Latest / Operation Game Night / OGN Ep 11: Airing Our Gaming Grievances

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OGN Ep 11: Airing Our Gaming Grievances · Operation Game Night

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Operation Game Night Podcast, where we celebrate Festivus year-round.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to air some grievances.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: With me, as always, is the George Costanza of the podcast, Clay Gable.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, I would definitely be a George Costanza in the Seinfeld world, unfortunately, but it's good to be here.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Who is Jared in the Seinfeld world?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, he's definitely Kramer.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, he's the Cosmo Kramer of the group.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he just come barreling in and we're waiting for him to barrel in one of these episodes.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I could be the Jerry Seinfeld.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'd be like the David Putty of the podcast.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: You got some real Elaine vibes to you.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: My little kicks Yep, yep and just so you guys know out there if you get some weird vibes, if there's an energy here, jared is listening to us as we record this but, due to some babysitting circum, it's not called babysitting.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: He's a dad, he's watching his kid.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Babysitting circum it's not called babysitting.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: He's a dad, he's watching his kid and she she is not very conducive to recording a podcast.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So he is here with us in moral support, listening to what we're saying.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: so, yeah, you might feel him with us this week and he's chiming in via chat so we can read off of his his comments on the chat and he agrees with our choice that he is in fact the Cosmo Kramer of the group.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I think he was agreeing agreeing with you being a lane.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I think I'm the David Putty.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Gotta support the team, probably.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Anyways, today's upward, we are going to debrief our weeks in gaming.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: We are going to fall in on the mission objective, which is we're going to talk about pet peeves in board gaming, pet peeves with other gamers, pet peeves with publishers, pet peeves with just gaming in general, your friendly local game store, whatever it is.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: We're going to air some grievances and then we are going to go over the fence and talk about what we've been doing outside of board gaming.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: So, clay, jump in and debrief your week for me.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I got a debrief that is more of a confession I posted proudly on our Instagram about Unconscious Mind.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I set it up, it was beautiful.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I spent probably two hours watching videos of how to play Unconscious Mind.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I read the rule book.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I bribed my wife into playing with me and even convinced her to watch the 45-minute video and we sat down to play this game and I understood what to do, but it was just too much.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I we took three turns and I was like nah I'm, we shut it down because I don't know.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm just at a point now where I know myself well enough that I have a great appreciation for those complex Euro games and the the way they try to integrate theme into these mechanisms and how all the systems are tied together.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Like from a, a lover of board games, I appreciate that and honestly, I probably enjoy reading the rule book more than I actually enjoy playing the games, because to me I just I was like this isn't going to be fun.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Like I can do it and it will be an exercise for my brain, but I know at the end of the day I'm not going to have fun, and I could tell Mary was not going to have fun either, like we were going to do it and we were sucking it up and then I just had this epiphany.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I was like you know what?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I don't get to play games that much.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: I am certainly not getting paid for this.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: So if I'm playing a game tonight, I want it to be something that I'm gonna have fun with.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: So we packed it up that'll be shipped out to you shortly travis and oh and uh.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: And we played Lord of the Rings duel for middle earth instead, which was fun, but, yes, unconscious mind like, don't let my, obviously I didn't play it.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So everything I'm saying is just my own personal gaming taste changing that I don't feel the need to subject myself to those levels of complexity anymore.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I think I'm more secure in my status as a gamer.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I don't need to go out and prove that I can grok the rules of a complex Euro like that anymore.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And again, awesome game Like I will.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Fantasia Productions like beautiful game.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I had a blast, I'm not kidding you.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I had a blast setting the game up and looking at all the components and seeing all the things set up the dream cards, the art by Andrew Bosley, vincent Dutrait the production is beautiful man.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: The theme they put into this was so impressive that they did that.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: And.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I just gotta be real with myself and I was.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I was two turns in.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I was just looking at the board.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I'm like there's just too much.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Like, do I go to the city and do one of eight different actions at the city?
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Or do I, you know, try and treat my clients?
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: For some reason, there's like eight different cards on your client to treat them.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just so much and I appreciate it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: It all had a place.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: But I don't know that those type of games are for me anymore.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe I can have one game like that that I know really well and I can keep playing.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: And we do have a question in the chat from Jared With a different group, would you play it?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I would play any game with the right group.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: So if I was playing with Travis and he knew the rules and was raring to go, I would be down to play Unconscious Minds and I would probably have a good time because I like doing that.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: But I knew it was going to be an uphill battle with Mary and my first time playing it and it just it seemed like the right move to just quit.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry?
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I fell flat, is it?
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Was it like any specific mechanism?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Was it too fiddly?
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Like what made you bounce off of it so hard?
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I just found myself just completely befuddled at what I should be doing.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I knew what I could do and I was like, what should I be doing right now?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: I just looked at the meeting table.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I understand all these icons.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I can place my work, my ideas, Cause again they I it's great just to see what they come up with to integrate the theme.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: But you're stating your ideas on the little meeting table to take these actions and gain insights to help treat your clients.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And I was just like looking around on my third turn, like like I I don't know what this is all for.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Like there, there is so much like it's and again, do not take what I'm saying as a review of any type because I played three.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I played three turns.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: My third turn was like this isn't going to be worth the squeeze.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: And yeah, disappointing, because I really wanted to play that game, because I do appreciate board games and I appreciate the productions and the design and the rules they come up with to make these things come to life.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I just don't have it in me to be that guy.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Like I'm not the brain Bernie guy.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: So maybe feast for Odin will be my more complicated Euro that I keep around.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: But I certainly do not need to be stacking my shelves with these types of games because the amount of rules that are in them like you just, unless you're playing them all the time, you're never going to remember them and it's going to be such a hassle to get it back out and try and play it.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that was an epiphany for me and again I think I've just in general, my tolerance for heavier games has been waning, especially since you and jared have left.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: I just don't have that same muscle anymore.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: I can't remember.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Is there a solo mode to that one?
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: There is, yeah, yeah, I have to look into the solo mode.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know much about it, but yeah, maybe that's the way to get it played is just sit down or leave it on a table and kind of come back to it when you can.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I hate to take it off the table because it looks so daggone good.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why you need a board game table.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I know, just keep it there.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Shout out to board game tables.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's my sort of debrief.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Item number one is that I failed miserably as a podcaster in not getting a solid play of unconscious minds and to in not getting a solid play of unconscious minds and to provide our listener with a well-thought-out opinion.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Instead, you just got my grievances about my own changing tastes.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: So that's that, Travis.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Did you have any success playing a game this week?
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I played Wild Duo.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Got Wild duo to the table as a kickstarter that just delivered designed by kanat sadamwanda watanata and mitsuo yamamoto I'm butchering those names, I'm sure, but the graphic designer is mark durr and I was pushed this kickstarter because I had previously backed his zoo Tycoon board game, which is pretty awesome.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: But Wild Duo is five miniature games in one box Pretty cool.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: They're all themed around a different type of animal and they are super fast to learn and play.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: To set up, each one has its own separate board in the box.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Each one has its own separate little baggie that contains the chips for that specific game.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So set up and tear down.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: As a breeze, it says that this game can play up to 10, but what they mean is you can have two people playing each of the games and then rotate, which I guess is 10 people playing, but kind of in parallel and not together, so misleading a little bit.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, little bit.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a little misleading and um.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: So the goods is easy to learn, easy to play, difficult to master.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: It's almost like I don't know chess or something like there.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: There's probably some really deep strategies, games that we have not figured out yet, but each of them has kind of an interesting mechanic where you're trying to take advantage of positioning your different chips on these boards in different ways.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: They all move different and behave differently to reach a winning objective.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: So the first one that they have you learn in the rule book, is like Tusk Tassel or something like that, and it is about African elephants.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: And so you have this hexagonal board with all these crisscrossing lines, and every time the lines crisscross there's an elephant token of a different color.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: On your turn, you take one of these elephant tokens and you move it the number of spaces equal to the number of chips in that stack and it has to land on another elephant.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: On your turn, you can only move your color or herds stacks with your color elephant on top, and once no other legible move or allowable move can be made, the game's over and you score points based on stacks of elephants that are four or greater.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: So you're kind of trying to outmaneuver.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like chess, because you can have this huge herd in the middle Not that it earns the owner any additional points or anything, but you can kind of position another stack outside the main ring that's waiting to take that herd.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: If somebody else moves on it it plays super fast.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: We played it I don't know probably four or five times back to back to back, and there's two different variants for each of the different games in Wild Duo.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: So each game has two-sided game board.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: One is typically like the easier difficulty and then there's an advanced version.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: So the advanced version, for example, of the Tusk Tassel is there's neutral elephants on the board and anybody can move herds that are owned by the neutral elephants.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So if you might not be able to steal a herd, you might be able to move a neutral herd into position for you to take on a future turn.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: So that one's pretty interesting.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: There's another one with whales, with humpback whales, where you are maneuvering your whales on like a almost a chess board, looking five by five grid, and every time they move they can move orthogonally or they can move horizontally, but when they move, that piece that you're moving slides all the way to the end, and so you have to move it as far in that direction as you can.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: It's like I don't know a queen or a or a bishop in chess you have to move it like, except you have to move it all the way to the end as far as it can move.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: What you're trying to do is you're trying to end with your little you.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: You have, let me see, six whales and one fish token, and the first person that can move their fish token to the center of the board wins.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: That one's pretty interesting.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: It's like I kind of equated it to like back in the day, if you ever played any of the Pokemon games, there's always that puzzle where you're sliding the blocks on the ice and you have to like get blocks to go down a certain hole or to activate a button or something, and so you push the block and it slides in a straight line all the way.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like one of those puzzles, but you're doing it against another person.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: So that one was kind of interesting.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: And then the other one that we got played was one about sea lions, and I can't remember what that one is called.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: But you are trying to move sea lions, and I can't remember what that one is called.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: But you are trying to move sea lions around an island to corner one of the opponent's female lions.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: You're trying to pin down one of their sea lions in a square so that at the start of their next turn their sea lion cannot move.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: And once you do that you win.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: And it's pretty interesting because you have this kind of like round island and these different tracks that are drawn around the island and you can move your sea lion along these lines any number of space that you want, but a minimum of one.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: And once the opponent cannot move their sea lion at the beginning of their next turn, that's when the game is over and you win.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: So pretty quick to learn.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: We haven't played all of them yet, but if you game is over and you win, so pretty quick to learn we haven't played all of them yet.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: But if you liked Kelp and you need something even faster than that to get to the table, this is not quite as asymmetric In fact it's not asymmetric at all but this is super easy to learn, super easy to teach, easy to get to the table.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It's a good game that is super light and a good filler game.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: If you maybe have a couple of extra people that are strap hangers at a game night and need something else to play in the corner while something heavier is going on, or they're waiting for the next game to start or something like that, this is a great filler game for that.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: So that is wild duo and that was published this year by Tresor games.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, that is pretty intriguing.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I like the sound of that Five little mini two-player games in one box with a nature theme.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: You definitely piqued my interest.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: The other cool thing that I will mention the rulebook is not translated very well.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know the original language, I think it's Korean originally, but at the end of each of these sections because the games are themed around these different animals it has this whole page spread about that specific animal and kind of like their behavioral habits and habitat and all this type of stuff.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: So you can kind of learn a little bit as you play.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: And the mechanics that the game is based off of is based on real life behaviors of the animals.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: So, like the African elephants, they will join together into herds and then split apart into herds depending on scarcity of resources or vulnerabilities of the herd, and so the whole point is that you are building these herds back up from being separated.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of a cool way to introduce people to some zoology lessons and get a little taste for these different types of animals.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: So if you have an animal lover in your life that needs quick games or likes simple-to-learn games, wild Duo is a solid option.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I dig it.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: So for an actual game, I did play this week and didn't quit on.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Mary and I played Unlock, short Adventures, duaren's Dungeon.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: So if you're not familiar with Unlock, they're basically just a deck of cards that lead you through this adventure game.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I used to kind of equate it to an escape room, but I feel like they've kind of evolved past that, that it doesn't feel like you're just trying to get out of a room.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: They really do a great job of like setting you in a scenario and you're just trying to get out of a room.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: They really do a great job of setting you in a scenario and you're looking around Sure, there are some escape room-y elements, but you're really trying to solve puzzles and figure out what the next thing you need to do is to get to the end of the scenario.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I am personally a fan of the short adventures.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: They're supposed to be 30 minutes and that's mainly because I am not that good at these type of games.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: I'm not that good at many type of games, but particularly these unlock games.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the stuff they come up with is pretty out there, and when we're doing the long ones it feels like a lot of times I'm just watching Mary solve a problem and I'm just sitting there like, okay, sounds good.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: So I like the shorter ones.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: It feels more appropriate to me as a shorter game.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's super cool the system they have.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: There's like, like these cards, that you get items and they'll have like half of a red puzzle piece in the top left corner and there are other cards that have blue puzzle pieces, and so if you have two items and you're like, oh, what would happen if I combined the arrow I found over here with this bow I have, and one's red and one's blue, you can put them together and then you add the numbers of the cards and that tells you to reveal a new card.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: And so then you go and, yeah, you flip open the card that had the number combined and if it was what you were supposed to do, it'll show you like a new scene or be like oh, you shot the dragon and here's what happened.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: And if it was something you like a new scene, or I'll be like oh, you shot the dragon and here's what happened, um, and if it was something you weren't supposed to do, then it'll like tell you to push a penalty button on the app.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: So they are app driven.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: There's an app that has a timer and there's these machines that you use Like it's.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: It's a super cool little system they've come up with.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: In this Duel Aurens dungeon you have this machine that lets you hold your phone camera over a card and cast these spells.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: That'll do a blizzard or something, and so you see this ghost come at you and you're like, oh my gosh, let me cast the fire spell real quick.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: So you hold your phone over that card and do the fire spell and it'll either tell you that that was the right thing to do or tell you, hey, your magic doesn't work.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: So they come up with each of these different games.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: They have all these different cool ways to integrate your technology with it.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: We've played a ton of these and I've seen a lot of different things and they keep somehow iterating on it and coming up with unique ways to do it.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I like them, but Mary loves them.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I do not enjoy.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Like sometimes it is pretty obscure what you're supposed to do next, and so you're just staring at these, like five cards in front of you for what feels like an eternity, and you're like, okay, well, what?
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: What would happen if I, you know, put the edge of this card, on the middle of that card.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Does that make a number?
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: I can find somewhere and you're just doing all this crazy stuff and you can't figure it out.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I get frustrated and you can take hints on the app, but mary doesn't like to take the hints because that detracts from your score at the end.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: So maybe if I was played by myself it would be more fun because I would just I would get stuck and just take a hint.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: But when these, when these games are flowing and you're like figuring out what you're supposed to be doing and they're like just moving along from card to card and you're you're cruising through the scenario, it's a ton of fun and it's surprisingly immersive what they can do with just a deck of cards.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I would say this is definitely like a one or two player experience trying to have, yeah, more than two people crowded around this, like these few cards, trying to like figure out what's going on.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: It's kind of annoying.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I did it once and I was like I'm never doing that again.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: So I'm a two player max guy guy for Unlock, but yeah, if you've ever tried Unlock, definitely pick up one of these short adventures.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: They come in a tiny little box and they're $10 maybe, and you can pass them on when you're done with them.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I think I sent one that Mary and I did to you in your little Gwen care package.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: You sure did.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I send you Unconscious Mind and you sent me Unlock.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Even Steven, even Steven yeah.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I haven't tried to unlock in probably 10 plus years, and the last one we did was like the Haunted Circus one, and it was before they had such good app integration.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I think it was just a timer and some hints, and so it's cool to see that they are continuing to evolve.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've done so many of these.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: There's yeah, mary always is down to play an unlock game.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: So and shout out to unlock kids.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I know I mentioned it on the kids episode, but the unlock kids system is really great too, and my kids love getting getting into that, so check it out.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Space cowboys has mary tried box one, the neil patrick harris board game no, have you uh, I have not, but I know that it's kind of like an escape room puzzle type thing in a box and I think it's available at Target and Amazon and Walmart and stuff like that.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: It's pretty readily available.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: It's pretty low complexity and it's got kind of the same systems where you're using an app driven.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: It comes in a big box with a bunch of cards and different stuff in it, but it's like an escape room box that you're trying to solve.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: You should look into it.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: It's uh, it was published in 2020 by theory 11 and the designer is neil patrick harris himself.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: No freaking way, okay, yeah, I'm, I think I've seen it around, um, but yeah, I might have to check that out, because, yeah, mary, definitely I've heard good things about it mary gets down with these type of games.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, also shout out to the exit games.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Those are also in a very similar vein to the unlock games.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: We've only played one of those as as big uh go green guys on this podcast.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: You know the exit games are one-time use, so you like cut stuff up in those games, which was really fun.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: But the unlock games I like.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I like being able to pass those on after we finished them and know that somebody else is going to get the same experience out of it.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah exit games are cool too, if you hate mother earth.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and before we get off box, one has a 7.8 rating on uh board game geek, so solid people have spoken.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, travis, you get anything else played uh, I didn't get a whole lot else played, but I do want to shout out two very important kickstarters that are going on right now no one no one being the next root expansion, homeland expansion.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: It's got frogs and bats and skunks and they've got some really interesting new mechanics.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do a huge deep dive on them here, but if you're into root and you care about the root expansions and how they all interact, this is like right up your alley awesome mechanics, mechanics, awesome new factions.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Pretty excited to try them.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: The other one that I want to shout out is called Mad Kala and it's by Druid City Games and it is another entry into the Wonderlands Warline, and this one is a head-to-head 1v1 card battler that uses man Kala mechanics and unique player powers to whittle down your opponent's health.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: It looks awesome.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Pretty excited to try that.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: So those are my two kickstarter shoutouts for the week daggone man.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I can't with this stuff because I just went all in on freaking Bitewing and their Kinesia sci-fi trilogy and then the next day I turn around and I got Root staring at me like how I have to have some guardrails up on how much I spend on Kickstarter.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And this both Mad Kala and Root have been.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I keep pulling up the Kickstarter page looking at them.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I'm'm like no Clay, you spent your November budget on your stinking Bitewing trilogy, so do not even think about it, but I keep thinking about it and the draw is there for sure, but yeah, I don't know, I will end up with all the root factions one way or another, whether it's on via Kickstarter in eight years, when it's in retail.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just hard because, like I did, I missed out on the underworld expansion.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I think they had like just shipped when I was really starting to build up my root collection, just shipped when I was really starting to build up my root collection, and it was really difficult to find an underworld expansion that was retail priced and that was a huge pain in the butt.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: So, man, I yeah, these two Kickstarters are really staring me in the face and staring in the face of my no game procurement promise.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: We'll, we'll see, we'll see.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Be strong, let's move to the mission objective.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: So, because you are the george costanza of the podcast and I am either elaine and or javid putty, we are going to air some grievances in Festivus Celebration and we are going to air some grievances about the board gaming hobby, about board gamers, about publishers, about our friendly local game store, whatever it is.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: We've got grievances to air.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So, clay, go ahead and air some grievances.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: What are your pet peeves in the gaming?
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: hobby.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Before I start I just want to say if you're somebody I've gamed with and you feel attacked by something I'm saying, just know these are minor pet peeves.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Obviously, all the pros of getting to the table with individuals that may have some things that get under my skin outweigh these pet peeves and, in general, all of these things are obviously trivial compared to the massive enjoyment I get from the board game hobby.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: But it is good to have a little whining sesh every once in a while.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously this is a hobby that we love and we continue to go back to, so it's not like this has driven us away in any way, shape or form.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: But these are just things that kind of grind our gears a little bit and maybe provide a little bit of uh friction to our gaming experiences.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So, clay, hit me with your first grievance.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: So what's the deal with big boxes for these little card games?
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, give me a break.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at point salad.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: It is literally just a deck of cards and it's in a box almost as big as Gloomhaven.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I get why they do it the economics of producing a board game, even if it's just a card game.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: If you stick it in a tiny little box.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: One, people probably aren't inclined to pay that much for it if it's in a tiny box.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: So you put it in a big box, people think maybe I should spend more money on that.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: And two, it takes up more space on the shelf when people are shopping.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: So I get it.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: But as somebody that has a ton of games, I don't need a deck of cards to be in that big of a box Like I'm sorry cards to be in that big of a box Like I'm sorry.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And they go to great lengths to make you think that they've done you some enormous service by putting this insert in that just has a little divot for you to put your cards into.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So that is my first pet peeve to the game publishers.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Out there is sticking a card game and it doesn't have to be just a card game.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I've seen it in plenty of other games where the box is far bigger than it needs to be and shout out to those companies out there fighting against that, such as devere has been putting out some amazing oh yeah, big games in small boxes.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Oink is fighting against that.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: They get all this stuff crammed in those tiny little boxes against all odds.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Butt and shy.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: All play.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's some publishers out there that are doing right by it.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: But also, if you're out there and you're thinking, hey, I got this card game, how can I put it in the biggest box possible?
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Please stop Travisvis I wonder how much of that is also like when it goes to retail.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: They want it to stand out amongst the other games, because you go to like the card section in game stores and it's like decks of cards and like uno and stuff like that and they want it to like be.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: They want it to be considered like a real board game.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: So they just put it in a larger box, just so.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: First shelf presence.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, there's definitely reasons to do it and, again, it doesn't stop me from buying them, so I can't complain that much my first grievance what's the deal with publishers that have a thousand chits or cards or whatever it is in their boxes and don't give you enough plastic baggies?
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: That makes sense for the way you would organize them.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Or what's the deal with not having any sort of dividers in games that have a thousand pieces in it?
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at you druid cities games and wonderland's war.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: The organization for that box in particular makes no sense to me.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: There's like a giant divot in the middle, a little cardboard insert to a cardboard box, and then you've just got a thousand little baggies floating around.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: They give you plenty of baggies I'll give them props for that but there's no logical way to organize any of this except for pull that cardboard thing out and just have all these baggies floating around in this bigger box.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Recently I procured a copy of Cthulhu Wars Duel.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: It's two-player Cthulhu Wars.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: It's got a super thick rule book that I have not worked my way all the way through yet because it's very long.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: But there's literally no sort of organization in this box and I know they charge a lot for these games and there's no way to organize it.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: There's like little chits and cutouts and things like that.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: They just float and they don't give you any plastic bags.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: People are spending $70 on these games and they don't give you any plastic bags.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I know that it's super cheap to go out and procure a hundred of them for $5 or whatever it is for these little token organizer bags, but man, that really grinds my gears.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: So what is the deal with publishers not putting a simple plastic bag in there to organize stuff or any sort of logical way to organize the little bits and bobs that go into board games?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: you know what's worse?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: The most insulting thing are those cardboard wannabe inserts that they throw in there and it's like just immediately rip those out.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: But more on the insert.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: What is the deal with having an insert and then not telling you how to use it?
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Sure, oh, yes, I'm a pretty smart guy.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I know on this podcast a lot of times I make it seem like I'm the dumb one of the group, which probably is the case, but I can usually figure out where things should go.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: But if you're a huge game and you give me this nice insert in the box but don't tell me how to use it, I spend a lot of time trying to figure out.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, does this deck of cards go here?
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Where did the baggies of stuff go?
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: And it's simple.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, shout out to Stonemaier Games.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: They will put on the side of the box.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Here's how you should store everything in the box.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful, love it, nice touch.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Unconscious mind had the same thing.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: They have a on the outside of the box.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: They have a big diagram of how all the content, including expansion, should be put in there.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: So love it you can do it.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Just take the time to help us out because at the end of the day, gaming is hard right, like it is not a turn on your PlayStation and start playing, type of thing.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Like I literally spent hours just learning how to play, unconscious mind, and then probably another hour setting it up.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: So if you can ease the pain of any of that for the players, you're going to go far.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: And there's plenty of people out there that have recognized the gap in this for a lot of games and will sell you these nice inserts on Etsy, like I have a beautiful one with Feast for Odin, all the tiles and things, and with the expansion that I had to go out of pocket, pay $50 for a organizer so you don't have to go crazy with it.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Just, you know bare minimum.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Give them the plastic baggies, right, travis?
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, give them the plastic baggies, right, travis?
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, give them the plastic baggies, give them the organizer and then show them how to use it.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Speaking of organizers, have you moved your ARX box into the Blighted Reach campaign box?
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I know that it like fits the core box as well.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I don't have the Blighted Reach.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm just a basic boy over here.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Wow, you showed great restraint in this Kickstarter.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: It's a constant battle.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: It's a much bigger box and it fits both the core game and the expansion.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: That's nice.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: I was also going to shout out, since some publishers are doing it right and actually show you how to use stuff.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I was going to shout out the Everdell Complete Collection box.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: It has all these little individual trays.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: You've got your dwellings of Everdell, Don't?
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: They have nice organizers that all just pop out and you just take them out and go.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's amazing, Travis.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all your player pieces are in this nice little game tray and you just pop the top off and you're ready to go.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful, it's so satisfying yeah.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I lost track of whose grievance that was.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I kind of piggybacked off of yours.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: That's okay, I'll go.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: This is actually prompted by amanda from emptiness board bomber.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: But what is the deal with math trades?
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: That system is archaic and terrible and there are so many people that are missing out on the opportunity to participate in math trades because that system on board game geek is so hard to navigate.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Got to use these external links that send you another website.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: You can input your wish list, but then once you come to trading, it's not very well explained.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: There's no tutorial.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: It is so difficult to navigate and I have missed out on several trades because the math trade system is so terrible.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: I hate it.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty upset that you've marketed me as an expert in math trades.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Poor amanda is gonna get a pretty rough tutorial here, because I only scraped by by the skin of my teeth in that one that I successfully executed.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, well, that's one more than jared and I have done so.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you are the expert.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: I am the Operation Game Night expert in math traits for what it's worth.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: But yes, I was absolutely gobsmacked when I opened up that website and was like have they not updated this thing since the internet came about?
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: You're half expecting to hear like the dsl dial up, yeah, as you log on to this website, it feels like it.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's yeah, anyway, math trades uh, I'm about to go at some people now.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: So what name?
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: What's the deal with people that are obviously not interested in hearing you teach the rules and they say things like we'll just learn as we play.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: And you're like okay, that sounds good.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: And you start playing and then you bring something up that you didn't cover in the rules, because they didn't want to hear the rules, and like like well, I didn't know that.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I'm like well, how would you know that I didn't get to tell you the rules?
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: And even worse, maybe not worse, that's probably worse.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: But also, when you actually know you told somebody the rules and you remind them during the game and they're like you never told me that.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I was like pretty sure I did yes, and they get I get adamant about it.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: We have a member in this household that, uh, is self-admittedly never listening when rules are read at them or taught to them.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: But then when something comes up that might help me or hurt them in the end game objectives of the board game, then all of a sudden it's like oh well, you never told me that.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, you changed the rules.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Pet peeve.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: That happens a lot.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: What's the deal with game stores only catering to Magic, the Gathering and Warhammer players?
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: that's true.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: You go in there sometimes and you can tell the staff does not care about the tiny board game collection they have.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: They are just hanging out by the card case waiting to sell the booster packs and get all the money from all the Magic players.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Waiting to sell the booster packs and get all the money from all the Magic players.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: It's just disappointing when you see a game store and you can tell that they're not there really for the board games.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: They're there for the collectible games that are going to make them the money.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Which who can blame them?
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot of people that spend a lot of money on collectible card games and Warhammer, so you got to cater to your audience.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: But it is disappointing when you go into a store and you Capitalism again Big boxes for small games and game stores selling to their target audience.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: How dare they.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how dare they try and make money?
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: But that's rule number one of like starting a game store is like, if you're gonna stock magic, the gathering cards and not be strictly board games, like you have to hire specific experts for magic, the gathering and pokemon.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: And like, especially now that collection has gotten so crazy that's become such a heavy focus of all of these traders that will like sell you in an individual card for like 10 bucks, 20 bucks, whatever it is, and it's not about booster packs all the time anymore, so you got to have those like real niche people that can service that community.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: It's, it's really.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: It's not frustrating, like it's not no skin off my back, but yeah, when it comes at the expense of the other board games that they could be stocking.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: That that's when it gets frustrating.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and because they're hiring those people to cater to the card game fans.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: When unsuspecting Jared walks in and asks for a recommendation about a board game and they're like yeah, I heard Catan's good, yeah, I heard Catan's good, you know, and so you know.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: You just don't have people that are that well versed in board games, that are working the store, that can help people who are, like, interested in getting involved in the hobby.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: I'll put on my feminist hat here.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: What's the deal with board games being largely marketed for, produced by, designed by and sold by straight white men?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: There's very little representation out there for females or people of color in the industry, and I think there's definitely room for everyone to get to the table and not just the straight white men.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: So shout out to diversity.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you, jared, for the DEI.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so so if you're a woman or LGBTQ or whatever it is, there's plenty of room for diversity in gaming.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: So get out there.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: There's a spot at the table for you.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Yep From the from the straight white man podcast.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: We, yes, we stand with the uh the fight for equality in gaming and everywhere yeah, yeah and stonemaier games.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Man, they, I know j I I watched jamie's videos and I mean it was kind of a big move.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: He went out and he for viticulture.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: At the start of the game you always start with a mama and a papa card and he went out of his way to.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: When they sold the viticulture world expansion, they put blue mama cards and pink papa cards in there, so you could start with two papas and two mamas, just to show that a family doesn't always have to be a mom and a dad.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: So yeah there is definitely we're moving in the right direction as a society and as a board game hobby, so that's good to see.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know, um, speaking of Everdell, uh, when they sold their big box collection, I know that they changed some verbiage where it's not man and wife, with the little mice creatures that are married to one another that earn you points when you pair them up.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: They changed them to like, I don't know, boy mouse, girl mouse or I don't know what it is, but it's not husband and wife anymore.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I know that they changed it for inclusion purposes.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, shout out to inclusion and diversity in games yeah, I mean we said what's the deal with it, and then we talked about all the good things going on, but there are still plenty there's still plenty out there drastically underrepresented yeah, all right.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it's gonna be hard to follow up that social justice movement.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: But what's the deal with publishers putting unrealistic player counts on the box?
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: For me it's fine.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I know it's go to BoardGameGeek and it'll tell you what it plays best at.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: But if you're telling me on the box that I can play some social deduction game with two players, sure I can.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: But should I?
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Will that be a good experience for somebody that picked up this game out of a recommendation?
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: They're like it says it plays two players and so they sit down and play it and they're like that wasn't very fun.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Just because it can be played at a player count doesn't mean it should be, and I think all games should put a best at player count on the box.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: So I like that.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there are some games you should not play at six players, even if it tells you you can.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: And now I'm going to.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Now I'm going to go back and stab at stonemaier games a little bit, because they put on viticulture that you can play with.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: I may be six players.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I do not want to be playing viticulture for four and a half hours like at two players.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: It's like an hour and a half, that's good.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: At three players, you're pushing into two Anything over that.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: No, thank you.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: And six is egregious.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Nobody should be playing Viticulture at six players.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just fact-checked myself.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: It says six players.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't imagine a world playing Viticulture at six players.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: But even if you're going to say it can be played there, I think if you are a publisher and you've done the research and you know you've play, tested the game, you know what it's best at, you know what the ideal player count is.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Just put it on the box.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Now that may again capitalism.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: It behooves you to appeal to the widest range of people and play counts as possible to sell more games.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: But I think throwing a best at player count on the box is moving in the right direction because, yeah, I hate to see people pick up a game and then play it in the wrong circumstance and then have a bad opinion of it.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, on the flip side of that, what's the deal with publishers that shoehorn in a solo mode on the tail end of a Kickstarter just to sell it to solo players?
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Because, as somebody who appreciates a good solo game or solo campaign or a solo version of whatever board game, some of them are really terrible and quite difficult to play and just not straight up not fun.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, don't shoehorn solo modes into every single game, especially those publishers that are going straight to kickstarter yeah, if your solo mode is, play it two-handed boo yeah, or yeah, some of the automation or some of the dinky things, I don't know.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: There's good ways to do it and there's bad ways to do it, and most of the time they're not great, all right.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: What's the deal with every publisher going straight to Kickstarter nowadays?
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I know that you're going to raise a whole bunch of money and, especially if you pack 1,000 miniatures into your game, you're bound to get funded and have all of these stretch goals that are going to go on forever, and you're going to ship the game three years from now.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Publishers or some games that would sell just as well through word of mouth and through people on the internet talking about games that are really good and stand out, that don't have to go to kickstarter and I know that it helps up front some of those costs.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: But it's really frustrating when you have this brand new game that's released and designed and everything's good, and then you have to wait two years after you back it to actually get the game in your hand.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: So, uh, that is pretty nitpicky, but it's really frustrating to me that every single game now has to go through kickstarter.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, or game found or yeah, crowdfunding has its purpose, right.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: It's supposed to help people that don't have the money to complete a project, but now it's just a pre-order system for for games in the future and pretty much putting all the risk on the the buyers, instead of the publishers.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I hate kickstarter I I literally like I love what it was supposed to do, but I am so.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just not patient in this Amazon prime world, but I get so excited when I see a Kickstarter and then I look at when it's going to be delivered.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I'm like it's not even worth getting excited, like I'm literally about to just spend $200 on some ramped up deluxified game that I'm not going to get for two years, when I could just spend that money on a game that's available right now.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of where I'm at with this like Root and Mad Kala thing.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, I'm super excited about it, but I would rather spend my money on a game I could play now and hopefully in two years I'll be able to pick up that expansion to root at the game store.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: But man, it is exciting when they deliver.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Showing up every other day.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and on the flip side of that, all these publishers, they'll have the core game that is, you know, super cheap or whatever.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: They have deluxified versions that are crazy expensive.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: But then some of the stretch goals or the things that they're adding on are just, I understand that it's to incentivize them spreading the word and to get more backers, that it's to incentivize them spreading the word and to get more backers, but it's so frustrating when they have things that are ready to go and be included that then are not included or they say that they're going to give it to you later, once they have more money.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: That is so dirty and I hate that.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: The Madcala version or the Madcala Kickstarter, props to Druid City Games because they have all of these deluxified components and additional cards and neoprene mats and additional characters and stuff that they're just including for free right off the bat.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: The base game of Madcala comes with a neoprene mat that fits in the box.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: No.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm going to fact check you on that.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Some people do it right, some people do it right, some people do it right and others do not.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: What's the deal with not having player aids?
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Come on, I love player aids.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: When I see player aids in a game, my heart sings and they can't be that complicated to produce.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: My heart sings and they can't be that complicated to produce.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: You have to print four extra cards in most cases to get four player aids for the players, just to lay out hey, this is what your turn should look like.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: That way, while people are waiting for their turn, they can look at their little card and have an idea of what they're supposed to do and you're not constantly passing a rule book around to try and figure out the basics of a game.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: It seems I'm not a game publisher, but it seems like such a minimal thing to throw in there that makes gameplay so much smoother.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, arcs has player aids that are like a pamphlet.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: They made a pamphlet player aid for each player and it was great, like I mean, everybody had their own like little mini rule book there and they could look at okay, what happens when I take a build turn?
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, how many dice do I get to do in combat?
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, it just makes it so much smoother.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Again, gaming is hard.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Anything a publisher can do to make it a little easier on the players is going to go a long way.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Or Druid City with Wonderland's War, has the flowchart.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I love the flowchart.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: That flowchart is baller and I'm going to read you this straight from the Kickstarter Fully stretched.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Why no stretch goals?
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: From day one we went to unlock all the stretch goals that would have normally been trickled out over the course of the daily reveals.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: We wanted to put our best foot forward, show you the best version of the game from the start.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: This lets you back it worry-free.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Then you scroll way down.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: What's in the box 24 character cards, premium chips, a dice neoprene stitched edge, neoprene playmat.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Health counter reference cards.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Reference player reference cards uh, doubler shards, normal shards, uh.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: First player token, commoner cards, a custom tray that fits everything in the box and a rule book for 4545.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: That's outrageous, I don't.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: I I'm going to have to look at this myself.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: I believe you, but I don't believe that you're talking about premium chips, a neoprene mat and all that stuff you just mentioned, and then, yeah, they have premium chips, linen, finished cards and rule books.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: They're already expanding with additional characters.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: They're giving you a caterpillar expansion.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: And then they actually just did this cool thing since I was kind of following the campaign they were having people vote on additional characters that you can play as.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: So I think they're going to do the white queen.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: And then I know that tweedle d and Tweedledum, as playable characters, were in, were leading the charge at the moment, but I'm not sure where they ended up.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I think we're at time for our airing of grievances, so so we're going to take a quick break for some feats of strength and then we'll be back to go over the fence.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Alrighty, okay, let's move on and go over the fence.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Clay.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's move on and go over the fence, Clay.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: What have you been doing besides board gaming Again, board game, adjacent, probably and I shared it to our Instagram story for Operation Game Night.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I have been spending time trying to organize all the Marvel United crap that I have.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I got a big card case holder I don't know what you call them, but you know, would you store baseball cards in or something and got a bunch of providers to try and make it a little easier to get the player you want.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: And then, in that same vein, I wanted to also reduce the amount of boxes Granted.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: I only have the multiverse Kickstarter, but that came with I don't know, probably 10 boxes.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: And at this stage I now have that card box with all the cards for the villains and heroes.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: It's like a four lengths wide, so it's pretty big box, but all the cards are in there.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Eventually they will have dividers.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Right now it's just the heroes.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: And then I have like a little fishing whole lore holder that I have all the tokens in.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: And then I have one regular Marvel United box that is holding all the locations, villain dashboards and rule books, and then I have just the huge mega box that came with all the Kickstarter add-ons and I got it.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Looks like a two-year-old did it, but I created all these little compartments and layers with tissue boxes and different cardboard from around the house so that I could stack in these different trays.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: So all the minis fit in that one box, which is amazing.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: Even some of the big ones, like the Goliath mini is big and the moon girl and dino mini is big.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Moon girl and T-Rex.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, that's what I've been doing is trying to organize that.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: I succeeded in minimizing the amount of boxes, that I succeeded in minimizing the amount of boxes, but I don't know that I have improved my time to get it played because, yeah, it's still to try and find a mini that I want in that huge box, even with the compartments that I made for it is daunting, so I might have to actually go through and label each of the little compartments I made with what minis are in there.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: That way you can just kind of get glance and see okay, in this tissue box there's all the ones from war kings and you know whatever expansions.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was quite the project and it's still ongoing, but I am pleased that I reduced down from like 15 Marvel United boxes, including the ones I had before the Marvel United the multiverse Kickstarter, into like three boxes.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: That's pretty impressive.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: What are you going to do with all the empty boxes?
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: I throw them away.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, just toss them, go green, you're not going to do with all the empty boxes I throw them away.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, just toss them, go green.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: You're not going to hang them on the wall.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: I've already gotten away with my fair share of board game decor in the house.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Fair enough.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of want to do something similar with unmatched, because I have so many of those boxes.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: They're taking up like two cubes in my calyxx and I just want to consolidate them down in a clean way and back in the day, who does that?
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Restoration games yeah, yeah, they launched, uh, like a battle cube type thing that fits the heroes and the cards nicely and the the cube is like kind of see-through on the front so you can see what hero you're looking at.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Stores the cars behind.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: It's really nice and clean.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they only did that once and it has never come back, and the third party ones are rather expensive.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: So eventually I want to invest in something that can store those nicely, or all 3d print something.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the amount of money I spent on the organization for Marvel United is like 10 bucks.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: The card deviders were super cheap, that card holder was super cheap, and then literally just taking empty tissue boxes and Amazon box trash and making compartments.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: So it certainly is not great, but it was economical that's, uh, that's what I have all of my marvel united in is a card holder just like that yeah and it does okay for what it is, but it's probably not a long-term solution.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: They have, like some really nice laser cut engraved like wooden boxes that fit all that stuff.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: But maybe, maybe someday someday.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: What's your over the fence, travis?
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: my over the fence is also board game related.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I've been watching some board game movies lately so well.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Not all board games, some table talk games, but the first is the new dungeons and dragons movie, which was actually really great I was really surprised at how good that was.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Stars that are cast, decent enough storyline, easy to follow.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: You don't need any background knowledge on what Dungeons and Dragons even is.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: There's tons of nods for people that are huge fans.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: But you don't have to be somebody that's played Dungeons and Dragons since the 50s or when did it come out?
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: 60s, 70s.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: You don't need to have played Dungeons and Dragons before to appreciate it.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, great story.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Then I watched Jumanji Jumanji, the original with Robin Williams, and that movie holds up.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Some of the CGI is pretty terrible at this point, like little monkeys and stuff just look bad oh yeah, we tried to watch, so much fun.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: We tried to watch that with the kids he like a month ago and they were scared.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: They were like, oh my god.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is more like that it's pretty legit.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Scary like the lion is like chasing them through the house and like, yeah, the stampede part, like everything in the house starts to shake and they come bursting through the bookcase.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: It's amazing.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were not up for that level of terror in their lives just yet.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Then the third one that I just watched today actually is called Family Pack on Netflix and it is a French movie that is about, or loosely tied to, the werewolf social deduction game and it's about a family that is sitting down to play werewolf and they also.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: They don't get sucked into the game, but they get like transported back in time and they are in a real life version of werewolf.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: And it was just okay.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Compared to the other two, it did not really hold a candle, but it was still fun and it was cool to see them try and adapt a social deduction game into a movie like that.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: It just didn't have any of those tense moments at all and they kind of skirted the rules of what the game normally is anyways.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: So yeah, if you're into werewolf and you know anything about that franchise, it's called family pack on netflix.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: It's originally a french film, so they are speaking french with english subtitles, but there is an option for a dub if you would rather listen to it in english interesting the kid.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: like the kids could handle that.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: It's got like werewolves in it, but like, but there is an option for a dub if you would rather listen to it in English.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Interesting the kids could handle that.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: It's got werewolves in it, but they're all practical effect werewolves, so they're like people in big werewolf costumes.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Have you seen Game Night with Jason Bateman?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I have seen that one.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: That one's pretty good.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love Jason Bateman, that one's probably more tense and like real social deduction than anything else, yeah, or than this werewolf movie was.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: But anyways, that was my over the fences, those three movies.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: We've just been holding down the fort here hey, well, it's been great getting those things off my chest here.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you, elaine aired some grievances.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: We sure did.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: That's all for this week's episode.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: If you are enjoying what you're hearing, go ahead, give us a shout out on social media or just tell a friend about it.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: If you're liking what you're hearing, tell somebody, give us a reference and have them come join the fun.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: We want to hear from you and we want to grow our community.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: So go ahead, tell your friends if you're enjoying the podcast.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: And until next week.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: I have been Travis Smith, he has been Clayton Gable and we're out of here, buddy, and we're out.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.