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Creativity with Sonal Kamalia · Lean Out Podcast

0:01
Welcome to the lean out podcast.
0:03
I'm your host, Dr.
0:04
Don baker.
0:05
Are you looking for a new approach to finding authentic and sustainable work-life balance?
0:10
You've come to the right.
0:11
Place.
0:11
For inspiration.
0:12
information.
0:13
and a community.
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community.
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of like-minded.
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Professionals.
0:16
Let's get to the show.
0:24
Hello?
0:25
Hello.
0:25
Thanks for being here.
0:26
I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving holiday.
0:29
We had a surprise need to flee our homestead last week.
0:33
So that was interesting.
0:35
And it was due to an incoming large storm.
0:38
When you live on a road that is not plowed, there's always a little bit of a game of roulette to figure out when you're going to need to start using your tracked vehicle every year.
0:49
And it happened to be.
0:51
Last week for us now, luckily we were able to get back up to our property and enjoy a nice Thanksgiving dinner there.
1:00
But the reason that we really had to get out and go down to town is that we want to have our chickens down on our property.
1:09
In the nearby town, it's a little bit warmer and that's where we plan on having them in the winter.
1:15
So they're in a coop on wheels.
1:17
And if we didn't get them out last week, there was going to be this big storm.
1:23
Pretty soon that part of the road wouldn't be drivable.
1:26
So.
1:28
I was all sorts of worried about this plan to haul the coop out and to take them down to our land and town, because it's a new setup.
1:35
They're young.
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And we've never done this at all before, but it totally worked out fine.
1:43
I thought it was going to stress the chickens out.
1:45
I thought that they were going to fly all around in the coop.
1:48
I thought that their COO might fall apart on the road.
1:50
I thought they might stop laying eggs again, but no, none of this happened in fact, two of them are laying eggs now and that's better than zero.
2:00
We got a laugh out of my worries though, because most of the time you get a lot of worries in your head, but things just work out fine.
2:09
I have a couple more interviews for you this season, including today's episode.
2:13
But after that, I may publish one more solo cast.
2:17
If I can get it in before taking a break until the new year.
2:21
I already have some awesome guests lined up for next season.
2:25
In the midst of holiday travel and some work, I'm also continuing to package up my lean out confidence course so I can offer it to you in the new year.
2:33
And if you haven't done.
2:34
So please go over to practice balance.com/l O C C.
2:40
So you can get on the interest list and become one of the first people to know when the course is ready.
2:47
My guest today is Dr.
2:48
Sono Kamala.
2:50
Sona is a hospitalist, an artist and a coach.
2:54
She supports people who want to work on their hobbies, passion projects, and other creative endeavors.
3:00
But they struggled to find time, space and energy to do so.
3:04
She conducts one-on-one coaching and also mindful art workshops.
3:09
In this episode, we talk about Sonas departure from full-time internal medicine works so she could focus more on her own art and helping others make art.
3:18
She discusses going against cultural expectations of what a doctor's career should look like.
3:23
And she gives helpful tips on how to break out of a creativity, rut.
3:28
Here is my conversation with Sono.
3:33
SK-Dawn: Sonal Kamalia, thank you for being on the Lean Out podcast.
3:39
SK-Sonal: Thank you for having me, Dawn.
3:41
SK-Dawn: You are most welcome.
3:43
SK-Dawn: Can you give us an introduction of yourself and talk about what your work life balance looks like currently?
3:50
SK-Sonal: So I'm a hospitalist in Colorado, and I'm an artist, and I'm a coach.
3:57
SK-Sonal: And I basically work around the areas of creativity and mind body work.
4:02
SK-Sonal: Outside of work, I love the metaphysical world, and I really like to read about it.
4:07
SK-Sonal: I love the outdoors.
4:08
SK-Sonal: I love to hike.
4:09
SK-Sonal: Reading is another thing that actually keeps me very grounded.
4:12
SK-Sonal: My morning probably likely starts with tea and a book.
4:15
SK-Sonal: Traveling is another thing that I really enjoy.
4:18
SK-Sonal: One of the few things that I really enjoy while traveling is actually people watch and I can spend hours doing that.
4:24
SK-Sonal: I, work PRN.
4:26
SK-Sonal: So I, maybe do about one to six shifts a month.
4:29
SK-Sonal: And that kind of gives me a lot of balance in terms of.
4:33
SK-Sonal: Working on other things that I enjoy and also keeping me connected to myself and my family, because I realized that when I was working full time, I was fighting for time between, between work and between my art life and between my coach life, and I really found it difficult to like find my me time.
4:54
SK-Sonal: So this works out.
4:56
SK-Sonal: Perfectly for me where I can modulate my time as I want to.
5:01
SK-Dawn: How long have you been doing the PRN hospitalist work?
5:06
SK-Sonal: So I only started that in July.
5:08
SK-Sonal: I actually wasn't a visa.
5:10
SK-Sonal: So I had to work fairly full time until then.
5:14
SK-Sonal: But even before that, based on how much the hospital allowed, I actually kind of had started cutting back.
5:22
SK-Dawn: And was there a particular turning point or an event that happened or something that led you to decide, now is the time I need to make this change?
5:33
SK-Sonal: So even when I was actually in, in medical school and residency, I always knew that I wanted to go to art school at some point, not really to become an.
5:42
SK-Sonal: Artist in a professional way, but just to, I enjoyed it.
5:45
SK-Sonal: And, you know, I, I did not really do any art during that time.
5:49
SK-Sonal: Like there was really no time or I didn't know how to find time.
5:53
SK-Sonal: After that, when I first got into my job, I picked up art again and I was very happy while I was doing it.
5:58
SK-Sonal: Like it, it kept me in my zone.
6:00
SK-Sonal: No one existed when I did it.
6:02
SK-Sonal: And I think slowly With time as I was working, I realized that I wasn't enjoying medicine that much.
6:10
SK-Sonal: I wasn't enjoying the system.
6:12
SK-Sonal: And I also realized that it wasn't medicine that I enjoyed.
6:15
SK-Sonal: I actually, I wasn't a residency program, like where I was teaching residents and that's the part I really enjoyed.
6:22
SK-Sonal: And, the more that I spent time in my work and doing art.
6:26
SK-Sonal: I wanted to do more and more of art.
6:28
SK-Sonal: So I was already struggling with this battle inside, I struggled with thoughts, like, am I doing the right thing?
6:35
SK-Sonal: I got into medicine to serve and, you know, if I leave it, will I be serving?
6:40
SK-Sonal: Also like I have put so much into it.
6:43
SK-Sonal: These were thoughts that I was struggling with.
6:45
SK-Sonal: And, when I got really burnt out and I started, looking for, ways to help myself, like, through coaching I actually realized that medicine is not the only way to serve.
6:57
SK-Sonal: Uh, you can serve even being as an artist, because if your work speaks to someone and it is creating a reaction from them, it is helping them in some ways.
7:09
SK-Sonal: Even as a coach, you can help someone because you can actually help them with being more self aware and taking care of what they really want, you're actually serving them.
7:22
SK-Sonal: So I think these were some parts that actually made me be okay with what I wanted to do.
7:27
SK-Sonal: And even pursue medicine for how much ever long that I needed to pursue it with the thought that when the time is.
7:34
SK-Sonal: I will be able to take off like the fight wasn't there any longer.
7:39
SK-Sonal: The other thing that I realized is, why I really came into medicine, I think part of it was.
7:45
SK-Sonal: It was a way of feeling worth within myself because, where I grew up being a doctor or an engineer were worthy of professions.
7:56
SK-Sonal: So I think unconsciously I chose to do medicine and not that I don't like helping people.
8:03
SK-Sonal: I do, but I think I realized that I need to do it in my own way.
8:07
SK-Sonal: That's so.
8:08
SK-Sonal: me and serves them.
8:11
SK-Dawn: Yeah, that is such a key insight, and it's funny how you said the gold standard of, professions is the engineer or the doctor, um, where you grew up.
8:22
SK-Dawn: It's true for a lot of people, and I have so many questions and thoughts.
8:28
SK-Dawn: One is you said that you really enjoy teaching, but now you're doing per diem or PRN hospitalist and presumably you don't teach as much.
8:38
SK-Dawn: Do you feel like you still get a sense of fulfillment in medicine now at that lower frequency of work?
8:47
SK-Sonal: I do in some ways.
8:49
SK-Sonal: Even with my patient interactions, I also realized that most of my interactions when I talk to patients is not really about medicine or what I'm doing.
8:59
SK-Sonal: It's really About life.
9:02
SK-Sonal: So.
9:03
SK-Sonal: Indirectly, I am talking to them about life, about my experiences.
9:07
SK-Sonal: I'm learning from them.
9:08
SK-Sonal: I'm teaching them in my own way.
9:10
SK-Sonal: So I think those are my best interactions with my patients.
9:13
SK-Sonal: And that's the part that I find really fulfilling.
9:16
SK-Sonal: And also, you know, with my coaching stuff, there's a lot of back and forth learning and teaching involved.
9:23
SK-Dawn: Oh yeah, that's true.
9:24
SK-Dawn: So you get that role of being a teacher in a different way than you used to have.
9:29
SK-Dawn: So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
9:32
SK-Dawn: You do coaching on helping people to learn how to tap into their creativity.
9:40
SK-Dawn: So tell me about that.
9:43
SK-Sonal: After I got really burnt out, while I was going through the phase, I actually, you know, one of the first things that we are in a tough situation of when life feels like hell are the things that we do.
9:57
SK-Sonal: We leave behind the things that actually fulfill our soul.
10:01
SK-Sonal: Not that we want to leave it, but it's something that just doesn't even come to our mind.
10:06
SK-Sonal: Or even if we want to get to it, we find it frivolous.
10:09
SK-Sonal: So, during that time, I actually, wasn't even able to pick up my art and it didn't really hurt me that I was struggling with burnout like it didn't even come across my mind but I struggled with the fact that I could not pick up my camera and even when I got better from, my burnout phase, I was still I suddenly started having these blocks that I never had about comparing myself to my current me and to my old me.
10:39
SK-Sonal: I was comparing myself to others works.
10:42
SK-Sonal: I was just getting overwhelmed with the idea of doing it or feeling I'm not good enough.
10:48
SK-Sonal: So what I really do is actually help people Like find the time energy space in their daily life to do it and also help them through these blocks.
11:00
SK-Sonal: My work also has a lot of, creative activities where they can actually become self aware of what their thoughts and of what they're thinking while they're doing it.
11:09
SK-Sonal: So these same concepts that we actually use.
11:14
SK-Sonal: To create art is actually how we create life.
11:19
SK-Sonal: So, that's basically what I try to help people with.
11:22
SK-Sonal: And it's, it's one of my biggest joys when, when I see someone really doing what they want to do,
11:28
SK-Dawn: I love how in the beginning when I asked you to describe yourself and introduce yourself, you listed all of these interests and things that you care about.
11:39
SK-Dawn: Just as a personal aside, I want to know how you foster your interest in spirituality.
11:46
SK-Dawn: Can you talk a little bit more about that?
11:48
SK-Sonal: So I actually believe that we all are one and we are all more alike than we are different.
11:56
SK-Sonal: I also believe that there is a higher power that guides us.
12:01
SK-Sonal: Keeps us connected.
12:03
SK-Sonal: We come into this world to learn lessons and whatever we go through in life.
12:10
SK-Sonal: is probably what we are meant to learn there will be difficult parts that we are, But if we just trust that there is someone taking care of us, and, this is in some ways meant to be a path to evolve in life, things will just feel easier.
12:36
SK-Dawn: Well, it's a beautiful realization, and how do you guide people to get from the place of, I don't feel like I'm enough, I'm not really sure how to tap into my creativity, I want more but I don't know what, to that place that you're describing now.
12:59
SK-Sonal: I think one of the most important things is noting, like noticing what's going on.
13:05
SK-Sonal: And a lot of times it's very normal for us to actually repress our emotions.
13:10
SK-Sonal: And sometimes we may not even have a word for what we are feeling.
13:15
SK-Sonal: And so it's really important for me to actually just help them settle into what they're feeling and express it physically through their body.
13:26
SK-Sonal: Like, more like emotional regulation to get them to a space where they can feel settled and safe.
13:33
SK-Sonal: And then start working on what's going on.
13:36
SK-Sonal: I think the other thing is also making them realize that, like, this is something that I also struggle with and it took me a while to get to here.
13:45
SK-Sonal: Is that we all are unique and I am me, you are you.
13:50
SK-Sonal: And to embrace that me ness and that uniqueness.
13:56
SK-Dawn: Yeah, absolutely.
13:59
SK-Dawn: What would you say has been the hardest part for you to make this transition from what you feel you should be doing to what feels natural and the combination of art and of medicine that is right for you?
14:17
SK-Sonal: I think once I switched to PR and there was suddenly a lot of time I had, one of the most difficult part was not realizing that it's still important to have structure because days could just flow without actually having done anything.
14:36
SK-Sonal: So once I realized that I started having some structure and things have become a lot easier.
14:42
SK-Sonal: and the other thing I realized that it's very easy to go from one hustle to another hustle.
14:49
SK-Sonal: So as soon as I left the full time medical hustle, I got into putting myself out there as a coach hustle.
14:56
SK-Sonal: And, uh, um, it was again, not taking care of myself when you got into that hustle.
15:01
SK-Sonal: So it's a really.
15:03
SK-Sonal: realizing that and dedicating time where I feel connected to me, I feel connected to my family.
15:10
SK-Sonal: So I, I try to like not do anything on the weekends and sometimes try to include my Friday with my weekends.
15:19
SK-Sonal: try to not do anything after a certain point in the day where work is concerned.
15:24
SK-Sonal: And of course, life gets in the way.
15:25
SK-Sonal: Sometimes you have to, but I, uh, it's a conscious effort not to do it and then take chunks of time every couple of weeks where it's just.
15:39
SK-Dawn: Absolutely.
15:40
SK-Dawn: I can identify with that wholeheartedly, the idea of trading one hustle for another.
15:46
SK-Dawn: Um, you can get burned out doing anything, and if you're prone to that, amount of work life balance shifts is going to solve that until you figure out the idea that you set of boundaries and of what you value and what you want to prioritize.
16:07
SK-Dawn: I've also not had anyone ever say to that question that you realized that you still needed structure even though you had so much more free time.
16:17
SK-Dawn: So tell me a little bit more about that.
16:19
SK-Dawn: How did you figure out how to structure your days or your weeks when you had so much more downtime?
16:28
SK-Sonal: So I make it a point to, take care of my physical health, which again, you know, when I got into the PRM thing, I was like, now I will be able to go to the gym or to swim or to hike every day.
16:40
SK-Sonal: But I realized that getting into the hustle, I was leaving that part again behind.
16:46
SK-Sonal: So now I dedicate time for that.
16:49
SK-Sonal: I joined a studio where I can actually go work on my art stuff.
16:53
SK-Sonal: So I make it a point to go there a few times a week.
16:58
SK-Sonal: I even dedicate slack times during the day.
17:02
SK-Sonal: Where you just do things that only fill your soul or even sit and have your cup of tea without doing anything.
17:11
SK-Sonal: Where you're just being with yourself.
17:13
SK-Sonal: That's how I structure my time.
17:15
SK-Sonal: Like I'll have a slack time everyday.
17:17
SK-Sonal: I'll have, Some art time every day.
17:20
SK-Sonal: I'll have workout time.
17:23
SK-Sonal: Yeah.
17:23
SK-Sonal: And after five o'clock, it's just family time.
17:27
SK-Dawn: It sounds glorious.
17:29
SK-Dawn: And I know from personal experience in the past, and then also from listening to clients talk about this issue, that it can be very difficult to let go of all of the to dos and to prioritize time in your day that you really are doing nothing because you feel in the beginning while you're transitioning and you're not quite accepting that new change that you feel like you have to be doing something and what am I forgetting?
18:03
SK-Dawn: What am I supposed to be doing right now?
18:06
SK-Sonal: It's very difficult to be honest.
18:08
SK-Sonal: It's, uh, I struggled with it, even though I had those times, I struggled with it initially, and I still struggle with it.
18:15
SK-Sonal: The best, best way for me to stop struggling with it is actually keep a hot cup of water with me and sipping it,
18:23
SK-Dawn: It's great.
18:25
SK-Dawn: Do you have people come to you where their creative block is related to writing or is it usually creating art?
18:35
SK-Sonal: So it's, it's anything.
18:37
SK-Sonal: When we think of art, we think of the traditional arts, but really it is being creative.
18:42
SK-Sonal: You could be wanting to knit a sweater for your granddaughter but you're having difficulty doing that.
18:47
SK-Sonal: You might want to learn baking, but you're having difficulty doing that.
18:50
SK-Sonal: You're having resistance, you know, it's the same kind of things that you come across.
18:56
SK-Sonal: So it doesn't matter what you're creating.
18:59
SK-Dawn: What kind of themes do you see when people uncover why they're resisting?
19:03
SK-Dawn: Mm
19:05
SK-Sonal: One of the common, Things is, already worrying about the product, so you already feel like you're not good enough, and, the other theme that I commonly see is, you don't know what to do, you don't know how to do what to do.
19:27
SK-Sonal: And again, I think it relates to not being good enough because I've seen people buy a lot of courses.
19:33
SK-Sonal: I actually was on that same path myself because I wanted to learn more and more.
19:38
SK-Sonal: But because you're scared to actually do, because you're scared of the product, you never put that.
19:43
SK-Sonal: ink to paper or that paint to paper
19:46
SK-Dawn: how can people let go of feeling not good enough and of that idea of the eye on the price and what, what the final product's gonna look like?
19:57
SK-Sonal: I think really realizing that it is about the process.
20:02
SK-Sonal: And I also ask people to actually just imagine the feeling of you doing it.
20:10
SK-Sonal: What would that feel like?
20:13
SK-Sonal: And also the way I work is I have these imaginary friends helping you in the process.
20:20
SK-Sonal: And, you carry along the friend with you for support to help you through your block.
20:29
SK-Dawn: Mm.
20:31
SK-Sonal: So
20:31
SK-Dawn: that idea.
20:31
SK-Sonal: like, so I like have a bodyguard to get over your fear.
20:35
SK-Sonal: You know, you imbibe the energy of the bodyguard or you carry them along to actually push you through it.
20:42
SK-Dawn: Yeah.
20:42
SK-Sonal: These are just tools to help, but yeah, those are some of the ways that I work.
20:48
SK-Dawn: Yeah.
20:50
SK-Dawn: Is there anything that you know now that you wish you had known as a younger woman in medicine, addicted to achievement and on the path that was the gold standard for your culture?
21:06
SK-Sonal: The one thing that I wish I knew was, knew was to keep holding on to the things that give me energy, you know, we have so many of these things that take away our energy, but we don't put it in, we are going to collapse.
21:21
SK-Sonal: But like I said earlier, it's very difficult to do that because it seems frivolous to do that.
21:26
SK-Sonal: So I think also having a community.
21:29
SK-Sonal: Or someone who can make sure that you do it.
21:35
SK-Sonal: Of course, no one can force you but courage you to keep the practice going.
21:40
SK-Sonal: I think that becomes very important.
21:42
SK-Sonal: I, I feel like had I held onto my art when I was, Going through the dumps.
21:47
SK-Sonal: I wouldn't have gone through it in such a bad way.
21:50
SK-Sonal: Not that I repented because I learned a lot.
21:53
SK-Sonal: That was probably my path to get to where I am today, but actually holding onto those things that give you energy and having a community to support you is so important.
22:03
SK-Dawn: I totally agree with that.
22:05
SK-Dawn: When I get clients who are very burned out, and a lot of times their chief complaint is very low energy, we have to go through a whole audit of energy management and figure out what specifically is taking away your energy each day.
22:23
SK-Dawn: What specifically do you do to try to gain the energy back?
22:26
SK-Dawn: Or do you do anything?
22:28
SK-Dawn: Do you know what to do?
22:29
SK-Dawn: What works for you?
22:32
SK-Dawn: Is there any last advice you would give people who are feeling burnt out, overwhelmed, and creatively blacked, like they want to be doing more fulfilling things, but aren't there yet?
22:47
SK-Sonal: I think it's important to really notice what's going on.
22:50
SK-Sonal: What thoughts are coming up and actually allow those, allow those feelings because a lot of time and to my own process, I actually was criticizing myself as to what is going on.
23:01
SK-Sonal: And we tend to do that because you're supposed to be this person who can do everything, you know?
23:07
SK-Sonal: So I think it's really important to notice what's going on and to allow those feelings and then actually ask for help because, asking for help is okay, you know, it's really okay to ask for help.
23:19
SK-Sonal: And, we also think that sometimes we can solve it all.
23:23
SK-Sonal: Sometimes you just need that help.
23:26
SK-Dawn: Yeah, absolutely.
23:27
SK-Dawn: It's part of the culture.
23:28
SK-Dawn: The culture is being the lone ranger, and look perfect, and you can do it on your own.
23:37
SK-Sonal: And, in terms of creativity, you feel that.
23:41
SK-Sonal: Making art is so simple, writing is so simple and you can always do it, but sometimes you do need help to even get through that.
23:51
SK-Sonal: We always think of it in terms of, we need a lot of time for it.
23:56
SK-Sonal: Right?
23:56
SK-Sonal: Like if I want to sit and paint, I should at least have one hour.
23:59
SK-Sonal: How about five minutes a day?
24:01
SK-Sonal: How about starting slow and just seeing what that feels like?
24:05
SK-Sonal: And if, if after that, your intuition tells you that you, you can do more, you do more, but how about just starting small and slow and taking it from there?
24:16
SK-Dawn: I love that.
24:18
SK-Dawn: That is great advice.
24:21
SK-Dawn: Sonal, tell us where we can find you if we want to learn more about your work or connect with you.
24:27
SK-Sonal: So I do have a website, www.
24:30
SK-Sonal: sonalkamalia.
24:31
SK-Sonal: com so they can find me there.
24:33
SK-Sonal: And, I'm there on Instagram as CreativeSanctuary.
24:37
SK-Sonal: SonalKamalya.
24:39
SK-Sonal: And I'm there on Facebook, there on LinkedIn, so you can find me in any of these places.
24:46
SK-Dawn: And that's Kamalia with a K.
24:48
SK-Sonal: Yes, that's Kamalya with a K.
24:51
SK-Dawn: Excellent.
24:51
SK-Dawn: Well, I'll make sure to put links in the show notes.
24:54
SK-Dawn: Sonal, thank you so much for coming on the show and for sharing your journey with us.
25:00
SK-Sonal: You're welcome, Dawn.
25:01
SK-Sonal: It was a pleasure talking to you.
25:05
I loved hearing about Sonas mission to help other physicians find their creative calling and release their own blocks.
25:12
Here are my takeaways from our conversation.
25:15
Number one asking for help is okay.
25:19
The culture of high octane professions is to press on like a lone ranger.
25:24
Vulnerability and asking for help are typically looked at as signs of weakness, but please ask for help if you need it.
25:32
Community and accountability go along way in getting out of a slump.
25:36
Community can look like a lot of things, friends, coworkers, a Facebook group.
25:42
A group workshop, like the ones Sono holds a coach, a mentor, a therapist, or more.
25:50
Number.
25:50
Too.
25:51
A lot of creative resistance comes from focusing on what the outcome should look like instead of enjoying the process.
25:58
Sona likes to suggest focusing on the feeling you have when you're in your creative endeavor.
26:04
Many of us worry about the product and it not being good enough when what we should be focusing on is just the journey.
26:12
Number three.
26:13
In the words of Sonal medicine is not the only way to serve.
26:18
If you want to be spending some of your time doing something other than your chosen profession, but you feel guilty for cutting back to do so.
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Remember that there are many ways that you can share your gifts with the world.
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They all have value.
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My parting question for you today is what creative endeavor have you been wanting to explore?
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Thanks for listening to the lean out podcast.
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If you find these conversations inspiring and useful, please forward them to a friend and also leave a review on iTunes or Spotify so that other people can find them easier.
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If you want to get in touch with me, you can find me at my website, practice balanced.com, where you can subscribe to my newsletter and get updates regularly about new podcast episodes, blog posts, speaking, engagements, and coaching services.
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You can also support my work by buying my book, lean out a professional woman's guide to finding authentic work-life balance for yourself, a friend, family member, or coworker.
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Have a great day and we'll see you next time