:27
  signed off on something to redo every turf at every football
• 1:32:30
  field in West Virginia. So they dug up a lot of the
• 1:32:33
  tracks and never put them back. So there's like one track in our
• 1:32:37
  county and like 12 different schools used it.
• 1:32:41
  So I'm already realizing like, hey, we're going to have to
• 1:32:44
  fight to use the track. And then like, I think the hours
• 1:32:48
  they gave us for the track even today is between like 6:00 AM
• 1:32:52
  and, and 10. So I'm waking up early every
• 1:32:57
  morning now, seven days a week. So what I, what I end up doing
• 1:33:01
  is I recruit and I bring in, we had about 100 commits.
• 1:33:06
  Yeah, my first year here. And everyone, everyone's looking
• 1:33:09
  at me like, man, how did you bring in 100 kids?
• 1:33:12
  Dude, we had a kid from Zimbabwe just show up and he's literally
• 1:33:16
  with the paper like, hey, you recruited me.
• 1:33:20
  I'm here to run and I'm like man, like what?
• 1:33:23
  That's cool. We had three kids from overseas,
• 1:33:25
  no scholarship, just come over and say, and then just show me
• 1:33:29
  the e-mail. And I'm laughing because they
• 1:33:32
  called me down to a registrar and said, these kids aren't
• 1:33:35
  saying they're from track. And I'm like, so I get down
• 1:33:37
  there and you know, they're like, hey, coach, how you doing?
• 1:33:39
  I'm like, who? But you never responded to me.
• 1:33:42
  So I I'll go back to my e-mail. I'm like man, I must have missed
• 1:33:46
  this text, right? Right, right.
• 1:33:47
  Or something. He's like, no, I just got the
• 1:33:50
  paper. I came here for opportunity.
• 1:33:51
  I'm ready to run. Yeah, I loved it.
• 1:33:55
  Though, Yeah, yeah. It's told that I did my job
• 1:33:57
  recruiting 100%. So we get in here and then we
• 1:34:02
  realized, hey, I put the school in a housing situation.
• 1:34:06
  Oh. There's not enough housing.
• 1:34:09
  Right, 100 kids and I'm assuming West Virginia State's a smaller
• 1:34:11
  school. So that's a, that's a huge
• 1:34:13
  influx of new kids, right, Right, right.
• 1:34:15
  Yeah, and it was funny because I think originally I and another
• 1:34:18
  reason why I had left post is because they couldn't house my
• 1:34:21
  kids that I was trying to bring in.
• 1:34:23
  They were still trying to, you know, post as a girl in school.
• 1:34:26
  So that was one of my main questions I asked in Miami.
• 1:34:29
  Like can you house the kids? But I think thinking new
• 1:34:33
  program, we won't have that many kids.
• 1:34:35
  I was certainly. This is 10 years of me planning
• 1:34:40
  a mega program. It's interesting.
• 1:34:42
  So another Guilpod castle of George Williams from Saint
• 1:34:46
  Augustine. You know, he has a saying that I
• 1:34:47
  really take to heart. If you're not in the huddle, you
• 1:34:49
  don't know the play. And so I hear people squawking
• 1:34:53
  about, well, how come this university can't, you know,
• 1:34:55
  recruit 100 track kids? And it's like housing is an
• 1:34:58
  issue, right? And so here they have this John
• 1:35:01
  kid. You're still young.
• 1:35:03
  You're an adult. That's not fair for me to call
• 1:35:05
  you a kid. I'm just older than you.
• 1:35:06
  So I call you a kid comes in and says, hey, I'm.
• 1:35:08
  I'm gonna yeah, I'll build your track program here.
• 1:35:10
  Do you have the housing for them?
• 1:35:11
  They they can't go. Yeah, sure.
• 1:35:12
  What do you think you're gonna do, 100?
• 1:35:13
  All right, we'll go build door. They can't just build.
• 1:35:15
  First of all, you don't just build dorms by snapping your
• 1:35:18
  fingers. Second of all, they can't just
• 1:35:19
  buy some track coach. No offense.
• 1:35:21
  No one thinks better of track coaches than I do.
• 1:35:22
  And I'm still like, dude, you're a track coach.
• 1:35:24
  I can't build $1,000,000 dorms because you say you're going to
• 1:35:27
  bring in the kids, but then you do it.
• 1:35:29
  So now they got to react to that.
• 1:35:31
  Yeah. Holy cow.
• 1:35:32
  And I mean, I think, I think to be honest with you, I think
• 1:35:35
  because I was so confident in my plan, but like I tell everybody,
• 1:35:39
  if you play football, you go in every year trying to win the
• 1:35:41
  Super Bowl, you're not like 5. Because realistically, if you
• 1:35:44
  say you're going to go five games out of 10, you're probably
• 1:35:46
  going to go 2. So my mindset is I can't lose,
• 1:35:49
  right? I can't lose.
• 1:35:50
  And if we fail, we'll get there, but we're not going to worry
• 1:35:53
  about feeling we're going to prepare for every option, right?
• 1:35:56
  So, you know, I, I think it caught people off off guard a
• 1:35:59
  little bit. Had all these kids.
• 1:36:02
  We ended up retaining I think 70 out of 100, right.
• 1:36:05
  By the time students started, you know, some kids were
• 1:36:08
  weightless. There's no stats, but I wonder
• 1:36:12
  for new programs that do an influx of, you know, whether
• 1:36:15
  it's 50 hundred 150, like right off the bat.
• 1:36:17
  I wonder what the actual retention rate of that is
• 1:36:20
  because I feel like it would be fairly low.
• 1:36:22
  So when you say 70, so 70%, that seems pretty high.
• 1:36:28
  Yeah, I've got a meeting the other day.
• 1:36:30
  They said my retention was one out of five.
• 1:36:32
  I mean four out of five as. I say that's not good, John.
• 1:36:34
  OK, good. Four out of five.
• 1:36:35
  Yeah, Yeah, that's much better. Much better.
• 1:36:37
  That's like you should not have said that stat, John.
• 1:36:39
  That was not good. At all four out of five kids.
• 1:36:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I thought that was pretty
• 1:36:43
  decent. I'm like, well, how can we be
• 1:36:45
  better? And they're like, be better.
• 1:36:47
  Like keep it right here. Don't go down.
• 1:36:49
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where?
• 1:36:50
  So how many years have you been there at West Virginia State
• 1:36:53
  now? 2 1/2 going on three.
• 1:36:55
  So I love this intro. Where are we at today?
• 1:36:58
  And by the way, that was yesterday.
• 1:37:00
  I mean, 2 1/2 year, three years ago.
• 1:37:01
  That's that's nothing. So what's amazing to me is
• 1:37:04
  hearing that story and you know, I got to see and hang out with
• 1:37:08
  you at nationals a few weeks ago.
• 1:37:11
  So it's like, well, something's going really good.
• 1:37:13
  Talk to us about the status of the program today.
• 1:37:15
  Where those 100 original pioneers honestly for the
• 1:37:19
  program, How what's it look like today?
• 1:37:21
  How many kids do you have on the team?
• 1:37:23
  You're making kids, the nationals.
• 1:37:24
  Tell us about that. Currently, we have 69 kids on a
• 1:37:28
  team. Out of 69, I think 55 of them
• 1:37:31
  are active. Again, there's certain kids
• 1:37:34
  where they're developmental. And I'm like, hey, let's take a
• 1:37:38
  year and not waste this eligibility, right?
• 1:37:40
  Because we don't know, you know, we don't know what's going to
• 1:37:43
  come. We don't know if you just need
• 1:37:46
  time to let your body get acclimated.
• 1:37:49
  The women's team is very, I mean, both teams are very
• 1:37:51
  talented. The women's team is a little bit
• 1:37:53
  more stacked. I think we could next year we
• 1:37:56
  might, we might have a little bit more athletes at nationals
• 1:37:59
  on the women's team. We just signed a girl that ran I
• 1:38:02
  think 39 and a 300. So that's, that's pretty decent.
• 1:38:07
  I know the last girl I had that ran 41 was at least able to run
• 1:38:09
  5554. So I'm hoping she can transfer
• 1:38:13
  that 3039 to something. It was real interesting because
• 1:38:17
  I had a kid from West Virginia, Candace Morris, and I did my
• 1:38:22
  Level 3 project on her and she was the fastest kid in West
• 1:38:27
  Virginia. I think her, she ran like 12212
• 1:38:31
  one. And I get her and the town is
• 1:38:35
  pushing her. I'm going to take her and I get
• 1:38:38
  her and she's the most uncoordinated individual.
• 1:38:42
  I mean, we she tripped 3 times the first time I did a practice
• 1:38:45
  for her and we laughed at it every day.
• 1:38:48
  She's sprained her ankle all right, Like literally just
• 1:38:52
  trying to do the normal dynamic warm up.
• 1:38:55
  So I'm like, man, I got to put this girl in a bubble.
• 1:38:57
  Never wait. Doesn't that excite you though?
• 1:38:59
  Because like, if she's running 12/2 and it's like, man, she's
• 1:39:01
  the most talented person, you know, coordinate.
• 1:39:03
  It's like, Dang, how much better can she get?
• 1:39:05
  If it's like, dude, you're 12/2 and you can barely chew bubble
• 1:39:08
  gum and walk, like, all right, we got something to work with,
• 1:39:11
  right? So, and it was funny because I
• 1:39:14
  remember like we got Candace and someone goes, she's not that
• 1:39:18
  talented. Every time she she leaves West
• 1:39:20
  Virginia, she doesn't win. So I'm like, OK, so I, I tell
• 1:39:25
  Candace, I don't tell her who it is.
• 1:39:26
  I'm like, hey, we're going to use this as a little bit of
• 1:39:28
  motivation. I said not for you, but more so
• 1:39:31
  for me, right? So she she comes in and Candace
• 1:39:36
  is a hard worker. She's like, what do I need to
• 1:39:38
  learn? First of all, you can't do even
• 1:39:40
  she couldn't even do a plyometric like a jump
• 1:39:42
  everything you. Need to learn everything?
• 1:39:45
  Everything. So I'm like, well, you got a lot
• 1:39:46
  to learn. So she's I got to learn all this
• 1:39:48
  like no, no, no, you just got to learn this.
• 1:39:50
  So I tell her like learn rhythm. Like literally just get the
• 1:39:54
  concept of rhythm implies this first year and we'll be fine.
• 1:39:58
  She comes in and she goes, I think she runs 758 and then she
• 1:40:03
  goes to the hospital for like a month.
• 1:40:05
  Mind you, I'm doing my Level 3 project.
• 1:40:07
  And then we have a huge storm where a tree knocks down the
• 1:40:10
  house and everything right in the middle.
• 1:40:12
  So she looks at me, she comes back and after a month I'm like,
• 1:40:17
  dude, your season's over, Enjoy the rest of the season.
• 1:40:21
  She's talking about PR and I said, if we try to get squeezed
• 1:40:23
  it out of you, who knows, you'll probably get hurt.
• 1:40:26
  I'm like, just enjoy the season and just learn.
• 1:40:28
  So then she calls me at the end of the season and she goes,
• 1:40:31
  coach, can we work out this summer?
• 1:40:32
  I'm like, sure, I'll send you a program XYZ.
• 1:40:36
  She was out there every day. We did a lot of basic stuff,
• 1:40:40
  just learning how to get into triple extension, learning full
• 1:40:44
  range of motion, learning that full range of motion is power,
• 1:40:47
  stuff like that. And Fast forward today, she ran
• 1:40:50
  740-2741. And it's, it's, it's funny
• 1:40:55
  because now we're at the point now where we got to get 100m to
• 1:40:58
  reflect, you know, and I look at her mechanics, her mechanics is
• 1:41:02
  very much of A 400m runner with a little bit more back mechanics
• 1:41:06
  than front. Material.
• 1:41:07
  She probably doesn't want to hear that.
• 1:41:09
  No, she she's a she actually asked me to run the 400 the
• 1:41:12
  other day. Her first time she ran and she
• 1:41:13
  ran 56. Let's go.
• 1:41:15
  So I told her I was like, hey, we might move up to the floor
• 1:41:17
  next year, but we're not going to rush it.
• 1:41:19
  Four year plan, Remember, let's squeeze every drop we can out of
• 1:41:22
  the 60 and 100. I want to go from there.
• 1:41:27
  But then we have our other store.
• 1:41:29
  We got Dion Dion's this kid. He's from, I think, Detroit, MI,
• 1:41:34
  and he was a pain in my back. Let's just say that.
• 1:41:38
  So every day I call it, you know, Dion, we had a really he
• 1:41:41
  was he was one of those kids you knew you could be a grind.
• 1:41:43
  Like you could be stern on Dion come to practice.
• 1:41:47
  Hey, Dion, you're going to run cross country this year.
• 1:41:48
  Me. So we had this running joke.
• 1:41:53
  I called Dion a waste of talent every day.
• 1:41:55
  But like we talked about it and you know, I was like Dion, you
• 1:41:58
  could be such a great athlete, he's just a waste of talent.
• 1:42:01
  So every day I was like what's up?
• 1:42:03
  Waste of talent and Dion looking at me.
• 1:42:05
  So he's running cross country. But I told him I got plans from
• 1:42:08
  him. Now Dion's coming in.
• 1:42:09
  I think he only ran like a year and a half of track.
• 1:42:12
  Basically he's me right in high school, academically not great.
• 1:42:18
  I think I did 2 years of track in high school and junior,
• 1:42:21
  senior year I'm like, this kid is going to be great.
• 1:42:23
  I can see it already. And Dion's looking at me like,
• 1:42:25
  he asked me one day, like, why do you think I'm going to be so
• 1:42:28
  good? I said, I just know.
• 1:42:30
  So he runs cross country, and we have to trick him into running
• 1:42:33
  cross country. And I got this kid named Kurt.
• 1:42:35
  I'm like, Kurt, you're going to wear your jersey and you're
• 1:42:36
  going to start the race and then just turn around.
• 1:42:38
  And then so Dion can go around Carl Country.
• 1:42:42
  So he runs the race, and he's like, you tricked me.
• 1:42:44
  I'm like, yeah, I was like, how did it feel?
• 1:42:47
  He's like, oh, it's not that bad.
• 1:42:49
  I was like, well, that's how I feel.
• 1:42:50
  When you don't come to practice compare.
• 1:42:53
  He looks at me and he goes. From that day on, Dion starts to
• 1:42:56
  work. He runs indoor.
• 1:42:58
  I think he's running like 20 threes, 20 fours and he's upset.
• 1:43:02
  So when I come in and I have him talk to Wadley Genesis, I do a
• 1:43:06
  Wadley. She comes in a gold medalist, 4
• 1:43:09
  by 4 I believe. I have her do a Zoom meeting
• 1:43:15
  with my whole team. The connection with Wadley, she
• 1:43:19
  went to UMass and I while I was at Eastern before she went to
• 1:43:24
  South Carolina on the Cairo. And so I've heard talk to my
• 1:43:30
  whole team and she tells him like hey, like D1 is a monster.
• 1:43:35
  Like she tells him like she went to the hospital X amount of
• 1:43:37
  times. The Ackerman you literally just
• 1:43:39
  have to die. And from that meeting, I think
• 1:43:41
  it just clicks for her. He just came in and practice
• 1:43:45
  throw up everywhere. Dion, you're all right.
• 1:43:48
  Yeah, I'm all right. I'll be fine.
• 1:43:49
  He's like, I'm no longer going to be a waste of time with you.
• 1:43:52
  Wow. Every now and then.
• 1:43:54
  Yeah. I think the first time he wrote
• 1:43:56
  he ran 21 something. He came up to me like I told
• 1:44:01
  you. I'm like, no, I told you too.
• 1:44:04
  You know what's interesting with it, John?
• 1:44:05
  As you're telling that story, my natural reaction is to to not be
• 1:44:09
  happy with it, to be real frank with you, like I, I, I was like,
• 1:44:13
  man, I want to interrupt you and say, hey, John, you remember
• 1:44:15
  when coach told you that you were a natural born leader and
• 1:44:19
  how that made you feel and what that set you, you know, your
• 1:44:22
  course forward? What if you would have said
• 1:44:24
  you're a waste of talent? I have a feeling you would not
• 1:44:27
  have liked that. But what I'm realizing is people
• 1:44:33
  are everybody is different. So how one person needs to be
• 1:44:36
  motivated is different than how another.
• 1:44:38
  And I think that's a, you know, what you're showing is the the
• 1:44:41
  skill set that maybe I don't have.
• 1:44:42
  Like I would I would be that guy today.
• 1:44:44
  By the way, I wasn't this guy when I coached, but today I'd be
• 1:44:47
  that guy that tells everybody you're you know, you're awesome.
• 1:44:49
  It's going to be fine. You're going to do exactly, you
• 1:44:51
  are exactly where you are, where you should be today.
• 1:44:53
  And you know, you know, I would overdo the positive side and
• 1:44:57
  somebody would be on my team going, man, I just need him to
• 1:44:59
  tell me I'm a waste of talent. That's the kind of motivation I
• 1:45:02
  need. And you are showing the talent
• 1:45:05
  that you have like of, OK, this person needs this kind of
• 1:45:07
  motivation. This person, you know that
• 1:45:09
  they're, they're all individuals, even though I have
• 1:45:11
  this homogeneous team. So it was really interesting to
• 1:45:14
  hear that. And for the sake of time, John,
• 1:45:16
  we're we're getting close here to our time.
• 1:45:18
  So I love the beginning of West Virginia State.
• 1:45:21
  I love the current state. So as you look in your crystal
• 1:45:24
  ball, we're, you know, in the middle of the 2025 outdoor
• 1:45:26
  season, which is going to be over before we blink.
• 1:45:29
  It's so amazing how fast that season goes and you look, you
• 1:45:32
  know, you're a smart enough guy, you're looking at 262728.
• 1:45:35
  What's got you excited for West Virginia State University track
• 1:45:39
  and field? I think that we're trying to get
• 1:45:41
  a track on campus, right? That means we can get, you know,
• 1:45:44
  more effective training in. We probably drive around 10 to
• 1:45:47
  20 hours a week. Kids could sleep more study
• 1:45:50
  time. And then the development tool of
• 1:45:53
  Dion and and Candace, I mean, I think he ran 10 five last
• 1:45:57
  weekend. I think he can go at least .2 to
• 1:46:00
  .3 faster and then and then seeing what you know after the
• 1:46:04
  season and seeing what's what's next for us as a university and
• 1:46:08
  as an individual. I think that's there's no right
• 1:46:12
  answer in life. It's just you got to know every
• 1:46:14
  scenario and I think I'm seeing how it plays out.
• 1:46:18
  I think that's what I'm most excited for.
• 1:46:21
  You know, hopefully I'll call you and say, hey, we're getting
• 1:46:23
  started on a facility, let's get some stuff, you know, you know,
• 1:46:27
  what products can we get? I know when I took the job they
• 1:46:30
  told me I was getting a facility.
• 1:46:31
  So I think I ordered a whole bunch of hurdles from you guys
• 1:46:34
  early because I know the prices of hurdles are going to go up by
• 1:46:36
  like 20%. Rather than there's a new tariff
• 1:46:39
  probably in the last hour that we've been Speaking of.
• 1:46:41
  So yeah, absolutely, yeah. So I told university I was like,
• 1:46:43
  get the hurdles now because that's going to be the one thing
• 1:46:45
  you don't want to buy later. So we got a whole closet full of
• 1:46:49
  hurdles right now. But no, I, I think just, you
• 1:46:53
  know, starting a program and being that kid that played a
• 1:46:56
  Road to Glory and, and AGMO and, and you, you watch how well you
• 1:47:01
  can make a franchise. I'm doing it in real life now.
• 1:47:04
  And I think I haven't worked the day of my life, right?
• 1:47:09
  Obviously there's ups and downs at every university, but that's
• 1:47:12
  life, right? And that's how you know you're
• 1:47:14
  growing, but just watching the maturation of the program and
• 1:47:18
  people say, man, you got a 10/5 kid and you have no track.
• 1:47:21
  You know, I mean, there was days where I cut the track in the
• 1:47:24
  grass and then you make sure you got to cut it real straight to
• 1:47:27
  half lanes, right? You go out there and I I'm at
• 1:47:29
  Lowe's with the string and yarn and the sticks to get the right
• 1:47:33
  curve like I'm I'm doing all. This.
• 1:47:34
  They don't teach you that in USATF level 1.
• 1:47:37
  I'm I'm putting steaks in and finding the potholes going in.
• 1:47:41
  This is all my personal money, right?
• 1:47:43
  I think I put like 10 grand into this program.
• 1:47:45
  I'm getting dirt and I'm pouring it in the holes and, and stuff
• 1:47:48
  like that, though I'm, I'm real curious to see where this
• 1:47:52
  program in the next year. I mean, with the recruiting
• 1:47:55
  class we have coming in, we're going a little bit more
• 1:47:57
  concentrated rather than numbers.
• 1:48:00
  But also I, you know, I do have dreams and aspirations of
• 1:48:03
  coaching on a, on AD one level as well.
• 1:48:06
  So there's, there's no right answer.
• 1:48:08
  It's just whatever opportunity presents itself.
• 1:48:10
  Yeah. I love how you something that
• 1:48:14
  cut my ear, the way you said that, that you're curious about
• 1:48:17
  the future, You know, most people would say I'm excited
• 1:48:20
  about the future. You know, I'm, I'm pumped for
• 1:48:23
  the future, things like that. And to me, curiosity is the the
• 1:48:27
  true overall superpower in life. You know, to me that the, the
• 1:48:31
  people that I've seen succeed the most in in all aspects of my
• 1:48:35
  life, whether it's track and field, financial, familial,
• 1:48:38
  etcetera, they're always curious people.
• 1:48:41
  So I just, it was like a little Ding in my head when you're
• 1:48:43
  like, I'm curious about what's going to happen here in the next
• 1:48:46
  couple of years at West Virginia State and in the next few years
• 1:48:48
  in, in my career. So I really thought that was
• 1:48:50
  the, I wanted to point that out. You know, John, again, there's
• 1:48:54
  no bigger cheerleader, no bigger fan of track and field coaches
• 1:48:57
  than than me. And I think every coach when
• 1:49:01
  they go to a program, it's interesting.
• 1:49:04
  It's hard. You know, coaching is hard.
• 1:49:06
  You're dealing with on the high school level, 14 to 18 year old
• 1:49:09
  kids and college, 18 to 22 year old kids and a collection of all
• 1:49:13
  different backgrounds. They grew up in great
• 1:49:15
  backgrounds. They grew up in not so great
• 1:49:17
  backgrounds. Athletically, not athletically,
• 1:49:20
  academically, not academically. There's everything in between.
• 1:49:24
  But to me, there is something special about starting a program
• 1:49:28
  from scratch. You know, history is important.
• 1:49:30
  So it's cool to have, you know, a top 10 already established and
• 1:49:34
  you know, facilities already established and God bless.
• 1:49:37
  I want that for everybody. But there's something about, you
• 1:49:40
  know, you're 31 now, looking back in 20-30, forty years, you
• 1:49:44
  know, when you're fifty, 60-70 years old and going, you know
• 1:49:47
  what? I built that, you know, I, I
• 1:49:50
  did, I helped, I helped build that because you have a whole
• 1:49:52
  team around you, administrators and teachers and athletes and
• 1:49:56
  such that are there. So it's me.
• 1:49:58
  It's just, it's really cool to see it from the beginning
• 1:50:01
  stages. You know, the first three years,
• 1:50:02
  it seems like I've met you those three years.
• 1:50:04
  On some days they probably feel like, yeah, man, that feels like
• 1:50:06
  30 years. And other days it feels like,
• 1:50:08
  man, I just got here yesterday. You know, there's all these
• 1:50:10
  different emotions and projects that you have to, to, to do and
• 1:50:14
  overcome. And so, so it's really exciting
• 1:50:17
  for me to be able to be on the sidelines and to see that man
• 1:50:19
  again. You know, you can, you just
• 1:50:21
  started the program yesterday and I'm seeing it Nationals.
• 1:50:24
  And I know what you, I should say a different way.
• 1:50:26
  I know what you don't have. And so like to me, it's like, oh
• 1:50:30
  man, get this, you know, I'm going to call you a kid, sorry,
• 1:50:33
  but get this guy resources and what can he do?
• 1:50:38
  You know, like he's doing it on shoestring here, no facilities,
• 1:50:40
  etcetera. Give this, give this guy, give
• 1:50:42
  this coach some resources and you know, you think you're doing
• 1:50:46
  good now. And I know you know this boy,
• 1:50:49
  there are so many steps and ladders upwards for you and your
• 1:50:53
  athletes and for your program. And so like I said, it's kind of
• 1:50:56
  cool to be on the side sideline to be able to watch it, watch it
• 1:50:59
  play out, my friend. It's really cool.
• 1:51:01
  Very cool. John, man, the you know, the
• 1:51:05
  most valuable thing you can give me is your time.
• 1:51:08
  I know you're, you're busy. You know, whether you have an
• 1:51:11
  established program or not, coaching is busy or right in the
• 1:51:13
  middle of track season. I'm always so humbled when
• 1:51:15
  someone apologizes for not getting back to me.
• 1:51:17
  And I'm like, bro, I get it. You ain't got to apologize to
• 1:51:19
  me. It's track season.
• 1:51:20
  I get it better than anybody. So really grateful for your time
• 1:51:23
  today. Really cool to hear your
• 1:51:26
  insights. This is one of the more
• 1:51:29
  intriguing ones that we've had on the artistic side of things,
• 1:51:33
  but yet being very centered with that Holy Grail that you call it
• 1:51:37
  as well. So it's very interesting to see
• 1:51:38
  that dichotomy of both, and I think that's super important.
• 1:51:41
  I think maybe we make some errors when we go all the way to
• 1:51:43
  one side or the other. So to see you combining those
• 1:51:46
  two, I think it's been a testament to what you've done
• 1:51:49
  this early in your career and it makes me excited about what is
• 1:51:53
  next, man. So thank you so much for being
• 1:51:54
  here. Thank you for your openness and
• 1:51:56
  authenticity, and I'm truly grateful for you.
• 1:51:59
  Thank you. I appreciate you and my next
• 1:52:01
  podcast. You going to be a part of my
• 1:52:02
  story. Thanks man, I appreciate that.
• 1:52:06
  You know, I love being in the background for a lot of coaches
• 1:52:09
  stories, man. It means a lot to me.
• 1:52:10
  Thank you guys so much again for being here again.
• 1:52:13
  Check out. So this is Monday when this
• 1:52:14
  publishes and of course you may be listening to it on Wednesday
• 1:52:17
  or you may be listening to this years in the future.
• 1:52:19
  It's 2025. Maybe it's 2028 for you.
• 1:52:21
  I just had an episode, Stacey Leighton from Madonna
• 1:52:25
  University, He was on the show back in November 23, so almost 2
• 1:52:29
  year, a year and a half ago and someone listened to his episode
• 1:52:31
  today. I thought that was so cool, man.
• 1:52:33
  So go back and look at our library of coaches.
• 1:52:35
  We mentioned Cava, he's been on the show.
• 1:52:37
  Boo Scheck Schneider are still our number one most listened to
• 1:52:40
  episode Jimmy Fisher. He's been on the show.
• 1:52:42
  So there's so many amazing Evergreen content for you to
• 1:52:46
  check out here on the Guild Connections podcast.
• 1:52:48
  And then Tuesday through Sunday, every day that we have content,
• 1:52:51
  we will be publishing the Guild 1918 project right here.
• 1:52:54
  Same channel. There's not a new thing to
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  subscribe to, so be subscribed here and you'll enjoy 10 minute
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  to 30 minute episodes, XS and OS Ted talks of track and field
• 1:53:03
  podcast. That's what we're creating, but
• 1:53:05
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  up and I'll get you the instructions.
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  Super easy to do and create your own episode.
• 1:53:13
  My passion is to help coaches literally find their voice and I
• 1:53:16
  just want to be a conduit for that.
• 1:53:18
  So again, thanks for joining us this week's this week join us.
• 1:53:20
  Well, join us tomorrow. We'll be back with the with more
• 1:53:23
  coaches and and more content and value for you guys.
• 1:53:26
  Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:53:27
  We'll talk soon. If it goes to appreciate the
• 1:53:32
  coach, the ones that pour people most every season needs a voice
• 1:53:36
  of reason speaking the growth you got to prep before you carry
• 1:53:39
  the load ice coffee to the soul. For those of us who stay on the
• 1:53:42
  go proper handoff to stay in the zone which you packing for the
• 1:53:45
  road. There's more than one way to go
• 1:53:47
  taking those that's paying. You're told it ain't practice.
• 1:53:50
  If your purpose ain't Clair, it can't happen until you listen
• 1:53:53
  With both is you can't mentor without a mentor.
• 1:53:55
  Years of experience. You can reinvent those years.
• 1:53:58
  Every plan's got to stand and deliver two and the price
• 1:54:01
  sacrifice can you give up you. It's a choice and a fight, not a
• 1:54:05
  win or lose. It's not a ploy boy device.
• 1:54:07
  Y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to, it's all
• 1:54:10
  about why you don't know till you know who you are inside 6.
• 1:54:13
  When you waste of time choose none.
• 1:54:15
  So y'all of course finish line the work ain't done so we learn
• 1:54:18
  from the experts but y'all got to put in the leg work kill.
• 1:54:21
  Athletics is the network. It's all about connections put
• 1:54:24
  together for the profession to where every track coach could be
• 1:54:27
  blessing.