Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Adapting your wedding business alongside your life - with Becky Harley Photography

Transcript

Adapting your wedding business alongside your life - with Becky Harley Photography · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

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Becky: And I still get inquiries and bookings and my SEO is still good
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because of that work that I put in.
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Then like those things that you can do will serve you further down the line.
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You know, that's like evergreen kind of marketing that you can do.
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Becca: I am Becca Pountney, wedding business marketing expert,
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speaker and blogger, and you are listening to The Wedding Pros
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who are Ready to Grow podcast.
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I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
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examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
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If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
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and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you
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love, then you're in the right place.
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Let's get going with today's episode.
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Today I'm chatting to one of my favorite people in the
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wedding industry, Becky Harley.
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Becky is an incredible wedding and branding photographer,
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and you are going to love her.
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I first met Becky back in 2016 where I dropped into her Facebook inbox and
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invited to her to a networking event.
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She came along and has been in my world ever since.
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I've watched her business expand, her confidence grow, and since we first met,
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she's become a parent to two gorgeous children too, and had to navigate
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how that impacts life and business.
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You are going to absolutely love hearing from her and we've
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got so much to talk about.
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Becky, welcome to the podcast.
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Becky: Hello, I love the introduction.
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Becca: You are just the loveliest person.
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I'm so pleased to finally have you here on the podcast.
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So let's start by going right back to the beginning.
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So when did you decide to become a wedding photographer?
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How did that happen?
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Yeah, tell us the story.
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Becky: Well.
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Let me just, Put my time traveling head on and try to remember what happened.
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so basically I, when I went to university and did a a degree,
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that was great fun, but didn't really lead me anywhere obvious.
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I studied the ancient Romans, so that was great.
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I got to go to Rome and get pissed a lot, but not so much in the way of like
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actual, let's, let's do this as a career.
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And so when I left university, I did some volunteering for charities
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and stuff and ended up working.
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For charities because that's what I knew how to do and I needed to pay some rent.
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So that's what I was doing.
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I did that for four years and I was always sort of thinking, oh, what?
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This isn't really what I like.
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I mean, it was great.
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A lot of people want to work in charity and it's, it was an amazing place
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to work, but, It wasn't like what I always wanted to do, and I didn't
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really know what I always wanted to do.
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And so I was just kind of thinking about things I could
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do, like, where can I go next?
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What can what, what am I good at and what can I, what can I apply my skills to?
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And I got married and I thought, Hey, weddings are fun.
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I'd had kind of a vague idea that I might like to explore being self-employed
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because I knew I wanted to have a family and I thought that that would be.
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You know, Hey, I'll be at home.
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I'll be able to look after the kids and work.
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I'll come on to that later.
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So, yeah, I, I kind of want thought about being self-employed and didn't really.
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How to make it happen.
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But I got married, my wedding present from my other half was a camera, an
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SLR camera, and it was really the first time I ever picked one up.
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I'd always been the one to take photos in places when we went out or on
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holidays and stuff, I took loads of pictures but had never really explored
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kind of taking it to the next level.
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So I did, and I did some training with other photographers,
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shadowed other photographers.
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I did loads of second shooting.
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Some training to help me with the basics, like getting the website set up, thinking
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about how to do wedding fairs and like kind of photography specific stuff
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rather than kind of wedding industry.
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Like broader wedding industry stuff and just like worked really hard,
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like I was working all my evenings to kind of build this little business up.
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Went part-time in a, in a role and quickly realized that I'd
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already checked out of that world.
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And so very quickly left that part-time role and kind of dived straight in.
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I did the National Wedding Show in 2016, beginning of 2016 I think it
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was, or maybe it was the end of 2015.
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No, it must have been the beginning of 2016 and I had 10 weddings book for
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that year and I thought, you know what?
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I'm sure.
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I'm sure I can make it work.
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And so I, and with the time that I then had, I focused on my business and
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then it just kind of grew from there.
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And now, now we're quite a far, we're way down the line from that point.
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Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
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So you did that classic thing of getting married yourself and realizing the
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wedding industry looks fun to work in.
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I feel like that's so many people's story.
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And then you started building it.
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Alongside your actual job, at what point did you realize you needed to
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actually quit your job and go full-time?
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Because that's the bit that people find scary People are worried about
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leaving the safety of employment and going into self-employment.
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So how did you make that decision?
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How did you make that leap and get over that fear?
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Becky: If I'm completely honest with you, my hand was slightly forced because the
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job that I was working in as part-time were like, you're not really working on
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this job, are you ? They were like, I, I basically didn't get through probation on
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that because I just wasn't really there.
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I wasn't interested.
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Like I wasn't, they, they kind of had hired me hoping that I would do X, Y, Z.
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Like hold my hands up.
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I just, I wasn't in my head, I was already on the path to doing, being
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self-employed, and I was only planning on being there for a short while.
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And then we had a conversation and they said, look, you know, you're
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clearly not focused on this role.
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And I said, yeah, you know what?
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I'm not so let's call it a day.
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So my hand was forced slightly there.
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It was scary, but in a way it was the best thing that could have happened
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because I probably would've sat.
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You know, oh, maybe I'll, maybe I'll leave like after this date
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or after that date or whatever.
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And you know, I think having made that decision to leave my full-time role and go
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to part-time was already taking that step.
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I already had, I think when I left my full-time job I had probably like
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maybe five or six weddings booked in for the following year, and so
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it was, it was just really freeing.
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Being part-time in the first instance was really freeing because I was able
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to spend, you know, actually sit, sat at home and was able to work.
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But on my business, rather than having to feel like I was, you know,
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guiltily having, you know, looking at, looking at my other stuff on my
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phone, on my laptop and stuff, and I should have been focused on my old job.
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So, yeah, it was, it is a scary thing, definitely.
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But it, it definitely helped having that kind of little push.
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Rather than having to fully jump
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. Becca: Yeah.
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And everything happens for a reason.
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So we can look back and we can thank them for not putting you through your probation
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because it meant that you had to go ahead and absolutely grow your business.
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Yeah.
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Now I know this is an area that people didn't be there anyway,
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Well, there we go.
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It's the right decision.
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This is an area that people struggle with though, and I'm sure there's
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some people listening right now who are right on the cusp of think.
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Do I jump?
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Do I stay?
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Do I go part-time?
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Do you have any advice for them?
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What should they be doing?
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What should they be thinking about making that decision?
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Becky: I think it's really important to have a think about your numbers
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and have a plan, because I think that was something that I've always sort of
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struggled a bit with with my business.
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I've, I've sort of been like, yeah, I'll be all right . And I just kind of, you
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know, I think having a real hold on your numbers and having a real hold on how
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you're gonna reach that goal and setting yourself goals is a really important
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way to help you get to that point.
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And I think, I do think at some point you just have to take the leap because.
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There's always a reason not to, or like, oh, there's, you can always
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think, oh, I'll delay it to this point.
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I'll delay it to that point when this happens or when that happens.
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And like, as you know, like if you keep putting things off forever, then you'd
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always find an excuse not to do it.
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And I think it's, it is, it is such a difficult thing to do, but I think if
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you can kind of think about when I get to a certain number of bookings, like
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that will give me X amount of money.
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Work out your expenses and make sure you are not just like throwing money
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away at different stuff that you don't need necessarily need to invest in, then
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it can really help you to kind of see how the kind of the numbers work out.
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And the thing is for me, like I'm, I'm fortunate that I'm not the sole
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breadwinner in my, in my house.
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And I, I'm very aware that if, if I had been, it might well be a
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very different story cuz you know, when you've got a mortgage to.
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Going self-employed is gonna be a huge thing.
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We had a secured a mortgage on my full-time salary and so I felt quite
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comfortable that changing my kind of input to that, to that at that time wouldn't
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have like rocked the boat too much.
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So I'm fortunate that that is in, in not my situation and it did help.
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But I think if you are really able to do the sums and kind of make sure
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that those contributions aren't.
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Be affected, or you know, what?
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You need to know what like you are spending on a month to month basis and
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how it's gonna kind of balance out.
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So, and also just to have a plan of like, not just like, this is
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how many bookings I've got now, but like, how am I gonna grow?
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What do I need to, like, what money do I need to make per month and
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how am I gonna make that happen?
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I mean, obviously let's cross fingers that you don't get stuff like a pandemic
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thrown your way because obviously
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that can complicate matters somewhat.
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The wedding industry is tricky because obviously like if you need to make
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money next week, if you take, if you go out and try and book a wedding
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for next week, obviously in some, depending on what you're offering
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it, it might be easier to do that.
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But like for me as a photographer, if I said I need to make some money
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next, next week or next month.
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I can take a, maybe a couple of bookings if I market myself, but that actual money
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isn't then gonna come in for another year.
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So if you are maybe a wedding photographer, you could think
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about other stuff that you might be able to do alongside to kind of
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help keep that income coming in.
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Yeah.
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Becca: Definitely the numbers are so, so important.
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You should have a grip on your numbers.
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Everyone's situation is gonna be very different, and they need
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to look at their own situation.
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One mistake I see people make is they say, I need to be matching my salary
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before I can quit and go self-employed.
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And actually, that isn't always the case.
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You need to look at your expenses, but that's not necessarily
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the same as your salary.
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And there may be some sacrifices that need to be made, but as long as you
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can afford to live and do the basics.
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Then that's the number you need to be working on as well.
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Also, I had a great, episode earlier on with Hannah Rose Weddings.
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If you haven't ever listened to that, go back and listen to it because she did
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quit her job the week before the pandemic.
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And it's a really interesting story about how, because she'd made
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that decision, how she then had to find other ways to make it work.
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Becky: Mm, definitely.
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I think it's why, like what, for me, I was working in London so I could
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already factor out all of my tran, my transport to London every day.
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Like just because like you are taking that leap, there are some things that you
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might then not be able not have to pay as much for, you know, like my commute into
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London was a several thousand pounds a year that suddenly didn't have to happen.
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So it made it you.
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Just things to think about.
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It's not just like your expenses are always gonna be the same.
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Becca: Absolutely.
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Okay, Becky, so let's move forward a little bit in time to that moment where
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I dropped into your Facebook inbox.
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So I was holding an event in Hertfordshire networking event, and I decided to just.
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Randomly search the internet for people in the local area in the wedding industry.
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I came across Becky.
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I dropped her a message and invited her along to my event, and you came.
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So my question is, why did you come when the stranger dropped into your inbox,
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and how has coming to that event that day had an impact on your business?
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Becky: Wow.
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I really have to think, but I do remember getting your message and
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being like, oh, this is exciting.
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I suppose the first thing was that I was excited someone had found me from
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Google , so that was always good.
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It meant my search, my searching stuff was working.
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I think I, at the time, like if, if you dropped, randomly dropped into my inbox
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now I think it might be a quite different story because obviously now I've got
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two small children and I can't really.
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As much time as I might have otherwise done, you know, flitting off to go
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to some networking events and stuff.
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But at the time I was kind of fairly new to the area, um, fairly new to
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the business and so I was like, yeah, I'll go and say hello to people.
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I'd already found out that that venue, cause it was a Coltsfoot
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country retreat, wasn't it?
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And I'd already found that venue and thought, oh, that's nice and close.
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That'll be an interesting venue to sort of see if I could work out or to see if
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I could get in with, and yeah, I just, and I think also I'd been contacted
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by some of those, you know, those breakfast networking things where you
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get plumbers and all sorts in there.
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And I think I'd sort of, I'd heard people saying that that wasn't necessarily the
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best way to go, but I'd, this sounded a lot more up my street basically.
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Plus there were nibbles and.
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Wine?
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I think so.
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what's not to love.
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Becca: Absolutely.
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Well, I think you are very brave because again, that's another
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hurdle that people get stuck at.
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They think, I couldn't go to that.
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I can't turn up somewhere on my own.
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I can't go to this networking event.
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And actually, You can.
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You did it.
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You met some great people and I'm glad that you came that day because
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we've been friends and you've been in my world ever since and it's been
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wonderful to watch you on that journey.
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You met some great people there that I know you still work with today, so
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it'd be just great to hear really how being part of that network, meeting
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people in the industry collaborating, how all of that has had an impact
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on your life and your business.
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Becky: I think it's so important.
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Friends in the industry and people that you can kind of talk to, even
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if you don't necessarily end up working with them all the time.
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It's just nice to have kind of those touchpoints or, or to be able to recommend
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people across the industry as well.
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And also like people in your own industry, I think it's really important
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to get to know and, and trade ideas with because if you were working in
13:05
any industry or in an office job, you.
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Peers who did the same job as you, and there wouldn't be a competition around
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it, you'd all just be doing the same job and you'd have those people to talk to.
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And you know, the kind of network of people to even just to have a bit
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of a moan to, you know, like, oh, I can't believe this has happened
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to me today, blah, blah, blah.
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. I think that's so important when you are self-employed because it can
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be so lonely to be sat at a desk by yourself or you know, at a dining table
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by yourself in front of a laptop and feeling like you're just plugging on.
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But what's, you know, what's happening?
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Is anything really, what is this really working?
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Am I doing the best thing?
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And I think having a network, You know, to help you kind of work through
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that is a really important thing.
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I had huge imposter syndrome when I came to your networking events.
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Like I, I was like, I can't, you know, people think I'm rubbish.
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Everyone's there much better than me.
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They're all much more experienced.
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They all know each other.
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Who, who am I gonna talk to?
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And even now, like I still don't like love turning up.
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I mean, I love turning up to your events, but like there's a lot of
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people that I don't know there still because having kids of out the loop, I
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don't get as involved in the Facebook group and stuff as I used to cuz I just
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don't have the the capacity to do it.
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And so I think.
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That I still feel like, oh, everybody knows each other.
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No one's gonna wanna talk to me.
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You know, I, I won't know what to say.
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Maybe I'll just pop along and have a quick drink and then go home, you know?
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And I think just getting out the door is always the hardest bit.
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I think when these things, you just, it's easy to talk yourself out of going.
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It's harder to talk, talk yourself into going.
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So if you book something and you book it and you think, yeah, I'll go, and then
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as closer you get to the time you're like, oh, maybe it'll get canceled.
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Or maybe I won't have to go.
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Maybe I'll find that I'm busy.
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And it's really easy to talk yourself out of going to these things, but
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it's so important to go and to have a network and to have conversations
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with people in the same industry as you because you can just feel like,
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oh, an island floating around with no, nobody to help you or no one to talk to.
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So I think it's made a huge impact to me personally because you know,
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I used to have a lot of people that I would go for drinks with and stuff
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after work when I worked in London and have that kind of social connection.
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And a lot of that now might be digitally, like via social media
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and networking groups and stuff.
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Having the face-to-face stuff is really important too, in terms of
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like working with people in, in who I've met through you, Becca, I've,
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I've done like the styled shoots.
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I've recommend people, people recommend me.
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I do, I do lots of branding work for some people that I've known for years.
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From your, your staff, so it's, it's kind of vast really.
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The, the reach that you are like you doing that has had.
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You know, it takes a lot of, you know, from your point of view to stand up
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and say, yeah, I'm gonna do this.
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I'm gonna put my head my name, forward to be the person to rally everyone.
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So I suppose we all need to thank you as well, Becca.
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Could you do a brilliant job of that?
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Becca: Thank you.
15:49
I appreciate that.
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And funnily enough, I think back, and I think I had huge imposter syndrome.
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Who was I to just drop into random people's inbox and
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invite them along to event.
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But again, I'm glad I did it.
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I'm glad I didn't talk myself out of doing that because some
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amazing connections have been made.
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And one thing I love about your story as well is you said when I invited you to
16:07
that event, you'd heard of that venue and you thought maybe it would be somewhere
16:11
that you wanted to have a connection with.
16:12
And since then, you've shot numerous weddings at Coltsfoot country.
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Becky: I have shot a lot of weddings at Coltsfoot Country retreat.
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Absolutely.
16:20
It does help that.
16:21
It's like 10 minutes away from my front door.
16:23
But yeah, it's a lovely venue and you just have to, it's like I sometimes think, you
16:27
know, if you don't, just a, if you don't ask then you don't get, and sometimes
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like if you just, I mean you just go and talk to people and then, and then
16:36
it, you kind of, the conversations lead.
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You know, one thing leads to another and you end.
16:40
Further down the road and, you know, making, I've got quite great, like,
16:43
good connections with that venue now.
16:44
Like they know who I am and they know that my work is good so
16:47
that they, so they trust me for.
16:50
Coming along and recommending me and stuff, so it's good.
16:52
Absolutely.
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Becca: As you know, I love a good connection and one of my favorite quotes
16:56
is a simple hello could lead to a million things, and you never know where that
17:00
conversation might lead either immediately or down the line in the future.
17:04
Now, as I mentioned, Becky, Since we've known each other since 2016, you've
17:08
gone through some huge changes in your business and in your personal life.
17:11
You've had two children.
17:12
And I think one thing that we just don't talk enough about is what it is like
17:16
becoming a parent and being self-employed.
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And there are some great benefits to it.
17:20
As you talked about earlier.
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It can be a great way to be at home more.
17:25
And one of the things I love is being able to go and pick
17:27
my kids up from school, but we.
17:29
Also paint it as this rosy picture because it does change things.
17:32
And you did say you went from being someone who could flit around and
17:35
go to networking events to having these small children at home.
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So how has that impacted your business?
17:41
How have you navigated through those past few years?
17:45
Becky: I don't really know, Becca, to be honest with you, , I'd done it on a, on
17:50
very little sleep and very little time.
17:53
I mean, my daughter, my first child was much easier in terms of the sleep.
17:57
She was brilliant.
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I, she used to go down for her nap for two hours, sudden solidly in
18:01
the middle of the day and I'd just sit and edit and work and stuff.
18:03
It was great.
18:04
But I think so, I think, well, I mean, most people are a little
18:07
bit naive when they go into having their first child, I think.
18:10
like, you know, you're gonna not have as much sleep, you know,
18:13
you're not gonna have as much time.
18:14
But I remember thinking, oh, it's fine.
18:15
I'll just kind of put a playpen down and she can just play while I'm working.
18:20
. That'll just be, I'll be brilliant.
18:22
It'll work really well.
18:23
I think I was fortunate that I'd had a couple of years of business pre-children,
18:28
so I had a couple of years to really try and lay some foundations to my business
18:32
and to kind of get some processes and things in place that would work for me.
18:38
The years that I was perhaps less active.
18:40
So as an example, I blogged.
18:43
Loads and loads in the first few years of my business and I still get inquiries
18:48
and bookings and my SEO is still good because of that work that I put in then.
18:52
So I think that was, I was really fortunate and I didn't necessarily do it
18:55
with that in mind, but looking back now, like those kind of things that you can
19:00
do will serve you further down the line.
19:02
You know, that's like evergreen kind of marketing that you can do that's
19:05
never gonna, like those blogs still are still there and they still pop up.
19:09
Every now and then I get.
19:10
Hits to my website from certain blogs I've written about certain
19:13
topics that people find me.
19:16
So that's really good.
19:17
I, again, not probably quite naively, just thought.
19:20
Yeah, well I'll just, just keep shooting weddings with kids.
19:24
It's fine.
19:26
So in 2018, I had my daughter, she was born in May, which is obviously just
19:30
the kind of the beginnings or like the early part of the wedding season.
19:35
So I didn't have to shoot loads when I was pregnant, which was good.
19:38
I did have a good pregnancy, so that was also good.
19:41
I think I went back a bit too.
19:44
I, I went back when she was two and a half months old, which was not, I mean,
19:47
she was late, so it wasn't meant to be three months, but she came two weeks late.
19:50
So it ended up being, she was very little and it was all quite overwhelming.
19:54
And towards the end of that year, I really started to struggle because I had a lot
19:58
of work and no time and no sleep, and it was hard and I really did struggle.
20:05
So with my second child, I kind of made that choice that
20:07
I didn't want to work as much.
20:10
I wanted to reduce my amount of weddings, not put so much pressure on.
20:13
Enjoy maternity leave if there's such a thing when you are self-employed.
20:18
And then the pandemic happened , so I decided when I found out I was
20:22
pregnant just before the pandemic, I thought I'm gonna have, I'm only
20:24
gonna do 10 weddings in 2021 cause my son was due at the end at November.
20:29
So obviously out of wedding season, which was handy, um, but then the
20:32
following year I knew was gonna be busy.
20:34
So I, I thought I'm gonna do, gonna do 10 weddings across the year, across
20:37
the whole year, and that'll be nicely spaced out and I'll be able to not put
20:40
too much pressure on myself and not make the mistakes that I made the first time.
20:44
But then obviously because of the pandemic, everyone from
20:46
2020 moved to 20 20, 20 21.
20:50
And so at one point I had 30 weddings in the diary instead of 10.
20:54
And I was like, well, I dunno what else.
20:56
I dunno what to do about this.
20:57
I'll just have to just manage obviously the pandemic extended beyond, you know,
21:03
Beyond when people might have expected or anyone really expected when people
21:06
started rebooking weddings in 2020.
21:08
So I didn't kind of properly go back to weddings until June of
21:12
that year, but I still did 22 when I was only planning on doing 10.
21:16
My son was a bit older when I went back, which was easier, but he
21:18
didn't sleep, so that was harder.
21:21
, you just have to kind of do what you have to do.
21:24
Like I was fortunate that, you know, I have a very supportive other.
21:28
I was fortunate that I could afford to have a day where we paid a child
21:32
minder to come into the house and sit with the kids downstairs, cuz at that
21:36
time my daughter was not at school.
21:38
She was only three.
21:39
So I just had to make the time when I could, when I could get the time,
21:43
I outsourced as much as I could, and I just accepted I was gonna take a
21:46
hit on profitability and just called in favor, favors and called in help.
21:53
It was, it's just impossible to do otherwise.
21:56
Again, like I didn't have the best mental health through that time.
21:59
But then I don't think anyone did really through the pandemic and the, the kind of,
22:03
the repercussions that were placed upon the wedding industry in, in particular.
22:08
But, you know, now they're a bit older.
22:09
It's still a struggle.
22:10
It's still a, you know, like I, I, only enough, the first time this year
22:13
I've actually sat and properly like made myself set myself some goals for
22:18
income and for, you know, bookings and stuff because I'm, I'm sort of, I'm
22:22
working on expanding other sides of my business other than weddings and so
22:26
into branding and perhaps into families as I get a bit further down the line.
22:29
But I, I worked all this out and I was like, great, I need to do
22:31
this many bookings and do this is when I'm doing my marketing and
22:34
I'm gonna do this, this, and this.
22:35
And then I looked at my diary and I was like, well actually I only have one full
22:38
day that I can work a week when my kids are out of the house until five o'clock.
22:43
Like, that's the only day I.
22:45
To, to do this work and it's all very well saying I can book a branding shoot
22:49
every week, but I need also need to edit that branding shoot and I need to edit
22:53
the weddings I'm doing at the weekend.
22:55
So I just need, it's still a struggle and it is still.
22:58
It's difficult to manage and it's, I think obviously, again, because
23:01
I'm not the main breadwinner in our family, like my, my work ends
23:07
up becoming like not the priority.
23:09
So if the kids are off school and sick for any reason or if there's an inset
23:13
day, then that's my working day that gets eaten into, and that's understandable.
23:17
You know, we have to pay the mortgage and it's, and mine sort of takes the
23:21
backseat and I dunno if that's just being a well woman or, you know, being
23:25
a mother like, like you just have to.
23:27
Take the hit a little bit and that is sometimes really frustrating.
23:31
But I have a fantastic other half who does a, like loads with the kids as well
23:35
and you know, he's always with them at the weekends when I'm working and stuff.
23:38
But it is a daily struggle and just have to kind of pick what it is I'm gonna do.
23:43
And like, there's a lot of the, maybe the networking or the training and
23:47
stuff that, you know, that you have so much fantastic training that I'm
23:50
just not able to take advantage of because, you know, I, I just don't.
23:55
The time I have to kind of really, really try not to get myself off my plan of
24:00
the week when I've got stuff to do.
24:04
Becca: And I think when you're short of time though, I do think that it makes
24:07
you be more efficient with your time because when you have all the time in
24:10
the world, you can fritter it away.
24:11
But I learned very early on when my children were very small, I had such a
24:16
short amount of time that I had to make the most of every minute, and I became
24:20
incredibly efficient with the time that I had because I had no other choice.
24:24
I think as well as self-employed, business owners, we are very resilient.
24:28
We make it work.
24:28
We do crazy things like work late at night sometimes, or you know, working while
24:33
children nap and all that kind of thing.
24:35
We are very resilient, but I also think we can make ourselves feel guilty.
24:39
We put way too much pressure on ourselves, and I was having a conversation just
24:43
yesterday about how we can feel guilty that we're not involved enough in our
24:47
business, and then we feel guilty that we're not involved enough with our
24:49
children and we're in this constant.
24:52
Cycle of feeling guilty about it and actually everyone's feeling the same.
24:57
And I think sometimes we do just need to take that pressure off a little bit.
25:00
And if you are listening to this now, and I know there will be people listening who
25:03
feel like they're right in the middle of that juggle where they've got toddlers
25:08
at home, maybe they're listening to this while they're trying to do other things as
25:11
well, and they feel like their head's half in business and half in with the children.
25:16
My encouragement to you is it does get easier.
25:19
I mean, Becky, when we first met, I was pregnant with my second
25:22
child, she's now six, and I've been through that really tough juggle.
25:27
I know it is mad that she's now six, but now both, I don't believe she's six.
25:30
Both my children are in school and all of a sudden I'm finding,
25:35
okay, I can actually breathe again.
25:36
Now I can actually get my focus back.
25:39
And actually some of those things that I.
25:41
Have the time to focus on over the last five or six years
25:45
I can do now, and it's okay.
25:47
And so if you are listening to this and you feel like I'm just in the middle
25:50
of this right now, give yourself a break and realize it's not forever.
25:54
It will get easier.
25:55
And there will be things that you may have to neglect in your business
25:58
now that you can come back to in a few years time and start to.
26:03
Becky: I did some marketing, I did a quick marketing training with somebody
26:07
recently, and she talked about having a a for now plan and a a later plan.
26:14
So having, you know, ideally I would be blogging every week and I'd be, you
26:18
know, doing X, Y, z, all these different marketing activities and this big
26:21
marketing campaigns, and I'd push this and I'd push that and I'd, you know, do a
26:25
Christmas deal and I'd do what, whatever.
26:28
And, but actually you can write that down on.
26:31
Later plan.
26:32
And as long as you've got a finale plan of what you can manage, then
26:36
you can start to add those bits from that other plan in to make it your
26:40
later plan, if that makes sense.
26:41
Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
26:43
Now, one of the things you've been growing over the last few years, Becky,
26:46
alongside your wedding photography, is your branding photography business.
26:49
And I know that's something that you're looking to do more of,
26:52
especially as your children start to get older and go into school.
26:56
And you are actually one of my branding photographers, most of my brand.
26:59
with Becky and I love working with Becky.
27:02
So I just wanna chat a little bit about brand photography with you for a second.
27:05
So if people are listening and thinking, I don't really even know
27:08
what this brand photography is all about, or why it matters, like
27:12
just tell us a little bit about it.
27:14
Becky: Well, branding photography, I, I really love it and I sort of
27:17
started doing it by accident, I think.
27:19
Because when I first started in, you know, working in the wedding industry
27:23
and, and having this like networking and stuff, obviously as a photographer, you
27:27
know, photographers are very fortunate in that we are very content heavy.
27:31
We have a lot of photos that we can share and stuff that we can put on
27:35
Instagram and, you know, we can show our work because our work is stuff that
27:40
is, it is not a physical product that we have to, you know, like a bouquet of
27:44
flowers or, you know, like a DJ booth or you know, DJ music or whatever.
27:48
It's lends itself perfectly to, to sharing content as a wedding photographer.
27:53
And I started to kind of obviously sharing stuff with people that
27:56
I was meet, like I was working with and I was meeting and stuff.
27:58
And then that led a little bit onto doing some branding photography and
28:01
then doing some stalled shoots as well.
28:04
Like I started.
28:05
Trying to make sure that I was taking pictures of people with their stuff
28:08
as they were setting up and stuff.
28:09
So I ended up doing a bit of branding photography from quite early on and then
28:13
people started asking me to, you know, to, oh, I really need some content, you know,
28:17
of me doing this or, so just some photos that I can share of myself, you know,
28:22
when I'm, you know, it's really important to have your face in your business and I
28:25
think people, when people start to realize that, you know, first of all, I think
28:28
sometimes people, when you're launching a business, you're like, oh no, I don't.
28:32
I don't like putting my face out there.
28:33
I don't like having, I don't like having my picture taken.
28:35
Like I don't, you know, my product is my product and then I'm
28:38
just kind of behind the scenes.
28:40
And I think when people start to realize that actually, especially on social media,
28:46
Having, putting yourself out there as the face of your brand is like, so important,
28:50
especially in the wedding industry.
28:51
I think as well, it like people really kind of cotton onto the fact
28:55
that, you know, I, I personally, if I share a picture of a wedding, I guess
28:59
quite a lot of lights, it's fine.
29:01
Quite a lot of engagement.
29:02
If I put my face on my, my grid, the, you know, so you know, when you do
29:06
your best night at the end of the.
29:08
And sometimes just like I've, if I've shared pictures of myself throughout
29:11
the year, most of it just ends up being my face . So, because people love to
29:16
see the person behind the business and they love to see you being yourself
29:19
and being honest and being like putting yourself out there and I suppose being
29:23
a bit vulnerable, like I think it's just like a really, really vital part to your
29:29
business, especially in our industry.
29:31
And so branding photography, like has been fantastic for me in.
29:36
Networking more and meeting lots of more people, but also meet like meeting
29:39
other people outside of weddings as well, like meeting other small business
29:43
owners and learning from them as well.
29:45
I absolutely love working with small business owners and small teams
29:48
and entrepreneurs and like helping them to collect, communicate what
29:53
it is they're trying to get across to their, to their audiences.
29:57
It's just like such an important thing to put your yourself forward and to
30:01
put your, your face to your business.
30:03
I think, I mean, the other side of branding photography also as well as
30:07
just putting your face out there is that having high quality imagery of
30:11
your product and your work is like, there's just no replacement for it.
30:15
Like you can take some pictures on your phone of what it is you're
30:18
selling, but like a high quality image just makes everything look
30:22
like it completely elevates your.
30:24
So if you have a website where you've got like a mismatch of photos from,
30:28
and it's difficult as well for other suppliers in the wedding industry
30:31
because if you work with a variety of different photographers and you've got
30:33
a variety of different photographic styles on your website, that can be
30:36
a little bit confusing or off-putting and it might not fit your brand.
30:40
Properly.
30:41
And so having a brand shoot really can just make everything really cohesive
30:45
and really communicate to your audience what it is you are about and what
30:49
you are selling them and how you want your brand to be perceived as well.
30:53
So there's just like, it, it's, it can be a bit overwhelming I think,
30:56
initially when you first start a business because you need to have
30:59
imagery, but you don't necessarily know where to get it from or how to get it.
31:02
And I think that brand photos are like a vital.
31:06
Of anyone's business from the get-go because it can really show
31:10
everyone exactly what it is that you are offering in the best way.
31:14
Becca: I totally agree, and I think it's an area that people neglect
31:17
of, an area that people don't feel that they need to invest in.
31:19
And actually it can have a huge impact on your brand quality, on your brand
31:24
style, on your engagement, on just the way that people perceive you.
31:28
And I think it's really, really, I.
31:29
But I also know people are gonna be listening to this and
31:31
thinking, that sounds awful.
31:33
I don't wanna be in front of the camera.
31:35
I don't wanna have my picture taken.
31:37
This is just cringey.
31:39
What would you say to those people?
31:40
How do you give people confidence to know that actually it's okay.
31:43
Becky: Well, I mean, I work with, I mean I, I don't think I've worked with
31:46
anyone really ever who said, yeah, I'm totally cool with having my picture taken.
31:49
I love it.
31:50
It's brilliant.
31:52
, I think everybody from my wedding clients to my branding clients.
31:57
Has that.
31:57
And to be honest, me as well, when I have cause I have branding shoots
32:00
periodically as well with other photographers, it's awkward, isn't it?
32:03
Having a picture taken.
32:04
You just suddenly, like, you go from sitting, chatting to someone and then
32:08
a second a camera comes out, you're suddenly like, okay, right now,
32:10
now, now this is being documented.
32:12
And how do I, how am I sitting?
32:13
What do, where am I, what do I do with my hands?
32:15
What, like these things on the end of my arms, why did,
32:17
where do I normally put them?
32:18
Like, do I sit like this or do I sit like this or do I look over it?
32:20
And it is just, it's suddenly you suddenly have this.
32:24
Everything's running in your mind and you're thinking about it all and
32:26
like, and it makes you feel super.
32:28
I think it all stems from like when you are at school and you sit and have
32:32
your school photo taken, and maybe your parents have been sat and done
32:36
your hair perfectly and they're like, write your school photos this day.
32:38
So make sure you don't mess up your hair and make sure you smile properly and
32:42
make sure that you, you know, don't like.
32:44
Mess up your uniform.
32:45
And then you go and you are sat there all day waiting for your photos,
32:48
and then you finally get your chance to go and have your photo taken on.
32:51
Your classmates are lined up at the other side of the room and watching
32:53
you, and then there's someone with a big camera and a big light, and it's
32:56
like, oh, and a funny background.
32:57
And you have to sit there and then you have to smile and then
32:59
make hope that you know it.
33:01
It makes the grade and like that's just the opposite of what
33:05
a branding photo shoot is like.
33:07
Like for me, I.
33:09
Primarily love to try and like get to know people when I'm taking their
33:12
picture rather than just being like, hi.
33:14
Right.
33:14
Let's take some pictures.
33:15
Okay.
33:15
Right.
33:15
Thanks.
33:16
Bye.
33:16
It's very much a kind of collaborative process.
33:19
I really wanna learn about people's businesses and what they are hoping to
33:24
achieve from their photos and how they want their brand to be perceived by people
33:28
who, their target audiences and the kind of message they're trying to convey.
33:31
And I also think that, People think they don't like, they don't photograph
33:35
well, just haven't been photographed by the right photographer because
33:39
they just are, everyone is photogenic because everyone is like a real person.
33:46
And I think that as soon as that real person is just relaxed enough to like
33:51
smile naturally rather than small, like, oh, I'm having my picture taken and have
33:56
that kind of, that barrier initially, then I think everyone is photogenic.
34:02
People can, everyone can look good in front of the camera.
34:04
They just need to be relaxed enough to feel comfortable . And that's
34:09
what I aim to do on a brand shoot.
34:11
I think usually by the end of a brand shoot people are like,
34:14
actually, this isn't so bad.
34:14
This is quite fun.
34:15
Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
34:16
And I definitely recommend to people to use the same photographer a number
34:22
of times for your branding images.
34:23
So as I said, me and Becky have been working on my branding images
34:26
for the last few years and we've had a number of shoots together.
34:29
And I remember back to my first branding shoot and.
34:32
Uncomfortable I found it and how awkward I found it.
34:35
But actually the more we've done it and the more we've worked together
34:37
and the more we've got to know each other and what works the better
34:40
and better the pictures have got.
34:42
And one thing I've learned as well for myself is actually you
34:45
don't have to do branding shoots.
34:47
That match everybody else's branding shoots.
34:50
And you can bring a bit of personality into it.
34:51
So one of my favorite shoots we've done was when we went to Winter Wonderland in
34:55
London, and I've got pictures of me on the carousel and drinking mulled wine.
34:59
And I absolutely love those pictures because they're fun and they are
35:03
me and they bring me to the front.
35:05
And actually, yes, we need some pictures of me sitting at a computer
35:08
and they're always important.
35:10
But if you can bring your personality into your image, It just makes
35:13
so much different, doesn't it?
35:15
Becky: Oh, absolutely.
35:16
Absolutely.
35:16
And I think one of the, so one of the processes that I go through with all of
35:19
my clients for branding is that I ask a lot of questions about the brand and
35:23
who it is that you are talking to and what you want them to see and think and
35:27
feel when they look at your imagery.
35:29
So whether that's pictures of you or whether that's pictures of your product
35:32
like that, all of that informs how.
35:35
We can think about the shoot and how we can style the shoot, where
35:38
we might go, what we might focus on.
35:41
You know, I work with a number of different clients who have different
35:43
requirements and over a different kind of, over, over periods of time when I
35:47
do multiple shoots, like we can kind of say, right, what worked last time
35:50
and, and what do you want more of?
35:52
And we can really tailor it to what people need.
35:55
I always like, I also do kind of like quick shoots where we have
35:57
just like a, cuz not everyone needs a full suite of images.
36:00
Like sometimes people just need like a couple of pictures of them
36:04
to kind of put out there on their social media or put on their websites
36:07
like, this is me, this is who I am.
36:09
And so like I do such shorter shoots for that as well.
36:11
I think that's also like, Really important and valid cuz some people
36:14
might think, oh I don't need like a full, like a day's worth of
36:17
photos cuz that's a lot of content.
36:20
But yeah, like a short shoot as well is a really good way of just kind of refreshing
36:23
your images and giving you a little bit of that kind of more authority I suppose.
36:28
Like and, and also just really communicating, like you say, like
36:31
your personality as well, like.
36:33
A lot of the, you know, the standard kind of brand photo is like, let's sit
36:37
in a, in a coffee shop with a, with a mug of coffee and, and like with
36:40
a laptop . And that's kind of great.
36:43
If you've not, you know, if you're starting out and you are the first
36:45
sort of foray into brand photography, having that is really important.
36:48
Like, that's a good kind of base to start with.
36:50
But like you say, it's really, you know, we can go to you.
36:54
Different locations like we went to.
36:56
Yeah, like say we went to like winter wonderland.
36:57
I've done like themed kind of ones around the seasons.
37:01
Often like having a wander around London is a great idea to kind of get
37:04
some different backdrops and stuff.
37:05
So it is like, you can, and in London actually, you can get all kinds of, you
37:09
can do something that's a bit more classy, like walk around in Mayfair, like the
37:12
fancy streets or you can go somewhere it's a bit more grungy, like shortage.
37:16
I did a shoot in Hampton New Wick, which is awesome.
37:18
There's loads of cool graffiti there and stuff, so, There's just like a
37:22
huge variety of things you can do to really like bring your personality out.
37:26
But that's something that I can kind of, I collaborate with people on to try and
37:29
work out what the best thing to do is.
37:31
Becca: Yeah.
37:31
There's so much more to it than just getting someone to take your picture.
37:34
It's not the same thing.
37:35
And the other thing is, for me, the seasonal shoot thing has really worked
37:38
out well for me because we had a year where we did different seasons of
37:41
photos and you don't think about it, but actually, Those pictures of me in a winter
37:45
coat, I can't use them in the summer.
37:47
No one wants to see a big winter coat in the summer.
37:50
And vice versa, when I've got my sunglasses on or my summer
37:53
clothes on, I feel like I can't really use them in the winter.
37:55
So if you have got the money to invest in photos, I do recommend getting some done
37:59
at different times of the year so that you can then use them for years to come.
38:03
And I do still go back and use some of the images even from two, three
38:06
years ago that we took, because they're still great images and I can use
38:09
them at different times of the year.
38:10
So if you're listening to this and you're thinking about a branding
38:13
shoot, Definitely look into it.
38:15
Definitely find the right person that is willing to work with you, and I will
38:18
make sure I share all of your details, Becky, in the show notes as well.
38:21
So if people do wanna reach out to you and talk to you about the branding
38:24
shoots they could have with you and the different things you offer,
38:26
all the information will be below.
38:28
Now we have talked for ages.
38:29
We've been all around the houses.
38:31
Becky, I've absolutely loved this conversation.
38:33
But before we draw it to a close, there's one question I always end
38:37
every podcast with, and that is, what's the one thing you wish you'd
38:41
known sooner in your own business?
38:43
Becky: I was thinking about this and there's so many things.
38:46
I think for me, I was thinking about it.
38:49
I think the mantra, or is it a mantra, I don't know.
38:52
Done is better than perfect and I think that I, you just have,
38:58
sometimes you just have to say, right, this is good enough for now.
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Right.
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Done doing something now and then perfecting it later if you have to or
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if you need to, is much better than.
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Faffing about and tweaking this and tweaking that cause it's not quite
39:12
perfect and you can waste a lot of time.
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And so since I've started trying to apply that to my, to my things I'm doing or
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things I'm getting out like, you know this Instagram post, well maybe I should just
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reword that or maybe I should reword this.
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Actually done is like I'm out there is better than perfect, like tweaked.
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So within an inch it's life and fiddled around with for hours and hours.
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It's wasting time when you could be doing other things.
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So yeah, I think my , my dad also said J F d, I just do it.
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I think that's quite an important thing that I sometimes think, right?
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If I'm, if I'm faffing around with something, you know,
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you just need to get it done.
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Just get it out there and then move on to the next thing that's gonna help you
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and your business and move you forward.
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Becca: Absolutely.
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I'm a huge believer in Done is better than perfect cuz you can always
40:00
go back and improve it in the end.
40:02
Becky, it's been such a pleasure talking to you.
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Thank you for being so open and honest and sharing with us.
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If people wanna find out more about you, about your wedding photography,
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about your branding, photography, or just chat to you in general, where's
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the best place for people to find you?
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Becky: Well, generally I'd say website wise is always good.
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If you wanna just have a little nosy.
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So my branding photography website is Becky Harley Creative dot Co dot uk.
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My wedding photography website is Becky Harley photography dot code uk.
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I'm also on Instagram at Becky Harley Creative at Becky Harley photo for
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my wedding, , my wedding photography.
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I'm also on Facebook and everything.
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I'm, I don't do Twitter, so don't look for me there.
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But, I'm in the usual places.
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Becca: Fabulous.
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And like I said, I'll make sure I link to everything in the show notes.
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Do go and reach out to Becky.
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She's very approachable.
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She even replied to that first message from me back in 2016.
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So if you've got questions, if you wanna talk to her about branding or just hear
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more about her journey, just drop into inbox and I'm sure she'll be happy to chat
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to you when she's got a moment to spare.
41:01
Becky, thank you for your time.
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Thank you, Becca.
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I love that conversation with Becky.
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Isn't she great?
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So much.
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Great insight, and I'm glad that she was able to be so honest with us as well.
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If you're thinking about a branding shoot, definitely reach
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out to Becky and chat to her.
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As I said, I'll use her myself, and she's incredible.
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I'll see you next time.