Latest / Walking with Jaguars / #8 - Bram Kanstein - Beyond Bitcoin: Freedom, Plant Medicines and Universal Truth

Transcript

#8 - Bram Kanstein - Beyond Bitcoin: Freedom, Plant Medicines and Universal Truth · Walking with Jaguars

• 0:11
  Welcome back to the Walking with Jaguars podcast.
• 0:13
  Today I have a very special guest. Brum is an
• 0:17
  entrepreneur. He's a father. He's a Bitcoin educator.
• 0:20
  He's the host of the Bitcoin for Millennials
• 0:24
  podcast. And he's just a badass in the space
• 0:27
  and we connected and I think the energies are
• 0:29
  just really aligned and I'm excited for this
• 0:30
  conversation. Is there any other like hats or
• 0:33
  identities or labels you like to wear and put
• 0:36
  on yourself? Well, it's all made up anyway, except
• 0:40
  the father part, I think. But, well, yeah, I
• 0:44
  think it's just, I'm thinking about the label
• 0:48
  Curious. You know, like you said, I have a Bitcoin
• 0:52
  podcast and I have over 200 episodes. And I think
• 0:55
  the main thing, like the main personal trait
• 0:58
  I see with people that are into Bitcoin is just
• 1:01
  curiosity. Like not, like just accepting they
• 1:04
  don't know everything and also being excited
• 1:06
  about. figuring out what they don't know right
• 1:09
  like just that that journey is interesting to
• 1:12
  them by definition and then whatever the conclusion
• 1:15
  is is what the conclusion is right but i think
• 1:18
  curious people are really um yeah they kind of
• 1:22
  have a leg up uh with the rest of the world when
• 1:26
  it comes to bitcoin so uh maybe add curious curiosity
• 1:30
  love it love it and you're 100 right it's one
• 1:33
  of those things where you you are going down
• 1:35
  a rabbit hole You know, and very quickly you're
• 1:38
  like pushed up against a lot of ideas and societal
• 1:42
  norms that you have to challenge in a big, big
• 1:45
  way. You know, it's just as much an unlearning
• 1:47
  process as a learning process. If you're not
• 1:49
  intellectually curious, like you're just going
• 1:52
  to run into walls immediately. Yeah. Well, I
• 1:56
  think just the running into the wall is already
• 1:58
  trigger number one, right? Like not even realizing
• 2:03
  what is behind the wall. It's just like. Like
• 2:05
  you said, the fact that when you go down this
• 2:09
  Bitcoin rabbit hole, the central question is,
• 2:12
  what is money? And just realizing that you never
• 2:16
  really learned what money is and what that actually
• 2:20
  means, that no one ever taught you, but it's
• 2:22
  like the most important technology people use
• 2:24
  to communicate with each other, to express value
• 2:27
  with each other. When you really sit with that
• 2:30
  and think about it, that is already just incredibly
• 2:33
  messed up. It's like, why weren't I taught what
• 2:36
  this is, right? Like, why is my reference to
• 2:38
  money basically me being five or six years old,
• 2:42
  getting some coins, going to a store, saying
• 2:44
  like, can I have a bread or a lollipop? And I
• 2:46
  give the coins and I get it back. And then I'm
• 2:49
  like, well, you know, that's money. And then
• 2:51
  the rest of your life, you never really think
• 2:53
  about it until, you know, for me, I was like.
• 2:57
  mid, late twenties, where I just realized I have
• 3:00
  no clue. And it's funny because I realized it
• 3:02
  when I was, well, actually when I was 30 working
• 3:05
  in a bank, I had a mortgage and then I had a
• 3:08
  colleague tell me, did you know the money in
• 3:09
  the bank is not yours? And I was like, what are
• 3:10
  you talking about? And then we had a conversation
• 3:13
  for an hour where he explained like fractional
• 3:15
  reserve banking and stuff like that. And I just
• 3:18
  remembered walking away from that conversation
• 3:20
  being like, okay, I'm an idiot. Like I have no,
• 3:22
  look at me, look at where I am, what I'm doing.
• 3:24
  I was already into Bitcoin. I was like, I have
• 3:26
  no clue what I'm even investigating basically.
• 3:32
  And yeah, when you go down this path of what
• 3:36
  is money, I think just realizing that you are
• 3:39
  acting in a system. where you think you're an
• 3:42
  actor, but you're actually a subject, I think
• 3:44
  that is already like fork in the road number
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  one. Like you have to take that red pill basically
• 3:51
  and be like, okay, well, I'm an idiot. I have
• 3:53
  no clue. I was unconsciously unaware of what
• 3:55
  I was doing. And I should follow this path if
• 3:59
  I want to figure it out, right? And if you want
• 4:02
  to ignore that, I think that is already a very
• 4:05
  big decision if that makes sense, right? Like
• 4:08
  once you realize that there's other people. know
• 4:11
  better than you that influence the money that
• 4:13
  you trade your time and energy for then yeah
• 4:16
  that's already pretty messed up right and then
• 4:18
  that is like the start the very start i think
• 4:20
  of of of a part of the right yeah it starts with
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  like cataclysmic confusion for step one your
• 4:29
  entire world has to dissolve yeah absolutely
• 4:31
  yeah i think i was like also just in some ways
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  like bred to be a bitcoiner you know i remember
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  Like we have memories and like, you don't remember
• 4:40
  everything in your life. You just have like bits
• 4:42
  and pieces. But I have this memory of being like
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  nine years old, asking my dad, is $1, like a
• 4:49
  $1 coin worth a dollar? And it was like, of course
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  not, you know? And it was like, from the moment
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  I could conceive of money and like coins and
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  everything, it was like, this doesn't make sense.
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  And then you just get gaslighted. Well, that's
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  like almost Voltaire level, right? Like, what
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  does the one mean on the bill? What does the
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  20 mean? He says like all money goes back to
• 5:14
  its value. You know, the value of the paper it's
• 5:18
  printed on. But that's quite profound for a six
• 5:22
  -year -old. Yeah. I mean, I didn't really explore
• 5:26
  that idea until, you know, I was in my early
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  20s. So, you know. But that, isn't that funny?
• 5:32
  Like that you're just doing things. And then
• 5:35
  at one point you're like, what am I actually
• 5:37
  doing? And now also, I mean, I'm late 30s when
• 5:41
  I think about me being 22. No clue where I was.
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  No clue. I survived somehow, right? But just
• 5:51
  totally unaware. And I think when you get to
• 5:54
  that point where you, by some trigger or... you
• 6:00
  know you you get to that point where you're like
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  what am i actually doing what am i actually involved
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  in how do i actually react like like the kind
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  of like the who am i question you know i think
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  i think that's when a lot of this stuff basically
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  opens up right that that just investigating that
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  for yourself i think already kind of like pokes
• 6:19
  holes in the in the in the veil of the structure
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  you know that that you just participate in and
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  then you realize no one really has figured it
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  out. Everyone is winging it, right? So how can
• 6:34
  I be, yeah, kind of like more in control or be
• 6:37
  more conscious about what I'm doing in it? Yeah.
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  I think that's like another door of that rabbit
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  hole in a sense that maybe if you get there early
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  and you just accept that you don't know everything,
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  that's kind of when it becomes easier. But I
• 6:50
  agree. I also think I was kind of wired and lucky
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  in that sense to get. uh bitcoin like i was always
• 6:59
  the annoying kid in class that asked all the
• 7:01
  questions right and then you know the other kids
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  were always like oh there's problem again with
• 7:05
  a with a question i was like no but i i'm actually
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  listening i'm participating like i want to learn
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  that's why i'm actually asking the question right
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  and they were all like no you just have to ingest
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  whatever this you know person of authority is
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  telling you and uh I never really cared about
• 7:21
  those comments, but that's what I think about
• 7:25
  when I think back, like, okay, what kind of helped
• 7:27
  me or what are like the personality traits that
• 7:30
  I have that actually helped me. But I also think
• 7:32
  it's luck to a degree that you also kind of enjoy
• 7:35
  the pain of taking that red pill, right? Like
• 7:39
  it's not a fun experience. It's not relaxed.
• 7:43
  No, I mean, it's the opposite of comfort seeking.
• 7:46
  Right. It's like putting yourself in discomfort
• 7:48
  to see kind of what you're made of. You know,
• 7:50
  that's funny, though. I was very much the same
• 7:53
  in school, you know, and I'm curious if the people
• 7:56
  who were like Bitcoiners and kind of got the
• 7:58
  signal early and understand it to the degree
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  that, you know, the Bitcoin maximalist kind of
• 8:04
  people do if they were similar, whereas sort
• 8:07
  of like a trait shared among all of us, they
• 8:09
  were just bad students, like intelligent, but
• 8:12
  like couldn't handle it. Well, I don't know if
• 8:16
  you believe in these Meyer Briggs personality
• 8:19
  types. Like I have a joke here, like INTJ on
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  the cap. I don't know if you've ever seen like,
• 8:25
  do you know the Meyer Briggs? I know of it, yeah.
• 8:27
  Yeah, so you know this research that like some
• 8:30
  Bitcoiners did on Twitter where they were trying
• 8:32
  to figure out what are like the personality types
• 8:35
  of Bitcoiners. And it turned out that like...
• 8:39
  24 or 26 % of Bitcoiners are like INTJ or INTP,
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  where it's only like 2 % of all people that are
• 8:47
  INTJ or INTP, right? So I'm not like super deep
• 8:52
  in it, but I think it's a fun joke, but I just
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  Googled it. Like INTJ is a personality type.
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  So it was introverted, intuitive thinking and
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  judging, right? So the judging part is really
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  like, well, Is what you're telling me really
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  true, right? Is the one on the bill less valuable
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  than the 20 on the bill? Like that doesn't really
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  make sense. No one ever really explained to me
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  why that is, right? Like, so I think it's kind
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  of that, right? Like that it's, some things are
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  just so illogical that you were told that it
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  just doesn't let you go. Like you cannot accept
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  it until you kind of understand why it is the
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  way it is. And I think it's, to be honest, I
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  think it's a deeply like uncomfortable personality
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  because you're like constantly, it's like never
• 9:45
  chill, right? You're like constantly questioning
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  and searching and trying to discern whatever
• 9:52
  you find. Pressure testing everything that you
• 9:55
  come into contact with. Yeah. Because like, who
• 10:00
  knows? That's kind of my base thing. It's like,
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  no one knows anything. So why would this be true
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  or the fact or the science or, you know what
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  I mean? Like, so I, I, I think, I think it's,
• 10:12
  it's that, but it's, um, I don't think it's like
• 10:15
  skepticism. I think it's more like, um, uh, yeah,
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  like honest curiosity, like just, just not taking
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  anything for, for, for at face value or for also
• 10:29
  for granted, by the way. Yeah, I think it's just
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  inquisitive and also having joy in doing that,
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  I would say, right? Like there's a lot of people
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  that don't enjoy thinking or talking or reflecting
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  or whatever, right? They just go with whatever
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  the entertainment of the day is or something.
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  That's also fine, right? But yeah, I think this
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  is just kind of how we are wired, perhaps. I
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  don't know if you, do you, have you ever looked
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  at your Myers -Briggs or not? I think I did.
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  you know like a long time ago but i feel like
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  i'd have to do it again i couldn't tell you what
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  i was but i'll do it after this i'll check i'll
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  do a pressure test you know uh yeah okay so this
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  conversation is like i want to really go beyond
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  bitcoin you know because like bitcoin is in this
• 11:18
  incredible technology um but it just becomes
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  like a new beginning point at least it was for
• 11:25
  me so Just to kind of like frame the conversation
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  for the people who aren't like super deep down
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  the Bitcoin rabbit hole, what is it that Bitcoin
• 11:34
  fundamentally fixes? I think Bitcoin fundamentally
• 11:41
  fixes the actual measurement of value, right?
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  So anything that you can put your productivity
• 11:52
  towards, which is your... your energy expended
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  in your time, right? So when you do something
• 12:00
  for an hour, you spend your energy. That's like
• 12:02
  how productive you are and whatever your output
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  is. I always use this example. So if we agree
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  on a certain trade, I have a proposition, right?
• 12:15
  I have... I do something for you. And my proposition
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  is X, Y, Z. You get this value, right? That's
• 12:22
  what I think you need. And you walk by my store
• 12:25
  and you see like, oh, hey, this is the thing.
• 12:27
  Bram offers is exactly what I need, right? And
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  that is, of course, my task as the entrepreneur
• 12:32
  is to understand what you need, right? So we
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  find each other. You walk in the store. The thing
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  I offer is $100 units. And you are like, well,
• 12:42
  100 is a bit too much. Can we do it for 80? And
• 12:45
  then I'll be like, no, we can do it for 90. And
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  we shake hands. Like we did that in total freedom,
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  right? Like I kind of understand what you're
• 12:55
  looking for. You think it's perhaps a bit too
• 12:57
  expensive. You say what it's worth to you. And
• 13:01
  I, you know, counter and we say, okay. And so
• 13:03
  that seems like a free market economy, basically.
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  But then I get to work, I create whatever my
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  proposition was for you and I deliver that, right?
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  But then when you give me your reward, right,
• 13:21
  which is fiat money, dollars, yen, euros, et
• 13:24
  cetera, a third party kind of comes into play.
• 13:29
  There's like a third party that determines what
• 13:31
  the value of that reward is. And so if the reward,
• 13:37
  the 90 money units for me were good enough, right?
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  Because I agreed, I even proposed it, the 90.
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  I say like, okay, these 90 money units, I think
• 13:51
  represent, you know, the value I'm giving to
• 13:55
  you and you agreed. So that's how we measure.
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  That's how our measurement is, or our agreement
• 14:01
  is basically measured, right? That's our exchange.
• 14:03
  It's an equal exchange. I give you something,
• 14:05
  you give me something in return. And what you
• 14:07
  give to me in return, I can spend on things that
• 14:11
  other people make with their productivity and
• 14:13
  time and energy. So we make that deal. I give
• 14:18
  you what I created. You gave me the $90 units.
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  But if I don't want to spend these 90... units
• 14:27
  immediately and i want to save them build capital
• 14:32
  right so pooled money is capital that i can spend
• 14:35
  on other things that cost energy um this is one
• 14:39
  thing i learned along the way from a non -bitcoin
• 14:41
  podcast actually someone said if you look around
• 14:43
  you everything that you see cost energy to create
• 14:46
  or maintain i thought it was super interesting
• 14:48
  so right so even like the wooden cabinet like
• 14:51
  like or energy from the sun went into the tree
• 14:55
  and there was like rain and the tree grew and
• 14:58
  someone chopped the tree, right? And went to
• 15:01
  a factory and they made beams, et cetera, et
• 15:03
  cetera. So there's like energy and everything
• 15:05
  costs energy to create or maintain. And so that
• 15:09
  is basically what you do as a human. So if I
• 15:13
  have these 90 money units and I don't want to
• 15:15
  spend them now or even tomorrow, maybe I have
• 15:18
  a plan and I want to spend them in... a year
• 15:21
  because I want to move somewhere or build out
• 15:23
  my store or start a family or buy a home or whatever
• 15:26
  I want to do in the future. Conceptually, these
• 15:32
  90 money units should keep their value, right?
• 15:37
  So even if I want to spend them in a year, they
• 15:40
  should be able to buy me the same amount of productivity.
• 15:43
  Let's stick with productivity as they did when
• 15:46
  you paid me, right? But because there's this
• 15:49
  third party. who is involved with this, they
• 15:54
  set the value of this money. And their whole
• 15:56
  system is designed around the fact that this
• 16:00
  money loses value by 2 % each year. And their
• 16:03
  stick is, this incentivizes the spending of the
• 16:07
  money, right? And that's how we grow and all
• 16:10
  these things. So there's this kind of like economic
• 16:13
  ideology philosophy that kind of rules. our money
• 16:18
  system and our financial system, the Keynesian
• 16:20
  economics. But if you just go back to me having
• 16:25
  the 90 money units that lose value over time,
• 16:30
  and in reality it's more than 2%, my measurement
• 16:36
  for value kind of becomes jaded, right? It becomes
• 16:40
  crooked. Like whatever you could buy from me
• 16:44
  for 90 is not what I can buy in a year for. for
• 16:47
  90 and usually it goes really slow and slow and
• 16:51
  slow right but over time over a long enough time
• 16:53
  frame eventually you know this money uh loses
• 16:58
  its value so what does that what does that bring
• 17:01
  me it brings me more anxiety towards the future
• 17:05
  so everyone has general anxiety towards the future
• 17:10
  like i can die i can die tomorrow like we don't
• 17:12
  we don't really know when when we die right so
• 17:15
  there's just this organic kind of anxiety towards
• 17:17
  the future that hopefully gives you a certain
• 17:21
  motivation today to make the most out of today,
• 17:25
  right? That's the point. And so when I decide
• 17:28
  what I want to do today, create value for Matt,
• 17:31
  right? That was my decision. I changed my time
• 17:34
  and energy. You gave me a reward. If that is
• 17:36
  what I did, what does it mean when the reward
• 17:40
  I got actually loses value over time and gives
• 17:44
  me... more anxiety because I'm able to plan less
• 17:48
  for the future. But my whole goal is to plan
• 17:51
  more for the future because my goal is to create
• 17:54
  this capital, right? And so you can already kind
• 17:57
  of see how my needs or my want or my desires
• 18:01
  are basically in a certain fight or in a certain
• 18:07
  tension with the tool, the technology I'm using
• 18:11
  to be able to Provide that for myself. Does that
• 18:15
  make sense? So if I get more anxious towards
• 18:20
  the future, I discount the now also, right? Because
• 18:25
  I'm not really living in the now. I'm not really
• 18:28
  enjoying it because my anxiety is going up and
• 18:31
  up and up towards the future. And that also impacts
• 18:34
  all the decisions I want or could or maybe should
• 18:37
  make in the future or today because my future
• 18:42
  is so uncertain. And so when I say like the measurement
• 18:48
  for value is, you know, why that was so eye -opening
• 18:51
  to me is that with fiat money, there's one point
• 18:54
  of the measurement of value is that when we shake
• 18:57
  hands and agree. And only after that, my tool
• 19:03
  that I can use to measure and exchange value
• 19:05
  with other people already measures less, basically.
• 19:09
  So it's like... It's like a yardstick or one
• 19:12
  meter becomes like 98 centimeters or 97. And
• 19:17
  so you can imagine if you want to build a house
• 19:19
  with a ruler that changes constantly, you don't
• 19:23
  really buy, you don't really create a stable
• 19:25
  structure, right? So what is Bitcoin then? And
• 19:29
  I think Bitcoin in essence is extremely simple,
• 19:33
  extremely simple, but it's really hard to understand
• 19:36
  why the simplicity is so profound. What do you
• 19:40
  need for a ruler? How do you measure a meter,
• 19:44
  a kilowatt, a kilogram? How do you do that? You
• 19:47
  do that with something that doesn't change. It
• 19:50
  is this one thing and this one thing only. And
• 19:55
  so for measurement, well, there is discussions
• 19:59
  around the world, right? Some people use miles,
• 20:01
  some other people use kilometers, et cetera.
• 20:04
  They all have their origin. But the most commonly
• 20:07
  used, I think, in this example, is the metric
• 20:09
  system, just like kilograms. I don't use stones.
• 20:13
  In England, they use stones. There's certain
• 20:18
  common language as to how we measure voltage,
• 20:23
  length, weight, etc. But there's no measurement
• 20:26
  for value at all. Well, they are there, but they're
• 20:31
  not constant because they're losing value all
• 20:34
  the time. When you think about Bitcoin, where
• 20:38
  does this stability come from? How do you know
• 20:41
  that one Bitcoin basically is always one Bitcoin?
• 20:45
  Like a meter is always a meter and a kilogram
• 20:47
  is always a kilogram. It's because its base structure
• 20:54
  is rooted in a set of rules in a computer protocol,
• 20:58
  which basically says I'm this and this and this
• 21:00
  and this and this. And like the whole computer
• 21:02
  network has a goal. which is not only to secure
• 21:06
  the information that is stored on the blockchain
• 21:08
  but also to uphold the integrity of these these
• 21:12
  rules right so the longer the rules are the rules
• 21:15
  right the longer um they exist which is a lindy
• 21:20
  effect right the longer something exists the
• 21:23
  the bigger the probability that it'll stay alive
• 21:26
  that makes it more trustworthy and you'll love
• 21:29
  where i i wonder what you think of this so it's
• 21:32
  like The longer this exists, the more data is
• 21:36
  stored in this ledger, in this blockchain of
• 21:39
  Bitcoin, in this network. And the stronger the
• 21:41
  computer network around Bitcoin is, that makes
• 21:45
  it less prone to change, more immutable. The
• 21:48
  more trustworthy Bitcoin becomes as a measurement
• 21:51
  of value, basically. When you hear Christine
• 21:57
  Lagarde talk, right, European central bank president,
• 22:00
  she says one euro is one euro, but that's incorrect
• 22:02
  because in 1999, one euro was a euro at the introduction.
• 22:07
  Today, that one euro is 37 cents. And so she
• 22:12
  says one euro is one euro. Yeah, well, maybe
• 22:14
  on the bill, right? But not in the... productivity
• 22:19
  or the energy that I can buy with it that it
• 22:21
  should represent. So over time, in only 25 years,
• 22:24
  it already lost over 70 % or over 60 % of its
• 22:28
  purchasing power. And so the whole goal of Bitcoin
• 22:31
  is I'm going to stay the same. That's what I
• 22:34
  mean with this. I think that's the simple genius.
• 22:40
  I'm never going to change. It's very boring.
• 22:43
  The whole point is that it doesn't. It just chugs
• 22:47
  along. It doesn't have to be fancy or whatever.
• 22:49
  The whole point is I'm going to stay the same
• 22:53
  and more and more people are going to store value
• 22:55
  in this thing, the system. And the system is
• 22:59
  just going to chug along. It's going to add another
• 23:02
  block. Every 10 minutes, we get more proof that
• 23:05
  this thing is reliable and you can trust it.
• 23:08
  And over time, I think that is why more and more
• 23:11
  people will figure that out because. When you
• 23:15
  look at fiat money, it's like the total opposite
• 23:17
  of fiat money, right? Who decides on the value
• 23:20
  of the euro? I only know Christine, right? Like
• 23:24
  I have no clue who she works with, right? And
• 23:27
  in America, the Federal Reserve has never been
• 23:29
  audited. Like there are all these institutions,
• 23:33
  people, you know, they don't care logically about
• 23:37
  your individual prosperity as much as you do.
• 23:39
  So, but still it is, you are dependent on them.
• 23:44
  And they are part of the system you're not even
• 23:46
  part of, right? So, I mean, I'm in a Euro area,
• 23:50
  but I have to pay attention to the dollar because
• 23:53
  that has effect on my Euro, for example. Like
• 23:55
  all these things. And so Bitcoin is just a thing
• 23:59
  that no one controls, but there is a decentralized
• 24:03
  network of computers and people that actually
• 24:06
  maintain this and secure this. verify this and
• 24:12
  the fun thing is of course you can verify it
• 24:14
  for yourself so you can actually audit bitcoin
• 24:18
  entirely by yourself with like one one line of
• 24:22
  code and and that is it right it's like literally
• 24:24
  15 characters and you press enter and then you
• 24:27
  can verify everything for yourself and so that
• 24:30
  gives you so much continuity and also transparency
• 24:35
  that for me That kind of like emerges as a better
• 24:40
  way to measure this value. And the crazy thing
• 24:44
  is, and I watched some stuff from you, of course,
• 24:47
  like where I take like the step to the more spiritual
• 24:51
  connection with Bitcoin is, I don't know if you,
• 24:55
  do you know Thomas Campbell? My big theory of
• 24:58
  everything. Do you know that? I think he's like
• 25:01
  a physicist. He has this whole thing about it,
• 25:04
  but he has a podcast, My Big Toe. I would recommend
• 25:08
  you listen to it. Listen to the first three episodes.
• 25:10
  It's about physics, quantum mechanics, consciousness.
• 25:13
  And all I could think about was Bitcoin. So he's
• 25:17
  talking about how our experienced reality is
• 25:22
  basically a super low entropy version of the
• 25:28
  super high entropy, which is consciousness or
• 25:30
  the everything, basically. So we are a manifested
• 25:34
  consciousness in the most dense. form of consciousness,
• 25:38
  the lowest entropy. And he talks about high entropy,
• 25:42
  low entropy and stuff like that. And all I could
• 25:44
  think about was Bitcoin. It's like, holy shit,
• 25:45
  in Bitcoin, we're taking abundant energy chaos,
• 25:49
  right? There's never ending energy. It's high
• 25:52
  entropy, right? We take that and we condense
• 25:54
  it into a chain of data, which is probably the
• 26:01
  highest form, the highest form of ordered information
• 26:04
  in... The entire history of humanity. Does that
• 26:09
  make sense? So you take something from like super
• 26:11
  high entropy and you put it in like a super clear
• 26:14
  like data structure. It's like super low entropy.
• 26:17
  It's like super ordered and super clear and anyone
• 26:20
  can see what this is. And so while he was talking
• 26:22
  about it, I was like, holy shit. Okay, so if
• 26:25
  I really believe why this is spiritual for me
• 26:30
  is like if you can align with how the world works.
• 26:34
  Right. With how the physical reality is manifested
• 26:37
  and created. If you create something in this
• 26:41
  physical reality that aligns with like the order
• 26:44
  of creation or the way things are created in
• 26:47
  this reality, then you should pay attention.
• 26:50
  If that makes sense. So that's, well, I really
• 26:54
  wonder what you think, but that's kind of how
• 26:56
  you can go from like, okay, it's like a monetary
• 27:01
  finance tool to like. Holy fuck, this is a super
• 27:05
  profound discovery because it does align with
• 27:09
  all these bigger principles. And when you look
• 27:12
  at the adoption of Bitcoin, for example, it follows
• 27:15
  this power law, which you can find everywhere
• 27:18
  in nature, right? And so we can talk about that.
• 27:20
  But it's just like, there's these things that
• 27:23
  I came across when I was looking into Bitcoin.
• 27:28
  I was like, whoa, this is so much. It's so much
• 27:31
  bigger. It's so aligned with, like I said, the
• 27:35
  mechanics of creation almost. It is. It almost
• 27:41
  feels like an organic technology in the way that
• 27:44
  it's structured too. And like you were saying,
• 27:48
  it becomes a constant, but it's not a constant
• 27:52
  in isolation either. It's actually a constant
• 27:56
  because... To some degree, you could work out
• 27:59
  the amount of proof of work that was done by
• 28:01
  the miners to do each block. And you could work
• 28:03
  out how many kilowatts are in your coin of like
• 28:09
  real world energy. That's wild. Yeah. And also,
• 28:15
  sorry, I want to add one thing is my Bitcoin
• 28:19
  is the same as your Bitcoin. Like you from your
• 28:22
  side of the world at your time, at your moment
• 28:25
  with your computer, like how you verify Bitcoin
• 28:28
  is exactly the same as how I verify Bitcoin,
• 28:31
  which is mental, right? Like if you think about
• 28:35
  it, like what can you and I verify right now?
• 28:40
  Extremely precisely where we both are like, oh
• 28:42
  yeah, that's the same thing. Not even the color
• 28:45
  on my wall, we could not even do that. Does that
• 28:48
  make sense? So it is like. an absolute truth
• 28:51
  that we share. I think that is wild. It's insane.
• 28:58
  And like when we're talking about bringing things
• 28:59
  from like high entry to low entropy, it's like
• 29:02
  Bitcoin is a fixed supply. And although it works
• 29:07
  really amazingly as money, as this unit of money
• 29:10
  in like exchange that we're doing peer to peer
• 29:13
  amongst each other and everything, money itself
• 29:15
  is an abstraction, right? It's like, what can
• 29:18
  we just use? And Bitcoin, it's really just the,
• 29:25
  it's not even really like the invention, but
• 29:28
  it's kind of just like the invention of absolute
• 29:30
  scarcity. You know? And then it's like, now we
• 29:35
  get to play with what that does. And then you
• 29:38
  just go down this ripple effect of this insane
• 29:41
  effect on like everything that's created culturally.
• 29:46
  A hundred percent. But you also end up with like
• 29:49
  certain realizations or you hear people say something
• 29:52
  where you're like, yeah, that's super logical,
• 29:53
  rational, makes sense, but it never existed before,
• 29:58
  right? And I think one is like abundant money
• 30:03
  creates scarce resources and like scarce money
• 30:06
  creates abundant resources. Like it took me a
• 30:09
  while to think about like, what does that mean,
• 30:13
  right? I think when you can infinitely create
• 30:17
  money, this is also so funny because the whole
• 30:20
  economic ideology or philosophy that I mentioned,
• 30:25
  the Keynesian ideology is just so easy to poke
• 30:30
  holes into. So they're saying we need growth.
• 30:34
  Therefore, we need to devalue all existing money
• 30:37
  units. So it loses value, so the humans are incentivized
• 30:42
  to do something and grow. But they never really
• 30:46
  talk about how that growth is nominal. It's just
• 30:49
  denominated. It looks like the value goes up
• 30:52
  because the price goes up, but the price only
• 30:55
  goes up because the units that you're measuring
• 30:57
  it in actually go down in value. And when you
• 31:02
  can create infinite money that is basically diluted
• 31:06
  all the time, you create a lot of things, but
• 31:13
  they're not necessarily of value, right? So it's
• 31:15
  kind of like dilutes the marketplace of value.
• 31:18
  It's really hard to find like durable products
• 31:23
  or like super valuable. I think this is what
• 31:25
  people see every day, right? And I always have
• 31:28
  the example, like I live in a home. That's like
• 31:31
  120 years old. Like my doors are nice. Like my
• 31:34
  stair is nice. It's like a hard door. And the
• 31:37
  door even has like, you know, decorations. And
• 31:40
  like my whole stair is like a curved, like wood
• 31:43
  thing and whatever. Like there was like a carpenter
• 31:45
  doing that. And he was thinking, I'm going to
• 31:49
  make this like super nice. And like in a hundred
• 31:51
  years, this is still going to be there. That
• 31:54
  was his motivation. And now like a modern door
• 31:57
  is not even made of wood. And if it's made of
• 32:00
  wood, it's like this, like pressed together,
• 32:02
  whatever, sawdust or something. And so you see
• 32:05
  that because you cannot measure value, but there's
• 32:09
  like a lot of units that people could chase of
• 32:11
  money, people are just doing whatever it takes
• 32:15
  to get some of the pieces of that kind of like
• 32:18
  abundant money. But if you have scarce money,
• 32:21
  so scarce, so with infinite money you have. scarce
• 32:27
  true value, if you have scarce money and everyone
• 32:30
  is basically fighting, i .e. competing for the
• 32:34
  scarce reward, everyone is going to be forced
• 32:38
  to figure out what actual value delivery means.
• 32:42
  Like, what do people need? Like, you don't want
• 32:45
  to waste your time building something that nobody
• 32:49
  wants, not only like in the financial or economical
• 32:52
  sense. Also, because you don't want to waste
• 32:55
  your scarce time. Does that make sense? Like,
• 32:57
  I love that thought where it's like, when you're
• 33:02
  forced to create value, you're also forced to
• 33:05
  think about what the value of your time is, right?
• 33:08
  And then when you have an idea of something that
• 33:10
  you would do, you are again forced to... to really
• 33:15
  figure out if you want to do that or something
• 33:18
  else before you actually continue, which is also
• 33:21
  like a total opposite of how people are doing
• 33:25
  things nowadays, right? Like everything is fleeting.
• 33:28
  Everything is like five minutes or 10 seconds
• 33:30
  or whatever. And like, this is why I love Bitcoin.
• 33:35
  We go from like finance to spiritual to like
• 33:38
  more like philosophy or like what is like personal.
• 33:42
  uh motivation and stuff like that and and this
• 33:44
  is what bitcoin is it's like so intertwined but
• 33:47
  it comes back to the core of what is money like
• 33:49
  if the money if the money is not a good measurement
• 33:54
  of of the value that it's exchanged for then
• 33:58
  like all these secondary third order effects
• 34:02
  even even further they they all happen and i
• 34:07
  love that example of like your place just having
• 34:09
  amazing carpentry work And it makes perfect sense
• 34:12
  where, like you were saying, if the money is
• 34:16
  slipping through your fingers and literally second
• 34:18
  by second, the value that you have sitting in
• 34:20
  your bank account is actually going down. Like,
• 34:24
  of course, you're going to want to take the best
• 34:27
  staircase that you can get right now, because
• 34:30
  in 10 years, it's going to be so much worse and
• 34:33
  so much worse of what you're able to get for
• 34:35
  your money. right and then that's the inverse
• 34:37
  but you have bitcoin you're like i know this
• 34:40
  thing is actually going to go up in value over
• 34:42
  time so for me to actually get rid of it it has
• 34:47
  to be something very worth it for me because
• 34:49
  i'm actually so incentivized just to hold it
• 34:52
  yeah so it's not only the people on the spending
• 34:57
  side of fiat money that are incentivized to spend
• 35:00
  it fast it's also the on the on the like value
• 35:03
  creation side where people are incentivized to
• 35:06
  create create create as or you know push things
• 35:10
  out push you know you know plastic clothing whatever
• 35:14
  the fuck people buy from like timu or whatever
• 35:16
  like that that is a symptom does that make sense
• 35:19
  like i feel that that is a symptom right like
• 35:21
  the the the the the chase of the infinite money
• 35:25
  that is being printed infinitely faster as time
• 35:30
  progresses, also creates the incentive for people
• 35:34
  to chase that even further. And so, again, when
• 35:38
  you go back to like the discounting of the future
• 35:42
  and discounting of the now, if your only activity
• 35:47
  today is being a consumer, how are you going
• 35:53
  to be a builder? of yourself, of the world, of
• 35:55
  a family, or whatever you want to create. And
• 36:01
  that's where I think, yeah, the spiritual part
• 36:03
  again shows. And I also think, I call it like
• 36:06
  it's a spiritual crime. Like it takes time and
• 36:08
  space away from like the spiritual part of the
• 36:14
  experience of your life, right? And I know you're
• 36:18
  deep in this too, but it's like there is this
• 36:20
  duality or there's this... understanding of the
• 36:24
  the physical experience but also understanding
• 36:26
  the the spiritual experience of your life and
• 36:30
  if you're like constantly stuck basically in
• 36:33
  the physical world then there is no time and
• 36:36
  space to to explore the the spiritual part of
• 36:41
  your life even at like a physical level there's
• 36:45
  something about allowing the channels of creativity
• 36:49
  and intuition and all of these things to flow
• 36:52
  where you can't have a jacked up nervous system
• 36:56
  you know like you actually kind of need to be
• 36:59
  calm to actually create from like a true place
• 37:03
  so we take that idea of The money is just inflating
• 37:09
  like crazy. You can't think about the future.
• 37:12
  Everything's slipping out of your fingers at
• 37:14
  all times. Then you do the inverse where it's
• 37:16
  like everything's slow, patient, forward thinking,
• 37:19
  you know? And it's just, you have to switch your
• 37:24
  whole life around. Everything has to change because
• 37:28
  all your incentives completely flip instantly.
• 37:31
  And I think that's where like the Bitcoin is
• 37:35
  really interesting. Because as soon as you get
• 37:38
  it, you have to make drastic changes. And I was
• 37:40
  talking to you before we started recording. And
• 37:43
  I was saying, you know, like when I found Bitcoin,
• 37:46
  it was like just life consuming. It was like
• 37:49
  I had to do everything I could to learn what
• 37:51
  this thing was. It's just hours and hours of
• 37:54
  research and podcasts and books and everything.
• 37:57
  And up until I started the podcast, which was
• 38:03
  like two months ago, I hadn't. looked at any
• 38:05
  Bitcoin, anything, because my life had almost
• 38:09
  gone beyond where it was like, okay, I understand
• 38:11
  what this is. But now for me to take action on
• 38:14
  everything I know, it's actually about how do
• 38:18
  I basically create like a Bitcoin salary for
• 38:22
  myself, you know, so that my pay is actually
• 38:25
  going up and up and up over time. How do I position
• 38:28
  myself in the world to maximize freedom? And
• 38:32
  like, these are all the questions that come beyond
• 38:34
  Bitcoin. It's really just this starting point
• 38:37
  of where now you just receive a whole new layer
• 38:41
  of free will. And then it comes back to like
• 38:45
  this idea of like mastery. And it's like, okay,
• 38:47
  like in your life now, what do you actually want
• 38:50
  to create? You know, and people think like, okay,
• 38:54
  but I found Bitcoin. It's the best thing ever.
• 38:57
  So I'm going to double down even harder into
• 39:00
  the world of fiat, try to crank out as much money
• 39:03
  as I can to get the Bitcoin so that I can retire.
• 39:06
  But it's still such a high time preference perspective
• 39:10
  where if you flip that as well and you go, okay,
• 39:15
  I know I'm going to be acquiring Bitcoin throughout
• 39:17
  my entire life. There's actually no rush because
• 39:21
  it's always going to be working for me as time
• 39:23
  goes on. We have to think in generations, too,
• 39:27
  where I don't see my children feeling like they
• 39:32
  need to hustle as hard as they can to get Bitcoin
• 39:34
  at the USD price that it is for their children.
• 39:39
  Do you know what I mean? It's like the accumulation
• 39:42
  will happen. So now how do I set up a structure
• 39:46
  of my life where my actual beliefs and my desires
• 39:50
  and I get to live the life that I want to live?
• 39:53
  And that question is really interesting because
• 39:56
  it now is beyond Bitcoin. And it's like, who,
• 40:00
  who am I? Like, I know a lot of people who don't
• 40:04
  even know what they believe in. If they could
• 40:07
  retire right now. And I say like retiring quotes,
• 40:10
  because we never stopped working, but it's like,
• 40:12
  if you weren't making decisions for money, what
• 40:16
  would you do? Yep. I mean, I think to kind of
• 40:25
  add to this bridge of where we're going, you
• 40:29
  know, if people think about, but if Bitcoin is
• 40:32
  the money and I really have to work for it and
• 40:35
  I really have to figure it out, like what happens
• 40:37
  when I do something wrong, you know? But that's
• 40:40
  the whole point is like when you denominate your
• 40:43
  money in Bitcoin, right? And you said, you know,
• 40:45
  purchasing power goes up. Why does it go up?
• 40:47
  It's because in history. people have always moved
• 40:51
  to the better money, right? Like trading your
• 40:54
  finite time and energy for money that can be
• 40:56
  created infinitely is like the dumbest thing
• 40:58
  that you can do. And as long, well, when you
• 41:01
  figure that out, when you realize that that is
• 41:04
  factually the case, right? That I think is, well,
• 41:11
  at least it was for me is when I realized, whoa,
• 41:16
  I just need to, I need to save in this other
• 41:19
  money. I need to move to this other money. That's
• 41:22
  how I'm going to protect over a long timeframe,
• 41:25
  right? We're recording this as it blasted to
• 41:27
  like $85 ,000, which is the exchange rate, not
• 41:30
  the price, right? It's over a long enough timeframe.
• 41:34
  And that is already part of what you just said.
• 41:36
  It's like, okay, but I'm thinking about my life.
• 41:39
  I'm not thinking about today or next week. No,
• 41:41
  I'm thinking about my life. When have you really
• 41:43
  thought about your life? When did you really
• 41:45
  actually have the time and space to think about
• 41:47
  your life? Whatever that means for... you right
• 41:50
  and so time and space creation when you know
• 41:55
  you know if you know that what the capital you
• 41:58
  have the wealth you have gets more purchasing
• 42:01
  power over time because organically and proven
• 42:04
  in history more and more people will move towards
• 42:07
  a money that better protects you know their time
• 42:11
  and energy um that's why purchasing power goes
• 42:16
  up and eventually i don't think It matters how
• 42:20
  much Bitcoin you have. It's about you owning
• 42:23
  Bitcoin and knowing it's increasing in purchasing
• 42:27
  power over time gives you the time and space
• 42:29
  now to try something. But even more importantly,
• 42:33
  it gives you time to fail. So even when you deliberately,
• 42:37
  like super consciously choose like, okay, this
• 42:39
  is the thing I'm going to try or do now. or attempt,
• 42:43
  whatever, right? Like people way back in the
• 42:46
  day attempted to sail around the world and discover
• 42:48
  new continents and build like super crazy big
• 42:51
  stuff, right? Which took even longer than their
• 42:55
  life to complete. Like they never even saw the
• 42:57
  product of what they started, right? That's what
• 42:59
  people did back in the day, right? When you have
• 43:03
  that time and space to try something, because
• 43:06
  of Bitcoin, you also have the time and space
• 43:08
  to fail. So even when you fail, even when you
• 43:11
  attempt something and then you fail, the wealth
• 43:15
  you had has at least the same amount of purchasing
• 43:19
  power or maybe even more over that longer timeframe.
• 43:24
  And that is something I also absolutely love
• 43:27
  because that is not... present today. In fiat
• 43:31
  money, it's not there because if you try something
• 43:33
  and you fail, whatever you had left also lost
• 43:35
  its purchasing power, right? So that's why you're
• 43:37
  not incentivized to try something risky or new
• 43:41
  or daunting or whatever. And I think just having
• 43:45
  that realization already, I have the time and
• 43:49
  space to do what I want. Like you used free will,
• 43:52
  right? I don't know if free will exists, but
• 43:56
  that's a different conversation. But it's like
• 43:57
  the conscious choice, the conscious choice and
• 43:59
  reflection, right? And being like, okay, this
• 44:02
  is what I'm going to do. I think that is the
• 44:04
  liberating part, knowing that you can actually
• 44:07
  do that. And when you experience that for one
• 44:09
  time, you can never go back, right? Because if
• 44:12
  you go back, there's other people that control
• 44:14
  your space and time. And I think we see that.
• 44:16
  Like I was just messing around on the internet
• 44:19
  the other day and I realized, I looked up how
• 44:22
  many people, start a business like and actually
• 44:26
  try to be entrepreneurs and it's four percent
• 44:29
  globally start a business right and then like
• 44:35
  only one in ten businesses get through like the
• 44:38
  initial kind of like testing to actually become
• 44:41
  anything so we're talking about 0 .4 percent
• 44:45
  of the population of people who are entrepreneurs
• 44:48
  who actually can create income from it right
• 44:52
  And you take that idea and you're like, how is
• 44:55
  that even possible? If we go back to like, say
• 44:58
  like a hunter gatherer community, right? Everyone
• 45:02
  is an entrepreneur. By, well, by definition.
• 45:06
  Exactly. Someone goes out, they catch a fish
• 45:09
  one day, they trade, it all works like that.
• 45:11
  And we've just had this mass migration of like
• 45:15
  everyone just becoming. employees because it's
• 45:19
  so difficult to be entrepreneurial because everything
• 45:24
  is working against you in terms of money you
• 45:27
  know like the money is slipping through your
• 45:28
  fingers your savings account doesn't work and
• 45:32
  then on top of everything you're taxed 30 40
• 45:35
  50 percent on any profits that that did get acquired
• 45:39
  you know and now that's gone so we have 90 9
• 45:46
  .6 % of the population probably not doing what
• 45:51
  they wish they could do. Yeah, and I fully agree.
• 45:57
  Although, well, there's always people that are
• 46:02
  happy to be the worker bee or the worker ant,
• 46:10
  right? And they are... They can be super happy
• 46:14
  in their lives, right? So I think it's not about
• 46:16
  kind of like the judgment of what makes someone
• 46:20
  happy, but more about are you doing what you
• 46:25
  want to do, basically? Whatever that is, right?
• 46:29
  And if you are a worker bee type person and you're
• 46:32
  doing what you want to do and you're happy, then
• 46:34
  that is amazing, right? But yeah, I agree. I
• 46:39
  think there's many people that... do do stuff
• 46:43
  in their in their life that they hate not because
• 46:47
  they consciously choose to do something difficult
• 46:49
  or do something difficult because they created
• 46:52
  that created a path of creation where inevitably
• 46:56
  there are difficult things that you know come
• 46:59
  come to you that's the whole point i think but
• 47:03
  they're doing things they hate just for money
• 47:07
  And that, again, I think is what for me is like
• 47:11
  the spiritual crime. It's like all this untapped
• 47:14
  human potential basically captured in some weird,
• 47:18
  yeah, kind of like battle for attention or energy
• 47:23
  or time, whatever. And that's kind of sad, I
• 47:29
  think. Maybe that's just how it goes. I don't
• 47:31
  know, right? That's maybe a bigger question,
• 47:33
  but it's like, well, what would be the end state
• 47:36
  where you and I would be like, okay, well, now
• 47:38
  it's like fair or something. I don't know what
• 47:41
  that is, but I do agree with you. There's so
• 47:44
  much, yeah, what I think is like untapped potential
• 47:47
  or like untapped experience of whatever this
• 47:51
  is, kind of like hijacked by other people, no
• 47:56
  better than us or them. Does that make sense?
• 47:59
  Like it is, there's this invisible hierarchy
• 48:04
  and you cannot really name the names, but it's
• 48:07
  still there. And part is organic and part is
• 48:11
  absolutely not organic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:15
  And the inorganic part is just trying to basically
• 48:22
  stop the free market taking place. Yeah, it's
• 48:28
  so funny. I don't know what the tweet was, but
• 48:32
  it's usually people of a certain political philosophy.
• 48:40
  I'm thinking about what the tweet was, but I
• 48:42
  100 % agree. It's like they cannot handle the
• 48:46
  actual reality, the reality of taking full ownership
• 48:51
  of whatever. you define as what has been given
• 48:55
  to you with this experience of life they are
• 48:58
  they are so afraid of doing that that they rather
• 49:04
  control other people so they don't have to get
• 49:06
  to the point where they are actually confronted
• 49:09
  with um their kind of like in inability to take
• 49:14
  ownership that's that's really what i think yeah
• 49:18
  that makes me think of like the word humiliate
• 49:21
  you know And like, it's like etymology, you know,
• 49:26
  and it's like to be humble. But even further,
• 49:28
  like in Latin, it's like humus. It's like literally
• 49:30
  the soil. It's like to be grounded in reality.
• 49:35
  Oh, really? Oh, cool. And it's like these people
• 49:38
  are so far detached from the earth and from the
• 49:41
  human experience that they have no ability to
• 49:45
  like live other than to siphon off other people's
• 49:49
  work. And that's where these weird centralized
• 49:52
  powers are created. Well, they cannot create.
• 49:55
  They don't understand that the... I love this.
• 49:59
  I knew we would talk about this. If I take a
• 50:03
  turn now, let me know. But this, the being grounded
• 50:09
  part, I absolutely love, right? And I have to
• 50:12
  think back to what you said about hunter -gatherers.
• 50:15
  I always think like... The first two guys, let's
• 50:21
  imagine we are in a hunter -gatherer village,
• 50:22
  right? We are the first two guys where they say
• 50:24
  in the morning, well, you don't have to go out
• 50:26
  today. We have a little surplus. You can do something
• 50:28
  else. What would we do? What would we do? And
• 50:33
  I think what we would do is to look up and be
• 50:37
  like, what the fuck is going on? What is happening
• 50:40
  here? There's like a fireball in the sky that
• 50:42
  comes up and goes down. And then there's like,
• 50:44
  then it's like dark. And then there's like snow
• 50:46
  and rain. And then like. All the children die
• 50:49
  and the food perishes and then the flowers are
• 50:51
  there again. And then the summer, like what is
• 50:52
  going on? What does this mean? What is this existence?
• 50:55
  You know, like, like I think the most profound
• 50:58
  questions come instantly at you when you are
• 51:01
  like at that start. Does that, does that make
• 51:03
  sense? Right. Like, it's like, what is this?
• 51:04
  Like, I need to know what, what is happening
• 51:06
  here. Like, there's no concept of time or whatever.
• 51:09
  Well, the time is created by the, by the, by
• 51:11
  the, by what is happening in the heaven. Right.
• 51:13
  Like, like how that's moving. And so. I think
• 51:17
  the first thing to realize, and they already
• 51:20
  realized that, I think, before that moment is
• 51:22
  like, you are this in like the infinite space
• 51:27
  of reality or dimensions or whatever. Like you
• 51:30
  are, there is something above you, you cannot
• 51:32
  ever fully understand. So you have to accept
• 51:38
  at the core that you have no clue. You don't
• 51:41
  even know why you exist, what this is, what this
• 51:43
  means, right? And I think that is, if you really
• 51:46
  get to that, like instantly, right? And like
• 51:49
  you said, they had to pay attention, like all
• 51:51
  the animals pay attention when they're chased
• 51:53
  by another animal. There's like never a deer
• 51:55
  that says like, mid -chase, like, well, that's
• 51:59
  it, whatever. I don't really want to do this
• 52:01
  anymore, right? Like that is like nature. It's
• 52:04
  like, do you ever see a tree stop growing, right?
• 52:07
  Like, you know, so. I think way, way, way back,
• 52:13
  the humans were just instantly humble because
• 52:17
  they knew they couldn't control everything. Are
• 52:22
  you following? No. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay.
• 52:26
  So. Now, in modern times where you and I grew
• 52:30
  up with a six -year -old going to the store with
• 52:33
  the coin, oh, well, this is money. And people
• 52:36
  that have more money are better than other people
• 52:38
  that have less money and whatever. There's all
• 52:39
  these fucking constructs going around us creating
• 52:43
  or contributing to however we define this paradigm,
• 52:50
  right? How we make sense of the world, how we
• 52:52
  label the world, basically. And there are some
• 52:55
  things that... are like tested in time as to
• 53:00
  how we label the world, right? Like if I ask
• 53:03
  you, what color is this? You say white and I
• 53:05
  say white, right? And this is black and there's
• 53:07
  green. But there's never like the exact same
• 53:10
  interpretation in your mind as in my mind. We
• 53:12
  just labeled like a spectrum of light to say,
• 53:15
  to have an agreement as to what this is so we
• 53:18
  both can make sense of our like mutual experience
• 53:21
  of the reality. Yeah, so. And that is like basic,
• 53:26
  but like what is money and what does money mean
• 53:30
  or having X, Y, Z amount of money or whatever.
• 53:32
  Like it's all these parts of these constructs
• 53:35
  that help us to define the reality. But it also
• 53:40
  takes us very far away of being that grounded
• 53:43
  as these people were, which are biologically
• 53:48
  basically the same as you and I are today. And
• 53:53
  think about like that difference. What does that
• 53:57
  even mean? How are we so far away from people
• 54:01
  that came before us that are biologically exactly
• 54:05
  the same? Why aren't we even, why are we so far
• 54:10
  away from that point of just looking up and being
• 54:13
  like, what the fuck? Like, I don't know what's
• 54:16
  going on. And that's okay. It's okay that I don't
• 54:18
  know, but this is my, I have a place. I'm not
• 54:21
  at the top. I'm definitely not at the top of
• 54:23
  any fucking chain, right? There's a place. I
• 54:27
  mean, they literally, the Fiat took away the
• 54:30
  sky. Like you can't see the stars at night now.
• 54:34
  You're not even connected to the greater thing
• 54:36
  that's going on, you know? Yeah, that's true.
• 54:38
  That's true. Yeah. But what do you think about
• 54:41
  that? Like, I'm thinking about where I wanted
• 54:44
  to go. This is, I think about this stuff so much.
• 54:47
  And that's why it's nice to be on the guest side.
• 54:49
  I can have a moment to form my thoughts. But
• 54:58
  we are not aligned in a natural way anymore.
• 55:02
  And I think that's what I get from when you say
• 55:07
  this. Humus, that's great. I never thought about
• 55:10
  it. But yeah, to be grounded, like, what is this?
• 55:12
  Who am I? What is this experience? Am I the meat
• 55:15
  suit? Am I my thoughts? Am I something else?
• 55:18
  You know, do I speak my thoughts or do I hear
• 55:22
  my thoughts or do I see the thoughts or do I
• 55:24
  observe the thoughts? Like, what the fuck? You
• 55:26
  know, and like that, again, to go back to space
• 55:28
  and time, like you need space and time in order
• 55:33
  to even start on that more like spiritual. journey
• 55:38
  or at least whatever your journey is to kind
• 55:41
  of understand what your place in existence is
• 55:46
  or something like that i don't even know how
• 55:48
  to define it but it's like yeah make sense of
• 55:51
  whatever this is for you in your own way however
• 55:54
  you you do that absolutely and i think we see
• 55:57
  that like and you know in like the spiritual
• 55:59
  side of things the the first big like opening
• 56:03
  that happens is you begin to realize you're not
• 56:06
  just your mind, you know, and you're actually
• 56:10
  like the awareness and like your thoughts aren't
• 56:12
  necessarily yours and they're just moving through
• 56:14
  and you can just observe all of it. And when
• 56:18
  you're like living in that state of like pure
• 56:21
  fucking stress attention, like you're just problem
• 56:24
  solving all the time of like, how do I get to
• 56:27
  the next day? Whereas I think, like you said,
• 56:29
  as soon as you take that step back and it's like,
• 56:31
  okay, we're good. What do we do? And then you
• 56:33
  look at Machu Picchu, you know, and like they
• 56:37
  have it set up where it's like this incredible
• 56:39
  thing up on the mountain. They have a way to
• 56:42
  suck water out of underneath the mountain up
• 56:45
  into like spouts that come out for the people
• 56:48
  to live off. And then out on the distance on
• 56:53
  one of the mountains, there's a gate, right?
• 56:55
  And on the solstice, the sun passes directly
• 56:59
  through it. so they know exactly when in the
• 57:03
  year they're there yeah and it's like they worked
• 57:07
  out and they mapped the stars and they understood
• 57:09
  like what was around them and then the next step
• 57:13
  from that feels like it's just like this connection
• 57:17
  of like okay i am this being in this world and
• 57:20
  like i need to make sense of it who am i how
• 57:22
  do i live a good life how do i live a life that
• 57:25
  i would be like proud of you know to reflect
• 57:28
  upon and For me, it kind of comes back to like,
• 57:32
  it's talking about Machu Picchu, like the Incas,
• 57:35
  right? Through all this philosophy and all this
• 57:38
  understanding of who they were in the universe,
• 57:40
  they came down to four laws of humanity. First
• 57:44
  law, family. Second law, community. Third law,
• 57:48
  work. And the work has to benefit the community.
• 57:52
  And the fourth law is ceremony. And it's literally
• 57:55
  your connection to God, right? And you go, okay,
• 57:58
  well, what's the most important out of those
• 58:00
  four, right? And everyone would go, oh, family,
• 58:03
  right? They go, no, it's ceremony. That's the
• 58:08
  grounding experience. It's like, who am I, like,
• 58:14
  compared to creator, you know? And then, like,
• 58:17
  if I'm not good in myself and, like, I have depressions
• 58:21
  and anxieties and all of this, like, I'm not
• 58:24
  good for anyone. You know, so it started like
• 58:28
  fixing you first. Well, I'm also disrespecting
• 58:32
  the gift of the life, right? The experience of
• 58:41
  the physical reality. I'm just thinking, imagine
• 58:45
  the first time the sun went through the gate
• 58:48
  and they were looking at it. Think about that.
• 58:51
  Think about the first, the very first time they
• 58:53
  would be like. Like waiting, like everyone would
• 58:56
  be looking and then it would be like, whoa, we
• 58:59
  did it. That's so fun. I had to think about that.
• 59:02
  But that like, how incredibly rewarding that
• 59:05
  must have been if they all worked on that together.
• 59:09
  And everyone did their part. Everyone did their
• 59:12
  part, right? And then the sun went through the
• 59:16
  freaking gates and all they could do was tell
• 59:19
  the time. Pretty wild. how much like work and
• 59:24
  energy and literal energy and sweat and stuff
• 59:29
  went into that to just, just figure out where
• 59:35
  you were in, in a time that they didn't even
• 59:39
  probably fully understand to even the bigger
• 59:43
  degree. Does that make sense? Like, it's just
• 59:45
  like one little point at one moment in the whole
• 59:49
  movement of the earth, just one point. They got
• 59:53
  one date locked in on the calendar. Exactly.
• 59:56
  Yeah. Imagine that. That's all what they had
• 1:00:00
  to achieve. Just the use case of it. But all
• 1:00:05
  the work that went in just to understand their
• 1:00:08
  point of where they were at in like the infiniteness
• 1:00:14
  or the never even comprehensible -ness, right?
• 1:00:18
  That is mind blowing. The stairs in my house
• 1:00:22
  are nothing compared to that. Does that make
• 1:00:24
  sense? I think it's so funny. It's so funny to
• 1:00:27
  think about. Everyone is contributing to this
• 1:00:30
  thing. And even that, I find it hard to think
• 1:00:34
  about that in modern days. But how amazing, how
• 1:00:41
  aligned must that feel when all these people
• 1:00:44
  are working together for the same thing? Whatever
• 1:00:47
  their job or their task was in the bigger scheme
• 1:00:50
  of things, they were working towards something
• 1:00:53
  and having like a shared goal, like a destination,
• 1:00:57
  having a shared celebration, all these things
• 1:00:59
  when it actually happened. Like just if you think
• 1:01:03
  about that for a second, just you can imagine
• 1:01:05
  how rewarding that must be and how aligning,
• 1:01:11
  how aligning, like very, very aligned. And it's
• 1:01:16
  like you said, like it's a product of alignment
• 1:01:18
  at the community level, right? Like we often
• 1:01:22
  live in like these little isolated worlds where
• 1:01:25
  like you don't even know your neighbors anymore.
• 1:01:27
  But you, you know, if you get to a point where
• 1:01:30
  you're like, you know, financially pretty good,
• 1:01:32
  you're like good inside your little box, you
• 1:01:34
  know, but like for them to create that meant
• 1:01:36
  the entire tribe had enough low time preference.
• 1:01:42
  you know, like supplies to undergo a mission
• 1:01:45
  like that. Yeah. And it's not like every morning
• 1:01:48
  everyone will be like, oh yeah, I'm going to
• 1:01:50
  like walk the fucking mountain again and, and,
• 1:01:53
  and, you know, get some rock or whatever, like
• 1:01:56
  whatever they had to do. So they were, they were
• 1:02:01
  also giving themselves to that bigger thing.
• 1:02:03
  They were, you know, the sacrifice, the sacrifice
• 1:02:06
  of, of. I think do the work for like a higher
• 1:02:12
  calling or reward or whatever that you cannot
• 1:02:16
  even define because you can only experience that
• 1:02:20
  in the moment when you get there, right? So that
• 1:02:22
  is like the classic. Value is subjective. Yeah.
• 1:02:26
  It's so funny. It's that. Dude, so many of these
• 1:02:29
  classic things are so true. It's like, it's the
• 1:02:31
  journey, not the destination. That is literally
• 1:02:33
  what I'm saying now, right? Like it's so corny.
• 1:02:37
  But when you think through it, it is just, there's
• 1:02:39
  a truth in it, right? That's also what I came
• 1:02:41
  to realize is that some of these things that
• 1:02:44
  we think are corny, like sayings or whatever,
• 1:02:47
  like when you have a child, this is like the
• 1:02:49
  last, this is by the way, what I think is the
• 1:02:51
  last thing that you ever hear in your life from
• 1:02:54
  like an elder person where you're like, oh yeah,
• 1:02:56
  whatever. You know what I mean? Like when you're
• 1:02:57
  12 and an older person says something, you're
• 1:02:59
  like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then they're
• 1:03:01
  like, well, you'll understand when you. When
• 1:03:03
  you are my age, right? The last thing you hear,
• 1:03:06
  that's that thing, is if you get a child and
• 1:03:09
  people say like, pay attention, it's going to
• 1:03:11
  go really fast. And then you're like, yeah, yeah,
• 1:03:13
  yeah. And now my son is like seven. And I'm like,
• 1:03:15
  what? What happened? Like, where did time go?
• 1:03:20
  That's like the last thing I always say. It is
• 1:03:22
  like what I think is when you dismiss something
• 1:03:25
  an older person says, that is the last thing.
• 1:03:27
  And then after that, you just listen because
• 1:03:30
  they are truths. They are still the truth. And
• 1:03:33
  people tell them to other people because it's
• 1:03:36
  true. It's corny as fuck. But it is still true.
• 1:03:40
  And the corny is your judgment. It's your judgment.
• 1:03:45
  The idea that we even label it corny is just
• 1:03:49
  to show the bad programs that we're running.
• 1:03:53
  In a lot of other cultures, it's like the people
• 1:03:57
  who are the elderly, they're the elders. you
• 1:04:00
  know and it's like oh now the elderly can't contribute
• 1:04:03
  to the workforce so they're just like thrown
• 1:04:04
  to the side they don't have anything intelligent
• 1:04:06
  to say i'm here on the hustle you know and i
• 1:04:09
  think this is a fun kind of just tangent into
• 1:04:12
  you get on the bitcoin signal and you start to
• 1:04:16
  really understand and you get to see you know
• 1:04:19
  at a different kind of way behind the curtain
• 1:04:22
  you know you get like a glimpse behind the curtain
• 1:04:25
  and I know that plant medicines are something
• 1:04:31
  that you're experienced in and are curious about
• 1:04:35
  and are like walking that path. So I'm curious,
• 1:04:38
  like how the plant medicine thing side of things
• 1:04:41
  has led to your evolution. I never really. thought
• 1:04:53
  about it in a question form like this so i'm
• 1:04:56
  good i think i think um it it there's there's
• 1:05:01
  um it's funny like when i really got into it
• 1:05:05
  more was actually when i heard something very
• 1:05:07
  like rational and factual from uh paul stamets
• 1:05:11
  you know paul stamets um well he was like world
• 1:05:14
  famous mycologist he was on joe rogan and he
• 1:05:17
  um He shared like, he has like this crazy story
• 1:05:22
  about how he healed his stutter by doing like
• 1:05:26
  a way too big dose, et cetera. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 1:05:29
  But he said at one point they did a study where
• 1:05:33
  they investigated what is their experience of
• 1:05:37
  people with like plant medicine, like, you know,
• 1:05:39
  psilocybin specifically for his focus. And he
• 1:05:44
  shared a study where like... 30 % of people would
• 1:05:48
  describe their psychedelic experience as negative,
• 1:05:53
  like something they didn't enjoy or whatever
• 1:05:56
  negative is for them. But it was only like a
• 1:06:00
  one -time event. It was like, oh yeah, I did
• 1:06:02
  that. That was fucked up. I didn't like it. But
• 1:06:04
  there's no long -term effect on their well -being.
• 1:06:09
  Whereas 70 % said it was a life -changing experience
• 1:06:14
  that... they still carry with them today that
• 1:06:18
  impacted their life in a profound way. And when
• 1:06:22
  they talked about it, I just realized, well,
• 1:06:24
  the risk reward is a no brainer here, right?
• 1:06:29
  And I did some psilocybin before, but that was
• 1:06:33
  not in the... conscious way i i used it after
• 1:06:41
  um actually i with my girlfriend we used to do
• 1:06:44
  it like every other quarter like together just
• 1:06:47
  have our own like journey and then like talking
• 1:06:50
  together and integrating together and so that
• 1:06:52
  was really nice um but i think how how where
• 1:06:57
  So I'm like a learner, like I like to study and
• 1:07:00
  watch stuff and read stuff. Like I have these,
• 1:07:03
  there's one book here, which is Stalking the
• 1:07:06
  Wild Pendulum. I don't know if you know that's
• 1:07:08
  by Itzhak Bentov. That's a must. This for me
• 1:07:15
  is probably like the most probable explanation
• 1:07:22
  of how. how how this reality is constructed basically
• 1:07:27
  so it's it's a physics book but this guy is super
• 1:07:30
  funny there's a there's a video on youtube called
• 1:07:33
  from adam to cosmos where where you see an interview
• 1:07:35
  with him this guy and uh he died in the 70s and
• 1:07:40
  uh and then you have a lecture of his wife anyway
• 1:07:42
  i i was studying this like religiously i was
• 1:07:45
  like reading this watching stuff just trying
• 1:07:48
  to figure out like just going down that rabbit
• 1:07:50
  hole basically and kind of tying it to You know,
• 1:07:53
  my interest in more like Gnosticism or like just
• 1:07:58
  these more like older kind of like philosophy,
• 1:08:02
  consciousness ideas, et cetera. So I was like
• 1:08:05
  studying or paying attention to that. And then,
• 1:08:10
  you know, I had some trips before, which I think
• 1:08:15
  were all really great and helped me to kind of
• 1:08:17
  like understand that. uh yeah i am the observer
• 1:08:20
  and this is just a meat suit and i'm not my thoughts
• 1:08:23
  and uh and um yeah really uh i think also the
• 1:08:28
  the grounding part right like really seeing my
• 1:08:31
  place in the world like i had one trip where
• 1:08:33
  i just infinitely zoomed out and was just like
• 1:08:35
  what the fuck what the fuck and then when i realized
• 1:08:37
  what the fuck i just zoomed in infinitely basically
• 1:08:40
  and then that's when i realized okay i'm just
• 1:08:43
  on this sliver on this like mini tiny sliver,
• 1:08:47
  this plane of infinite planes up and infinite
• 1:08:50
  planes down where I actually experienced basically
• 1:08:54
  myself, right? Which is, I think, also a realization
• 1:08:59
  that a lot of people have. It's like you are
• 1:09:01
  the consciousness experiencing yourself forever
• 1:09:05
  in the now, right? Like it's just me. Everything
• 1:09:08
  here is me experiencing myself. Anyway, so I
• 1:09:12
  was kind of like building up to... What I didn't
• 1:09:15
  realize was I think my most profound experience
• 1:09:19
  to date, which was I think like last October
• 1:09:23
  last year, I did like a sound ceremony, like
• 1:09:28
  a sound meditation for like eight hours with
• 1:09:30
  like 45 people in a warehouse in Brooklyn with
• 1:09:32
  mushrooms. And that was when I experienced like
• 1:09:37
  just a total, total ego death. Really getting
• 1:09:43
  to, what I would say is like the origin of everything.
• 1:09:50
  Just like literally the ego death for me was
• 1:09:52
  like looking at my body and having it like compartmentalized
• 1:09:55
  and just shedding everything off one by one until
• 1:09:59
  there was like nothing left. And then it felt
• 1:10:01
  like I turned around and there was just like
• 1:10:03
  the infiniteness of everything basically. And
• 1:10:09
  that's when I realized that that was the source.
• 1:10:12
  So you can read about these things and gain the
• 1:10:16
  knowledge, basically the description that other
• 1:10:20
  people give to something that you actually have
• 1:10:23
  to experience. But when you experience it, you
• 1:10:26
  understand that that is what they are talking
• 1:10:28
  about. Does that make sense? It's just their
• 1:10:31
  interpretation, their way of, just like I'm trying
• 1:10:33
  to use words to explain my... experience right
• 1:10:37
  it is just an attempt at giving words to something
• 1:10:41
  that you cannot really describe when when you
• 1:10:44
  haven't experienced it um and so when i got there
• 1:10:49
  i i just realized okay so if i'm the universe
• 1:10:53
  manifested in a physical and the physical body
• 1:11:01
  is like the ultimate low entropy manifestation
• 1:11:04
  of the super infinite high entropy consciousness.
• 1:11:08
  And I am in this avatar meat suit experiencing
• 1:11:12
  this plane of a part of the infinite reality,
• 1:11:17
  basically, which we call the 3D realm reality.
• 1:11:25
  Then that universe is not only outside of me,
• 1:11:29
  it's also inside of me, right? And it's so funny
• 1:11:32
  because there's all these like sayings, Right.
• 1:11:36
  Like the Christ within or whatever, like the
• 1:11:38
  kingdom of heaven is in you. And like, there's
• 1:11:40
  like infinite amount of like descriptions of
• 1:11:43
  that. What I realized is like, okay, so everything
• 1:11:46
  is also in you. It's like outside. It's like
• 1:11:49
  you're, it's like you're, you're in, you're in
• 1:11:52
  yourself. I don't know. So that was really an
• 1:11:58
  experience where I was taught what I was studying.
• 1:12:04
  Basically. So it was like, so, so when we entered
• 1:12:07
  this, this trip, I like met my six -year -old
• 1:12:11
  self and he was like, is there anything, is there
• 1:12:15
  anything you want to talk about or something?
• 1:12:17
  You know, like he was like checking in with like
• 1:12:19
  my child, like, is there anything from your child
• 1:12:22
  that you still need to fix or whatever? Like,
• 1:12:26
  I think that these experiences bring you whatever
• 1:12:29
  you're ready for. Right. And sometimes it's difficult.
• 1:12:32
  And sometimes it's actually entertaining or educating
• 1:12:36
  or, you know, however you want to describe it.
• 1:12:38
  So I felt like he was like checking in with me
• 1:12:40
  and I was like, no, I'm good. And he was like,
• 1:12:42
  do you want to see what you've been studying?
• 1:12:46
  I'm like, yeah. He's like, okay. And then that's
• 1:12:48
  where we went. And at one point during this meditation
• 1:12:51
  was like guided, you know, someone else was guiding
• 1:12:56
  it and they were talking about. certain breath
• 1:13:00
  breath work like breathing in holding breathing
• 1:13:02
  out whatever and at one point i felt like when
• 1:13:07
  i was breathing in i was like breathing like
• 1:13:09
  downloading information and when i was holding
• 1:13:11
  holding my breath i was like processing the information
• 1:13:15
  but the information wasn't about myself it was
• 1:13:18
  about like how the fuck this works like how the
• 1:13:21
  thing i was doing actually worked it was like
• 1:13:24
  like a real inception experience and then when
• 1:13:28
  i breathed out it felt like I gave it back again.
• 1:13:31
  So I really believe that if you believe that
• 1:13:34
  there's like this infinite consciousness, right?
• 1:13:36
  Like all the information that ever existed and
• 1:13:39
  will exist already, it already exists in this
• 1:13:42
  bigger field, right? So if you have a creative
• 1:13:45
  idea, you download a package of certain information
• 1:13:48
  and it's up to you or, you know, your ego or
• 1:13:52
  wherever you're at to decide. Do I think this
• 1:13:56
  is interesting enough? But it doesn't mean the
• 1:13:57
  idea isn't true because it's constructed of all
• 1:14:00
  the information that ever is. But when I realized
• 1:14:03
  that, it was like, okay, so I can download whatever
• 1:14:04
  exists. I can use that information. I can then
• 1:14:08
  give it back. And then it taught me like, no,
• 1:14:11
  it's also in you. So then I kept on breathing,
• 1:14:15
  but then I... Took it from my inside. Does that
• 1:14:19
  make sense? Like, I don't know. It felt, at first
• 1:14:21
  it felt like I was taking it from the outside,
• 1:14:23
  from let's say the universe outside of me. But
• 1:14:26
  then when I realized, that's also funny, it's
• 1:14:28
  like universe, right? That it's like in you,
• 1:14:31
  I started getting the information from inside
• 1:14:33
  to the point where I was like processing it.
• 1:14:36
  And then I realized, holy shit, like this is,
• 1:14:38
  I'm doing what the theory is saying. But I'm
• 1:14:44
  actually moving through it. And then I could
• 1:14:46
  actually play with it. It's like getting it from
• 1:14:48
  outside of me or getting it from inside. It's
• 1:14:50
  just all the same thing. And I am in the middle
• 1:14:54
  just traveling between these places, incarnations.
• 1:15:00
  I don't even know what the definition would be.
• 1:15:03
  But I think that was my most profound experience
• 1:15:07
  where... kind of like all these previous experiences
• 1:15:11
  plus like just my interest in the studying kind
• 1:15:15
  of like came together to this point where it
• 1:15:18
  was just really shown to me and i really believe
• 1:15:21
  that this was also the point where i was like
• 1:15:23
  ready to actually understand everything that
• 1:15:28
  would be shown to me basically And of course,
• 1:15:35
  it's my experience of that, which is not necessarily
• 1:15:37
  your experience of that. But I think the very
• 1:15:39
  interesting part with psychedelics and stuff
• 1:15:41
  is that there's a lot of things that a lot of
• 1:15:44
  the same things that people experience. So there's
• 1:15:46
  also some sort of shared truth in there. So I
• 1:15:52
  wonder what you think of what I say, but it's
• 1:15:54
  like, okay, you know, that exists, you know,
• 1:15:57
  I mean, I'm here. I need water. I need food to,
• 1:16:00
  you know, I need to do things for this body and
• 1:16:02
  whatnot. I have things to do here. Yeah. How
• 1:16:07
  do you, how do you integrate that? What do you
• 1:16:09
  do? Like, how does that, how does that work?
• 1:16:11
  And I think, well, it took me to be 38 to get
• 1:16:16
  to that point to realize, whoa, there is this.
• 1:16:20
  I think there's a discussion around, is that
• 1:16:22
  the duality or basically the non -duality because
• 1:16:24
  it's, it's, it's what you are. But I think it
• 1:16:28
  really relieved me of like, I don't know, fear
• 1:16:31
  of dying and stuff like that. Like, I don't,
• 1:16:33
  you know, it would be a pity if I died tomorrow,
• 1:16:35
  but I don't really, it's okay. You know, so something
• 1:16:38
  like, so, so there are these little things, well,
• 1:16:41
  maybe that's quite big, but it's, I still kind
• 1:16:43
  of struggle or want to learn or figure out how
• 1:16:48
  do I. How do I not lose myself fully in this
• 1:16:52
  physical experience, but also not in this spiritual
• 1:16:55
  experience? Because the whole point is the integration
• 1:16:58
  in this now, right? And whatever happens after
• 1:17:02
  you die happens after you die, whatever we'll
• 1:17:04
  see, right? But I think this experience is about
• 1:17:08
  the unification of both these things that you
• 1:17:16
  are, basically. So I don't know if that was an
• 1:17:19
  answer. No, I think you touched on something
• 1:17:24
  that I really wanted to get to where there's
• 1:17:27
  these amazing parallels between Bitcoin and plant
• 1:17:30
  medicines where when you're like, you don't understand
• 1:17:34
  what the money is and you're just living in the
• 1:17:36
  fiat system. It's like, you can't see what's
• 1:17:39
  around you. You're just a fish in water. And
• 1:17:41
  then the Bitcoin gives you this beautiful perspective,
• 1:17:44
  this pedestal to stand on, to actually witness
• 1:17:46
  what that thing is. So then you can make different
• 1:17:50
  choices. And I think we get so caught up in the
• 1:17:55
  human experience and not even the human experience
• 1:18:00
  in its like most natural form, but the human
• 1:18:03
  experience in this weird manifestation of like.
• 1:18:07
  all the imprints of society and culture and everything
• 1:18:09
  on us of what we should be and how we should
• 1:18:11
  live and how we you know are meant to act when
• 1:18:15
  in reality we don't make our own choices a lot
• 1:18:18
  of the time and working with these plant medicines
• 1:18:21
  it's very similar where you get this other pedestal
• 1:18:23
  to stand on to really reflect and witness like
• 1:18:28
  what your life is and what it means and like
• 1:18:30
  what you want to create with it you know and
• 1:18:34
  then also that glimpse behind the curtain again
• 1:18:37
  of this like spirit world you know that's also
• 1:18:42
  right next to us and it's so easy to well you
• 1:18:49
  talk about belief you know like do i do i believe
• 1:18:53
  in the spirit world and it's like no i know it
• 1:18:57
  it's like there's nothing to believe in because
• 1:19:01
  i've like been there and it's real i saw this
• 1:19:07
  tiktok of a like an old jamaican guy that said
• 1:19:10
  like you only believe in things you don't think
• 1:19:13
  are true ah i mean the word belief has lie in
• 1:19:17
  it oh wow yeah there's lying in there yeah exactly
• 1:19:22
  well i think etymology like you mentioned is
• 1:19:24
  extremely important for sure yeah that's something
• 1:19:27
  i think about all the time is like etymology
• 1:19:29
  because We use these words to communicate and
• 1:19:33
  we're just doing our best to communicate. But
• 1:19:35
  these words carry so much programming with them
• 1:19:37
  that we don't actually understand what we're
• 1:19:39
  saying. And then also how the words we say affect
• 1:19:42
  our way of viewing the situations. You know,
• 1:19:46
  it's like, oh, I have, you know, a partner and
• 1:19:49
  I have pets. I'm about to have a child. I have
• 1:19:52
  so much responsibility, right? But like responsibility,
• 1:19:56
  it's your ability to respond. You respond in
• 1:20:01
  the present moment. So it's like, how equipped
• 1:20:04
  are you to deal with what's in front of you?
• 1:20:06
  Not, can you carry this boulder for the next
• 1:20:09
  50 years? And two things to tie that, what you
• 1:20:14
  just said back to what we talked about before.
• 1:20:17
  That radical acceptance is extremely difficult,
• 1:20:22
  I think. It's something that sometimes I have,
• 1:20:25
  and sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm also lost in.
• 1:20:28
  in being the physical me, right? Where I'm like
• 1:20:32
  complaining and this or that or like worrying
• 1:20:34
  or whatever. But that is the whole part of the
• 1:20:37
  cadence, I think. You need to get there to understand
• 1:20:41
  this is also there and that this is like the
• 1:20:44
  equilibrium if you can integrate, right? And
• 1:20:48
  that's also where all these, the whole Icarus
• 1:20:50
  myth is about not going too high or you will
• 1:20:53
  fall, right? It's all about finding like the
• 1:20:55
  middle thing. And so this is... why I love all
• 1:20:58
  this old stuff in etymology is like, there are
• 1:21:01
  truths hidden in how, in the words we use or
• 1:21:05
  the stories people tell, or else they wouldn't
• 1:21:08
  exist. Like there wouldn't be any value to tell
• 1:21:12
  these things to other people if they weren't
• 1:21:14
  true. Like if you have a child, you tell them
• 1:21:17
  the things that you think are true. And if the
• 1:21:21
  rest of the society or, you know, whatever, you
• 1:21:26
  know, in which you're in, doesn't follow that,
• 1:21:29
  then that idea of something will die. Does that
• 1:21:33
  make sense? Something that still buries truth
• 1:21:38
  2 ,000 years later, where people are like, if
• 1:21:42
  I read that, it actually makes a lot of sense.
• 1:21:45
  That is just truth. Because enough people on
• 1:21:50
  a bigger scale than we can probably imagine agreed
• 1:21:53
  that this is something they still have to tell
• 1:21:55
  other people. So, like you said, it's the absolute
• 1:22:02
  acceptance of the fact that you are here and
• 1:22:09
  you have no clue how the fuck this works. And
• 1:22:12
  your whole life is about struggling with that
• 1:22:16
  basically up and down. I think the getting humbled
• 1:22:21
  part or the humility part is getting... to that
• 1:22:25
  point where you can accept that or like the hunter
• 1:22:32
  -gatherers did. This is why I think it's always
• 1:22:34
  so interesting and not so difficult to understand,
• 1:22:37
  but it's difficult to do. You have to give yourself
• 1:22:39
  to the bigger thing. You have to accept that
• 1:22:42
  there is something bigger that you can never
• 1:22:45
  understand, that you are part of, that you are
• 1:22:47
  perhaps a product of, but that you also are at
• 1:22:51
  the same time. Like, what the fuck? And I think
• 1:22:55
  that struggle and, well, maybe the enjoyment
• 1:23:00
  or the curiosity around what that brings, I think
• 1:23:04
  kind of packaging it like that for me is what
• 1:23:09
  kind of helps me to deal with that knowing that
• 1:23:12
  you just mentioned, right? Like the feeling I
• 1:23:15
  had like, okay, what do I do with this knowledge?
• 1:23:17
  Well, you just continue. And it's basically a
• 1:23:21
  tool for you to understand if you're like fully
• 1:23:25
  down the physical life drain and you're like,
• 1:23:30
  fuck, and I'm down and out and this and that
• 1:23:32
  is bad and whatever, I'm depressed or whatever.
• 1:23:35
  If you just think about the fact that there's
• 1:23:37
  like an infinite reality and you are not even
• 1:23:42
  a microbe on that scale, then it doesn't really
• 1:23:49
  matter. where you're at. And I think you also
• 1:23:55
  get a better opportunity to deal with the polarity
• 1:23:59
  of life, you know, because there's a perspective
• 1:24:03
  outside of you. Exactly. Right. It's like every
• 1:24:07
  moment is a test or a celebration. and it's like
• 1:24:10
  know them both and live them fully right it's
• 1:24:13
  like when the days are a 10 out of 10 like just
• 1:24:17
  fully take it in for how good it is when you
• 1:24:20
  just get hit by just a massive curveball and
• 1:24:24
  like it gets hard that's what you learn You know,
• 1:24:30
  and it's always it's so easy to be in the shit
• 1:24:32
  and be like, this is fucked. But every time I've
• 1:24:36
  reached like a rock bottom of sorts, it's been
• 1:24:39
  the opportunity to make great changes because
• 1:24:42
  I was humbled. Like I made incorrect turns at
• 1:24:47
  certain points or I didn't see certain information
• 1:24:50
  coming towards me or I didn't listen to my intuition,
• 1:24:53
  my intuition. And then like I was served up being
• 1:24:57
  like, you missed it. You know, learn the lesson.
• 1:25:01
  I made these mistakes. I can change in these
• 1:25:03
  ways. And then you continue forward. So it's
• 1:25:05
  like when the hard comes, it's actually like,
• 1:25:07
  oh, thank you. You know, when the good days are
• 1:25:11
  there, it's also like, thank you. But the polarity
• 1:25:15
  is everywhere. Like you cannot be motivated to
• 1:25:18
  create if there's not something that is a problem
• 1:25:23
  that you're creating for. Like the reason that
• 1:25:26
  you want to create is because there is a negative
• 1:25:30
  space. You miss something or you want something
• 1:25:32
  or there is an actual fucking problem. Like there
• 1:25:35
  is an emptiness, whether that's a desire or something
• 1:25:40
  physical or factual, whether it doesn't really
• 1:25:42
  matter, but there's an emptiness that you need
• 1:25:43
  to create for. That could also be your urge to
• 1:25:48
  do something or whatever, but there is no...
• 1:25:51
  the, the, the, the, the positive motivation comes
• 1:25:55
  from a negative opportunity. There's no growth
• 1:25:58
  without resistance or like something to struggle
• 1:26:02
  against. Yes. So if everything goes too easy,
• 1:26:06
  if everything goes too easy, get ready. Right.
• 1:26:10
  Because something is going to like, like nothing
• 1:26:13
  is easy. That's the whole point is that nothing
• 1:26:15
  is easy because there's the, the fight between
• 1:26:18
  positive and negative literally within the. atoms
• 1:26:21
  is what creates the existence. And that is it
• 1:26:25
  within the atoms. It's like a fractal on any
• 1:26:28
  level where the, the tension between positive
• 1:26:32
  and negative has to occur before whatever you're
• 1:26:38
  creating or doing can actually manifest in the
• 1:26:41
  way that, that like you set out to. Does that
• 1:26:45
  make sense? Like it is. Today I was talking,
• 1:26:49
  it's so funny. Like I believe in these things.
• 1:26:51
  I was talking to my good friend. He is also into
• 1:26:55
  Bitcoin. So that's one of my good like real life
• 1:26:57
  friends. And he's also into real estate, whatever.
• 1:27:00
  He did a bid on a house like six weeks ago. He
• 1:27:05
  was texting me. He said, I saw this house was
• 1:27:08
  on auction. Like no one was really bidding for
• 1:27:09
  it. And I bid like a number with 888. It was
• 1:27:13
  like 888, 888, 888 or something. And then he
• 1:27:18
  said, guess what? And he said, I got it. And
• 1:27:21
  I was like, what? It's like way under market
• 1:27:23
  price, right? So he was like, how does this?
• 1:27:26
  Okay, well, apparently this was, you know, this
• 1:27:29
  is for me. You know, I did it as a joke. This
• 1:27:31
  is for me. So now he's trying to fix it. He wants
• 1:27:35
  to do stuff with Bitcoin, have that as a mortgage,
• 1:27:38
  whatever. And it's all going easy. Like he found
• 1:27:42
  a bank that wants to use his Bitcoin, his collateral
• 1:27:44
  and blah, blah, blah. So he's like, well, what
• 1:27:45
  the fuck? I'm actually doing this. I'm doing
• 1:27:47
  it. I'm doing it. It's going to happen. It's
• 1:27:49
  going to happen. And then today he says, I have
• 1:27:52
  fucking issues with the bank. Now they want to
• 1:27:54
  do a this and a that and I have to form this
• 1:27:56
  and a that. And so I had to do this, but I kind
• 1:27:59
  of cheated. And now it's even worse. And I was
• 1:28:02
  like, it's so funny. It's so funny. And this
• 1:28:04
  is actually what we're talking about. So I feel
• 1:28:06
  that this is something we need to share because
• 1:28:08
  it's aligned. You and I bring this up and I actually
• 1:28:11
  had a conversation about this. He said, do you
• 1:28:14
  think it's because I tried to cheat a bit? And
• 1:28:17
  I said, yeah, I think so, right? Because when
• 1:28:19
  you set out your intention, his intention with
• 1:28:23
  the jokingly aligning with the universe without
• 1:28:25
  any expectation actually gave him something.
• 1:28:29
  And now he kind of squandered it because he stopped
• 1:28:33
  aligning with it. Because now he has expectations.
• 1:28:36
  He thought about, I want to live there. This
• 1:28:38
  is what it's going to look like. I'm going to
• 1:28:39
  build this. There's all these things that are
• 1:28:43
  part of the psyche of also the human physical
• 1:28:47
  experience, right? Like all the... all the seven
• 1:28:52
  sins or the commandments, they are all about
• 1:28:53
  physical things, right? Like things that you
• 1:28:55
  would want as your ego. And this is that like,
• 1:28:58
  so he kind of disturbed the alignment he started
• 1:29:03
  himself. And now the friction comes up because
• 1:29:08
  he didn't follow his own alignment. And so we
• 1:29:11
  were talking about, yeah, this is just part of
• 1:29:13
  it. Like if it's too easy. you can make sure
• 1:29:17
  something is going to happen, which gives you
• 1:29:19
  the resistance that you need to accept. Like
• 1:29:22
  when you talk about the psychedelic experience,
• 1:29:27
  if whatever you need comes to you, the only thing
• 1:29:32
  you can do and need to do is to accept it, right?
• 1:29:36
  You need to accept the resistance. And that is
• 1:29:39
  what a lot of people cannot do is what we talked
• 1:29:41
  about with Bitcoin or fiat money or whatever.
• 1:29:44
  It's like, The resistance is the whole signal.
• 1:29:48
  The resistance is the signal of something that
• 1:29:50
  you need to learn. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:29:58
  It's a crazy experience. Like, and like you were
• 1:30:01
  saying, it's almost like the medicines, they
• 1:30:04
  give you extra tools for your toolkit of how
• 1:30:08
  you perceive. And it's like, oh, I can choose
• 1:30:10
  to look at it from this perspective, all this
• 1:30:13
  perspective, all this perspective. all true and
• 1:30:17
  all true all true and it's like the choice is
• 1:30:19
  yours you know it's all choice and for me that's
• 1:30:24
  like the biggest thing right like when we talk
• 1:30:26
  about freedom and sovereignty you know like especially
• 1:30:30
  in the bitcoin space it's a lot about like financial
• 1:30:33
  freedom and like financial sovereignty but like
• 1:30:36
  the expansion out into like sovereignty it's
• 1:30:39
  like to be free And it's like really comes down
• 1:30:43
  to like your, your ability to make choices, you
• 1:30:46
  know, like now I get to make different choices.
• 1:30:49
  And from this perspective, I can make this choice,
• 1:30:51
  you know? And like, that's what I'm solving for
• 1:30:54
  in my life. You know, Bitcoin is a tool in my
• 1:30:57
  toolkit for solving how to create more choice.
• 1:31:00
  One. Yeah. One. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I say this
• 1:31:07
  a lot. It's not about, again, how much Bitcoin
• 1:31:10
  you have. It's about understanding that if you
• 1:31:13
  take this conscious choice, there are an infinite
• 1:31:15
  amount of choices you can also consciously make.
• 1:31:19
  And everyone else who you've outsourced a lot
• 1:31:23
  of choices to before and maybe sometimes need
• 1:31:27
  to in the physical world. i mean i'm not a doctor
• 1:31:31
  or whatever right like sometimes i need someone
• 1:31:34
  who knows something i don't but being aware of
• 1:31:39
  the fact that you're doing that and and making
• 1:31:42
  the conscious decision if you want to or not
• 1:31:44
  i think is what what you are saying that experiencing
• 1:31:49
  that is what the freedom is it's not about the
• 1:31:51
  amount of money in that sense it's about understanding
• 1:31:55
  that Only you can make that choice and that whatever
• 1:32:00
  choice you make in moment A, which has effect
• 1:32:04
  B, is in the past, right? Like if there's effect
• 1:32:08
  B, you have to make choice C and so on. It's
• 1:32:14
  like a chain. So I think when you can get to
• 1:32:19
  a point, and I'm not there, and I think this
• 1:32:22
  is hard, where you can just... Be conscious all
• 1:32:26
  the time about how you... It's also so funny,
• 1:32:29
  right? When people say like, oh, you're the creator
• 1:32:30
  of your own universe. It sounds so woo -woo,
• 1:32:33
  right? It sounds so vague and abstract. But that's
• 1:32:36
  literally, I think, what we're talking about.
• 1:32:38
  It's like, no, it's literally just you. Like
• 1:32:41
  not doing anything is also a choice. If that
• 1:32:44
  is your choice, your conscious choice, okay.
• 1:32:51
  That is the whole point of being the creator
• 1:32:52
  of your universe, right? It's like me, everything.
• 1:32:58
  Even when someone does something negative to
• 1:33:01
  me, it's my choice as to how I deal with that.
• 1:33:04
  If I let that get to me or make me go like off
• 1:33:08
  center or get to my ego, that's all eventually
• 1:33:11
  just my choice. Even though... if you ask a hundred
• 1:33:17
  people was that person a dick to you and they
• 1:33:19
  all say yes then still it's your choice how you
• 1:33:22
  deal deal with that or how you let that get to
• 1:33:25
  you i love this also kind of like a corny book
• 1:33:28
  right like uh the subtle art of not giving a
• 1:33:30
  fuck did you read that or not no i mean basically
• 1:33:37
  what i just said i think is the core of the book
• 1:33:39
  it's like it's just you and he gives like the
• 1:33:42
  Most extreme example is like when you have a
• 1:33:45
  child and your child dies, you can like mourn,
• 1:33:48
  like everyone mourns, there's a mourning. But
• 1:33:54
  how you let that event define the rest of your
• 1:33:57
  life is all up to you, right? So there's a factual
• 1:34:04
  event that is the saddest of saddest, the most
• 1:34:07
  horrible thing that can happen. But still, you
• 1:34:11
  have a choice. You are the creator of everything
• 1:34:14
  that comes after that. And I think it is a brutal
• 1:34:19
  example, but it's just very clear because it's
• 1:34:21
  just true. Even when someone killed your child
• 1:34:26
  or whatever, like hit him with a car or whatever,
• 1:34:29
  that's how he talks about it. But that is what
• 1:34:32
  comes also with... with this reality that there's
• 1:34:36
  all these bad things that happen in this reality
• 1:34:38
  too and that is just yeah i mean that it it happens
• 1:34:43
  so it's not to uh talk down on certain emotions
• 1:34:48
  and love and whatever everything that is in the
• 1:34:51
  in the in the morning and remembrance part it's
• 1:34:54
  about okay that happened and now what like what
• 1:34:58
  Do you let your life be defined by that? In what
• 1:35:02
  way? That is all your choice. No one else outside
• 1:35:05
  of you and your experience, your ability to do
• 1:35:10
  something with that, I think is the best example
• 1:35:14
  I've ever read about that you are the creator
• 1:35:17
  of your universe. It's literally that. It's not
• 1:35:20
  like manifesting a million dollars in my hand.
• 1:35:22
  It's about how do I ingest and process whatever.
• 1:35:28
  the experience is throwing at me whatever that
• 1:35:31
  is yeah so many points i could jump off there
• 1:35:36
  so funny um i just one thing that that when you're
• 1:35:40
  explaining those stories like it's so true and
• 1:35:42
  although i don't like said guru i like you know
• 1:35:45
  anyone who is talking about depopulating the
• 1:35:48
  world i'm instantly like major discernment you
• 1:35:51
  know like a bit of a witch um but he says uh
• 1:35:56
  if someone came up to you in another language
• 1:35:58
  and just like cussed you out and you didn't understand
• 1:36:02
  any of it, you wouldn't even react really. No,
• 1:36:07
  that's a good point. That's a very good one.
• 1:36:10
  You know what? You wouldn't even react. So it's
• 1:36:12
  like, it's just like their words are fucking
• 1:36:15
  with you, you know? Yeah. And yeah, like you
• 1:36:19
  were saying, it's like my whole philosophy in
• 1:36:21
  life is just build the dream. Your life depends
• 1:36:24
  on it. your life depends on it you know what
• 1:36:27
  i mean like how many people are sitting with
• 1:36:30
  like an idea that like i would love to do this
• 1:36:32
  or i'd love to build this thing you know or i'd
• 1:36:35
  love to like move countries or like change my
• 1:36:36
  situation and then you're just sitting like you
• 1:36:40
  said the choice of not choosing or the choice
• 1:36:42
  of just not doing you know and it's like take
• 1:36:46
  time to really reflect on like what are those
• 1:36:49
  invisible invisible leashes that are around you
• 1:36:53
  that is stopping you making those choices. You
• 1:36:56
  only get one life, you know? And that's another
• 1:36:58
  thing that's beautiful about plant medicines
• 1:37:00
  is they're almost like a near -death experience,
• 1:37:03
  you know? So you actually get to see how valuable
• 1:37:08
  life is and how much you want to do it and also
• 1:37:11
  how fleeting it is, you know? Like, I'm still
• 1:37:14
  a relatively young man. I'm like 28 years old,
• 1:37:18
  you know? But like, I already feel like... life's
• 1:37:22
  getting away from me a little bit like i really
• 1:37:24
  gotta like stay present and be here for this
• 1:37:26
  thing you know i think um this is one of like
• 1:37:34
  the insights i had from uh a journey is is is
• 1:37:39
  really aligned with what you said it's you have
• 1:37:41
  to we're talking about how how do you take on
• 1:37:45
  life Or something, right? Like, how do you make
• 1:37:47
  sense of this? Whatever this is, again, for you,
• 1:37:50
  right? It's just your experience. The alternative
• 1:37:54
  is like death. It's like, if you... I just realized,
• 1:38:00
  I just had this whole trip about death. And the
• 1:38:02
  funny thing, by the way, when I do that with
• 1:38:03
  my girlfriend, that journey, we have like totally
• 1:38:08
  separate experience, obviously. But it was both
• 1:38:10
  around death. That one time, which... I thought
• 1:38:14
  was super interesting. The medicine knows. Yeah.
• 1:38:18
  So she was like, well, I met death. I gave it
• 1:38:20
  a hand. I'm not afraid to die. But I was like,
• 1:38:22
  no, I don't want to. And then I went back. I
• 1:38:24
  was like, whoa, okay. Well, do you want to? So
• 1:38:26
  I told her, do you want to hear what I thought
• 1:38:28
  about? So I saw like the world as like an ant
• 1:38:32
  colony. Whereas like all these people are doing
• 1:38:35
  things. We're all doing things. Like the ants
• 1:38:36
  in the ant colony are doing things, right? And
• 1:38:39
  you have worker ants and you have, you know.
• 1:38:42
  leader ants and you have army ants or, you know,
• 1:38:45
  whatever. Central bank queen. Yeah. Yeah. So
• 1:38:49
  I was thinking, I was like, I was like looking
• 1:38:51
  at the world and I was like thinking about, okay,
• 1:38:54
  you know, the, the, the death spiral of the ants,
• 1:38:56
  you know, that sometimes when they. it's like
• 1:38:59
  a psychotic something with ants and they start
• 1:39:01
  walking in circles. Do you notice or not? There's
• 1:39:03
  like this thing, like some ants fall over because
• 1:39:05
  they die, et cetera. I was thinking about that.
• 1:39:07
  Like, okay, what if I die? Well, there's, there's
• 1:39:09
  a certain amount of people that are sad that
• 1:39:11
  I'm gone and my body is gone, but it's just going
• 1:39:13
  to continue. Like there's a whole fucking ant
• 1:39:15
  thing. It's just gonna, it's just gonna continue.
• 1:39:17
  I'm irrelevant. You can be here or, and that's
• 1:39:22
  what I realized. You can decide to check out,
• 1:39:24
  right? You can just be like, okay, that's it.
• 1:39:27
  I'll kill myself. And then, you know, it's over
• 1:39:30
  with. But if there's like a super tiny thought
• 1:39:33
  that comes after that thought of, you know, I'll
• 1:39:37
  just check out. That's like, nah, I don't want
• 1:39:39
  to die. The consequence of that is humongous.
• 1:39:43
  It's like, okay, if you don't want to die, you
• 1:39:46
  have to take on everything that comes with this
• 1:39:48
  experience. There is no, like, that is the, like,
• 1:39:52
  almost source binary for me. It's like, it's
• 1:39:55
  either this or that. Well, I think there's something
• 1:39:59
  really beautiful just to be said about like the
• 1:40:03
  enduring human spirit too, where like everyone
• 1:40:06
  has the exit door available at all times. Right.
• 1:40:10
  But the human spirit is like, and people go through
• 1:40:15
  hard stuff in this life, you know, and they continue
• 1:40:19
  to endure because they think that. someday in
• 1:40:24
  the future things might be better god bless even
• 1:40:29
  and even if it's not you're striving towards
• 1:40:34
  something you know like if that isn't like just
• 1:40:38
  even a sign and like life is just net good you
• 1:40:43
  know otherwise i think we'd see like a 50 50
• 1:40:47
  like suicide rate you know That's a good point.
• 1:40:53
  Yes, that's a good point. That's a very, very
• 1:40:56
  good point. And so that is also why... Funny,
• 1:41:01
  that's an amazing point. Yeah, it's like there
• 1:41:05
  is no other choice. And like you said, this was
• 1:41:08
  another journey of me. I saw the whole aura of
• 1:41:12
  the trees and I saw the energy flowing in the
• 1:41:15
  air between the trees and me and the plants and
• 1:41:17
  all those things. And then I realized, well,
• 1:41:19
  if... if if we are just energy and like you're
• 1:41:24
  a spirit right you're a spiritual being having
• 1:41:26
  a physical experience all the spirits are around
• 1:41:30
  us like all the all the all the spirits are constantly
• 1:41:33
  around us and that's when i thought like i saw
• 1:41:37
  like shapes in the trees and like the leaves
• 1:41:39
  i felt like what if they're all there just watching
• 1:41:41
  like what is this guy doing here they are What
• 1:41:45
  is he making of this little space -time experience?
• 1:41:49
  What is he doing? And well, see, and this is
• 1:41:53
  what I think is funny. You say they are, this
• 1:41:56
  was my experience and you recognize it, right?
• 1:41:58
  And that is what really triggered me with psychedelics
• 1:42:01
  and stuff is this. Like, how do you affirm or
• 1:42:06
  have a recognition of what I experienced here?
• 1:42:11
  Because there is a share, there is something
• 1:42:13
  there. That is some sort of truth. Yeah. A hundred
• 1:42:18
  percent. I mean, I have like had undeniable interactions
• 1:42:23
  with plant spirits. You know, it's like nature
• 1:42:27
  is not some random backdrop. It is just as alive
• 1:42:31
  as we are, you know, especially in the spiritual
• 1:42:34
  world. Yeah. Okay. Let's kind of, I'm going to
• 1:42:40
  kind of move us towards. Towards the return.
• 1:42:43
  Okay. So life, it seemingly gets more complex
• 1:42:50
  as time goes on. But for some reason, all the
• 1:42:54
  complexity that I encounter pushes towards simplicity.
• 1:42:58
  And I asked my soon to be wife, you know, what,
• 1:43:03
  what do you want to do in this life? And she
• 1:43:07
  just said, I want to be a mother. Do you think
• 1:43:11
  the modern society is so inundated with so much
• 1:43:16
  shit that like we've forgotten that the answer
• 1:43:20
  of life and like what to do with life can actually
• 1:43:23
  just be so simple? I love that we get here because
• 1:43:28
  this is what I told you before we started recording.
• 1:43:30
  I watched your first video when it had like 19
• 1:43:32
  views and I was like, I got to talk to this guy
• 1:43:34
  because... He sees it, you see it in the same
• 1:43:37
  way. And we got there now by talking for two
• 1:43:40
  hours, right? No, but that's great. I think,
• 1:43:43
  because I want to connect it back to your question.
• 1:43:46
  It's like, okay, if everything around me is basically
• 1:43:52
  total fucking chaos, because everyone alive is
• 1:43:56
  so far away from all these people that came before
• 1:43:59
  us that were actually like super, super aligned
• 1:44:02
  with this experience. literally embodied the
• 1:44:06
  experience. I love that word, embodied. Like
• 1:44:09
  they embodied it. Okay, that is apparently what
• 1:44:12
  I'm doing. I'm gonna do it fully. I'm gonna live
• 1:44:16
  this bodily experience fully, right? Well, we
• 1:44:20
  are super far away from that. And I think that
• 1:44:23
  is what your question is about. But then connecting
• 1:44:25
  it back to Bitcoin. In all this chaos, how do
• 1:44:29
  I anchor myself? How do I anchor myself to just
• 1:44:33
  be? still for a second, to look at whatever's
• 1:44:39
  happening in an ever -accelerating, more ephemeral
• 1:44:42
  way and create a direction. And I think we can
• 1:44:53
  go deeper into Bitcoin now, but for me, that
• 1:44:55
  is Bitcoin because, like I said, the... The information
• 1:45:01
  in Bitcoin, the immutable information that is
• 1:45:03
  stored in Bitcoin is an absolute truth. For me
• 1:45:08
  and for you, exactly the same, like I just said.
• 1:45:10
  So even whatever you think of Bitcoin, if you
• 1:45:13
  think it sucks, like that is not even my opinion,
• 1:45:16
  what I just said. Like the data you download
• 1:45:20
  is the exact same data that you download. And,
• 1:45:23
  you know, like your code, your... the code that
• 1:45:29
  you can type in to verify, et cetera, gets the
• 1:45:32
  same result as you get. So there is no other
• 1:45:38
  party or there are no other parties. There is
• 1:45:40
  nothing in between you and the truth that you
• 1:45:43
  can verify for yourself. And that doesn't exist
• 1:45:47
  in today's world. Aside from perhaps the somewhat
• 1:45:53
  shared truth or experience of the... the spiritual
• 1:45:57
  realm that we talk about. But even that is more
• 1:46:00
  dispersed than the Bitcoin truth. So I think
• 1:46:07
  like Bitcoin anchors us in this physical reality.
• 1:46:14
  And like we talked about in the beginning, gives
• 1:46:17
  you time and space to figure out, okay, what
• 1:46:20
  is this? What do I want? How do I go there? How
• 1:46:23
  do I... How do I manage whatever comes at me?
• 1:46:26
  And your question about children or just following
• 1:46:32
  basically the kind of like biological programming.
• 1:46:40
  This is also what I realized when I had this
• 1:46:42
  ego death experience, this idea of, okay, if
• 1:46:47
  what you are, if what you truly are is a spiritual
• 1:46:51
  being having a physical experience, right? That
• 1:46:54
  you are a part of the universe and I am a part
• 1:46:57
  of the universe. This is what this Thomas Campbell
• 1:46:59
  guy says, right? You are an individuated unit
• 1:47:02
  of consciousness is what he calls it. But we
• 1:47:05
  come from the same source, but we are incarnated
• 1:47:10
  in a different body. So during this trip, when
• 1:47:15
  I was like downloading and processing, I was
• 1:47:17
  realizing, okay, so if... The physical reality
• 1:47:21
  is a manifestation of, you know, the eternal
• 1:47:25
  everything, the consciousness. The highest form
• 1:47:29
  of manifestation, the most complex form of manifestation
• 1:47:31
  is a human body. Because a human body is aware
• 1:47:37
  of itself, right? So rocks have consciousness
• 1:47:40
  and elephants and frogs and sunflowers, there's
• 1:47:44
  consciousness in them, but they're not aware
• 1:47:46
  of it too. We're aware of it in different degrees.
• 1:47:50
  Like the rock doesn't know it's conscious. The
• 1:47:54
  flowers, for example, or the plants, we already
• 1:47:58
  know that they know when you are coming home.
• 1:48:01
  Like there's people that do research to that,
• 1:48:03
  right? Like the plants can feel when you are
• 1:48:06
  there. What the fuck, right? From two kilometers
• 1:48:09
  away, your house plants will react to you coming
• 1:48:12
  home from two kilometers away. Like that is a
• 1:48:14
  fact. Okay. Elephants mourn the death of baby
• 1:48:19
  elephants, right? They come back to the, like
• 1:48:22
  they, you know, dolphins are more intelligent.
• 1:48:25
  And then you have humans, right? So the highest
• 1:48:28
  form, well, this is how my mind went. I wonder
• 1:48:31
  what you, well, not my mind. This is what I saw.
• 1:48:34
  I wonder what you think. But like the highest
• 1:48:36
  form of the eternal consciousness, i .e. love,
• 1:48:41
  the highest manifestation of love is another
• 1:48:43
  human. Because. The highest, the most complex
• 1:48:47
  form of manifestation is another human, right?
• 1:48:50
  So you manifesting that again is like the highest
• 1:48:55
  thing that you can do in this human physical
• 1:48:57
  experience. So I just realized that is the goal.
• 1:49:04
  Like the highest thing that you can do is to
• 1:49:07
  make another human. And that has like nothing.
• 1:49:11
  It just felt really logical to me to just. get
• 1:49:15
  to that point. Like it would be basically the
• 1:49:18
  ultimate respect for your own gift. Yeah. If
• 1:49:22
  nowadays you see that there are people that don't
• 1:49:28
  follow that because this manufactured paradigm,
• 1:49:35
  matrix, existence, whatever they operate in,
• 1:49:38
  discourages them so much. Gives them so much
• 1:49:42
  anxiety about the future. Artificial anxiety,
• 1:49:45
  not the organic anxiety we talked about. Because
• 1:49:48
  they don't think they can afford it. Right? Or
• 1:49:53
  it ruins their life. Or it's like, you know,
• 1:49:56
  I want to be my own boss or have free will or
• 1:49:58
  whatever. I think now, really, that is all a
• 1:50:03
  distraction. Funny, maybe getting a child is
• 1:50:07
  also a humbling experience because when I'm playing
• 1:50:10
  with my kid on the floor and he does something
• 1:50:13
  I don't like and I kind of snap at him and he
• 1:50:15
  doesn't even listen to me, I'm like, oh no, that's
• 1:50:17
  my mother. And I'm like, oh shit, now I'm doing
• 1:50:20
  what I didn't like. Okay, I need to fix that.
• 1:50:23
  You know what I mean? So it's like the child
• 1:50:26
  is a mirror of you because the child has no idea.
• 1:50:28
  The child literally falls into their body, right?
• 1:50:31
  Like I have a baby and she doesn't even know
• 1:50:33
  how to stand. She didn't know how to crawl. She
• 1:50:37
  just learned to wave, right? So she's falling
• 1:50:40
  into her body, but you see the spirit. We have
• 1:50:43
  interaction and there's like humor and she's
• 1:50:47
  laughing and we're connecting and all these things
• 1:50:49
  are there. But, you know, I still have to protect
• 1:50:53
  her. She can die at any moment when we drop her
• 1:50:55
  or whatever. Like she needs me and she needs
• 1:50:58
  her mother more. So now... I think looking at
• 1:51:06
  life and all the spirituality with what I know
• 1:51:08
  now, then having a baby actually confirmed it
• 1:51:11
  for me. It's like, okay, so you fall into this
• 1:51:16
  body. You learn how to control and use the body
• 1:51:20
  within the whatever this experience is. Imagine
• 1:51:24
  you're a baby. I'm just looking at her so much.
• 1:51:26
  It's like, she's just like, yeah, whatever. This
• 1:51:28
  is it. There's nothing outside of the room that
• 1:51:31
  exists for her. Her reality is the room. Or her
• 1:51:35
  bed or, you know what I mean? Like there's no,
• 1:51:38
  there's no understanding of the bigger thing.
• 1:51:40
  I once heard a guy say like, if there are like
• 1:51:43
  two dogs running around in a library, do you
• 1:51:47
  think they know they are running in a library
• 1:51:50
  and like they know the function of the library
• 1:51:53
  that there's like an amount of knowledge captured
• 1:51:56
  in books? from other places by other people.
• 1:51:59
  And that's like the collection of the knowledge
• 1:52:01
  in library. And the library is like in a city,
• 1:52:03
  in a country, in a world, in a universe, whatever.
• 1:52:05
  They're like, no, they're just running around
• 1:52:07
  like dogs. And that's what I'm thinking about
• 1:52:08
  with the baby. It's like the baby doesn't have
• 1:52:11
  any context. So I'm teaching the baby. We are
• 1:52:13
  teaching the baby. What is the context? This
• 1:52:15
  is a color. This is what we call blue. This is
• 1:52:19
  what we call green. This is what we call a cow,
• 1:52:21
  right? This is what we call water. Like it's
• 1:52:24
  us. We are doing that. So whatever she does later
• 1:52:28
  is a mirror of what I did for her. And so whatever
• 1:52:33
  she's giving back to me that I don't like comes
• 1:52:37
  from me. There's no context. The baby has no
• 1:52:41
  context. They just are, literally. And they just
• 1:52:45
  look at you like, okay. It's pure sauce running
• 1:52:48
  on the programs you gave it. In a sense. I also
• 1:52:54
  think a lot of people don't agree with this,
• 1:52:55
  but it's like a way to, to give yourself like
• 1:52:58
  not another life because you don't want to project,
• 1:53:01
  you know, you don't want to make your child a
• 1:53:04
  copy of you. It's about being aware of what the
• 1:53:09
  child reflects back to you. And then think about,
• 1:53:12
  is this, is this what I want to tell them or
• 1:53:17
  give them? Right? Like we talked about with the
• 1:53:19
  words, like the things that you want to exist.
• 1:53:23
  If they are showing behavior or doing a certain
• 1:53:26
  thing that you don't like, you probably showed
• 1:53:29
  them or taught them. Like, I mean, I have this
• 1:53:31
  every day where I'm like, fuck, okay, I need
• 1:53:33
  to change this. Fuck, okay, I need to change
• 1:53:34
  that. But this is also, again, part of the life
• 1:53:37
  experience, right? I cannot go back and be like,
• 1:53:40
  oh, I don't want to have a kid. No, this is now
• 1:53:42
  my little decision tree and let me up here. So
• 1:53:46
  it is part of all these decisions that I made.
• 1:53:51
  Even before having a child, while having a child,
• 1:53:54
  now sitting on the mat saying something where
• 1:53:56
  I'm like, fuck, this is not what I want to continue.
• 1:54:01
  So I need to figure out where that comes from.
• 1:54:05
  What does it mean? Why do I say this? What's
• 1:54:08
  the other thing? It instantly puts you to work,
• 1:54:12
  I would say. So my answer to the question is,
• 1:54:16
  this, I think, is essential to life. And if...
• 1:54:22
  basically fiat money doesn't give you an anchor
• 1:54:25
  right it it puts you on a drift on this uncertainty
• 1:54:28
  towards the future um kind of like mystifies
• 1:54:33
  the future for you further than what it is by
• 1:54:36
  definition um this is i think is where people
• 1:54:40
  actually spiritually stray off the path of what
• 1:54:45
  in essence was part of the path for like billions
• 1:54:49
  gazillions of people before you right so the
• 1:54:52
  fact that like a man -made construction of something
• 1:54:57
  of value right the one or the two or the five
• 1:55:00
  or the 20 on a bill makes you not want to follow
• 1:55:05
  what everyone before you did i think is is is
• 1:55:12
  the biggest like spiritual crime in the world
• 1:55:15
  today no oh so maybe my generation or even your
• 1:55:20
  generation will have less kids. But I think the
• 1:55:24
  kids that are there after us, I think they'll
• 1:55:27
  be all right. You know what I mean? Like there's
• 1:55:29
  something that also guides them in a different
• 1:55:32
  way than what guided us. And I think like, you
• 1:55:36
  know, just the internet itself has just opened
• 1:55:39
  so many opportunities for just new ideas, you
• 1:55:42
  know? And like, I think we'll find our way through
• 1:55:43
  where like, you know. there's just so much like
• 1:55:47
  media and and programming around it all but also
• 1:55:49
  i had no business being an 18 year old who was
• 1:55:54
  obsessed with ayahuasca living in sydney you
• 1:55:58
  know what i mean yeah and it was like i got called
• 1:56:02
  out on my great adventure because i got to see
• 1:56:05
  what was out there and i think we're in this
• 1:56:08
  stage right now where everything is so out of
• 1:56:12
  balance as humanity tries to grapple with like
• 1:56:15
  the the weight of this technology but i think
• 1:56:18
  in an equilibrium will occur especially with
• 1:56:21
  the help of bitcoin when like things will start
• 1:56:23
  to get realigned and you know just personally
• 1:56:26
  like that's why i love following the traditions
• 1:56:30
  of natives and the indigenous you know because
• 1:56:35
  they are eternal they're structure for culture
• 1:56:41
  and society and skill sets they will survive
• 1:56:45
  if the whole world is fucking reset and the way
• 1:56:49
  that they live their lives is basically true
• 1:56:54
  because there's not that much wiggle room for
• 1:56:58
  bullshit yeah but they're not straying from the
• 1:57:04
  like they're This is so nice where if something
• 1:57:07
  lives long enough, if it's truth long enough,
• 1:57:10
  that is low entropy, right? Like that is for
• 1:57:13
  them, that is fact. Because it worked thousands
• 1:57:17
  of years before them. And so anything new gets
• 1:57:20
  measured. That's funny, funny word. Gets measured
• 1:57:25
  against that. And that for them is a shared absolute
• 1:57:30
  truth that is true enough to... not be affected
• 1:57:36
  by the modern world. Modern world, what the fuck
• 1:57:41
  is that actually? But I think it's that. It is
• 1:57:46
  for them, that's a good metaphor actually. It's
• 1:57:51
  like in the modern world or in our fiat money
• 1:57:54
  world, what is truth? What is one thing where
• 1:57:59
  we can absolutely say that is true? even more
• 1:58:05
  than like in these tribes that you talk about.
• 1:58:11
  For them, it's truth, maybe because it comes
• 1:58:14
  from an older person or something, right? Like
• 1:58:16
  we could say like, well, then you still have
• 1:58:18
  to trust this older person, but there's this
• 1:58:20
  whole mechanism around it, why they would trust
• 1:58:23
  this person. But with Bitcoin, that even goes
• 1:58:26
  further because there's no one you have to trust,
• 1:58:28
  which is... Also wild, I would say. You don't
• 1:58:32
  even have to trust a social thing. It's literally
• 1:58:36
  just you and the code. You and the data on this
• 1:58:43
  blockchain. I think those are interesting things
• 1:58:48
  to compare with each other. It's funny. You don't
• 1:58:58
  have the context of the outside, but you have
• 1:59:01
  the anchor, right? So like the tribes have the
• 1:59:03
  anchor of the history and their education, of
• 1:59:06
  their family, their whole cohesiveness and all
• 1:59:08
  these things, and their actually lived experience
• 1:59:11
  of the connection with the plants and the trees
• 1:59:13
  and the animals and all this. They know that
• 1:59:15
  that is true, right? And my baby knows also one
• 1:59:23
  truth is just B, is just the pureness, right?
• 1:59:26
  She is not. She's not knowing as in actively
• 1:59:29
  knowing, but there's just one thing that she
• 1:59:31
  can do and she's not poisoned by the context.
• 1:59:36
  Does that make sense? I'm just thinking about
• 1:59:38
  the same type of illustrations of that. So how
• 1:59:41
  do you get out? How do we get out of the context
• 1:59:44
  of fiat money, the fucking chaos of that, right?
• 1:59:50
  The insecurity around the future, around that
• 1:59:54
  is... created through fiat money, basically,
• 1:59:56
  I think is by having an anchor or just having
• 2:00:01
  something that you can latch onto that can function
• 2:00:04
  as an anchor. And as we talked about before,
• 2:00:07
  I think whatever you think of Bitcoin doesn't
• 2:00:10
  really matter. You cannot deny factually that
• 2:00:13
  Bitcoin is the same for me as it is for you mathematically
• 2:00:17
  and like in the code and all those things. And
• 2:00:19
  so in that way, I think it could serve as this
• 2:00:22
  anchor. to kind of like get our shit together
• 2:00:27
  again and like come down from this like high
• 2:00:31
  entropy chaos fiat money state to a more grounded
• 2:00:37
  way of making decisions, I would say. Absolutely.
• 2:00:43
  Well, even like I was saying earlier, you know,
• 2:00:45
  it felt like once I found Bitcoin, it was like
• 2:00:47
  a new starting point, you know, like for me as
• 2:00:50
  an individual, what does it look like? at hyper
• 2:00:54
  -Bitcoinization for humanity. Like what a crazy
• 2:00:58
  foundation to like rebuild society on. I see
• 2:01:05
  that too. And I love that, right? If, like we
• 2:01:08
  said, if scarce money creates abundant resources
• 2:01:11
  because everyone is working for it, right? Then
• 2:01:16
  everyone is innovating. Everything will become
• 2:01:18
  exponentially better. And at one point, this
• 2:01:22
  is what Elon Musk, I think, says, like, at one
• 2:01:24
  point, there's so much abundance, you don't need
• 2:01:25
  money anymore. Well, if that was the function
• 2:01:28
  of Bitcoin, then that's fine. Right? If Bitcoin
• 2:01:32
  is not needed, if when we live in a hyperabundant
• 2:01:35
  world, then it served its purpose and you don't
• 2:01:38
  need money anymore. And then what can you do?
• 2:01:44
  Well, if you are in a hyperabundance world, I
• 2:01:49
  think you can go back to what we talked about,
• 2:01:54
  hunter -gatherers that weren't spoiled with more
• 2:01:58
  context than what they had to take into account
• 2:02:03
  where they lived on that day and that moment.
• 2:02:06
  Maybe we can look up again and be like, what
• 2:02:08
  the fuck is going on right now? We can actually
• 2:02:10
  go on that. on that on that journey yeah absolutely
• 2:02:15
  absolutely and everyone's starting their like
• 2:02:20
  spiritual journey from themselves and their own
• 2:02:23
  point of view like because there's like spirit
• 2:02:25
  and religion and all of this all around the country
• 2:02:27
  but it's like when did you look up you know what
• 2:02:30
  i mean what an interesting thing Yeah, and also
• 2:02:34
  when you look up and you try to like zoom out,
• 2:02:37
  I tell this to my son sometimes. I say like,
• 2:02:39
  okay, we're laying, we're here on the couch or
• 2:02:41
  we're sitting on the ground. Can you zoom out?
• 2:02:43
  Like, can you see our house? Can you like zoom
• 2:02:46
  out and more? Like, do you see this water or
• 2:02:48
  do you see that? Like, can you see the beach?
• 2:02:50
  Can you like zoom out and more and more and more
• 2:02:53
  and more and more and more? And then I... take
• 2:02:56
  this video from youtube that like zooms out and
• 2:02:59
  then eventually see the earth as like a pixel
• 2:03:01
  right like when it zooms out and then he's just
• 2:03:04
  like whoa whoa my mind he says my mind cannot
• 2:03:08
  take it i'm like yeah but this is this is what
• 2:03:13
  you're in maybe apparently someone tells you
• 2:03:17
  it is i don't know right so i think there's also
• 2:03:21
  this thing like I think the exploration for that
• 2:03:26
  or the understanding of that, like you mentioned
• 2:03:29
  Machu Picchu, what an amazing thing you could
• 2:03:34
  be doing. It's like doing the work, the physical
• 2:03:40
  work, to also kind of free yourself in a spiritual
• 2:03:45
  way or something, right? Like if you understand
• 2:03:47
  more and more of this, like imagine this is really
• 2:03:51
  infinite. If space is infinite, Okay. What does
• 2:03:55
  it mean that you're here? Like, what does that
• 2:03:57
  mean? What does that even like, I don't know.
• 2:04:00
  I don't even have an answer to that. But if you're
• 2:04:03
  like collectively aware of that question and
• 2:04:08
  people are putting their attention to that question,
• 2:04:11
  maybe you get an answer. But I do think that
• 2:04:14
  it works like that. Like you can only get an
• 2:04:17
  answer if we like actually think it matters to.
• 2:04:22
  get an answer right so if you think about like
• 2:04:26
  machu picchu or like these old civilizations
• 2:04:28
  it's like you could like chill and eat all the
• 2:04:34
  fruit from the trees and just chill with each
• 2:04:36
  other but what did you decide to do you decided
• 2:04:38
  to like climb that mountain and calculate the
• 2:04:41
  angle of the fucking like where where where should
• 2:04:45
  that gate be and when and like how high and then
• 2:04:48
  you had to like draft people to like walk there
• 2:04:51
  and whatever there were probably people that
• 2:04:53
  applied for that like let me do that think about
• 2:04:57
  that that's how I mean that is giving yourself
• 2:05:00
  to something bigger that you don't understand
• 2:05:02
  but you're like courageous enough to do it I
• 2:05:05
  think that is super aspirational I think I can
• 2:05:07
  talk about it like this but this is not always
• 2:05:10
  my lived This is not what I do all the time.
• 2:05:16
  Like, it's not like I'm, you know what I mean?
• 2:05:17
  Like, I'm also captured in the luxury of my randomly,
• 2:05:22
  random life in a Western country with everything
• 2:05:26
  that comes with that, right? So how do you get
• 2:05:30
  back to that? I don't know. I really don't know.
• 2:05:32
  But I do feel that it is a possibility, but it's
• 2:05:36
  also far away. Like, we're far away from where
• 2:05:40
  they were, right? I mean, the fact that Machu
• 2:05:46
  Picchu is still here, that you can go there and
• 2:05:48
  be in awe of the fact that it is there and that
• 2:05:50
  you had to like go on a fucking hike to get there
• 2:05:53
  and that you're like, how did these people do
• 2:05:54
  it? And they did it with all their love and all
• 2:05:56
  their enthusiasm for like a way bigger calling
• 2:06:00
  than anything you and I ever did in our lives.
• 2:06:04
  And we think less of them sometimes, right? Like,
• 2:06:06
  oh. Like those tribes in Amazon, they use plants
• 2:06:11
  as their medicine and they talk to trees like,
• 2:06:13
  ha, ha, ha, we are so advanced. Dude, if a tree
• 2:06:17
  would fucking talk to me, I would be instantly
• 2:06:22
  converted. I mean, I saw that on my journey in
• 2:06:27
  a sense, but if I would now really experience
• 2:06:30
  it like someone in a tribe in a fucking Amazon
• 2:06:33
  says he experiences it, like I have friends who...
• 2:06:36
  have been to the amazon with like also with tribes
• 2:06:40
  like you have have been to do ceremonies and
• 2:06:42
  they told me like they just walk through the
• 2:06:45
  forest and the forest tells them where to go
• 2:06:47
  like they talk with the trees like the trees
• 2:06:49
  guide them through the forest and i'm like yeah
• 2:06:52
  okay i believe that like why who am i to dismiss
• 2:06:55
  that what uh what uh what uh what uh no how do
• 2:07:02
  you say that like That would not be humble. That
• 2:07:04
  would not be me showing humility, right? Because
• 2:07:06
  that would be me applying my idea of the reality
• 2:07:11
  on these people that have a way older culture
• 2:07:14
  than me, right? Like they have something that
• 2:07:18
  I don't have. So yeah, that's kind of how I think
• 2:07:22
  through that. But again, it's this balance, like,
• 2:07:25
  okay, we can talk about this. I think this is
• 2:07:26
  true. But tomorrow morning, again, I'm going
• 2:07:29
  to call a guy out because he cuts me off on my
• 2:07:32
  bike. Like, what the fuck? Like, what is that?
• 2:07:35
  I love that little point that you brought up,
• 2:07:40
  though. Just, like, the building of Machu Picchu
• 2:07:44
  just being something so much bigger than yourself,
• 2:07:46
  if you're involved in that. And, like, to the
• 2:07:49
  people listening and even, like, reflecting on
• 2:07:52
  my own life, what are the odds that I actually
• 2:07:56
  am part of, like, an endeavor of some sort? that
• 2:08:00
  people are still frothing over 2 ,000 years later?
• 2:08:06
  Maybe Bitcoin, but nothing else. But nothing
• 2:08:10
  else. 100 % nothing else. Not even close. Not
• 2:08:16
  even close. Isn't that like, I don't know what
• 2:08:21
  that does for you, but for me, I'm just thinking
• 2:08:24
  about like, what would that experience be like?
• 2:08:27
  Because it feels like, that experience is sim
• 2:08:32
  more simple in the doing of things and and and
• 2:08:37
  bigger in terms of of feeling the reward or the
• 2:08:42
  connection or whatever does that make sense like
• 2:08:45
  it is just the over complication of all these
• 2:08:48
  things that you need to do here in the physical
• 2:08:50
  life and then all the things that can distract
• 2:08:53
  you or worry you or impact you or whatever it's
• 2:08:56
  all all taken away from this internal experience
• 2:09:05
  that is already inside of you, but that you're
• 2:09:08
  constantly being pulled away from or something.
• 2:09:13
  I wonder if it really is like if you had to do
• 2:09:18
  shitty work in Machu Picchu, would you still
• 2:09:21
  be happy and content because you felt that you
• 2:09:25
  were contributing together with other people?
• 2:09:29
  They were all contributing together to something
• 2:09:33
  that was bigger than them. So you did still did
• 2:09:35
  the shitty fucking shit anyway, because that
• 2:09:40
  was more important to experience than doing the
• 2:09:42
  physical work that you hated. Maybe. I wonder,
• 2:09:48
  I wonder if it works like that. I wonder if it
• 2:09:51
  works like that. Yeah, absolutely. It's like
• 2:09:53
  the, the work is the devotion, you know? It's
• 2:09:58
  interesting. We overcomplicate life so much.
• 2:10:00
  It's so crazy. Yeah. And that's, again, the journey,
• 2:10:04
  not the destination. It's true. I think it's
• 2:10:06
  true. I think it's true. Because the destination
• 2:10:09
  is literally death. Yeah. Yes. But I mean, more
• 2:10:16
  like, yes, but in the Machu Picchu sense, they
• 2:10:20
  don't even know, consciously experience that
• 2:10:24
  it's still there. And you. visit that and are
• 2:10:27
  in awe of what they created. They don't even
• 2:10:31
  get to get that reward, right? So the destination,
• 2:10:37
  you could say, is beyond their physical life,
• 2:10:41
  right? What the impact is of something like Machu
• 2:10:46
  Picchu or how it makes you think or even this
• 2:10:49
  conversation, their work inspired this conversation.
• 2:10:53
  And they have no clue. That is all beyond their
• 2:10:57
  physical life, right? So they don't have the
• 2:11:01
  entire reward at all. Probably the reward part
• 2:11:06
  is bigger after their physical life than in their
• 2:11:09
  physical life. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's super
• 2:11:12
  interesting. Well, it's been really fun talking
• 2:11:16
  to you. I'm glad we did this. So basically, we
• 2:11:20
  came to the conclusion of buy Bitcoin and have
• 2:11:22
  babies. and enjoy it for all, all for what it
• 2:11:26
  is. Anchor yourself in reality. Yeah. Yeah. Come
• 2:11:30
  back to reality. Um, you're still doing the podcasts.
• 2:11:36
  Are you working on anything else? Oh yeah. I'm
• 2:11:41
  working on, uh, so I have like 200 episodes of
• 2:11:44
  the podcast a bit more now. And from like the
• 2:11:47
  first hundred episodes, I'm making a book. So
• 2:11:51
  I took all the knowledge from all the. first
• 2:11:53
  hundred guests and using ai to make a book so
• 2:11:56
  like to use their knowledge to put in a in a
• 2:11:59
  framework that i always wanted to make a bitcoin
• 2:12:02
  book in um i'm organizing uh a psychedelic gathering
• 2:12:08
  in uh summer probably summer next year um for
• 2:12:13
  for bitcoiners so that's where also you mentioned
• 2:12:16
  going going beyond bitcoin that's also the name
• 2:12:19
  so it's going beyond bitcoin .com People can
• 2:12:22
  check that out. And yeah, just tinkering with
• 2:12:26
  a lot of stuff and just trying to talk to interesting
• 2:12:29
  people and inspire myself and learn. And there's
• 2:12:34
  nothing really else I can do, I think. Try to
• 2:12:37
  be a good father. Yeah, just go with the flow,
• 2:12:39
  literally. Again, something that is so basic,
• 2:12:42
  but it's like that. Yeah, I'm just trying to
• 2:12:46
  create, I think. and and and try even more but
• 2:12:52
  that's harder to also experience whatever happens
• 2:12:56
  after the creation right um but yeah i think
• 2:13:00
  those are the the main things yeah and so the
• 2:13:02
  podcast is bitcoin for millennials and people
• 2:13:05
  can find it on youtube and spotify and all these
• 2:13:08
  places yeah and i mean like this conversation
• 2:13:10
  was definitely beyond bitcoin yeah for the vast
• 2:13:15
  majority of it but if you want to learn about
• 2:13:17
  bitcoin in a very focused way definitely check
• 2:13:21
  out his podcast it's fantastic like you know
• 2:13:24
  really intelligent people bringing a lot of nuance
• 2:13:27
  to a lot of aspects so yeah that's the place
• 2:13:29
  this is this is the beyond bitcoin conversations
• 2:13:33
  okay cool yeah thank you so much cheers man thank
• 2:13:39
  you um yeah all my relations boom