Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 8-10) (6/19/26)

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Mega Edition: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 8-10) (6/19/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
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back to the interview given by the warden at MCC
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to the OIG investigators. Question does that now tell you
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anything about this court documentation regarding the WAB Answer? Yeah, now,
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it explains that they had gotten a court order to
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have them go out. Question So what do you think
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is referred to in that documentation? Answer? I guess it
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must be that all these documents right here, question this
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answer yes, question, So what we're actually looking at you
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think she's referring to? Answer? I think that's what she
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was referring to. Question all right, So court documentation meaning
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documentation from the Martiall Service saying that he was going
0:54
to be transferred. Answer right, question all right, now, based
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upon what you're looking at here, specifically from the Marshall
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Service and the fact that Efrin Reyus, whom is it?
1:06
I've been told that everyone at the MCC knew who
1:09
Reyes was because they knew he was Epstein cell mate. Answer,
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uh huh. Question, But at the very least everyone in
1:17
the shoe should have known who Effrin Reyus was. Answer right,
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question because he was Epstein cell mate. What should have happened?
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Once on August eighth, as early as ten thirty three
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am and as late as three thirty three pm the
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day before Reyes is transferred. What should have happened? Answer
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as far as Epstein getting a cell mate? Question correct,
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the notifications being made that this person's being transferred, everyone
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gathers them up and so what this I'm going to
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read this just to give you more information on his backtrack.
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This is a memorandum dated August the twelfth, twenty nineteen,
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to the warden yourself from redacted who my understanding is
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he was the OIC of the Shoe at the time.
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Answer right question. It says that the subject passed information
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from Special Housing Unit SO on Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen,
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at approximately one fifty pm, I SOS redacted passed on
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to oncoming staff member Officer redacted and President shipstaff SOS redacted.
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An officer redacted that inmate Reys was going WAB and
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possibly may not return. Also that inmate Epstein will be
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needing a cell made upon arrival from his attorney's visit. Now,
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what this doesnt state is that Officer redacted or sos walked,
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I mean both Epstein, Hayes pipes in I'll get to
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that question as well as Reyes down to R and
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D with all the belongings, spoke with both mister Epstein
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and mister Reyes and stated to mister I think Reyes
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stated or redacted, make sure you get him a cell mate.
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I'm not coming back, and redacted responding to mister Epstein saying,
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don't worry, We're going to get you a new cell
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mate now. With all the information being that he is
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the OIC, he's working in the shoe, and he knows
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that he's WAB, We've got all this stuff going on.
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This is the really big reason why I want to
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talk to you as the warden. This is the kind
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of primary purpose for us being here. So I apologize
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if you are going into that, but I want you
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to have all the information before I answer. What should
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have happened here? So R and D is contacted the
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day before or two days before Epstein or Epstein is found,
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one day before Reyes is found, you know gone. They
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contacted both custody as well as R and D. R
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and D pre removes them at eight thirty eight on
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August ninth, the shoe oice walks him down to R
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and D and actually has this conversation with Epstein and Reyes, saying,
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I know you are WAB. We're going to get you
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new staff, We're going to get you a new cell mate.
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Hayes pipes in, what does WAB mean? Answer with all
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belongings means they're not coming back, Hayes. But Epstein is
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not coming back. Question No, answer is cell mate, Reyes.
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So the theory is this is Hayes speaking if you
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were investigating somebody says that you're not going to have
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a cell mate anymore, and in that conversation or present
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during that conversation is Epstein. Question Epstein's present yes, Hayes. Okay,
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So Epstein knows that he is not going to have
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a cell mate for the immediate future. Question No, Epstein
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is going to an attorney conference. So he's going to
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be in an attorney conference until about seven pm. Hayes. No, No,
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But I'm saying that Epstein knows that over the next say,
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twenty four hours, he's not going to have a cell mate.
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Answer or a question excuse me, no, redacted. The OC
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tells Epstein, as well as Reyes, that they are going
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to get him a cell mate before he comes back
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from his attorney. Client, his attorney visit Hayes. Okay, so
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Epstein would know that he hasn't or going to have
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a cell mate. Question. Yeah, yeah, so this isn't the
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part of the theory. What my question to your client
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is what should have happened based upon the knowledge that
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he was WAB the contact with the Marshall Service telling
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him that he's being transferred, the fact that R and D,
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you know, the OC walked him down to R and D,
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and R and D actually logged him out of our system,
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what should have happened? Answer? So, what should have happened
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was this information should have been passed up to the supervisors.
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Question at what point? Answer C With this information coming in,
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as far as you know, when R and D, typically
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it would come to the special Housing unit. Once it
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got up to that, to the special Housing unit, the
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lieutenants should have been notified. Question Okay, in which lieutenant? Answer?
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Whoever was the shoe lieutenant? Whoever was the operations lieutenant? Question? Now,
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on this case, the shoe lieutenant is also on leave,
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so we've got the chief psychologist on leave. The ward no,
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leave the shoe lieutenant on leave, but we do have
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an ops lieutenant, we do have an activities lieutenant, and
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we do have a captain. Answer, so you should have
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let the operations lieutenant know if you didn't have a
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shoe lieutenant, they in turn would let the captain know,
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and the captain would push it up to the execs.
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Then then we would have to come to the determination
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on who we were going to house with Epstein. Question Now,
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if the operations lieutenant his name is redacted, if he says, yes,
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I know Epstein was gone, but I believe that he
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was at court and he might be returning back. Answer no,
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you mean Reyes is gone? Question so Dacton knows that Sorry,
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did I say Epstein? Answer? Yeah, you said Epstein. Question yes,
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redacted knows that Reyes is gone, but I think he's
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at court and then he might be coming back. I
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didn't pass this information onto my relief who was redacted phonetic. However,
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as our investigation has revealed, the obsolute tenant also has
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one of these court production lists that lists Reyes as
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wab with that knowledge. Is that a reason that he
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thinks that he went to court and might be coming back. Answer.
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I can't interpret what he the thought process was. But
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if it said, you know, he was leaving, and I
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don't know what he was reading at the time. He
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could have been reading because sometimes the inmates do go
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out to court and come back, so I don't know
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I can't speak to what he read or why he
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made that determination. And once again, mister Hayes Pipes in
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so listen. Wouldn't have most inmates when they go to
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court come back. Question the point being here he didn't
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go too. He was transferred. Question and I know you
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might have covered this in your understanding in your experience
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at MCC. If an inmate is listed as WAB with
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all belongings, what is your understanding? Are they coming back
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or are they gone? Answer? That means he's transferring. Question
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Has there been situations where they came back? Answer? There
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have been situations that you know, they go out and
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they have to have them come back if there was
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an issue. Question Is that a unique situation or it
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happens quite often? Answer? No, I wouldn't say. I wouldn't
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say that it's probably unique, but usually WAB they're gone. Question. So,
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as the operations lieutenant, if you see somebody listed as WAB.
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Should he have understood that the person is gone and
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not coming back? Answer? Should have. But then you're talking
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off the document. I don't know what document they read,
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so I don't want to speculate that, you know, was it,
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you know, send them to R and D, whether he
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saw that. I don't know what document, but I'm saying,
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if it's this document that clearly stated WAB. Question Okay,
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But as far as you're concern, it doesn't sound like
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what you were saying is redacted. Who was the OIC
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at the time. Should have notified the OPOS lieutenant? Answer? Yeah,
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whoever's in there should have notified the operations lieutenant. Hey
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rays left and he needs a sell mate. Question okay,
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So would it falls solely on the shoulders of redacted? Answer? No?
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I mean okay, So here's the other checks and balance.
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So what about the other people on the other shift?
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Question that's my question? Answer? Yeah, question so the people
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that are working on the same shift. Answer yeah, on
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his own same shift. If it was a notification, it
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should have been made to the operations lieutenant or the
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captain and said, hey, sellmate left, he needs a cell mate.
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Question Okay, Hayes pipes up once again, and that cell
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mate would Now at some point he goes back to
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the cell, but that's at the end of the day.
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Answer at the end of the day, Hayes. Okay, So
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nobody is in a position to say, hey, he's in
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a cell by himself until the end of the day.
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Answer by the warden, right, but the information has passed
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on to each other, you know, he gets cut off
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by the investigator and they're supposed to be doing thirty
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minute rounds where they would notice that one cell had
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zero inmates in it, Hayes. And that's what brings us
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all here today, the warden, I mean, that's how it
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would have made And when that got pushed up, we
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would have said, okay, we have a formula. Okay, who
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can we get to be a cell mate for Epstein question?
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And I apologize to ask this because but like so
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on each shift, because of the OIC, what would be
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responsible for that? So, for instance, would redacted beyond the
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day ship up until two pm, he would be the
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one who is responsible to provide the absolute tenant. But
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then the following shift, would it be the next OIC
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or would the people that are working in that unit
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the other shoe staff, would they be responsible or is
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that a chain of command thing? Like? No, the OIC
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is really the person making that notification. Answer. Everybody has
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a responsibility for their safety. Everybody. I mean I might
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be the OIC, but I have some responsibilities if I know, okay,
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you know what. They might need a sell mate because I,
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in essence, I can have an individual assigned to that
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post and they're just filling in for somebody that the
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regular person that's up there, and then I have the
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regular people working up there who are familiar with what's
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going on. So it's kind of everyone's responsibility, you know. Question,
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So is everyone kind of equally responsible then for this
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that was working there and didn't pass the information on?
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And to this lawyer Hayes interjects once again, can you say,
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don't guess? Answer? I mean it should have been it
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should have been passed on. So I don't know the
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dynamics too, as far as what was going on that day,
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who was working up there, what rounds were being made
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up there? You know, was the lieutenant coming around? Was
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the captain? How busy were they? Question? So the lieutenant
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was not on the Lieutenant of the shoe was not on. However,
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we do have records that the Activities lieutenant at least
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visited the shoe at that point. Answer, you have two
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other lieutenants. Now, I don't know if you are familiar
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with the Special Housing unit, but it is a very
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busy unit. You know, you're a given out showers, you're
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given out recreation, You're doing a whole lot of stuff,
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you know, running around all day, and you know, sometimes
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things happen. Question understood, But in this case, wasn't Epstein
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at your most high profile inmate at the time? Answer,
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I mean, besides my terrorist inmates that I had up
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on ten soeuths. Question Well, I guess yes, at least
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the nine South. Answer I would say that he was
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high profile. Yeah, he was a high profile in matate.
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Question is it? I mean on that note, don't you
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think that they would have, you know, found it pretty
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important to notify especially they and I don't know what
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brought this today, but there were even signs up that
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they created saying mandatory thirty minute rounds on Epstein, signed
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by God or something you know, along those lines, not
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you know, meaning like do this you know? Answer no,
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that was me mister Hayes, is that right? Answer? That
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was me? I mean, I mean, but it was emphasized
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to them. I mean, so no one could say they
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didn't no question. So point being, there was like signs
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specific to even Epstein check on this guy every thirty minutes.
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Answer right question. You know orange signs that are posted
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up there. Answer right question. So point being with this
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he gets cut off by the warden. It should have
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been passed stuff question and that is where So for us,
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I guess again, and I know that you're probably trying to,
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you know, hesitate on maybe saying like this person did something,
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but really who dropped the ball here? Knowing though that
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you could take a look the day before. All these
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people are the ones that received the email and custody
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and so I know we see lieutenant redacted. I'm sure
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assuming redacted would be on there. But again, this one,
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that one is not even as clear. This one specifically
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spells out he gets cut off by the warden. Yeah,
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picks back up this one. You would actually have to
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go in and look at the prisoner's schedule report. Answer well, yeah,
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so the prisoner's schedule report is something like this, but
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it will tell you that they're either going to like
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transfer or they're going to go to court, whereas his
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other document that was sent to R and D just
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specifically about the transfer. Hayes pipes in, Okay, but there
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is nothing that says recreation, personal care. It's mostly going
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to and from court or le the institution. Question. Yeah,
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because it's a prisoner schedule Hayes, okay, question, So it's
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like what their schedule to do. Sorry, yeah, No, it's
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not like what their daily schedule is like in the institution. Hayes, right. Question,
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it's a US Marshall Service report that that's provided to
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the GOOP, so they know which inmates they need to
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produce and for what reasons? Question now is that correct answer? Yes? Question,
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so yeah, based upon what you're looking at here on
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the eighth and then again what we know about redacted
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at the very least producing at eight knowing he was WAB,
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and R and D knowing he was WAB, what should
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have happened there? Like, who, in your opinion here dropped
15:48
the ball? Answer? I think at all levels it was
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the checks and balances. If it went to the lieutenant's office,
15:55
somebody should have picked it up. Somebody in the unit
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it should have been passed up to the lieutenant's office,
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so there were a couple of safety nets that could
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have caught it. Question so pretty much everybody dropped the ball. Answer.
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I mean, if we're looking at it like this, if
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you are saying going by an email being sent around question, well,
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not only the email, but I mean the email. I
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can understand if people are busy and they don't always
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you know this one. It would be hard to that one,
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would be hard to, you know, say that you didn't
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know this one. I could see maybe you know the
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prisoner's schedule. Indiscernible answer. I mean, I don't know what
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gets sent out. I know that this whole thing, I
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don't know if that got sent out to the staff.
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I think more of a condensed version. All right, folks,
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we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
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episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
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we left off. All the information that goes with this
16:48
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
16:51
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
16:55
this episode, we're going to pick up where we left
16:57
off with the warden from mcc and this interview with
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the OIG inspectors. Question, do you know if they are
17:05
actually looking like the Lieutenant's office, people in the lieutenant's
17:08
office or the oppos lieutenant activities Lieutenant? Are they actually
17:12
looking like at the list and saying or that's just
17:16
based upon the business of their day. Answer? Yeah, I
17:21
wouldn't speculate. I mean, I don't know. I can't say
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what the lieutenant's looking at and stuff like that. I mean,
17:28
it's like the documents question. No, I mean, but should
17:32
they have I guess is the question? Answer as far
17:35
as what emails that are coming through on who's leaving question? No, No,
17:40
this would be physical paper that they were provided. Internal
17:46
would go around and provide everybody with this physical paper
17:49
that they create and then they apparently destroy it at
17:52
the end of the day. Answer right, So I don't
17:54
know if the you know, the internal gets the forums
17:57
to go. They're dropping it off at different units, So
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I don't know if if one was passed off to
18:02
the lieutenant, the lieutenant would I would guess this probably
18:06
be the only document they tear up. Question. We're being
18:10
told by the lieutenants as well as by R and
18:13
D they all have it, and they all and it
18:16
would all it would have said, WAB. Unfortunately, I haven't
18:20
found the document to show you this is what I'm
18:22
referring to, but it's a document they apparently create, which
18:26
they call the court production list. Answer the court list.
18:30
I've heard of the court list question, but it's like,
18:34
from my understanding, it's informal document that they are just
18:38
providing so that you know, these are the people that
18:41
we need to produce today. Answer for internal. Yeah, the
18:46
internal officer goes around and drops them off at you know,
18:50
every unit, like hey, I need this guy, I need
18:52
that guy. It's a court list. Question in the morning.
18:56
Answer exactly. So, yeah, that's not anything that's kept on RECAD.
19:00
Question right. So I guess the question though, being that
19:03
they had these court lists, is another one of these
19:05
checks and balances or is it that really just for
19:08
the special housing unit. Answer? I think they you mean,
19:12
as far as the court list. I don't understand the question. Question. Yeah,
19:16
it's just getting back to the point of like reyis left.
19:19
We were notified on the eighth. He left on the
19:21
morning of the ninth. Epstein was found on the tenth,
19:25
didn't have a cell mate for twenty four hours, and
19:27
we knew for almost forty eight hours. What should have
19:30
happened and who didn't do their job is really the question? Answer?
19:35
And like I said before, when the notification, whoever was
19:38
on the unit knew that he was leaving, it should
19:40
have been passed up to his supervisor question, all right, answer,
19:47
this guy's leaving. But then, okay, let's say the soup
19:50
or whoever is working in there doesn't do it, and
19:52
somebody should have stepped up and said, hey, this guy
19:55
needs a cell mate and notified the lieutenant that he
19:57
needs a cell mate. Question, And that goes back to
20:02
anyone that was working in the shoe should have made
20:04
that notification. Answer, should have said it. It doesn't just
20:08
because you're not no IC doesn't mean all the responsibility
20:12
falls on you. It's everybody's job up there to say, hey, okay,
20:16
we need to you know, this is what we need
20:18
to do. Question. And that would be the case for
20:23
when he left during the day shift. The next shift
20:26
is the night shift, when he would I believe during
20:29
the night shift he would have come back. And again,
20:31
if they were doing rounds, they would have noticed that
20:34
Reyes wasn't there in the first place. But also certainly
20:38
when they brought Epstein back to his cell, there would
20:41
have been no cell mate in there. Answer. You should
20:45
have known he was a cell mate. Question. And would
20:49
it be the same thing for the morning shift that
20:51
they would know that Epstein's in there alone? Answer? Because
20:55
if the morning shift is doing their thirty minute checks,
20:57
you would have realized he was in there by himself. Question. So,
21:02
should have every single shift reported it to the oppsos
21:04
lieutenant that there was no one he gets cut off
21:07
by the warden. Whoever caught it should have you know,
21:10
let's say one shift missed it, the next shift should
21:12
have picked up and said, you know, called and said, lieutenant,
21:15
we got a guy that needs a cell mate. Question
21:20
and again, I know we're Monday morning quarterbacking because of
21:23
the result here. But what is your as the warden
21:26
of the institution on these dates, how do you interpret this?
21:29
Is this really a significant failure on their part the
21:33
not have caught this and passed the information up. Answer,
21:37
it's not following the directive, I mean, and then look
21:40
at the result. So, I mean the result is what
21:43
you know caused it to be a serious matter. Question. Now,
21:48
as far as going back to this memo, do you
21:50
know why mister redacted wrote this memo? Answer I forgot.
21:55
I might have called I might have called Lieutenant redacted
21:57
and said, and I don't know if he was working,
22:00
king said what happened up there? Question? Now, when you
22:03
say redacted because he was the oppos lieutenant or are
22:06
you talking about redacted? Who was the shoe lieutenant? Answer?
22:11
Who was the operations? Because first I know when I
22:14
got back somebody told me redacted wasn't at work, because
22:18
that was my first question, who was the shoe lieutenant?
22:20
Where they at? And when I think I did reach
22:23
out to redacted and said what happened up there? And
22:27
that's when I found out and found that out. Question
22:31
And did you ever speak with either redacted or redacted
22:33
about this? Answer? No question, okay, answer because by the
22:38
time I had gotten it, it was the day that
22:41
I got the day of when I had to go
22:43
up I think the US Attorney's Office question, okay to
22:48
speak with them about this? Answer When I speaked up
22:50
to them, and then the agent had the memorandum. Question
22:54
he already had it on him. Answer, He had it
22:57
on him because he was it was during the end
23:00
interrogation he presented it to the US attorney. That was
23:03
their question. And was that the first time that you
23:06
had seen it? Answer? No, I don't recall when the
23:09
first I saw it, but I know I had gotten it,
23:12
and I don't know if I had gotten it and
23:13
then sent it up to my boss and then given
23:16
it to the IG. I forgot. I forget his name
23:20
and who was handling the case question for the IG?
23:24
Answer yeah, if you weren't giving it to indiscernible, it
23:28
would have been redacted. Answer because he sat in there
23:31
with us, so he I remember he had a copy
23:34
of it because he had told him that they knew
23:38
that they were supposed to He gets cut off by
23:41
the investigator. So not including when you were speaking with
23:44
the OIG and the FBI, did you discuss this at
23:47
all with anyone from BOP such as redacted or redacted? Answer? No,
23:54
I just got the memorandum and that was it, because
23:57
I was like wanting to know, like what happened? Then
24:00
you know the directives were given what happened? Question? And
24:05
when you asked what happened? Was there a verbal response? Answer?
24:09
It was a verbal response question what did you what
24:12
were you told? Question that they knew he was supposed
24:16
to that Redacted had passed it on to the other
24:18
individuals about it. Question, now, do you think that what
24:23
is your thought process of redacted? Who is the one
24:25
who actually presented excuse me, Rayis to R and D
24:29
and wab What is your thought of him now saying
24:32
you know, prior to the end of my shift at
24:35
two pm, I passed it on to the next guy,
24:37
saying that you guys got to do it. Do you
24:40
think he should have done it, passed the information on
24:43
during a shift? Answer? Yeah, absolutely, it should have been
24:46
letting the lieutenants know that they that this We got
24:50
a guy that needs a selly answer. I should clarify
24:53
that question what answer I think on the elevator it
24:57
was redacted reacted escorting Rayis down to R and D,
25:02
and redacted was escorting Epstein over to attorney conference. They
25:05
just happened across paths. Question Yeah, they were together though, right.
25:09
Answer Yeah, but I think redacted is the one who
25:13
brought him down to the Reyis down to R and D. Question.
25:18
Then that would make sense because if redacted is internal
25:21
internal takes them to court. Answer, and then if somebody
25:25
is going to R and D, I mean to an
25:26
attorney visit, then it would be the shoe staff taking them.
25:29
Question all right, so if redacted is the one who
25:32
was actually providing him to R and D, did he
25:34
have a responsibility that if he was WAB to make
25:38
any notification? Answer? I don't know if internal you know
25:43
redacted was internal, And I don't know if you or
25:46
if he knew you know the situation. Question and typically
25:50
would it be internal's job if they come and collect
25:52
somebody as WAB, would it be their job to tell
25:55
control or the absolute tenant to say this guy is
25:58
off our books or any or he gets cut off.
26:02
Answer no, because we have a lot of inmates that
26:05
move in and out. Question sure answer, so he wouldn't
26:09
be able to keep track of every particular inmate that's
26:12
going and coming. Question Okay, basically everyone had a share
26:17
of the responsibilities. Answer indiscernible. Question. All right, before we
26:22
belabor this thing anymore, we want to just initial inundate
26:25
these both documents. We can get them out of your
26:27
way and move on. Answer all of them. Question yeah,
26:33
top of this and top of this question this guy
26:36
you know this one? All right? Thank you sir. Now,
26:40
prior to this meeting, did you know that Reyes was
26:42
actually transferred at MCC didn't go to court? Answer wait
26:47
prior to when question this meeting? Answer? Oh, no, I
26:51
knew he I heard that, you know after his death
26:54
that he was removed, that he was transferred when I
26:58
came in on Saturday. Question were you acquired or I mean,
27:03
were you aware that the Marshall Service had sent those
27:05
emails on August eighth, twenty nineteen. Answer I was not aware.
27:10
Question no, Well, did anyone ever prior to August tenth?
27:14
Did anyone ever make you aware that Reyes was transferred
27:17
from the institution? Answer prior to October tenth? Question August tenth,
27:23
twenty nineteen. Answer. I found out when I came in
27:26
that morning because I was like, where's his cell mate? Question? Okay,
27:31
so you didn't know that he didn't have a cell
27:33
mate on August ninth. Answer no, I did not. Question Now,
27:39
who was ultimately responsible to make sure that Epstein had
27:42
a cell mate? Answer? I mean, if it's the directive
27:46
that's given out, I mean, whoever's working decide passes it
27:49
up and then that ensures, you know, to make sure
27:52
that he has a cell mate. Question so shoe staff
27:56
Answer whoever was working up there. Okay, when you say
28:01
working up there, does that include like lieutenants doing lieutenant
28:04
rounds and things like that? Answer? Well, yeah, from what transpired,
28:09
it's obvious the lieutenants didn't know. I mean they knew
28:12
he was based on the emails that you know, they
28:14
knew he was leaving. But as far as when he
28:16
finally was out of it, then you realize, okay, Ray,
28:20
this is gone. You take Epstein, you bring him back
28:23
up in his cell and he doesn't have a cell mate.
28:25
I mean, something should have went off on somebody to
28:28
make some notification. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up
28:31
right here, and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
28:33
we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the
28:36
information that goes with this episode can be found in
28:39
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
28:42
episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
28:46
to dive right back in to the interview by MCC's
28:50
former warden with the OIG inspectors question, Now, what about
28:57
in this case whereas you actually weren't work working that day,
29:01
should they have called you? Answer? Yeah, whoever was the
29:04
acting warden? Question? That would make the determination answer. She
29:10
would have made the determination question. Who is the acting
29:13
warden that day? Do you know? Answer? I don't know.
29:16
If I left redacted or redacted as the acting question
29:21
one of those two answer, it would be one of
29:23
those two question and it wouldn't be the redacted answer. No,
29:29
he's the executive assistant. Question Now, what's the difference between
29:33
like an executive assistant and an A and W. Answer?
29:37
The associate warden is GS fourteen and the executive assistant
29:42
is A thirteen. Question Okay, so they're not He gets
29:46
cut off by the warden. No question, But what is
29:50
the executive assistant? Just mainly to assist you in your functions? Answer?
29:54
He assists in the functions. I had also given him
29:58
some other departments to monitor question mm hmm answer, so
30:03
they manage also those other apartments. And now one of
30:06
the other investigators jumps in and asks a question of
30:10
the warden. I just got a question. I don't know
30:13
if you may be asked him about the backup list?
30:16
Was there a backup list of names? Answer for question?
30:20
I think we did talk about it. But if Rays
30:24
he gets cut off when we talked about it. If
30:26
Rays was removed because the institution always has people coming
30:30
and going so frequently. Was there like a list that
30:33
was set in place that we would now consider these
30:36
people or would it be just a whole new He
30:38
gets cut off by the warden. No, because we would
30:42
have to base it on who was there? Question? Okay,
30:46
answer because of the turnover in the unit. Question. All right,
30:50
now we're going to get into counts. So this is
30:53
an email sent from you to mister REDACTID. It's the
30:57
count slip four. It was sent on Saturday, August tenth,
31:01
twenty nineteen, at five eleven pm. This show ZA is
31:06
the shoe correct answer right question. So this says at
31:09
a ten, it shows that the count for ZA was
31:12
seventy three, signed by Michael Thomas and miss Noel answer yeah,
31:17
question and it says that the count was done. It
31:21
looks like at twelve oh one am. And then we
31:24
get to the next one and that's at three am.
31:27
It goes down to seventy two. At five am there
31:30
is seventy two. And here is the count, the institutional count.
31:34
It shows seventy two at what time twelve am or no,
31:38
this one is three am. I don't know why this
31:41
is all out of order. Five am. So at twelve
31:44
this says seventy two. Answer. I think that was just
31:49
an attachment to the email that you sent. Question so,
31:53
but as you know, as you notice, one of them said,
31:56
so the count slip said seventy three four to twelve
31:59
over the instiantitutional count and as you see here for
32:02
twelve am, it said seventy two. And to that, mister Hayes,
32:07
the lawyer for the warden jumps in, by the institution
32:10
you mean the shoe question, No, the institution, the warden,
32:15
it means the whole question MCC does account and it's
32:20
the official count question. The shoe these counts slips are
32:26
supposed to be. Actually you can answer my question. What's
32:30
supposed to be the difference between what happens with the
32:33
count slip and what happens with the institutional count. So
32:36
I'm not answering your question. Answer, So, what happens is
32:40
on the shift do you call the count and the
32:42
different units call in the count to control center? Question
32:46
and how do they get that count number? Answer from counting.
32:49
They have to go around and count question physically accounting
32:53
an inmate answer, You have to physically count the bodies question,
32:57
and then they take the total amount of it inmates
33:00
and they call that into the control center. Answer. They
33:04
call it into the control center. Question and where does
33:07
the control center get their numbers from? Answer? This is
33:11
what's called an E one, which is a print out
33:15
of the number of inmates in each unit. Question right answer.
33:19
So if in an instance, for example, we look at
33:21
the BA unit, so they're supposed to be twenty six
33:24
in there. If somebody calls it in there they say
33:27
it says twenty five. They tell me it's a bad count,
33:30
so they have to go back and count again. Question.
33:34
So the E one is created based upon what inmates
33:38
are listed within your system? Answer right. Question. The count
33:42
slips are based upon how many inmates they actually count?
33:45
Answer what they count? Question? And the purpose of that
33:49
is what why are the inmates counting inmates? And why
33:51
are they providing that number to control Answer? So we
33:56
make sure every inmate is in the institution. Question the
33:59
account of bil of the inmates? Correct answer? Yes, question great,
34:04
So does that answer your question the other investigator? Yep? Question.
34:11
So the next email is sent about one hour later
34:14
at six thirteen pm on August tenth. It says, why
34:17
did the count change from seventy three to seventy two
34:20
twelve am to three am. Answer, uh huh. Question do
34:24
you remember what your response was to that? Answer? I
34:28
do not. Question. And then this one is another one
34:31
from redacted to yourself. It says the twelve am count
34:35
slip reads seventy three and the twelve am says seventy two,
34:40
so those kind of go together. Do you remember what
34:42
your findings were there? Answer? I don't remember, because typically
34:46
what happens on the count, you're supposed to be the
34:48
lieutenant is supposed to take one count at night and
34:51
then review documentation. So I don't know what happened with
34:54
the discrepancy. His lawyer jumps in, mister Hayes, I mean,
35:00
and this isn't really what's relevant because we noted Epstein
35:03
was there. Question No, it's relevant for our investigation, all right,
35:08
So if you don't mind just initially and dating that,
35:11
and then we can explain to you why that's all relevant.
35:14
So you don't, though, recall you don't find out what
35:17
actually happened. Answer, I don't recall what the responses I gave.
35:22
Question No, and do you remember looking into it at all? Answer?
35:27
When was that sent question that was sent the day
35:30
of the day of Epstein that he was found. Answer,
35:36
I don't because it was just too much going on
35:39
that I can't really remember how I responded to them
35:42
that day. Question do you remember learning anything about the
35:45
accuracy or inaccuracy of the counts on the ninth and tenth? Answer?
35:49
What do you mean the accuracy and inaccuracy? Question like
35:53
if the counts were actually accurate or not? I don't
35:57
recall that. Answer You don't recall finding out about that?
36:00
Answer no. Question did you recall did you find out
36:04
if the shoe counts and rounds were not conducted by
36:07
the shoe on August ninth or tenth, twenty nineteen by
36:10
the shoe staff? Answer if they did rounds or not?
36:14
Question correct? Did you find out if the shoe staff
36:18
had conducted both thirty minute rounds as well as the
36:20
institution counts on August ninth and tenth? Answer I don't know.
36:25
If it was after the fact that I was told
36:27
that the officer did make the rounds, and I don't
36:29
recall if it was they put it in the log
36:32
book and they made rounds, but that in all actuality
36:36
it wasn't done. Question okay. Answer, So that might have
36:40
been something that came up afterwards. Question, But you're not
36:44
super you know this, You don't really know what happened
36:47
or didn't happen. Answer that day because I mean it
36:50
happened that weekend. Everything was moving, and then by Monday
36:53
everything else had changed. Question right, So but on the
36:57
tenth or the eleventh you didn't hear anything answer? I
37:03
didn't hear anything about or recall anything about that question.
37:08
But had you heard that they didn't at least conduct
37:10
some of their rounds and counts? Answer that they didn't
37:14
question that they did not answer. I don't want to
37:18
use the word that. It was just, you know, an assumption,
37:21
you know, like because one of them I had asked
37:23
them to come up and speak with but it was Thomas,
37:25
and he wouldn't come up. Question And this was on
37:28
the tenth in the morning. Answer. This was on the
37:31
tenth when we got him because I wanted to speak
37:33
with him because people were telling me he was distraught,
37:36
so I wanted to make sure he was all right,
37:38
you know, and he just he didn't want to come
37:40
up and talk. Question, what are your thoughts of Thomas
37:45
as an employee? Answer? I've known Thomas a couple of years.
37:49
I never had any issues with them. You know, it
37:51
was any you know, like any other employee. You do something,
37:54
I correct you on the spot, and that's it. But
37:56
I have never encountered him to do anything to count
38:00
do his job. You know. Question what about miss Tavin Noel? Answer?
38:05
She was new, so she had just gotten there. You know,
38:08
she got the same speel for me that everybody else does.
38:11
You know, you're new, you can't do the things. That's
38:13
somebody at twenty that has twenty years in. They're not
38:17
doing their job. You shouldn't be following it. Question and
38:21
did you actually speak with her about that? Answer? Oh?
38:25
I do that in my indiscernible class when they first
38:28
come in. Question. Okay, so that's something you would have
38:32
said to everybody. Answer, Oh, I said it clear as day,
38:36
the same thing I would say in my art class
38:38
annual refresh her training question because this is one of
38:43
her excuses saying that twenty year guys, I'm following them,
38:47
they're not doing it, so I'm not doing it. Is
38:49
that something you clearly entrust to her? Answer? So here's
38:54
my speech, my spiel. I used to tell people I said,
38:58
go ahead, follow that twenty year guy and you're on probation.
39:01
Guess what happens, he might get some time in the street.
39:04
You're getting fired. Answer and you're confident that Miss Noel
39:08
have heard that speech from you? Answer? She heard that
39:11
speech from me? Question? Okay, answer, Yeah, I'm confident that's
39:15
the speech I give everybody, same thing in the art
39:19
question Okay, good enough, all right, So this is going
39:24
to go back. This is just a little list that
39:26
I wrote of exactly what happened, and then I'll read
39:29
it to you, and I just want just for our purposes,
39:33
I'm going to show you and you can refer to
39:35
them on this one. At first, going to be the
39:37
count on the ninth that was conducted. Is this four pm?
39:41
Is this four pm? Or five pm? Here? Four pm?
39:45
Four pm count? They're just signed off. Yeah, it's five sorry,
39:50
five o'clock twelve twelve, three and five? Answer, No, No,
39:55
this is afternoon. Question Yeah, so this is Friday, so
39:58
three and five. So these are basically the time period
40:01
in question everywhere from four pm through the five am
40:05
count the next day on August ninth and tenth. Answer, Okay, question,
40:10
here are the lieutenant logs, and these are the emails. Again,
40:13
I'm going just to go over these because so I'm
40:16
not pulling things out of thin air. The emails that
40:21
we were able to obtain. So this was from redacted,
40:24
who was the obsol lieutenant at the time and during
40:27
the morning watch. So this one was sent from her
40:30
on Saturday, August tenth, twenty nineteen, at nine twenty six am.
40:34
It says, there are the August tenth, twenty nineteen daily
40:38
Activity Report and then we got the daily lieutenant's log here.
40:43
So where would this This is just out of order.
40:46
This should have been first. So Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen,
40:50
she sends one at So first I want to ask
40:52
this question. So on Friday August ninth, twenty nineteen, she
40:57
sends one at five eleven, and Saturday she sends one
41:02
at nine twenty six am, and on Sunday, August eleventh,
41:05
twenty nineteen, she sends it at six fifteen am. Now,
41:09
reviewing all of the lieutenant lugs that come out prior
41:12
to that time, they're all sent out pretty much between
41:15
five and six am by all the various Ops lieutenants.
41:19
Do you find it odd that she didn't send this
41:21
one out until nine twenty six am. Being that I
41:24
know Epstein was found at six thirty three am, but
41:27
typically they were sent out much earlier than that. Is
41:30
that I know she sent it out after the incident
41:33
and after, you know, everything happened. But do you think
41:35
it's weird that she sent that one out at nine
41:38
twenty six am versus prior to that six thirty three
41:42
am when her shift ends at six am. Answer, I
41:46
mean she was relieved at five thirty am by Lieutenant redacted.
41:52
Answer that's what I'm saying. She wasn't when I got there,
41:54
Lieutenant redacted was lieutenant? Question correct? Answer whom atacted me
42:00
regarding he gets cut off by the investigator? She was
42:04
supposed to be gone at five thirty am. Answer by
42:07
the warden. So yeah, I don't know if she left
42:09
at five thirty am or whatever. I don't know how
42:13
they indiscernible. Question, Well, that's when she was relieved. She
42:17
didn't leave until after this was sent at nine twenty
42:20
six am. Answer. I don't recall her being in the
42:23
institution around then. Question. After Epstein was found, she actually
42:28
went into the shoe She helped with feeding, and then
42:31
she went back and she did some things on the
42:33
computer and she sent it. Answer. I thought Redacted relieved
42:40
her and she left. Question at five thirty am. She
42:43
was relieved. She stuck around because she said she had
42:46
work to do. After Epstein was found, she came to
42:49
the shoe and assisted Redacted, who was working in the
42:52
shoe but was there because he was the contact guy.
42:55
And at the time Thomas was gone, Noel was there.
42:58
But at some point Noel left. Answer And I'm looking
43:02
at this, but I was under the impression when Redacted
43:05
had told me he had relieved her and she left. Question.
43:09
So do you find that odd then that she was
43:11
still there until at least nine thirty am. Answer? Yeah,
43:15
I didn't. Yeah. Question, this is the first time that
43:18
you're hearing of this. Answer, Yeah, because when I was
43:21
told she was gone. So unless I mean, I mean,
43:25
he relieved her. So I guess technically, when you relieve somebody,
43:28
then it becomes your issue. So I was talking to
43:31
Lieutenant Redacted, but I didn't want you know, I assumed
43:34
that she was the one that but I heard that
43:36
she left. I didn't know she came back. Question. She
43:39
allegedly did not come back. She allegedly was there the
43:43
entire time? Answer? So, then that is kind of odd
43:46
because usually your log is completed before you leave question
43:50
right answer on your log, you'll write on there, I'm
43:54
relieved by such and such question. So is that suspicious
44:00
to you at all? Answer? Kind of yeah, but I'm
44:03
curious as to why you didn't log it down or something.
44:06
All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
44:08
in the next episode we're gonna pick up where we
44:10
left off. All the information that goes with this episode
44:13
can be found in the description box.