Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Fun-filled family vacation turns tragic with cruise ship death of 18-month-old girl. Grandfather charged.

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Fun-filled family vacation turns tragic with cruise ship death of 18-month-old girl. Grandfather charged. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Some of the happiest times I have ever had were
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Speaker 1: on a cruise trip with my children. We were on
0:13
Speaker 1: a Disney cruise and it was incredible. And what was
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Speaker 1: even more incredible are the safety precautions that Disney takes
0:22
Speaker 1: on those cruise ships to protect children. So on a
0:26
Speaker 1: Royal Caribbean cruise, how does an eighteen month old little girl,
0:31
Speaker 1: Chloe fall from an open window and the kids zone
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Speaker 1: no less well? At first we hear reports that her
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Speaker 1: own grandfather was dangling her out the window. All on,
0:47
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Could that be true? I Nancy Grace. This
0:52
Speaker 1: is crime Stories, Climb Stories with Nancy Grace. Tragedy aboard
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Speaker 1: a Royal Caribbean cruise where a toddler has died after
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Speaker 1: falling one hundred and fifty feet while allegedly being dangled
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Speaker 1: out of a window by her grandfather. According to Fox News,
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Speaker 1: the eighteen month old girl slipped out of his arms
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Speaker 1: on the eleventh floor of the ship. The ship at
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Speaker 1: the time was reportedly docked in San Juan, Puerto Rico.
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Speaker 1: After falling, the toddler was taken to the hospital and
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Speaker 1: died shortly after. A local news website on the island
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Speaker 1: said The girl was from Indiana and was on vacation
1:38
Speaker 1: with her family. Police have opened an investigation and have
1:41
Speaker 1: yet to question the family, according to Fox News. However,
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Speaker 1: the Department of Public Security in Puerto Rico told the
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Speaker 1: site that the homicide division is in place. Police say
1:50
Speaker 1: the family believes it was a tragic accident. In the
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Speaker 1: last hours. The grandfather who drops his eighteen month old
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Speaker 1: granddaughter out of an open window on the eleventh floor
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Speaker 1: of a cruise ship has been charged with her death.
2:09
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this isscribe stories. Thank you for being
2:12
Speaker 1: with us. You are hearing our friends at WPLG. That
2:16
Speaker 1: was Kelly. Now take a listen to WTSPTNS Kaitlyn Lockerbee
2:20
Speaker 1: a ten news alert now in Puerto Rico, an eighteen
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Speaker 1: month old girl from Indiana has died after falling out
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Speaker 1: of a Royal cribbing cruise ship. The little girl fell
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Speaker 1: from the eleventh floor from a port side window and
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Speaker 1: then hit the pavement. Authorities say her grandfather was holding
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Speaker 1: her up to the window when he lost his grip.
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Speaker 1: Puerto Rican police are interviewing the family members at this time.
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Speaker 1: They're also reviewing any available security camera that may show
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Speaker 1: what happened, and they're interviewing witnesses to determine the official
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Speaker 1: cause of the child's death. Authorities believe the girl and
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Speaker 1: her family are from Indiana, as they mentioned. Wow, those
2:56
Speaker 1: are two very very different stories. Was the eighteen month
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Speaker 1: girl dangled out the window as we first heard, or
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Speaker 1: was baby Chloe a victim of falling out and open
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Speaker 1: a window. I recall distinctly after the twins were born,
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Speaker 1: putting bars on my windows up on the twenty first
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Speaker 1: floor of the apartment in New York because the children,
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Speaker 1: the twins wanted to look out the window. And there
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Speaker 1: there is about foot and a half maybe a foot
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Speaker 1: ledge on the interior of the window, and the air
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Speaker 1: conditioned heat vents are under that, and they would sit
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Speaker 1: there and look out the window. Well, the first time
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Speaker 1: I sat them there, I realized if the window was open,
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Speaker 1: anything could happen. So we immediately put bars on the
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Speaker 1: outside the windows. It looks like burglar bars, and you
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Speaker 1: wonder who would break in twenty one flights up. But
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Speaker 1: that wasn't the point. Was the little baby Chloe just
4:02
Speaker 1: eighteen months old Chloe Wigan dangled out the window or
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Speaker 1: did she fall from an open window? Again. I'm Nancy Grace.
4:10
Speaker 1: This his crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
4:12
Speaker 1: An all star panel with us. Jason Oceans, veteran criminal
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Speaker 1: defense attorney, joining me out of New York. Chloyd Steiger
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Speaker 1: thirty six years, Seattle PD, twenty two years, homicide detective,
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Speaker 1: author of Homicide The View from Inside the Yellow Tape.
4:29
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University and author
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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Forensics psychiatrists out
4:38
Speaker 1: of the Florida Jurisdiction, Doctor Daniel Bober with me, Doctor
4:43
Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's Deputy Medical Examiner, and Travis County, Texas. But
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Speaker 1: right now, to Dave Matt, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: what happened, Dave, Nancy, we got two different reports on
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Speaker 1: this when it first happened, and it sounded like the
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Speaker 1: grandfather was dangling his eighteen months old grandchild out this window.
5:02
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. The last time I
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Speaker 1: heard that phraseology was when Michael Jackson dangled blanket off
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Speaker 1: a balcony in front of the fans, and we knew
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Speaker 1: what happened because it was all on video. Jason Oshans
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Speaker 1: do you remember that he should have been charged with
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Speaker 1: child in danger? Man? Right the end, I do remember
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Speaker 1: it well. I mean the visual of that in the
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Speaker 1: one handed and you know, literally dangling down it was.
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Speaker 1: It was horrifying. Again, you come upon yourself as a
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Speaker 1: parent and thinking, are there was any actions that I
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Speaker 1: would take or risk with my children? And certainly to
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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson dangling as you bring that that image back
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Speaker 1: was horribly dangerous and terrifically irresponsible. Back to you. Dave
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Speaker 1: mac investigative reporter Crime online dot Com. Tell me about
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Speaker 1: the cruise. Was it Royal Caribbean, Yes, ma'am, it was
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Speaker 1: Royal Caribbean cruise and they were actually docked in San Juan. Now,
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Speaker 1: the story of dangling the baby actually came from Royal Caribbean.
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Speaker 1: And there's a reason for that, Nancy, because this grandfather
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Speaker 1: was not dangling his eighteen month old baby out of
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Speaker 1: a window. It's a whole lot worse than that, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: They were on the eleventh floor of this incredible cruise
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Speaker 1: ship docked in San Juan. It was a kids play
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Speaker 1: area again, kids play area, a water park area, eleventh story,
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Speaker 1: eleventh stories up, and the grandfather has his eighteen month
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Speaker 1: old grandchild, and they go over to a window. Okay,
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Speaker 1: the glass, it's a glass wall overlooking so everybody can see.
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Speaker 1: They're eleven stories up in a kids area. He sets
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Speaker 1: his eighteen month old grandchild on like a banister railing. Okay,
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Speaker 1: where she can look. Now, this is something they do
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Speaker 1: at hockey games for her older brother, where they pound
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Speaker 1: on the glass watching the game, and that's what eighteen
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Speaker 1: month old Chloe wanted to do. Grandfather lifts her up.
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Speaker 1: She reaches to bang on the window and Nancy eleven
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Speaker 1: stories up in this kid's zone play area. There's no window,
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Speaker 1: it's open, and she falls eleven stories Oh my goodness.
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Speaker 1: That's I didn't realize that part of the scenario that
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Speaker 1: they thought the window was closed and the little girl
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Speaker 1: was gonna knock on the window and instead just went
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Speaker 1: out an open window on the eleventh floor of a
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Speaker 1: cruise ship in a kid zone area. Wow, I did
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Speaker 1: not see that coming. That's a lot different story than
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Speaker 1: what we've been told. Take a listen to our friends
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Speaker 1: at wp LG. This is Trent Kelly, that attorney today
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Speaker 1: strongly disputing some of the initial reports that were put
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Speaker 1: out by Puerto Rican authorities. We have some landscape here
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Speaker 1: going on right behind US Puerto Rican officials though initially
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Speaker 1: said that the one year old died after she slipped
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Speaker 1: from her grandfather's arms, but today her family's attorney says
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Speaker 1: that's not the case at all. In fact, that family
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Speaker 1: didn't even know that the window was open at the time.
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Speaker 1: Let's go and show you some brand new photos if
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Speaker 1: we can, of that one year old girl. This is
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Speaker 1: Chloe Wagened. Her family is from South Bend, Indiana. Her father,
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Speaker 1: in fact, is a police officer up there. In some
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Speaker 1: of these photos, you can see that little girl with
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Speaker 1: her grandfather. I believe we have another photo now showing
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Speaker 1: the actual area on the ship where this all happened.
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Speaker 1: That is on deck eleven of the Freedom of the Seas.
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Speaker 1: That's a cruise ship that currently sails out of San Juan,
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Speaker 1: Puerto Rico. The mom, kimberly, reveals that when she was
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Speaker 1: first told quote something had happened to Chloe, mommy was
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Speaker 1: unaware that Chloe had gone through an open window, and
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Speaker 1: she ran up to the kids zone demanding to know
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Speaker 1: where was her baby. She says she looked outside and
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Speaker 1: saw the cement the baby fell down to She had
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Speaker 1: no idea the baby had gone out a window. She
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Speaker 1: says she just saw Sam standing next to the wall
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Speaker 1: of windows, screaming and banging on it, and there was
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Speaker 1: someone trying to stop me as she was screaming, take
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Speaker 1: me to my baby? Where is my baby? Crime Stories
9:42
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, the girl's grandfather, saying he picked the
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Speaker 1: toddler up so she could look outside and bang on
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Speaker 1: the windows. He says he set her on a railing
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Speaker 1: against what he thought was a closed window in the
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Speaker 1: ship's play area. When they told me, Chloe, I didn't
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Speaker 1: know that she went out a window. I just saw
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Speaker 1: him standing next to the wall of windows. Five kids
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Speaker 1: flashpat scream, and there was like somebody from Royal Caribbean
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Speaker 1: kept trying to stop me, and I just kept saying,
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Speaker 1: taking you to my baby? Where is my baby? Has
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Speaker 1: he been able to explain to you how this happened?
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Speaker 1: He was extremely hysterical. The thing that he has repeatedly
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Speaker 1: told us is I believe that there was glass. He
10:36
Speaker 1: will cry over and over. Royal Caribbean issued a statement
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Speaker 1: following the charges, saying, in part, this was a tragic incident,
10:44
Speaker 1: previously saying they were assisting police with the investigation. The
10:48
Speaker 1: family telling Savannah they believe Royal Caribbean could have prevented
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Speaker 1: the accident by taking additional safety precautions, the family spokesman
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Speaker 1: adding an a statement overnight, Royal Caribbean still is given
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Speaker 1: us the opportunity to view surveillance video they have of
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Speaker 1: the incident, adding they plan to file a lawsuit very shortly.
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Speaker 1: The attorney representing Sam Manello, the grandfather, tells us this
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Speaker 1: morning that his client has now been released and is
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Speaker 1: free and is heading home. The family still believes. The
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Speaker 1: attorney says that that security video will be the best
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Speaker 1: evidence to show that this was a tragedy and an accident,
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Speaker 1: but not a crime. Wow, you are hearing our friend NBC.
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Speaker 1: That was Carrie Sanders, as well as Kimberley, the mom
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Speaker 1: of baby Chloe, now dead after a dream of a
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Speaker 1: lifetime cruise on Royal Caribbean goes horribly, horribly wrong. I'm
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Speaker 1: looking at the window, the open windows shown in an
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Speaker 1: exterior image taken after the incident. The family says the
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Speaker 1: granddad sim who did not realize the window it was
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Speaker 1: open when he propped her up, And I'm thinking back,
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Speaker 1: I'm thinking back Loyd'steiger with me twenty two years homicide detective.
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Speaker 1: When we have taken children on Disney cruises in the
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Speaker 1: kids zone, which I'm always a nervous wreck leaving them
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Speaker 1: in the kids zone, usually end up sitting outside to
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Speaker 1: make sure some freak doesn't go in and out undetected.
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Speaker 1: They have all sorts of security precautions in place. You
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Speaker 1: can't even I couldn't go in to get my own
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Speaker 1: children out unless I hit a and automated electronically red
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Speaker 1: wristband decoder which pops up as to who I am,
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Speaker 1: and what my children are in there, and how long
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Speaker 1: they've been in there, and what cabin I'm in at
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Speaker 1: all our relevant information. But I don't recall windows being
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Speaker 1: in the kids area. They have a little cooking area
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Speaker 1: and there are windows was there as I recall, But
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Speaker 1: they're windows that don't open like porthole windows. I mean
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Speaker 1: they're big. They're big windows like maybe two to four
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Speaker 1: feet across, no, make that about four feet across their
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Speaker 1: circular but you can't open them, so the children can't
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Speaker 1: possibly get out the window way in. I don't I
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Speaker 1: have no idea why you would have a window that
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Speaker 1: large that could open on that level of a ship,
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Speaker 1: whether it's in a child's area or not, especially of
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Speaker 1: a child's area. But first of all, let me tell
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Speaker 1: you what a tragedy this whole case is. When I
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Speaker 1: first heard those news reports that he dangled his granddaughter,
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Speaker 1: I was outrageous, thought they need to charge him. And now,
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Speaker 1: of course everything's been walked back, and you wonder what's
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Speaker 1: on those surveillance videos that would cause them to charge
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Speaker 1: this grandfather? Was this terrible thing? Of course he'll suffer
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Speaker 1: the rest of his life as well the mother and
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Speaker 1: the rest of the family. Already, it's just that tragedy
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Speaker 1: all the way around. And what the heck because that
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Speaker 1: one are doing in a play area or on the
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Speaker 1: eleven foot a little pit that much at all. Anyway,
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Speaker 1: we just brought up a good point, Clod Steiger. I recall,
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Speaker 1: and we've taken the children on three Disney cruises that
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Speaker 1: everywhere you go there's surveillance video. I remember walking round
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Speaker 1: and around and around the deck, you know, for exercise,
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Speaker 1: and the twins would be running along beside me. Everywhere
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Speaker 1: I looked up there was a surreillance video camera everywhere.
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Speaker 1: And the same is true here with Me forensics expert,
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Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics Jackson State University and author of Blood
14:38
Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon Joseph Scott Morgan surveillance video
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Speaker 1: is playing a key role in this, and cops say
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Speaker 1: they did not charge the suspect, the Grandpa Sam Annello,
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Speaker 1: until after they reviewed the videotape. Joe Scott. Yeah, that's
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Speaker 1: that's an interest development, Nancy. And you know, going back
15:02
Speaker 1: to what Cloyd had said very quickly, you know, Cloyd
15:06
Speaker 1: out of the Seattle area. If I'm not mistaken, I
15:09
Speaker 1: started my career in New Orleans. I'm assuming that we
15:12
Speaker 1: kind of run parallel relative to our experiences having to
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Speaker 1: work cases that originate off of ships. It was one
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Speaker 1: of the biggest headaches for me working for the Coroner's office,
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Speaker 1: having to deal with cruise ships and having to deal
15:27
Speaker 1: with tanker ships, because it's like you're in a world.
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Speaker 1: It's in a world that you don't have control over
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Speaker 1: so much like you do on the land, Okay, because
15:38
Speaker 1: it's it's completely separate, and this environment is really hard.
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Speaker 1: It's very difficult for an investigator to work in to
15:44
Speaker 1: glean the appropriate amount of information and to really put
15:47
Speaker 1: the pieces together. First Off, you don't know if the
15:50
Speaker 1: people that you're dealing with English is their first language. Secondly,
15:55
Speaker 1: procedurally they do things completely different. They're not held to
15:58
Speaker 1: the same restrict and say that we are from an
16:01
Speaker 1: investigative standpoint off outside of that ship. So it raises
16:06
Speaker 1: a lot of questions for me as to what information
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Speaker 1: they were initially given and now what has come about
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Speaker 1: as a result of this. We are talking about an
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Speaker 1: eighteen month old baby girl, Chloe, who falls from the
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Speaker 1: eleventh story on a Royal Caribbean cruise ship. I'm looking
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Speaker 1: at the window right now, and the windows are tall.
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Speaker 1: It looks like the whole wall is made up of
16:31
Speaker 1: windowed panes. The windows look to be about three feet
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Speaker 1: wide by about two and a half feet tall, and
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Speaker 1: there is a little ledge. I mean, this window looks
16:44
Speaker 1: like it's about four or five feet up off the ground,
16:48
Speaker 1: but there's a ledge there that a child could sit
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Speaker 1: on to look out. The window on the far left
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Speaker 1: is the one where Chloe fell through by being held
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Speaker 1: by a grand father. It appears to have handles that
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Speaker 1: allow them to slide open. I'm looking at them right now,
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Speaker 1: including the wooden railing. Chloe was propped up on by
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Speaker 1: her granddad. The windows slide open from the right to
17:18
Speaker 1: the left, and there's there's a handle to open and
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Speaker 1: close the window. Why in the world would you have
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Speaker 1: a window of that size, the perfect size for a
17:28
Speaker 1: kid to crawl or jump out of in the kids area.
17:32
Speaker 1: To Jason Oceans veteran trial lawyer, what about it, Jason Fancy,
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Speaker 1: you know what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned that's right
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Speaker 1: in the earlier vision of Michael Jackson dangling blanket out
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Speaker 1: the window and then looking back and peeling it back.
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Speaker 1: And why is there a window? Why is there alleged
17:53
Speaker 1: by a window? Why is it designed that way to
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Speaker 1: look out? Uh, seems to be the whole purpose. And
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Speaker 1: so you know, economics takes of value in this an
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Speaker 1: in an overcharge, the ship and the line and their
18:08
Speaker 1: relationship with the island the critical for the economy if
18:13
Speaker 1: the shipline takes the hit because they were criminally negliged.
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Speaker 1: Oh golly, you know you're reminded me of, Jason. Go ahead,
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Speaker 1: you're reminded me of the Natalie Holloway case, where in
18:25
Speaker 1: that case, the island did everything they could to hinder
18:32
Speaker 1: the investigation and describe the disappearance of Natalie Holloway and
18:36
Speaker 1: in this case, as a matter of fact, the attorney
18:40
Speaker 1: for the family is saying that they've been trying to
18:44
Speaker 1: get that closed circuit TV the surveillance footage, and Royal
18:48
Speaker 1: Caribbean has not given them the footage. Reports say that
18:54
Speaker 1: the lawyers for Grandpa in San Juan might get the
18:59
Speaker 1: food sometimes soon, but it seems like there's some attempt
19:04
Speaker 1: right now to play everything close to the vest. This
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Speaker 1: is a murder investigation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Eighteen
19:31
Speaker 1: month old Chloe Weekend was just learning how to talk.
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Speaker 1: Her family says she loved banging on the glass at
19:36
Speaker 1: her brother's hockey games. It's why her grandfather, fifty one
19:40
Speaker 1: year old Salvatore Nello, lifted her up to what he
19:42
Speaker 1: thought was a wall of enclosed windows on their Royal
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Speaker 1: Caribbean cruise ship during a family vacation this past July,
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Speaker 1: but one of the eleventh floor windows and a children's
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Speaker 1: play area was open. Chloe fell out of her grandfather's arms.
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Speaker 1: Attorney Michael Cornakia says he's never seen a case like this.
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Speaker 1: Did they have to prosecute this case? No, they didn't
20:03
Speaker 1: have to, but it's discretionary. Usually when there's a dead person,
20:07
Speaker 1: in this case an infant, there's there's an inquiry that
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Speaker 1: they want to make and they've decided that they want
20:13
Speaker 1: to find the facts and they're accusing him of the
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Speaker 1: lowest level of homicide. Prosecutors in Puerto Rico charged Annello
20:21
Speaker 1: with negligent homicide Monday, but the Weekend family believes the
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Speaker 1: Cruise Line is responsible, not Chloe's grandfather, Michael Winckelman is
20:29
Speaker 1: their attorney. The family's devastated by it. They find it
20:32
Speaker 1: unnecessary and unfair and it's really pouring salt on the
20:35
Speaker 1: open wounds of this greeting family. The family is planning
20:38
Speaker 1: to sue Royal Caribbean. The Cruise Line told us they
20:40
Speaker 1: cannot comment because of the pending lawsuit. Anello was expected
20:44
Speaker 1: back in court in San Juan, Puerto Rico next month.
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Speaker 1: Nor He faces three years in prison if convicted. Wow Today,
20:50
Speaker 1: Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter day, what can
20:53
Speaker 1: you tell me about the charges against the grandfather sam
20:57
Speaker 1: and Ella. Well, it is the lowest level that they
20:59
Speaker 1: can charge him, and actually in San Juan, Puerto Rico
21:01
Speaker 1: is considered a misdemeanor. But there's something important about this
21:04
Speaker 1: that you've mentioned several times, Nancy, about a window that
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Speaker 1: can be opened on the eleventh floor in a kids area.
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Speaker 1: According to Royal Caribbean, their explanation is they needed it
21:12
Speaker 1: for ventilation. That this ship, Freedom of the Seas was
21:15
Speaker 1: actually finished in construction in two thousand and six, and
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Speaker 1: the laws have changed since then. Okay, the newer ships
21:22
Speaker 1: do not have windows that open in these levels, but
21:25
Speaker 1: back then it did. And even though this was refurbished
21:28
Speaker 1: three years ago, they did not change the window locking assignments.
21:32
Speaker 1: You know in New York you have to have now,
21:36
Speaker 1: I don't think you had to have it when we
21:37
Speaker 1: install them, but you have to have security rails outside
21:41
Speaker 1: your windows at a certain level, once you're above a
21:44
Speaker 1: certain floor. And this is exactly why. And I'm thinking
21:48
Speaker 1: back to doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, I'm thinking back
21:55
Speaker 1: on the Disney Cruise ship, and I'm looking at these windows.
21:58
Speaker 1: The dining area on the Disney ship look like this
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Speaker 1: their Florida ceiling windows, but they didn't open. And to me,
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Speaker 1: it's almost an admission of guilt for the windows to
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Speaker 1: open in two thousand and six. Now they don't anymore
22:16
Speaker 1: because it's a clear danger. But when they refurbished it,
22:19
Speaker 1: they did not correct them. I totally agree with you, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: I mean, this is beyond stupidity. Why would you have
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Speaker 1: windows that open at that height in a children's area.
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Speaker 1: It just it's inviting a disaster. I mean, I could
22:33
Speaker 1: see having windows that don't open, but windows that open,
22:35
Speaker 1: I think it makes absolutely no sense. Oh, I definitely
22:38
Speaker 1: think that if that turns out to be true, there's
22:40
Speaker 1: definitely some contribution on the part of Royal Caribbean to
22:43
Speaker 1: this tragic accident. I mean it's akin to saying, yeah,
22:46
Speaker 1: we found out that cars really need minivans really need
22:49
Speaker 1: to have airbags in them, but we didn't add them.
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Speaker 1: They refurbished, but they did not correct the windows. Joining
22:56
Speaker 1: me special guest Deputy medical Examiner from Travis County, Texas,
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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Crowns listened to this. How are
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Speaker 1: you getting through just every day just getting up out
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Speaker 1: of bed. The first thirty seconds of the day, I
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Speaker 1: don't remember what happened, and then it comes back and
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Speaker 1: I relive what happened. The thing that I latch onto
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Speaker 1: is her memory. She just exuded love. Kim Chloe say
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Speaker 1: let it go. Kimberly Weekend says her daughter Chloe was
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Speaker 1: the personification of goodness. She loved watching her brother play hockey,
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Speaker 1: She loved gardening with me. She could get anybody to smile.
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Speaker 1: I just know that she was destined to do such
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Speaker 1: great things. But even in her short life, I truly
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Speaker 1: believed she changed so many lives. Her first guest was
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Speaker 1: with me, he kiss, and I had to record it
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Speaker 1: and send it to Kim. Oh, my stars, you are
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Speaker 1: hearing baby Chloe, and you are hearing her mom Kimberly
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Speaker 1: and her dad Alan as they talked to my longtime
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Speaker 1: friend Savannah Guthrie from Court TV now at NBC Today Show.
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Speaker 1: Oh that was just heartwrenching to doctor Kendall Crowns joining me,
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Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examiner Travis County, Texas a real honor to
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Speaker 1: have you on with us, Doctor Crowns. When you perform
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Speaker 1: autopsies on children, that's got to just break your heart.
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Speaker 1: I mean, you may never get the chance like you
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Speaker 1: just did to actually hear the victim laughing and giggling.
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Speaker 1: But how do you brace yourself? What does it do
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Speaker 1: to you and you're psyche to perform autopsies on children. Oh, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: that's hers part of my job. It's actually hearing that.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's it's upset me quite a bit. I apologize,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns. I feel the same way when I just
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Speaker 1: heard her, and then I think of what happened to her,
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Speaker 1: going eleven stories and landing on cement. Yeah, my only
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Speaker 1: consolation is that she died instantly. But yeah, yeah, I know.
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Speaker 1: When I interviewed, Yeah, when I interview people, or when
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Speaker 1: I was investigating homicides, it would just break my heart
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Speaker 1: when I would meet with a family and they would
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Speaker 1: show me photo albums and videos, and it's just heartbreaking.
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Speaker 1: I don't know how you do it, doctor Crowns. Well so,
25:43
Speaker 1: so I always tell people the hardest part of my
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Speaker 1: job is not actually doing the autopsies. It's it's dealing
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Speaker 1: with the grieving family members because they've lost someone and
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Speaker 1: often they're very upset, and they they often have to
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Speaker 1: have someone to yell at, which is usually the medical examiner,
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Speaker 1: and you know, we're part of the grieving process. We
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Speaker 1: help them as best we can. But children, it's it's
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Speaker 1: actually fairly hard sometimes because you know, it's it's a life,
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Speaker 1: a potential that got taken too soon type of thing.
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Speaker 1: But I always approach it as what can we learn
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Speaker 1: from it? What we can what can we do to
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Speaker 1: prevent this from happening to another child, and and what
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Speaker 1: can we do to help the family, you know, and
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Speaker 1: at least give them some closure. So when you get
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Speaker 1: a pediatric autopsy, that's the way I usually approach it
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Speaker 1: is how can I help this to not happen to
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Speaker 1: another child, or at a minimum, to help that family
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Speaker 1: understand what happened and at least help them with the
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Speaker 1: grieving process. But kids are always hard, and you know,
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Speaker 1: and I rarely hear the the the end of the
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Speaker 1: story that you just played. So that just was that
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Speaker 1: was just really really hard to hear. You know, what
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Speaker 1: you're saying is resonating with my daughter. Kindall crowns because
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Speaker 1: you're on a mission, as many of us are, to
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Speaker 1: change things, to stop evil or bad things from happening
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Speaker 1: as best we can. Take a Listen to Mom Kimberly
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Speaker 1: as she describes the moment she realized something was horribly wrong.
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Speaker 1: Here she is speaking with Savannah Guthrie. I guess I
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Speaker 1: would say this about the window. When they told me
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Speaker 1: Chloe died, I didn't know that she went out a window.
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Speaker 1: I just saw Sam standing next to the wall of windows.
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Speaker 1: Five kids slash, pat scream and vain, and there was
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Speaker 1: like somebody from Royal Cribby and they kept trying to
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Speaker 1: stop me, and I just kept saying, taking you to
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Speaker 1: my baby? Where is my baby? Taking my baby? I
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Speaker 1: didn't even notice a window. I ran over there and
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Speaker 1: I looked over and it wasn't water down there, it
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Speaker 1: was concrete. But it was just honestly, to lose our
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Speaker 1: baby this way is which is unfathomable. Crime stories with
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Her first word was high. I mean she
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Speaker 1: loved people. The eighteen month old little girl was the
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Speaker 1: light of her parents' life, and her sudden loss aboard
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Speaker 1: a Royal Caribbean cruise ship in Puerto Rico has crushed
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Speaker 1: her tight knit family. We have a lot of questions,
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Speaker 1: primarily why is there an open window in the kid's
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Speaker 1: clay area eleven stories off the ground. Chloe's family says
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Speaker 1: she fell through that open window said to slide open
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Speaker 1: to provide ventilation in what's known as the H two
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Speaker 1: ozone aboard the cruise ship. A family attorney says, the
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Speaker 1: toddler's grandfather Sam placed her on a railing to look
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Speaker 1: out side, believing he was lifting the toddler behind a
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Speaker 1: wall of glass, something they did often at hockey games
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Speaker 1: at home with Chloe banging on the glass. Has he
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Speaker 1: been able to explain to you how this happened? He
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Speaker 1: was extremely hysterical. The thing that he has repeatedly told
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Speaker 1: us is I believe that there was glass. He will
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Speaker 1: cry over and over and no point ever, ever has
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Speaker 1: Sam ever put our kids in danger. He must be
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Speaker 1: this truck very very stry. I mean you can barely
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Speaker 1: look at him without him crying. Can you imagine hoisting
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Speaker 1: up baby Chloe to bang on the glass and then
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Speaker 1: she makes that first bang and goes overboard, and you're
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Speaker 1: standing right there as she flies through the air and
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Speaker 1: you can't catch her or stop her. Oh, dear Lord
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Speaker 1: in heaven, this family on a dream vacation that turns
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Speaker 1: into a nightmare in a Royal Caribbean cruise line, their
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Speaker 1: little baby eighteen months old. Now, Dad, we want answers.
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Speaker 1: You were hearing my longtime friends of Anna Guthrie speaking
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Speaker 1: to Camberly and Alan. How did it go wrong. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to this. This one mother just came and
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Speaker 1: help me and embraced me, and I'll never forget it.
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Speaker 1: She just said, God watch over this family. I just
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Speaker 1: want to thank her. I don't know where she is
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Speaker 1: or who she is. There was one point where my
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Speaker 1: son said, Mom, I wish I would have been standing
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Speaker 1: there because I would have jumped and I would have
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Speaker 1: saved her. And that was like for me because I
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Speaker 1: know that he believed that, you know, and to know
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Speaker 1: he's living with that, It's just so hard. I'd never
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Speaker 1: want another mother to have to experience this, or to
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Speaker 1: see what I had to see, or to scream how
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Speaker 1: I had to scream, or to have to console their child.
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Speaker 1: To blame anyone, you blame the cruise coming. We obviously
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Speaker 1: blame them. There are million things that could have been
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Speaker 1: done to meet that favor. I know my mom was
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Speaker 1: asking people, why on earth is there a window open
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Speaker 1: on the eleventh floor without a screen or anything, And
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Speaker 1: their response to that was, we need ventilation, get a
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Speaker 1: fan for Pete's sake. An open window, an open window
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Speaker 1: in a kid zone on a cruise ship. Oh, I
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Speaker 1: just I don't know how this granddad will ever live
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Speaker 1: with himself whether it's his fault or not, and many people,
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Speaker 1: including Chloe's family, say it was not his fault, but
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Speaker 1: he's facing jail time. Dave Mack, what about cameras and crew?
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Speaker 1: Tell me what you know about this particular cruise ship. Well,
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Speaker 1: this particular cruise ship Freedom of the Seas, actually, when
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Speaker 1: it was first commissioned in two thousand and six, was
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Speaker 1: the largest ship ever built by man. And since then,
31:54
Speaker 1: of course other ships have been built it are bigger,
31:56
Speaker 1: but at the time it was built, it was state
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Speaker 1: of the art. Laws and things changed since then. Now
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Speaker 1: they've got nine hundred digital cameras recording twenty four to seven.
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Speaker 1: Yet I'm very concerned, Nancy, that Royal Caribbean and San Juan,
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Speaker 1: Puerto Rico, they nobody's turned over any of the surveillance
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Speaker 1: video to this family, so that their attorneys can't even
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Speaker 1: look at it. It seems very odd when you've got
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Speaker 1: a crew of thirteen hundred people, they handled nearly four
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Speaker 1: thousand passengers. They've got cameras rolling over every nook and
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Speaker 1: cranny of this ship. There's plenty of video that will
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Speaker 1: clearly show what happened exactly in that moment, and again
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Speaker 1: you're going back to this eleven stories up in an
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Speaker 1: area that is built for children to play, and there
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Speaker 1: is an open window. I'm just having a hard time
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Speaker 1: taking it in because I just have to warn everybody,
32:45
Speaker 1: and I write about it extensively in my book coming Out,
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Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim, Dangerous in Traveling. You're talking about
32:52
Speaker 1: the San Juan, Puerto Rico Police. Well, it ain't Kansas anymore.
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Speaker 1: You're not in the US where you have rights and
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Speaker 1: protections under the law. Even in civil cases. They do
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Speaker 1: not play by our rules. Yes, they are territory, but
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Speaker 1: it's a different world when you talk about it legally.
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Speaker 1: Jason Oceans Jason Oshans with me, veteran trial lawyer. So,
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Speaker 1: Puerto Rico is a commonwealth right, so under federal law,
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Speaker 1: they're within our federal system, but they're an individual state
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Speaker 1: and you know, within the sovereign over the United States.
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Speaker 1: So it is a completely different system. And from the
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Speaker 1: facts that we're hearing, there's a vested interest between this
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Speaker 1: cruise ship line and its stop off in San Juan.
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Speaker 1: It needs to stay populated and have a it needs
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Speaker 1: to have a good reputation. If it doesn't the local
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Speaker 1: economy suffers, Well, you are so right. You really hit
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Speaker 1: the nail on the head Jason Oceans, because the lawyer
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Speaker 1: Michael Winckelman has posed a lot of questions over the
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Speaker 1: regarding the integrity of the Puerto Rican prosecutors, even claiming
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Speaker 1: they have an ulterior motive and blaming the Granddad instead
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Speaker 1: of criticizing the world's biggest cruise line operator that sends
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Speaker 1: Puerto Rico millions and millions of dollars. It's their working theory.
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Speaker 1: But he goes on to state that he was surprised
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Speaker 1: there was an effort to try and have the case
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Speaker 1: even go forward overcharging I mean complete overcharging. It's not
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Speaker 1: even charging. I mean it would be an investigation into
34:29
Speaker 1: an an accident and having the ability is you know,
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Speaker 1: with all the cameras and everything has discussed, you'd be
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Speaker 1: able to see that. They don't want to see that,
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Speaker 1: and they don't want us to see that. And that's
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Speaker 1: why that chip and the codes have changed to retrofit it.
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Speaker 1: And if there was a ventilation problem, you don't fix
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Speaker 1: it with an open window or an accessible window on
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Speaker 1: eleventh floor overlooking the you know, in the children's zone,
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Speaker 1: with allege for sitting. I agree to ventilation close the
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Speaker 1: window to doctor Kendall Crowns, joining US Deputy Medical Examiner,
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Speaker 1: Travis County, Texas. What would officially be the cause of
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Speaker 1: death for this little talk? Chloe cause of death would
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Speaker 1: because she spawned from height, That's what I believe. It
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Speaker 1: was eleven stories, so that's about one hundred and nineteen feet,
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Speaker 1: so she would get major fractures and injuries to an
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Speaker 1: internal oregon, so her cause of death would be Bleu
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Speaker 1: force injuries. It was one hundred fifty feet one hundred
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Speaker 1: and fifty okay, yeah, because it went all the way
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Speaker 1: from the window down to cement, a cement dock where
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Speaker 1: the ship Freedom of the Seas was docked, a diet.
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Speaker 1: I'm looking at a diagram right now showing how Chloe
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Speaker 1: fell one hundred and fifty feet from the ship's eleventh
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Speaker 1: the deck to the hard cement below. Take a listen
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Speaker 1: to our friends at WPLG and the attorney Michael Winkelman.
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Speaker 1: The grandfather takes him over the windows. He thinks it's
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Speaker 1: all glass. There's a wood railing right there. He puts
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Speaker 1: her up on there and thinking that she's going to
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Speaker 1: bang on the glass, and it's going to be great,
36:05
Speaker 1: and she goes to being on the glass and the
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Speaker 1: next thing he knows, she's gone. He said, this was
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Speaker 1: a preventable injury. You talk about that absolutely. What was
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Speaker 1: preventable here was really I think, well Cribby needs to
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Speaker 1: answer this question is why would you ever in a
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Speaker 1: kid's play area put windows that passengers can open. A
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Speaker 1: fun fil family vacation that was set to take in
36:23
Speaker 1: the sights at San Juan, Saint Martin, Saint Kitts, Saint Lucia, Barbados,
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Speaker 1: all came to a grinding halt around four thirty in
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Speaker 1: the afternoon. Passengers in the dining area overlooking a pool
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Speaker 1: here screams they discovered this little girl lying motionless on
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Speaker 1: the cement. Pan American doc below we wait as justice unfalls.
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off Good Lifetime