Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 271. The Inspiring Refrigeration Journey of Robert Ochs

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Episode 271. The Inspiring Refrigeration Journey of Robert Ochs · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

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  Speaker 2: Today, we have a fantastic guest, Robert Oakes.
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  Speaker 2: Today, we have a fantastic guest, Robert Oakes.
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  Robert's been in the industry for decades, started out in rack refrigeration and just continuous on in the refrigeration industry, travels the world, helping people, technicians, manufacturers, and users on refrigeration. And this guy is a wealth of knowledge. He knows supermarket refrigeration inside and out.
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  He knows compressors inside and out. I love the conversation. We're going to dive in today into his journey on where he started out as a technician, going to tech school, learning and growing. Throughout the industry, working in the manufacturing side of the business, working as a technician, doing construction, just like a lot of you listening that the world of refrigeration there's an endless amount of possibilities.
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  Trevor: So I'd love to hear a little bit about your story Robert, because, you know, you started out, you know, in the early days of supermarket refrigeration, because there was really nothing, there was no supermarket before that.
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  Trevor: So I'd love to hear a little bit about your story Robert, because, you know, you started out, you know, in the early days of supermarket refrigeration, because there was really nothing, there was no supermarket before that.
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  It was like all condensing units. I heard, you know what I mean? Like, it was really in the pioneering stage of a rack refrigeration. I'd love to dive into that.
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  Robert: Sure. Absolutely. So yeah, when I was a young man, I came from the California region. My dad was construction manager at Tyler. So that kind of what, what led me in the trade.
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  And a lot of the markets back then some don't exist today. The Lucky's Ralph's, you know, a lot of those Ralph giants, Vons pavilions. So there was the big box store pre pre Costco's. And from that point at Tyler, back then I went to union local 250 just like any other kid, right? So I needed trade school and I thought trade school for me, which is what I tell at the NASRC events was really great because as a young man, Going to trade school.
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  I really couldn't afford college, but when every class I finished, I got a dollar 25 raise in the union. So I knew I was guaranteed two 50 a year. At that point, it's probably more nowadays. I probably did it myself. When I was
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  I really couldn't afford college, but when every class I finished, I got a dollar 25 raise in the union. So I knew I was guaranteed two 50 a year. At that point, it's probably more nowadays. I probably did it myself. When I was Trevor: doing it, it was 5 every time. Every level up from 4 to 5. And that was like 15, 20 years ago.
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  But it all depends on where you're at in the world. Because I talk about, you know, we can make six figures, no problem here in North America. No problem as a refrigeration technician. But other parts of the world, they're not paying, they don't pay like that. Yeah, so that's what people tell me. But the top technicians do, even in other parts of the world.
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  Because when you're solving a problem and you know, there's 2 million, a product on the line, whoever's fixing that stuff is getting paid a
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  Robert: hundred percent, a hundred percent. Absolutely. So yeah, it was good. I went to that trade school. I turned out as a young man, 24 years old, I was a A journeyman and I mostly had construction experience and then be being the boss's son.
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  I would get all the rack experience. So at Tyler, when carrier owned Tyler at that point, I was building the racks and the cases in Southern California, not all cases were built, but we had produce cases. So we learned woodworking, you know, all types of welding, wiring the racks from scratch, right? The control circuits, as you know.
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  I would get all the rack experience. So at Tyler, when carrier owned Tyler at that point, I was building the racks and the cases in Southern California, not all cases were built, but we had produce cases. So we learned woodworking, you know, all types of welding, wiring the racks from scratch, right? The control circuits, as you know.
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  So we, I painted all those, I prepped compressors back in the day. We'd have to prep all the Copeland's before they went on the bench with all the brass tees, right. And all those things, right. It was a, they were, it was a step program, if you will. Right. So my, my construction portion of learning all the ins and outs of manufacturing equipment led me to service.
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  Did service with at that time it was called chemo modes. People know it as source or cool sis today. It was just pioneering. It was people modes originally owned by Tormont industries. And so I did, I got, I was really OCD with my service. I wanted everything, you know, really perfect. So I did mostly a lot of the DECA contracts, right?
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  So you have military commissaries and people forget that a commissary is a supermarket, right? And you have to do everything.
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  Speaker: Yeah, Robert: you have to, to your point, we had like light bulbs that had to be pink for the meat. Right. We had special color light bulbs for produce. I don't even know if they do all that today with LEDs.
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  Right. It was pioneering back then. Right. And so we did a lot of that, a lot of overnight remodels and so for my construction experience, but me to service, I did service for quite some time. And they split it up a lot. They would call, like you said, with condensing units, they would split it up between convenience stores and parallel system, which is they would call low temp, right?
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  Right. It was pioneering back then. Right. And so we did a lot of that, a lot of overnight remodels and so for my construction experience, but me to service, I did service for quite some time. And they split it up a lot. They would call, like you said, with condensing units, they would split it up between convenience stores and parallel system, which is they would call low temp, right?
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  It was kind of split like that on the West coast. I ran both sides of the cruise just because when you get to low temp, you're kind of service area service manager for the condensing unit guys, the apprentices, if you will, that are working on single systems, right? For the weekend calls. And that led me to a transition of moving to a family owned business.
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  You would probably know it as today called seer to seer to wasn't seer to then it used to be deal equipment in Arizona and the family sold the carrier. So in 2005, I did a transfer with Brad person who owns seer to write Rusty and all those guys. And so I came over to the family business as a carrier Tyler employee.
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  So I transfer in business, right? And I did my 1st Costco. That was the 1st Costco in Arizona that anybody has ever done. It was Costco 738 and it was a bit of a struggle.
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  So I transfer in business, right? And I did my 1st Costco. That was the 1st Costco in Arizona that anybody has ever done. It was Costco 738 and it was a bit of a struggle.
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  Trevor: Yeah, I bet. Yeah,
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  Robert: it was a Tyler's. I hope this is okay, but it was Tyler's, you know, you have different types of defrost a different type of terminology as in components and system design.
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  And so I would say, you know, high level. It was a Tyler copy of a husband super plus rack. Right? So it had cool gas instead of latent gas because they use different types of terminologies for their products. Right? But ultimately it was a cool gas defrost system at the top of the receiver with a liquid hold back valve.
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  Right? Mhm. Kind of old school and so I got that store up and running. That was the first one here in Arizona and they were, you know, kind of behind. Costco was stressed. How's this new contractor going to work out and was able to successfully get that open on time. There are 110 day schedules and crazy from ground up.
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  Trevor: I know it's, it's, it's even faster I think now because we just got one in my town and in like six or seven weeks, you know, after the ground was cleared, it's just like, And it's like, I mean, mad man going through there trying to get this done for them and everybody who ever been to Costco, that's big.
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  Trevor: I know it's, it's, it's even faster I think now because we just got one in my town and in like six or seven weeks, you know, after the ground was cleared, it's just like, And it's like, I mean, mad man going through there trying to get this done for them and everybody who ever been to Costco, that's big.
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  Everything's big in there.
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  Robert: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
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  Trevor: They do it Robert: right. That led me to when I got that store done. The boss said, you know, in two weeks, you know, the short of the story of all that was I came back in the office and I was sitting in the office, right. Just new to the team here in Arizona. And they said, what are you doing here?
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  Why are you not on the job site? And I said, well, it's done. And they're like, there's no way it could be done. And so we took a ride up there and. They found that it was done. We got our health permit ready for opening and the boss Brad person at that point, you know, was the GM and for carrier and said how do you know so much, right?
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  Talk, I'll be in the office. I said, well, I told you, I went to union school. I was trained and in Arizona, it's a right to work state. So that's what we're comparing it to where you don't have to be qualified to be in refrigeration or electrical or plumbing. You could be an auto mechanic in Arizona. So you got to be very careful on what state, just as you're pointing out what the qualification is of who you're hiring, right?
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  Talk, I'll be in the office. I said, well, I told you, I went to union school. I was trained and in Arizona, it's a right to work state. So that's what we're comparing it to where you don't have to be qualified to be in refrigeration or electrical or plumbing. You could be an auto mechanic in Arizona. So you got to be very careful on what state, just as you're pointing out what the qualification is of who you're hiring, right?
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  Trevor: Yeah, Robert: and I didn't know that coming that it was a right to work state. So I'm working with 160 technicians that didn't come from refrigeration background like myself. Right? And so Brad
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  Trevor: dive into that even a little bit more because we were chatting before your dad is the guy who started Tyler refrigeration.
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  Is that correct? Did I hear you correctly in California? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's because I worked on Tyler racks here in Canada, right? We have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we had them here, you know, so I've, I've seen them before out there and there's, there's still, there's still some of them around for sure.
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  You know what I mean? A hundred percent, you know, so, but that's pretty cool. How was that? That's what led you into this trade. How did you ever ask him how he got into refrigeration? You know, was it
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  Robert: I think at that point in their time So they so it was it was five guys and most of them are still around they're young kids Now you've probably come across so one of them at classic refrigeration Is kevin watemura, so it would have been his father rodney.
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  Watemura armand flores Dave Schmidt, a lot of these guys were still around Ron Coburn. All these guys left Hussman. So Hussman was the big brand in 1971. And these five journeymen were the leaders of refrigeration at that point. And they all got together as a team and said, like, Let's go open Tyler and compete.
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  Watemura armand flores Dave Schmidt, a lot of these guys were still around Ron Coburn. All these guys left Hussman. So Hussman was the big brand in 1971. And these five journeymen were the leaders of refrigeration at that point. And they all got together as a team and said, like, Let's go open Tyler and compete.
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  And actually some of my clients today I have that have done the same prime refrigeration was all husband and people and left corporate and open prime today. Right? So a lot of guys get the knowledge from the corporate side of the business and they leave and you got five of the major experts. And from there on out.
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  Trevor: Yeah, that's crazy because that's, it started somewhere. So a husband is one of the. The OGs of training the North America.
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  Robert: Yeah. A hundred percent.
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  Trevor: That's good. That's that's history, man. That's stuff that I didn't even know. I love that stuff. Okay. So then they split off, they start to, they did Tyler. Then, then you got into it.
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  Because your family, right. And this is what I talked to so many technicians, like me and my dad and my uncle, like me, I'm first gen. Like I didn't know refrigeration before this. I, I, I must've tripped and hit a rock and hit my head and all of a sudden refrigeration is there. You know what I mean? But it worked out.
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  Because your family, right. And this is what I talked to so many technicians, like me and my dad and my uncle, like me, I'm first gen. Like I didn't know refrigeration before this. I, I, I must've tripped and hit a rock and hit my head and all of a sudden refrigeration is there. You know what I mean? But it worked out.
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  I love it. I love refrigeration, but I'm, I'm a lucky one. Most of the people in the trade is because they know someone, and this is one of the. Tough things in our industry, right? Is like, how do we get people that don't know anything about refrigeration to get in? Cause I, I love it today. That's why we're having a conversation here on the podcast, talking about, you know,
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  Robert: I love it.
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  I love it because it led me to a multitude of things. I would have never thought as a mechanic, right. And let's just label it. I was just a mechanic that here I am. After 2005, I become system engineer for Carrier for 22 years and I develop Costco, Walmart, Target. So all the mechanical RS schedules in all those brands, you'll see the same cell phone number and the same Rob Oaks on those plans in every motor room.
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  So I learned all these technicians I know from all over the world now, simply from the RS schedules, right? And contractors. And I would have never guessed that going to school, turning wrenches, Would have led me to an engineering career and then eventually where i'm at today as a regional sales manager, right for carrier
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  So I learned all these technicians I know from all over the world now, simply from the RS schedules, right? And contractors. And I would have never guessed that going to school, turning wrenches, Would have led me to an engineering career and then eventually where i'm at today as a regional sales manager, right for carrier
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  Trevor: Yeah, you would
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  Robert: Know connecting the dots, right?
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  Trevor: Yeah No, exactly. And this is what I love we we first met at a industry event probably a year ago now over a year ago Now maybe a little longer and then you were just telling me about the trips that you take like you travel the world You go to asia. You're going to europe. You're all over the place with With this job.
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  And this is what refrigeration can do for you.
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  Robert: A hundred percent.
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  Speaker 3: I want to take a minute to talk about what refrigeration mentor training is all about. We are all about helping contractors increase profit. We help end users reduce bottom line costs and really helping technicians make more money. And our mission is to empower those contractors and technicians by equipping them with the really the skills that they need and the knowledge that they need for success.
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  And what we do is we help contractors By building customized training packages that work for their technicians, that work for their busy schedule to advance their skills in gauging them in continuing education and testing them. All these programs that we really do is really by the hands on approach, getting them to go out there and do.
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  And what we do is we help contractors By building customized training packages that work for their technicians, that work for their busy schedule to advance their skills in gauging them in continuing education and testing them. All these programs that we really do is really by the hands on approach, getting them to go out there and do.
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  The field work. So they get tangible results and we are committed to getting you the results you're looking for. All our programs are online drip model. So I can meet with technicians or the refrigeration professional. I can coach them. I can mentor them and our team of professional really want to take your business to the next level.
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  So if you're a service manager, business owner or technician, reach out, head to refrigerationmentor. com or check out in the show notes, there's a book a call link and it doesn't matter where you're at in the world, we can help develop a program that's going to help you and your business be more profitable in the commercial refrigeration and aid vac industry.
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  Now let's get to the conversation goal.
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  Trevor: So, okay. So back in 2005, you did that, that switch over. So you were working there, you did the first Costco and they're like, wow, I mean, you know, refrigeration, how can we help? What was the next steps like for your journey?
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  Trevor: So, okay. So back in 2005, you did that, that switch over. So you were working there, you did the first Costco and they're like, wow, I mean, you know, refrigeration, how can we help? What was the next steps like for your journey?
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  Robert: From that point after opening that store, the boss had asked me, he says, Hey, how do you know so much in union school? When I went, you had to have prerequisites. Thermodynamics, right? Geometry, algebra. So I knew math. I knew thermodynamic physics. That led me to, you know, telling him, look, I have, you know, a pretty good background in school prior.
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  He said, you want to become my engineer. And so that's how I became the engineer for Costco for 22 years, knowing Nick Wendell and Jay Schick, who's, you know, all these people, right? Jay, actually way before Jay, even, but at that point carrier had a good brand too, right? So carry had EMS systems, micro thermal.
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  Was owned by carrier at that point, right? We had Tyler refrigeration, which we had all the cases. We had carrier air conditioning. So the very first carrier Costco that was turnkey property was Rancho Cucamonga. So at that point we went to corporate America to national account business I got sucked into national account as the engineer, right?
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  Was owned by carrier at that point, right? We had Tyler refrigeration, which we had all the cases. We had carrier air conditioning. So the very first carrier Costco that was turnkey property was Rancho Cucamonga. So at that point we went to corporate America to national account business I got sucked into national account as the engineer, right?
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  Speaker: And they
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  Robert: said, Right. What are the best, best pieces out there? Kind of like what you do. You go to Chilventa, you're looking around, Hey, how does this work? This is a great controller. So National Account Business says, what is the best systems out there? And so we built the very first carrier branded property from, you know, roof to floor.
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  And I was extremely successful with that brand, and that's what continued to grow the carrier business through the refrigeration market. And unfortunately, through corporate acquisitions to catch back up where we're at today, carrier sold Tyler refrigeration to Hill Phoenix, right? So, he'll Phoenix. I worked at Hill Phoenix for about 1 year.
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  And knowing the inside the system engineering side and knowing the field side, I just felt that there was a little bit of a disconnect. Is where I'll, you know, as far as I'll take that. And so I didn't knowing that the national account brands, you know, the big players in our field know who we are.
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  They've trusted me. I've never did a bad design. I never had a warranty. I've never warrantied a compressor. Right. So, and I'm at Carlisle today, but I used to sell Bitzer locally. I sold Bitzer Copeland. Right. So when you're on the contractor side, you get to use your own money. So I got very familiar like you with all of the componentry and what I could do to be a design builder.
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  They've trusted me. I've never did a bad design. I never had a warranty. I've never warrantied a compressor. Right. So, and I'm at Carlisle today, but I used to sell Bitzer locally. I sold Bitzer Copeland. Right. So when you're on the contractor side, you get to use your own money. So I got very familiar like you with all of the componentry and what I could do to be a design builder.
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  Right. And carrier after the acquisition to help Phoenix about a year later. Carrier said, would you consider coming back and taking a different type of role? Would you look at just compressors? And I was good at applying everybody's compressors, of course, but I didn't go to school for compression engineering.
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  I'm not a material compatibility engineer, right? I know copper pipes and valves and these types of things, right? And I said, okay I'll look at it. So they flew me back to the first time in my life in 2012 to Carrier campus in New York. I'd never been all these years and Carrier didn't even know it existed.
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  Speaker: Yeah.
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  Robert: I went back and I talked to some of the, what I considered the greatest engineers at the time, kind of like what I, the hall of fame of baseball, right. Or basketball, the Mike Jordans of Scotty Bibbins. So I'm, I'm sitting there in this conference room with 12 guys and I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, these guys were the guys answering my questions, right.
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  Robert: I went back and I talked to some of the, what I considered the greatest engineers at the time, kind of like what I, the hall of fame of baseball, right. Or basketball, the Mike Jordans of Scotty Bibbins. So I'm, I'm sitting there in this conference room with 12 guys and I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, these guys were the guys answering my questions, right.
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  When I was 19 and 20 on email, I'm like, Oh, I was in awe. So when I'm sitting around rubbing elbows and he's the hall of fame of engineers is asking me to join their team. I was like, Okay, how could I not learn from the best of the best, right? And so I thought, what an opportunity to try to jump over the fence from the contractor side to manufacturing on the corporate side.
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  So I made the jump. They gave me a lot of training where I was weak. For example, I was weak on screw machines, right? Definitely wasn't my expertise. And I got training on screws. We have different types. And from that, they said, all right. We're going to give you the West Coast only just the West Coast, but as, you know, there's not too many on the West Coast of manufacturer.
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  It's a bit more expensive than the East Coast and. Reeling back to our story of refrigeration, right? The are part of what we do. Is my, my foundation and background of being service and construction. They started sending me going to the global travel that you're talking about. They started sending me to job sites.
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  It's a bit more expensive than the East Coast and. Reeling back to our story of refrigeration, right? The are part of what we do. Is my, my foundation and background of being service and construction. They started sending me going to the global travel that you're talking about. They started sending me to job sites.
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  They didn't have people that had service background. And so I went to ships up in Seattle, right. That were coming back from Alaska that have process refrigeration on it. I was doing top secret, naval bombing ships for radar out of Oregon, out of vigor. Right. I have presidential clearance. I did offshore oil rigs out of Texas and Beaumont semiconductor, which is why I do Asia.
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  I'm the only us provider that goes into Asia for your Apple cell phones, your Samsung televisions. They all have coatings on glasses, televisions. Right. So it started leading me into they're like, what is this guy? And I'm like, I just, I'm a refrigeration guy and I started applying the carrier Compression technologies, right to OEMs.
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  I think one of the newest ones you're probably familiar with is with my customer pro refrigeration. I'm doing a CO2 pro green. I just did with him with 250 horse with Jim. Right? So it's led me just having that refrigeration background and speaking the language. Led me to this multitude of now becoming a global salesman.
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  I think one of the newest ones you're probably familiar with is with my customer pro refrigeration. I'm doing a CO2 pro green. I just did with him with 250 horse with Jim. Right? So it's led me just having that refrigeration background and speaking the language. Led me to this multitude of now becoming a global salesman.
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  They're like, well, if it's hard and there's even newer technology that people don't speak about, like I have a, a client I'm I'm sure you might be familiar with doing an ORC, the organic Rankin cycle. So that's typically a European technology. I have it being built here in Texas. That's about as high as I could tell you, but the interesting part of what we're designing and building for the U S is to recover that heat is we were taught in our trade.
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  Screw machines can't run backwards. And in this case, we're actually taking one of our twin screws and we're running it backwards to create a generator. And the generational put power power back to the feet of the property. Right? So we have a lot of bleeding edge technologies that are coming up simply because of compression.
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  Trevor: Yeah. And, and this is, this all led to you just starting in the trade, starting in the trade, busting your butt. And it wasn't easy to you. We're talking about it right now. And we're here having a conversation. This wasn't easy going on those. No, I did the same thing out for three months straight on a job site every night from nine o'clock at night to nine o'clock in the morning, you know, 12, 12 hour days, seven days a week for a month.
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  Trevor: Yeah. And, and this is, this all led to you just starting in the trade, starting in the trade, busting your butt. And it wasn't easy to you. We're talking about it right now. And we're here having a conversation. This wasn't easy going on those. No, I did the same thing out for three months straight on a job site every night from nine o'clock at night to nine o'clock in the morning, you know, 12, 12 hour days, seven days a week for a month.
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  I've done it. You know what I mean? So you've been there. So it wasn't like it easy, but you took the opportunities when they came to you and you applied yourself and you asked the question. This is what I keep talking about to all the technicians that come in our training programs. Like you gotta ask the question, you gotta be a bit more outgoing.
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  You know what I mean? If you're not, You got, the biggest thing is just really ask the question at the end of the day, don't wait to ask the question until the problem is real bad. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like anything when a service call, like if, if you're longer than 45 minutes on a site, tell anyone you're longer than 45 minutes and you don't have an idea what's going on.
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  You got to make a phone call.
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  Robert: Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's interesting you say that. So to coin what you're saying, I try to give back like that. And I say, look, in this trade, I feel what you put into yourself is what you get out. So the more you and I've put in, right, the more learning we got from the, our, our mentors, right.
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  Robert: Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's interesting you say that. So to coin what you're saying, I try to give back like that. And I say, look, in this trade, I feel what you put into yourself is what you get out. So the more you and I've put in, right, the more learning we got from the, our, our mentors, right.
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  Our, our suppliers, right. And my foreman would always say that before you call Sporlin, I'll put it up and there's a paper inside, read the book, right? How does the, how does the EPR work? How does the aura work? The sort work? I had to read it before I asked the question. Right. Yeah.
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  Trevor: Exactly. And sometimes like for me, I, it's not like I just read something once I read it once and I read it twice and I read three times.
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  I still don't understand. I write it down and then, okay. I started to get it then, then read it again. Okay. I kind of get it. Okay. Let's make a phone call and let's have a conversation with someone who knows it inside out. And then like, it was like, oh, that makes so much sense. I might've just missed this or that.
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  And then it just, but it takes time. You know, 100%.
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  Robert: I remember one of the guys told me before, which I've always remembered today that helped me, you know, with confidence in refrigeration, because sometimes it's overwhelming when you go into these machine rooms and you don't know. And my foreman at the time was just a really wise guy and he said, Robbie, listen.
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  Robert: I remember one of the guys told me before, which I've always remembered today that helped me, you know, with confidence in refrigeration, because sometimes it's overwhelming when you go into these machine rooms and you don't know. And my foreman at the time was just a really wise guy and he said, Robbie, listen. You don't have to know everything. You just have to know where to find the answer. So I think just being resourceful in this trade, I know a Copeland guy, Tim Davis, right? I know a Sporland guy. So as you start to network in this trade, right, and make those connections, I have connections, like you said, globally.
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  Now, it doesn't matter what country I go to Malaysia, Singapore, Korea, Shanghai, I can go anywhere and have a connection to say, okay, How's this component work? I'm not understanding the system, right? I've been flown everywhere in the world now solve problems that are unsolvable, right? I've actually even been an arbitrator sometimes, right?
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  On big chiller projects, right? I've been an arbitrator because there's types of different types of chiller projects, right?
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  Trevor: Yeah. And that, and that's the thing, anyone who's listening on the podcast right now and you might just starting out, you might be a first year, you might be a new journeyman. The possibilities are endless.
• 0:21
  You can do all this stuff. We're having a conversation here, but everything that Robert has done is like, this is something you can work towards. You know, because there's so many companies out there that are looking for good refrigeration technician. And there's not many globally, you know, there's, you know, we're a small trade.
• 0:22
  You can do all this stuff. We're having a conversation here, but everything that Robert has done is like, this is something you can work towards. You know, because there's so many companies out there that are looking for good refrigeration technician. And there's not many globally, you know, there's, you know, we're a small trade.
• 0:22
  I think in refrigeration, probably the, I don't know the numbers, but maybe a million people across the globe that's in refrigeration and the top, like the top tier, there's probably, you know, Maybe a thousand, a couple of thousand, you know what I mean? Like that could go any refrigeration problem from a screw pack, industrial to a, you know, a commercial to a light.
• 0:22
  You know what I mean? Cause it just takes a lot, a lot of time and and dedication. Like you, you put it.
• 0:22
  Robert: Absolutely. And I think Trevor, that brings up a good point because I just was doing, I was a trainer for my first time at the NASRC event, and I, And one of the industries we didn't talk about, right?
• 0:22
  Because everybody has their passion in refrigeration. One of the passions that got overlooked was right. The new naturals of CO2, but we have CO2 a carrier with truck trailer. So the food has to get to the store. That's a specific refrigeration guy. That is an expert in truck trailer. And when I brought in a two stage CO2 compressor to train, train, everybody used to having two compressors and booster compressors.
• 0:23
  Because everybody has their passion in refrigeration. One of the passions that got overlooked was right. The new naturals of CO2, but we have CO2 a carrier with truck trailer. So the food has to get to the store. That's a specific refrigeration guy. That is an expert in truck trailer. And when I brought in a two stage CO2 compressor to train, train, everybody used to having two compressors and booster compressors.
• 0:23
  And I have a single compressor that in one stroke is two stage, right? And they couldn't wrap their head and they were asking those questions. Well, where would we see this? Well, truck trailer, right? The food comes from the ocean or the farmer, right? I've got it refrigerated at the dairy and right from that point, it's got to be in the truck trailer.
• 0:23
  And then it's got to go to the land based store where it's being. So there's a lot of passion on what is, what is, if you like the truck trailer. And that's your industry. Like you said, refrigeration, they need tons of people across the world because the foods travels, right? Flowers travel at a certain temp, right?
• 0:23
  Everything is being trucked to those locations. It's not just a stationary land store by ship by oil drilling, right? It's all over everywhere. We go. We have some type of air conditioning and refrigeration hotels, right?
• 0:23
  Trevor: Yeah, a hundred percent. I remember when I started learning about CO2 back in 2015 with Andre Pattenhout.
• 0:24
  Trevor: Yeah, a hundred percent. I remember when I started learning about CO2 back in 2015 with Andre Pattenhout.
• 0:24
  And so I started doing research and Carrier popped up and it was Carrier shipping containers.
• 0:24
  Speaker: Yes. Trevor: Yeah. So that's, you know what I mean? And then that was CO2 Carrier shipping container. Correct. You know what I mean? So like, it's, and it's not new. I remember seeing, I was doing a ton of research and trying to learn about it.
• 0:24
  And it's crazy how a big carrier is on in the CO2 game. Like they're not, you know, here in North America, maybe it's discreet, but they're not as big as globally. You know what I mean? Because when you look outside, like they have owned so many companies and I know they just spun them off the commercial refrigeration side, but they have owned so many different commercial refrigeration.
• 0:24
  A lot of people that carry your air conditioning. Residential or like commercial, but they're, they're massive in the refrigeration side, massive
• 0:24
  Robert: 22, 000 CO2. Gary Fuller has out there with that system out of profile.
• 0:24
  Trevor: Yeah. Yeah. And very,
• 0:24
  Robert: very popular.
• 0:24
  Trevor: That was another company that I didn't even know carry your own.
• 0:24
  So I was reading profile profile manuals learning about when I first started learning about CO2. And then you see it, then I see it's owned by carrier. I'm like, Again, once again. So, so this, this is really cool. Like your journey has been super amazing. And NACRC, you were there last week, a few weeks ago.
• 0:25
  So I was reading profile profile manuals learning about when I first started learning about CO2. And then you see it, then I see it's owned by carrier. I'm like, Again, once again. So, so this, this is really cool. Like your journey has been super amazing. And NACRC, you were there last week, a few weeks ago.
• 0:25
  How was that? So you did a training there. I'd love to hear, but I see the pictures you were doing a compressor tear down. I think it was
• 0:25
  Robert: yeah. Compressor tear down. So that was our, our brand new transcritical CO2. It was my first time. Bringing it to the students, right? A different type of the industry, right?
• 0:25
  So again, that was a truck trailer unit that we have available. And I just saw a lot of the, what I see when I go to training and I don't want the guys to be open minded as they go to any type of training from anybody. Remember it's a little bit geared towards that. So when I did the training, I wanted to bring it back.
• 0:25
  To what are, like you said today, what is the first year technician going to learn? What is a fifth year technician? So I didn't use so much of a carrier background. What I used was the compressor background, right? And I heard a lot of the guys in their builds and CO2s, a lot of the system engineers and companies that were there pushing their type of system design.
• 0:26
  To what are, like you said today, what is the first year technician going to learn? What is a fifth year technician? So I didn't use so much of a carrier background. What I used was the compressor background, right? And I heard a lot of the guys in their builds and CO2s, a lot of the system engineers and companies that were there pushing their type of system design.
• 0:26
  All you hear is the compressor guy. The compressor guy and what I was leading to when I did my training, I said, you know, compressor is not a compressor. A valve is not a valve. And it was getting so misconstrued by the time my very first class, I had 42 students and I was at the end of the hall. I didn't even think I was going to have like five.
• 0:26
  Right. And I started talking about before we tear down the compressor, can anybody in the class tell me what RGT is? Nobody had an answer. And I said, do you know what an RGT of compressor design is? And I said, it's very similar to evaporator design and CO2 or any of it. Doesn't matter what brand we want to talk about, but those, those are work that when you develop those in a lab, they're at 55 relative humidity and 75 degree temperature, right?
• 0:26
  That's how they're designed for those conditions, but you might not see that environmental conditions. When I brought up RGT of the compressor, nobody even knew that it meant return to gas temperature. And then I'm like, do you, do you know compression standpoint guys? We design them at 65. So I'm telling you in advance, right?
• 0:27
  That's how they're designed for those conditions, but you might not see that environmental conditions. When I brought up RGT of the compressor, nobody even knew that it meant return to gas temperature. And then I'm like, do you, do you know compression standpoint guys? We design them at 65. So I'm telling you in advance, right?
• 0:27
  Before you go to the controller, like you said, before you spend 30 minutes there, did you check your compressor superheat? How many guys in this room knew compressor superheat? Not a single person in six classes knew what compressor superheat was. They were only taught evaporator superheat. I'm like, wait a minute.
• 0:27
  Right. Yeah. You get it right. Work
• 0:27
  Trevor: caprice compressor. That's the thing like, 'cause I remember when I started at Copeland too. 'cause you work, you know, you work with a compressor manufacturer and Yeah. And I'm like, I thought I knew compressors, , but when I went to the gurus, I'm like, there was poor customers that I worked on for 10 years, you know?
• 0:27
  Yeah. Poor compressors because. I just wasn't shown. And this is our job now is to share this with everyone. But the, and it's the terminology, cause now you talk with people globally, same with here. So people in Australia or the UK or wherever they got different terminologies as well. So I'm trying to myself personally is trying to open that up.
• 0:27
  You know what I mean? The compressor is the one to take, always take the brunt of the force. It's the most expensive component and the one that gets beat up the most. So that's the one you should be figuring out how to take care of it. For me, it doesn't matter the brand, the manufacturer for me. It's like, if you're out in the field and you're stuck, you got to make sure you protect that compressor because if that goes down, refrigeration is done.
• 0:28
  You know what I mean? The compressor is the one to take, always take the brunt of the force. It's the most expensive component and the one that gets beat up the most. So that's the one you should be figuring out how to take care of it. For me, it doesn't matter the brand, the manufacturer for me. It's like, if you're out in the field and you're stuck, you got to make sure you protect that compressor because if that goes down, refrigeration is done.
• 0:28
  Robert: Done. Yeah. And that was exactly my point, right? I said, guys, listen, I'm going to relate this to the doctor. If you're sick and you go to the hospital, what's the first thing they do is check your blood pressure. It's the same as a compress, they're not checking anything else, right? You have to check the heart of the system.
• 0:28
  And that's the compressor. Yeah. Whether you're to have no oil, 'cause you have oil carryover rate, whether it's your RG Ts. And then I gave them, once I, once I explained the RGT, it was really nice in the class because they did have refrigeration learning background, right? So I said, okay guys, if we were to see 30 degree RGT, what does that mean?
• 0:28
  And even, you know, now the kids are starting to get it. Oh, it means flood back. Yeah. Okay. So what are some symptoms we would see, right? A dirty coil, blown fan circuit, iced up coil, right? Whatever it is. So once you set the foundation of refrigeration, they understood it. And the same going the other way, right?
• 0:29
  And even, you know, now the kids are starting to get it. Oh, it means flood back. Yeah. Okay. So what are some symptoms we would see, right? A dirty coil, blown fan circuit, iced up coil, right? Whatever it is. So once you set the foundation of refrigeration, they understood it. And the same going the other way, right?
• 0:29
  When it was 95 degrees. You have a leak, right? Your superheat's not right. Something. So they started to associate the refrigeration fundamentals once we use that terminology, right? But it was a great learning experience. And I actually, I had, I think I had more than 30 students take the class twice, which was crazy because I was simply taking a fundamental of refrigeration and applying it to a component, right?
• 0:29
  Like you said, it doesn't matter what brand. Right. I wasn't brand specific in this case. It was just CO2, but mass flow is mass flow for many compressor and any refrigerant. Right. So the baselines are the same in the fundamental. Right.
• 0:29
  Trevor: Yeah. And that, that's really what blew my mind is like, cause I honestly, I was taught.
• 0:29
  I went to a great school. I've been to multiple refrigeration schools in my, my career. And, but one of the teachers, I'll never forget, you know, Trevor, when the, and I remember telling the class, you know, you can check the RLA and the compressor. Or the LRA, sorry. And you divide it by five or six and it should be in close.
• 0:30
  I went to a great school. I've been to multiple refrigeration schools in my, my career. And, but one of the teachers, I'll never forget, you know, Trevor, when the, and I remember telling the class, you know, you can check the RLA and the compressor. Or the LRA, sorry. And you divide it by five or six and it should be in close.
• 0:30
  That should be the range. And like, that's not, that's not actually, you got to go and plot it on the chart. You know what I mean? Or you look at the RLA, the rate at load amps. And if you're over that, your internals are going to trip off. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? That's a quick check, but you actually have to go into the carrier software, Carlyle software and Carwin software.
• 0:30
  Go in and put your plot it. You know what I mean? The Bitzer, the Copeland, whoever they got out there. Yes. And it's our job as technicians to go in and do it. And I do, I got a compressor training tonight, you know what I mean? And, and the guys there, I showed them some of the softwares and they're like, man, I'd never ever been on this before.
• 0:30
  You know what I mean? Yeah. I've been doing it for 10 years. Yeah. It's just, if you don't know and it's not, no, nobody's talking to you about it. How do you know? Because most technicians are out there doing their job, doing a great job at it, but if you don't get that opportunity to do that learning or it's not in your area or you're not looking for it all the time, it's right.
• 0:31
  You know what I mean? Yeah. I've been doing it for 10 years. Yeah. It's just, if you don't know and it's not, no, nobody's talking to you about it. How do you know? Because most technicians are out there doing their job, doing a great job at it, but if you don't get that opportunity to do that learning or it's not in your area or you're not looking for it all the time, it's right.
• 0:31
  You just don't know. Right.
• 0:31
  Robert: Yep.
• 0:31
  Trevor: Yeah,
• 0:31
  Robert: and I realized that because when we then, as we, we went from fundamentals to actually physically tearing it down, I had told them, you know, explain to them what, what are they looking at? What are they seeing? Right? Because we heard a lot throughout the show in the industry that a compressor is a compressor.
• 0:31
  And I said, guys, for one moment, I just want to talk about safety because the most important thing to me is that when you guys go out into the field, that you, that you understand that you're safe and that you come home to your families, right? We want you to do the best thing. And one of the craziest things that I hear at these shows is a compressor is a compressor and it's not.
• 0:31
  And simply being that in our case, we have a proprietary oil sump and I've been on several throughout my 30 year career. Where liquid has been inside of that. And I've had technicians valve it off and everybody tells you a crankcase heater is really great. A crankcase heater is really great, but in a case where you have a proprietary oil sump full of liquid, right.
• 0:31
  I had technicians because you know, they're there at night. Nobody wants to pay overtime. They're tired. So they valve off the discharge and they valve off the service and they trap the liquid inside, right. The pressure vessel of compressors, a pressure, a pressure vessel. They shot the four 60. They think it's safe and they go home, but the crankcase heater was 120 volt circuit and they left it on and I've come back in the morning and the compressors exploded and hurt him.
• 0:32
  I had technicians because you know, they're there at night. Nobody wants to pay overtime. They're tired. So they valve off the discharge and they valve off the service and they trap the liquid inside, right. The pressure vessel of compressors, a pressure, a pressure vessel. They shot the four 60. They think it's safe and they go home, but the crankcase heater was 120 volt circuit and they left it on and I've come back in the morning and the compressors exploded and hurt him.
• 0:32
  Right. And I feel like sometimes these safety aspects of knowing that component tree like you're saying, we want the guys to be safe, make sure that you know when they're out there that they understand the component that they're working on because even if we switch over to oil carryover rate, some compressor manufacturers have plus 30 percent oil carryover rate.
• 0:32
  Those of us from a carrier standpoint, we have less than 1%. So, right, that oiling system, the velocities, the P traps, the system design is going to be much different. The PRVs are going to be different from 1 brand to another. Right? And I think the technicians, you know, just like saying, hey, Trevor, we like shoes.
• 0:33
  Those of us from a carrier standpoint, we have less than 1%. So, right, that oiling system, the velocities, the P traps, the system design is going to be much different. The PRVs are going to be different from 1 brand to another. Right? And I think the technicians, you know, just like saying, hey, Trevor, we like shoes.
• 0:33
  But what, what kind of shoes are we talking about? Right. We're running shoes, you know, nice shoes. There's all kinds, right.
• 0:33
  Trevor: And that's the thing. And that's what I do. Like each. This was another crazy thing is because I worked at Copeland is that like every compressor has a manual. So you guys, you know what I mean?
• 0:33
  This model compressor, because you guys get the zero six D and then then there's zero CC and zero five. You know what I mean? So they all got different manuals. So you got to follow that one just because it said it in this man and stuff, lots of it transfers over, but there's specific stuff on specific manuals that you have to learn.
• 0:33
  It's like the two stage compressor, you know, read the fixed stage and not read the two stage or vice versa. So, and that's, that's the big thing that I keep teaching guys. It's like, well, that's a manual and it's so big, but you know what? You'll troubleshoot. You read it a couple of times. You're troubleshooting.
• 0:33
  You're going to be. Go way faster and your troubleshooting time is going to drop big time.
• 0:34
  You're going to be. Go way faster and your troubleshooting time is going to drop big time.
• 0:34
  Robert: Yep. And I think a lot, I think, you know, that brings up a good point. Some guys may not be proactive and I want to retake the time to read. I'm tired. I worked 14 hours. Like you said, I'm up all night, but that goes back to, well, who's the resource?
• 0:34
  We're here as component manufacturers to help. Do you know how many service calls I get today from service that needs to support them? From a car carrier, none, zero, right. And we're here to help even, right. Just say, listen, where, where are you at? What are you seeing? What are you doing? And that relationship, I think in the, in the refrigeration side of the business has been lost a little bit.
• 0:34
  And it's great though, that people like yourself are out there because what's happening now is I would say the past six months, I've had more unions reach out to me in the U S than I ever had, starting with the Simply asking for new products to train kids, new PowerPoint presentations, right? So they can start to explain the technologies, right?
• 0:34
  They were just so far behind the people that were behind me. That's I went into that union school, like you said, in Seattle a few weeks ago, the compressors in there were 95 and I'm like, why are you teaching them that technology? It's like carbureted and fuel injected. They have new computer systems on new cars today.
• 0:35
  They were just so far behind the people that were behind me. That's I went into that union school, like you said, in Seattle a few weeks ago, the compressors in there were 95 and I'm like, why are you teaching them that technology? It's like carbureted and fuel injected. They have new computer systems on new cars today.
• 0:35
  You have to teach them. I can, I just want to give you all new equipment for 2024 that a technician in today's world is going to see. It doesn't make sense fundamentally to train them on something that's obsolete. Right.
• 0:35
  Trevor: And that's the thing I think. That goes back. That's even a whole bigger story about investing into the different schools.
• 0:35
  And you'll see, cause some are union, some are non union and then some are for profit, some are not for profit. So there's a, we don't need to dive into that, but it's, I've seen it time and time again, more schools are teaching for HVAC cause they can push kids through versus refrigeration. You know what I mean?
• 0:35
  It's like so, so I feel, yeah. And I think it's. It's just important just to continue to invest in the refrigeration people, you know, and which is great for you doing. And it's great that people are starting to call you because every time in my training, I'm like, you gotta be calling the manufacturers.
• 0:36
  It's like so, so I feel, yeah. And I think it's. It's just important just to continue to invest in the refrigeration people, you know, and which is great for you doing. And it's great that people are starting to call you because every time in my training, I'm like, you gotta be calling the manufacturers. That's why they have support team. And then some of them say, well, it just goes to the Manila or Philippines, or it goes to another country, India, you know, that's who was answering the phone. You got to start somewhere. You know what I mean? It's a call at two o'clock in the morning. Don't expect someone to be up at two o'clock in the morning to answer your call, but.
• 0:36
  Yeah, they will try to get back to you. Most of them, you know what I mean? Like, and there's people there cause you may call the first person at that manufacturer and they don't want to answer it. And it's a bad day for them. So it was nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with your question.
• 0:36
  They're just having a bad day. Call again, get somebody else and talk to them. You know what I mean? It's just, it's just like, if you have a bad day and you're talking to a customer, right? And then the customer has on you. So it's just like, I keep telling them, you just got to keep calling, asking the questions and don't give up.
• 0:36
  Right. Because there's people like you that want to help.
• 0:36
  Robert: A hundred percent. In fact, most of the time for me today in my, in my local region of Western. I'll go to the job site. I've been to several job sites by Climate Pros as a contractor, right? Articom, right? CoolSys. There'll be job sites where the technicians, maybe, maybe it was a job five years ago, you know, whether it had been a Hill Phoenix, a Husband Design, whoever used our compressor technology, but the technicians are scratching their head.
• 0:37
  Robert: A hundred percent. In fact, most of the time for me today in my, in my local region of Western. I'll go to the job site. I've been to several job sites by Climate Pros as a contractor, right? Articom, right? CoolSys. There'll be job sites where the technicians, maybe, maybe it was a job five years ago, you know, whether it had been a Hill Phoenix, a Husband Design, whoever used our compressor technology, but the technicians are scratching their head.
• 0:37
  They've lost a compressor after a compressor and they'll say, hey, let's call the manufacturer and we'll go out and I'll start looking at it and go, okay. It wasn't piped right or the separator's wrong or right. We'll be able to identify from a manufacturing standpoint, right? The system issues that we would recommend to get you back on track and not have those losses and headaches, right?
• 0:37
  And it's been very successful so far, but I would say it's only been within the past year that contractors as a whole have really started to reach out for assistance to bring the manufacturer on site, right? And say, Hey, this is what we're seeing. You know, what, what can we do to make it right?
• 0:37
  Trevor: And this, and you know, this, this is something that it could cost you as a contractor or a technician, you know, some manufacturers charge some don't, it doesn't even matter at the end of the day.
• 0:37
  What is the learning value in that? You know what I mean? Are they going to, you have to pay for you to just say, to come out and you teach them. And then they learn how many compressors are going to be saved from there. How much dollar value is going to, you're going to save that end user at the end of the day and bring value to them.
• 0:38
  What is the learning value in that? You know what I mean? Are they going to, you have to pay for you to just say, to come out and you teach them. And then they learn how many compressors are going to be saved from there. How much dollar value is going to, you're going to save that end user at the end of the day and bring value to them.
• 0:38
  And I keep telling technicians too, it's like, if you have to take a day off work to get an unbelievable training and it's going to change your life and your career, why, why not? You know what I mean? At the end of the day, because this is, this is investing in yourself. You keep that, you know what I mean?
• 0:38
  You keep that like all those technicians and students that went out to the event in Seattle, you know what I mean? And most of the time, the contract, I know a lot of the contractors out there, they send a lot of their technicians from their company because they know the value in it. Right. And they care about the technicians growing their knowledge.
• 0:38
  But if you have to take a day off work to learn, to get better, why not? Yeah. Cause it's,
• 0:38
  Robert: you know, like a hundred and look at, here we are. You know, maybe at the end of my career season, veteran, whatever you want to say right about my title would be, but I still have to learn. And that's what I love about this trade.
• 0:38
  I am constantly at what when I was a kid in the first glide call system came out glide call was the coolest and he'll Phoenix rusty walkers going all over teaching you how to chill the glide call on the floor, right? That was the biggest thing and how to program the pump station and. Now, glycol is not that big a thing.
• 0:39
  I am constantly at what when I was a kid in the first glide call system came out glide call was the coolest and he'll Phoenix rusty walkers going all over teaching you how to chill the glide call on the floor, right? That was the biggest thing and how to program the pump station and. Now, glycol is not that big a thing.
• 0:39
  It's CO2 or I got a fascinating job to do. I did with Ed Esberg, right? I did ammonia over liquid CO2 at a Rayleigh supermarket. Every, I go to the show there, there's no ammonia in a supermarket. Well, that's not quite true. We just, we did it five years ago and it's been a successful system. So the continuing learning experience, I'm still learning.
• 0:39
  And that's what I love about this trade. That's what keeps me engaged, right?
• 0:39
  Trevor: No, and I love that. I love that. Robert, man, this is, this has been awesome already. We could sit and talk more hours. We didn't even dive into any real technical, a little bit of technical stuff, but what would be like, if you're a new technician, just starting out, you know, you, you got your own vehicle, you're starting service, or you're just getting the construction, it doesn't really matter.
• 0:39
  You're one, two years into the supermarket industry. What advice would you give a new technician?
• 0:40
  You're one, two years into the supermarket industry. What advice would you give a new technician? Robert: I would say, you know, find yourself handful of good resources and I had that, I think, as myself guys that were, I wanted to surround myself with people that were better than I was right smarter than I was knew something different than I was and I still there's still my personal friends today and family.
• 0:40
  Right? Literally the same 5 guys. I had 5 guys that I decided, you know what? I'm going to ride their coattails. And and they're the same 5 guys still today that I met from non union and union. And if I have a technical problem today that I don't understand, it's the same guys I reach out to today.
• 0:40
  So I'd say, find those 5 resources. Stay focused on yourself, right? Don't get stressed out, right? And I think that final thing, like I said, is don't feel, don't ever be under confident, right? Don't feel like you have to know everything. Just know that you have to know where to find the answer. And with those fundamentals, right?
• 0:40
  Your success is up to you. The sky's the limit.
• 0:40
  Trevor: Yeah, especially in this trade. Yeah, I love that and I I agree with that as well Robert, how can people find out more about you linkedin? Where can people reach out to you if they want to say? Hey cindy thanks for The podcast or just want to connect with you.
• 0:41
  Trevor: Yeah, especially in this trade. Yeah, I love that and I I agree with that as well Robert, how can people find out more about you linkedin? Where can people reach out to you if they want to say? Hey cindy thanks for The podcast or just want to connect with you.
• 0:41
  Robert: Yeah, linkedin is a great spot to reach me on. I have a Profile there. My name is on the carrier website for carlisle So you can reach me through the carlisle website and you know My personal cell phone number, I'll give it out here. It's the same cell phone number on all the plans in the world.
• 0:41
  So everybody knows it. Anyway, I've had it for 30 years, but if you need, you know, technical advice, it's 480 359 8627. Again, it's 480 359 8627. I've had that line since I was about 19. And if you have a refrigeration question about anything, you know, you're stuck somewhere you need help in the middle of the night, you call me, I'll always answer the phone.
• 0:41
  Trevor: Wow. Wow. That anytime,
• 0:41
  Robert: any place, right? That's, that's the bet. That's the bat line,
• 0:41
  Trevor: man, man. See, and this is people care about the industry and nobody ever gave up their phone number to help the industry. And Robert, man, that, that is awesome that you do that and help so many thousands of people so far and many more thousands of people.
• 0:42
  Trevor: man, man. See, and this is people care about the industry and nobody ever gave up their phone number to help the industry. And Robert, man, that, that is awesome that you do that and help so many thousands of people so far and many more thousands of people.
• 0:42
  Robert, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me on the refrigeration mentor podcast. And I look forward to us connecting again soon.
• 0:42
  Robert: Thank you, Trevor.
• 0:43
  Robert: Thank you, Trevor.