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Episode 7: Face/Off · How Have You Not Seen This?

• Leslye: I told you guys Tuesday, not only did I forget we were doing it, but I was also without any internet for like 48 hours, right? so we come to yesterday night. I'm making dinner. Uh oh And I'm Miriam: The suspense. Leslye: I'm grating some cheese. And I cut a good amount of my thumb off. Like Miriam: no. my gosh. Kate: in a plastic bag. Leslye: Well, it's in a plastic bag so that I can wash my hands. Miriam: my hand finger. Kate: Did you get stitches? Miriam: stitches. Leslye: I refused. I was like, I'm not gonna do this. Miriam: I refused. Leslye: We we waffled back and forth. And then what we realized after it stopped really bleeding bleeding, once it stopped we realized that it wasn't that I needed a stitch, it was that I had actually cut part of my hand off Kate: you cut it off. You grated it off. Yeah. Leslye: cut it off. Like I cut Yeah. Miriam: my gosh Leslye: just so you understand like the mental picture, the grater was not like a regular grater. It was one for like slices of cheese. Miriam: Yeah. no, wait. You're telling Kate: No. This Miriam: this is a mandolin accident? Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: Yes. Okay. Kate: You mandolined Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, honestly, Kate: your finger off. Okay, you're excused from homework assignment. Miriam: Matt always says you have to be careful because it hungers for your fingers. And he's right. It hungers. It hungers for you. I I I Leslye: I see, I see, yeah. Kate: I won't use one ever since Amanda accident with Amanda Miriam. my gosh. Her her wrist, like she Miriam: Yeah, our friend Amanda. She cut she cut herself so badly. Kate: slipped and it cut her Miriam: hungers Leslye: I'm telling you. Kate: ever since that Miriam: for a Kate: I was like, nope, nope. Miriam: Well, of well I feel Leslye: You guys, Like I almost fainted. I was like Kate: I'm sure I believe that. Miriam: like you might have needed stitches That's pretty bad. Kate: there's nothing to stitch. It's like Yeah. But I think they can they can put that stuff on it that stops the bleeding, I think. Leslye: I would have there's nothing to stitch 'cause it's just a full like it's fine. It's it's not that bad. Exactly. Miriam: O Leslye: yeah, we didn't get the stuff. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: but anyway, it's Kate: I trust Rebecca. If Rebecca says you don't need to go. Miriam: I trust Rebecca. Yeah. Leslye: Yeah. She was Miriam: She's Leslye: like, You're fine. She was like, I did find Miriam: the best Yeah. Kate: Yeah. Leslye: part of your thumb on the cheese grater though. Miriam: Gross. Gross. I Leslye: Welcome to How Have You Not Seen This, a podcast about crimes against cinema, where one of the three of us confesses there is an iconic movie we have never seen, and the other two ask the only logical question, How Have You Not Seen This? I'm Leslye Miriam: I'm Miriam. Kate: And I'm Kate. Leslye: The format is simple. There's a confession, an interrogation, atonement, and absolution. At the end of all of this, we'll ask the pivotal question, can we still be friends? We're currently in the middle of our Nick Cage series, or Cage match, if you will, We've decided to watch three films starring the incomparable Nicholas Coppola. This week we're talking about a movie that answers the question. What if you could take your face off? Miriam: Ha ha! Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Leslye: couldn't think of a clever thing to Miriam, what movie have you not seen? Miriam: I have not seen the movie Face/Off Face/Off I have I either think Kate: Ha ha ha. Miriam: it is like a face, because I remember there's a slash in the title. So it's either like Leslye: There is. Miriam: face Kate: Mm-hmm. Miriam: off or it's like face off or face off. Kate: Question mark? Miriam: Yeah. But and I I I know that it is a Nick Cage John Travolta joint. Kate: Mm-hmm. Leslye: A joint, yes, it is. Miriam: it's a joint, but I have never seen it, I regret to say. And I'm a huge fan of Nicolas Cage and sometimes John Travolta. Sometimes. Leslye: that is that's sometimes Kate: Some sometimes. Leslye: on what occasions are you a fan of John Travolta? Miriam: John Travolta, I'm a fan a Pulp Fiction Grease fan, not so much wait, is he? another movie I've never seen. Was he in that movie called? Urban Cowboy, Midnight Cowboy? Saturday Leslye: Saturday Night Fever Miriam: Night Fever! Kate: What about Look Who's Talking? Leslye: inter Kate: I'm surprised I didn't make the list. Miriam: love Look Who's Talking I don't know why. That's a that's a childhood movie that I've watched several times. I don't know why we were allowed to watch it so much, but I loved it. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: And I've seen one and two. Excellent. Leslye: Who were the voices? Kate: Look Who's Talking Now Miriam: Look Who's Talking Now Excellent- I don't know why, but John Travolta and Kirstie Alley had so much chemistry to me. Leslye: remember they did who did the who did the girl voice? 'Cause I know it was Bruce Willis, but then who was the girl? Miriam: Bruce, wasn't Roseanne Arnold a voice? Leslye: maybe she was the girl. Yeah. And look who's talking now. Wow, this is a really great conversation about Face/Off okay. Miriam: Maybe, maybe reel it in, reel it Kate: Ha ha Miriam: in. Leslye: Let's get let's get back on track. Okay, why haven't you seen Face/Off Miriam: I don't know, maybe it looked too scary. Is it a scary movie? Leslye: It could be, yeah. so this good movie came out I think it's nineteen ninety seven. So we would have been Miriam: Mm. Leslye: seventeen, sixteen. It feels like Face/Off if you didn't see it in the theater, which you weren't gonna do because it looked terrifying, apparently. Miriam: I wasn't gonna do. I think Kate: Well also you weren't eighteen yet, so you wouldn't have been Miriam: True. yeah. And I Leslye: Valid. Valid. Kate: Yeah, rated R. Miriam: rated R. Well that is probably why. Leslye: what do you know about this beyond faces come off and Kate: There's a slash in the title. Leslye: there's a slash in the title? Miriam: I so my recollection is one is like a cop and one is a outlaw and then they have to switch bodies. Is it a body body swapping movie? In Kate: Not a face swapping movie? Miriam: Well, a it's a face swapping version of a body swap movie. Right. Leslye: Okay, that's okay. Kate: Okay. Leslye: Okay, yeah. Miriam: It's like a Freaky Friday but with faces movie. That's what I know. If you Leslye: Right. Right. Yeah. I mean Kate: Great tagline for this movie. Leslye: Yeah. I'm not gonna say that's Miriam: love, if you love a body swapping Kate: What? Miriam: movie, you will love a face swapping movie. Leslye: Is there a face swapping movie that you like? You like Freaky Friday? Miriam: I love an original Freaky Friday. I even love a Lindsay Lohan Freaky Friday. Leslye: I don't know if I've ever seen that. Has is that something you guys have Miriam: What you've never seen either? Kate: Freaky Friday the original or the Lindsay Lohan one? Yeah. Leslye: I've seen the original when I was younger and I think I was bored. Miriam: Just to be clear, Leslye was bored ninety percent of childhood. This Kate: Ha ha. Leslye: Yes, I didn't Miriam: sort of Leslye: really unless it was Singing in the Rain I wasn't really Miriam: No yeah. Leslye: super into it. Okay, hold on. Miriam: Actually, most of our friendship interactions, in them I recall Leslye at one point saying to me, I'm bored, which was offensive because I was usually with her. And she would Leslye: that's true. I did Miriam: she would just scream at me, I'm bored. You are not entertaining me in any way, shape, or form. Leslye: Okay, I would agree with that. I would agree with that. I Yeah, I did Miriam: Yeah, yeah. That's Leslye: I did do that. I lost one of my friends actually once 'cause Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: I was like, why do you not like me? And he was like, Well we went out for a drink the other night and you told me I was boring you. Miriam: Yes, yeah. That was also Leslye: And you can confirm that that was something that I did, is what you're saying. Miriam: Yeah. yeah, all the time. I I was never mad by it though. I I took it as a challenge. Kate: You're like, I gotta step it up. Leslye: Okay, okay. Miriam: I gotta step it up. Leslye: Okay, so Do body swap movies include Big or 13 going on 30? where they're not actually switching places Kate: Ooh. Leslye: with somebody, but they're switching places with a f Kate: With an adult self? Leslye: An adult self. Yeah. Because he's Miriam: I think that is an excellent question. Leslye: Are those body swap movies? Okay. Miriam: What do you think, Kate? Kate: my knee jerk reaction is no. Because you're not swapping with somebody else. You're just yourself. I don't know the definition of a body swap movie, but If you say body swap, I don't think Big. Leslye: Right, right. Miriam: I feel like they are in the same genre though. It's like that like you're fish out of water, Kate: They're related. They can be cousins. Miriam: but I guess the body swap is more like to live in another person's shoes. Kate: A person, yeah. Leslye: what do you think the tone of this movie is? 'Cause you said that you think y it looked scary. Miriam: I'm feeling it's gotta be like action adventure. there's gonna be a car chase. Leslye: Okay. Kate: Predictions, there's a card chase. Miriam: There's a car Leslye: Okay. Miriam: chase, there's a shootout of some kind. Leslye: Right, right, right, right. Miriam: I'm excited, and there's gonna be Nicolas Cage being crazy. Leslye: This do you think you'll like this movie? Do you think you'll like it? Miriam: I feel like I will dislike it because I'm assuming it's gonna be ridiculous, but then maybe I'll enjoy the ridiculous parts. Leslye: Okay, so you answered both. You said y I will enjoy it and I also won't enjoy it. Okay, great. Good answer. Miriam: Both. Now, Kate: Yeah. Miriam: did you do you guys is this a movie you like? Can you remember? Do you like it? Did you l dislike it? Do you not Leslye: I saw it like when it came out. but I saw it I saw it on VHS. I saw it on VHS. that was one that I like snuck snuck in there. Snuck in there. Yeah. I'm doing Miriam: It was rated R. How'd you see it was rated R. Nice, nice, nice. Like it. Kate: Yeah, I'm surprised you were this was permitted. I did I did not like it when I my brothers forced me to watch it of all of the Nick Cage action movies, it's not my favorite one. But it is kind of Miriam: Interesting. Kate: there's like fun I mean, I haven't watched it in a very long time, but there are like fun parts to it. And back in nineteen ninety seven, like what they did. the effects and stuff were cool. The Face/Off Yeah. Miriam: The Face/Off technology? The Face/Off technology. Leslye: Yes, yeah. Yes, yeah. I remember that John Woo directed it and that I was like kind of into that at the time. You know, it was kind of like that was a popular thing, I didn't know anything about him, but I knew that he directed this and then he had also directed Mission Impossible 2 what I remember about it is that it was very John Woo, and at the time Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: I was into that. I feel like Miriam: Okay. Leslye: now I would not enjoy it. and I don't think you're going to. And I think that's great because Miriam: Interesting. Leslye: I think you're gonna come in with really good notes. like studio notes Miriam: Ha ha. Leslye: on the movie. And I'm excited about that. Miriam: I'm like, here's what I would change. Leslye: Yeah, Miriam: Do you think I'll like it, Kate? you're you're like no, hands down. Okay. Leslye: Yeah. Yeah. Kate: No, I don't I but I I think that you might enjoy like bits and pieces, but as Miriam: Okay, the parts of it. Yes, yes, yes. Kate: a whole no, I don't think Miriam: Okay. Kate: so. Miriam: We'll see. We'll see. All right. Leslye: Okay. right. when we come back, Miriam will have seen Face/Off. So hang in there. Kate: Good luck. And we're back. Leslye: Miriam has now seen Face/Off Miriam, what did you think? Miriam: what did I think about Face/Off I thought that this movie was perhaps the most unhinged movie I have ever seen in my life. That being said, I fully enjoyed it and thought Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: that it was probably the best action movie I've ever seen. And I have to admit that I loved every second of it. like let's start at the beginning. The whole first 20 minutes, it did not take a breath. It was just like go, go, go, go, go, go, go. I felt like I was watching the beginning of any Baz Luhrmann movie. At this point I'm like, was John Woo did he really love Romey and Juliet? Is that his Leslye: I know. Miriam: favorite film? Leslye: it must have been a seminal piece of cinema, not just for us, but for renowned director John Woo Miriam: there's so much frenetic energy right at the top. Nick Cage is giving it his all. I had read, not to already get into the second screen facts of it, but Leslye: Let's do it. Miriam: I I did watch an interview with Nick Cage where he was like, I loved making the movie Vampire Kiss. I came to this character in Face/Off He's going full German expressionist in the first 10 to 12 minutes of this movie. He's Leslye: Ha Miriam: like, I he's like, I don't get to play this role the whole movie. I want to establish it big so Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: that John Travolta has to catch up for the entire time. And he goes wild. And I Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: there's somehow a choir singing Handle's Messiah we're doing hallelujah chorus this guy is roaming around sexually harassing strange girls like it was unhinged from minute one not to mention they somehow get in the backstory of Nick Cage killing John Travolta's son in the movie hats off To the first twelve minutes of this movie. Leslye: The first twelve minutes. yeah, I did think Romeo plus Juliet a lot. Miriam: Romeo plus Juliet correct correct. Leslye: It was Miriam: he's just so unhinged and he's like relishing in every single moment, and he's doing a weird dance. So I was like, This movie needs to take a breath, Leslye: When did you finally take a breath in the first like in those first fifteen minutes, twelve minutes? Miriam: Well, I don't think I it's not when I took a breath. There was just a moment where I was like, okay, I guess this is what I'm watching. the first like real action set piece when it's just like bonkers on the runway and Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: Nick Cage is like shooting people. He's got his double gold guns out. when you just know, these people have fully committed to this movie. I knew it, I felt it. I was like, there's this is gonna be like crazy throughout because everyone in this movie has fully committed to it. Like, yes. Leslye: Everyone did, didn't they? Everybody, yeah. And especially especially Margaret Cho Kate: my favorite part. Every time she showed up, I was like, I don't I thought I knew what was going on, but now Margaret Cho is here and I I'm more confused than ever. But I'm I'm on board. Yeah, let's Leslye: She's an anchor though. She's an anchor. Kate: go. Miriam: Well a a very surprise performance and person in this movie was Joan Allen. Kate: yeah. Yeah, yeah. I forgot Miriam: Like Kate: that she was in it. And then you're like, Joan Allen, how did you end up in this? What Miriam: Yeah. Kate: is going on right now? Leslye: I remembered that she was in it. Yeah. Miriam: And and she is playing it straight too. Like she's like she's Leslye: So straight. Miriam: committed too to her character. Leslye: So the movie's going and going and going, and obviously, you know, a couple dummies get thrown out of planes. Miriam: Yes. Leslye: a couple things happen, and then we kind of come off the high of like, okay, this has all been established as the craziest fucking shit we've ever seen. Then what happens? Miriam: Even before we get to the Face/Off, which is, this is just no, no, no. I'm just like Leslye: my bad. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Miriam: that, but that first action scene really sets the tone. it has everything that a good 90s action movie has. It has the shot of a whole fleet of cars going down the runway. It has the private plane trying to take off. Everybody gets killed on the crew, the FBI agent lady gets killed. He has his guns blazing. And I think, is that where we see the close-up of the guns and then the Chiclets his gun case is wild. It's so Leslye: Yeah, when before he gets on the yeah. Miriam: crazy. And then, but then I absolutely was blown away when John Travolta takes to the helicopter and then puts the helicopter on top of the private jet. And then they're somehow in the hangar, and there's the turbine is on. He gets like. Sucked into it, somebody's ear gets shot off. the whole sequence is just absolutely insane. It's brilliant. Like that the level of stunts in this movie Leslye: Brilliant. Miriam: are are totally brilliant. I was very impressed by that first scene. I just I haven't felt that like action rush in a while. I want to say the last like 10 years. Kate: Yeah. Leslye: I don't I don't disagree with you. Yeah. Kate: I don't know if you two feel this way, but sometimes at the end of action movies now, I think the movie is about to end. And then a 30 minute action sequence starts. And Leslye: Yes. Yeah. Miriam: Yeah. Kate: I'm like, we didn't, we're not at the end yet. And this movie, Leslye: Yeah. Kate: I didn't feel that way. It just felt like every action sequence was not. necessary because nothing happening in this movie was necessary, but they all a kinda added to the fun and they didn't feel like crazy or I no, not sorry, crazy. everything felt crazy, like we're just trying to draw this out to make like a runtime happen or something like that. Miriam: Also, everything is so well, Leslye: yeah, yeah. Miriam: it's so well choreographed. Kate: Mm-hmm. Miriam: I'm sure this is John Woo. you could tell that it was planned out, shot by shot, even when they're in the FBI headquarters and papers are flying in the air, even that felt like this is meant to be in this sequence. I think I just appreciated that it was. Unhinged, but also very planned out in terms of the filmmaking. Leslye: Right. Right. It's definitely I don't want to use the word meticulous for something that's so operatic and ridiculous, but and like you said, unhinged and gluttonous was the word I kept thinking of. I was like, this is like you're Miriam: Yes, yeah. Kate: That's a good yeah, that's good. Leslye: just sitting down and being like, eat this whole cake, the entire cake, Leslye. The whole cake. And I'm like, I don't think I can I love this, you know, like I was like, I love eating this. it's meticulous in its execution of the most absurd shit you've ever seen. I had forgotten about this part for some reason, but when he gets out of the prison and he's on the boat. he's like, no. I forgot that like that was the twist that like he's escaped a prison only to be on a boat. Miriam: On an oil tanker or in the middle of the ocean. Leslye: when you think the movie can't top itself. It just tops itself. Miriam: in reading a lot of the descriptions it is bombastic cinema. that's a big 90s term, but this felt like a high octane. Leslye: I've never heard that before. Miriam: I mean, I saw it on the internet. I don't want to take credit for it, but but but it's high it Leslye: Must be true. Must be true. Yeah. Kate: It's gotta be f that's fact then. Miriam: is high octane, it's totally absurd, and it is bombastic. It's just like so extra. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: And I and I think it it's the wildest movie I've ever seen in my life. I really loved that about it. I really did love Leslye: Well did Miriam: that about it. Leslye: did the rest of the movie did live up to the first twelve minutes of the movie for you? Miriam: Say, I think it did. I mean, it's like all of that happens, and we haven't even gotten to the face off. You know, I just Leslye: Yeah, yeah. Miriam: the one thing I truly hated was the like hand motion that John Travolta did with his family, the the creepy spider hand Kate: Hate Hate Miriam: on the face, the like and Matt kept doing it to me. It was menace hands. He does menace hands, like we do it to the dog all the time. Leslye: Why do you do it to the dog all the time? Why would you do like before this movie? Miriam: Just to make her just to make her crazy. Yo, yeah. Matt loves to do just put the a gentle hand in front of her face to make her crazy. Leslye: No. Miriam: is that cruelty? Anyway, I hated the menace hand at like action. So creepy. So creepy. Kate: I hated it too. It was so bizarre. Leslye: That was bad. That was bad. Also, what did it buy us? Kate: I was like, I get it, it's about the face. Miriam: It it it bought us in the end. They know that it's really John Travolta, Joan Allen and the daughter know that it's him because he does the weird menace hands things to them it's so awful. Kate: Well, 'cause he didn't need his bullet he didn't need his bullet wound anymore. So he had healed. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: Right. Miriam: Yes, yes, he's healed. But they Kate: I know, is he killed? Miriam: but the the menaced hands, I think it was also just like a we're taking our face off gesture. That's how I read it. Was that he just did a fingers down the face and then a pull to subtly nod to like, I'm about to lose my face. Leslye: you're about to lose your face. So you better enjoy it right now. Miriam: yeah, let's get to the let's get to the crux of it. Let's get that Leslye: Yeah, let's get to the crux of it. So we've got a Miriam: yeah, the crux of this mission, if I am understanding correctly. Leslye: please tell me, 'cause I have no idea. Miriam: Is that we found one guy in the world who could do the surgery, even though at the end of the movie there's more people that could do the Kate: There's a second. Miriam: surgery, which is the best. I loved it. Just it's so you're telling me that they found this guy who could do the surgery and they're like, we want one more mission. Find out where this bomb is in LA. HellLA That I thought that was very funny that they kept calling it HellLA Leslye: That was ridiculous. That was ridiculous. I was like, you guys all live there, pull it together. Miriam: I do Yes. And I was actually, I loved that it was shot in LA. I love movies that are like set in LA. It's always nice. Leslye: Yeah, me too. Miriam: So I was like, that's unnecessary, the HellLA comment. But okay. I just love that they're like, hey, so are you willing for us to surgically remove your face and then put on another guy's face and promise we'll get you back your old face. No worries. You got are you willing to do that? Sleep on it. And he's like, I'll do it. Huh. Leslye: No questions asked. do you have any follow up questions on that? Nope, Miriam: no follow up. Kate: Ha ha ha. Leslye: not at all. Let's get it done. Get her done. Let's Miriam: Ha ha ha. Leslye: go. Let's go. Miriam: I just love when they say it'll be a temporary trade. Leslye: Them all talking to him. Like you could Miriam: I know, I know, it's so good. Leslye: just see the actors being like, yeah, like not Travolta because he's getting paid a lot of money, probably, but like CCH Pounder and like the other incredible character actors who are in this movie being like, Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: let us explain this is what it is, and this is how it's happening. And guess what? Then this little thing will happen. Any questions, sir? And he's like, gotta talk to my wife, you know. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: They're like, any questions audience? And it's like, Hope not, 'cause we're going. We're moving forward. Miriam: No, but again, maybe the insane first 12 minutes makes you they're all so committed, you know, they're Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: really like this we're doing it. This is the whole premise of the movie. That by the time I got to that sequence where they switch faces, I was kinda like, Yeah, that's this does seem like a good plan. Let's let's do this. Leslye: So you were 100% behind the plan at that point. It's true. It's a really good point. I think this is a Miriam: Ideally. Leslye: great example of the director operating at the top notch of the game where he understands that that first sequence has to be fucking batshit. So that when you are asked to buy into something, you live in a world, in a cinematic world where, sure, like you said, I guess that is a thing that exists in this world because, you know, a helicopter just mounted a plane. So a helicopter Miriam: Yeah. Agreed. Yeah it Leslye: attempted to mate with a plane. Miriam: What does that become? Leslye: Heliplane Miriam: Helioplane That works for me. Helioplane. Helijet HellLA Leslye: Helioplane Copter. Helijet Miriam: the lines in this movie are so unhinged and And Nicolas Cage is playing it as such a unhinged little scamp. Like he's like a he's a scamp, but he's an unhinged scamp. It totally all makes sense. Because a scamp. Like a lovable Leslye: What's a scamp? Genuinely no, I've heard. Miriam: scamp. Leslye: I'm gonna, I want you to tell me right now Miriam: jeez. Leslye: what does scamp actually mean? Because I'm gonna look it up. Kate: Just googling it. Miriam: A scamp is like a scamp is like somebody who's a bit of a troublemaker, but you love them. But they're a little bit of a troublemaker. Leslye: I love when you're so serious. First of all, you absolutely nailed it. A playful or mischievous person. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: You nailed it, Miriam. why do I ever doubt you? Miriam: these weird lines about like you're a peach and I'm gonna lick you and like I just shot off your ear and I love when his brother's like, Don't call me bro Leslye: Brother was so great. Miriam: Great. That actor is great. He was he was actually, you know what I realized? He was in Love Story He plays Calvin Klein in Love Story. Leslye: he was amazing. Yeah. Alessandro Nivola, yeah. Miriam: Yeah, he was amazing. Yes, thank you. Yeah, Kate: You know what Miriam: he was great. Kate: I learned in my second screen facts is that this movie is what made I hate to see you go, but I love to watch you leave, like a famous thing in pop culture. Yeah. Leslye: No it didn't. Miriam: No way. Leslye: No way. That existed before that. Kate: I was like, there's no way it's unique to that script, but if you look up what made that famous, how it got embedded Miriam: Right. Kate: into pop culture, it's credited to Face/Off like the wee, what a predicament. there are some wild lines in this. Miriam: these lines are so wild. But then when you think of the mind that comes up with this idea of like, let's have this cop and this criminal literally switch faces. I thought maybe going in, like I thought maybe for a second it was a metaphor in some way. Kate: No. No it's not. Miriam: So Leslye: This is not a metaphor type movie. This is kind Kate: No. Leslye: of a Miriam: I just shout out to a crazy idea and the sequence, like to get into the sequence where they actually switch the faces is legit. I mean, my Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: heart was warmed by the late 90s computer graphics. Leslye: yeah. Yeah, those are always so good. Those are always so good. This is Miriam: I Leslye: very GoldenEye adjacent, I'd say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Miriam: Absolutely. We're doing a black bag op. You know, call Interpol. Anytime you hear like Interpol, I'm like, we're in a spy movie. I have no idea what Interpol is, but it's a spy movie. Leslye: But also there's a Jurassic Park. It's like this happened in Jurassic Park and this movie. And in GoldenEye where they'll be typing something furiously on the computer, and then all of a sudden, an animated gif comes up of Miriam: Yeah. yeah, this Leslye: of like in this one, it's like a woman being like, Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: and then in in Jurassic Park, obviously it's uh-uh-uh, didn't say the magic word. Miriam: Exact Leslye: And then Alan Cummings is just like a memoji of Alan Cummings I'm telling you, these they're they're not as far off as we think they were. I l at the beginning of the movie I was like, does he have an iPad? Miriam: Yeah, seriously. It y it did. Leslye: straight up had an iPad. This predicted the future. You know, honestly, Steve Jobs took a lot from this movie and we can learn from it. We can learn from it. Miriam: And similar to Back to the Future 2, where has this technology? Why have don't we have this technology yet? Why do we not have Face/Off technology yet? Why do you not why Leslye: Wait. Sorry, this is a Miriam: do we not have the ability Leslye: To do what? Miriam: to replace faces yet? That seems like something we would love as a society. Kate: First of all, face transplants are a real thing. They do exist. Leslye: They do we do have it. Like Kate: They're just not used for these purposes. Leslye: had it then! That was the that was the the inspo for the movie second screen facts, i.e. just looking at it on Wikipedia was that at the yeah, Miriam: Really? Leslye: the script was in in you have to read the sentence, it's really funny, but it's more funny for me to try to remember it, which is it's like two guys who wrote it, like they their friend was in like a hang gliding accident. Miriam: Yes, I did read this! I did read this! Leslye: And they had to like pull their friend's face off a face off and then put it back on. Or or like graft it or something. I don't know. I don't know. Miriam: You are so right. Mike Werb and Michael Calligreed. Sorry, guys, about the names. It Leslye: R. I. P. guys, yeah. Miriam: was a spec script. Wait, who do we? They're not, they're not dead. Leslye. yeah. Sorry, sorry. Leslye: Remember this bet well, I just meant 'cause you got their names wrong. Kate: Pronunciation of their names. Miriam: It was a spec script, and they were inspired to write it after a mutual friend injured themselves in a hand gliding accident. He injured his face and they had to remove it and reconstruct it before re adding it What? Leslye: Yeah. So Miriam: What? Leslye: they have always had this technology. Kate: So based on a true story. based on a true story. Leslye: That's right. That's right. Miriam: Based on a true story. Kate: I think that this movie is where my fear of facelifts come from. Like the sheer concept of it in my mind is exactly what happens in face off. Like I just anytime someone is like, you know, they're like, this person had a facelift. I'm this this is what I envision. Leslye: Yeah, you envisioned them Miriam: So you're Leslye: coming in with like a completely new face. Ugh. I think they do though. Miriam: So you ja. Kate: they take it off and just I don't know. it's creepy. I'm like you've believe people not seen Face/Off Miriam: the most amazing makeup Leslye: Wait. Miriam: was when you saw Nicholas's cage's face when it's all just bloodied. And I was like, Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: I was like, they're not gonna show it. They're not gonna show and then they did it and I was like, this is awesome. This is awesome. Kate: I think it would have been way gorier if they made it today. I think they did a Leslye: I think so, yeah. Miriam: Yeah, well Kate: lot of sort of like even when they show up his face, it's sort of in the shadows kind of thing. Yeah, in the reflection. Yeah. Leslye: Well, it's in the reflection of the guy's glasses, too. Yeah. Miriam: Which is amazing. Leslye: Awesome, yeah. Miriam: Such a cool shot. I did really like it. Kate: Mir, what Leslye: You Kate: did you think of the father son storyline Leslye: Mm-hmm. Kate: in this movie? Did you find it heartwarming? Miriam: are you referring to John Travolta's character wanting Kate: Well, there's two of them. Miriam: to adopt Kate: Yeah, after the tragic loss of Miriam: And the Gina Gersha Kate: his own son. Miriam: yes, and Gina Gershon yeah as the Kate: Mm-hmm. Miriam: mother of Castor Troy's baby I was like a little bit confused about it, and then I was luckily, because it's this movie, she was like, It's it's your baby. Like I Leslye: Ha ha. Miriam: You're like, let's make sure it's really clear. Leslye: They did reshoots. They did reshoots. So we're like, people don't get it. I know it's weird. They think you just stole that kid at the end. Miriam: Yeah. I mean, fine. I think the scene where they're shooting up the criminal base and like that apartment looks awesome. I love the curved windows and they're just going through and shooting up that whole space. I thought that was a very like the kid would became a very cool prop where he's like running through the apartment and he's just holding the kid and throwing the kid around. I was like, this poor little child. Leslye: You could also tell that the kid's stunt double was just a small, woman, you know, like Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: maybe like four foot nine or something. Miriam: Yeah. The stunt the stunts Leslye: The stunt doubles. Miriam: the stunt doubles. I mean they did the stunts were amazing. Every I I just of this was truly amazing Leslye: Incredible. Miriam: stunt work, really incredible. But I was howling. Leslye: The doubles. Miriam: There are so many scenes where you see the stunt actors, stunt performers, and it is clearly Leslye: Clearly. Miriam: clearly not Nick Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: Cage and John Travolta. It well there were Kate: When the my favorite was when the daughter fell down the stairs Miriam: Yeah. Kate: she just keeps falling in like the most unnatural way possible. And I was like, it looks like they just like chucked a dummy down the stairs. I was laughing. Leslye: Love when they got like I love when they got hand doubles to do the knife work because clearly none of the actors could do it. The Miriam: yes, yeah. Leslye: actors were like, by the way, if if Nick Cage had that knife, you best believe he would know how to do that. Like Miriam: yes. Kate: 100% Leslye: John Travolta and the little girl were like, We don't have time. We haven't, Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: we don't have time. We've got to learn our lines. We just got here, you know. Nick Cage would have been working on that since he was 17 years old. Miriam: that whole knife sequence. I was like almost thinking to myself, did Game of Thrones steal Arya Stark knifing the White Walker? Because it's almost the same thing where she like, you know, it's like the knife falls, she does Well I Leslye: It's not the same th. It's not the same thing at all, Miriam. Okay, why did it remind Miriam: It reminded it reminded me of it. Great. Yeah. Leslye: you of it? Because they're both knives. Miriam: it's like you know this little girl and she like really gets him with the knife and and just the like motion of it kind of reminded me of it but I I did Leslye: I see, I see. Miriam: I did love that in the end he's like my daughter would never be so bad with a gun and then she gets him with the knife Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: And he told and he teaches her how to do it. I mean, they're they're both doing such an amazing job playing the other character that even I'm like confused remembering it who was in which part. Like it's Leslye: I agree. Miriam: I I know that their performances are so over the top, but I don't you know, but yeah. Leslye: Are they though? I mean, I would push back on it because you're right. Like what I remembered was like, my God, they're so over the top. It's so hammy. It's so ridiculous. But then watching it, I was like, it is really those first 12 minutes where you're like, this Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: is nuts, like what I'm watching. And then once they switched, I didn't I first of all, Nick Cage was grounded as fuck. Like Miriam: I mean, he is truly a great I do think they're chewing up the scenery. Like it is a big performance, but I I Leslye: Well yes, yeah, that's true. Miriam: bought it and I do think that they were great. And I and I and I am like, Nick Cage is his range is absolutely insane. It's it's Leslye: Unbelievable. Kate: Nuts. Miriam: it's nuts. It's so nuts. Kate: realize that until we started this experiment with Nick Cage month. I don't think I gave him the credit he deserved. And I but I will go out on a limb and I realize this is our starting point with Nick Cage, but I do believe that action adventure Nick Cage is my favorite Nick Cage. Like he is a wonderful Miriam: I I think so. Hands down. Leslye: Really? Kate: actor, but he's so good. I so good at all of them. Like there isn't an action adventure movie that he's in that I don't enjoy watching, I think. Miriam: He's so enjoyable. He's Leslye: Really? Miriam: so enjoyable. Kate: Hey, so you haven't seen a bunch of them, but go watch ConAir Go watch the ri they're so good. Miriam: Conair. Leslye: I haven't seen that's true. Yeah. Well we should do it for for next season I'll watch Con Air. Or we Miriam: Yeah. Kate: Okay. Leslye: can wa I can watch National Treasure because I've never seen that. Miriam: Never seen National Treasure. I I will Kate: yeah, that's a good one too. Miriam: John Travolta, I thought he was great, and I did totally like love when he was playing, Nick Cage. And I did watch something where he was saying that he would get the dailies and study them. But for the first five or ten minutes that John Travolta is is doing Castor Troy. the Nick Cage character. I did really think he was doing Jim Carrey. His impression His impression to me was like, did you just watch Ace Ventura? Like I Leslye: I agree. I did think that too. There was Kate: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leslye: something, you're right. There was something he did. And I was like, oof, that's it's a little Ace Ventura. since we've been doing this series, I am like, Nick Cage is astonishing. not in an ironic way, not in a meme way. this is one of the greatest actors we've ever had. I think the thing about him is that he just I haven't seen everything he's done, but even the bad things that I've seen he's done, like he's not phoning it in, I think ever. I think he always comes, like, even if he doesn't want to be there, he comes in with an idea. He's like, I'm gonna do this. if you listen to that interview with I think it's with the New York Times they're talking to him about his process and how he chooses things. And there was one movie that he didn't name, but he was like, you know, I really didn't want to do this movie, but I needed the money because there was this other Miriam: Mm. Leslye: movie I really wanted to do. So I decided to do this movie. And I said I would do it if I could wear a green hat. And talk with this accent. they were like, okay. And he was like, okay, great. Like he finds something that is going to be exciting for him. And you can tell watching this film, my God, this is like his favorite thing, which is that you come in, I'm sure the chiclets was a thing that he came up with. I actually wonder if even the peach thing was something he came up with. Like He maybe not, but the suck the tongue thing, these just all felt Kate: Yeah that Leslye: like Nick Cageisms to me if you want him to be a psycho murderer, then he should be doing psycho stuff. Miriam: again, to hear him speak about how he was trying to approach it as he's bringing in these elements of German expressionist Nosferatu into this crazy Face/Off character. It like Leslye: yeah. Miriam: you're saying, he's he truly thinks through every aspect of the performance and I think tries to bring something different to each role, no matter what the role is, which is just so awesome. when he delivers that the face off line. It is brilliant when he's like, face off. And it just like floats into the ether. You're like, wow. Just wow. Leslye: Eight. Deal with it. I Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: the whole section where he's in the jail. I was like, him, Miriam: Yes. Leslye: it's him as an actor, as Jim Carrey, Jim Miriam: As Jim Carrey Leslye: Carrey was in this movie. It's the actor Nicholas Cage pretending to be John Travolta's character. pretending to be Nicolas Cage's character. Like I I was like, Miriam: It's Leslye: I don't even know what's going on. Miriam: I know. Leslye: But he does it. when he's like he loses it for a while. when he's like pointed the gun at himself in the mirror. he just got it in a way that I didn't think that Travolta I I never liked Travolta as much as I liked Nick Cage But I think at the time, because Travolta was in such an upswing from Pulp Fiction, he was so much cooler at Miriam: Yes. He's in a run. Leslye: that time. What did you think of Travolta in this? Miriam: I actually loved Travolta. I also thought he was really good. once I get over the Jim Carrey thing and he kind of settles into the role, and you see him back like home with his wife and his daughter. I love when he like beats up Hyde, from that 70s show. I was like, yeah, get him. I was like, get him. Yeah, I was like, yeah, get him. Leslye: I was like, is that him? Yeah. Yeah. I Miriam: Travolta is delivering these insane lines too. He has some line where he says something kind of like to his daughter, yeah, if you dress up as a Halloween character, you'll attract ghouls to get in your pants, or some like wild line where you're just like, What? Leslye: Right. Right. Miriam: I do feel like Travolta, you could tell he was having fun. he really was channeling, as you're saying, not only is he channeling Nicolas Cage, but he's channeling that. character so well. So Leslye: Yeah. Yeah. Miriam: I I thought he was he was great Leslye: I'm glad that you feel this way because re-watching it, I was like, I wonder if Miriam will think these performances are scenery chewing, or if she'll think that they're like really well observed performances. And they're kind of both, right? Miriam: Both. I think both. Yeah. Kate: Yeah, yeah. Miriam: Yeah. Kate, who do you like better? Travolta or Cage in this? Kate: Cage. I I didn't think Travolta's characters I like a Leslye: Travolta found dead. Please continue, Kate. Kate: he didn't feel as believable to me as the bad character. It felt more caricatury and it's fine Leslye: Yeah. Kate: because there was so much going on didn't really matter. But if I had to put the two side by side and pick one, I'd go with Cage. Leslye: Well did Miriam, Miriam: Okay. Leslye: did the did the film exceed your expectations? Or or so you didn't even think it was gonna Miriam: 100%. Hundred percent. I thought it was gonna be so terrible. I really didn't think it was gonna be good. Leslye: you okay. Miriam: it's not a movie that I would typically love, but I just thought it was just so like I keep saying it was so unhinged. Like there's a line Leslye: Ha ha Miriam: where they're it like shooting out the criminal's lair. there's a line where the guy's like, wow, my place is getting fucked up. And I just was like, like all of these background characters I thought were committed. I was like, yeah, I would feel the same way. It's awful. And and to go back to the prison scene, I think that's kind of like almost a throwaway section, but they've got their magnetic boots. that was a really Cool idea. on top of Nicolas Cage doing all of these different iterations of things, he's gotta do this very physical, bodywork of like having to move in these crazy boots. I thought it was so over the top and crazy that I truly appreciated it. Leslye: he's a movie star of our generation. Like we're not the same age as him, Kate: when this film came out and we were in high school, he was a full blown movie star. Yeah. Leslye: Exactly. Yeah. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: we were too young to see Raising Arizona when it was out in theaters, or Moonstruck or these movies in the late 80s. It feels like we grew up with him and he was already a movie star. And what's crazy is like I just don't think of him as that very often in my head. I I just think of him as like Nick Cage. beam of pure energy that exists in the world. seeing him in this movie, I was like, what an incredible, incredible put on this earth to act guy. Miriam: It's so interesting what you're saying, Leslye, because that really speaks to his breadth of work. to Kate's point, you're saying that you don't picture him as this big action star, big movie star, but that is so based on your curated lists of Nick Cage movies that you've seen. Whereas Kate and Leslye: Right. Miriam: I, I think we we've seen all the big action films. to have a body of work as an actor where you where people can know you. As like being in these disparate genres of films and completely have Leslye: that's true. Miriam: a different take on your career because you've done so many crazy amazing performances. That's truly impressive. Like I really feel like he doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. Leslye: I agree. I agree. You're right. your understanding of Nick Cage as an actor has to do with you, not with Nick Cage. Because you're right, to Miriam: Yeah. And because Leslye: me, he's like this, he's actually an indie darling Miriam: indie darling, yeah. Leslye: character actor. Cause Leaving Las Vegas was a really early watch for me. with him. Miriam: Hmm. Leslye: So I always thought of him as a dramatic actor. since then I usually watch really random movies with him, Dream Scenario and Long Legs were the recent ones that I watched. obviously Adaptation I was like, holy shit. He was so fucking great in that. Miriam: Love Adaptation Kate: wanna Miriam: he's just a working actor. He's willing to take on as many of these crazy roles as possible to, pay off taxes or whatever. But the crazy thing is that he makes them all his own. there's always this through line of like his crazy performances. sometimes he just have to take these films on and he's like, Yeah, I'll do it and I'm gonna make it my own a hundred percent. he's so great. We could talk about him all day, but Leslye: Maybe I'm right ab wrong about that. Miriam: the other things that I do want Joan Allen was really great. I did like her. I did think it was like again hilarious that she's like taking blood samples. She's a doctor. She's Leslye: Was she a doctor? Like what didn't why forgot? Yeah, but when Kate: Yeah, she's a doctor in it. Leslye: did we learn that? I forgot that part. Miriam: Learned it when she has the ability to just quickly see if he's a A-B negative or a no. Leslye: Like what were we told that early on or not? I was like, like when she we weren't, right? Okay, whatever. It doesn't matter. But it yes, Miriam: Yeah yeah. No I don't think so. Leslye: I died when she did that. She did that stone faced. She was like, Miriam: yes, yeah. Leslye: I am gonna look through this this microscope and I am going to discover something. Miriam: It's just such a good plot point to like move it ahead. But I and I do like that sh that he has the voice chip again, just like really good black bag ops. There's also a voice chip implanted and right at the right moment it's gonna kind of phase in and out so we can kind of tell what's happening. I I actually think that was a a brilliant device because it Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: it helps us like as the audience like know what's happening. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: Also, another detail I just love is how he's like, my face is itching like that to me was just such a funny detail. Leslye: That was good. That was good. Miriam: and I it's funny you guys mentioned that little kid because the thing that I liked the best again when he's being thrown around in that crazy scene is that they put headphones on the kid and he's listening to Somewhere Over the Rainbow right? Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: And so that there's like that as a background music to that crazy scene. I just a lot Leslye: It was so great. Miriam: of there's a lot of good unhinged details in this movie that I really, really liked. I loved all the set pieces. I was a big fan of all of the action, but by the end when they get to the like speed boats. You know, which is obviously the best it was ever has been done is in Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. By the time they Leslye: Agreed. Miriam: get to the speedboats I was like, I think I'm kinda ready for this to end, you know? Like that's Leslye: I did think of Indiana Jones and the last Crusade I was like, Miriam's Miriam's gonna clock this, yeah. Miriam: I th immediately. Yeah, yeah. But the end just felt so Miami Vice TV action. Everybody's like jumping off things. There's a lot of setting people on fire in this movie. There I yeah. Leslye: there's a lot of like people being pushed out of things by fire. I love a nineties explosion that like pushes someone into a different area but doesn't burn them horrifically. Yeah. Cause fire and wind are pretty much the same thing. Miriam: Yeah, totally, totally. There was also yeah. Kate: for all of the people who do die in the shootouts, there are so many people who don't. at one point I was like, We have now should have gun down everybody in this city with the amount Leslye: Yeah. Kate: of ammo going on here. And for some reason the three of you are still running around, no problem. Leslye: the great thing that I love about this movie too, from a cheesy Hollywood perspective, is when you talk about making movies, especially big budget blockbuster movies, right? You're a high concept. And this is the highest concept you could possibly pitch anybody. The sign of a good high concept movie is even if the concept is absolutely fucking crazy, like this one is, if you squeeze out every single possible like fun and games to be had out of that high concept, then you've won. And I think that's what happens with this movie is every single thing that could come out of two men switching faces happens in this movie. Like no crumbs are left. You know, Miriam: Yes. And I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and I did like at the end where there's like all this bright light, you know, as he's like Leslye: yes. Miriam: getting his face back, and then he's like, like Kate had said, he's like, I don't need the scar. I'm fine. I don't need the scar. he like enters his house And he's taken his wedding ring back. And he's like brings in his new son. And it's Like, let's end this crazy ass movie. I enjoyed the ride. Thanks so much, John Woo and friends. Leslye: all right. Well I think that's all we got for face slash off. Miriam: Yeah. Face off. Face menace hands off. if we were a better movie podcast, we would talk more about John Woo, but we're not that. And I think I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. Leslye: We are not. We are not. Miriam: think my final verdict is I did enjoy it. I'm not gonna it's not the best movie ever, but it was pretty entertaining and I am so happy I finally watched it. Leslye: Okay, if you A B C grade of all of your Nick Cage performances Miriam: Nick all nick hall. Leslye: you've ever seen, is this an A, B, or a C? Miriam: To me, it's like an A performance from Nick Cage because he is playing at one moment completely unhinged, and then at the next moment, I'm just playing a like a straight, you know, I'm a cop. And like so, I feel like the range that we're seeing from Nick Cage in it, it's it's an A from me. Love it, love it. Leslye: I'm with you. I'm with you. Miriam: still friends, bro? Kate: Give this give this man an Oscar. Leslye: Let's give him an Oscar. he'd won one. I think he won his Oscar like the year Kate: But not for this. Leslye: before this movie, by the way. I think he was like, Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: all right, got the Oscar. Let's move on with our lives. we can still be friends with you, Miriam, because you did answer correctly, Miriam: Excellent. Leslye: which is that this movie is awesome and it's an A-plus Nick Cage performance. Thanks for joining us. Miriam: Well I said A, but okay. Leslye: Wait, what? Miriam: I said A, but okay. I didn't say A plus. Leslye: okay. Okay, you're saving your A plus for something else. We'll see you next time, next week, when we watch another Nick Cage movie, Thanks for joining us this week on How Have You Not Seen This? I'm Leslye Miriam: I'm Miriam. Kate: And I'm Kate. Leslye: Tell us what movie we should watch at howhaveyounotseenthis.com. You can subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at H-H-Y-N-S T Pod. Tune in next time for another crime against cinema. And remember, friends are not friends unless they fight about movies.