Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Snakedance (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Snakedance (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back to. I have some of a blunt penknife
• 0:03
  the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
• 0:05
  I'm back. Hello Joe.
• 0:07
  Hello. Yes, hello.
• 0:09
  Hello. Excuse me, you've got a Sinister
• 0:12
  red glow in your eye. Humming my garden silly.
• 0:18
  Look at me sigh. I'm not going to you for
• 0:23
  reminding me of the most terrifying parts of Doctor Who
• 0:27
  from when I was a child, this is the story that's It scared me to
• 0:31
  death and Doctor Who didn't scare me very much, but this
• 0:34
  one, this was the one that got me.
• 0:37
  Why was that then? Well it's for a lot of reasons
• 0:41
  that I was very unsettled by Kinder.
• 0:44
  I've been taught. Well, I think everyone can now
• 0:46
  guess which story we were talking about, it's like dogs.
• 0:49
  Yes. But this was on another level to
• 0:55
  to kinder and the whole position thing.
• 1:00
  Lutely terrified. Me.
• 1:01
  I'm losing control of who you are and seeing Tegan who we know
• 1:07
  is very Resolute and very knows herself and seeing her sort of
• 1:14
  broken and someone else in her body.
• 1:18
  I mean, have you ever had a giant snake in?
• 1:21
  Marin you Joe? I mean, what happened to you?
• 1:30
  So I'm calling around inside me. No, not really, it seems
• 1:35
  unlikely but also is in between season 19 and season 21 of the
• 1:45
  most wonderful Doctor Who tangential books ever was
• 1:49
  released, which was Peter Davison's book of alien
• 1:52
  monsters. Oh yeah.
• 1:54
  It's just a little, which I got from the book club at school.
• 2:00
  So I remember that very well but that had in it a story called
• 2:06
  semolina and the story of semolina was about a sentient
• 2:11
  being that this girl found in her in her bowl of semolina that
• 2:17
  she was eating for pudding and it it sort of manifested itself
• 2:21
  in there. But it wanted to possess her
• 2:24
  baby brother. and instead, I'm going to possess your baby
• 2:28
  brother and she said, and it turns out that She does a deal
• 2:34
  with this alien creature that she's going to protect her baby
• 2:38
  brother and I had a baby brother at the time.
• 2:40
  So this was extra extra scary and she said well you'll have to
• 2:44
  take me instead, you can't take my brother and it finishes with
• 2:48
  this line with with the alien in her head saying, oh don't worry,
• 2:53
  you'll get used to it after a few first few years.
• 2:56
  I'm just, oh my God! This is this really, really
• 3:00
  scary. I was seven.
• 3:03
  Your parents are very irresponsible for letting you
• 3:05
  read it and I just remember that.
• 3:08
  And so it sort of all tied up with we've seen Kinder scene,
• 3:14
  then seeing snake dance, which I think is on another line.
• 3:17
  All those things in sequence, brain in Kinder are magnificent
• 3:21
  and wonderful but you don't see very much of the mara possessed
• 3:25
  Tegan in Kinder. It's quite a scene really it is
• 3:28
  like that one. She's so good very sexual wasn't
• 3:31
  shit. Ya sadati.
• 3:33
  To be evil. And so to get sort of re
• 3:37
  episodes of the possessed. IAM in, this one was just on
• 3:42
  another level. Then suddenly, you've lost the
• 3:45
  doctors, lost his friend. And he's trying desperately to
• 3:49
  get, he knows what's happened, but there's so little contact
• 3:53
  between the doctor and the mara Teigen, she is off doing her own
• 3:56
  thing, and manipulating everything in a way that Tegan
• 3:59
  doesn't, and I think it's Janet Fielding.
• 4:03
  Is tour de force in the show. I think this is her Peak.
• 4:06
  That's what I was about to say. Geez, I know I have been known
• 4:08
  to say the odds. Disparaging remark about Janet
• 4:11
  field is acting in dr. Walton man, out of here.
• 4:24
  I think she starts very very high and Greta.
• 4:29
  I don't think brings it brings it down by The time she's doing
• 4:33
  the visitation and Kinder, she's settled on what she's going to
• 4:36
  do. But it takes a little while to
• 4:38
  get down there. I think it takes a couple
• 4:40
  stories to look around and go. Oh, I see, only Matthew or house
• 4:43
  is acting on this level. Everyone else is acting from all
• 4:45
  natural angle. Peter Davison is, yeah, he's
• 4:50
  giving a performance, right? Hey, I've got it.
• 4:54
  You're right her performance, especially in the first episode
• 4:57
  of this where she struggling. And yeah, aggression back to
• 5:01
  being a child. It's a sort of psychological X,
• 5:05
  my exploration of a companion that we don't usually say, no,
• 5:09
  we don't. And that this is still affecting
• 5:13
  her at the start of the next story, which you can hear on
• 5:15
  another episode of the hamster wheel.
• 5:17
  But not more than Undead with Grazer and are you, isn't it?
• 5:21
  Yes, I'm on me. Yes.
• 5:23
  On their two. Yes, two consecutive stories.
• 5:26
  What's going on? If you ask me to do Terminus and
• 5:29
  then how can we not talk about that please?
• 5:34
  That's the last forever ever since never joke.
• 5:37
  It him that we were doing this. We did.
• 5:39
  Yeah, that was. Yeah.
• 5:40
  That was last year. Will sit on my God Society.
• 5:42
  Surprising one day. She what?
• 5:47
  I've always fucking hated semolina.
• 5:49
  Now, I know why. No, yeah, well, those horrible
• 5:52
  creatures waiting to come out and talk over my mind.
• 5:55
  So yeah, so I don't, I read it again a few years back and it
• 5:59
  still gave me again. Still scared me.
• 6:02
  So, It's just something about possession.
• 6:04
  I think that is really always. So I think since Kinder really
• 6:09
  has has been my, my scariest thing, sort of losing control of
• 6:13
  your yourself to something else. Well, you've got here as well as
• 6:18
  well as the scares, and that possession is sorry, the Doctor
• 6:21
  Who has done a lot. So to give it a new thing quite
• 6:24
  like this. Exactly like this where it feels
• 6:27
  original. That's that's pretty good guy.
• 6:30
  But this is also a think Possibly the most sophisticated
• 6:35
  script to have come out of classic who in terms of creating
• 6:40
  a setting in terms of characterizing, its guest cast,
• 6:44
  in terms of giving the doctrine that companion, something
• 6:47
  fantastic to do the dialogue, the theme loss of fee, like,
• 6:53
  this is working on levels. The dogs who does not normally
• 6:56
  were no. This is.
• 6:57
  This is, I always think this is like a Hartnell historical.
• 7:02
  On an alien world and the doctor is exploring this culture and
• 7:08
  finding out how it works and its history and sort of, we're
• 7:14
  finding that out with him, which we haven't you don't get in
• 7:18
  Doctor Who very often in the 80s.
• 7:20
  You don't get a whole culture like this.
• 7:22
  Not, well, it's not not in one story, conducts down this.
• 7:27
  Well, this vividly know and it's again it's one of those worlds
• 7:32
  where You can see where it has its history but also, it will
• 7:38
  carry on after the doctor has left and he hasn't made a huge
• 7:43
  impact on it or vaster joke. Isn't it?
• 7:46
  Is that nobody's listening to her?
• 7:48
  He's own right all the way through.
• 7:50
  Yeah. And it's almost like Christopher
• 7:51
  Bailey playing into the fact that Peter Davison is playing
• 7:54
  the role because he's this young course, little breathless hero
• 7:58
  and it was going well, who is this young idiot?
• 8:00
  You know? Yeah, exactly.
• 8:03
  And it it wouldn't I don't think it would work with any other
• 8:07
  doctor, wouldn't worry? Tom Baker and it was just no,
• 8:10
  this is tailored for Davison. Absolutely.
• 8:13
  And in season 20, there aren't many scripts that are tailored
• 8:18
  to Peter Davison. And so I think has many eyes.
• 8:21
  Has he rises to the occasion and they're coming.
• 8:24
  They're recording this straight off the back of time, flight,
• 8:27
  literally weeks after time, fly, right?
• 8:30
  And the level of confidence, He's got.
• 8:33
  Yeah and Janet fielding and Sarah Sutton.
• 8:36
  Have got in this story are well, up wondering at this point, the
• 8:40
  ratings are in, you know, and they realize their success.
• 8:44
  Not only that. No, I think he recognizes a good
• 8:47
  script when I see one, you know. And your, I think in 20, he does
• 8:53
  seem a little bit lost at times and I think that's how he's
• 8:57
  written for and how he's choosing to play it.
• 9:00
  Yeah, definitely I think that he's Given a lot of exposition
• 9:05
  Airy lines and not a lot of character lines sort of
• 9:08
  throughout this I think we said this in Morgan Undead the to
• 9:11
  understand sigh, it will be the end of me as a Time Lord.
• 9:14
  Yeah, exactly. And there's not much character
• 9:17
  and I think the character work comes back in season 21 and you
• 9:21
  can see from The Awakening onwards, he's seizing the role.
• 9:25
  He absolutely hugely confident that year and so it's a shame.
• 9:30
  We don't get the fourth year here because he's finally worked
• 9:33
  out what he's doing. This also gives him what he
• 9:36
  wanted all along and that is him and Sarah Sutton.
• 9:40
  Yeah, and I'm had together for most of the story brilliantly.
• 9:44
  They are bringing together it and I'm initially happy a bit
• 9:47
  dull. It's not at all.
• 9:49
  No they work. Really, really well.
• 9:52
  Remember that bit in episode 4? Well, we'll get there but where
• 9:56
  someone helps her down and she goes.
• 9:58
  Well, thank you, but it wasn't necessary.
• 10:01
  And then Taylor looks at the end Excellent goes like oh you're in
• 10:04
  trouble. When you get home.
• 10:22
  321 off, we go. The Venetian blinds effect.
• 10:30
  As I've said, when we did more than Undead this is this, my
• 10:34
  comfort Doctor Who titles? These are the ones that just
• 10:36
  feel most Doctor Who to me, every I think everyone has a set
• 10:40
  that just is the right ones. And these are these are one and
• 10:44
  they're not the most exciting times but I love the logo.
• 10:47
  That's my favorite ice cream at the beginning that.
• 10:50
  Yeah. And the Pizza House theme is
• 10:52
  just magnificent. I made a salad back at then
• 10:55
  deny. Sorry.
• 10:56
  You change and Peter, how is someone interesting for this
• 11:02
  story? Because this is not a
• 11:04
  conventional Doctor Who score. It's and we've created this
• 11:08
  school, we have come off the back of what your limbs did,
• 11:12
  little little little music. Giving this something incredibly
• 11:24
  strange and weird, and it's noise and Ambience as well as
• 11:31
  little bits of incidental music, as we know it, as you think
• 11:34
  Peter, how is the strongest of the radio phonic?
• 11:37
  He's the most interesting is he did Kinder as well, didn't he?
• 11:41
  Yes, he did. Which is why he was brought back
• 11:44
  for this one, but there's a bit later on where The God has
• 11:50
  brought Miller's character. John another rice here?
• 11:54
  Yes. Yeah.
• 11:55
  And he's going entertainment step right up, please.
• 11:58
  And there's this really Sinister Riff on.
• 12:01
  That is g music, but it's wrong. It's like great showing the
• 12:05
  Galaxy where it's discordant and not quite right.
• 12:09
  And I think there's more it's a kind of like the second I can do
• 12:13
  to approach. There's more opportunities here
• 12:15
  to do ambient scares. Now some very obvious and I
• 12:21
  think that again is what about this story unsettling as a
• 12:24
  child? Because usually, you've got
• 12:26
  someone buidling away in the background and it's making it
• 12:31
  exciting, but it's not often making it scary.
• 12:35
  And Earth chakra is the same because the music in Earth shock
• 12:38
  is discordant and Weird and that unsettled me, as well.
• 12:43
  Joe, I'm going to make a pun about the production now,
• 12:46
  because this, I think this is quite a stylish production, but
• 12:49
  it is clearly Studio about for the most part.
• 12:51
  Yes. Apart from those film inserts
• 12:53
  that they do and I think this would be amazing on the stage.
• 12:57
  Are you could? Absolutely.
• 12:58
  Yeah, absolutely. Yes, definitely.
• 13:00
  But I also think this is as close as we come to a William
• 13:04
  Hartnell story in the 80s. Yes.
• 13:07
  But the marketplace, the Tardis with the The sort of carpet
• 13:10
  hidden by the training in figure, the sounds of the
• 13:13
  market. Uh-huh.
• 13:15
  And just just how you sort of get absorbed into that world in
• 13:18
  the studio just as you used to look at those hard and it's
• 13:22
  still still just about works well, because it like the heart
• 13:26
  of stories. It's the actors that make it,
• 13:28
  work brilliantly. Yeah.
• 13:29
  Hmm. And of course yeah.
• 13:34
  Oh the Federation has son is bored.
• 13:40
  And that's brilliant, isn't that?
• 13:42
  Well I think that's that's wonderful.
• 13:45
  This is such this is a society that's so decadent.
• 13:49
  And these are the people right at the top and their their Board
• 13:54
  of the history, their Board of everything.
• 13:56
  They've got all these beautiful things around them, but they
• 13:59
  don't understand them. They're just things.
• 14:01
  And well, that's, that's a great thing.
• 14:04
  I was watching the documentary earlier and Rob Sherman who
• 14:07
  gives have wonderful reading on this story.
• 14:09
  I think it's Favorite classical taste or yeah and he says about
• 14:12
  how it's this society that sort of has made tall jury sort of
• 14:18
  marketing of the past. You know, it's all bull balls
• 14:22
  and talk of Mythology and stuff like this but it's all kind of
• 14:26
  cheapens. Yes.
• 14:28
  Well, it's like where we are in the UK, be honest it's all.
• 14:33
  It's the blitz Spirit or you can buy a ball ball of a of a
• 14:36
  Spitfire to hang on your Christmas tree or And all of
• 14:40
  that, it's that he absolutely does that, you know, in Russia.
• 14:43
  But does that in Jubilee? Because he has it that poster,
• 14:46
  Dalek invasion and they're, they're going, oh, you know, you
• 14:50
  could have Dalek a door. Darling juice.
• 14:52
  What's that? Oh, it's never made orange juice
• 14:55
  just with a picture of a Dalek slapped on it, how they sort of
• 14:58
  marketed the past. I mean, that's terrifying is
• 15:01
  what? Because it's the history of this
• 15:05
  world is, you know, this great conflict but they got some what
• 15:11
  how bad it was. And this is why dojin is such a
• 15:14
  fascinating character and he walks away when he finds out
• 15:19
  what it was to go and explore it.
• 15:21
  But ambro is just there, and he's just there for the
• 15:25
  beautiful items, and he doesn't understand any of it.
• 15:29
  And that's why he's a really Great Character Are why I love
• 15:32
  it when the doctor comes in about going on about you, hold
• 15:35
  of the mara will come back, you know, through through the great
• 15:39
  Crystal and he's going. Oh, please.
• 15:41
  And have a quack. The we get one of these every
• 15:43
  week. You know.
• 15:46
  Oh I think the characterization of Lon and is it taverner?
• 15:53
  Yeah, is Sublime. The performances are incredible.
• 15:57
  Yeah, they feel like mother and son.
• 16:00
  I realize a the Lord go on, that's another thing.
• 16:06
  Robert Schumann says, but I picked up on it before then was
• 16:10
  when she looks. She's talking about her husband
• 16:12
  and then she sort of size and goes even then and it just had
• 16:17
  pizza and it's there's that wonderful bit whether talking
• 16:29
  about him going. I'm to watch the snake dancers
• 16:34
  and had to go in Disguise and, and that's where it was.
• 16:38
  The even then comes out. And you just get this, this, you
• 16:42
  can see this man without ever seeing him.
• 16:47
  What she says is, why doesn't she?
• 16:48
  Because I like the fact, she likes people that are bit quirky
• 16:51
  because she says, oh the director before Amber.
• 16:53
  All what was his name? Oh, I don't know.
• 16:55
  But it was much more fun. Yes, that is.
• 16:58
  Dojin isn't it? That's all.
• 17:00
  Yeah. It was so dirty and it was so
• 17:02
  dark. We never got to see anything.
• 17:05
  Imagine your father in Disguise, wonderful.
• 17:10
  That's Colette O'Neill. I don't know what else she's
• 17:13
  done, but she's really, really good.
• 17:16
  She has a way of making even like this a few lines where you
• 17:19
  can tell like Eric's our borders, got his monkey
• 17:21
  fingerprints, all over the scripts and there's a bit where
• 17:24
  she catches miss her hunting for the key.
• 17:25
  And she's just goes. What do you think you're doing
• 17:29
  la la la Malibu. Man, she can even make Erik's
• 17:32
  award dialogue soon. She's great, the Federated.
• 17:38
  As usual was not amused, used my favorite bit is when she stifled
• 17:46
  to the yawn, when Amber always talking to her at the dinner
• 17:48
  party. My lady.
• 17:50
  No? Really.
• 17:51
  This is fascinating. It's a superb piece of work, and
• 17:57
  this is Fiona coming coming in and making this world work and
• 18:03
  choosing absolutely. The right people to play every
• 18:06
  role. She often got these quirky but
• 18:09
  the quote? Yeah, she did.
• 18:10
  Yeah, she got over snake dance Enlightenment.
• 18:17
  It's, it's sort of that. So, yeah.
• 18:19
  But these are the ones she own homework.
• 18:22
  In 1620 is the standout work of season 20 degree.
• 18:26
  Yeah but I bet she also did a couple of quirky Blake's
• 18:28
  Evanston. She as well.
• 18:29
  He did. Yeah I'm support because yeah
• 18:31
  that is we know more quirky episode of Blake's evidence of
• 18:34
  coffee. Chad chapels going.
• 18:37
  Yes, bring it on. Yeah, I lost, but I think like
• 18:44
  she's she's very comfortable, Fiona coming director that she's
• 18:48
  brought in a really strong cast. She's used to working with
• 18:52
  Davison and Sutton and Fielding at this point, and this sort of
• 18:58
  theatrical Doctor Who I think suits her, she because she knows
• 19:03
  how to light it, you know. Yes.
• 19:06
  Yeah it's really really, I do. Yeah.
• 19:08
  And she was the one who in Castro valve up.
• 19:12
  There is why is he wearing? What is that?
• 19:15
  Hello. It's the way that the love and
• 19:19
  tan heart, Sharon. Look as soon as he walks in and
• 19:21
  you just know that they're busy talking about him behind his
• 19:25
  back all the time and laughing at him, you know what's great
• 19:28
  about what includes his lawn rise, even when he's fucking
• 19:30
  possessed, he still doesn't quite loose.
• 19:32
  The arrogance, that's it. No, and that's what The full is
• 19:35
  just exacerbated by the mara in him.
• 19:38
  I'll admit he's going, you know, I'm not coming.
• 19:41
  I'm not coming to the dinner. Yeah.
• 19:42
  She's like. All right.
• 19:43
  Fine. And then she comes back like a
• 19:44
  mother wouldn't goes oh, please come.
• 19:48
  And he still won't garlic still? No.
• 19:51
  And the only thing that prize in the way from that bathe is like
• 19:55
  the promise of a Tegan, isn't it?
• 19:57
  Yeah, it's yeah. Come to my shorty little booth
• 20:03
  and you can do so this is get, as we said earlier on, this is
• 20:08
  one of I'm trying fielding's, tour-de-force moments here where
• 20:11
  under the hypnotism Doing the lines from kinder and then going
• 20:15
  in her six-year-old, reminds me. Once we have Miss kizlet at the
• 20:20
  end of the bells of Saint, John is very similar and very But
• 20:28
  there's something really Sinister about the mara tapping
• 20:30
  into her memories as a child. Absolutely one.
• 20:34
  Just just the and it's that Freddy Krueger thing of
• 20:36
  attacking you through your dreams.
• 20:38
  Yeah. And there's also something about
• 20:44
  the doctor here as well, and the way he is.
• 20:54
  Some taking Tegan back through all of this because he has to
• 20:57
  know what's going on. And the way he he's sort of
• 21:02
  presenting her with the information that they're in the
• 21:04
  Sumerian Empire and he's very aggressive, he is and necessary.
• 21:10
  Even goes a woman is she doctor stop it but yeah I think we yeah
• 21:14
  we get that shortly. Don't worry and yeah it's very
• 21:18
  interesting Dynamic. I always feel like like Davidson
• 21:22
  at his best. Is really thinking about the
• 21:24
  same. There's a sequence in a bit
• 21:26
  right where he's doing the whatever is there, Delta wave
• 21:29
  thing or whatever it is. But there's going in our ears
• 21:32
  and stop her from here in the Mara.
• 21:34
  And throughout the whole scene, he's shouting his head off
• 21:36
  because there's a noise going and then he suddenly realizes
• 21:39
  that it got any dropped his voice down.
• 21:41
  All of us are the Angels really fun in a way that Davis is not
• 21:44
  always characterized it as a sort of fun way.
• 21:47
  No, and he got his Marketplace bustling, lots of extras.
• 21:53
  As we don't get lots of extras, this is really good.
• 21:55
  I don't give a shit that this looks like it's in the studio.
• 21:58
  I don't care if there's lots going on is visually
• 22:01
  interesting. Yes.
• 22:02
  And it's funny where he goes. What is it dare?
• 22:06
  You come face-to-face with a finely unfavorable children,
• 22:09
  half price price. It's all, it's all so tawdry is
• 22:15
  that last line? There you go.
• 22:17
  Oh, that sounds terrible. This was your money.
• 22:22
  So funny. Oh, I'm being fed to Spirit.
• 22:25
  That's caring. Isn't that scary old yellow
• 22:29
  scary though? That winter furniture.
• 22:36
  So terrifying? Well, sake around in these days.
• 22:40
  No, I'm, well, not in the UK. I don't think so where they got
• 22:44
  that. From always thought.
• 22:48
  Snow you saying, yeah, go inside.
• 22:49
  Hey yeah, you've got to see it. And then look what happens.
• 22:57
  I bet that go away, she's shot. Yeah, the way she shot up and
• 23:02
  just hearing the moral voice again, we've all had that
• 23:05
  moment. I'm more worried about a
• 23:06
  nightmare with kind of Vulcan salute, Lee.
• 23:09
  Mmm, that's really great. Oh yeah, I love this as well.
• 23:13
  It's like, then do young man. Tell us who are you and then?
• 23:17
  Yes. What's in your shoddy little?
• 23:21
  Boom, is horrible, isn't it? Yes.
• 23:26
  Absolutely deserves a perfect. Yeah, deserve that camp costume
• 23:30
  later on. Yeah, but this is one of the
• 23:33
  first performances of his career and it's what by all accounts
• 23:38
  Jonathan Morris who I think it's a beautifully understated
• 23:41
  performance. Yes I do lutely and develops a
• 23:45
  great rapport with Sarah Sutton. And Peter days later on he was a
• 23:49
  bit per hour because he was basically the name in this he
• 23:53
  was yeah, absolutely. He did he Had not long before
• 23:56
  this done and adaptation of Beau geste, which was directed by,
• 24:03
  Douglas Campfield. I'm for the BBC.
• 24:05
  Classic cereals with Terrance dicks, and and Barry Letts,
• 24:08
  which I watched and I loved. So this was sort of a very
• 24:13
  similar time, so he I recognized him from that.
• 24:16
  So, you know, I am sorry. This is a complete Divergence
• 24:19
  here for a second, but I've been watching that the Charles,
• 24:21
  Dickens 70s ones are watched Pickwick papers, which was
• 24:25
  produced, Zeus by Berra less brilliant.
• 24:26
  Yes, that's really good hilarious.
• 24:29
  And we just watched the Oliver Twist that was produced by its
• 24:32
  magnificent. Isn't it really good?
• 24:35
  I've not seen a better Oliver Twist and that know, I think
• 24:38
  that is what? Yeah, what definitely
• 24:40
  definitive. It's absolutely aware.
• 24:42
  He killed Nancy. Yes, so scary.
• 24:46
  Yeah. Anyway, sorry.
• 24:48
  Boxes bikes like dolls. What do you think of the the
• 24:54
  snake mouth cave entry? I'll pick that sort of works.
• 25:00
  She won't help much because again, because I've been because
• 25:05
  we're in a world that is very stagey and not quite real.
• 25:10
  It it absolutely fits with the marketplace.
• 25:13
  If it's with everything and that's fine, what see people
• 25:17
  would look at it now and I'm probably laugh at it and not get
• 25:22
  it. But I think it works as part of
• 25:25
  this world, you get immersed in this world was really fantastic.
• 25:29
  Is the the cave wall with the snakes.
• 25:33
  And I think I could be wrong. I think Christopher Bailey
• 25:35
  actually drew that and said that's because he basically he's
• 25:42
  not it doesn't lie about how unimpressed he was by the
• 25:47
  production value of Kinder no entry and he says look II.
• 25:52
  I knew I could do better is what he says.
• 25:54
  And I knew they could do better but I need to play to their
• 25:57
  strengths. Yes.
• 25:59
  And quite often with Doctor Who you can see Writers come for
• 26:03
  their first story and I'm wildly ambitious and then for their
• 26:07
  sick. If they come back for a second
• 26:08
  story there, right? This is more actually what is
• 26:11
  achievable? This should Bob Baker and Dave
• 26:13
  Martin. Whether we're gonna go into the
• 26:17
  doctors body with. Yeah.
• 26:20
  They could do that, that's okay. Yes, you can.
• 26:22
  Have a skull Landing in Hyde Park.
• 26:24
  What are you doing? I'll see this is great where
• 26:28
  she's reluctant to go towards and she can't say anything
• 26:32
  because she's sort of under the hypnosis but she's absolutely
• 26:36
  terrified and that's reworking. Yeah there's like a scream that
• 26:41
  keeps playing huh. Yeah, she can't hear you and the
• 26:50
  weird noise when she's, we see it from her point of view, and
• 26:54
  the doctor and miss a looking like that.
• 26:56
  Oh, these are lovely. It's okay, lovely effect.
• 26:59
  Isn't it off of her vision? Yeah, they're sort of quan tail
• 27:03
  fuzziness go, huh? Yeah, it just adds to the
• 27:06
  weirdness as we talked over Tegan stream at the start of the
• 27:10
  story where they're sort of moving her, sort of up with Kwan
• 27:14
  tell into the snake mouth and things like that, which is Sort
• 27:18
  of Hawking back a bit to what they did in Kinder, but again,
• 27:23
  sort of moving it on and it has that dream like feel where it's
• 27:28
  not quite real and things are happening with strange cuts and
• 27:32
  things like that. They wouldn't normally happen.
• 27:34
  Superb, use of sound effects as well, when we owe it to the
• 27:38
  dream and it goes like Oh, yeah, and it's dick Mills and Peter
• 27:45
  Howell working together because I was listening to the score for
• 27:49
  this story. So, earlier on, before we did
• 27:52
  this, and a lot of what you'd think were dick Mill sound,
• 27:55
  effects were actually created by Peter how because they tied him
• 27:58
  with the music he was doing. So, the background, I noticed of
• 28:03
  the room where lawn and tan harar is the same sound as in
• 28:08
  the background of the wind chimes in.
• 28:10
  In Kinder. So your time that Mara stories
• 28:13
  together, did they suffer do that as well?
• 28:17
  Yeah. And so it's just the attention
• 28:20
  to detail is is really what makes it and yeah there's the
• 28:23
  snake on the wall and it's really good.
• 28:26
  It's really fat. Its kind of underlit so sort of
• 28:29
  his mate. It's been Hugh now gold is.
• 28:31
  Yeah absolutely. Yeah.
• 28:32
  And it's sort of catches the light every so often and it's
• 28:36
  weird and angular and odd. I love the fact that he's
• 28:40
  banging on about The similar errors you guys.
• 28:42
  Oh, do be quiet. But you know what, this is one
• 28:46
  of those stories and it's will always credit Robert Holmes for
• 28:49
  this but other writers could get it right as well.
• 28:52
  Now you just get so many details about the Empire, the history
• 28:58
  and you get a like a big, mural painted.
• 29:02
  Yeah. This author of the universe and
• 29:04
  then you've got the cheapstakes. We have those as toys when I was
• 29:08
  young. I had a few of those And that's
• 29:11
  enough to send taken over the edge because it's, yeah, I don't
• 29:14
  like snakes if someone came out to me again look, yeah, I'll be
• 29:17
  like again. It goes back to them, selling
• 29:22
  their history and it's talk, Audrey and plastic, and shiny.
• 29:26
  And they don't remember what actually happened to them.
• 29:30
  I think the doctor is used to people in Authority, listening
• 29:33
  to him, you know, remembers being Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker
• 29:36
  when people were taken seriously and now he comes around, he's
• 29:38
  Peter Davison and no one. Throw them out.
• 29:42
  If that he gets, and then he gets more manic because no one's
• 29:46
  listening to him. And so, he appears more, more
• 29:49
  weird, and strange, and nutty, but birthday dinner and he goes,
• 29:54
  it will appear here on the Noosa and you can imagine John Pertwee
• 30:00
  striding into that and everyone stopping this today's or top
• 30:04
  layer at the dinner with that. Yeah, but but because it's a
• 30:09
  younger doctor. No one takes him, seriously.
• 30:12
  And that's, that's the that should have been the nerve of
• 30:15
  this doctor all the way through. As we said, he's the old man in
• 30:19
  a young body and suddenly no one is paying him.
• 30:22
  Any attention. What's interesting is in 21 in
• 30:26
  season 21, I think. I feel like he's suddenly gains
• 30:30
  like confidence in himself. Yes.
• 30:32
  In how we projected on the story site, Frontier, sand and resolve
• 30:36
  that he's allowed. Yeah, it's so commanding but
• 30:39
  yeah, we have to go Fruit for these stages first.
• 30:43
  Talking about Kinder early. Yeah, what are you?
• 30:45
  You can understand why Christopher Bailey might have
• 30:47
  thought he was on by Steady ground.
• 30:50
  It well, he was out. He was asking for a studio
• 30:51
  forest and a few sort of futuristic sets.
• 30:54
  Well, a couple of years earlier, that did Creature from the pit.
• 30:57
  And they did a fan motor to yeah, Studio.
• 31:00
  Exactly. If there's, yeah, if they've
• 31:01
  done the forest scenes on film, imagine what it would have
• 31:04
  looked like, you know what he's done here is he's basically
• 31:07
  decided no the thing the BBC does well is Head trauma.
• 31:11
  Yeah, so we'll make me an alien period.
• 31:14
  Drama a futuristic period drama was good.
• 31:16
  Acting, you know? Yes, this hand.
• 31:19
  Oh, this eyes. This shit me up.
• 31:22
  Who tell you this. This was the scariest bit of
• 31:27
  Doctor Who from my whole childhood was this scene?
• 31:31
  Well, that's great. Is is how it goes from Comedy
• 31:33
  where she's going. I flutter my fingers and tell.
• 31:35
  Yes, ever, they want to hear and it's also the slow moment.
• 31:41
  Tegan changes from being scared Tegan to the super-confident,
• 31:47
  mara Teigen. That's how she got playful.
• 31:50
  Yeah, that's it's within its within almost the same line and
• 31:55
  you could see her whole manner change in certain stories.
• 32:06
  Now, she's really strong and the image of the skull.
• 32:10
  Owl in the bull. It's simple well done.
• 32:14
  It is it's kind of smiling. Everything that's really scary.
• 32:19
  Yeah. It's you watch, watch.
• 32:21
  Janet Fielding in the background and she's not center of
• 32:23
  attention, but you can see something is happening.
• 32:28
  I love our, this is this sold out as well.
• 32:31
  This was just like, I'll just tell her whatever they want to
• 32:33
  know as long as it gets me a buck.
• 32:38
  Mmm. But again like this is all Very
• 32:40
  simple. It's a small set.
• 32:42
  It's to act. Yeah, crystal ball a simple
• 32:44
  special effect. But it's really effective.
• 32:52
  Look. Now, is it true?
• 32:56
  She's terrifying and she's kind of like preparing a tape of it
• 33:00
  now. Yeah, hmm.
• 33:03
  I would let I love this. We cut back to the Tardis -
• 33:05
  well, that's all she's wearing nothing.
• 33:07
  She'll be. All right.
• 33:08
  And she's not wearing the puresole digging around in a
• 33:10
  very big city. But you know sometimes you do
• 33:14
  have to spell things out a little bit for the kitty.
• 33:16
  We absolutely. Yeah.
• 33:17
  For the seven-year-old Simon hearts in the audience at the
• 33:20
  time but like there isn't a lot of money in this scene, but it's
• 33:24
  the ideas are scared and the presentation.
• 33:28
  Absolutely. I don't scream, I don't know
• 33:35
  that woman and you don't ever forget, oh, I know again on the
• 33:41
  commentary, they were all Really critical of her performance, but
• 33:45
  she's absolutely right for what she's doing.
• 33:47
  She is, he's great. Yeah, she is got all my God.
• 33:51
  So what a fantastic episode wasn't, that's how you do a pulp
• 33:54
  one, this have it. I'm that's got a lot going on in
• 33:57
  it. And what's really interesting is
• 33:59
  obviously like as an adult, you've come to appreciate the
• 34:02
  acting and you've come to appreciate the sort of
• 34:05
  subtleties in the script and things like that, but I was
• 34:08
  about to say to, you know, Will child think this is too slow and
• 34:11
  a bit boring. Oh, it was just Weird petrified
• 34:14
  you as Kate as well and seriously did I cannot think of
• 34:19
  another Doctor Who story that got me like this and then were
• 34:24
  were moments in most with when I was younger with Doctor, Who it
• 34:31
  was moments of squeamishness? I think, from the, in the 80s.
• 34:37
  So when we you see Snyder's body in Earth shock and it's just
• 34:42
  Lobby and green It was more like that's horrible but it wasn't
• 34:46
  scary. The Cybermen was scary.
• 34:48
  I didn't like the Cybermen. I think because we have big
• 34:52
  cupboards on our on the landing, in our house that I thought
• 34:56
  Cybermen were hiding him when I because it would be dark
• 34:59
  upstairs because my dad would turn all the lights off in the
• 35:01
  house. So I'd have to go up two beds
• 35:03
  and you weren't allowed to put the lights on so sort of had to
• 35:06
  run past the cupboards because the Cybermen were in there but
• 35:09
  and scare off ripping off his face was scary but it was Also
• 35:14
  amazing and Doctor Who was like an adventure more than anything
• 35:19
  and you'd have moments of Jeopardy and Motors Allure.
• 35:22
  Don't like this but it wasn't scary for me.
• 35:25
  But this was this was under different scary level.
• 35:30
  I think like when I was younger, the things that scare me the
• 35:33
  most, it wasn't like the big set pieces like the side margin or
• 35:37
  things like that, but I loved it was exciting.
• 35:40
  The things that's gave me were moments when Adults were
• 35:44
  panicked. Mom, in adults knew they were
• 35:49
  going to die. So, I always cite the bit in
• 35:51
  case of androzani. Where chalak suddenly realizes
• 35:56
  that mod, burst is going to kill him and I was like yeah I was
• 35:59
  like I think I think I've never really thought.
• 36:01
  Oh my God, what would it be like?
• 36:02
  So no, no. What are you going to die?
• 36:05
  You know, that's Panic scream. He gives there is over the bit
• 36:10
  in kouzef anywhere, Wainwright dies as well.
• 36:13
  Realize that he's trying really hard but that book and then
• 36:15
  realizes no they're gonna kill me like it on.
• 36:19
  That's really scary but I think as well like the snake Motif in
• 36:24
  Kinder and his sneaker. It's so clever because not only
• 36:28
  are snakes Carry On The Run because they are.
• 36:31
  So a bit unknowable and sniffing they can kind of jump at Ya as
• 36:36
  ya else in this at the end it goes, comes leaping up, then it
• 36:40
  writes like but also like The Possession thing as as a as an
• 36:43
  image of possession of this snake, like calling itself
• 36:46
  around your soul or a rainbow and Sinister as hell.
• 36:51
  Yeah, very Sinister. Look, it will you promise to
• 36:55
  hold my hand during episode for look like I'm going to need it.
• 36:58
  I tell you give me a hug. Come on.
• 37:01
  Okay. Thank you.