Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 349: Composing The Biggest Hollywood Blockbusters Of All-Time With Klaus Badelt

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BPS 349: Composing The Biggest Hollywood Blockbusters Of All-Time With Klaus Badelt · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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  You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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  podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
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  Episode number three forty nine. Plot is the most underestimated of all the
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  from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on
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  business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's
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  your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof
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  Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Now, today's
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  covermiscreenplay dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis. In this
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  episode of the podcast, I have a guest who has been a composer in
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  some of the biggest movies like Priors of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black
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  Pearl, Gladiator, Equilibrium, kanaeteen. My guests, I got to talk
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  about all that, about how you actually work with guys like con Zimmerman,
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  how you actually developed soundtracks for these movies. You know, how he actually
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  got into that because he actually was from a completely different background. And we
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  also going to talk about film Hub, which is another avenue for filmmakers.
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  Again, it's all about This podcast is about it's all exploring all these different
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  avenues, talking about where the film industry is headed, and just hearing all
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  these crazy stories about how we all got here and some of the crazy things
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  that we've seen on set without further ado with guests Klaus Adult. Yeah,
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  you know, it was a bit odd, Like I had my first like
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  tech startup at eighteen, and then assault that with twenty five and turned around
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  on hundred eighty degrees and did music and then I you know, mostly film
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  music, and then in Germany and then I went on I think in like
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  ninety seven, so I went on to Hollywood on vacation and got stuck here
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  ever since. So what kind of did you have that was already a tech
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  startup that was like you know, at the time when they didn't call it
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  startup, you had to actually make money and the profit and you know,
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  to to hire the next guy. And I'm writing softbad at the time.
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  I because part of that decision was that the German music universities didn't take me,
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  so I didn't manage to convince them with my entry exam performance. So
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  I I, you know, I'm just gonna do the easiest stuff to google.
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  Google that stuff. I know anyway, and that's the computer stuff.
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  And then only a few years later I then said they're not. Let's this
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  is good. You know, it was a very successful company and I don't
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  feel it. Let's do music. Yeah, you know, it's so true
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  with a lot of these startups, there's all about it's all about future earnings
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  or potential value. Have you ever seen the TV show Silicon Valley? Yeah,
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  of course, exactly. It's all true. Yeah, it's amazing.
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  I have friends you know who work out in Silicon Valley and they swear by
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  the showy they go. It is absolutely so true to life where you know,
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  somebody makes a peep, like you know, you and I make a
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  piece of software for a weekend in our in our our apartment or uh,
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  you know, dorm room, and suddenly, you know, we're selling it
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  on Monday for you know, a couple of million, couple you know,
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  maybe even more, and has it doesn't really have an audience or you know
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  what I mean, it doesn't. It's just it's just like this theory piece
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  of software that hasn't really proven in itself yet, but the potential value is
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  there. Yeah, I know, it's it's been creating and I spent I
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  mean, now we're going basically backwards here, but I spent the last year
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  on quite a bit in Silicon Valley and I learned how they do things there,
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  lots some of the techniques and it's great though, it's great how to
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  run a company. I learned so much, can believe. But compare this
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  to LA companies or European companies, how they operate. There's a very different,
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  different way of running things. And I mean it has to do with
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  why I'm doing this, this startup as well in the film business, to
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  bring in different you know, dimensions, given way of looking at it and
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  hoping to aiming at like really finding like a whole industry with us, because
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  our industry you're in, the film business doesn't really work that way, you
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  know, oriented with metrics, seeing that you know, you operate fast and
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  not out of your guts, but have data to back up what you actually
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  do. Uh. And that's actually very profession to me now as a as
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  a composer. Where you it's interesting, it's quite a bit similar even though
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  it sounds like it it would be just emotional when you're right and just intuitive,
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  and that's true. But at the same time, now I'm really getting
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  a carried away stop me anytime. But when you write a theme, that's
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  it for a movie. You are not a musician, your filmmaker, right
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  you you uh, you have the first five minutes or eight minutes if you're
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  lucky, to introduce the characters. You have to be very careful about the
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  arc telling the story. You you make people hopefully love the characters so they
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  actually go along with whatever crazy story happens after. And there's a lot of
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  if you want analytics about it, you have to you know, like a
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  script, they have the acts. You you shaping something and at the same
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  time you have to be very creative and emotional about it. So this is
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  a great balance. I've worked a lot with like songwriters, and when it
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  comes to scores, you can't tell the songwriter to adjust or you know,
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  you to react or to to to tell the story. That that tell the
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  story in just the absolute space and that the ends in a disaster anyway,
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  but that's a different stories. But you know, you end up being holding
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  the hand and actually making it work to picture. You're like the director of
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  music in a way. So that shows me every time that it's quite different
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  writing music to movies is quite different to writing music, and there's lots of
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  analytics comes into play. You know, what are some of the things you've
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  noticed just working from Germany to working in here. You always hear a lot
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  about, you know, how how we're you know, America is always compared
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  to Europe, both both in a good way and a bad way. So
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  I mean, what are some of your thoughts? I mean, have you
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  noticed that you do you like better working over here? I mean, because
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  you know, if you if you were to stereotype Americans working, it's usually
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  you never you never get a day off, you burn your your vacation days,
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  and you know, you never stop answering emails on your phone. I
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  mean that's pretty much me. So obviously I like it much better here now.
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  I mean, look, I've been here for twenty it's been twenty years,
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  and yeah, I think I can compare. And also traveled quite a
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  bit because of the movies. I went a lot to China, a lot
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  to Europe. Different European countries which are quite you know different anyway in the
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  UK is very different to brands, very different in Germany when it comes to
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  movies, but also to to like you know, companies and there, and
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  the attitude and people. I mean, there's the reason I'm I'm here and
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  I'm staying here and I live here is I do feel there's lots more.
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  I wouldn't call the cliche freedom, but it's much more open what you do.
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  Look, I would have not had a career if it wasn't you know,
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  I came here, I had no basicly education. And when it comes
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  to music, and you can do whatever you like if it was as long
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  as you make you know, make people feel comfortable and you do a good
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  job. And that's a pretty unique situation. I think in you know,
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  whether it's in in tech or in film or music, but especially in music
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  maybe and film where you you know, it's it's very hard to talk about
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  music right to judge music. You have your opinion. I have my opinion,
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  everyone has, but what does the audience. Everyone is different. So
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  there's no measurement, no picture you can see if it looks you know,
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  we can measure it. You can look at the frames, say look move
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  that visual effective it over to the left. But in music is really hard.
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  So you have to have that that trust. And I think people here
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  are much more generally open you can totally screw it up quickly and then that's
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  it. But you have much more of a chance, I think, to
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  do things. And yeah, oh I'm sorry, I'm just gonna agree.
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  You know. You know, as we as we talk about your music career,
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  So at what point did you realize that, hey, you know,
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  I want to start composing musical scores for for movies. And you've done some
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  video games too, So what point did you know that this is what you
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  wanted to do. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
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  and now back to the show. I always did more movie than music.
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  I mean I had my first I didn't have a keyboard first. I had
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  like, you know, a film camera first, and I shot some short
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  movies with the neighbor's son and mother, you know, something like that.
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  But so I was felt for movies, but I really never knew that I
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  wanted to do it. I I you know, like I said earlier,
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  I started something coverly different. I wanted to, but I was not.
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  Like I think the part of it was that I wasn't sure if I could
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  do it. And even when I arrived here and I I sit here in
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  front of you know, the picture and I looked at it and like,
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  wow, that's really hard. I mean, I've done this for years,
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  but every time it's really it's for me, it's really hard to create music.
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  And to me creative, it's really like a like a writer friend once
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  that it's like, you know, have to poor gasoline all over yourself and
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  burn it them and you feel the pain then you actually start really creating.
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  It's a bit like that for me, and I'm not alone, I think
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  with that. So yeah, the process is it's difficult and it's very awarding
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  when it works, but it takes a long time to get them. So
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  obviously I want to ask more about that because I think that that is a
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  really cool way to put it, when you start feeling that pain and that's
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  sort of the way you create. So if we were to sort of take
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  that and dig a little deeper, do you think that the whole like starving
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  artists, you know, create constant sort of pain. Do you think that
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  that if I noticed quite a few different types when I worked with directors and
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  also but also composers, that it's really hard to strive the perfect balance that
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  you're critical enough to create good stuff but question yourself to the level of pain
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  that you cannot actually but you in your way and your own way of creating
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  something good because you might see it. And I think it has to do
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  with experience, but also of course with character you can get rid of.
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  So it's this healthy balance where you don't be too full of yourself but also
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  be confident. I always say, it's like what you need is a lot
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  of character, but no ego, and that's very difficult, right, So
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  you have to bring in this profile and make it very unique, find the
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  unique voice when you create, but don't bring in your own own personality when
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  it comes to actually how to do the job. Because film is definitely a
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  teamwork and that's actually the essential multi media event. Right. You have sound,
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  you have picture, you have the actress, you have you know the
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  music. It all comes together. So it's been always the teamwork, which
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  which what I like about film. And I've never been the type who like
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  says like give me, give me the picture. It needs to be the
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  tape, right, give me the tape and don't talk to me for six
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  weeks, But always been I always had like various studios where I moved close
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  to where the director is. I had you know, I have places here
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  a mobile places when I'm had Warner Brothers, and I sit next to the
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  director if they're actually edit there or you know where or in in Beijing,
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  wherever I have to go, wherever the director is, I want to be
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  and right next to the editorial and and talk not about music, but like
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  just you know, absorb what they do. So you're part of that creative
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  team and you understand. I'm often on the set too, and you understand
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  where what it is the director actually wants to get out of it, how
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  he sees that arc of the senior emotional art, et cetera. So you're
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  part of that and you just have to express that in music and the editors
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  to expressed this with you know, with the edit. But it's the same
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  word. So when you're on some of these movie sets and you know,
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  you're you're you're getting that feeling and you're not really thinking about the music.
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  You're more ingrained in what everything's sort of like the minute, you're ingrained in
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  the process of you know of how it's getting done and everything. Do you
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  when you do go back to to to to start composing the music for this,
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  like let's use pirates of the Caribbean, for instance, when you start
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  going back and creating that music, I mean, you're just drawling from all
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  that experience of being on set of you know, maybe talking with the director
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  of of you know, of what exactly the not only just what the scene
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  is about or or you know, or the sequence is about, but just
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  about the whole sort of underlining current of the whole movie. Yeah. Actually,
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  absolutely yes, I couldn't agree more. I mean, maybe parts wasn't
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  it the best example because I had virtually no time to create it, But
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  you know what, it was a good example in that way because you have
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  to then trust your instincts and improvise, and then it comes to your what
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  you what you do without thinking. But ultimately it's a lot you write,
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  it's a lot of yeah, if you want experience to look, I have
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  a lot of young writers who virtually want to prove themselves and they think they
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  have to, and that's true, you have to. But you know,
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  then you hear these scores which all sound like a pot poury of stuff because
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  they want to show off. They don't really actively or consciously do this,
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  but it happens like that. And and when you make music for film,
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  you're you're subordinate to the whole multimedia event, to the whole story. You
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  don't you don't want to not dominate. I mean there's strong music you have
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  to write often, so yeah, you have to just be be careful in
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  the in the give and take. So so class, let me ask you
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  this when when you're you know, online, and maybe you're you know,
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  just looking around at you know, different websites and stuff. Have you ever
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  come across some of the like the stock music websites. Oh yeah, yeah,
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  sure of course. So what are your thoughts on that. It's look,
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  I don't even do demos like you know, in this industry you have
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  this like where directors ask like a handful composed for demos. And it's not
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  that I'm like, I don't know, arrogant enough to say, like a,
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  I don't do demos. It's it's about I don't believe in that process
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  because it's no process. It's a shot in the dark and something sticks and
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  then you don't know anything about the director composer relationship, how it could develop,
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  or if the composer understands your movie at the director, and so these
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  sites are yeah, of course, if you I'm I'm a writer. I
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  always need a picture to work against. I need to be the yeah,
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  the filmmaker. I admire that if you can right like, yeah, imagine
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  this kind of pig and here I go. I really I don't think I
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  ever done that, So it must be a very hard job actually to do
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  that. And as a director, of course, you you want that work
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  relationship more than you want the music. The best directors I had I like
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  to work with, the best ways of working together was always a director where
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  you where you do not want to show off, where you don't need to.
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  You don't talk about music, you don't talk about what instrument you would
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  like or that's actually the second it's not secondary, but that's the output.
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  You talk about the input. You're talking about what it is symbolically, what
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  it is, what's supposed to happen here, what's the emotional content, what
• 17:55
  what's that scene for, what's the moment for? How do they feel?
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  And how do you want the audience to deal? And by the way,
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  when you write music, then you often as a director also noticed this suddenly
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  get into like the the weaknesses of the movie by putting music on it or
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  writing two picture, you suddenly realize issues in editing and issues and we're not
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  clear about that moment here. What do you actually want to say? So
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  music kind of crystallizes that gets takes it outside. And that's music as as
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  a filmmaker, right, as a character, as a as a part of
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  the movie, not music put in a slap on top, which sometimes works
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  too, but it's not. It's not the same. Yeah, like the
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  music as a as a character of of itself. You know, it's like
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  the soundtrack of a life, because you know, when you're watching a movie,
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  it's the most interesting point of that that character's life, you know,
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  and it's like this is the soundtrack of your life, you know what I
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  mean? So so so class, let me ask you this when you're one,
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  what movie have you seen recently? Well you have just been like sort
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  of blown away by the soundtrack. I have to admit, I am.
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  I'm the guy with the smallest score collection, right I have. My inspiration
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  doesn't really come from move film music. And that's for several reasons. A.
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  When you actually work, you inadvertually rip off and you don't want that
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  sound in your head. You don't even know where it comes from. I
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  mean, I ripped myself off of project I did three years ago and realized
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  much later, like, oh my god, that's the same theme. I
• 19:33
  can't believe I wrote this again, and literally it happened and nobody told me
• 19:37
  and nobody noticed obviously. But I I get my inspiration from very different kinds
• 19:45
  of music. So I'm the roman to ask if you inspired by that kind
• 19:49
  of weak and if it all is movies, it would be hard for me
• 19:52
  to point out to We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:02
  and now back to the show is but is where non traditional composers right?
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  You know? We have too many guys who want to sound like I don't
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  know, Jerry Goldsmith or you know, it's like this this ideal which is
• 20:18
  over and you need to develop new things and still serve the film. And
• 20:25
  you get this when when I listened to a Brian Enoscore that to me,
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  well, not all of them, but there's some which we're like, oh
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  this is interesting. I would have not done it like this, and it
• 20:34
  probably will never be able to do it like that, but that gives you
• 20:37
  inspiration. I have lots of playlists of songs though, and classical music and
• 20:42
  electronic music where I keep as an inspiration, like to rolling in my in
• 20:48
  my head and in the background often just to where I get something from.
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  So, Sony, when you actually ripped off your own score, was it
• 20:57
  after after the movie had come out? You're like, oh my god,
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  did I write have did I already write about I write that? It was
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  years after I was a TV show, actually, and I ripped myself off
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  and I had no idea, and nobody at the time told me. And
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  I mean it wasn't like that bad, but I it was the same tune
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  and it felt great at the time. Twice, I mean for me,
• 21:18
  like like, oh I did it. Look at it? That sounds great.
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  Oh my gosh, I really this is good. It works and I
• 21:23
  had done this before and it's big. I don't know, it happens,
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  and I don't. You don't want to That's the last thing you want.
• 21:30
  And the last thing I want is to sound like something I did before.
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  The last thing I want to sound is like someone else who did something before
• 21:37
  or some But it's really hard sometimes, Yeah, it is, you know,
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  so I'm speaking of you know, just of your process and everything like
• 21:48
  that. You know, what what is the you know, the absolute best
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  experience that you've had making a score to a film, and it's so many.
• 21:57
  I mean, there's very few like but I think often is the indie
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  films, which are more you have an opportunity to do, you have more
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  integrity. It's easier to have integrity in terms of the collaboration, and and
• 22:14
  there's less opinions out there in Hollywood. There's a lot of different opinions,
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  and it's great to work like that, but it's easy then to like,
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  I don't know, take the edge off everywhere, and then at the end
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  you sound end up with something mediocre because nobody dares. It's it's dangerous,
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  right. So I had some films like I remember, I remember when like
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  life changing was like when I did my first film in China where the director
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  Shan Kaige, did you know, let me let me write a little bit,
• 22:48
  put me up on a hotel in a lake to enjoy and write,
• 22:53
  and I thought I came up with something okay, and he listened to it
• 22:56
  and noted and said, okay, let me make some phone calls. I
• 23:00
  think I'm gonna, if you don't mind, sent you around the country for
• 23:04
  the next few weeks, and you just absorb whatever we be, show you
• 23:10
  so you get a much deeper feel for where we are with all this.
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  I'm going, Yeah, basically like a four thousand year history lesson compressed in
• 23:19
  a few weeks of sightseeing. And and that was part of this whole process
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  there. And I think if I look back, I can hear that the
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  I was most inspired. And it took me five months there. And I
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  remember when I came back here to Hollywood, people asked me, so,
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  why heard you move to China. I'm like, no, I just wrote
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  a movie, but I'm a movie But I I that was like life changing
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  event where you just want to be as good as the director, and you
• 23:45
  know never be you know, achieved that, but you want to contribute.
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  And there's a deep, yeah, just deep inspiration. That was also a
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  project where we never talked about the Meia. I visited him a few times
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  so travel China. We met for a week or two, and I don't
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  think a single time we even looked at the film. The first few times
• 24:07
  we discussed his life and his his symbolism in every shot and every in every
• 24:14
  not shot, but in every scene, what he envisioned for this and and
• 24:18
  you just learned and we talked politics, and you talked all kinds of things,
• 24:22
  and then you're prepared to give I think that makes a good director,
• 24:27
  right to who is just interested in getting the best out of your creation instead
• 24:33
  of trying to squeeze you into a certain track. So so, what what
• 24:38
  did that with that? After you went on this you know, this sort
• 24:41
  of history lesson, this four thousand year history lesson in a in a week
• 24:47
  or two, you know, did when you got out, you know,
• 24:49
  and they finally got back and they actually composed this piece. What was the
• 24:55
  outcome after that? I mean, what did you? Was it a success?
• 24:59
  Yeah? I was big movie there was called The Promise in China was
• 25:03
  one of the very first. You know, I was ten years ago,
• 25:04
  so it was one of the very first, like big effects movies. And
• 25:10
  the biggest compliment, I mean you can hear in the themes. I had
• 25:14
  so many inspired themes in there, and they all did something for the movie
• 25:18
  at the right time. And the biggest compliment was like, look, I
• 25:26
  mean I was this German guy or European guy who lives in Hollywood and does
• 25:30
  a Chinese movie, So what do you expect me? Ask him? At
• 25:33
  the time. So I'm not the guy who writes you a Chinese movie.
• 25:37
  It was all in Chinese, of course, right, And he's like,
• 25:40
  no, no, and he wants people to with the music to open up
• 25:45
  the film and the understanding about the film to a greater audience, to a
• 25:48
  bigger audience, And that's exactly okay. Well, so I absorbed a lot
• 25:52
  of these Chinese instruments and history and stories and dances I had like I was
• 25:57
  at then in museum and a mountains, you know, they performed dances to
• 26:02
  me, and I listened to ancient songs on all these different minorities and absorbed
• 26:10
  all this and put this in, but not to like rip it off,
• 26:12
  not to you know, use this as a superficial color and impose myself on
• 26:17
  it, but to really like, you know, work it in and have
• 26:22
  flavors of this in there. And there was some European flavors in there,
• 26:25
  and of course Western flavors in there. So that was so satisfying for me
• 26:30
  as a process. And you can, you know, you can hear this
• 26:33
  in the inspiration. It's that there is something new created, you know.
• 26:37
  When I heard some people told me that this is one of their favorite scores,
• 26:42
  and not and they didn't know the story. So you can you can
• 26:45
  always hear how inspired you are. You mentioned about the indie films, and
• 26:52
  you know, earlier on I mentioned Pirates of the Caribbean. You know,
• 26:55
  I imagine just for the sheer thrill of it, because Parts of the Bean,
• 27:00
  no matter when it would come out, is going to be one of
• 27:02
  the biggest films of the year, you know, you know, from the
• 27:04
  first one to the fifth one. I think that came out a year or
• 27:07
  two ago. You know, it's just the fact that it's the you know,
• 27:11
  it's a huge, huge movie. It's got Johnny deppt you know,
• 27:17
  it's got you know, a name, director gr Gore Vibrinsky. But if
• 27:22
  I could actually talk, and you know, and and and so, I
• 27:26
  mean I imagine you know when that when that comes out. I mean,
• 27:29
  I mean, can I can imagine Claus where you could say, hey,
• 27:30
  listen, you know you see uh telling anybody friend's family, whoever, Hey,
• 27:34
  you know, Pirates of the Caribbean that's coming out. You know,
• 27:37
  I did music for that movie, because everybody instantly knows, oh my god,
• 27:41
  that's movie with Johnny Depp, right of course, I mean, it's
• 27:44
  always great to have something where you know your you know your family asked me,
• 27:48
  so, what are you doing next time? Do you talk about the
• 27:49
  movie? And they're like, oh, I've never heard of it. But
• 27:52
  and then there's one, you know, there's the occasional film we're like,
• 27:56
  oh, yeah, listen, everybody's in mind and theater and certainly one of
• 28:00
  the music pieces which more known. But I don't know, look at me.
• 28:07
  I mean, I'm proud of it, of course about talking this down.
• 28:10
  But I did so many different things, and I always like to it's
• 28:17
  so easy to fall to this Hollywood trap to like what you do too much.
• 28:23
  And career was never an option to me to be in the center of
• 28:30
  my own attention. I just did one thing after another, and honestly I
• 28:34
  never really thought about like like moving here. You know, I was one
• 28:37
  thing. I never really thought about it. I was on vacation, like
• 28:38
  I said, and oh maybe I can do this. Of course I loved
• 28:41
  it and I had a passion for it, but I didn't never expected it
• 28:45
  to happen. I never expected it. And the same thing with you and
• 28:48
  right so I right after Pirates, for example, I didn't ah And the
• 28:52
  last thing I would want to do is to do two, three, four,
• 28:55
  five seventeen, make it a TV show. But instead I remember at
• 28:57
  the time where I used the opportunity then to do a movie with Dick Donner,
• 29:03
  and do a movie with Wolfgang Peterson, to do a movie with Shanekai
• 29:06
  get all. You know what I just said, like went to China five
• 29:10
  months. My agent was like, you know, putting his hair out.
• 29:12
  It's like, what are you doing? This is like the moment to put
• 29:15
  you can your career like a you know, It's not that I'm not interested,
• 29:18
  but that is exactly what I'm doing right now. Because of this,
• 29:22
  it enables me to do really interesting stuff. I've didn't done a lot of
• 29:26
  French movies nobody cares for here in America. They don't travel, but just
• 29:30
  so amazingly satisfying that someone will hear the work ultimately, And then you get
• 29:36
  another job based on something you did which nobody would have given you. You
• 29:40
  know what I did suddenly comedy in New York. Wow, nobody would have
• 29:44
  hired me for a New York style comedy because I did pilots of agreement.
• 29:49
  But they did that because they heard I don't know pidin Dekoline in Paris when
• 29:53
  they went on vacation, or you know, I had a meeting and like,
• 29:56
  who is this and what this is? German guy, amazing, let's
• 29:59
  do that. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and
• 30:07
  now back to the show. So this is I think if you constantly do
• 30:11
  good work and try to not really, if you always reinvent yourself and try
• 30:17
  not to repeat too much, because everybody wants that, Like you know,
• 30:21
  they play, they put your music in the temp and say I want exactly
• 30:25
  this, don't change a note, this works great? Can you do this
• 30:26
  again? That's how often you get an assignment here is that you are in
• 30:33
  the temp. And sorry, but the last thing I would want to do
• 30:37
  is if I was a director, would ask the composer right to exactly him.
• 30:40
  Think again, that's like so not inspiring for anyone. And you probably
• 30:45
  can hear this, and you can hear sorry, but you can hear composer
• 30:47
  wont mentioned names of films definitely where you you're like, well, I know
• 30:52
  exactly what happened in the in the cutting room, how they ask the composer
• 30:56
  what to do, and you can hear it. And that's what I'm interested
• 31:00
  in, you know what. I found that in Claus. I found that
• 31:07
  in the little Star Wars films. You know, I I like Star Wars.
• 31:11
  I like the idea behind it. I mean I come from it from
• 31:15
  more of a writing perspective, because if if you ask me what I what
• 31:18
  I am out of everything, you know, don't be you know if that's
• 31:22
  why whenever someone says they're a jack of all trades, Claus I kind of
• 31:25
  go, well, everyone has to specialize in something. Everybody. You can
• 31:27
  have knowledge of everything, but everybody, at the end of the day,
• 31:30
  everyone specializes in something that that that brought because that's what brought you to the
• 31:33
  dance. You know, you have you know, there's one thing that you
• 31:37
  do well. So for me, it's writing. And when I'm watching these
• 31:41
  Star Wars, the new ones, you know, and I'm sitting there,
• 31:45
  I just go, I just feel like everything is exactly the same. It's
• 31:48
  the same beats, it's the same shots, it's the same music. It's
• 31:52
  it's totally so it's gotten so silver repetitive. Yeah, I mean this is
• 31:59
  what now we're getting into what I think is a bit of a problem of
• 32:02
  Hollywood and a serious problem of Hollywood the last few years, especially that we
• 32:08
  are not afraid to tell a story. But yeah, in a way,
• 32:13
  like it's risky now to tell new stories, it has to be a franchise.
• 32:20
  And then you do that. And as long as there's a lot of
• 32:22
  people paying tickets for that, how can that be wrong? Right? And
• 32:30
  it's okay, and we have to all keep the lights on and keep the
• 32:35
  industry going. It's just not so much what I'm you know, I did
• 32:40
  do I was about to say I never did sequels. I did do seaquels,
• 32:44
  I have to admit. But when it was I made sure that if
• 32:50
  possible, this was like, okay, there's a franchise by the new director,
• 32:54
  a new like a restart of something like in a fresh angle as something
• 33:00
  like when I did my first horror film, I told the director I don't
• 33:06
  like horror. I wish I'm not a big horror fan. Sorry, but
• 33:10
  so why are you asking me? And then we started talking and it turns
• 33:15
  out he neither. So we want to do something, you know, a
• 33:17
  genre, but something different. And there was that case was well it wasn't
• 33:24
  really horror him but constantine. It was a lot of like dark, dark
• 33:29
  stuff in there, and it ended up with almost like a French impressionist film
• 33:34
  score. You know, then I think that's interesting stuff happens, and we're
• 33:40
  a bit we've become a bit afraid of of doing this year. And that's
• 33:45
  why indie film can often be you know, this way, you try out
• 33:49
  things and then they become mainstream. I personally think that India is the new
• 33:53
  mainstream anyway. Look the last few years, last ten years, it's been
• 33:58
  always indie films winning or being nominated for for all kinds of awards. But
• 34:07
  and there's always that commercial blockbuster thinking where you'll have to do another sequel of
• 34:14
  another pickle, of another TV show. I I don't know. I'm just
• 34:19
  coming off a film which had like it's the fourth installment. But but there
• 34:23
  was a new idea again in there. It's called the I think I can
• 34:29
  talk about it so in the making is called the Ocean. Ocean's eight.
• 34:31
  You know, it's the Ocean's eleven idea, only a very different cast and
• 34:36
  a very different fresh idea. It's it's an all female cast. It's fantastic,
• 34:39
  very funny, and and it's like smart, right, so that that
• 34:43
  I can live with and it's so it's a good mix of being okay,
• 34:45
  it's commercially very viable, but at the same time, there's a lot of
• 34:50
  new and fresh ideas and the in and there's a twist in it, and
• 34:53
  you can talk about tell the twist and work on the twist. Yeah.
• 34:59
  I I actually have heard of Ocean's eight, you know, the all female
• 35:02
  you know, based upon the George Clooney movie Ocean Is eleven, but instead
• 35:06
  of being all males, all females, and so I mean, when you
• 35:12
  you know, do something like that, you know, and you're sort of
• 35:15
  brought onto this franchise, is there any expectations at all? I mean,
• 35:17
  because real I mean what I mean by that is they are they saying like,
• 35:22
  hey, listen, Klaus, you know, if you listen to Oceans
• 35:23
  eleven, twelve or what have you, this is what they did here,
• 35:28
  and we want something kind of similar, and you know, is there anything
• 35:31
  like that? Yes? And no, Look, I mean they would have.
• 35:36
  They could have easily asked the old composer to do that if they want
• 35:39
  that same thing again. But there's a reason they didn't. But there's also
• 35:45
  the expectations of the audience that you remember when working on MINDI vice, right,
• 35:50
  the audience has a certain expectations, expectation, and you, as a
• 35:53
  director or as a composer too, you have to not they cannot ignore the
• 35:58
  audience. You should never do that. You play with that, I know,
• 36:02
  And Mami advice was very hard because the movie was very dark and very
• 36:06
  different than what you know, the TV show was thirty or twenty years before
• 36:08
  that. But and here too, it's slightly different, but it plays with
• 36:14
  it. And to me, that's fun. That that's okay, that's smart,
• 36:17
  that's that's fulfilling the expectation and hopefully adding the twist to it so it's
• 36:24
  interesting and fresh. Again that that's fun. That's not like okay, of
• 36:29
  to do I don't know, Pirates of the Caribbean times seventeen and the one
• 36:34
  exactly the same thing. You know, I actually really enjoy the Oceans movie,
• 36:40
  so I mean, I'll check out Oceans eight. But you know,
• 36:44
  it's kind of like again, you know, I was saying, I totally
• 36:46
  get what you're saying about the indie films. It's kind of like you know,
• 36:49
  writing, you know, it's like it's it's like composing itself. You
• 36:52
  know, we we're on an indie film, you can you have a lot
• 36:54
  more freedom as well, you know, but when you're on a big blockbuster,
• 36:58
  you know, you know your your freedo. It was kind of constricted.
• 37:00
  But when you again, when you're telling you people about it, you're
• 37:04
  like, well, hey, listen, I just did music for et cetera.
• 37:06
  They're like, oh wow, I actually you know what I mean,
• 37:07
  Like, holy crap, Johnny Depp. I sorry, I keep going back
• 37:10
  to Johnny Depp, but he's he's a very good example, you know what
• 37:13
  I mean. If you have to say, you know you have that obsession
• 37:15
  with Johnny Depp, I like that. No, but I know what you
• 37:19
  mean. Yeah, I know. It's it's just exactly like it's so tempting.
• 37:22
  But again, I mean, I remember this when my mom asked me,
• 37:23
  so, I just came out of the meeting with Steven Spearwork and and
• 37:28
  he kind of ripped half of the score apart on Gladiator, and we were
• 37:30
  like, gosh, this was one of the hardest days my life at the
• 37:34
  time, and and I tried to tell a little bit like what mommy just
• 37:37
  did this, and she's like, okay, what do we eat enough?
• 37:40
  So you know, it grounds you she didn't care, and you you get
• 37:45
  back to like, okay, you know what you need to bypass all this
• 37:49
  this hype about yourself and about others and and just get to work. So
• 37:52
  I'm not really impressed ultimately when it comes to celebrities. It's only I'm impressed
• 37:58
  when you know, again again it sounds like when they actually deliver, and
• 38:01
  when you work with them and you realize and understand why they are who they
• 38:07
  are, then it gets very very interesting. There's some directors I had here.
• 38:12
  I mean, you work with Tom Cruiser, so then it's you you
• 38:15
  understand, you know where that where the success comes from if you have have
• 38:20
  a chance to work with that. But again in Indy, it's it's as
• 38:27
  refreshing and as as taxing to your creativity. And again you can you have
• 38:36
  more freedom to get out of you know, do out of the box thinking.
• 38:40
  And you can see now that the audience is really tired of the same
• 38:46
  game of Thrones and Batman's and stuff. Right they yeah, they'll see it,
• 38:51
  they'll watch it. But you know, you know, lately did a
• 38:53
  lot of gathered a lot of data about this too. Not only they have
• 38:57
  felt it, but there is a lot of data that people are one more
• 39:01
  variety. Now that you have the Internet, you watch much more and you
• 39:07
  have theoretically access to much more. You don't have these gatekeepers because of shelf
• 39:13
  space. Right before, you could go to Blockbuster only and that limited shelf
• 39:16
  space, so they couldn't put up everything, or the theaters could only take
• 39:22
  on one movie night or something. Right, But now you have all this
• 39:28
  plus the unlimited resources of the Internet, so you should be able to watch
• 39:34
  much more. And the more and more people want that, they expect like
• 39:38
  everything to be available. And that's a big chance of indie. I think
• 39:43
  that you have now the chance of being successful without being broadcast style popular.
• 39:53
  We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to
• 40:00
  the show. That means you don't have to have the millions of millions of
• 40:07
  viewers or tickets sold or something without that new movie is a flop. They
• 40:13
  worked on many flops. I know exactly how hard that pressure is, right
• 40:16
  I am, and and how limiting it can be. But now you can
• 40:22
  create something and you make this for maybe a smaller segment of an audience or
• 40:27
  have more integrity. It's a little bit like music like you used to.
• 40:31
  You have to you had to go to a recording studio. You had to
• 40:35
  use that two inch machine, that tape machine, and it was all very
• 40:38
  expensive. You had to pay the thousands of dollars per day, so you
• 40:43
  had to have all this machine would pay for this. And you know,
• 40:46
  the industry or these days are like for a few years. Now you can
• 40:52
  actually write. You know, I've heard the best productions coming from your laptop
• 40:55
  with some pro tools or what not on it, and and it's really great
• 41:00
  stuff. You don't need at all. It sounds amazing too. Just need
• 41:04
  talent, good ideas. And we have this now in movies too, right,
• 41:07
  that's the big chance of indie. We have now. Digital production pipelines
• 41:12
  make it very very cheap for you to produce now, I don't know,
• 41:16
  including visual effects on your laptop at Starbucks, which rival those we do here
• 41:22
  in in those visual effect studios, but not only visual e facts. You
• 41:30
  know, that's just an example of everything you just you know, you still
• 41:32
  need, just like in music, a good idea, tasteful implementation, et
• 41:39
  cetera. That's still the same, but you have now a great opportunity that
• 41:44
  you can move now a lot of things yourself, and that there's a demand
• 41:49
  on the other side of people who want to watch more different things want to
• 41:54
  watch and give give the attention to your indie film. Why just before they
• 42:01
  didn't didn't even have access to it because it wasn't there wasn't available, and
• 42:06
  now he can't make it available world there. Yeah, you know you mentioned
• 42:12
  Tom Cruise by the way, uh to Klaus. You know, I once
• 42:15
  met I forget what he what he actually is, the Tom, but he
• 42:21
  just said that the he before you even met Tom, he goes here.
• 42:23
  He always wondered what he was going to be like, and then he said,
• 42:25
  once I met him, I knew why he was successful. And he
• 42:30
  goes. He he wakes up every day at four or five in the morning.
• 42:34
  He gets up and he just starts going and he goes. He never
• 42:37
  complains about having to be on set or doing another take. He never complains
• 42:42
  about having to do extra work. He goes. All the guy does is
• 42:45
  he he goes. You know, he's professionalist, can be uh and he
• 42:49
  goes. He goes. I've never seen him h with a with a bad
• 42:52
  attitude whatsoever. And he goes. You know, he gets a lot of
• 42:55
  crap in the media for for different things he goes, but but you know
• 42:59
  all that as he goes. The guy just is a really hard worker.
• 43:02
  Yeah, and the tabloid news that's one thing. But as a hard worker
• 43:06
  exactly. I mean, he was actually fantastic to work with. He was
• 43:09
  probably the only he wasn't even the director on the film. I work with
• 43:14
  them, but you know, you only like producer who you know, he
• 43:17
  had no problems seriously going out at night to the deli and get everyone who
• 43:22
  was still working because he had to work all night for the last few nights
• 43:27
  to get us some food. So he had Tom cruise looking for show taking
• 43:31
  an order for Jerry's deli. So that's true. And that's not like you
• 43:37
  want to be a nice guy. He's just like, yeah, let's do
• 43:39
  it, you know, keep keep working. And I really appreciate that.
• 43:43
  And then we can see how how this leads to uh success, and well,
• 43:47
  of course how it can lead to controversy. But he's a very visible
• 43:52
  man, so in the in the in the news and everywhere. So but
• 43:55
  again I focus always, like I said, I'd like to focus on actually
• 43:59
  working with his guys. Then that's when they they gain my respect. And
• 44:05
  then do you realize, oh yeah, okay, I don't know why,
• 44:07
  yeah yeah, and uh see again stories like that about Tom you know,
• 44:12
  uh just you know, insanely hard worker and just likes what he does.
• 44:15
  And uh you know that's why when when his movies come out, you know,
• 44:20
  I'm always interested to see how how well they do again with the whole
• 44:23
  balance and the tabloid side of things, and you know what I mean.
• 44:27
  I I you know, I saw the Mummy and I can definitely see what
• 44:32
  they were trying to do with it. You know. I just think that
• 44:36
  the Mummy as itself, the premise itself works at its best when Brendan Fraser
• 44:40
  had the cad the exactly because Brendon Fraser is just he's just that he looks
• 44:46
  like a leading man, but he also can act like a goofball, you
• 44:52
  know what I mean, And it's that funny and he and you know what
• 44:53
  I mean, and its just it works so well. I think the Mummy
• 44:57
  with Tom Cruise just took itself too seriously. And I I think a lot
• 45:00
  of audiences now, you know, you know, with all the options,
• 45:04
  you know, with all the options of TV and YouTube and everything, else
• 45:07
  and and and also we're still going to the theater. I don't know if
• 45:14
  if it found it I actually I know it didn't find itself. You know,
• 45:16
  some of the some of the horror and it was was was fantastic.
• 45:20
  But I just think at the end of the day, you know, it's
• 45:23
  a lot of pressure to put on a movie to set up an entire universe.
• 45:28
  So you know, essentially it has because you know what you know,
• 45:30
  it has to do so many things well and at the same time, it
• 45:34
  has to be a movie by itself. So you know, you know,
• 45:37
  it's just it's a lot to do. And I think it got pulled in
• 45:38
  too many directions. Uh. That happens a lot. And again it's hard
• 45:44
  to because we seem to only be able to do franchises and re reh remanufacturer
• 45:51
  effecture them. Right now, all of that that's the big thing to do.
• 45:55
  Yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. Like the perfect anti hero
• 46:00
  role, you know was s Frien Frasier and and you know reminds me of
• 46:04
  I don't know, Harrison Ford, you know, you know Indiana Jones,
• 46:07
  Like he's like you want that character was like you know, you say goofy,
• 46:12
  but he's more like he can't do he can't do it actually, but
• 46:15
  he doesn't want to. That's that's not the character, you know, you
• 46:20
  yeah, it comes in. Tom is always Tom Cruise, right and this
• 46:23
  you know, no matter, he's good. He's a great actor actually,
• 46:25
  but he really I really admire it skills, no questions, no matter what
• 46:31
  how thin the movie exact is. But he's really great. But he's always
• 46:36
  giving himself into it. So do you expect that with them? It's it's
• 46:40
  hard to play against your own character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
• 46:45
  true. And he's doing what he likes and doing what he loves. And
• 46:49
  here's all the certain stantce too, you know. And I know Class we
• 46:52
  talk about distribution. I want to talk about film. How I know we're
• 46:54
  starting to run out of time, see how you know? Class is kind
• 46:58
  of like a movie. It's like, how how crap? How do we
• 47:00
  get all this in here? We've got too much to cover? We we
• 47:02
  we don't have enough time. No, don't worry or but no, this
• 47:06
  is not not supposed to I I I like to talk about creativity and I
• 47:12
  like to talk about the force and the and the awakening. Now indie should
• 47:17
  have and I want to bring because I believe in it myself and I've done
• 47:21
  it a lot and with indie film, and I believe that there's now this
• 47:24
  big change and distribution or whatever the the the over solution is that we have
• 47:30
  now as indie filmmakers a new confidence. We should have it, and who
• 47:38
  doesn't have it yet should learn about it because it is now possible. All
• 47:44
  I'm doing all the time now is with other music in films to support this
• 47:47
  and with film now I'm doing this to support it on a much larger scale,
• 47:52
  hopefully that you can now check this off as a commodity. You can
• 47:57
  now you know, you can now do films cheaper with your cameras. You
• 48:00
  can now do visual effects cheaper or on your own. You can now check
• 48:06
  that off and check off distribution. You can now be in every living room
• 48:09
  in the world. And you have to think of the world and not just
• 48:13
  your own country or you know, we have to stop with thinking in domestic
• 48:15
  and foreign terms. We have to stop with territorial limitations. We have to
• 48:24
  stop thinking windowing. This is all what the audience doesn't want, This is
• 48:29
  all what the industry wants to make a bit more money, you know,
• 48:36
  to exhorted even more, to milk the cow more. But just like in
• 48:39
  music, we've seen music is like a few years ahead of us in film,
• 48:44
  you can see how things happen there because also the difference to me is
• 48:47
  only like bandwidth, right, music is just less bandwidth needed. But you
• 48:51
  can see the same flow and you can learn from that. You can see
• 48:54
  how unimportant a big industry can render itself. And then they come back to
• 49:00
  like what's the actual value. Hollywood does does have a big value, but
• 49:04
  indie film has a much larger value than we have given us so far.
• 49:07
  And to strength and strengthen that in this case with the distribution platform where you
• 49:15
  you know, don't have to pay anything and just be there and let it
• 49:19
  check it off and keep creating. And we have much more, much more
• 49:22
  to do there. It's still even though we have the Internet and everybody can
• 49:29
  now watch and you know, whatever they want, whenever they want it and
• 49:34
  wherever they want it, that doesn't mean you make movies by the way for
• 49:37
  cell phones right like this is has been talked about for the last ten years,
• 49:42
  but that's not the case. You just have much more freedom as the
• 49:45
  audience now to watch what you like. It's harder to find what you like
• 49:50
  because there's so much more now. But we have to now put all these
• 49:54
  tools into place, all these digital tools into place. We'll be right back
• 50:00
  after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show and leverage them.
• 50:08
  As filmmakers, you've got to move on and and and embrace this too.
• 50:15
  We have to stop being that dinosaur ourselves. And that's a lot more
• 50:20
  to talk about right when it comes to but in general, it means like
• 50:24
  this is a great opportunity. This is the digital opportunity now to create actually
• 50:30
  very beautiful and meaningful film. Again, more than if I may say so,
• 50:36
  Hollywood is dares to produce at this point. Yeah, and that's why
• 50:44
  you know stuff like film Hub and and I was reading your website so you
• 50:47
  know, I've had other people on here like Jason Brubaker from The Striver.
• 50:52
  You know, things like that where you know people are you know, companies
• 50:57
  like yourself there. You know, it's a way to get on AM,
• 51:00
  it's a way to go on Hulu. You know, so people can because
• 51:02
  those are where the eyeballs are, right, you know, especially with Amazon
• 51:07
  and especially with Amazon the way it's becoming. They're trying to get more into
• 51:09
  the video market. You know, Hulu is Hulu, you know, and
• 51:14
  all these different channels. You know, how do you stand out? How
• 51:17
  do you get your film on there? Because I mean, you know,
• 51:19
  even a couple of years ago, I remember, you know, just talking
• 51:22
  to people and I would say, how the hell do you even get a
• 51:24
  film on here? You know, how do you get a film on any
• 51:27
  of these platforms? You know, do you have to get an a sales
• 51:30
  agent to pitch to them? And you know a few years ago maybe it
• 51:34
  did, you know what I mean, And actually you did have to you
• 51:37
  know, they had to have the contact, they had to go through this,
• 51:38
  and then you had to have deliverables the right way, and you know,
• 51:44
  I mean seriously, and you know Netflix has their own way of delivering
• 51:46
  films, you know, and it's just you know, do you have all
• 51:49
  that? Even deliverables? A few years ago before that, Claus, you
• 51:52
  know, you had to have do you have a thirty five millimeter print?
• 51:55
  Do you have this? Do you have that? And you're like, well,
• 51:58
  for indie filmmakers, you know, that's that's you know, what what
• 52:00
  how much did it did. Prince used to cost cost like fifty thousand dollars
• 52:05
  I think, or something like that, or maybe a lot more so,
• 52:07
  right exactly, So yeah, yeah, seriously, it's you know, and
• 52:12
  so so that's why I wanted to have you on Klaus to talk about film
• 52:15
  Hub and and just all this stuff. I know we can't we're running out
• 52:19
  of time, but you know, just just in closing, Claus, you
• 52:22
  know, is there any sort of parting thoughts that you wanted to say to
• 52:24
  sort of put a period at the end of this whole conversation. Well,
• 52:28
  again, like I think it's about. To me, it's about and I
• 52:30
  love coming on the show like this is to talk about the strength of indie
• 52:36
  and that we have to develop now really quick our own confidence. More than
• 52:43
  you know, we think that often. Still I was at Sundance again and
• 52:46
  everywhere I go in these bests, we still think too much of what we
• 52:52
  want to achieve is to beat the old system to get your film being picked
• 52:57
  up in terms of uh, like like a recording artists in music that also
• 53:02
  already means the kiss of death. You have to develop it on your own
• 53:07
  and be your own, have an ownership model. We have to change the
• 53:09
  model and then the creativity can actually continue. And so what we're building here
• 53:15
  with this filma, for example, what I'm doing with my movie thing and
• 53:17
  to support like Chinese movies, is like there is such a variety out there,
• 53:21
  and we just have to keep going creating great stuff. And this is
• 53:27
  now much more open world. And then maybe next time we can talk a
• 53:30
  bit more about how I how I see how what the what In my opinion,
• 53:35
  the right way forward is the right vision forward is where this industry can
• 53:37
  be in five years. But that's maybe too much for now. I could
• 53:42
  talk about legs time. I know I'm actually now I'm tempted to, you
• 53:45
  know, keep talking to you, just you know what I mean. I
• 53:47
  know you got to I know you got to run, but I'm just tempted
• 53:50
  to give you to keep your hanging on, just to just to sort of
• 53:52
  finish that thought. I mean, you know that's why you know, I'm
• 53:55
  getting back into the swing of things too. You know, I got just
• 54:00
  earned out from doing things. And now for for listeners who who who you
• 54:02
  know listened to the past couple of episodes, Klaus, they know I'm actually
• 54:06
  gonna start making I want to make a faux trailer again, just a fun
• 54:09
  fake trailer and throw it up on YouTube. I've been doing a lot more
• 54:13
  stuff just with with back getting into the saddle with this creative stuff I've always
• 54:16
  been writing. And you know, it's just it's just you know, getting
• 54:21
  back into it because I realize, you know, I I I just talking
• 54:23
  with everybody, even you know, every guest. You know, I always
• 54:25
  hear different things, and it's just important to get keep going and keep trying
• 54:29
  and getting hit back out there, because I mean, I flat out would
• 54:32
  be very honest with everybody. I got so burned out, Klaus, from
• 54:35
  just the amount of bull crap, just from like you know, projects that
• 54:38
  everyone anywhere to. You shoot a project and then somebody holds it hostage on
• 54:44
  a hard drive, which I've seen. You know. That only happened to
• 54:46
  me once, thankfully, but other people that's happened to them like two or
• 54:50
  three times, you know, just crazy editors. Because I'm just saying that
• 54:52
  because they're singing in the dark the whole time, you know, and they
• 54:54
  got a sna But but you know, again, I know you have to
• 54:59
  go, Klaus, and you know, so again I want to say thank
• 55:00
  you for coming on and where can people find you out online? So we're
• 55:06
  at film hoop dot com and my own personal website is at Klausbuddel dot com.
• 55:09
  Well, Klausbottle dot com, so you can you can find me there
• 55:14
  and and go from there and and reach out on Twitter. We're a film
• 55:16
  hop h Q. I wanted to that personally too, and then yeah,
• 55:22
  get in touch and and let's I think, let's keep creating that revolutionaryally like
• 55:25
  that. And I love that you you know, going back getting back into
• 55:29
  it too. We we have to keep creating it. That's that's the idea.
• 55:31
  Yeah, you got to have one foot in theory and one foot in
• 55:35
  practice. It's dangerous when you you know what I mean so exactly, So
• 55:39
  thank you, thank you, Klaus. I just it's off the top of
• 55:42
  my head, buddy, it's top my So everyone, it's Dave Bulls dot
• 55:46
  com. Twitter, it's at dB podcast. Uh, Klaus, I want
• 55:51
  to say, il vita san and don there. Thank you see that that
• 55:54
  rudimentary German helped out that. That'll hell worldwide. No, thank you for
• 56:01
  having me a lot of fun. Keep following your podcast, and I hope
• 56:06
  it was a little bit insightful for someone. I want to thank Dave so
• 56:10
  much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 56:14
  get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the
• 56:15
  show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash three forty nine. Thank
• 56:21
  you so much for listening, guys, As always, keep on writing no
• 56:24
  matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof
• 56:28
  Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.