Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #227 Who Bears the Burden?

Transcript

#227 Who Bears the Burden? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now as a mom, often I actually don't need your
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: physical presence to do things, but I do need a
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  Speaker 2: sounding board.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 2: Good.
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  Speaker 3: This is doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy Families
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  Speaker 3: dot com dot au and author of six books about
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  Speaker 3: how to raise our happy family. Here with my wife
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  Speaker 3: and co host Kylie and missus Happy Families. I'm feeling
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  Speaker 3: very manly today. I've gone and well, I was going
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: to say, I've rescued a dead fish, but you currently
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: rescue a dead fish? Can you? We have a little fish?
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  Speaker 2: Did you rescue it with? I might ask, Well, you
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  Speaker 2: had to bring it to me.
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  Speaker 3: So we've got a little fish pond outside our house,
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  Speaker 3: and we don't do a very good job of keeping
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  Speaker 3: our fish alive. I don't know why, because we feed
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: them and there's lots of other you know, just the
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  Speaker 3: dirty mossy stuff that's in there. And I noticed that
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  Speaker 3: there was a fish floating, and so I tried to
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  Speaker 3: get it out and I couldn't get it. So I
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  Speaker 3: called out to you, and you brought out a what
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  Speaker 3: do you call that thing? Like a strainer, like a
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  Speaker 3: colander kind of thing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you got my kitchen strainer.
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  Speaker 3: And I got it out and I buried the fish.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm feeling very manly for my hair.
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  Speaker 2: Buried the fish. Was there a shovel included in this burial?
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Because I don't believe the flick over the shoulder is
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  Speaker 2: considered a burial.
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  Speaker 3: Making me sound really bad, I threw it in the garden.
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  Speaker 3: It'll get buried in the garden.
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  Speaker 2: I'm glad that our kids aren't that attached to these fish.
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  Speaker 2: Holy smokes.
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  Speaker 3: Well, anyway, that's just another day in the life of the.
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  Speaker 2: Causons sharing the cognitive b looa right there.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, well that's what we're talking about today. But
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: before we get to it, we got another five star
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: review come through. In fact, they've been coming through fairly frequently.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much. TBK. Wills, who said five stars.
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  Speaker 3: I'm playing catch up from February of all your podcasts,
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: really feel that I cannot miss one of them. There's
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: too much good stuff in every episode. We love those
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: five star ratings and reviews so that other people can
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: find out about the podcast. Wherever you listen, please leave
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: a rating and review so that we can make other
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: families happy. So now we've got to try to help
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: everybody to be happy with a request that's come through
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  Speaker 3: podcasts at happy families dot com, dot you is how
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: you contact us? What's the question? Hunt?
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: The question was specifically to me and asking how do
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  Speaker 2: I share the mental load as a mum with you?
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  Speaker 3: So there's an assumption that question that you're carrying the
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  Speaker 3: cognitive load of our family? Is that what I believe?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: So I believe.
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  Speaker 3: So do you think that you are?
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  Speaker 2: I do think that I carry a very large percentage
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  Speaker 2: of the cognitive load.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, so I think we should test this. But what
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  Speaker 3: I think is fascinating is that when researchers do studies
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  Speaker 3: on this topic and they look at the way that
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  Speaker 3: the way just the household division of labor. So this
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  Speaker 3: is not so much cognitive load as it is who's
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  Speaker 3: doing what in the home. What the data seems to
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  Speaker 3: be showing is that when men are asked what percentage
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  Speaker 3: of the housework they do, for example, they might say
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  Speaker 3: I do forty, and then their partners. This is always
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: in a heterosexual relationship, the partners will be asked how
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  Speaker 3: much do you do, and they'll say ninety five percent,
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  Speaker 3: And you'll notice that forty plus ninety five is more
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  Speaker 3: than one hundred percent. I'm not going to do the maths.
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  Speaker 3: And what the researches have found for decades now is
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  Speaker 3: that somebody is exaggerating the extent to which they're participating
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  Speaker 3: in household labor and helping out around home and family,
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  Speaker 3: and that there are some people who are suggesting that
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  Speaker 3: it may be the men.
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  Speaker 1: Well.
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  Speaker 2: I actually read an article that's been written by a
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  Speaker 2: Harvard PhD student in relation to this idea of the
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  Speaker 2: cognitive load, and she actually talked about the fact that
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  Speaker 2: there are three different areas where we carry this load.
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  Speaker 2: First of all, as mums and parents in general, we've
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  Speaker 2: got the emotional work we're dealing with, you know, kind
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  Speaker 2: of helping our children with these big emotions that come through. Yep.
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  Speaker 2: We're also doing the admin work, and I would suggest
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  Speaker 2: that that's pretty much where most of our energy is spent.
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  Speaker 3: So that's library day and sports day and swimming lessons
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  Speaker 3: and yeah, the running of the house is birthdays when
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  Speaker 3: and organizing parties or taking kids places that sort of thing.
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  Speaker 2: That's right and then there's project work, so on top
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  Speaker 2: of all of the daily admin stuff that you need
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  Speaker 2: to just get through each day. Then we've got birthday
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  Speaker 2: parties that we've got a plan and we've got to
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  Speaker 2: organized birthday presence for our extended family, or running the
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  Speaker 2: Christmas family dinner party or whatever.
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  Speaker 3: Making sure secret standards are out by late October, all
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  Speaker 3: that kind of stuff.
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  Speaker 2: So there's a huge amount of energy that's required, mental
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  Speaker 2: energy to just get through a single day as a family.
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  Speaker 3: So I'll confess. So there's a couple of things to
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  Speaker 3: highlight here for those of you who are new to
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  Speaker 3: the podcast or don't know Kylie and I, well, I
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: guess you say, we're pretty traditional in the way we
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  Speaker 3: have our families set up. I'm the primary bread winner.
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  Speaker 3: You look after the house and kids, And I'm listening
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  Speaker 3: to what you're saying, and I'm like, okay, well, I reckon.
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  Speaker 3: Most dads that I know certainly carry a fair bit
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  Speaker 3: of that emotional load, the cognitive load. If the kids
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  Speaker 3: are upset, sometimes mum's frazzled and they say, go talk
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  Speaker 3: to your father, and dad sorts it out. You're looking
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  Speaker 3: at me like as if no, no, seriously, okay. And
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  Speaker 3: when it comes to the admin, I would say that
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  Speaker 3: in a traditional setup, and even maybe in a less
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: traditional setup, it's still going to be the mum who's
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  Speaker 3: going to take care of most of that admin stuff.
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  Speaker 3: I'm not quite sure how I would do if you
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  Speaker 3: were to.
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  Speaker 2: I've got a few questions for you.
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  Speaker 3: Put you to the test, all right, we'll check that
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  Speaker 3: out in a sec. And when it comes to the
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  Speaker 3: project work, I reckon, dads are not there, but dad's
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: are building stuff in their shed. I'm being again very stereotypical.
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  Speaker 3: Or they're mowing the lawn and they're doing all the
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  Speaker 3: outside work, all the big projects, and there's just a
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  Speaker 3: lot to do in a family, and you have to
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  Speaker 3: split it somehow. I guess the question that you've been
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  Speaker 3: asked via this podcast listener is how do we do it?
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  Speaker 3: Or how can it be done? Did you say you're
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  Speaker 3: going to test me? Yeah, let's find out how I go.
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  Speaker 3: I reckon, I'm going to go great. I'm confident. I
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  Speaker 3: think that I carry a lot of the cognitive load
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  Speaker 3: in this family, at least at least eighty percent.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, here we go, maybe not. What days do the
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  Speaker 2: kids do swimming?
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  Speaker 3: Lessons that depends. We've got definitely I was going to
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  Speaker 3: say Friday, but it's not Friday anymore. It's just changed.
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  Speaker 3: We've changed swimming lesson days so many times. This is
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  Speaker 3: not fair, The whole term not fair. Okay, I've got
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  Speaker 3: to answer it. They do it on it's music lessons
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  Speaker 3: on Tuesday, so somebody's got a somebody's got a swimming
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  Speaker 3: lesson on a Wednesday, and then there's definitely sorry on Monday,
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  Speaker 3: and then there's a Wednesday. There's definitely two on Wednesday,
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  Speaker 3: and then there's two on Friday as well.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you might have got the days right, but I'm
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  Speaker 2: a little bit nervous about who's going to show up
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  Speaker 2: to swimming lessons by Hey.
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  Speaker 3: Can I just say you sent me to swimming lessons
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  Speaker 3: with children a couple of weeks ago, and I was
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  Speaker 3: there on time. In fact, I was there two hours early.
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  Speaker 3: That's how one time I was because you've got a
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  Speaker 3: time wrong. So I just I'm just putting it out
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  Speaker 3: there that I'm doing.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, what great is maybe number five and she's in
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  Speaker 2: grade six and what's her teacher's name?
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  Speaker 3: I have no idea.
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  Speaker 2: How are we celebrating miss six's birthday this year.
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  Speaker 3: Next question, who cleans the toilet? That's a shared responsibility.
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  Speaker 3: I definitely do it sometimes, and we have other children
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  Speaker 3: who also have a responsibility to do it, And I'm
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  Speaker 3: going to guess that you do it more than anyone.
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  Speaker 2: Where are the cleaning products kept?
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  Speaker 3: We keep some cleaning products in various bathrooms. We also
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  Speaker 3: have some under the kitchen sink, and we have some
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: in the laundry.
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  Speaker 2: How often do the bed sheets get change weekly? Oh, look,
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  Speaker 2: you're making up for it. Now, what day do the
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  Speaker 2: bins go out to dr.
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  Speaker 3: I know this because anybody who's listening to the podcast
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  Speaker 3: over of the last month knows that I've chased the
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  Speaker 3: bin truck down the street Thursday more twice this month,
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  Speaker 3: running down the street with the bins behind me.
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  Speaker 2: What's for dinner tonight?
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  Speaker 3: Tonight? Thursday night? It's throwbacks Thursday, and we have a
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  Speaker 3: we have a meal roster, and I'm sure that if
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  Speaker 3: I was to look at the roster, I'd find out
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  Speaker 3: what you'll be cooking for us tonight.
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  Speaker 2: So I guess you also know whether or not we
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  Speaker 2: have the ingredients for dinner tonight.
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  Speaker 3: No, because I'm in the office and I'm working, but
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  Speaker 3: have you made your point.
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  Speaker 2: I've made my point. I think I've done a very
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  Speaker 2: good job.
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  Speaker 3: But it works because we're in a partnership, right, We've
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  Speaker 3: got a happy family. Everything's okay.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, we're all good.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, We're all good.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Honey.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: What was the name of the person who asked this question?
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  Speaker 2: Deban asked this question?
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  Speaker 3: Deban, I'm never talking to you again, but.
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  Speaker 2: We have numerous people that have responded as a result
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  Speaker 2: of her question who all want to know the same thing.
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  Speaker 3: All right, So what we're going to do is going
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  Speaker 3: to take a quick break and when we come back,
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  Speaker 3: let's talk about how we can manage the load and
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  Speaker 3: how we can share it.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Famili's.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: Cook Are Screens Creating Tension at Home, Tweens, teens and
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: Screens is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: superscreen solutions. Bye today at Happy families dot com, dot
• 9:11
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• 9:14
  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for a time
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now and today. We
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: are having lots.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: Of fun with because you're having fun making me look bad.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: With this idea of how to share the cognitive load.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Should I ask you some questions about how I run
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: my office, how I look after the staff, what it
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: costs to run the business.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: I did have a question that I thought you might
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: enjoy answering.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Did I cut you off before the end of all
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: the questions? No, what was it?
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I was just going to ask if there's enough fuel
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: in the car?
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, So when was the last time you actually looked?
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know, seriously, the anomther of times that I
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: get in the car and look at the fuel gauge
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: and it's flashing, I'm like, how many cas have you
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: done on flash? And I don't know, I've just been driving.
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  Speaker 3: Just is the only one that fills up the car
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  Speaker 3: carrying the I'm carrying the cognitive load of the fuel.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: How do we how do we manage the load? The
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: question that you were specifically asked by Deban, who I'm
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: still not talking to.
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  Speaker 2: Was how do we share it? How does it work
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: for us?
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, so what would you what would you say? Is
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: something that we do that really works well?
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: So I've got a couple of things. You had your
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: webinar on Monday night talking about parenting on the same page,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: and I think that that is paramount to us being
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: able to share the cognitive lolobe.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, whether there's conflict or not. Just parenting requires us
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  Speaker 3: and running a family requires us to be aligned and
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: to be unified and what's the word to correlate and
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  Speaker 3: coordinate things?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and as a mum often I actually don't need
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: your physical presence to do things, but I do need
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: a sounding board. I do need someone who's invested in
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  Speaker 2: what's going on in my world or our families world
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  Speaker 2: to be able to kind of talk through the process.
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  Speaker 2: You know, if I'm trying to kind of navigate a
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Thursday afternoon and I've got four different things that I'm
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: supposed to be doing, sometimes it's just great to have
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: an extra person in the mix to go. You know what,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: if you do X, Y and Z, it'll actually kind
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: of streamline things a lot better.
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  Speaker 3: But yet I can see how busy you're going to be.
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  Speaker 3: What about if I try to be flexible on that
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: afternoon so that the pressure is off you, which.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Is great for people who have that flexibility and not
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: so great for others. Not everybody can you, but yes, definitely,
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  Speaker 2: And I think understanding and recognizing that each one of
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: you carries your own load. Yeah, and it can be
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: weighty and heavy for totally different reasons.
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  Speaker 3: I'm just laughing because I'm thinking, we really do. I
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: struggle to answer some of those questions, but that's because
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: I'm carrying my own load. In our case, it's not
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: that the man isn't carrying any load at all and
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: mum's doing it all. I've got my own load and
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: stuff to deal with. And that's why we divide the
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: labor up, because we just can't carry it all. How
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: parents do it as a single pace parents? Honestly, I
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: think that it must be the hardest job in the
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: world to carry the emotional load, the administrative load, the
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  Speaker 3: project load. It's just extraordinary. But in our cup of relationship.
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  Speaker 3: The other thing that really strikes me is every Sunday
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: you and I have a meeting. We send the kids
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: off to their rooms. They can read, they can draw,
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: they can color, and they can do whatever it is
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: they want to do, and we have about probably an
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: hour long coordination meeting and we answer three questions. Number one,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: let's have a look at the week just gone, what
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: went well? Number two what didn't go so well? And
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: number three, what do you want to focus on this week,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: and just doing that helps us to get alignment, and
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: it means that we're carrying the load together because we're
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: looking at how things are working out, what needs to
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: be improved, and what we can do together to fix that.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think as we go through that process,
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  Speaker 2: there's a recognition that, Okay, this is an area that
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I can step up in, or this is an area
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: where I can step in, and it just makes such
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: a difference. And so from there being able to kind
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: of go through the week and actually calendar each thing.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: So even though you may not physically be a part
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: of my week, you're aware of what I'm trying to
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: juggle and what I'm trying to do. And we go
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: through your week, so even though I'm not in the office,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I'm aware of what your time restraints are and so
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I have a realistic expectation of what you're capable of
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: jumping in and helping me with and what you're not.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: And through that process, there's an ability for us to
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: take one another's perspectives and recognize that we're each carrying
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: these loads and what we need to do to be
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: compassionate and helpful with each other.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So the central thing that I think works best
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: in this process is that as we go through that calendar,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: as we talk about what's going well, as we talk
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: about what's not, and then we focus on what we're
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: going to do better next week. There's a question that
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: we really try to enunciate as often as possible, and
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: that is, Okay, it looks busy for you on Thursday,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: how can I have help? It looks like Saturday is
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: going to be really tough. How can I help? And
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: when we ask that question of one another, when I
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: say to you, how can I help, you're still carrying
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: the load because that's in your domain in terms of
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: the way we've divided labor, that's in your domain. But
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: when I say how can I help, I'm reducing the load.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like the person in the gym. They're
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: doing the bench press, they're carrying the load, but the
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: person who spots them, when they can see that it's
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: hard for them, they say, would you like some help?
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: And they put a couple of fingers on that bar
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: under the bar and they just lift gently and they're
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: taking a little bit of the load, which makes it
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: doable for the person who's trying to do the bench press,
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: and I think that's what we really want to do
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: in our families. Now, there was somebody who asked another question.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: She said, I'm totally on board with this conversation. I
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: need to be part of it about what happens when
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: dad comes home and he's happy to help out with dinner, bath, bed,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: with the children, but not willing to carry any of
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: the decision making load, not willing to carry any of
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: the administrative or project based load, not really even that
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: involved with the emotion load. What's the advice there?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I think this all comes down to perspective taking. If
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: your husband has an intense workload, where you know he's
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: got his own cognitive load, then you can understand why
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: when he comes home he just wants to chill out.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that he actually gets permission.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: I've got a heavy load at work. I do anything.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: It's not how it works.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: But I think that as partners, if we can recognize
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: that and actually empathize and sometimes sympathize with them in
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: relation to how they're feeling, that we actually have a
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: better chance of getting them on the same page.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you can have your Sunday meeting and
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: say what went well, you were really helpful. What didn't
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I need you to help me with some of the
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: decisions or some of the admin load, or some of
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: this or that, and then what can we do this week?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Which is why Sundays actually works beautifully because for most
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: of us we're not pressures off having you know, so
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: much pressure around what we're doing, and so it's a
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: day where we kind of we can just chill a
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: little as we make these decisions.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Well, there's been a great conversation. I hope, deband that
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: that has been helpful for you. Thanks so much for
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: being in touch. Podcasts at happy families dot com dot you.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: That's podcasts with an s Podcasts at happy families dot
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: com dot you. If you've got any questions for us
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: to bounce around and try to be helpful with. We
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: really hope that you've enjoyed what we've had to share,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: and if you have, we always ask for those ratings
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: and reviews to help other people to find out about
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: the podcast. Justin Rulan from Bridge Media is our producer
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: and Craig Bruce is the executive producer of the Happy
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Families podcast. If you'd like more information about how to
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: make your family happier. You can get it all at
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: happy families dot com dot au.