Latest / The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast / Befriending The Other Woman

Transcript

Befriending The Other Woman · The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Do Part two.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: It's your favorite real life Bessie's Yes we are still
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: single is Thelma and Louise. But on this podcast today,
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: we thought it would be really interesting to pivot off
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: of our story and bring on another non celebrity gal
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: who went through some serious heartbreak out of her marriage,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: navigated the dating world, and has found herself happily remarried,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: living her amazing Chapter two. Welcome Jennifer. Would just like
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: to quickly point out that Jennifer and I have been
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: best friends since we were in high school.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: She ruled the school.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be her and I still want to
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: be her because she has absolutely been I muse as
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I've watched her gracefully, go through divorce, date like a fiend,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: and now get remarried to the most amazing man. So Jennifer,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: take it away, teach us what to do and how
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: we can live the life that you are living well, and.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Before we actually I want to interrupt before we begin.
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: I also know Jennifer through Louise, and I have not
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: known her nearly as long as Louise has, but have
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: formed a friendship with her over the last couple of
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: years and really only know her in her life today,
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: so don't know well, I've heard, but don't know a
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: lot about her history. So this is going to be
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: equally as interesting to me as it hopefully will be
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: to all of you listeners. Jennifer getting to your story,
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: take us back to the beginning and tell us a
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: little bit about your love journey and your chapter one.
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: Okay, first off, I just need you both to know
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: you could give my eulogy.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Well, let's hope you're not going anywhere unbelievable. We're not
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: doing life without you, but carry on.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: All right, Okay, in a like a cliff note version.
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: I was married young, but back then it didn't feel young.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: So I was married, had two kids, fully in love
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: with my husband at the time, and after about six
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: years marriage, ten years together, we have two kids in
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: diapers and I wake up one day.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: It's important to give some color to the age.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: What age were you when you got married and how
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: old were your babies when all this was going on.
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: So I was married at twenty six, I had children
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: at twenty eight and thirty. When I woke up one
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: day and realized the marriage was over, I had an
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: eleven month old.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: And one and a half year old, right, yes.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, so I had like a two and an eleven
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: month old.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's definitely the clipnote version. Take us back
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: a little bit.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: How was your marriage so prior.
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: To I would say it was a healthy relationship that
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: had its normal problems, certainly nothing that I ever saw coming.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: That we were you know that we were done. But
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: when you go through a process like that throughout the
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: next months and years, you start things start to click
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: and you go, oh, okay, I'm reading now I understand
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: what that was where I didn't understand to look for
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: certain things at the time.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: But what were what were some of the normal problems.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's see.
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: So I have a pew, kids and diapers, and we
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: didn't have sex enough. We I wasn't emotionally affectionate enough.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: That according to him or how you felt towards him,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: that you weren't bringing me you know, this.
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: Was according to him, and why he left me, So
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: I you know, of course all those things. It's kind
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: of like when you're younger and someone a teacher or
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: a family member tells you something and it sticks with
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: you for the rest of your life. So now here
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: I am when I find out why he's left me
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: or his reason for why he left me, I'm now
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: all messed up in my head because I'm like, oh,
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: I'm not affectionate enough, I'm not emotionally available enough, we're
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: not having sex enough. So I was using all of
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: those is like why I wasn't a good enough wife
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: and why he left me? Did you think you were
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: having problems or were.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: You kind of in la la land about it?
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: And we're completely surprised because everything you just said were
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: basically kind of complaints.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: He was blaming you for.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: I remember speaking to one of my friends that I'm
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: very close with and telling her that I wasn't very
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: happy about how I was feeling. I wasn't I was
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: not sure what I was feeling. I just knew I
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: wasn't totally happy. And one of the things, the main
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: thing I thought was we have two kids, and diapers
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: were really busy, and right now some of our own
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: one on one relationship is going to be on the
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: back burner because here we are, like, you know, racing
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: around with you know, this one needs diaper change, this
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: one needs a feeding, like you just life is.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: It was hectic at that time.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't always see yourself or your relationship, at
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: least in the short term. With young children, maybe is
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: the priority. And so it's hard to make sense. Is
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: this a relationship issue or just a time of life
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: change in our relationship?
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I didn't.
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: You know, I will take credit in maybe I didn't
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: give him the kind of attention he needed, but I
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: didn't know I wasn't.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: So you began to sense the you know, the unraveling
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: was happening.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: But you know, everything had the babies, you just bought
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: that brand new house, and.
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: By the way, there was no one raveling. That's the
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: part that was so crazy is that I literally was
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: like I thought I was going crazy when he basically
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: told me he was leaving, Well, he didn't.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Tell me who was leaving.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: He gaslated you. He was a trainer and you.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Helped him through a relationship land what became his biggest client. Now,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: as listeners, do we all see where this is going?
• 6:31
  Speaker 6: Probably not.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So let's hear it from you, Jennifer.
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: So what happened? So to speak? Like how did this
• 6:38
  Speaker 6: bomb go off?
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: So again, you know, I think a few months before
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: I found out, I remember being on a trip with
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: him and realizing that we weren't connecting. And the one
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: thing I always knew about our relationship was we always connected.
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: It just took a minute if we were busy with
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: our lives. But when we would go out to a
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: party or go out to dinner with a couple, we'd
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: come home and like regroup to our what our night
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: was like, even though we were experiencing the night differently.
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: And whenever we went on trips, we really bonded.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: And so we went on this trip and I.
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: Came home and I remember coming downstairs and saying to him,
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: we didn't bond on this trip.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: You were so distant.
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: Something wasn't right. I don't feel good at all. And
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: one of the things we used to do is play
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: rummyque and so I remember going upstairs and being sad.
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: And then he came downstairs and he had the rummy
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: que out on the kitchen table, like he was extending
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: an olive branch to our conversation.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: So here I was thinking, Okay, he.
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: Acknowledges that we weren't vibing on this trip, and he's
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: trying to make better for it, and like, you know,
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: make make it go away, Like let's start from here.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: So for me, there was no awareness of that he
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: was having issues with me.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: But was he staying out? Was he coming home late?
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: Like, well, I guess when you are somebody who has
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: a day job as a trainer. He was home at night,
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: so it was the daytime that I would have no
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: idea to question where he was and all of that.
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: But there was one moment that we were at we
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: were at an amusement park and we ran into the
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: person that he had started to train when all of
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: this distance started to take place, and I thought that
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: was very weird that we ran into her, only because
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: if he wasn't with me at this amusement park and
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: one of my boys, then he would have been seeing
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: her to train her that day, so there had to
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: be some sort of awareness of what their day was.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I think at this point, let's just rip the band
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: aid off on that and quickly say that he started.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Having an affair with this person.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: So can you tell us about how you found out
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: kind of what happened, how the explosion happened, Because it
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: was a shock, the babies were young. I watched all
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: of this, so why don't you share with our listeners
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: what happened?
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: So I remember, you know, not to get like I mean,
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: I could tell you the day, and I can tell
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: you the time, the actual time of day, and what
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: I was doing in my kitchen when this happened. And
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: I remember it was probably the second or third time
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: in that process of about a month and a half
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: that I said to him on the phone, because he
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: was on his way to go train his client. I said,
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: I'm not happy, and it wasn't the first time I
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: said it to him. And this time, instead of him
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: gaslighting me, bringing out the rummy cue table, you know, game,
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: telling me nothing's wrong, he said on the other line,
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: neither am I, and those three words.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Right then and there, I knew my marriage was over.
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: And I remember saying, you need to come home and
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: I and we need to talk about this.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: And I remember him saying to me, I.
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: Can't right now, like there were other priorities, which to
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: me was baffling, because how could there be anything else
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: important other than God forbid something happens to your child.
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: You come home after a conversation like that, And he
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: he finished his day or his client and then came home.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Obviously it makes sense now what he was doing. But
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: when he came home.
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: I kind of grilled him like is there another person? No,
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: there's no other person, is there?
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: What is going on? I don't understand?
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: And he just told me that he wasn't happy, but
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: you couldn't tell me why he wasn't happy. And so
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: I can't remember exactly the chronological way it came about,
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: but it definitely, you know, lended itself to I'm not affectionate,
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: I'm not emotionally available, that kind of stuff.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: And again it didn't line up because.
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: We I mean, we were celebrating our tenure together and
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: we kept the same anniversaries or as a wedding date,
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: so we were celebrating almost seven years of marriage, whatever
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: the years were. So for me, I couldn't make sense
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: of it. I mean I went so far as to like,
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: heck the vitamins he was taking? Like is he is
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: there something wrong? I couldn't make sense of it.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Well, because you would ask the questions, you'd ask the
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: poignant questions, and it sounds like they weren't He didn't
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: really answer them.
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: He kind of put them back on you.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: That's what they all do, right, I mean, all these
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: men get caught, they they flip it around and they
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: say no, you didn't do this, or you didn't you know,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: you didn't show me the love or the affections.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: They try to like deflect it. Did you did you.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Ever, like from when you found out versus you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: having a weird feeling, were you doing any like snooping
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: or kind of searching around or obviously there was no
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: life three sixty or anything.
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: Well, so remember this is two thousand and two, so
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: we didn't have the same like texting hadn't even really
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: happened yet, so it was different. So the only thing
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: I could have done is waited for a bill to
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: come in the mail for credit card, and it didn't
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: even dawn on me to do that, so we didn't
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: have that kind of snooping around.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: However, I do remember, well, I.
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: Do remember seeing one credit card bill, but it was
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: after I had already found out, so it was irrelevant.
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: And it was flowers, and I knew they weren't for me,
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: but at that point it was just another like, you know,
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: pain in my heart, but I had already.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Known at that point, how did you actually find out?
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: So he we had friends that we shared, but most
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: we both came to the table with you know, I
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: came with a lot of friends, and he came with
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: a small group of friends. And I always kept my
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: distance from some of his friends because I knew about
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: certain things that I just I always thought it was
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: a little safer that, like, they were his friends. Plus
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: I have so many friends, it was good for him
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: to have his own friends. But there was one friend
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: that I became friendly with, the wife and prior to
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: us splitting about probably several years before, they had had
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: a marriage miss miss like.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: They definitely had a moment hiccup.
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: And while that was happening, my husband asked me if
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: the husband could live with us, and of course we
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: had the space, and he lived with us, and thankfully
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: they worked out their marriage. They had a young kid
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: in diapers at the time, and so living with us
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: helped him get back on his feet with what he
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: needed to do in his marriage.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: So they are still together.
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: And what happened was for about two weeks from that
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: day that he told me he wasn't happy, and me
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: trying to figure out, like, is this a midlife crisis?
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: There's not another person, he said, what is happening? What
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: is my role in this? What can I do to
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: make it better? He went and he stayed with a
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: mutual family friend and I about twelve days into this nightmare,
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: I get a phone call and it's from this couple
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: and the husband had told the wife, and the wife
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: was like, she helped us during our hardest times. Got
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: to know that she came and she said, he's having
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: an affair with this person.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, were you sucker punched?
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: It didn't surprise me, but it gutted me. So I
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: don't know. I mean, I knew there was an inkling
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: of something wasn't right with this person in him. But
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: when he told me that there was no affair, I
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: believed him.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: I really did. I did not think he was a liar.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: And you wanted to believe him, right.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: We all have that kind of voice in our head
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: where something just kind of raises the hairs on our neck.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: But at the same time we choose to not want
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: to see things or we want to believe somebody's words.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Because your whole life, as you knew with young it
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: was getting blown up, you know, saying like, yeah, I
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: mean absolutely blown up.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: And one of the things I'll say is I also
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: come from you know, my parents now have been together
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: over sixty two years, and yes they've had problems, and
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: yes they've you know, I don't know everything that's happened
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: in their marriage, but I always I came from stability
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: of this, this, this example of two people that truly
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: loved and liked each other, and so getting cheated on
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: was like not in my repertoire.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I need to now bring something up because it's something
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: you and I have now since discussed and we look
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: at it differently.
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: Yes, I don't know if you know what I'm not.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I know what you're gonna say.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: So when you met him train her husband, yep, Yep,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: he was well finishing a relationship. Yep, it was still
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: in a relationship. And I always believe once a cheater,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: always a cheater. And you said, well, he younger and
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: we were kids, and you know it's different.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: It's like no, no, no, no, no, that was his pattern.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: That was still his pattern.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And quite frankly, when we tell our listeners what's going
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: on now, I think it's still his pattern.
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: And I don't, but I hear you and agree with
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: you what I would say, and I just as bad
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: as it is that it's like, oh, he was with
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: somebody when I met him. I was twenty one, and
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: he was telling me he was not going to be
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: with her anymore, and I said, I'm not going to
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: be with anybody while they're with somebody. But we did
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: form an emotional relationship in that process without things happening.
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: But at twenty one, you don't know better.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I wasn't a comment on you, no more me identifying
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: a potential red flag in him. That was maybe just
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: you know, in hindsight, you say to yourself, hmm.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: It makes total sense.
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: But I guess were you and I differ about the
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: once a cheater, always a cheater.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Is I do believe that I did, for you.
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: Know, the twenty years they were together, I did believe
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: that he really wouldn't do that. And I don't know
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: if he did or didn't, But I do believe that
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: as we get older and our relationships and life gets on,
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: I do believe that affairs happen for different reasons. So
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: you have couples, and I know some of them who
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: they're not.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: They're not sexually.
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: Involved with each other anymore, but they love each other,
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: so they stay together.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: For that reason.
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: And one of the people in the relationship doesn't want
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: to have sex. I mean I've even said to some
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: of the people I know, guys and girls in this
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: situation where I'm like, if they did step out of
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: their marriage, it wouldn't be the same version of an
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: affair that I think what he did to.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Me at the time, there's there's you know, a lot
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: of ways to skin skin that cat.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: But so she hit the fan for you, big hit.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: And what I remember watching because I think this is
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: kind of like really heartbreaking, bad situation. But what I
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: appreciated about you is you hit the ground running on
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the dating thing. Now, it was probably a reaction to
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: the rejection and how you were feeling, and you wanted
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: to rip that bandy down quickly, and you were like
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: spinning and spiraling and you were literally juggling so much.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: But you, I think within.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: The first month on one on a date, multiple dates
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: correct a week later.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: Wait, I want to take a step back though for
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: a second. I know this is maybe not a popular
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: thing to say, but Dan, you are a smart, capable woman,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: and even if you did have two small children and
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: might have been, you know, in a fog raising kids
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: at the time, was there any part of you that
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: when you found out relief probably is not the right word,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: but in a way like Okay, I'm not crazy, and
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: now I have to deal, you know, with this, and
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: at least I know, like because I think so much
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: of it often can be the not knowing and thinking
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: you're going crazy and so what do you do because
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: you don't have the information.
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: I think that getting the information was an aha, not
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: even an aha moment, but a It clarified things for me,
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: But then it brought in a whole other level of
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: spitch for me that I couldn't. I didn't for those
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: two weeks, wasn't even thinking.
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: About so like tell us, tell us more you know
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: about that?
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: Well, just now your brain is like, Okay, he's with
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: this woman. My kids are in diapers, she's going to
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: raise them.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Uh, you know I have to sell the house. Uh
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: what am I going to do?
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: You know, my job doesn't make enough money, but I
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: love what I do. I just now have to kick
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: it into gear, like your life kind of last years
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: in front of you, Like what am I going to do?
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: And I've got two kids in diapers? And who's going
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: to want to date? Who's going to want to date
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: a girl with two kids and diapers?
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Good point?
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: How old were you at the time.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Do you know thirty one okay, I is so young?
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, uh, thirty one to thirty two okay.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: So Louise alluded to the fact that you hit the
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: dating scenes. So in the midst of your crazy probably
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: you know, no, no sleeping and your mind going a
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: mile a minute on what your life looked like. Practically speaking,
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: it sounds like you started dating.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: I started dating. I slept with somebody probably the first
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: two weeks into this, and I remember it was so.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Bad, unlike her nun like friends Alma. Louise, Well, here's.
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: The thing at but but you got to remember I
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: was with I was in relationships from like fifteen on,
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: so I never got to like sexually experienced. I was
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: experiencing a lot of different experiences.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: And how'd you like it? I mean, were you having fun?
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: Were you doing that and then going home and crying?
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: Or was it like Actually, so the.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: First point is the best I'm dating this guy.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Well on just interrupt were your kids going back and
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: forth between both houses? So you had fifty percent of
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: the time to kind of.
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: At the time before anything happened. It went seventy thirty
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: because we had to go through mediation and all that
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: before I was going to just give up more time
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: with the kids. But I did have parents who were
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: right up the street from me. So if it was
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: a Thursday night and I would let the kids go
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: to sleep, I and they, you know, be with a
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: family member or somebody who was in my home, so
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: it wasn't like I was leaving them. I was part
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: of the day, and then I could go out where
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: I didn't have to introduce anybody to them.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: How did you meet people, because did online dating even exist?
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, the only thing that existed was Jada and
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: Match and it was so so new. You didn't have Facebook,
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: you didn't have any of that. So it was just
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: Match and Jada and you couldn't verify.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: You really couldn't verify people.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and when I well, the first date that I
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: had had nothing to do with any of these apps.
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: I in the beginning, I was being set up. And
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: this first day, this poor guy, he was so lovely.
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: He would if I had like something, a furniture that
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: needed to be moved, he'd come and move it. She
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: was so good looking, and he was younger than me,
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: and I'm not into younger guys, but this guy. It
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: was the first when we the first time we slept together,
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: I just started bawling in front of him. Sure it
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: was so awful because all I wanted to do was
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: be home And I remember as we started dating, he
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: slept over once on a week and that my kids
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: weren't here. And in the morning he said to me,
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: do you eat breakfast? And I was like, yeah, like
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: why and he's like, well, I don't know, do you.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: You know, do you want a breakfast or whatever?
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: And the way I reacted to him, he looked at
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: me and he said, wow, if that wasn't here's some
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: eggs in a big.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Cup of get the fuck out of here.
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: And I was like, I'm so glad you get it,
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: Like yeah, like I want you out, I want like
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: nothing to do with you right now.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: And there's a part of you that wants to move on,
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: and like that's that's your right.
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: You know. During the day, I think I was really
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: emotionally distraught, lived a rejection feeling all day long.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: So there was kind of a duality to your life
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: going on at this point, right, like totally all like.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: A major duality that is so beyond painful. In addition
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: to her you know, dealing with the fact of the
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: infidelity and a rejection and having to navigate dating and
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: still having heartbreak. There was another woman who was mothering
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: her children in diapers, very different than a fifteen year
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: old kid who's dealing with the stepmom. I mean, I
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: never got over the stories you told me, like I
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: was seeing red.
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: And I was always so impressed.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: With how you stayed high when I would have want
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: to ripped, I would have ripped my child off of
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: her lap.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So you had a lot on.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Your plate that was painful, uncomfortable, unchartered territory. And I
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: just want to compliment you, Jennifer, because you always do
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: wow me with how you hat no genuinely the.
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: One thing I would say that I've learned at looking
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: back on it and have some humility in I did
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: with some of these guys' heads, because I would get
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: a drink in me, see them at night and be
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: in it, and then in the morning I'd want to
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: be out of it. And I think I really messed
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: with their heads, and I think I hurt people and
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: used them, and at the time I didn't know that's
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: what I was doing, But looking back on it, I
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: definitely played a role in not, you know, behaving the
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: way I would want someone to treat me.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: Do you feel like you did that because it was
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: again the duality of your life where it's like you
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: wanted the freedom and the lightness at night and then
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: the heaviness of the day.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Or do you feel like you inherently at.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: The time were kind of having trust issues with men
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: and just weren't going to ever let yourself or let
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: your guards down and creating a wall.
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: You know, I didn't have trust issues with men because
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: I didn't. I only found myself in relationships. And this
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: is what's interesting because this is where your I do
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: part two comes in for you girls dating and not
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: that you don't know this, but I I realized that
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: all of these men that really were giving me their
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: attention and wanting relationships, I think they wanted the relationships
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: because I couldn't care less. I could take it or
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: leave it, and so that was what was attractive to them,
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: and that is why they were still in it because
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: I didn't care it, didn't need them.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: You were like the dude in the relationship I was.
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: I was, and I didn't know it at the time.
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: I just now when I looked back on all of
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: those pieces of my life, I realized, Yeah, they wanted
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: me because they couldn't have.
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: Me if you were unavailable. You can't fake that, you know,
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: it's just it is or it isn't.
• 27:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, So tell us about how you met your current
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: love and how long it took, you know, just briefly,
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: like you dated around.
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: I dated for like, let's see, I dated for about
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: five years and then one day Father's Day and I
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: was coming home from Malibi.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: When I was in the back seat of my.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: Parents' car, and out of nowhere, one of my parents said, oh,
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: so and so gave your number to this guy. And
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: I remember thinking, okay, whatever, I'll never hear from him,
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: so it didn't matter.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: And then I remember walking.
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: My parents dropped me off, and I came into the
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: house and my health phone rang and I answered it
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: and it was this guy, and I was thinking to myself, really,
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: first of all, I had a BlackBerry, so he called
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: me on my house phone, which I thought was wild,
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: But then again, who gave him my number was an
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: older person, so they're going to go with the house phone.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: He's had a really good phone. And then we ran
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: on our first.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Date well, he's a babe, and he's funny.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: He's very funny, very relevant of humor, back kind of guy,
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: full integrity, more than I've ever seen.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: But it was a slow burn for you, which is
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: an obden because this is a lesson You're always trying
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: to teach me and to teach.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Thellman to teach other people.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Is you know, the slow burn sometimes has the staying power,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: and it's the integrity and all of those kind of
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: characteristics which are so much more important than the immediate
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: butterfly or the whatever the spark you feel or the
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: things that you think are important that really aren't.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: So talk a little bit about him, and it was
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: it was a slat.
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: I remember when he.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Proposed to you, you were you had some pause.
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And I knew I didn't want to give
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: the relationship up and if you say no, then where
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: do you go from there? But I also knew that
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: I wanted him in my life, and so I had
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: to really think about that. But it was, you know,
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: me to him that first night at dinner, he like
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: interrogated me. He's so bad on dates.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: But he was so funny. I remember going home, I remember.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Calling my mom in the car saying, yeah, there was
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: a great date.
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: He's really handsome. I'll never hear from him again. And
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: she's like, why I said, I'm too old for him,
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: because he's ten years older than me. But at the time,
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: you know, he could have had, you know, girls in
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: their thirties, and that's just the real I was in
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: my thirties, you know what I mean, girls in their twenties,
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: and he you know, it's just a double standard. And
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: so I just thought I'd never hear from him. And
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: the next morning I opened up my BlackBerry and there
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: was a text that made me laugh, and I was like, Okay,
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: I'm into it.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: I'm in this.
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: And we always say how important laughter is.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: It's my favorite thing, so important. I mean, it's like,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: and he.
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: Makes me he's funny. He's funny, and that is something
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: that like when somebody says, like, what are your favorite
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: qualities about him? You know, everybody's always alwayways, but the
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: funny And yes, I know he's handsome. I'm not discrediting that.
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: And yes, what I've ended up with him if he
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: wasn't handsome, I don't know. Maybe I wouldn't have gotten
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: to the next steps with him. But certainly that is
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: not what our relationship is about.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: And it's been seventeen years, sixteen, sixteen years, And what
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I have witnessed just in being in your lives, and
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: I know what you've also shared is his integrity has
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: continued every day because he really and I think it's
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: important to talk about how he really stepped up in
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: a meaningful way as a co parent to your children.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: And what really mattered to me he brought to the table.
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: And you always say that I think what I'm marvel
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: at is that you obviously your first chapter was a huge,
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: you know, a huge pivot and in your life that
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: you never expected.
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: But yet you have been able to.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Go on and date and get married and.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: Having been, you know, through a divorce myself, I think
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: time is the greatest healer and everybody wants to expedite that,
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: and you just can't to a certain extent. But what
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: other things or advice would you give to people that
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: are struggling kind of post divorce right now?
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: Like, what advice would you give to them?
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: And what do you think helped you, you know, remain
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: open to finding love and dating again.
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: Well, I feel like even though I always felt like
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: I was walking around with like that scarlet letter on
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: me that I was left. I was the girl that
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: you know here, I was at you know, a school
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: where all the kids in kindergarten and first grade and
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: second grade, and my kids were like everybody's parents were married.
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: And I always felt like I had this this like
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: this thing I was carrying with me that I walked
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: around during the day as somebody who was left. And
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: I think that was something that I brought to my
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: inner core.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: But I didn't present that on my dates, and.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: When I was one, you never did.
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: But I carried it inside my core. And so for me,
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: I am a slow learner, so it took me, I
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: would say, just till COVID. So that's what four years
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: ago when it finally clicked that this wasn't.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: A me issue. I played a part in it of
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: all the.
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: Stuff that happened through those you know, years of raising
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: my kids with him and having to go through that
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: very difficult process, but it wasn't a me issue. And
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: I always thought it was. I thought I was the
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: bad person in I wasn't handling it well. I was
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: creating more drama than needed to be and some of
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: it I was but I finally realized something clicked about
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: four years ago. I saw him at a parking lot
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: and it just dawned on me.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Oh no, this is a hymn issue.
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: This is who he is or was, and who he
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: is with me, and I've allowed him to dictate how
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: I feel about myself. And I finally woke up that day.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: I remember coming home going It's like I just purged
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: all that stuff I held about me and was able
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: to actually feel and work on me for the first time.
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: That must be, I mean, so freeing.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: And it kind of segues, I feel like into our
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: next topic, which you may know what that is. But
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: in a strange turn of events, right, your ex husband
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: recently and did his relationationship with the woman who helped facilitate.
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: The end of the home Wrecker.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: We're going to call her the HOMEWRECKERP stop stop sorry
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: home wrecker.
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: Tell us a little bit more about that and some
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: the irony here.
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: I would say throughout all these you know, I call
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: it twenty years because really I think about it was
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: twenty years in this process of their relationship, and.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: There were times where the two of us.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: We always you know, we always did birthday dinners, graduations,
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: important things we would do together.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: And you always showed up with a smile on your face,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: and you were so mature and so gracious because you
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: did not want your children to suffer.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: And the truth is, my kids were going to pick
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: up on stuff regardless. I mean, there's only so much
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: we can hide from our kids, and depending on their age.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: I was lucky that my kids were the age they were,
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: so I.
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: Was able to navigate that a lot easier than other
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: people we know who go through this with their kids
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: being of a different age. So I would say that
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: throughout the years, we were either hot and cold with
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: each other.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: There'd be times where my ex and I were fine
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: with each other.
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: We're never great with each other, but we'd be fine,
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: and then there were times when we were not fine
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: at all. And I'm sure she had to feed off
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: of that and navigate and was also only hearing his
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: version of what was going on, although she was strivy
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: to the emails and the bullshit.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: That we did, but.
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: She was coming from his place and she needed to
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: support him. But what I would say is I would
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: say to you, Louise, I would say like.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I could see us.
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: Being friends if we didn't have this situation, and you'd like,
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: out of your mind, like what, like that's not possible.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: But I always knew that we had. We were comfortable,
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: awkwardly a comfortable renditions.
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: I says a lot.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: About you, because there are many women who are in
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: this situation that can't even be in the same room
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: as somebody. And it's just a testament to who you are.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting because now that their relationship has ended and.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Life is full circle.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, and you know your kids have obviously remained close
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: to her because she did be you know, she was
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: a part of you know, parenting them for twenty years.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: But I just find it so fascinating what is going
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: on with the two of you if you share their listeners,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: because I think this is so interesting, and I think
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: you know, for people of experiences and maybe in the
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: throes of a situation like this, you know to see
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: how life can change and in the most unexpected circumstances, you.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Have a new friend and a new auty.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: And and I also think please bring up to everybody
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: that like the story she was told was different than
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: what happened.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: It was different than the story he told you.
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: Huh, And I think I think she We ran into
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: each other several months ago and we had a conversation,
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: and that conversation led into her calling me after the conversation,
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: like fifteen minutes later and having a little bit more
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: of a conversation, and then when I hung up, I
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: had said to her, if you ever.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: Want to grab a drink, I'm available.
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: And I think somehow within a few weeks later she
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: may have texted me and that was my opportunity to
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: basically ask her out for dinner.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Did you offer that as some version of a closure
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: that you needed or were you offering it to be,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: you know, an ear for her to talk to.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: I think as a combination, because I had already made
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: my own closure, so I didn't need it so much,
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: but I would have loved if I was given that
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: at the time. And one of the things that she
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: said to me after our first dinner, our first.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Date, how many have you had now?
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: I think four or five?
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're almost exclusive at this point. You're going
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: to join our girls dinner soon. You don't want to
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: sit her at a table with a few of us,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: but go on, do your kids know that you guys?
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: Oh?
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, No, we definitely talk to the kids.
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: The kids are too old to not know, and they
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: actually are very happy about it.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Does your ex husband know.
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: Well, I'll share that in a second. But what we've
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: given each other is forgiveness. We've given each other a space.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: To feel.
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: Seen and heard, and it's safe, hopefully to share the
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: pain we've both experienced, and that very few people can
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: experience that kind of pain.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: And I think it is been healing more so for
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: her to be able to have that.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: But I also think it gives honestly, because she's heartbroken,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: well we assume, we assume, yeah, okay, and she loved him,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: And I also think if I were in her seat
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: and I would see that the beautiful life that you created,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: you know, and the phoenix out of the ashes, it
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: would give me hope that I too can experience, you know,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: another chapter after what happened to her, And I think
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: that that's part of it also.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: Well, and I think as a side note, do you
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: remember a couple of weeks ago you also said, oh,
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: we should set her up with this stuff, which I
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: was like, wow, I mean that if that is not
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: the kindest person I've ever met, Yes, but that's not
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: a light note, but more seriously, when Louise said, you know, Jennifer,
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: if that had happened to a lot of people your story,
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: never would they have been kind or welcoming or any
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: of those things to the X and the ex's partner.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: But I think that I think that you are such
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: an example because so often the anger that we hold
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: when we are going through a divorce, we fail to
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: realize that it's like that anger is just a.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Cancer in us and it's punishing ourselves.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: And it's really easy to say, you know, oh, move on,
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: but it's like it's when that miracle happens that you
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: finally can let go and you realize that you're like,
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: I'm just punishing myself and keeping myself in this folding
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: pattern by staying angry and giving the other person and
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: the event and all of it like more at your time.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: And I think you're such an example of how to
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: do it.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: And in the rear view mirror, it makes you really
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: subscribe to rejection is redirection.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: It really, it really isn't you know?
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: I would say It's definitely shaped me for who I
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: am now, and I think I'm the best version of
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: myself to date, always room for improvement. But one of
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: the things I didn't mention was when I met my husband,
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: he is a product of this very same situation.
• 42:19
  Speaker 6: So he came to.
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: My life and opened up my eyes what it felt
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: like as a kid going through this.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: So he helped me navigate that place. He also helped me navigate.
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: What it was like because one of the things that
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: I wanted was I wanted my ex do approve.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: Of me, to like me. I wanted his wife to
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: or girlfriend to like me.
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: And it's the same thing as I was saying with dating.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: If you want something.
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: So bad, you're so not attractive and you're not going
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: to get that. And when I finally realized, when I
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: said earlier, oh this isn't a me issue, there was
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: nothing and I the only thing I was doing was
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: forcing something that they didn't want with me.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: But that was you trying to resolve probably the rejection piece,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: right like, yeah, that was still trying you to kind
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: of get their approval and be lovable basically because you
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: were so you heart And what you learned to do was, basically, to.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Quote mel Robbins, let them and then let me right.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, But that took me so long. Of course
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: it really did.
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: Like I said, I'm a slow learner, but when it
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: finally clicked, I went, oh, okay, Like I wish I
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: could take back time and like apply it then, but
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: I just didn't have it. And Thoma, when you asked
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: me earlier, like what kind of advice would you give
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: in my business? I am. I am approached by women
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: and some men, but mostly women weakly with a situation
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: like this because some degree, whether it's about an affair
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: or a marriage not working out, or a relationship ending.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: And the best advice I would.
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: Give for me is, and I've said this so many
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: times to people.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: In my office, is be kind.
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: He You can be in a relationship and not be
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: happy and want out, but just be kind about it.
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: And I've said that so many people who are not
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: in marriages that are working, and I'll say to them,
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: just all I can offer is if you don't want
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: to be in this marriage and your partner does, be
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: kind about it. Because a marriage, if it's not gonna work,
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: it's not gonna work. But how you treat somebody at
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: the end of the.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: Day you exit, it's how that is huge. And also
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: it's not the way it looks today is not the
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: way it necessarily looks five years, ten years, Like I
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: guess you know so, so you always need to act
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: with integrity kind of back to what you said.
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And one of the things on our first date
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: or after our first date, she said to me, you
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: deserved a different ending. And that was something that really
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: resonated with me because it was like thank you now
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: you like at least it.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Was like the end in aha moment you needed that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: It was her version of an apology. So before we close,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: I do have an important question as somebody who is
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: in a very day to day, uh you know, situations
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: with Ethelman myself.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: So you are.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Somebody who dated, successfully, tried on a lot, has been
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: in a really happy marriage. What advice would would you
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: give to us so that we too can get to
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: your kind of final destination?
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: What are we doing wrong?
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Like share with our listeners as somebody who's you know,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: basically stepped through that sliding door and we're still we're
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: still where we are, Like help help us.
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: I think it's less about what you're doing wrong. I
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: think I feel two different things with Louise.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: I feel this is good.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Brace yourself up. I know you're comes the attack on Louise, and.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: I've said this to you, you need to give something
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: more time. I don't think you need to give something
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: time that doesn't feel good from the get go. But
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: when you are, you know you've met somebody that makes
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: you feel excited and looking forward to going on that
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: next date and that next date, and when you're with them,
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: you come back feeling really good. And when you're not
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: with them, out of sight, out of mind. I think that,
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: and I've said this to you, you need that push
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: of spending the night and waking up and going through
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: the awkward breakfast, right yeah, and like all of your quirks.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: And stuff more gray, not black or white, like you
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: have to decide am I going?
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: Am I going ahead with this? Or am I break?
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: Like, just be in it enough that you know that
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: you know, you really know that person intimately, not sexually,
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: but intimately before you know if they're right or wrong
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: for you unless there's.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: No feeling, I got it.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: It's just hard because the opportunity of having dinners with
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Felma and Jennifer like we'll be doing in one hour,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: is just it really lights me up.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: I have to say, it's a very it's a very
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: hard expel. And what advice would you give me?
• 47:27
  Speaker 6: I know what's my advice?
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, So your advice is.
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: I have noticed as we've gotten closer that you you
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: really could care less about putting yourself together and going out.
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: You'd rather put yourself together to go out with the girls,
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: And you'd rather you have a date and him cancel, and.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: You're happy about it.
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: You are so true.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: That is not going.
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: To get you out there meeting mister wonderful who gets
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: to appreciate you.
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: Now, I told you my brothers always said they are
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: not going to find you in your home near your pajamas.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And by the way, I mean like that last date.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: I was just so happy you went on it for
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: forty minutes.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: It was fifty eight minutes. Guys, it was fifty eight minutes.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Tell them when I said to you, so just quickly
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: and then we'll close up. So she had a date
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: last week, and we don't want to We want to
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: leave them wanting more. So we were going to cap
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: it at an hour five thirty, and then I was
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: going to swoop it again her at six thirty, and
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: then we were going to go hit a vault.
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: Wait, let me first say, do you know what? Louise
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: initially said, Okay, well, just keep your seats at the bar,
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: tell him you're ending the date, and I'll just take
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: his seat. And I was like, oh god, I am
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: a lot of things, but I am not tone deaf.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: I am not going to tell him to get up
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: so somebody could take his seat. I'm like, I'm going
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: to go out the back door or the front door,
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: and you're going to swing by and pick me up.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: But when I well I had said to her, was
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I said, look, I'm going to check in mid date
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: and if you want to continue the date, you could.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: We don't have to have dinner that night. So I
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: text her and I'm like, Yo, should I get in
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: the car. She goes, yeah, I'll be ready in five minutes.
• 49:04
  Speaker 8: I was like, what traffic and she goes, all, i'll
• 49:08
  Speaker 8: pick you up because no, I'll walk across the street.
• 49:10
  Speaker 8: Our seats at the bar and she was perched there
• 49:13
  Speaker 8: and when I walked in, I felt like the prombling
• 49:16
  Speaker 8: her face lit up.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: You were so happy to see And.
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: I got totally buzzed that night, because like I was
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: giddy when I met Luise. It was like I nursed
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: a drink with him and then I was like, oh
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: my night can begin.
• 49:27
  Speaker 6: Yes, I definitely.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: So you see what you're connecting the dots here.
• 49:30
  Speaker 6: I am thanks.
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: I want you to get giddy when you see your girlfriends,
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: but I want you to make an effort to just
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: not a date a week, but just don't just set
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: your standards of like I'm gonna show up, I hit
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: the data week.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: I I am all for the data week.
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: I understand. And by the way, kudos to you that
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: you guys can find that and do it. I mean
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: it's hard when two dates this week.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: I'm very propsed to burn, but you know two days well,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I just have to tell you, Jennifer, thank you so
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: much honestly for coming on and sharing your story.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: It's it's very nice when somebody is willing to be vulnerable.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: And thanks for sharing your journey and telling everyone our
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: listeners what you've been through. And hopefully it serves to
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: be inspirational for people who are going through it right
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: now and kind of a lesson that even if you
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: have a traumatic experience, you still can find your part two.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just just one more thing to add
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: if you guys, as our listeners, enjoyed participating in Jennifer's
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: you Know story film, and I have a lot of
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: people with a lot of stories that would love to
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: come on and share.
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: So, oh, there's so many people with these kinds of stories.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: We have a big crew people, so if this resonates
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: with our listeners, let us know.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: But the people who you know again, they're going through it,
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: but they also have a light at the end of
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: the tunnel. So if you are struggling with post divorce,
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: we would love to help you. Apparently I'm not be
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: the right person as I've just been given the advice,
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: but please call or email us, follow us on socials,
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: and all of the information will be in the show notes,
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: so make sure to rate and review this podcast. I
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: is the main objective.