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What Happens in a Maximum Security Prison? · The Infographics Show Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Beyond Infographics. We're the show that goes past
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the simple charts and headlines to really understand the complex
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: systems around us.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: And today we're definitely going deep. We're looking into a
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: really challenging area restrictive housing and prisons.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Right. We're talking about the places designed to manage the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: most dangerous, the most disruptive individuals within maximum security facilities.
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  Speaker 2: It's about control fundamentally, the policies, the actual physical buildings,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the philosophies behind it all, and of course the human impact.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: It's much more complicated than just solitary confinement.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, so our mission today is to sort of decode
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: all of that. We want to connect the dots between,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: say the specific rules about how thick a wall needs
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: to be or staffing levels and the psychological effects of
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: extreme isolation.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: And we'll be looking at this through the lens of
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  Speaker 2: international standards too, like the UN's Mandela rules.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crucial context our analysis today. It's built on
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  Speaker 1: some pretty heavy duty sources.
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  Speaker 2: It really is. We've got a big National Institute of
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Correction study that looked at practices across the US. We've
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  Speaker 2: also got specific case studies, think places like USP Marian Arizona.
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  Speaker 2: Washington State's Intensive Units place is known for very strict.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Control, and we're layering onto that research about the brain.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: You know, what actually happens neurologically when someone is deprived
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: of social contact.
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  Speaker 2: It's a lot to unpack.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: It definitely is. And if you listening appreciate this kind
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: of in depth analysis going beyond the surface level, please
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: take a second right now and give Beyond Infographics a
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: five star rating. It really helps us keep doing this
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: kind of work.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: So Okay, to really grasp why these restrictive solutions exist,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: we have to start with the problem they're trying to solve.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Who are the people that end up in these units exactly?
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  Speaker 1: Let's transition into defining that population and the frankly immense
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  Speaker 1: pressures these systems are under.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: You know, when people hear disruptive inmate, I think they
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  Speaker 2: often picture like a huge riot or someone taking hostages,
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  Speaker 2: big dramatic events, right, the Hollywood version exactly. But the reality,
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  Speaker 2: according to the NIC study, is that the day to
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  Speaker 2: day grind, the real operational strain, comes from more persistent lower.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Level stuff, things like what specifically.
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  Speaker 2: Well, refusing orders obviously, but also constant verbal abuse directed
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  Speaker 2: at staff, throwing things, food, water, sometimes even bodily fluids.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: You're in feces. That's incredibly difficult for staff to deal with.
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  Speaker 1: I can only imagine, and things like contraband, making.
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  Speaker 2: Weapons, yes, and even just forcing movement an inmate refusing
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  Speaker 2: to leave the reckyard, for example. It sounds simple, maybe,
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  Speaker 2: but it immediately triggers a whole high risk protocol, multiple officers,
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  Speaker 2: potential use of force, It grinds the unit to a halt.
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  Speaker 1: So it's this constant friction, this baseline level of resistance
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  Speaker 1: and danger.
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  Speaker 2: It is. But then, of course there are the actions
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  Speaker 2: that trigger plays into the most restrictive housing, the absolute
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: top tier.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so what are those defining behaviors what gets you
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  Speaker 1: sent to one of these specialized units.
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  Speaker 2: The study as agency is exactly that, and the answers
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  Speaker 2: were pretty consistent. Murder and hostage taking were critical factors
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  Speaker 2: for literally one hundred percent of the agencies unsurprising right
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  Speaker 2: and close behind nearly ninety percent listed deadly assault, also
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: making or smuggling serious weapons. We're talking firearms, explosives, even
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  Speaker 2: poison gas.
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  Speaker 1: So it's really about posing an existential threat to the
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: institution or the people in it not just being difficult.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Precisely, it's that level of danger that justifies this extreme
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: level of segregation.
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  Speaker 1: And what about the background of these individuals. Does the
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  Speaker 1: data show anything about, say, education or skills.
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  Speaker 2: It does, and it points to some well systemic issues.
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  Speaker 2: Over sixty percent of this specific population hadn't finished high school.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: That high Yeah, And generally they were more likely to
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  Speaker 2: lack basic academic or vocational skills compared to inmates in
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  Speaker 2: the general popular which is sort.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Of a tragic irony, isn't it. Yeah. The people who
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  Speaker 1: might benefit most from educational programs are the ones whose
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  Speaker 1: behavior puts them in places where those programs are least available.
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  Speaker 2: That's exactly the dilemma. Their lack of skills might even
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  Speaker 2: contribute to their inability to navigate the rules, leading to
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  Speaker 2: more conflict and deeper segregation. Hashtag tag tag two point
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  Speaker 2: two special management needs.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so beyond the security threats, there's another layer of
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  Speaker 1: complexity special management needs, particularly mental health. The stats you
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  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier about mentally ill inmates in these units, they're
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  Speaker 1: all over the.
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  Speaker 2: Place, they really were. The percentage identified as mentally ill
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  Speaker 2: ranged from zero in over half the agency surveyed all
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  Speaker 2: the way up to almost thirty two percent in one state, Nebraska.
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  Speaker 1: Zero percent. That seems unlikely. Does that mean those agencies
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  Speaker 1: just don't have mentally ill inmates in restrictive housing.
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  Speaker 2: It's more likely a policy thing. Many agencies explicitly stated
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: that their policies don't allow housing mentally ill prisoners in
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  Speaker 2: these standards disruptive units.
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  Speaker 1: Ah, okay, So the behavior might be driven by the illness,
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  Speaker 1: but policy dictates they go somewhere.
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  Speaker 2: Else exactly because the standard unit is built purely for
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  Speaker 2: security and control through you know, punishment and taking away privileges.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: That's often totally inappropriate, even harmful. If the disruptive behavior
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: stems from a mental illness.
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  Speaker 1: Where they go. You mentioned specialized.
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  Speaker 2: Units, right, specialized forensic units. These are different. They're designed
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  Speaker 2: not just to contain, but also to treat. The focus
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  Speaker 2: is on psychological intervention, continuous mental health staffing. The goal
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  Speaker 2: is stabilization, maybe eventually getting them back to a therapeutic setting,
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  Speaker 2: not just indefinite lockdown.
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  Speaker 1: That's a critical difference. Trying to manage severe mental illness
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  Speaker 1: with purely security tools sounds like it would just make
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  Speaker 1: things worse.
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  Speaker 2: It often does. And we also saw that about five
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  Speaker 2: percent of the disruptive population were perceived as having intellectual disabilities,
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  Speaker 2: which again requires a totally different approach. How So, well
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  Speaker 2: the standard behavior management systems, the phase programs were you
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  Speaker 2: earn privileges, those often just don't work for people with
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  Speaker 2: serious mental illness or developmental disabilities. Their behavior might not
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  Speaker 2: be fully within their control. Punishing them for symptoms is ineffective,
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  Speaker 2: incredibly stressful for everyone involved, and legally very shaky.
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  Speaker 1: So it really has to be mental health professionals making
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  Speaker 1: the call on placement and strategy.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it needs to be based on diagnosis, prognosis tailored intervention,
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  Speaker 2: not just a one size fits all security response hashtag
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: textags two point three pressures on correctional systems.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, let's zoom out a bit from the individual to
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  Speaker 1: the system itself. These units don't operate in a vacuum, right.
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  Speaker 1: They're facing huge external pressures.
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  Speaker 2: Immense pressures. Overcrowding is a constant issue in many systems,
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  Speaker 2: and funding is almost always tight, especially with conservative fiscal policies.
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  Speaker 2: Running these highly specialized, high staffing units is incredibly expensive.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: And then there's the legal side. You mentioned these units
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  Speaker 1: are magnets for lawsuits.
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  Speaker 2: They absolutely are. It forces admitted stras to walk this
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  Speaker 2: constant tightrope regarding the Eighth Amendment, the ban on cruel
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  Speaker 2: and unusual punishment.
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  Speaker 1: How common is that kind of legal oversight?
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  Speaker 2: Pretty significant. The study found a quarter of the agency
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  Speaker 2: surveyed were already under court orders specifically about managing disruptive inmates.
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  Speaker 2: Nearly a third had consent decrees.
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  Speaker 1: So basically, lawyers have to sign off on almost any
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  Speaker 1: policy change.
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  Speaker 2: Pretty much every significant change gets scrutinized to make sure
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  Speaker 2: it doesn't cross that constitutional line.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: What kinds of things trigger an Eighth Amendment claim in
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: this setting? It's not just about physical abuse, is it?
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  Speaker 2: Oh? Not at all. Courts look at really fundamental conditions
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  Speaker 2: of confinement, things like inadequate hygiene, poor heating or ventilation,
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  Speaker 2: faulty toilets, even just the lack of any meaningful activity
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  Speaker 2: or exercise, stuff that.
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  Speaker 1: Might seem minor but becomes magnified in total isolation.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly, if there's a pattern of neglect in those basic areas,
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  Speaker 2: it can lead to major lawsuits and force expensive changes.
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  Speaker 2: So policy is always being shaped by court decisions or
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  Speaker 2: the threat of court decisions.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: And what about factors outside the prison walls? Do things
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  Speaker 1: happening on the street affect what goes on inside these units?
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  Speaker 2: Definitely? Two big things stood out in the research. First,
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  Speaker 2: sentencing changes, longer sentences, three strikes laws, things like that
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  Speaker 2: they create a larger population of inmates with very long
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  Speaker 2: terms maybe life sentences, with little hope of getting out and.
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  Speaker 1: Less incentive to follow the rules.
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  Speaker 2: I suppose research suggests that yes, they may have higher
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  Speaker 2: rates of violent infractions because the traditional correctional incentive like
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: earning parole don't really apply to them in the same way.
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  Speaker 1: Makes sense. And the second factor gangs.
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  Speaker 2: At least half the agencies pointed to gang activity as
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  Speaker 2: a major source of problems inside, but also interestingly crackdowns
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  Speaker 2: on drug dealing on the outside. How does that connect, Well,
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  Speaker 2: more people getting locked up for drug offenses means more
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  Speaker 2: drug trafficking inside prisons. Arizona, for example, saw a massive
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  Speaker 2: spike like two hundred and eighty percent in inmate violence
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  Speaker 2: between eighty two and eighty five, and they directly linked
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  Speaker 2: it to the rise in internal drug dealing and the
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  Speaker 2: violence that comes with it.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. So the challenges are constantly shifting based on external
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  Speaker 1: forces too.
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  Speaker 2: It's incredibly dynamic. Hashtag tag three core management philosophies and
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  Speaker 2: structural models hashtag tag tech three point one. Punishment versus
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  Speaker 2: opportunity models.
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  Speaker 1: All right, so you've got this incredibly difficult population. You're
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  Speaker 1: under legal and financial pressure. Administrators need a core philosophy
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  Speaker 1: for how to manage these units. The sources seem to
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  Speaker 1: boil it down to two main approaches, punitive or opportunities.
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  Speaker 2: That's right. The punitive model is basically rooted in retribution.
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  Speaker 2: The idea is negative behavior gets a fixed punishment. Usually
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  Speaker 2: that means isolation and losing privileges. You break a rule,
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  Speaker 2: you go before a disciplinary committee, you get a sentence,
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  Speaker 2: a set amount of time and segregation.
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  Speaker 1: And the key part there is fixed. Right. Good behavior
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  Speaker 1: doesn't shorten.
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  Speaker 2: The sentence exactly. Under a strict punitive model, good behavior
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  Speaker 2: just means you don't get more time added on. The
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  Speaker 2: punishment duration is set in stone. The main goal is
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  Speaker 2: deter currents, making an example to discourage others. It's a
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  Speaker 2: very hardline approach, focused squarely on security and accountability.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so how does the opportunities model differ from that?
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  Speaker 2: The opportunities model is well arguably a more evolved approach
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  Speaker 2: and certainly more common now. It still recognizes segregation is
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: necessary for safety, but it builds in ways for inmates
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  Speaker 2: to actually earn their way towards better conditions.
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  Speaker 1: So it introduces incentives.
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  Speaker 2: Precisely, things like face systems or level programs or behavior contracts.
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  Speaker 2: Good behavior adherence to the rules is directly rewarded with
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  Speaker 2: increased privileges, more personal property, maybe more out of cell time,
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  Speaker 2: access to certain programs.
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  Speaker 1: So the inmate has some agency in improving their situation.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that's the key difference. It shifts the focus from
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  Speaker 2: just deterrence to actually trying to modify behavior. It offers
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: a pathway, maybe a very difficult one, but still a
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  Speaker 2: pathway back towards the general population, or at least a
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: less restrictive setting. And frankly, this model generally aligns better
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: with current legal thinking about rehbait ilitation and avoiding those
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Eighth Amendment issues around indefinite harsh isolation hashtag hashtag tech
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  Speaker 2: tach three point two concentration versus dispersal strategies.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so once you have a philosophy, you need to
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  Speaker 1: decide where to house these individuals. Do you put them
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  Speaker 1: all together in one or two specialized high security prisons, concentration,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: or spread them out across different facilities.
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  Speaker 2: Dispersal Concentration tends to be the dominant strategy, mostly for
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  Speaker 2: practical and financial reasons.
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  Speaker 1: What are the advantages of putting everyone in one place,
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  Speaker 1: like a USP marian or a dedicated state unit.
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  Speaker 2: Well, cost efficiency is a big one. You avoid duplicating
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  Speaker 2: expensive high security construction, specialized staff training, specific programs, You
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  Speaker 2: centralize it all. Plus it arguably makes the other prisons
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  Speaker 2: safer and calmer, allowing them to focus more on general
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  Speaker 2: population programming.
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  Speaker 1: Makes sense from a budget perspective. But what are the
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  Speaker 1: downsides you mentioned staff earlier.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the major drawback. Concentrating all the most difficult,
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  Speaker 2: violent and disruptive individual rules in one place puts immense,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: unrelenting stress on the staff working.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: There, even if they're highly trained elite staff.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Especially then perhaps they're dealing with the absolute toughest cases
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: day in, day out burnout fatigue, The emotional toll is
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: significantly higher, and often the range of programs available to
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: inmates and these concentrated units is narrower because of the
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: intense security focus.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: So dispersal tries to alleviate that staff stress.
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  Speaker 2: That's the idea. Spreading the disruptive population out means no
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: single group of staff bears the entire burden, and theoretically
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: it gives those inmates better access to the programs and
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: services available in general population prisons. Seeing others with more
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: privileges can also be an incentive.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Right, But wouldn't dispersal mean building many high security units
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: inside lots of different prisons. That sounds incredibly expensive.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: It is. That's usually the killer argument against it. Duplicating
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: high security infrastructure and specialized staffing across many sites is
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: often seen as just too costly. Plus you run the
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: risk of a small number of very volatile inmates disrupting
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: the operations of an entire general population facility.
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  Speaker 1: So, given the budget constraints we talked about, concentration usually
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: wins out, even with the higher stress on staff.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: That seems to be the prevailing logic. Yes, it's seen
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: as the most cost effective, though certainly not perfect approach.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Let's shift to how these places are actually run on
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  Speaker 1: the inside. Traditionally, prisons use a very top down, centralized
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: management style, but the sources say there's been a move
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: towards something called unit management, pioneered by the Federal Bureau
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: of Prisons.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Right, this is a pretty significant shift in organizational structure.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Instead of one big hierarchy managing the whole institution, unit
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: management breaks the facility down into smaller, semi independent units.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: What does that look like on the ground for the
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: staff and inmates?
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: The key is the unit team. You have a unit manager, caseworkers,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: correctional officers, maybe counselors or support staff, all dedicated to
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: one specific unit, typically housing maybe fifty to one hundred inmates.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And crucially, their offices are located right there, adjacent to
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: the inmate living area, so.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: They're physically present and focused just on that group exactly.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: It really increases the amount and quality of staff inmate interaction.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: The idea is to move away from impersonal bureaucratic management
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: towards staff who really know the inmates in their unit,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: their issues, their behaviors.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: What are the claimed benefits of organizing things this.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Way several big ones. Better communication among staff, definitely better
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: observation of inmates. It allows for much more individualized classification
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: and program planning because the staff actually know the people
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: they're managing and flights ability, huge flexibility. Because each unit
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: is semi autonomous, you can tailor programs or security measures
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: for that specific unit's needs without having to change things
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: for the entire prison. Decisions can be made faster by
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: the people directly involved. That's vital in a high risk environment,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: where a quick informed response can prevent things from escalating.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Interesting. So it's trying to bring some individualized attention into
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: these very controlled environments.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: That's the goal. Now we've talked a lot about the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: structures and philosophies, but we need to confront the costs,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: the real human consequences of this level of control.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And just a reminder, if you're finding this breakdown helpful,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: please do consider rating beyond infographics five stars. It helps
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: others find the show. We've got to get into some
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: really heavy material now, the psychological and even neurological effects
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: of isolation.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: So while these super secure units are sometimes necessary for
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: managing extreme violence, the reality is that solitary confinement or
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: restrictive housing often gets used much more broadly.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: You mean not just for violent acts, right.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: It's frequently used for things like non violent rule breaking, disrespect,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: having too much canteen, sometimes even for protecting vulnerable inmates,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: but the tool itself, isolation has profound effects regardless of
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: why someone is there.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: And those effects last, don't they The research suggests the
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: harm isn't just temporary.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: That's the really sobering finding. The psychological damage seems to
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: get worse the longer someone is isolated, and critically, it
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't just disappear when they leave solitary or even when
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: they're released from prison entirely. The trauma can persist for years,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: and the.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Most extreme outcome suicide. The statistics are.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Just horrifying, they really are. The New York State data,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: for instance, showed suicide rates and solitary were over five
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: times higher than in the general prison population between twenty
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: fifteen and twenty nineteen.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Five times. That's staggering.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: It's an undeniable, massive increase in risk, and it follows
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: people out the door too.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: What do you mean the risk continues after release?
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, there's a huge study tracked over two hundred thousand
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: people released from prison. It found that individuals who had
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: spent any time in solitary were seventy eight percent more
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: likely to die by suicide within their first year back
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: in the community.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: My god, so they're carrying that damage back with them
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: into a potentially chaotic environment exactly.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: And it's not just suicide risk. There's another really alarming
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: finding related to substance abuse OKA. That same study found
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: that having been in solitary made people one hundred and
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: twenty seven percent more likely to die from an opioid overdose,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: particularly in the first two weeks after release.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Wow. One hundred and twenty seven percent. Why what's the connection?
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: The researcher suggests it's likely a combination of factors. The
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: intense stress of isolation, maybe underdeveloped coping skills, the shock
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: of re entry, and perhaps inadequate support services right when
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: they're most vulnerable. It creates this perfect storm for relapse
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: and overdose. It points to a real failure in preparing
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: people for release after isolation. Hashtag tached hashtag four point two.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Isolation is physical.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Pain, so the psychological toll is immense. But you mentioned earlier,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the sources suggest this goes beyond psychological pain, that isolation
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: is registered by the brain almost like a physical injury.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is where the neuroscience comes in, and it's
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: fascinating and disturbing. Research shows that being socially deprived triggers
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: what scientists call social pain, and the brain circuitry that
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: lights up when someone experiences social pain it's the same
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: circuitry that activates during physical pain.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: So feeling isolated literally hurts in a neurological sense.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: That's what the evidence indicates. The brain treats social connection
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: as a fundamental need and its absence as a threat
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: akin to physical harm.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: And if that state of social pain goes on for
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: a long time, like in prolonged solitary, does it actually
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: change the brain?
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: The evidence points strongly towards yes. Prolonged social deprivation seems
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: to cause actual structural changes in the brain, potentially permanent ones.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: We've seen studies even going back decades showing that just
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: one week in solitary can alter brainwave activities, slowing it down,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: impairing performance on complex tasks.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: The sources specifically mentioned two brain areas, the hippocampus and
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the amygdala. Can you walk us through what happens to them?
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Sure, the hippocampus is vital for learning and memory, but
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: it's also really critical for regulating our stress response. Think
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: of it as the brain's brake pedal for anxiety and
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: emotional reactions okay. Studies, including those on animals with similar
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: brain structures, show that under conditions of isolation, the hippocampus
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: can actually shrink physically shrink, which means it means the
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: individual loses some of their capacity to manage stress and
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: control emotional responses. They become more reactive, more easily overwhelmed
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: by stress later on. Isolation literally damages the brain's ability
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: to cope, which.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Is the opposite of what you'd want for someone you're
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: trying to manage in a high stress prison environment exactly.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: And then you have the amygdala. This is more like
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: the brain's alarm system. It processes fear and anxiety.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: And what happens to it during isolation, it.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Goes into overdrive. Studies show a surge of activity in
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: the amygdola in isolated individuals. This hyperactivation directly correlates with
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: the feelings of intense fear, anxiety, hypervigilance, even paranoia that
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: people in solitary confinement so often report.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: So isolation is effectively locking the brain into a state
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: of high alert, high fear while also damaging its ability
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: to calm itself down.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: That's a very good way to put it. It's rewiring
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: the brain for fear and stress hashtag tag tag tag
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: four point three special vulnerabilities and restrictive housing.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: We also need to talk about how this impacts specific
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: groups who might be especially vulnerable. The sources mentioned women
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and people with disabilities.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, for women, there's an issue, often stemming from classification
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: systems that were mostly designed with male prisoners in mind.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: This can lead to women being placed in higher security
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: settings than their actual risk might warrant.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: And they might be punished more harshly for smaller infractions.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Research suggests that can happen. Yes, they might receive harsher
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: sanctions for minor, non violent rule breaking compared to men.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: This sometimes results in women experiencing shorter but more frequent
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: stints in solitary, a kind of revolving door effect that
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: maximizes their exposure to its harms over time.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: And this is compounded by the fact that mental health
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: issues are already very prevalent among incurs.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Women incredibly prevalent. Nearly seventy percent of women in jails
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: or prisons have a history of mental health problems, so
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: placing this population, often with significant trauma histories, into deep isolation.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: It's not just counterproductive, it risks compounding existing psychological wounds
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: very significantly.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: What do international standards like the Mandela Rules say about
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: using solitary for vulnerable groups?
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: They're very clear. The Mandela Rules explicitly condemn using solitary
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: confinement for individuals with mental or physical disabilities. Rule forty
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: four states it shouldn't be used on them at all.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: The idea is that their behavior might stem from their disability,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: not defiance, and isolation is not an appropriate or humane response.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Does that always happen in practice?
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Sadly no. Sometimes individuals with physical disabilities end up in isolation,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: not because they broke a rule, but simply because the
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: general population areas lack accessible cells or facilities. It becomes
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: a default placement out of convenience, not necessity.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: And what about people with sensory disabilities, being deaf or
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: blind and solitary. That must be an unimaginable level of deprivation.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: It's horrific to contemplate. They experience an even more profound
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: level of sensory deprivation and isolation. Often they lack access
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: to basic communication tools, sign language interpreters, assistive devices for
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: reading materials. They're effectively cut off from any potential programming
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: or human contact, leading to an almost complete isolation within isolation,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: it's a massive failure of accommodation.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's ship gears a bit now from the human impact,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: back to the mechanics of control. These maximum security units
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: are physical structures designed for one primary purpose, containment. What
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: are some of the key architectural musk halves.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Well, it starts with the basics. Walls have to be
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: incredibly strong. Reinforced concrete or masonry is standard. You see
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: specs like concrete blocks filled solid with high strength grout
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: laced with steel rebar. The goal is to make breaching
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: them physically impossible.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned very specific rule about openings in walls,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: the eight inch rule.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's quite telling about the level of detail involved.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Any opening like a food pass through or observation port
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: generally can't be larger than eight inches by eight inches.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: If it's a longer slot, it can't be wider than
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: five inches. Why so specific, It's based on physiology. The
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: thinking is if an opening is too small for a
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: human head to pass through, the body can't follow. It's
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: a fundamental security measure baked into the design.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: And inside the cell given the potential for vandalism.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Or self harm, everything has to be heavy duty and
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: tamper proof. Stainless steel toilets and sinks are common, designed
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: with smooth surfaces, no sharp edges, and bolted securely to
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: the floor and walls. This stops inmates from breaking off
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: parts to use as weapons, causing flooding or hurting themselves.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Does the overall design try to account for the psychological
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: impact at all or is it purely about security.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Security is absolutely paramount high walls, reinforced doors, sally ports.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: The design has to screen control. The sources do advise
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: administrators to try, where practical to mitigate the harshness, maybe
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: using better lighting, less stark colors, small things that might
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: lessen the institutional feel and potentially reduce some of the
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: trauma associated with being in such a restrictive place. It's
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: a balance, but security always comes first. Hashtag tag tag
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: five point two supervision methods. Okay, so you have the
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: physical structure, then there's the human element supervision. The guiding
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: principle here is effective and total control.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Meaning staff run everything, no inmate influence allowed.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Zero Staff must maintain complete control over every aspect of
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: the unit's operation. There's no room for inmates to manage
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: any part of it. The entire system relies on constant staff,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: vigilance and immediate response capability.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: What about technology? CCTD cameras seem like an obvious tool here.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: They're used, for sure, but the sources are really clear
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: that cameras are not a replacement for having enough staff
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: on the ground.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Why not? Seems like eyes everywhere would be good.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: There are limitations. Camera views are two dimensional, making it
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: hard to judge situations accurately. Sometimes there can be blind spots,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: and there's the risk of staff becoming complacent, just sort
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: of passively watching monitors instead of actively observing.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: So where does tech help most?
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: It's really useful for monitoring areas where staff aren't usually present,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: perimeter fences, rooftops, corridors, sally ports inside the units. One
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: low cost but effective recommendation was adding listen in talk
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: back capabilities to the intercom system.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So staff can hear what's going on in cells, even
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: periods of silence which might be suspicious, and talk directly
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: to inmates without opening doors exactly.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: It enhances monitoring and communication without compromising security.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Let's talk staffing ratios. This must be hugely expensive. What's
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: considered the ideal number of staff to inmates for this
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: level of control?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Well, the numbers varied quite a bit in the study,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: depending on the specific unit in state. Some suggested ratio
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: is as low as one point one, others much higher,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: like one point two in the most volatile settings in
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Ohio or Arizona.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: But was there a general consensus and average?
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Synthesizing the data, the sort of optimal average for a
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: day shift using indirect supervision came out to roughly one
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: staff member for every seven inmates, so one to seven okay.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: But did the agencies feel they were actually meeting that standard?
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Mostly no. While about seventy nine percent felt they had
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: enough supervisors, managers, caseworkers, only sixty four percent felt they
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: had enough frontline correctional officers, so.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: A significant shortfall on the people doing the direct monitoring. Yes.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: On average, agencies reported needing about an eighteen percent increase
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: in officers just to meet what they considered adequate levels
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: for effective control. The strain is clearly being felt most
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: by the officers on the tiers hashtag tag tag tag
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: five point three managing movement and force.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: The sources consistently emphasized that moving inmates is perhaps the
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: most dangerous time in these units. The potential for assault
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: or escape attempts as highest.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Then absolutely, which is why the protocols for any movement
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: outside the cell are incredibly strict. Strict do we talk
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: restraint is the defail handcuffs, waste chains, leg irons, often
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: used in combination and always escorted by multiple officers. The
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Washington doc policy, for example, requires inmates to be handcommed
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: for basically everything outside their cell except showers and visits,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: and even during movement, staff physically hold onto the.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Cuffs handcuffed even in the shower.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Some policies, like Washington's require it. It illustrates just how
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: little unsupervised freedom is allowed, minimizing any opportunity. Arizona's policy
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: adds that officers put on protective vests before even entering
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: the most volatile housing units.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Total preparedness what happens when force is unavoidable, If an
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: inmate resists movement or becomes violent.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Using forces always a last resort, but when it's necessary,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: videotaping the entire event is strongly recommended as a best practice.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Why is videotaping so important?
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Several reasons. It provides an objective record, which can deter
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: staff misconduct. It also provides crucial evidence if the inmate
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: later files a lawsuit alleging abuse. Institution like Marion credited
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: their use of specialized response teams and mandatory videotaping with
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: actually reducing both the need for forced cell extractions and
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: the number of lawsuits. It protects everyone involved in a way.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, and what about searches, particularly the really intrusive ones
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: like strip searches or body cavity searches? When are those allowed?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: They're recognized as highly invasive and are supposed to be
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: used only when absolutely necessary, such as typically upon admission
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: to the unit, or if an inmate returns from outside
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: the secure perimeter like a court trip where they might
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: have had an opportunity to obtain contraband. Policies like at
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: WCCIMU are very.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Specific, and body cavity searches those must have even stricter rules.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Definitely, they require prior authorization from senior staff like the superintendent,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: and crucially, they should be performed by qualified medical personnel,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: not the regular correctional officers, or at least by staff
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: specifically trained in hygienic procedures. If an inmate resists, that
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: incident is often also videotaped and documented very carefully because
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: of the serious legal implications. Hashtag tag six staff management
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I morele hashtag tag tag book six point one Staff
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: selection and training Right.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: It's clear that the staff working in these units are
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: under immense pressure. The environment is inherently stressful, confrontational, potentially dangerous,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: so getting the right people seems absolutely critical.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: It's probably the single most important factor in maintaining stability
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: and safety. Alongside the physical design. The selection process has
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: to be incredibly rigorous.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: What are they looking for?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Personalities, huge maturity, professionalism, the ability to remain calm under pressure,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: resilience prior experience matters, and very often agencies rely on volunteers,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: people who actually want to work in this challenging environment,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: rather than being forced into it.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Some places like Marion seem to treat it almost like
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: an elite assignment.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's the deliberate strategy. Marian historically selected staff for
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: its control unit based on outstanding performance reviews from other
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: federal prisons, was seen as a promotion, a reward. Washington
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: States i am U staff are similarly considered top tier
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: correctional personnel.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: So you filter for the best, most motivated people exactly.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: You want people who are not just competent security wise,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: but who also have the temperament to handle constant hostility
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: and manipulation without resorting to unprofessional or abusive behavior themselves.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: But it's just selecting the right people enough or is
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: specialized training also key?
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Selection helps, but it's not enough on its own. Specialized
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: training is absolutely crucial. The recommendation is for at least
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: eighty hours of dedicated training for anyone having daily contact
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: with these inmates.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And that training needs to cover more than just security tactics.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Presumably, oh definitely, it has to include things like de
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: escalation techniques, recognizing and managing mental health crises, understanding manipulative behaviors,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: and crucially, how to cope with the psychological stress of
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: the job itself, dealing with constant verbal abuse, threats and
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: the inherent tension of the environment hashtag tech tag six
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: point two incentives and stress reduction.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: That stress is a major issue. You mentioned three quarters
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: of agencies rotate staff out of these units periodically.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, rotation is a common strategy to prevent burnout. You
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: don't want anyone exposed to that level of intensity for
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: too long without a break. It helps maintain perspective and resilience.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: That rotation can be disruptive right breaks up team cohesion.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: It can be, which is why finding other ways to
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: support staff and boost morale is also important. Low cost
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: incentives can make a big difference.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: What kind of incentives work.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Things like hazard duty pay or maybe special recognition. Some
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: places use distinctive uniforms to signify the prestige of the assignment,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: small things that acknowledge the difficulty and importance of the work.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: The idea being that if you make it a sought after,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: a respected role, you attract and retain better staff.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Exactly, it helps reduce turnover, which saves money on training
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: new people. It improves a morale. If you're asking your
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: best staff to do the hardest job, you need to
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: acknowledge that. Intangible ways to offset the high emotional and
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: psychological costs hashtag tag tech six point three healthcare and
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: accountability Mandela rules.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: We talked about the psychological and neurological damage of isolation earlier.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: This brings us to the role of health care staff
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: in these units. The Mandela rules seem to give them
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: a specific crucial function they do.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: The rules position healthcare personnel as having a degree of
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: independence and oversight. They must have daily access not just
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: to inmates who report sick, but to all prisoners being
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: held in any kind of involuntary separation or isolation.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: So it's not just reactive care, it's proactive monitoring.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, they're required to provide prompt medical attention is requested,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: but also to conduct ongoing health surveillance of everyone in isolation, and.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Their role goes beyond just treating physical ailments.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Critically. Yes, according to rule forty six, if health care
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: staff observe any adverse effects of the restrictive measures on
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: an inmate's physical or mental health, they have a duty
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: to report it immediately to the prison director.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So they can actually flag if the isolation itself is causing.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Harm precisely, and they don't just report, they are supposed
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: to advise the director if they believe it's medically necessary
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: to change or even terminate the restriction.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Wow, So a doctor could recommend pulling someone out of
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: solitary even if security wants them there.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: That's the intent of the rule. If the isolation is
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: exacerbating a mental health condition, for example, the medical opinion
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: should in theory carry significant weight and could override a
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: purely security based decision. It's meant to be a vital,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: independent check on the use and effects of isolation.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, So for most inmates in these units, excluding those
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: maybe serving indefinite terms, the goal is eventually to get
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: them back to the general population.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Presumably yes, How does that happen? What's the mechanism for
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: moving out? It's managed through internal classification systems. The study
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: found that the vast majority, about eighty one percent, use
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: some kind of phase or level system.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: This can expect to the opportunities model.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: We discussed exactly. These systems put that model into practice.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: They lay out a clear step by step path. Inmates
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: earn more privileges less restriction by demonstrating consistent good behavior
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: over time. The onus is on the inmate to prove
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: they can follow the rules.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned earlier the difference between reacting to bad
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: behavior and proactively trying to manage risk.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Right. Traditional segregation is reactive. You break a major rule,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: you get isolated, But some systems try to be more proactive.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: South Carolina's AIM System Adult Internal Management System as an.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Example, how does aims work.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: It tries to identify potentially problematic inmates right when they
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: enter the prison system, based purely on their behavior and
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: management needs, not their crime or background.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: So it's trying to predict who might cause trouble later.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Sort of. The idea is if you can identify individuals
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: who need closer management or specific interventions early on, you
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: might be able to prevent major incidents down the road,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: reducing the need for long term reactive segregation later. It's
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: about early inner rather than just containment after the fact.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Hashtag tag tax seven point two the gradual release model.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Let's get more specific about these level systems. How do
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: they actually work day to day? What kind of privileges
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: are we talking about as someone moves up.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Let's take Arizona Cell Block six program as an example.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Inmates typically start at level one with very few privileges.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: By following the rules consistently known factions, good cell sanitation, cooperation,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: they can earn promotion to level two than level.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Three, and each level unlocks more.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, maybe at level two you get slightly more phone
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: time or access to more items from the canteen. Level
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: three might mean more visitation. Maybe eligibility for an in
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: cell work assignment, more personal property allowed, but any misstep,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: any rule violation, usually results in immediate demotion back down
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: a level and loss of those privileges. It's a very
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: direct cause and effects system.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: For someone who's been in deep segregation for months or
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: even years, Going straight from that back to the noise
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: and chaos of general population sounds like a huge shock.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: It is, and it often leads to failure. The inmate
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: gets overwhelmed, acts out, and ends up right back in segregation.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: That's why transitional programs are strongly recommended for long term
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: isolated inmates.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: What do those look like? A sort of halfway step exactly.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: They're designed to gradually reacclimate inmates. South Carolina, for instance,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: uses a transitional unit. It might involve things like multiman cells,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: maybe the first time in years the inmate has had
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: a cellmate. There might be group counseling, specific behavioral contracts.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: So staff can watch how they handle increased social interaction
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: in a controlled setting.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Precisely, it allows staff to observe their adjustment, their coping skills,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: their ability to follow rules in a more complex environment
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: before they're fully released back into the general population. It
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: aims to make the transition more successful and permanent. Hashtag
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: tag tag seven point three privileged details.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: The whole concept of privilege in these units really highlights
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: the extreme scarcity of their world, doesn't it. What kind
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: of things are typically off limits compared to general population.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Well, programs involving tools or significant movement are usually out
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: so vocational training prison industries generally prohibited because of the
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: security risks. Academic programs are often restricted to self study
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: courses done in the cell.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: And personal property. The sources had some incredibly specific examples.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, everything is minutely regulated. Strict limits on how
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: many candy bars you can buy, how much coffee, how
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: many writing tablets or envelopes. Even something deeply personal like
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: a wedding ring might only be allowed if it has
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: no stones, because a stone could potentially be pried out
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: and used somehow.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And staff regularly checked to make sure inmates don't have
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: even one extra.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Item regular inventories. Yes, accumulating unauthorized property is a rule violation.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: It comes back to that total control.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: There is that one anecdote in the sources that really
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: struck me about the photo right.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: The inmate who had to earn something like sixty points
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: through good behavior, which took about three month of perfect
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: conduct in that environment just to be allowed one photograph
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: of his wife.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Three months for one photo.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: It really underscores how much psychological weight these tiny privileges carry.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: When something so basic requires that much sustained effort and
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: self control, it becomes a powerful motivator within that level system,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: however harsh it seems.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: And finally, recreation even that's not really free time.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Is it not at all? It's essential for well being,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: but it's still a highly controlled security operation. In cell
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: activities like puzzles are drawing are encouraged, but outdoor recreation
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: is limited and intensely monitored.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: How limited.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Washington's IMU inmates, for example, might only get two hours
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: twice a week. And even when they're in the reckyard,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: staff are watching closely, watching for what, making sure they
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: don't misuse equipment, like you can't use a bench for
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: intense physical training that might damage it, or use a
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: wall in a way that blocks officers view. Every object
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: is assessed for potential misuse. Staff are trained to anticipate
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: problems and absolute control even during supposed downtime. Hashtag tag
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: eight outro synthesis and final thought.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: So we've covered a huge amount of ground today, from
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: the tiny details of architectural design like that eight inch rule,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: all the way to the profound neurological impacts of isolation
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: and the complex systems trying to manage it all.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: And what really emerges is this fundamental conflict, isn't it.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: On one hand, you have the administrative reality, segregation, concentration.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: These are often seen as necessary for cost efficiency for
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: the safety of the broader prison population.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: You need control, but that clashes directly with the human cost.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: We've seen the evidence isolation can damage the brain, shrinking
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: the hippocampus, overactivating the amigdala. It dramatically increases suicide risk.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Even after release, risk of overdose skyrockets. Seems like the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: tool itself can make the problem.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Worse, which is why the shift towards more objective, data
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: driven approaches is so important. Things like the Proactive Aims
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: system and the or level systems for gradual release. These
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: try to balance the need for control with constitutional requirements
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: and basic humanity.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Right they tie progress directly to behavior exactly.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: It gives management the control they need, but it also
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: provides inmates with a clear earned path out of the
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: most restrictive conditions. It's about minimizing the duration of exposure
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: to that damaging environment. By rewarding positive behavior.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: It makes the opportunities model not just more humane, but
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: potentially more effective in the long run than just fixed punishment.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: That seems to be the direction things are moving, or
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: at least should be moving.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, So that leads us to a final thought to
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: leave you the listener with. We learn that these units
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: demand the assignment of the institution's most elite, highly trained staff.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Places like Marion saw it as a prestigious posting right.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: You're concentrating your best human resources, both in terms of
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: staff expertise and arguably the inmates requiring the most intensive
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: management into these very small, very expensive, high intensity environments.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: And we know this costs of fortune financially and emotionally.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: So the question becomes, is this model truly achieving system
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: wide stability or are we essentially just trading widespread, lower
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: level chaos throughout the prison system for an incredibly concentrated, hidden,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: and extremely costly form of control in these specialized units.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Are we solving the problem or just isolating it at
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: immense expense? It's a really difficult question about the true
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: cost and effectiveness.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Of this approach, something to definitely think about. Thank you
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: for joining us for this deep dive on beyond infographics.
• 41:34
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• 41:36
  Speaker 2: moment to rate the show five stars on your podcast app.
• 41:39
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• 41:41
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• 41:43
  Speaker 1: with another exploration beyond infographics.