Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Couple sex attacked & murdered on date night, 'Pot-Mom' feeds baby pot-mac-n-cheese

Transcript

Couple sex attacked & murdered on date night, 'Pot-Mom' feeds baby pot-mac-n-cheese · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious XM Triumph Channel
0:11
Speaker 1: one thirty two. I don't think that we're ever going
0:20
Speaker 1: to get true justice on the service. We had heard
0:24
Speaker 1: a report on TV about a body being found. It
0:28
Speaker 1: was badly burned on the railroad tracks, but never did
0:32
Speaker 1: we ever connected to two. We are two blocks from
0:37
Speaker 1: where she was. If that had just knocked on the door,
0:39
Speaker 1: walked the streets, we I don't We don't know if
0:42
Speaker 1: we could have saved her life, but she wouldn't have
0:44
Speaker 1: sat there for two days in a trash can. A
0:50
Speaker 1: crime that's trikes terror into the hearts of parents across
0:56
Speaker 1: our country. Uh wonderful, bright young couple carjacked after a
1:03
Speaker 1: Saturday night date night and murdered in the most horrific
1:08
Speaker 1: way you can imagine. Christopher Newsome tied up, shot in
1:17
Speaker 1: the back of the head, dragged to a railway track,
1:20
Speaker 1: and set on fire after a rape his girlfriend, twenty
1:26
Speaker 1: one year old University of Tennessee student Shannon. Her fate
1:31
Speaker 1: even more horrific. Her death comes after hours of torture
1:39
Speaker 1: in which she was raped and tortured with a broken chair,
1:46
Speaker 1: leg beaten bleach poured down her throat, and over her
1:53
Speaker 1: bleeding body in an attempt to cover up evidence of rape.
1:59
Speaker 1: All this occurred while she is alive. She's tied up
2:04
Speaker 1: with curtains in a plastic bag put over her face.
2:10
Speaker 1: According to the autopsy, she was suffocated to death. Nancy Grace,
2:15
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, thank you for being with us. Straight out
2:18
Speaker 1: to Pamela, her Crime Stories investigative reporter. In the last hours,
2:25
Speaker 1: someone has appeared in court. I want the truth of
2:29
Speaker 1: what happened that night, and I want all murderers brought
2:33
Speaker 1: to justice in this case. Pam please start at the beginning.
2:39
Speaker 1: What happened. I'm looking at photos of Shannon Christian right
2:42
Speaker 1: now and her boyfriend, Christopher Newsome. They're so happy, they're
2:46
Speaker 1: so young, they're so in love. Start at the beginning, Pamela.
2:52
Speaker 1: What happened while out on a date. Chris Newsome and
2:56
Speaker 1: Shannon Christian were carjacked from an apartment complex by Lamaricus
3:01
Speaker 1: Davidson and Latalvis Cobbins, their two brothers, and they had
3:04
Speaker 1: their buddy, Eric Boyd with them. The car jacking apparently
3:08
Speaker 1: turned immediately into a kidnapping because another vehicle came up
3:12
Speaker 1: on them in the parking lot. Their headlights shone into
3:16
Speaker 1: the car, and these guys freaked out. They didn't know
3:20
Speaker 1: what to do, so they decided to throw the young
3:22
Speaker 1: couple back into the car and they drove to a
3:26
Speaker 1: house nearby that the two brothers were renting. It was
3:29
Speaker 1: on Chipman Street in Knoxville. And this is where the
3:32
Speaker 1: real nightmare begins. Take a listen now to what the
3:36
Speaker 1: victims parents understand happened the night their children were murdered.
3:42
Speaker 1: The phone run that night and he spoke to spoke
3:45
Speaker 1: to her on the phone. She called to check in
3:49
Speaker 1: to let us know that she was coming home rather
3:51
Speaker 1: than um standing cares that night. And I sat up
3:58
Speaker 1: and she never came home. We had not seen him
4:02
Speaker 1: since Saturday night, which that's that's not unusual. He was
4:06
Speaker 1: twenty three years old and he kind of came and went,
4:10
Speaker 1: you know, with not a whole lot of restrictions at
4:13
Speaker 1: that age. And the way we discovered he was missing
4:18
Speaker 1: was challenge. Mother Dina called and said it Shannon didn't
4:23
Speaker 1: show up for work. I got a phone call and
4:27
Speaker 1: it said man that that there's something going on up
4:32
Speaker 1: here at this house by the trash place. And then
4:38
Speaker 1: I got another call that said that he that they
4:44
Speaker 1: thought that they had found her because or somebody, because
4:49
Speaker 1: they were bringing in there was an ambulance that he
4:52
Speaker 1: just got in there. Detective Snoderly says, it's Chris, and
4:58
Speaker 1: we asked, how do you know? And should I recognized
5:01
Speaker 1: him by his eyes? Everything fell apart at that moment.
5:07
Speaker 1: This is what we know. Um. Chris was a talented carpenter,
5:12
Speaker 1: a former baseball player and college senior. Shannon had gone
5:18
Speaker 1: to a friend's home after a date night at a
5:21
Speaker 1: movie and a local restaurant. They were held up at
5:25
Speaker 1: gunpoint in carjacked, forced to drive to an old home
5:30
Speaker 1: in one of Knotsville's toughest neighborhoods, where they were approached
5:36
Speaker 1: by their captors, some of them X cons, and then
5:40
Speaker 1: lived through a nightmare no parent wants to imagine could
5:45
Speaker 1: ever happen to their child, Pamela. Investigators say Newsome, he's
5:50
Speaker 1: the young man. At one point was taken to the
5:54
Speaker 1: railroad tracks near the house. He was made to walk
5:57
Speaker 1: their barefoot. They'd beaten him up quite a bit before
6:00
Speaker 1: this happened, but they made him walk barefoot. He was
6:03
Speaker 1: then raped, bound, gagged, shot three times. One of those
6:09
Speaker 1: shots in the head execution style. He was then wrapped
6:13
Speaker 1: with some sort of comforter, doused with gasoline, and then
6:17
Speaker 1: set on fire. Now, while this was happening, the young girl,
6:20
Speaker 1: Shannon Christian was tied up. She was raped in every
6:25
Speaker 1: way imaginable. Evidence shows at some point she was savagely
6:29
Speaker 1: beaten in her vaginal area. This young girl had also
6:32
Speaker 1: suffered blows to the head at one point dragged into
6:36
Speaker 1: the living room of the house, and, in what investigators
6:40
Speaker 1: say was an attempt to destroy d NA bleach, was
6:43
Speaker 1: sprayed down her throat. We're also told she was later
6:47
Speaker 1: hog tied, and while she was still alive, her body
6:51
Speaker 1: was encased in black garbage bags, and then her head
6:54
Speaker 1: was wrapped with a plastic grocery bag. She was then
6:58
Speaker 1: stuffed into a garbage can, left to die slowly in
7:02
Speaker 1: pain suffocating. These two did not die quickly, y'all. It
7:07
Speaker 1: was a very, very savage way for both of these
7:10
Speaker 1: young people to go. I want you to listen to
7:13
Speaker 1: Shannon's dad describing the kidnapped. Do you know how quick
7:22
Speaker 1: to Shannon and Chris at that chart car jack and
7:27
Speaker 1: went down boom, You come down your stairs and you
7:34
Speaker 1: go get in the car. And you are cranking your
7:38
Speaker 1: car and your boyfriend gets inside the door. They're gonna
7:41
Speaker 1: get him a little sugar boom, there's a gun in
7:45
Speaker 1: the back of your head, and some big sucker gets
7:48
Speaker 1: in your forerunner and puts a gun on you, just
7:51
Speaker 1: like it's done. Pamela for a Crime Stories investigative reporter.
7:56
Speaker 1: One of the alleged murderers has just been in court.
8:01
Speaker 1: How has he brought in, Pamela. Five people were convicted
8:04
Speaker 1: in the murders of these two young people. Let's start
8:07
Speaker 1: with what investigators called the ringleader, Americus Davidson. He was
8:12
Speaker 1: found guilty on all counts and sentenced to death. We
8:15
Speaker 1: do have the death penalty still here in the state
8:17
Speaker 1: of Tennessee, and he was indeed sentenced to death. His brother,
8:21
Speaker 1: la Talbis Cobbins was guilt, found guilty of murder and
8:25
Speaker 1: facilitation of murder. He was sentenced to life in prison
8:29
Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole. Another man who was involved
8:33
Speaker 1: in all of this, George Thomas, guilty on all counts,
8:38
Speaker 1: sentenced to life without parole originally, but later he was
8:43
Speaker 1: granted a retrial and he was convicted on almost all
8:47
Speaker 1: of the same charges, but this time sentenced to life
8:51
Speaker 1: with the possibility of parole after fifty one years. But
8:55
Speaker 1: nessa Coleman, she's the only female involved in this case.
9:00
Speaker 1: She was found guilty of facilitation of Christians murder, kidnapping
9:04
Speaker 1: and rape, sentenced to fifty three years in prison originally,
9:09
Speaker 1: but was later retried and convicted on lesser charges and
9:12
Speaker 1: sentenced to three years. That brings us to Eric Boyd. Now,
9:16
Speaker 1: at first he was only convicted of hiding Davidson after
9:20
Speaker 1: the slaying. Right, he was hiding the ringleader Lamericus Davidson
9:25
Speaker 1: uh and didn't bring him to authorities who were looking
9:29
Speaker 1: for him. So at this point he was sentenced to
9:31
Speaker 1: eighteen years in prison. But now eleven years later, prosecutors
9:36
Speaker 1: believe they have enough to charge him with murder. Well,
9:40
Speaker 1: this is what I don't understand. To Ashley Wilcott joining me,
9:43
Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot com, juvenile judge and lawyer, Ashley,
9:48
Speaker 1: it seems to me that one of the other killers
9:51
Speaker 1: these two young people murder after horrific torture. We're both
9:56
Speaker 1: the man and the woman the young girl were raped
10:01
Speaker 1: and then tortured and murdered. It seems to me that
10:05
Speaker 1: one of the others would have given state's evidence against
10:09
Speaker 1: the last one. No, right, I would think so too.
10:12
Speaker 1: I don't know why not, And it does beg the
10:13
Speaker 1: question for me. Did the state not give any kind
10:16
Speaker 1: of deal, any kind of something to try to get
10:18
Speaker 1: them to do that? I'm surprised as well, you know,
10:20
Speaker 1: to Karen Stork, renowned psychologists joining us out of New York. Karen,
10:25
Speaker 1: the pack mentality when people get together, and here you've
10:31
Speaker 1: got a bunch of ex cons number one. But when
10:33
Speaker 1: people get together, they do things they would not normally
10:36
Speaker 1: do on their own. And I believe that's how these
10:39
Speaker 1: two young people, Shannon Christian just twenty one and boyfriend
10:44
Speaker 1: Christopher Christopher Newsome were murdered. That's that's correct, Nancy. Pack
10:49
Speaker 1: mentality is the right way to describe it. You find
10:52
Speaker 1: that people will be more likely to commit a crime,
10:56
Speaker 1: go along with what the rest of the pack is doing,
11:01
Speaker 1: and become highly influenced by the behavior of those around them.
11:06
Speaker 1: So and especially if one of the people that's in
11:09
Speaker 1: charge of this group where has a health personality, um
11:14
Speaker 1: seems to be approving it, and you know, okaying the
11:18
Speaker 1: fact that they can do this, well, another thing that
11:22
Speaker 1: is really disturbing. To top it all off, is there
11:26
Speaker 1: is a female involved in this horrific double murder. A female,
11:33
Speaker 1: Vanessa Coleman is involved as well to Pamela for a
11:37
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter. How why is a woman involved
11:42
Speaker 1: with a bunch of ex cons who car jack, sodomize, rape,
11:48
Speaker 1: torture this young couple who all they did was go
11:50
Speaker 1: out to a movie that night. How does she get
11:53
Speaker 1: into evolved involved in this? She was at the house
11:56
Speaker 1: and investigators believe she's the one that raped young Channon
12:02
Speaker 1: Christian with objects and also beat her pretty savagely in
12:07
Speaker 1: her vaginal area. So this was a brutal thing this
12:10
Speaker 1: woman did to another woman, but again was later retried,
12:13
Speaker 1: convicted on lesser charges, and sentenced to thirty five years
12:16
Speaker 1: in prison. Four males, one female first arrested and in
12:20
Speaker 1: the last hours another purpose brought into court on rape, theft, kidnapping, robbery,
12:30
Speaker 1: capital murder, and carjack. And you know, fifty years isn't enough.
12:34
Speaker 1: This is a death penalty case. We also know four
12:39
Speaker 1: of them had multiple prior felony convictions. Now what what
12:45
Speaker 1: I don't understand is how one of them walked away
12:48
Speaker 1: with just time behind bars. Everybody, all of them should
12:53
Speaker 1: stew in the same pot together with the death penalty.
12:56
Speaker 1: Prosecutors say they didn't have enough evidence against Boyd at all,
13:00
Speaker 1: and what they did have was circumstantial, so they decided
13:04
Speaker 1: to go after him for what they believed could actually
13:06
Speaker 1: bring a conviction. So what's changed, To be honest, we
13:10
Speaker 1: really don't know. Prosecutors aren't saying much at all, but
13:13
Speaker 1: we do know technology has gotten better in the last
13:16
Speaker 1: eleven years, so perhaps DNA evidence. He's being charged with
13:21
Speaker 1: thirty six counts. They include first degree murder, felony murder,
13:25
Speaker 1: especially aggravated robbery, especially aggravated kidnapping, and aggravated rape. And
13:31
Speaker 1: in the state of Tennessee, he could get the death penalty.
13:34
Speaker 1: Prosecutors are not saying yet if they're going to go
13:37
Speaker 1: for it, but they could take a listen now to
13:40
Speaker 1: the victim's parents, anybody that knew Chris was his friend,
13:45
Speaker 1: and and he had a smile that everybody just loved.
13:50
Speaker 1: She was a typical girl. I mean, she wasn't perfect,
13:52
Speaker 1: nobody's perfect, but she was never gave us any trouble,
13:56
Speaker 1: always did well in school. She was beautiful. But what
13:59
Speaker 1: made or even more beautiful was the fact that she
14:02
Speaker 1: was not stuck on herself. Two weeks before this happened.
14:06
Speaker 1: Chris had that motorcycle at the time, and he loved it.
14:10
Speaker 1: He wrote it all the time, and we were always
14:12
Speaker 1: afraid for him when he rode the motorcycle. We didn't
14:15
Speaker 1: want anything to happen, and he knew that we were
14:18
Speaker 1: scared about him writing it. And he called me one
14:21
Speaker 1: afternoon and said, Mom, I've sold my bike and I
14:23
Speaker 1: said you have, Chris. I said why did you do that?
14:26
Speaker 1: And he said, because I want a life. And that
14:29
Speaker 1: just haunts me now that he said that. In two
14:32
Speaker 1: weeks later, here he is dead. It just haunts me.
14:36
Speaker 1: They raped him, they tortured him, they beat him, then
14:41
Speaker 1: they killed him. It's not a normal murder. Christian and
14:47
Speaker 1: shannonon leaving together that January evening when they were carjacked, kidnapped, sodomized,
14:56
Speaker 1: raped and murdered. The purps pouring bleach across Shannon's body
15:01
Speaker 1: to hide evidence of rape. Police recover an envelope from
15:06
Speaker 1: the vehicle that yielded a fingerprint, a fingerprint that led
15:11
Speaker 1: them to one of the killers. Just two blocks away
15:16
Speaker 1: from Christian's car one body. Newsom's body discovered near a
15:22
Speaker 1: set of railroad tracks. He had been bound, blindfolded, gagged, stripped,
15:28
Speaker 1: naked from the waist down and shot in the back
15:31
Speaker 1: of the head. And only now are we learning the
15:37
Speaker 1: final perpetrator being brought to justice two and Bremner, high
15:44
Speaker 1: profile Seattle lawyer, joining me, what took so long? And well,
15:50
Speaker 1: of course we did have retrials in this case. But
15:53
Speaker 1: when we look at Eric Boyd, he he was convicted
15:56
Speaker 1: of accessory after the fact or rendering criminal system, which
16:00
Speaker 1: is not as serious, of course as aggravated first degree murder.
16:04
Speaker 1: And it looks like they were looking for evidence for
16:06
Speaker 1: quite some time to basically take that time of his
16:09
Speaker 1: participation back from just before the murders in any way,
16:12
Speaker 1: because as you know, you're in for a time, you're
16:14
Speaker 1: in for a dollar, and that would make him complicit
16:17
Speaker 1: as a principal for murder one under felony murder, which
16:20
Speaker 1: was one of the indictments, or as being a direct participant.
16:24
Speaker 1: Prosecutors certainly are will be working very very hard to
16:27
Speaker 1: make sure they get this one right. There were two
16:31
Speaker 1: of those convicted in the murders in this case, their
16:34
Speaker 1: trials or their convictions were overturned. It didn't have anything
16:38
Speaker 1: to do with the prosecution the judges. The judge in
16:41
Speaker 1: those cases actually was involved in some sort of pill
16:44
Speaker 1: scandal and so their convictions were overturned. In the middle
16:48
Speaker 1: of all of that, they were retried. The good news
16:51
Speaker 1: is they were convicted, but they don't want to get
16:54
Speaker 1: anything wrong. In this case with Eric Boyd, he was convicted,
16:57
Speaker 1: sentenced to eighteen years, but not or murder, and not
17:01
Speaker 1: for aggravated rape, but harboring the ringleader in this case.
17:05
Speaker 1: So this is a big, deep thing. Else had to
17:06
Speaker 1: come up. They had to be working on this for
17:08
Speaker 1: a long time. They got four of them. One of
17:10
Speaker 1: them got the death penalty. But in this instance he
17:13
Speaker 1: was going to be paroled in two thousand and twenty two,
17:16
Speaker 1: and time was of the essence really to get him
17:18
Speaker 1: back in. So I'm very anxious to see what they have. Well,
17:20
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I think they've got. His own
17:23
Speaker 1: words apparently are going to be used against him. To
17:27
Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, a private investigator, When will anybody learn, actually
17:31
Speaker 1: I hope they don't that they're jail house phone calls
17:34
Speaker 1: are taped. Vincent. I mean, think back on top mom
17:38
Speaker 1: Casey Anthony and all the hate she spewed on not
17:41
Speaker 1: only tape recorder, but video recorded visits with her parents.
17:45
Speaker 1: Jail house phone calls are recorded, Vincent. Yeah, absolutely, And
17:49
Speaker 1: the good thing about criminals is they're not too smart,
17:52
Speaker 1: even though they believe they are so. Yeah, as long
17:55
Speaker 1: as people talk, then people will find themselves in the
17:59
Speaker 1: exact same situation this guy has found himself in. We
18:03
Speaker 1: have long known the state needed more evidence to finish
18:08
Speaker 1: this case. What is the evidence? Police and prosecutors are
18:13
Speaker 1: being tight lipped, but we have reason to believe that
18:17
Speaker 1: it is recorded jail house conversations. Eric Boy's own words,
18:23
Speaker 1: maybe evidence used against him and the Christian knew some
18:28
Speaker 1: torture slings. And you know what that means. That means
18:32
Speaker 1: to Pamela for a Crime Stories investigative reporter, that somebody
18:36
Speaker 1: has to sit there and listen and listen and listen,
18:40
Speaker 1: combing through jail house audio to find exactly what their
18:46
Speaker 1: lists what they're looking for, Pamper. We've also seen the
18:49
Speaker 1: witness list and what's interesting is this several people from
18:53
Speaker 1: the Blunt County Sheriff's office are on it. Boyd was
18:57
Speaker 1: housed in the Blunt County Jail while he was awaiting
18:59
Speaker 1: his first trial, and he stayed there up until his conviction,
19:02
Speaker 1: so that suggests he may have been talking a lot
19:06
Speaker 1: while Holly was behind bars. There are two BCSO corrections
19:10
Speaker 1: officers and a former BCSO jail investigator on that list,
19:15
Speaker 1: and as you well know, phone conversations are recorded between
19:18
Speaker 1: the incarcerated and anyone on the outside. Only now are
19:22
Speaker 1: we learning the final perpetrator being brought to justice. Boyd
19:28
Speaker 1: has appeared before a judge. He was assigned an attorney
19:32
Speaker 1: to defend him. A tentative trial date has been set
19:34
Speaker 1: for September the tenth, and a status hearing is set
19:37
Speaker 1: for June the six. In fact, the parents of both
19:41
Speaker 1: of these young people were ecstatic when they heard that
19:44
Speaker 1: the prosecutors were going to go after Eric Boyd for
19:47
Speaker 1: actual murder charges, because the parents believed all along that
19:51
Speaker 1: he had a bigger role in their children's murder. In fact,
19:56
Speaker 1: the Knoxville News Sentinel talked to the parents. Take a
19:59
Speaker 1: listen out to the victim's parents speaking out, it's about time.
20:06
Speaker 1: We've been trying to get something done for well, ever
20:12
Speaker 1: since the trials were over. From everything that we've heard
20:18
Speaker 1: through seven trials and everything that we um no from
20:26
Speaker 1: bits and pieces of evidence testimony. UH, it's never been
20:32
Speaker 1: a doubt in our mind that Eric Boyd was at
20:35
Speaker 1: the car jacking. UH. He was one of the ones
20:39
Speaker 1: that got in the forerunner with UH. That Foreshannon and
20:45
Speaker 1: Chris into the forerunner with them. UM. We knew he
20:51
Speaker 1: was guilty, and there was a time when we were
20:57
Speaker 1: in the very beginning we tried to get the federal
21:03
Speaker 1: prosecutors to go for more than what they did when
21:07
Speaker 1: they tried him for accessory after the fact, but they
21:14
Speaker 1: didn't have for the state court. They didn't feel like
21:19
Speaker 1: they had enough. And obviously things have changed, and thirty
21:27
Speaker 1: six counts I think shows that the disc Attorney's office
21:34
Speaker 1: is pretty much convinced that he is guilty. So i'm i'm,
21:42
Speaker 1: i'm personally, we're we're glad that he's finally here, but
21:47
Speaker 1: we wanted to be here and we were kind of
21:52
Speaker 1: Boyd's process. We went through your mind when you first
21:56
Speaker 1: saw them. His presence has changed him out. You look
22:00
Speaker 1: a lot different now than he did before. He he
22:03
Speaker 1: looked a lot tougher before, and now he looks like
22:07
Speaker 1: he's been relaxed, good shape, like he's you know, BOI
22:13
Speaker 1: been arrested and he just looks a lot different. Did
22:17
Speaker 1: you feel any emotions? We do some. I mean, this
22:20
Speaker 1: is the first time in years that you've probably seen
22:21
Speaker 1: him in person, right, it is, But I really didn't
22:25
Speaker 1: feel anything. I just looked at him, but I just
22:29
Speaker 1: really didn't have any emotions. If I had any emotions
22:33
Speaker 1: that I could say, they they would not be anything
22:39
Speaker 1: that's really mentioned the bullet. It was just kind of
22:42
Speaker 1: like dumb glad to see him now in a court
22:49
Speaker 1: room facing a murder chart, because yes, that that is
22:52
Speaker 1: I'm very glad about that. That's where he should have
22:55
Speaker 1: been to begin with. It's been a long time, but
22:58
Speaker 1: it's finally come. What's justice for you? What would you
23:02
Speaker 1: like to see happened to him? Well, I would like
23:04
Speaker 1: to see him guilty. I'd like to see him convicted
23:08
Speaker 1: on all thirty four accounts. That's that's thirty six and
23:13
Speaker 1: that's that's what he should be found on. That would
23:16
Speaker 1: be justice for us. Just the thoughts of another trial
23:20
Speaker 1: having to relive this again. Is this gonna be hard
23:23
Speaker 1: for you? No? No, no, Because I'm this is the
23:26
Speaker 1: one that you matter the most to me. After seven trials,
23:29
Speaker 1: you kind of get used to the environment and that's
23:33
Speaker 1: not going to be any major pain for us. You know. Um,
23:40
Speaker 1: sometimes pain and hurt never goes away. I want you
23:45
Speaker 1: to listen to Shannon's dad. I'd be sent in that
23:48
Speaker 1: chair and she would come I bet a thousand times,
23:57
Speaker 1: and slide right over the arm of that chair, m
24:01
Speaker 1: and setting my lap. She was a tall, long legg
24:07
Speaker 1: at her feet still dragging the ground, but she would
24:11
Speaker 1: set in my lap, put her arm around me and
24:15
Speaker 1: look at me a certain way, daddy, and I would
24:23
Speaker 1: get this feeling that would come over me, like this
24:29
Speaker 1: is gonna cost me. If I sit down in that
24:36
Speaker 1: chair and shut my eyes, I can feel her do it,
24:54
Speaker 1: and it sure feels good. And when I opened them,
25:06
Speaker 1: I got arrage in me. You wouldn't believe I hate
25:18
Speaker 1: in me. That ain't normal. We still yet have to
25:29
Speaker 1: deal with it on our own, and that is something
25:33
Speaker 1: like where we faced day to day. We can't bring
25:38
Speaker 1: her back. These two just one minding their own business,
25:44
Speaker 1: going out to dinner in a movie carjacked, brutally tortured
25:49
Speaker 1: and murdered. It's taken years, but remember justice never sleeps.
25:59
Speaker 1: A mother of three is arrested after feeding her baby daughter,
26:05
Speaker 1: according to police, mac and cheese made with marijuana. What
26:14
Speaker 1: Alan do? What happened? It was dinner time in this
26:18
Speaker 1: Arizona home where this uh mom had cooked up a
26:21
Speaker 1: special dish for her husband, Elena Marie Lampert. She's twenty
26:25
Speaker 1: five years old in Tempe. She made some mac and
26:29
Speaker 1: cheese and her husband decided to share it with little
26:32
Speaker 1: the little twenty one month old daughter. There was a
26:36
Speaker 1: problem with that, though, and they noticed it quickly when
26:39
Speaker 1: the child started acting strangely. Turned out that ms Limpert
26:44
Speaker 1: had used t HC butter. That's a chemical that comes
26:49
Speaker 1: out of marijuana in the mac and cheese, and so
26:52
Speaker 1: their young daughter was high. I mean, hold on with me,
26:56
Speaker 1: renowned guest Dr Maroney, Medical examiner, Dr Maroney, I I'm
27:04
Speaker 1: overwhelmed that a twenty one month old child, this Arizona
27:09
Speaker 1: mom behind bars after her child just twenty one months old,
27:16
Speaker 1: has mac and cheese. I mean, Dr Maroney, My children
27:20
Speaker 1: would eat mac and cheese for every meal, that eat
27:24
Speaker 1: it in their sleep if I would let them. They're
27:27
Speaker 1: like addicts. All kids love mac and cheese. But I
27:31
Speaker 1: don't make it with th HC. Dr Maroney, what is
27:36
Speaker 1: mac and cheese? For those of you just joining us
27:38
Speaker 1: with us, Dr William Maroney. Dr Maroney, what is th HC?
27:43
Speaker 1: HC is tetra hydrocannabinol. It's a chemical that's produced inside
27:50
Speaker 1: the cannabis plant. That's why it's called the cannabinol. There's
27:54
Speaker 1: a fifty or sixty different chemicals that are produced, but
27:58
Speaker 1: it's considered to be the act div psychotropic. It has
28:03
Speaker 1: brain UH stimulating activities, and in twenty one month old
28:10
Speaker 1: children it can cause high blood pressure, sleeping, cachacardia delusions,
28:19
Speaker 1: and this child right after eating it should have gone
28:26
Speaker 1: to the emergency room for monitoring and maybe a pediatric
28:30
Speaker 1: I see you. This is the problem when we introduce
28:35
Speaker 1: cannabis ambiguously into the society and cannabis products. When you're
28:42
Speaker 1: saying cannabis marijuana, yes, any time you take a part
28:46
Speaker 1: of a marijuana plants and you break it down into
28:51
Speaker 1: the chemicals that HC. Cannabis can refer to the flowers,
28:56
Speaker 1: that can refer to the leaves, It can or to extracts,
29:02
Speaker 1: but in all those the active drug is captura hydrocannabinol.
29:09
Speaker 1: And there's no place that's like giving opium to one
29:13
Speaker 1: month old, that's like giving vodka to one month The
29:17
Speaker 1: untoward consequences are outrageous. And you have the duality of
29:26
Speaker 1: ambiguous cannabis policy that you can sell tetra hydrocannabinol in
29:31
Speaker 1: butter and once you get into the home, there's no
29:34
Speaker 1: control out on what happens to it. That's the problem
29:39
Speaker 1: with I mean, didn't you see this coming when marijuana
29:42
Speaker 1: was legalized in two thousand and eight, when they said, okay,
29:47
Speaker 1: we can do this, will make it medical. But then
29:50
Speaker 1: none of the containers that medical uh cannabis, medical marijuana
29:56
Speaker 1: was sold in, none of more child proof. So I'm
30:01
Speaker 1: just sick because when you're saying with me is now
30:05
Speaker 1: medical examiner Dr William Moroney, author of a brand new book,
30:09
Speaker 1: American Narcan that you can see on Amazon, Dr Maroney.
30:14
Speaker 1: When I think of a twenty one month old child
30:19
Speaker 1: having delusions, I mean, this is not a very good comparison.
30:22
Speaker 1: But I remember when I gave my beloved pet cat Nip.
30:28
Speaker 1: Coco was so afraid he ran under the bed and hid.
30:33
Speaker 1: He had these wild eyes. He was afraid of everything.
30:38
Speaker 1: And this is a cat that was an attack cat.
30:40
Speaker 1: He would attack grown guys. Okay, he was out of
30:44
Speaker 1: his mind. I felt so bad because it was my fault. Here,
30:48
Speaker 1: this is a baby, a twenty one month old baby
30:52
Speaker 1: girl who is suffering delusions from pot and possible tachocardia.
31:01
Speaker 1: What is tachycardia? The early effects of th HC in
31:07
Speaker 1: naive patients adults and children and babies would be an
31:12
Speaker 1: elevation and heart rate fast bamam or elevation and blood
31:17
Speaker 1: pressure that's not good. And then long term exposure the
31:23
Speaker 1: same time later it slows the heart down and makes
31:27
Speaker 1: it more difficult and puts them asleep. Cannabis toxicity in
31:33
Speaker 1: the e er. When people come in with cannabis toxic events,
31:39
Speaker 1: if it's slowed them down, it makes their muscles flaccid
31:43
Speaker 1: and it's difficult for them to breathe. And this would
31:46
Speaker 1: happen in a baby. Maybe even intubation that's where they
31:52
Speaker 1: put you up to a ventilator because he can't breathe
31:54
Speaker 1: anymore because of the effects of the fun intubation you mean,
31:58
Speaker 1: wait a minute, incubations when they stick u tube down
32:01
Speaker 1: your throat. Term effects of that naive exposure to cannabis
32:06
Speaker 1: and a baby, it's gonna stop breathing. But that's not
32:09
Speaker 1: the end of it, joining me Dr Brian Russell, in
32:12
Speaker 1: addition to Dr William Moroney, author of American Narcan, Dr
32:17
Speaker 1: Brian Russell, host of the hit show Fatal Vows On investigation, discovery,
32:23
Speaker 1: psychologist and lawyer Dr Brian Russell, That's so not the
32:26
Speaker 1: end of it, because as a little twenty one month
32:29
Speaker 1: old baby girl is having delusions from pot marijuana. Her
32:35
Speaker 1: mom Feder and her mac and cheese. Mommy sees the
32:38
Speaker 1: little girl freaking out and having delusions, and instead of
32:43
Speaker 1: rushing go to the hospital, the mother starts laughing. Elaina
32:49
Speaker 1: Marie Limpert, I mean, last night Lucy Santa Claus and
32:54
Speaker 1: his wisdom brought her a balance beam and a bunch
32:57
Speaker 1: of gymnastics stuff which is still sitting in the middle
32:59
Speaker 1: of the den floor for her to play with. She
33:03
Speaker 1: fell on it last night. I mean, it wasn't serious,
33:07
Speaker 1: but I couldn't run over there fast enough and then
33:10
Speaker 1: try to pretend to help her walk her back to
33:12
Speaker 1: the sofa like she's really hurt. But I was afraid
33:15
Speaker 1: maybe she's skinned her knee. All right, and my son
33:19
Speaker 1: had soccer yesterday, Dot Russell. He came. When I got
33:22
Speaker 1: him home, I looked at his leg. It was covered
33:24
Speaker 1: with like burns from the grass. We immediately cleaned it
33:29
Speaker 1: and put back teine all over it. Dr Brian Russell.
33:33
Speaker 1: They started laughing, the mother and the father started laughing
33:38
Speaker 1: at the little girl. Yeah. I mean, as if it
33:40
Speaker 1: weren't irresponsible and and negligent enough to let a situation
33:47
Speaker 1: happen in that household allegedly where the kid got access
33:52
Speaker 1: to uh marijuana. Here we now have the parents finding
33:57
Speaker 1: out about it and allegedly not even uh not even
34:01
Speaker 1: being concerned, not taking the kid to the emergency room,
34:04
Speaker 1: as Dr Maroney said, would have been the responsible thing
34:08
Speaker 1: to do, but but actually thinking it was funny to
34:12
Speaker 1: see the effects of marijuana intoxication on this little little kid.
34:16
Speaker 1: And this is the problem that I always point out
34:19
Speaker 1: to the marijuana legalization crowd. You know, I don't care
34:24
Speaker 1: if an adult wants to uh, you know, uh fry
34:28
Speaker 1: their mind on whatever in their privacy of their own home. Uh.
34:32
Speaker 1: It would be fine with me if there were no
34:35
Speaker 1: way for that behavior to end up affecting the rest
34:38
Speaker 1: of us. But that's always the problem. And if you
34:40
Speaker 1: ask one of these legalization activists, Well, in exchange for
34:45
Speaker 1: the freedom to use this that you say you wanted
34:48
Speaker 1: the freedom to do, are you willing to agree that
34:51
Speaker 1: if you ever use it in such a way that
34:54
Speaker 1: it gets around a child, or you ever use it
34:57
Speaker 1: when you're supposed to be parenting a child, or you
35:00
Speaker 1: ever end up on the road intoxicated on it, you've
35:03
Speaker 1: got a mandatory minimum five years behind bars. They say no,
35:08
Speaker 1: they want the freedom without the responsibility, and that we
35:12
Speaker 1: can't hear. Okay, Dr Brian Russell, I know you. You
35:15
Speaker 1: think you've seen it all. That's what I always think too.
35:19
Speaker 1: After all the cases I prosecuted, all the bad guys
35:22
Speaker 1: they put in jail, all the cases I cover, I think, well,
35:24
Speaker 1: I've seen it all. Well, here's a shock you haven't.
35:29
Speaker 1: Not only did they start laughing at the twenty one
35:31
Speaker 1: month old baby girl tripping thanks to mommy feeding her
35:35
Speaker 1: potner mac and cheese. Dr Brian Russell, I hope you
35:38
Speaker 1: are sitting down. They then take her outside and throw
35:44
Speaker 1: her in a pool to quote shock her out of
35:49
Speaker 1: the high A twenty one month old baby then put
35:55
Speaker 1: in the backyard pool the cold water. They say, too, nowker,
36:01
Speaker 1: Dr Russell, help me out well, I mean, these people
36:05
Speaker 1: need to be tarred and feathered, the mother and the father.
36:08
Speaker 1: And why isn't the dad behind mars? Why is just
36:10
Speaker 1: the mom arrested? But let me start with the pool.
36:13
Speaker 1: Dr Russell, that's a great question. Why they're not both
36:16
Speaker 1: arrested and and the pool that the idea that they're uh,
36:21
Speaker 1: their concern allegedly for this kid was so little that
36:27
Speaker 1: they thought that, well, maybe we'll splash some cold water
36:30
Speaker 1: from the pool on the child and and that will
36:34
Speaker 1: be the extent of our our treatment for this intoxication
36:40
Speaker 1: that we've allowed to happen in the house. Is enough
36:43
Speaker 1: for me, as somebody who's been an expert in child
36:47
Speaker 1: custody cases, to say, I wouldn't be comfortable with that
36:51
Speaker 1: child ever going back to that household with these two,
36:56
Speaker 1: I agree with you, Dr Brian Russell. UH. Dr William Moroney,
37:01
Speaker 1: renowned medical examiner, author of a new book American Narkan.
37:05
Speaker 1: Dr Maroney. Apparently the Department Child Safety in Arizona feels
37:10
Speaker 1: the same way because they have removed her other children
37:13
Speaker 1: and she's in court whining and carrying on. Take a
37:17
Speaker 1: listen to the mom here. She is in court and
37:22
Speaker 1: she breaks down and starts crying. She's a temper Arizona
37:25
Speaker 1: mom who allegedly makes marijuana mac and cheese Atlanta Marie
37:30
Speaker 1: Limpert and feeds it to her twenty one month old
37:33
Speaker 1: little girl. Listen, state your name and data birth Elanta
37:37
Speaker 1: Murray Lampert. Okay, you're here on a superior court in
37:42
Speaker 1: new case a legend one count of child abuse, Class
37:45
Speaker 1: four felony. I've appointed a lawyer to represent you. Your
37:50
Speaker 1: next hearing will be a status conference on April nine,
37:53
Speaker 1: eight thirty. I am going to release you to pre
37:56
Speaker 1: trial services with drug testing and monitoring and on an
38:00
Speaker 1: ankle monitor. And you will have a number of conditions
38:05
Speaker 1: including you will have to have times you're leaving of
38:11
Speaker 1: the house will be restricted by the hours set or
38:16
Speaker 1: approved by your pre trial officers. You will have no
38:19
Speaker 1: contact with any children mine or children mine any of
38:24
Speaker 1: your children. You will not have any contact with any miners,
38:29
Speaker 1: including the alleged victim. Okay, and um, no contact with
38:37
Speaker 1: the if you have any code defendant on this case, Adant. Sorry,
38:43
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're the alleged father has been
38:46
Speaker 1: charged or not. If he has not, then you can
38:49
Speaker 1: have contact, but you will not have any contact with
38:52
Speaker 1: any miners. He has not been charged during all Right,
38:57
Speaker 1: another thing to Dr William but Moreau me the father
39:02
Speaker 1: allegedly didn't know about the THHC until after the little
39:06
Speaker 1: girl ate it. But I don't care because while the
39:10
Speaker 1: little girl is a he knows it's in the house
39:14
Speaker 1: number one. Because this woman, the mother, his wife, she is,
39:19
Speaker 1: let me just say, a marijuana enthusiast. She is listed
39:24
Speaker 1: as a CEO at Marijuana Demographic and has images with
39:29
Speaker 1: marijuana paraphernalia on all of her social media. In the
39:34
Speaker 1: home there are two marijuana grow tents, twenty plants, mushrooms, bongs, pipes,
39:41
Speaker 1: hash oil, and the fridge there are three large tubs
39:45
Speaker 1: of th HC butter. So she breaks down and chriest
39:48
Speaker 1: at the court appearance. But long story short, what about
39:54
Speaker 1: the dad Because when the little girl, the twenty one
39:56
Speaker 1: month old Todd starts tripping, he starts laughing. But your
40:01
Speaker 1: in the cold water in the backyard. Why why isn't
40:03
Speaker 1: he behind bars? Here's what I would say. He didn't
40:07
Speaker 1: prepare the butter, he didn't prepare the meal, and he
40:13
Speaker 1: only had access to that knowledge after. Here's the hard
40:19
Speaker 1: part about this They recognized that there was something wrong
40:25
Speaker 1: because they went to the pool, but they didn't have
40:30
Speaker 1: enough concern to bring it to somebody's attention medically. So
40:37
Speaker 1: you can't say that they didn't know because they recognized
40:41
Speaker 1: they needed something, but they chose a pool instead of
40:45
Speaker 1: a best practice medical examina uh and e er and
40:50
Speaker 1: urgent care to bring it or to call you know,
40:54
Speaker 1: how do you what if there were seizures? What happens
40:57
Speaker 1: if they gave this to a child? Child and a
41:00
Speaker 1: child had caesars? What if there was they stopped breathing?
41:04
Speaker 1: You call? You would call all the time if you
41:09
Speaker 1: couldn't take the child. So, um, there's not a lot
41:14
Speaker 1: of parental support here. This goes way beyond parenting classes.
41:19
Speaker 1: There's ethical and moral debates about how they care for
41:24
Speaker 1: their children. Guys, we were talking about a temper Arizona
41:27
Speaker 1: mother who has marijuana throughout the home, three large tubs
41:32
Speaker 1: of marijuana butter that she used to make mac and cheese.
41:38
Speaker 1: Her daughter twenty one months old, starts tripping, likely delusions,
41:44
Speaker 1: and they put her in the cold water in the
41:47
Speaker 1: outdoor pool. Mom behind bars right now, let me just
41:51
Speaker 1: say a marijuana enthusiast Dr William Moroney, what about the
42:00
Speaker 1: incidents of deaths, um car crashes, other forms of death
42:08
Speaker 1: related to the legalization of marijuana. Where does that stand
42:14
Speaker 1: right now? I can tell you based on um state
42:19
Speaker 1: police studies that we have fift of fatal car crashes
42:27
Speaker 1: our marijuana positive contributing two the fatal crash. This is
42:36
Speaker 1: not a small problem. And as states roll out cannabis
42:43
Speaker 1: rights and cannabis access, that's going to go up because
42:47
Speaker 1: the preceding decade has fed a false dialogue of oh,
42:54
Speaker 1: this is safer than beer. Oh well, this isn't that bad.
42:57
Speaker 1: Oh this doesn't cause no any abstance. It's it's it's
43:03
Speaker 1: never an argument of this is safer than beers, so
43:06
Speaker 1: you can drive. They're both bad. It's it's a false choice.
43:12
Speaker 1: There are not a good and a bad here. There's
43:15
Speaker 1: a bad and a bad. We know that fatal crashes
43:20
Speaker 1: are up in Colorado, but you know what else we
43:22
Speaker 1: know toxic emergency room pediatric exposures are up in Colorado.
43:34
Speaker 1: So they did not think out the access here to
43:39
Speaker 1: give adults access to cannabis and to prevent pediatric exposures,
43:45
Speaker 1: to prevent fatal motor vehicle crashes, they're up and the
43:51
Speaker 1: only reason they got away with the safe dialogue is
43:55
Speaker 1: there wasn't enough time to measure it. When we finish
43:59
Speaker 1: a full decade, people will understand the woe and will
44:04
Speaker 1: have cannabis on the wrong side of fatal motor vehicle crashes.
44:10
Speaker 1: You can't judge that it's safe in one or two years.
44:13
Speaker 1: You have to look for five or six, and we're
44:15
Speaker 1: beginning to see that roll in a fatal car crashes.
44:20
Speaker 1: Our cannabis pozzi in in toxicology, in the autopsy. That's
44:25
Speaker 1: it's a prostination. You know, I I don't understand it.
44:29
Speaker 1: To Dr Brian Russell, host of Investigation Discoveries, Fatal vows,
44:34
Speaker 1: Dr Brian, I know it makes me sound crazy to
44:41
Speaker 1: rail against the legalization of marijuana, but I prosecuted in
44:46
Speaker 1: inner city Atlanta. I saw crime, marijuana related violent crime,
44:54
Speaker 1: and it literally breaks my heart to know that our
45:01
Speaker 1: governments have allowed this to happen. People don't know. They're
45:05
Speaker 1: not expected to know these statistics that Maroney is throwing out,
45:08
Speaker 1: and he's right, they're not expected to have seen what
45:11
Speaker 1: I saw in court. They don't know. They believe, as
45:18
Speaker 1: Dr Maroney said the dialogue, that. Hey, it's like having
45:22
Speaker 1: a couple of beers. Now fatal car crashes, fIF of
45:28
Speaker 1: them related to marijuana. We have really screwed up letting
45:33
Speaker 1: this get legalized. You're right, you don't sound crazy to
45:36
Speaker 1: me at all. In fact, you know, think about alcohol
45:41
Speaker 1: for a minute. We have legal alcohol in this country,
45:44
Speaker 1: and I think that's I don't have a problem with that,
45:47
Speaker 1: because there's a way to enjoy alcohol that is not
45:50
Speaker 1: about getting intoxicated and losing your faculties. Now, Uh, think
45:56
Speaker 1: about the percentage of people you know, at some point
46:01
Speaker 1: in their lives try drinking alcohol. I would say in
46:05
Speaker 1: my life it's close to a hundred. I know just
46:08
Speaker 1: a few people who have never had it, who are
46:09
Speaker 1: adults who have never had a drop of alcohol in
46:11
Speaker 1: their lives. Uh. Now, think about a country in which
46:18
Speaker 1: that same percentage of people end up at some point
46:22
Speaker 1: playing around with marijuana. I don't think I want to
46:27
Speaker 1: live in that country, and I don't think you probably
46:29
Speaker 1: want to live in that country because a substantial percentage
46:32
Speaker 1: of those people will continue to play around with it
46:35
Speaker 1: and other things of a more potent nature. And and
46:41
Speaker 1: there it really is not it's not analogous to alcohol.
46:44
Speaker 1: In the sense that there's not a way, there's no uh,
46:48
Speaker 1: there's no purpose of these substances, no way to enjoy them.
46:52
Speaker 1: That's not about getting intoxicated and blunting, if not completely
46:57
Speaker 1: shutting down your faculties. This is what you know. This
47:00
Speaker 1: temper a Zona mom behind bars right now, crying over
47:06
Speaker 1: being away from her children. Well, I don't want to
47:09
Speaker 1: sound harsh, but the reality is, you keep three tubs
47:12
Speaker 1: of pot butter and your fridge and make mac and
47:16
Speaker 1: cheese out of it, what do you think is going
47:18
Speaker 1: to happen? Nancy Grace Crimes Tories signing off good Bye
47:23
Speaker 1: script