Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Exclusive: Nancy Grace talks to lawyer who filed sex assault lawsuits against Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein & director Brian Singer

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Exclusive: Nancy Grace talks to lawyer who filed sex assault lawsuits against Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein & director Brian Singer · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: for protecting our children. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on
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Speaker 1: Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two. You know
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Speaker 1: the films Shakespeare and Love, Good Will, Hunting, Silver Linings, Playbo.
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Speaker 1: The Man behind Them legendary Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein. Eight women,
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Speaker 1: including actress Ashley Judd, paid forward to accuse Weinstein of
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Speaker 1: sexual misconduct. The Times uncovered sexual harassment allegations that span
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Speaker 1: almost three decades. Very comfortable coming now and one minute
1:34
Speaker 1: if you want to leave when the guy comes in
1:35
Speaker 1: my mind, I'm sorry, Just come on. I'm used today.
1:40
Speaker 1: Are you used to that? He just is very dominant, persuasive,
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Speaker 1: does not back down if you say no, and he's
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Speaker 1: like touching me what with me? And he's it just
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Speaker 1: relax and I'm telling him to stop, and he would
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Speaker 1: raise his voice, but at the same time he kept
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Speaker 1: reassuring me that everything's going to be okay. It hit
1:58
Speaker 1: like a bomb. You know, it's funny. I prosecuted funny odd,
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Speaker 1: by the way, not funny, ha ha funny. I prosecuted rape, sodomy's,
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Speaker 1: agassaults with intent to rape, all sorts of sex assaults
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Speaker 1: for years and years and years and years, representing women
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Speaker 1: at the Battered Women's Center in court. It just goes
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Speaker 1: on and on and on, the claims against women and children,
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Speaker 1: the most vulnerable in our society. But it took Harvey
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Speaker 1: Weinstein to bring it to the forefront for everyone to
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Speaker 1: actually talk about sex assault. Nobody wants to hear the
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Speaker 1: word rape, and I don't blame them, but now because
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Speaker 1: of Harvey Weinstein. It's part of everyone's everyday vernacular. I Meancy, Grace,
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Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us
2:51
Speaker 1: and with me now. The man who was taking on
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Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein representing two of the women that claim he
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Speaker 1: assaulted them, Jeff Herman is with me, plaintiff's lawyer in
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Speaker 1: the Harvey Weinstein and Brian Singer sex assault lawsuits. That
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Speaker 1: takes a lot of guts. Let me tell you something,
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Speaker 1: It's hard to go against somebody rich and powerful and famous.
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Speaker 1: Believe you me, I've done it and I still suffer
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Speaker 1: the repercussions from it to this very day. First to
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Speaker 1: alexis to rest Chuck before we hear Jeff Herman's take
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Speaker 1: on this. Alexis tress Chuck. Radar Online dot Com investigative
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Speaker 1: reporter Alexis. How many women are now claiming Weinstein either
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Speaker 1: harass them, came onto them, uh touch them, or outright
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Speaker 1: raped them. This is a sickening number, Nancy. It is
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Speaker 1: almost onely. The last time I asked you that you're
3:50
Speaker 1: around authority, I think one hundred women and you know
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Speaker 1: the other day, um it was. Her name is on
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Speaker 1: the tip of my tongue. Alexis. She said she was
4:01
Speaker 1: responding to something Meryl Streep had said about Harvey Weinstein's
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Speaker 1: actions being disrespectful, and she said, disrespectful, it's rape. It's rape.
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Speaker 1: That's a crime. The other day I was on Doctor Oz,
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Speaker 1: who I love, by the way, on one of his
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Speaker 1: crime shows, and um, he had on Alexis Torres chuck
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Speaker 1: uh spinner. In other words, a PR guru who is
4:25
Speaker 1: describing how he helps men like Weinstein come up with
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Speaker 1: a press statement and map out their behavior in the
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Speaker 1: press after they're accused of hin his crime. Halfway through it,
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Speaker 1: I just couldn't contain myself. Every woman in the audience
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Speaker 1: was looking at me, can't you say something? And I said,
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Speaker 1: wait a minute, Am I the crazy one here? Because
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Speaker 1: why are we talking about what these guys are going
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Speaker 1: to say when we should be talking about the women
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Speaker 1: who are rape victims? Who cares what they're gonna say
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Speaker 1: at the press. Alexa's how did it get to be
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Speaker 1: one hundred? Help me? I think the people are so
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Speaker 1: have been so snowed by these men for so many years,
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Speaker 1: and as a reporter I have to include the statements
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Speaker 1: from the people that are accused that it's what we
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Speaker 1: have to do in our job, and so the fact
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Speaker 1: that you fought back against that man is really interesting.
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Speaker 1: It was Rose McGowan who has been calling out Harvey
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Speaker 1: Weinstein people. Rose McGowen, Ye, she she is not a
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Speaker 1: lone voice in the wilderness, although she may have been
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Speaker 1: one of the first. Before I go to Dr Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: l a psycho analysts, I want to go to Jeff Herman,
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Speaker 1: the man who is taking on Harvey Weinstein and in
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Speaker 1: the Brian Singer sex assault case as well. Jeff Herman,
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Speaker 1: I want to first talk about the Harvey Weinstein case. Jeff,
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Speaker 1: you know you're jumping out of the frying pan and
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Speaker 1: into the fire right because you know as much as
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Speaker 1: we all suspect he did this. I mean, could one
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Speaker 1: hundred women be wrong? And if one of them, one
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Speaker 1: of them is telling the truth about rape. You know,
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Speaker 1: in some jurisdictions you can still go to jail for
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Speaker 1: life for rape. Jeff, you know that you're a lawyer.
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Speaker 1: So long story short, it doesn't matter if he's guilty
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Speaker 1: to some people. He's rich and he's powerful. Okay, tell
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Speaker 1: me the whole thing, Jeffreman. Start at the beginning, how
6:14
Speaker 1: did you first decide you would take on Harvey Weinstein
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Speaker 1: and civil courts? It's apparently police are doing nothing right.
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Speaker 1: So so the first case that I took on was
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Speaker 1: was for Dominique Hewitt, which is the young aspiring actress
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Speaker 1: who when when she tells her story, UM, it's it's
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Speaker 1: very interesting because she's one of the victims who, like
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Speaker 1: many of these, are what we call complying victims. They're
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Speaker 1: they're a gault women who end up being lord into
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Speaker 1: his hotel room. What she alleges is that she's thinking
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Speaker 1: it's a business meeting, UM, and then he comes out
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Speaker 1: in the bathroom naked underneath UM and starts to touch
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Speaker 1: her and persist until the point where she relents. Now
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Speaker 1: that in that case, okay, wait a minute, just give
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Speaker 1: the women on the panel, that would be Alexis Bethany
7:04
Speaker 1: and myself just a moment ago oh oh, just imagining
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Speaker 1: him coming out of a bathroom in a bathrobe with
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Speaker 1: nothing underneath and pause, Jeff, Dr Bethany. Um. I have
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Speaker 1: been in so many hotel rooms and strip clubs and
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Speaker 1: crack houses and um brothels, which is a nice way
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Speaker 1: to put it, and housing projects and flop houses and
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Speaker 1: burned out houses. So many times um investigating cases. I
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Speaker 1: remember from the longest time, I'd make my investigator go
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Speaker 1: into the strip club and bring the person out, because
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Speaker 1: I would not have it, said be Nancy Grist wasn't
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Speaker 1: a strip club, Okay, so they'd have to come out
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Speaker 1: in the parking lot talk to me. He'd go in
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Speaker 1: and get him with his badge. Okay. So I did
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Speaker 1: not want to be in any way in a strip
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Speaker 1: crack house, fine strip club. Okay. So I don't know
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Speaker 1: what was going on in my head, but you know,
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Speaker 1: to say, Jeff Herman just said complying victims. Okay, I'll
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Speaker 1: take it up with Jeff in a moment. But I
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Speaker 1: don't like complying. I don't like because why shouldn't a
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Speaker 1: woman go anywhere? Why why do you have to be
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Speaker 1: feel afraid to go in a room with a man,
8:24
Speaker 1: or getting a van, or go on a date, or
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Speaker 1: go jogging. I mean, we're basically screwed no matter what
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Speaker 1: we do. Okay, that's the lay of the land right here.
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Speaker 1: And and I don't think I'm complying with anything by
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Speaker 1: living my life. Well, the very language itself compliant victim
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Speaker 1: gets to the heart of why women more women don't
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Speaker 1: come forward, or sexual sex assault victims in general. I
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Speaker 1: will never forget the first time I ever studied sexual abuse,
8:53
Speaker 1: many years ago, my professor said to me, um, I
8:56
Speaker 1: want to tell you students something that's gonna sound wrong
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Speaker 1: and sound unpopular. But until you understand this, you will
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Speaker 1: never understand the plight of the victim. He said. Every
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Speaker 1: victim wants something. A child wants to be loved, all right,
9:11
Speaker 1: in this case, maybe these women wanted a role. But
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Speaker 1: just because the victim wants something doesn't mean that they
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Speaker 1: were not victimized. And sometimes the victim even gets gratification.
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Speaker 1: A child can be made to be aroused in the
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Speaker 1: service of trying to get the love of the parent.
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Speaker 1: Um Uh. An actress can be seduced into thinking that
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Speaker 1: if she complies, she'll get the role. But that doesn't
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Speaker 1: mean that the assault is not an assault. Because the
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Speaker 1: victim wants something, that is what creates the guilt. Guilt
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Speaker 1: then creates shame. Shame makes them repress the entire incident
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Speaker 1: and discourages them from going forward. That's why compliant victim
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Speaker 1: is it's just not a good phrase to use. Herman,
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Speaker 1: Now you started all this, he's only managed to get
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Speaker 1: one sentence out. But you're on a panel of women. Okay,
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Speaker 1: I don't know what you thought was going to happen here.
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Speaker 1: But back to you, Jeff Herman. You're the guy who's
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Speaker 1: representing these women and taking on Rvy Weinstein. But Alexis
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Speaker 1: and Bethany and I will totally get on your case. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So can you not say compliant base if you gotta
10:16
Speaker 1: come you're well, you're a great lawyer to come up
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Speaker 1: with a different word. They're hoodwinked victim. Actually, the reason
10:20
Speaker 1: I use the word complaint because it explains why victims
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Speaker 1: why it's so difficult to come forward, because there's a
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Speaker 1: self plaint, the self blame. They think they've done something
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Speaker 1: wrong and it doesn't. I'm not saying a complying victim
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Speaker 1: means they're not victimized. What I'm saying is it's a
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Speaker 1: term that explains the complexity of what goes on in
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Speaker 1: the victim's mind and how the perpetrator is able to
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Speaker 1: get away. You gotta think of a better word. Alexis
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Speaker 1: and Bethany think on that for a moment. I want
10:44
Speaker 1: to get back to Jeff Herman. One of the women
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Speaker 1: he is representing and their cases against Harvey Weinstein. And
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Speaker 1: I don't want to hear a word about Uh, they
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Speaker 1: want money? What choice do they have since the police
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Speaker 1: are not filing criminal complaints. You know, if they're lying,
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Speaker 1: it will come out on cross examination. I don't think
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Speaker 1: that they are, but I want to I want to
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Speaker 1: go to the first one that Jeff Herman has described
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Speaker 1: as his reputees representing its Dominique Hewitt. Jeff Herman, tell
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Speaker 1: me how you met her, how you analyzed her demeanor,
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Speaker 1: and what you've learned about her case before we moved
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Speaker 1: to the next list. Victim Dominique reached out to me
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Speaker 1: Um and wanted to tell her story. It wasn't sure
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Speaker 1: what she could do, whether there was any action she
11:31
Speaker 1: could take, and she in our in our first conversations,
11:37
Speaker 1: talked about will She felt that maybe, you know, she
11:40
Speaker 1: could have run out of the room, maybe she did
11:41
Speaker 1: something wrong. And then we talked about that, and Um
11:45
Speaker 1: she began to understand sort of the pressure she was
11:48
Speaker 1: in and how when she was in that room her
11:51
Speaker 1: mind sort of frozen and she went into what some
11:54
Speaker 1: people call this tonic immobility, which is like what did
11:57
Speaker 1: you say the what tonic immobile? Tonic immobility? I've never
12:02
Speaker 1: heard that. What is that? It's it's like the free state,
12:06
Speaker 1: when when a person's in their stress response, they freeze,
12:10
Speaker 1: and as much as they may want to scream and
12:12
Speaker 1: run out of the room, they can't. They feel paralyzed. Um,
12:16
Speaker 1: and that's very confusing to a victim. I get a
12:18
Speaker 1: lot of cases for women who are assaulted in getting
12:21
Speaker 1: a massage and afterwards they questioned themselves, well, why didn't
12:24
Speaker 1: I run? Why didn't I scream? And the answer is
12:27
Speaker 1: they couldn't. Their their minds would not let them because
12:29
Speaker 1: they're sort of playing dead as a defense mechanisms. A moment,
12:32
Speaker 1: I want to go through, uh, this particular victim's claim
12:38
Speaker 1: or should I say alleged victim Alexis torres Chuck, give
12:42
Speaker 1: me in a nutshell what happened with Jeff Herman's client,
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Speaker 1: Dominique Hewitt. She, like many other women in Hollywood, agreed
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Speaker 1: to take a meeting with Harvey Weinstein at the Peninsula Hotel.
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Speaker 1: This is back in and she went to the meeting,
12:56
Speaker 1: which I know it seems weird to people that have
13:00
Speaker 1: all of their business meetings, you know, at work in
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Speaker 1: a conference room. But this is why, the way that
13:05
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein has been conducting his meetings for thirty years,
13:08
Speaker 1: that that's not uncommon. When um, I'm in New York
13:11
Speaker 1: and we're not going to an office. I meet somebody
13:13
Speaker 1: for coffee. Okay, I meet somebody for lunch. And it's
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Speaker 1: been many time. I meet Alexis, my EP on hill
13:20
Speaker 1: In and I would just a during during Top Mom, okay,
13:25
Speaker 1: during Top Mom, I was so tired. I was up
13:27
Speaker 1: every morning rout four o'clock and would work untill about
13:30
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock at night. And my EP, executive producer, Dane,
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Speaker 1: who had been with me since Larry King, he had
13:37
Speaker 1: gotten all the staff a hotel right beside the courthouse.
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Speaker 1: And I said, Dane, I'm gonna pass out. I gotta
13:42
Speaker 1: go laid down, just for thirty minutes. So so I
13:46
Speaker 1: go to Dan's room. I don't have a room there
13:48
Speaker 1: because I'm with my children, you know, thirty minutes away.
13:51
Speaker 1: So I go in his room and he orders, of course,
13:54
Speaker 1: as was his custom, like all kinds of stuff on
13:57
Speaker 1: room service for him to eat, okay, and I threw
13:59
Speaker 1: myself off down on the bed. He put on a
14:03
Speaker 1: sweatsuit and was on the sofa eating, and I was
14:07
Speaker 1: passed out, sleeping for thirty minutes on the bed before
14:09
Speaker 1: I went back to the courthouse. Well, lo and behold, Alexis.
14:12
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I I said, I'm just gonna
14:15
Speaker 1: check my BlackBerry. Was the BlackBerry? Then? And I looked
14:18
Speaker 1: and I one minute before we think there's a verdict.
14:21
Speaker 1: I jumped up. I could hardly even think because I
14:24
Speaker 1: had dozed off for like ten minutes. I ran out
14:27
Speaker 1: the door. I didn't even look in the mirror, and
14:29
Speaker 1: I yelled back, Dane, put your pants on. I didn't
14:31
Speaker 1: get to the courthouse, and I ran down the hall
14:35
Speaker 1: to the elevator, and all these people were just looking
14:37
Speaker 1: at me, okay, and I just got on and just
14:39
Speaker 1: walked out. I mean, I don't know what they thought,
14:42
Speaker 1: but you know, the thought of it. To some people,
14:46
Speaker 1: it might sound crazy, but it's not crazy. It's not.
14:51
Speaker 1: That's the way it is when you're both away from
14:54
Speaker 1: your office or like this woman didn't have an office,
14:57
Speaker 1: and wine steins out of town and he's meeting her.
15:00
Speaker 1: So it's not unusual, Alexis, I'm sorry, go ahead. So
15:04
Speaker 1: she shows up to his hotel room, and he's wearing
15:06
Speaker 1: a robe and there's nothing underneath it, which I think
15:10
Speaker 1: Dean had clothes on when y'all had when you were
15:12
Speaker 1: in his hotel room. Dane always had clothes on. I
15:15
Speaker 1: have never seen go ahead, and I'm sure his wife
15:20
Speaker 1: and my husband will be very happy to hear that going.
15:22
Speaker 1: So he he grabs her and he starts molesting her.
15:26
Speaker 1: And this this is exactly what all of the other
15:30
Speaker 1: victims have said. They said that they show up, he's
15:32
Speaker 1: in a robe. You know, he's this huge guy, and
15:35
Speaker 1: so he's physically not only is he physically intimidating, he's
15:38
Speaker 1: the most powerful man in Hollywood. He has made careers
15:42
Speaker 1: of so many people, so everybody wants to work and
15:46
Speaker 1: destroy careers. If you believe Ashley Judd, who I happen
15:49
Speaker 1: to love, the entire Judd family, including her um. So
15:53
Speaker 1: when you say he molested her, what okay, alexis sorry,
15:56
Speaker 1: but this is Nancy Grace crime stories. You don't get
15:58
Speaker 1: off with sugarcoating it. What does she say happen? She
16:01
Speaker 1: said he grabbed her under his clothes, he grabbed her breasts,
16:03
Speaker 1: and he started fondling her, and she was terrified. Well
16:06
Speaker 1: there you go, Jeff Herman, Uh, the lawyer who is
16:10
Speaker 1: taking on Harvey Weinstein in two of these cases. Does
16:13
Speaker 1: that jibe with what she's told to you? Well? Yeah,
16:15
Speaker 1: I mean what what what? He starts with the massage
16:17
Speaker 1: and says she allegescies. She says, giving massage, come on,
16:20
Speaker 1: let's just let's will help us calm down and relax.
16:23
Speaker 1: And she resisted first and helped me calm down right,
16:28
Speaker 1: and he persists, and eventually she finds herself giving him
16:32
Speaker 1: a massage and then he kind of rolls over and
16:36
Speaker 1: he starts to masturbate, and he stands up and sort
16:40
Speaker 1: of masturbates in front of her. And then then the
16:43
Speaker 1: meeting in Jeff Herman, aren't you and Alexis tresh shut
16:46
Speaker 1: leaving something out, something called sodomy? Alexis, how did you
16:50
Speaker 1: leave that little fact? I did? I left out the
16:52
Speaker 1: fact he performed oral sex on her because she felt
16:55
Speaker 1: like she had to, Okay, Alexis, Jeff and Dr Bethany,
16:59
Speaker 1: let me explain aim. When it's not consentual, it's not
17:01
Speaker 1: oral sex, it's a krown. And this is what Dominique
17:05
Speaker 1: Hewitt just said. Listen to this alleged victim of Harvey Weinstein.
17:11
Speaker 1: In her own words, take us to the moment that
17:14
Speaker 1: you knew you were in trouble with him. Um. Well,
17:16
Speaker 1: I had met him in New York previously, um, and
17:20
Speaker 1: we had been in touch about an audition for a
17:22
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino film and I had submitted it to l
17:26
Speaker 1: A and then I ran back into him later. And
17:29
Speaker 1: that's when I met with him at the Peninsula when
17:32
Speaker 1: I had moved to the West Coast, so I really
17:35
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about the Peninsula, like if he was
17:39
Speaker 1: staying there. I thought we were meeting at the bar,
17:41
Speaker 1: which we did, and then he told me, Okay, we're
17:44
Speaker 1: going to my room now, after a few minutes of
17:46
Speaker 1: conversation about movie roles. So then we go up to
17:50
Speaker 1: the suite and I realized he kind of like has
17:52
Speaker 1: a place there, and he offers me champagne. And it
17:56
Speaker 1: was very similar to her story that he just is
18:00
Speaker 1: very dominant, persuasive, does not back down if you say no,
18:05
Speaker 1: and kind of just forced me into doing something I
18:07
Speaker 1: didn't want to do. I don't want to make you
18:10
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable, but you know, some some people here forced
18:13
Speaker 1: oral sex and they think how right, like, how it
18:17
Speaker 1: did he hold you down? Could you just help us
18:18
Speaker 1: understand that. I feel like it was a coercive thing. Um,
18:23
Speaker 1: just that he wouldn't let it up, that he that
18:27
Speaker 1: it was just going to happen no matter how hard
18:29
Speaker 1: I refused, And did you said? No? How did it end?
18:35
Speaker 1: Did you? How did you leave the hotel room? Um?
18:40
Speaker 1: It just that I left after pretty much he was
18:44
Speaker 1: done with whatever he intended to do. So I just
18:49
Speaker 1: left after. I don't know how to put it, Jeff.
18:53
Speaker 1: Let me ask Jeff, because he's there with you, your lawyer. Um,
18:56
Speaker 1: you filed, you filed the first lawsuit against them, and
18:59
Speaker 1: it's not Harvey and Togither, it's the Weinstein Company. And
19:02
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Well, first, let me ask ask you, Dominic.
19:04
Speaker 1: Do you did you ever report it to the Weinstein
19:07
Speaker 1: Company or to the board? I did not because I
19:10
Speaker 1: had heard a lot of stories about his behavior in
19:13
Speaker 1: the past, and I just you know, I was an
19:15
Speaker 1: actress looking for a break and he's a gatekeeper, and
19:18
Speaker 1: he I felt that he used his position, you know,
19:21
Speaker 1: to try to make me do something that is not
19:25
Speaker 1: in accord with how I usually behave. That was from
19:28
Speaker 1: NBC's Megan Kelly today, that's where Dominate was speaking. Hold on,
19:32
Speaker 1: we're gonna get right back to this, but I've got
19:34
Speaker 1: to thank my partner, and I want to thank my
19:36
Speaker 1: partner who was making today's program possible and allowing us
19:40
Speaker 1: to speak to Jeff Herman, plaintiffs lawyer who was taking
19:44
Speaker 1: on Harvey Weinstein. First of all, I want to thank
19:48
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Speaker 1: now back to the man who was taking on Harvey
21:21
Speaker 1: Weinstein in two of the alleged sex assaults by the
21:26
Speaker 1: Hollywood superstar Jeff Herman. Did you doubt her story and
21:32
Speaker 1: I'm talking about alleged victim dominq Hewitt at all. How
21:36
Speaker 1: many times have you met her? Have you looked her
21:38
Speaker 1: in the face and had her tell her story to
21:41
Speaker 1: you so you could gauge her demeanor and veracity or truthfulness. Yes, yes,
21:45
Speaker 1: I met with her and she told her story um
21:49
Speaker 1: to me several times. And then my investigators we go
21:53
Speaker 1: out and we try to verify and confirm every every fact,
21:56
Speaker 1: even the little ones, because we find those are really
21:58
Speaker 1: important to be able to verify. Um and um, you
22:03
Speaker 1: know her her story run true? And UM, what do
22:07
Speaker 1: you mean? What did you verify? What? What hotel was
22:10
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein at when this alligably happened at the Peninsula hotel?
22:15
Speaker 1: And wasn't that his typical hangout? And she she had
22:19
Speaker 1: um emails that were documenting the setting up of the meeting,
22:22
Speaker 1: And so there were things we were able to confirm
22:26
Speaker 1: on her story which are important. Why didn't she go
22:30
Speaker 1: to police? That's going to be a problem at trial
22:33
Speaker 1: that I'm sure you'll be able to handle well. As
22:35
Speaker 1: she tells it, Um, she felt guilty, and she still
22:38
Speaker 1: she still blamed herself and and said, you know, well,
22:41
Speaker 1: why didn't I leave the room? You know, why did
22:43
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm an adult? Why why did I
22:45
Speaker 1: stay there? Um? You know, one of the things she
22:47
Speaker 1: alleges is that he performed all sex on her, and
22:50
Speaker 1: and so she felt so guilty about that, even though
22:54
Speaker 1: she describes herself freezing, and she said, she said, no,
22:57
Speaker 1: you know, and she said, and how am I? What
22:59
Speaker 1: am I going to do take on this powerful man?
23:01
Speaker 1: There's nothing I could do in her mind, and so
23:04
Speaker 1: it wasn't until other victims came forward, and there's a
23:07
Speaker 1: sort of collective empowerment that she felt the strength that
23:10
Speaker 1: it would be safe for her to come for d
23:12
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, I don't want to analyze it to death.
23:14
Speaker 1: You're the high powered, uh superstar psychoanalyst out of l A.
23:20
Speaker 1: But I gotta tell you something, Bethany. I'm not a
23:22
Speaker 1: shrink like you. I don't have my degree in psycho analysis,
23:25
Speaker 1: but I know this. I've never dealt with a single
23:30
Speaker 1: rape victim. When I take that back, I had a
23:33
Speaker 1: couple of rape victims that were at home in their
23:35
Speaker 1: home when they were attacked, and I can think of
23:39
Speaker 1: one of them, one rape victim that was more angry
23:43
Speaker 1: than she was anything else. And um, but most rape
23:47
Speaker 1: victims that I have dealt with, almost all of them,
23:52
Speaker 1: always feel like, why didn't I feel in the mind?
23:56
Speaker 1: Why didn't I run? Why didn't I fight back? Why
23:58
Speaker 1: didn't I fight harder? Why was I there? Why did
24:01
Speaker 1: I have a drink? Why didn't I do something? Why
24:03
Speaker 1: did I I let myself get into that situation? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
24:09
Speaker 1: You know you can why until the cows come home
24:12
Speaker 1: and for you in l A, what that means is
24:14
Speaker 1: uh late in the day, that's when the cows. So
24:18
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is trust me, Bethany, I understand very
24:25
Speaker 1: well why sex assault victims don't come forward. I think
24:30
Speaker 1: every woman does. Explain it in your terms. First of all,
24:34
Speaker 1: I think the proper use of language, precise language, is
24:38
Speaker 1: so important in a case like this, and Nancy, the
24:40
Speaker 1: fact that you're using the term rape instead of sexual
24:43
Speaker 1: assault is critical. You have, really, you know, so many
24:47
Speaker 1: shows I've been on with you. You've changed our national
24:50
Speaker 1: dialogue through your language. And I like the fact that
24:52
Speaker 1: you're using the word rape today and if if you
24:55
Speaker 1: could continue to use it, it it would be great, because
24:57
Speaker 1: sexual harassment sounds like the cashier at the grocery store
25:00
Speaker 1: asking for your phone number, like an unwanted advance. That
25:03
Speaker 1: that's not what this is. This is rape. First of all. Secondly,
25:06
Speaker 1: I don't think I would use the word was it tonic, uh,
25:10
Speaker 1: freezing or something like that. I would use a different word.
25:13
Speaker 1: I would use just maybe fear phrase a fear freeze.
25:16
Speaker 1: I would use the word dissociate, which means you just
25:19
Speaker 1: good gravy bath, I said, talking regular people talk, which
25:23
Speaker 1: means it's a fear phrase. Could think about it, Jeff Herman,
25:26
Speaker 1: you might want to use that at trial. Fear phrase,
25:28
Speaker 1: not tonic whatever you said. It makes me think of
25:31
Speaker 1: Mary Poppins when they have to take castor oil. You know,
25:34
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say tonic whatever that was you said, Jeff,
25:37
Speaker 1: go ahead, beth But to dissociate me, to disconnect from yourself.
25:40
Speaker 1: And I think the other thing is that there's a
25:42
Speaker 1: human drive to please other people, and that is an
25:47
Speaker 1: overriding drive that all of us have. Anybody who's out
25:49
Speaker 1: of the implications, Bethany, look what he allegedly did, Ashley Judd,
25:55
Speaker 1: who I adore, Uh, look at that. How many other
26:00
Speaker 1: people have had their careers ruined because they spoke out?
26:05
Speaker 1: And believe me, Bethany, I understand not speaking out because
26:11
Speaker 1: you feel you have a bigger mission to accomplish. Or
26:16
Speaker 1: I'll get it. I totally get it. I mean you're thinking, Okay,
26:21
Speaker 1: I'll I'll endure this, I'll get through it. It'll be
26:24
Speaker 1: three minutes, five minutes tops, it'll be over, and then
26:28
Speaker 1: you know, I can leave this room and I can
26:30
Speaker 1: go about my life and I'll still be able to
26:32
Speaker 1: get a job when I walk out of this hotel,
26:34
Speaker 1: and then it's probably what they were thinking and then
26:37
Speaker 1: underestimating the psychological consequences to themselves, you know, saying well,
26:41
Speaker 1: I'll get through this, it'll be three minutes, five minutes,
26:44
Speaker 1: and then walking out of there and saying that was
26:46
Speaker 1: a really catastrophic three minutes or five minutes. I think
26:50
Speaker 1: there's an element of shock too. I mean, you go
26:52
Speaker 1: go to the hotel room, Um, his robe is open.
26:56
Speaker 1: I mean I keep having a visual every time some
27:00
Speaker 1: he mentioned that. I want to get that out of
27:01
Speaker 1: my mind. But when you look at the Diagnostic and
27:06
Speaker 1: Statistical Manual of mental disorders, there are five different perversions.
27:11
Speaker 1: There's pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, frauderism, and sadism. And so this
27:20
Speaker 1: was an incredibly perverse you know, opening up his robes
27:23
Speaker 1: so the women could see him. He's very much an exhibitionist.
27:26
Speaker 1: I also think of power rapists. You know, they are
27:29
Speaker 1: very specific hypologies in terms of sexual offending, and the
27:33
Speaker 1: power rapist is the one who not only wants to
27:35
Speaker 1: have power over the victim, but is sociopathic and attempts
27:39
Speaker 1: to have power over people in every aspect. Of his life,
27:43
Speaker 1: and Harvey Weinstein definitely falls into that category where he's
27:47
Speaker 1: not just an offender in one area, he's an offender
27:50
Speaker 1: in multiple areas. So I think I couldn't see a
27:53
Speaker 1: lot of people who maybe we're not sexual abuse victims
27:56
Speaker 1: UM specifically, but actually harassment victims in the workplace with him,
28:01
Speaker 1: you know, with me. Jeff Herman, the lawyer who was
28:04
Speaker 1: taking on Harvey Weinstein, I want to ask you, Jeff,
28:09
Speaker 1: you claim that you are very interested in taking Weinstein's brother,
28:14
Speaker 1: Bob Weinstein's deposition as well as other Weinstein Company employees
28:21
Speaker 1: to see who knew what and when? In other words,
28:24
Speaker 1: were other people within the Weinstein company complicit? Did they,
28:29
Speaker 1: in my world, aid and abet him raping or sodomizing
28:34
Speaker 1: unsuspecting women? Explain your legal theory, Jeff Hermer. Yeah. In fact,
28:39
Speaker 1: the second case that I filed for Katie and Noble
28:41
Speaker 1: actually also sued Bob Weinstein and the Weinstein Company for
28:46
Speaker 1: exactly that aiding and abetting UM what I considered to
28:50
Speaker 1: be a violation of the federal sex trafficking crimes in
28:53
Speaker 1: that they knew, we alleged that Harvey was using his
28:57
Speaker 1: position of power for decades to to get women alone,
29:03
Speaker 1: sometimes in his hotel room, where he would then coerce
29:06
Speaker 1: them and then use physical force to get these women
29:09
Speaker 1: to engage in sexual behavior with him. Um, at the
29:13
Speaker 1: same time dangling help in their career, which in which
29:18
Speaker 1: in essence is sort of providing them with some sort
29:21
Speaker 1: of benefit. Um. And because of that, we think that
29:24
Speaker 1: they're liable under these these sex trafficking laws. And so
29:27
Speaker 1: with Bob there's allegations that he even was paying for
29:30
Speaker 1: some settlements. And you know, there's been settlements and allegations
29:33
Speaker 1: going back for decades, even before there was the Weinstein Company,
29:37
Speaker 1: there was Mirramax, and um, we believe that he knew
29:40
Speaker 1: it back then. Jeff, who is your other client? So
29:44
Speaker 1: the other client is Katie and Noble, who is a
29:48
Speaker 1: young British actress who met Harvey Weinstein at the Bath
29:52
Speaker 1: Awards in London and Harvey came over to her said
29:57
Speaker 1: he loved her look, he was going to help in
29:59
Speaker 1: her career, and then immediately put her in touch with
30:02
Speaker 1: people in his company that she followed up with them
30:06
Speaker 1: and sent him over a film reel and then ran
30:09
Speaker 1: into Harvey again at the Kem Film Festival and She
30:12
Speaker 1: alleges there that Harvey said, oh, I haven't had a
30:14
Speaker 1: chance to see the film reel. Let's go up to
30:17
Speaker 1: my room and look at it, which he did. But interestingly,
30:20
Speaker 1: when they get up to the room, he calls what
30:22
Speaker 1: he claimed he to be one of his producers, and
30:25
Speaker 1: he puts the producer on the phone with Katie and
30:27
Speaker 1: the producer says to her, listen, Harvey is going to
30:30
Speaker 1: take care of you. Just do whatever he wants. And
30:32
Speaker 1: she's not really sure what he's talking about, but to
30:35
Speaker 1: hang up the phone. They start watching the film reel,
30:38
Speaker 1: and then Harvey says to her, listen, I just really
30:41
Speaker 1: want you to like me, and he starts to touch her.
30:43
Speaker 1: She says no, he she walks away, he grabs her.
30:48
Speaker 1: She alleges he drives her into the bathroom, where he
30:51
Speaker 1: puts her in front of the mirror, and then from behind,
30:53
Speaker 1: while he's watching himself do this, fondles her breast and
30:57
Speaker 1: then takes out his penis and puts her hand and
31:00
Speaker 1: and holds it on her penis and masturbates himself while
31:03
Speaker 1: he's watching this in the mirror. I'm just a little confused.
31:06
Speaker 1: I feel like Alice in wonderland where everything doesn't fit anymore.
31:10
Speaker 1: Why aren't their criminal charges? I want you to listen
31:15
Speaker 1: to this. A beautiful young actress, she's just absolutely gorgeous.
31:20
Speaker 1: Um katiean Noble. Here she is speaking out saying quote
31:24
Speaker 1: what he's done. It just ruins people's lives. Then I
31:29
Speaker 1: went to Cannes in May two thousand and fourteen, and
31:33
Speaker 1: whilst I was there, Harvey Weinstein approached me in the
31:38
Speaker 1: majestics in the lobby. It was quite forceful in the
31:42
Speaker 1: sense of telling me to relax, and I think then
31:47
Speaker 1: I started to like get a little bit confused. He
31:53
Speaker 1: took hold of me and pretty much forced me to
31:58
Speaker 1: walk with him to the bil room where he stood
32:01
Speaker 1: me in front of the mirror and he stood behind
32:05
Speaker 1: me and I was like, what are you doing, and
32:09
Speaker 1: like and he's like touching me, robbing me, and he's like,
32:11
Speaker 1: just relax and I'm telling him to stop, and he
32:15
Speaker 1: would raise his voice, but at the same time he
32:17
Speaker 1: kept reassuring me that everything's going to be okay. Katie
32:21
Speaker 1: and Noble is a British model and aspiring actress who
32:26
Speaker 1: was coming forward now over an alleged assault, and she
32:30
Speaker 1: speaks through tears, saying what he's done ruins people's life.
32:36
Speaker 1: She's doing not only Weinstein, but his brother Bob Weinstein
32:41
Speaker 1: and the Weinstein Company, claiming they violated U sex trafficking
32:46
Speaker 1: laws when the high profile Hollywood producer allegedly assaults her
32:51
Speaker 1: brutally in two thousand and fourteen. Now this action has
32:55
Speaker 1: been filed in the District Court in Manhattan. I'm just
32:58
Speaker 1: a little confused about thing, Jeff Herman, with, as Alexis
33:02
Speaker 1: pointed out, now nearly one hundred women claiming that he
33:08
Speaker 1: sexually attacked them, why aren't there criminal charges? Two thousand fourteen. Now,
33:15
Speaker 1: her incident happened in France, so I understand why we
33:18
Speaker 1: cannot pursue him criminally for that one only civilly under
33:23
Speaker 1: you know the age old case international shoe, which everybody
33:28
Speaker 1: learns on day one in the civil procedure. So we
33:32
Speaker 1: can sue him civilly here in the US, as you
33:34
Speaker 1: are doing, because he is sufficiently connected to the US.
33:38
Speaker 1: But in all the other cases, Jeff, why aren't there
33:42
Speaker 1: criminal charges? Jeff Herman? Well, so interestingly, Nancy, in two
33:46
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Congress actually amended this um, this federal
33:49
Speaker 1: sex Trafficking Statute and gave the US courts jurisdiction for
33:53
Speaker 1: sexual assaults like this that take place in foreign countries.
33:56
Speaker 1: And so um, you know, we don't make that decision,
33:59
Speaker 1: but Katian hasn't up with the U S authorities. Um.
34:02
Speaker 1: And when she was in New York and she has
34:03
Speaker 1: told her a story. Now, you're right, you're absolutely right.
34:05
Speaker 1: I was thinking about a typical rape case that would
34:08
Speaker 1: be held in state court. But you're absolutely right. Congress
34:11
Speaker 1: did that. The laws are on the book. So what's
34:13
Speaker 1: the hold up. It's within the statute of limitations. Her
34:16
Speaker 1: allegations are two thousand fourteen, So what's the hold up? Jeff? Well,
34:20
Speaker 1: she's made the report and we trust that they're doing
34:23
Speaker 1: a proper investigation. And so you know that's once once
34:27
Speaker 1: the victim makes the report, you know she's sort of
34:29
Speaker 1: out of it, and so we're waiting to see um.
34:31
Speaker 1: In the meantime, you know, she's pursuing her her right
34:35
Speaker 1: to a civil case. And I'll tell you her story
34:38
Speaker 1: about it was really incredible to me because she said
34:40
Speaker 1: to me she had finally resolved it in her own
34:43
Speaker 1: mind and earlier this year that there was nothing she
34:46
Speaker 1: could do she just decided that it was time to
34:49
Speaker 1: try to put it behind her. She actually was so
34:51
Speaker 1: traumatized she attempted suicide um back when this first happened
34:56
Speaker 1: and her life flipped upside down and was trying to
35:00
Speaker 1: put the pizzas back together. And then she says, you know,
35:03
Speaker 1: she starts to hear other victims coming forward, and so
35:06
Speaker 1: when she contacted me, she felt it was surreal that
35:09
Speaker 1: she might actually have a voice and that there might
35:11
Speaker 1: finally be some justice telling her story like she did
35:15
Speaker 1: um when we when we did the press conference, she said,
35:19
Speaker 1: was freedom in her mind and that for the first
35:22
Speaker 1: time she felt as though her life actually could move forward.
35:26
Speaker 1: And so this this was really, I think, a tremendous,
35:30
Speaker 1: you know, milestone in this young woman's life, and I
35:32
Speaker 1: was so happy to see that for her. She says
35:34
Speaker 1: that Weinstein used Naomi Campbell and of all people, Oprah Winfrey,
35:41
Speaker 1: who is like beloved to trick her. Now, don't think
35:46
Speaker 1: Naomi Campbell and Oprah Winfrey had anything to do with
35:49
Speaker 1: any of this, but what she saw was this alleged
35:54
Speaker 1: victim Katian saw Weinstein hanging out with Naomi Campbell and
36:01
Speaker 1: had Oprah Winfrey near him, and she thought, wow, you
36:08
Speaker 1: know it must be legit. I mean, of course, somebody
36:13
Speaker 1: like Weinstein would never ever attack someone in power that
36:19
Speaker 1: could actually retaliate. Oh No, his victims are people that
36:25
Speaker 1: he believed nobody would ever listen to. That's the way
36:32
Speaker 1: he chose his victims. I want to pause very quickly
36:36
Speaker 1: and thank our partner making our program today possible as
36:41
Speaker 1: we investigate the allegations against Harvey Weinstein, including the plaintiffs
36:46
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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, l A psycho analyst, Dr Bethany jeff
40:25
Speaker 1: Herman was telling us about the alleged victim Kadian and
40:31
Speaker 1: says that she attempted suicide. I was thinking about that
40:34
Speaker 1: when he said that, why is that this not that
40:37
Speaker 1: she come to suicide? I would think that it's not
40:41
Speaker 1: just the rape itself, but it's the general betrayal. If
40:45
Speaker 1: you said you were in Alexis was reporting on, he
40:49
Speaker 1: got his assistance to set her up, you know, and
40:52
Speaker 1: to set all these multiple victims up. So it's betrayal
40:56
Speaker 1: on multiple levels. And then not being able to talk
40:59
Speaker 1: to anybody of out it, I think is a very
41:02
Speaker 1: profound um negative consequence of all of this not being
41:06
Speaker 1: able to go forward. Whenever a rape occurs, it's not
41:10
Speaker 1: just the rape itself that causes the trauma. There's cumulative
41:14
Speaker 1: trauma that goes on and on and and part of
41:16
Speaker 1: the trauma is the narrative that the victim weave in
41:20
Speaker 1: her own mind about what happened to her. So this
41:23
Speaker 1: may have set her up to feel like a victim
41:25
Speaker 1: in multiple areas of her life. To feel it excuse me,
41:28
Speaker 1: a loss of volition, a loss of control, a loss
41:32
Speaker 1: of self esteem, and you know, to to suicide or
41:37
Speaker 1: to make a suicide attempt. There's two types of suicide attempts,
41:40
Speaker 1: one which the person really means to kill themselves, the
41:43
Speaker 1: other in which just the fantasy of not being on
41:46
Speaker 1: this earth anymore is a profound relief. And I think
41:49
Speaker 1: sometimes a molestation and abuse victims fall into that second
41:53
Speaker 1: category where they think, boy, if I'm not on this
41:56
Speaker 1: earth anymore, I'm just not going to have to think
41:58
Speaker 1: about all these terrible things that happened to me. Some
42:00
Speaker 1: victims that have attempted suicide have told me that they
42:04
Speaker 1: just wanted to end everything and it would be better
42:07
Speaker 1: to just sleep forever than to continue to go through
42:11
Speaker 1: the mental and emotional anguish that they're in after a
42:16
Speaker 1: violent crime. You know, I want to talk to you
42:18
Speaker 1: also about the arrogance, the feeling Weinstein must have had,
42:25
Speaker 1: if these allegations are true, to think that it's okay.
42:29
Speaker 1: And just for instance, in Kadian's case, he just seemed
42:35
Speaker 1: he forced her to masturbate him, according to her, and
42:40
Speaker 1: just stepped over the pool of ejaculating the floor, just
42:44
Speaker 1: stepped over it and walked out. M m. And she's
42:47
Speaker 1: just standing there. Made the arrogance of that moment, and
42:51
Speaker 1: then to go on to the next woman, and the
42:53
Speaker 1: next woman and the next woman. I mean, it just
42:55
Speaker 1: seems like it never ends, you know, Nancy. Every time
42:59
Speaker 1: I go on your show, I reread all of the
43:02
Speaker 1: offender typologies just so I really understand it. And one
43:06
Speaker 1: of the things that jumps out at me again and again,
43:08
Speaker 1: and it reminds me of Harvey Weinstein, is that this
43:12
Speaker 1: type of sex offender and rapists. Let's just use the
43:15
Speaker 1: accurate language. This type of rapist imagines that the woman
43:19
Speaker 1: wants him has a personality disorder, is sociopathic, and it's
43:25
Speaker 1: that sociopathy that informs how he carries out the crime.
43:28
Speaker 1: In other words, sociopaths are arrogant. They feel that they're
43:32
Speaker 1: above the law. They have no conscience about hurting others.
43:36
Speaker 1: Their callous, They have callous disregard for the rights and
43:39
Speaker 1: safety of others. They imagine that they're wanted, and they
43:43
Speaker 1: have a notorious lack of insight into what goes on
43:46
Speaker 1: in the minds of others. And Nancy, I actually treat
43:49
Speaker 1: a fair amount of um sex addicts in my office,
43:53
Speaker 1: people who have sex addiction. And one of the notorious
43:56
Speaker 1: features of sex addiction, even if they're not astenders, they're
44:00
Speaker 1: sexually addicted, is that they are never able to describe
44:04
Speaker 1: what goes on in the mind of the other person,
44:06
Speaker 1: whether it's somebody they meet casually in afar or on
44:08
Speaker 1: the street or whatever, and they'll say things like, well,
44:12
Speaker 1: you know that that person, you know, he was sweating,
44:15
Speaker 1: or she was sweating, or she you know, she looked
44:17
Speaker 1: kind of nervous. And I'll say, well, what do you
44:19
Speaker 1: think what's going on in that person's mind? They are
44:22
Speaker 1: never ever able to tell me. The sexualist excitement they
44:27
Speaker 1: wish to offend, getting off at other people's expense takes
44:31
Speaker 1: over every part of their life, and so they have
44:34
Speaker 1: no idea of what's going on in the victims. I
44:37
Speaker 1: wonder how that I know just just the height of arrogance, Alexis,
44:44
Speaker 1: it doesn't end with these ladies. Now there is a
44:46
Speaker 1: brand new case, Alexa Sreschick joining me from writer online
44:51
Speaker 1: dot Com that Jeff Herman is involved in. It's the
44:54
Speaker 1: Brian Singer lawsuit. What can you tell me about that, Alexis.
44:59
Speaker 1: A man has accused Brian Singer, the famous famous director
45:02
Speaker 1: of X Men, of assaulting him in two thousand three.
45:06
Speaker 1: He said he was on a boat with him in Seattle,
45:08
Speaker 1: famous director, and Mr Singer offered to give him a
45:12
Speaker 1: tour of the yacht, and so of course he went
45:13
Speaker 1: with him. They went around, he went in the bedroom
45:16
Speaker 1: of the yacht and Mr Singer asked him for sex.
45:21
Speaker 1: He said, no, absolutely not, And he says that he
45:25
Speaker 1: Brian grabbed him and sexually assaulted him and forced himself
45:28
Speaker 1: upon him. Jeff, how are you involved in this case
45:31
Speaker 1: as well? Right? So, I represent this young man, Caesar
45:36
Speaker 1: Sanchez Bousman UM in a civil lawsuit that we filed
45:40
Speaker 1: actually in UM the state of Washington against Brian Singer
45:44
Speaker 1: for the assault. Now, explain to me the charges that
45:47
Speaker 1: you have filed specifically, Well, it's it's essentially a civil
45:51
Speaker 1: lawsuit for we alleged the assault and battery UM against
45:56
Speaker 1: against Caesar now and this particular case the victims. Caesar
46:00
Speaker 1: Sanchez Guzman files this lawsuit and claimed he didn't come
46:04
Speaker 1: forward at the age of just seventeen because he did
46:08
Speaker 1: not want to be outed as gay and he was
46:13
Speaker 1: distraught about other GOT people in his high school bullying
46:20
Speaker 1: him and mocking him and um being cruel to him
46:25
Speaker 1: because he would have been outed as gay. So is
46:30
Speaker 1: that your understanding of it, Jeff Herman why he didn't
46:32
Speaker 1: come forward at the time. UM. In fact, he following
46:36
Speaker 1: the incident, he confided in her friend UM, a woman,
46:39
Speaker 1: and h we be spoken her and she confirms that
46:42
Speaker 1: she told him to go to the police, but he
46:44
Speaker 1: just he says, he felt that it would just be
46:47
Speaker 1: so destructive. He comes from a very religious Pentecostal family, um,
46:51
Speaker 1: and there's no way that he felt he could tell
46:54
Speaker 1: them that he was gay. They would not understand, and
46:56
Speaker 1: so he just had kept us to himself. Singer's lawyer
47:00
Speaker 1: claims that Caesar quote did not remember the incident from
47:04
Speaker 1: two thousand three until now. Why is Singer's lawyer saying that,
47:09
Speaker 1: I have no idea where that comes from. He's never
47:11
Speaker 1: said that because he didn't come forward until now. I
47:14
Speaker 1: have no idea what he's trying to say. I don't
47:17
Speaker 1: know where that comes from. I saw that. Um. That's
47:20
Speaker 1: that's just now with Caesar's allegend, he's never he's never
47:22
Speaker 1: maintained that he's always remembered. It. The the issue for
47:26
Speaker 1: Caesar's he's really never connected all the things he's going
47:29
Speaker 1: through in his life, his damages, until into fairly recently.
47:33
Speaker 1: And I guess with all the Weinstein, the flood of
47:35
Speaker 1: allegations against Weinstein, that flood is making other people who
47:40
Speaker 1: have been victimized come forward and feel that they can
47:44
Speaker 1: come forward safely. I mean, you know, we think we're
47:48
Speaker 1: so enlightened and advanced, but gay teens, bisexual teens are
47:55
Speaker 1: still tortured, bullied, mocked, made fun of, and worse and worse,
48:04
Speaker 1: and I can understand why he didn't want anyone to know.
48:07
Speaker 1: Grown men don't want anyone to know because of they
48:12
Speaker 1: the fear they have of the repercussion. They don't want
48:14
Speaker 1: their family to know, there their religious cohorts, their church,
48:18
Speaker 1: or their synagogue. They don't want anyone to know. Maybe
48:20
Speaker 1: they think they'll lose a job because of it. And
48:24
Speaker 1: you know what, people that claim that that is a sin,
48:27
Speaker 1: you know that is between that person and God. You
48:31
Speaker 1: know that. I think everybody better worry about keeping their
48:35
Speaker 1: own life in the middle of the road and not
48:38
Speaker 1: worry about who else is gonna be in trouble in
48:41
Speaker 1: the next life. Okay, let's just try to focus on ourselves.
48:45
Speaker 1: There's plenty we can do to make ourselves better people
48:49
Speaker 1: than to attack others of some perceived offense. If this
48:56
Speaker 1: allegation is true, I am just so distraught, alexis Um.
49:00
Speaker 1: I think about these Weinstein alleged victims that didn't come
49:04
Speaker 1: forward because they thought they'd lose their job or their
49:06
Speaker 1: livelihood then never work again. I think about this young guy,
49:10
Speaker 1: you know, seventeen at the time, that didn't want his
49:13
Speaker 1: family to know he was gay, didn't want his friends
49:17
Speaker 1: at school to know it was afraid to live his life. Uh.
49:22
Speaker 1: It just it breaks my heart to think what victims
49:26
Speaker 1: go through each and every day. It's it's heartbreaking, Alexis Well.
49:33
Speaker 1: That's why with Harvey Weinstein, like the floodgates have been opened,
49:36
Speaker 1: and so many people that have hidden these stories for
49:39
Speaker 1: decades are coming out. They because they finally feel that
49:42
Speaker 1: perhaps even if they don't see victory in court, they
49:49
Speaker 1: are seen victory in their own personal lives because people
49:52
Speaker 1: are saying, we believe you, we support you, and we
49:55
Speaker 1: understand that you are a victim. That's what That's what
49:57
Speaker 1: so many of these victims have said that they're coming
49:59
Speaker 1: forward because I just want people to know that to
50:01
Speaker 1: happen to them and that that they were not at fault.
50:05
Speaker 1: And so all of these victims are saying it wasn't
50:06
Speaker 1: my fault. I thought it was my fault. They said
50:08
Speaker 1: for years, I wanted a movie role, I wanted to
50:11
Speaker 1: be successful in my career, and this person was the
50:14
Speaker 1: president of the industry, for lack of a better word,
50:17
Speaker 1: a king. If you mind now, I'm going to put
50:19
Speaker 1: yet another tough question to Jeff Herman. Jeff Herman Uh,
50:23
Speaker 1: the Hollywood Reporter is reporting that in the past you
50:28
Speaker 1: we're actually accused of sex assault. Explain, well, you know,
50:35
Speaker 1: I am obviously sensitive to the allegations and impact that
50:40
Speaker 1: they can have on people, and I've dedicated my career
50:42
Speaker 1: now to representing victims of sexual abuse. Um, and you
50:46
Speaker 1: know I'm not going to criticize this woman. You know what, Jeff,
50:50
Speaker 1: It has been made very public in the Hollywood Reporter article.
50:54
Speaker 1: Jeff Herman, the go to lawyer for Hollywood sex abuse claims,
50:58
Speaker 1: was once accused of rape. That is the banner, the
51:02
Speaker 1: headline in this Hollywood Reporter piece. I'm asking him about
51:07
Speaker 1: it now, and he refuses to comment on the accuser.
51:13
Speaker 1: Jeff Herman, my focus today is on justice, and whatever
51:21
Speaker 1: the claim is against you, I want the truth to
51:27
Speaker 1: be known in that claim. And as far as Harvey
51:31
Speaker 1: Weinstein goes, same thing. I want the truth to be
51:37
Speaker 1: known in all of those cases. Whether it makes the
51:42
Speaker 1: courthouse all down around us, let the truth be known
51:49
Speaker 1: in justice. Fine a way. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, Simmy Hawk,
51:55
Speaker 1: goodbye friend.