Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Corporate jobs, family life and wedding photography with Kevin Lines

Transcript

Corporate jobs, family life and wedding photography with Kevin Lines · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

0:00
Kevin: Some, some people say like my business is my life.
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My, mine isn't, mine is just.
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It's part of my life that I, that I use to earn money and
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that, that, that's the reality.
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Family is, is my kind of, is the most important thing as it
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probably is for most people.
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Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business, marketing expert,
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speaker and blogger, and you're listening to the Wedding Pros
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Who Are Ready To Grow podcast.
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I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
0:29
examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
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If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
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and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you
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love, then you're in the right place.
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Let's get going with today's episode.
0:45
Today I'm chatting with Kevin Lyons.
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Kevin is both a wedding and corporate photographer and
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is amazing at what he does.
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Based in Hertfordshire, but traveling all over for work, some of his
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clients have included John Lewis, Tesco, Porsche, and many more.
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I've known Kevin since he joined my Wedding Pro Members Lounge as
1:00
a founding member back in 2019.
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Most recently, I was thrilled when my friends chose to book him for
1:06
their wedding, and even more thrilled when I saw the incredible photos.
1:10
I'm looking forward to dive into his journey today.
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Kevin, podcast.
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Kevin: Hi.
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Thanks Pleasure to be here.
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Becca: I'm so glad you're here.
1:17
And just let's talk about that wedding because that was the first
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time I've seen you really at work.
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I really enjoyed it.
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I hope you didn't feel too much pressure having me there at the wedding day.
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Kevin: Yeah, no, I didn't feel too much pressure.
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I mean, I've done quite a lot of weddings over the years, obviously,
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but yeah, there was a sort of a little bit of extra, not pressure, but more
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a case of, I wanted to do, I wanted to like really smash the job for them.
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And it, yeah, I was really, really happy with, with what I got from it.
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It helped that they were obviously a really photogenic couple and
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all the guests were great as well.
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And the kids running around and it, yeah, it was just a brilliant
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day from start to finish.
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Becca: Yeah, it was a great day.
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And I always really like seeing.
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you and all my members doing, doing their job because I don't often
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get to see that side of things.
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I get to hear about what's going on.
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I get to see the business changes that people are making, but actually seeing
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you on a wedding day was a lot of fun.
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Now let's move on because I like to take people right back to the start
2:09
of their journeys because I think it's interesting for listeners to understand
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how someone's got to where they are now.
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So take us back, Kevin, back to the start.
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When did photography In general, become a career for you.
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Kevin: So basically I've always kind of been interested in sort of images
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and film and the creation thereof.
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So basically when I left school, I wasn't particularly.
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Academic, I was kind of like always a middling sort of student.
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Like I wasn't terrible, but I wasn't brilliant.
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But the at, at the school that I went to, Monks Walk in Welwyn Garden City.
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They actually, for GCSE you could do photography at the time.
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So I did that and then, yeah, kind of from there that I, I, I just kind of knew
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really that's what I wanted to do and it was just a case of trying to work out if
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I could kind of make a career out of it rather than it, it just being a hobby.
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So anyway, so I, I, I finished secondary school, and then I managed to get a
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place on a press photography course at Norton College up in Sheffield.
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So, at the time they, the government were doing some kind of scholarship,
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so the course was quite expensive, but I actually got it for free, or
3:16
paid for, which is really lucky, so I went up there and did that.
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It's kind of, it's quite funny actually, because I actually never
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finished the course, because the whole point of the course was to get a job.
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So I actually did kind of like 75 percent of the course and
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then left to get my first job.
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Which was the point of it, I mean they're quite happy for you to do that, but yeah.
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It's always funny when I'm sort of like, yeah I did this course
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but I didn't actually finish it, but I got a job from it.
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Yeah, so I joined a photo agency in Hertford which, did a sort of
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various kind of, they did local news.
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corporate events and a little bit of sport photography as well, which was great fun.
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Spent 10 years there and then unfortunately got made redundant because
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the local press at the time that it just, it, well, it's not there anymore.
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Advertising is all online now and all that sort of thing.
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So yeah, basically I, I got a, a fair bit of money because
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I've been there a long time.
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So I just kind of thought, Oh, do you know what?
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Let's give it a go, go out on my own.
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And here we are.
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I'm still here.
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Becca: Amazing.
4:22
Well, that's a good start.
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Kevin: Yeah, well, managed to kind of get through COVID, which, you know,
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as everyone knows, was, you know, let's not talk about that too much.
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But yeah, made it through and kind of thriving at the moment.
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Not mega, mega, mega busy, but busy enough that I'm getting the work that
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I need and, you know, having a good balance with family life as well.
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Becca: Amazing.
4:43
Now, press photography is an interesting place to start because
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not many people start in that genre.
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When you talk about doing a press photography course, what does that entail?
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Because for me, when you say press photography, I'm thinking of these
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like paparazzi jumping out of people along the street, but I'm sure
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that's not what they're teaching you.
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What kind of skills, what did you learn?
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Working and learning in that industry.
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Kevin: So from a technical standpoint, it's about working in press.
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You've got to be really fast.
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You can't, you know, there's no restaging anything.
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You're shooting what happens.
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So it's more about kind of knowing the technical side of your, of your
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camera or video camera, like the back of your hand where you're almost.
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I mean, now, when I shoot now, I don't, I just move the dials, I don't really think
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about, it's just like muscle memory, if you see what I mean, and that all stems
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from there, they were quite big on that, and it's just sort of, it's hard to
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explain, but they sort of, they teach you about, watch what you're shooting, don't
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always look at the main thing, look what's developing off to the side, and again,
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you can kind of, you know, shift that over to shooting weddings, you know, you might
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be, obviously you're there to focus on the bride and groom, but you might be shooting
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them just doing some candid stuff.
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And in the background, you know, I might say, Oh, you know, there's
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something, you know, cool developing in the background is sort of being aware
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of the entire you know, the entire scene rather than just one thing.
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And it's, it was just basically teaching awareness of that.
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And there was other things, sort of caption writing at the time,
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and, and little bits of pieces.
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But yeah, it was mainly kind of, sending you out in, in and around Sheffield
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and, because they have lots of protests and sports teams and all this kind of
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thing, and you're allowed to kind of go out and just find your own, you know,
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stories and just be shooting basically.
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Becca: I think it's a really good, good grounding, especially for the
6:28
wedding industry, because actually the wedding day things do only happen once.
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And you do have one moment to capture that picture of the cake cutting or
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the first kiss or the first dance.
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And it really frustrates me actually, if I see people restaging things or
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saying, Oh, can you do that again?
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So I'm like, we've missed the moment.
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That's your job to capture the moment.
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And I'm guessing your background in press, you do only have that one moment.
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You've got to get the right photo at the right time.
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That that's, that's the definitely held you in good stead in weddings, I'm sure.
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Kevin: Yeah, it definitely has.
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And I remember, when I got my first job, first thing, the my boss, if you like,
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said to me was, I want pictures, not excuses and that's always stuck with me.
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You know, you're there to do the job.
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You can't be like, oh, you know, I was switched off and I, I miss this,
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but you, you know, a wedding, if you, people sort of, when, when you're
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walking around a wedding, people often say to you, oh, you know, it must be
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so cool, kind of just taking photos.
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But it, it can actually, and anyone that's shot a wedding will notice it can be like,
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at the end of the day, you are mentally, you're completely drained mentally because
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you have to be switched on from, you know, nine, 10 o'clock, whatever time you get
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there, till nine or 10 in the evening.
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And there's always stuff going on.
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So yeah, it's, it's, it's a very.
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It is a hard job.
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It might look easy on the, like on the outside of what you're doing, sort
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of physically it's not hard, but it definitely is very, it's mentally tiring.
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Becca: I really like that.
7:48
I'm going to keep that one in on the back burner.
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I want pictures, not excuses.
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I think there's a lot of instances where we can be using a similar mindset.
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And it's funny, is it how things that we learn early on in our careers or early
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on in our training, things like that just really stick with us for a long time.
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I know there's lots of things in my life that have done the same.
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So we talked about.
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Your press photography, you work for this agency.
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At what point did weddings enter the picture for you as a photographer?
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Kevin: Well, I mean, originally, I never ever wanted to do weddings.
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It wasn't something that appealed to me at all.
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But while I was at the agency, a friend of a, one of the guys that ran the agency was
8:21
getting married, and they basically just asked me, they, my boss asked me, would
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I be up for doing it, sort of, with him?
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And I thought, oh, you know, why not?
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Give it a go, see what it's like.
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Nothing else is, you know, a bit of extra money at the time.
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And I did it, and I kind of just really enjoyed it.
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It was something, as I say, I never really had any intention of getting into.
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I shot it and I found creatively is really sort of quite liberating because
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the thing with shooting press is that you're, you know, there's no room for
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that, that you can use create creativity in terms of your angles that you're
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shooting and how you approach it.
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But in terms of, you know, weddings just gives a whole
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bigger palette of creativity.
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Becca: And so you did your, I assume you said yes to that first wedding.
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I assume you, you did go and do it.
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Where was your, do you remember your first client after that?
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Do you remember when you thought actually, yeah, I could actually
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make some decent money from this.
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Not just doing it for friends and family.
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Kevin: Yeah.
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Well, I didn't really get any other clients sort of straight from that, but.
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It was again another friend of my sister's actually needed someone and then it kind
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of It was so it's a long way back now So I can't remember exactly how it kind
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of panned out but I guess it was kind of just a snowball from that that you
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do that and then people that are there and That that's really sort of You can
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have your websites, but really word of mouth is, is, and people seeing you
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do it is, is your best kind, best type of advertising you, you, you can have.
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Becca: Yeah, it absolutely is.
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Word of mouth is always going to help in both the weddings and the
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corporate side of things, I'm sure.
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So let's go on from that then, because I love in this podcast to
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give people some insider marketing secrets, because we're all talking
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about, Oh, you need to be on TikTok.
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You need to be on Instagram.
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You need to be on this directory.
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We need to do this for you over the last few years, when you have looked.
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Where your customers and clients have come from, where are your main sources
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that you think people find you from?
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Kevin: Well, I'm kind of, I kind of buck the trend of that really
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because I don't have TikTok.
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I literally have a website and my Instagram and that's it.
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I don't have any time or inclination to kind of learn anything else.
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I have, I did do a reel the other day for the first time.
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I know that's kind of makes you sound really lame on, on my social stuff.
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But yeah, so I did that, which was quite good fun.
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Where do my clients come from?
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Really, for me, people always make a, a big thing of networking and
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now you've got to go to networking meetings, this kind of thing.
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I don't buy into that at all.
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For me, networking, we're networking.
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Now you're talking to people.
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That's all it is.
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You don't.
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Have to build it up to be this, this like thing you go and do.
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It's what you do naturally every day.
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You know, when I pick my children up from school, you talk to the other parents
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in the playground, you're networking to a degree it, you have, you, you have to
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shift the mindset from it's something you've got to do where towards more, you
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do it all the time, just speak to people.
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You know, they might not need anyone tomorrow or in a month's
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time, but in a year or two years time, they'll remember you.
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Oh yes.
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That guy that does the photos, you know, you know, I'll chat to him.
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And see if we can get something sorted out together.
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And that's it.
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There's no real, I don't spend any money really on advertising by my, my website.
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Cause I, well, one, I don't really understand it.
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I don't understand Google ads or anything like that.
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But to me, it's just, you don't, I think nowadays you're, you're often, whenever
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I log into Facebook or go online, there's someone saying, Oh yeah, pay me like,
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200 and I'll tell you all these secrets.
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You don't need to do any of that.
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I mean, fair play to people to do it and they're successful from
12:02
doing it, but there's nothing you can't get for free from Google or
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speaking to other business owners.
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You don't have to have a big budget as well.
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I think that sometimes stops people.
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It's really be yourself, just talk to people and work will come
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your way if you do a good job.
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Becca: Yeah, you make it sound so easy, Kevin, but people find that difficult.
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I started referring to it as connecting rather than networking
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because I do think networking has these real negative connotations
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and actually is just connecting.
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It's talking to people and finding out a little bit about them and
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finding out what they do and then seeing if you've got Common goal.
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I went to a networking or connecting dinner the other week, and there
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was only eight people there.
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And I reckon, and on the surface, none of them had anything to do with what I did.
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There was no wedding industry people there, but actually just talking to
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people and finding out what they did.
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I found some really interesting connections.
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I've got someone who was a comedian.
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They're going to come on the podcast and talk about adding humor into things.
12:57
Actually, there's connections everywhere we go.
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We just need to be open to having them and open to talking to people.
13:02
And there is no, secret.
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There is no secret.
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No one go on the internet and pay thousands of pounds for a secret.
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There isn't a secret.
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There is help.
13:10
There's accountability.
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There's putting yourself in the right rooms, but ultimately
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you've got to do the work.
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You can't just wake up one day and, and have this successful business.
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And I, you make it sound easy, but I know you have put lots
13:20
of time and work into it.
13:21
I think one of the.
13:22
things from when my friends booked you, because I obviously took a vested
13:26
interest when I was sending supplies to people and they were making decisions.
13:29
I was asking them, why are you, why did you make that choice?
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What were you looking for?
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And your website played a big part in it because they went onto your site.
13:37
And obviously I pointed them in your direction.
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So that's the connection piece already.
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I put in them in your direction alongside about 10 other people as well.
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They looked at your site.
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They really liked your images, which obviously as a photographer has
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got to be number one selling point.
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So if people don't have the best quality images on their site, that
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needs to change straight away.
13:55
And then the big thing as well was the pricing and the price transparency and
13:59
being able to see exactly how much you charged, what you charged for a day,
14:03
weekday wedding, because they were actually getting married on a Monday
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and just, they said it was just so refreshing that they could see everything
14:09
straight away, could contact you.
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And then the rest is history.
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They liked you and they built you.
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Kevin: Yeah, I don't, I know there is a lot of discussion about should you put
14:18
prices on your site or not, but I look at it, if I'm looking for something, I
14:23
don't want to have to hunt about and DM someone, I just want to, I want to go on
14:27
their site, I want to know how much it's going to cost me and what I get for it.
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And if I have to look for it, I'll just go on to the next site that, you
14:33
know, I'll keep going until I find a site that has that information on.
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Again, everyone's different, I'm not saying that's the right way.
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And also the.
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It's perhaps easier for me to do because I don't really do packages because
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to me, you know, bronze, silver, gold is like, all right, better, best.
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For me, I can only give my best at every wedding.
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I don't have like a, oh, it's sort of like a half effort kind of thing.
14:58
I give 100 percent at every one and that's it.
15:00
That's the only way I, I kind of, you know, feel comfortable doing it.
15:05
I don't, I don't see how you can sort of be like, Oh yeah, I'll give
15:07
like 50 percent effort at this one because you're only paying half what
15:10
my full day is, or I don't know.
15:12
But yeah, I don't know.
15:13
It's, it's not easy.
15:14
I mean, I think the secret is you just have to be yourself.
15:19
And when you speak to clients, I kind of, I'm how I am with everyone, whether
15:24
they're the top, the bottom, and at the end of the day, my photos are are okay.
15:31
There's lots of other photographers that have got better images than me, but I,
15:36
I think people, I know it's a horrible cliche, but people do buy people and
15:41
I think if you, if, if you are as a person, can make them feel relaxed.
15:45
You know, that, that is why people will book you, not because of your technical
15:49
ability because there's so, I mean, if you see a wedding put on Facebook now,
15:54
there's like 200 replies of photographers all say, all with like really good
15:59
sites and their images are all amazing.
16:01
There's, there's only one person going to be booked there.
16:03
So you have to, the only thing, the only differential that you can have is you
16:08
and your personality and how you are with them and how you make them feel.
16:11
And that, that really is the bottom line of, of I think how I get booked.
16:15
Becca: And again, that comes down to the connection piece, because when you just
16:18
post something on Facebook, you post a link, they know nothing about you.
16:21
Just one of a million names.
16:23
But actually when you get a personal recommendation, I always say that's the
16:25
most powerful form of marketing because.
16:28
Someone's going to listen to their friend's recommendation a hundred
16:31
times over compared to a link on Facebook every single time.
16:34
And you're right, because actually the general public, i.
16:36
e.
16:37
me, if I look at a photo, I couldn't tell you technically whose photos are better.
16:40
I can tell you whether I like a photo or not, but that's personal preference.
16:44
I can see when it's framed well, but the nuances that a photographer
16:47
can see, I just can't see them.
16:49
And I think there's a lot of photographers, and I'm sure there's
16:51
some listening that say, Suffer from that perfectionism, feeling like their
16:55
work's not good enough, not putting it out there because it's not good enough.
16:57
Whereas actually the general public, if you showed it to me, I would probably
17:00
think it was amazing because I don't have the knowledge to know any differently.
17:04
Kevin: Yeah, definitely.
17:06
And I think a lot of photographers as well can get really caught up by, Oh you
17:11
know, John down the road, his photos are so much technically better than mine.
17:14
Yeah.
17:14
But John might be an idiot behind the camera.
17:16
Do you know what I mean?
17:18
You might have the personality that.
17:20
That they love and your photos are good enough and, and that's
17:24
all it really boils down to.
17:25
Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
17:26
Kevin: John's a fictional character by the way, I just made him up.
17:29
Becca: Yeah, don't, don't sue us about John down the road that
17:32
isn't very nice behind the camera.
17:33
Kevin: I do, I know a few John photographers and it's
17:35
definitely not any of those.
17:37
Becca: Don't worry, Kevin, you're safe here.
17:39
We don't think you're being horrible to anyone in particular.
17:41
Now, one thing I'd love to talk to you a little bit about Kevin is the
17:44
fact that you don't just do weddings because there's a lot of photographers
17:47
out there that are just weddings.
17:49
That's all they do.
17:49
Maybe they do a bit of family photography, but actually you spend quite a lot of
17:53
time on your corporate photography.
17:55
You're always off at events, taking photos and things like that.
17:58
And actually I think it's an income stream that people are quite often afraid of,
18:02
or they don't really understand what it involves or how they get into it.
18:06
So can you just give us.
18:07
a little bit of a insight into what the differences are in corporate
18:11
photography and how you find those connections and how you get those jobs.
18:15
Kevin: So a lot of my corporate bookings were, so when I was working in, in doing
18:20
the press stuff, pretty much I was every day going into businesses and I just kind
18:24
of you know, was networking in inverted commas there, like daily, so picking up
18:30
contacts and it was really handy because when, when I knew that I was basically
18:35
going to be leaving press every job I was going to, I was like, right, you
18:39
know, just heads up, I'm kind of leaving soon, but I will be going out on my own.
18:44
Like this is going back, have a, have a business card, you know, it's all
18:47
online now, obviously, but giving cards out left, right, and center.
18:52
I, I got really lucky in that one of my best clients is Bedfordshire University
18:57
and at the time when I left the paper, or the, the press agency, one of my friends
19:04
was the marketing officer at the uni and kind of got me in there and he, he left
19:09
after a year, but they kept me on and I'm still doing lots of work with them today.
19:14
So yeah, sometimes it is just pure luck at the time.
19:17
But I've also, when I started out, I did do a couple of free jobs, which
19:23
I know is generally like a big no no.
19:26
But at the time, for my local council, it was a foot in the door for me.
19:29
And again, I do a lot of work with them still now.
19:32
And it's kind of, you have to judge,
19:36
you know, is it worth doing this job for free?
19:40
You know, only that person will know at the time whether they
19:43
think that's worthwhile and there will be work to be done.
19:47
You definitely shouldn't do too much of it for free, obviously,
19:49
but that kind of worked for me.
19:52
Also, Friends of Friends got jobs at team building agencies and event agencies.
20:01
And got me in there again.
20:02
There's not really a kind of way I would get my work.
20:05
It's just sort of a lot of my friends do video work as well.
20:08
And they will obviously say, Oh, you know, you need a photographer yet.
20:12
My guy, I'll hook you up and get work that way.
20:16
Corporate stuff is different in terms of.
20:19
It is a lot less creatively.
20:21
I, you'll go to a conference and it will just be shot for this speaker,
20:25
shot for this speaker, shot for this speaker, people, you know, networking.
20:29
And there's not that much room for creativity, but it's kind of, you are
20:32
literally there to provide a service.
20:34
You're creating content for them to put out on their socials within
20:37
a defined brand style of whoever the client is, which is obviously
20:42
completely different to weddings.
20:45
For me, I enjoy it.
20:46
Cause it's, I've got to a point now where I, I, a lot of my clients are regular.
20:52
So it's, I see people I know there and it's kind of, it's, it almost,
20:56
it doesn't feel like work sometimes.
20:57
And I mean, I've, I've done some bizarre jobs over the years,
21:02
done crystal maze themed days.
21:05
I've been in a crystal dome, had a go at that.
21:06
That was cool.
21:08
I didn't get a crystal though.
21:08
What else have I done?
21:11
Done like, I did a thing for P& O Ferries and it was like,
21:13
they're AGM got cruise for you?
21:16
It's like a.
21:17
Have I got, you know, have I got news for you?
21:19
Kind of rip off on there.
21:20
And quite often you're there doing these things and you're sort of
21:23
like, I can't believe, I can't believe I'm getting paid to do this.
21:25
This is so weird.
21:27
But yeah, that, that's kind of, it is a completely different beast to
21:32
weddings, but that's not to say if you, if you can do a job at a wedding,
21:35
you can do a job in corporate, it's different, but it's not that different.
21:38
You just have to.
21:40
adjust your mindset and your expectations of, of, of what you're doing.
21:44
Becca: And it's a very different kind of industry, talking about the
21:47
fact that you did some work for free.
21:49
I mean, often I talk about not doing weddings for free, but that's because
21:52
you, you do your wedding for free, they're only going to get married once.
21:54
Whereas actually in business, in corporate, if you do one job for the
21:57
council for free and they like it, that could then lead to multiple bookings
22:00
every single year for the next decade.
22:02
So it is a slightly different mindset in that way, because you're much
22:05
more likely to get repeat business.
22:06
I'm guessing the time frames are shorted, you have to get the photos
22:09
back to people a lot quicker?
22:11
Kevin: Yeah, I mean most of the, most events I do, as a matter
22:13
of course, I deliver the images.
22:16
But I mean, even with a wedding, I, I tend to deliver all of the full gallery within
22:21
two weeks, which is apparently quite fast.
22:23
I'm always told, but I'm kind of, I think it's just ingrained in me
22:26
from my, my first day of working that you turn around stuff fast.
22:30
And it's, it's again, something that's always stuck with me, but I hear like
22:34
some people take sort of three or four months to get a gallery back.
22:37
And that just like, I can't even get my head around that.
22:41
It has to be quicker than that, from my point of view, anyway.
22:44
Becca: That's from your days of press though, because in press you have
22:46
to get everything within minutes, not even within days or weeks.
22:49
It literally has to be there straight away.
22:51
And I think one other hurdle that people come across when it comes to jumping
22:55
into corporate side of things, whether that's photography or even videography,
22:59
flowers, all sorts of different places, and people can work in corporate,
23:03
is working out How much to charge?
23:05
Now, you don't need to go into detail about your rates, but how
23:08
did you work out how to set a rate?
23:10
Do you do a day rate, a half day rate?
23:11
And how does that kind of compare to when you're pricing up a wedding?
23:14
Kevin: Okay, so for wedding, I, I literally have just, I'm there for the
23:18
day and they get an online gallery and a pre wedding shoot and that is a set fee.
23:24
How do you price corporate work?
23:25
I mean, It is a kind of, there's so many variables, it's really hard to know.
23:31
There's some clients where I simply ask them what their budget is
23:34
and then work it out from there.
23:37
Generally I have a kind of half day or a day rate, so you quite often
23:43
get inquiries where they'll go, yeah it's only a quick like half
23:45
hour job or something, it never is.
23:47
It never is because it's a half day because by the time you've driven there
23:51
or gone into London, if it's in London and you've had, it's always a half day.
23:55
So that's, that's just nonsense.
23:57
You never have a quick half hour job.
24:00
So yeah, I kind of, and also balance it up.
24:03
Do I want to do the job?
24:04
Really?
24:05
If I do, then perhaps I might, you know, if it's a, I don't know, like
24:08
someone, I really, a famous person that's presenting an award and the budget's
24:12
not quite where I'd want it to be, but I quite want to shoot that person.
24:15
And then perhaps I'll be like that.
24:17
I'll, I'll do it.
24:18
I mean, it, it, it's, it's a lot less defined than weddings and there's a lot of
24:22
sort of, you might have to back and forth a little bit and kind of get a steer.
24:27
Generally, if someone's emailed you, they like your work, so you've got
24:31
a bit of a kind of starting point that they obviously want to book you.
24:34
But then there's some that you can, you can definitely tell it's just like
24:37
a generic email that's gone round to several people and half the time I
24:40
probably don't even reply to those.
24:42
Because they're going to be just after the cheapest person how I
24:45
got my rates in the first place.
24:46
I just kind of did a bit of research on other photographers sites because a
24:50
lot of corporate photographers do have prices on their site or like a from,
24:55
and just kind of, you, you get, you get a steer just from speaking to other
25:01
people and often I've got a network of all local photographers and they'll
25:06
be, Oh, I'm busy this day, could you maybe cover and the price will be this.
25:09
And you can sort of just gauge roughly what they're.
25:12
their prices are there.
25:13
It's not an exact science.
25:16
It completely depends on the requirements of the job, how long, where it is.
25:20
It might, you know, it might, I'm in Hertfordshire, but if it's a job
25:23
right up north, then you've got to factor in that you're going to lose a
25:26
day or half a day, sorry, traveling.
25:29
And you've still got to be paid for that as well.
25:31
Because when you're there, you're not, you can't be working on anything else.
25:35
So it's a bit of, Speak to the client, ask what their budget is
25:40
and just kind of back and forth and see if you can agree on a figure.
25:45
So it's not a very good answer, but.
25:46
Becca: No, it is because it's really helpful because these are the things
25:48
that I like to ask, cause these are the things that people sitting at home are
25:52
wondering about and thinking, I don't even know where to get started with that.
25:55
And actually having some, kind of thoughts on how you do it is, is
26:00
incredibly, incredibly helpful.
26:02
Okay, so let's talk then about time management because we talked about a
26:06
lot of things that you do in your life.
26:08
You're doing weddings, you're doing corporate, you're doing headshots,
26:10
you're doing all of these things.
26:12
But I also know you're a family man.
26:14
I often see pictures on Facebook of you at your kids football matches
26:18
or going to watch Stevenage Town.
26:19
So how do you balance it all?
26:20
How do you keep that time with your family a priority as well
26:24
as having all of this work?
26:25
Kevin: Yeah, it's really hard and my wife's a teacher as well, so in
26:31
most evenings she's kind of doing lesson planning and stuff like that.
26:35
How we do it is we just kind of block out days where we're just
26:38
like, I'm not going to work that day.
26:40
And we, I, well, I won't ever work when the, when my boys are at home.
26:47
I might, like, reply to an email on my phone, but I won't
26:49
sit doing anything on that.
26:52
I'll just wait till they go to bed and do any editing when they're not here.
26:56
Or, Both, both mine are in full time school now, so I obviously
27:01
have a lot of time during the day that I can get my, my work done.
27:04
But I, I just feel that they're only young for such a kind of small time.
27:09
You don't want to waste it working, because work, work's important,
27:13
but it's not that important.
27:14
Becca: And do you limit how many weekends you do?
27:16
Because I think that's one of the big things in our industry, is that actually,
27:19
quite often, there's a lot of weekends that are involved and that does feel
27:23
like it can eat up into your family time.
27:25
Do you have kind of a limit on that?
27:26
Or are you just seeing how it goes as it goes along?
27:29
Kevin: No, I don't have a limit on it, but I generally will
27:32
never work a whole weekend.
27:34
One day or the other.
27:36
Corporate work very, very rarely is weekends anyway.
27:40
And I don't do loads of weddings.
27:43
Like, I'm not stacked out every weekend doing weddings.
27:45
I probably do like 10 to 12 a year.
27:49
So over the year, it's not, so yeah, I, weekends I kind of try
27:53
to keep them as clear as possible.
27:55
So I run my, one of my son, well, I do bits of both my son's football team.
27:59
So that's kind of, I often think like, what did I used
28:02
to do before I had children?
28:04
Because I had so much free, I thought I had so much free time,
28:06
but obviously I have none now.
28:08
I just, I just think it's, it's all individual.
28:11
We are just a busy family and we're kind of cool with that.
28:14
And that's how we've always been.
28:15
But as I say, I just don't work when they're here and try and they're, they've
28:20
always got some kind of club or, you know, some, you know, you know, the drill,
28:23
something or other for them to go to.
28:25
So yeah, you just have to find the balance and, and make sure they're,
28:30
they're like the most important thing and what some, some people
28:34
sell, like my business is my life.
28:35
My, mine isn't, mine is just, part of my life that I, that I use to earn money.
28:41
And that, that, that's the reality.
28:43
Family is, is my kind of, is the most important thing as it
28:46
probably is for, for most people.
28:48
Becca: Yeah.
28:48
And I, I think me and you are leading parallel lives at the moment because
28:52
I basically spend my entire weekends on the side of a football pitch,
28:55
watching football with my children.
28:57
But I think I've, I lean into that exactly as you say that actually,
29:01
that's the thing that, Brings me joy.
29:02
And quite often I see people struggling, especially when you first have
29:07
kids and they're young, because you feel that push and pull like, Oh,
29:09
they're taking me away from my work.
29:12
But actually I'm trying to shift that mindset and think actually
29:15
my works, I don't want my work to take me away from my kids.
29:18
And I think when we realize actually what's most important in this situation,
29:21
is it me sitting down on my phone and replying to emails, or is it be
29:24
being present in the moment and taking them to every club under the planet,
29:28
because actually one day in probably not that long, They'll be gone.
29:31
They'll have moved out.
29:32
They'll have moved on with their lives.
29:33
And that moment is, it's a cliche, but it is fleeting.
29:36
And I can see it already disappearing in front of me.
29:39
So I think if you're listening to this and you're in that struggle,
29:43
sometimes it's just about readdressing it in your own head and realizing
29:46
it's not your kids taking away.
29:47
That's a choice you've made to have the children and like find ways to
29:50
make your business work around your kids rather than the other way around.
29:54
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.
29:55
And what I say is I don't, I don't want it to sound like I've, I've got
29:59
it perfectly sorted all the time.
30:00
I definitely don't.
30:01
There's times where I'm kind of, I don't know how I'm going to fit all this in.
30:04
And, you know, the way I look at it, if you can kind of get it right 75 percent
30:08
of the time, then you generally You know, I, I, I get emails late at night
30:15
and to be honest, it's like, there's nothing that can't wait till the morning.
30:18
And to be honest, I, I, I don't reply unless it's someone asking me
30:22
for my bank details to pay me, then obviously I'll reply straight away.
30:24
But but no, generally.
30:26
email can wait and I reply in emails in sort of office hours.
30:30
Becca: Yeah, which is good boundaries to have, but none of us
30:32
have it perfect all of the time.
30:33
I wish we did.
30:35
If someone can point me to the person who has the perfect balance between
30:38
their business, their kids, their family and general life, then I'd
30:41
love to meet them and talk to them on this podcast because I think we all,
30:44
we all struggle one way or another.
30:47
100%.
30:48
So, Kevin, at the beginning of this episode, I introduced you
30:51
and I said, you are an OG, you are one of my original members.
30:54
So first of all, thank you for your loyalty, for still being
30:57
around all these years later.
30:59
I do appreciate it.
31:00
For you, what is it about kind of being in a community or being part of
31:05
the members that you've enjoyed over the years, even if you're not always
31:08
around for all of the things, because there'll be people listening to this
31:11
and thinking, I don't know why I should ever join a community like that.
31:14
I don't understand what it's all about.
31:15
What would you say to them?
31:16
Kevin: What's good about it is, is that you can kind of, you can raise
31:20
any issues that you might have in your business with other like minded
31:24
suppliers that are probably having the same problem or issue and it, you know,
31:29
sometimes just sharing it, problems shared and all that sort of thing.
31:34
Just to hear other people's viewpoints.
31:36
And sometimes you can read a reply to something and think, Oh, do you know what?
31:40
I probably wouldn't have ever thought about it that way, but it's just cause
31:43
you can, you, you can talk about work to your partner, but at the end of the
31:45
day, if they're not in the industry, you're in there, you can only kind of.
31:49
Listen and sort of they don't, they don't understand that is the bottom line.
31:53
So just to have other, other people to understand your situation
31:57
and what you're trying to do.
31:58
And you know, if you're struggling to get bookings or you've got too many
32:01
bookings and you don't know how to deal with it, but also it's good to have a
32:06
network, especially in a photography standpoint, you know, if you come down
32:12
and you, you know, you break your leg in like before wedding, you need to
32:15
have a network of people that you, you can trust and called up to cover you.
32:19
Cause things will happen.
32:21
I remember once on a wedding in the very early days driving between the church
32:25
and the venue, I got puncture and as it was, I did manage to get the puncture
32:29
change and get to the thing, but I called someone to be at the venue just in case.
32:34
And you know, it's things like that, a sort of a safety blanket
32:38
if, if you like, because you can't do everything on your own.
32:42
You've got to have a network around you.
32:43
Becca: Yeah, it's so important.
32:44
It's so important to have people.
32:45
I remember actually once, this is a couple of years ago, someone coming
32:48
into the members lounge while they were at a wedding and they went live in
32:51
the members lounge and basically said, help, this person hasn't turned up.
32:55
Is there anyone that can help anyone got any recommendations?
32:57
And everyone jumped on it to try and help them out of that hole.
33:00
I often say being in a community or being part of something like that, it's.
33:03
It is kind of an insurance policy.
33:05
You don't know that you need it until you need it.
33:07
Like quite often I'll have members in the group that haven't been particularly
33:11
active very much for ages or they may be dipping in and out of something and
33:14
then something goes wrong or someone disagrees with their contract or,
33:18
and they just don't know what to do.
33:20
And then they're like, Oh, thank goodness I could reach
33:22
out and talk to you about it.
33:23
So sometimes it's, it's just knowing that those people are there when you
33:27
need them and you never quite know.
33:28
when you might need someone.
33:29
And also the Christmas party is always fun, Kevin, isn't it?
33:32
Kevin: I was just, yeah, I was just going to say, well, sort of joking
33:35
aside though, we, we are working kind of quite singularly and quite often
33:40
you'll be stuck at home on your own.
33:41
So actually it's a, it's a, it's a really good thing to get out and just
33:45
see other suppliers that you might see all the time at weddings and you kind
33:48
of, because you're both there doing your jobs, you don't get a time to talk,
33:51
but you, you know, the socials, it's a good night and you can just have a chat
33:56
and chat about stuff that isn't always weddings that you don't get time to when
34:00
you see them at an event or a wedding.
34:03
Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
34:04
And when we're self employed, we don't have our corporate Christmas
34:06
parties, so we've got to do something to have fun and get together.
34:09
So I look forward every year to the next Christmas party because it's
34:12
always a really, really fun night.
34:14
Kevin, it's been so fun to talk to you today.
34:17
Thanks I always end the podcast with the same question and it's this.
34:20
What's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your own business?
34:24
Kevin: One thing I wish I'd known sooner is to not look at what everyone,
34:28
all your competitors are doing.
34:29
Because if you look online, they'll all be fully booked.
34:32
They'll all be busy.
34:33
They'll all be smashing like amazing weddings or events.
34:36
And you'll be like, Oh, mine aren't like that.
34:38
You've literally got to just play your own game at your own pace and, and
34:42
find your own way and just be yourself.
34:44
Don't try and copy anyone.
34:45
Because what You know, what works for them won't work for you.
34:48
Just make sure, you know, you've got a website that shows off your
34:52
best stuff and use your kind of USP, which is you and your personality
34:57
and how you are with people.
34:58
That's kind of my thing that maybe I didn't do as much when I started
35:02
out, but I learned quite quickly that's not a way to be successful.
35:06
Becca: And I'm glad you learned that because I love the way you do things.
35:08
I love that you don't just do everything that everyone else is doing and I
35:12
love that you have your own path.
35:13
You've got that corporate stuff that you're really successful at.
35:15
You've got your weddings.
35:16
And you've got your family, so you can spend lots of time
35:18
on the football pitch, Kevin.
35:19
If people want to find out more about you or chat to you more about
35:22
your corporate work, where's the best place for them to find you?
35:24
Kevin: So my website is www.
35:26
kevinlines.
35:28
co.
35:28
uk.
35:29
That's probably the best way.
35:30
It's got my email on there and they can just, I'm happy to
35:34
chat to anyone about anything.
35:35
I don't charge, I don't charge anything for my advice.
35:38
The thing is at the end of the day, we're not all going to be around
35:41
forever and there's always going to be a new generation coming up.
35:43
So kind of share the knowledge.
35:45
And help, help people out and you might find that you might get
35:48
something out of it yourself one day.
35:50
You never know.
35:50
Becca: Yeah.
35:51
A hundred percent.
35:51
I totally agree.
35:52
So if you're listening to this and you've got questions, feel free to reach out to
35:55
Kevin or come into the members lounge and come to the next Christmas party and then
35:59
you can sit next to him and have a beer just before Christmas later this year.
36:04
Kevin, it's been such a pleasure as always.
36:06
Thank you for your time.
36:08
Kevin: Thanks for having me on.
36:10
Becca: Such a fun conversation with Kevin.
36:12
I always, always love talking to my clients and just finding
36:15
out more about their journeys.
36:16
I hope as the listener, you can see that we're just keeping it real around here,
36:20
talking about how people actually get to where they are, rather than pretending
36:23
that there's some magic route that you've got to pay thousands of pounds for.
36:26
And I love that quote that Kevin shared earlier.
36:28
I want pictures, not excuses.
36:30
I think we can all walk away from that.
36:32
And in Becca's terms, that would be, I want action, not excuses.
36:36
I'll see you next time.