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Murdaugh Murders: Car Movements Poke Holes in Murdaugh Alibi? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. We are coming to you
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: live from the courthouse and the judge has just announced
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: a lunch break, and this time it really is a
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: lunch break. I'm talking soups and sandwiches, that kind of thing,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: not the break we took yesterday. Take a listen to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: our cut one, ladies and gentleen. We have to evacuate
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the building at this time, so we'll be in recess
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: until we discover what's going on. That recess was for
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: a bomb threat. As you all know, you legal eagles,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: there was a bomb threat right in the middle of
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the state's presentation yesterday. Gee, I wonder who would want
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to disrupt the state's presentation that said we now know
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: it was a male caller. I believe it was Christine,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: wasn't it from area code eight four three, But we
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: don't know who the caller was yet they think it
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: is eight four to three. There was no bomb, but
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: it waked havoc in the Murdog prosecution. Well, guess what,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: we're back at it and the judge as always cool
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: as a cucumber on the bench, but today in court
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: it was another matter. Damning evidence pouring from the witness stand.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation in series sixeleven.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the experts in just a moment,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: but I want you to hear what we have learned
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: about Alex the Murdog, high profile lawyer and legal air
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: there in South Carolina on trial for the murders of
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  Speaker 1: his wife, Maggie and adult son Paul. I want you
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  Speaker 1: to hear what the state has just put up on
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  Speaker 1: the stand. Take a listen to our starting at nine
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  Speaker 1: oh six forty eight pm and then into nine oh
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  Speaker 1: six fifty pm. So at that point it actually has
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  Speaker 1: an engine running event, so the car has been turned on. Okay,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: so nine oh six fifty pm, the vehicle is put
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: taken out a park and then let's go down the
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  Speaker 1: line nineteen o four one nine zero four was the
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  Speaker 1: next event where the vehicle went back into park at
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  Speaker 1: nine twenty two and forty five seconds. In your opinion,
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  Speaker 1: could the vehicle been moving between those two times? So
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  Speaker 1: it could have, I have no evidence of that. Roughly,
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  Speaker 1: how much time passes between the vehicle taking out of
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  Speaker 1: park at line sixteen seventy two and put back in
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  Speaker 1: a park at line nineteen o four approximately sixteen minutes
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  Speaker 1: at nine twenty two forty five pm. And that's the
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  Speaker 1: line nineteen o four. That's when the vehicle have been
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  Speaker 1: placed in a park. Correct, that's correct. Nine forty three
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  Speaker 1: oh five. The vehicle is now backed out a part correct,
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  Speaker 1: that's correct. Roughly how much time passes between the sense
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  Speaker 1: approximately twenty one minutes. Okay, you are hearing an expert
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  Speaker 1: on the stand, Dwight felksoft Key, and he is an
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: expert in car engines, car systems, car navigation systems. Think
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: about it. If you have a nav system in your car,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: it can tell you directions to get where you're going,
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  Speaker 1: It can tell you all sorts of things. Your car
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  Speaker 1: is actually pretty smart now. And of course Murdog has
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  Speaker 1: a car that's the top of the line. Joining me
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  Speaker 1: is Mike King, former police commander, host of Profiling Evil,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: and Brian Darr, senior forensic engineer and tire expert at
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: US Forensic Tire Expert dot Com. I want to go
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  Speaker 1: to both of you, gentlemen. I'll get to the rest
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: of you guests in just a second. Brian Darr, could
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: you interpret what this expert what Valkovski was saying, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it sounded like he was referring to the enfotainment system.
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  Speaker 1: The infotainment records all sorts of data, has track logs
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  Speaker 1: that it can track your whereabouts as far as when
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you turn to viequand turned off where you actually go,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: don't go, things of that sort. Okay, listen, I may
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: have a double legal degree, but I don't know anything
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: that you just said. Okay, unless it's got yellow crime
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  Speaker 1: scene tape around it, I don't know about it. Can
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  Speaker 1: you bring it down for me? He is saying, and
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I actually wrote it down. He is saying that there
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  Speaker 1: was an engine running event. Is he trying to say,
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  Speaker 1: Murdock turned his car on? Correct? Okay, that's an engine
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  Speaker 1: running event? Is that what you call it? Yes? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: the engine's running, the cars running. Okay, So the car
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  Speaker 1: has been turned on and that is nine h six
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  Speaker 1: point forty eight. And these times are very very important.
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  Speaker 1: Brian dhar hold on Mike King, I'm coming. The vehicle
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  Speaker 1: was taken out of park, and let's go down the line.
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  Speaker 1: He says, the vehicle was taken out of park and
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  Speaker 1: put back into park. Now, how can you Brian dhar
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  Speaker 1: look at data coming from the vehicle and tell me
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  Speaker 1: exactly the second that the car was taken out of
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  Speaker 1: park and put back into park. Well, the system within
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  Speaker 1: the car each manufacturer different, so each manufacturer records different things,
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  Speaker 1: but it dates and time stamps it, so that's why
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  Speaker 1: it's recording it down to it's relative to the clock
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  Speaker 1: in the vehicle. It's amazing to me that all of
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  Speaker 1: this is kind of like a black box on an airplane,
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  Speaker 1: so they can even tell us And let me go
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  Speaker 1: to you, Joshua Ritter, criminal defense attorneys, partner at Worksman
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  Speaker 1: Jackson and Quinn, former La County Deputy District attorney. Thanks
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  Speaker 1: for being with us, Joshua. I mean this is like,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I know you're a defense attorney, so I don't take
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  Speaker 1: this the wrong way, which means it's going to be
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: really bad whatever I'm about to say about defense attorneys, Joshua,
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  Speaker 1: this is a defense lawyer's worst nightmare because Alex Murdock
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  Speaker 1: has given this alibi that he wasn't there at the
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: scene of the double murders, and here you've got somebody
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  Speaker 1: like Brian Darr saying, well, he cranked up his car
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  Speaker 1: at nine oh six point five zero there was an
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  Speaker 1: engine running event translation, he turned his car on. What
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  Speaker 1: do you do with that? As a defense lawyer, Joshua Well,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: jerrys love this type of stuff. You're absolutely right. It
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  Speaker 1: begins to recreate them for them. They begins to become
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  Speaker 1: alive for them. What took place that evening and minute
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  Speaker 1: by minute. It's pretty incredible how they can get it
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  Speaker 1: down to the exact minute and second of what he
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  Speaker 1: was doing and when and start to reconstruct this. And
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. If that cuts against his alibi, they
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  Speaker 1: got big problems. But the thing I'll point out is
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  Speaker 1: what you've noticed, and what I notice is I think
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  Speaker 1: I understand this stuff pretty well, but I'm still a
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  Speaker 1: little bit lost, and I'm a little bit confused, and
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: confusion plates right into the defense hand. And if they
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  Speaker 1: can cause some confusion in the jurors minds that they
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  Speaker 1: don't quite understand what this evidence is telling them. Is
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  Speaker 1: he turning on his car? Is he moving his car?
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  Speaker 1: What does that mean to have his engine turn on?
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  Speaker 1: If that causes any kind of doubt enough that it
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  Speaker 1: rises to the level that they don't know what to believe,
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  Speaker 1: that could play into the defense hand. I don't like
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  Speaker 1: anything that you're saying ridder. But you're right because if
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: all of us were Let's say, you've got on our
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: panel right now, you've got a doctor on a medical exam,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: You've got an Emerson, a reporter, you've got Mike King
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  Speaker 1: and police commander, you've got Joshua Ritterer. If all of
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: us don't quite know what was said on the stand,
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  Speaker 1: the jury's not going to get it either. But then
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: he tries to the prosecutor re ask the question how
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  Speaker 1: much time between the vehicle taking out a park and
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  Speaker 1: putting back in park sixteen minutes and that's when the
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  Speaker 1: vehicle was in part Yes, and when the vehicle goes
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  Speaker 1: out of park twenty one minutes. And I guarantee you
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  Speaker 1: there's going to be a big chart Joshua Ritter, and
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  Speaker 1: it's going to explain it in understandable terms what this means. Guys.
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  Speaker 1: I want to hear that sound one more time, Christine,
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  Speaker 1: do you mind playing it one more time now that
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  Speaker 1: we've got a little understanding based on what Brian Darr
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  Speaker 1: told us, starting at nine and then into nine oh
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  Speaker 1: six fifty pm, so at that point it actually has
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  Speaker 1: an engine running event, so the car has been turned on. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: so nine oh six fifty pm, the vehicle is put
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  Speaker 1: taken out of park and then let's go down the
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  Speaker 1: line nineteen o four one nine zero four was the
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  Speaker 1: next event where the vehicle went back into park at
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  Speaker 1: nine twenty two and forty five seconds? In your opinion,
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  Speaker 1: could the vehicle been moving between those two times as
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: it could have? I have no evidence of that. Roughly,
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  Speaker 1: how much time passes between the vehicle taking out of
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  Speaker 1: park at line sixteen seventy two and put back in
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  Speaker 1: a park at line nineteen o four approximately sixteen minutes
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  Speaker 1: at nine twenty two forty five pm. And that's the
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  Speaker 1: line nineteen o four. That's when the vehicle has been
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  Speaker 1: placed in a park. Correct, that's correct. Nine forty three
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  Speaker 1: oh five the vehicle is now back out of park. Correct,
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  Speaker 1: that's correct. Roughly how much time passes between those two events?
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  Speaker 1: Approximately twenty one minutes. Well, look, I don't have the
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: background that Brian Dharr has with tire expert dot com,
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  Speaker 1: but I can tell you what that means straight out
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: to Mike King, former police commander, host of profiling evil
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  Speaker 1: on YouTube author, I've deceived an investigative memoir of the
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  Speaker 1: Zion Society cult. Oh, I got to read that, an
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: investigative memoir of the Zion Society cult, because you know,
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  Speaker 1: I don't get to talk about murder enough all day long.
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  Speaker 1: I want to read about it at night. Mike King,
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  Speaker 1: I can tell you. And I sure don't know about
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  Speaker 1: break systems and nav systems like Brian dhar does. But
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  Speaker 1: he drove for sixteen minutes to his mother's house. The
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  Speaker 1: car was in park, the car was turned on, it
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  Speaker 1: was in park, It came out of park sixteen minutes later,
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  Speaker 1: it went back into park, twenty one minutes later, it
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  Speaker 1: came out of park, and he was at his mother's
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  Speaker 1: house twenty one minutes. That's the way I'm interpreting it.
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  Speaker 1: Does that make sense to you, Mike King? It absolutely does, Nancy.
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  Speaker 1: And the thing that I'm so intrigued by this, I'm
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  Speaker 1: so glad Brian's on because I don't understand navigation systems,
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  Speaker 1: but I understand geography and I understand data, and the
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  Speaker 1: data is telling us that there's a period of time
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  Speaker 1: that when you map this out on a map and
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: you look at those rural roads in that system that
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  Speaker 1: would take him from point A to point B if
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  Speaker 1: in fact, he really did show up there. The time
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  Speaker 1: fits the story, and this is where I think the
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  Speaker 1: prosecution needs to maybe simplify the message to the jury.
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  Speaker 1: And I hope I love the idea you had about
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  Speaker 1: possibly getting this on a map and showing him and
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  Speaker 1: simplifying it that, Hey, during this sixteen minute period of time,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: look how far he could have traveled. Yes, he could
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: have traveled to the location of those homicides. Yes he
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  Speaker 1: could have made it to his parents home and after
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  Speaker 1: the homicides. If all the theories are correct that the
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  Speaker 1: prosecution's laid out, including the theory of stopping long enough
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  Speaker 1: to displace a telephone twenty one minutes going back isn't
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  Speaker 1: out of line either, And the going in and out
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  Speaker 1: of park doesn't bug me too much because to me,
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  Speaker 1: that talks to the disorganization once this thing has happened,
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  Speaker 1: of what am I gonna do? Am I going into
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  Speaker 1: park out of park? In those seconds that we're playing
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  Speaker 1: back and forth. I think it's a really powerful testimony.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Today time stories with Nancy Grace. I'm cross referencing right
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: now with the Ultimate Guide to the Evidence, which is
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: my little trial note, but where I'm writing everything down
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  Speaker 1: and hey, Christine, can you flip through? And said, if
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: you could flip through, what was the time that Murdog
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  Speaker 1: called nine one one? In my head, I've got ten
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  Speaker 1: h six, but I want to make sure of that
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  Speaker 1: because I'm not seeing it in my notes. I know
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  Speaker 1: that at nine fifty eight, text comes in from the
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: friend Paul Rogan that was never answered, but I need
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  Speaker 1: to know when that phone call was made. And I'm sorry, yes,
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  Speaker 1: did you say nine oh six? Is she saying nine
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  Speaker 1: or ten? Ten oh six? Ten or six? Thanks Christine.
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  Speaker 1: And with that in mind, and you know that the
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: last text that Maggie read was at eight forty nine.
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  Speaker 1: She actively read that text and then everything goes dead
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: at eight forty nine thirty five. She read the text
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: at eight forty nine twenty seven, Christine, could you put
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the car movements up there again? That was brilliant the
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: way that you broke that down, because that's exactly what
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: the jury is gonna want to see so they can
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  Speaker 1: understand nine oh three, he turns his car on whoa whoa,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: whoa whoa. Wait, leave it right there, nine oh three,
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  Speaker 1: because we believe the shootings and murders the carb at
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  Speaker 1: eight forty nine. At nine three, he's still at the house.
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  Speaker 1: He is still at the murder scene. The way I'm
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: reading this is suv boots up cars running nine oh six.
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  Speaker 1: I wonder what he was sitting there in the car thinking, Oh,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven. Nine oh six. He pulls out
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  Speaker 1: and there he goes. Can I see the next one, Christine?
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  Speaker 1: Nine oh six. He pulls out, takes it out of
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  Speaker 1: park nine twenty two. He's made it to his mother's home.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: He parks nine forty three. He goes out of park
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  Speaker 1: nine forty three, it goes back into park nine forty four.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: He's leaving his mother's house. He takes it out of park.
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  Speaker 1: All right, let's see what happens then. So between forty
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  Speaker 1: four he gets back to Mozelle. At ten pm, the
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: car goes into park and I don't know what he's
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: doing right there, going in and out, in and out
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  Speaker 1: multiple times. At ten oh one, do you have another graph?
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  Speaker 1: Are you leaving it right there? Chris? Scene? Is there?
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Another car goes into park at ten oh one, Oh,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you've got some more for me? Oh my goodness. He's
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: going in and out and in and out of park.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: But Somewhere in that time he calls ten oh six,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: he calls nine one one. Now that's interesting because can
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: you reverse, at Christine, exactly what you did not think
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you to do to reverse
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: the graph? Okay, look at this. So when does he
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: even have time to go find the bodies? Because Mozille
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: is huge, it's what seventeen hundred acres. So he gets
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: there at ten pm, he's still going in and out
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: of park in his car ten oh one, ten oh one,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: ten oh one, ten o one. Then at ten o
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: four he's still going in and out of park, and
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: at ten o six he calls nine one one. Did
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: he even go to the kennel? Look at that he's
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: screwed around in his car. Did he even go and
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: look at the bodies? Because ten oh six is the
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: time the nine one one call comes in. You know what,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Mike King, former police command or host of Profiling Evil
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: on YouTube, don't you just love modern technology? Oh it's
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: fantastic in these kinds of investigations, And as you apply
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the behavioral science to it, you really start seeing this disorganization.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm with you, I wonder if he even got
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: out of the car and headed over there before that
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: if in fact he returns to that location. But I
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: can just see in his mind him putting that thing
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: back in gear and out, like what on Earth am
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I going to do? And the reality of what's happening
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: is starting unfold in front of him. He just gave
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: me an idea. I had a viewer right in on
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: social I wonder if Maggie had a fitbit or if
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Murdog had a fitbit that would show us anything I'm
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: hearing in my ear. Ann Emerson is joining us WCIV.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: But I want to go back to Brian darr And
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: we've been talking to a senior forensic engineer and tire expert.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: At is the name of your business, US Forensic or
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: what's the name of your business? Brian, It's US Forensic,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: that's my employer, and I can find you at tire
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: expert dot com. Okay, gotcha, Brian? What else? What all
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: can forensics experts learn from your vehicle? You can there's
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: quite a bit of information you can learn. The uh
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: they have airbag modules that record your speed, you know, say,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: if you're in that collision. The infotainment system that's been
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: discussed at hand as a wealth of knowledge that can
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: be obtained from the vehicle. This is amazing to me.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I'm looking now inside of murders Chevy. Look at that.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It's it's a really big vehicle, and you're looking right
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: at the nav system. So I guess, Brian darv it's
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: got the nav system. I think it's Scott. We're going
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: to be able to tell exactly where he travels that evening,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: at what time? Correct? Correct? Wow? Okay. Ann Emerson has
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: just made her way out of the courthouse thankfully today,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: not because of a bomb threat, but for a lunch break.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: An Emerson is joining us. She has an award winning
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: daily podcast, Unsolved South Carolina The Murderdog, Murders, Money and Mystery,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: which is awesome. And I've really learned a lot from
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: your podcast, by the way, and we're just going through
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: everything that we can deduce from the one witness on
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the stand, Dwight Falkowski, about the movements of Murdog's car
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: his suv. It's amazing, It is amazing, and Nancy, I
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: love the way that y'all are taking a part right
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: at the end too. I'm learning something from what y'all
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: are talking about as well. Because as you've said, we
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: haven't gotten that visual representation of what this timeline looks
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: like except for the work that we're doing ourselves right now.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: We're all doing the same thing as journalists, trying to
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: piece together this timeline that is very specific off of
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: this this on Star car information. You know, it's amazing,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: as you said, what technology can do, and just coming
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: up with what you were just talking about that that
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: very very narrow time period of when that car return
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: to Mozelle and and you know when it stopped, I
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: mean that is very important, and when that nine one
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: one call was placed. Now, what we're hearing today as
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just coming out of the courtroom, is another layer
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: of this information that we can go into. With the
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: testimony that has now been given by Chris Wilson in
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: court to the jury. We've heard him, and we've heard
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: him in camera without the jury present. We've heard him today.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: This is his best friend, This is Alec Murdoch's best friend,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: has worked with him for years and years personally and professionally,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: and he adds to this timeline as well. So we've
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: got a whole another set of numbers we got to
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: deal with. Now, Yeah, you know what I was trying
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to do in court when everything was happen, you know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: pouring from the witness stand, was taking notes, and when
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: we were doing the cell phone data a couple of
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: days ago, it was right down to the second. At
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: eight forty nine twenty seven, Maggie reads a text on
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the group thread about mister Randolph Murdoch's father at eight
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: forty nine thirty five, the friend Rogie Rogan Gibson wrote,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: but it was never read. And that's where I'm getting
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: the time of the murders between eight forty nine twenty
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: seven and eight forty nine thirty five. And now we've
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: got this overlay of the car data where Murdog is
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: in his car fumbling around at nine oh six, so
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: that's sixteen minutes later. He's already. We know he's there
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: because we saw the snapchat video. We know he's there
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: in the kennels. He's made his way all around from
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the kennels to where his vehicle is part. Oh, Christine,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: could you give me an aerial of Mozelle, Because when
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: many of us think about dashing out and getting into
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: our minivan or a car, it's just a few steps.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: But not so with Moselle. It's oh wow, Okay, there
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: it is. The cars are parked off to the left,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: and you've got the kennels. It's huge. It's a huge property.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: So you've got to get from the kennels where the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: bodies were all the way to your vehicle by foot,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: so you've got eight basically eight fifty. And then he's
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: in the car cranking up at nine oh six. But
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: yet he says he wasn't there when the murders occurred.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I've got so much more data evidence, but
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I want to go straight to what and Emerson from
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: WCIV just brought up because she's right, it was riveting.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: It's the only you couldn't take your eyes off this
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: witness testifying. It's Chris Wilson in our cut ten. Listen
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: to this. We were standing around in the driveway talking
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: and I think it was Lee Co, Mark Ball. I
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: don't remember if Ronnie Crosby was in that conversation. A
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: couple other people, and there was some discussion about lex
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: interaction with Sled, and the discussion that was had was, look,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: he probably doesn't need to interact with Sled without buy himself,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: because I don't know what state of mind he's in
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: and don't know what the circumstances are, But he also
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: doesn't need seven or eight lawyers trying to ask him
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: or deal with him. I made it very clear that
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I wanted to be his friend and not his lawyer,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and that I didn't feel comfortable without um and um
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that one person needed to be for lack of a
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: better term, the point person, he was destroyed, He was upset,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and I don't know whether he need, whether he was
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: able to talk with SLED at that point in time
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: by himself or not, but I knew that that's not
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: something that somebody should do. Why did his best friend
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: not want him to speak to SLED? South Carolina Law
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Enforcement Division? Why? Because, you know, Ann Emerson, if someone
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: in my family, god forbid, had been murdered, I'd want
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: to find out who who murdered my husband, who murdered
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: my child, And no matter how upset I would be,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I would want that person caught and brought to justice.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: So why would Chris Wilson not want his best friend
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Murdoch to speak to SLED. Well, he didn't say that
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: he didn't want to speak to us, that he didn't
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: want him to speak to sled without an attorney president,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: and he didn't want to be the attorney president. From
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: that's the way I kind of read what he was saying,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: But there was there's a lot underneath. There's it's it's
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: one of those optics that are coming across that all
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: of his friends were lawyers. All of them that were
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: there that were his close friends that we've been hearing
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: about in this testimony were also lawyers. So they were
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out, Okay, who's going to deal with
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: this basically, and from what we could gather, this was
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: not something that Chris Wilson was prepared to do. For
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, he was not going to get into the
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: middle of this. So I think that that he was
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: also concerned. I don't know why, and we haven't heard
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: all of it yet, but you know, Chris Wilson was
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: obviously very concerned because he was in His friend Alec
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Murdoch was in such terrible shape that night when he
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: was talking to Chris. There was no way he was
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: going to get a story out that was that was
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: going to be of any benefit. So I think that's
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: where they were going with it from there. But you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: really I thought the prosecution, Nancy setting up the whole
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: backstory with Chris Wilson, and they really went through it.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, this was hours of testimony this morning that
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: he was on the stand, really setting up this relationship
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: and how he trusted him implicitly. There was no there
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: was no question that Alec Murdoch was in his mind
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: a good guy and would do the right thing every time.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: It was incredible to hear how this all took us
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: all the way through these double murders. And of course,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter, when you have a faithful and loyal best
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: friend on the stand, the first line of cross examination
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: is you knew him so well, but I bet you
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: didn't know that he had an opioid problem, did you?
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I bet you didn't know that he had outrightd stolen
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: about eight million dollars from his clients and his law firm.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Did you know that? Did you know he persuaded someone
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: to shoot him in the head to try to get
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: insurance benefits? Youne him so well, but you didn't know that,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: did you? As exactly where the cross can go. I mean,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: this has turned itself into a character trial, which is
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: kind of unfortunate, I think for the prosecution they may
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: have gotten a little too cute by half by trying
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: to introduce all of that financial crimes evidence, because they've
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: really turned it into a character trial. And now it's
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: going to come down to a question for jurors, partially
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: at least it does he have the motive to do
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: this based upon his character, based upon all the evidence
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: we've heard about him before, now the troubles that he
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: was dealing with, but also being such a good person.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Do we believe this is the type of person to
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: commit this crime? And I don't know if that is
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the direction the prosecution intended when they first started out
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: on this trial. Mister Ritter, you are familiar with motive evidence,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: evidence that under some circumstances would be disallowed because it
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: touches on one's prior reputation or past bad acts, typically
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: disallowed at trial unless it proves motive, course of conduct,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: frame of mind. True. Yes, No, isn't that true? Absolutely? Yeah? Okay,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: so it can't come in a bad act, can come
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: into show motive, frame of mind, course of conduct intent, yes? Yes.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: But I think where the prosecution may have some trouble
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: here is what is that motive I'm having trouble connecting
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: the dots of he was in a bunch of financial trouble.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: He had some drug problems and therefore that caused him
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to kill his wife and child. Where is the benefit
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: to his life by ending their life? I can tell
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: you that. I can tell you that Joshua, and I
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: don't know that the prosecution is going to say this plainly,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: but as another lawyer said, and I'm quoting him problem solving.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: He had a massive, multimillion dollar lawsuit file against his
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: family because of his son, now murdered, was drunk as
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a scott and high as a kite on a boat
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and a beautiful young girl, Mallory Beach goes spinning off
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the boat to her death. That lawsuit. Guess what. After
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Paul's murder, that suit was settled. Maggie reportedly was seeking
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: out a divorce lawyer, which would also call in a
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: forensic account and all of his stealing, lying and bazzling
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: would come to light. So now there's now there's no
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: more divorce. Yes, please jump in, Nancy. There's something that
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: we have to talk about too, is the testimony that
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: we've already heard that has to go in front of
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: the jury. Still of some of the victims of these
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: alleged financial crimes. I'm using the word allegedly still, even
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: though Chris Wilson was talking about how he was hearing
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Alec tell him that he had stolen money. So we're
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: now getting those kind of witness accounts to what Alec
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Murdoch has said, Nancy, the testimony that we are going
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: to hear if they if they come in of Tony Satterfield,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: this young man who lost his mother and then um
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Alec has already done admitted to owing money, that he
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: stole four point three million dollars from these kids from
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: an insurance settlement that he helped manufacturer. Not only that,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: but you know who I saw and I don't know
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: if you know this name right off the top, but
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Elena Pliler. I just saw her walk into the back
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: into the witness area of the courtroom. This is another
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: young woman who was completely taken to the cleaners at
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: times by the financial manipulation. So these are what they
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: what the prosecution is doing is setting up this if
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: they are looking at character, let's look at the character
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: of how these crimes were committed and in the state
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: of mind of the defendant during that period that he
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: could completely divorced himself from all of what was going
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: on in the world, like in order to go on
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: a holiday or pay a credit card off. We're talking
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: about ninety nine alleged financial crimes right now that he's
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: facing for money laundering, financial fraud. These are as, as
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: my legal analyst Charlie Connon, who's a former attorney general
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: who I've been working with on this case as well
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and talking to quite a bit, he said, these are
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: white collar crimes that have just turned red blood. They
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: are red blood color crime. That is what the prosecution
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: is trying to set up. And he was definitely going
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: to be disbarred, ruining his family's reputation, the father, the grandfather,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: the great grandfather, judges, prosecutors, lawyers until screeching halt with
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Alex murdog Aside from that, and I hear you, Ritter,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: I hear you loud and clear, how is are the
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: financial crimes motive for murder? But I think the prosecutor
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: is going to lay it out the way Anne Emerson did.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: But I want to circle back to something that you
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: can't argue with, and that is hard, cold data. It's
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: my understanding and Emerson that it took an expert about
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: a year to put together this car evidence that we're
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: hearing today. It was a year. Yeah, absolutely, you're right, Nancy.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: It tookome a year to get into this to unlock
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: the system. They literally said they had to reverse engineer
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the entire infotainment system in order to start pulling this
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: information out, and they still weren't able to get it
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: all from what they were what we gather so far.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: But what they did get were these stops and starts
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: with the car, which were so interesting within this timeline.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: But you know, Nancy, and this is something else that
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: we're sort of deducing from what we're hearing now, and
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: we were talking about this amongst ourselves a little bit,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: is that the this timeline of when we actually heard
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: about an arrangement for these murder charges, for the double
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: murder charges, we all down here we're wondering, why is
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: it taking so long for the prosecution, because we've been
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: hearing rumors forever that they were going to be going
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: after Alec Murdock. Now we know it's gonna be a
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: year to unlock this system of navigation. It took them
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: how long? Nine months after the murders to unlock Paul's phone.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: We know how important that dog video and audio is.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Now with the defendants what several witnesses have already said
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: as the defendant's voice. Let me circle back to Brian Dahar,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: senior forensic engineer and tire expert with tire expert dot com.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I'm curious as to how you became a forensic engineer,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: but that is for another day. Brian Dahar, I heard
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: that it took about a year to unlock all of
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: the data we're getting from Alex Murdog's suburban, and it's
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of data. I can tell every time he
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: turned the car on, when he put it in park,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: when he took it out of park. The NAW system
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: can probably tell me where he went, what time he
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: got there, what time he got back in the car
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and drove again. Why would it take a year? Did
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: you hear her and Emerson state it took about a
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: year to reverse engineer the infotainment system. What does that mean?
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: What it means to me is that the data was
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: somehow encrypted and that they had to go in basically
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: line by line, maybe right an algorithm to understand the
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: data that's there and quote unquote reverse engineering. Okay, when
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: you said encrypt and unencrypted, Now I understand why it
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: took them a year, you know, Mike King joined me,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: former police commander, host of Profiling Evil on YouTube and author, Mike.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: You know, we hear it all the time when members
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: of the public, and I agree with them as well,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: saying why is there an arrest? We know phill in
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: the blank did it? Why is it he behind bars?
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Now we see why, because it took a year to
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: crack this encrypted code on Murdoch's suburban. They had to
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: crack the code on Paul's cell phone, a lot of
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: technical data. How to police handle it when the public is,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: you know, running at them with pitchforks and torches and spikes.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: We want justice. How do you handle that? Yeah, it's
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of pressure that's placed on investigators and frankly
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: the administrations to move the case along faster. But I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: think you set up before, Nancy. I've heard it many times.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: You really only get one dip at the well when
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: you take this thing to trial. So you gotta have
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: all these pieces and parts lined up, and you got
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: to have him ready to go in a way that
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the jury can understand them, because all it takes is
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: a couple of people in some places one and many
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: to say I just don't buy it. And I love
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: analyzing all the data we're hearing. First of all, I'm
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: hearing from a courthouse source right now that Eddie cousin
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Curtis Edward Smith is in the courthouse. Could he testify
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: this afternoon that Murdog was saying intently listening to the
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: car testimony as if he were learning something new. Now,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: at least he's not chewing on something and eating. I
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: got flooded with social media questions about what is he eating?
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Why is he eating right in front of the jury,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: And you can hear their stomach is growling and Murdog
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: is eating at the table. Guys, we're trying to overlay
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: what we know about the car data, which shows that
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: he didn't leave Mozelle until about nine oh six, went
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to his mother's, turned right around and came back. He
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: was only visiting his mother twenty one minutes. Okay, but
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: now an overlay of Maggie's phone activity, and this is significant.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut three. Well, first call
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: from Alex, what are the times for the call? That's
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: associated with Wines eleven to twelve. There at the same time.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: It is six seven, twenty twenty one at nine oh
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: four twenty three pm. It has the name of Alex
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: direction shows incoming and it shows that it was a
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: miss call received on sixty seven, twenty twenty one at
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: nine oh six fifty one pm, nine eight fifty eight
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: PM from the phone number one three nine four two
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: one two two seven Alex to Maggie Murdoch. What does
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: that text say? It says, going to check on him,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: be right back the last part Alex heard at ninety
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: six fifty one correct. Yes, Yeah, the text came from
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Alex at nine week fifty eight correct. Yes, That entry
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: is at nine forty seven twenty three pm. And what
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: is that It is a text message that was received
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: on that from Alex says call me babe. It was
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: that text ever read? I know that's referencing the previous report.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Nest of that text is not read. Well, it wasn't
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: read because Maggie's already dead and I believe, like the prosecution,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: that she was dead when Murdoch pulled out of the house,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: out of Moselle to an Emerson, I want to overlay
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: what we just heard two the car starting and stopping,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: going in and out of park. Christine, do you mind
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: putting up those entries one more time, because we've got
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: murdog at nine o four twenty three, and this is
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Maggie's fine. We're looking at an incoming call from Murdock
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: at nine oh four. Now we know he's cranking his car.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: The car is running, and the car is taken out
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: of park at nine oh six fifty right at nine
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: o seven. Then we have a text to him, I'm
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: gonna go check on m which is mom, I guess
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: be right back, and that is at nine o eight
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I believe. Can we advance the chart? So at nine
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: oh eight he's texting all right, that means he is
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: en route. He's driving at that time, because the car
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: goes back in park at nine twenty two, And now
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: we've got him texting at nine oh eight. All this
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: time he's saying back and forth with Maggie. Of course
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: they're unread because she's dead. There's another entry at nine
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: four seven where he writes, call me babe, what does
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: this mean to you? And Emerson as you overlay the
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: evidence on top of each other to create a timeline. Well,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: we are down to seconds, aren't we. I mean, we're
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: down to seconds and minutes, you know, And that is far, far,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: far away from where we were just just a couple
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: of weeks ago. We had no idea that the prosecution
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: had really narrowed this down so hard with these with technology,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: as you were saying, we got a whole nother layer
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: of it today, if from Chris Wilson as well, because
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: of course Chris Wilson was one of the people that
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: he called when he was in that car, and they
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: knew that through Verizon records, and they know that through
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: through his phone. They say that he talks about a
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: convert station he had with him at eleven nine eleven
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: PM as well, and that they talked again at nine twenty.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: He said nine to eleven he had to call him back.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: At nine twenty we heard that he had just gotten
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: to his mom's house. So this absolutely is starting to
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: line up. They are going to give us a blow
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: by blow description from the state of exactly where Alec
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Murdoch was. What they're saying is we know where you
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: were the whole time, We know when these phones stopped,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: and we know how these people use their phones. These
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: people were not, including himself, were people that use their
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: phones all the time, all the time. So Chris Wilson
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: is actually one of the people that Murdoch is calling
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: that night. Many would argue to establish his alibi. I
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: want you to hear about Chris Wilson, Murdoch's best friend,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: talking about calls for Murdoch the night of the murders.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Take a listen hour cut seven. Does that reflect calls
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: from Eli Murdoch on the night of June seventh, twenty
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: twenty one, Yes, sir, he said, Hey, you know, Habo
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: is normally how he would greet you, Haybo. Did you
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: sound normal to you? Sounded normal, yes, sir. So you said, Hey,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: I'm busy right now, let me call you back. What
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: did he say? He said, that's fine nine to eleven pm.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: In coming from his cell phone, called Elok back nine
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: twenty pm. I generally say Heybo two and uh, you know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Heybo calling you back us. He said, Hey, I'm about
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: to get into my mom's house. Can we talk a
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: little bit later? I told him sure. Um that's from
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Elok to me at nine fifty two on June the seventh,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: says called me if you up, picked up the phone
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: and gave him a call. Said, hey, I like I
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: got your text calling you back. Has your mama? He said, um,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: you know she's you know, doing about like normal. I think,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I mean she'd been doing poorly for years. And he said,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I'm about to get back home. Can we can we
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: talk tomorrow. Pretty shortly after that, I went on the bed. So,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: if the state is correct, Joshua ridd Or, criminal defense
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: attorney joining us out of LA. If the state is
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: correct in their allegations that murdog murdered his wife and son,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: he is able to act perfectly normal on the phone
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: with his best friend. Yeah, that's that's hugely impactful evidence
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: for the defense and something I'm sure they're going to
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: draw home that. Listen, you're saying that a man, by
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: the way, didn't just commit your everyday type of murder here,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: murdered his wife and child and it's cool as cool
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: as a cucumber on the phone with his best friend,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't have a hint that anything is wrong. That's that's
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: powerful evidence for the defense. I don't care how you
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: cut it, and I think it's certainly something they're going
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: to remind yours of when they get into closing argument
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: that listen, a lot of this doesn't line up with
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: the prosecution's theory of what was taking place in when well,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: I think it lines up exactly with what the prosecution
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: says the calls they data from the car that our
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: new friend Brian darr is explaining to us at office
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: together but doesn't fit together to me, is that he
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: is so calm when he calls his friend knowing he
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: just killed his wife and son. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: you know, when you think it through to Mike King,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: very often you see defendants act really calm after a murder.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you remember Scott Peterson, Do you remember
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Drew Peterson? I mean, so many there calm. As a
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: nun I remember sitting with professors at Harvard University talking
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: about this transitional thing and people finally make a decision,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: there's a sense of calmness that comes. Even completing something
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: like this might bring that calmness. And yet I think
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: still when you look at some of the other evidence,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: especially the move in the vehicle in and out of
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: park so many times, Nancy, I've said it a couple
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: of times, I think that is so indicative of the
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: disorganization that's starting to happen as the reality of what
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: he's gone through, as the adrenaline starts to drain off,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: those kinds of things are going to play. And I
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: hope as this thing goes forward and as we start
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: looking at cellular location and other things in the case.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Now joining me a renowned expert doctorate, Michelle Duprie. Now
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: not only is she a pathologist and a medical examiner,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: she's also a former detective. And let me tout one
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: more thing. She is the author of the Homicide Investigation
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Field Guide. Now, Dupree, no aspersions to be cast on
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: the rest of our guests, but I was saving the
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: best for last. That's you, medical examiner, pathologist, detective. Now
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: that you've heard some of the technical data as explained
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: by Brian Daharr, the argument by Joshua Ritter, and our
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: former police commander Mike King, the facts from Anne Emerson,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: what do you make of it? When Nancy, I think
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: this is very interesting. I think that a lot of
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: these things are what we call forensic countermeasures, which is
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Alex trying to diffuse the situation, trying to cast doubt
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: on him and refer that to someone else. Remember, early
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: on in the investigation, he offered a reward one hundred
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars to find the killer of his wife and child.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Yet he put a time limit on it. Who does that? Also,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: he was very cool, I think, and rather calculating. The
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: night of the interview, he's sitting in in the car
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: being interviewed by the officer and he's almost thinking about
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: everything that he's saying before he says it. To me,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: That's just another indication of how cool this person can
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: be under such duress. I do think that the movement
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: of the car back and forth in and out of park,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: he was starting to unravel. I mean, this has to
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: be a horrific scene, you know, horrific emotions even after
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: he has done this, allegedly done this. No, doctor Michelle Dupree,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: you just reminded me about that time limit on the reward.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: He gave a hundred thousand dollars reward if you can
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: solve this murder an x number of weeks and months.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: I remember that, which I recall we discussed at the
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: time that it was very odd. Could you explain exactly
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: what you mean by a forensic countermeasure? Doctor Sure, a
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: forensic countermeasure is something that usually the perpetrator will do.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: It's almost like staging the crime. I'm saying, it's something
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: to throw off the investigation, to make people look in
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: other directions rather than at the perpetrator. So Ann Emerson,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: She's right. I recall when Murdo put out the reward
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: and he put a time limit on it. Do you
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: remember that that time so much was happening during September
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: as well, of course, because that was when we had
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: the bog assisted suicide attempt that was also going on,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: so so already that world was starting to unravel for sure,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: But also don't you know, it reminds me also of
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: the shotgun that that he was carrying, if you kind
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: of follow doctor Dupree's line of thinking, that shotgun that
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: he had in his hands when the cops got to
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: him the night of the murders. That was very that
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: was that was very well thought out from the stains perspective,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: because of course that would explain gunshot residue and some
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: of the things that were going on when they were
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: testing him. Guys on the stand today, Murdog's best friend. Now,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear where he's coming from. And
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: you have to understand his relationship to murdog so you
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: can carefully evaluate his testimony. Take a listen to best
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: friend Chris Wilson on the stand in Our Cut six.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: One of your best friends, Yes, sir, very much, not
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: just my best friend, most of wars. I mean our family,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: were clothes, I mean our kids, our wives. I'm close yet.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Frendship with Maggie two, yes, Sir Graham. Friendship with Paul too. Yes, Sir,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: got French hip with Buster two. Yes, sir, haven't been
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: able to have that sense, not like it was. But yes, sir,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: hope to one day, sir, And more about when he
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: finds out about the murders. Take a listen. I were
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: cut eight, Pat find out I was asleep. My wife
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: comes in kind of his you know, just hysterical. Um,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: she says, you gotta wake up, you gotta wake up.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I don't remember if she was on the phone with
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: m Randy's wife or Randy. My wife is telling me
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: what's going on. I just told her. I said, Um,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: I gotta I'll get some clothes. I gotta go to Moselle.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Did you get to mosell about one o'clock in the morning.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I knew at that point that
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: that that this had occurred at the Kennel's, but I
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: could see that there was tons of activity there. I
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: think John, Marvin and Randy were walking out. Um and
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: kind of waved off and said go to the house.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: He was yes, sir, Yeah, I did. Hugged his nag
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: and crying. There were a lot of the lawyers that
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: he practices law with, several family members, you know, some
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: friends of his that I knew. Um, there were a
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: lot of people already in the house. Okay, a lot
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: of people may find that odd. Mike King joining me
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: form a police commander oster profiling evil on YouTube. Mike King,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: how many times have you walked into a double murder
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: scene and the place is crawling with lawyers? I don't
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: think I could remember a time that that happened. But
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that they said, yeah, we're
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: going to encourage him not to talk to police, yet
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: he still did. Yeah. I find that very odd. Why
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: would you encourage someone when their wife and son had
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: been brutally murdered, shot multiple times, Maggie was riddled with bullets.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Why would you not want them to talk to police exactly.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: And you know, it really makes me wonder that if
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: it's an arrogance thing knowing what he probably should do
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: from a legal standpoint, getting that counsel from other lawyers
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: in the room, deciding he's going to do it anyway.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Is it an arrogance that he thinks he can talk
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: his way through it, or is it that he actually
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: is innocent? But it makes me really wonder if this
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: guy is going to have the arrogance to go in
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: them try to testify in this case. Oh my goodness,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter, do you think Murdock would actually take the stand?
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: No way, I don't think so. I think his attorneys
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: would sit on his chest before they allowed that to happen.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: But listen, I've been listening to all of this, and
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the idea about these forensic countermeasures and everything else.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: So what we have here is either a person who's
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: so diabolical that they've planned this all out, or a
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: person who's innocent. Right is what his defense is going
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: to argue. And if that person truly believes that they're innocent,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: you might not be able to keep him from the stand.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: And if he truly is as diabolical is We're all
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: see me to think maybe that's the same kind of
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: person you can't keep from the stand. So nothing in
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: this case would cease to shock me at this point
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: An Emerson, I can't agree with him more. Keep getting
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: texts from the courthouse that Curtis Eddie Smith akaa cousin
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Eddie is in the courthouse now in that jurisdiction. Is
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: the jail below the court? Is there a jail in
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: the courthouse a holding sale literally, like you know where
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: the courthouse is is right behind me if you just
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: go a little bit further down the hill and I've
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: done the run. I have done the run to get
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: you know, some of the defendants in different cases from
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Colleton County, to get pictures of them coming out of
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: that sort of sally port in the back. So really
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: it's it's less than a five minute drive. If you
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: literally are just getting him into the car and driving
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: him down there, it's it's to run. I think I've
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: done it about two and a half minutes, so it's
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: right there, and you know, this is the Colleton County
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: jail where we actually that. This is the first time
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: I ever saw Curtis Setti Smith, because I was at
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: that sally Port and in the first bond hearing when
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: we heard about the importance of who he is and
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: how he was going to play a role in this,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: and Nancy, I think it's so interesting that you're hearing
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: that from the court right now. I have not gotten
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: that confirmed yet that he's here. I have heard that
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: he's supposed to be coming this week. But but if
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: he is here, it makes sense with what the prosecution
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: was doing. Literally right before we got out of court
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: for lunch, they were taking us up and they're very
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: good at that. They're taking us right up to that
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: point of the roadside chooting. I mean, we are on
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: September fourth, twenty twenty one. Right now. We've just heard
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: from Chris Wilson about his last interaction ever in person
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: with Alec Murdoch. Ever, again, this was the last time
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: he talked to his best friend in the whole wide
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: world was on September fourth, just just before all of
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: this went down. Okay, let's take a listen to that.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: In our cut nine went out on the front porch
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and I looked at him and I said, he look
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure I've said f for h or something.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: I said, what the you know, what the is going on?
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I need to know what's going on because I know
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: about this thing that Lease call me about, and I
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: need to know if there's something else you've done that
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: involves me that I don't know about. That's a problem
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: for me. What is going on? Broke down crying, said,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: I can't talk. Let me, I can't I can't write
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: this second, Chris. He walked inside and grabbed a handful
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: of paper towels and came back out on the porch
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: and said, you know, I'm sorry. I've had a drug problem.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: I've been addicted to opioids for something like twenty years.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: There were parts where it was he didn't parts where
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: it was silent, and parts where it was probably calmer.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: He admitted he had been stealing money, you know, he
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: from his law firm and from clients. Couldn't leave that.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: I didn't know it, never saw it, never suspected it
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: drugs or money. And what did he say? Just said
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: it had been going on for a long time. I
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: was angry. I was I didn't know how to feel,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: which leads me back to what Joshua Ritter, renowned defense
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: attorney from LA was just saying Ann Emerson that his
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: own best friend didn't know anything about the opioid addiction
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: or the embezzling money that's being going on for years,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: twenty years. So what else could Alex Murdoch be capable
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: of that as friends would never suspect murder. Oh, I mean,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I think they're absolutely going to have a problem here, right,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: They've got to now. I mean, the prosecution is setting
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: up that no one knew him. I mean, this is
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: a question that the prosecution is given to several of
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: the closest sort of people around Alec Murdoch. Did you
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: really know him? No? I guess I didn't you know?
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: This is what they keep on saying on the stand.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: So we've been setting up that he's garnered an enormous
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: amount of trust and brotherhood with the people, that he loves,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: his family, everyone. But did we really know him? No?
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Is the answer that we keep on hearing. But the defense,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: of course, is going to be uh, you know, fighting
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: this tooth and nail as they get into it there
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: they are going to be saying, you know, they're going
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: to say that he's as loving of a family that
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: he could ever have in his entire world, and Chris
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Wilson backed that up to doctor Michelle Dupre. How many times,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: Dodgor dupree, have you handled cases that end up in
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: the morgue where no one really knew the defendant. They
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: thought they did, but they would never have suspected a
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: double murder like this, But in fact it was true
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: their parts to people, especially addicted to drugs, that we
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: can never comprehend. We're trying to apply logic to an
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: illogical situation, Dodgor Dupre, exactly, Nancy. And how many times
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: is a significant other, a husband or a wife, the
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: one who actually does kill their loved ones? You know,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: whenever we see these mass shootings or anything horrific like this,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: family and friends almost always say we never saw it coming,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and if they did, certainly they would have
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: alerted somebody or tried to get that person help. But
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: in this case, everyone is saying the same thing, we
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: never suspected it. And what does that even tell us
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: about Alex Murdock. He was very very good at this,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: at hiding things from other people, even those that were
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: close to him. Guys, I'm hearing in my ear everybody
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: is breaking camp and going back into the courthouse. Lunch
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: is over now that they've got to get those garards
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: back into the jury area where they sit. We never
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: see their faces, and I'm sure that they've got a
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: lot of emotions and concerns because of the bomb threat yesterday,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: the unfounded bomb threat. But they're making their way back
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: into the courtroom and so are we. Goodbye, friend, thanks
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: for being with us.