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They Had ONE Bullet Left - Inside the Beltway Sniper Arrest (Exclusive Firsthand Account) · Heroes Behind the Badge

0:00
Dave Reichenbaugh: The public is scared to death.
0:01
The public is calling in tag numbers of every white van from here to Mississippi.
0:08
The public will help us find this guy.
0:10
All we gotta do is release it and within three minutes the phone rings and it's
0:16
a guy in the arrest area in Frederick County right at the top of the South
0:21
Mountain, the the I-70 Rest area that says that car is in the rest area.
0:27
I told them we don't have one weapon between us to fight back with and
0:33
there's a good chance that he'll kill three of us before we even
0:36
are, are, able to get up to the car.
0:39
So there was basically a very quiet standoff from, I wanna say 11:45 PM
0:46
until about four in the morning when we finally got the assets together.
1:02
Dennis Collins: 23 days in late 2002.
1:04
Okay.
1:05
The Capital Beltway, the Washington DC, Northern Virginia, Maryland area,
1:11
lived under a kind of fear that, thank God most of us never have experienced.
1:16
That violence, that reign of terror, that was random.
1:20
That was invisible.
1:22
That was unpredictable.
1:24
I mean, you had people zigzagging when they went to get gas and
1:27
crouching down, uh, to get gas.
1:29
They had friends standing guard while they did their errands.
1:32
I mean, the schools got closed.
1:35
No place felt safe to the public.
1:38
The rules of, you know, the rules of engagement or the rules of protection,
1:43
they just didn't apply anymore.
1:45
So I am proud today to welcome our guest, Dave Reichenbaugh.
1:51
Dave is a retired Maryland state police lieutenant, and during the
1:55
Beltway sniper investigation served as the on-scene commander during the
2:01
actual capture of the two people, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo.
2:07
So this man has the inside scoop.
2:15
Dave Reichenbaugh: Once, once it all came together, as and I've said in my
2:21
book, I've said it just about everywhere I've ever spoken, this was the most
2:26
incredible group of police officers, a more than a thousand that I ever had
2:31
the honor to work with and be a part of.
2:35
We were all singularly focused.
2:37
It didn't matter what your badge said or what your shoulder patch
2:40
said, we're all on one team.
2:43
And that's sort of where all of a sudden it broke down and, the old
2:48
fed versus state and local came in.
2:53
There was a real disagreement as to, okay, we've, we know what we're looking for.
2:57
We've got a tag number, we've got a car.
3:00
We know who's in the car.
3:02
What do we do with it?
3:03
Do we release it?
3:05
Do we keep it close in?
3:07
Try to find them ourselves.
3:09
And that's where the argument came in.
3:11
And of course, the, the, federal government was more on the line of,
3:15
Hey, let's keep this close to the vest, which, if you've worked with federal
3:20
agents, that's the way they're trained.
3:22
And I, get that, and there's valid reasons sometimes to do that.
3:29
As a state officer, and I was in on this meeting, and I, as luck would
3:33
have it, because this was at night, I was the highest ranking state Maryland
3:39
State police trooper in the room.
3:41
My argument was, is listen, public is calling in tag numbers of every
3:46
white van from here to Mississippi.
3:50
The public will help us find this guy.
3:52
All we gotta do is release it.
3:57
Of course there was a philosophical argument, what to do with that.
4:03
I made a phone call to Colonel, Mitchell and Colonel Mitchell agreed with me.
4:10
It, governor got involved and the decision was made.
4:14
Well, we don't care what the feds do, we're releasing it,
4:17
releasing the information to the public, and it got released.
4:25
In fact I was part of releasing that information and then I
4:29
Craig Floyd: License plate number.
4:31
Dave Reichenbaugh: Yeah.
4:31
Craig Floyd: Right.
4:32
Dave Reichenbaugh: Description.
4:34
Pretty much everything that we had.
4:36
Craig Floyd: Okay.
4:38
Dave Reichenbaugh: And at that point I was sorta persona non grata at the,
4:43
uh, task force office at that point.
4:47
and the colonel said, you've been up for several days.
4:50
Go home.
4:51
Home for me was Frederick County at that time, and I started up the road, and
5:00
this is probably 11, 11:30 at night.
5:02
By this time.
5:03
I get a call from the duty officer at the Frederick Barracks and he asked me
5:09
to go to the our so-called confidential channel, which wasn't confidential.
5:14
It was just an off the wall channel that nobody ever listened to.
5:18
And he told me, Hey, we got.
5:20
It came out on WFMD radio and we're sitting here listening to it and within
5:27
three minutes the phone rings and it's a guy in the rest area in Frederick
5:35
County, right at the top of the South Mountain, the the I-70 REST area that
5:40
says that car is in the rest area.
5:45
What do you wanna do?
5:47
I said, well send everybody you got.
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And he said, well, sir, he said, counting you, that would be two of us, because
5:57
everybody else is in Montgomery County.
6:00
So that's how I wound up getting up there.
6:03
I was about number three, maybe four, four, officer up there.
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And I happened to, because I was a lieutenant, I wound up being
6:14
in charge of, of the thing.
6:15
And, and, uh, I very quickly made the, the decision, 'cause we kicked it around.
6:20
The four of us kicked it around, Hey, let's just go in and storm that place.
6:27
And having known the case and that they were prone to hide the rifle in the
6:32
woods, my thought process was, is okay if I'm them, if I'm the bad guy, I'm
6:39
taking turns one sleeping in the car.
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One in the woods on Overwatch and I told them we don't have one weapon between us
6:51
to fight back with.
6:54
and there's a good chance that he'll kill three of us
6:59
before we even are, are able to get up to the car.
7:03
Hmm.
7:05
Because you gotta remember, this was the middle of the night.
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This was a rest area.
7:08
And at that time, those rest areas there, yeah, there was lights here and there, but
7:13
very dark, heavily wooded, mountainside.
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And I thought, well, all right, we can prevent anybody from going in and we
7:24
can prevent anybody from coming out.
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We have enough people to do that.
7:28
Let's do that and let's hold our ground and call for the cavalry.
7:32
So there was basically a very quiet standoff from, I wanna say 11:45 PM
7:40
until about four in the morning when we finally got the assets together and the
7:47
SWAT teams to be able to move in and take 'em 'cause my fear was if someone's,
7:54
they obviously could shoot based on.
7:57
The horrible results that we had all seen.
8:01
and you know, as any, as any commander would,
8:06
God knows, I was not going to unnecessarily risk anybody under
8:10
my command when we could stand our ground and move when we were
8:16
ready and not force the issue.
8:19
And that's how that all.
8:20
Bill Erfurth: So how, how did it go down Dave?
8:23
Like, uh, were they both in the car?
8:25
Were they armed at the time?
8:26
Yes.
8:26
Were they sleeping?
8:27
How did it happen?
8:28
Dave Reichenbaugh: As it turns out, and as I mentioned before,
8:31
and I don't mind calling 'em, they were morons just as we suspected.
8:37
it turns out they were both fast asleep in that car.
8:45
and we had the, civilian that had called us.
8:50
Reported the car, they stayed in the rest area and they were sort of my
8:56
eyes, if you will, inside the rest area.
9:00
And certainly I told 'em, you stay in that vehicle and you just talk to me.
9:05
If you see moving around that vehicle, I wanna know about it.
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And so I'm on one cell phone.
9:12
Now you gotta remember, this is a little bit ancient technology
9:15
compared to what we have now.
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I had.
9:19
One cell phone that I'm, I'm talking to our witness, our
9:26
civilian, and that was being relayed through the Frederick Barracks.
9:31
I had another cell cell phone that I was talking to, the joint operations
9:36
Center in Montgomery County and a police radio that I'm trying to quietly.
9:44
Manage and, and get the people where I wanted them to, be.
9:48
So now that I think about it, that was forever, but it seemed like it
9:55
wasn't at the time because you're so laser focused on number one.
10:01
I, never thought during this thing that we were gonna get out of
10:06
there without taking casualties.
10:08
And, and of course that's any police commander's worst nightmare is, is,
10:17
you know, and if I'd have ordered those troopers in there, they would've said,
10:21
yes, sir. Let's go without a doubt.
10:23
And I know that, and it was sort of a little bit of a
10:26
strain, sort of like holding the canine back for his own safety.
10:34
So there was a little bit of that.
10:38
but as it went down, the, joint SWAT team, and that's, you know, the, the Maryland
10:45
State Police team is called state,
10:48
special tactical assault team element.
10:52
We had elements of Montgomery County SWAT team.
10:55
We also had FBI, so they had been.
10:58
A team practicing jointly during this whole operation, just suspecting
11:04
that whenever we did find him, this was going to be a shootout.
11:08
We all expected it.
11:13
they were able to infiltrate the woods and there was some technology that I
11:18
still will not talk about that was used,
11:23
to sort of.
11:25
Determine.
11:26
Okay, there's two warm bodies in that car.
11:30
The woods were appeared to be clear, they were able to move
11:36
in, walk up, smash a window out, flash, bang, and out they came.
11:44
And I don't believe either of them touched the ground as they
11:49
were brought out through windows.
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Didn't bother opening the door.
11:54
They were brought out through windows and quickly subdued without firing a shot.
12:03
We didn't hurt the bad guys.
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None of the good guys got hurt.
12:07
It really turned out to be a textbook operation and as I understand it,
12:14
that's still used in in training for various assault teams or
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SWAT teams around the country.
12:22
The way that happened and the way it went down,
12:26
you know, you prepare for the absolute worst and you hope for the best.
12:30
Well, by God, it, it turned out perfect.
12:33
It couldn't have been any better.
12:34
Bill Erfurth: So the, the, the arrest was made without incident.
12:37
I am guessing that the weapons were in the vehicle.
12:40
Did the subjects make any statements?
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What, did they say after the fact?
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Dave Reichenbaugh: Now you have to remember there was still.
12:49
I'm going to say 15% of the doubt whether we had the right people or
12:52
not, because it came together so quickly and there really wasn't time
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to go back and check and recheck.
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You know how investigations do this was, Hey, this is an active
13:05
situation, let's move and we did.
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So there's still that 15% doubt.
13:14
There was no weapons obviously in.
13:18
Looking in the car.
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and again, that was, I, I turned from incident commander to now I
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gotta protect the evidence all in the course of a half a second because
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as you can imagine, the police officers wanted to tear the car apart.
13:35
Nope.
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Everybody out of the damn car we're getting a search warrant.
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Muhammad, who was later executed by the state of Virginia.
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Was terrified.
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He soiled himself.
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he very much looked like the defeated suspect that us and law
14:00
enforcement know when you got him.
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And the bad guy knows he is gotten and it's that,
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oh shit, they got me.
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I'm done.
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Look on his face, Malvo on the other hand.
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and I was within six to eight feet of him, and we had him, of course, handcuffed
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to the rear sitting, cross-legged on the pavement, he had, and the best way I can
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describe it is if you've ever watched, um, any of the Discovery Shark Week
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programs, they always show the white shark and all you see is the, the black eye.
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That was Malvo.
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I mean, his eyes were cold black.
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There was no soul looking back at us.
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And there was no doubt in my mind that if he would've had the chance, he
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would've tried to kill every one of us.
15:01
I love dogs.
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I love police dogs.
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Their handlers hated me because I always brought 'em all kinds
15:08
of treats and stuff, which the handlers would get rather irritated.
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But, um, Rich Hoffenberg, God rest his soul.
15:16
He has since left us.
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Um, he had his state police canine and that that dog was 110 pound
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German Shepherd, and he was riled up.
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And the slobber, the teeth bearing.
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He was holding him back, I'm telling you, six inches from that kid's face.
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You tell me what human being doesn't react to that there was no reaction
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and the less reaction, more pissed off that dog got.
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And I also had, uh, trooper Dragovich, who was a rather very
16:01
large Maryland state trooper.
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Six-seven, probably 240 and there wasn't any fat on that man,
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and I had known him for years.
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And I said, trooper Dragovich, if he's so much as blinks, break his neck.
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No reaction.
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None.
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Bill Erfurth: So he was a stone cold killer.
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And in the interest of time, absolutely.
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We gotta keep this moving along, we got other things we need to ask you,
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but, uh, so you do the search warrant.
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Do you find the guns in the car?
16:34
Uh, what else can you tell us?
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Dave Reichenbaugh: Yes, the, uh, the, the gun was found after
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we secured the search warrant.
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Uh, so we're now well into daylight by this time.
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The gun is found underneath the backseat where the backseat, the, back of the
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backseat could be lowered so that they could move from the passenger area into
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the trunk, into the prone sniper position.
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The rifle was found there, and I'm telling you when that you
17:04
couldn't have heard a pin drop.
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'cause we're all standing around watching the, uh, you know, the
17:09
ATF technicians do their thing.
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They pulled that rifle out.
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It was a collective.
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We got 'em.
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We, got the right guys.
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This is over.
17:27
Craig Floyd: Talk about Malvo from how long
17:28
Dave Reichenbaugh: was a United States citizen from the Atlanta area.
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Served in the military, was an average soldier at best, but he
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was an extreme control freak.
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And the way I've described it and after all of these years, I still believe
17:47
this, and I will take this to my grave.
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Muhammad thought he was smarter than everybody else.
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Muhammad was the brains Malvo, for the lack of a better term, was the, muscle.
18:03
I don't believe Muhammad had the stones to do what he did, and Malvo had no soul.
18:13
So Malvo was looking for a means, and Muhammad served that purpose.
18:19
Fed him, moved him around, enabled him to kill.
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And as far as Malvo was concerned, he was Mohammad's vessel, if you will.
18:33
I, I believe he to this day.
18:35
Craig Floyd: Dave, you alluded to it earlier, so let's get into it.
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Um, Mildred Muhammad is the ex-wife of John Muhammad.
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Yeah.
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And she lived in the DC area.
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Um, there was a recent documentary, I think on Discovery tv.
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And basically, she revealed, and I think others have talked about this, uh, since
18:56
the crimes occurred, that she was the ultimate target of all these mass killings
19:02
because, um, in her mind, Mohammed wanted to kill her, but to try to disguise,
19:10
him as the killer of his ex-wife.
19:12
He would kill all these other people randomly and she would just be a, a
19:16
random victim and they'd never figure out that he was the actual killer.
19:21
talk to me about that.
19:22
I mean, when did that come out?
19:23
Obviously that wasn't during the, the reign of terror, but when did we learn
19:28
about Mildred Muhammad and, and do you agree that she was the ultimate target?
19:33
Dave Reichenbaugh: Looking back, I do, but there's a caveat to this.
19:38
John Muhammad was.
19:42
And the public generally doesn't know this either.
19:44
He was a follower of Osama bin Laden.
19:50
he got disenfranchised for whatever reason.
19:54
His goal was to move into some barren land out in western Canada someplace.
20:03
And he was going to get kids just like malvo from various parts of
20:07
the country, disenfranchised kids.
20:12
Train them to be killers, then send sniper teams to various cities around
20:17
the country and do this only one problem.
20:21
He really didn't have the means to be able to put that plan together.
20:27
As I told you, he was a control freak and it just infuriated him in the fact that
20:33
his wife was able to get the children.
20:36
Because there for a while, um, he had control of the kids and it took the
20:41
courts to give the kids back to her, and she fled and wound up in Maryland.
20:48
The only thing he knew, she was somewhere in Maryland, he wasn't really
20:52
sure, but he was such a freak that there was no way that he was going to
21:00
permit her to have control of the kids.
21:06
So his goal sort of shifted, well, I'm, this is still my long range
21:10
plan is to set up sniper teams, but I'm gonna get Mildred first.
21:16
So basically he sort of morphed his plan, if you will, and came up with the, all
21:21
right, well, we'll start killing people in, in DC and eventually I'll kill her,
21:27
and then she'll just look like another.
21:31
yeah, it was more complex than just the way you stated it.
21:35
But yeah, there, his plan evolved.
21:40
The very honest, down to earth answer to that.
21:43
and I'm not above saying it, we were all scared to death.
21:50
we had no idea.
21:55
What we were looking for or who we were looking for when this thing started.
22:00
and, and as you said, this is, coming a year after 9-11.
22:06
Dennis Collins: Right.
22:06
Dave Reichenbaugh: So keep in mind that was all very, very fresh in
22:10
every American's mind and every police officer's mind, especially those of
22:14
us in criminal intelligence, because we were all expecting another attack.
22:21
We had no idea when it was gonna come, where it was gonna
22:25
come, or how it was gonna come.
22:27
And this had all the earmarks within a few hours of, oh my God, this is it.
22:34
It's on our back door.
22:36
Are, we dealing with criminals or are we dealing with some
22:41
sort of organized military unit?
22:46
you know, you can, we can sit here and argue all day whether terrorists
22:50
are up to that level or not, but when you're standing there and you've
22:57
got a nine millimeter on your hip and, a shotgun in your police car,
23:02
if you're lucky, you know, you're outgunned right out of the gate.
23:06
Dennis Collins: Right,
23:07
Dave Reichenbaugh: And and we knew that.
23:09
And so there was fear.
23:10
And I can tell you this, all my years in law enforcement.
23:15
I was really never, ever afraid of, back home, you know, the safety of my wife.
23:22
My kids at the time never crossed my mind, but this was the first time in
23:28
my career that I felt not only are we looking for this to, solve it and
23:33
to protect the public, but my God, I'm trying to protect my daughter
23:37
that was going to to middle school.
23:39
Dennis Collins: Yeah.
23:41
I think that's what changed it all because it changed the rules.
23:45
you know, we're kind of used to the, rules of how to stay out of trouble, you know,
23:49
how to keep our families out of trouble.
23:51
This changed all the rules.
23:52
Did it change the rules for law enforcement?
23:55
Did you guys eventually have to look at this differently
23:59
in order to get to a solution?
24:03
Dave Reichenbaugh: Yes, we did.
24:05
early on those first.
24:08
Probably 10, 14 days of this we're really focused on this has got to
24:15
be an act of terrorism and these are organized terrorists on a mission.
24:24
Then as the case started to unfold, we realized, you know what?
24:31
These guys are just killers and morons,
24:35
and that was a shift.
24:38
I mean, that was a shift.
24:39
Now we're going from, all right, this isn't an organized attack.
24:48
These are, I hate to say it, but sadistic killers that just want to kill, and they
24:57
liked hearing their names on the, on the, uh, or that they didn't know their names.
25:01
Yeah, but they liked the news clippings.
25:03
Dennis Collins: They liked the notoriety.
25:05
Dave Reichenbaugh: That's absolutely correct.
25:07
Dennis Collins: Yeah.
25:07
Craig Floyd: There, there were 10 people killed.
25:10
Uh, during this, the reign of terror that lasted 23 days, uh, three people injured.
25:16
Uh, I'm wondering, at what point in the investigation did you realize
25:20
it was the same killers that were committing these heinous crimes?
25:26
it, it had to take a while.
25:27
I mean, uh, one person's killed in Maryland, another
25:30
person's killed in Virginia.
25:32
How did you put it together?
25:34
Dave Reichenbaugh: Quite honestly forensics, good old fashioned forensics.
25:37
Um, we actually knew it was the same gun within, as I recall, 72 hours.
25:43
Craig Floyd: Wow.
25:43
okay.
25:43
Dave Reichenbaugh: From that first day when we had that spree of killings,
25:49
ATF and they were terrific.
25:51
They, as you know, their, their labs are some of the best in the world.
25:56
Within 72 hours, we knew we were, we're recovering bullets from the same gun.
26:03
And of course at that time that fed into the, you know, the whole aspect
26:10
of these are foreign terrorists organized and sent here on a mission.
26:17
And it really wasn't until we got the first note and it
26:23
was actually a tarot card.
26:24
And on top of the card was, call me God at that point.
26:31
I knew, all right, we're dealing with somebody that's on a God complex.
26:37
These guys aren't foreign trained terrorists.
26:42
These are homegrown idiots.
26:45
And that's when really the, for me, in my mind, that's, that's when it, it changed.
26:53
And quite honestly, it made it more terrifying in the sense.
27:01
Man, we really have no idea who was doing this or why, uh, because if you looked at
27:09
the victims, they were completely random.
27:12
You know, they were male, female, black, white, Hispanic.
27:17
There, there didn't seem to be any connection to any of these
27:24
victims other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
27:29
Bill Erfurth: We're talking about the, uh, the beltway snipers
27:32
up in the DC metro area there.
27:35
And, uh, my recollection is that they concealed themselves
27:40
in the trunk of their vehicle.
27:42
They had a hole in the side of the vehicle so that they could put the barrel of the
27:45
rifle through and, uh, shoot these folks.
27:49
Talk about that.
27:50
Let, let's set the stage and talk about some of that.
27:54
Dave Reichenbaugh: Well, this all goes back.
27:55
And then again, this is, uh, you know, how, how you've taught very, very early
28:00
on in your career to don't make the evidence fit what you think, develop
28:09
what you think based on the evidence.
28:12
In other words, tunnel vision.
28:15
And we fell victim to it.
28:17
Hook, line, and sinker, because that first day, the gardener that
28:23
looked up there was a shooting.
28:25
Um, a woman was shot on a park bench in front of a, a little chicken restaurant
28:30
and there was a guy there spreading mulch.
28:34
And he looks up and he happens to see a white van leaving the parking lot.
28:39
And it, the whole focus became the white.
28:43
Van, if you happen to be driving a donut delivery white van, you are
28:50
getting stopped four and five times a day with troopers, police officers,
28:56
county, state, local, with guns in your face four and five times a day.
29:04
And we became so focused in on finding this white van and anybody
29:10
knows this was all over the news.
29:12
If these guys were in a white van on that first day, they sure as hell were
29:16
not in a white van on by day four.
29:20
So there had to be other vehicles in involved in this.
29:23
And that's when we come up with sort of the idea,
29:28
cops are curious, we're taught to be curious.
29:33
And I just thought to myself, you know, if I'm out here working the
29:37
street, because that first day before we really got organized.
29:41
I was like every other police officer I was, even though I was a lieutenant, I
29:45
was out in my unmarked cars, patrolling Montgomery County looking for something.
29:53
and there were several tags, random tags.
29:58
Maybe the guy didn't look at me right, or looked a little
30:01
strange, and I ran those tags.
30:03
Well, that's all recorded.
30:04
Every tag that you ever run is, is recorded.
30:07
And I thought to myself, you know, you can't.
30:10
Sling a cat in Montgomery County without hitting a police officer.
30:14
We had the area completely flooded with police.
30:21
I thought to myself, you know what?
30:24
Somewhere along the line, there's a police officer that ran their
30:29
tag, but we're, they weren't in a white van, so they didn't act on
30:35
it, but they probably ran the tack.
30:38
They didn't look right and when we got into this and then the intelligence
30:43
start and we started drawing circles around the shootings and looking,
30:46
you know, an hour before or an hour after damn effect car didn't show up.
30:53
several times was called in.
30:56
The tag was run by police officers because they're cops.
31:02
Something didn't look right, something didn't feel right.
31:05
But hey.
31:06
I don't have time to stop a blue caprice.
31:09
I'm looking for a damn white van.
31:12
Dennis Collins: Yeah.
31:12
Dave Reichenbaugh: And when it all came together, really the case came together
31:15
within 12, 14 hours on that last day.
31:20
And we, got the tip from the old Army buddy out and on the west coast.
31:26
Hey, I, I think the sniper might be an old army buddy of mine, John Muhammad.
31:33
That's when the pieces all came together.
31:35
Sure enough.
31:36
Yeah, there's a car with New Jersey tags out there associated with him.
31:42
And guess what?
31:44
That car has shown up either an hour before or an hour after every shooting.
31:48
Police officers have called in the tag.
31:52
So when it came together, it all came together very, very quickly.
31:54
And then we knew really what we were looking for in that blue caprice.
32:01
Craig Floyd: Dave tell, talk to me about.
32:04
One aspect of this case that we haven't really, uh, touched on, uh, very deeply,
32:08
and that is the coordination between Fed State and local law enforcement.
32:13
As you said, there were literally hundreds, if not thousands of officers
32:17
working this case one way or another.
32:19
Charles Moose.
32:21
Uh, the chief of police in Montgomery County was kind of
32:24
the face of the investigation.
32:26
Yes, he would be the guy every day giving us updates.
32:29
Uh, the cameras, uh, the microphones in his face.
32:33
and he really became the case in many ways.
32:36
I got to meet him.
32:38
Years later, and actually took him out to the storage facility where we
32:43
had the car, uh, the blue Caprice.
32:46
That was the sniper's nest.
32:49
and interestingly, he said he had never seen the car.
32:53
Uh, he had never, interviewed or been part of the arrest or had any interaction
32:59
at, at all with Mohammed and Malvo, which I found interesting because as I
33:05
understood it, he was actually notified that you had the, guys at the rest
33:09
stop, you were gonna make the arrest.
33:11
And, and, uh, he was more or less invited to, you know, be part of that
33:15
since he was, uh, one of the heads of the investigation and he declined.
33:20
And he told me in a, in a very personal conversation, he said, you know, I
33:24
couldn't have helped any, uh, being there.
33:27
He said, uh, we had our SWAT team, we had all these other officers that,
33:30
that were trained to make the arrest and, uh, he had no reason to be there.
33:35
I found that interesting because I think a lot of people thought
33:38
Charles Moose was this, uh, egomaniac, uh, loved the attention.
33:42
He ended up writing.
33:43
A book about it.
33:45
and yet to me, he was a very humble man.
33:48
Dave Reichenbaugh: you know, the, the 24 hour news cycle had just really come out
33:52
with the various networks covering stuff, you know, like the CNN's and the, the,
33:58
the Fox News and the various networks.
34:01
That was at first for us, as, as, well.
34:05
And we really didn't know how.
34:09
It.
34:09
And the thought process was, is, well, we need to keep the public informed.
34:14
We need to tell these news people something.
34:17
And Chief Moose wound up being the face.
34:19
And quite honestly, we mistakenly put him out there, what, two or three times a day?
34:28
which was a huge mistake for a lot of reasons.
34:32
And, and I think now you see these shootings, like the ones that
34:34
we're currently dealing with now.
34:37
the press conferences are much more controlled.
34:43
and it's not a free for all.
34:45
Back in those days, it was a free for all and Chief Moose was, was the face.
34:50
Um, I found him to be as, as you said, Craig, a humble guy.
34:56
I, I can remember, this was day one or day two, actually it was
35:01
probably day two or day three.
35:03
Um, we're.
35:05
Montgomery County Police headquarters there in, in Rockville, and that was a,
35:12
a building that was meant for maybe 40, 50 people to be in it at any one time.
35:18
And, and we have a hundred police officers from every agency you can think
35:25
of, federal and state crammed in there.
35:31
At first, I was answering the phone just like everybody else taking tips, and I,
35:36
uh, it was getting late in the evening.
35:38
It was about 9:00 PM and we had basically been working around the clock.
35:43
I walked into the, to the hall to go to the men's room, and, there was Chief
35:47
Moose standing there, and he looked at me and he said, he introduced himself
35:53
and I introduced myself and he said, trooper, have you had anything to eat?
35:58
I said, no, sir, there hasn't been time.
36:00
He says, well, let me go get you some food.
36:03
We got some stuff coming in here.
36:05
Let me get you a cup of coffee and, a sandwich.
36:09
And I said, chief, you don't have to do that.
36:10
He says, oh, yes I do.
36:13
You're you're here for us.
36:15
And I've never forgotten that.
36:21
I, believe he was a man that, that cared deeply about his officers.
36:25
He cared deeply about his community and he got thrown into a situation that
36:34
I don't think, I'd argue there wasn't a police chief in, in the country that
36:38
was ready for that, and he did the best he could with what he had to work with.
36:44
Now, going back, should he be out there three and four times a day?
36:47
No.
36:49
We gave up way too much information to, to, to the public.
36:53
And then we had all the various networks as, you know, getting
36:59
tips inside information.
37:01
So now what do we do?
37:03
We've got leaks, internal leaks.
37:06
How do we manage it?
37:09
it's much better now than back then, but, but Chief Moose fell into that.
37:16
Dennis Collins: Yeah.
37:16
Dave Reichenbaugh: What's the old saying?
37:17
The first one into the jungle that's unknown.
37:20
He's gonna take a few hits.
37:22
Media.
37:23
He took a lot.
37:23
Dennis Collins: The media frenzy.
37:24
The media frenzy.
37:25
You know, I, I I like to ask the question because the media in this day
37:30
and age can sometimes be part of your solution or can be part of your problem.
37:35
Okay?
37:35
Dave Reichenbaugh: Yes.
37:35
We learned that in this case.
37:37
Dennis Collins: And, what would you, how would, I'm, kind of reading between
37:41
the lines, but how would you assess the media as it played out in this case?
37:45
Part of the problem or part of the solution?
37:49
Dave Reichenbaugh: The first two and a half, The first 22
37:53
days, they were a problem.
37:55
Dennis Collins: Got it.
37:56
Yeah.
37:56
Dave Reichenbaugh: Because we had to, we had to manage that as best we could.
38:01
We had internal leaks.
38:02
There was information, investigative information out there that should never
38:07
have been out there, and we all know that.
38:11
Now on the media's part they were in competition with each other.
38:17
Dennis Collins: Of course.
38:18
Yeah.
38:18
Dave Reichenbaugh: You had the Geraldo Rivera, who's typically
38:21
a night a a terrific guy.
38:23
You had him out there, but of course he wants the scoop.
38:27
That's right.
38:28
You had other folks from other networks that wanted to scoop, so
38:31
they had an internal competition to see who could outshine the other.
38:37
Dennis Collins: That's right.
38:37
Dave Reichenbaugh: And this investigation fell somewhere
38:40
in the middle with the police.
38:42
Us, quite honestly, we weren't prepared to handle this.
38:45
now much.
38:46
So we are, the last day, if it wasn't for the media, those guys might still
38:53
be out there because they were, their plan was, is the following day, they
39:00
only had one bullet left for that rifle.
39:04
Dennis Collins: Interesting.
39:05
Dave Reichenbaugh: They, they were scooting town.
39:06
They were off to parts unknown.
39:11
Dennis Collins: Yeah.
39:12
Dave Reichenbaugh: Um, because I, I can tell you, and I, you know, and
39:14
I'm digressing here a little bit, but one of the most chilling things,
39:18
and I can still hear it sometimes at night, is when ATF pulled that rifle
39:23
outta the car and they made it safe, the one bullet that was in the rifle,
39:28
of course, you know, they jacked that receiver back and I can still see that
39:33
bullet twirling in the air and hear the tinkle of it when it hit the pavement.
39:40
Dennis Collins: Wow.
39:41
Dave Reichenbaugh: That was the most chilling part of this whole thing for me.
39:46
I, it sounds a little ludicrous, but I can still picture that damn bullet
39:52
coming outta that receiver, you know, sort of twirling in the air and landing
39:57
on the, uh, the pavement with a tinkle.
40:02
the, the book came apart, came about as a part of being furious.
40:08
Watching, I don't know if you all recall, there was a movie, I think
40:12
it might have sold six tickets.
40:17
and that was six tickets too many.
40:18
Those people got ripped off.
40:20
It was called Blue Caprice.
40:23
and I see it every once in a while on, you know, the various movie channels
40:28
and it was about the beltway snipers.
40:31
But if you watch that movie, you knew nothing about law enforcement and
40:36
you knew nothing about any of this.
40:38
You watched that movie and you thought
40:43
those killers are nothing but poor folks that society has done wrong.
40:51
Dennis Collins: Oh, wow.
40:53
Dave Reichenbaugh: And that infuriated me.
40:55
And by the way, I've never watched the whole movie.
40:59
Then as I, I told you, my canine trooper up there at the time was a guy
41:03
by the name of Rich Hoffenberg, who became retired, became Chief of Police
41:07
of Boonsboro, and, he passed, passed away, had a heart attack and was gone.
41:13
And it dawned on me and I was asked, even though I'd retired, I was still
41:17
going around the country teaching at various, presenting this case at various
41:22
law enforcement, uh, functions, and.
41:27
I would tell the story and, and I would have detectives come up
41:29
to me after my presentation and say, wow, what you're telling me
41:33
is nothing that, that we've heard.
41:36
Uh, you need to write a book.
41:38
Dennis Collins: Ah,
41:40
Dave Reichenbaugh: my wife kept telling me, you need to write a book.
41:43
And when, when Rich, who was a good friend of mine passed, it
41:47
dawned on me, you know what?
41:49
If somebody doesn't write the truth?
41:53
It's gonna disappear.
41:55
And this still, and I believe it still is the largest single
41:58
manhunt in law enforcement, American law enforcement history.
42:01
We had over a thousand police officers on this manhunt nonstop.
42:07
And I decided to write a book.
42:10
I had no idea how to do it.
42:12
Um.
42:14
I thought, you know, I write a pretty mean police report.
42:16
I can do this.
42:17
So no problem, huh?
42:20
I, got some help from a high school friend who is a writer and she got me
42:26
started and we went back and forth and back and forth and back and forth with
42:29
outlines, and finally she looked at me and called me up and said, stop sending
42:33
me outlines, write the damn book.
42:37
So I wrote the book and I got extremely lucky and I was able to.
42:45
get an attorney that had some connections and I wound up getting an agent
42:48
and the book got published in 2018.
42:52
So I, really put a lot of personal stuff in that book.
42:57
But keep in mind, um, one of the things that I feared was, I'm certainly no hero.
43:05
I was just one of the boys in the band here and happened to be.
43:10
In the right place at the right time.
43:12
'cause I knew the case from day one until obviously slapping
43:16
the handcuffs on the bad guys.
43:20
it's dedicated really to the thousand police officers from federal,
43:25
state, local that is out there.
43:29
And I wanted the police side of it.
43:32
To be written down for history.
43:34
So that really was my motivation for, writing.
43:37
It was to try to preserve history and as I think we discussed when we first came
43:43
on, you know, I'm sort of a civil war buff and, you know, yeah, I, I walk around the
43:48
battlefield that's in my backyard and, you know, everybody knows the public part of
43:52
it, but I, I like the little stories of.
43:56
Of the soldiers that fought and what they thought and, why they
44:01
were doing what they were doing.
44:02
So all of that was motivation for me to write the book.
44:06
Dennis Collins: Absolutely.
44:07
Well, again, I, I wanna thank you on behalf of Craig and Billy
44:11
and all of us at Heroes Behind the Badge, uh, for sharing today.
44:15
You really?
44:16
Dave Reichenbaugh: Yeah.
44:16
Also, uh, you can get the book on Amazon.
44:18
It,
44:19
Dennis Collins: I was gonna say, let's make sure we let people know where it is.
44:22
It's on Amazon, right?
44:23
Dave Reichenbaugh: Yes.
44:24
And, uh, Barnes and Noble, every once in a while you can
44:27
go in and ask them for the book.
44:29
If they don't have it on the shelf, they can get it for you.
44:32
Dennis Collins: Easiest
44:32
Dave Reichenbaugh: you don't doing with Amazon.
44:33
Dennis Collins: Yeah.
44:34
The easiest way is Amazon.
44:35
Some people don't like it.
44:36
But in Pursuit, the hunt for the beltway.
44:39
Snipers by our guests today.
44:43
Uh, Dave Reichenbaugh, who has told on this podcast an amazing story.
44:48
If you thought you knew a little bit about the Beltway Sniper case, Uhuh,
44:53
if you missed any part of this podcast.
44:55
Go back, rewind, listen to what Dave has to say.
44:59
He's sharing personal opinions, personal impressions of what happened.
45:05
That's invaluable and I thank you for, sharing that with
45:09
us and with our audience.
45:10
Dave, thanks for being our guest.
45:12
Dave Reichenbaugh: Well, it has been an absolute honor and it has been an
45:16
honor to be involved with the National Law Enforcement Officers Museum.
45:20
I was there when, when it opened.
45:22
Yes, sir. It's just an amazing tribute to all of our brothers and sisters
45:28
serving past and unfortunate ones that laid their life down for all of us.
45:34
It
45:34
Dennis Collins: absolutely,
45:35
Dave Reichenbaugh: it's an honor for me and I, and I will close
45:38
with, my granddaughter who's now 12, and this goes back a couple years.
45:45
She was probably eight years old and.
45:48
I took her down within, oh, I don't know, two or three weeks when the museum
45:53
opened and we paid a little visit and of course looked at the sniper visit,
45:57
visit, and I'll never forget, she looked at me and said, pap, you are in a museum.
46:05
So that was, I didn't quite know how to take that.
46:09
I think that's a little bit, actually I think it was, but when you think
46:12
about it, oh my God, I'm that old.
46:14
I'm in a museum and maybe I'm at this point 47 years.
46:18
I am a museum piece without a doubt.
46:21
Dennis Collins: Thank God.
46:22
And we're still kicking buddy.
46:23
We're still here.
46:25
Dave Reichenbaugh: Hey, when you wake up and you don't have dirt
46:26
in your face, it's a good day.
46:28
Dennis Collins: Yeah.
46:29
As long as you're looking down on the grass, you know, that's, that's,
46:31
Dave Reichenbaugh: that's exactly right.
46:33
Dennis Collins: Well, again, many, many thanks, Dave.
46:36
For, what you shared with us today.
46:38
I wanna remind our listeners, our viewers, you have been listening
46:42
to Heroes Behind the Badge.
46:44
Yes.
46:45
Our podcast is called Heroes.
46:46
Behind the Badge, we bring stories just like Dave's story.
46:49
You'll never hear this anywhere else.
46:51
This is Dave's story that he told to you right here on Heroes Behind the
46:55
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Signing off for now for Craig and Bill Frith.
48:10
It's Dennis Collins.
48:11
We'll see you next time.