Latest / Mooney's Mythic Podcast / Folk, pirates and dreaming

Transcript

Folk, pirates and dreaming · Mooney's Mythic Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Moony's Mythic Podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: We made it, guys.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is episode 11, 2,000 downloads.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: We have made it.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is an actual podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I found a video on YouTube that I'd made about having a dream about having a podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And here it is.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: So let's pay good attention to our dreams.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And this podcast is sponsored by folk.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: The good folk of the land.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: The folk who create from traditional methods,
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: the folk who sing the songs of the land,
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: the folk who sing the songs of our ancestors.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: There is nothing as special and magical as folk, the fae folk, the queer folk, the rare folk.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast comes to you sponsored by folk.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I've had some various inputs about my podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So a couple of people are saying that last week's podcast with William from Queen
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Space Baroque was their favourite podcast ever.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very grateful to hear that.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't listened to it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't been listening.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't listened to any of them.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to listen back.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And, oh, I say, uh, a lot at the beginning.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I confess that.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't quite ready because I was a bit excited about having William and we were chat,
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: chat,
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: chatting and I was very tired from Glastonbury.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't quite ready when the podcast started.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was a little bit like,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: if you imagine the podcast as a horse,
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was kind of like clinging onto the buttocks and just kind of pulling my,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a guest here,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: you can hear her.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was pulling myself up into the saddle for the first few minutes of the podcast
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: and I can really hear myself doing that.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: But what's really dumbfounded me is that when I'm like, and I just sound blank and disorganized.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then William,
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: French William,
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: he says,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: and it just sounds like he's having a kind of deep and complex thought,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: which I find irritating.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why can't I do that?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is it his Frenchness?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is it because he's male?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is it because he's having a deep and complex thought?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I was all over the place.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been suggested that I could run my podcast through some kind of magical
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: machine that takes all the errs and the glitches out.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I'm going to do that because I want it to be real.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want it to be airbrushed.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want to arrive in your life,
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: in your ear,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: as something so authentic that you can really feel close to it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like all that we do to airbrush and present and persona ourselves just
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: really keeps us isolated,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: just really keeps us from getting close to people.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this shame about body odour, shame about, you know, our bodies and our smell and everything.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: is uh put out there to keep us isolated because if we're isolated we're vulnerable
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: if we're isolated we're not like folk who are sharing remedies and ideas we're
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: having to buy everything yeah so in this podcast i hope that we find good company
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it helps to soften the places that are frightened of connecting and that we can
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: find out our way back,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: that we can walk each other home.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's walk each other home.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the other feedback I had, I started listening to this podcast with my friend Paul.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And after a while, he said, just get on with it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Tell the story.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd like to say I've also had a little comment about the preamble.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just want you to know it's all preamble.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: OK, I think it's better if we just call it an amble.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this whole podcast is an amble.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I might tell a story.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I might not tell a story, but it's not about kind of getting to telling a story.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be sometimes, but it isn't always.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that's clear,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: which is the third comment I'm coming to from Cy Widdeson,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: who said that he liked the podcast,
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: but he didn't understand all of it.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to really back up if I go anywhere which I think is niche,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: because I think podcasts can do that.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: They kind of talk about niche stuff and leave you more confused at the end.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to back up and just try and...
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And not give anyone the feeling that we're talking about anything that they don't understand.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just want everyone to get involved.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want us all to feel like this podcast is a landscape for their hearts and their lives.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's really somewhere which can support you in your life to lift it up.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know sometimes we just like our lives just drop sometimes my life just drops
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: like a heavy stone like a pair of really wet massive knickers and I need help to
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: just like lift it back up again and I I really wish that for you guys so I have got
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: a guest on today the amazing and incredible Dora Darling hi Dora thanks for coming
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: on today
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: What would you like to say about yourself?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: How would you like to express your beingness to the listeners?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a really good view out of your window, which is really helping, actually.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's just gorgeous.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I live on Torview Avenue,
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: so if you crane your neck,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think Torview's a bit of a stretch,
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: you would actually have to put your life in your hands and stand in the middle of
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: the road to get a view of the Tor.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not fussed about the Tor, but I do like a room with a view.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Just out over to the levels.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's lovely.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I could get a bit lost looking at that view.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just remembered I'm recording a podcast.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm coming back.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I met Dora.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Dora is, let's just say that Dora is a fabulous and fantastic folk singer.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I listened to your EP.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of my four EPs.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've got four CDs in the car, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had, now you've been on and William, Queen's Space Baroque has been on.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I got the bookshop club to come on, which they said they would, I met them.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'd only need Lauryn Hill and then I'd have all my four CDs.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be it.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I love your EP, Low Down in the Broom.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's so touching for me.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I just received so much from the authenticity and depth of where you sing and how you sing.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's really something, Dory.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're really something.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think I came across this idea when I was really quite young of trying to sound like yourself.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: which I think is something that a lot of musicians and singers maybe don't do.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: They get trained.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Someone trains them.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, well, I really... Also, I went to Ireland when I was quite young.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: When I came back,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: people kept saying I sounded like I was singing...
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't singing in an Irish accent,
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: but I guess people...
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: what I was singing was often Irish folk music, so people thought of that.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: So then I started to really focus on what do I actually sound like?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's kind of where the magic lies,
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: is in just really,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: letting myself be myself,
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: musically.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes I've wished that I could write comedy songs, but I can't.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody said to me the other day that I use comedy to kind of distract.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking, I don't think I do that at all.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think I use comedy to beguile people into the depth.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: But that jury's out there.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about how I met you.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that reminds me because Folky Nathan, I remember saying to me about singing it plain.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: In folk music,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: there's a thing about singing it plain and just singing a song as plainly as you
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: can so that the song can speak.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that maybe that was how I met you through Folky Nathan, who I used to go out with.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think I might have met you before that.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought I met you before that because I thought it might be with Homed, with the girls.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I wanted to share that Dora's children taught me manners.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: That you used to be on the trampoline with them and they thought it was the most wonderful thing.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I remember them being at the Community Pendragon for an afternoon and I tasted
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: something and went,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: and one of them said to me,
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: you don't say that.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: You say it's not to my taste.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: I came from my grandfather,
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: who was a man who ate grapes by dangling them above him and biting them off the stalks.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've really taken that on board and I say it's not to my taste.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing they said, I was ranting about something and one of them looked at me.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not mentioning their names because they might not like it,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: but one of them looked at me very sincerely and said,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: if you haven't got anything nice to say,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: don't say anything at all.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Which I think were both bits of advice that I'd probably been given in the past,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: but I really took it on board from the way that they said it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're so welcome.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'd say those two things are probably still quite prevalent.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great, great.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: let's sort of set the tone by you singing your first song so that people can really
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: receive you and your gift.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, thank you.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: This is a song called The Maid on the Shore, and it's a traditional song.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it's basically the...
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: this horrible sea captain wants to kidnap the mate on the shore.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: But she gets the last laugh.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: There was a young maiden who lived all alone She lived all alone on the shore
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: All she could find for to comfort her mind Was to roam all alone on the shore,
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: shore,
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: shore Was to roam all alone on the shore
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: There was a young captain who sailed the salt sea The winds blow high,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: blow low Oh I'll die,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: oh I'll die,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: this young captain he cried If I don't get that maid on the shore,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: shore,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: shore If I don't get that maid on the shore
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: I have lots of silver,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: I have lots of gold I have lots across the world I'll divide,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'll divide,
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: this young captain he'd buy If you'll bring me that maid on the shore,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: shore,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: shore If you'll break me that maid on the shore
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: With much persuasion they got her on board The winds blow high,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: blow low They replaced her away in the cabin So gay is a Jew to all sorrows and care,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: care,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: care Is a Jew to all sorrows and care They replaced her away in the cabin
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: The winds blow high,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: blow low She's so pretty and sweet,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: she's so neat and complete She sang sailors and captain to sleep,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: sleep,
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: sleep She sang sailors and captain to sleep
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Then she robbed them of silver,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: she robbed them of gold She robbed them of costly wear-all And she took his
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: broadsword for to use as an oar And she's rowed herself back to the shore,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: shore,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: shore And she's rowed herself back to the shore
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, were my men stupid or were my men drunk?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Were my men so deep in despair?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, for to let you away from your cabin so gay.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: For to roam all alone on the shore, shore, shore.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: For to roam all alone on the shore.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Your men, they weren't stupid.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Your men, they weren't drunk.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Your men weren't so deep in despair.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I deluded you, Captain, as well as your crew.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a maiden once more on the shore, shore, shore.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a maiden once more on the shore.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: There was a young maiden.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: lived all alone.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: She lived all alone on the shore.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was all she could find for to comfort her mind.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Was to roam all alone on the shore, shore, shore.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Was to roam all alone on the shore.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Smell the salt.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Where's that song from?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, where's it from?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think actually it's definitely traditional, so it's old.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think the first person I heard sing it was Eliza Carthy.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I've heard various other people sing it since and always just really loved that she was a hero.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love that image of her running away with a sword.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: With a sword.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, great.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's like such an up yours to the silly sailors.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: It made me think of Gráinne O'Malley, the 16th century pirate.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I thought about writing a book about her.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a lot of research around her.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, she seems to be one of those figures that that captures people's imaginations.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many books and novels about her.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just going to I found this poem.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't sure if I'd written it or not, because I hadn't.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's just some some some work I've got written down.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that I did.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if anyone else comes forward to say, actually, that's my poem.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: I can relate to that because sometimes I play a tune and I think that I've written
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: it and I think,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: but did I?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: Look, it feels like it's always been there.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe I didn't.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that probably I did.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sometimes I might copy things down and I don't know where they've come from.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I did record this and shared it a few years ago and so no one came forward then.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm claiming it as my own.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Figurehead, pirate red, galley scrubbed, iron grip softness.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Climbs the mast, woman in charge.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Rope long hair, tidy wild.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Gold glints, teeth and ears, salt and nettle smell.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Naval jacket, stolen pride, wedding dress.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Her sails are her wings, angel not quite.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: The stars crown her as she guides us home.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: She king of the sea, our own pirate queen.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: freedom, bare breasts, blood for the waves.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: On land she is tethered to us, rope tied to bedstead, holds us fast in her dreams.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: She is our anchor,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: our compass,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: pregnant,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: mother to sons,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: voice,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: though whispered,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: startled,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: skull and crossbones.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's a story that Gronja O'Malley,
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: she tied her boat to her bedstead so that she was always tethered to her boat.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been sailing with this quite a bit.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've done quite a bit of sailing.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I sailed with this woman once,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Emily,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: and she was always saying she felt more natural to be on the boat.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: sea than it did on land on land she could never really find her her legs when
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: people say oh they can't find their sea legs she could never really find her land
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: legs and it feels like that with um Gronja O'Malley and there um there's lots of
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: she comes from the seafaring family for generations and generations and generations
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: and I love that thought that they were all and it was in her blood you know that
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: she was born um out in the out on the waves so I didn't write a book
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: about Gonya O'Malley, but it did inspire a book that I did write that's kind of a work in progress.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really finished, but I thought I'd read that to you.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is the part where, so the basic premise of the story is that
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: this girl and her mum are going to a boat sailing it's in the 18th century and
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: they're going on this big boat that's going to Australia to Melbourne to start a
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: new life and this is as they're walking down to the dock the description of the
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: dock so if you haven't got one get yourself a nice cup of tea and sit down or just
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: make yourself cosy because I'm going to read this to you it's about 10 pages
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: chapter four dockside delights it was early morning but the dock was in full swing
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: at the mouth of the harbour was a bustling market many tables covered with brightly
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: cloths laden with wares
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: There was a stall selling all kinds of lanterns with oil wicks and coloured glass.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Another stall with rope and twine coiled up in piles like a den of neat snakes.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: A cobbler was setting about,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: mending shoes with tar,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: making them as waterproof as he could for the sailors who were ready to go back out
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: to sea.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Squashed in between the stalls were other sellers.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: There was a chair with a man sitting in it, his face covered in suds.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was considered bad luck if you had your hair cut on board,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: a superstition no doubt gleefully exploited by the dockside barbers who did a
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: roaring trade.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: There were peddlers wheeling their wares along the cobbled streets.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: A woman was wobbling a huge pram.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: There was no baby inside,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: just large dead fish lined up in a row,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: smaller ones strung around the canopy of the pram.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: When the pram bounced on one of the cobbles,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: it would lurch forward and the eyes of the fish would bulge and their mouths would
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: gape open.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: If the smell didn't get you, then the sound would.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: "'Air-cuts, toot-tuppany-all-off, steam and shave.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: "'Come and get your lovely fresh fish.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: "'Taste exotic delights of far-off lands,' another seller cried.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: "'He had a great gleaming machete "'and he opened a fruit as big as his head.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: "'For a moment the smell of fish was eclipsed by the potent stench "'that seeped out of the fruit.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: "'It was a mixture of onions and jack's feet.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: "'Even the fish pouting on the pram seemed to hold their noses.'
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was glad for a moment that mum was pushing me forwards through the crowds and away from that stench.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: The harbour was crammed with boats and sailors were crawling all over them.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you were moored at the end of the jetty,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: you had to use all the other boats like a ladder to get you onto land.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: People would hop from one boat to another all day long.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: There was a different feeling here to the streets and the taverns.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I heard of the perils of the sea,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: the cutthroat pirates that would come aboard at night and steal your loot,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: cut your throat,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: chuck you overboard and off of your boat they would if they liked the look of it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: The sea was a treacherous place,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: lives lost on every journey,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: the tempest,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: scrawls and storms that could break apart a boat like a snapping twig.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been terrified of the tales of sea monsters like the Kraken,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: a giant octopus that could wrap around your boat and squeeze the life out of it
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: just for fun.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: The one about the man who was swallowed by a whale and lived inside her for years.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or the Charybdis, the monster who has the mouth like a whirlpool and would swallow ships up whole.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or Hydra, the multi-headed dragon beast.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: The Megalodon, the shark bigger than an island.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: My mind was racing now as all the sea creatures I have heard of came crashing into
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: my mind on freak waves.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Tales of boats that were lost, marooned or simply never came home.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone knew someone who'd been lost at sea.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: These stories were enough for me to keep my distance from the harbour.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was a shock for me to discover the obvious fun and vibrancy that was all around
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: here at the mouth of the docks.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: As my mother ploughed on towards the slipway,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I could not help but think my magic show would go down well here.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: She loves doing magic tricks.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I imagined setting up in between the rope cellar and the exotic fruit stall.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: They would be perfect for hiding things in so I could magically conjure them later.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there were so many places to hide playing cards.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: With all these people jostling about, there were just so many ways to distract, confuse and confound.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: This was my last look of life on this land.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was heading out on the infinite blue to a place unknown.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to grasp all of it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Staring longingly at the brickwork of the dockside buildings,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine taking a bite of them,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: teeth crushing,
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: jaws crunching,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: digesting it all,
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: keeping it all with me somehow.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: My fingers and toes clench.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to grip hold of something, anything that would tether me to this land.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: This lump of earth I've always known as home.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can feel it under my feet, through my worn-out shoes.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: bricks giving way to sand and stow, tiny pebbles working their way between my shoe and my sock.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Usually I'd find it irritating, but today I love the feel of it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was infinite, the world I lived in.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: The small bubble of taverns and trade was all there was.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never considered these other worlds, whole countries and continents across the sea.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Who was it that lived on these other shores?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd seen a pineapple once.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: A merchant was selling the pieces of it at the market.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Its spiky nature and soft golden inside startled me.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: What land could grow such fruit?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: My thoughts were interrupted by the sound of the tugboats bounding along the briny
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: blue of the Mersey,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: or the Mercy,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: as I thought it was called until years later.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to hear with the sea spraying at you and the sounds of all the other boats.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: The boats were all lined up and bobbing about, different shapes and sounds.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Some brightly coloured and some pale greys and whites.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Which one is ours,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I ask,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: looking hopefully at a cherry red sailing barge that seemed to wink at me as it
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: bounced up and down.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, our boat's too big to come into the harbour, Mum said, not looking at me or breaking her stride.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: We have to get one of them big tugs out to it.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Too big to be in the harbour.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: There were huge boats here, bigger than houses.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: What can she mean?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: My mind went back to the list of sea creatures,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: only they all scaled up a bit,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: getting bigger and more ferocious in my mind.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sharper teeth, bigger jaws.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: My mum's hair blew and flicked across her face in the wind and I thought of the
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: nine-headed serpent,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: the hydra.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: She turned to me,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: grabbing onto the top of my dress and pointing her finger so close to my face that
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I flinched.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, this is a new start for us.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want anything to mess it up, she spat.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: She smoothed her hair.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're leaving our past behind and all the trouble.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I nodded.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sounded good to me.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Good, she said.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you understand.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: No more magic.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't she understand?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: In the absence of food, love, stories and magic sustained me.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was leaving Jack behind.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: He was a great storyteller.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: He was the whole library of stories.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Magic was all I had left.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was in my bony bones.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have time to reply,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: or maybe I said something,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: but it was drowned out by the sound of the tugboat coming,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: belching and retching towards us.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, my mother instructed and shoved me forward.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I stumbled, tight fingers landing on sand.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: I start to sift the grains and they pour through my fingers.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm clutching at sand.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: My fingers find something solid.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: A button or a bottle top.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care what it is.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: I push it into my pocket with my other treasures.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: A pack of cards and two coins as my mum heaves me onto the boat.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we clabber onto the boat.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: A sailor close by grabbed at us.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: A glob of spit landed in the centre of the boat.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Death boat, he said, and the sailor called out.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I heard them clearly, but I didn't know what they meant.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: The passengers seemed too caught up in getting on and getting in to notice.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a couple more pages, but I think I might read them after.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: we talk a bit more and go on to your next song does that feel all right yeah cool
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: because I was just thinking then she's talking about her thin shoes yeah and I
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: don't know if you were party to this but a few years ago there was a real fashion
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: for like barefoot shoes and I always thought
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: That was a bit of a con because I am from an East End family and,
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: a good thick sole was surely what you were buying in a good pair of shoes that were
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: going to last a long time.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there were these barefoot shoes that came along.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're really expensive.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, well, actually, you know, my ancestors were really poor.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And to actually buy a pair of shoes that you could feel the...
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Earth under your feet.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I could hear them laughing, you know.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's really interesting because I've spent a lot of my life barefoot.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I always remember listening to Clarissa Pinkola Estes saying that in some South
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: American country they thought that shoes were blindfolds for the feet.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: So it's kind of like two opposite ends of the scale, isn't it?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I do like a thick sort of boot.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: so recently I had a handmade bag and a Mexican Toltec,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: a woman reminded me that a Mexican woman had said how the bottom of a bag was the
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: most important part of a bag because it's the place that touches the earth and that
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: you can make it a real prayer to the earth when you make a bag.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: and that really got me thinking again about barefoot shoes and that maybe I had
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: dismissed them too quickly and that there was possibly something in it.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's made me think more about being barefoot,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: touching the earth,
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: the different bits of earth that I've touched.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember going barefoot in Australia and just feeling like the land really singing to me.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: yeah so that's what i was thinking whilst reading that's what i was thinking about
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: um what's your next song what is your next song about uh my next song is called six
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: knots to a sailor's heart and um
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite a long story how I got inspired to write it, but I've been reading The Shipping News.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's such a good book.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: I've watched it and listened to it as an audio book about five times,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: even though it's ten hours long,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: and read it several times.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I just love it so much.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: I find it such a sort of – it's a very peculiar story.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that's why I like it, because it's a man whose life is really not that great.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: And there's something quite comforting about that.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: But also, I love that it's in Newfoundland.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, it kind of feels connecting.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: But at the beginning of every chapter is a quote from the Ashley Book of Knots.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: because obviously Newfoundland was very much a sea-centred society.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I bought the Ashley Book of Knots thinking it would be small and it's this
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: enormous book which now kind of lives everywhere in my house.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's such a fascinating read,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: the Ashley Book of Knots,
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: not just because it's got all these knots in it,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: but because it's got all the history of the knots.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot of book there to read.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't read it all.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: But one of the things that I was kind of captured by was there's this knot called a true lover's knot.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: And actually throughout the book, I think there's six or seven different versions of them.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: And yesterday, I spent yesterday tying all of the different lover's knots, which was quite nice.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I noticed that they all start with the same under over and end up with the same
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: kind of image,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: if you imagine,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: and not being an image before it's pulled tight.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: With the two central pieces of...
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: drain hooked around each other so before they go back into their own kind of spiral
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: like a venn diagram yes yes exactly and i think perhaps that's why it's called the
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: lovers true lovers not but there's this story in there about a bashful sailor who
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: is not he's too shy to speak to his
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: his true love so he sends her the true love is not in a bit of fishing line and the
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: story goes that if she if she returns it to him in the same state that he should he
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: should if he can't hasn't got a boat to row he should he should swim ashore and if
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: if she's oh no hang on oh I'm mixed up anyway you know
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: that he should come ashore,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: and if she sends it to him untied,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: that he should ship off round Cape Horn,
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: which is obviously really dangerous,
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: so that means that he's been rejected.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: So this is quite a sweet idea.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's how this song came about.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Gorgeous.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was just remembering then that when my dad was telling me when he did his day
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: skipper that you had to do a bowline,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: which is a pretty simple knot,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: but you had to do it behind your back.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was one of the things that you had to do to get your day skipper.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, there's lots of knots at sea.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's like 3,000 or 4,000 knots in this book.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: And also I think what's really fascinating about it is that knotwork became a craft that sailors did
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't necessarily read and write.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: So prior to literacy becoming important,
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: sailors were on board ship and they were bored a lot of the time.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing that there was a lot of was old rope.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: So they do not work from rope.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing they did was, I think it's called scrimshaw, where you carve bone.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: So intricate.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: carvings and knot work and they made some really beautiful things yeah it kind of
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: sold the well it just made me understand that knots are actually really kind of
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: magical and beautiful and
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's lots of Celtic knotwork in very ancient texts.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: In The Secret of Kells,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: the Book of Kells is,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: 400 AD or something like that,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: and there's lots of knotwork drawn on the front of that.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in China,
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: knots are,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: you see those kind of balloons with the knots underneath,
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: and they're supposed to be good fortune.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: there's um the uh i suppose auroribus which is the snake that eats itself like
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: create created and not like not as the representation of like there being no
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: beginning and no end to things and about symmetry and complication i'll just read
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: to you i don't know if you know um dear darling listeners we we still know you're
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: there i know we're having a chit chat just want to
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: no just a bit of housekeeping that we we know you're there we know you're listening
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: and we're talking to you um there's this book called knots by rd lang and um it's a
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: book of kind of psychology slash poetry and um my boyfriend at university gave it
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: to me um and it's basically about the sort of complications of um
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: human relationships which I just wasn't ready to listen to or read at all I just I
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: just wanted the happy ever after mate so Harry if ever you're listening I'm sorry
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: that I didn't receive you in any way in any of your wonder um I just wanted a
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: boyfriend so anyway I'm just going to read a little extract because the whole
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: notion of the knot means it's very very repetitive and it might do your head in if
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: I read too much but I'm going to read a tiny little bit
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Once upon a time when Jack was little,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: he wanted to be with his mummy all the time and was frightened she would go away.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Later,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: when he was bigger,
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: he wanted to be away from his mummy and was frightened that she wanted him to be
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: with her all the time.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: When he grew up,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: he fell in love with Jill and he wanted to be with her all the time and was
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: frightened she would go away.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: When he was a little older, he did not want to be with Jill all the time.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: He was frightened that she wanted to be with him all the time and that she was
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: frightened that he did not want to be with her all the time.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Jack frightens Jill.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: He will leave her because he is frightened and she will leave him.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes on and on and round and round, relationship after relationship after relationship.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a scary read, but it's also, there's a lot of truth in it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's hear from the delicious Dora Darling.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being on my sofa.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful guitar.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is six knots to a sailor's heart.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: Nearly.
• 37:25
  Anchor tail, a soldier sailor
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Weaver or poacher or ever be My true love has gone to sea now Tied to the land I
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: must be Until my true love returns to the sand
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tie up new knots with my strong hand But there are six knots to a sailor's
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: heart The tying of the rest is a fading art Fold around,
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: roll over,
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: each band in clover
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Follow me down to the stormy sea.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: I could search the whole world over to find another man like you.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: The steeper door he ties, the duffel cats fall in.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: Hogshead sings upon his knee.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: The tailor twists.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: A thumb knot over the simplest knot that I can see.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: There are six knots to a sailor's heart.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: The tying of threads is a fading art.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: Over and over it's bending over.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Follow me down to the stormy sea
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: The keeper hides his knots Forever in fabric's point The bobbin spins,
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: the poacher he ties His noose to snare her tight Up in a sack that the miller he
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: brings
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Down to the shore on a fisherman's spitter I'll cast my eye for the true lover's
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: knot For there are six knots to a sailor's heart The tying of threads is a fading
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: art Under and over,
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: hitch bend and cover
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: Follow me down to the stormy sea.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: Weaver or poucher or meadow bee.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: The twists and the turns of life Have gathered the true lovers not That you sent
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: unto me And though I search the whole world over
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: There is no other man like he for there are six knots to a sailor's heart.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: The tying of threads is a fading art.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hold your head over each bend and clover.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Follow me down to the stormy sea.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Follow me down to the stormy sea.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: The tying of knots is a fading art.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Every time you sang that,
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: I felt the,
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: of the craft of,
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: of all the crafts that we're not passing on.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that we're not doing.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love all of that.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: I love, like, I did basket weaving years ago and
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: I did upholstery as well and cane and rush seating as well.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: I just think there's so many wonderful ways of making things that are so much more
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: interesting and individual and kind of personal and warm.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's like they've got people's hearts in them.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, so much more interesting than one mass-produced.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So just saying that you met someone and you thought, I'd just love to have them as a lover in my life.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just imagine that whatever's in the way of that being a reality, what would you make them?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: What would I make them as in what would they be?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: What would I make them?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm going to make a boyfriend out of straw.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to make them, yes.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what I meant, but I mean, I'm not against it as an idea.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: I've made,
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: I did a lot of spinning,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: like hand spinning with spindles and also the spinning wheel and knitting and that
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: kind of thing.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've also made log cabin quilts, which I just find absolutely exquisite.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like patchwork.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Patchwork.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I've made items of clothing as well.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: Probably I'd make them a really nice shirt.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: Out of some really fantastically soft linen.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like puffy sleeves like a sailor or something.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's a commitment.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: Chieftain's shirt.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: okay I once made a guy who had long hair who I was really in love with I made him a
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: hair slide which I was so well because he never like I never saw him wear a hair
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: slide I never saw him wear that hair slide
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: um yeah it was like kind of beaded it was long and it so he could put it in his
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: hair and then the beads would come down into his hair and i believe that that was a
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: bit like the sailor's knot like i offered him the um hair slide and if he would if
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: he was um interested he would have he would have worn it but it stopped at the
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: offering of the gift oh well he obviously wasn't worthy
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he wasn't interested, I think is another way of putting it.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: Not interested, but worthy.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Similar.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Similar, yeah.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: The stories we tell ourselves.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: The best ones.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the best ones.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to read a little bit more about life on the sea for my character in this novel.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then what was I going to do?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then...
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: We'll hear some more from the lovely Dora Darling.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we will end with a bit of magical dreaming.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're on the tugboat going out to the big boat where they are going to emigrate.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's the 18th century and they're looking for a new life.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't...
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: tune up in the uh that's no problem door and also obviously um downstairs dogs
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: might want to get involved as well again so we could hear them
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not everyone on the tugs were passengers on the ship to Melgood.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: They were friends too,
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: along for the ride,
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: partly to come on board to say goodbye,
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: partly to marvel at the still-hold beast of a boat that we were to call home for
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: the next month.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: The tugmaster was enjoying his position as tour guide and pointing out the
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: prettiest or most famous boats in the harbour.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: the steam engine in the tugboat thundered through the waves we were crammed aboard
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: not allowed much luggage and steerage but everyone was taking their feelings with
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: them and that took up a lot of room the boat was brimming with all of them hope
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: hiding and trauma challenging every moment
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: The tugmaster had seen it all before and had a tried and tested way of coping with it all.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: He talked loudly, pointing at anything worth a mention and filling in the gaps with nautical natter.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this steam engine fitted at this tug is cutting edge, cutting edge.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're lucky not to be rowing, as the engine spluttered.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't quite trust them myself yet, so I brought these.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: He lifted up a pair of oars and some of the passengers visibly relaxed.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: They'd never been on the water before and none of them had seen steam power.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now as we turn the corner here out of the harbour we come to Smuggler's Cove on the left.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: There was a cove tucked in along the beach,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: the cliffs moving round it making the beach private and you could just about make a
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: cave in the corner of the rocks.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: At high tide it's completely invisible,
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: but at low tide you might find pirates and smugglers from all over the globe
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: dropping off their wares there.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, that's what I've heard.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: The police have put a stop to it now.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: The price of rum has gone up in these parts recently, mind.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: A man who'd been sitting opposite me,
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: who frankly looked like he'd been soaked in rum and did not look like he was
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: capable of noticing anything,
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: suddenly jumped to life and cried out angrily,
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Aye!
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: before dozing off again.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: I saw a look pass between the tugmaster and the boatswain.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: A boatswain, someone responsible for taking care of the boat, keeping its ship shape, as they say.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I somehow doubted that Rum Punch,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: as I called him,
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like to name people around me when I'm in an unfamiliar place,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: it helps me settle in,
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: was going to be let on board for the journey.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: The boat continued to snake through the harbour.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: It settled alongside a larger tub,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: "'Oi, oi!'
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: called out the Tugmaster from the larger boat.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: "'Well, look who's managed to get up in time to catch the tide.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: "'Which boat's been stupid enough to use you?'
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: the Tugmaster said.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: "'The Electron.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Which boat are you tugging for?'
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: "'Horizon.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: You sending people out on that walloping great ship with a first-time captain?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: "'Do they get their money back if they don't make it all the way?'
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: There was a guffaw from the larger boat.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Our tugmaster began to protest, but all the wave sounds drowned him out.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: By the time the sound had died away, the boat was too far to continue the conversation.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: The tugmaster turned around and looked at us all, frightened, crammed into his boat.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: His eyes grew wide and his smile softened.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: He began chatting and chatting to the tugmaster.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a new tattoo?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: the man was proudly showing a blood-and-ink arm with a beautiful ship on it it had
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: three masts with great billowing sails white tipped waves thrashed at the sides of
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: the boat ay i've been round the horn so i got a new tattoo replied the sailor
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'd had heard that the sailors used charcoal, gunpowder and urine to make the ink for their tattoos.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: They were often showing them off after a few tanks of ale in the taverns.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: A sailor's body was woven with maps, memories, medals and charms.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: They all had different meanings.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: A flag could mean that you'd die for your country,
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: but it also might mean that you sailed to that country.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: A swallow meant you could always find your way home.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: see swallows they go a long way when they migrate and they come back again.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: It could also mean that you could find your way to heaven if you died.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was said that swallows kept you company and guided your way when you were dead.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Most tattoos were for good luck and good weather.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: You might see a sailor rubbing their tattoo if trouble got too close.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: My favourite was the nautical star.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: It represented the north star that was traditionally used for navigations out at sea.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sailors often got tattoos of nautical stars or compasses for superstitious reasons,
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: hoping that the star would help guide their way through the night and get them home safely,
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: a symbol of protection,
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: guidance and good luck.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Some see nautical stars as a reminder for creating one's own path or navigating for
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: a certain point in your life.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: That captain hasn't even got his shell-backed turtle!
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: I heard one of them complaining.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: It sounded like you'd get a turtle tattoo if you did something fancy at sea,
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: but I wasn't sure what it was.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think someone having a tattoo of a turtle will be enough for me to put my life in his hands.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: A woman interrupts their conversation with a gasping sigh and a heaving vomit over the side.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, she says, it's me nerves.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: She gestures to the waves, all this bumping around.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: The mood on board tenses again, and the tugmaster barks, resuming addressing his audience.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: "'We, ladies and gentlemen, are settling out on the luckiest day to sail.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: If it were a Friday, that would be bad luck, terrible bad luck, and I'll tell you why.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's because Jesus Christ was crucified on a Friday.'
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: He began rubbing a cross that he had hanging around his neck.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a Thursday?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: A few passengers shake their heads, but it's clear that not everyone knows what day of the week is.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thursdays are bad days for sailing because that's Thor's day and he's the god of thunder and storms.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: We'd be lost if Thor was in a temper.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: We'd be terrible bad luck if we sailed off then, he thundered on.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: and we shouldn't sail on the first Monday in April,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: because that's when Cain slew Abel,
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: and on the second Monday in August,
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: and the second is the kingdom,
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: the day the kingdoms of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed,
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: the tagmaster's voice softened as he went on,
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: it's none of these,
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: none of these,
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: so mark the northern star,
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: we have all the luck we
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: The tugmaster stopped suddenly.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: He took his navy hat off and clutched it to his chest.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: A boat was passing and it had a yellow flag on it.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yellow flag.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Quarantine.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Must be an illness on the ship.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Something that's catching.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: They won't let anyone dock until it's been given a clean bill of health or...
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: He tailed off and we finished the sentence for ourselves.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: If there was no hope for the passengers,
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: the whole boat could be torched and they'd be burnt alive out at sea rather than
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: infect the land.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: The woman puked again.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: I could not take my eyes off the moving water all around us.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like glass.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, clouds.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, not that either.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Crests of white foam and strands of seaweed.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: I imagined a giant mermaid had been combing her hair and these were the tendrils floating about.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was certainly the place for giants.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: The boats towered above me.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Over all of them there were sailors, shouting, singing, healing, hauling and crying.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been easy to sneak me on board like this, but I hadn't twigged her plan.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: I stood there like a John Dory when she told me,
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: when she told the boatswain I was only on board to give my regards.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: My mouth hung open as a question formed, but before I could speak, my mum was staring into my eyes.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: I always felt like I was drowning when she looked at me like that.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: Part of me would treasure the attention and another part would panic because I knew it wouldn't last.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be back to that familiar desolate absence, like a lone anchor dropping into my gut, digging into me.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: The feelings were so strong, my attention swam and I nearly missed what she was saying.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was the words, it's for your own good, that got my attention.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: It never was.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Frantically, I tried to piece the fragments together.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: She touched my face.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: My eyes tensed.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had to focus.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: This was important.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: I knew, but my attention was all at sea.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: couldn't buy you a ticket look at you pale and chalk pale as chalk and skinny you
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: wouldn't have made the checks they would have thrown you off with the rats she
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: touched my face again i wish you wouldn't the desire to kiss her hand was as strong
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: as the impulse to bite it off but shh no buts they would have marked you unfit for
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: passage and i would have had to leave you behind she hissed
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've never really been sure why she didn't.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: This bond of blood, invisible but blinding.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Soul contract.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Her words were jumping around.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't tell if it was the way she was saying them or the way I listened.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Was she starting in the middle, leaving bits out, or was I losing concentration again?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually I got the drift.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: Stow away.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the beginning of the story where actually her mum makes her stowaway on the boat.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: When they get off the tug, she just kind of shoves her to the side.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the story is about how she survives on board as a stowaway,
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: how she's found and great seafaring,
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: swashbuckling adventure.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: So as we just let the words...
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: find their way into our imagination what's your next song gonna be um i was gonna
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: sing a rosebud in june oh i love that one yeah which is a song about how great
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_03: sheep are brilliant which i think too well there's a lot of people in somerset that
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: would agree with you but you know i just think where would we be without sheep
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: I guess we'd be wearing more cotton.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hemp.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hemp.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's warm though, isn't it?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sheep.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sheep.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, wool.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic stuff.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, so in celebration of the sheep,
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: And of all the things that grow that we've woven in our history,
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: of all the things that have grown,
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: that we've shorn,
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: that we've twisted,
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: that we've spun,
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: that we've been able to make and create into magnificent things.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for all those things.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, lovely.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's, you know, it's a bit of a love story as well.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think the love story of the making of the things and the love story of each other, I suppose, yeah.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: Here's a rosebud in June And the violets in full bloom And the small birds are
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: singing Love songs on each spring
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_03: We'll pipe and we'll sing love We'll dance in a rainbow When each lad takes his
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: lass All under green grass And it's so cold
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: When we have all sheared our jolly, jolly sheep
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_03: What joy can be greater than to talk of her increase?
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: We'll pipe and we'll sing love, we'll dance in our in love.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: When each lad takes his lass all on the green grass.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it's hard to plough when the fire talks in grey snow.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: And the lads and the lasses do sheep-shearing go.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the ewes and the lambs, here's the hogs and the rams.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: And the fat worthies too, they will make a fine show.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: We'll pipe and we'll sing and we'll dance in our ring love.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: When each lad takes his lass All on the green grass And it's all to plough
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: And the larks and the lasses, blue sheep cheering go.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the lily white pail, filled full with grass.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: Our table,
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: our table All on the green grass We'll pipe and we'll sing and we'll dance In our
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: real love When each lad takes his lass All on the green grass
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: and it's all to plough where the fat oxen graze plough and the lads and the lasses
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_03: to sheep shearing go yes it's all
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: Where the fat oxen graze, no.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_03: And the lads, and the lasses, two sheep sharing home.
• 1:01:55
  Oh, thank you.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling like your song.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: I felt the land come closer to me.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: I felt the land kind of
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: like rolling hills moving closer towards me to my heart thank you wow that's lovely
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: that's what i feel that i think that's why i love this music so much just because
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: it feels like i'm connecting to the land and my ancestors and i feel like my kind
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: of job in the world if i had a job in the world it would be to write songs that
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: bring people back to the land and back to like
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe kind of ways of living.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was Lisa O'Neill that said recently that the older the songs are,
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: the more you hear the voice of the land,
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: the Celtic songs.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I really felt the voice of the land then.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, triumphant.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: When can we see you doing stuff?
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just not really doing gigs.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_03: We need to generate one together.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_03: You told me you had a gig on.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: That was my lead-in to telling you so that you could say about a gig.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: What I have is I run a choir in Froome and it's a folk choir and we sing folk songs and tea shanties and
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: next week on Wednesday the 17th at 8pm in the Bennett Centre in Froome we're doing
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: a concert and the concert is this year is the bicentennial year of the RNLI and who
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: have always been really close to my heart because my granny lived by the sea and
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_03: used to hear the lifeboats and there'd be this big bang when the lifeboat was going
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_03: to go off and my granny was just so into it so when i heard that they wanted choirs
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_03: to do sea songs and concerts and raise money and i thought right my choir's doing
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_03: that so we've got a whole evening of well it's only an hour but of sea songs um yes
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: sea songs and shanties a couple of them happen to be ones i've written which is
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: quite pleasing because they're both about the sea so
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: actually that song we did earlier,
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: Six Knot,
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: I actually wrote that for my choir to sing and the way they sing it is different.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously it's in a three part harmony and it's got a bit of a different rhythm,
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: it's got a bit more get up and go to it.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's next Wednesday at 8pm at the Bennett Centre.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Great, brilliant.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: So come to that if you can.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: go and see go and listen to that sounds amazing i was just remembering that i i'm
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: also in a choir and um and i was really struggling to learn the words to the songs
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: oh there's so many different songs in so many different languages um and um
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: did a kind of journey on the inside to try and find the place it just felt blocked
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know try and find the place that wasn't kind of playing ball with learning
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: these words and I found this old woman inside but she like had her arms folded and
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: she had her nose in the air she says I'm not learning any of this foreign stuff and
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: he was ruder than that
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, my God, like, is this my internalised racism?
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on?
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what is this place?
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not connected to this place.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, you haven't heard my voice yet.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're learning all this stuff and you haven't heard my voice yet.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, who is she then?
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's her voice?
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I was playing all this different kinds of music to her and she was going, nah.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: All my hair's adjusted on me.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because...
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: I played it literally.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was playing old Irish songs.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was playing ballads.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was playing folk songs.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was playing Bulgarian songs.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking maybe it's like Eastern Europe, Northern Europe.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where am I from?
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where is this part from?
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting no traction from her.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I played a sea shanty and she just went...
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: like this.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, sea shanties.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked,
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: look where the sea shanties,
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: where the sea,
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: I knew we're doing sea shanties at the Rifleman's.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I took myself along to sea shanties at the Rifleman's and I bought her a pint and she was happy.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then since then, I've had a little bit more luck learning the stories.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think it can be very difficult to learn words.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_03: And especially when there's so many.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I have like,
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_03: The songs I find easiest to remember the words of are songs where there's a clear story,
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_03: so I just imagine it in pictures.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then songs where the words are foreign to me,
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_03: I find much more difficult,
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_03: but I kind of try and make them mean something in a way.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_03: Find out what they mean.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, I find that really hard, but I have to say that my choir don't have to learn the words.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you're doing folk, there's so many words.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they could be really long.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I've tried cutting out verses and then the song becomes meaningless.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I let them have the words and encourage them to learn as many as they can and
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_03: just use them as a prompt because...
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_03: otherwise it kind of kills some of the fun i think but i can see the point of
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_03: choirs learning yeah and you know obviously as a performer i'd like on my own i do
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_03: need to learn the words but i've taken to bringing a prompt with me where it have
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_03: like it'll have the first line of each verse on it or just so i know i can look at
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: it but i do tend to perform with my eyes shut
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's so I can't see the audience.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because I like to talk to the audience.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: But if I see them while I'm singing, it's so distracting.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like suddenly drawn into their world and I forget what I'm doing.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: it's a different,
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: it's quite a thing to manage,
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: that dance between being in,
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: because you're coming from your internal,
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: like when I'm storytelling,
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm conjuring an internal world.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this whole thing is going on.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: This whole story that I'm telling you with this song is going on.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: And if I look at you and you're like,
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: picking your nose or drinking tea or just looking at me really intensely then I'm
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: like oh hang on back in the room
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I have been learning the words because it is a learn word choir.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I have been really enjoying how different languages are making me move my mouth differently,
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: making me totally...
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just feeling like it's expanding my landscape.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of Bulgarian songs.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_03: So much because it's got this twang.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's so different.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's so different.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm meeting my own sort of...
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: In Englishness,
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: in learning,
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: even in learning the old Irish songs,
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: Irish songs,
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welsh songs,
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Georgian songs,
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: Italian songs,
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: French songs.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really enjoying how it's kind of making me grow.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really, it's been quite a calcified place.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really enjoying it.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I am storytelling at the Toll Puddle Festival.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_00: If anyone's going to that, I'm really looking forward to that.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's my next thing on the agenda for me.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's the next time I'll be out and about.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's the 19th to the 21st of July.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, everybody.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got here, this is this is nearly the end of the podcast and you've you've done it.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've loved being here and recording for you.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do do like it.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: Watch how you do that.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think you press a heart on Substack and subscribe if you can,
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: because that means that you won't miss an episode.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: That means you'll get a little email saying that you're getting an episode.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And next week,
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to introduce a Patreon so that if you want to buy me a cuppa or my guest
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: a cuppa,
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: you can do that.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not feeling quite ready to do that yet.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Tell your friends about this podcast.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for being good company and lots of love.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Can I just mention my website?
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, please.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: DoraDarling.com if you want to know more about what I'm up to.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_03: And also my music's on Spotify and Bandcamp.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well done.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: You did that brilliantly.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Bye, everyone.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Mwah.