Latest / Mama Making Podcast / Kate Kurdziej | Sun, Sea & Strategy: How One Mom Packed Up Her Family, Moved to Spain, and Built a Business That Finally Fits Her Life

Transcript

Kate Kurdziej | Sun, Sea & Strategy: How One Mom Packed Up Her Family, Moved to Spain, and Built a Business That Finally Fits Her Life · Mama Making Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the Mama Making podcast where we share stories of moms making impact in their own lives and in the world around them.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jessica and each week I sit down with women who are building businesses, leading communities, shaping culture, and redefining what success looks like inside of motherhood.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because motherhood does not have to stop your ambition.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: It can transform it.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get into it.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone and welcome to the Mama Making Podcast.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Jessica.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you're new, welcome.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not new, then welcome back.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Today I am so excited to have Kate Kerjay on the podcast.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: She is a business strategist, retreat host, and the founder of Olivier Consultancy.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: She has packed up her life and moved to Spain with her husband and six-year-old son and built a business that has made it possible.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: She helps establish founders create businesses that feel clear, spacious, and strategically led rather than reactive and overwhelming.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Kate built her business around the freedom that she wanted, more space, more choice, a life that doesn't require being permanently switched on.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And she now helps other ambitious women do the same.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Kate, welcome.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to have you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Jess.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad I'm here.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so tell me uh more about you, who you are, where you're from, whatever you're comfortable sharing.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so first and foremost, I am a mom to lovely Oliver, who is the namesake of my consultancy.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: So Olivier consultancy comes from my son Oliver.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I started my consultancy when he was five months old, and we lived in the UK.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: He's my first and my last child.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very much in the one and done club.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I was working in wealth management when I found out I was pregnant.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a very stressful, toxic place to be as a woman, and it was even worse as a pregnant woman.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that was my kind of catalyst for change.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: This was all during the time of COVID as well, like right at the start of COVID in 2020.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where it all started, nearly six years ago now.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: At the time we're recording this, it's yeah, I'm just coming up to my sixth business birthday in September.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: And my business has gone through various evolutions from UK, then we moved to France actually to begin with.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: We did two years in France, and then we liked it but didn't like it enough for us to stay there permanently and continued on to Spain after two years.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we've been in Spain three years now, so we actually left five years ago.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the business has gone through various evolutions, but right now I can I can very firmly say that I'm the hack that I have been because of the things that you mentioned in that intro there, Jeff.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So getting on top of my business and not working reactively has been an absolute game changer for me.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Structuring my business in a way that I don't need to be on 24-7, and I work with service business owners generally, and there is kind of a an undercurrent of people pleasing, being permanently available to people, and just generally never stopping working.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it's taken a long time to unlearn that kind of psyche, but now I have, I can firmly say that we're where we're meant to be in Spain, and this is why I love helping women do the same.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to follow the same path, but with the same result of feeling happy and fulfilled and successful with their business, but their life as well, because it's it's intertwined so much, isn't it?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what was interesting to me about you was being able to take what your like dream was of traveling and having a business and being able to kind of pull it all into one.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to talk from the very beginning of making the decision to pack up your family and move.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you started in France and then moved to Spain currently.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to talk about what that really entails.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, I imagine it's not just like a hey, let's pick up and go.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: What was the decision-making process with that?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that's a good question.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: The the decision to move from the UK, where I'm from, like, you know, that was that was home.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: My husband and I worked abroad quite a lot.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: We'd worked for four years in South Korea, I've been to university in China, like I've traveled a lot.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: But the UK is, you know, home country.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it never felt like home because they're two different things, like where you're from and where it feels like home, don't have to be the same place.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I always knew that I wanted to end up in France.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was always the dream.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in hindsight, it maybe wasn't France, it was just Europe, you know, like that sort of like Western, that Mediterranean sort of vibe, different language, different food, longer lunches, more outdoors time.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think in hindsight, now I can reflect on the whole process because it's been a lot over the last five years.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was craving was that life in the sun.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, in the UK, generally speaking, we don't get that outdoors life.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, people listening to this, maybe where you live, you don't get that kind of thing.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: You might get glimpses of it, you might get periods of it, but for the 12 months of the year, I felt like I was inside.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not an inside person.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like made to drink cold drinks outside.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's my vibe.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I like to wear flip-flops, I like to wear, you know, best tops, dress it and be outside.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not like a cut, you know.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I've got plenty of friends that love that.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like autumnal, they get so excited when like pumpkin spice lattes come back in, and I just think great for you, but that isn't that isn't my vibe at all.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I always kind of knew that that was missing from my life, and I was thinking, like, how can we do that?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the actual move abroad was facilitated by the start of my business, and I think that's what kind of was the catalyst to go actually, if we move abroad, we have to work, you know.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: We we've we're still young, like we have to work at this point.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we generate money?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: How do we actually make a living when we're abroad?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And actually being employed abroad is really hard.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like to be a sort of foreigner looking for a job in another country, your chances are so, so, so slim unless you're very specialist in what you do, you know, a very specific kind of engineer or software person or something like that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew ultimately like we were gonna have to make our own way there.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: So starting the business wasn't the reason why I started the business.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I started that because I couldn't go back to my work, like that was something that I didn't want to do ever again.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: So starting the business came from that, but that was kind of the the kick up the arse to get this thing like moving along.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Of like I'm in the position now where I can make my own money from anywhere in the world because everything I do at that point or everything I did at that point was online.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: So moving abroad was kind of like, okay, this is the opportunity to do that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the thought process behind it back to the original question was the kind of understanding that I wasn't living in alignment of what I want, what I really, really wanted from my life, and bringing a child into the world only amplified that side of it, right?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like having a child, I think just is like a mirror.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's it, you know, your parenting style, your sort of, you know, the way that you deal with your emotions, everything and everything is like reflected back to you.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: So the fact that I was having to stay inside a house in the north of England, and I wasn't living outside, I wasn't taking my baby outside all the time, and COVID and lockdown just sort of act like that at the time.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was kind of the trigger point, if you like, of like we've got the opportunity now, we know that we're not living the life that we want to live.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it because we're young enough to now do it and build a life abroad rather than wait till we retire and think we're gonna spend the next 30 years, 40 years living that life that we always know isn't the one for us, and then you do it, and that's if you get to retirement, you know.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Plenty of people don't get to that point.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we did have some losses during COVID as well, so it kind of was that bit of that YOLO moment of right place, right time, nothing's ever perfect.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of have to make it up as you go along to a certain extent, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: But things were aligning to the best that they could at that point.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we just jumped in and thought, if we're gonna do it, let's do it now.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm always of the opinion of like what's the worst that could happen with things.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's the worst that can happen?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: You do it for a year, you do it for a couple of years, it doesn't work.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: As long as you're you're doing it sensibly and you're mitigating your risk and have a little buffer in your bank account that means you can move back home.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: I could probably get a job, it might not be the one that I really want, but I could probably walk back into a wealth management job.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: What's the worst that could happen?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I think if you go with that mindset or if you can have a sort of safety net behind you, if you like, then that made everything at that point feel like, okay, if we're gonna like jump and reach now for the thing that we want, this is this is the time to do it.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we're very lucky that it has worked.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm you know, I know people that it doesn't quite work for, or they do it and they feel like actually it's not been quite the right decision in the end, and that's still okay.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's still okay.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: But there's so many moving parts behind the scenes that you kind of have to go with the flow a little bit.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I can talk to that point for a long time, but moving to a different country and different cultures and different paperwork styles, bureaucracy, that in itself is something that you have to have quite a resilience mindset over because it it's hard like to to land in a country and suddenly live there and work there and put your child in education and do all of this talk to the water company, the electric company, like all of these kind of things.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have a certain mindset to be able to do that, definitely.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally identify with the like feeling like you don't totally fit in the place that you're in.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I live in Chicago in the Chicago suburbs, and so it's cold most of the year for us.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like May to September is our warm season.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: If I could live in like a 75 summy all the time, I would.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's one of those like back and forth factors of like we're really close with our family.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And my son has cousins that he sees on a regular basis, and that was super important to me for him to be around cousins.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I knew it was how impactful it has been for me to have my cousins in my life.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so for us, it was like, well, until they're in a place where they're like, okay, we are okay to not see each other all the time.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're definitely making a move somewhere.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I would love to know more about the culture aspect and like what does it, what did it look like going from your culture and, like you said, the northern UK to raising a child in a culture that was completely different than your own.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the plan all my life was to move to France.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I spent a lot of time in France.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I met my husband in France, he's from England, but you know, we worked together in France.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've worked on and off in France, we got married in France.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: So the whole French side of things, I felt very, I felt almost like half French a lot of the time.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like that felt normal.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: I spoke the language really well, or I speak the language really well.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't a problem.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: But then when we decided to suddenly go like that and move to Spain, that was the kind of like shit.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't speak Spanish.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't know a lot about really haven't spent much time in Spain at all, apart from like the odd city break to like Barcelona or Valencia or Madrid, like snippets in time of my whole life.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I really don't know a lot about it at all.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that was kind of that was quite scary.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: But we'd done the hard thing of leaving already.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'd kind of done the thing of like leaving the UK and being abroad.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: We're already abroad, we were already in a culture that wasn't our own, but definitely like used it because it's like we just need to do the same things, bureaucracy speaking, but we just do it in a different language.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we actually put my son, my son was having some like speech and language issues and sort of behavioural issues in France.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: He was in a French nursery school, like Cresh, he was you know two, three years old at that point, and he was starting to learn the language, but they weren't dealing with his behavioural issues in a way that was a modern-day approach, shall we say?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it didn't feel quite the right place.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there were a few other things that we were like, mmm, it's not it's not good enough.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we put a pin in the map and moved.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the big pins in the map was the where can we go to an international school that is British curriculum or certainly English speaking, where his speech and language can improve and therefore his behavior will improve because that was completely linked.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: We started Googling, like, okay, we could go to Bordeaux or Toulouse or Paris and all of this, and we're just like, do we even have the same France?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we don't have to.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: My business was doing really well.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we started thinking, well, we're not that happy in the winter here in France.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Summers are beautiful, but it's still quite quiet where we live.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So we kind of knew what we were looking for.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, to your point of like raising the kid in a different culture, because we'd already moved out of our home culture and into a new culture, that definitely eased the journey.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we could look to like we feel like we'd done all the difficult bits, so we actually were quite relaxed moving to Spain in that sense of like, yeah, like it's not gonna be like France, it's not gonna be like England, but it's gonna be like Spain, and that's okay.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many good things here, like there's so much more welcoming of families and children, and you know, like Oliver can walk into the barber shop to get his haircut and he gets given like chocolate and sweets and all that, you know, like everyone's so like, oh, don't worry, the kids are making a noise, you know, like it's that kind of approach, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think, yes, that's like every country has its disadvantages and its sort of negative points, which you see as well.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: But if the good massively outways the bad, I think moving to a different culture is actually like I see it as exciting, I see it as an opportunity to learn a new language.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's two languages at school because we've got a regional language of Valenciano, which is like a bit like Catalan.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: So he learns two languages, he's got loads of international friends here as well, his Spanish friends.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, that's kind of like well, that's kind of the whole point.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't feel particularly, like I say, like the UK is my home.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just from there.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: I love making friends with people all around the world, and I've always moved and lived abroad, so for him to have that experience as well, he just gets to do it completely bilingually now.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas I have to like work at languages and I'm very much still working at my Spanish, he gets to do that naturally, and like for me, that's like a huge gift that we can give to give to him.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I see, you know, to your question, like I see the exciting parts because that still massively outweighs any any negative part.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I think a lot of it does come down to, like I said, that resilience mindset of like everything is a learning point, and that's quite mentally draining.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: When you move abroad, like everything is new all the time.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, if you go and start a new job, even in the US, like you start a new job, and that first day or first couple of days, first week, it's like everything's new, you don't know where you're going, you don't know who to speak to, you feel like an absolute idiot all the time.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that on repeat when you move to a new country, and it doesn't get easier because it's like every time you have to do a new thing, you go through that.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of the things are just the first time, you know, like you only need to get that thing, like swap your driving license one time.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you just think, I'll just get through it, I'll just get through it.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think mentally that has massively helped me slow down and relax because I think I just need to get through it, like, and not in like a I just need to get through it survival way, but just we're just learning, it's just a new thing, it doesn't have to be perfect, and that for me is like a massive key takeaway of moving abroad is that it doesn't have to be perfect, you just have to take the first step or two, you just have to create momentum, and then you learn and do things as as you go, if that makes sense.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of it is like some people are like, oh my god, I could never do this.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I I feel like you have had the travel bug.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you studied in China and then met your husband in France.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's something in people that's like I can do this, and I think that just from traveling a tiny bit myself, I feel like I come back from a place feeling like I'm thinking differently and able to problem solve differently.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And being able to watch your child do that, I'm sure, is so cool.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, like that's the whole point.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: For me for me, like I mean, like we all love our kids, right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like my but my world, my whole world revolves around my son.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I like I feel like we all need to have a balance to it as well.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I live here as well because I want to live here.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is a choice for me too.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you're totally right, like that is that is one of the best things that I can see out of this, is that my son gets to to live this life that so many people dream of, you know, and we don't live in like a massive multi-million pound villa.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's plenty of them around here, but that's not our budget.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: We live like normal lives, but we get to do it in the in the place that we want to do it.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we get to pack up a cool bag and go to the Mediterranean Sea, which is like five, ten minutes away by car.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we get to wander around the old town Spanish streets, stop and have tapas and a fear, like it's just it's kind of like that holiday rose-tinted view of like, oh, wouldn't it be lovely to live in Spain?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like we actually live there and we do this, like that normal life for us.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel really rich and wealthy because that's the lifestyle, but I don't have the the kind of million-pound dream life that you might think it might take to move abroad.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: It just is a normal life, but with the added advantages of living in a certainly in a Mediterranean country.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love the idea of going on a trip and being like, can I live here or not?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's so cool to be doing that, to to do the the extended trip that's like really just your life now.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to talk more about what it was like.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously you're just living normal life currently.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: What has transitioning like your business life looked like for you?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: How long have you got it it a bureaucratic uh I wouldn't say nightmare, but I would say it takes a lot of time and paperwork and you know, with visas and business.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I started as a limited company in the UK.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Olivier Consultancy was a limited company, and then I closed that down to become the equivalent of self-employed in France.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then when we moved, I was like, oh shit, to close that down and start a whole new entity in Spain.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: But on the surface, it's still in a VA consultancy.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I kept the same website, my socials are all the same.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so from a sort of client, user interface point of view, nothing much has changed.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: But for me personally, behind the scenes, there's been a lot because obviously every time it involves different paperwork, different accountants, getting used to a different system, like all of the things that you have to do that, like in your own country, you're like, oh, like accountancy or like business stuff, like you know, the kind of legal side of your business, you have to do it in another another language, and you have to learn a totally new system.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that has been an absolute like head F of just getting used to all of these things.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: But again, I think you can almost feel like the neural pathways being formed when you do this kind of thing because you you learn from it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I say, it's all a learning experience, and it's not one I would necessarily want to repeat on a regular basis.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: However, it's it's worth it because now, you know, I'm not trying to do like cross-border taxation or have a business in another country.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very much like resident and fiscally resident in Spain, which is nice because then I can pay all my taxes here, pay my social security here, I'm in the health system, you know, my kids in school here, like all of this stuff is is very much like cut ties with other countries if it's just here now.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: But it's all doable.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think all of this stuff, you know, it it feels like a lot and it is a lot.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if you aren't, you know, anyone thinking of moving, if they're listening to this, you need to just become like the most organized, prepared person, have lists, have processes, tick them up, have due dates, have spreadsheets, keep a track of it because you when you move abroad, there's so many different things to know.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like in Spain, you have to change your driving license for a Spanish driving license.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: But to be able to do that, you have to go have a medical, you have to go have like a weird driver test thing.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like an idea, like all of these different things that all has to be done within six months, but the certificate only is valid for three months, so you have to get your appointment within that time.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's so many little nuances that you can't possibly hold all of that in your head.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, make yourself lists, work through it, and don't underestimate the time that it takes to work through this.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's one of my biggest learnings from this, actually, Jeff, like moving abroad, it's like having another full time job when you're in the thick of it, because it takes so much time to go to appointments.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes the whole appointment might be like 30 minutes, but it'll take the whole day to get there.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have to go have our fingerprints taken, but we have to go to Alicante to do that, which is an hour's drive, to sit there, have to wait for.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: It and we have to come back, and it's like that's going to be like the best part of the day by the time we get home, and it'll be for like a 10-minute fingerprint appointment.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, don't underestimate how long you need to deal with this kind of paperwork, but it's worth it.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how much do you want the goal, right?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you want that thing?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, you have to do these things to be able to legally work and live in in the country.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I imagine through this time you have had to kind of like shape shift your business a bit to be more sustainable, time efficient, create more boundaries for yourself in that very early initial phase, but then like as it has grown to like really again meet the goal of of what the dream is that you're going for.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: What has that looked like for you in terms of where you started with your business and where it is now?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: So started in the UK when Ollie was five months old.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: So he was, I was like breastfeeding whilst on my laptop learning about like doing certifications.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was there was a period of time where it was just during nap times that I was working, you know, like it's really classic, like mum starting a business from a kitchen table vibes at the beginning.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: That first year was like really scrappy.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: I made, you know, I made money from it, but you know, I look back at the income that I made that year, and now I'm like, oh wow, I make like five plus times that now.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: But it was amazing for the amount of time that I was putting in at that point.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I realized that actually you can only you can only work within the time that you've got.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if there's any, especially like new mums listening to this, and they're like, you know, everyone else has like nine-hour days, or they can put so much time into your business, but I can't.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've only got like one or two hours.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was there too.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it I think a lot of women go through this, especially mums go through this, where they just have like you're comparing your first chapter to someone's chapter 10.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Then I went the opposite.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: I suddenly got childcare, and then we ended up moving abroad, and I was working eight in the morning.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: My husband was taking Ollie to Crash to nursery.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was working eight in the morning until 1 p.m.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: when he'd pick him up for Crash.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Ollie would only go to sleep on me, so I would have to walk him through his nap after lunch, put him down in his cot, I would go and do more work until six o'clock, and then I would make dinner, and then we'd put Ollie down to bed, and then I'd open my laptop again.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I was probably doing like 12 hours a day at that point.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember thinking, like, I was making shit tons of money, but I was so burnt out because it was like that two-year-old, three-year-old point as well, where they need you all the time, and you can't get a break, like you're totally touched out at that point.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: And my business was doing well, but it was doing well because I was putting hours in and working really, really hard.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of had this moment, Jess, where I was like, this is so unsustainable.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want, you know, where do I see myself in five years' time, 10 years' time?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm still doing this, then that's not success.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that is not.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's periods of time where you have to put in extra hours and you're in that building stage, but there comes a point where you have to come out of that building stage and go into a stage of business that is sustainable in the much, much longer run.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I was at that point, and when we moved to Spain, I was actually sitting literally about a month after we moved, I was sitting in a restaurant, really nice restaurant with views over to the Mediterranean.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd taken my mum out for like it was like a really fancy five-course like tasting lunch thing.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was really it was like really lovely, like out of like really out of the usual kind of like 10 euro plate of food.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: It just felt really fancy.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: I probably felt very flush that day and was like, let's go for lunch, I'll treat you.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I took a picture on uh put it on Instagram stories where like my business kind of you know, that is where my audience lives generally on socials, is on Instagram.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I took a picture and I said, Who wants to come along for lunch with me?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thinking I meant I'm gonna take a picture of each course and tell you what it is, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And just, you know, talk about it, a little bit of a fun thing to do over lunchtime.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I got some responses saying, Oh, you know, I thought you were inviting us out to Spain, like I thought you were doing this, I thought you were, you know, inviting us.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I was like, hmm.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I put a story poll up and I said, Would you be up for it if I hosted a retreat in Spain?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I got an overwhelming amount of yes, absolutely, like I would love to know more details.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, hmm, I hadn't really thought of retreats before.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: They always felt like they were for like much more experience, or like I had supported other people when I was doing like operations management online.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'd supported like big coaches to run their retreats and you know, get all of the logistics thought of behind the scenes.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: I never thought of hosting my own, but as soon as someone suggested it, you know, when you're like, I think that's that's the thing because I can host business retreats, which is what I was doing.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was doing the business strategy and the business consultancy, so I can do that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: But the container can be on the travel side, it can be the retreat side, it can be come and spend some time with me in Spain, sample this kind of like lifestyle, get some time away from your day-to-day.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of snowballed from there.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have a wait list, my last retreat solved out in 30 minutes, I help other people with their retreats now, because I think it's just on that overlap of skills in that most people who run retreats are like really great yoga teachers or you know mindset coaches.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of like women's wellness retreats, things like that, but they haven't got the business acumen to get it right as a commercial offer.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other side of it is that the people who are hosting retreats don't have that business acumen in the business strategy side of things, or they're not actively hosting themselves if they are a business coach.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: So my kind of my specialism sits at the the kind of crossroads of a lot of things.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I still I run my business strategy retreat.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm about to launch my 2027 retreat.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's still I run them and then growing their vigor now.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I brought in this secondary kind of part of the business where I help other people create a commercial opera at their retreat idea as well.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it's going really well because I feel re-reinvigorated.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think, and maybe people listen to this, maybe you just like when you work online, there is a certain element of when the human touch, like where I need to like be in front of someone.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: I wanna I wanna talk to you.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: My energy is, you know, it's it's different.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I'm a different person, but my kind of you vibe off people, don't you?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's an energy when you're standing next to someone talking, when you're on a Zoom call, and that's totally normal, it's going through a camera, but it it's that kind of thing that I was starting to crave more after being online for so long.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And everything just happened at the right time, and I was looking to sort of slightly pivot as well.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was getting a little bit stop bored of the online consultancy, but like it wasn't giving me enough anymore.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't it wasn't lighting me up.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so if I could do the same work, because that's still my skill set, right?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's still my thing, but I get to deliver it in a way that's exciting to me now.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think that what's cool about that is really being able to scale your business in a very different way that kind of takes the the the core of the work that you're doing.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then again, like at the end of the day, we're creating businesses because like we like to do it.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's fun, it's it's what's interesting to us and what fuels us.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you're taking your original ideas and being able to really infuse it into two different areas of providing a retreat for people, but then also creating this other sector of it to teach people how to do that.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think you're so right.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people that are like, oh my God, you would be great to have to host a retreat.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: But the back end part of it is like, well, how do we do that?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love the work that you're doing in that area.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Where have you found that it's most beneficial for people on either side of this of the spectrum?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like who who is this for?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like you said, with your original thought in the beginning of like this is for really high-level people, what does it actually look like in in real time for you?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I work with established female service business owners.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: So so people who are delivering a service, usually online, like some people might have bring with some mortar kind of offices that they work in.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: But generally it's people in the service industry, so not people that are product-based.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: My my expertise is in is in the service industry.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love helping startups, but they're not my ideal client anymore.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: I love helping them almost for free.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I love meeting people in networking meetings and being like, right, this is great, like this is what you should do.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: But from a business point of view, they're not my ideal client.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: My ideal client are very much my ideal clients are very much established business owners.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: So they've been going at it a couple of years, you know, they're not in that startup world of funnel.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how do I set up mail alight or mail chip?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like they're not in that side of things now.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: They're kind of in the side of like, I'm making money, I've got clients, I'm probably hitting capacity.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what my capacity is.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Should I hire somebody?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Should I, or maybe I have hired somebody, but now how do I scale the business beyond that?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Some people aren't scaling like that.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: They're very much sticking to being a solopreneur, but they want to create more impact, they want to go deeper with their work, they want to look at different offers, they want to look at the profitability.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't matter what the actual goal is a lot of the time, but they're usually moving quickly from five to six figures.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Some clients are multi-six figures, but you know, this isn't like multi-million pound businesses.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is very much like mums usually running businesses, but that are making money and they're doing it seriously and they want to do it properly.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: And this isn't like a hobby business for them.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the two people that I help, you know, for the two different services, the business retreats that I run, the business strategy retreats, they're called Sun C and Strategy.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a chance to step away from the noise.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: And usually I describe the noise as like most people block in like an hour a week or a couple of hours a month, maybe like a day a month, to do like CEO time, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, work on their business, whatever the hell that means, right?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And work on their strategy.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: But then they get nearer the time and a client is like, Oh, I really need to speak to you, or the kids are sick, or something happens, and that CEO time, you know, that real business planning strategy time goes out the window yet again.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Even though it's the most important thing in their business, it gets deprioritized, deprioritized.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And by doing that, it means the big decisions aren't made, the big questions in the business aren't considered and aren't answered, and they don't have that space and time to think.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: And even if they do get like an hour of CEO time, let's say, they're sort of sat at their desk as normal, staring at their project management tool with all of their admin tasks, and it kind of just turns into like an admin moppy bit time.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the retreats are there to sort of counteract that.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: They're like an anti-det to that.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you come away with a small group.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: We don't do like big third-person retreats.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is like half a dozen people, let's say, all women, all established female service providers from different modalities.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're a web designer, a self-belief coach, you know, a creative writing agency.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter what it is.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: It matters that you want to work on your business.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a framework that I work through on retreats, right?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Which is clarity strategy action.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I provide different, like facilitate different workshops, and we move through things.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And often people look at their business through the lens that they needed to, but they haven't had the time or the space to do that.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: I ask the right question at the right time.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always say, it's not like a training, it's not like a training week that you're on.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's that I can just see things that you probably have got a blind spot on.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: And the other side of that is that because the group is small, you get to know each other's businesses, and they'll always be like an accountant, an HR, like a PR, marketer, you know, so you can kind of come at it from your expertise as well.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the breakthroughs that come from that are incredible.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've had someone say they've had more breakthroughs in four days than they have in seven years of business, it's been transformational, it's now non-negotiable in their diary every year.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of these kind of things come at come from it because I've been able to create this space that I know is needed because I needed it at that time, right?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like we often create the person that we were a couple years ago.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I wish this existed at that point.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like a structured corporate retreat.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is very much like turn up in your maxi dress, don't buy them, don't bother putting makeup on if you don't want to.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Flip-flops by the pool.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, this is the vibe that we're going for on retreat because I know that that's what you need.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know that you don't need your kid like shouting at you about something for like another snack.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: You need peace and you need time where you're not needed by everybody to actually hear your own thoughts again and hear what you want to do because what you want to do always evolves.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Mine have, yours will have.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's, you know, where you started isn't where you end up.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that goal that you had at the end at the beginning won't be the one that you have at the end.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, how how do we change your business and adapt and bulk?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: So they're the business retreats, they're fabulous.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: The other side of it is that I use my business strategy skills, but within the retreat launch for other people.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, again, I work with established business owners who already have an audience, who probably already have people saying, Can you host your retreat?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, are we doing anything in person?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe they've led a room before, but they know that a retreat would like be totally amazing and they would love to do that.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they've done it, but they haven't really seen the financial reward from it.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: It just felt like an awful lot of work for probably less than they would make normally with their clients that week.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea is to build profitability and like a real commercial viability into the offer.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't come at it necessarily from get your crystals and let's manifest this retreat.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I come at it from it's a very specific offer, and retreats have their own mechanics behind it because you have very specific fixed costs with a specific timeline, like your villa or venue that you rent, that needs to be married up with let's say you offer payment plan to people.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, have you got enough cash in the bank in three months' time to pay the next instalment on your venue?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all of these kind of things that that usually trip a lot of people up, and they haven't even considered half the stuff that normally comes up in conversation with me.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure that there's profitability built into the retreat because if you do it right the first time, it gets so much easier the second time or subsequent time, and it becomes this race and repeat model where you're feeding your own business by having this retreat profit uh retreat revenue stream in your business because people will go on to work with you in other ways as well.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: So create this kind of nice ecosystem.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: But most people just think of it as wouldn't it be lovely to book a villa in Tuscany for a week and take my clients?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it would be great, but you'll probably come back thinking I won't do that again.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: So how can we make it something that is actually pretty cool to run but makes money in your business as well?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So they're the kind of two sides of it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: But under the under the umbrella, Jeff of retreats, you know, this is this is the thing that I love.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so amazing.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And on both sides of it, there's an a huge opportunity, like for me in my mind.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I keep saying I just need a weekend to book a hotel room, bring my laptop, bring the binder of my plans for the next year, and just do that advanced strategy work that I can't do.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just physically don't have the time to do or energy when I'm home.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: I am, like you said, getting mixed up in the admin tasks or not able to see that like big global view that you can with one attending a retreat, but also hosting one.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's hard to be able to see all the different pieces when you're in like the nitty-gritty of the day today, to just take time away and be in a different place with.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as we as much as we love our our children and our spouses and families, like sometimes you just need the space away to do those things.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, that's just reminding me of something I said to someone, or maybe I wrote it in a post or something the other day.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, I see two things.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: I see your service business, but I also see the woman behind the service business.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know, if you come to me saying, you know, I've got a marketing problem, or you know, it's very rarely the problem that you tell me that it is.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen I've worked with so many women and I've been there myself that I'm like, it's not a marketing problem.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: I guarantee you, it'll be one of a few options.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: One of them is that you're just not freaking feeling it anymore, and you know, it just feels completely unaligned to you.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there's a fear of visibility, maybe there's a fear of failure, maybe there's a fear of being seen trying, you know, all of these kind of things, and then you tell me it's a marketing problem, and then you invest in yet another sales course, or you splurge another grand on a marketing mentor power hour, and I just think we don't need more information a lot of the time.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have so much information, and everyone I speak to is like, yeah, I've been, you know, I was chatting with Church BT last night, I was chatting with Claude, and I'm like, Yeah, same, pal.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is what we do.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: We go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and we learn and learn and learn, or we start to feel like we're getting somewhere, we feel like we're making progress, but we're lacking the implementation and we're lacking the ability to see the bigger picture most of the time.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: And half of it, when you're working with women, it involves the woman and you know, AI and other people, especially online, can't see that.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: So if you feel it when you're with somebody, and my retreats aren't like in the woo-woo space at all.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I totally respect that, but that's not my style of retreat.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I still see you as the woman, and I see that F, Y, and Z isn't working for you because of this, and we look at all of these demands on you.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've helped people that are going through divorces, having babies, you know, putting their teenagers through high school and into university.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we have all of these different seasons in our life, and our business has to flex and has to adapt.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: And therefore, if you just create a strategy when you start and you don't spend time on a regular basis, and I don't mean like every month, that's far too short term.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean on a maybe an annual basis, reassessing and reviewing and tweaking, and maybe it's a big tweak, maybe it's a huge redirection.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: But unless you do that, you'll get somewhere like I was a couple years into business and think like this is not what I started out to do.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: What the hell do I do to change that?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we do on the business retreats.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be like in crisis, we just want to make sure that you don't get to that point, and you do that by going through this kind of process with me on retreat.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's wonderful to see the kind of transformations and the shoulders dropping and the kind of rest that you can see on these women's faces, and not all of them are mums at all by any means, but generally a lot of them feel like they've managed to finally get some peace for themselves, and that in itself, I'm sure you agree, is huge to actually get some space where you can hear your own thoughts again, and not just 10 minutes, not just oh, do some self-care and go sit outside with a coffee, but then your alarm goes off and you have to go do the school run.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like long-term removal, you know, for days on end, peace and quiet, and nobody needing you.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's a nervous system reset in itself before we've even done any business strategy.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, tell people what you have coming up, what's going on for retreats and your consultancy, tell us what's going on.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so on the business retreat side, if you're like, oh my god, I could do with five days in Spain.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: So the best thing to do is join the wait list because if there's like a current retreat on sale, you'll hear about it.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you are uh you know in a period of time where I'm planning the next one, you'll be on the wait list, so you'll be first to know.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the wait list, join that.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have some free resources that you can access as well that I send to people um sporadically on my mailing list as well, like capacity planners, workflow planners.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are thinking like, I'm overwhelmed as shit, like how do I get out of this?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: You need some data.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some tools and things that I send to people on a regular basis.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you are thinking of hosting a retreat or you have hosted a retreat and you're like, I did not make any money from this, but I know that I could.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just know that I need to do it properly, then come and book in for a retreat strategy call or a free clarity call.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll pop you can pop the link in there for that.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: I also have like a profit leak checklist, which is 15 places that you're leaking profit in your retreat as well.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some resources that you can access there.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of the time I just like talking to people and connecting.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's probably best to just jump on a call and see, you know, see how I can help you in some way, even if it's just pointing out what your next steps could be.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Come and have a chat with me.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: You can find me on socials as well, which is just at Kate underscore Kerjay.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: And my website is Olivier Consultancy.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm pretty discoverable these days after six years.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll put all of that in the show notes where people can find you and your offerings.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being on.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: This was so fun to chat, and I'm excited to see where your next retreat is landing people.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've just booked fun with an infinity pool and a hot tub, so it's looking absolutely sick in a minute.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds great.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love for you to follow the podcast wherever you listen and share it with another mom building something meaningful.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you want deeper behind the scenes reflections that I don't share anywhere else, join my email list at the Mama Making Podcast.com.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here, and I'll see you next time.