Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Katie Woolf spoke with Police Association President Paul McCue

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Katie Woolf spoke with Police Association President Paul McCue · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Three sixty with Katie wolf On mixed one oh four
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  Speaker 1: point nine thanks to Joyce Main Darwin. Now we know
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  Speaker 1: that it is being reported that assaults against police have
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  Speaker 1: more than doubled in Palmerston in the past year, while
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  Speaker 1: Alice Springs remains the most dangerous place to be a
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  Speaker 1: Territory cop. That's according to some new figures which have
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  Speaker 1: been obtained by the Northern Territory News. Now joining us
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  Speaker 1: on the line to talk further about this is the
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  Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul mccu Good morning.
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  Speaker 2: Paul, Good morning Katie. Here are going not.
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  Speaker 1: Too bad, Paul, These figures are pretty astonishing. The NT
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  Speaker 1: News is reporting that there were thirty six assaults against
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  Speaker 1: police recorded in Palmerston in the year to February, up
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  Speaker 1: from seventeen in the previous twelve months. What is going on?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, it's obviously a huge concern, isn't it when you
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  Speaker 2: see sparks and assaults against their frontline workers and police
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  Speaker 2: are at the forefront of that obviously, as we know,
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  Speaker 2: you know, particularly those on the front line. You know
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  Speaker 2: they're often almost daily confronted with physical confrontation, with angry,
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  Speaker 2: you know, violent individuals, and you know, as a result
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  Speaker 2: often they do being assaulted, and we know the statistics
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  Speaker 2: on a five year average, we're around two hundred and
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  Speaker 2: forty five year Remember these are just reported assaults, so
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  Speaker 2: you know these are and I think the other concern Katie,
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  Speaker 2: on top of the numbers that we're seeing is the
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  Speaker 2: severity of those assaults. And you know, with a lot
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  Speaker 2: of officers being spat out, bitten, suffering some quite traumatic
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  Speaker 2: injuries as a result of the execution of their duties.
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  Speaker 2: And you know that's something we've been speaking to the
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  Speaker 2: miniSTR a lot about. Yeah, I certainly out of the
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  Speaker 2: last few years.
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  Speaker 1: Well, no doubt. I mean, everybody deserves to be safe
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  Speaker 1: in their workplace. And then when you're talking about our
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  Speaker 1: frontline workers, it is absolutely essential Paul, talk us through
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  Speaker 1: though some of I mean, by the look of things,
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  Speaker 1: the more dangerous location or the most dangerous location to
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  Speaker 1: be a police officer at this point in time when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to those assaults is actually Alas Springs. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Look, obviously it's a concern when you look at the
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  Speaker 2: results in terms of the major areas of concern, Alice Springs, Palmerston,
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  Speaker 2: you know, DA, and we're talking about those highly densely
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  Speaker 2: populated areas, a lot of I guess youth roaming the streets,
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  Speaker 2: and a lot of our cohol related harm. And I
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  Speaker 2: think when you're talking about those sorts of numbers and
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  Speaker 2: now they're on the rise again, you know it's certainly
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  Speaker 2: time to really put a focus on this and say, well,
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  Speaker 2: what can we do to you know, act as a
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  Speaker 2: bit of a bit of a deterrent in terms of
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  Speaker 2: protecting our frontline workers. And you know, they don't go
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  Speaker 2: to work to get assaulted. They go to work to
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  Speaker 2: protect our community. And we know the work is inherently dangerous,
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  Speaker 2: but you know, we want to make sure they're as
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  Speaker 2: safe as possible in that workplace.
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  Speaker 1: What can we do to try and protect our police
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  Speaker 1: officers to ensure that they're not being assaulted.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously it's it's often it comes down to
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  Speaker 2: a numbers game. And obviously there's the deterrent factor of
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  Speaker 2: course in terms of sentencing, which you know we've made
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  Speaker 2: submissions onto the government back in November of last year
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  Speaker 2: around you know, making sure people are getting an actual
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  Speaker 2: term of imprisonment when they're undertaking these cowardly assaults and
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  Speaker 2: not just a slap on the wrist and walking out
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  Speaker 2: the court. You know, people might say, well, that's not
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  Speaker 2: going to act as a deterred. Well, if you know
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  Speaker 2: you're going to go to jail, if you cause harm
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  Speaker 2: to one of our police officers, it may make you
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  Speaker 2: think twice about taking them on in the street when
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  Speaker 2: you think you're a hero and full of alcohol. So
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  Speaker 2: I think there's a real conversation to be had there
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  Speaker 2: because our members are fed up. We're going to work
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  Speaker 2: and coming home with injuries.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, you said there that those submissions were put forward
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  Speaker 1: in November last year. Where is that inquiry or where
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  Speaker 1: is all of that ast at this point?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we made a submission through to the Law Reform
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  Speaker 2: Committee around it was to do with mandatory sentencing and
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  Speaker 2: community based sentencing options, and we obviously met with that
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  Speaker 2: Law Reform Committee in March of this year to further,
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  Speaker 2: I guess further, make further verbal submissions in relation to
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  Speaker 2: what we would like to see, and we yet to
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  Speaker 2: hear back some two or three months down the track
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  Speaker 2: as to where that's at. And obviously people are frightened
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  Speaker 2: when you talk about sentencing and making sure people go
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  Speaker 2: to prison, but let's not forget we're talking about our
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  Speaker 2: frontline workers and the people we need to protect.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Paul, can I ask you over the last twelve months,
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  Speaker 1: how many of our officers have been assaulted?
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  Speaker 2: Well, Look, obviously, in terms of statistics, we're talking around
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  Speaker 2: two hundred and seven from March last year to February
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  Speaker 2: of this year. As I said, previous five year averages
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  Speaker 2: around two hundred and forty five. It did go down
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  Speaker 2: for a year, down around one hundred and eighty, but
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  Speaker 2: we're now on the rise again, and I think that's
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  Speaker 2: reflective probably of I guess where we're sitting at the
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  Speaker 2: moment in terms of a lot of our coal related
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  Speaker 2: offenses and harm that have increased last twelve months, and
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  Speaker 2: of course when that happens both in urban and remote areas,
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  Speaker 2: that further enhances that risk to our members who are
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  Speaker 2: out there dealing with that with that harm.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that this contributes to police officers leaving
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  Speaker 1: the force?
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  Speaker 2: Look, I think you know, people join the job and
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  Speaker 2: they understand the dangers involved, I think, but it's a
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  Speaker 2: cumulative effect of assault after assault after assault, and many
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  Speaker 2: of our members have been assaulted on several occasions, you know, sadly,
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  Speaker 2: quite seriously and of course, over a period of time,
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  Speaker 2: that breaks down that person's resilience to those to those
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  Speaker 2: assaults and being able to deal with it, and over
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  Speaker 2: a period of time they go, you know what, I've
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  Speaker 2: had enough of this, and I do want to look
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  Speaker 2: for an alternate career because you know, over a period
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  Speaker 2: of time it can have an impact.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, it's a real shame because it's
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  Speaker 1: all so preventable. You know, it shouldn't be happening in
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  Speaker 1: the first place. Paul, on those attrition rates, how are
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  Speaker 1: we going at the moment?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously, you know it's been well spoken around
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  Speaker 2: the numbers that have been leaving over the past six
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  Speaker 2: months or so. You know, we've spoken about on a
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  Speaker 2: few occasions. We know there is a lot of recruiting
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  Speaker 2: taking place. We're at the college yesterday speaking with the
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  Speaker 2: new squad that started yesterday, thirty one new constables, you know,
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  Speaker 2: which is great, and we know there's a lot of
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  Speaker 2: recruiting taking place. Again, it doesn't replace experience overnight, and
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  Speaker 2: that's something that needs to be factored into that discussion.
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  Speaker 2: So when we're talking about numbers, and we know the
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  Speaker 2: ministers come out continually in staid we're recruiting above attrition.
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  Speaker 2: We have record numbers. Sadly at the moment, that's not
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  Speaker 2: reflective in the feedback we're getting when we can't only
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  Speaker 2: put one van on the road on a shift. And
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  Speaker 2: so members are getting a little tired of that narrative
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  Speaker 2: when we say we've got all these numbers and yet
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  Speaker 2: we can't get more than one van on the road.
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  Speaker 2: And we've expressed that concern to the commissioners as later
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  Speaker 2: as last week.
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  Speaker 1: So at the moment, and so we have got members
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  Speaker 1: who are getting a bit fed up with the Minister
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  Speaker 1: saying that you know that we've increased the numbers because
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  Speaker 1: you've got a situation where the only one van on
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  Speaker 1: the road in some locations.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think you know we're not denying the
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  Speaker 2: fact there is. You know, they're certainly recruiting heavily, and
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  Speaker 2: we certainly when you look at the baseline figure of
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  Speaker 2: numbers in the police force, it is reasonably high at
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  Speaker 2: the moment, but it's not reflecting the feedback we're getting
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  Speaker 2: when we still in twenty twenty one can't get more
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  Speaker 2: than one van on the road on certain shifts. And
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  Speaker 2: that's a consistent feedback that we're getting into our office.
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  Speaker 2: We're not just saying this is isolated, it's consistent, and
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  Speaker 2: so the question has to be asked, Stop saying that narrative,
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  Speaker 2: Stop saying we've got all these numbers when we can't
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  Speaker 2: actually get enough on the street to do the job.
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  Speaker 2: So there needs to be a little bit more research
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  Speaker 2: into why that's the.
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  Speaker 1: Case, Paul, given the fact that we have got you know,
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  Speaker 1: we've been told on numerous occasions that there is such
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  Speaker 1: competitive recruits, with campaigns happening in other states and territories
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  Speaker 1: as well to try to get police officers into these roles.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, are we worried that, you know that we
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  Speaker 1: may have some people entering the force who ordinarily maybe
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  Speaker 1: not actually would maybe not actually be deemed as appropriate
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  Speaker 1: or deemed to have enough skill to actually get into
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  Speaker 1: the force in the territory. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Look, obviously those that get in have been through a process.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you've got to entrust that the
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  Speaker 2: recruitment area of the police force is doing their job. Obviously,
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  Speaker 2: we're not privy to a lot of the decision making
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  Speaker 2: around that, so it's difficult for us to comment. What
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  Speaker 2: we do know is, you know, we're concerned. If a
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  Speaker 2: member's experienced in the police and the NT and they
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  Speaker 2: leave to go to another police force, they still want
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  Speaker 2: to be a police officer, but they want to do
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  Speaker 2: it somewhere else, and so there needs to be a
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  Speaker 2: dive into why that is the case. Why are they
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  Speaker 2: leaving the Northern Territory to go to another police force.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what we want to know, because if we're
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  Speaker 2: not doing all we can to keep them here in
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  Speaker 2: the end, to them, we're not doing enough and what
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  Speaker 2: is that needs to be discussed.
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  Speaker 1: What is your interaction with officers telling you when.
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  Speaker 2: You say that, yeah, look, obviously we try and touch
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  Speaker 2: space with several of those people that are leaving or
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  Speaker 2: have left, and to try and understand why that's the case.
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  Speaker 2: There is sometimes a go home fact that there's no
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  Speaker 2: question about that. You know. Sometimes people have been recruited
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  Speaker 2: from inter state and they say, you know, I've been
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  Speaker 2: here ten or twelve years and I'm ready to go
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  Speaker 2: back back to where my family is. But there's also
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  Speaker 2: other reasons why people leave, and sometimes that's just because
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  Speaker 2: they're simply unhappy in the job. And you know, that's
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  Speaker 2: always going to be the case in any career. But
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  Speaker 2: of course in policing, when you look at some of
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  Speaker 2: the factors that police, you know, some of the things
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  Speaker 2: they've had to put up with over the last year
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  Speaker 2: or two, and some of the difficulties they've gone through.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes I say this isn't the career for me anymore,
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  Speaker 2: and they move on. But we want to know what
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  Speaker 2: we're doing an agency to say can we keep them
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  Speaker 2: and why are they actually leaving?
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  Speaker 1: And so are those exit surveys happening, because again there's
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  Speaker 1: been some conjecture about this, some saying that yes, there
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  Speaker 1: are those exit surveys, others saying that they're not, or
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  Speaker 1: that we're not getting the information that we need to
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  Speaker 1: answer some of those questions that you've just raised.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we've certainly been assured through the Commissioner and
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  Speaker 2: his senior executive that there are steps in place to
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  Speaker 2: have those discussions with those members. But of course, you know,
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  Speaker 2: you want to know the real reasons why people are leaving,
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  Speaker 2: and sometimes I think people don't feel confident enough at
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  Speaker 2: that early stage to really express the reasons why they're leaving.
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  Speaker 2: So that's why we try and touch base with them
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  Speaker 2: as you know, as they are leaving, or perhaps some
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  Speaker 2: weeks after they've left to have those discussions to find
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  Speaker 2: out some of those reasons, and we continue to do that.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I tell you there's a lot of text messages
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  Speaker 1: coming through this morning as we're talking, Paul, I'll just
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  Speaker 1: read one of these. It says, Hi, kat I've heard
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  Speaker 1: that when a police employee applies for a transfer, they're
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  Speaker 1: put under investigation to slow down their ability to leave.
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  Speaker 1: Slash transfer might be a good one to us, as
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  Speaker 1: commissioner says, this text, is that something that you've been told.
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  Speaker 2: Look, there's all sorts of rumors get around. You know
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  Speaker 2: that people do apply to going to state and as
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  Speaker 2: part of that process is the other police forces request
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  Speaker 2: what's called an integrity check on members that are currently
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  Speaker 2: in the police force here. And you know, so that's
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  Speaker 2: a normal process to go through. You know what comes
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  Speaker 2: of that is dependent on that members record in terms
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  Speaker 2: of their integrity up here.
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  Speaker 1: So like a reference check, I suppose, like a reference check. Well,
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  Speaker 1: Police Association President, Paul mcew, it's always good to catch
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  Speaker 1: up with you. We always appreciate your time. Thanks so
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  Speaker 1: much for having a chat this morning.
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  Speaker 2: No worries.
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  Speaker 1: Have a great day, Katie, you too, thank you,