Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Killers Amongst US: Bride sends out 'Save-the-Dates,' found stabbed 20 times, RULED SUICIDE! (episode 2)

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Killers Amongst US: Bride sends out 'Save-the-Dates,' found stabbed 20 times, RULED SUICIDE! (episode 2) · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, welcome back to Killers amongst Us,
0:08
Speaker 1: the production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. You ever work
0:13
Speaker 1: out at the gem and look around and wonder who
0:16
Speaker 1: are those people? Who's pushing those weights, who's lifting free weights,
0:23
Speaker 1: who's looking in the gym mirrors? Of course they always
0:26
Speaker 1: have the mirrors all the way around, like it or not.
0:28
Speaker 1: Who's in your aerobics or spin class, your yoga class.
0:33
Speaker 1: You think you know them? But do you I? Nancy Grace,
0:38
Speaker 1: this is Killers amongst Us. We left off talking about
0:46
Speaker 1: this gorgeous girl, Ellen Greenberg. Just beautiful on the outside
0:51
Speaker 1: and the inside. I'm always struck by her long, shiny
0:55
Speaker 1: black hair and a perfect smile like a picket fence.
1:01
Speaker 1: Take a listen. Greenberg's personal life was going just as
1:04
Speaker 1: well as her teaching career. Greenberg lived in an apartment
1:07
Speaker 1: with her boyfriend, Samuel Goldberg. He was a television producer
1:11
Speaker 1: for NBC. In fact, the pair were engaged and planning
1:14
Speaker 1: a wedding. Save the Date cards had just been sent
1:17
Speaker 1: to guests. Friends tell Oxygen. Greenberg was all smiles. We
1:21
Speaker 1: all received the saved the date in the mail. I
1:24
Speaker 1: remember calling her on the phone saying, Oh my god,
1:26
Speaker 1: they're so beautiful, and she was so excited joining me.
1:30
Speaker 1: Sandy Greenberg, Ellen's mom, her dad Josh Daryl Cohen, former
1:35
Speaker 1: prosecutor now defense attorney with Cohen Cooper E. Stepan Allen,
1:40
Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold Psychiatrists out of Atlanta at Angela Arnold
1:44
Speaker 1: MD dot com. Tom Brennan, private investigator on Team Ellen,
1:51
Speaker 1: and you can find him at Tom Brennan Consulting dot com.
1:56
Speaker 1: And joining US crime reporter for the Philadelphia Inquiry were
2:00
Speaker 1: Stephanie far And on Twitter, She's far far away to ours.
2:05
Speaker 1: Fr R. Everyone, thank you for being with us. We
2:09
Speaker 1: were just talking about save the dates. And I just
2:13
Speaker 1: can't think of a happier time in my life than
2:16
Speaker 1: when I finally decided to get married, other than when
2:20
Speaker 1: I had my twins. But the excitement and the joy
2:23
Speaker 1: of knowing I was starting a whole new chapter was
2:29
Speaker 1: someone that I loved. Sandy, do you remember when Alan
2:34
Speaker 1: first told you they were getting married. I remember it vividly.
2:40
Speaker 1: She was so excited. She was with Sam in California
2:45
Speaker 1: and they pulled over along the coastline. They were taking
2:48
Speaker 1: the drive, and he bent down on one knee and proposed,
2:54
Speaker 1: and in some of the media you can see a
2:57
Speaker 1: picture of her in a Jeane jacket holding her hand
3:01
Speaker 1: up with the ring. She just was over the moon.
3:04
Speaker 1: That's the photo that I'm looking at right now, And
3:08
Speaker 1: now that you tell me what it is, I recognize it.
3:10
Speaker 1: Did you say it was on Pacific One, that beautiful
3:13
Speaker 1: coastal drive? Exactly? Oh, beautiful, beautiful and it goes for
3:18
Speaker 1: miles and miles and miles. When did she call you
3:21
Speaker 1: and tell you about it? Well, there was a time difference. Honestly,
3:26
Speaker 1: I don't remember. Do you remember that called Josh Greenberg
3:29
Speaker 1: when she called and said, guess what, I'm engaged? Not really,
3:32
Speaker 1: because that was really between the mother and daughter. I'm
3:35
Speaker 1: the father. I'm sort of out on the outs on
3:37
Speaker 1: some of these things, if you know what I mean.
3:39
Speaker 1: Some Josh, you sound just like my husband. Things I'm
3:43
Speaker 1: in and some things I'm just not. And then I
3:46
Speaker 1: learned when to keep my mouth shut when I'm not. Oh, well,
3:49
Speaker 1: you know what, that's a very valuable lesson. I'm going
3:52
Speaker 1: to have you teach one on one with my husband.
3:54
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I can afford that kind
3:56
Speaker 1: of lesson, because again, that is invaluable that would break
3:59
Speaker 1: the bank to get him to learn that. So you say,
4:02
Speaker 1: Josh Greenberg, you've actually learned to keep your mouth shut?
4:04
Speaker 1: Is that true, Sandy, because I'm having a hard time
4:06
Speaker 1: believing that a husband has learned to keep his mouth shut.
4:09
Speaker 1: Don't break in, Darryl Cohen, I learned a long time ago.
4:15
Speaker 1: He broke in. I said, don't break any broke in, Sandy.
4:19
Speaker 1: Go ahead, let's ignore Darryl's root interruptions. We just have
4:22
Speaker 1: a joke between us that he's going to get a
4:27
Speaker 1: big roll of duct tape and keep it right in
4:29
Speaker 1: front of him to put it over his face so
4:32
Speaker 1: well control himself. And Josh, I'm sure she means that
4:37
Speaker 1: in a loving, caring way. Secret. Now, guys, we're talking
4:43
Speaker 1: about this beautiful girl. I call her a girl. She's
4:46
Speaker 1: twenty seven. She's a fantastic teacher, and she just gets
4:51
Speaker 1: engaged and is sending out the save the dates, you know.
4:57
Speaker 1: And that's why I think doctor Angela Arnold Psychiatrists joining
5:01
Speaker 1: us at the Atlanta Jurisdiction, the dichotomy, the juxtaposition of
5:06
Speaker 1: that happy moment in her life then followed so brutally
5:12
Speaker 1: that life cut short guys, take listen to our friends
5:17
Speaker 1: at doctor Oz. She was at home with her fiance
5:20
Speaker 1: until four or forty five pm, when he reportedly went
5:23
Speaker 1: to the gym in their apartment comedies. When he arrived
5:26
Speaker 1: back to the apartment less than an hour later, he
5:29
Speaker 1: says he found the apartment locks from the inside. He
5:32
Speaker 1: claims he banged on the door and received no response.
5:35
Speaker 1: Over the next twenty two minutes, he would try to
5:38
Speaker 1: convince Ellen to open the door through text messages. I'm
5:41
Speaker 1: just curious. I know that was a snow day, but
5:44
Speaker 1: is that why Ellen was at home, Josh, She was
5:48
Speaker 1: home from school. The scene, it was one of those
5:50
Speaker 1: nor reasons. And yes, Ellen had come home early. Ellen
5:53
Speaker 1: had filled up her car with gas. Ellen had called
5:57
Speaker 1: various various parents, excuse me, to make sure that the
6:01
Speaker 1: children went home, because she was an elementary school teacher,
6:03
Speaker 1: and these are young children from the Juniana School in Philadelphia.
6:09
Speaker 1: And that's the scene that sets the scene. Sandy probably
6:13
Speaker 1: had a conversation with Ellen earlier in the day because
6:15
Speaker 1: they speak every day. But basically, it was a snowstorm,
6:19
Speaker 1: the school was closing. Ellen puld guess in her car
6:22
Speaker 1: in case she needed it, and Ellen made sure her
6:25
Speaker 1: students got home. I'm just thinking about her taking time
6:28
Speaker 1: to call the students. You know, I want to go
6:31
Speaker 1: to Sandy Greenberg and guys, yes, I know, all of
6:34
Speaker 1: you busy people. I'm digressing, But you know, Sandy Greenberg,
6:40
Speaker 1: we had a teacher that really took an interest and
6:47
Speaker 1: the twins. And she was a short little thing, but
6:50
Speaker 1: she was a strict disciplinarian. A lot of students were
6:52
Speaker 1: afraid of her, but particularly she would slip my son
6:57
Speaker 1: extra reading assignments. And I'm like, I said, John, David,
7:01
Speaker 1: do you think that possibly we need to work on
7:03
Speaker 1: your reading skills? And he said, oh no, Mom, these
7:06
Speaker 1: are just for fun. Well, one of them was about
7:10
Speaker 1: a little tiny lighthouse in New York. Can I tell
7:15
Speaker 1: you how long it took us to find the quote
7:18
Speaker 1: little red lighthouse underneath the bridge. I can't remember where
7:22
Speaker 1: the thing was, and it was, of course not a
7:25
Speaker 1: tourist destination. We had to get out of the cab
7:28
Speaker 1: we were in, walked down this rocky hill to get
7:32
Speaker 1: down there, and nearly kill myself, but I was trying
7:34
Speaker 1: to act like, you know, I'm happy Vivacia's mom, And
7:38
Speaker 1: so we get down and it really was. It couldn't
7:40
Speaker 1: have been taller than thirty feet, a little red lighthouse.
7:44
Speaker 1: And my point is that when we took a picture
7:47
Speaker 1: of it, we sent it to her. When they got
7:50
Speaker 1: back to school, she had for John, David and Lucy
7:53
Speaker 1: each a little lighthouse key chain that lit up. And
7:58
Speaker 1: do you know they still talk about that. That was
8:00
Speaker 1: I think in either the first or second grade. How
8:03
Speaker 1: much a teacher can mean to a student. Sandy. And
8:07
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about your daughter, Ellen calling, trying to
8:10
Speaker 1: get each one of these parents to say, hey, it's
8:12
Speaker 1: just snow day, your child's coming home. You know, we're
8:15
Speaker 1: looking if we get a text. I mean that takes
8:18
Speaker 1: love and devotion, Sandy. Well, it also is part of
8:23
Speaker 1: her constitution that she was very responsible and very attentive
8:28
Speaker 1: and you know, took care of everyone before she found
8:32
Speaker 1: her way home. So she's home early that day. Now,
8:37
Speaker 1: how is it fiance, who also lives there, goes to
8:41
Speaker 1: the gym, he comes back, the door is locked from
8:45
Speaker 1: the inside, so he can't get back. Kay, what jump in?
8:49
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I have
8:53
Speaker 1: her guest receipt. She filled up her car. It was
8:57
Speaker 1: on January twenty sixth at one twenty six that's when
9:03
Speaker 1: she was filling up her car, so she was home
9:07
Speaker 1: maybe five minutes later in terms of a timeline. As
9:11
Speaker 1: far as we know, Nancy, the door was locked. You
9:15
Speaker 1: weren't there, I wasn't there. The fiance was there alone.
9:20
Speaker 1: He wasn't escorted. So we don't even know if the
9:22
Speaker 1: door was locked. We don't know if the whole thing
9:27
Speaker 1: was a set up for lack of a bitter term,
9:31
Speaker 1: maybe the door wasn't locked. You know, I've been thinking
9:34
Speaker 1: about that very same thing, because that's the oldest trick
9:37
Speaker 1: in the book. Even my son can figure that out
9:39
Speaker 1: in murder mysteries, that the first person to the scene
9:43
Speaker 1: adjusts whether the door is locked or unlocked. And then
9:47
Speaker 1: if they break the door down, who's to know if
9:50
Speaker 1: that inside lot was or was not locked. So explain
9:55
Speaker 1: to me you had been to her apartment. Josh explained
9:58
Speaker 1: to me, what do we mean by the door was
10:00
Speaker 1: lot from the inside, because if it's just a little
10:03
Speaker 1: you know, the door candle, a lot where you push
10:06
Speaker 1: a button you can kick the door has swing lock.
10:12
Speaker 1: Swing lock is the type of lock you see when
10:14
Speaker 1: you go to a hotel. It swings out. It's not
10:16
Speaker 1: a bolt, a dead bolt. If you go on YouTube
10:21
Speaker 1: or like there, they will show you how to lock
10:24
Speaker 1: that swing lock from outside the door, so it appears
10:28
Speaker 1: like it was locked. There was also pictures that the
10:33
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's team took of the lock. The lock is
10:36
Speaker 1: not deformed one. When you have us lock that goes
10:40
Speaker 1: in the door and the frame. There are two screws
10:43
Speaker 1: in the doors, screws on the frame. Now one screw
10:48
Speaker 1: is missing, but there weren't even any chips on the
10:52
Speaker 1: floor from the lock being destroyed or the screw being removed.
10:56
Speaker 1: So the screw probably, and this is just a guess
10:58
Speaker 1: on my part, I'm not an expert, was just unscrewed
11:01
Speaker 1: to look like it was broken into. So we don't
11:06
Speaker 1: really know that that the lock was ever damaged or
11:10
Speaker 1: dismembered or taken off the door. So the whole thing
11:14
Speaker 1: we are now saying about the door being locked just
11:17
Speaker 1: came to me as we discussed this. We don't know
11:20
Speaker 1: that none of us were there, you know, I want
11:28
Speaker 1: to focus just for a moment on what Josh Greenberg
11:31
Speaker 1: has just said to Tom Brennan, private investigator who was
11:34
Speaker 1: on team Allen Greenberg, as many of us are to
11:38
Speaker 1: try to find the truth of what happened that day.
11:41
Speaker 1: Tom My son and daughter and I and husband. We
11:46
Speaker 1: dragged him along with us. Watch murder mysteries all the time.
11:50
Speaker 1: So while they're not graphic, so the children won't be afraid.
11:55
Speaker 1: Tom Brennan, it's to the point now even my thirteen
12:00
Speaker 1: year old twins before they turned thirteen, could say, oh,
12:03
Speaker 1: the guy that came to the scene, that door wasn't locked.
12:06
Speaker 1: He didn't have to really break in. So that's kind
12:09
Speaker 1: of an check of the trade, Tom Brennan. But I
12:13
Speaker 1: actually had not thought of that until Josh brought it up.
12:15
Speaker 1: There's in the apartment in the locks where the where
12:22
Speaker 1: Ellen and Sam lived. There are security cameras located in
12:27
Speaker 1: different different areas throughout the apartment building, but there aren't
12:32
Speaker 1: any in the hall. So if in fact the door
12:38
Speaker 1: was in fact locked or unlocked, we don't know. Well,
12:42
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. Take a listen to our
12:44
Speaker 1: friends in the Philadelphia District Attorney's office. There are some
12:48
Speaker 1: video in this particular apartment complex. The video does not show, unfortunately,
12:54
Speaker 1: the whole way where Ellen lived, but the video does
12:57
Speaker 1: show the entrance to the basilie as well as the
13:01
Speaker 1: card or the hallway leading into the gym. It's not
13:04
Speaker 1: a fantastic video, but it does show that, in addition
13:07
Speaker 1: to that, you need a key fob to enter the building,
13:11
Speaker 1: and if I remember correctly, you need a key fob
13:13
Speaker 1: to enter the gym, and I remember looking at if
13:16
Speaker 1: I recall properly, and I think that I am that
13:19
Speaker 1: both the video surveillance as well as the key fob
13:23
Speaker 1: does show him going into the gym in or around
13:26
Speaker 1: five h one pm. He was at the gym for
13:28
Speaker 1: approximately thirty minutes, give or take, so leaves the apartment
13:32
Speaker 1: around five maybe four fifty nine five pm, takes the
13:35
Speaker 1: elevator downstairs, goes to the gym and is there for
13:38
Speaker 1: approximately twenty nine or thirty minutes, and then returns back
13:41
Speaker 1: to the apartments. Guys, you're hearing the former Philly Ada
13:45
Speaker 1: guy DeAndrea on his YouTube channel. Now wait a minute,
13:50
Speaker 1: he got a whole workout in and under thirty minutes.
13:53
Speaker 1: Must have been one of those speed circuit training things.
13:56
Speaker 1: So as you go ahead, video depicts him going back
14:02
Speaker 1: up to the apartment from the gym, coming back down,
14:08
Speaker 1: walking over to the area where the concierge is picking
14:13
Speaker 1: up some mail. He's reading some some some mail. As
14:20
Speaker 1: he gets back on the elevator, goes back upstairs. I'm
14:25
Speaker 1: back down again, walks around on his cell phone, talking
14:30
Speaker 1: on his cell phone, goes back up on the elevator.
14:35
Speaker 1: So this takes about an out. Wow. Tom Brennan, private
14:41
Speaker 1: investigator with Tom Brennan Consulting dot Com. You know that's
14:46
Speaker 1: not the way I understood it. And I'm not saying
14:49
Speaker 1: you're wrong. I'm saying I didn't understand all those facts
14:53
Speaker 1: because I thought after his twenty nine minute workout, which
14:57
Speaker 1: I would love to see what that was. They have
14:59
Speaker 1: video in the Jim, But I thought he went straight
15:03
Speaker 1: up to the apartment, couldn't get in, banged on the door,
15:07
Speaker 1: came down to the doorman, or as you said, concierge
15:12
Speaker 1: tried to get him to help open the door. He
15:15
Speaker 1: wouldn't help for various reasons, and that the fiance goes
15:20
Speaker 1: back up and then breaks the door down. If you
15:24
Speaker 1: don't mind, if you could explain that very carefully, Josh Greenberg,
15:29
Speaker 1: this is Ellen's dad. I'm hearing what Tom Brennan is saying.
15:32
Speaker 1: That's the first time I've heard that scenario. What does
15:36
Speaker 1: the video show, Josh, Well, let Tom will continue. That's
15:39
Speaker 1: really his specialty. Yeah, okay, good Tom, tell me exactly
15:43
Speaker 1: one more time, and take it slowly because I'm making notes.
15:45
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Tom, What is the video show? Okay? What
15:49
Speaker 1: the video shows? It picks Sam coming down, getting off
15:54
Speaker 1: the elevator, going into the gym. Fortunately, thirty minutes later
15:59
Speaker 1: he exits egg, gets the gym, gets back on the
16:04
Speaker 1: elevator and goes upstairs. Okay, Then you see him coming
16:08
Speaker 1: back down, walks over towards the concierge desk, goes out
16:14
Speaker 1: of sight. When he comes back into view on the
16:19
Speaker 1: security camera, he has a letter or a piece of
16:22
Speaker 1: paper that he's reading, gets back on the elevator and
16:26
Speaker 1: goes upstairs. A few minutes later, he comes back down,
16:33
Speaker 1: goes over to the concierge. He's out of sight for
16:36
Speaker 1: a while, comes back into view and he's on his
16:39
Speaker 1: cell phone. Then he gets back into the elevator and
16:44
Speaker 1: goes back upstairs. Now, what you have to understand with
16:50
Speaker 1: the swinging the swinging bar lock that was on the
16:55
Speaker 1: door each mounting, there are four screw Well, I've got
17:02
Speaker 1: a question, Tom, Tom hold on before we get to
17:04
Speaker 1: the door lock. I thought he came down and begged
17:08
Speaker 1: the concierge to open up the door because Ellen wouldn't
17:10
Speaker 1: open the door on two different occasions that recording to
17:15
Speaker 1: the concierge. That's what he told me, and the concierge
17:21
Speaker 1: informed him then that it was against company policy and
17:25
Speaker 1: he couldn't help him out. But I didn't hear you
17:27
Speaker 1: describe that on his four trips down. I never heard
17:30
Speaker 1: you say that. The video showed him and going to
17:33
Speaker 1: the concierge and asking the concierge to open the door.
17:38
Speaker 1: Did you when you see him going to the concierge,
17:41
Speaker 1: it just shows him walking towards the area where the
17:44
Speaker 1: concierge is. It doesn't show him talking to the concierge. Wow,
17:52
Speaker 1: wait a minute, that's not it all the way I
17:54
Speaker 1: imagined it to Stephanie farr Ashtree, porter with the Philadelphia Inquirer.
17:59
Speaker 1: You can find Stephanie at Far Far Away on Twitter. Stephanie,
18:03
Speaker 1: I thought he went from the gym there in the building,
18:07
Speaker 1: goes upstairs, can't get in, beats on the door, think
18:09
Speaker 1: something's wrong, races back down, goes to the doorman or
18:12
Speaker 1: the concierge frantically going to help me, help me, help me,
18:16
Speaker 1: and goes back up. I'm hearing a completely different scenario,
18:18
Speaker 1: Stephanie far I think that Tom's just saying that he
18:22
Speaker 1: when you can't see him when he gets off the elevator,
18:25
Speaker 1: and you know, it goes out of you when he's
18:27
Speaker 1: in conversation with the concierge. The concierge told me that
18:33
Speaker 1: he came down two or three times to ask him
18:36
Speaker 1: to let him in, and then he was told that
18:38
Speaker 1: it was against company policy, so he couldn't let him.
18:41
Speaker 1: Sandy Greenberg, why was it against company policy for the
18:44
Speaker 1: concierge the doorman to open the door, I honestly don't
18:48
Speaker 1: know the answer, but that's what we were told. So
18:52
Speaker 1: he wasn't able to leave his post. Tom Brennan, is
18:55
Speaker 1: it because was the fiance's name on the lease? Huh? Well,
18:59
Speaker 1: then why would opened the door? According to the concierge,
19:02
Speaker 1: he said to against company policy to do that, and
19:05
Speaker 1: he told Sam Greenberg that he would have to callvisor,
19:10
Speaker 1: and the maintand supervisor was over in New Jersey, so
19:14
Speaker 1: he would have to wait for the maintenance supervisor to
19:17
Speaker 1: return to unlock the door to get in. Wow, Okay.
19:21
Speaker 1: Darrell Cohen, former prosecutor now defense attorney with Cohen Cooper,
19:25
Speaker 1: E step and Allan Daryl. I've never heard of that.
19:30
Speaker 1: And we've been living in our high rise in New
19:32
Speaker 1: York since, oh my goodness, at nineteen ninety seven. So
19:37
Speaker 1: if my husband went to the doorman and said, something
19:41
Speaker 1: is wrong Nancy, since thought she's not coming to the door,
19:44
Speaker 1: get in the door, they would come open the door.
19:47
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine that the concierge, if the conciers
19:52
Speaker 1: had a key and had access, would not open the
19:55
Speaker 1: door considering this young man Allen Siance was on the lease.
20:01
Speaker 1: So that makes zero sense to me. But I guess
20:05
Speaker 1: sometimes logic doesn't control. It is what it is, and
20:09
Speaker 1: it makes no sense. I'm right there with it. You
20:12
Speaker 1: have to understand Dan used his key to open the door.
20:19
Speaker 1: He couldn't get in because the swing bar lock was
20:23
Speaker 1: on the door. Okay, get in unless somebody else decided
20:31
Speaker 1: to get it to let him. So well was I lass?
20:35
Speaker 1: He said I won't do it. Apparently he said I
20:39
Speaker 1: cannot do it, which makes a big difference. Interesting, But
20:43
Speaker 1: you know what, doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrists joining us at
20:46
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com. When you look back, it
20:50
Speaker 1: may not have seemed like a big deal at that moment,
20:53
Speaker 1: because if I couldn't get in and David wasn't coming
20:56
Speaker 1: to the door, I would naturally say something was very wrong,
21:00
Speaker 1: because that would be out of his norm. He would
21:03
Speaker 1: absolutely come to the door with me banging on the door.
21:07
Speaker 1: So when you look back in retrospect, I would have
21:11
Speaker 1: expected the fiance to be basically jumping up and down
21:13
Speaker 1: standing on his head. Help me, help me, help me,
21:16
Speaker 1: instead of just walking by. And let me tell everybody,
21:20
Speaker 1: fiance not a suspect or a person of interest. Just
21:23
Speaker 1: just let's get that clear. But it can mean any
21:26
Speaker 1: number of things, doctor Angie, It could and it certainly
21:30
Speaker 1: it doesn't make a bit of sense, does it, Nancy,
21:36
Speaker 1: the way he acted, and so you know it's I mean, Nancy,
21:41
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes your actions can't really be explained, can they?
21:45
Speaker 1: And they and they shot a bad light on you.
21:49
Speaker 1: I understand that nobody's pointing any fingers, But we have
21:54
Speaker 1: heard what Sam said to try and entice Ellen's opened
22:00
Speaker 1: the door. Some of the people who have heard it
22:04
Speaker 1: did not feel it was very reassuring, comforting, lovely, lovingly
22:11
Speaker 1: like it was very brutal, like, don't piss me off,
22:15
Speaker 1: open the door. That's what I am under the impression
22:19
Speaker 1: that some of this was said. Don't I'm sorry. Do
22:26
Speaker 1: we know if they had had a fight. I mean,
22:28
Speaker 1: why would he have to entice her to open the
22:30
Speaker 1: door unless they had had a fight that she probably
22:33
Speaker 1: considered brutal. Again, I'm going to say, we don't know
22:37
Speaker 1: if the door was locked, Dewey, but we don't. We
22:41
Speaker 1: do know he opened the door with the key, and
22:43
Speaker 1: allegedly he claims he broke the door to door down.
22:47
Speaker 1: Excuse me. The swing lock, as I have said, had
22:51
Speaker 1: one screw missing, no deformity in the shape of the
22:55
Speaker 1: swing lock or anything like that. No chips of wood
22:59
Speaker 1: on the floor or by the door was clean. Was
23:03
Speaker 1: the door locked? Was the door really locked? We don't know,
23:08
Speaker 1: or was it put in a locked position. Later on, guys,
23:12
Speaker 1: take a listen to former Philadelphia a DA guy DeAndrea
23:16
Speaker 1: on his YouTube channel Listen. He conclusively stated in his
23:21
Speaker 1: signed statement to Philadelphia homicide detectives that he did not
23:25
Speaker 1: go upstairs. In other words, he was not there when
23:28
Speaker 1: the door when entry was made into the apartment. There
23:32
Speaker 1: were some neighbors who lived on that floor who did
23:37
Speaker 1: give statements as well, and they had indicated that for
23:41
Speaker 1: approximately an hour, hour and ten minutes, give or take,
23:43
Speaker 1: they did hear, with the exception of when Sam went
23:46
Speaker 1: downstairs to speak with the security guard. They did hear banging,
23:50
Speaker 1: They heard yelling from Sam into the apartment to have
23:54
Speaker 1: the door opened. And also take a listen to what
23:57
Speaker 1: we learn as it relates to what PI Tom Brennan
24:01
Speaker 1: just told us. Samuel Goldberg, Ellen's fiance went to use
24:04
Speaker 1: the gym in the complex about four or forty five pm.
24:07
Speaker 1: When he came back a half an hour later, he
24:09
Speaker 1: was locked out. The apartment's swing bar lock was engaged
24:13
Speaker 1: from the inside. He banged on the door to no response,
24:16
Speaker 1: so he tried to reach Greenberg using his phone and
24:19
Speaker 1: text messages over the next twenty two minutes. His messages
24:23
Speaker 1: became increasingly frustrated. Here's some of what he texted, Hello,
24:27
Speaker 1: opened the door. What are you doing? I'm getting pissed.
24:30
Speaker 1: You'd better have an excuse. What the fuck you have
24:33
Speaker 1: no idea? Finally, Goldberg goes to the lobby to speak
24:37
Speaker 1: with the loan security guard that night, asking him to
24:40
Speaker 1: help break the lock. The guard refuses, saying it was
24:43
Speaker 1: against policy. At six thirty three pm, Goldberg forces the
24:47
Speaker 1: door opened himself, then calls nine one one from our
24:51
Speaker 1: friends at crime Online. But let me understand, Stephanie far
24:54
Speaker 1: with the Philadelphia Inquirer, Is it correct that he the fiance,
25:00
Speaker 1: say toll cops, he was not there when the door
25:02
Speaker 1: was broken down. No, no, I don't. I don't think
25:04
Speaker 1: that that is correct. According to the documents from a
25:07
Speaker 1: medical advander's office that I read, he said he was
25:11
Speaker 1: the one to break down the door. Those documents initially
25:16
Speaker 1: indicated that the doorman may have been with him when
25:19
Speaker 1: the door was broken down. But given my investigation in
25:22
Speaker 1: Tom's in speaking with the security guard, we know that
25:25
Speaker 1: that's not true, that he remain at his desk the
25:27
Speaker 1: entire time. Okay, so is it you're understanding Tom Brennan
25:30
Speaker 1: that the fiance and the doorman were present when the
25:35
Speaker 1: door was broken out. No, no, no, no, no, that's
25:37
Speaker 1: not what I said. No. The initial reports said that
25:40
Speaker 1: the doorman was present with the fiance when the door
25:43
Speaker 1: was broken down, But when Tom and I interviewed the
25:46
Speaker 1: doorman throughout the course of our investigation, the doorman denied
25:50
Speaker 1: that and said he never left his guard post that night.
25:52
Speaker 1: Somebody's not telling the truth. Possibly, Okay, what everybody has
25:57
Speaker 1: to remember here, Okay, if you're talking about okay, why
26:01
Speaker 1: would Sam call Sandy and Josh before he does anything
26:10
Speaker 1: with anyone? Okay? When he can't make entry into the apartment,
26:16
Speaker 1: Sam called Sandy and Josh on their landline, and Sandy,
26:24
Speaker 1: what did Sam say to you? He said that he
26:27
Speaker 1: was locked out of the apartment and wondering if we
26:31
Speaker 1: had heard from Ellen, which I hadn't spoken with her
26:36
Speaker 1: since you know, seven nih that morning because he couldn't
26:41
Speaker 1: get in. And I said, oh, well, maybe she's drying
26:44
Speaker 1: her hair. I'm sure, you know, give it a little
26:46
Speaker 1: time and you know, try again. Then I don't hear
26:49
Speaker 1: anything until I get a call from Sam's father later
26:54
Speaker 1: that evening that something terrible happened to Ellie. Yeah, that's
26:57
Speaker 1: the last thing I would think I'm doing. Why would
27:01
Speaker 1: I'm at the New York apartment and David's inside and
27:05
Speaker 1: I can't get in, the last thing I would think
27:07
Speaker 1: of doing is calling his family back home in Georgia
27:11
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, I can't get in the door. I'm
27:15
Speaker 1: not sure what that's all about. What were you saying,
27:18
Speaker 1: Tom Brennan. You know, if you want to talk about
27:21
Speaker 1: weird okay, and you want to talk about behavior, why
27:25
Speaker 1: would an individual who can't get in the apartment instead
27:29
Speaker 1: of yelling, hey, honey opened the freaking door? Okay? Why
27:35
Speaker 1: would he call her parents? I'll tell you why? Is
27:38
Speaker 1: what I speculated earlier there was they had a fight
27:42
Speaker 1: and he wanted to call her parents to see whether
27:44
Speaker 1: or not she was that mad, that livid about whatever
27:48
Speaker 1: it is they thought about. Thank you very much, Daryl.
27:52
Speaker 1: You know, Daryl, as I said earlier with me, former
27:54
Speaker 1: prosecutor now veteran defense attorney, trial lawyer, Daryl Cohen Darryl.
28:01
Speaker 1: As I just mentioned earlier, the fiance has not been named,
28:06
Speaker 1: a person of interest, has not been named. A suspect
28:09
Speaker 1: in this case certainly has not been charged. And I'll
28:11
Speaker 1: tell you why. Do you remember, Daryl, the Julie Love
28:16
Speaker 1: a murder case? Absolutely? Do you know Julie Love, This
28:20
Speaker 1: gorgeous physical therapy type Jim teacher at a pre k
28:27
Speaker 1: is out jogging coincidentally near my apartment at the time
28:30
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and goes missing, can't find her. Time passes.
28:37
Speaker 1: Of course everybody knows at that point she's dead, and
28:42
Speaker 1: but we can't find her. You know how many times
28:44
Speaker 1: I went to our boss then Darryl. You and I
28:47
Speaker 1: both served under Lewis Slayton, the longest serving district attorney
28:50
Speaker 1: in the country at that time, nearly forty years elected.
28:55
Speaker 1: And I said, well, we're not indicting the boy for what.
29:00
Speaker 1: Can I please have this case? Can I please innate
29:03
Speaker 1: the boyfriend? Can I putt? And he just was like no, no,
29:07
Speaker 1: It was just waked. And of course he was seasoned,
29:11
Speaker 1: and I had been in the office a year. Maybe,
29:14
Speaker 1: well guess what he was right as time passed, As
29:20
Speaker 1: it happened, coincidentally, a girlfriend totally unrelated had been beaten
29:25
Speaker 1: up by her boyfriend. She called cops. She was so
29:29
Speaker 1: afraid the boyfriend would kill her because she called the cops.
29:33
Speaker 1: She rid it out that he saw Julie Love with
29:37
Speaker 1: some of his friends. They picked her up, raped her,
29:41
Speaker 1: murdered her. The only thing that was found of her
29:44
Speaker 1: body where the girl friend directed was way out and
29:50
Speaker 1: he's bubble buck outside of Atlanta. There was a glass eye.
29:58
Speaker 1: Nobody even knew that Julie Love had a glass eye,
30:01
Speaker 1: and I believe a bone or two that was what
30:04
Speaker 1: was left. Now, what a fine mess, what a fine
30:07
Speaker 1: kettle of fish would have had, Daryl Cohen if anybody
30:11
Speaker 1: had listened to me and others in the DA's office. So,
30:15
Speaker 1: you can't leap to a prosecution until you've got the goods.
30:20
Speaker 1: And I learned that I was still drawing up indictments.
30:24
Speaker 1: I hadn't even been in the courtroom yet. I had
30:26
Speaker 1: no idea what I was talking about. So Daryl, you
30:31
Speaker 1: have to have the evidence before you can go forward. Well, actually, Dan,
30:35
Speaker 1: so you had a great idea, and that made perfect
30:38
Speaker 1: logical sense. Fortunately, Lewis knew better than all of us
30:43
Speaker 1: and said, let's just wait. And his intuition, his knowledge,
30:48
Speaker 1: his expertise was right and it was spot on. Man.
30:53
Speaker 1: I miss him. I miss him, and his certainly saved
30:57
Speaker 1: her ex boyfriend from dying from the EPP and justice
31:02
Speaker 1: is an aside, Darrel. Did you know fast forward like
31:05
Speaker 1: seven years that perp in that case was Herbert Cornell Stevens,
31:11
Speaker 1: as you'll recall, and was convicted in the murder of
31:16
Speaker 1: Julie Love. Seven years later, I prosecuted Cornell Stephens first
31:22
Speaker 1: cousin for a murder, So I guess it ran in
31:26
Speaker 1: the family. Back to this guy's Sandy, Josh, Doctor, Angie, Tom, Stephanie.
31:38
Speaker 1: You probably, Stephanie, have the same thing at your job
31:41
Speaker 1: at the Philadelphia Inquirer. This is what happens when you're
31:44
Speaker 1: analyzing a case. You go totally off topic, and then
31:48
Speaker 1: you come back. My point being, everybody always suspects the husband,
31:53
Speaker 1: the boyfriend, the lover at the get go statistically, because
31:57
Speaker 1: statistically it's them. Not true in every case. But I
32:01
Speaker 1: am having a problem with the inconsistencies Josh Greenberg, because
32:06
Speaker 1: I've already spotted several of them. There are a number.
32:09
Speaker 1: I believe mister Goldberg said that he was accompanied to
32:14
Speaker 1: the door when he broke it down, and I Stephanie
32:18
Speaker 1: has said, and I believe Thomas said. We have spoken
32:21
Speaker 1: with the concierge, front desk person whatever, and he has
32:25
Speaker 1: signed a We've I don't know, we've got a legal document.
32:29
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's called exactly where he and
32:33
Speaker 1: Affiday would be good. He will also probably be spoken
32:38
Speaker 1: to with my attorney to get with our attorney to
32:41
Speaker 1: get a formal I can't remember the name, somebody's legal
32:45
Speaker 1: namest position or whatever. That he did not accompany mister
32:48
Speaker 1: Goldberg to the door. Again, if you look at the lock,
32:51
Speaker 1: the lock doesn't show damage. The swing lock, it doesn't
32:55
Speaker 1: show any damage. In fact, a local TV stations lawyers
32:59
Speaker 1: took it off the air before it was presented because
33:02
Speaker 1: it was so so incriminating that the lock was not
33:06
Speaker 1: damaged by the testimony of whoever said he broke the
33:12
Speaker 1: lock down. We don't know if that lock was ever
33:15
Speaker 1: engaged before Sam entered that apartment, since we don't have
33:21
Speaker 1: any knowledge of a response to Ellen by saying something
33:25
Speaker 1: to the voicemails that Tom Tom that Sam was saying
33:31
Speaker 1: to her, maybe she was not able to answer, or
33:34
Speaker 1: maybe she didn't want to answer. We don't know. We
33:36
Speaker 1: just don't know, but there are no answers. And as
33:40
Speaker 1: you've heard by that piece that you ran, the tone
33:46
Speaker 1: was not that of loving, caring, etc. Also, Sam had
33:51
Speaker 1: been on his cell phone periodically before he came up there.
33:54
Speaker 1: I believe Tom said it wasn't like he was just
33:57
Speaker 1: walking around looking at the stars. He was talking to
34:00
Speaker 1: people on a cell phone. Well, you don't know if
34:02
Speaker 1: there were people there for him to talk to her.
34:04
Speaker 1: What we was talking to there are tremendous things don't
34:08
Speaker 1: make sense. Whoever, and however, that door was finally broken down.
34:15
Speaker 1: Although you see no chipping, no wood, flex no nothing,
34:20
Speaker 1: the locks still intact. Take a listen to what we learned.
34:24
Speaker 1: Here's our friend, doctor Oz. At six thirty three pm,
34:27
Speaker 1: her fiance says he forced open the door to find
34:30
Speaker 1: Ellen dead on the floor of the kitchen. She stabbed
34:34
Speaker 1: twenty times in the chest, neck, and head. It was
34:37
Speaker 1: a knife still lodged in her chest. Ellen was pronounced
34:41
Speaker 1: dead at six forty pm. Investigators evaluating the scene and
34:45
Speaker 1: her autopsy ultimately stated that she died by suicide. There
34:50
Speaker 1: were no obvious signs of an intruder or evidence of
34:53
Speaker 1: a struggle. There was no suicide. I don't understand. How
34:57
Speaker 1: can you possibly, doctor Angel Arnold, you're the MD, I'm
35:02
Speaker 1: just a JD. But how can you possibly stab yourselves
35:05
Speaker 1: yourself twenty times and the chest, the neck, and the head.
35:10
Speaker 1: How can you do that? Nancy? We all know that
35:12
Speaker 1: you can't. That's completely impossible, especially doctor Angie. Take a
35:19
Speaker 1: listen to this. This is our friend with CBS three
35:22
Speaker 1: Philly News, Jan Carbo. She was stabbed twenty times. Half
35:27
Speaker 1: of the wounds to the back of her neck. You
35:29
Speaker 1: talk to any reasonable person and they all say, what
35:34
Speaker 1: the hell is going on? Tom Brennan logged twenty five
35:38
Speaker 1: years with the Pennsylvania State Police and worked at the
35:40
Speaker 1: FBI's Behavioral Science Unit in Quantico, Virginia. Now retired, he
35:45
Speaker 1: has worked nearly seven years pro bono with the Greenberg's
35:48
Speaker 1: investigating Ellen's death. Aide, but the medical examiner's report says
35:53
Speaker 1: there was no sign of a struggle. Nothing was obviously
35:56
Speaker 1: missing or disturbed. Only Ellen's DNA was found on the
35:59
Speaker 1: knife in her nest, and Ellen had no defense injuries
36:02
Speaker 1: to her hands or four arms. Still, Brennan says none
36:05
Speaker 1: of that he proves this was suicide. Didn't they ever
36:08
Speaker 1: hear a blitz where a victim doesn't get the opportunity
36:12
Speaker 1: to defend themselves. I don't get it, Tom Brennan. We're
36:15
Speaker 1: hearing your voice along with John Jankirabee. Did I understand
36:20
Speaker 1: it correctly? They're twenty stab wounds, with half of them
36:23
Speaker 1: bang to the back of the neck, yes, and one
36:27
Speaker 1: to the right side of the scalp. That's six point
36:30
Speaker 1: five centimeters long. So what the hell was that a
36:34
Speaker 1: near miss? How can that possibly be a suicide? I mean,
36:38
Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer, but there's just no way.
36:41
Speaker 1: And Nancy, to all of this, everybody's saying there's a
36:45
Speaker 1: lack of defense rooms, lack of defense rooms. Well, if
36:47
Speaker 1: you take a look at the autopsy photographs, I need
36:51
Speaker 1: to take a look at the victims risks and the
36:54
Speaker 1: way the risks that were examined. Okay, you can see
37:00
Speaker 1: that there's evidence of restraint that there is there are
37:06
Speaker 1: uh defense wolves on the on the victim's risks. So
37:12
Speaker 1: you know, this story about lack of defense wolves is
37:16
Speaker 1: bull and that is a technical legal term that I've
37:19
Speaker 1: used very often in my law practice. Well, I can
37:22
Speaker 1: tell you this, there is no way that this is
37:26
Speaker 1: a suicide. So what now, Nancy Grace killers amongst us
37:33
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,