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Killer Thriller: What Makes An Ordinary Person Commit Murder? · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Robock and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Elisa Donovan.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and welcome back to Killer Thriller.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: In the second part of my conversation with actor David Lasher,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: we are turning to another true crime film from his career,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: and this case is even more unsettling. Twisted Desire is
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: based on the shocking nineteen ninety murders of James and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Kathy Wiseman in rural Virginia. Prosecutors said fourteen year old
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Jessica Wiseman and her seventeen year old boyfriend Douglas Thomas
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: carefully planned the murders because Jessica's parents stood in the
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: way of their relationship. So what drew you to this
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: role or how did it come to you.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: I might have been on hiatus from some show I
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: was doing, so I had that window where you can
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: go off and do a movie. And yeah, it wasn't
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: a huge role, but I think it was integral to
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: the story because this girl wants a relationship with me,
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: with my character so badly, and it's so devastated that
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: her father has ruined it that it sets in motion
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: what she ends up doing, and again she finds some
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: patsy of a guy to murder her father. And also
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: another similarity is Daniel Baldwin is a scary dude whoa
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: he yes, right, Like I remember being there being like
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: this guy is big and thick and his voice and
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: he's just a scary guy.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, his whole demeanor is very intimidating for sure. I
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: mean I think that was probably intentional. Yeah, but it's
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: so to give the plot really quickly, a teenage girl
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: convinced this is an ex con who's in love with
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: her to kill her parents so they can be together.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: But the real thing is she wants to be with
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: your character. So it's really about manipulation and it's twisted,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: and it's based on this real life nineteen ninety double
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: murder of James Baxter and Kathy Wiseman, committed by their
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: fourteen year old daughter and his seventeen year old her
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: seventeen year old boyfriend. But in the movie version of
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the crime, the girl who plots her parents' murders is
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: almost eighteen, who's Melissa's character, and the shooter was a
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: few years older than that. But in reality, they were
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: fourteen and seventeen I mean, did you have a hard
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: time believing that the real people at the center of
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the story, who are fourteen and seventeen?
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I don't remember. I don't remember knowing that.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Off the ages.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they made Melissa eighteen or almost eighteen, and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: then the x con boyfriend love interest was probably like twenty.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: He was out of high school in the movie.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, that was clear. He was working at a gas.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Station, right whe Yeah, yeah, I mean fourteen to seventeen.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: My I mean Scarlett is fourteen. I can't wait. When
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I think about this.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: I'm like, what, Oh my god. Yeah, I mean there's
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: a fourteen year old doesn't even know. They have no
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: way to make, they have no idea what they're doing, right,
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: there's no justification for what that kid did.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: No, No, I mean I think that or do you
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: think that we underestimate how powerful teenagers feelings can be
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: and their relationships. You know, there's so much drama. I
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: know that, As I said, my daughter's fourteen, so there's
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of drama in our house right now. But
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: going from that to actually this, I mean, it's kind
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: of unimaginable.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, the other famous story that I think of
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: is the Menendez brothers, who were you know, even recently
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: claiming that they were physically abused and in danger of
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: their parents and claiming it was self defense. But I
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: don't know, what do you think.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Because in this case, I didn't from everything that I've read,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: it isn't you know. She wasn't even claiming that her
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: parents were abusive. It was just simply I want to
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: be with this person, and they don't like him, like
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: or they don't approve of him. So because this is
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the way. At first, it seems like, you know, it's
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: about one thing, but really it's that this girl is
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: manipulative because they were just overprotective, right.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Well, the way I think they set it up is
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: that the father is very overprotective. Like changing clothes, she
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: asked her, can I go study where? You know? What
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: are you studying for? What task? What class? What period
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: are you studying? You know? And then yeah, you know,
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: the mother is just like, don't talk to your father
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: that way. The mother is just like, you know, let
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: the dad do whatever he wants. Don't protect the daughter
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: at all. There's no excuse for what she did, obviously,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: but it was definitely a very overbearing you know dad
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: right in.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: The So unlike in the in the film where both
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: of the parents are shot in their bed, in real life,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Jessica's mother survived the first gun shot long enough to
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: try to reach her daughter's bedroom, and then she was
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: shot again. And just reading details like that is just
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking. That's an egregious I mean, that's, without a doubt,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: first degree murder.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Did the girl tell him to kill my mom too?
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, she said, both of them, both of them.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, I hope she I hope she's still in jail.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: So she was Jessica. This is one of the most
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: astonishing parts of this whole case is what happened afterwards.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: So Jessica was fourteen and she remained in the juvenile system. Douglas,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the boyfriend, was seventeen and tried as an adult. He
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: was sentenced to death and eventually executed. I mean, does
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: that surprise you. I can tell by the espression on
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: your face that it does.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, you don't hear about a lot of executions,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: especially of a seventeen year old.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I was pretty struck by that too.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: What was her sentence?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: She was released let's see, so at the time, Virginia
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: law did not permit her to be tried as an
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: adult at fourteen, so she was educated delinquent in juvenile
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: court and was committed to a juvenile correctional facility until
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: her twenty first birthday in ninety seven, and she was released.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Why don't she turned twenty one?
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Wow? Twenty one? She was released? So Dick, didn't she
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: do what she did? What Donna did, conspired to murder
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: her dad instead of her husband. Donna got forty years
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: and she whatever, she got twenty seven. Yeah, and this
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: girl got out at twenty one.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: She served seven and she's like the mastermind of the whole.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I don't understand that, as justice.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: And Donna's life was legitimately in danger, this girl just
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: couldn't have the boyfriend she wanted.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Her dad was annoying, just right exactly, I want this
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: boyfriend and my dad's annoying. I don't. I don't understand
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: that at all. So, I mean, this is one of
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: the questions, right of this difficult question of the person
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: who plans the murder just as responsible as the person
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: who actually commits it. And these both these cases and
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: movies sort of take the opposite end of that confusing.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I disagree with that. I think the person that
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: pulls the trigger is the murderer, and that is a
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: bigger crime than paying someone to do it. I mean, right,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: conspiracy to commit murder is you know, a serious things,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: but it means that person didn't have That person is
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: not a killer and not a cold blooded killer. Like
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Donna said, I could never have pulled that trigger.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: And I appreciated in this movie how they show his character.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: He said, I don't know if I can do this.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: You know, he does have those doubts, and then she says,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: what you have to so we can be together. So
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: they really also don't shy away from the twisted, diabolical
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: nature of this girl that even when you know the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: shooters having second thoughts, like maybe this isn't the greatest idea,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: and she's like, no, you have to do it.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well then I don't know. What do you think
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: the person that conspires it and puts it together just
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: as bad.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: No, I think I agree with you. I think when
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: push comes to shove in the moment, you have a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: choice to do it or not, And particularly in this
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: kind of a situation where there's no immediate threat, right,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: It's not like somebody is immediately going to hurt you.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: But I think it is a particular sort of twisted
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: manipulation and manipulative personality that could do this to another person.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. Maybe I'm contradicting myself now because
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking it's still it's still pretty bad what she did.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: But I but I agree with you actually committing the murder.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: That's that's worse. It's worse, all.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Right when you're thinking of the punishment, isn't it about
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: like how long does society think it will take for
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: this person to rehabilitate and not act like this again?
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Right, that's supposed to be what the serving of the
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: time is, right.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I think they're both like this young
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: girl when they let her out of prison. I mean,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: obviously she didn't do this again, but you'd think, like,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: what if someone else gets in her way?
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: What right is this going to be her problem solving
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: tactic for everything?
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: You know, Oh, I'll just flirt with some idiot and
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: have him kill it.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: So Melissa, she was she was like America's sweetheart at
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the time of this movie. I mean, were you surprised
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that she took such a dark role.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: I think I understand why. Right, she was coming off
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: of Oh she was Clarissa, Clarissa, she hitne Clarissa explains
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: it all. And I think she wanted to not be
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: that little Nickelodeon tween kind of actress. She wanted to
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: be do something dramatic. So she's like, let me be
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: a sick you know, twisted, you know, murdering mastermind right right,
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: it made sense. I think it was a good choice
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: for her. I think Paula produced it, probably helped choose
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: the movie, and they did a good job with it.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think. And then I feel like
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Sabrina started probably right after that. Yeah, you're right, So
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I know it was over thirty years ago. But what
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: do you remember the most about making the film.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: I remember just having a really good time. Melissa and
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I got along so well. She was awesome. Charleston was
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: so much fun. Have you ever filmed there?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I haven't filmed there, but I've been to a
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: wedding there which was pretty fun.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Great city, and I mean I remember the Jeremy Jordan
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: that that actor was very eccentric.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Oh really, No, but I thought he was quite good.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: And then I didn't even realize that he was like
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: a pop star or something. Yes, a singer.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was a pop star before this movie. And
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: I thought he did a great job.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I did too, So like his.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Choices I remember were so like not what you'd expect. Yes,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: it was very thoughtful, but he was. He was a
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: unique dude, really, and I think Melissa just couldn't figure.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Him out, right, She was like where's David.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I remember her coming to me being like, what's
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: with this guy?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Oh my god? Maybe he was method, you know, maybe
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: he was like getting deeply into his character. I was
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: very impressed with his work too.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he ended up doing a great job, right. I
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: remember seeing the movie being like no way, oh like surprise. Yeah,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: I was surprised.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Oh man. So getting back to this idea of do
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: we underestimate how powerful teenage relationships can become when the
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: brain isn't fully formed yet and the emotions are big
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and all of that. So I mean, did it did
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: it ever cross your mind like that could this happen
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: in my family? Like now as an adult, do you
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: think about that? Is that?
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: Ah? My god? Well I do have a sixteen year
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: old daughter. That's pretty strong willed and defiant, right, I mean,
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: so is I. But no, I never think of that obviously,
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: But I do think of like that line as a
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: parent where you have to not really care if they
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: like you or they're offended by your choices for them.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: You're their parent, not their friend. And I, you know,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: I fall. My default is like, don't upset anybody. You know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: she wants to go to this party where there's no adults.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Why are we going to stop her? All her friends
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: are going, and Jill's like be her father, Like there's
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: boys there.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: We just we are in the midst. I mean, Scarlett
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: is home today. She's supposed to be at surf camp,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: but she wasn't feeling well, so she's home. I have
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: to I'm gonna have to whisper now. But we were
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: literally just having this conversation over the weekend, Charlie and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I I'm like, uh, okay, so were She's telling me,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: you know, none of my friends like you. They think
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: you're mean. And I have to swallow my feeling of
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: like I want everybody to like me. Aren't I cool?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: You know, to like I don't care if they like me?
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I don't care if they like me and also don't
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: speak to me that way. That's very disrespectful, you know.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: But it's like it's hard, it's but I agree with
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: you. You can't be You're not their friend.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: And teenagers are so they're so sensitive and they know
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: exactly what your sore spots are and how to get
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: to you. She knows that you want to be liked,
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: yes and yes, and they're and their emotions are you know,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: everything is so heavy, like everything, Like I say to
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Chelsea all the time, in five years you're being in college,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: You're not even going to remember any of this, right,
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: these things that you think are the the end of
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: the world, right, like, none of this is going to matter.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Right, the hormones, the hormones. No, they can't see it.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And then how about when the dad he was he's,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: as we said, a very intimidating presence. He goes to
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the party to pick her up. I remember my mom
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: going into a nightclub when I was seventeen and taking
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: me out, and I now, if it was my dad,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I would have had a different reaction. But my mom,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, what are you doing here? How dare
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: you come in here? After me, you know. Meanwhile, she's like,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you said that I did, And I stormed out in
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: front of her and went to my car. And then
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: she said, now, oh, I was so afraid you weren't
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: going to drive home, that you were just going to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: like drive away and never come back. And meanwhile I
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: was sweating it, like I am in so much trouble.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Good, there needs to be still that level of like respect.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: This is my family. These are the only people that
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: love me, like and care about me.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Right. That was not the response of Melissa's character in
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: this movie. She was like, Okay, I guess I have
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: to kill Dad if he since he's come into this.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'll tell you like this this scary. Scariest people
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: in the world are like mentally unstable adolescents.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, like, yes, I was.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Held up one time at gunpoint in New York on
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: sixth Avenue way really with my buddy Doug Ellen. Yeah.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: We we were walking back to his parents' apartment sixth
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: then what fifty seventh, outside of Stelly, right, And it
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: was must have been one in the morning. We're coming
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: home at the end of the night, and these three
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: kids came up to us held a gun. One of
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: them held a gun right in my stomach, and all
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: I kept thinking was, this is a child. He won't
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: even know what he's doing, right, right, Like if you're
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: held up by a thirty year old. This guy knows
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: he's the consequences, but like a sixteen year old kid
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: has no freaking clue what they're doing. They'll look, they'll
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: regret it when they're thirty, but meanwhile you're dead. Yes,
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: so I find like, yeah, mentally unstable young you know,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: adolescents are really scary and dangerous.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I think you are exactly right. It is that the
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: literally their brains are not fully formed, so they can't
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: fully understand consequences and you know, and that desire to
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: have what you want when you want it.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, but this's his character. You know,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: could have used a good therapist and maybe a psychiatrist
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: and some impulse control medication. Correct.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Did working on two movies like this that you know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: based on real murder cases so early in your career
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: have any kind of particular impact on you.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: No, For me, it was kind of about the work
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: and you know, just getting to act in front of
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: the camera and connecting with the different cast members, pleasing
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: the director. I wasn't. I didn't really, but you know what,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: I did a lot of these. When after the Donna
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Yaclick movie ended, Prime Video automatically pulls up Violation of
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Trust starring me and Katie Segal and Charlie the Ross
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: about another freaking true crime, crazy story.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Oh well, guess what You're coming back, David, and we're
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: going to talk about that too.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: And Jill's like, why is Prime Video bringing this up
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: as your next thing to watch? Is it like finding
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: the algorithm David Lasher and real life murders?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Listen, just ask Charlie what our algorithm is. Now everything
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: our Netflix account is under his name and everything that
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: comes up is murder related and trying.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: He's like, oh my god, oh god, you must see
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: the craziest stories.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, oh boy, I sure do. Was making either
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: of these films Cries on Herd or Twist to Desire
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: emotionally heavier than the other, was one more difficult.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Donnie Yaklick one. I just I remember, even
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: though it was so long ago, I do remember walking
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: alone around this prison with my headphones on, listening to
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: sad music, thinking about I even remember the moments in
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: my life. I was thinking about to try and go
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: back in there and have that last scene with her
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: where where I have to cry. I mean, legitimately, he
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: should be crying. I mean he's telling his mom like
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: it's okay, you left me with no one and I understood,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: I still love you, and I remember it being very
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: heavy and sad.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can believe that.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: It's a much sadder story. I mean the cries unheard
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: is kind of sensationalists, like just a crazy teenager. Really
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: nothing more than that, like tragedy.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: The twisted desire, right, yeah, I'm sorry.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Twisted twisted desire was just more like you know, it
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: seemed like an entertaining story where I didn't feel so
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: sad for the character I was working with. Yeah, like
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Jacqueline Smith and that character and what she did to
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: her husband and to her son was so sad, right, Like, you.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Don't feel any there's no kind of redemption or sense
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: of justice in the end because you kind of you
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: don't want her husband to be alive. I mean, this
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: is a horrible man. But then you also don't want
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: her to.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: Say they killed him. I was like, go check, make
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: sure he's dead. I was sure he was going to
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: get up and be like.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: You right, right, But so she says that in the
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: things in the some of the video that I watched
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: of her, of the real Donna speaking later, and the.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Transcripts that I've read where she says, I was, you know,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I was waiting for him to get up when he
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: was in the driveway. I just kept thinking, he's going
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: to get up, and he's going to come after me.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: That's what jud and I thought watching it, like is
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: he dead? Like make sure he's dead? Is that scary?
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I mean that guy deserved to die
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: because he was going to kill her, right.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting the son, Denny, who you play, he
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: did in real life support his mom much like it's
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: reflected in the movie. But then there's another apparently there's
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: another daughter, not the Hillary Swank character, another daughter who
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: has a whole different story and is like, the mom
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: made it up and my dad was a perfect man,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: and but you know, these are always yes. And I
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: just don't personally think it is feasible nor possible for
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: a woman to make up all of this abuse to
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: such a degree, Like it's just it's crazy. This is
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: like a kid who just didn't see it or doesn't
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: want to believe there could be a bad man.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Well, Hilary Swank's character lived in the house with them
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: and testified for Donna that this was true. And Donna's
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: sister also was a wakener saw the whole thing. I mean,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's possible that she made all this up.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: No, no, neither do I. Okay, let's go for one second,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: go back to the twisted Desire that Melissa joh Hart movie.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Than that case, do you think that it is ultimately
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: about love, obsession, manipulation, or something else entirely? What do
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you think that's about?
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I think twisted desire. If it's about anything, it's about
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: adolescent mental health. I mean, this girl, for her to
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: be able to do this with no conscience, I'm not
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm not a psychiatrist. And you can use
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: the word sociopath or some sort of diagnosis, but you
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: know she was a sick kid.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: This is a great answer.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: And triggered by a father that you know pushed her
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: too far. But you know, to kill both their parents
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: or have them both killed, and manipulate this guy into
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: doing it with no conscience, That to me that's what
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: the movie is about, is a really crazy sick teenager.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is an excellent answer.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they're look, we see we see sick
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: teenagers do crazy tragic stuff way too often. I mean
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: it's still you know, it still happens.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Yep. Well, David, this has been such a pleasure. Thank
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: you so much. I love getting to see her face,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: even if if it's not quite in person. And this
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: is so great. We've never you know, I've never seen
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I had never seen these movies before, and you know,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: it's not a surprise what your work is so great
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: in it, and it's just nice to now kind of
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: have that backdrop for you. Now I feel like I
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: know you even better.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: All Right, thank you so much. Everybody,