Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Sinister Golden State serial killer walks among us, female victim who survived tells story

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Sinister Golden State serial killer walks among us, female victim who survived tells story · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
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Speaker 1: Channel one two. The Golden State Killer is the most
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Speaker 1: prolific serial predator in the nation. I don't like to
0:19
Speaker 1: go out anymore. I don't go out by myself at
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Speaker 1: all anywhere. He was the boogeyman. He was the man
0:25
Speaker 1: in the bushes that we didn't know who he was,
0:27
Speaker 1: and we didn't know when he was going to strike again.
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Speaker 1: All I know is he raped fifty people and he
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Speaker 1: killed twow and one of whom was your sister, My sister,
0:36
Speaker 1: Shut up, kill you. A bump against the house, maybe
0:45
Speaker 1: the sound of a footstep shuffling along a fence outdoors,
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Speaker 1: maybe nothing at all, no warning whatsoever. The trademark of
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Speaker 1: the so called Golden State Killer? Who is he? What
1:05
Speaker 1: do we know? Now? Linked to at least one crimes
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Speaker 1: and potentially homicides? The victims their families still looking for him?
1:25
Speaker 1: And what an m o modus operandi? Method of operation two.
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Speaker 1: Come into a home in the middle of the night
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Speaker 1: where a woman is sleeping alone or possibly a couple asleep,
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Speaker 1: to bind the man, place him face down with dishes
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Speaker 1: stacked on his back, and then sex attack the woman,
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Speaker 1: threatening to kill her and the man if the dishes fall. I,
2:06
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime stories, and I want this
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Speaker 1: guy dead or alive. Joining me now. Michelle Cruz, the
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Speaker 1: sister of the Twelf murder victim Jane Carson Sandler, victim
2:31
Speaker 1: number five, author of Frozen in Fear, a true story
2:36
Speaker 1: of surviving the Shadows of Death. Billy Jensen with US
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Speaker 1: investigative journalists who went through all Michelle McNamara's raw chapters
2:46
Speaker 1: and put together her book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark.
2:51
Speaker 1: Paul Haynes, researcher of the book I'll Be Gone in
2:54
Speaker 1: the Dark. And Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case
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Speaker 1: Research Institute, to all of you, thank you for being
3:02
Speaker 1: with us. Cheryl McCollums, starting with you, this is the
3:07
Speaker 1: case that has seemingly alluded police and victims for years.
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Speaker 1: I think largely because he relocated from one part of
3:17
Speaker 1: California to the next part and possibly beyond. Why has
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Speaker 1: he managed, with all of these crimes to elude police? Nancy.
3:26
Speaker 1: He is willing to change the m O, He's willing
3:29
Speaker 1: to change location. He changes it up and just talks
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Speaker 1: police with it, so you know they say something on
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Speaker 1: the news about You know, he's never assaulted a woman
3:40
Speaker 1: with a man in the home. He changes it up
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Speaker 1: and he does that. It's it's remarkable that he has
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Speaker 1: been able to commit this many crops fifty rate ten
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Speaker 1: murders and has alluded police every step of the way.
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Speaker 1: California law enforcement now estimate fifth rapes in the county's Sacramento,
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Speaker 1: Contra Costa, Stanislaus, San Joaquin, Alameda, Santa Clara, Yolo. We
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Speaker 1: think commanded by the so called Original night Stalker. That's
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Speaker 1: fifty at the least, DNA conclusively linking him to eight murders.
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Speaker 1: Other murders linked by m O. Investigators suspect that the
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Speaker 1: same man committed three other murders too, in Rincio, Cordova
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Speaker 1: and Bassalia. It goes on and on and on. In fact,
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Speaker 1: he's got so many murders and rapes he even has
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Speaker 1: different monikers going by East Area rapists, the Golden State Killer,
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Speaker 1: the Original night Stalker. It goes on and on with
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Speaker 1: this guy, and still he alludes police. For all I know,
4:55
Speaker 1: he's no longer in California. Maybe he's in your home state.
5:00
Speaker 1: Let's go first to Jane Carson Sandler, victim number five,
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Speaker 1: author of Frozen in Fear, a true story of surviving
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Speaker 1: the shadows of death. Jane, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: Thank you Nancy for having me right now, just struck
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Speaker 1: with knowing how close you came to being murdered. Something
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Speaker 1: about you was different from his murder victims. Tell me
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Speaker 1: what happened. Well, I was six thirty in the morning
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Speaker 1: and my husband had just left for work. I heard
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Speaker 1: the garage door closed, and the next thing I knew,
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Speaker 1: there was someone running down the hall with a flashlight
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Speaker 1: and I yelled to my husband, what did you forget?
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Speaker 1: And it wasn't my husband. It was n with a
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Speaker 1: ski mask, holding a flashlight a large butcher knife. And
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Speaker 1: just before this man ran down the hall, my son
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Speaker 1: had gotten in bed with me, my three year old son.
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Speaker 1: So um, we were snuggling when this monster arrived at
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Speaker 1: my bedside and he uh. You can imagine the fear
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Speaker 1: that I was experiencing at this time, especially being that
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Speaker 1: my son was next to me. So um. He had
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Speaker 1: on a ski mask and black leather gloves, high top
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Speaker 1: black sneakers, and that's all I really knew because his
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Speaker 1: face was covered with ski mask with just slits for
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Speaker 1: his eyes. And then he proceeded to anytime I tried
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Speaker 1: to say something, he would say with clenched teeth, shop shop,
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Speaker 1: or I'll kill you. Shut up, shut up, shut up,
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Speaker 1: or I'll kill you. So um. Then um, he proceeded
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Speaker 1: to say he just wanted money, which was of course
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Speaker 1: a lie. And he then he gagged both of both
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Speaker 1: my son and myself. He blindfolded us, and he tied
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Speaker 1: us our ankles and our wrists with shoelaces. And then
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Speaker 1: the most frightening part about the whole ordeal was when
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Speaker 1: he moved my son. And then I knew that I
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Speaker 1: had no idea why he was moving him. Of course,
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Speaker 1: where was he taking him? I had no idea. And uh,
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Speaker 1: and then when he untied my ankles, then I knew
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Speaker 1: what he was there for. I don't even remember the rape,
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Speaker 1: because all I was concerned with is where did he
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Speaker 1: put my son? Um. He also had this um, this
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Speaker 1: ritual of tearing sheets, tearing towels, and I had no
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Speaker 1: idea what he was going to do with those you know,
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Speaker 1: what was he going to us? Well, what what was
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Speaker 1: he going to do? Strangle us with these sheets with
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Speaker 1: his TEF had absolutely no idea and again the fear
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Speaker 1: that I was experiencing was just overwhelming. He eventually, thank
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Speaker 1: the Lord, put my son back next to me. And
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Speaker 1: I don't know why he had moved him in the
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Speaker 1: first place. It was probably because he wanted more room
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Speaker 1: on the bed or I don't think it was because
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Speaker 1: he was being a nice guy. I just think he
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Speaker 1: needed more room to operate. And then as we're tied up,
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Speaker 1: gag blindfolded, and he went in the kitchen and started
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Speaker 1: um rattling pots and pans. I'm not sure if he
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Speaker 1: was cooking something, but he opened the refrigerator and again
8:45
Speaker 1: was making a lot of noise with these pots and pans.
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Speaker 1: And they need to come back in the bedroom and
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Speaker 1: threaten us again and say don't move. If I hear anything,
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Speaker 1: I'll come back and kill you. So we laid there.
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Speaker 1: I laid there probably about thirty minutes, trying to hear
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Speaker 1: if I could hear if he was still in the home.
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Speaker 1: And I was finally able to get my blindfold down
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Speaker 1: a little bit, and I realized it was light coming
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Speaker 1: through the window, so I was able to look over
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Speaker 1: at my son and he was asleep, and I woke
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Speaker 1: him up and I said We've got to get out
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Speaker 1: of here. We've got to get out of here. So
9:22
Speaker 1: hobbling down the hall to the front door. We couldn't
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Speaker 1: get out because there was a chair blocked up under
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Speaker 1: the door knob. And then we went around to the
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Speaker 1: kitchen and the screen door was opened, the sliding door.
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Speaker 1: So I hobbled around to the front gate, screamed for
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Speaker 1: a neighbor, and then went into the neighbor's home and
9:43
Speaker 1: she called the police from there. Carol Daily, my angel uh,
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Speaker 1: showed up and took me to the emergency room. There
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Speaker 1: were three mail policemen that showed up initially to speak
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Speaker 1: with me, but I had no desire to speak to
10:00
Speaker 1: those men. Um. But when Carol arrived, she was so
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Speaker 1: caring and so loving, and I just felt so safe
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Speaker 1: with her. So she took me to the emergency room
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Speaker 1: and stayed with me for about oh well over an
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Speaker 1: hour before she had to leave. There were no cell
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Speaker 1: phones back at that time, so it's not like she could,
10:19
Speaker 1: you know, check in with her partners. So um. I
10:24
Speaker 1: was alone during the rape exam, which was done by
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Speaker 1: a mail and at one minute I was laughing and
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Speaker 1: joyful that I was alive, and my son was alive,
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Speaker 1: and the next moment I was sobbing that, oh my god,
10:38
Speaker 1: what had just happened to us? So that was a
10:41
Speaker 1: very unpleasant experience. The rape exam, the shot of penicill
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Speaker 1: and the shore I didn't have a venerial disease. And
10:47
Speaker 1: then the morning after pill so I didn't get pregnant, um,
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Speaker 1: and then I had to go home to a home
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Speaker 1: that I that um that I felt so violated and
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Speaker 1: I hated so that my story and that's the news
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Speaker 1: to print. But that was over forty years ago and uh,
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Speaker 1: almost forty two now, and I have to say that
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Speaker 1: I'm not sorry it happened to me, Nancy, I'm not
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Speaker 1: sorry at all. I really think that the Lord had
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Speaker 1: chosen me to be victim number five because new eventually
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Speaker 1: I would turn my mess into a message and by
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Speaker 1: helping other women on reaching out to others, that I
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Speaker 1: would glorify him. So I am really um grateful. And
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Speaker 1: I've met so many amazing folks through this journey, Michelle
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Speaker 1: and Debbie and reunited with Carol Daily and after forty
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Speaker 1: years and with um Inspectors shall be and just everyone
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Speaker 1: that I've met through this, uh, this journey it's just
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Speaker 1: it's just been amazing. So my my goal now is
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Speaker 1: just to reach out help other victims and let them
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Speaker 1: know that they're going to be okay. Um, they just
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Speaker 1: the most important thing they need to do is go
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Speaker 1: and get help, Go to a rape crisis center, talk
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Speaker 1: to someone that's been through something similar, because they'll remain
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Speaker 1: a victim if they keep their soult the secret because
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Speaker 1: as we say in a A, we're only as sick
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Speaker 1: as our secrets. And uh, the moment we start to heal,
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Speaker 1: the moment that we're heard, in the moment that we're validated. Jane,
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Speaker 1: I didn't even want to interrupt you to ask a
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Speaker 1: question yes' because your story and your testimony at the
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Speaker 1: end of that story is just amazing. And how you
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Speaker 1: have managed to survive through that and now find a
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Speaker 1: way to praise the Lord and find your way through
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Speaker 1: a nightmare. It's a real inspiration to me. You know,
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum with me, director of the Cold Case Institute.
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Speaker 1: I don't know, Cheryl, how many between you and I
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Speaker 1: rape victims we have counseled and I have represented in court.
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Speaker 1: And her words really move mes. Phenomenal Nancy and the
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Speaker 1: fact that she would take what happened to her and
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Speaker 1: turn that into something where she can help other people
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Speaker 1: is nothing short of extraordinary and amazing, and I firmly
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Speaker 1: believe that is God given. You know, back to with me,
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Speaker 1: victim number five. I hate to even use that because
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Speaker 1: it makes her sound like a number. What incredible group
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Speaker 1: of people joining us right now in our attempt to
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Speaker 1: apprehend and investigate the Golden State Killer. Michelle Cruz, Jane Sandler,
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Speaker 1: Billy Jensen, Paul Haynes, Cheryl McCollum, Jane I got. I
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Speaker 1: was trying to jot down questions rather than interrupt you.
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Speaker 1: First of all, how do you feel knowing this guy
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Speaker 1: is still on the loose and you know he hasn't quit,
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Speaker 1: probably not. You know, he could be in Europe, he
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Speaker 1: could be in jail before they started getting d n A.
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Speaker 1: He could be dead. Um. We just we just need resolution,
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Speaker 1: We need closure, we need peace. We need to stop
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Speaker 1: looking over our shoulder and wondering if that you know,
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Speaker 1: guy in the post office is the man. And one
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Speaker 1: thing that is really I find very um creepy is
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Speaker 1: the fact when when he is caught and we're all
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Speaker 1: in that courtroom, when he walks in that one of
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Speaker 1: us may have known him. Um, that to me is just,
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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, such a frightening thought. Your book is incredible,
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Speaker 1: Frozen in Fear, a true story of surviving the shadows
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Speaker 1: of death. Jane Sandler. Does your son, who was then
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Speaker 1: three at the time and with you in bed when
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Speaker 1: the Golden State kill or intruded, does he have any
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Speaker 1: recollection of this? He I didn't actually talk to him
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Speaker 1: until he was in college, Nancy. Then, Um, when I
15:10
Speaker 1: did tell him, he remembered, um, that we had a
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Speaker 1: robber in the house, but um, other than that, and
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Speaker 1: he remembers he was moved and where he was moved.
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Speaker 1: I don't know whether it was back in his bedroom
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Speaker 1: where it was on the floor next to the bed,
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Speaker 1: I don't know. And I just wonder if if there's
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Speaker 1: any uh underlining PTSD going on there. I have no idea.
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Speaker 1: He's he's doing so well, and uh, we don't really
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Speaker 1: talk about it very much, but he's he's doing really well.
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Speaker 1: Thank you. What does he do today. He's in the military.
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Speaker 1: He's a lieutenant colonel. Aren't you proud? I'm very proud,
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Speaker 1: very very proud, Yes, very proud with me In addition
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Speaker 1: to Jane Carson Sandler, Michelle Cruz, and Cheryl McCollum, are
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Speaker 1: Paul Haynes, who researched the book I'll Be Gone in
16:05
Speaker 1: the Dark, and Billy Jensen, who an investigative journalist who
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Speaker 1: went through all of Michelle McNamara's raw chapters to put
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Speaker 1: together her book I'll Be Gone in the Dark. To
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Speaker 1: Paul Haines, now, I know there are many murders linked
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Speaker 1: by DNA, murders linked by m O method of operation,
16:26
Speaker 1: as well as nearly two hundred crimes. Could you clarify
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Speaker 1: for me how they are linked. Sure, all the crimes
16:35
Speaker 1: in northern California were linked at the time by m
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Speaker 1: O is a very distinct EMO. It was clear that
16:41
Speaker 1: all of those crimes were the work of the same offender.
16:44
Speaker 1: UH was investigated in the series, and there was public
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Speaker 1: knowledge of the series to the point of hysteria. In
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Speaker 1: southern California, the links were not as clear, and aside
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Speaker 1: from the Santa Barbara crimes, which were clearly recognized as
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Speaker 1: a series, each crime was investigated by a different agency,
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Speaker 1: and some agencies disagree on whether or not there were connections.
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Speaker 1: At the time and after ten years passed from the
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Speaker 1: last crime, which was the murder of Janelle Cruz in Um,
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Speaker 1: The DNA links began to emerge once the Orange County
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Speaker 1: Crime Lab and the Ventura County Crime Lab began to
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Speaker 1: re examine their biological evidence. By two thousand one, links
17:32
Speaker 1: had been established among six of the crimes in southern California,
17:36
Speaker 1: and those crimes were linked by DNA to the East
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Speaker 1: Air Rapist series in northern California, as biological evidence had
17:45
Speaker 1: been preserved from three of the rapes in Contra Costa County,
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Speaker 1: but those three rates were strongly linked by m O
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Speaker 1: to the rest of the series. They're all indisputably the
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Speaker 1: work of the same offender. Well, you said that so
17:56
Speaker 1: much better than I tried to thank you. I mean,
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Speaker 1: and you guys know it cold. I guess it's one
18:02
Speaker 1: thing for you to know it cold like you and
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Speaker 1: Billy do. And then for Jane Sandler and Michelle Cruz,
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Speaker 1: the sister of the twelfth murder victim, to hear you
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Speaker 1: just rattle it off like that because they are actually victims.
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Speaker 1: And of course that leaves Sheryl McCullum and I just
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Speaker 1: in I almost speechless at the the number of crimes,
18:28
Speaker 1: rapes and murders this guy has committed, committed basically under
18:33
Speaker 1: our noses, guys from Paul Haynes, who researched the book,
18:36
Speaker 1: I'll be Gone in the Dark. And that's a very
18:38
Speaker 1: significant title, and I'm gonna let them explain why they
18:42
Speaker 1: use that title. This guy's m O. In case you're saying, well,
18:46
Speaker 1: that could have been anybody's not linked by DNA, No,
18:49
Speaker 1: it's this guy. He originally targeted women, either alone or
18:54
Speaker 1: with children. Like you heard Jane Carson Sandler, her husband
18:59
Speaker 1: had just suffed for work early in the morning, so
19:02
Speaker 1: early was dark outside. You know he was watching right um.
19:08
Speaker 1: But later he came to prefer attacking couples. His usual
19:14
Speaker 1: m I was to break in and wake up the couple,
19:18
Speaker 1: threatening them with a handgun sometimes a knife. They were
19:22
Speaker 1: bound with ligatures that he brought with him to the scene,
19:29
Speaker 1: blindfold and or gag the victims with towels that or
19:36
Speaker 1: sheets that he took from the home and would cut
19:39
Speaker 1: into strips. The way you heard Jane describe it, the
19:45
Speaker 1: female victim was often made to tie up the man
19:49
Speaker 1: with bootlaces. That's consistent with what Jane Samer has just
19:53
Speaker 1: told you before tying herself up. In many cases, the
20:00
Speaker 1: tying was so tight that victims had no feeling in
20:03
Speaker 1: their hands for hours after they were untied. He would
20:07
Speaker 1: then separate them and often statin dishes on the back
20:12
Speaker 1: of the man, who would then be faced down, stating
20:16
Speaker 1: that if he he the killer, heard the dishes rattle,
20:20
Speaker 1: he'd kill everybody in the home. And this is what
20:23
Speaker 1: is so bizarre. I'm gonna go to youth Cheryl McCollum
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Speaker 1: on this. He would spend hours at times in the home,
20:30
Speaker 1: ransacking closets, going through jewels, as Jane just described, going
20:35
Speaker 1: in the kitchen and eating. She said he was banging
20:38
Speaker 1: pots and pans so elly she could hear him back
20:41
Speaker 1: in the bedroom, clearly not afraid he was going to
20:43
Speaker 1: be caught. Not afraid at all, Nathy, He had thought them,
20:47
Speaker 1: he had prepared. Not only would he bring things living,
20:50
Speaker 1: but after he selected the home, he would leave pools
20:53
Speaker 1: around the house. He would leave windows unlocked. He was
20:58
Speaker 1: the most organized rapist I think I've ever said. We
21:02
Speaker 1: also believe that he may have traveled by bicycle to
21:06
Speaker 1: and from his car so his car would not be spotted.
21:09
Speaker 1: I mean the level of planning involved to Michelle Cruz,
21:17
Speaker 1: the sister of the twelve murder victim. I did not
21:24
Speaker 1: mention this to Jane, but to Jane and Michelle, I'm
21:29
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, overwhelmingly sorry for what you have lived through. Michelle,
21:38
Speaker 1: tell us your story, all right, Okay, Well, um, Janelle
21:42
Speaker 1: was killed. N I got a phone call so the
21:47
Speaker 1: next day from a friend and I have been up
21:50
Speaker 1: in Mammoth Mountain skiing. I um moved up there for
21:55
Speaker 1: a couple of months for the snow season, and my
21:59
Speaker 1: friend Carbon, she's is I think you need to sit down?
22:02
Speaker 1: And I said why and she said, well, her sister
22:06
Speaker 1: was murdered. And I said, I said, my sister got married.
22:10
Speaker 1: She said, no, your sister was murdered. And it was
22:15
Speaker 1: really hard to process. At that time. I just, um,
22:18
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. I was stuck in a snowstorm.
22:21
Speaker 1: I couldn't get home. My mom was in Cancoon, Mexico
22:26
Speaker 1: with my little brother, and so I just sort of
22:30
Speaker 1: sat there alone for the next couple of days in
22:32
Speaker 1: the snowstorm, thinking about what she had told me. And
22:36
Speaker 1: it's crazy because for the next twenty years I lived
22:39
Speaker 1: in a sort of a kind of a bubble. I
22:43
Speaker 1: don't even remember what happened. I think I just I
22:45
Speaker 1: don't know. I was in some kind of denial or something.
22:50
Speaker 1: I'd have these nightmares thinking that she was going to
22:52
Speaker 1: come back, and oh, my stars, Michelle Cruz, you're you're
22:56
Speaker 1: giving me flashbacks. After my fiancee was murdered shortly before
23:00
Speaker 1: our wedding, for years, I would have dreams that he
23:06
Speaker 1: was secretly alive somewhere and that he had just wanted
23:09
Speaker 1: to back out of the wedding and didn't want me
23:11
Speaker 1: to find out, and that everybody was in on it
23:13
Speaker 1: and I didn't know. Then there would be dreams where
23:17
Speaker 1: he would have somehow medically be brought back to life.
23:21
Speaker 1: And then there were dreams or he would be struck
23:23
Speaker 1: by lightning and be brought back to life. There were
23:26
Speaker 1: just so many wild, fantastical dreams. I I mean, I'm
23:32
Speaker 1: a j D, not an empty but I arm chair
23:37
Speaker 1: figured out that it was a way of I guess,
23:42
Speaker 1: of my subconscious trying to accept or make sense of,
23:46
Speaker 1: or or grapple with his his senseless murder. And also,
23:52
Speaker 1: you said, for twenty years, you're in a bubble. Can
23:54
Speaker 1: I tell you? Let's say, let me. It was well
23:58
Speaker 1: over twenty years after Keith was murdered that I would
24:04
Speaker 1: allow myself to actually be in a relationship committed and
24:12
Speaker 1: Mary I would not marry. I mean as a result
24:16
Speaker 1: of that, I was died in childbirth, giving birth late
24:20
Speaker 1: in life, and my daughter almost died. And that is
24:24
Speaker 1: how one of the ways that murder in nine nine
24:29
Speaker 1: affected me. I mean decades, so there's used chunks of
24:35
Speaker 1: time I can't remember, events I can't remember, and so please, no,
24:42
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with you. It it's just it's a
24:48
Speaker 1: hard thing to deal with. But I think victims need
24:52
Speaker 1: to hear your words. So let me stop talking and
24:55
Speaker 1: you go ahead. It's true, it's very, very hard. And
24:59
Speaker 1: I dreams were constant. I mean I had the dreams
25:02
Speaker 1: where she was in the military and she just didn't
25:05
Speaker 1: want to see the family for a while, and she'd
25:07
Speaker 1: come back in a year and she'd hied out with
25:10
Speaker 1: other people. She wouldn't want to come home. These were
25:12
Speaker 1: my dreams that I had a dream that maybe a
25:15
Speaker 1: couple of weeks later, that a man pool guy was
25:19
Speaker 1: walking on the side of our yard where our bedroom was,
25:21
Speaker 1: got through our window and he was and he would walk.
25:25
Speaker 1: He walked to the back of the house to clean
25:28
Speaker 1: the pool, while in reality we didn't have a pool. Um.
25:32
Speaker 1: But you know that the guy in my dream, his
25:34
Speaker 1: face was so clear, so I thought that, you know,
25:38
Speaker 1: jenday All trying to tell me who this guy is.
25:40
Speaker 1: And then there for a long time people suspect that
25:44
Speaker 1: it could have been a pool cleaner or someone at
25:46
Speaker 1: the pool. Um. But yeah, for a long long time,
25:50
Speaker 1: I lived like that, and I barricade myself in my
25:54
Speaker 1: bedroom and had always had my lights on and things
25:57
Speaker 1: under my drawl, my my door knob so nobody could
26:01
Speaker 1: break in, and dressers up against my window so nobody
26:04
Speaker 1: can break in through the window because I have something
26:08
Speaker 1: blocking it on the inside. Um. Nowadays, I have surveillance
26:12
Speaker 1: cameras and window alarms and all kinds of things around
26:15
Speaker 1: my house just to live comfortably. I'm never alone. I
26:18
Speaker 1: always have somebody here. So it definitely affected me. Um,
26:23
Speaker 1: the fact that he's never been caught and he's still
26:25
Speaker 1: out there, and I believe he's still alive. I have
26:28
Speaker 1: that feeling to Michelle, and I don't know why. Maybe
26:31
Speaker 1: Billy or Paul can help us sort through that. And
26:35
Speaker 1: and I'm curious. I'm gonna come back to Jane and
26:37
Speaker 1: see if she feels he's still alive with me. Jane
26:40
Speaker 1: and Carson Sandler and Michelle Cruise. Jane a victim of
26:45
Speaker 1: the Golden State killer who managed to live. Michelle Cruise
26:50
Speaker 1: the sister of the twelfth murder victim. And I hate
26:53
Speaker 1: to say it like that, Michelle, because it sounds like
26:56
Speaker 1: a number. It's Janelle Lisa Cruz. And Janelle was just
27:01
Speaker 1: eighteen years old. She was found bludgeoned dead in her home.
27:08
Speaker 1: Her family, as Michelle just told you, was on a vacation,
27:13
Speaker 1: the mom, the brother, the whole family in Mexico. A
27:17
Speaker 1: pipe wrench had been reported missing by Cruise's stepfather, and
27:24
Speaker 1: it is thought that is the murder weapon. Janelle was
27:29
Speaker 1: viciously raped before her murder. We know that DNA links
27:39
Speaker 1: him to Janelle Lisa Cruz's death, and the bludgeoning death
27:45
Speaker 1: with potentially a pipe wrench is so brutal, so brutal.
27:54
Speaker 1: Michelle tell me about Janelle in life. Jean now was
28:00
Speaker 1: very vivacious. Um, she just had a magnetic personality. A
28:06
Speaker 1: lot of people would see her walking down the street
28:10
Speaker 1: and do double takes, triple takes. She was just kind
28:12
Speaker 1: of one of those people that stood out, and she
28:16
Speaker 1: was very sweet, really sweet, but you know, she was
28:20
Speaker 1: one year older than me and so if anyone tried
28:23
Speaker 1: anything on me, she wasn't so sweet. So she was
28:26
Speaker 1: also you know, she had that saffoodside. But at the
28:30
Speaker 1: time that she was murdered, she was looking for apartments
28:35
Speaker 1: and getting ready to start college. Um. She wanted to
28:39
Speaker 1: be a legal secretary, was the last thing that she
28:42
Speaker 1: told me. Um. So she was trying to get her
28:46
Speaker 1: life together. And I know that they found a newspaper
28:50
Speaker 1: on the kitchen table, you know, when they had found her,
28:53
Speaker 1: and there was some apartments circled, and so, yeah, she
28:59
Speaker 1: was getting her life together. I wanted to move out
29:03
Speaker 1: of the house. You don't start her own thing, and
29:06
Speaker 1: so young and so beautiful, with so much ahead of
29:12
Speaker 1: her in life. It's the death of someone so young
29:18
Speaker 1: is bad enough, but to think they died in such
29:20
Speaker 1: a horrific way is another. Billy Jensen, thank you for
29:25
Speaker 1: being with us investigative journalists who exhaustively went through so much,
29:31
Speaker 1: so much information to put together Michelle McNamara's book I'll
29:36
Speaker 1: Be Gone in the Dark. Michelle, you know had written
29:40
Speaker 1: so much of this book. You know, we call it
29:43
Speaker 1: an obsession in the the subhead of the book. She
29:46
Speaker 1: definitely was. I mean, she was all about this. She
29:49
Speaker 1: wanted this case solved. And you know, I think with
29:53
Speaker 1: with the book coming out and her husband, who was
29:56
Speaker 1: the comedian Patton Oswald, going on a book towards we
30:00
Speaker 1: really are bringing this story to light and bringing this
30:03
Speaker 1: killer to light. I think with that, coupled with the DNA,
30:06
Speaker 1: we're going to get some answers to Paul Hainess, researcher
30:10
Speaker 1: on the book I'll be Gone in the Dark. Why
30:14
Speaker 1: what is the significance of the title I'll be gone
30:16
Speaker 1: in the dark he used He used that phrase or
30:20
Speaker 1: variations on that phrase with at least three victims, and
30:24
Speaker 1: you know, those are words that are designed to inflict terror.
30:27
Speaker 1: I think as much as this offender was a killer
30:30
Speaker 1: and a rapist who was also a terrorist, and I
30:32
Speaker 1: think that was his primary objective was to control and
30:36
Speaker 1: terrorize his victims. And to hear the phrase You'll be
30:40
Speaker 1: silent forever and I'll be gone in the dark as
30:42
Speaker 1: a threat, that's bone shilling. That reminds you that you're
30:45
Speaker 1: up against a faceless killer who will will slay you
30:50
Speaker 1: and get away with it. And I think that everything
30:54
Speaker 1: that he did with his victims was designed to play
30:59
Speaker 1: into specific fantasy, that he had a specific script that
31:02
Speaker 1: he was trying to follow. And oftentimes victims would report
31:06
Speaker 1: that it sounded as though he were reading from a script.
31:10
Speaker 1: And you mean the phenomena a paraphilia, sexual perversion, or
31:16
Speaker 1: deviation where it's all about um situations, fantasies, behaviors, and
31:25
Speaker 1: it it that attraction has been labeled as a fetish.
31:30
Speaker 1: The fact that you're telling me it sounded like he
31:32
Speaker 1: was reading from a script or he would always say
31:35
Speaker 1: the same words over and over. It almost sounds like
31:38
Speaker 1: the movie groundhog Day, where that you keep reliving the
31:40
Speaker 1: same day to try to perfect it. He kept reliving
31:43
Speaker 1: the same crime over and over, Paul. And you know,
31:48
Speaker 1: he would ask the victim of question and as soon
31:50
Speaker 1: as the victim began answering, he would he would say,
31:52
Speaker 1: shut up. You know, there was he had no interest
31:55
Speaker 1: in actually uh engaging with the victim. It was purely
32:00
Speaker 1: about enacting something. And you know, the stalking, the surveillance,
32:06
Speaker 1: this is all part of obviously a pattern of behavior
32:11
Speaker 1: that was titilating to this offender. And you know, when
32:14
Speaker 1: you consider the the exhaustive number of hours that um
32:21
Speaker 1: he invested in this activity, you know it must have
32:24
Speaker 1: consumed a sizeable portion of his life. And that's why,
32:27
Speaker 1: you know, when when you consider that this person has
32:32
Speaker 1: gone unidentified for over forty years, I mean, it's mind bothering.
32:36
Speaker 1: There's somebody in Sacramento who is aware of, to some extent,
32:41
Speaker 1: a person that they knew that their behavior and their
32:46
Speaker 1: their patterns and their schedule just just wasn't right, you know,
32:49
Speaker 1: And that's partly what we're hoping to do is jog
32:52
Speaker 1: someone's memory so that you know, they might surrender a
32:55
Speaker 1: name which would lead to the offender's identity and hopefully
32:58
Speaker 1: capture interesting This is what we believe would be his profile,
33:03
Speaker 1: according to one of the primary profiles done on him
33:08
Speaker 1: by Leslie d Ambrosia, a white male dressed well would
33:13
Speaker 1: not stand out as not fitting in in an upscale neighborhood.
33:19
Speaker 1: A well maintained car, engaged in deviant behavior and brutal
33:26
Speaker 1: sex and personal life, likely engaged in sex with prostitutes.
33:32
Speaker 1: May have had a criminal record as a team that
33:34
Speaker 1: was expunged knowledge of police investigation and evidence gathering techniques.
33:43
Speaker 1: Hated women for either real or perceived wrongs, some means
33:49
Speaker 1: of income, but did not work in early morning hours.
33:54
Speaker 1: Possibly married, probably as I've seen in so many of
33:59
Speaker 1: the attack cases I've prosecuted, started as a voyeur, lived
34:05
Speaker 1: and worked near Ventura, California in nine neat well organized,
34:13
Speaker 1: likely peeped into the windows of victims, including victims who
34:18
Speaker 1: were not attacked, just soap that in for a moment,
34:26
Speaker 1: skilled and experienced cat burglar, good physical condition, appeared to
34:34
Speaker 1: be harmless, and will continue committing these crimes until there
34:41
Speaker 1: is some sort of incapacitation, be at prison, death, or
34:45
Speaker 1: something else in his personal life. Likely to be considered arrogant, domineering, manipulative,
34:53
Speaker 1: and a chronic liar to Jane Carson Sandler, victim five,
35:00
Speaker 1: author of Frozen in Fear, A true story of Surviving
35:04
Speaker 1: the Shadows of Death. Does that profile sound accurate? Oh, yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am.
35:11
Speaker 1: It was interesting when um I think it was Paul
35:16
Speaker 1: that said that he uh sit the profile of a terrorist,
35:22
Speaker 1: and that just really hit me because that's really what
35:27
Speaker 1: he was trying to to, um to do, is terrorize
35:32
Speaker 1: us you know, rape is rape is not about sex,
35:36
Speaker 1: It's about power and control. And that's what he was
35:39
Speaker 1: all about. Power and control. To Michelle Cruz, that profile
35:44
Speaker 1: by Ambrosia, does that sound correct to you? I don't know.
35:49
Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't know because I'm so hard
35:53
Speaker 1: because I there's so many different types. It's hard to
35:56
Speaker 1: say you're right. To Billy Jensen, investigative journalists who helped
36:02
Speaker 1: put together I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara, Billy,
36:07
Speaker 1: let's weigh in on what his m O tells us,
36:12
Speaker 1: what more Q tell us about his modus operandi and
36:16
Speaker 1: his possible identity. Billy, he really is the most frightening
36:21
Speaker 1: serial killer I've certainly ever ever encountered, because you know,
36:26
Speaker 1: you think about the serial killers in history. Son of Sam.
36:29
Speaker 1: He was the people were outside, you know, they were
36:32
Speaker 1: on lover's lanes, or the Zodiac killer who felt but
36:34
Speaker 1: that you know, you can't think of anything more secure
36:37
Speaker 1: than being in your own home. And you know, I
36:41
Speaker 1: think that's the the idea that this guy probably was
36:46
Speaker 1: didn't have power in his life, and this is how
36:48
Speaker 1: he was exerting power. You know, he had this second
36:51
Speaker 1: life that he was that he felt this need to
36:55
Speaker 1: exert his power, his power over people, and that was
36:59
Speaker 1: what this was about. You know, I think Paul really
37:03
Speaker 1: hit the nail on the head there that this guy
37:04
Speaker 1: was a terrorist. The sex was was definitely part of
37:09
Speaker 1: the motivation, but it wasn't the main motivation. Um. The
37:12
Speaker 1: sex was being used for power. So the idea that
37:16
Speaker 1: you know, you know, the the best clues that we
37:19
Speaker 1: have in order to find this guy are we have
37:22
Speaker 1: his DNA and there's a lot of advances with familiar
37:26
Speaker 1: DNA going on right now where he we know he's
37:29
Speaker 1: not in the system, his DNA has done in the system,
37:32
Speaker 1: but maybe a relative of his is finding that or
37:37
Speaker 1: even potentially using you know, any kind of commercial DNA.
37:41
Speaker 1: Back to the m O that which is what I
37:43
Speaker 1: was asking you about. I read a very old news
37:46
Speaker 1: article from about nineteen seventy seven on micro face and
37:50
Speaker 1: it said that noise outside may have curved this guy.
37:55
Speaker 1: That time, he was referred to as the East Rapist,
37:58
Speaker 1: now the Golden State Killer. It was a group of
38:01
Speaker 1: noisy teenagers hanging out on a corner that may have
38:04
Speaker 1: saved a Foothill farms woman from becoming the twenty eight
38:08
Speaker 1: victim of the East Area rapist. The sheriff stated that
38:13
Speaker 1: a man believed to be the East Area rapists now
38:18
Speaker 1: the Golden State Killer, who had assaulted at that time
38:21
Speaker 1: twenty seven other women, broke into a woman's home around
38:25
Speaker 1: eleven thirty on a Friday night, tied her up. The victim,
38:29
Speaker 1: in her thirties, roamed through the home about two hours,
38:34
Speaker 1: but then because of the noise outside, he suddenly heard
38:37
Speaker 1: a burst of sound by a bunch of teen boys.
38:40
Speaker 1: He left. Now we know that the husband was not
38:45
Speaker 1: at home at the time, as did the Golden State Killer.
38:49
Speaker 1: There was a child in the home, just like Jane
38:53
Speaker 1: Carson Sandler told us her three year old son was
38:55
Speaker 1: in bed with her, but the child slept through the incident.
39:00
Speaker 1: This is chillingly familiar. The resident chosen for the attack
39:08
Speaker 1: was the second attack and the same area. Most of
39:13
Speaker 1: the East Area rapes occurred in an unincorporated area of
39:18
Speaker 1: the county. It went on and on. Here. The elements
39:24
Speaker 1: of the m O we're almost exactly the same. He
39:30
Speaker 1: comes in, the victim is asleep in bed, she wakes up.
39:34
Speaker 1: She this woman woke up with a flashlight shining in
39:37
Speaker 1: her face, just like Jane Carson Sandler did. She could
39:42
Speaker 1: not give a description because he had his face covered.
39:48
Speaker 1: He moved her from the bedroom to another room the
39:51
Speaker 1: same way he moved Jane's son. I mean, the similarities
39:57
Speaker 1: are so striking. We also know that he assaulted a
40:03
Speaker 1: thirteen year old girl after he tied up her mother.
40:10
Speaker 1: According to this sheriff, Paul Haynes, many people don't realize
40:16
Speaker 1: a thirteen year old little girl had been one of
40:19
Speaker 1: his victims. Yeah, there there were. I think there were
40:21
Speaker 1: two thirteen year old girls that that had been attacked
40:25
Speaker 1: by this offender. I think the last one of the
40:27
Speaker 1: last victims in Contra Costa was thirteen or fourteen years old. Um,
40:32
Speaker 1: you know, the age range was quite broad, from early
40:36
Speaker 1: teens to late thirties. And just to address some of
40:40
Speaker 1: the things that you've you've mentioned, um, you know, the
40:44
Speaker 1: serapists did not always go through with the sexual assault.
40:47
Speaker 1: And in the case of the victim you were describing, um,
40:51
Speaker 1: it's likely that he was deterred by the teenagers outside.
40:55
Speaker 1: In other instances, it's not quite clear why he didn't
40:58
Speaker 1: proceed with that element. Um, you know. But again, as
41:02
Speaker 1: as Jane was saying, Jane didn't. Actually, Jane didn't specifically
41:05
Speaker 1: remember the sexual assault. And this is something that crops
41:10
Speaker 1: up again and again and the reports in the interviews
41:13
Speaker 1: with victims. The sexual assault element itself was rather unremarkable.
41:17
Speaker 1: You know, it was the least memorable element in many
41:20
Speaker 1: instances of the attack. And you know, these instances where
41:24
Speaker 1: the ear as as we call him for short, did
41:28
Speaker 1: not proceed with the sexual assault. You know it we
41:30
Speaker 1: we still look on at those as as her attacks. Um,
41:35
Speaker 1: you know, because all of the other elements were present.
41:38
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the phone calls and the hang up
41:41
Speaker 1: calls that surround a lot of these cases. We can
41:45
Speaker 1: you tell me about that Billy Jensen. Well, one of
41:47
Speaker 1: the things that he would do is what and there
41:51
Speaker 1: there is some controversy as to whether they are connected
41:54
Speaker 1: or not, but he would call and I don't know
41:58
Speaker 1: if he called anybody that that's on this at all,
42:00
Speaker 1: but he would call people who he had attacked. How
42:04
Speaker 1: how could that not be connected? It could have been
42:07
Speaker 1: somebody that knew the person had been attacked and decided
42:11
Speaker 1: to just mess with them. Well, there are so many
42:12
Speaker 1: of them, right, I mean, they're there's so many of
42:17
Speaker 1: the hang up calls and the calls. I mean, You've
42:19
Speaker 1: got one victim gets a call that says I'm gonna
42:23
Speaker 1: kill you. I'm gonna kill you, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch.
42:27
Speaker 1: And it's that same evening. I mean, who, I don't
42:31
Speaker 1: know who else would have done that, and that actually
42:35
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that that called did the victim did received
42:37
Speaker 1: I called the same eating she was attacked. She received
42:39
Speaker 1: that call year and a half after the attack, but
42:42
Speaker 1: other victims had received similar calls, but not with the
42:44
Speaker 1: same burbage. Let's say here, I'm reading the transcript of
42:48
Speaker 1: January two. Later that evening, the same victim received another call,
42:54
Speaker 1: much more sinister in nature. The call was also recorded
42:58
Speaker 1: and identify by the victim as being the voice of
43:02
Speaker 1: the assailant earlier in the evening. She's going to earlier
43:07
Speaker 1: the evening. She had received the wrong number call um,
43:09
Speaker 1: but the attack was a year and a half prior that,
43:12
Speaker 1: And you think that may have been someone pranking her,
43:17
Speaker 1: and possibility, I think most likely that was the offender. Okay,
43:21
Speaker 1: because I thought you said that they were not connected,
43:26
Speaker 1: that they might not be connected, you know, I think
43:28
Speaker 1: anthy we want to be cautious in our viage, because
43:30
Speaker 1: these are things that have not been conclusively linked. So
43:32
Speaker 1: let's assume, for for for a moment, that it was
43:35
Speaker 1: a crank um to assume or to take as fact
43:39
Speaker 1: that that was that was the offender. You know, that
43:42
Speaker 1: could potentially send you in the direction of a red herring.
43:45
Speaker 1: So we believe that it most likely was the offender,
43:47
Speaker 1: but we want to also allow for the possibility that
43:49
Speaker 1: it was not. You know, if you look at the
43:51
Speaker 1: again the police reports, you see hang up calls and
43:54
Speaker 1: wrong number calls and all sorts of phone calls associated
43:58
Speaker 1: with not not not merely the victims themselves, but neighbors
44:01
Speaker 1: of the victims, which I think also indicates that rather
44:04
Speaker 1: than choosing a particular victim, this is an offender who
44:07
Speaker 1: targeted neighborhoods. And that's really important, Nancy, is that you know,
44:11
Speaker 1: the the the when we talk about the m O,
44:14
Speaker 1: the neighborhood that he chose, particularly when we're talking about
44:17
Speaker 1: Sacramento and Rancher Cordova. You know, you can do geographic
44:22
Speaker 1: profiling of his attacks, and that's going to be one
44:27
Speaker 1: of the big keys and finding this guy, because when
44:29
Speaker 1: you've attacked so many people in an area, you can
44:32
Speaker 1: see that he obviously either worked or lived in a
44:37
Speaker 1: specific area and or at least had a lot of
44:41
Speaker 1: business being there. Maybe you know, had a girlfriend there
44:44
Speaker 1: or something, and would go outside late at night and
44:46
Speaker 1: work this area. Because when you plot it out of
44:49
Speaker 1: the map, it's pretty clear that he probably um had
44:53
Speaker 1: something to do with that area and was in what
44:57
Speaker 1: a lot of people's figure is maybe a buffer zone
45:00
Speaker 1: in the middle of where all these attacks were to
45:04
Speaker 1: Jane Sandler joining me, Jane, when you hear the discussion
45:08
Speaker 1: of the ms and possible clues, what do you make
45:14
Speaker 1: of the clues that have been left behind, particularly all
45:17
Speaker 1: the crank calls, the threatening calls, the slurs on women
45:23
Speaker 1: that were in many of the calls to the crime victims,
45:27
Speaker 1: many of them state that they had a series a
45:32
Speaker 1: spate of hang up calls and obscene calls and just
45:36
Speaker 1: unusual calls, wrong number calls around the time of the attack.
45:43
Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Jane, He's just trying
45:46
Speaker 1: to cause more fear and more terror. Had hang up
45:50
Speaker 1: calls before and after, and he never said anything, but
45:57
Speaker 1: he would just stay on the line, and I just knew,
46:00
Speaker 1: I just knew it was him. I did have my
46:03
Speaker 1: phone wire tapped, but unfortunately they were never able to
46:10
Speaker 1: connect the source. But that's just causing you know, more fear.
46:15
Speaker 1: I did have them in my notes that occurred with
46:17
Speaker 1: you hang up phone calls. He was victims seemingly a
46:21
Speaker 1: big part of the Golden State Killers emos. Now police
46:25
Speaker 1: believe he got the victims numbers from burglarizing or casing
46:29
Speaker 1: their homes ahead of time. He would call both before
46:33
Speaker 1: and after the attack, maybe to figure out his targets whereabouts,
46:38
Speaker 1: or is Jane is saying, to further terrorize the victim.
46:43
Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Jane? That again was
46:46
Speaker 1: just that was his m oh, that was what he
46:49
Speaker 1: was all about, fear and terror. And that's why I
46:52
Speaker 1: named my book Frozen in Fear, because that was the
46:56
Speaker 1: emotion that was overwhelming. That was the one that's that
47:00
Speaker 1: was really stuck out to me. But you know, his
47:03
Speaker 1: m o of the clenched teeth, speaking through the clenched teeth,
47:07
Speaker 1: and the shut up. I mean, if he said shut
47:09
Speaker 1: up once, he said it, you know ten times, and
47:12
Speaker 1: his his tearing of the sheets, and I mean definitely,
47:16
Speaker 1: you know, it was the same person every time, every time,
47:19
Speaker 1: every time, and then to you know, follow that up
47:23
Speaker 1: when you think that, you know, you're beginning to heal,
47:26
Speaker 1: and then you get a phone call and it's a
47:27
Speaker 1: hang up again. Even today, the last time there was
47:31
Speaker 1: a show UM on TV about this case. UM a
47:37
Speaker 1: few days later, I had five hang up phone calls
47:40
Speaker 1: one one, and UM three three times one day and
47:44
Speaker 1: to the next. Now, after forty some years, that really
47:49
Speaker 1: frightened me. So we put an alarm system on our
47:52
Speaker 1: home just because of those five phone calls, those five
47:55
Speaker 1: hang up phone calls. Now, do I think it was
47:58
Speaker 1: the Eastereo rapist? No, but it was a prank. But
48:02
Speaker 1: that prank was enough to really frighten me. And even
48:05
Speaker 1: you know, if the phone rang right now and someone
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Speaker 1: were too not even to breathe, that just to you know,
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Speaker 1: is it a solicitor or is it the Eastery rapist
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Speaker 1: or is it you know, just someone that's just trying
48:17
Speaker 1: to play with my head? But it never goes away.
48:21
Speaker 1: Nancy with me is Jane Carson Sandler Michelle Cruz, both
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Speaker 1: victims of the now named Golden State killer. Take a
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Speaker 1: listen to one of his calls that we have obtained. Listen, yeah, yeah, yeah, right,
49:42
Speaker 1: now the so called Golden State Killer, still walking free
49:51
Speaker 1: many people believe. I want to thank Cheryl McCollum, director
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Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute, Paul Haines, researcher on
50:00
Speaker 1: I'll Be Gone in the Dark words of the Golden
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Speaker 1: State Killer, Billy Jensen, investigative journalists who extensively went through
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Speaker 1: raw chapters of Michelle McNamara's book just coming out, I'll
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Speaker 1: Be Gone in the Dark, and especially to Michelle Cruz,
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Speaker 1: sister of twelfth victim murder victim Janelle Cruz and Jane Sandler,
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Speaker 1: victim number five who still lives in fear, author of
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Speaker 1: Frozen in Fear, a true story of surviving the shadows
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Speaker 1: of death. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off Goodbye friend,