Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 445- Han & Holden Nguyen - The Amazing Race Contestants Season #37

Transcript

445- Han & Holden Nguyen - The Amazing Race Contestants Season #37 · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to welcome you both to the Vietnamese podcast.
0:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been coordinating this for a long time.
0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I have Haan and Holden Whin.
0:08
[SPEAKER_01]: They are both contestants from season thirty seven, which is twenty twenty five's amazing race.
0:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the podcast.
0:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks Kelly for having us.
0:17
[SPEAKER_03]: This has been in the work, so I'm excited.
0:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm stoked.
0:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so happy that you're stoked because I am too.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be interesting.
0:25
[SPEAKER_01]: What inspired you both to sign up to this race?
0:30
[SPEAKER_02]: At least for me, it's like a three part thing.
0:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Close scope, mid scope, and then like
0:35
[SPEAKER_02]: long-term type thing.
0:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I like it started probably December of twenty twenty three.
0:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't doing very well academically.
0:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I was kind of just burnt out.
0:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I was a super tired of school.
0:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, Frank.
0:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So like in high school or in your college already.
0:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just really burnt out of school and I didn't really want to do it.
1:01
[SPEAKER_02]: At that point, I just wasn't doing well academically.
1:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had a couple friends who'd taken breaks.
1:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And instead of studying for my final, I instead decided to binge two seasons of the amazing race, which was something I hadn't watched since I was like,
1:17
[SPEAKER_02]: like, thirteen or fourteen.
1:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, wow, this would be really fun.
1:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I ended up not doing well on that final at all, but I ended up going home and telling on like, hey, we used to watch the show as kids.
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it would be really, really fun if we did.
1:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we should apply.
1:36
[SPEAKER_02]: We should just figure it out.
1:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we'd have a great time.
1:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I think like as a kid, I'd always wanted to do it.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the midskill thing was like who doesn't want to travel the world and who doesn't want to compete.
1:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I think competition is probably like the best thing ever.
1:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I also think that.
1:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Seeing the world in the way that like the show presents it is so cool.
1:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you will never, ever, ever, ever.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was talking to another contestant.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they were like, you'll never have some multi-billion dollar company rent out of space for you to do some culturally significant activity.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
2:09
[SPEAKER_02]: just so that people can watch you do that culturally significant activity.
2:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's really cool.
2:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And then before you go further, I want to pinpoint this very unique perspective that you have, who do you think inspired you to think that way?
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's a pretty unique, I think.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: for somebody to go, I could do that.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be a part of that very cool thing.
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't, you know, we're all like nine to five people, whatever, and we're just living our lives, but then, and you're going to school at Stanford, I believe, right?
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was at Stanford.
2:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And what?
2:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, where did you get that idea?
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you get that sort of wave thinking?
2:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And I talk about that because I kind of always had that in a sense.
2:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I just remember as a kid, feeling very, very strongly about things happening in my life.
3:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt very strongly that one day I was going to go to Stanford, and then I felt very strongly about even military school.
3:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember as a kid, my parents were threatening me with military school, because I went to military school, and I just felt in my heart of hearts that I was going to end up at military school.
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and so like all these things kind of happened and like I don't know the best way to like kind of summarize it is like there's this mark Cuban quote where he's like the luckiest guy out there is somewhere and it's got to be somebody so why isn't it me and I kind of feel the same way like someone has to do it and so like why wouldn't it be me?
3:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I kind of feel like that has like
3:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Loki really guided my life.
3:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Someone's got to be on season thirty-seven in the amazing race.
3:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Based off of like, like, they're pushed for diversity in their cast.
3:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Someone's got to be Asian on that cast.
3:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why can't it be me?
3:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
3:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel not like really, yeah, like that.
4:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I've never thought about like what happens if it doesn't happen?
4:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I've kind of just thought of like, okay, let's try it.
4:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And then if it does happen, like, okay, then it was meant to be.
4:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a cool perspective.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
4:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's inspiring for audience members to hear something like that.
4:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, somebody's got to be feeling that thing, that's going to be me.
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And that kind of like push forward, I think in life and your mental state, it's pretty cool to hear that.
4:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so thanks for sharing it.
4:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's move back to the midst scope that you're just about to get into.
4:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so that mid scope was just like traveling the world and like getting this once opportunity.
4:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you hear that ding if it's in my, sorry, I'm going to close out of that real quick.
4:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, sorry about that.
4:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I think long term scope, like, I don't know, I like grew up and like watching the amazing race, like is one of the only shows with like Asian participants in it.
5:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, I don't know, I think as a kid, like, you don't really conceptualize what you see on TV, you kind of just throw like, oh, that's just what it is, like, that's just what the characters look like.
5:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But then like having the opportunity to like make a character that like some Asian kid gets to see.
5:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's pretty cool.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that was really, really fun.
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's like an unintended consequence that like
5:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're not super conscious of, but like, I wasn't super conscious of, but it was something that like, you do think about a little bit.
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, as having this conversation with my friend, and we were like, she was asking me, like, when you do something or like think about your future, do you think about how it represents like Asian people as a whole or like the enemy as people as a whole?
5:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's definitely true.
5:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like, I think that there was just like some like small inherent part that I was representing Asian people, but like,
5:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, to do pretty well on the show at twenty one and like knowing I was representing Asian people was like pretty cool.
5:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually really cool.
6:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So when do you let Han know about your idea and how does this like, oh, unfurl how is it open up?
6:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I failed the mentor.
6:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I failed that final.
6:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I get home for winter break.
6:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I picture the idea.
6:16
[SPEAKER_02]: um she watches the amazing race herself and then she has a flight book to Sri Lanka and three days before she left for Sri Lanka um we put together our addition video and we made it work wow wow so it was a really tight turnaround and that was about a week before the submission deadline was due well huh what what was your thoughts when your brother first camey
6:38
[SPEAKER_03]: just like a little bit of context.
6:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I was on already like a six month career break.
6:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just feeling burnt out directionless and I think something that's important to me and I think something that honestly our parents didn't still in us probably not in the way that they wanted to, but just like living life with intention and like creating the lives that we want to live.
7:02
[SPEAKER_01]: They did not instill that in you.
7:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like they instilled it in us.
7:08
[SPEAKER_03]: But their definition of intention, for example, would be like, get that comfortable job, build that family.
7:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't stray off of the beaten path.
7:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's intentional for them.
7:22
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think just the way holding an eye grew up and just the way our brains are wired.
7:27
[SPEAKER_03]: That looks very different to us.
7:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we like to live lives that we're passionate about.
7:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that being said, like, yeah, I decided to leave my job after two years.
7:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I graduated college, worked for two years, and then I left.
7:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And I decided to just travel and figure out what was out there.
7:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't know what I was looking for at the time.
7:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was really just on a journey of mindfulness and personal exploration.
7:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And I ended up coming back for Christmas because Christmas is very important to our family.
8:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And at that point, I had been traveling for probably around six months.
8:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And so Holden pitched me this idea while we were both home.
8:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And my first thought was, I mean,
8:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, sometimes you grow up and you have these childhood dreams and like, there's some dreams that you kind of let go of, you kind of hold on to, you know, and I feel like this was one of those dreams that I kind of had just like let go of and I was like, okay, it would be cool if we did it, but like not super attached the idea.
8:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think I guess I did watch some amazing race, but like when Holden pitched me the idea, I was thinking like, you know what, like why not just try?
8:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, did I have faith that we could win a million dollars?
8:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And but I felt like part of the journey that I was on was just like I also realized the value of spending time with my loved ones and holden I hadn't spent like four plus years together.
9:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Like our relationship was straight up just when I was home, holding would do something that would piss me off.
9:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and so holding an eye, you know, we would get into an argument when I was home and
9:12
[SPEAKER_03]: We wouldn't resolve it the way we resolve our arguments was like I would just fly back to the east coast which is where I went to school.
9:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Hold them would fly back down south to military school and then we would meet up again the next year.
9:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I feel like I don't know family is something that's really important to us and
9:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
9:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll always have Holden's back, no matter what.
9:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's just the way we were raised, but I knew and I felt like there's so much growing to do, like, on our end in terms of, like, being able to work together.
9:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And I felt like this was just a fantastic opportunity.
9:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And just seeing how much it also meant to hold in with something else that, like, also, I don't know, convinced me and pushed me over the edge to submit that audition video.
9:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just happened to work out.
9:57
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just thankful for that.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make a random question tangent here.
10:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Are your parents pushing at all times unconditional love and bonding between the two of you or are they not really focused on any of that and just like one of you guys fight they're just like do whatever you want.
10:20
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a complicated question.
10:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like
10:26
[SPEAKER_03]: The minds that they have, and I think it's a bad one, but they see it as our problem.
10:33
[SPEAKER_03]: If we're fighting, it's our problem to solve, and there's only so much they can do to intervene, to fix it.
10:43
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't like seeing us fight so they would prefer that we get along together.
10:49
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that's kind of how they see it.
10:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's no push to be like, you should fix this.
10:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we just know that there's hope on their end that we will.
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I asked that because from my perspective of coming from an old school Vietnamese parents to younger parents like yours and younger children, it's second third generation, like in the future, my parents and I when I teach my children and this is like very Vietnamese to America, you know, the difference.
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I said to my kids, they're eight and six now.
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, your biggest failure in life to me
11:30
[SPEAKER_01]: is if you guys don't get along.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my biggest, I don't care where you go to school.
11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care how much money you make, but if you two end up not talking, then this whole experiment about leaving Vietnam and leaving communism, whatever, and you two are not talking to each other.
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the biggest failure.
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: of the entire Vietnamese culture is that you two are not talking and that's like for me I hold that so sacred so when you two reached out to me this was definitely one of the points that I wanted to like ask you about because you had to work together and have seen your dynamic you know like on these pre-interview calls
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, I don't take any excuse for not getting along.
12:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like one of those things where.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very personal talking to both of you for me because I demand that for my children.
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And the part reason why I do talk about it and force this upon them is because if you can't have each other's back as blood as siblings,
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Then where are you going to be rooted in twenty thirty years with the outside world or your spouse or your own children?
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be easier for you to cut relationships off like, you know, why people?
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They do it.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They just cut it off and it's like not a big deal.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's my sort of like paradigm shift.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Reverse in reverse when it comes to the new generation of Vietnamese people.
13:02
[SPEAKER_03]: So you feel like the new generation of Vietnamese people, like, doesn't have that family condition.
13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we don't.
13:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't because it's not programmed from our parents' mouth.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like saying,
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: on my dying day like my dying day if you guys are going to move into the trajectory of never talking to each other because you're so different than I failed as a father I failed as a Vietnamese father to instill this idea this is something that we bring from
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: the old country and a lot of old countries like Mexico or all these old country traditions bring this idea of family unconditional bonds and I don't think that we as new Americans are bringing that
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: strong enough into our relationships.
13:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do that with my brother.
13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was born in the United States and my brother.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, we grew up like, fist the cuffs.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're like throwing down physically.
14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And then as I got an older, I was like, wait a minute.
14:09
[SPEAKER_01]: If he and I are not talking or we're fighting, we are, we are failures.
14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, that's just in my mind as a Vietnamese person.
14:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's a it's a very easy thing to do if you say I'm the younger one unconditionally I will back you up and if you're wrong or if I'm wrong I would just do my best to communicate a little bit and then at the end of the day I would just step back with my brother I just pull back and I let him be
14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: right and I let him be the leader because he's a year older than me and that's how we do it in the Vietnamese tradition and if it blocks my life then I'll let him know but if it doesn't block my life and it's just like words I'll let it go.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, I'm not telling you guys how to live.
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, you know, I'm just telling you how I have been going through the world in the last ten, fifteen years as a result of studying Vietnamese culture and seeing like when I go back to Vietnam, I see that it's beautiful to see the way that this is stacked up in Vietnamese culture.
15:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like something is just that even when you watch the show, I don't think, I don't think justice is the right word.
15:27
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, I think holding a night, we both have very strong personalities.
15:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, that is just, this is just what's going to happen.
15:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think like, it's a beautiful thing that we both have strong personalities.
15:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the reason why we were so successful in the show was because like, we are fighters and we did not give up.
15:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that like there were so many arguments that we had that were honestly kind of not dirty but like really gotten to the thick of it.
15:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think like there's a beautiful thing knowing that like
16:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew Holden would never give up on me and I knew that he would never give up like I knew that I would never give up on Holden and Holden would never give up on me just because of like that is how we were raised but I think also something that's like interesting that you bring up is like we grew up in a very white neighborhood and so like
16:25
[SPEAKER_03]: We're like, in this in between phase, we're like, you know, at home, we have like this instilled in us, like, you know, blood above all else.
16:32
[SPEAKER_03]: But then like, you know, we have white friends where that's just like not necessarily the case.
16:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like, especially since leaving for college and coming back, like noticing in particular, like my dad, like when there's Vietnamese people,
16:47
[SPEAKER_03]: in a crowd like he always notices like he always will pick it out and will make an effort to like you know talk to his brother talk to his sister and stuff like that and like I feel like that's something that like I think that we still hold close to our heart that like for myself trying to navigate and like have that as a part of my life in terms of like okay like yes
17:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm second gen.
17:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, family is super important to me.
17:15
[SPEAKER_03]: But like I guess like where do I fit into this big puzzle?
17:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Because like in Italy, I don't look out for listening to Vietnamese in the streets and like saying hi to my brother and my sister and I'm like, is that the standard?
17:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I have no idea.
17:28
[SPEAKER_03]: But on the other hand, I'm not like going to ignore them.
17:31
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know.
17:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Holden, do you have thoughts on that?
17:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I don't know if I like,
17:40
[SPEAKER_02]: fully agree with Han on this?
17:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
17:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of like, maybe it's because I got the upbringing in a different way or like, I don't know.
17:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I see the value in both cultures in the way I was raised.
18:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that in America, the emphasis of individualism is like probably the most powerful thing.
18:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like what has made America, America, and the emphasis on the individual.
18:15
[SPEAKER_02]: However, I also think that like maybe doing military school or being raised by like Vietnamese parents, you learn a lot about the importance of the institution is.
18:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And like what is the sacrifice of the individual with respect to the institution?
18:29
[SPEAKER_02]: How much do you individual actually add to the institution?
18:33
[SPEAKER_02]: To me, I don't know, I feel like I respect myself as an individual and will kind of do what I want when it comes to my own life.
18:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like a whole like Mark Cuban tangent from earlier, right?
18:48
[SPEAKER_02]: But like I think in terms of like, maybe I learned this from military school, my parents always emphasize filial piety.
18:57
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that like in order for anything to work, there has to be inherent sacrifice.
19:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a nothing free, you know?
19:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if it doesn't cost money, it costs you something.
19:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that like, because of that, I don't know.
19:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that's what I learned.
19:13
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot from Vietnamese culture is like, there are things that are bigger than yourself.
19:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So like sit down and shut the fuck up.
19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I'm not city effort on this.
19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
19:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
19:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's like the same thing in terms of like,
19:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, maybe I'm not nearly as like, like, I think my dad is like bonded to other Vietnamese immigrants who came to America, because I think that experience is so unique.
19:42
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do definitely am cognizant of like, when I'm looking around and I like see Vietnamese people, I'm like, oh, those people are Vietnamese, like, like, those people share a common experience that I have.
19:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, yeah, that's why I don't know if I fully agree with Han.
19:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's great.
20:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great perspective.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: When you guys go back to the demo tape and the submission and the beginning, how much Vietnameseness or Asian Americanness are you sprinkling in there?
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, beyond that question, what did you think of when you were putting that audition tape together?
20:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're just being ourselves.
20:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think we're trying to be like a Vietnamese character or anything.
20:27
[SPEAKER_02]: We're just trying to be ourselves.
20:30
[SPEAKER_02]: In all honesty, the audition tapes were supposed to be five minutes, and we spent most of the time answering the questions that we're necessary to get on the show in those five minutes.
20:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you want to be on the amazing race?
20:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think you'll be good TV?
20:44
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you think you'll do?
20:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't really feel like there was an opportunity to talk about our Vietnameseness.
20:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that was more reflected in when we got interviewed by a casting producer and stuff.
20:57
[SPEAKER_02]: That was when we talked about our own backgrounds.
21:02
[SPEAKER_02]: getting on to the show.
21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It felt like we were really just talking about like why we wanted to do and how we were going to do it and what we would look like if we were on it.
21:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm like, yeah, go ahead.
21:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just saying like overarching though, I do feel like we knew what we were representing and what value we wanted to add in terms of like the Asian American perspective, like in our audition tape, like we did talk about like
21:27
[SPEAKER_03]: For example, how like the differences in terms of like our parents making us do piano and like how I approach that task and how holding approach that task and how like those clashing perspectives like they both exist within the Asian American like Vietnamese second gen child like perspective, but they're both very different and we kind of wanted to show that.
21:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But like
21:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, a lot of the tape was just talking about why we wanted to do the show.
21:59
[SPEAKER_01]: When you guys, I'm going to skip way, we'll go through the actual show later.
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to just skip ahead way ahead.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: When you prepare for that audition tape and you're thinking about all the questions that the three questions that you just brought up, do you see the value of
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: now being on TV and being sort of entertaining the world and does that have any
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: thing to do with real life, selling, marketing, advertising, pitching to the big wide world, has anything to do with sports and a hold and you really into that.
22:42
[SPEAKER_01]: How does it affect the way you see the outside world looking at you now?
22:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I I don't know if I was trying to sell myself in any way.
22:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I would just play a game like Like I was playing a game that
23:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Many people watch, but people don't really get to play.
23:08
[SPEAKER_02]: To me, I was literally playing NBA basketball.
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: In the sense that you're doing this, most people who are watching this don't fully understand ball.
23:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're not worried about how people are watching you play the game.
23:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Your goal is to win the game.
23:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Your goal is to make more baskets than the other team, score more points than the other team.
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like, I, I was not ever thinking about like how people were gonna perceive me.
23:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It was more like, how do I score more points than the other team?
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, well, like, I would rather have spent, like, if I spend my mental energy thinking about how other people would perceive me, I think we would have gone home a lot.
23:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, very soon.
23:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, my focus was like, whoa, that's crazy.
23:54
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a camera in my face.
23:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But over time, you even get used to that.
23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, like part of the game is that there's always gonna be a camera in your face.
24:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Like,
24:01
[SPEAKER_02]: just play.
24:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like something I realized and like I agree like when we were on the show I don't think we were thinking about how we were selling ourselves we were just like how can we get to the next leg.
24:12
[SPEAKER_03]: But like in the aftermath and like observing I guess the feedback that we got in terms of our story and like what resonated and what didn't.
24:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like something I realized is like diversity really sells and I feel like
24:30
[SPEAKER_03]: odds are like, I don't know.
24:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think humans are that different from each other.
24:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't know, we vary in terms of life experiences, but like chances are your story will resonate to an audience.
24:41
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, there's there's hearts and there's pieces, not maybe all of it, but like, for example, on the show I talked a lot about like struggling with perfectionism and stuff like that.
24:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, there was this one
24:54
[SPEAKER_03]: comment that I got on my sub stack that like really resonated with me and this person commented that like we represented Asians that didn't get the A but still killed it.
25:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like that's something that like really embodied our story as a whole and I feel like
25:11
[SPEAKER_03]: just like in general when I thought about the entertainment industry and like what sold I think like I personally had this perception that like perfection sold and like what does that look like?
25:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Like for me for example growing up in like a white neighborhood and like that was what I was surrounded by and like looking at the color of my skin.
25:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I used to think that like white sold, you know what I mean?
25:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Not necessarily like Asian sold.
25:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like, I guess this show like subconsciously kind of like solidified my brain and like helped me realize the value in terms of just like diversity in general and like having confidence and like owning your perspective, like what the power of that can do.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
25:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Love that answer.
25:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Hold in, do you want to add to that?
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I have anything to add to that and all honesty.
26:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that answer, huh?
26:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let's talk about, did you have the prep and did you have to think about strategy and game theory, all of that prior to going in?
26:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think in general, and this really just checks out in terms of our relationship dynamic and how we grew up.
26:26
[SPEAKER_03]: We kind of knew that it was going to be difficult and hard and we idealized what the game would be like.
26:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And so granted, since we've never really worked together, we kind of just split up responsibilities and then decided to have full trust in the partner for those abilities.
26:45
[SPEAKER_03]: But the thing about the race is like,
26:47
[SPEAKER_03]: you have to work together.
26:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, if you don't work together, it's not gonna work.
26:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was the piece that we did not prepare.
26:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that we were learning on the fly during our entire time on the race.
26:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was why watching us was so interesting because it was like, are they gonna figure it out?
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that that was the probably one of the biggest pieces to winning is understanding how to mechanically work together.
27:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still simple, right?
27:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a simple thing.
27:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, had you thought about that and like, but how would you ever know it if you've never gone through that?
27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I also think like, even if you knew that, like nothing prepares you for how hard it is.
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, what made it hard, Holden?
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I've heard this from both of you now.
27:40
[SPEAKER_01]: What made this thing so hard?
27:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You're watching it on TV and then you're like, man, I could do that.
27:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm more competent than half these guys.
27:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you show up and everyone has said that and everyone is right.
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They are more competent than everybody thinks.
27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They're super competent.
27:59
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, they're really good.
28:01
[SPEAKER_02]: They're probably better than you.
28:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like they're probably better than we were.
28:05
[SPEAKER_02]: They were probably better.
28:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'd say we were a bottom five, like bottom three team.
28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: When we, when we, when we, when we were watching them, like in the first episode.
28:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
28:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we were somewhere in the bottom three.
28:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Because everybody was so good.
28:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's so smart.
28:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody knows what they're doing.
28:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So like their expectations have not been met.
28:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Second thing is, it's an immense amount of pressure.
28:34
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, like, I feel like it's the equivalent of like mom and dad fleeing war pressure, you know, like right over the dead bodies.
28:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I, I felt that.
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: If you feel that way.
28:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
28:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Why not?
28:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that like.
28:49
[SPEAKER_02]: like I do understand where like the life or death comes in because like I was telling people that like high describe it is like you're totally removed from the real outside world you don't have your phone you have contacts with like home you don't have any of that so like all you're thinking about is the race to the race becomes your life and like when you get eliminated it it it's like the thought of that is like
29:09
[SPEAKER_02]: your life ends because like you're not living that life anymore so it's like it is it feels like for death in a sense I don't know and then you have to have sustained focus for twelve hours like eight to twelve hours of just non-stop focus and then like things will obviously not go right um... but you're already so exhausted for locking in for six hours that how do you do it for another four or five you know like how do you do it for more time like how do you how do you manage when things are not going right like
29:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then on top of that, you're like, like something crazy to think about is like if you take the Bulgaria leg, like people were talking about like man, how did Nick and Mike not think about doing this or that or this or that because they were stuck with like trying to find the literal needle in the haystack.
29:54
[SPEAKER_02]: six hours before that we had gotten off of a flight from do like a layover where we slept in the airport in Turkey it had flown four hours landed at like seven in the morning and then immediately started racing like it's like things like that where it's like in the moment you don't think it really taxes your body but everything taxes your body like nothing come doesn't come without a cost
30:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, how I think about it is like, yeah, you're just always on, you're always focused.
30:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like playing a five hour tennis match.
30:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Like odds are whoever wins that match was just more mentally focused, more mentally sharp and just able to sustain their focus for a longer period of time.
30:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like what I tell people is you're sleep deprived, you're starved, you have to focus for twelve hours.
30:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And on top of that, you're working with a partner that you've never worked with before.
30:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And like all you've known your entire life is arguing, which is just the fact of the matter.
30:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And like now under this extreme pressure where every single decision feels like it's life or death, like to run right or to run left.
31:05
[SPEAKER_03]: to decide age to decide be like you have to do this all while working with someone that like you've never worked with before.
31:14
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just the hardest thing I've ever done.
31:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think a lot of this is really about luck turning left, turning right?
31:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like those decisions are flip of a coin.
31:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the teams just happen to be more lucky than you and the winner just is the luckiest.
31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: No, absolutely not.
31:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
31:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I think luck plays a big part in luck is a huge determiner in the level of stress, but you also make your own luck.
31:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we were lucky that we got the only not elimination leg in like five years.
31:49
[SPEAKER_03]: That was luck, but like I know it's crazy, but like
31:55
[SPEAKER_03]: all of the other decisions of escaping elimination.
31:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Like there were so many conversations that were happening behind closed doors of strategies of like trying to learn how to work together.
32:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we had our game plan solidified.
32:08
[SPEAKER_03]: It was pretty simple, but it got us pretty far to a certain point.
32:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And like we never banked on luck, but when luck came our way, we seized it.
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I have two questions.
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys were to do this for season thirty eight thirty nine, could you win it?
32:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Number one, that's the first question.
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you get another shot at the show, can you win it?
32:32
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is, what do you think is the most important skill set or strength that you need to work on to win a show like this?
32:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I think something that really played to our strengths that we had that saved us was adaptability.
32:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Like knowing how to think on our feet, not thinking more than one task ahead, because like I think that's what kills people is like the second they think three steps ahead, they're screwed.
33:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, I am echoing a little bit.
33:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
33:06
[SPEAKER_03]: We should stop for that.
33:07
[SPEAKER_03]: What was I saying?
33:11
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, so I think something that we had that saved us was adaptability.
33:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like this comes from like our parents straight up.
33:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they came to America with nothing.
33:22
[SPEAKER_03]: They learned how to make it work.
33:23
[SPEAKER_03]: They worked with what they had.
33:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they scraped their way to like the American dream.
33:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like something for us, like something that we would talk about is like we would be in the hotel room after like a leg really feeling digested.
33:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were like,
33:37
[SPEAKER_03]: of mom and dad freaking like made it through war like we can we can we can find a way to make it to like leg three or like leg four yeah um so i think that that's something that's like really really important because the second you think three steps ahead like you're done like your brain goes into overdrive and then your decision making just completely goes out the window and then you're done
34:00
[SPEAKER_03]: In terms of like to win, I believe that we could win.
34:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I really do.
34:05
[SPEAKER_03]: But like we personally have so much to work on in our relationship to get there.
34:10
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just the matter of the fact.
34:12
[SPEAKER_03]: We improved our relationship a lot on the race.
34:16
[SPEAKER_03]: There is so much work that we have to do and like that takes time That takes I think like alignment and I'm not saying that we could never get there, but like that's just like the gap that exists Holden Yeah, I think we could win like In fact, I like
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: and like pretty confident that we could like I was pretty confident that we could win last like one like season thirty seven um yeah I think concert everything I also think that something worth mentioning is like being the youngest team is not easy um like knowing like not knowing but I'd say like not having as much life experience does not help you
35:14
[SPEAKER_02]: at all.
35:16
[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of pressure management, in terms of adaptability.
35:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I think our adaptability was really good.
35:23
[SPEAKER_02]: That was probably our best strength.
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that in terms of risk management, in terms of teammate communication, being young, being twenty-one, and then being put in a really high pressure situation, there's so much to learn from that experience alone.
35:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Let alone like probably what like the next like if I were to do it again, I'd like like to wait a little bit longer than like season thirty eight or season thirty nine.
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um But I yeah, I mean like Also just single-handedly knowing what to train for and knowing what to expect that'll eliminate a huge hurdle like a huge hurdle like like I think that yeah like
36:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like I think that being young and like having the expectation of what to expect is always helpful.
36:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's why I think that like we definitely could, if you had another chance.
36:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think for now, like until that day comes and until like I'm told that it's gonna happen, I gotta work with what I have.
36:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I gotta work on all the things that like Han was talking about.
36:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm not really concerned about like doing another season of the race.
36:42
[SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the most difficult moments during that race?
36:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if we have the same ones holding.
36:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I have no idea.
36:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want the first?
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
36:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I want to go first?
36:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
36:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Or do you?
36:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You can go.
37:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Like...
37:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe my opinion differs from Han in this way.
37:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Doing it while I was doing it, I was like, man, I don't know if it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.
37:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I honestly don't know what the hardest thing I've ever done in my life is.
37:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Because whenever I do things that are hard, I'm like, okay, when I finish this, it will feel easier.
37:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But then when I'm done with it, I'm like, damn, I just finished that.
37:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my life is the interest CS class at Stanford, because I just felt like, so unhappy the whole time I was doing it.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But don't they say the hardest thing you've ever done is the hardest thing you've ever done, right?
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, how do we know what the hardest thing we've ever done is?
37:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
37:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know what the hardest thing I've ever done is.
37:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that like, in terms of difficult, like, I don't know if there were just difficult moments, but it's just like the moments that just sucked.
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, most painful.
38:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to hear the most painful moment.
38:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Like getting in a car accident on the finale sucks.
38:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
38:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that just sucks.
38:13
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like all the momentum that is built up is just gone.
38:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds pain.
38:19
[SPEAKER_02]: That just sucks.
38:20
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just like damn.
38:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you're playing all of this and then all of a sudden like that's yeah.
38:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're like shit man.
38:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, all momentum we had has to come to a halt.
38:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, it's not like, and now we have to figure out a completely different situation that affects the game.
38:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, also, like, it's probably, yeah, they that just sucked.
38:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You can make an argument for life, too.
38:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you see there's people in their sixties and seventies who work their ass off to like build whatever, you know, savings they got and they get sick with something and their whole savings is wiped out.
38:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Start from, you know, square one.
39:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is metaphorical of real life, you know, if you think about it.
39:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It absolutely.
39:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It pairs you for real life one day maybe, perhaps.
39:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
39:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that like staring down the barrel of elimination sucks.
39:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Being an hour and a half behind like an hour behind all the other teams to start the leg and like like that's yeah, that's a pretty terrible feeling.
39:33
[SPEAKER_02]: like I never felt like you're the thing is like I never felt like the challenges themselves were the most difficult things ever and it's not because they weren't hard it's because you yourself are in total control of whether or not you get to leave or not right like if you figure out how to do like if you forget figure out how to tie cheese you get a leave you know if you figure out how to put on the sumeress link up you get a leave
40:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But like I think so like I think that like things that are totally within your control You yeah, I don't think that those were the most difficult things because that that just meant that like okay Lot the fuck in trust yourself and let's get through it.
40:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right?
40:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that like in terms of like things that we couldn't control car accident
40:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you could make the argument that we could control being an hour behind everybody else.
40:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you're starting the leg, you can't really control that, right?
40:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that just sucks.
40:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I think those were like the hardest things.
40:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Things that you can't control and you're like, but then again, you can't feel sorry for yourself.
40:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You can just do what you can and like focus on what you can and then do each of those tasks with like the intention as if you can control it.
40:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And then over time, you can make your own luck that way.
40:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm just realizing how important blood is to me.
41:04
[SPEAKER_03]: When I reflect on why I did the race in the first place, because I was already traveling and doing my own big grand solo adventure.
41:13
[SPEAKER_03]: The travel aspect was something that wasn't the piece that sold me in terms of why I wanted to do this.
41:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, genuinely, the reason why I wanted to do this was because I wanted to spend time with Holden and I wanted to better our relationship.
41:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like when I think about the most difficult moments, like,
41:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I think during the race, we had both the highest of highs together and the lowest of lows together.
41:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Highest of highs in terms of holy crap, we accomplished that.
41:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd say the pinnacle of that was when we made it to the top three because we genuinely did not know if we had what it took to work together to get there.
41:51
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think like there's some you know arguments that were shown off camera where like I myself questioned whether or not like I guess the work that I felt like I was putting in towards like like growing the relationship and making it better and like wondering if it was getting better like I feel like those were the moments that were the most difficult to me like accompanied with the fact that
42:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have my mom to be a sounding board to talk about this with.
42:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I have literally just my journal, my brother, and like, I don't know, three hours until we have to be in panic mode again.
42:28
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
42:29
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like those are like the most difficult moments I think, too.
42:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And like Holden mentioned, like there was, you know, we had like before that leg when we spent all day in the Bulgarian sun trying to find a needle in the hay stack and getting you turned and like carrying a bunch of wood.
42:45
[SPEAKER_03]: like we had like a pretty big argument in the airport and like I'll take accountability part of it was my fault, you know, but like I don't know.
42:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say like that was like the most difficult part for me.
43:02
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think this experience is going to change your lives in the future?
43:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we've kind of said the race really did show us what we're capable of when we put our heads together.
43:17
[SPEAKER_03]: We weren't exaggerating.
43:19
[SPEAKER_03]: We didn't just say that for the camera.
43:21
[SPEAKER_03]: That was true.
43:21
[SPEAKER_03]: It's incredible that we got second out of like, fourteen teams and everyone was so freaking good, I've starting from zero.
43:30
[SPEAKER_03]: That is incredible.
43:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I think knowing that we have the confidence of where we could be in the back of our minds,
43:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I also think that like the race also brought out aspects of a relationship that like need work and like I think we have an idea of like what that is.
43:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like it's like, you know, double knife sword.
43:57
[SPEAKER_03]: There's like the good and there's like the bad.
43:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Holden.
44:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea.
44:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like, I think a beyond what Hans had at least like,
44:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean like objectively it is just a reality TV show.
44:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So like
44:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, unless I get my own Kardashian show, I don't know what, like, with her, I don't know what I physically get out of it.
44:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I think beyond what Han said, like, we just have things that we need to work on.
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also don't really think it is like a useful exercise at least for me to like, day dream and imagine what I will get five years from now from this experience.
44:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that like, we have actionable items, like, I'm gonna focus on those.
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's fair enough.
44:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Lastly, does this move the needle in your minds for Asian representation?
45:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it moved the needle as much of the enemies people watch it.
45:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't think that our experience alone is enough to change, like,
45:19
[SPEAKER_02]: an entire cultural perception of what risk is.
45:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Nor is it enough to change an entire cultural perception of what like Vietnamese people are like.
45:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that
45:37
[SPEAKER_02]: In order for it to have an actual impact, and honestly for us to do the race again, the enemies people have to watch it, and the enemies people have to decide what they want out of it, or what they decide out of it.
45:52
[SPEAKER_02]: like they they they have the active choice of like watching this and then seeing like hey at least young ones do like hey I have enough like time in my life that I can take a big risk I can take time off the school I can take time off work and I can go like like go for it right um but I think that's all it is is like it's never like I don't think we're the ones to break a glass ceiling
46:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we've made our mark on it, and we'll continue to make our mark on it.
46:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I was telling someone my ins and outs for my birthday the other day.
46:27
[SPEAKER_02]: In is continuing to try new things out is the amazing race in the sense that what I want to be thinking about every single day.
46:38
[SPEAKER_02]: That's our goal is to still break the glass ceiling, but I don't think that's what's going to break the glass ceiling.
46:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what actually breaks the glass ceiling is if we motivate more Vietnamese people to
46:46
[SPEAKER_02]: take a risk and and really put themselves out there and like two things that are scary.
46:54
[SPEAKER_01]: At your age, do you really think that there's a glass ceiling or bamboo ceiling?
47:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Like in what way?
47:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Career, money, advancement, all of it.
47:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you look into the environment?
47:10
[SPEAKER_01]: All the life that you've lived so far to America?
47:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that there is a ceiling for you?
47:16
[SPEAKER_02]: for me or for like everybody else.
47:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody Asian American.
47:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's some degree of a ceiling.
47:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there is a ceiling.
47:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that like maybe not in the sense that like other historically marginalized groups in America have.
47:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that there is like a certain degree of difficulty that is distinct to the Asian American experience that still persists.
47:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, I don't know if my mindset is conducive to like feeling that I have to conform to that ceiling, right?
47:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Like someone has to break past it.
47:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
47:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Like literally someone asked to.
47:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So like why can't it be me or her?
47:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
47:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I want to hear.
47:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I was listening to this, right?
47:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think that yeah, they're like, they're definitely is, but I don't know, like, to what degree I let it affect me.
48:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I know it exists, but I don't let it define me.
48:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Han.
48:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
48:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like something that I've really been thinking about in the past month is like I think especially coming to like our parents coming from Vietnam and like giving us this opportunity like my entire life I've always thought very big like I've always thought like you know
48:33
[SPEAKER_03]: If I'm going to make an impact like it's got to be earth shattering like for example, I'm the one that's curing the lack of Asian diversity on like your TV screen.
48:43
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
48:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such a huge massive problem that like, you know, it's not to take like hold in or me to fix that problem.
48:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that's something that I've really been thinking about over the past month is like,
48:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is something that we did on the race and what account to our success on the race is just like taking it in one step at a time, like taking one task at a time, taking it one leg at a time.
49:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Until you reach that final leg, then you think about like shattering, you know, the glass ceiling that holding was talking about.
49:15
[SPEAKER_03]: But I feel like
49:18
[SPEAKER_03]: There's been, like, comments that I've read through where people have talked about, like, how our story has resonated with them.
49:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, when we went to the Giants game and we did an appearance, like, there was, like, a mother and she wasn't even Asian.
49:30
[SPEAKER_03]: She came to us and, like, start crying and was like, I just, like, hope that my kids can, like, learn how to work together, like, like, the way that I saw you two work together on the amazing race.
49:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like,
49:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that, like, if we're thinking about the grand, did we make a big impact in terms of Asian Americans and the entertainment industry?
49:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it's more so, like, like, holding sets.
49:52
[SPEAKER_03]: We left our mark, but like, there's so much more work to be done.
49:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, I don't see it as like a one-and-done situation.
50:00
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like a slow moving journey that, like, we all need to work towards.
50:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, part of that is like getting more Vietnamese people, for example, to watch the amazing race when we were on it and stuff like that.
50:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
50:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that just makes it feel less daunting when I frame it that way.
50:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed having two young articulate Vietnamese Americans on the show today.
50:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you both for reaching out and this turned out incredibly beautiful for me as somebody who is always looking to the youth
50:37
[SPEAKER_01]: of the Vietnamese American diaspora to hear what they're thinking about their own representation and how they feel about themselves.
50:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And this sort of projects back to Vietnam, a lot of young people watch it in Vietnam as well, to get a sense of who we are.
50:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think
50:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I look forward to what you both accomplish in the far future in the near future.
51:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you both have another show that you're on or whatever project, I would love to have you both back on to talk about your future endeavors.
51:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's just one of you, it's fine.
51:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's both, if you've tuned teamed up,
51:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That's cool too.
51:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because we want to see this sort of ongoing these fibers of our community keep reaching new heights and some very interested in that.
51:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Kenneth.
51:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I also do want to plug my sub stack because that is something that I am trying to be consistent about and like I think something that just like this whole journey has taught me is like just like having the confidence to chase the creative endeavors like if you want to and that's mine right now.
51:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So check out my sub stack.
51:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a fun being win.
51:52
[SPEAKER_01]: H and B N G E Y E N correct.
51:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
51:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And I talk about just like life and like through the lens of like eldest daughter second gen.
52:02
[SPEAKER_03]: So first, yeah, second.
52:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Very cool.
52:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Hold in any closing shameless plugs.
52:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh no, you can follow me on Instagram so I can get verified at wholeHOLE dot DEN.
52:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, I don't know.
52:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing to plug for myself.
52:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Just things I'm working on in silence, like a Prius.
52:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you both for coming on today.
52:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Dan.
52:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having us, Canada.
52:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
52:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie and Crystal Tran.
52:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at the Vietnamese podcast.