Latest / The Parenting Podcast / When the Bills Change Hands | Ep. 229

Transcript

When the Bills Change Hands | Ep. 229 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Christie: I'm thinking of a couple of wrong motives for why you might want to pay for something i'm thinking of a really ugly word.
• 0:07
  Christie: Control.
• 0:10
  Speaker: When our kids are little, we expect to provide for them.
• 0:15
  Speaker: But as they get older, that line starts moving.
• 0:22
  Speaker: What do we still pay for?
• 0:25
  Speaker: When do we step in?
• 0:28
  Speaker: And when might helping actually get in the way?
• 0:34
  Speaker: Now, we left that question hanging last time, so we're coming back to it, and this time we're talking money
• 0:51
  Cheryl: Christie, Joanne, welcome in here today.
• 0:53
  Cheryl: Good to see
• 0:54
  Joanne: you.
• 0:54
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 0:54
  Cheryl: Both doing well?
• 0:55
  Joanne: Yeah, doing well.
• 0:56
  Joanne: A lot of- Yeah, thank you.
• 0:57
  Cheryl: Good.
• 0:58
  Cheryl: Okay, uh, we have to revisit a question you asked last time,
• 1:03
  Joanne: Joanne.
• 1:04
  Joanne: Didn't quite get answered, I thought.
• 1:06
  Joanne: That never happens around here.
• 1:07
  Christie: Sure.
• 1:08
  Cheryl: So
• 1:08
  Cheryl A: let's Just back up again because, if y'all are regular listeners, you know a lot of times end up talking about the bigger picture, and then we focus on- Mm-hmm the specific.
• 1:18
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 1:18
  Cheryl A: So go back and let's talk about what your specific question was, and let's dive into that today.
• 1:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:24
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 1:25
  Joanne: So okay, I came in with a question,, specifically regarding my young adult children.
• 1:30
  Joanne: And, uh, something that I was kinda grappling with is knowing how to financially help them, offer them that kinda support without crippling them.
• 1:41
  Joanne: Mm.
• 1:41
  Joanne: Oh.
• 1:41
  Joanne: And that's kinda like what we talked about last week of- Yeah when is it actually helpful and when is it hurting?
• 1:46
  Christie: Right.
• 1:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: And we didn't just talk about finance.
• 1:49
  Cheryl: We talked about, uh, the whole philosophy- Right parenting.
• 1:52
  Christie: Right.
• 1:53
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:53
  Cheryl: So upfront, there isn't an answer.
• 1:57
  Cheryl: But I would love to process this.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: It's so interesting because this morning when I was getting ready to come in here, somebody that I just, I don't talk to very regularly at all, and she had something of a practical nature that she had to call me about.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: And so then in our conversation, I was saying,"Well, okay, we're going in TPP, and we're gonna talk about this." And then she filled my ear going,"I cannot believe you are going in,"'cause it was to talk about exactly, she said,"I was just sitting here this morning struggling with this- Mm-hmm because I don't know what to do." And, it was, the same issue.
• 2:36
  Christie: Mm.
• 2:37
  Cheryl: Bigger, uh, a little bit further along- Mm-hmm age-wise, but a great kid, responsible, uh, all of this sort of thing, an adult with his own family but When do you step in and help?
• 2:53
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:54
  Cheryl: And when...
• 2:54
  Cheryl: She goes,"Cheryl, this is exactly, I wanna know what do we do?" Mm-hmm.
• 2:58
  Cheryl: Do, you know, how do we evaluate whether we should step in or whether we shouldn't?
• 3:05
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:06
  Cheryl: Uh, particularly- Mm-hmm we're gonna move out of young childhood, and let's look at teen and up when we're- Mm-hmm really trying to move the responsibility of their lives onto their shoulders.
• 3:17
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:17
  Cheryl: And we want to equip them and enable them, uh, but we don't want to be harsh or cruel when we have the ability.
• 3:25
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:25
  Cheryl: And there's the thing.
• 3:26
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 3:27
  Cheryl A: If you have no ability, all you can do is say,"I'm really sorry."
• 3:31
  Christie: Right.
• 3:31
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:31
  Cheryl: But when you have financial capacity to step in, she was saying, What do we do?"
• 3:38
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:38
  Cheryl: And I go,"Oh, by the way, that's what we're gonna be processing."
• 3:41
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:42
  Christie: Yeah, I mean, it is..., i feel like you're right.
• 3:44
  Christie: It's a common issue.
• 3:45
  Christie: Maybe other than, like, identity, like, feeling, taking things personally- Yeah that kind of thing.
• 3:50
  Christie: Mm-hmm,
• 3:51
  Joanne: right.
• 3:51
  Christie: Um-
• 3:51
  Joanne: Relationships and
• 3:52
  Christie: stuff.
• 3:52
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:53
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:53
  Christie: But financial help is really- Mm-hmm all we have Yeah you know, when they're out of our house,
• 3:59
  Joanne: yeah, I hear a lot of people talking, like when I mention something like that, like,"I'm not sure about this," I'm like,"Oh, my goodness, yeah.
• 4:04
  Joanne: I totally see that." Yeah, mm-hmm.
• 4:06
  Joanne: Because there's not really a clear-cut path through that.
• 4:10
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 4:10
  Joanne: Right?
• 4:10
  Joanne: It does take a little bit of, Right questioning and thinking through.
• 4:14
  Cheryl: Well, and since I did so much of my parenting as a widow with not a lot of financial resources at all, and, uh, I will say the community I was in everyone had a lot more financial capacity than I did and a lot more, um, zeros- Mm-hmm.
• 4:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm on the back of everything.
• 4:37
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:37
  Cheryl: I listened and watched and saw different people, how they handled things.
• 4:42
  Cheryl: And, um- It's hard.
• 4:46
  Cheryl: Y'all, I know of two
• 4:48
  Cheryl A: specific Times that I had friends actually open up to me and say,"Cheryl, this is going to sound really crazy, but I'm kinda envious of you." I said-
• 5:00
  Joanne: Really?
• 5:01
  Cheryl: Really."
• 5:01
  Joanne: Mm.
• 5:02
  Cheryl: They go,"Because you can't step in-
• 5:05
  Joanne: Mm.
• 5:06
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 5:06
  Cheryl: and bail your kids out."
• 5:08
  Joanne: Right.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: You can't step in and buy them a new Lexus or-
• 5:11
  Joanne: Yeah
• 5:12
  Cheryl: whatever it is, RAV4 or...
• 5:15
  Cheryl: You can't do all of that, and we are so burdened with responsibility-
• 5:20
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 5:21
  Cheryl: that we could actually do all of that."
• 5:22
  Joanne: Right.
• 5:23
  Joanne: Interesting.
• 5:24
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 5:24
  Cheryl: It, it was even, like, uh, mowing the yard.
• 5:28
  Cheryl: They all had lovely homes on nice big chunks of grass.
• 5:34
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 5:34
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 5:34
  Cheryl: And so it was a lot of work to be maintained and taken care of.
• 5:38
  Cheryl: And so my sons and our family, we had to maintain ours- Mm-hmm on a smaller yard, but they said,"It's really hard.
• 5:46
  Cheryl: We have the capacity to pay to have it done."
• 5:50
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 5:50
  Cheryl: And they had to make such a conscious decision Whether they were going to
• 5:55
  Cheryl A: pay for it Or not for the benefit of their children.
• 5:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:58
  Christie: Oh.
• 5:59
  Christie: Yeah, I, I feel that same thing, Cheryl, just, like, our capacity was limited compared to the people around us- Yeah as well.
• 6:07
  Christie: The number of kids and the- Mm-hmm number of dollars coming in- Yeah didn't quite spread the same.
• 6:12
  Christie: And so I do feel like a lot of these decisions- Mm-hmm that we're talking about have been made for us, and my kids were aware of what our standings were and what ability we had to help out.
• 6:23
  Christie: And, um, I would say, well, say, like, that's changed as we don't have kids- Yeah in the house.
• 6:29
  Christie: We have a little bit more, more margin.
• 6:31
  Christie: Slightly.
• 6:31
  Christie: And it has shifted a little bit, so that's given us some of those question marks of, like, well, now that we can do a little more- Mm-hmm should we be doing more?
• 6:40
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:41
  Cheryl: I think that's excellent.
• 6:42
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 6:42
  Cheryl: I think should really- Yeah is the word.
• 6:45
  Cheryl: Uh, of course, we wanna say there's grace and mercy in all of this.
• 6:49
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 6:49
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 6:50
  Cheryl: There are places just to step in.
• 6:52
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:52
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 6:53
  Cheryl: Okay, so we understand that, but that's a rescue-
• 6:56
  Joanne: Right.
• 6:57
  Cheryl: Right sort of situation, and we're not talking about that.
• 6:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:59
  Cheryl: There's no question we would do- Yeah what we needed to do in a crisis.
• 7:04
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:04
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 7:04
  Cheryl: Okay, so let's remove crises out of the way- Mm-hmm.
• 7:07
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and let's talk about normal, real, regular life.
• 7:12
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 7:12
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 7:12
  Cheryl: Like, do I pay for it?
• 7:14
  Cheryl: Do they pay for it?
• 7:15
  Cheryl: How do we do it?
• 7:16
  Cheryl: And again, I like what we did last time, all the questions
• 7:20
  Joanne: Right
• 7:21
  Cheryl: that we should be asking so we can analyze- Right and figure out what is our role-
• 7:26
  Joanne: Right
• 7:26
  Cheryl: and what is best for our children.
• 7:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:28
  Joanne: Right.
• 7:29
  Joanne: Well, like, you know, for example, like, my kids are in college and- Mm-hmm with the hopes of, having a career one day to be able to fully financially support themselves.
• 7:39
  Joanne: So there is that little bit of, they can't work as many hours, you know- Yeah because they've got demanding coursework, and so,, it's a little more nuanced of hey, we wanna help support them in, what is hopefully gonna be a good opportunity, but not, shield them from the financial responsibilities of life.
• 7:56
  Joanne: So we're trying to, just incrementally, you know- Mm-hmm have them be responsible for some things but know that they can't do all the things yet.
• 8:05
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:05
  Christie: Does that make sense?
• 8:05
  Christie: You want it to be just enough to be a little heavy and uncomfortable-
• 8:10
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 8:10
  Christie: but not so much that it overwhelms them- Right.
• 8:13
  Christie: Yeah where- Yes it burdens them to the point of not growing through it.
• 8:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:19
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 8:19
  Cheryl: And there we go.
• 8:20
  Cheryl: There's the should question again.
• 8:21
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 8:22
  Cheryl: You know, we can-
• 8:24
  Christie: But should
• 8:24
  Cheryl: we?
• 8:24
  Cheryl: but should we?
• 8:25
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 8:25
  Cheryl: And one of the things I like, is the word agency.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: Help me define that because people kind of go,"Yeah, I hear that word." Agency is, what would you say, taking responsibility for my part in something?
• 8:41
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:41
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:41
  Cheryl: Would that be what agency is?
• 8:42
  Christie: Yeah, I think so.
• 8:43
  Christie: Yeah, that
• 8:43
  Joanne: sounds right to me.
• 8:45
  Cheryl: Okay, because we have the responsibility to let them take the responsibility- Yeah.
• 8:51
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 8:51
  Cheryl: on their shoulders.
• 8:52
  Cheryl: But then in these nuanced areas, when they're really not capable of doing it or, wow, if I stepped in- Mm-hmm they could have a car that was more reliable-
• 9:05
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 9:05
  Cheryl: at this time when they don't have the money, it's really hard.
• 9:10
  Cheryl A: But I Don't wanna take away from their agency-
• 9:12
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 9:14
  Cheryl: but I want to empower them.
• 9:16
  Christie: Yeah.
• 9:16
  Cheryl: If I can.
• 9:17
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:17
  Cheryl: There are places where I absolutely couldn't have done it.
• 9:19
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:20
  Christie: Yeah.
• 9:20
  Cheryl: I could not buy all my children cars.
• 9:22
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:22
  Cheryl: Period.
• 9:23
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:23
  Cheryl: Even clunkers.
• 9:24
  Cheryl: I just had too many- Mm-hmm people driving at the same time.
• 9:27
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 9:27
  Cheryl: You know?
• 9:29
  Cheryl: But y'all, I, I saw the great benefits of what happened with my kids and the maturity and the work ethic, so God really used it in my children's lives, in their character, but it was hard.
• 9:41
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 9:41
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 9:42
  Cheryl: And, uh, we had to talk through a lot of that because so many of their friends had everything just handed to them.
• 9:49
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:49
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 9:50
  Cheryl: And when you're a mature adult and you've lived your life, you can see, wow, look at the benefit- Mm-hmm that that was to me.
• 9:58
  Cheryl: But it's really hard in real time when they're having to work so hard-
• 10:02
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 10:03
  Cheryl: and they have bought a, car that's older and clunkier- Yeah and their friends pull up in the really nice, beautiful- Mm-hmm everything provided for them.
• 10:11
  Cheryl: That's where I like the conversation- Mm-hmm that we talk about the reality with our kids.
• 10:16
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 10:16
  Joanne: Right.
• 10:17
  Cheryl: And this is why we're doing it, and that you and Chris figure it all out together and talk about it with the kind of questions we've- Mm-hmm been talking about, and then let's sit down and talk
• 10:28
  Cheryl A: with them about Why we're doing what we're doing and Right what we want to do.
• 10:33
  Christie: Yeah, and I think talking with them too about why we're doing things the way we are.
• 10:38
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:39
  Christie: You know, I, I have said to my kids,"Hey, you know, we are choosing to help with this because we wanna be a blessing to you, and we feel like that's more than you can handle." Mm-hmm.
• 10:49
  Christie: "But we're gonna let you take care of this because we know that, you know, you need to have that ownership," or you- Mm-hmm.
• 10:55
  Christie: Right whatever the reasoning is.
• 10:56
  Christie: And I think just like when they're young, that helps for them to- Mm-hmm hear our thought process behind it.
• 11:02
  Christie: It helps them to not feel like we don't care- Mm-hmm but also that we're being intentional in passing that responsibility on to them.
• 11:11
  Cheryl: Um- Okay, I think a good example of that would be the cleaning of the house.
• 11:16
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:16
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:16
  Cheryl: Okay?
• 11:17
  Cheryl: A two and a half, three-year-old can help put silverware in the dishwasher, or at least unload the silverware into the drawer.
• 11:26
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 11:26
  Cheryl: I want them to do that.
• 11:28
  Cheryl: That's giving them agency.
• 11:30
  Cheryl: They don't like it.
• 11:30
  Cheryl: They would rather be playing, but this is the right
• 11:33
  Cheryl A: step.
• 11:33
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 11:34
  Cheryl A: And then in our house, as you got taller, you got to move up the ladder in the loading and unloading of a dishwasher.
• 11:40
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 11:41
  Cheryl A: We moved up that ladder.
• 11:42
  Cheryl A: but, We Didn't expect a six-year-old to clean the entire house all by themselves-
• 11:48
  Joanne: Right
• 11:48
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm, good example
• 11:49
  Joanne: right.
• 11:49
  Joanne: That's good.
• 11:50
  Cheryl: And we have to do the same thing in finances.
• 11:53
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 11:54
  Cheryl: I think it's incremental.
• 11:55
  Cheryl: We want to work with them, show them how to do it, and then I like what you're talking about.
• 12:00
  Cheryl: Keep moving more and more onto their plate, but, um, if we're blessed to be in a position we don't have to give it all to them-
• 12:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 12:08
  Cheryl: that we can walk alongside- Right"Let me help you out on this," or I like what you said y'all did, saying,"We'll take this portion, but this portion is yours."
• 12:17
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:18
  Christie: I'm thinking of a couple of wrong motives of why you might want to pay for something.
• 12:23
  Cheryl: Only a couple?
• 12:25
  Christie: A couple come to mind right away, but speaking to what you're saying, like, there are a lot of things that we could not cover for our kids- Yeah that maybe other families could.
• 12:36
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 12:36
  Christie: And I have found myself, um, kind of supplementing or compensating for that- Yeah by covering other things, which I think is right and good.
• 12:45
  Christie: Like, we couldn't write a full check for tuition for four kids for four years, so, but I've always said, like,"We've got these bedrooms.
• 12:53
  Christie: You can live here for free." You know- Yeah we offer some support in that way.
• 12:57
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 12:58
  Christie: Uh, but I have noticed that at times I can want to overcompensate- Yeah for that and feel bad, like you're saying.
• 13:05
  Christie: I'm sorry that we weren't able to buy brand-new cars for everyone at 16.
• 13:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:10
  Christie: Let me overcompensate with these other things, and that's something that I feel like I have to watch out for.
• 13:16
  Christie: Oh, that's good.
• 13:16
  Cheryl: Oh, Christie, you're talking about my mind.
• 13:18
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:20
  Cheryl: I mean, I would just say they lost their dad.
• 13:23
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 13:24
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 13:24
  Christie: Right.
• 13:25
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:25
  Cheryl: How can I not help compensate somewhere else?
• 13:27
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: How can I not take that burden off of them?
• 13:30
  Cheryl: I mean, I struggled with it all the time.
• 13:33
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:33
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 13:34
  Cheryl: Think, it was so hard because they hurt so much." Mm-hmm.
• 13:38
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:38
  Cheryl: I don't want to add more hurt.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: I want to alleviate some of the pain.
• 13:42
  Cheryl: I mean-
• 13:43
  Christie: Yeah
• 13:44
  Cheryl: all listeners are going,"I hope y'all are getting all the good counseling- all the time," But this is the processing of it.
• 13:50
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Cheryl: Realizing- Right and, and I realized even at the time, that wasn't healthy.
• 13:55
  Christie: Right.
• 13:56
  Cheryl: But you're talking about motivation.
• 13:57
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:58
  Cheryl: It was really hard-
• 14:00
  Christie: Yeah
• 14:01
  Cheryl: to say,"I'm not supposed to do this." Yes.
• 14:04
  Cheryl: "I'm not gonna do it.
• 14:05
  Cheryl: I'll walk alongside of you, but I'm not gonna take on that financially."
• 14:09
  Christie: Right.
• 14:09
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:10
  Christie: The other thing I'm thinking of is, um, a really ugly word.
• 14:15
  Cheryl: Oh.
• 14:15
  Christie: Control.
• 14:17
  Christie: Oh.
• 14:17
  Christie: Sometimes we pay for things because we want to choose the school they go to- Yeah or we want to choose- Yeah how they're making their dec- Mm you know, I will buy this car, but I'm going to choose which car, or- Mm-hmm I will pay for the wedding, but I'm gonna make the decisions- Mm-hmm on how it's done, and I've been guilty of that before, too.
• 14:37
  Christie: Want, tempted to say,"I want it a certain way, so I'm gonna pay for it to be that way." Mm.
• 14:42
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 14:43
  Cheryl: Interesting.
• 14:43
  Cheryl: However, I see a nuance in that, though, because if I've got skin in the game, I have to decide whether I have the appropriate right to set some parameters.
• 14:54
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 14:55
  Christie: Sure.
• 14:55
  Cheryl: You know?, But it's not a black- Mm-hmm and white decision.
• 14:58
  Cheryl: Um, for example, you mentioned about college.
• 15:03
  Cheryl: I have parents bring this question to me all the time.
• 15:06
  Cheryl: "What do we do?
• 15:07
  Cheryl: Do we have the right to say this?" And I go,"How much are you paying for it?"
• 15:11
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 15:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:11
  Cheryl: So if you're not paying for anything, nope, you can have conversations, but you have- Yeah No, no say in the matter.
• 15:16
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:16
  Christie: Right.
• 15:17
  Cheryl: But for example, if they're going to school and you're paying anything in it, you have the right to require certain standards.
• 15:26
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 15:26
  Cheryl: If they're not going to class, if they're not getting their grades.
• 15:29
  Cheryl: In fact, about two weeks ago, somebody came and said,"Wow, we were helping them out with what they're doing, and again, they have just not gone to class." And this was even this was young, an 18-year-old, and they're not doing it.
• 15:43
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 15:44
  Cheryl: And I said,"Then why are you paying for more classes?
• 15:46
  Cheryl: Why do you- Right.
• 15:46
  Joanne: Oh
• 15:47
  Cheryl: feel you have a responsibility to
• 15:49
  Cheryl A: keep paying for This?" Because I think that's the much bigger picture.
• 15:56
  Cheryl A: You're enabling them to build all the wrong habits- Mm-hmm everything, and saying,"It's okay- Right don't worry.
• 16:04
  Cheryl A: Right we'll bail you out no matter what you do." Yeah.
• 16:07
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 16:07
  Cheryl A: And that's where it's different.
• 16:08
  Cheryl A: Like- Right if y'all are trying to figure out- Mm-hmm where do we pay in college, what do we do?
• 16:12
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: But I would
• 16:13
  Cheryl A: suggest say Upfront, and that's when, in our processing and conversation, I said,"You you two decide what it is." Then we sit down and go,"Okay, this is what we ask of you." Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 16:25
  Cheryl A: So It is transactional- Right.
• 16:26
  Christie: Right
• 16:27
  Cheryl: because we care about the development of you as a human being more than we care about the money or the schooling.
• 16:33
  Christie: And that might be an indicator light too, that, okay, this is time to pass- Yeah that back onto them.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: Oh,
• 16:40
  Joanne: that's good.
• 16:40
  Joanne: So this makes me think, you know, so, okay, so we're creating, like, a list of really good questions- Yeah to approach any situation with.
• 16:46
  Joanne: So we're gonna add, are we financing bad decisions?
• 16:49
  Joanne: Oh, okay.
• 16:49
  Joanne: Right?
• 16:49
  Joanne: So that's what that falls into.
• 16:51
  Joanne: And then it just makes me think about, and thankfully, I I don't have this problem with my kids, but I think it's important to ask, is this, a one-time issue?
• 16:59
  Joanne: Or is this- Yeah a pattern of irresponsibility or bad decisions?
• 17:03
  Christie: Yes.
• 17:04
  Joanne: Or, taking advantage.
• 17:05
  Joanne: I think we all have met- Mm some of those people out there who are spoiled and entitled- Mm and they just expect everything to be handed to them.
• 17:12
  Joanne: Yeah, that is
• 17:12
  Christie: a really good one.
• 17:13
  Joanne: I've, met many people like that too, and so we don't want that.
• 17:18
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 17:18
  Cheryl: I really like this.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:20
  Cheryl: I think pattern should be written in big, bold words-
• 17:23
  Joanne: Right
• 17:24
  Cheryl: whenever you are processing this.
• 17:26
  Cheryl: What kind of pattern are you seeing?
• 17:27
  Cheryl: Is this a person, or a child that has a good pattern of working hard and doing what they're supposed to do- Yeah.
• 17:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm but something's upside down, or they got hit with a medical bill they weren't expecting- Yeah.
• 17:39
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm whatever.
• 17:40
  Cheryl: Car issues Oh, we might revisit our- Right our decision because what we're seeing, we want to encourage you and help you.
• 17:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:50
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:50
  Cheryl: I think we should always smell real well, is there any entitlement in this?
• 17:56
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 17:56
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 17:57
  Cheryl: But there's a place for generosity.
• 17:59
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 17:59
  Cheryl: Again, I was talking- Yeah with someone, and they were saying,"We were really generous helping, but the
• 18:06
  Cheryl A: child Didn't handle the money well."
• 18:07
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 18:08
  Cheryl: They didn't use it well.
• 18:09
  Cheryl: They weren't open to anyone helping them to use that money well." And so I do this also with nonprofits and charities There's one that I'm particularly looking at getting involved in to, contribute to, but I go and look at what their finances
• 18:26
  Cheryl A: are What kind of reputation do they have- Mm-hmm in the field.
• 18:29
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 18:29
  Cheryl A: Are there any red flags with their paying opulently to their staff instead of taking care of the people- Mm-hmm they're supposed to be involved in.
• 18:37
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 18:38
  Cheryl A: That's an appropriate evaluation.
• 18:40
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 18:41
  Joanne: I like that.
• 18:41
  Joanne: That's a good approach.
• 18:42
  Christie: I have an example of that, a, like a real-life example.
• 18:45
  Christie: Um, we had a couple of adult children living at our house, and we had a few household contributions that we asked for them to- Uh-huh do, some chores, and, um-
• 18:58
  Cheryl: Yeah, so you mean contribute chores.
• 19:00
  Christie: Rather than paying rent- Mm-hmm they, they were to take care of some of the household- Yeah things.
• 19:04
  Christie: Well, so it was going really well.
• 19:06
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:06
  Christie: And then they both had just crazy busy weeks for, you know, legitimate reasons.
• 19:12
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 19:12
  Christie: Work, you know, they're both working full time, and one of them was taking classes, and so- those things didn't get done- Mm-hmm a couple of times.
• 19:22
  Christie: And so I, I knew that they had been busy, and I thought,"You know, I'll just do it." Mm-hmm.
• 19:26
  Christie: I wasn't working much at all at the time, and I had the margin, and so I was like,"I'll just be a blessing to them and do it." Well, in comes entitlement a few weeks in.
• 19:36
  Christie: Oh.
• 19:36
  Christie: They were just dependent on me doing that.
• 19:38
  Christie: Mm.
• 19:38
  Christie: And so I had never done this before, but I was like,"Okay, this is the charge that I'm attaching to these responsibilities," and they- Wow were to pay me that price.
• 19:51
  Christie: And I said,"You know, if you were living on your own- Wow and you had a busy week, you would- Uh-huh need to hire someone to come in and do these things." Oh.
• 19:58
  Christie: So-
• 19:59
  Cheryl: Well done
• 20:00
  Christie: now I'm attaching- That's a good lesson you know, a, a bill- Okay for them to do.
• 20:03
  Cheryl: And how did that work for you?
• 20:05
  Christie: It went well.
• 20:05
  Christie: They understood.
• 20:06
  Christie: Good.
• 20:06
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:06
  Christie: They- That's great they saw the logic in it, and they were like,"Yeah, we- I think that's great both were busy, and..." And it may
• 20:11
  Joanne: be worth the money to them when some weeks they
• 20:13
  Christie: get very busy.
• 20:14
  Christie: Well, yeah, one of them actually wanted to hire me from then on out.
• 20:16
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:16
  Christie: I was like,"No, that's not really how this is gonna work."
• 20:19
  Cheryl: I'll double my fee if I want you.
• 20:20
  Christie: Yeah, she's like- All right"I'm making decent money.
• 20:22
  Christie: I don't mind paying you." It's so
• 20:23
  Cheryl: And then I love the kindness that you showed.
• 20:26
  Cheryl: There is a place to say,"Don't worry about it.
• 20:29
  Cheryl: I'll take, it."
• 20:30
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:30
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:30
  Cheryl: Go back to your word pattern.
• 20:32
  Cheryl: When you see the pattern is-
• 20:34
  Joanne: Mm
• 20:34
  Cheryl: maturity and they're working hard, and they're trying-
• 20:37
  Joanne: Right.
• 20:37
  Cheryl: Yeah and there's this, an appropriate place to say,"Don't worry about it.
• 20:40
  Cheryl: I'll get that."
• 20:41
  Joanne: Right.
• 20:41
  Joanne: When they're working hard and you are able to lessen their load, yeah.
• 20:44
  Joanne: When you know it's not gonna enable them well, and just thinking back to, agency-
• 20:49
  Christie: Uh-huh
• 20:49
  Joanne: uh, your word.
• 20:50
  Joanne: I know just my own personal experience, the times I've had to work hard for something, like, I tended to really take care of- Yeah or- Mm just feel much more satisfied by or sense of gratitude for-
• 21:04
  Christie: Yeah
• 21:05
  Joanne: the things that, I had to really work for- Right versus giving.
• 21:08
  Joanne: And so that's something else I'd love, for my kids is,
• 21:10
  Christie: Uh-huh
• 21:11
  Joanne: I remember I went to a very wealthy high school, and this one girl, she just ha- was a terrible, terrible driver, and she had a brand-new car.
• 21:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:20
  Joanne: She ended up, driving into one of those, like, cement, like, posts.
• 21:23
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 21:23
  Christie: Oh, my goodness.
• 21:23
  Joanne: And it went right through the hood, you know?
• 21:26
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 21:26
  Joanne: And the next day at school, she just pulls up in another car, still driving horrendously.
• 21:33
  Joanne: You know, and so those kinds of things- Mm-hmm are always at the back of my mind,, okay, I may have been driving a clunker in high school, but I loved that thing, yeah.
• 21:40
  Joanne: I took good care of it, I was so proud, right?
• 21:42
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 21:43
  Joanne: 'Cause I had a little bit of, that skin in the game, like you- Right you've, I hear you say.
• 21:46
  Christie: All my kids, they all bought their first cars.
• 21:49
  Christie: They started working part time.
• 21:51
  Christie: I drove them to- Yeah to work, and then they would save their money up and buy their own first cars.
• 21:56
  Christie: And they have all come back, they're all 20 and up now, and told me that compared to their friends who were just handed- Oh, yeah vehicles, they felt very proud.
• 22:07
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:07
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:07
  Christie: You know, the healthy kind of pride that they, um...
• 22:10
  Christie: satisfaction, you know.
• 22:11
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:12
  Christie: That they had worked hard and watched the dollars add up, and then owned it for themselves with no debt.
• 22:17
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:17
  Christie: And I think it's of real value.
• 22:20
  Cheryl: And now, don't, don't smile at me, but you know how I love to say, does science and legitimate studies back this up in any way?
• 22:28
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:28
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:28
  Joanne: Okay, tell us.
• 22:30
  Joanne: What'd you find out?
• 22:30
  Cheryl: So this is gonna back up what we're talking about here.
• 22:34
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 22:35
  Cheryl: In high school, I had a class about, what a bank account is and how you balance your
• 22:39
  Cheryl A: checkbook And how you do budgets and practical stuff of finances.
• 22:43
  Cheryl A: Yes, it's important.
• 22:44
  Cheryl A: Our kids do need to know that and it's popular in some circles that you do it, and you have- It's
• 22:49
  Joanne: required, actually- Mm in Oklahoma- Yeah I think.
• 22:52
  Cheryl: Oh, is it?
• 22:53
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:53
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 22:53
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:53
  Christie: It is.
• 22:53
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 22:54
  Cheryl: So this is really great, but that's the baseline.
• 22:56
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 22:57
  Cheryl: there's no effect on that and how people really live their lives.
• 23:01
  Cheryl: It's just good information.
• 23:02
  Christie: Right.
• 23:03
  Cheryl: All right?
• 23:04
  Cheryl: But what they found out that young adults who have experience managing money, like what you were talking about- Mm-hmm that they're making choices, budgeting, saving, spending, living within their budget with their choices, that actually in their adult life they have greater financial, like, self-efficacy and health- Mm that it carries over into adult life.
• 23:31
  Cheryl: That's amazing.
• 23:31
  Cheryl: Wow, okay.
• 23:31
  Cheryl: So that really actually doing it in teenage years- Mm-hmm in our home or as young adults, that actually they have a much healthier financial life rather than- Mm those who just have the information.
• 23:44
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:44
  Christie: Nice.
• 23:44
  Christie: No, I've seen that in real time- Yeah for sure.
• 23:47
  Cheryl: I have, too.
• 23:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:48
  Christie: And just discipline.
• 23:50
  Christie: I mean, it, it- Mm.
• 23:51
  Christie: There's a million things that, you know, if they're busy working hard for something- Mm-hmm that is enjoyable for them, they're not doing a crazy other million things- Yeah.
• 24:00
  Christie: that they could be doing and it's-
• 24:02
  Joanne: Right
• 24:02
  Christie: it's a really, I think, good thing to start that as early as you can.
• 24:06
  Cheryl: Well- Yeah.
• 24:06
  Cheryl: I like that I mean, there's just so much to it.
• 24:08
  Cheryl: Delayed gratification.
• 24:09
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 24:10
  Cheryl: Look at what your daughters learned over the long haul,"I have to go and work and I'm getting nothing from it.
• 24:18
  Cheryl: I have my own car."
• 24:19
  Christie: Right.
• 24:20
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 24:20
  Cheryl: Instead of that girl in high school.
• 24:22
  Cheryl: Unless something radical happens in her life, why would she change?
• 24:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:26
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 24:27
  Cheryl: What would be motivating- True her to change?
• 24:29
  Christie: Right.
• 24:30
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 24:31
  Cheryl: How sad.
• 24:33
  Cheryl: That the culture might say,"Wow, what a lucky girl she is.
• 24:37
  Cheryl: Isn't it amazing?
• 24:38
  Cheryl: She's got everything
• 24:40
  Joanne: Well, and gosh, it, this reminds me of an interview but you guys know Kurt Cobain, the lead singer- Mm-hmm of Nirvana.
• 24:45
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 24:46
  Joanne: And so he struggled with mental illness and substance abuse, and tragically took his life.
• 24:51
  Joanne: Oh.
• 24:51
  Joanne: You know, it was a very sad story.
• 24:52
  Joanne: But he was interviewed one time, and the interviewer was asking him, um,, how amazing life must be now that he had all the wealth and could buy- Yeah anything that he wanted.
• 25:02
  Cheryl: Fame.
• 25:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:03
  Joanne: Yeah, you know, money was not an issue anymore, and he said something that really stuck with me.
• 25:07
  Joanne: Mm.
• 25:07
  Joanne: He said he found more satisfaction in the days when he would go to, like, a thrift store and buy something with money that he really had to save- Mm and earn than he did now that he had all the wealth and didn't really have to struggle anymore- Wow.
• 25:21
  Joanne: Mm and could just buy anything.
• 25:23
  Joanne: And I thought,"How sad," especially knowing-
• 25:24
  Christie: Yeah
• 25:25
  Joanne: his struggles.
• 25:26
  Joanne: Yes.
• 25:26
  Joanne: And, um, so yeah, I mean, that's a very dramatic example.
• 25:29
  Joanne: Sure.
• 25:29
  Joanne: I know.
• 25:30
  Joanne: But very
• 25:30
  Christie: insightful.
• 25:30
  Joanne: Beautiful.
• 25:31
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:31
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:31
  Joanne: So it's not buying their happiness.
• 25:34
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 25:34
  Joanne: I know we don't want them to struggle, and I know we don't want them to have that discomfort,'cause it can bring us so much.
• 25:40
  Joanne: But- Right um, it can be really good for them.
• 25:43
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 25:43
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:43
  Christie: I, I agree.
• 25:45
  Cheryl: That's really good.
• 25:46
  Cheryl: Okay one of the things that I think is just a great way to do this, it's a little bit on your plate more, and more, is the idea of matching.
• 25:56
  Cheryl: And I knew parents that did that, They would say,"Okay, let's sit down and talk about it, and we will match."
• 26:02
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 26:03
  Joanne: Oh,
• 26:03
  Cheryl: okay.
• 26:03
  Cheryl: And they could choose, depending on their financial situation or what they felt led to do- Mm-hmm dollar for dollar or whatever-
• 26:10
  Joanne: Right
• 26:10
  Cheryl: you save up, and we'll match.
• 26:12
  Joanne: So for, like, what for
• 26:13
  Cheryl: example?
• 26:13
  Cheryl: Like for
• 26:14
  Joanne: a car.
• 26:15
  Joanne: Like a
• 26:15
  Cheryl: car, okay.
• 26:15
  Cheryl: Okay?
• 26:15
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:15
  Cheryl: So whatever you earn, we will match that.
• 26:18
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 26:19
  Cheryl: And so how motivational is that?
• 26:21
  Cheryl: Oh, yeah.
• 26:22
  Cheryl: So that means if I work really hard- I'm gonna get a much nicer car.
• 26:25
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:26
  Christie: You have to be
• 26:26
  Joanne: careful with that, though.
• 26:27
  Christie: Right?
• 26:28
  Christie: Or you can put a cap on it- Yeah.
• 26:30
  Christie: and say up to this certain point.
• 26:31
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:31
  Christie: We, a place we did something like this, we actually would say, like, a dollar amount that we were contributing.
• 26:38
  Christie: Oh, okay.
• 26:38
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:38
  Christie: But we did it with prom.
• 26:40
  Christie: If you can imagine, girls and prom can get very expensive.
• 26:42
  Christie: Wow.
• 26:42
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:43
  Christie: People do all different degrees of, you know, crazy with prom.
• 26:47
  Christie: And then so far we've only had one wedding, but we did the same thing- Yeah.
• 26:50
  Christie: Oh where we said,"This is the amount of money we have to offer you." Okay.
• 26:54
  Christie: "You're welcome to do anything on top of that of your own money, but this is what we can contribute."
• 26:59
  Cheryl: I, it's-
• 26:59
  Christie: And it does regulate the decision-making and how elaborate they wanna be.
• 27:05
  Christie: Okay.
• 27:05
  Christie: And yeah.
• 27:06
  Christie: I love that.
• 27:07
  Cheryl: It was so interesting, I didn't know you were gonna use that example,'cause I was getting ready to say there's college- And their weddings
• 27:14
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 27:15
  Cheryl: And now people- Yeah are spending on weddings what used to be a college education- Yeah,
• 27:20
  Christie: right
• 27:20
  Cheryl: easily.
• 27:21
  Christie: Sure.
• 27:21
  Cheryl: And I love this.
• 27:22
  Cheryl: I love hearing from people That I know in my life, and they role-modeled it.
• 27:28
  Cheryl: That's what they did.
• 27:29
  Cheryl: They came and said,"This is how much money.
• 27:32
  Cheryl: You can go on a honeymoon on it." Mm-hmm.
• 27:36
  Cheryl: "You can put it towards a house." Mm-hmm.
• 27:36
  Cheryl: "Whatever you wanna do, but this is how much we'll spend, and then you get to do whatever you want to with it." Yeah.
• 27:42
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 27:42
  Cheryl: And I- Yeah loved what I saw of the fruit of that, the wisdom, because I've seen a whole lot of parents, particularly as the cost of weddings is so beyond reasonable-
• 27:55
  Joanne: Yeah
• 27:56
  Cheryl: they feel the guilt
• 27:57
  Cheryl A: comparing what Everybody's done.
• 27:59
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 28:00
  Cheryl A: Decide what you as a couple- Mm-hmm or individual, what you're going to offer privately- Yeah each child if there's a wedding, and then let them figure out what- Right they wanna do.
• 28:10
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 28:10
  Joanne: I love this,'cause what it's doing really is what we always talk about is most important, is protecting that relationship.
• 28:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:17
  Joanne: So if you get the expectations out there and they know what they're getting going in-
• 28:22
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 28:23
  Joanne: you know, that's just so much healthier than, you know, having, like, these, you know, unspoken expectations and then lots- Yes of conflict and stuff and yeah.
• 28:32
  Joanne: I guess I've kinda done that in a very small way, and I hadn't thought to apply it to bigger things,'cause I guess- Yeah I'm there now.
• 28:38
  Joanne: But, like, with clothing-
• 28:39
  Christie: Uh-huh
• 28:40
  Joanne: for example, I would do one of two things.
• 28:42
  Joanne: I'd either say,"Hey, um, uh, I'll buy you some clothes, but we're gonna shop at these stores."
• 28:46
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 28:46
  Joanne: Or, you know,"If you're not okay with that, then, you know, you might have to fund that yourself." Mm-hmm.
• 28:50
  Joanne: Or, um, I had one kid just say,"Well, could you just give me the money?
• 28:55
  Joanne: And I'm okay with just one T-shirt." You know, my kid- Yeah spent his whole clothing budget on one- Right T-shirt versus...
• 29:02
  Joanne: And then it was just like,"Okay," you know?
• 29:03
  Joanne: And but then just being okay with that.
• 29:05
  Joanne: Yes.
• 29:05
  Joanne: Like, it's not how I would do things.
• 29:08
  Joanne: Right.
• 29:08
  Joanne: Like, I would rather you pick out, a variety of items.
• 29:11
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 29:11
  Joanne: But if you just want one really expensive shirt, by all means.
• 29:14
  Christie: We did the exact same thing.
• 29:16
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:16
  Christie: And we would have different kids make different choices too.
• 29:18
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Christie: And then they're looking at each other like- either you're crazy or, gosh, maybe I shouldn't have bought this one shirt for the price of 10.
• 29:27
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:28
  Cheryl: But I think that is excellent parenting.
• 29:31
  Cheryl: Uh-huh.
• 29:31
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 29:31
  Cheryl: And then"Okay, there are a whole lot more dollar zeros added to it when you're looking at college or a wedding."
• 29:39
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 29:39
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 29:39
  Cheryl: But I would say go through the same process.
• 29:42
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 29:43
  Cheryl A: Decide ahead of time,
• 29:45
  Cheryl: It's not fair September of their freshman year to go,"By the way, you have to pay for all this."
• 29:50
  Christie: Right.
• 29:51
  Cheryl A: Decide Ahead of time, if you're married, that let's talk realistically.
• 29:56
  Cheryl A: We will decide what we think about this." Mm-hmm.
• 29:58
  Christie: Right.
• 29:59
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:59
  Cheryl: But let's have these conversations, and then this is where we feel our part is, You have to decide what you want to do with the reality of your situation, and again, individually with each child, how they've handled it, what their pattern is, what their track record is, and then come ahead and sit down and say,"Okay, we're looking at maybe if you're gonna go to university, this is what we feel like we would like to do," whatever that is.
• 30:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 30:28
  Cheryl: Matching funds- Mm-hmm,
• 30:29
  Joanne: mm-hmm
• 30:30
  Cheryl: or we will give X amount, or it's tied to your success if you want to do that.
• 30:37
  Cheryl: But you come ahead of time and you're- Mm-hmm laying it all out.
• 30:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 30:40
  Cheryl: I mean, when you go to a job interview and they say,"We want to offer you the job," you go,"Well, show me.
• 30:46
  Cheryl: How many hours do I work?
• 30:48
  Cheryl: How much, PTO do I get?
• 30:50
  Cheryl: How much vacation do I get?
• 30:52
  Cheryl: Um, how will you compensate me for this and this?" And you lay it all out so you can make your decision based on what the reality is.
• 30:59
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 30:59
  Cheryl: Or, um, which mortgage you're gonna take on your house and how you're gonna finance it.
• 31:05
  Cheryl: You get it all down on paper so that there are no surprises.
• 31:08
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 31:08
  Cheryl: And I think that's a really great way to do these particularly big financial things-
• 31:13
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 31:15
  Cheryl: that suddenly surprise you when you go,"Oh, we were thinking about T-shirts and gym shorts and basketballs.
• 31:21
  Cheryl: And prom."
• 31:22
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 31:23
  Cheryl: But we forgot about these looming big deals." And then talk about how much you love them and how you want to empower them.
• 31:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 31:30
  Cheryl: But this is what we feel our fair share is or what we feel like we're supposed to do.
• 31:34
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 31:35
  Joanne: Okay.
• 31:36
  Joanne: I like it.
• 31:36
  Joanne: That sounds great.
• 31:37
  Joanne: I think it's very helpful.
• 31:39
  Joanne: So, you know, that, this is really great advice.
• 31:42
  Joanne: I do think I still feel a little bit of apprehension just knowing, you know, it's, these aren't gonna be easy things or easy questions.
• 31:50
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 31:51
  Joanne: You know, taking a thoughtful approach to anything requires some work- Mm-hmm and some diligence, and so, um, you know, but knowing that, I think this is great.
• 31:58
  Joanne: This gives me, um, a little bit more of a way forward Yeah than I had before, so.
• 32:04
  Christie: It's just really unfortunate that it doesn't- Yeah ever get to be really all that easy.
• 32:09
  Joanne: I know, right?
• 32:10
  Joanne: Can't someone just tell me
• 32:11
  Christie: what to do?
• 32:12
  Cheryl: right?
• 32:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm you're right.
• 32:14
  Cheryl: If you wanna do it well, it's all this evaluation.
• 32:17
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 32:18
  Cheryl: And I wish I'd had all those questions.
• 32:20
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 32:20
  Cheryl: Thank y'all so much.
• 32:21
  Joanne: Oh, thank you.
• 32:21
  Joanne: Thank you.
• 32:23
  Cheryl: Hey, parents, remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it's worth it.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe the better question isn't simply can we help or should we?
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Sometimes generosity is simply a good gift, an expression of encouragement, care, or delight.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And sometimes love means leaving our kids with what is theirs to carry.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So maybe the question we need to keep asking is, what is my help giving them, and what do they need to learn to carry for themselves?
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: If you have a question or something you'd like us to talk through, we'd love to hear from you at contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Thanks for spending this time with us.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next week