Transcript

Sharri | 20 October · Sharri

0:06
Speaker 1: Yes, and in that breaking news, the man who allegedly
0:09
Speaker 1: attacked Helen Haynes has now been charged. Victorian police have
0:13
Speaker 1: confirmed the charges include dangerous driving causing serious injury, intentionally
0:19
Speaker 1: causing serious injury and the offence of causing harm to
0:23
Speaker 1: a Commonwealth public official. So multiple charges against the Victorian
0:28
Speaker 1: man accused of ramming his car allegedly twice into Helen
0:33
Speaker 1: Haynes yesterday afternoon. That breaking news just coming through. And
0:37
Speaker 1: it comes as Helen Haynes has reportedly lost her leg.
0:41
Speaker 1: She remains in a critical condition tonight after this attack yesterday.
0:46
Speaker 1: And we're learning troubling details about this alleged attacker, who's
0:50
Speaker 1: believed to have repeatedly rammed his car into her while
0:54
Speaker 1: in a drug-addled state. His name is Brendan Nugent, an
0:59
Speaker 1: anti-Israel activist and an environmentalist. His final tweet just a
1:05
Speaker 1: day ago was about Israel. When Penny Wong posted in
1:09
Speaker 1: November 2023 that there was no place for violence, anti-Semitism
1:13
Speaker 1: or Islamophobia in Australia, Nugent replied, Pine Gap helps Israeli
1:19
Speaker 1: intelligence bomb children in Gaza. Australia is not peaceful. And
1:24
Speaker 1: he also wrote to Penny Wong in May 2024 saying,
1:29
Speaker 1: you have not been clear on anything other than giving
1:32
Speaker 1: Israel impunity to kill thousands of children. And he said
1:37
Speaker 1: to Keir Starmer, the only reason Israel bombs innocent people
1:41
Speaker 1: in Rafah is because people like you give them diplomatic
1:44
Speaker 1: cover and military assistance to do it. There are many
1:48
Speaker 1: other posts like it, and hats off to Drew Pavlou
1:52
Speaker 1: for being the first to uncover his identity and his history.
1:58
Speaker 1: But Nugent also shared or retweeted more extreme posts that
2:02
Speaker 1: I'm about to show you now, like this one that says,
2:06
Speaker 1: why I don't condemn Hamas for October 7, 2023. As
2:10
Speaker 1: you can see, he reposted that. And he retweeted this
2:14
Speaker 1: post from October 7, 2023. It says bulldozer operated by
2:20
Speaker 1: Gaza resistance tearing down the Israeli occupation fence erected on
2:24
Speaker 1: the border. And it's got a picture of that image
2:27
Speaker 1: in the tweet. It says literally breaking apart the Israeli
2:32
Speaker 1: created mass prison in the strip. So retweeting a post
2:37
Speaker 1: supporting the attack on Israel, October 7, 2023. Just the
2:43
Speaker 1: last example, he retweeted this post that says, using a
2:46
Speaker 1: fictional anti-Semitism crisis to support a real genocide. And he
2:51
Speaker 1: complained it was one of the most frustrating things happening. Well,
2:55
Speaker 1: are we surprised? That's the question. Are we surprised that
3:00
Speaker 1: an anti-Israel activist is accused of being behind this, given
3:05
Speaker 1: the movement over the past three years? I mean, I'd
3:08
Speaker 1: say it's hardly surprising. and yet prominent Israel critic, Labor
3:13
Speaker 1: MP Ed Husic, today spoke about gender-based violence.
3:16
Speaker 2: 56 women in this country have been killed as a
3:21
Speaker 2: result of gender-based violence. We cannot have women targeted for
3:24
Speaker 2: violence as well. As much as this is a conversation
3:28
Speaker 2: about politics and the nature of politics in this country,
3:31
Speaker 2: it's inescapable that we've got this broader issue where we
3:35
Speaker 2: need to, as a society, be able to focus on
3:39
Speaker 2: these things and say it's simply not good enough And
3:41
Speaker 2: it's simply not good enough that women talk about this.
3:43
Speaker 2: Blokes have got a role to play in calling this
3:46
Speaker 2: out and also taking the temperature down, too, in terms
3:49
Speaker 2: of gender-based violence.
3:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, an interesting take. Now, the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese,
3:56
Speaker 1: last night, in announcing this attack, in the very same statement,
4:01
Speaker 1: urged a calming of political rhetoric. Now, I completely agree
4:05
Speaker 1: with this sentiment, but surely Albanese has to realise that
4:09
Speaker 1: it's only... his ministers and the Greens, who've been inflaming
4:14
Speaker 1: the rhetoric against Israel. It's certainly not the Coalition or
4:18
Speaker 1: One Nation. Their constant obsession with Israel, including even to
4:22
Speaker 1: this day, refusing to accept, for example, Israel's investigation into
4:27
Speaker 1: the death of Australian aid worker Zomi Francom, despite Penny
4:31
Speaker 1: Wong sending her own independent investigator over there to endorse
4:36
Speaker 1: Israel's findings. I mean, this is just one example of
4:40
Speaker 1: of cultivating the anger towards Israel. And activists, we know this,
4:45
Speaker 1: activists can easily become radicalised, angered or obsessed. And Nugent
4:52
Speaker 1: had also tweeted about Zomi Franken, by the way. Yet
4:56
Speaker 1: here's what Albanese has said about the lessons that need
4:59
Speaker 1: to be learnt from this attack on Helen Haynes.
5:03
Speaker 3: We need to turn the heat down. You know, we
5:07
Speaker 3: can have disagreements, politics without personalising it and we all
5:14
Speaker 3: have a role to play in raising the level of
5:19
Speaker 3: political discourse and turning down the personal attacks. Go look
5:25
Speaker 3: up the interviews in which I've done and call for
5:28
Speaker 3: the temperature to be turned down when it comes to
5:32
Speaker 3: political discourse.
5:35
Speaker 1: I mean, this is shocking hypocrisy. It's Albanese's team that
5:39
Speaker 1: has continually criticised Israel, and often it seems more than
5:43
Speaker 1: it has criticised the terror group Hamas. If anyone needs
5:47
Speaker 1: to lower the temperature on this topic, it's the Prime
5:50
Speaker 1: Minister and his team. I mean, Albanese is not a
5:54
Speaker 1: university activist yelling into a microphone anymore. He's meant to
5:58
Speaker 1: be the Prime Minister. I mean, I've been saying for
6:01
Speaker 1: a long time, that Albanese and his ministers are inflaming
6:05
Speaker 1: tensions with their rhetoric. But it turns out it's even
6:08
Speaker 1: worse than this, because journalist Peter van Onselen reported today
6:13
Speaker 1: that Albanese's office recently sent around a dirt unit, a
6:19
Speaker 1: shit sheet, as they call it, against Helen Haynes. But
6:23
Speaker 1: what did Helen do to deserve this? Why did she
6:26
Speaker 1: deserve this treatment from the Prime Minister's office? Well, apparently
6:30
Speaker 1: because she dared to criticise the $ 6 million grant to
6:34
Speaker 1: his golf club. Well, Albanese, if it's true, should apologise
6:40
Speaker 1: for this dirt unit. It's disgraceful. And ASIO Director-General Mike
6:45
Speaker 1: Burgess also warned today that the temperature and trajectory of
6:49
Speaker 1: our security environment is concerning. He said that elevated levels
6:54
Speaker 1: of grievance, intolerance and polarisation continue to create a permissive
6:59
Speaker 1: environment of violence. He said this incident occurred in an
7:03
Speaker 1: environment where politically motivated violence is more likely than previous years.
7:08
Speaker 1: He says, I genuinely believe the temperature of our security
7:11
Speaker 1: environment would be several degrees lower if we recommitted to
7:15
Speaker 1: conversing with civility, debating with respect and disagreeing with restraint.
7:23
Speaker 1: Wise words, and it's true we're living in dangerous times,
7:27
Speaker 1: volatile times even. Just 10 months ago, a massacre unfolded
7:32
Speaker 1: at Bondi Beach in broad daylight. And now a federal
7:36
Speaker 1: MP has been the victim of a dangerous car ramming,
7:40
Speaker 1: allegedly by an activist with mental health issues. Political leadership
7:45
Speaker 1: in this climate is incredibly important, more important than ever.
7:52
Speaker 1: It's not good enough for the Prime Minister to simply
7:55
Speaker 1: stand up there and say the temperature should be lowered.
8:00
Speaker 1: He needs to ensure that his ministers stop inflaming tensions
8:03
Speaker 1: that risk aggravating activists who are not sound of mind.
8:08
Speaker 1: Our leaders have an obligation not just to argue over
8:11
Speaker 1: lowering the temperature, but to actually listen to Burgess and
8:15
Speaker 1: do it. Helen Haynes, a mother of three, a beloved
8:21
Speaker 1: community member and politician, doesn't deserve to be fighting for
8:26
Speaker 1: her life in hospital. Let's go live to Wangaratta now
8:36
Speaker 1: where I'm joined by News 24 Melbourne reporter Jack Nyhoff. Jack,
8:40
Speaker 1: let's start with the attack. Barbershop owner Rick Jeffries has
8:43
Speaker 1: been described rightly as a hero for performing a citizen's
8:47
Speaker 1: arrest on the suspect, now charged. But there is another
8:51
Speaker 1: 20-year-old man we didn't know about called Cody and he helped. Jack,
8:56
Speaker 1: tell us what he did.
9:00
Speaker 4: Shari, it is such an incredible community here in Wangaratta
9:04
Speaker 4: on the main street. Behind me is the office of
9:08
Speaker 4: Helen Haynes, the independent member here for Indi. And just
9:11
Speaker 4: next to it is that barber shop where we saw
9:14
Speaker 4: that hero barber, Ricky Jeffries, run into action. But nearby,
9:19
Speaker 4: there are several other businesses. One of the workers at
9:22
Speaker 4: another business on that afternoon was, of course, Cody, just
9:27
Speaker 4: 20 years old. He heard The noise, that crash of
9:31
Speaker 4: the car and he ran over, he heard a scream
9:34
Speaker 4: and he intervened. He called paramedics to come to the aid.
9:39
Speaker 4: That was before he helped apprehend, of course, Brendan Nugent,
9:43
Speaker 4: the man alleged to be the driver who has been
9:46
Speaker 4: charged by detectives. He remains in custody here at Wangaratta
9:50
Speaker 4: Police Station. He's set to face Wangaratta's magistrate's court tomorrow,
9:54
Speaker 4: charged with A raft of offences, Victoria Police are telling
9:57
Speaker 4: us within the past hour that he's facing charges including
10:00
Speaker 4: dangerous driving, causing serious injury, intentionally causing serious injury and
10:04
Speaker 4: of course the Commonwealth offence of causing harm to a
10:07
Speaker 4: Commonwealth public official that is following a raid on a
10:11
Speaker 4: property on Great Alpine Road about 15 minutes out of Wangaratta.
10:15
Speaker 5: Shari?
10:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, so as you just said there, Jack, this man,
10:19
Speaker 1: Brenda Nugent, will face court tomorrow. Now, this is such
10:23
Speaker 1: a horrific incident. There's been a lot of support on
10:25
Speaker 1: the ground we've seen from locals because she was such
10:30
Speaker 1: a well-liked figure, even among people who may not have
10:33
Speaker 1: voted for her politically.
10:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've really got the sense of just the shock
10:40
Speaker 4: that is echoed through this town, going into the local
10:43
Speaker 4: shops to buy your coffee, You can hear the emotion
10:46
Speaker 4: in people's voices. And all today we've watched this, a
10:49
Speaker 4: lot of flowers, these tributes grow from just a few
10:52
Speaker 4: flowers about 7 a.m. this morning into all these flowers
10:56
Speaker 4: that you can see here and those carrying those flowers
10:58
Speaker 4: and putting them down, often extremely emotional when they do so.
11:02
Speaker 4: We saw one particular woman with a tear down her eye.
11:04
Speaker 4: And this morning there was one man wearing an orange
11:07
Speaker 4: shirt and I asked him why he was here and
11:10
Speaker 4: he said, that this just wasn't right. This is not
11:12
Speaker 4: how I want Wangaratta to be represented, the Wangaratta that
11:16
Speaker 4: he loved. I asked him about the political tension in
11:20
Speaker 4: the country at the moment, and he said, we need
11:22
Speaker 4: to talk to each other. And I asked him who
11:25
Speaker 4: he votes for, and he said he was a One
11:27
Speaker 4: Nation supporter, but despite that, he wanted to be here
11:30
Speaker 4: to show unity, to say that this type of political
11:34
Speaker 4: violence was unacceptable in this country.
11:37
Speaker 6: Wangaratta, this is not us. The majority of people you
11:40
Speaker 6: see here are working people. You see the trade speed vehicles.
11:44
Speaker 6: You see all the businesses here. You see people going
11:46
Speaker 6: to their jobs. We've got to air our grievances. We've
11:48
Speaker 6: got to be able to chat and listen to each other.
11:51
Speaker 6: We don't want to see this happening.
11:55
Speaker 4: Certainly we've spoken to multiple locals here throughout the day
11:59
Speaker 4: and those sentiments have certainly been echoed despite whether people
12:03
Speaker 4: voted for Helen Haynes or not. It really didn't matter today.
12:07
Speaker 4: They said that they absolutely respected the hard work that
12:10
Speaker 4: she did for the local community here in Victoria's northeast.
12:15
Speaker 1: And, Jack, the family of the attacker who's now been charged,
12:19
Speaker 1: they've released a statement, his family. His father, Rod Nugent,
12:23
Speaker 1: and partner, Dr Christine Cunningham, have said, we will be
12:26
Speaker 1: assisting Victoria Police in any way we can. Helen Haynes
12:30
Speaker 1: is a deeply respected, valued and much-loved member of our
12:33
Speaker 1: local community. Helen has been our friend for more than
12:37
Speaker 1: 20 years and what happened to her yesterday is devastating
12:40
Speaker 1: and unfathomable. And you can see Christine pictured here on
12:45
Speaker 1: the right of Helen. They've crossed paths, worked with each
12:49
Speaker 1: other on occasion. So this must have been a terrible,
12:53
Speaker 1: horrible shock, Jack.
12:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. We're learning more throughout the day about Brendan
13:03
Speaker 4: Nugent's background. He was known to police and was known
13:07
Speaker 4: to have several grievances. Now, this is quite the investigation,
13:11
Speaker 4: counter-terror investigation. team has been assembled with the assistance of
13:15
Speaker 4: Australian Federal Police and ACO as well. Victoria Police is
13:19
Speaker 4: taking the lead in this investigation. Now overnight he was
13:22
Speaker 4: held in custody. He wasn't able to be interviewed until
13:24
Speaker 4: he had a mental health assessment and News 24 understands
13:28
Speaker 4: that he has been interviewed. Obviously he has now been
13:31
Speaker 4: charged as that investigation continues. Reports from the Australian that
13:34
Speaker 4: his ex-account was actually under investigation by police and counter
13:39
Speaker 4: terror authorities as well and News24, of course, as you've
13:43
Speaker 4: run through, has identified a number of posts as well
13:46
Speaker 4: that show anti-Israel sentiment. He was an anti-Israel activist and
13:50
Speaker 4: also a radical environmentalist as well. Several comments from Senator
13:55
Speaker 4: Penny Wong's posts on X communicating anti-Israel sentiment. But there's
14:03
Speaker 4: one particular post of Helen Haynes herself that he commented
14:06
Speaker 4: appearing to show support writing that it would have been
14:09
Speaker 4: nice for her to be included on a discussion on
14:12
Speaker 4: a television program about climate change. And it's understood that
14:15
Speaker 4: on some social media platforms, they followed each other. He
14:18
Speaker 4: was also a member of the Save Our Strathbogie Forest
14:22
Speaker 4: group as well. So certainly moving within the same political
14:26
Speaker 4: circles and amongst similar people who would also be supporters
14:30
Speaker 4: of Helen Haynes. And that's what makes this quite interesting
14:34
Speaker 4: as that motive continues to be investigated by authorities.
14:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed. All right, Jack, thank you very much for
14:41
Speaker 1: your time tonight, but also well done reporting on this
14:43
Speaker 1: all day today and particularly interviewing those witnesses. Thank you. OK,
14:49
Speaker 1: we'll come back to this shortly with reaction from Michaelia Cash,
14:53
Speaker 1: Cameron Milner II and Holly Hughes. But first, I want
14:56
Speaker 1: to go to another story that I've been looking into
14:59
Speaker 1: over the past week. And tonight I can reveal Tony Burke,
15:02
Speaker 1: the Home Affairs Minister's close ties with the father of
15:06
Speaker 1: a prominent Islamic presenter whose organisation has been stripped of
15:10
Speaker 1: government funding over offensive content. The Albanese government stopped funding
15:15
Speaker 1: to the One Path Network after Revelations speaker Kamal Saylor
15:20
Speaker 1: had made highly inflammatory comments.
15:24
Speaker 5: In fact, many would argue that there's no moral difference
15:27
Speaker 5: between putting people in gas chambers and burning people alive
15:32
Speaker 5: inside tents. I don't know about you, but I kind
15:35
Speaker 5: of get Nazi vibes. It was all a sham. and
15:38
Speaker 5: the lie came crumbling down. The entire saga and string
15:43
Speaker 5: of attacks were nothing more than the doings of an underworld,
15:47
Speaker 5: organized crime network, trying to mislead the police and manipulate
15:53
Speaker 5: government resources. It had absolutely nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
15:59
Speaker 1: After the Daily Telegraph published this, the $ 308, 000 grant was cancelled.
16:06
Speaker 1: Saylor appeared furious that OnePath's funding had been stripped and
16:09
Speaker 1: he posted this angry video.
16:13
Speaker 5: This is a disgusting, fat lie. The Daily Teletrash just
16:18
Speaker 5: ran a full front page and double page image spread
16:21
Speaker 5: with my face on it, accusing me of being a
16:24
Speaker 5: Jew hater and anti-Semite.
16:27
Speaker 1: So this was a Home Affairs grant, a gain of $ 308, 000. Well,
16:33
Speaker 1: it turns out that Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke has
16:36
Speaker 1: close ties with his father, Choda Saylor, a former Canterbury-Bankstown councillor.
16:43
Speaker 1: And Saylor's own biography states that he served as vice
16:46
Speaker 1: president in Tony Burke's Watson FEC. In May last year,
16:51
Speaker 1: Saylor urged voters... to support Tony Burke and Labor. He
16:57
Speaker 1: shared this photograph of him and Burke, writing in the caption,
17:01
Speaker 1: that Tony stood with us when it mattered most. He
17:06
Speaker 1: also shared on Facebook this image of him campaigning for
17:09
Speaker 1: Labor alongside Burke in 2021. And this image speaking in
17:14
Speaker 1: front of Albanese and Burke during the pandemic in February 2022.
17:19
Speaker 1: And then this image, again from 2022, with Albanese Burke
17:23
Speaker 1: and Jason Clare. He also attended Tony Burke's federal election
17:27
Speaker 1: campaign launch last year at the Punchbowl Community Centre. And
17:32
Speaker 1: when Saylor left his role as councillor, Burke reportedly recorded
17:37
Speaker 1: a video tribute to him. Burke also mentioned Saleh in
17:42
Speaker 1: this radio interview where he supported his move to raise
17:46
Speaker 1: the Palestinian flag. Now, this was just 20 days after
17:51
Speaker 1: the October 7, 2023, Hamas attacks.
17:55
Speaker 7: Canterbury Bankstand Council has voted to raise the Palestinian flag
17:59
Speaker 7: until a ceasefire is declared in Palestine.
18:01
Speaker 2: That's in your electorate.
18:02
Speaker 6: Do you support it?
18:04
Speaker 8: I support the decision completely.
18:05
Speaker 1: Why?
18:06
Speaker 8: When the councillor, Kota Saleh, who's my local councillor, The
18:09
Speaker 8: council had brought forward that resolution and then the mayor,
18:11
Speaker 8: BLL Hayek, supported that resolution, which I might add was
18:15
Speaker 8: supported unanimously. They were truly representing the grief that is
18:20
Speaker 8: in the community. And once again, it is not the
18:22
Speaker 8: Hamas flag that's flying. It's the Palestinian flag.
18:27
Speaker 1: Not even three weeks after the Hamas attacks on Israel.
18:32
Speaker 1: And years before that, Saleh reportedly met with senior Hamas
18:36
Speaker 1: figures on a trip to Gaza.
18:40
Speaker 8: The Australian Prime Minister is still in Gaza.
18:43
Speaker 1: Dr.
18:43
Speaker 8: Ibrahim Abu Mohamed and a few scholars met with the
18:47
Speaker 8: Prime Minister.
18:47
Speaker 4: They were happy to see him in Gaza.
18:49
Speaker 8: We came to learn from Gaza.
18:59
Speaker 1: Now, Salah, Yep, who campaigned for Burke, was reportedly one
19:21
Speaker 1: of 22 Australian Muslim leaders who travelled to the Gaza
19:25
Speaker 1: Strip in 2012 where they met with infamous Hamas leader
19:30
Speaker 1: Ismail Haniyeh. And you can see on your screen footage
19:34
Speaker 1: published by Memory TV of this encounter. Salah is on
19:39
Speaker 1: the far left and Haniyeh is in the centre. Haniyeh,
19:43
Speaker 1: you may recall, was later killed by Israel in that
19:47
Speaker 1: amazing covert operation in Tehran. while he was in bed. Now,
19:52
Speaker 1: I rang Sailor yesterday on the phone. I spoke to him.
19:56
Speaker 1: I asked him whether he had met with Hamas figures
19:58
Speaker 1: during this trip. He didn't deny it. And he said repeatedly, well,
20:03
Speaker 1: send me something in writing. I can reply in writing.
20:07
Speaker 1: I sent questions. But he didn't reply. Well, at the
20:11
Speaker 1: time in 2012, the ABC reported on this delegation meeting
20:16
Speaker 1: with Hamas. And you can see it here in this article.
20:21
Speaker 1: And the ABC report in their copy distinguished the Hamas
20:25
Speaker 1: political leader, Asmail Haniyeh, from the military wing, which they
20:32
Speaker 1: described as a prescribed terrorist organisation. Now, we put questions
20:37
Speaker 1: to Tony Burke about his relationship with Khoda and his
20:41
Speaker 1: son Kamal and whether he was involved in the decision
20:44
Speaker 1: to grant One Path funding. Burke's spokesman said the minister
20:50
Speaker 1: had no involvement in the grant process and has no
20:53
Speaker 1: relationship with Kamal Saylor. No denials, of course, about his
21:00
Speaker 1: relationship with Kamal's father. Outrageously, the $ 300, 000 grant from Burke's
21:07
Speaker 1: Department of Home Affairs claims to be for social cohesion.
21:13
Speaker 1: It says it's to support social cohesion and sustainability of
21:17
Speaker 1: independent multicultural media outlets to realign their business models to
21:22
Speaker 1: digital media practices. Well, it's unclear to me how any
21:27
Speaker 1: of their work that I've seen contributes to social cohesion.
21:32
Speaker 1: One Path, you may recall, interviewed Sneeko, that YouTube influencer,
21:38
Speaker 1: when he was in Australia. And he's got a mix
21:41
Speaker 1: of neo-Nazism and Islamist extremism ideology. Video clips show him
21:46
Speaker 1: chanting jihadist calls for Jews to be killed, and he
21:50
Speaker 1: has repeated Nazi slogans as well. He was already in Australia.
21:55
Speaker 1: He'd done an interview when I exposed his visit. Tony
21:58
Speaker 1: Burke then cancelled his visa and kicked him out of
22:01
Speaker 1: the country. But the greater issue here is that there
22:05
Speaker 1: does appear to be a pattern of Tony Burke's Department
22:09
Speaker 1: of Home Affairs awarding social cohesion grants to organisations promoting
22:15
Speaker 1: extremist content. OK, for more on that now and to
22:23
Speaker 1: speak about Helen Haynes, I'm joined by Shadow Attorney General
22:25
Speaker 1: Michaelia Cash. Great to see you again. Look, on this topic,
22:30
Speaker 1: does there need to be more scrutiny into why Home
22:33
Speaker 1: Affairs is funding organisations promoting extremist content? Absolutely, Shari.
22:40
Speaker 9: And I have a very basic principle. If you're an
22:44
Speaker 9: organisation that promotes anti-Semitism, that promotes hatred, extremism, division, and
22:51
Speaker 9: worse still, undermines Australian values, you shouldn't get a cent
22:57
Speaker 9: of taxpayer funds. I mean, I think all Australians are
23:00
Speaker 9: now asking, how on earth... did such an organisation get
23:04
Speaker 9: a grant of in excess of $ 300, 000? Now, Tony Burke
23:09
Speaker 9: can say what he likes, but he is still the
23:12
Speaker 9: relevant minister and the buck stops with him. And there
23:16
Speaker 9: are serious questions to be answered. I mean, were these
23:20
Speaker 9: political ties known by the department when the grant was
23:24
Speaker 9: handed out? who in God's name gave the grant and
23:27
Speaker 9: what checks were actually undertaken in relation to the organisation,
23:33
Speaker 9: when a basic Google search can actually show up the
23:36
Speaker 9: information you've referred to. But I think more broadly you
23:40
Speaker 9: are right. The question that the Australian taxpayer now needs
23:43
Speaker 9: to be asking is how many more grants have been
23:47
Speaker 9: given to to organisations that sit squarely within Tony Burke's
23:53
Speaker 9: own department that sadly undermine Australian values. It's simply not
24:00
Speaker 9: good enough. And Tony Burke can deny it all he likes,
24:04
Speaker 9: but there are serious questions to answer.
24:06
Speaker 1: I mean, he denied having any involvement with this particular grant,
24:10
Speaker 1: but he didn't deny his close friends links his friendship
24:15
Speaker 1: with the father. I mean, he couldn't deny that. You know,
24:18
Speaker 1: they've been seen campaigning together on multiple occasions. Do you
24:21
Speaker 1: think there needs to be a bit more transparency from
24:24
Speaker 1: the minister about who signed off on this grant in particular?
24:28
Speaker 9: Absolutely.
24:29
Speaker 1: Given the family connection. Correct.
24:32
Speaker 9: No, there absolutely does. But more broadly, the fact that
24:37
Speaker 9: taxpayer money is being given by Tony Burke's department or
24:42
Speaker 9: being awarded by Tony Burke's department to organisations that have
24:47
Speaker 9: promoted anti-Semitism, I mean, that is completely contrary to our
24:52
Speaker 9: great Australian values. So absolutely, yes, there needs to be
24:56
Speaker 9: more transparency. Tony Burke is still the Minister of The
25:00
Speaker 9: buck stops with him. I would like to know, on
25:04
Speaker 9: behalf of the taxpayer, were these political connections disclosed to
25:09
Speaker 9: the department? Did Tony Burke actually disclose them once he
25:12
Speaker 9: found out the grant had been given?
25:14
Speaker 1: Who gave the grant? But more than that.
25:17
Speaker 9: What checks were undertaken? Because a pretty basic Google search
25:22
Speaker 9: throws up this information. How in God's name was this
25:25
Speaker 9: amount of taxpayers' money given to this organisation?
25:29
Speaker 1: Those questions need to be answered. And in the name
25:32
Speaker 1: of social cohesion, no less. I mean, if that's the
25:35
Speaker 1: Albanese government's idea of social cohesion, then I'm not surprised
25:38
Speaker 1: this is the state of our country at the moment.
25:41
Speaker 1: Turning on to this devastating news about Helen Haynes, who,
25:44
Speaker 1: of course, is in a critical but stable condition in hospital.
25:47
Speaker 1: She has reportedly lost one leg. She was well-liked, Michaelia,
25:53
Speaker 1: across the political aisle. How have you been feeling since
25:56
Speaker 1: you heard this news?
25:59
Speaker 9: I think like all Australians, I mean, just... Shari, utterly
26:03
Speaker 9: horrified that someone can be doing what she does on
26:06
Speaker 9: a daily basis, going around and serving her community, and
26:12
Speaker 9: then this happens.
26:13
Speaker 1: And you are right.
26:14
Speaker 9: I mean, I don't agree with everything Helen does. We
26:17
Speaker 9: have our political differences. But she is someone who is
26:20
Speaker 9: very well respected in the parliament. And at this point
26:26
Speaker 9: in time, I mean, my thoughts and prayers are with her,
26:29
Speaker 9: with her staff, with her family. But in particular, by God,
26:33
Speaker 9: I hope she does recover. But again, to think that
26:37
Speaker 9: she was just going about doing what she does on
26:40
Speaker 9: a daily basis, serving her community, which she loves doing,
26:45
Speaker 9: this is almost incomprehensible.
26:49
Speaker 1: Albanese has come out multiple times, a call to lower
26:52
Speaker 1: the temperature of political discourse. But, you know, as we know,
26:56
Speaker 1: the alleged perpetrator was an anti-Israel activist. So is this
27:00
Speaker 1: hypocritical of the prime minister?
27:04
Speaker 9: Look, in relation to this particular incident, I don't think
27:06
Speaker 9: that we can jump to conclusions. The motive's not yet
27:09
Speaker 9: known and it is an active investigation. More broadly, though,
27:13
Speaker 9: in relation to statements made by the Prime Minister, he
27:16
Speaker 9: tells Australians he wants them to lower the temperature. Well,
27:20
Speaker 9: Mr Albanese, you have been in government now for almost
27:24
Speaker 9: four and a half years and social cohesion begins at
27:28
Speaker 9: the very top. And I think Mr Albanese needs to
27:32
Speaker 9: take personal responsibility for the breakdown, Shari, in social cohesion
27:37
Speaker 9: in Australia, the rising divide in our communities, but more
27:42
Speaker 9: than that, the rise in antisemitism that we have seen
27:45
Speaker 9: in particular since October the 7th, 2023, given the government's
27:51
Speaker 9: appalling response to what occurred at the Sydney Opera House. So,
27:57
Speaker 9: I think it is hypocritical of the Prime Minister to
28:00
Speaker 9: lecture Australians when leadership begins at the top and he
28:06
Speaker 9: needs to own his record in relation to the breakdown
28:10
Speaker 9: of social cohesion in Australia.
28:13
Speaker 1: Do you think the Prime Minister should apologise for this
28:17
Speaker 1: dirt sheet on Helen Haynes that Peter Van Onselen has
28:21
Speaker 1: reported on today?
28:24
Speaker 10: I think.
28:25
Speaker 9: What is now apparent, sadly, and again, really at this
28:28
Speaker 9: point in time, you know, this has got to be
28:31
Speaker 9: all about Helen and her recovery. But sadly, the Prime
28:36
Speaker 9: Minister yesterday, he made comments in relation to what an
28:42
Speaker 9: amazing person she is and highlighted her integrity. only for
28:48
Speaker 9: the hypocrisy to be shown today, you know, with these
28:53
Speaker 9: facts that have now come forward, that the same Prime
28:56
Speaker 9: Minister only a few weeks ago was having a dirt
29:00
Speaker 9: sheet circulated via his office that actually undermined Helen's integrity.
29:06
Speaker 9: And worse still, why? Because she appropriately raised questions about
29:11
Speaker 9: in relation to the $ 6 million grant that went to
29:15
Speaker 9: the golf club that the Prime Minister is associated with.
29:18
Speaker 9: So I think, yet again, the hypocrisy of the Prime
29:21
Speaker 9: Minister is yet again on display. He says one thing
29:25
Speaker 9: in a press conference, only then for the facts to
29:29
Speaker 9: arise that but a few weeks ago he was actively
29:33
Speaker 9: seeking to undermine Helen Haynes' integrity. And that hypocrisy is
29:38
Speaker 9: on display for all Australians to see.
29:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty disappointing. Michele Cash, thank you very much
29:45
Speaker 1: for joining us from Perth. Really appreciate it. Great to
29:48
Speaker 1: be with you. All right, still to come, how George
29:51
Speaker 1: Maloney is showing up, Emmanuel Macron, plus the hypocrisy yet
29:55
Speaker 1: again of the TV commentator who seemed to justify political
29:59
Speaker 1: violence after the murder of Charlie Kirk. That's after this
30:03
Speaker 1: quick break. Welcome back. Well, today, a left-wing activist, Hannah Ferguson,
30:11
Speaker 1: who's running against the Prime Minister in his seat of
30:14
Speaker 1: Graindler at the next election. Was she called, like many others,
30:18
Speaker 1: for the temperature to be toned down in the wake
30:20
Speaker 1: of this dreadful attack on Helen Haynes?
30:24
Speaker 10: I think when we're talking about turning the temperature down,
30:26
Speaker 10: I think healthy debate and respectful discourse is a big
30:28
Speaker 10: part of that. But I also want to point out
30:30
Speaker 10: that Helen Haynes was not someone who engaged in unhealthy debate.
30:34
Speaker 10: When we talk about this temperature and this conversation, like
30:37
Speaker 10: Helen Haynes is one of the best members of parliament
30:38
Speaker 10: that there is. Yes, there is unhealthy discourse on social media.
30:42
Speaker 10: But when we see a woman like Helen Haynes target,
30:44
Speaker 10: I think it speaks to a bigger issue of male
30:46
Speaker 10: violence against women in Australia as well.
30:48
Speaker 1: Now, this made news today because many people remembered what
30:52
Speaker 1: Ferguson said after Charlie Kirk was killed. She questioned whether
30:58
Speaker 1: society should condemn every act of political violence. And in
31:01
Speaker 1: an article, she wrote, Am I happy that someone shot
31:09
Speaker 1: him in the neck in broad daylight?
31:11
Speaker 6: No.
31:12
Speaker 1: Do I believe he empowered the violence that ended his life? Yes.
31:16
Speaker 1: And do I believe he caused more harm than good? Yes.
31:19
Speaker 1: Is violence sometimes necessary?
31:22
Speaker 5: Yes.
31:24
Speaker 1: And on that note, joining me now is former Labor
31:27
Speaker 1: State Secretary Cameron Milner and former Liberal Senator, now One
31:31
Speaker 1: Nation member, Holly Hughes. I mean, of course, violence is
31:35
Speaker 1: never the answer. And Holly, this is why Hannah's been
31:38
Speaker 1: criticised all day today over this hypocrisy.
31:43
Speaker 7: I just can't tell you how angry I am about this,
31:46
Speaker 7: that we now have these leftists who were happy to
31:49
Speaker 7: condemn the murder of Charlie Kirk, who saw his debate
31:54
Speaker 7: process and system was.
31:55
Speaker 1: Literally changed my mind.
31:57
Speaker 7: What he tried to do was engage in civil discussion
32:00
Speaker 7: and discourse and debate. And yet these leftists were quite
32:04
Speaker 7: happy to almost condone political violence and his murder, if
32:10
Speaker 7: not condone it. And this blatant hypocrisy, this is why
32:14
Speaker 7: the temperature is where it is at, is because the
32:18
Speaker 7: left have been allowed to absolutely demonise anyone on the
32:22
Speaker 7: right wing and go out there and plainly say that
32:25
Speaker 7: violence is OK here. If it's directed at the people
32:29
Speaker 7: you disagree with, and this is the stuff that needs
32:32
Speaker 7: to be called out and called out all of the time,
32:35
Speaker 7: the fact that this woman is still being platformed is abhorrent.
32:39
Speaker 7: I mean, these are the people that should be removed
32:42
Speaker 7: from the public conversation because they've clearly, and in her
32:47
Speaker 7: own words, condoned political violence.
32:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, she has a platform, that's for sure, a
32:53
Speaker 1: big following as well. Cameron, you know, I get this
32:57
Speaker 1: sense that the Prime Minister's always calling for the temperature
33:00
Speaker 1: to be toned down, but I'm not sure he follows
33:03
Speaker 1: his own advice. What do you think? Well, he doesn't.
33:07
Speaker 11: And, I mean, this, you know, Hannah the hypocrite today,
33:09
Speaker 11: you know, if you have unhealthy debate, supposedly it's OK
33:12
Speaker 11: to be murdered. I mean, you know, this is appalling,
33:15
Speaker 11: disgusting stuff. But this is a woman who seems to
33:17
Speaker 11: have a social media strategy which is attach a stupid
33:19
Speaker 11: comment to whatever's trending today. You know, that's the problem
33:22
Speaker 11: with Hannah. But, no, to the Prime Minister, there is
33:24
Speaker 11: an absolute double standard, an absolute double standard with this
33:27
Speaker 11: Prime Minister. He talks about toning down the temperature while
33:31
Speaker 11: ramping it up on One Nation. He talks about toning
33:33
Speaker 11: it down on the political discourse while running a dirt
33:36
Speaker 11: unit on Helen Haynes, of all people. I mean, he's
33:39
Speaker 11: turning the heat up on Helen Haynes while asking everyone
33:42
Speaker 11: to turn the temperature down. He is a gross hypocrite.
33:45
Speaker 1: And just to return to the news tonight, the man
33:48
Speaker 1: allegedly responsible for this attack has been charged by Victorian police.
33:53
Speaker 1: In their statement, they say that after he was initially
33:58
Speaker 1: restrained by the member of public, there was a search
34:00
Speaker 1: warrant executed at his property this morning, that he's been
34:04
Speaker 1: charged with dangerous driving, causing serious injury, intentionally caused serious injury,
34:09
Speaker 1: and the Commonwealth offence of causing harm to a Commonwealth
34:11
Speaker 1: public official, and he will appear at Wangaratta Magistrates Court tomorrow.
34:17
Speaker 1: And police will allege that the incident... was targeted. So
34:21
Speaker 1: that's the breaking news from this evening about this individual.
34:24
Speaker 1: But it has sparked this debate about whether there does
34:27
Speaker 1: need to be better security protection for politicians. What do
34:31
Speaker 1: you think, Holly? Because if something like this could occur
34:35
Speaker 1: in supposedly safe country town when Helen was simply taking
34:41
Speaker 1: items out of her car, you think it could happen anywhere?
34:44
Speaker 7: It's so frightening and it's so distressing and, I mean,
34:47
Speaker 7: it was only a couple of weeks ago I took
34:49
Speaker 7: part in an interview with the Daily Telegraph around the
34:52
Speaker 7: online abuse that particularly female politicians get and that, you know,
34:56
Speaker 7: I still receive after leaving politics. It's absolutely breathtaking and
35:00
Speaker 7: then when you report it to Meta, you are told
35:04
Speaker 7: that it is in breach of community standards to say
35:07
Speaker 7: these things. So I think that there are some issues
35:10
Speaker 7: when it comes to social media and We've seen some
35:12
Speaker 7: of the tweets that this guy has put out, which
35:15
Speaker 7: are anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian. We're also hearing that there's schizophrenia
35:21
Speaker 7: and drug abuse and mental health issues potentially. And, you know,
35:25
Speaker 7: when are we going to learn? I mean, honestly, we
35:27
Speaker 7: had Bondi Junction with Joel Couchy with schizophrenia who took
35:31
Speaker 7: the lives of six people. We've had Bondi Massacre that
35:35
Speaker 7: happened with the anti-Palestinians. We need to start taking these
35:39
Speaker 7: issues seriously. Anti-Israel rhetoric is not acceptable. We need to
35:44
Speaker 7: look at our mental health system, that if these people
35:46
Speaker 7: have genuine mental health issues, including schizophrenia and not effectively
35:50
Speaker 7: being medicated, then perhaps just being left to their own
35:54
Speaker 7: devices is not the solution. But we know that every
35:57
Speaker 7: single mental health facility was shut down so people could
36:00
Speaker 7: be in the community. I mean, when are we going
36:03
Speaker 7: to start to have these conversations?
36:05
Speaker 3: I mean.
36:05
Speaker 7: I am just devastated for Helen. Like, honestly, I cannot
36:09
Speaker 7: tell you what a gorgeous, beautiful person she is. You
36:13
Speaker 7: wouldn't in a million years have put her, you know,
36:16
Speaker 7: in 150 parliamentarians, you'd have put her at the bottom
36:18
Speaker 7: of the list. I mean, this is just unbelievable on
36:21
Speaker 7: so many levels.
36:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is.
36:24
Speaker 7: I just worry that we'll just move on.
36:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no one's going to move on. No one
36:29
Speaker 1: will move on. Well, we seem to move on. Cameron,
36:33
Speaker 1: you've written a column in The Nightly this evening where
36:35
Speaker 1: you're basically saying that the government needs to reflect on
36:39
Speaker 1: its failings, particularly Albanese. What do you mean by this?
36:45
Speaker 11: Well, I think, you know, the Prime Minister's got to
36:48
Speaker 11: take responsibility. I mean, the Prime Minister has led for
36:51
Speaker 11: four and a half years a situation where social cohesion
36:54
Speaker 11: has fallen apart, where Islamic extremism can't even be talked about,
36:57
Speaker 11: though everyone in the community knows it's a problem. You know,
37:00
Speaker 11: we have the Bondi massacre, and yet the Prime Minister
37:02
Speaker 11: took three weeks to call a royal commission. This is
37:04
Speaker 11: a guy who, you know, continues to make error after error,
37:08
Speaker 11: and that's the problem. We don't have trust and faith
37:10
Speaker 11: in this Prime Minister to actually do the right thing.
37:12
Speaker 11: So the opportunities for him to step up after this
37:14
Speaker 11: Helen Haynes... This horrible, horrible Helen Haynes incident. Put partisanship aside,
37:19
Speaker 11: lead as a Prime Minister, do as John Howard would
37:21
Speaker 11: have done after Port Arthur, and lead for the sake
37:24
Speaker 11: of the nation. That's what the test is for Albo,
37:26
Speaker 11: because Albo's really good at partisan politics. He's not very
37:29
Speaker 11: good at being a Prime Minister.
37:31
Speaker 1: I want to turn to the France riots very quickly
37:34
Speaker 1: before we go. There has been a bit more action.
37:38
Speaker 1: Curfews are now being introduced across the country, including in
37:41
Speaker 1: parts of Paris. Other cities have banned gatherings and demonstrations.
37:47
Speaker 1: It's too late, of course, for many small businesses. President
37:51
Speaker 1: Trump has also given a stern warning to French President
37:54
Speaker 1: Emmanuel Macron. But, Holly, we're seeing very different early leadership
38:00
Speaker 1: from Giorgio Maloney, who's been tough from the get-go with
38:03
Speaker 1: guards protecting national monuments.
38:07
Speaker 7: Isn't she just a rock star? And I mean, it
38:08
Speaker 7: just shows the difference when you get ideologically left-wing leadership
38:14
Speaker 7: who make excuses, who encourage this sort of migration that's
38:18
Speaker 7: totally unfettered, don't want to see any assimilation whatsoever. And
38:23
Speaker 7: we've seen it in France and especially in Paris, but
38:26
Speaker 7: across France for a long time now, this ghettoisation that
38:29
Speaker 7: we've seen occur because of illegal immigration. Georgia Maloney is
38:34
Speaker 7: right on top of it. You know, I've been following
38:37
Speaker 7: some of the stuff in Poland lately where they have
38:39
Speaker 7: zero illegal migration and their economy is going gangbusters, their
38:44
Speaker 7: crime rate's right down, they don't have any of these issues.
38:48
Speaker 7: And if you can't start to draw the correlation, then
38:51
Speaker 7: we are just headed down the same road.
38:55
Speaker 1: Holly, Cameron, thank you both so much. Thank you. Still
39:00
Speaker 1: to come, could the alleged attack have been prevented? The
39:03
Speaker 1: man tipped to be Victoria's next police minister will join
39:06
Speaker 1: me after the break. Welcome back and returning to The
39:15
Speaker 1: Top Story, this devastating attack on Helen Haynes. And we're
39:18
Speaker 1: learning the perpetrator, Brendan Nugent, who has now been charged,
39:22
Speaker 1: was known to police. And joining me now is Victorian
39:25
Speaker 1: Shadow Minister for Police, Brad Batten. Brad, welcome. In your view,
39:30
Speaker 1: is there anything that could have been done to prevent
39:33
Speaker 1: this attack on Helen Haynes?
39:36
Speaker 6: Hi, Shari.
39:37
Speaker 12: First of all, obviously, I'm going to say it's from
39:39
Speaker 12: our perspective so far, it's very difficult. I haven't had
39:41
Speaker 12: the opportunity to speak directly to the Chief Commissioner or
39:44
Speaker 12: the police. I know Jess Wilson has met with Ben Carroll,
39:48
Speaker 12: We've asked to be kept updated and regular updates to
39:52
Speaker 12: see what's been happening and where the investigation's going. Yes,
39:56
Speaker 12: there's been some allegations out there at the moment around
40:01
Speaker 12: intervention orders with other members in the community. There's obviously
40:05
Speaker 12: been concerns raised about the offender in the past. Could
40:08
Speaker 12: it have been prevented? I don't want to go down
40:10
Speaker 12: that path until I've had a conversation probably more in
40:13
Speaker 12: depth with Victoria Police.
40:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough. The hero, Barber, we spoke about him
40:18
Speaker 1: on the program last night. He made a citizen's arrest
40:21
Speaker 1: after the politician was struck and he actually has spoken
40:25
Speaker 1: about how he pulled Brendan Nugent out of the vehicle
40:28
Speaker 1: while it was running. Have a look at this. It
40:31
Speaker 1: was crazy.
40:33
Speaker 13: I just ran out the front to see what was
40:35
Speaker 13: happening and I seen amazing members of the Wangaratta community
40:40
Speaker 13: who I all know or know most of them and they...
40:44
Speaker 13: were helping. I didn't realise the seriousness of the situation initially.
40:49
Speaker 13: And once it became relevant, I just did what I
40:52
Speaker 13: could and what others were already trying to do.
40:55
Speaker 1: Brad, Ricky Jeffries is a husband, father of three, literally
40:59
Speaker 1: put himself in danger. Incredible that with every tragedy, there
41:04
Speaker 1: are brave citizens like Ricky who step up to help.
41:08
Speaker 12: Yeah, what a legend. I've not just seen some of
41:10
Speaker 12: his interviews on the TV today, but also heard his
41:12
Speaker 12: interview on the radio and he's so calm. And considering
41:17
Speaker 12: what he's seen, we hear about first responders going and
41:20
Speaker 12: seeing these incidents all the time and the challenges faced after,
41:24
Speaker 12: but he's so calm. And I hope that he gets
41:26
Speaker 12: the support he will probably need over the next few days,
41:29
Speaker 12: but he has actually highlighted exactly what Australia is all about.
41:32
Speaker 12: It's the person that goes out, sticks up for their mate,
41:37
Speaker 12: backs their own instincts to go into these circumstances. And Shara,
41:40
Speaker 12: you've had it on your show before. How many people
41:42
Speaker 12: go into, run into a fire, protect their friends or
41:46
Speaker 12: do something like this and we want to say they're
41:48
Speaker 12: a hero and they go, oh, I just did what
41:49
Speaker 12: everybody else would do. Well, I'm going to say to Ricky,
41:52
Speaker 12: you did something that not everybody else would do. There
41:54
Speaker 12: would be people that stood around then out of fear
41:56
Speaker 12: and not went in there and you did and I
41:58
Speaker 12: think you need to be congratulated and I hope at
42:00
Speaker 12: a future date at the right time he gets rewarded
42:03
Speaker 12: for what he did.
42:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. And hopefully if Helen manages to
42:09
Speaker 1: pull through, as we're all praying that she will, they'll
42:11
Speaker 1: have a beautiful reunion at some point as well. They
42:14
Speaker 1: knew each other, her electorate office close by to his
42:17
Speaker 1: barber store. Brad, I want to ask you about the
42:19
Speaker 1: Victorian election. How are you feeling about the Coalition's prospects
42:23
Speaker 1: and whether you will be able to win outright without
42:28
Speaker 1: an alliance with One Nation?
42:30
Speaker 12: Yeah, obviously at every election you go in with your
42:33
Speaker 12: eyes wide open of what can and can't happen. And
42:35
Speaker 12: I'm pretty confident with the team we've got that we've
42:37
Speaker 12: got a plan that the Victorians can have confidence in.
42:41
Speaker 12: I can say personally, I've been working with Jess Wilson
42:44
Speaker 12: very closely. I've been working obviously a lot on the
42:47
Speaker 12: crime side, youth justice and justice side of things. But
42:50
Speaker 12: I know that Jess has been doing a great deal
42:52
Speaker 12: of work into ensuring that We have all of our
42:55
Speaker 12: policies costed, they're credible, that we're returning to a cash
42:58
Speaker 12: surplus by 2032, that we're delivering the right measures within
43:02
Speaker 12: the community for not just cost of living, but also
43:05
Speaker 12: if we're going to make changes in tax, that everything
43:07
Speaker 12: we try and do has some return in productivity. Because
43:10
Speaker 12: we know here in Victoria that a lot of money
43:12
Speaker 12: has been wasted. We've seen the mismanagement from the Labor government,
43:16
Speaker 12: whether it's Commonwealth Games or corruption. But what we want
43:19
Speaker 12: to see is every dollar that we are taking in tax,
43:22
Speaker 12: we are spending wisely. We're focusing on frontline services and
43:26
Speaker 12: any changes we make longer term for the budget is
43:28
Speaker 12: in the best interest of reducing debt. That will obviously
43:32
Speaker 12: give the best outcome for all Victorians. And let's be honest,
43:35
Speaker 12: we want to make sure businesses come back to Victoria.
43:37
Speaker 12: So that's what our focus will be.
43:38
Speaker 1: I did notice you sidestepped my question there, but it's
43:42
Speaker 1: okay because I've got another one for you. There's talk
43:45
Speaker 1: of having the One Nation leader involved in the leaders' debate.
43:50
Speaker 1: Do you think he should be very quickly?
43:53
Speaker 12: Yeah, look, my personal view on that is we've always
43:55
Speaker 12: had it as the leader of government and the leader
43:58
Speaker 12: of the opposition. And Jess Wilson has earned the right
44:00
Speaker 12: as leader of the opposition to be involved in that debate.
44:02
Speaker 12: It's the way it's been for a long time. We've
44:05
Speaker 12: never had any other party, even when their polls have
44:07
Speaker 12: looked pretty good, including in South Australia with Nick Xenophon.
44:10
Speaker 12: I actually think that the focus should remain between the
44:13
Speaker 12: government and the opposition for those debates.
44:15
Speaker 1: All right, so not have Warren Pickering involved.
44:18
Speaker 12: As I said, to have the leader of the opposition,
44:20
Speaker 12: you earn that right. If later on Warren earns the
44:22
Speaker 12: right to be the leader of the opposition, then he'll
44:24
Speaker 12: get that opportunity to be in those debates.
44:25
Speaker 1: All right. Brad, thank you very much for joining us.
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Speaker 1: After the break, we'll get the latest news on Helen
44:31
Speaker 1: and the OECD Secretary-General is backing Josh Frydenberg's tax reform.
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Speaker 1: We'll give you the details with Michael Stutchbury next. Well,
44:42
Speaker 1: with inflation and the Albanese government's high spending in the spotlight,
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Speaker 1: key figures have come out to support Josh Frydenberg's call
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Speaker 1: for an increase to the GST, but for personal income
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Speaker 1: tax rates to fall. Now, this includes the Grattan Institute,
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Speaker 1: but also the OECD Secretary-General, Matthias Korman. Joining me now
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Speaker 1: to discuss is Centre for Independent Studies Director Michael Stutchfree. Michael,
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Speaker 1: so he's giving a speech for the CIS on Saturday,
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Speaker 1: Matthias Korman, a fascinating speech where he's supporting, without naming him,
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Speaker 1: Josh's idea about raising GST but lowering personal income tax rates.
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Speaker 14: Yeah, I think this goes to show that what Josh
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Speaker 14: Frydenberg came out with the other day is really the...
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Speaker 14: the standard orthodox tax reform that Australia needs and is
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Speaker 14: widely recognised amongst tax exports. Australia taxes, as Matthias Cormann,
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Speaker 14: you know, Secretary-General of the OECD, quite an important figure,
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Speaker 14: says that Australia puts too much weight on taxing income,
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Speaker 14: so you're taxing effort and enterprise. 60% of our taxes
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Speaker 14: come from income taxes compared to, like, 35% for the
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Speaker 14: average of developed economies. So we tax income... and effort
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Speaker 14: more than other OECD countries. So the classic thing is
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Speaker 14: what John Howard did, basically, and what Paul Keating had
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Speaker 14: tried to do before him, increase taxes on consumption through
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Speaker 14: the GST, and then use that to cut both personal
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Speaker 14: income tax, cut the taxes, as well as indexing the
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Speaker 14: tax brackets, to also cut company tax, because Australian company
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Speaker 14: tax rate at 30% is too high, and that's restricting
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Speaker 14: foreign capital coming into Australia and developing the economy. and
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Speaker 14: also to have it to reduce stamp duties, state government
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Speaker 14: stamp duties, which are a really inefficient tax.
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Speaker 1: This is quite an extraordinary intervention in the economic political
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Speaker 1: debate by the OECD Secretary-General. Really, probably unusual, I would say.
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Speaker 1: What are his criticisms of how the current government's handling
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Speaker 1: the economy?
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Speaker 14: Well, it was quite a good thing for Senator for
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Speaker 14: Independent Studies in our 50th year, and he's basically taken
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Speaker 14: on our thesis that 2026 is a bit of an
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Speaker 14: of a echo of 1976 when we were established, when
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Speaker 14: Australia was last drifting, we had stagflation, we had Middle
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Speaker 14: East oil shocks, big government, and we were very underperforming.
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Speaker 14: underperforming other developed economies.
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Speaker 1: So this is really.
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Speaker 14: I think he's got a bit buoyed by all of this.
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Speaker 14: And although while having, you know, not trying to..... not mentioning,
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Speaker 14: you know, current government too much, and he doesn't let
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Speaker 14: his own side of politics off, but across the board,
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Speaker 14: it's a bit of indictment of really the lack of
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Speaker 14: policy reform across a whole range of areas. As you say, tax,
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Speaker 14: big government, energy, industrial relations, you name it. He's saying
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Speaker 14: we've got the settings wrong and if we're going to
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Speaker 14: want to get growth going again, want to get wages up,
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Speaker 14: want to ease the cost of living squeeze, we've just
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Speaker 14: got to move on these things like Australia did in
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Speaker 14: the 1980s and the 90s under both sides of politics.
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Speaker 1: What about government spending? What does he have to say
47:45
Speaker 1: about that?
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Speaker 14: Well, as he points out, government spending has been outpacing
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Speaker 14: the growth in the economy. So that means that government
47:52
Speaker 14: as a share of the economy has been increasing over
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Speaker 14: particularly since the pandemic. The pandemic, it came down a bit,
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Speaker 14: but it's been increasing for each of the last three years.
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Speaker 14: That means it's really sort of crowding out the rest
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Speaker 14: of the private sector, pushing up inflation and pushing up
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Speaker 14: interest rates.
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Speaker 1: Now, as I understand it, his broad argument is that
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Speaker 1: this set of economic circumstances, when people are doing it tough,
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Speaker 1: leads to unrest that drives people towards populism. Is that right?
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Speaker 1: But he's saying populism isn't the answer.
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Speaker 14: Yes, he's saying that around the world you're seeing what
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Speaker 14: you call the plight of the centre-right, centre-right mainstream parties,
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Speaker 14: like the Conservative Party in the UK, the French centre-right
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Speaker 14: party of Charles de Gaulle, for that matter. The Australian
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Speaker 14: Liberal Party has now really been squeezed and hurt by
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Speaker 14: this rise of populism in Australia One Nation. He's saying
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Speaker 14: that no, it would be a mistake to go to
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Speaker 14: real populist policies, which sometimes tend to be big government,
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Speaker 14: and what, say, the Liberal Party and the Coalition should
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Speaker 14: do in Australia... and for that matter the Labor Party,
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Speaker 14: is go back to the orthodox pro-market, a bit smaller government,
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Speaker 14: tax reform, freer industrial relations, less regulation in the job market,
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Speaker 14: and to get energy costs down, do those simple things,
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Speaker 14: and that will ease the cost of living squeeze, which
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Speaker 14: is really generating this. So say on, say, migration, he's
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Speaker 14: sort of pushing back about let's just do have some
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Speaker 14: race on an arbitrary cut on immigration.
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Speaker 5: Yeah.
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Speaker 14: He's saying that that will make Australia shrink and contract,
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Speaker 14: will be one of the few, because we're an immigrant country,
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Speaker 14: will be one of the few economies or countries to
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Speaker 14: be growing in population over the next 50 years because
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Speaker 14: of demographic bulge of the baby boomers. Populations in many
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Speaker 14: other countries will fall. You know, it's a tough thing
49:39
Speaker 14: to have a shrinking economy. We should be a growth economy.
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Speaker 14: So he's saying what you should do to that is
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Speaker 14: fix up the problems that it's causing.
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Speaker 5: Yep.
49:47
Speaker 13: Housing.
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Speaker 1: You know, build more houses.
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Speaker 14: Get rid of all the regulation and red tape and
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Speaker 14: the restrictions that stop you doing medium-density housing and just
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Speaker 14: build more houses.
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Speaker 1: Inspired by you, of course, Stach. But it sounds like
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Speaker 1: he's got quite a thesis here. Do you reckon he'll
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Speaker 1: come back to politics? Any interest?
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Speaker 14: Look, I can't see him coming out of the OECD
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Speaker 14: and coming back to politics.
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Speaker 5: No.
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Speaker 14: Maybe Josh will get in before he does.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe they both will at a later date. All right,
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Speaker 1: Michael Slutchby, thank you so much. Fascinating. And thanks for
50:16
Speaker 1: your company this evening. I'll see you tomorrow night, of course,
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Speaker 1: at 8 o'clock. And right now, here's Paul Murray.