Latest / All Mom Does Podcast with Julie Lyles Carr / Biblical Masculinity with Jennifer Jehl

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Biblical Masculinity with Jennifer Jehl · All Mom Does Podcast with Julie Lyles Carr

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Purposely, your life, God's purpose. More podcasts at Purposely.com.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: What Jesus calls us to, calls men to be is
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: something that I like to use as the word meekness. Meekness,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: it's not weakness. It's incredible strength. It's incredible emotional intelligence.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: It's self-control. It's kindness. It's compassion. It's boundaries and standards.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: When a man truly embodies those things, the people around him,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: the children, the his wife, like.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: They just flourish. Hey friend, I'm so glad you're here.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: This is the all mom does podcast, part of the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: purposely podcast network.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: And we are here to help equip you, encourage you,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: challenge you, and all the things that are going on
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: in your life from kids to work, to marriage, to faith,
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: all of it.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: We are in the last.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Few episodes of season nine before we roll into season 10.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: And I've got to tell you, this has been one
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: of my favorite seasons. We have had some of the
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: most interesting, fascinating people on. I have personally learned so much.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: I hope that you have too. And today, oh, this
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: is gonna be a good one. I already know I
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: got to have the honor of being on this person's
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: show on LinkedIn, her live stream, which is really fascinating.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: She is in the top 1% of LinkedIn creators. And
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: when we unpack The topic that she is known for,
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: the expertise that she has, you are going to be
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: leaning in. I can promise you that. So I would
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: love to welcome to the show today, Jennifer Yale. Jen,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: thanks so much for being with me.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me, Julie.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. I loved having you on my
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: show as well. I think so many people got a
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: lot out of what you were saying, your experiences as
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: a mom, as, you know, in corporate world, everything was
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: so beneficial to my viewers.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So thank you for that. Oh, absolutely.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: I had an absolute ball and your community could not
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: be more welcoming and they were just, it was exceptional.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: What a, what a fantastic experience. So thanks for having me.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Well, Hey, tell the audience who you are, where you live,
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: the kids, the pets, the season of life, all the things.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm Jennifer.
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  Speaker 2: So I, First of all, I'm a biblical masculinity coach,
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  Speaker 2: and that's my mission in life is to kind of
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: bring back order and inspire men and families and women,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: of course, also, but inspire men, especially to live in
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: the way that God designed them to be, especially as
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: head of the household and really embodying the characteristics of
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Jesus in every single thing that they do and running
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: their homes and leading their wives accordingly as he taught
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  Speaker 2: us to do.
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  Speaker 1: So that is my number one mission. I am a
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: mom of three.
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  Speaker 2: I have a 19-year-old girl, 17-year-old girl, and a 12-year-old
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: special needs little boy. They are definitely the lights of
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: my life. And I also am stepping into a new
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: venture here soon in Austin as the president of C-Suite
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: for Christ, which is a company that is designed to
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  Speaker 2: spread the world in Christ and inspire people to be
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: bold in the workplace, in their businesses, in speaking about Christ.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: So that's what I have going on. That's so exciting. Yeah.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: And I'm excited to get you down here to Austin
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  Speaker 3: as soon as possible. So that will be a lot
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: of fun. Well, I am so fascinated by the work
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: you do. And when I had the opportunity to meet
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: your online community, because We have been through a season,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: and I think it's one that has been deeply needed,
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: where we have had a lot of focus, particularly in
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: the faith vertical, on helping women say, hey.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: We see you.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: We know there's a lot of invisible labor. We know
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: there are times that you are probably being taken for
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: granted or you aren't being seen, that you need to
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: be heard. And we've spent a lot of time in
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  Speaker 3: women's spaces making sure that we are infusing in women
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  Speaker 3: the The incredible message that Jesus has for all of us,
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  Speaker 3: that we are of great worth, that we are precious
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  Speaker 3: to him, that we have a role to play, that
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  Speaker 3: he has a purpose for us in each of our lives,
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  Speaker 3: even in those long days where it feels like all
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  Speaker 3: we're getting done is the laundry so that more laundry
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  Speaker 3: can be produced, so that more laundry.
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  Speaker 1: Can be done.
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  Speaker 3: So we've lived there and I get that. And there
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  Speaker 3: are any number of books and podcasts like this one
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  Speaker 3: and on and on that have to do with encouraging women.
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  Speaker 1: And so when I also.
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  Speaker 3: Was thinking about that part of that, to some degree,
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  Speaker 3: has been calling men to account, sometimes talking about the
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  Speaker 3: bad players that we experience. And I know certainly for
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: myself as an eldest daughter, an older sister of two brothers,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I don't have any sisters. And then as a mom
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  Speaker 3: of three sons, as a wife to Mike, you know what?
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  Speaker 3: I was starting to get a little weary sometimes. of
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: a lot of the elbow to the gut that a
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  Speaker 3: lot of men were experiencing as we were trying to
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  Speaker 3: encourage women.
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  Speaker 1: There was a lot that was being said against men.
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  Speaker 3: Now here's where you fascinate me, Jennifer. I mean, on
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  Speaker 3: a lot of scales, but from a ministry business perspective,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: you took an incredible pivot. And while a lot of
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: us were talking directly to women, you came around the
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  Speaker 3: curve and said, Let's talk to some of these guys.
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  Speaker 3: Let's encourage these guys. Let's equip these guys. Let's give
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  Speaker 3: these guys some tools. So what was that path that
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  Speaker 3: that audience became the one that you began to focus
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  Speaker 3: on serving? Because that in many ways kind of feels
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  Speaker 3: counterintuitive in the culture we've been in, in this cultural moment.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: It sure does.
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  Speaker 2: And, you know, kind of in a general overview, kind
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: of based on what you said, let's take feminism, for example, um,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: don't worry, I'm not going to get political, but feminism
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: had the right idea, right? Like to inspire women, to
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  Speaker 2: empower them, to be, you know, noticed in, like you said,
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  Speaker 2: seen and heard.
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  Speaker 1: And that was great.
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  Speaker 2: But somewhere along the way, it did fail in the
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  Speaker 2: fact that it started like emasculating men, uh, breaking down
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: the family and all of these things that we see today. Um,
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  Speaker 2: I am all for women being very bold and seen
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  Speaker 2: and powerful creatures because we are, and we have so
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: much to give and we have so many people to
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: nurture and, you know, bring life into their life. Um,
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  Speaker 2: but men, so I have, I label myself as a
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: past toxic people pleaser. And what that looked like is
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: both in business and in personal relationships, I would get
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: myself into very bad situations.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Um, I just wanted to appease everybody. I couldn't say no.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Um, I therefore got into very abusive relationships. Um, and
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: so I could have easily become one of those people
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  Speaker 2: who doesn't like men, who hates men, who wants nothing
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  Speaker 2: to do with men. Um, and instead I kind of,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: as I got into my journey and especially my faith journey,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I've always been a lover of Christ. but he has
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: not always been my Lord. He's always been my savior,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: not my Lord. And as I got into that part
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: of the mission and read the word, and I actually
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: understood like, wait a second, if men are leading the
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  Speaker 2: right way, that expands a woman's world. That is so
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: protective of the woman. Like Jesus designed this so beautifully
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  Speaker 2: headship of a man, Submission of a wife to her husband.
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  Speaker 2: That is a beautiful thing because he is guiding her
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  Speaker 2: to the right places because his authority is in, is Jesus,
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  Speaker 2: you know?
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  Speaker 1: So he's following Jesus. She follows him and she can't
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  Speaker 1: go wrong.
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  Speaker 2: That's the true design of what that is supposed to
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  Speaker 2: look like. And so if you think about all these
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: men who have been emasculated, I mean, think about it.
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  Speaker 1: Like men are afraid to open doors for women anymore.
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  Speaker 2: Like something as simple as that, because it's, Who knows
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: what she's going to say to him? And so I
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: think in turn, that has led men to become very passive.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: You know, you hear things like toxic masculinity, which I
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: don't believe as a term that it actually exists because
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: there are people who are toxic and there are people
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: who are not toxic. But if you do think about
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: that term, there are two extremes there. You know, you
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: have your alpha male kind of cocky guy that you
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  Speaker 2: think about.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Or you have, you're very passive and both are very bad.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: What Jesus calls us to, calls men to be is
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: something that I like to use as the word meekness.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Meekness. It's not weakness.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: It's incredible strength. It's incredible emotional intelligence. It is the
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: capacity of all kinds of things that you keep inside.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: It's self-control. It's kindness. It's compassion. It's boundaries and standards.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: And when a man truly embodies those things, the people
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: around him, the children, his wife, like they just flourish
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: and getting people to understand that design is really important
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: When you first launched into talking about this, into developing
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: your channel on LinkedIn, when you started having people on
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  Speaker 3: and doing a live stream and on and on and on,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: What was some of the initial reception? Because again, you know,
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: we're in a period of time in which we have
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: such extremes in the ways in which we view relationships
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: between men and women and what women can do and
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: can't do. And if a man says this and all
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  Speaker 3: of those phrases that you just used, you know, the toxic, this,
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  Speaker 3: the toxic, that on and on and on, everybody pointing
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: fingers at each other. So what was the initial reception
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: and what did it surprise you that you found that
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  Speaker 3: there was this audience who was hungry to understand more
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: of what you were talking about.
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  Speaker 1: It did. You know, initially I was really.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So I'm also, despite being a toxic people pleaser, recovering,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: I am a very shy person. I'm an introvert as well.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: And so being so bold in those initial ways in
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: which I created content, the questions that I posed, the
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: things I was talking about, that was very scary.
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  Speaker 1: And I am also... I'm not so much anymore.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Cause I, I take, I take it a different way now,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: but I was very sensitive at the beginning. And so, yeah,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: of course I got all kinds of messages that were
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: full of the obvious questions. Like how could a woman
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: ever inspire or teach a man to be masculine, which
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: is not what I do. I, I give the tools,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I give the perspective, I go on biblical principle, but
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: those were the questions I was receiving. Um, you know,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: and then of course, from women, it's like, how could
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: you ever say anything like this? Like, why would you
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: dumb yourself down and devalue yourself? That's not what I'm
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: doing at all.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: So I did deal with, and I still deal with
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: those questions at times, but I think we are coming
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: to a point in culture where maybe all of this
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: stuff is turning around for a bit. And I mean,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I think we're seeing it in young people, especially, and
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: maybe you see this too, like like the 18 to
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: 25 year old crowd, like they're very Christian.
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  Speaker 1: They're very opposed to like.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Even things like sex before marriage and, um, drinking, like
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: it's a new kind of generation. And I think, you know,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I think it could be a really beautiful thing. Um,
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  Speaker 2: and so I, I just think it's being, I think
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: it's more accepted now than it was at the beginning.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Right. So you're finding even more resonance now than you
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: were maybe when you first started. I do find it
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: fascinating as a mom of three sons, obviously as a wife,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: I get why a lot of guys are stymied right
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: now as to what to do. And my youngest son
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: has started dating and he's just, he's an absolute sweetheart.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Of a guy.
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  Speaker 3: The thing that is fascinating to me is how floored
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: some of the young women he's beginning to take on dates,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: how floored they are that he plans dates, that he
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: meets someone and he says, hey, why don't we go
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: do this? And he absolutely wants their ideas and their input.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: This is not him saying, we're going to go do
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: this and we're going to do that. My husband and
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I have laughed. We're like, the world is.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Your oyster kid because he is truly one of the
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: most gentle, kind, never throw himself out there kind of guys.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: But even him simply saying, I would love to take
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: you for a cup of coffee is sort of like
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: revelatory right.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Now amongst a lot of his peers.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: The fact he's willing to do that, the fact he's
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: willing to go sit across a table face-to-face with someone
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: to get to know them better. Tell me a little
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: bit about where we're at when it comes to young
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: men today, not necessarily in marriage already, but in those
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: places where they are trying to figure out how to navigate,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: do I open the door?
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  Speaker 1: Do I not?
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  Speaker 3: In a culture that has not been dating and exploring
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: and getting to know people at a deeper level before
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: all kinds of other activities happen. So talk to me
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: about what you're seeing. Give me the landscape of where
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: we are today.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, I think that's wonderful that
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: your son is, is taking the initiative to be that, like,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I would consider that like leading that's like healthy leadership
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: of potential relationships.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: And I think women are, you know, as much as women.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Want to be hyper independent and not need anybody, I
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: think by design also, we were designed to, um, be
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: attracted to things like that. We want to the person that,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: that we end up being with, like, we want to
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: be able to see him as a leader. Why would
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: you not want to see him as a leader? Um,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: so I think the younger generation, is handling that better
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: than our generation did, which is sad to say, you know,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: you still see people in our generation who are, you know, 45,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: 50 years old and never been married, never had kids,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and they don't want any part of that really. And
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: maybe that's, you know, the way culture has taught them
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: that to be, you know, I can't remember the statistic.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: But I.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Think like, I think women are more in danger right
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: now than men. Men seem to be getting back on
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: track with God's design. I think women are still really
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: fighting that. And relationships seem to be, in all the generations,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: more like a who can win? Are you a risk
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: to me? Women especially see men as a risk. How
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: risky is this person if I choose to be with him?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: And that's a scary thing, I think, because that's not
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: what a relationship is supposed to be. We're supposed to
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: bring our pieces. They were supposed to bring their pieces. And,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm not sure if that answers your question exactly,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: but I think the young men I'm seeing in today's
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: world really give me a lot of hope and they
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: didn't have great teachers.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: So there's something cool there.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: You think that you are in the final round of
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: getting all this parenting done. You've got kids who are
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: in high school. You're starting to think about college and
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: you're thinking, this is it. I'm Julie Liles Carr. I
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: am a podcaster and I'm a mom of eight. And
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: here's what I want you to know about. George Fox University,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: it's a different way of doing college.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Why? Because yes, it's all about.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Getting a fantastic degree to set your kid up for
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: their future.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: They have 60.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Undergrad programs available at George Fox University.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: But that's not where the story ends. It's also about
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: equipping them spiritually.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: If you get out of college with a degree, but
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: you don't have a closer relationship with God, that obviously
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: is going to deeply impact what your young adult life
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: looks like. So for your kiddos, I want you to
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: consider what would it mean for your child to be
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: able to go to George Fox University where 93% of
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: George Fox students say they now have a closer relationship
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: with Jesus.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: George Fox University is located in the Pacific Northwest in Oregon.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: They have 23 Division III athletic programs, and 100% of
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: students at George Fox University receive financial aid. George Fox
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: University is dedicated to their promise. They want every student
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: to be known for who God created them to be.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: So listen, parents, yeah, you are getting into some of
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: those final laps, but you definitely want to make these
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: last laps count in a big way when it comes
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: to the legacy of your parenting. So be sure and
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: check out for your student, georgefox.edu.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: That's georgefox.edu.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: I love this idea of talking about leadership, those leader qualities,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: because I know that in my marriage, Mike very much
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: accepts that I'm a leader and I have leadership qualities.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: And I certainly appreciate and admire his leadership and his
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: leadership qualities. We lead and experience leadership in different ways.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: I have worked for a lot of my career in
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: very male-dominated industries, which has been very interesting. And my
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: leadership capacity and how I handled that definitely was something
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: that I had to learn to tweak through the years.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: There were things that I would try to come in
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: and be just like the guys and then learn that
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: that wasn't exactly the best use of my gifts and
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: falling into some of those traps, honestly, of not being, hey.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: A guy, I'm female, and I have a whole other
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: world of things that I can bring to the table.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: So this idea that a woman, I wonder sometimes if
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: what we've done in the equation, if what has gotten
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: things so challenged is that we sometimes feel like a
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: woman can only express leadership qualities if a man is
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: squashing his to some degree, or if he's not showing
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: up in that way, if that's the only way that
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: the lane is clear for a woman to be able
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: to run forward with the things that God has put
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: on her heart and the mission that God has for her.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: But I love that you said, you know, don't you
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: want to be with a man who has leadership qualities?
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: And I have to tell you that in some of
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: the times that I've spent listening to someone's story and
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: trying to help in letting them process and vent and
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: whatever they've needed to do, One of the predominant frustrations
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: that I hear today is not, I feel restricted by
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: the men in my life.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: No, Jennifer, what I'm.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Hearing is my husband, my partner, the guy I'm dating, whatever,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: he's so passive.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: He doesn't do anything. And I have to say that's
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: a switch.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: When I was younger, I knew women who felt very
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: suffocated in models of leadership that were not godly, models
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: of leadership that were not Christ-like.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: That whole conversation.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: By, I mean, I'm trying to even remember, Jennifer, the
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: last time I had a conversation with someone who said,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I'm feeling oppressed by a guy.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't hear that at all. I'm hearing way more.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: They don't, I'm doing everything. They're not doing anything.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: You know, if there's going to be a date night
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: or a project completed or something handled or somebody showing
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: up with the emotional energy, it's going to be on me,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: the woman.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: So that's interesting that you're seeing the same thing.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and to take it one step further,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I think, And I think you could agree with this
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: because you guys go to church, you see, you've been
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: in the ministry. I mean, like, I think women have
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: become the spiritual leaders of their households too.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: And that's not right.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I think so many of my clients,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: for instance, are that passive husband. And they realize, you know,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: 20 years into their marriage, like, how did this happen?
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: How did I surrender any leadership that I had? And
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: now like, I can't get it back.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: And there are ways to get it back, but it
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: takes a lot of consistency and a lot of like
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: modeling and a lot of, you know, you can't just
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: go to your wife and be like, Hey, I'm the leader.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Like you need to listen to me. And that's not
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: what a leader is supposed to be anyway. Men are lost.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: And I think, again, that's.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: One of the disadvantages that the culture has led us
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: to is women are masculine. women are hyper independent. We
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: are defensive. We don't want anybody to have the final say.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: We don't want to be backed up into a corner.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: We don't want to feel like we are oppressed. And
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: so we take it to the extreme and we are
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: almost like as a, as a gender, I would say
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: we've become pretty offensive people.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: And, um, that's, and we're exhausted. We're exhausted.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: And even if we don't admit it, I would say
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: we're exhausted.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: And so, um, I think there's an element of, you.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Know, when this happens in a marriage, a woman actually
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: has to go back. And, you know, if she's a
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Christian woman, of course, like, look at what God said. Like,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: why would you want to live not according to his design,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: not according.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: To the person who actually created you?
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Like we are, if he created us to be this
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: and this, we should probably follow that because that's going
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: to be most aligned. And that's where we're going to
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: feel like we are aiming for the right thing. It's
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: just that letting those walls down and surrendering each piece,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: like men have to surrender a certain thing. Women have
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: to surrender a certain thing. And if you are living
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: truly to his word and his truth and how marriage
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: is designed, like I think both parties benefit so greatly. Like,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: you know, I, I, I said, I've been in very
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: abusive relationships, controlling relationships.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not being a victim. I chose those things, fair
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and square.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: But the relationship I'm in now, and we are heading
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: towards marriage. The way he leads me is just like
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Jesus designed it to be. His literal goal is to
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: expand my universe. He doesn't want me to be small.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: He wants me to be a expand exponentially every single day.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: And that's what Christ wants. Like that's what Christ wants
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: for us. So I think, you know, at the end
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: of the day, finding your identity in Christ and living
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: in the way he designed, surrendering those parts that those
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: fleshly parts of you that just want to win and
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: be the person who like, that's just not going to
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: be sustainable. And in the long run, I don't think, um,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: men being men in the right way and women being
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: women is the right way. And surrendering to your husband
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: is not like the Proverbs 31 woman was a boss.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Like she was entrepreneurial. She was, yeah, she was a
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: nurturer and a lover and all of these great things,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: but she was also like, she knew how to handle money.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: She, you know, her husband was known at the gates
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: because of her.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Like she was a great powerful woman, the Proverbs 31 woman.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: So that's what we're supposed to be. We're not supposed
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: to be oppressed in any way, but we also have
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: to give men their place. And I think that's really important.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: We do have such a fractured understanding of womanhood. And
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: there have been further conversations. There are a couple of novels.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: And things that are out right now.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: There's all this stuff going around about trad wife on
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: and on. I'm not even going to begin to unpack
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: any of that. I have no desire to get in
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: that pool and Slug that out. But what I think
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: we really do see highlighted again is how fractured our
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: understanding is. We have incredibly strong, amazing women leading and
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: doing all kinds of things across scripture. And unfortunately, we
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: have boiled all that down in some of the conversation
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: and lost a lot of what is factual in God's
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: word about women. I think that one thing I would
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: just love to hear you try to just unpack for
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: us in a sense, and I'm going to ask you
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: to do something that's going to make you like flip
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: the guitar. If you've been playing with this hand, we're
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: going to flip and see if you can go the
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: other direction.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: So get ready.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: But because this audience is primarily women, and because as
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: you and I have shared, we have women saying, I
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: don't know what to do.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: My guy is so passive.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: And to your point, If all these things, if all
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: this fighting had led to women who felt more rested,
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: more directed, that doors were opening for them, on and
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: on and on, then maybe the argument would stand. But
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: what we're seeing now is women who say they are
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: more exhausted than ever, more burnt out than ever, and
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: guys who are more disengaged than ever. So clearly something,
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: even though some really good, honest, hard conversations were had,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: we didn't arrive.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: at really what a solution was.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: So for that woman who's saying, I'm listening to y'all,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: but I got to tell you, the guy in my life,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: the guy I'm committed to, the guy I'm in covenant with,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: the guy I'm, you know, we have this marriage and
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: we have these kids and we're trying to make it work,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: but he will not do anything. Well, we're asking a
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: woman in a weird way to take a step back
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: to let him bloom, but at the same time, try
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: to activate him.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: So we're asking all those two different things. So I
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: want to hear you.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I know you primarily are speaking in to guys in
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: your professional lane. Can you speak to women who are
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: in that situation who are saying, I hear you. I
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: really want to be in partnership. I want someone who's
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: leading well. I want someone who's following Christ well. And
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: this is just not happening. What is her next step?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: So I think one thing is to try to point
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: her husband to the word so he can figure things
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: out on his own.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I think lots of conversations need to be had.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: And these kinds of conversations, I think, you know, people
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: find awkward and, um, uncomfortable, but I think they're good conversations.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: You know, one of the things I like to do
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: with my clients is encourage them to have weekly, like
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: meetings with their wife.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Like, how can I serve you better?
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: How can I, you know, What have I experienced that
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: could have gone better this week? You know, like those
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: kinds of questions are really, really good. Some of the time,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: the conversations are just not being had. And like, if
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: you have unverbalized expectations, those are going to cause resentment.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Maybe the husband doesn't even know what he wants, what
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: you want from him, you know? So I think conversations, honest,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: respectful conversations, not nagging conversations are I think that's a
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: really good place to start. But also I think if
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: you speak to how men like to feel love, men
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: don't like to feel love like we do. They like
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: to feel respect. And if you start and that's biblical.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And if you start to perhaps question, you know, are,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: am I really respecting him and encouraging him to make
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: these choices for our family? to have the right conversations
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: with me to be able to lead me and the kids. Like,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: am I actually stepping back and respecting him and encouraging
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: him and being his support beam, but not overtaking the conversation?
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Because I think sometimes even when we want him to
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: take that lead back, we do find ourselves overtaking the
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: conversation still kind of like how At least I think
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: of this with my own kid, maybe like when you're
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: teaching your kid to tie a shoe, you know, you
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: want him to tie his shoe, but then if it's
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: taking a little bit too long, okay, I'll just do
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: it for you. Like, I think as women, we tend
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: to do that sometimes and, you know, just really taking
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: a step back and respecting him because once, when he
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: feels respected, he's going to do more and more and
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: more of the things that you want him to do.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: when he doesn't feel respected, he's going to crawl into
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a hole and be passive because he doesn't want to
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: deal with it or he doesn't know how to. And
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: so I think those are some of the things I
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: would suggest initially.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: I'm curious too to hear why you chose to start
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: out on this ministry on LinkedIn. I think this is
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: a really interesting facet to what you do because so
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: many people launch immediately into wanting to serve and they
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: have a message and they have a heartbeat for something
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: that's really important. And a lot of people jump first
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: to more of a traditional podcast space, or they're going
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: to write a book or they're going to be on
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: social platforms, whatever. And yet you've built a whole community
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: on LinkedIn. I would love to hear more about that process,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: that decision tree that you made there. Yeah.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: So, you know, it wasn't something that like, so first
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: of all, biblical masculinity as my, my mission wasn't something
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: I set out to do like, Hmm, I think I'm
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: going to be this, you know, it wasn't really like that.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it was a progression of, It was God
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: calling me through each little step. Um, and cause initially
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be a coach for women, actually women
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: who were toxic people pleasers who were high functioning, wanted
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: to get out of certain situations and stop appeasing people.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: And like, how do we get there? But it didn't work.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: And God kept calling me into further things that I
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: moved down the line into what I'm doing now. Um,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: so I would say I started talking about masculinity back
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: in 2022, really That was when I really started and
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't intend for LinkedIn to be a big thing
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: for me. I just started posting on LinkedIn, whatever I
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: posted on Instagram and on LinkedIn, it just somehow, it
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: just hit and it resonated with so many.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: People, whether good or bad.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: And I slowly just built up this following to what
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: is now 150,000 people. And it wasn't something I intended
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: to do. I just started being really vulnerable, speaking boldly,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: and it worked. And it's something that I believe in.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: And I think when you're speaking authentically about things that
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you actually believe in, and you're not afraid to be transparent,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: take accountability for your mistakes, what led you here, what
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: led me to start this in the first place was my.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Series of mistakes.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: And so I think people really appreciate that whether it's,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: you're talking about cooking or you're talking about theology, you know?
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: So, um, I think LinkedIn has turned into a place
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: where people can really speak about things. I mean, it
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: is full of Christ, which it didn't used to be
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: like people would be super annoyed if you ever brought
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: up God on LinkedIn and anything other than strictly.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Business related things.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: And now it's just not the same.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know if your feet is the same,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: but my feet is just like, God, God, God, God, God,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: or like really empowering, like business perspectives or about family.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: It's just different now. And I think it's really wonderful. Well, Jennifer,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I want you.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: To leave us with how you today with all the
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: work you've done now with the different people that you
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: have helped coach and given them tools and all the
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: things to walk in masculinity in a culture that is,
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: is really grappling with what that means and how we
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: can all honor each other in the way that God intended.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: What today is your definition of what true, healthy, vibrant
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: masculinity looks like?
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to go back to my word meek,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: you know, the meek, shall inherit all of.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: The things that God promised, right? And meek as a
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: man means, you know, it is strength. It is composure.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: It is peace.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's massive strength. Like you have the capacity,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: you have power inside of you, but you harness it
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: and you only use it if you absolutely need to,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: whether that's, you know, in any context. You have compassion
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: and grace and patience and so much love.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: You have emotional intelligence.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: You have standards and boundaries that you are not afraid
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: to speak on and hold other people to. And you
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: have an aim in life that is Christ and bringing
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: your wife to her best potential and bringing your kids
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: to their best potential. And just leading your family spiritually,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: you can't go wrong if you're that person because who
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: else was that person?
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Jesus.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: And I think ultimately to do this, you know, you
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: do have to surrender your life in that way. Kind
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: of like I said at the beginning, Jesus was always
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: my savior, but he was not my Lord. And so
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: everything was Jennifer's way, no matter like how often I prayed,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: it was like, oh, That's great, but I'm just going
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: to go my way. Jesus has to be the Lord
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: of your life in order to live by this design
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: and have it feel good and how it, and that
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: will just expand the lives of everybody around you, whether
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: it's in the workplace or in the home. And so
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: that would be my advice is to be a meek
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: person and remember that that is not weak.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: That is standards. that is boundaries and.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: That is seeing people for who they are and loving
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: people and giving grace and understanding.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: So.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: I've heard meekness defined as incredible strength under control. And
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: so I think that just really speaks to it. Well, Jen,
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: where can people go to find out more about the
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: work you do, where you live in the online spaces?
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: So you can look me up on LinkedIn, Jennifer Yale.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: That is the place I'm most present. I'm also on
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Instagram at jenwith2ends. yale. I do a podcast every week called
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Reignite in which I kind of talk to people, hear
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: their story, how they've come through the fire, what their
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: testimony is basically. I also do another podcast that I
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: co-host called Living the Good Life. We kind of go
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: through Matthew verse by verse and have an hour-long conversation
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: and it's really great. And then I'll be taking over
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: as president of the C-Suite for Christ Austin chapter in September.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: So you can find me at all those places and
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I would love to chat.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Alrighty.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: I love that. We'll get those into the show notes. Well, Jen,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for taking the time today. I
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: know that you're in a super busy season of life,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: getting kids off to college and making moves and taking
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: care of your folks and all kinds of stuff.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for making time for this conversation.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It is always
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: such a pleasure and blessing to talk to you. And
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I hope to do much more of that once I'm
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: in Austin.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, girl.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Same friend. All right, listener, you know what to do.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Go to those show notes.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much to our podcast team who puts
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: those together for us and has all the links and
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: all the good stuff.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: So be sure and check that out.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Hey, grab this link and send it to a friend
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: who maybe is grappling with some of the same issues,
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: trying to figure out dynamics in their marriage, trying to
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: figure out what it means to be able to walk
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: well and encourage each other as husband and wife.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: So grab this link and send it to someone who
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: could use it because that is one of the best things.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: We love it.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: When you share.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: Also check out All Mom Does, All Mom Does on
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: the socials, because that's a community that you are going
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: to find that is fantastic for challenging you, encouraging you.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: And inspiring you.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: I love it too when you hop over to Julie
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: Lyle's car on Instagram and you come over to my
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: DMs and you say.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Hey, can we talk about this? What about that?
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: Have you ever heard of so-and-so? Could you have them
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: on your show?
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: I love that. So be sure and come
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: See me over there on Instagram and I will see
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: you next time on the All Mom Does podcast.