Latest / Ridiculous History / Christopher Columbus Was Such A Jerk That Even Spain Turned Against Him

Transcript

Christopher Columbus Was Such A Jerk That Even Spain Turned Against Him · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous history as a production of I Heart Radio. Here's
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: a golden oldie many of us will instantly remember in
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: four d and nine two Columbus sailed the Ocean blue.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: He had three ships and left from Spain. He sailed
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: through sunshine, wind and rain, and it goes on and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: on and on. It's not terribly historically accurate. It's about
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: a guy named Christopher Columbus, or at least that's how
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: we say the name of Cristobal Cologne in English. Hi,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I'm ben Ben. I know this isn't about Chris Columbus,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: who directed the Home Alone movies. This is no, this
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: is not that guy succeeded despite the nominative determinism working
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: against him. Uh. And you know, uh, we've got to
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: say this is this somewhat of a timely episode. The
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: day that is sometimes called Indigenous People's Days, sometimes called
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Columbus Day is upon us. You know, it's coming up
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: in a few weeks. Have you ever seen that episode
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: of the Sopranos Um where uh, Tony and the crew
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: get all up in arms with the Native American population
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: in New Jersey. Um, kind of arguing about Columbus Day
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: and the Columbus Day Parade. No I was established earlier.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen the sopranis. Oh that's right. Have we
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: talked about this. I didn't remember. It's just it's such
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: a good show. Um, but it is a big deal
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: in the Italian community. Uh. Columbus has still kind of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: looked at as a bit of a as a bit
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of a hero in certain certain circles. And it's a
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: very controversial thing because the idea of calling it Indigenous
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: People's Day to folks who still think Columbus was an
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: okay guy. Um, that's they think that's like overly PC
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: or it's sort of whitewashing history or whatever, and they
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: don't dig. And that's the episode of the club the
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: spranis about. Um. But yeah, it turns out Colomas not
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a particularly great guy. No. No. Now, in certain circles,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: of course, all sorts of historical figures are are lauded,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: right and looked up to uh figure that we see
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: as incredibly heroic. And this certain circle of ours, fellow listeners,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: is our super producer Casey Pegram, who in his absence,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: has bequeathed it's a joke for everyone to listen to
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: the last episode bequeathed us the wonderful presence of our
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: guest super producer j J. Pauseway, so let's give it
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: up for him, j J. How you doing? Okay? That's
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a thumbs up from j J. We know that history
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: is much more complicated than the tales we teach to
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: school children. And if you who are an eighties or
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: nineties baby, as they're called here in the US, then
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: at least in elementary school, you probably got a very
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: sanitized version of the the explorations of Christopher Columbus. And
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: on the second Monday of every October this day occurs
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Columbus Day Indigenous People's Day. But in recent decades, especially
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: the last decade or so, more and more historians have
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: brought to the mainstream the problematic life and work of
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: this explorer, ultimately asking should we treat him as a hero?
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: It turns out that this controversy is not new. In fact,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: this controversy over whether Columbus was a villain or a
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: hero dates all the way back to the time of
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the Spanish monarchy, which is crazy. It is crazy. And
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: just to backtrack really quickly, something I saw at the
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: top of the show, I just wanted to clarify, um,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Columbus Day is often kind of enshrined in the Italian
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: American community as sort of a celebration of their own heritage,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and many in that community do still defend it to
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: this day, and that is kind of what that Sopranos
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: episode is about. But it goes all the way back
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: to New York City in eighteen sixty six when the
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: first Columbus Day celebration took place. So obviously everybody in
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: the Italian American community doesn't fiercely defend Columbus Day, but
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: it is very much still an ongoing point of contention.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I see, yeah, and that's because, uh, Columbus is Italian.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: He was born in the Republic of Genoa in fourteen
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: fifty one, and he grew up along the Italian coast
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: in the northwest. When he was ten years old, he
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: started working on ships. He was, you know, probably like
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: a cabin boy something like that, transporting goods from the
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Iberian Peninsula all the way up to Ireland. Eventually he
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: settles down in Lisbon and he continues to work as
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: a shipper and importer. He marries, he has a kid.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: He learns to speak several languages. He was a polyglot.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: He spoke Latin, Portuguese and Castilian, and he was self taught. Right,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: he didn't obtain a formal education. Not as big a
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: deal then as it is now. Right. He uh, He
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: read astronomy, geography, history, and he loved reading the stories
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: of travelers like Marco Polo. And he came up at
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: a time when exploration was a big deal on the
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: idea of whether it be expansion or just sort of
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: going venturing out into the world. Because of the storied
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and history of folks like Marco Polo, trade by shipping
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: roots was a huge deal. Um. But in fourteen fifty three,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: that is when Constantinople was defeated, it was overtaken by
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: the Ottoman Turks, and some of these trade routes that
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: had been you know, a breeze became very dangerous to Europeans,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: specifically Christian Europeans. And these roots lead to Asia and
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the Silk Road for trading of spices and fabrics and
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: all kinds of different goods that you just couldn't get
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: in Europe. Um. So it became a very important time
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: to find friendlier routes to Asia, whether by sea or
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: by land. Um. And that is when the King of
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Portugal's astronomer in fourteen seventy decided that it would be
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: a smart move to go west, young man, to the
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Iberian Peninsula, where you could kind of reinvigorate some of
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: this trade with Asia exactly exactly. And they weren't they
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: weren't sure what they would find. But a lot of
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: this stuff you'll hear, especially as a child, about sailing
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: or circuit navigating the globe. We're attempting to sail long
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: distances across the seas is going to be sort of simplified.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: History shows us that knowledge of world geography developed unevenly
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: so some regions, in some countries, some communities knew more
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: about the world around us in the world over the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: edges of the map than others did. But people wanted
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: to search for these new trade routes. This is something
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: that later our species would call the Age of Discovery.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: In European explorer Bartolomuldas reaches the Cape of Good Hope
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: that's at the southern tip of the African continent. And
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: although this opened up a new area of focus for
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of explorers, Columbus and his brother, who also
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: lived in Lisbon remained strongly committed to this idea of
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: sailing west from the Canary Islands, and Columbus had his brother,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: his younger brother, Bartolomul. They created this plan where they said, Okay,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go to the Canary Islands off the west
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: coast of Africa, and then we're gonna sail west. And
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: according to my calculations, says Columbus, Japan is about three
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: thousand seven kilometers away. For a quick conversion to anybody
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: who's not metric system friendly, that is two thousand two.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Just in case you're wondering, that is also incorrect. Uh.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: He thought this would be a great way to explore.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: He thought this would be a great way to discover
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: a new, super convenient trade route. But at this time,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: very few people knew that there was a huge land
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: mass two continents between the Canary Islands and Japan. So
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: they went to get financial support from royalty, and they
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: pitched their idea to the King of Portugal, and the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: King of Portugal says, you guys are crazy, that's nuts.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Let's spend money on real stuff. Yeah, you crazy kids
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: coming in here with your pipe dreams about discovery. Bright
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: eyed dreamers, you know, I mean, come on, we got
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: no time for this here in the core. This is
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: this is a business. We're running a country. Get out
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: of here. We have to spend money hunting witches. Yeah exactly.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: So then the brothers went to England to try to
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: talk to the king. It was Henry the seventh time,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and no dice on that one either. Um. They finally
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: did get an audience with the Queen of Spain, Isabella
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: the First and that's where you know, we we probably
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: all remember this part of the story. I didn't know
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: about the rejections, Ben, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like how Abraham Lincoln unsuccessfully tried a
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: couple of things and then became one of the most
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: lauded presidents, right, Columbus and co. The Columbus brothers met
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: with a couple of different rejections because seriously, think how
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you would feel if someone's pitching this to you. This
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: is a crazy plan. They negotiated with the Catholic monarchs
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: for what two years? Yeah exactly, and then they ultimately
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: got down to brass tacks. Um. Because Isabella wasn't fully
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: invested in this idea of exploration, but she did see
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: the potential um if they discovered something, and they ultimately
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: decided that if they did discover something, that Columbus would
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: become an Admiral of the Ocean Sea, viceroy and governor
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: of all the new lands that he was covered for Spain,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: and the ten percent of the proceeds from said new
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: lands would go to him, and he would also get
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: a stake in um new endeavors, new exploration endeavors, like
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: essentially a new enterprise, ten percent of all revenues from
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the new lands, ten percent of everything. That's insane, right,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: And then he also this is the weird one. This
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: shows us how the government worked at the time, and
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: what I would say is one of the great errors
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: of many monarchies or any nepotistic system, which actually guess
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: any system after a certain size decays due to nepotism.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: He would be given the power to nominate three people
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: of his choice for any office he liked in the
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: new government. Didn't matter, their qualifications, didn't matter. They just
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: got to get that Columbus stamp. And so that is
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: what led to him setting sail three ships in early August.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Fast forward October twelve, Round two am of the same
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: year as sailor aboard the Pinta spots land they confirmed
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the sighting they shoot off a cannon. This lets Columbus,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: who was on the Santa marian No, and they as
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Columbus says, he sees the land, he claims it for Spain.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And this means that just claiming that first piece gives
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: him all that stuff that the Spanish government had promised him,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and he instantly, like in a snap, becomes viceroy and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: governor of Hispaniola. He appoints his brothers and his sons
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: too high positions, and then the exploration turns horrific. On
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: his second voyage, he took off from Spain with all
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: of these new titles under his belt, and he took
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: seventeen ships this time, and you know, an absolute uh
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: stockpile of supplies to this new world. And Spain being
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: a very intensely Catholic state, they were all about converting
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: people to Catholicism, and so that was a big part
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: of Columbus's mandate. So this is interesting. Read a lot
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: of books from this time period, or you know, contemporary accounts,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and what we see is that there are some true believers.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Often they are missionaries. Right, there are some true believers
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: who think that they are saving people's souls even if
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: it results in their physical torture and death. Well, what
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: that guy in recent times where he was trying to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: go to that island that hadn't been set foot upon
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: by non indigenous folks and they set in all island. Yeah, yeah,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and we've got an episode of that on a different show. Stuff.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: They don't want you to know if you want to
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: check out this strange and increasingly tragic tale of the
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: North Centinel ease. Yeah, it's it's similar because although they
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: are true believers, there are relatively few true believers. There
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: are a lot of believers in terms of convenience. The
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: goal here is establishing control resource extraction, particularly taking u
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: precious metals and if possible, high value trade goods and
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: extracting them from the native lands, taking them to Europe
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: and using those to finance the the aims of the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: European government, the colonial governments there. So they need this
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: idea sort of like how a lot of countries nowadays
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: don't say we're going to war because we want you know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: insert resource here, rare earth metals or um, you know,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: shipping rights or oil or something. They say, we're fighting
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: for an idea. We're fighting for an ideal. We are
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: saving people. So that's that's why they were like, Okay,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you can go establish a settlement, but anybody you meet
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: there is not Catholic has to become Catholic because that's
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: our cover story for doing all these horrible things. Yes,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: you must supply us with X number of fresh souls.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: And imagine being someone who has like you've lived on
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: the You've lived here your whole life, right, your family
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: has lived here for generations. These crazy folks who are
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: dressed in a very strange fashion, coming from you know,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: unrecognizable ships, with all this weird technology, they ask you
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: bizarre things. Right, do you accept you know, Jesus Christ
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: is your Lord and savior as as and the Catholic
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Church is the one true Church of Jesus Christ. If
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: you have never heard that and you have no reference point,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: you don't understand what's going on. And then additionally, these
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: people are now saying that they own the place they
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: just showed up at, and then they force the people
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: who live there to adhere to these customs that make
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you do these strange traditions. You have to you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: you have to recite words, and those words or prayers,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: but you don't know what they mean, and you don't
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: know why you have to say them. And you do
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: have to do this because if you refuse or if
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: you don't understand what's happening, then these forces, these Europeans
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: feel like they are doing the religiously correct thing by
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: egg exiling you, selling you into slavery, mutilating you, or
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: murdering you. We have some challenging, sobering, heartbreaking statistics from
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: a biography of Columbus called Columbus The Four Voyages from
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Lawrence Burgreen. You can find in this book accounts from
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: people who participated in Columbus expeditions. One Michelle de Caneo,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: said that Columbus ordered fifteen hundred men and women seized,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and then of those fifteen hundred, four hundred were let go,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: We're set free, five hundred were sent We're going to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: be sent to Spain, and another six hundred were to
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: be enslaved by the Spanish forces remaining on the islands. Yeah,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: and then about two five hundred went to Spain died
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: horrifically in the voyage. From any number of things disease, malnutrition. Um,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: and we're thrown into the sea. We have Remember, these
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: folks had absolutely no concept of what they were being
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: asked to do, of what Christianity was, of what the
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: aims of these European folks were who were laying claim
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: on this place. They had lived and raised their families
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and you know, had a whole life and culture and friends.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's mind boggling. Can you imagine yourself
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: in that situation, like some invading force that speaks a
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: language you don't understand, coming and saying, hey, we're gonna
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: needs you to you know, fall in line and believe
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: this thing that we tell you to believe, not to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: mention the language barrier. I mean, the whole thing just
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: is very so bring. Yeah, it's a it's a frightening thing.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: And soon after the settlement occurs and it's up and running,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the government of Spain starts receiving complaints, not just from
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: the native people who they probably ignored and if we're
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: being completely candid, did not really consider them. People are
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: very very racist. Uh. They get complaints from the colonists,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the colonists, the Spanish people, Spanish individuals who are living
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: there are complaining about what Columbus and his brothers are doing.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: There's an investigation into charges against Columbus. Twenty three colonists testify.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: They say the governor is not just treating us terribly,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: he's treating native people even worse. And we went at
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: warn everyone. The next descriptions coming up are graphic, but
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: we would be remiss if we did not include these.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So if you have any young children listening with you now,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: maybe skip ahead for a little bit. So in one
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: of the statements from one of those twenty three colonists
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: and individual reports that a man was found guilty of
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: stealing corn, and Christopher Columbus himself ordered this man to
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: have his nose and ears cut off and then sold
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: into slavery. Was that like a thing that they did
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: commonly in Spain. Was Columbus just kind of a psychopath
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: that was coming up with the stuff on the fly. Yeah,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I think it was just there being authoritarian because they're
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: trying to establish their own rule of law. We certainly
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: know the Spanish Inquisition yielded some of the most creative
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and horrifying tortures that history has never seen. So maybe
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: maybe it was something that he was familiar with. Some
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: of those torture devices had later been found to be frauds,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: but most of them, the really messed uplands are real,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: like the Iron Maidens, not historically accurate for that time.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: But the other stuff like the rack just branding people
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: for the heck of it. Another colonists says that there
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: was a woman who said that Christopher Columbus came from
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: a low birth rank. And when this person said this,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Columbus's brother ordered the woman to be forced to walk
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the streets of Santo Domingo nude. But that wasn't it.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: There was one more thing he ordered after she had
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to walk around naked. Yeah, he ordered that you have
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: her tongue cut out. Um. And he Columbus reportedly congratulated
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: his brother Um on defending their family's good name in
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: doing this. And you know it goes on. I mean,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: there was an Indian attack of about two thousand Indians
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and you know again it says them defending their their
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: territory against these encroachers, and Um Alonzo de Odeja was
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: one of Columbus's men. He in retribution, Um had him
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: bring three of the leaders of this revolt to Columbus Um,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: who he had publicly beheaded, and he also ordered his
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: men to day how who's the who's the leader? Was
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: like one of Columbus is kind of I guess you
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: could call it like a captain or underlings. Um ordered
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: him to grab another Indian, bring him in the middle
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: of the village, similarly in a display like with the woman,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and cut off his ears in retribution for the Indians
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: not being helpful to help the Spaniards Um and crossing
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a river, so literally, you know, punishing them for not
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: being completely all about you know, just helping them with
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: whatever they needed in this invasion. Yeah, exactly. And we
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: do want to note here as well that we are
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: used when we use the phrase Indian for the group
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: of people, we're using the phrase that the colonists, right. Also,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Hispaniola is modern day Dominican Republic for anyone who's like,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: where is this in the Caribbean, So add to that.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: For first of all, I think it's very clear from
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: this mutilation and this enslavement that Columbus is if adhering
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: to the letter of his mission to spread Catholicism, he's
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: certainly not adhering to the laws of the book. He
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: purports to follow. Right, it's very un christ like. And
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not an authority here, but it's very
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: christ like to do that kind of stuff to people.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: And the situation in this new settlement just gets worse
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: and worse and worse. The European sailors can't get used
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: to the food that is the common you know, like
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the common staples in Hispaniola. Wheat is a staple grain
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: in a lot of European diets at the time, but
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: maze or corn is the staple in this area of
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the world, and people are becoming ill because they can't
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: process this. They also get uncontrollable diarrhea and dysentery from
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the meat or the protein they're trying to eat. But
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: they didn't have it near as bad as the native
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: population because while those guys were getting dysentery and diarrhea,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the native population was exposed for the first time ever
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: two accidental germ warfare the This is not something that
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: the Europeans at the time would have been very well
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: aware of, but they carried measles and smallpox with them
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: when they got off the ships. They also use sexual
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: assault on both native men and women, and the government
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: tacit Lee sanctioned this, you know what I mean, they
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: didn't pass a law. No one was punished for doing this,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and so the people who weren't dying of measles and
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: smallpox might contract as sexually transmitted disease, and then these
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: diseases would spread. You'll see, as reported by History Collection
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: dot Co that the men were assaulting native populations. If
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: they assaulted someone who already had a sexually transmitted disease,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: they would of course contracted. They would go back to
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Europe and they would carry it along. Right, Yes, all
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that is absolutely true. Um most you know, these these
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: mutilations and these tortures, I mean that was more or
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: less sanctioned. I mean not necessarily, its sanctioned directly, but
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: it was the kinds of things that the government of
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Spain would have been comfortable doing. Two heretics, shall we say, right,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: So it was it was once we really get into
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the really nasty territory of these sexual assaults and this
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: kind of just utter in humanity. Um. I mean, essentially
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Columbus and his men became raping and pillaging monsters, you know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: and that word of this behavior made it back to Spain.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Violence is the only rule of law in Hispaniola at
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: the time, right, and people are starving, infrastructures breaking down. Uh,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Columbus is leader in absentia because he's traveling more and more.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: He's he's going on a third voyage and in Columbus
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: sends a letter to the King and the Queen of
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Spain and says, I need some help governing this. But
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: his request came is far too late, because as mentioned earlier,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: the rulers of Spain already got word of the terrible
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: things that are happening. Ferdinand and Isabella by hundred have
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: already heard about what's going on, and so they remove
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the Columbus family from their governmental positions and they say, hey,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: you have to get back to Spain. Stop mucking about.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And as soon as the Columbus gang, I will use
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: gang because they were committing criminal acts. As soon as
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the gang arrives, they're thrown in prison. What happens to
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Columbus specifically, Yeah, I mean all of those titles that
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: we talked about the Columbus held so dear that were
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the reward for his discoveries. He was stripped of those completely.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: His rank of admiral of the ocean, sea gone, viceroy
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: governorship gone, and he was denied any more claim on
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: this new enterprise as points were gone. Uh. Ferdinand um
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: released his men eventually. I think they were in prison
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: for about six weeks. But Columbus did petition the king
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: to let him do one more voyage to the New World,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: which was granted. Maybe it's kind of like a consolation
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: prize or let the guy have his dignity. I don't know,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: shot a redemption maybe, I don't know. But let's also
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: point out that none of those people were assaulted sexually.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: None of them lost their limbs, their noses, or their ears. No,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: it was an utter slap on the wrist, barely a
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: brush on the wrist. Yeah. Um. So he did make
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: that final voyage in April of fifteen o two, um,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: presumably to apologize to everybody. No, No, that didn't happen. Yeah.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think he was on like his third step
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: of whatever the explorer version of a A is now.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think so either. Um. And it was super treacherous.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: He was washed ashore into what is now Jamaica and
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: a tropical storm. Um. And he was stuck there for
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: a year, and he when he and his crew were
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: rescued and he had gotten He's getting older at this point,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: and he had really bad arthritis that was caused by surprise, surprise,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: come up and for columbus es, sexually transmitted disease or
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: a bacterial infection. History isn't sure, but he was also
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: bleeding from his eyes. He could barely move. He returns
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: to Spain. He dies there in fifteen oh four, and
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Spanish administrators record so much about his life and his voyages.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: He did not single handedly slaughter thousands of native inhabitants. Uh.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: He is credited still with being the first European to
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: successfully navigate the Atlantic, even though he's completely wrong about
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: where he was going and he didn't exactly know where
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: in the world he was when he arrived. It's seen
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: as um the thing that opened the door for other explorers.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And so he didn't single handedly physically kill tons and
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: tons of people, but through his actions both as governor
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and as an explorer, he created a chain of events
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: that doomed entire worlds of people to death at the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: at the hands of conquistadors. And what did they what
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: did they get? What did the Spanish people get? It?
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Didn't enrich the country beyond its wildest dreams or anything.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: But um, there's a great article in Jacobin that refers
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: to it as giving them a little bit of an edge. Um.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: It gave them money to continue to hire mercenaries for
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: many of these wars that they had to fight, and
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: essentially allowed them to kind of hold on to what
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: they had in terms of their monarchy. But the population suffered, right,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I mean people were starving in the streets, that the
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: class divide was was wider and wider. The rich kept
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: getting richer and the poor kept getting poor. I mean
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: the tale as old as time. Right. Un Fortunately, until
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: we change, until we change things, right, Yes, it is true.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Out of all this, this tragedy, this heartbreak, this this
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: wanton cruelty and atrocity. Uh, the end goals of the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Spanish Empire also didn't actually work out. And that is
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: why people have such tremendous problems with the concept of
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: celebrating Christopher Columbus. We can also laundry lists really quick.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Some other disturbing things about Columbus. He forced the native
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: population to collect gold for him or die. Every everybody
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: over what, Yeah, it's like twelve or fourteen to work.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I think around fifty thousand Native people committed mass suicide
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: rather than dealing with the Spanish in any way. Yeah,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: they would destroy the food they had stored up so
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: that no one could eat it. They're they're practicing real
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: scorched earth stuff, jumping off of cliffs, poisoning themselves with roots,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: starving themselves to death, and a lot. And this came
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: because of this impossible requirement to deliver these tributes of gold.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: And they they really thought to die as I wish
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: to live, is better than to be forced into this
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: terrible position by these strange people. Within less than sixty
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: years after Christopher Columbus's first voyage, only five hundred out
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: of three hundred thousand Native people remained in Hispaniola. This
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: again comes from the work of Burgreen, and it is
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: a little bit of gu estimation, but in fourteen two
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: we can guess that about three hundred thousand inhabitants between
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: four a third have died, half due to mass suicide
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: fifteen o eight populations down to sixty thousand. Not to
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: mention the wide practice of sexual slavery. I'm sex trafficking. Um.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I believe nine and ten year old girls um under
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Columbus in this settlement were sold into sexual slavery. Disgusting. Yeah,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: it's insane. Uh. And then many native slaves um were
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: just summarily executed when they couldn't find anyone to reunite
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: them with. And I mean, you know, the Spanish essentially
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: treated many of these slaves just like just completely disposable um.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: When they were kind of transporting them chained together like
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: in a chain gang with shackles around their neck. Rather
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: than bother untying them or unchaining them, they would just
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: execute them and cut their heads off exactly. Yeah, and
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: this is just very high level. Look, but with all
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: this in consideration, we can see why it is uh
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: disturbing to sanitize these historical events and then to have
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: them ignored. You're in an annual celebration, as you mentioned,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: The first recorded Columbus celebration takes place in sev New
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: York City, but the first official holiday is in eighteen two.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: It finds traction at state levels. Eventually, Columbus Day is
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: observed by the US as a whole. In nineteen thirty four.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Thirty four years after that, Lyndon B. Johnson signs the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Uniform Holiday bill, and this makes Columbus Day a federal holiday.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: A lot of cities in this country have decided to
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: rename Columbus Day by calling it Indigenous People's Day. Some
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: states take a different tack to Hawaii calls it Discoverers
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Day and Recognition of the Polynesian discoverers of the Hawaiian Islands. Uh.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: And they say, provided that this day is not and
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: shall not be construed to be a state holiday. Uh.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And then there's a cool article that we found on
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: mental flaws. This might end on a little up note
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: for so I think we need it. Yeah, I think
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: we need it. Uh. So, so we found in school
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: article on mental flaws by Shaughnessy Pharaoh. Ten alternatives to
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Columbus Days celebrated around the country, and some are pretty cool.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: There's a teaching and friendship dance. The White Horse Creek
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Council over in Denver is a preservation society for indigenous culture,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: and they have been hosting this mini pow wow teaching
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: and friendship dance to sort of give Native people of
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: this part of the world the front seat in these stories. Yeah.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: And again back to the whole you know, Italian American
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: community debate that is still very much a thing. I
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: found an article from the New York Times with the
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: headline why some Italian Americans still fiercely defend Columbus Day. Um,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: it is a divisive issue. I mean, we know that
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: many folks that are held up as cultural heroes have
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: checkered path uts. I mean that's not unusual. But man,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: given what we know about Columbus and his men and
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: the absolute war crimes atrocities that they committed, I don't
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: fully understand, um, why anyone would want to hold this
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: guy up. And it's not about being Italian. It's just
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: about you know, this legacy is left behind, and you
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: gotta wonder, given what we know, Um, how did Columbus
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: get his own holiday in the first place, especially when
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: other folks like Amerigo Vespucci and Francisco Pizzarro were more popular, Um,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and kind of knew where they were going. Uh. There's
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: a New York Times article that goes into the history
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of the holiday. And here's a quote from from this article.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: As the American colonies formed an identity separate from their
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: English roots, colonists look to figures like the quote appointed
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: of God Columbus to symbolize their ideals. By the time
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: of the Revolution, writes John Noble, will Ford Columbus had
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: been transmuted into a national icon, a hero second only
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: to George Washington. So it's just a good example of
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: like the way, it's very easy to romanticize people and
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: overlook horrible things they've done if you can hold them
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: up as some kind of symbol or use them as
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: a stand in for your own hopes and dreams and ideals.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: And going back to alternative celebrations here, I'd like to
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: point out for anybody in the l A area, there's
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: a really cool thing called the Life Before Columbus Festival.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: There's also the Indigenous People's Day Music and Art Showcase.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: They're in St. Paul, Minnesota, the Santa Fe Indigenous People's
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Day Celebration, and Ashland, Oregon's De Colonizations Celebration. I'd love
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: to hear the experience of everyone who's visited one of
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: these celebrations or participated in them. And at this point,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: it seems like the future of Columbus Day is not
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: looking particular really bright for Christopher Columbus right it looks
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: like the holiday will transform into something that's a little
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: more honest and a little less sanitized. And the thing
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: about history is that, you know, history is a conversation.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: It's not a dead thing. It's not some old, dusty tome. Uh.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: And we as people with the benefit of retrospect, must
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: work together. It must work ardently to find the truth.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Even when the truth is ugly, it's still more valuable,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I do know exactly what
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: you mean. And it's a good thing to see the
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: tide turning, in my opinion, you know, against this kind
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of false history of holding up this this gentleman that
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: clearly didn't really deserve it, and to kind of flip
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: it and subvert it and make it more about being
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: aware of indigenous people, um, who often don't get a
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: fair shake and who have a history of having things
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: kind of just taken out from under them. Um. I
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: think that's an important thing to remember. And so with
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: that doing an this episode should be out before Columbus Day.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: And if you have any friends who are very very
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: pro Columbus, why not give this a give this a play,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: recommend this, give it to a first spin, give him
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: a downer moment and uh, and let us know how
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: it works out. Thank you so much for tuning in.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our guest super producer j J. Pass
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Way j J thumbs up, thumbs down, strong thumb hard
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: to feel good after that episode tough. It's toughy. Thanks also,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: of course, as always to our super producer there in Spirit,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Casey pegram a k a Us Bush is with us always.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Alex Williams who can post our theme reussys
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: she has a gay Losier and Ryan Barrish. Thanks to
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Christopher Hasciotis. Thanks to Eaves, Jeff Coat, thanks to you
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: know What. Thanks thanks to you know well Man. Thanks
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: to you Man. Thanks for not being a megalomaniacal, genocidal maniac.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know history is full of them. I'm
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: trying to do something for it. You are succeeding, my friend.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.