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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 385 - For Context... · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Shop and be made up.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: And shop revent of any sage's juice, tear up the
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: true down and rareshole from the junis a mob. David
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: b U being mister Foods in.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: The pure awenness. It's raining night, chill, the lights stoping
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: result times, never re ries men of a basting you
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: and stop the red for.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: You to see and here we go. What's up, everybody?
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome In, Welcome In. This is the Longngoming Podcast. This
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: is episode number three and eighty five. For context, that's
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: what I called it. I'm the Triple B, Big Bad Bob.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Welcome In, Welcome In. It's just my cameroon. Yeah. I
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: was going through and trying to find some of the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: new files that supposedly got released back in January when
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: they dropped all the Epstein files, and I think I
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: found some and again no smoking guns per se, just
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: some more things that help with the context and the
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: mindset of the CIA the FBI in general, that lets
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: you kind of know what these people were thinking and
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: how they went about things a little bit, and I
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: can kind of see why some of these files weren't
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: released before. Now it's at a little methody, a little
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: it gives a little bit of things away there. But
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: before we get into everything, I would like to well
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: welcome everybody into here, if I may, South to West
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: with the gold medal, Baby Trey with the silver, and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Mike the library man with the bronze. Welcome in, folks,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Glad to see you here. James once more into the breach,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: dear friends. Yes, there is no there is no coming back.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: With context and pretext and plain text and hypertext for context.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: You get it. Mike, Paulinichi, Paulinichi, Hello, sir and everyone,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Big Tone, Big Tone is in the house. Tony Holman,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Happy Friday to you as well, sir, and from Peach
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Sister's kitchen is up in the house. Happy Friday. And
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: for those of you who missed it, and that our members.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: We went through some of Anne's videos that she sent
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: me the last members only. Also, I neglected to mention
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: this on Wednesday night, but she was able to go
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: see Clay Shaw's diary and take some pictures of it.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Problem man, is, most of the photos are blurry once
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I blow them up big enough to see here. But
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: they're very interesting and could be full of coded language
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: if you will a lot of references to what he's eating,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: what was for dinner, what time he goes to bed,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: type of thing thing. It's very interesting, very interesting. So
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: maybe you guys can discuss in the chat with Anne
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: if you want to know more about clay Shaw's diary. Toops,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: mister Toops with the Toops Evening.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: Sir.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Sir shot a Lot aka William Fairy, David William Ferry,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Sir shot a Lot, Yes, what's up, Sir Trey pretext
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: our protext and context, Yes, pros and cons text. Timothy Ryan, Hello,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen. Hello, Hello, Let's see who else we
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: got here? The d Dubs in the house. Derek Ward,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Happy Friday. Everybody that's right, Halllijah Southwest. Yes it is I,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: It is I. Biggath, Babbeth and Bobbath, Yes, yes, yes,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: mm hmmm, Oh Lord, where are we? Sally? Hello? Lovely
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Sally Evening, Sally, Oh man ac to the DC. Doug
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Campbell is in the house. What's up, buddy? Glad you
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: could make it, Sir, Glad, you could make it, and
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I'll see your ass in the morning, right and early, sir,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: you know this man, mister Ashley morning. Bob tuning in
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: from down Under, the thunder from down Under? What's up?
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Ash Paul Denietzsche, mister Fatty our buckle is in the house.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: The CIA War in the sixties, what's messy? Yes, I agree,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: mister David. Mister David, you are on. It's mister Derek Schwindeman.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: What's up? What's up? You are up? I am up,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: We are up, and we're about to turn this sum
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: bitch up to eighty here in a second, as soon
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: as I get through this labyrinth of folks. My god, Yes,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: and you missed true videos? Uh, okay, you can type
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: the journal pages and we don't have to go through
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: all that work. I can see what they I can
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: see what they say. I just to share them here.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: It's very difficult to h They're just a little blurry.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: And there are some of them, some of them, not
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: all of them, but some of them are a little
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: hard to read. That's all, no big deal it, slacker Dan,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: How the three b How you doing? I'm doing, I
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: is doing doing. I'm here, It's Friday. I'm glad to
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: be here with all you folks.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I think I hit everybody. I'm good lord kiss yeah.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: First off, and let me say this I did see
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: on the socials. Bill Kelly uh passed away like two
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: weeks ago. Apparently he ran the UH the blog JFK
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Counter Coup. He was also a member of Kappa and
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: very active in the JFK assassination research scene. Did a
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: lot of good work, helped a lot of people with
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: his research. So rip Bill Kelly. I got to meet
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: him in twenty eighteen when I was in Dallas. Very
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: nice guy. Nothing bad to say about the man. So
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: rest in peace, Bill Kelly. We lost another soldier. But
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: now you know, all right, folks, let's see here. I'm
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: gonna tempt to show you something because I want to
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: get your thoughts and it's gonna kind of be important
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: once we get into some of these documents. So let
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: me try. This didn't work out very well last time,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: but we're gonna try again. We're gon't try again? Is
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: it media? Share a local video or add video? Let's
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: try this one.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: M M.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I apologize, folks, this didn't work very well when I
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: was trying to do as videos last week. But and
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure why, and I look like an ass
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: hat because you say you couldn't hear a video. And
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: then I play a video again and you could hear
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: her while I'm talking over like kind of narrating. The
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: second video was a very odd so to say, Day
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: sixteen of exposing. Okay, before we get too far, can
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: you see this and hear this? Dude? Let me know
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: in the comments. Can you see and hear this dude
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: before I start playing it? Yep? Yes, we can. Volume up.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: You turn your volume up. Minds up as loud as
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: it'll go. So you turn your volume up, James. So
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: let's see here, Here we go. It's three minutes. Bear
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: with me. Wait a minute, my mic volume is bad. Hello,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: testing My mic volume is bad, is what you're saying? Really?
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: My levels are good? You quiet today? What the shit? Man?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm so quiet. Let me see
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: what's going on here. Alright, my volume's up to eleven um,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: microphones up. Nobody's been fucking with my shit. But I'll
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: try to turn myself up. How's that sound, folks? Okay? Now, okay,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: all right, here we go three minutes. I'll be right back.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: Conservatives was a virtuous Christian pastor who just wanted peace
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: and for society to judge people based.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: On the content of their character. Rather than the color
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: of their skin. Schools are named after this guy. You
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: spend years learning about him as a kid.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: He's the only man to have his own federal holiday,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: plus monument, statue, streets, you get the idea. Turns out
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: everything about this guy was alive. First off, m Okay
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: actually rejected the divinity of Christ. He wrote a whole
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: essay saying that calling Christ's divine is actually detrimental and harmful.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: He also criticized the Bible for containing legends and myths,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: even described the virgin birth as downright improbable. This is
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: not very Christian, but he was selected purposefully to be
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: the figurehead of this movement rather than other influential black
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: figures at the time, guys like Jackie Robinson, because it
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: was thought that he'd be able to use Christian language
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: to appeal to America, even though his actual agenda was
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: like completely different, and that was when it was his writing.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: It turns out he plagiarized nearly everything else. Scholars from
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: Stanford University and the King Papers Project found in nineteen
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: ninety the MLK plagiarize nearly all of his other works,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: including his doctoral dissertation, but Boston University refused to revoke
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: his doctorate, even though in literally any other case they
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: would have what a privilege?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, but like, what was his real agenda? Dude? So true?
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Turns out King was a Communist for his entire career.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: He attended the Highlander Folk School in nineteen fifty seven,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: which was a Communist Party USA front for training radicals.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: His right hand man, Byered Rustin, founded the Southern Christian
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Leadership Council with him, was also a young Communist League
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: member who attended Communist Party USA conferences. Of his main
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: advisors was Stanley Levinson, also happened to be a big
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: financier and supporter of Communist Party USA. Ghost wrote a
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: ton of stuff for King, including the famous I Have
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: a Dream speech. Also, King's biographer David Garrow revealed the
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: King would frequently call himself a Marxist when conversing with
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: close friends. He also totally supported reparations and affirmative action.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: In fact, he gave a Playboy interview in nineteen sixty
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: four where he essentially called for a fifty billion dollar
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: program to basically just like give black people free money. Also,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: as his close friend Ralph Abernathy spilled in his memoir.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: King liked to embezzled donations for alcohol, drugs, hookers. On
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: speaking tours, he would hire prostitutes for hotel orgies, lasting
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: days at a time. One time, he was caught on
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: tape actually laughing while a woman was sexually assaulted in
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: front of him in a hotel room. Even the night
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: before his assassination, Abernathy said he betted two women and
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: beat a third in his Memphis hotel. The FBI has
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: all the tapes, even though a judge ordered them sealed
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: until twenty twenty seven. That's how King spent his last
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: night on earth after delivering his biblically inspired mountaintop speech
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: in Memphis. Lastly, the claim that MLK was some like
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: peace loving guy not exactly true.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: He of course went to great lengths to present himself
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: as this.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: Peaceful activist, but that was mostly an optics thing, and
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: one of his most famous speeches, King rationalized riots by
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: calling them the language of the unheard. So yeah, King
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: was just trying to like cover his ass. He knew
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: that the fear of rioting and looting could be used
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: as something that could coerce white people into accepting race communism.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: In fact, this was so obvious that there were literally
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: newspaper cartoons at the time making fun of how ridiculous
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: and false this all was. I guess the peaceful protest
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: strategy in twenty twenty wasn't really that new. So, No,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Mlka was not a real Christian. He was not a
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: virtuous man. He was not a real doctor, he was
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: not some colorblind conservative, and he was not committed to peace.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: He would be just as woke as all of his
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: colleagues ended up being if he were still alive today.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I did a whole hour long breakdown of this on
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: my YouTube channel, go check it out Day sixteen of
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: exposing So Martin Luther King to many Americans, even to
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: many conservatives, was this virtuous Christian pastor who just.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Went, Okay, let me see if I can get that
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: off there and back to me. Uh So, if you
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: remember there was a lot of surveillance being done, maybe
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I need to just get this some bitch closer to me.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: There's been a lot of FBI surveillance being done on
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Martin Luther King back in the sixties, a lot of allegations,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of accusations and Dan, yeah, I don't know,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: we'll see be nice. We know that these things allegedly exist,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of this stuff in the new
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: releases of files actually, but we'll get there. But before
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: we do, we're gonna just I got a ship pile
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: of documents here. We're just gonna go through them and
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: no no order whatsoever. You know, the more I do this,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the more conspiratorial mindset is that I get. The older
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that I get, the more that I learn, the more
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: that I see when it comes to history and the
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: truth of history. You know, you always hear these little colloquialisms.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: You know, history is written by the victors. Uh type
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: of thing. And uh, sadly that's very true. You know,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: we're taught certain things where fed distress actions to kind
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: of distract us from passing down the truth of this information.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: You know, for those of us lucky enough to have
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: been around when our great grandparents were still alive or
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: our grandparents were still alive, you know, by the time
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: that current affairs were happening. Kids are going to school.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I know someone my age, my grandparents were taught in
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: like a one room schoolhouse in the middle of nowhere,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: very much off the grid, very basic stuff. I think
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: my grandfather had like an eighth grade education and he's
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: one of the smartest men I ever knew. So, but then,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: you know, by the time of the baby boomers, you know,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: you have this generation that are born, you know, when
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of these soldiers are coming home from the war,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and when we were talking about our history when it
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: comes to world affairs and everything else, a lot of
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: it starts with modern politics, if you will, in the forties,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: late forties, early fifties, you know, with the advent of radio, television,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: things like that. Before before radio and TV, I mean,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: it was hard for people to really give a shit
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: or and even know what was going on unless you
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: read newspapers. And by the time you've got news hell,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: it might be a month old. And at that point
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: it's history, right, So when you stop to think about
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: all these things, it's kind of mind blowing. But I digress.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Let me get off my shitty slippery slope box, slippery
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: soapbox here. So this first document we're gonna be talking
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: about here today is actually dated November twenty four to
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: sixty three, and it's to mister Clyde Tolson from Alan Belmont.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: It's to number two from the number three apparently subject
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald victim. Now, if you know history,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: you know the date November twenty fourth, nineteen sixty three. Well,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: that's the day that Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: when he's in custody. Right, So the FBI is talking
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: to each other about this, and this is what they
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: have to say, folks. I talked to Specialation in Charge Shanklin,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: that's Gordon Shanklin of the Dallas office on the afternoon
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: of November twenty fourth and advised him that inspector was
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: flying down to Dallas leaving Washington at five point fifteen
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: in view of the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald by Ruby.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Now what this means is we're sending the big dogs
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: in to take care of the clowns show down in
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: fucking Dallas. Okay, so be prepared. The President is very
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: much concerned over the second shooting, as it will depict
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: the US around the world as a lawless jungle where
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: even though a man is in custody of the police,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: law enforcement is not able to control the situation. All right. Also,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: what this means the FBI is pissed because now the
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: United States looks even more like a clown show in
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: the eyes of the world. Right A Deputy Attorney General,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Nicholas Katzenback, has advised that section two forty one of
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Tiedawa eighteen, the lynching Statute lynching lynching, is applicable from
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: a technical standpoint in view of the fact that we
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: notified the police last night and again this morning of
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: the telephone warning that Oswald was going to be killed.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Now are they talking here? Did they want to lynch
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Jack Ruby or they want to lynch Jesse Curry or
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Captain Fritz. I mean, I'm not familiar with the lynching statute,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't sound good, uh. I told Shanklin that
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: we don't want to get into an argument with the
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: police or get to the point of demanding demanding that
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Ruby returned over to us in view of the primary
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: jurisdiction of the police in the murder or assault case. However,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: we have jurisdiction under section two forty one the lynching Statute,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: and it is essential that our agents interview Ruby. I
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: told Shanklin that, of course, our investigation of this shooting
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: encompasses not only a thorough investigation of Ruby and his motives,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: tracing his activities back and to his associates, but also
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: encompassed the problem whether the police were directing their duty
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: in protecting Oswald while he was in their custody. Well,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: obviously they were, because Oswalt's dead. Hello. I also told
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Shanklin to go to Chief Curry personally and try to
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: get him and his officers to stay off the air
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: and television. Advise the Chief that by making the statements
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: he and lieutenant friends are making, he is providing strong
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: ammunition for the defense Council to claim his client cannot
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: get a fair trial and demand to change a venue.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I told Shanklin to be specific with the Chief on
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: this point. That means shut the f up and stay
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: off television, you dumbass. Shanklin called me back later to
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: advise that he had talked to the Chief as directed,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: and that the Chief was broken up and started crying
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: and admitted that he was wrong in appearing on television
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: and radio, and then he won't do it anymore. So
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: the FBI admonished Jesse Curry so badly that this grown
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: ass man starts crying and apologizing to the phoebees, what
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: are we doing? The Chief said he had trouble controlling Fritz. Well,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: you know you're the boss, Curry, figure it out. Shanklin
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: told him that that was his problem, and that he
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: was hurting the case and the evidence by these statements
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: and appearances. Curry reiterated that he would put a stop
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: to it. I called Shanklin's attention to the reports that
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Ruby was an underworld character who fled from Chicago, and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: we should run a complete check on his background, associates,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: and activities, and the Chicago office should telephonically be advised
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: to do this also and send in a teletype. And
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: that is from Alan Belmont. Also see Seed on this mombo.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: And of course Rose and Conrad de Loach and Sullivan.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Curiously missing off of this is Hoola hoof jacka Hoova.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: But again this was from to Clyde Tolson letting them
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: know what was going on. So this is going up
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: the ladder, up the ladder. Very interesting stuff there, yelling
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: at Chief Curry till he cries, come on, come on, Mike,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: gotta give up your white stestin in Dallas. If you cry, right,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's no crying in baseball. What are we
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: doing here? What are we doing here? And yes, Trey
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: excellent point, there are no true white hats and black
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: hats in history. I'm still shocked how people make heroes
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: of current political figures, knowing the track record of these
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: types historically. I know. I the more I look into history,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: the more I realize that what we've been taught is
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: total horseshit. And I'm not really going to get into
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: it here because this ain't the venue for it. But uh,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: just know that we have been lied to a lot
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: about history. And I mean, I think we all know that.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: So let's hop right into another one here, shall we.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: This one is from February tenth, nineteen and sixty four,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: And this is another FBI document to mister Moore, who
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: was a swinging dick at the FBI. From Karthur de Loach,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: another swinging dick at the FBI again, February tenth, nineteen
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: sixty four, subject allegation that Oswald was an FBI in
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: format Okay, now what's interesting here is this document mentions
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: some interesting people. So let's get into it. Reference my
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: memorandum to you February seventh. Hey, that's my birthday, nineteen
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: sixty four. That is not my birthday, indicating that J.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Sour Wine Chief Council of the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: That's the SISS and that identity was priorly redacted on
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: this document. So they didn't want to know you, They
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: didn't want anybody to know who this guy was. J.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Sour Wine again, Chief Council of the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee, Okay,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: had indicated, feeling pressure being put on him that he
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: would contact his sources of information to see that if
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: that source would talk to me relative to the above
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: captioned allegation, meaning that Oswald was an FBI informant. So
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: what they're trying to say here is, uh that somehow J. Soerwine,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: the Chief Counsel of the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee, has
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: a source that told him that Oswald was an FBI
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: infim So now the FBI wants to know who this
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: guy is, who told you that buddy, who told you
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: that we need to talk to them, We need we
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: needed to see where this is coming from kind of thing, right, Sue,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: he has a very interesting source, mister sour Wine does
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: He also said, uh. Sarah Wine had also indicated and
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: had reiterated several times that his source had confirmed this
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: allegation with the CIA. So what he's saying is that
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Sarawuine said, look, the guy told me that Oswald was
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: an FBI formant. Confirmed this with the CIA. The CIA said, Yep,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you're right, he sure was.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: So.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Sorajuine advised he had contacted his source and in view
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: of the seriousness of this situation, his source had agreed
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: to be identified. He named his source as pardon noir,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Colonel Philip Corso. Maybe you've heard of him, who is
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: currently employed by racist Senator Strom Thurman, the Democrat to
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: South Carolina. Sour Wine also indicated that Corso had agreed
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to be interviewed by the FBI. So shit's about to
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: get real interesting, folks. I contacted Colonel Phillip Corso in
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Senator Thurmon's office at approximately three fifteen pm on February tenth,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four. Harry Dent and Fred Buzzert, Senator Thurman's
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: administrative and legislative assistants, sat in on the interview. Meaning lawyers,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: both men have been very cooperative in the past. I'm
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: sure they have. I had not previously met Colonel Corso, however,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: understand that he formerly worked for General Trudeau in Army
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: intelligence and had some contacts with the FBI at that time.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Colonel Corso, upon meeting him and throughout the interview, gave
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: me the definite impression of being a rather shifty eyed
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: individual who fashions himself a great intelligence expert. As a
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: matter of fact, it was quite difficult to pin him
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: down with questions, insomuch as he insisted on expounding his
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: theories rather than sticking to specifics. I told Corso the
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: information received from Sarawine and that he had been named
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: as a source. I told him, excuse me, the alligator
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: shit hold on. Pardon me, folks, I feel like I
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: got a spider crawling out of my throat there. Pardon me.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I told him that the allegation that Oswald was a
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: f informant was absolutely false. Again, this is a representative
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: from the FBI telling Corso sours that he's wrong. The
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: point was made that mister Hoover had submitted a sworn
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: affidavit to the Warrant Commission emphatically denying these charges, and
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: that I desired Colonel Corso to read the affidavit at
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: this time. I told him additionally that if his allegation
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: had been made by other people, I would like to
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: know the names of these people so they could be
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: dealt with, I mean confronted, I mean question. He told
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: me the only other person he'd discussed the allegation with
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: was old Senator strom Thurman. Colonel Corso stated that he
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: did not need to read the affidavit that I handed
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: him in so much as he would take the FBI's
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: word that Oswald was not an informant. I don't need
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: to read that. I'll take your word for it. I
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: told him, regardless of his confidence, that he should read
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: the affidavit. He then scanned it quite hurriedly and handed
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: it back to me. Okay, I got you. I told
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Corso that I would have to insist that he revealed
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: the identity of his source within the CIA that confirmed
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: this allegation. He stated that he could not do this
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: insomuch as his source represented groups or individuals that he
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: had been friends of his when he was handling intelligence
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: for the army. He stated he did not like to
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: violate their confidence. I told him that he should realize
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: that his allegation was a very serious one which could
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: do considerable damage to the FBI if it became widely publicized.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I mentioned additionally that his refusal might, of course, result
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: in being subpoened or requested to testify before the Warrant
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Commission concerning the withholding of evidence. Now, if I am
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: not mistaken, isn't wasn't Colonel Phillip Corso uh mixed up
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: in like Project blue Book and a bunch of UFO shit?
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Tiny help me out here if I'm remembering correctly. Oh yeah,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: James just popped up and said, uh. Corso later claimed
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: to be a head Pentagon, to head a Pentagon project
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: that reverse engineered Roswell UFOs. That's what I thought. That's
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: what I thought. So there's that. So then it has
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: here sensitive foreign intelligence sources and or methods have been
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: redacted here, but now they are unredacted. So let's dive
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: right into it. Oh, Jerome Corso wrote a Roswell book.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: So there's two different Corsos. There's a Philip and a Jerome.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: That's weird. Okay, we got our corsos mixed up. Apparently
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know me noing, No, Look now tiny's playing dumb.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm talking about? You know those saucers
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: that fly that nobody has identified what they are? Really?
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: You know, come on, Tiny, you know what I'm talking about,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: right right? Okay, So it is Philip Corso. It's the
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: same Corso? Is it Corso? The same Corso? Right? Oh? Tiny?
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I was asking if this Colonel Philip Corso that we're
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: talking to here was uh involved with the UFO shit
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: in the sixties, like Project blue Book, you know, military
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: intelligence about UFOs, because I think Colonel Corso was in
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: the How Happened the Army or Air Force? Yeah, he
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: wrote the book today after Roswell Jerome is of course
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: he not a Corso o. Thank you, Paula. All right,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: let's quit while we are ahead, folks. I'm getting very confused.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Well back to Philip Corso, all right, now, see I
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: knew this was gonna have the same guy. I don't know.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I'm just as confused as you are. Project blue Balls,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Uh no, that was That was a David Ferry project.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about Project Blue Book about UFOs. But I
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: could be wrong. I mean, this guy sounds like the
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Corso guy that was in on the UFO stuff. I
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: don't know. Maybe it is, maybe it doesn't. If it is,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: it's interesting. If it's not, then we just wasted like
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: five minutes. But back to the document. They are two
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: different men. Okay, okay, gotcha, so, okay, he did not
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: want to reveal his sources, it says Colonel Corso began
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: ted backtrack. He stated that his sources had merely told
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: him that they knew the FBI had been in contact
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: with Oswald prior to the assassination of the president. Now
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: that's a whole different thing then the allegation that Oswald
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: was an FBI informant. The FBI had been in contact
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: with Oswald prior to the assassination, which we all know.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Was it just to talk to him and interview him
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and keep tabs on and type of thing, or when
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: he asked him to come to jail, I don't know.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: He quickly added that his sources within the CIA also
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: felt that Oswald's activity while in the Soviet Union represented
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: a State Department operation, which is basically like telegone yourself. Uh,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: you know a lot of CIA covers within the State Department.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's others as well, but yeah, you understand
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: where I'm coming from here. Courso indicated that if Oswald
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: had been an informant while in the Soviet Union, he
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: would have submitted reports to three US employees of the
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: American Embassy in Moscow. He named these individuals as Angeli,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: John Vincent Abadan, and Hugh Montgomery. Courso stated that Angelia
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Montgomery had been declared persona on Grada by the Soviet
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: government and told to leave the Soviet Union. Courso indicated
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: that while he was still with the army, he received
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: a tip that the three named individuals had received reports
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: from a double agent within the Soviet Union. He stated
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: this double agent could have been Oswald. I asked him
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: if he had any specifics or proof. He stated he
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: could not prove any of these statements that he just said.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: He then added that his entire matter might be an
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: assumption on the part of the CIA, insomuch as his
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: sources had no definite facts whatsoever. I told Corso that
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I wanted to go back over our conversation and to
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: be a specific because possible. I asked him point blank
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: if his sources within the CIA had named Oswald as
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: an informant to him. I asked him for a direct answer.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: He slowly replied that groups or persons within the CIA
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: whom he had known for a long time had told
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: him that Oswald could could have been a source of
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: information for the FBI. He stated that the same groups
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: or persons also indicated that Oswald's residents in the Soviet
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Union represented a State Department operation aka CIA operation of
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Courso added that there was a Communist Party member, supposedly
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: in Texas by the name of Stanford, who knew that
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Oswald had been an FBI source of information and had
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: related this fact to other parties. Well, that's news to them. Why.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: We asked Corso how he knew this. He stated he
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: could not recall his sources. Apparently Stanford had also been
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: interviewed by someone and had given them this information. I
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: told Corso that his ability to be nonspecific was somewhat amazing.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: He told me he was well versed in the intelligence
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: game and knew how CIA and State Department operated. He
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: stated he had no sympathy for CIA inso much. I mean,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I will say this, Kartha Deloche used. I mean, he'd
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: loved the word inso much and I don't think I've
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: ever said it more in one day than just in
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: the past ten minutes. Inso much as I'm choking. He
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: told me he had no sympathy. Okay, yeah, at this
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: stage of the quest uestioning, Corso again approached the melodramatic
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: by emphatically claiming that he'd been concerned only in this
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: manner because he was afraid that the Communists were promoting
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: a deliberate smear against the FBI. I asked why he
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: brought in the Communist Party when he had originally claimed
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: that this information had come from the CIA. He stated
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: that the information furnished by the communist Stanford apparently represented
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: a deliberate smear attempt on the part of the Communists.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I told Corso, in the presence of Denton Buzzard the lawyers,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: that he had seen me carefully making notes during our
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: entire conversation, and I planned to hold him to the
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: substance of these notes, and then that I would be
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: sharing these notes with j edgo Over laid over a
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: scotch possibly on the rocks, possibly insomuch as him and
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Clyde Tolsen love it. At this point, Racist Senator strom
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Thurmann entered the room, and I advised him completely of
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: the falseness of the allegations and exhibited him to the
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: affidavit in question. The senator replied that he hoped that
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Corso could comply with our request. I will follow with
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Corso regarding this. On February eleventh, there is attached a
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: yellow colored slip of paper which Corso handed me naming
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: three American State Department employees who might have had contact
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: with Oswald and the Soviet Union. Blah blah blah uh. Frankly,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: considering Corso's personality and evasiveness, there is a distinct possibility
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: that he made up this allegation strictly based upon his
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: own theories. I will, of course follow him closely until
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: we get an answer as to his alleged sources of
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: information within the CIA. Sincerely, Carthur DeLoach, mister Cartha MacArthur
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: de Loach. Interesting, So again, these aren't smoking gun documents,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: but it does give you a window into how they
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: were reacting to things, situations, allegations the FBI.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: That is.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Very interesting stuff here, and this is a good one.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: So we go from nineteen and sixty four. Let's see,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: let's see what Tiny had to say here. Unidentified Aerial
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Phenomenon or UFO is following the authority of the US
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Air Force OSI offers of special investigations. Yeah, but wasn't
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: the Air Force part of the Army at some point.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know when they split. Yep, James, sounds like
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Corso was full of crapo. I agree. But this is
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: how these allegations get spun out, man, and not just
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: by randos, but by fucking lieutenant colonels that are CIA connected,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: that have done business with provided an intelligence for in
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: the past. It doesn't boil down to much more than
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: a couple guys bullshitting and taken for granted that the
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: other one knows what the hell they're talking about. What's up?
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: T busy?
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: What up?
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Welcome? Welcome in? All right? So this next one, we're
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: jumping from god nineteen sixty four to nineteen seventy six.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: You may be thinking, well, what the hell is this
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: got to do with the the Kennedy assassination. Well, you
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: gotta remember they were doing things in the seventies as
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: well when it comes to the Church Committee and the HCA. Right.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: So this is dated June eleventh, nineteen seventy six, and
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: it's a memorandum for the chief of SAG, the Security
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Analyst Group Tiny. What is SAG? Is it much like JAG?
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: Subject Gerald Patrick Hemming On June ninth, nineteen sixty nine.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Dan Dan in quotes of the d DOO Guatemala Desk
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: contacted staff and Operations Branch Operational Evaluation Section for information
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: concerning Gerald Patrick Hemming that sounds quite official and hard
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: to say, Dan in quotes was referred to the was
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: referred to the writer who is holding the Heming file.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: When Dan contacted the writer who is holding the Hemming file,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Dan advised that he is the action officer from a
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: cable from the Guatemala station reporting an assassination plot on
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: the life of President Logger route of probably not saying
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: that right. Dan was unfamiliar with the case of Gerald
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Patrick Hemming and has not yet reviewed the two of
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: one file on Himing. Dan was requested to alert c
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: ICE staff and JAM wave to the below mentioned cable
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: and to provide the writer with a copy of the
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: report coming in from the Guatemala station. Dan provided the
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: writer with the copy of the cable dated June eighth,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six, which is attached and substance the cable
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: reflects it Somewhere around June eight, seventy six, a Guatemalan
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: source with the knowledge of Guatemalan President Logarude provided the
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Guatemala Station a written report a detailed briefing concerning a
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: plot to assassinate President Lagarude. According to the information, the
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: plot was to have been carried out on September fifteenth,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five. However, one of the major conspirators a
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Jorge Antonio Kochi Zamari Safi. That's a lot of fucking names.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Man Jorge Antonio Kochi Zamari Safi left Guatemala in August
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: seventy five as a result of an attack upon his
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Zamari's life. Zamari has been living in Miami since August
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: seventy five. According to the report, the National Liberation Movement
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: was involved with Zamari in the assassination plot, and Zamerian
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: turn was involved with two American brothers, Robert and Gerald
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Patrick Hemming. The Heming brothers assisted Zamari in acquiring arms,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: among other things, which were flown to Guatemala in a
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: small aircraft. The report also claims that Zamari has close
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: relations with police officials in Miami and New Orleans. Folks,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: this is nineteen seventy five, and Hemming and his brother
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: are still involved in possible political assassinations. Gun running, acquiring arms,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: doing dumb shit nineteen seventy five, who note the Guatemala
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: station also included an information the chief of station had
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: received from as Do one on eight June. ASD one,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: that's esdw one said that he had been providing information
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: on the Marria to the Guatemalan government for the past
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: six months. He claimed that two Americans were involved with
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: to marry one of them who runs a guard service
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: in Miami. As Do one did not mention names, but
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: describe one of the Americans as about six foot four
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: inches of weighing two hundred and thirty pounds. The Guatema
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: all In report of the assassination plot ends with five
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: requests for information by President Lagarud So apparently they foiled
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: this plot, but President Locker Root of Guatemala is questioning
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: the CIA about this and specifically about Zamari and the
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Heming brothers. Number One, Lagaru wants to know is the
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Mary still in the United States? Yes?
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: Or no?
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: In the event of Mary is not in the United
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: States legally, he wants him deported to Guatemala, so he can,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: you know, formally arrest him, I'm sure and give him
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: due process and fair trial lawyers, right, is the Mary
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: recruiting mercenaries in the United States for possible future use
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: in Guatemala. So now locker Root is worried about maybe
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: second attempt. Does the Mary receive any kind of preferential
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: treatment by US authorities which would permit him to carry firearms?
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Excuse me, as well as purchase arms and ammunition for
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: shipman to Guatemala.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: I e.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: He wants to know if it's a Mary is CIA.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: And lastly number five, any information at all he wants
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: on Robert and Gerald Patrick Hemming. I'm sure he does.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Dan of the Guatemala Desk advised the d DOO is
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: referring the entire matter to the FBI in the State
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Department because they don't want to mess with it. Office
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: of Security Indices are negative impertinent variations of the names
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: of Mary or Robert Hemming. Notice how they did not
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: deny Jerry Hemming. Okay, when they do when they run
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: security indices, that is when they search everything to see
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: if they're tied to somebody somehow, or that that they've
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: paid that person, or that person's an employee or that
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: person's an asset. You have to look for what they
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: don't say as well as what they do say. Interesting, Okay.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: From the name, physical description, activity, and alleged employment, it
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: is apparent that Gerald Patrick Hemming is identical what's the
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: subject office A security file number four two nine two
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: two nine, who's been described as six foot five, two
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: point fifty, who is a notorious mercenary and soldier of fortune,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: and who, as of May seventy five, was ostensibly employed
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: by a private investigation company named tep Call Security. Our
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Office of Security has no record of them, though, right right,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: real quick? No double b. Yeah, I told everybody on
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: the members only, but I'll relate here. Brandon gave up
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: the Lone Gum and podcast for Lent because he loves
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: it so much. Apparently this is a thing. So I mean,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna miss Brandon while he's gone. I
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: don't know how long Lent is, but you're supposed to
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: give up things for lentt that mean a lot to you.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: So I guess I'm honored that he loves this show
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: so much that he gave us up for Lent. And
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: he's gonna have to have a lot of catching up
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: to do when he gets back. So yeah, Brandon will
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: be back. He just he just shit just gave us
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: up for lentt. So God bless him all. Right, back
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: to the document again. They're checking the supposed tip coal Security.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Office of Security has no record of them. In Miami, Florida. Shocker,
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Gerald Patrick Hemming is well known to this agency, the
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Office of Security, Miami Field Office, and JM Wave. On
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: numerous occasions since at least the early sixties, Hemming has
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: claimed that agency affiliation when in fact there has been none.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: And if you believe that one, I'll tell you another one.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: The most recent incident whereas Heming claimed in much affiliation
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: was in May of seventy five when he volunteered his
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: services to the DEA. Gerald Patrick Hemming is a longtime
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: cohort of Frank Anthony Sturgis aka Frank Fiorini of Watergate Notoriety,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: who also has a longtime record of falsely claiming agency affiliation.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: And if you believe that one, folks, I'll tell you
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: another one. In the late fifties, Heming and Sturgis, both
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: former US Marines, joined Fidel Castro in Cuba, but returned
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: shortly thereafter, claiming disillusionment with the Castro cause. Soon thereafter,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Sturgis organized a group of mercenaries for Caribbean and Central
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: American activities, which he named the Internation National Anti Communist Brigade.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: A reported subunit of this brigade, the Backers of whom
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: I've never been fully established, was named the Intercontinental Penetration
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Force Baby, headed by Gerald Patrick Hemming, otherwise known as
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: inter Penn. Foreign Appreciation of the possible ramifications of a
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: Guatemalagum expose of this assassination plot involving Jerry Patrick Hemming.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: You are referred to attachments to instant Memorandum to B
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: and Memorandum by the Raider dated June tenth, seventy five,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: in the name of Frank Sturgis and Everett Howard Hunt, Junior.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: UH.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: One of the major links attempted by the authors is
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: through Everett Howard Hunt to Frank Sturgis to Jail Patrick
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Hemming to Lauren Eugene Hall. Lauren and Eugene Hall was
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: a member of Hemming's intercon Penetration Force or in Eugenie
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: All received a nationwide publicity in sixty seven when New
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Orleans DA Jim Garrison alleged at Hall and enter Penn
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: was involved in the assassination of Kennedy and that members
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: of his unit were connected with the CIA, because they were,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: but they won't ever admit it. Garrison shortly thereafter dropped
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: his interest in Hall, but it is an interesting that
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: he did so after Hemming and Robert K. Brown joined
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: Garrison's investigation. And this comes from Jerry Brown, Deputy Chief
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: of the Security Analysts Analysis Group of the CIA. So
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: what is Jerry Hemming doing in nineteen seventy five plotting
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: to assassinate a Guatemalan president and shocker getting caught or
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: in pre planning? Who knows what the hell these guys
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: are doing, But boy is it interesting? Boy is it interesting?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: All right, let's hop into some more. And you know,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: these new documents are supposed to be unredacted, right, so
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: when you run into shit like this in the new documents,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: the new releases that are still heavily redacted, makes me
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: want to pull out what little hair eye have left
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: on my head. But that's okay, because they're interesting and
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I like torturing myself, as you may or may not
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: have figured out, Hey, James, I did have an inner
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: pinn hat. I'll get on that. I think I pulled
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: that I think I pulled that logo off the store,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: but I may have reinstated at some point. Yeah, but
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: right now you can go pick up your New Orleans
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Penetration Force hats and T shirts over at the store,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans Penetration Force. You know who's on that team,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: don't you. If you don't, you should. All right here,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: we have a document heavily redacted again and it is
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: on White House stationary. Okay, White House stationary. You don't
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: see this very often, folks, when you're calling through the documents,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: you don't see this very often. So when you do,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: you pay attention. Okay, So pay attention the president, who
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: at the time was Tricky Dick Nixon. Okay, Richard Dixon.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: I'm not a crook, Tricky Dick Nixon. Okay. And this
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: is a memorandum for Richard Hilms, the Director of the
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: Central Intelligence Agency, subject domestic intelligence. Domestic intelligence, which they're
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: not supposed to be technically doing domestic operations, that's right,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: the CIA, that's not in their charter. They are supposed
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: to be strictly foreign operations and intelligence. But this memo
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: on a White House stationary specifically says subject is domestic intelligence.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: So let's see what it says here, at least the
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: unredacted parts that we can see. Excuse me. The President
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: has carefully studied the Special Report of the Interagency Committee
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: on Intelligence and made the following decisions. Number one interpretive
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: restraint on communications intelligence, National Security Council Intelligence directed at
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: number six redacted. Number two electronic surveillance and penetrations redacted. Also,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: coverage of foreign nationals and diplomatic establishments in the United
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: States of interest to the intelligence community is to be intensified.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: That means ramping up your sons of bitches when it
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: comes to diplomats and embassies. Number three male coverage. Restrictions
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: on legal coverage are to be removed. That means fuck
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: the law. We're reading these some bitches mail damn the law.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Restrictions on covert coverage are to be relaxed. Relaxed. I
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: love this language. Relaxed to permit the use of this
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: technique on selected targets of priority foreign intelligence and internal
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: security interests. Pay attention to what the wording is here, folks.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Number four surreptitious entry that means breaking and entering illegally.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Restraints on the use of surreptitious entry are to be removed.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: That means, fuck the law, pay no attention to the law.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: We're good. The technique is to be used to permit
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: procure of vitally needed foreign cryptographic material and against other
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: urgent and high priority internal security targets. Yeah, the rules
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: just got bent to the point of almost being well broken.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Number five the development of campus sources. Coverage of violence
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: prone campus in student related groups is to be increased.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: That means they're worried about colleges, high schools. Coverage of
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: violent prone campuses and student related groups is to be increased.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: All restraints which limit this coverage are to be removed. Also,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: fuck the laws. Also CIA coverage of American students traveling
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: or living abroad is to be increased. So you know,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: if you decide to go to Albert Schweizer College and Switzerland,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: expect to be surveilled. Number six the use of military
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: undercover agents. Present restrictions are to be retained. That means
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: they're off limits. We do have our limits. We do
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: have our limits. Number seven the budget and manpower. Each
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: agency is to submit a detailed estimate as to projected
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: manpower needs and other costs. Required to implement the above decisions.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Number eight, Pay attention, Domestic intelligence operations. A committee consisting
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: of the directors of or other appropriate representatives appointed by
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: the directors of you ready for some alphabet soup, the FBI, CIA, NSSAYDIA,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: and the Military counterintelligence Agencies, is to be constituted, effective
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: August first, nineteen seventy, to provide evaluations of domestic intelligence,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: prepare periodic domestic intelligence estimates, carry out the other objectives
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: specified in the report, and perform such other duties as
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: the President shall from time to time assign. Okay, this
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: is giving Nixon the power to say, you do this,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: you do that, You work with them, and you report
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: back to me. And me only the Director of the
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: FBI shall serve as the chairman of the committee. Further
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: details on the organization and the operations of this committee
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: are set forth in an attached memorandum. I'm sure that
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: went over like a lead balloon. That Hoover is heading
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: up this committee, this President's Committee on Intelligence, involving the FBI,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: the CIA, the NSA, the DIA, and the military counterintelligence agencies.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they're all going to get along swimmingly with
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Hoover in charge. The President has directed has directed that
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: each addresses submit a detailed report due on September first,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy or the steps taken to implement these decisions. Further,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: such periodic reports will be requested as circumstances merit. The
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: President is aware that procedural problems may arise in the
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: course of implementing these decisions. However, he is anxious that
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: such problems be resolved with maximum speed and minimum understanding.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: I love this. Any difficulties which may arise should be
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: brought to my immediate detention in order that an appropriate
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: solution may be found in the President's directives, implemented in
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: a manner consistent with his objectives. Sincerely, Tom Charles Houston, Houston. Wow,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: So let's get into the guts and bolts of this. Yeah, right, Tony,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: I know we're getting in the weeds here, Membership. Now,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: this committee is called the Organization and Operations of the
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Interagency Group on Domestic Intelligence and Internal Security, otherwise known
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: as IAG Interagency Group. It's a lot of words and
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: not a lot of initials for the Interagency Group on
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Domestic Intelligence and Internal Security. But okay, Number one membership.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: The membership shall consist of representatives of the FBI, again CIA,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: d d IA or DJA, NSA, and the counter intelligence
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: agencies of the Departments of the Navy, the Army, and
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: Air Force. To ensure the high level consideration of issues
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: and problems which the President expects to be before the group,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: the directors of the respective agencies should serve personally. However,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: if necessary inappropriate, the director of a member agency may
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: designate another individual to serve in his place chairman. The
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: Director of the FBI I shall serve as chairman. He
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: may designate another individual from his agency to serve as
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: the FBI representative on the Group observers. The purpose of
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: the group is to effectuate community wide coordination and secure
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: the benefits of community wide analysis and estimating. When problems
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: arise which involve areas of interest to agencies or departments
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: not members of the group, they shall be invited at
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: the discretion of the group to join and as observers
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: and participate in those discussions of interest to them. Such
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: agencies and departments include the Departments of State concerning passport stuff,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: Treasury concerning the Irs or customs, or a secret Service, Justice,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Community Relations Service, and other agencies which may have investigative
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: or law enforcement responsibilities touching on domestic intelligence or internal
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: security matters. White House Liaison. The President has assigned to
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: Tom Charles Houston staff responsibility for domestic intelligence and internal
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: security affairs. He will participate in all activities of the
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: group as the personal representative of the President and will
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: be reporting directly to the President. Staffing. The group will
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: establish subcommittees of working groups as it deems appropriate. It
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: will also determine and implement such staffing requirements as it
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: may deem necessary to enable it to carry out as responsibilities,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: subject to the approval of the President, though of course duties.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: The group will have the following duties define the specific
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: requirements of member agencies of the intelligence community, effect close
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: direct coordination between member agencies. Now again, folks, this all
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: sounds good on paper, but you can imagine the nightmare
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: that this is going to create in reality. The group
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: shall meet at the call of the Chairman of the
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: of the chairman of a member agency, or the White
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: House Representative, so anybody can call a meeting. Security knowledge
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: of the existence and purpose of this group shall be
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: limited to a need to know basis a strict need
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: to know basis, operations of and pay was originating within
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: this group shall be classified top secret, handle via comment
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: channels only. So this is highly secretive. So let's see,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: here's why this is being done. More than the FBI
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: is involved in this operation. NSA, DIACIA, Military Service, blah
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: blah blah for your private All of these agencies supported
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: the options selected by the President or the opinions or
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: options for your private information. So did all the members
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: of mister Hoover's staff who worked on the report. He'd
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: fire them if he knew this. Again, this is on
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: White House stationary. Look at the last line. He'd fire
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: them if he knew this. And this is from a
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: memorandum for Hr. Haldeman. Maybe you've heard of him. It says,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: we are not getting the type of hard intelligence that
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: we need at the White House. We will not get
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: it until great efforts is made through community wide coordination
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: to dig out the information by using all the resources
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: potentially available. It is, of course, a matter of balancing
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: the obvious risk against the desired results. I thought we
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: balance these risks rather objectively in the report, and Hoover
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: is escalating the risks in order to cloak his determination
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: to continue to do business as usual. So certainly sounds
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: to me as this guy Tom Houston, acting as representative
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: direct representative of the president, has got some kind of
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: thing in for Hoover. I don't know what yet, but
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: not a fan of Hoover apparently. And look, you can't
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: blame Nixon for wanting to do something like this, okay,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: I mean JFK ran into the same problem about getting
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: reliable intelligence. This is why he wanted to do away
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: with the CIA. Couldn't trust them to give him the
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: information that he needed to make and effectuate wide ranging
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: implications in the world. You know, when you're the president
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: of the United States, you need to have reliable, consistent,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: effectual and intelligence information in order to make decisions properly,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: in order to forecast things and get in front of
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: them before they happen, to exercise, to be able to
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: exercise all your options. And when you can't trust where
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: the information is coming from, you got a problem. Jfk
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: knew this and tried to remedy it. I think LBJ
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: and Hoover were such close buddies. He didn't really give
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: a shit what the CI was doing at the time.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: But then Nixon comes in and he doesn't like Hoover,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: and the CIA doesn't like him, and he doesn't like
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: the CIA, and it's just a mess, a mess, And
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: you got to remember this is nineteen seventy one year
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: after landing on the Moon. Allegedly, at some point Hoover
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: has to be told who is president. Pay attention here,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: because this gets this gets spicy, This gets a spicy meatball.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: At some point Hoover has to be told who is president.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: He has become totally unreasonable and his conduct is detrimental
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: to our domestic intelligence operations. In the past two weeks,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: he has terminated all FBI liaison with the NSA, THEDIA,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: the Military Services, the Secret Service, and everyone except the
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: White House. He terminated liaison with CIA in May. This
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: is bound to have a crippling effect upon the entire
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: community and his contrary to his public assurance to the
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: President at the meeting that there was close and effective
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: coordination and cooperation within the intelligence community. It is important
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: to remember that the entire intelligence community knows that the
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: President made a positive decision to go ahead, and Hoover
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: has now succeeded in forcing a review. If he gets
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: his way, it is going to look like he is
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: more powerful than the president and we cannot have that.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: That should close the matter, And I can't understand why
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: the Attorney General is a party to reopen it. All
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: of us are going to look damn silly in the
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: eyes of helms Galer Bennett and the military chiefs of
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: Hoover can unilaterally reverse a presidential decision based on a
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: report that many people worked their asses off to prepare
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: and which, on its merits, was a first rate objective job. Wow,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: this is getting spicy.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: I like it.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: I like it. Hoover can be expected to raise the
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: following points in your meetings. Ay, our president efforts are adequate.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: The answer is bullshit. This is particularly true with regard
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: to FBI campus coverage. And again this is coming from
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: you see right there above wheres his triple B bullshit.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't add that. It's in here. It's in here.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: This is an official document on White House letterhead stationary.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: So the risks are too great. These folks are going
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: to get the president into trouble. And Richard Nixon had
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: better listen to me. This is who we're talking. The
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: answer is that we have considered the risks. We believe
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: they are acceptable and justified under the circumstances. We're willing
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: the way each exceptionally sensitive operation on its merits. But
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: the director of the FBI is paid to take risks
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: whether the security of the company or the country is
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: at stake. Nothing we propose to do has been done
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: in the past, and in the past it was always
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: done successfully. Hoover might say, I don't have the personnelity
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: to do the job the president wants done. The answer
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: is he has the people and or he can get them.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: So I mean, this is just a pardon the term
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: ladies throw your meat on the table, contests and see
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: who has the biggest cock in the room. And it's
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: an intelligence mess. Hoover was quoted as saying, we don't
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: need an interagency committee on intelligence operations because we're doing
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: fine right now. I beg to differ. There is a
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: final point. For eighteen months, we have watched people in
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: this government ignore the president's orders, take actions to embarrass him,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: promote themselves that his expense, and generally make his job
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: way more difficult than it should be. It makes me
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: fighting mad. And what Hoover is doing here is putting
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: himself above the president, and if he thought the Attorney
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: General's advice should be as solicited, he should have done
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: so before the report was sent to the president. After all,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: Hoover was chairman of the committee and he could have
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: asked the ag for his comments. But no, he didn't
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: do so, for it never occurred to him that the
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: President would not agree with his footnoted objections. He thought
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: all he had to do was put in a footnote
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: and the matter was settled. He had absolutely no interest
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: in the views of the NSA, the CIA, the DIA,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: and the military services, and obviously has little interest in
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: our views or apparently even in the decisions of the President.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: I don't see how we can tolerate this, but being
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: a fatalist, if not a realist, I'm prepared to accept
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: the fact that we may have to do so. Sincerely,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: Tom Charles Houston. I wonder who the hell Tom Charles
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: Houston is, but god damn it, I like him. He
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: is not afraid to mince words in the interest of
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: defending his president. Moving right along some more, hubay yeah, yeah,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: who by all right? Why did I?
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a a very neat old observation here.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: Let's see here all right. Now, this has no direct
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: correlation or relation to the Oswald case, but it gives
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: you a window as to their methods and sources and
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: what they were doing. This is David October third, nineteen
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: sixty four. And this is a memo to Sullivan of
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: the FBI from Brannigan and ce Seed. On this are Belmont, More, Delote, Sullivan, More, Brannigan, p.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: Trento And what does what this is here? And you
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: see there is you know, it's it's marked top secret
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: all over it secret in the middle what they wanted
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: to uh redact, but it's unredacted. Well, almost all of
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: it's unredacted. This is an interesting one. So this case
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: involves two Soviet illegal agents using the idea identities of
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: Robert and joy Ann Bouch, against whom espionage conspiracy charges
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: were dismissed dismissed on October third or second, sorry October second,
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: sixty four before Judge John Douling, Junior, in the United
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: States District Court, Eastern District of New York. This case
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: was dismissed on motion of the government on national security grounds,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: which basically means, don't put these motherfuckers in the courtroom,
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: because all kinds of shit is going to come spilling
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: out of this Okay. In March of nineteen fifty nine,
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: the Bureau was able to successfully approach Carlo Rudolph to
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: Me code named Carrot, a gru illegal agent who had
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: entered the United States a short time before under clad
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: and destined circumstances, means he snuck in. He agreed to
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: operate against the Soviets as a defector in place. He
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: operated in that capacity continuously until June nineteen sixty three,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: when he was ordered to return to the Soviet Union.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: He decided to remain in this country rather than go home.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: In January of nineteen sixty two, the Bureau uncovered the
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: Bouches okay also gru illegals through one of the Bureau's
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: programs which involves the screening of applicants to practice cosmatology
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: and hairdressing. One of the Bureau's programs which involves the
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: screening of applicants to practice cosmetology and hairdressing. So just
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: know that if you ever go to beauty college or
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: barber school, barber school, anything like that, you're gonna get
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: background checked by the FBI. Okay, supposedly okay, the female
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: subject had been employed in the Baltimore area as a
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: hairdresser at the time. According to the redacted source, these
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: subjects were dispatched to the United States in nineteen fifty
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: nine and their target for intelligence was the Pentagon in Washington.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: So what that means is the Soviets sent this married
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: couple here in nineteen fifty nine and their target was
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: to find out stuff either about the Gun or from
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: the Pentagon or whatever. And their cover was she's a
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: hairdresser and living in Baltimore, but somehow the phoebe sniffed
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: him out, sniffed him out. Their activities were followed through lookouts,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: technical and microphone coverage established on their residence, which means
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: they tapped their phones, they were under physical surveillance, and
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: they bugged their house periodic anonymous source contacts, meaning they
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: would just have people kind of run into them randomly
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: and start talking, maybe starting a conversation with them, maybe
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: sending some chicken there to get her hair done, and
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: trying to, you know, I don't know, maybe drop something like, oh,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: my husband works at the Pentagon. He works them hard,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: you know, thinking that oh he does does h well
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: what does he do with the Pentagon? You know, as
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: she's cutting his hair, you know, I mean, who knows?
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: Their activities were followed, Yeah, yeah, an interception of their mail,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: so all that and they're watching their mail, they're getting
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: their mail open. We were able to read a number
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: of secret ink messages they had received from the Soviets
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: through the use of developers redacted. In the summer of
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: sixty three. We had learned through their secret ink communications
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: that they had expected to return to Moscow shortly. Around
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: this period, information had been received from our redacted source
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: that all gru illegals then in the United States would
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: not be returned, but would be replaced by others because
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: of disruption in the grow over the Olig Penkowsky matter,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: who was a colonel who was executed by the Soviets
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: for collaboration with the British and the CIA. So basically
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: what that means is, uh, the Soviets were they wanted
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: to cut off everything with their current g r U
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: penetrators and false defectors and spies and just cut them
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: off and start new because they didn't know who they
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: could trust. So a lot of these agents that are
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: here in the United States, they hear this. They they
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: you know, they hear this. They see this, their friends,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: the people they know are disappearing, getting killed, never hearing
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: from them again. Type of thing. They get scared and
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: they say, well, okay, well I'm not going back to you.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: I'll stay here and I'll work for you. Uh yeah.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: That type of thing so considered full future course of
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: action to be taken in these cases. In light of
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: developments at that time, it was pointed out that the
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: carrot informant could be used as a government witness in
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: an espionage conspiracy prosecution, which would have as the main
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: defendant Ivan Igorov, a Soviet national employed by the United
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: Nations Secretariat. Igorov and his wife, both of whom did
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: not have diplomatic community, were observed clearing a carrot drop
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: in New York on June sixth, nineteen sixty three. It
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: was pointed out that from a trial standpoint, this phase
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: of the case presented no extra legal problems. This memoranium
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: also pointed out the possibility that the bulches could be
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: brought into the same conspiracy insomuch as the Igorovs were
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: observed filling the balts drop in New York, a different
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: location from that of the Carrot Drop on June fifteenth,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: nineteen six blah blah, blah, blah blah. So basically, it
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: just it highlights how the FBI dealt with Soviet spies
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: at the time, you know, contemporaneously in nineteen sixty three,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: which is interesting, okay, you know, if they really really thought,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: they really thought, in which they probably should have really
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: thought that people like Marina who had close relatives, you know,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: in high up in the Soviet intelligence ministry or whatever
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: it was, who seemingly married this American defector very quickly
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: and came back to the United States, and they might
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: want to think that she probably a spy, right, and
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: they would be doing the exact same thing, watching them,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: bugging them, following them, surveiling them, tapping their phones. Of course,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: this is a little harder to do when or maybe
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: that's why Oswald was moving around so much. Maybe just
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: a thought, just the thought, you know, when the FBI
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: caught up to them and started figuring out where they
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: were living and bugging their phones and blah blah blah,
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: time to move, time to go. As it can be
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: seen from the foregoing, the Department was made fully aware
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: of the problems involved in any naged prosecution of the
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: Bulches from the outset of our discussion with it and
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: the possibility it might be forced to drop these charges
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: during the trial of this case, and the Department decided
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: to take its chances. For your information, So again they
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: did not decide to go through with prosecuting the Bouches,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: but they had every right to. But again this would
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: have opened up a can of proverbial worms, and they
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: decided against it. So that just kind of gives you
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: a window into how they were treating Soviet spies in
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three. And this again, this is the FBI
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: in the United States, not the CIA. Here's an interesting one.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: Here is an interesting one, folks. This is of course
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: after Ji Guyouva died. This is a DOJ from the
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: Attorney General to the Director of the FBI, memorandum dated
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: December twenty fourth, nineteen and seventy five, concerning the official
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: and confidential files of J. A. Garhoover, which means the
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: shit that he had maybe somewhere other than the FBI
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: building or his office, just saying check this out. This
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: is a fun one and ironically not that far from me.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: It's very interesting, So the Attorney General is writing to
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: the now director of the FBI, or maybe it's regarding
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: references made to my memorandum captioned the United States Select
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: Committee on Intelligence Activities, date of July sixth, nineteen seventy five,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: with enclosure setting forth results of our inquiry into the
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: disposition of files maintained in the office of former Director
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: Jay Eeger Hoover. Again, this is about the time of
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: the Church Committee or around there. The Time magazine dated
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: December fifteenth, nineteen seventy five, pages ten through twelve, had
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: an article captioned Hoover's political spying for presidents. Within this article,
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: specifically on page eleven, column three, paragraph two of the
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: article states en I quote before Secretary Gandhi could look
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: at them in Hoover's home, the most sensitive papers were
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: carried off in an FBI truck to Western Virginia's Blue
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: Ridge Club, a Shenandoah Mountain hideaway US used by innermost
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: FBI officials for regular poker games with the CIA and
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: other cronies. There, the papers were burned in the club's
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: large fireplace if necessary. Precisely who ordered this destruction and
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: carried it out has not been disclosed. The three story
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: club valued it up to two hundred thousand dollars, burned
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: to the ground in a fire suspiciously of undetermined cause
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: on November twenty third, nineteen seventy five. Oh and no
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: evidence of arson has been discovered, But that doesn't mean
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: there wasn't, just no evidence of So what I just
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: read to you is that files from Hoover's house, the
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: most sensitive papers, were carried paid off in an FBI
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: truck to Western Virginia's Blue Ridge Club, a Shenandoa mountain
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: hideaway used by intermost FBI officials for regular poker games
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: with CIA and other cronies. There, the papers were burned
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: in the club's large fireplace. Precisely who ordered this destruction
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: and carried it out has not been disclosed. I can
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: tell you who probably ordered it, Clyde Tolsen, cet. And
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: that's not a conspiracy theory.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 3: U.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: But I digress, because here we go. Prior to the
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: publication of this particular issue of Time, Sandy Smith, a
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: Time magazine reporter, advised this bureau that he had corroborated
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: the above sighted matter through three sources. Smith indicated that
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: JP Moore, former assistant to the director, within forty eight
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: hours of mister Hoover's death, had ordered the destruction of
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: these files and an agent had taken these files to
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: the Blue Ridge Gun Club where they were burned. Misters Adams, Moore,
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: wanall Krieger Mints sent separately. So this is interesting. This
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: is in off of Route nine in the Sweet Springs
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: community of Loudon County, Virginia. This is literally like a
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: half an hour down the road from me, off of
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: Rout seven and Route nine. Crazy that they had a
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: little spot hidden in the mountains where they'd go hang
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: out and shoot guns and shit and burn documents and
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: hide documents and do weird sh shit. Probably, but there's
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: always a butt, a big old butt on missus Hilda Weese.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: On December sixteenth, nineteen and seventy five, Hilda was interviewed
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: at her residence and advised that she had been the
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: caretaker and cook at the Blue Ridge Rod and Gun Club,
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: located in Loudon County, Virginia, since April eighth, nineteen seventy one.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: She stated that on that date she and her family
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: moved into the residence at the club, and she resided
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: continuously at that location until November twenty third, nineteen seventy five,
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: when the club was destroyed by fire. So now we're
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: gonna hear from the caretaker of said club. Missus Weiss
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: was questioned concerning the allegation appearing in the above time
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: article that an FBI truck had delivered certain records to
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: the club, which were then destroyed in the club's fireplace.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: Excuse me being a good soldier or soldierrette tiny. Missus
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: Weeds stated that it would have been virtually impossible for
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: anyone to have destroyed records in any of the three
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: fireplaces of the club without her knowledge, because she and
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: her family resided at the club on a continuous basis
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: since April nineteen seventy one. She also advised she was
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: the only one who had keys to the front and
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: back doors of the clubhouse. Sure you were, honey, and
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: pointed out that his caretaker one of her responsibilities was
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: to ensure that only members or guests accompanied by members
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: were allowed admittance to the clubhouse. Business Weise stated that
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: there was an iron fence located across the driveway approximately
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: sixty yards from the clubhouse, which was kept locked at
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: all times except when members were present business. Weeds also
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: commented that she had four watch dogs at the club
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: who were very alert for the presence of strangers or
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: in fact anyone. She advised that one of her responsibilities
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: was to keep the fireplaces clean at the clubhouse, which
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: she did, and at no time did she observe anything
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: in the fireplaces indicating that any records have been destroyed misus.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: We stated emphatically that at no time did anyone come
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: to the club and burn records in the fireplace or
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: anyone else. Now, have any of y'all ever burned paper
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: in a fire pit or a fireplace? I'm hearing the
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: yeses now, unless said paper is in some way bound
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: by a leather or wooden or cardboardy type skin like
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: a book. Since, Uh, I just don't know how you
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: can tell that paper or papers were burned in a fireplace,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: especially if you're adding to the fire, you're stoking the fire,
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: you have a poker, you're moving shit around, you're busting
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: up the shit. Paper burns pretty thoroughly good. Just saying so,
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know how she can be so so adamant
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: that nobody burned anything in these fireplaces without her knowledge, Like,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: come on lady, seriously, but she's a good soldier. She's
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: a good soldier. If you have swinging dicks from the
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: FBI and CIA coming to this place to hang out,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: shoot guns. It's a gun club and shoot the shit,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: get drunk, play poker, play cards, burn documents, you know,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, when you need to. I mean, what better place?
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: Missus Weis was questioned concerning the allegation blah blah blah
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: concerning the fire of the club on November twenty third.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: Missus West stated that she had left the club for
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: a short period of time to run an errand how convenient,
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: and left behind her son and some of her friends
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: at the clubhouse. She related that at four pm, her
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: son observed smoke coming from the attic of the club
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: around the windows and chimney, and her son alerted the
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: other occupants of the clubhouse, as well as the local
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: fire department. She stated that a member of fire departments
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: responded to the fire, but were unable to extinguish the
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: fire with any degree of success. She continued that a
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: fire Marshal Won Oliver Dubay was president on the scene
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: and when she questioned him as to the cause of
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: the fire, he said that it had apparently been an accident.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: It was probably caused by defective wiring in the building.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: December sixteenth, seventy five, Oliver Dubay, the fire marshal Lounge
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: County Fire and Rescue Service in Leesburg, Virginia, was interviewed
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: concerning this particular fire and stated he responded to the
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: scene within an hour of having started. Well, I'm glad
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: you got there so quickly, mister Dubay. I mean, you know,
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: within an hour of a burning wooden lodge. I'm glad
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: you got there so early. This place was fucking ashes
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: by the time they showed up by uh, and he
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: had to examine the ruins and came to the conclusion
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: that the fire was of accidental origin. Mister Debay advised
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: that his investigation had not been concluded as yet, but
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: felt sure the fire started because of defective electrical wiring
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: in an area near the ceiling level of the first
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: floor he volunteered. He did not observe anything at the
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: scene or find any evidence indicating the fire was caused
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: by arson. On December seventeenth, seventy five, mister John or
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: JP Moore, former assistant to the director and now retired, advised,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: in response to I request for an interview with him
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: concerning the allegation in this matter, that he had already
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: testified with regard to the disposal of mister Hoover's papers
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: before the subcommittee headed by a chairperson Bella Abzog, and
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: thought that his testimony in this regards his deffice. More
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: further advised that he contacted his attorney, mister Brian Gettings,
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: who was representing him in connection with matters relating to
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: the FBI involving US Recording Company and who Files, and
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: his attorney had counseled him not to be interviewed in
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: connection therew basically Moore saying, screw you, guys. I've said
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: what I'm going to say about it, and I'm not
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: going to say no more, say my lawyers. So um yeah.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: Concerning the above information, I wish to refer to my
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: memorandum to you, Captain JP Moore, former Assistant to the Director,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: dated December twenty second, seventy five, wherein I furnished you
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: that with the results of a discussion that I had
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: with Sandy Smith of Time Magazine on December nineteenth. In
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: my memorandum, I pointed out under item four that Smith
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: made reference to the quote Blue Ridge Club, and Smith's
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: at this club was the place where mister Hoover's records
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: were burned shortly after mister Hoover's death. How convenient the
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: above information concerning our inquiry about this allegation is being
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: furnished you for your information. Blah blah blah. The Deputy
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: Attorney General attention, mister k William O'Connor. Yeah, yeah, So
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: you see how they do it, folks. It's as simple
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: as that, throw the shit in the truck, drive out
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: in the country to some secluded place that you own,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: ran by some weird person that you trust and pay
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: very good to take care of things, and surreptitiously burn
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: the whole fucking thing to the ground when you're done.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they have ten more like it within one
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: hundred mile radius of DC. Here's another interesting one, and
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: this is the reason that I played you the Martin
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: Luther King thing at the beginning here, because again, history
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: doesn't always tell us the truth about these individuals, and
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't play it because you know, the guy is
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: some weird looking douchebag who just shits on everything he
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: does have valid points about Martin Luther King. Martin Luther
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: King was not an angel. Was we were sold a
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: bill of goods and he played his part, okay, And
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: we've always been taught at Oh the FBI, Hoover didn't
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: like him because he was black, blah blah blah. The
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: FBI was was, you know, bugging him and following him
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: and video recording him and audio recording him. Why because
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: he was doing weird shit. That's why.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: You can't you can't make this stuff up. I mean
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: you can, but you don't need to if they're actually
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: doing it, all right. And there's lots of contradictory things
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: that that Martha Luther King has said over the years
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: as opposed to what he did or said later. And
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: that's true of most politicians, but not usually men of
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: God in quotes. But I digress. Now, you know that
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: they were worried, and for good reason. It's not like
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: they pulled these things out of thin air like Dean Andrews.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: You know. Here's a document dated October fourteenth, nineteen sixty five,
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: to mister Allan Belmont of the FBI from Sullivan, the
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: FBI subject Martin Luther King, junior communist. The New York
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: Office called me this afternoon. It advised that Martin Luther
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: King Junior has a reservation for tonight in the Astro
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: Hotel in New York City. He is to be in
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: room four forty five. The New York Office has available
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: room four thirty five, from which it advises it can
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: maintain with full security assured, a microphone surveillance on King. Again.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: I'm reading these to you to show you how the
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: FBI operates in certain situations. Okay, how they conduct surveillance,
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: how they get approved to conductive surveillance. So here we
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: go again. The New York Office called me this afternoon,
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: October fourteen sixty five and advised Martin Luther King Junior
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: has a reservation for tonight at the Astor Hotel in
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: New York City. He is to be in room for
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: forty five. The New York Office has available room four
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: thirty five, from which it advises it can maintain with
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: full security assured. That means he ain't gonna get caught
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 2: a microphone surveillance on King. King has recently been conferring
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: with his advisors with communist backgrounds, such as Stanley Levinson
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: and Harry Wachtel on his visits to New York City.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: We have specific info that he plans to see Harry
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: Wachtel on this visit. His conferences with these advisors have
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: shown the Communist influence upon King relative to racial matters
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: as well as the Vietnam situation. The New York Office
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: requested authority to make the microphone installation immediately with full
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: security assured action. On New York's assurance that full security
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: was available, and since time was of the essence, I
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: told New York to go ahead with the install as planned.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: I also authorized the necessary expenditure for the room for
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: monitoring purposes. So again, that's how you do it, folks.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: One memorandum from the FBI to everybody else is in
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: the FBI. Boom. I told New York to go ahead
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: with the installation is planned. I also authorized the necessary
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: expenditure for the room and for monitoring purposes. Memo to
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: the Attorney General being prepared. Boom boom boom boom boom baby.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: That's how you do it. That's how you do it. Now.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: This next one is a head scratcher. A head scratcher.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: This is a document from July twenty fifth, nineteen seventy
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: five the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: Operations with respect to Intelligence Activities, Policies, and Procedures. Okay,
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: and these are interesting. The programs, Projects, Surveys, and Procedures list,
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: the PPSPL enclosed and the Counterintelligence PPSPL infront were generated
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: by Special Agent Thomas Burns from a full review of
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: available i INTD inspection reports and files. This is first
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: one up here is the counterintelligence PPS. Number one Intelligence
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: Coverage of Friendly Foreign Countries, which is developing positive intelligence
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: information regarding personnel in the United States from non Soviet
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: Bloc countries. Number two International Organization Dangerous Aliens of nations
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: outside the Soviet Block Centralized compilation of potentially dangerous aliens
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: with diplomatic community against whom the US State Department can
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: initiate steps to deport or to lift diplomatic community in
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: the event of a war. Number three name checks of
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: aliens holding diplomatic and international organization visas. FBI maintaining results
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: of name checks conducted by various members of US intelligence
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: community based on information provided to such intelligence organizations by
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: i ins regarding aliens meeting established criteria. Special support Group
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: the use of non agent surveillance personnel, I mean private security, folks, alum.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: Uncovering of Soviet illegals entering the United States. Now that
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: part is formally redacted, and so's the next one. Anagram
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: penetration of foreign diplomatic establishments in the United States for
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: procurement of cryptographic materials. Mister Buchen, Councilor to the President
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: has advised it sensitive information such as that regarding anagram
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: and electronic surveillances to be handled in an oral briefing,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: not written, to be given to Senators Church and Tower. Again,
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 2: this is the kind of stuff you don't put on paper, folks.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: Ban pop, Now these are all code words for the
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: shit they were doing, okay, ban pop. Identification of Soviet
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: illegals through the transfer of funds through Swiss banks. Okay,
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: So this is how I guess they were getting information
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: from the Swiss banks of money moving to Soviet illegals
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: in the United States through wire transfers of funds. Chinese
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: aliens entering the United States. Identification of ethnic Chinese legally
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: entering the US with intelligence assignments. Chinese communist contacts with
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: scientists in the United States, development of selected scientists of
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: ethnic Chinese background as foreign encounter intelligence assets to be
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: targeted against People's Republic of China personnel and establishments in
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: the US and Canada. Chinese entering the United States claiming citizenship.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: Identification of Chinese legally entering in the US with intelligence assignments.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: Chinese University and graduate school index a list of all
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: Chinese aliens in the United States who have attended colleges
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: or graduate with schools on the Chinese mainland and who
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: are considered potential candidates for development as US assets that
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 2: mean Chinese spies. Cookema Kokma a specialized physical surveillance directed
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: against foreign intelligence officers. Kennil Keniel Identification of Soviet illegals
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: arriving in the United States from Europe through Canada. These
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: are all programs chiquoiin Checkoin counterintelligence activities to thwart efforts
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: of Chinese intelligence in this country. Forest screening of records
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: of foreign students at New York University other than those
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 2: and authorized programs to uncover Soviet illegals. Do you see
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: how wide stretching these intelligence operations were back in the
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: sixties and seventies. I mean, it's mind blowing. The breadth
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: and depth of the surveillance and the lists and demand
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: power you have to go through to monitor all of
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 2: this stuff and all of these people. Pro HO pro
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: HO a program to detect homosexuals who have been compromised
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: or recruited by Soviet intelligence. Pro HO visitors to communists
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: China and contacts by US presidents or US residents with
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: Chinese diplomatic establishments. Investigations conducted regarding certain individuals, meeting established criteria,
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: visitors to iron curtained countries, interviews of selected US tourists
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: to determine possible contact by Soviet block intelligence. So that
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: means if you visited Russia, they were going to detain
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: you when you came back and asked you if the
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 2: Russians asked you to be a spy for them, unless
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: you're Lee Harvey Oswald, of course, or kid or kid.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: A technical penetration of Soviet establishments in the United States,
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 2: and by Soviet establishments they mean embassies and residences. Technical surveillance.
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: That's the installation of cameras, bugs, phone taps, wire taps,
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 2: you name it. Cloverleaf. Technical penetration of Soviet establishments in
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: the United States or no, I'm sorry clover Leaf is
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: a technical penetration of new Soviet residential complex in Riverdale,
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: New York City. So that's a specialized program within a
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: program targeting Soviet residential complex in Riverdale, New York City.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: That means they're bugging the whole complex because there's a
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: bunch of Russians suspect Russians living there. SAM Survey screening
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: of mail to selected European cities. So if you're sending
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: mail to some random European city, your mail is subject
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 2: to getting opened and red GUS survey screening of mail
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: originating in New York destined for a specific postal zone whatever.
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 2: That means radio and technical equipment purchased by the Soviets.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: Recording of Soviet purchases in such areas intelligence and counterintelligence purposes.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 2: So if you're Russian and you're in the United States,
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: they are tracking your purchases. Just know this riga or
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: riga identification of Soviet illegals entering the US during certain years.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 2: See comes Secomes expanded Mexican border covers to include development
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: of sources against the Soviet embassy in Mexico. Sound familiar,
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: so beer you may have heard of this one. An
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: investigation of certain Soviet Block immigrants and repatriots in an
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: attempt to identify those previously recruited by Soviet Block intelligence.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 2: It's projects so beer so cap review of certain records
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: to identify Soviet illegals who have applied for documentation as
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: US residents as part of their effort to establish a
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: bona fide cover identity. Vietnamese refugees efforts to uncover possible
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: infiltration of North Vietnamese agents in the refugee flow to
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: the United States. Wall Clock screening of requests for birth
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: certificate is under an establish criteria to identify such requests
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 2: which may have originated with Soviet intelligence. So if you
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: are requesting a copy of your birth certificate and you
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: might be a Russian or you might be a Redneck,
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: just know the FBI is watching you. Technical and microphone
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 2: surveillance survey of telephone and microphone installations functioning at certain
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 2: times in certain places. That's a very vague one. Al
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 2: FATA Automatic Data Processing Project means of identifying Al Fatah
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: members in their contacts through use of ADP equipment. Cuban
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: refugee detection of Cuban intelligence agents who might infiltrate into
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: the US through refugee channels. DESECO development of selected contexts
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 2: to be directed against Soviet Block officials, East West Exchange,
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 2: Divided internal security safeguards regarding admission to the US of
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 2: Soviet and satellite nationals. Z coverage screening of mail destined
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: for the Soviet mission to the United Nations. Of course
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: they're going to read their mail, of course. Chip prop
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: screening of all mail to the United States from Hong
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: Kong and the People's Republic of China, chick lit screening
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: of mail from the United States to Hong Kong and
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: the People's Republic of China. So pretty much, any male
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: going to China and any mail coming from China to
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: the United States, the ship's getting red Alchemy notional pro
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: Marxist Leninist, Maoist domestic revolutionary organization staffed by Bureau assets
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: directed in uncovering PRC intelligence activities in the United States.
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: Geology verification of individuals entering selected foreign countries claiming US
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: citizenship to identify Soviety illegals. High level collection of high
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: level foreign political intelligence by FBI legal attaches. That's legatts
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: abroad for the information of the White House or bit
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: checking if US Post Office boxes utilized by US military
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 2: personnel in the vicinity of selected US military bases to
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: uncover possible Soviet agents. So if you were in the
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: US military and you have a postal box that's a
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: PO box somewhere in the vicinity of a military base,
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: expect your shit to get opened and watched. Phrenology efforts
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: to identify soviety illegals who formerly resided in a specific
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: foreign country and whose present whereabouts are unknown. That what
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 2: I just read you is forty two policies and procedures
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: pertaining to the FBI and the Department of Justice and
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 2: what is in their purview to do. And that's not all, folks,
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: that is not all. I came across many, many, many
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: other documents. I'm clicking around in there. You open a
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: file up, it's two hundred pages long, and there's literally
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 2: page after page, ten pages long of radical Muslim groups,
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 2: Black Panther Party, any kind of far right, far left
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: extremist organization, whether it's a professional organization, a geographical specific organization,
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: the Weather Underground, the Black Panthers, stuff like this all
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: over the United States. They were watching. They had very
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: detailed spreadsheets that are in the files that you can
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: pull up and look and see how many assets they
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: had in place in these various organizations, what kind of
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: technical or other surveillance they're doing on these things, you know,
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: various degrees of things. It's insane how far reaching the
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 2: FBI was and what they were doing and who they
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: were watching and what they were dealing with. It's understandable
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 2: that they would miss some things, but they had their
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: fingers in a lot of pies. I mean a lot
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: of pies. Not a bad thing, but the sheer man
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: power alone, and just the sheer structure of how the
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 2: FBI is structured, from reporting from the ground to the top.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: I can't even fathom the amount of paperwork that would
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 2: have been done their reports to the superiors, and then
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: their reports to their superiors, and their purports to their
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: superiors and on up to change from all these local offices.
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 2: It's unfathomable to me the reach of the domestic intelligence
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: capabilities of the FBI. You know, I just thought, oh,
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: they're just chasing kidnappers and bank robbers and you know,
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: murderers that fled across state lines. No, no, no, they
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: are doing quite a lot more than that way more
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: than I ever imagined nor could fathom. And like I said,
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: this all comes from the newly released files. And I
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: don't know if these were the ones that would just
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: put out January thirtieth, and they kind of tucked them
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: into the twenty twenty five ones, because I don't remember
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: ever seeing these before, you know, when I was perusing through.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if this is like some of
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 2: the newer stuff. But and again no smoking guns here,
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 2: but it gives you a little context, hence the name
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: of the episode. For context. Yes, look at that handsome
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: son of a bit right there again for text about
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: how the government was operating, you know, to see the
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: links that the FBI would go through to monitor not
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: just illegal Soviets but also the legal ones that came over.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: They were watching Marina. They had to be watching Marina.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: They had to be watching all of these white Russians,
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 2: if you will, and reporting back and watching the reservace
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 2: subservice subversives, if I can say the word, the Cuban exiles,
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: and of course they would try to talk to them,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: try to develop lines of communication, try to develop some
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: intelligence that works that could be utilized to get information.
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 2: And you know, if you're an FBI agent back then,
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 2: you know you're going to try to develop useful information
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 2: that can be used to you know, further the cause,
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 2: to make a case, to make an arrest, maybe even
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: you know, get yourself the big fish. You know. So
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: it's all very interesting. It's all crazy, and yeah, I
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 2: just thought it was interesting. Like I said, there's no
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: direct correlation to the Oswald case. I mean, there is
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: a little bit here there. But to know how they
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: would just get rid of files, they just take them
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: off in a truck and burn them at their hangout,
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: you know, their little treehouse that's literally half an hour
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: down the road from where the trip will be a
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: sitting right now here in western Virginia, Western northern Virginia.
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: It's crazy. Just over the mountain Loud County is right
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 2: there are Route nines right there. Holy shit, they had
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: their own spot where they would go and burn documents.
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: You know, you pay the little old lady who takes
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 2: care of the place for you and cleans up all
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: your fireplaces after you're done. You pay her and her
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: family handsomely. Wow, of course she's got you back. Good
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 2: old Hill though. All right, let's see here, Yeah, if
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 2: you take into consideration, like James said, you know, that's
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of surveillance. It's a lot of surveillance. It's
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of reports. It's a lot of not just
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: technical surveillance, but manpower. You know, you gotta have. You
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: gotta pay people to to install the devices and not
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: get caught. You gotta pay people to monitor the devices
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 2: and not get caught. You got to pay people to
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 2: write it the reports and reports of their superiors and
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: so on and so forth. And it's crazy, like there
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 2: was even other documents in there about and this is
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 2: probably from the fifties where they had to pay structure
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: like the FBI they set out it was probably considered
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: one of their sources and methods, and they basically said,
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: you know, to develop a paid confidential informant, you know,
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: you're allowed to pay them up to I think it
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: used to be in in the late forties and early fifties.
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: It was like one hundred bucks a month for three
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 2: months or six months, sorry, and then they raised it
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: to two hundred bucks for six weeks. After that, there
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: had to be a break, There had to be a
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 2: reason to keep paying them. You had to reevaluate their
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: paid informant status, whether or not you were getting anything
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: useful out of them at that point. If not, you
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 2: cut ties. And again, these people were paid in cash,
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: not checks, so they would have to write up these
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: blue slips is what they call them, and submit those,
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 2: you know, to their superiors whenever they needed to develop information.
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 2: And these blue slips, I can't imagine that one hundred
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: bucks a month in nineteen forty or nineteen fifty. That's
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of fucking money. That's a lot of fucking money,
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of money. And you know, imagine how many
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 2: paid confidential informants the FBI had throughout the entire United
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: States for the past eighty years. That's a lot of money.
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 2: Not to mention what all these agents are getting paid.
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 2: And you wonder why we paid taxes, folks, You wonder
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 2: where all this money comes from. Well, now you can't
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 2: say you don't know, now you know? Yeah, James, I'm
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: sure they didn't. I will I bet my left nut
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 2: that they did and my right one. Let's see, you
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 2: look at the logo. He you welcome in your logic
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 2: is great. The pains telephone conversation. Surely would Ruth and
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: Michael not realize bro, you got to know, I mean,
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 2: how did I mean? Okay, Marina's staying with Ruth Payne.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: You better believe her phone is bugged at the very
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: least because Marina is there, or because Ruth Payne was
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 2: CIA asset, whatever you want to believe. But once Marina
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 2: moved out into her own house after the assassination, after
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 2: getting away from James Herbert Martin, we have the documents.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: The FBI bugged her house, tapped her phones, physical surveillance
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 2: for a period of four to six weeks, and then
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 2: they finally gave it up. This is what they do.
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 2: They go deep, homeboy, they go deep. And if you
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: don't think for a second, I mean, Hoover was on
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 2: top of his shit. Say what you will about jag
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: Or Hoover, but he demanded the best from his agents
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 2: and the most extensive and correct intelligence information from his agents,
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: and he expected the chain of command. He expected things
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: to be written a certain way and reported a certain way.
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 2: And it's why we have all these documents. Man.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: Just imagine what we don't have. Imagine what we don't have.
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: You see what we do have, Imagine what we don't have.
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 2: Oh Slee shit anyway, folks, we're over two hours in.
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 2: It's Friday night. I just got paid. I need to
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 2: go get laid. No, I'm joking. Friday night, just got paid,
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 2: and that's a pod. Next Friday Night, I potentially have
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 2: a guess coming on. I won't reveal who it is
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: because it's not written in stone yet, but let's just
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: say it might be someone of the lone nut persuasion.
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 2: And I don't mean he just has one nut, just
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe a loan nutter. We'll see. But until then,
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: I'll see you next week's Wednesday members only show, and
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 2: we're recording another Quick Hits in the morning to be
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 2: released probably early next week Monday morning. Maybe I don't
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: know for sure, but that's coming so we'll be on
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 2: the lookout for that. And until then, folks, pay attention
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 2: to your own research, keep your eyes open, pay attention
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 2: to what is written and also what is not. The
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: negative template will help you every time, will help you
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 2: every time. So Dino, that being said, get your fat
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 2: ass in here, boy, record, come to set and I'll
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 2: show you the case. Thank you, James, Thank you. South
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 2: to West, I try try. Thank you. If you look
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 2: at the louver, I just like saying your name the
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 2: greateous lives. I've told him the name of the truth,
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 2: the greateous try committed. You can look at it again.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 2: It just watch the replay after these lives are done,
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 2: He's click on the live tab and it should be there,
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 2: or click on the podcast tab. It should be there
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 2: under the lone guming podcast tab inside the podcast tab.
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 2: If you watch all the replays of all the live service,
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 2: not just this one. I don't know. Tiny allegedly soon.
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 2: I think you said he was going to be gone
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 2: for five weeks, so whatever that may be, I don't know.
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 2: Good times, Big night to you, Mike, Good night Trey,
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 2: Big bad jocks up in the house in a while.
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 2: Oh you're welcome. It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. Let's see.
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, hit the damn thumbs up for you leave
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 2: and look real important, real quick. Hit the little notification bell.
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 2: It will let you know every time I set up
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 2: a live stream or publish a video, and that way
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 2: you know exactly what time I'm going to start, because
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 2: I've had to make a couple of adjustments recently, and
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 2: people come in earlier, they come in late. But if
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 2: you bring hit that little bell. It'll send you a
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 2: notification letting you know exactly what time the stream will
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 2: shark will start and it's a very useful tool and
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 2: it helps me. So thumbs up, y'all comment to the
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: hell out of this. I appreciate it, and you gotta
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 2: subscribe to comment. If you haven't subscribed yet, make sure
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 2: you do that too. Hit the thumbs up button. I
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 2: appreciate it, Share it if you like it on your
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 2: social media once we're done here for all the people
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 2: out there just can't get enough the jfk assassination, which
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure who all that is, but yeah, I
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 2: appreciate it. Thanks for watching and we'll see you soon.
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 2: Happy weekend and good night and peace. Peace