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HS "HAZING" GOES WRONG: D.A. TO PERPS "TURN YOURSELF IN" · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news.
0:08
Speaker 2: Tonight, a high school hazing goes horribly wrong. The district
0:13
Speaker 2: attorney makes a public statement to the perpetrators.
0:16
Speaker 1: Turn yourself in.
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Speaker 2: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, and I want
0:21
Speaker 2: to thank you for being with us.
0:23
Speaker 3: Five underclassmen on the West Hill High School lacrosse team
0:26
Speaker 3: are on a rare social outing with a couple of
0:28
Speaker 3: older teammates. The occasion is unlike any other. If all
0:31
Speaker 3: goes well, the younger teams might have a shot at
0:34
Speaker 3: proving their worth as new players on the team. It's
0:37
Speaker 3: a golden ticket to the highly coveted prize of social acceptance.
0:41
Speaker 3: In the intricate hierarchy of high school politics.
0:44
Speaker 2: Politics, social status, What does nobody get even now that
0:51
Speaker 2: these hazing incidents end in death. Before I go out
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Speaker 2: to an all star panel, I want you to meet
1:00
Speaker 2: someone very near and dear to my heart, and I
1:05
Speaker 2: finally get to speak to her in person. Sherry Falts
1:10
Speaker 2: is with us, the mother of Stone Faults, founder of
1:13
Speaker 2: I Am Stone Falts Foundation, the mission to stop deadly hazing.
1:21
Speaker 2: She lost her boy, her beautiful boy, Stone. Sherry, thank
1:30
Speaker 2: you for being with us, Thank you for having me,
1:32
Speaker 2: Miss folks, when you hear of another, and another and
1:36
Speaker 2: yet another deadly hazing has happened, what goes through your mind?
1:45
Speaker 4: It's just it's unbearable to say the least. You know,
1:50
Speaker 4: we continue to hear stories. I continue to read it.
1:54
Speaker 4: You know through Google alerts that it continues to happen.
1:57
Speaker 4: It's happening more often in high schools. It's just it's
2:04
Speaker 4: it's a nightmare. I remember four years ago now hazing
2:10
Speaker 4: wasn't even spoken about. Now it's becoming more prominent. It's
2:15
Speaker 4: in the news more often. You hear about it every day.
2:17
Speaker 2: Joining me is stone Faults his mom. There have been
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Speaker 2: even more hazing arrests and hazing incidents since.
2:28
Speaker 1: The case we're covering right now tonight.
2:30
Speaker 2: But I want to remind everyone who is stone Folds.
2:36
Speaker 1: Listen, what county name?
2:38
Speaker 5: Well one, what does your emergency?
2:40
Speaker 6: Hi?
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Speaker 7: The one that we know is a non response to
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Speaker 7: that you drink alcohol, like a lot of alcohol.
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Speaker 8: So where is he at?
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Speaker 9: We're how old is your friend?
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Speaker 2: Uh?
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Speaker 9: He's twenty twenty, okay, And what's he doing right now?
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Speaker 9: He's laying down on his side, and his ears are
3:02
Speaker 9: his face is really purple, and he his pupils aren't responsive. Okay,
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Speaker 9: is he breathing? Yeah, he's breathing, but it really shallow
3:15
Speaker 9: and he's been drinking. He said, yeah, okay.
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Speaker 1: Is he taking anything else we need to know about?
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Speaker 10: No?
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Speaker 9: What's your name?
3:26
Speaker 8: Okay?
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Speaker 5: Hay, paga? Okay.
3:28
Speaker 1: Are you positive he's breathing?
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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I'm You see his.
3:35
Speaker 1: Chest rising up and down?
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Speaker 11: No?
3:38
Speaker 1: No, right, no, okay, he's blue.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, Okay, then there's a good chance he's not breathing.
3:44
Speaker 8: I want you to get down.
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Speaker 9: Is he on the floor?
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah he is. Okay, do you see his chest
3:50
Speaker 1: rising at all?
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Speaker 2: He said?
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Speaker 1: Okay, do you.
3:55
Speaker 9: Know how to do CPR?
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Speaker 2: Do you want me to walk you through it?
4:04
Speaker 9: Is there somebody else there that can do PPR?
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Speaker 6: No?
4:08
Speaker 1: No, I walk joining me?
4:10
Speaker 2: Is Stone's mother, Sherry, miss Folts. What happened to Stone?
4:15
Speaker 4: Stone was in his sophomore year at blind Green State
4:18
Speaker 4: University in Ohio and he was had decided last minute
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Speaker 4: to join a fraternity. Through the process of joining the fraternity,
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Speaker 4: they were required to do several different I guess you
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Speaker 4: would call ritual's traditions and as we know now today,
4:36
Speaker 4: as we learn have learned over time, that's that's called grooming,
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Speaker 4: So they basically groom you into thinking these things are
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Speaker 4: okay and what you have to do in order to
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Speaker 4: join a fraternity. It ended up early March where the
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Speaker 4: big little event was taken place. It is an event
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Speaker 4: that reveals the big brother for the members joining the fraternity. Stone.
5:05
Speaker 4: He ended up going there that night and was taken
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Speaker 4: down into a basement at the fraternity house, and there
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Speaker 4: was seven other pledges that night, pledging to be in
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Speaker 4: that fraternity, and they tied a blindfold over their eyes,
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Speaker 4: walked them down the stairs to the basement and there
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Speaker 4: was really a loud heavy metal music playing, made them
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Speaker 4: very disoriented. Took them down, there was screaming yelling at him,
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Speaker 4: you know, and then they actually had them take off
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Speaker 4: their blindfold, and in front of them was standing their
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Speaker 4: big brother who had a bottle of liquor in their hand,
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Speaker 4: which they call the family bottle. It's basically passed down
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Speaker 4: as a tradition from each big brother's family bottle. And
6:01
Speaker 4: he was handed that bottle and he was coerced or
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Speaker 4: forced into drinking that entire bottle, and throughout the night,
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Speaker 4: which was only twenty minutes, he had finished that bottle
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Speaker 4: because his big brother was cheering him on and the
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Speaker 4: other big brothers were throwing out the other pledges drinks,
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Speaker 4: you know, trying to help them out, giving them a chaser,
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Speaker 4: and he ended up basically being incoherent. He had asked
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Speaker 4: to go home. They drug him up the stairs out.
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Speaker 4: Three of the members drove him back to his apartment.
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Speaker 4: They drug him up the stairs into his apartment, laid
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Speaker 4: him on the couch, backpacked him, and for one last enjoyment,
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Speaker 4: took a video of them and you know, said that
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Speaker 4: he was snoring, making fun of him, when actually he
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Speaker 4: was diasperating and dying right in front.
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Speaker 9: Of their eyes.
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Speaker 4: They then left him there and his roommate showed up.
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Speaker 4: We don't know when, but he didn't wasn't aware of
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Speaker 4: how much or if Stone had been drinking, but obviously
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Speaker 4: the sight of him noticed, you know, uh, he was.
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Speaker 4: He was in trouble. He ended up calling Stone's girlfriend,
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Speaker 4: who you heard on the nine one one call, Maddie.
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Speaker 4: Maddie ended up calling nine one one. Uh. You know,
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Speaker 4: there was talk about fear of retaliation and what the
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Speaker 4: furniturey Do would do if you know, Stone did survive
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Speaker 4: what they would do to him or uh the other
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Speaker 4: people within the apartment. And from there you're in the
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Speaker 4: nine one one call.
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Speaker 2: Miss Falts. I noticed your delivery. When you say what
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Speaker 2: happened to your boy? I meant asked so many times
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Speaker 2: what happened to my fiance that I can now recite
8:00
Speaker 2: it because I don't want to feel it. I don't
8:04
Speaker 2: want to think about what I'm saying. But I know
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Speaker 2: the story enough that I can recite it. Sometimes when
8:12
Speaker 2: people ask me, I go, well, that was a long
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Speaker 2: time ago, so I don't have to recite it again.
8:18
Speaker 2: How do you steal yourself to tell that story?
8:24
Speaker 4: I think you know to tell that story. I hear
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Speaker 4: the nine to one one call. You know often we
8:31
Speaker 4: actually play it in our presentations that we delivered to
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Speaker 4: high schools and universities. Just because it is an emotional
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Speaker 4: something to hear. I think people need to hear it.
8:45
Speaker 4: I think these young adults need to hear it because
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Speaker 4: this is real. To tell his story over and over,
8:54
Speaker 4: it is hard. It rips the band aid right off.
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Speaker 4: But I know that by telling his story, we can
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Speaker 4: hopefully to look for change or saving lies. And that's
9:03
Speaker 4: the promise that I made to Stone when I walked
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Speaker 4: in the icy room and saw all the tubes and
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Speaker 4: everything on him and you know, not breathing on his own.
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Speaker 4: We had a ventilator. I knew what was going on,
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Speaker 4: and I told him the one thing we could do
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Speaker 4: is to fight to make sure this does not happen
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Speaker 4: to any other family and to another student. And I guess,
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Speaker 4: and that's what I'm trying to do, is just retell
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Speaker 4: his story so that people understand this is real and
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Speaker 4: this is happening, and it has to be taken seriously,
9:35
Speaker 4: and things need to be done that are going to
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Speaker 4: take care of hazing once and for all.
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Speaker 2: Listen to Rix eight.
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Speaker 5: Elliott join Folks joined this fraternity to network for a
9:48
Speaker 5: resume building. He saw red flags that this wasn't good.
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Speaker 5: In that night, he was brought in. He was told
9:55
Speaker 5: to take his tie off, They blindfolded him, took him
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Speaker 5: down to a basement along with the other player, and
10:00
Speaker 5: forced them to drink a handle of alcohol before they
10:03
Speaker 5: were allowed to leave. Then the active members took stone
10:08
Speaker 5: Folts completely incapacitated stone Folts to his apartment and left
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Speaker 5: him there, left him on the couch, face down on
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Speaker 5: the couch by himself, and by the way, clear up
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Speaker 5: one quick thing. While that young woman was on the
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Speaker 5: nine to one one call, his roommate had come home.
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Speaker 5: He was a boy scout, he was performing CPR at
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Speaker 5: the time. But that's what they did. These actives forced
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Speaker 5: him to drink one hundred and fifty pound kid who
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Speaker 5: really didn't even have a long drinking history, and they
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Speaker 5: left him at the apartment all by himself, to slowly
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Speaker 5: die at the hospital hours later. His blood alcohol content
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Speaker 5: was zero point three nine.
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Speaker 2: Four that's a fifth of bourbon in twenty minutes on
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Speaker 2: a boy that had hardly ever even tasted alcohol. On
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Speaker 2: the heels of stone Faltse's death, now.
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Speaker 12: This he was taken to a remote area of the
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Speaker 12: county and at some point, by pre arrangement, people came
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Speaker 12: out of the woods, all dressed in black. They were
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Speaker 12: armed with what appeared to be at least one handgun
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Speaker 12: and at least one knife.
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Speaker 11: In Syracuse, New York, five underclassmen on the West Hill
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Speaker 11: High School lacrosse team are excited when older teammates invite
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Speaker 11: them to go to watch your rival schools lacrosse match
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Speaker 11: and dinner at McDonald's. Upperclassmen are not known for including
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Speaker 11: younger teammates and social events, and the boys see this
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Speaker 11: as an opportunity to be accepted by the older players
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Speaker 11: on the team.
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Speaker 12: The individual had a pillowcase placed over his head, he
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Speaker 12: was tied up and placed in the trunk of a car.
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Speaker 2: From our friends at Syracuse dot com, Miss Folds, does
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Speaker 2: it never end?
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Speaker 4: Unfortunately, it's not. It's I'm hearing more and more stories.
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Speaker 4: It's like I said earlier, it's heartbreaking. It's not ending.
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Speaker 4: It's it's so much more prominent in high schools and
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Speaker 4: we only hear about it when it gets reported. So,
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Speaker 4: you know, you just think about all the incidents that
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Speaker 4: are happening that are not even getting reported. It's it's
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Speaker 4: the number is outstanding and something needs to be done
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Speaker 4: about it. And I kudos to mister Fitzpatrick for doing
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Speaker 4: what he's doing. I think that's the number one thing
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Speaker 4: is we have to get these das and the judges
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Speaker 4: to understand and place a huge penalty against these these
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Speaker 4: students who are doing these acts. That need to understand that,
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Speaker 4: you know, lives are being taken from hazing, and it's
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Speaker 4: I just thank you for what he is doing. I
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Speaker 4: think it's very important. I think it starts there and
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Speaker 4: they need to be taken seriously. And that's the only
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Speaker 4: way we're gonna get hazing to end is if it's
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Speaker 4: taken seriously in our DA's and judges, as I said,
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Speaker 4: need to do it.
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Speaker 3: The night takes a turn for the young boys when
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Speaker 3: on the way home, the driver of the car suddenly
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Speaker 3: loses his way, pulling over to the side in a
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Speaker 3: secluded area. In what seems like a blink of an eye,
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Speaker 3: the boys are surrounded by masked assailants armed with knives
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Speaker 3: and possibly even a gun.
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Speaker 1: He wasn't lost. The driver pulled over intentionally for hazing. Hazing.
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Speaker 1: This is what happens. Listen.
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Speaker 12: He was taken to a remote area of the county
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Speaker 12: and at some point, by pre arrangement, people came out
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Speaker 12: of the woods, all dressed in black. They were armed
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Speaker 12: with what appeared to be at least one handgun and
13:47
Speaker 12: at least one knife. The individual had a pillowcase placed
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Speaker 12: over his head. He was tied up and placed in
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Speaker 12: the trunk of a car.
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Speaker 2: That from our friends at Syracuse dot com and then
14:01
Speaker 2: the District Attorney, William Fitzpatrick issues a stark warning.
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Speaker 12: You have forty eight hours to turn yourself into the Sheriff's.
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Speaker 1: Department, joining me an all star panel.
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Speaker 2: In addition to MISSUS Folks joining us, Mary Keeler is
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Speaker 2: joining US investigative reporter see in Why Central Media Group.
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Speaker 1: Mary, thank you for being with us. What happened.
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Speaker 7: What we know is that it was a serious criminal
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Speaker 7: hazing act that District Attorney Bill Fitzpatrick called hazing on
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Speaker 7: steroids when he started that press conference.
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Speaker 1: You just pulled a little bit of sound from there.
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Speaker 7: But we know that eleven upper classmen, we know at
14:38
Speaker 7: least four of them are eighteen.
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Speaker 1: From a source.
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Speaker 7: Close to the investigation, they put together a ruse that
14:45
Speaker 7: authorities say was maybe even practice.
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Speaker 1: Or a dry run.
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Speaker 7: Was done the Wednesday night before the April twenty fourth,
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Speaker 7: That was not last Thursday, but the Thursday before that.
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Speaker 7: They were going to have younger students go to a
15:00
Speaker 7: cross game with the upperclassmen, then go to McDonald's for dinner.
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Speaker 7: That was quickly found out to be a ruse. They
15:07
Speaker 7: were tied at the hands, they had a pillowcase placed
15:10
Speaker 7: over their head. They were placed in a trunk of
15:13
Speaker 7: a car driven to a remote part of Onondaga County
15:17
Speaker 7: and it's there. We're told that many other members of
15:20
Speaker 7: the team are there with black clothing. They're coming out
15:23
Speaker 7: of a wooded area in what appears to be in
15:27
Speaker 7: a gun and a knife, and they're all wearing black,
15:29
Speaker 7: black clothing. And we also know that this whole ordeal
15:34
Speaker 7: was videotape, that there was a there are as a
15:37
Speaker 7: video at least that authorities have seen that has been circulating.
15:40
Speaker 7: But what we do know is that this could have
15:42
Speaker 7: gone a lot worse. We just confirmed with the district
15:46
Speaker 7: attorney before I joined this program that he believes it
15:50
Speaker 7: based on interviews with investigators for people who have come in,
15:54
Speaker 7: that it was an airsoft gun that was used. But
15:56
Speaker 7: his point being that if Amber of Law Enforcement that
16:01
Speaker 7: was on duty pulled over or drove by that scene
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Speaker 7: in that remote part of the county with some sort
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Speaker 7: of weapon drawn, whether it be real or fake, it
16:10
Speaker 7: could have been a completely different scenario.
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Speaker 2: Joining us now, in addition to Mary Keeler and Sheer
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Speaker 2: Fols is a renowned attorney in this field representing victims families.
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Speaker 2: David Biyonki joining US trial lawyer Stuart Tillman, Fox, Beyonki,
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Speaker 2: and Kaine.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
16:29
Speaker 2: Did you just hear the description and this was rehearsed.
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Speaker 2: There's no way really to argue this was hazing that
16:36
Speaker 2: got out of hand.
16:37
Speaker 1: This was rehearsed.
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Speaker 13: Nancy, You're right, it was rehearsed, and it's unimaginable that
16:45
Speaker 13: this still goes on.
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Speaker 6: But let me just give you my perspective on this.
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Speaker 13: I've been involved in these hazing cases for maybe twenty
16:54
Speaker 13: five years or so, and I've seen all kinds of
16:57
Speaker 13: bad things. At this point in time, in the year
17:01
Speaker 13: twenty twenty five, almost every state in the country has
17:05
Speaker 13: an anti hazing law, Every major university has an anti
17:09
Speaker 13: hazing policy, every major fraternity and sorority has an anti
17:13
Speaker 13: hazing policy. Yet it continues. So what we're doing to
17:18
Speaker 13: try to stop it is not working. But you remember
17:22
Speaker 13: six years ago at Cornell, Antonio Sianalis died after a
17:27
Speaker 13: night of hazing and the next day they found his
17:29
Speaker 13: body at the bottom of a gorge.
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Speaker 10: And despite the fact that it was hazing on steroids
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Speaker 10: in that case, also also in the state of New York,
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Speaker 10: no criminal charges were ever filed against anybody. So what
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Speaker 10: kind of a message does that sound? So we've got
17:44
Speaker 10: together a very.
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Speaker 2: Very weak message, and I'm going to throw this to
17:49
Speaker 2: our shrink. Joining us clinical forensic psychologist, visiting scholar, Boston
17:55
Speaker 2: College and author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence
17:59
Speaker 2: of Modern Violent Crime. Joining us, doctor Gary Bracato, Doctor Bricado,
18:04
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. What I don't understand
18:08
Speaker 2: is why we keep sugarcoating this to call it hazing incident.
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Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Bricatto, I'm going to do something with.
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Speaker 2: You that no lawyer is allowed to do with a
18:17
Speaker 2: jury and a criminal prosecution, and that is asked you
18:22
Speaker 2: to put yourself in the shoes of the victim. You
18:26
Speaker 2: just heard Sherry Foltz describe what was done to her son,
18:30
Speaker 2: left there and mocked videoed as he was dying. Now,
18:37
Speaker 2: in the case in Chief, you have boys assailed with
18:43
Speaker 2: hoods put over their heads, hoods, black hoods put over
18:48
Speaker 2: their heads, put in car trunks.
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Speaker 1: What if that happened to you?
18:52
Speaker 2: What if the worst thing that happened to the defendant
18:56
Speaker 2: that did that to you was that he couldn't go
19:00
Speaker 2: to work for six months? Really, because that's what the
19:06
Speaker 2: penalty is, Doctor Precanto.
19:08
Speaker 14: No, it's it's awful what I find so especially horrifying
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Speaker 14: about hazing cases is that they are a perversion of
19:17
Speaker 14: the idea of seeking affiliation, closeness, of family like connection
19:21
Speaker 14: with a group of people. And of course the idea
19:26
Speaker 14: is to break down the will the morality of an individual,
19:31
Speaker 14: so they basically will do whatever it is that you
19:33
Speaker 14: want them to do. You groom them to do that.
19:35
Speaker 14: It's very similar to what you see in cults or
19:39
Speaker 14: abusive relationships, things like that. And of course in those
19:42
Speaker 14: groups there are going to be a mixture of people
19:45
Speaker 14: who are seeking that kind of bond and who are afraid.
19:48
Speaker 14: The greater the fear, the more likely you are to
19:51
Speaker 14: create a cohesive bond like that. That's an ancient thing
19:55
Speaker 14: that happens to human beings.
19:58
Speaker 2: You know what all of this is, which is running
20:01
Speaker 2: by like a stream. The penalty, the penalty for what
20:08
Speaker 2: they did. You just heard one moment ago David Biyonki,
20:13
Speaker 2: the lawyer, state that one hazing victim was found at
20:18
Speaker 2: the bottom of a gorge dead and there were no charges.
20:23
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, listen to this, doctor.
20:26
Speaker 11: Players and parents of the varsity West Hill High School
20:28
Speaker 11: lacrosse team are informed by the school district. Their season
20:32
Speaker 11: is officially over. The reason given was not just the
20:35
Speaker 11: hazing incident, but the increased media attention and concerns that
20:38
Speaker 11: other teams would not want to play against West Hill.
20:41
Speaker 1: The season is over.
20:45
Speaker 2: That's the punishment that the lacrosse season is over.
20:52
Speaker 6: No and no.
20:59
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace hazing.
21:05
Speaker 2: In other words, murder, kidnapping, aggravator salt is not going
21:12
Speaker 2: to end.
21:14
Speaker 1: If the worst that happens is the lacrosse season is over,
21:17
Speaker 1: boo oo.
21:18
Speaker 4: And you read where parents are upset about this, and
21:21
Speaker 4: it's like, but you don't understand what that victim is
21:25
Speaker 4: going to face potentially for the rest of his life.
21:28
Speaker 4: You know, that is going to haunt him. He is
21:31
Speaker 4: going to have mental mental health issues, probably for the
21:36
Speaker 4: rest of his life. I don't think parents and the
21:41
Speaker 4: staff of these high schools understand the severity that is causing.
21:46
Speaker 4: You know, they just say that these are pranks, or
21:49
Speaker 4: you know, it's not to be meant to be harmful,
21:51
Speaker 4: or it's just you know, unsportsmanlike conduct. These things need
21:57
Speaker 4: to be taken seriously, and there needs to be churches
21:59
Speaker 4: pressed and it's the only way. If there's several of
22:03
Speaker 4: them that are eighteen, they need to be tried as adults.
22:05
Speaker 4: It needs to be taken further, otherwise it's just going
22:08
Speaker 4: to continue to happen.
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Speaker 15: Outnumbered eleven to one, the boy's hands are tied in
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Speaker 15: a pillowcase is placed over his head before he has
22:15
Speaker 15: thrown into the trunk of a car at knife point.
22:18
Speaker 15: The kidnappers taught the boy as they drive to another
22:20
Speaker 15: secluded wooded area of the counting and dump him on
22:23
Speaker 15: the ground a nightmare. As the boy has left alone
22:26
Speaker 15: in feared for his life.
22:27
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan is joining me, renowned professor forensic Jacksonville
22:31
Speaker 2: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon,
22:35
Speaker 2: and now star of hit podcast Body Bags with Joe
22:39
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, but for my purposes. He is a death
22:44
Speaker 2: investigator who has investigated literally thousands of death scenes. Just
22:50
Speaker 2: got Morgan by putting a hood over a young boy
22:55
Speaker 2: or anybody's face, a hood securing it around their.
23:01
Speaker 1: Over their nose, over their mouth.
23:03
Speaker 2: I mean, think of tot Mom's case Kelly Anthony, where
23:08
Speaker 2: Kelly's nose and mouth were covered in duct tape. Okay,
23:13
Speaker 2: think of the most recent case that you and I covered,
23:16
Speaker 2: Little Miranda Corsetti, where she had something put over her head.
23:22
Speaker 2: The dangers of putting a hood as in this case
23:26
Speaker 2: over anyone's had much less and unsuspected high school boy
23:30
Speaker 2: and throwing them in the trunk. What happens, of course tragedy,
23:35
Speaker 2: just Scott, what happens when someone is hooded and thrown.
23:38
Speaker 1: In a trunk?
23:39
Speaker 8: Well, the first thing that happens, Nancy, is the fact
23:41
Speaker 8: that you're putting this person in the position of suffering
23:45
Speaker 8: from severe sensory deprivation. And when that means that they
23:50
Speaker 8: have they're completely disoriented. And it's.
23:55
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, Jessicott, mar you're the death investigator focused
23:59
Speaker 2: on on deat h death when you have a hood
24:04
Speaker 2: or a covering.
24:05
Speaker 1: Over your nose and mouth.
24:06
Speaker 2: I just gave you two examples, Kelly Anthony and we're
24:12
Speaker 2: Rando Corsetti. Two examples. Their faces were covered, they died.
24:16
Speaker 2: Can we talk about being disoriented at the end? People
24:21
Speaker 2: died just gone with coverings.
24:24
Speaker 1: Over their face.
24:25
Speaker 8: So it's the important The important part of this names
24:28
Speaker 8: that I was trying to get at is the fact
24:30
Speaker 8: that they begin to shallow breathe, and if if an
24:34
Speaker 8: individual is using a bag or a hood. They're also
24:38
Speaker 8: they're shallow breathing, and then it's not going to be
24:41
Speaker 8: porous perhaps, and so their oxygen, their oxygen is greatly reduced.
24:46
Speaker 8: You talk about binding of hands, that they're sequestered in
24:50
Speaker 8: a dark space and then they're set out and they
24:53
Speaker 8: have no way of being able to take care of themselves,
24:56
Speaker 8: and so that fear will cause an adrenaline spike in them, Nancy.
25:01
Speaker 8: And many times an individual at shallow breathe this can
25:04
Speaker 8: actually lead to cardiospart or respiratory arrest. That was the
25:08
Speaker 8: point I was trying to make. And that have no
25:12
Speaker 8: idea as to what might happen to them. You can
25:15
Speaker 8: imagine some of the thoughts that are running through their mind.
25:17
Speaker 8: Am I going to be beaten to death? Am I
25:19
Speaker 8: going to be abandoned? Is it cold? Am I going
25:22
Speaker 8: to be subjected to this? All these questions are rolling
25:24
Speaker 8: through their mind, and all the while they're anxious, and
25:28
Speaker 8: so the shallow breeze and they can't breede. That's one
25:31
Speaker 8: of the things that happens that brings about death in
25:33
Speaker 8: cases like this. Nancy.
25:34
Speaker 2: You know what, Joe Scott, You're right. So the shallow
25:38
Speaker 2: breathing when you're, as you say, disori and afraid. How
25:41
Speaker 2: does that lead to asphyxiation?
25:43
Speaker 8: Well, the airway is blocked and if you're shallow breathing,
25:46
Speaker 8: or it's compromised. We won't say blocked, but it is
25:50
Speaker 8: greatly compromised, and so the individual can actually go into
25:53
Speaker 8: a cardiac arrest as a result of that. There's no
25:57
Speaker 8: here's the problem. You have no way of understanding what
26:02
Speaker 8: an individual's anatomy and physiology is. We're all predisposed to
26:06
Speaker 8: certain types of responses in our body. So this young man.
26:11
Speaker 6: He's a kid.
26:13
Speaker 8: You have no idea the effects that are happening on
26:16
Speaker 8: his body specific that are specific to him. It's kind
26:19
Speaker 8: of like these alcohol poisoning cases where you have individuals
26:23
Speaker 8: that are forced to drink copious amounts of alcohol. Okay,
26:27
Speaker 8: you know, we commonly think that point four is lethal range,
26:32
Speaker 8: and it generally is, but if somebody has a tolerance
26:36
Speaker 8: for this sort of thing, they can go above that.
26:39
Speaker 8: And I've actually seen that happen in my career. But
26:43
Speaker 8: it impacts the individual very specific to them. So you
26:48
Speaker 8: don't know what you're doing to this child, and he
26:52
Speaker 8: is a child when you take him out here and
26:54
Speaker 8: abandon him.
26:55
Speaker 2: A hazing prank goes horribly wrong. To Barry Hudginson, joining
27:01
Speaker 2: us twenty six years in LA law enforcement, now owner,
27:06
Speaker 2: chief investigator, Barry and associates, Barry, thank you for being
27:10
Speaker 2: with us. What I don't understand is when you throw
27:14
Speaker 2: a hood, a black hood, over a boy's head, force him,
27:19
Speaker 2: tie his hands, and force him into a trunk, why
27:24
Speaker 2: wouldn't there be charges of kidnapping? And in the other
27:27
Speaker 2: case we've discussed, why not murder charges?
27:31
Speaker 1: Why?
27:32
Speaker 6: Well?
27:32
Speaker 16: The answer, first of all, let me say to you
27:34
Speaker 16: everybody that's listening, there's a very distinct difference between a
27:38
Speaker 16: prank and a felon, and what these guys did is
27:43
Speaker 16: an absolute felony.
27:44
Speaker 14: I mean, even if it would have been.
27:45
Speaker 16: A toy gun, as long as that person believes and
27:47
Speaker 16: you know this is to prosecute, as long as that
27:50
Speaker 16: person believes that it's a real gun, and it can
27:52
Speaker 16: be a toy gun, the laws the same. It's an
27:55
Speaker 16: imminent threat. They believe it's an eminent threat, so they're
27:57
Speaker 16: supposed to act according lander's the letter of law. Why
28:00
Speaker 16: this hasn't been pursued nationwide as an actual crime is
28:07
Speaker 16: beyond me. Because it's well beyond that, and the schools
28:10
Speaker 16: aren't doing anything about it. They don't want their names
28:12
Speaker 16: to be sullied.
28:14
Speaker 2: Well, it's not just the schools, Barry, it's not just
28:17
Speaker 2: the schools. It's law enforcement. It's prosecutors all across the
28:22
Speaker 2: country going light on hazing incidents. So they keep happening.
28:26
Speaker 2: To David Beyonke joining me, high profile trial lawyer who
28:30
Speaker 2: is America's leading hazing lawyer. David, you mentioned the case
28:37
Speaker 2: of a hazing victim found at the bottom of a gorge.
28:42
Speaker 1: We always hear the big lead up.
28:45
Speaker 2: Turn yourself in in forty eight hours or else. But
28:48
Speaker 2: it's what happens after that. The purps are either not
28:53
Speaker 2: treated as adults, of course we all know juveniles can't
28:57
Speaker 2: be tried as adults, or they're evan like sentences. How
29:02
Speaker 2: often in a case like this, even when there is
29:04
Speaker 2: a death, David Biyanci, do you see a murder charge? Look,
29:09
Speaker 2: I can't hold a gun to your face and pull
29:12
Speaker 2: the trigger and when you're dead, I go, oh, I
29:15
Speaker 2: just meant to scare him.
29:17
Speaker 1: That's not the letter of the law. David, No, no, Nancy,
29:20
Speaker 1: it's not.
29:21
Speaker 13: And to answer your question, how many times have I
29:23
Speaker 13: seen a murder charge where someone dies in hazing.
29:26
Speaker 8: Never, I can tell you never.
29:28
Speaker 17: And in many of the instances, I don't see any charges.
29:32
Speaker 17: I come back to Antonio Sialis at Cornell twenty nineteen,
29:36
Speaker 17: a very carefully orchestrated night of hazing, and the next
29:40
Speaker 17: day he's found dead at the bottom of a gorge.
29:43
Speaker 17: Not a single criminal charge filed. I reached out to
29:45
Speaker 17: the prosecutor at Thompson County, spoke to the office, laid
29:49
Speaker 17: out all the evidence about why they should bring the charges.
29:52
Speaker 17: They never filed a single charge, and the universities go
29:57
Speaker 17: light on these guys to participate. It just leads to
30:01
Speaker 17: the same thing over and over again. It doesn't curtail
30:04
Speaker 17: the conduct. And I don't care how many laws you pass, well,
30:07
Speaker 17: how many seminars they have to go to.
30:09
Speaker 10: It's not enough.
30:16
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
30:22
Speaker 3: His wrists and hands are bound and a pillowcase thrown
30:25
Speaker 3: over his head as he's stuffed into the trunk of
30:27
Speaker 3: a car. The mass men drive and dump the boy
30:30
Speaker 3: at another secluded area as they taunt and mock the underclassmen.
30:34
Speaker 1: I want you to hear about the case of Danny.
30:38
Speaker 13: Listen, Danny Santully is still unable to speak. He has
30:43
Speaker 13: massive brain damage. He's lost his eyesight, he's blind, and
30:47
Speaker 13: he cannot walk.
30:48
Speaker 10: They got all these pledges to come to the fraternity house.
30:53
Speaker 10: They all had to take off their shirts. They then
30:56
Speaker 10: were all blind told that this is all on video.
30:59
Speaker 10: You don't have to trust what I'm telling you. It's
31:00
Speaker 10: all on surveillance video. They then paraded them down into
31:04
Speaker 10: the basement and down there they met their dad and
31:07
Speaker 10: they removed their blindfolds. They were given their bottle, their
31:10
Speaker 10: family bottle to alcohol. Many of them then had the
31:13
Speaker 10: bottle taped to their hand. They then paraded upstairs with
31:17
Speaker 10: the bottle tape to their hand and then started to
31:20
Speaker 10: drink with the alcohol that was spread out around the house.
31:22
Speaker 2: Reports eyewitnesses relate that a funnel a funnel was actually
31:30
Speaker 2: put shoved into Danny's mouth.
31:34
Speaker 10: WebStar comes along, puts a tube in his mouth with
31:36
Speaker 10: a funnel, pour his beer down his throat. After he
31:38
Speaker 10: had consumed about half the bottle of alcohol, and approximately
31:42
Speaker 10: twenty minutes later, while Danny is still out in the
31:44
Speaker 10: courtyard with maybe one hundred pledges and trap members, you
31:50
Speaker 10: can see Danny start to wabble and then he collapses.
31:53
Speaker 10: You see him fall backwards over a piece of furniture
31:56
Speaker 10: and onto the ground. They then pick them up. They
32:00
Speaker 10: carry him into the house and they put him in
32:02
Speaker 10: a TV room where they have couches, and a couple
32:05
Speaker 10: of guys bring him in and they PLoP them down
32:07
Speaker 10: on the couch and he's still alive. He's moving around,
32:12
Speaker 10: but you can tell he's in distress. And more so
32:15
Speaker 10: now Danny is totally left alone. He's now flat on
32:18
Speaker 10: the couch. He slides off the couch with his face
32:21
Speaker 10: planted on the floor and his feet on the couch,
32:23
Speaker 10: and he's not moving at all. They see that he's
32:27
Speaker 10: unresponsible on the couch and they think, oh my god.
32:29
Speaker 8: Maybe he's dead.
32:31
Speaker 10: And they go to pick him up, and he's having
32:33
Speaker 10: a hard time picking Danny up. So they got some
32:35
Speaker 10: big guy to pick him up and they scoop him
32:38
Speaker 10: up off the couch and they're not going to call
32:40
Speaker 10: nine to one one, and they're holding him upside down,
32:43
Speaker 10: if you can picture such a thing. And as they're
32:45
Speaker 10: getting to the exit door, they drop him on his
32:47
Speaker 10: head and then they have to get him back up
32:50
Speaker 10: again and they carry him outside, put him in the car.
32:53
Speaker 10: He's now technically dead. They get him over to the hospital,
32:58
Speaker 10: to the er somebody can twenty hours from the eer,
33:01
Speaker 10: they do CPR and then restart as hard.
33:03
Speaker 2: Oh my stage, does it never end? David beyond you?
33:06
Speaker 2: What happened to Danny.
33:08
Speaker 13: Danny Santulli at the University of Missouri is the worst
33:13
Speaker 13: fraternity hazing injury where a victim lived in the history
33:17
Speaker 13: of the United States. You cannot be more seriously injured
33:21
Speaker 13: than the injuries that Danny has. He is alive today,
33:25
Speaker 13: being taken care of by his parents. That's their choice,
33:28
Speaker 13: in their home. Again their choice, and his condition is
33:33
Speaker 13: unchanged today. He still is blind, can't walk, can't speak,
33:37
Speaker 13: will never be able to take care of himself, all
33:40
Speaker 13: because he went through a hazing incident that's been repeated
33:45
Speaker 13: hundreds of times around the United States over many years,
33:48
Speaker 13: the passing of the family bottle of alcohol, and every
33:52
Speaker 13: time it happens, everybody says, we're going to make sure
33:56
Speaker 13: this never happens again, and it does happen again because
34:00
Speaker 13: we're not doing the right things to stop it.
34:03
Speaker 11: When Robert Champion was experiencing a ritual hazing at Florida
34:06
Speaker 11: A and M. At least eighteen band members were present.
34:09
Speaker 11: Band members described a chaotic and violet ritual called crossing
34:13
Speaker 11: bus se. The band buses parked behind an Orlando hotel
34:17
Speaker 11: after a game and Champion has to push his way
34:19
Speaker 11: from the front of the bus to the back with
34:21
Speaker 11: roughly twenty people punching, kicking, and hitting him with drum mallets.
34:28
Speaker 9: Was he like shaking or anything like that part of it? Oh? Yeah,
34:31
Speaker 9: he wasn't.
34:31
Speaker 6: He wasn't shaking.
34:33
Speaker 5: I don't know how he would tug and then you
34:36
Speaker 5: know he was.
34:38
Speaker 10: He was.
34:39
Speaker 5: He was shaking it and.
34:41
Speaker 15: Not doing anything.
34:42
Speaker 1: Okay, he's totally lying.
34:45
Speaker 2: The boy was not just sitting there, this young man,
34:52
Speaker 2: Robert Champion, for peace sake, he was a member of
34:56
Speaker 2: the band.
34:57
Speaker 1: The band I mean data BEYONKEI.
35:01
Speaker 2: How often do you think of the school band turning
35:05
Speaker 2: violent and killing a band member?
35:07
Speaker 9: Never?
35:09
Speaker 2: Maybe lacrosse, maybe football, but the band for Pete Satan Beyonki.
35:13
Speaker 6: No, No, you're right, hardly ever.
35:14
Speaker 2: Doctor Bricado, even in the band Fatal Hazy.
35:20
Speaker 14: Unfortunately, in any group of people where there are people
35:23
Speaker 14: that are trying to come together under the umbrella of
35:26
Speaker 14: you know, group, brotherhood, the sisterhood, whatever, it can bring
35:30
Speaker 14: out this awful quality in people where some sadistic person
35:36
Speaker 14: who wants you to depend upon them convinces other people
35:40
Speaker 14: in the group to basically participate in the process of
35:44
Speaker 14: breaking these people, so that in the name of cohesion,
35:48
Speaker 14: you give up your will and you're abused, and it
35:51
Speaker 14: is horrendous. And I have to tell you, Nancy, I
35:54
Speaker 14: think it's wonderful that you're calling it out because it
35:56
Speaker 14: is not properly prosecuted. Often I think because it's.
36:00
Speaker 2: Not it's not darger bricado, and there's no nice way
36:04
Speaker 2: to say it. We keep calling it hazing. This is
36:07
Speaker 2: an aggravated assault. The other cases are murder. And what
36:11
Speaker 2: I don't understand to Joe Scott Morgan, who is describing
36:15
Speaker 2: what actually happens when you have a hood put over
36:17
Speaker 2: your head, your hands are bound, you're breathing shallow lee,
36:21
Speaker 2: and you're thrown.
36:22
Speaker 1: In the trunk of a car.
36:24
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, if this happened to an adult, not
36:29
Speaker 2: a child, these would be murder and kidnapping charges. As
36:34
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, Joe Scott, you have everybody on
36:36
Speaker 2: this panel is going to know this nine one one
36:39
Speaker 2: caller is lying about what happened to this young man,
36:43
Speaker 2: the band member, Robert Champion. Listen to this, Joe Scott,
36:45
Speaker 2: Are you with him right now?
36:47
Speaker 1: I'm with him?
36:48
Speaker 10: Maam?
36:48
Speaker 9: You got okay?
36:50
Speaker 10: Okay?
36:51
Speaker 9: Well I want to lay him on the floor. Be
36:53
Speaker 9: on the floor.
36:53
Speaker 6: Okay, on the floor.
36:55
Speaker 9: Okay. Is there anything under him? No? No man looking
37:00
Speaker 9: on them? Okay? Is there an ad available?
37:03
Speaker 2: Joe Scott, Morgan and ad running get one in the hotel.
37:08
Speaker 1: It's too late for that. Robert is dead.
37:10
Speaker 2: And that nine one one caller is lying that Robert,
37:14
Speaker 2: the little boy on the band, was just sitting there
37:17
Speaker 2: and suddenly died.
37:20
Speaker 1: That's a lie.
37:21
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a load of crap. And you know, way
37:24
Speaker 8: they're way past this idea that they're going to be
37:26
Speaker 8: able to disfigulate this young man. Right now, he's just
37:29
Speaker 8: trying to cover his tracks. Did you hear kind of
37:31
Speaker 8: how confused he was, not really confused. He's trying to
37:34
Speaker 8: get his damn story straight at this point in Top And.
37:37
Speaker 6: The thing about it means he is that when mister
37:40
Speaker 6: Champion died, there was a whole bust full of witnesses
37:46
Speaker 6: and also participants that were egging this thing on.
37:51
Speaker 2: You know what, Joe Scott, I'm so glad you said
37:53
Speaker 2: that same thing here. And Mary Keeler, what are the
37:58
Speaker 2: charges in the current case.
38:01
Speaker 7: So, because all eleven of those players that have turned
38:05
Speaker 7: themselves in itselves in within that forty eight hour window,
38:09
Speaker 7: that amnesty window ultimatum that the district attorney gave last Tuesday,
38:14
Speaker 7: what they were all given was an appearance ticket for
38:17
Speaker 7: unlawful imprisonment. Imprisonment that is a Class A misdemeanor.
38:21
Speaker 1: Are any of them in jail?
38:23
Speaker 2: Let me make it, pull it down. Are any of
38:26
Speaker 2: them in jail? Okay to Sherry Folds. You heard Mary Keeler,
38:30
Speaker 2: None of them are in jail. That was some ultimatum.
38:36
Speaker 2: It's never going to end unless we crack down and
38:40
Speaker 2: sentence these perps to jail time.
38:44
Speaker 1: Do I want to see a seventeen or eighteen year
38:46
Speaker 1: old go to jail.
38:48
Speaker 2: No, But what I don't want to see even more
38:52
Speaker 2: is another dead child over hazing.
38:56
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's just so distrating. And I think until staff
39:04
Speaker 4: of these high schools and parents starts with the parents
39:09
Speaker 4: take this seriously, it's not going to change. We can
39:15
Speaker 4: do as much education.
39:16
Speaker 2: As When you say that, Sherry Foults, that means another mother,
39:22
Speaker 2: another mother like you, is going to get that phone
39:26
Speaker 2: call another mother. Do you know, Sherry, that my children
39:31
Speaker 2: are looking at colleges right now, and every time we
39:35
Speaker 2: go look at a college, I think about Stone, I
39:41
Speaker 2: think about Timothy, I think about Robert Champion. It just
39:47
Speaker 2: nothing is changing, Sherry, Nothing is changing.
39:51
Speaker 1: It's not.
39:52
Speaker 4: And it's very frustrating from the parents who have to
39:56
Speaker 4: continue to watch this, who've lost their child from hazing.
40:01
Speaker 4: And you know, we send our kids off. I sent
40:03
Speaker 4: Stone off to college. You know, he was considered an adult,
40:08
Speaker 4: and you expect that the university, the university president, all
40:13
Speaker 4: the faculty, you're going to take care of them, that
40:15
Speaker 4: they're doing what they're supposed to do in their jobs
40:17
Speaker 4: and preventing this this type of tragedy. And unfortunately, and how.
40:23
Speaker 2: Do you keep from just running out in the street
40:27
Speaker 2: and screaming your head off every day?
40:30
Speaker 4: It's it's definitely it's mental. I've learned to, you know,
40:38
Speaker 4: just deal with it and continue to to do as
40:41
Speaker 4: many speaking engagements that we can. We're fighting to push
40:47
Speaker 4: more laws, you know, and and you know the federal
40:51
Speaker 4: law has passed this previous uh last October November. And
40:58
Speaker 4: you know, those types of laws being passed if we
41:00
Speaker 4: can't enforce them because of the federal law is a
41:03
Speaker 4: transparency Act and more transparency is being pushed pushed upon hazing.
41:11
Speaker 4: But if these laws are not being enforced, it's not
41:14
Speaker 4: going to do any good.
41:16
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the
41:19
Speaker 2: current hazing incident, dial three one five four three five
41:26
Speaker 2: three zero four four. We remember American Hero Sergeant Lionel Martinez, Junior,
41:32
Speaker 2: Almo College, PD, Texas, twenty one years in law enforcement,
41:38
Speaker 2: leaving behind wife turned widow, Claudia, children Liza, Lionel, Kimberly, Kathleen,
41:46
Speaker 2: and Lacy. American Hero Sergeant Lionel Martinez Junior, Nancy Grace
41:53
Speaker 2: signing off goodbye friend B